Latest / Divine Skintervention / An Intimate Peek at an Indie Skincare Brand w/ Jordan Samuel Pacitti

Transcript

An Intimate Peek at an Indie Skincare Brand w/ Jordan Samuel Pacitti · Divine Skintervention

• 0:04
  SPEAKER_03: Hi Ramone.
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_03: Hi, Angelo.
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_03: How are we doing today?
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_00: We're good.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_00: We're good.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_00: You know what's so funny is I got a weird throwback to like my high school era recently.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_00: I ran into someone that I knew.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_00: Actually, I was in middle school.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so I like we had a moment of like, wait, we went to the same school.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_00: And that reminded me of, you know, I went to art school, right?
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_03: I found this out earlier, yes.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and that person was like, How did you go from that to here?
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, you know what?
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_00: That's really funny because back then I was a musician.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_00: So I went to school.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_00: I'm a classically and jazz trained saxophone and bass player, like electric and upright bass.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's funny, it's like, how do you make the segue from like music to art?
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_00: And I know you have a childhood of interesting talents, no?
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_03: You know what?
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_03: The funny thing is, I don't.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I was like never in lessons for anything.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_03: I never really played sports like that.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_03: Like, I don't know why my parents did not push me for those things.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_03: And I have some regrets about it.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_03: But, you know, as I got older, like um in high school, I was very involved in extracurriculars.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_03: Like, I played volleyball, I um was a theater kid, like a lot of those things.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_03: But funny enough, my mother had the nerve.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_03: This was years ago, I think when I was an undergrad or like med school, she was talking about um one of her friend's kids was applying to college, and she thought she was gonna get, oh, she she must get into everywhere that she applies.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_03: And I was like, Well, I didn't get into everywhere that I applied to college.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_03: Like, that's just, you know, a normal thing.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_03: And she said, Well, you know, you're just like smart.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_03: She's actually talented.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_03: And I was like, And where's she at now?
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_00: And where's she at now?
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_00: What is she doing now?
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_00: She actually works for the UN as an ambassador.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_03: Um, she's a lawyer, but but is she happy?
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_03: No, no, not not to say that like she wasn't smart, talented, whatever, but it just goes to show you it's your own family sometimes.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_03: And then I came back at her like, okay, well, whose fault is that?
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_00: That's so nasty.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_03: I know.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_03: And me and my mother have this like close relationship where I'm like, I could tell her that was hurtful.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_03: Don't say that.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_03: And she was receptive.
• 2:37
  unknown: I love that for you.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_03: She did have a little bit of a moment of like, well, I didn't mean.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_00: Well, in the sense that do you know what I'm talking about?
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_00: You know what?
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_00: You said what you said, and you said it.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_03: Teresa.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_00: Teresa.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_00: No, I was a very talented child.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_00: But to the point where I'm like, I didn't care enough either.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_00: I was just like, wow, if I actually applied myself, I'd be the guy.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_00: So if you're in jazz, you have the fuller jazz band, and then you have the combos.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_00: The combos are quartets, trios, like smaller.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_00: You usually have a saxophone, a trumpet, a percussionist, and a bassist.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_00: That's like the smaller.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I was in a uh combo, and the trumpet player actually ended up going to Juilliard full ride.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_00: He's toured with like Kelly Clarkson, Selena, like all these big artists.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, if I actually tried, I could have done that.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_00: But not in skincare.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, but now you're here talking to me.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_03: So And you know what?
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_00: I still win in the end.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_03: Do you?
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_00: I do.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_00: No, but it's funny, just like people are like, how the fuck, how on earth did you go from art school to like what you do now?
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_00: And the funny thing is, being a performer and being on stage, I have no stage fright.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_00: And I love public speaking, and being in front of a camera is so easy for me.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_00: So like there's a really weird direct um what's the word?
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_00: Direct transfer of those skills to what we do now.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_00: And even then, I was always good at chemistry.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_00: I loved chemistry, I loved math.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_00: So that was an easy segue.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_00: But I will say the transferable skills are priceless.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I mean, I think for me, theater kid, former theater kid.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_03: Well, like in the communication space, like I my mother will never let me forget when I was three years old, we had like a family reunion or something, and I like got up on a table and started doing stand-up and like telling knock-knock jokes and whatever.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_04: Are they good?
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_03: Apparently, the crowd of all my extended family thought it was hilarious that a three-year-old was doing this, but so now I mean I think it makes sense how I ended up doing the thing that I do in the way that I do it.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_03: Um yeah, but you know, academic aptitude became me focusing on, you know, science, medicine, and then here I am.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_03: I also made it to the same spot talking to you.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_00: Two hot girls, two hot girls in STEM.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_00: Were you a very competitive child?
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_03: Yes and no.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_03: Like, I mean, there was no competition, so I'm one of one nice at the bar.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_00: Mm-hmm.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_00: I was a very competitive child, like aggressively competitive.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, really?
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_00: I was very mean-spirited.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_03: I think everything that I've learned about your life, like before I knew you, has been that like you were kind of bitchy.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_00: I I grew up, first of all, I grew up like this.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_00: And the one thing that I really like I commend myself for is I'm like, well, I was very always unapologetically myself.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_00: And I feel like a lot of people try to dampen that down.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_00: And my biggest motivator in life has been and will always be spite.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_00: And so, like, I've succeeded in life and gotten to where I am right now across from the Durham Angelo.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um, just being myself against all odds.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_00: And I wonder where that came from.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_00: But part of it is like I am very competitive, I always had to be the best.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_00: And to this day, my dad, who's my biggest fan, anytime something really cool happens in my life, he's always like, remember, you're where you're at because you're one of the best.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_00: That's a real man right there.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I'm I'm named after him, so I'm carrying on his legacy.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_03: Little remote.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_03: Wait, you're named after your dad?
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and he's named after his dad.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_00: I'm third generation, girl.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_03: I'm named after my dad.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_00: We're actually sisters.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_03: We're actually sisters.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_03: Well, no, I mean, uh my dad, that's like my Italian American side, and they're like the tradition is like you name the kids after their grandparents, but my dad was like My name's better.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_03: I'm so great that you know, I respect that.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_00: What's his sign?
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_03: He is um an Aries, I think.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_03: What's February?
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_03: What's February?
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_00: No, February, it depends on.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_03: Aquarius, I guess.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_00: But a man Aquarius is different than a girl Aquarius.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_03: I uh like you're a man Pisces.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_00: I know nothing about about astrology, so there's and that's something I mean, even I'm like not that deep into it, but one thing I will say is I am a Leo and I embody every aspect of that down.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, okay, but what if that's just coincidence?
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_00: But is it a coincidence or was it celestially celestially, divinitively, destined?
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_03: Divinitively.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_03: Divinely, you mean?
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_00: Once what part of it?
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_00: I went to public school in Florida.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_03: It's the name of the fucking podcast.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_03: Definitively.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_00: I was divinely destined.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_03: On that note, we have a really great heavenly thotty today who had a different life before skincare.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_03: He was a professional dancer.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_03: Can you dance?
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_00: I could dance on a floor, I could dance on a pole, I could dance wherever.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_00: You tell me where, I'm gonna dance.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_00: I love dancing.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_03: On a pole?
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_03: I wanted to try a pole dancing class once.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I would say next Divine Skin Intervention episode.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_03: What y'all don't know is down the hall from here, there's actually a pole dancing studio.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_03: So we don't have to go far.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_03: The equipment's already here.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_00: I would love to do that.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_00: Plus, like the upper body strength required for that, and the lower body strength required for that.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I mean, you gotta be able to do that.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_00: I love the people that can do like the flagpole.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, that's crazy.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_00: Or the ones that do like the walk up.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_00: That's crazy.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm so competitive, I will figure out how to do that.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_00: Angelo and I went to do aerial yoga once, and someone's like, Have you done this before?
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, No, but I'm gonna be the best one at it.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_03: Well, yeah, no, it was it was a little bit And was I not?
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_03: Was I not?
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_03: He had to be, you know, it was the little bit of best little boy in the world syndrome.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_03: He had to be like the star student.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, it didn't matter.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_00: Did I have to be, or was I just the star?
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_03: You had to be.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_00: You know what?
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_00: She was even like, wow, you're really good at it.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_03: She was it Ramon was trying, he was he was trying real hard to be the best.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_03: So I'm like, I I get where that where that comes from.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_03: Um a lot of fun though.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_00: Highly recommended.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, we had fun.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_03: We had fun.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I think the best part of the class was the teacher showing us how to flip over and not fall.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_03: And she was like, Oh, if you're a showgirl, like if your legs are wide open, you're never gonna fall.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm like, showgirls never fall.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_00: We should get matching tattoos that say that.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_03: Actually, yeah, if we got matching tattoos, what would they be?
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_03: That would be would it be like you as a cherub on my body and me as a cherub on your body?
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_03: Or like, would it be like little cherub wings?
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_00: Cherub wings, like just little tiny ones at the center of our backs, like little tiny ones.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_03: Just like little.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_03: Ooh.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, we'll think about that.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_03: There's also a there's a tattoo parlor down the hall, too.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_03: So this is like a one-stop shop.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_03: Whenever we're ready.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_03: So we are here with a new heavenly thotty.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_03: Welcome to your ears and your screens, Jordan Samuel Pachiti, the founder of Jordan Samuel Skin.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you for having me.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_00: Of course, it's been a long time coming.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_01: Uh yeah, I'm yes, I'm very excited to be here.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_00: Especially as a fellow New York girly.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_00: You so people who don't know this, well, I feel like I've talked about this a lot.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_00: I, before I made content, I used to love to watch other content creators.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_00: And Jordan was one that I used to watch for a very long time.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_00: You used to do these videos.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_00: Well, it was just to you, and especially like your little Tuesday talks.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_00: But you and Caroline Hierons would do a lot of content together when she'd come to the States.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_00: You guys are long time very good skincare friends.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_00: And then I've asked you about this as well.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_00: There was a third girl, her name was Stephanie, right?
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, Stephanie Nicole, yeah.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_00: You guys were like the three, like the trifecta to me, beyond just like the standard like beauty content creators.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_00: So you've been doing this for how many years now then?
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_01: 172.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_00: Approximately.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_01: But a while.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, the brand is now 13 years old, and I was doing content before then.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_01: So, I mean, 15 years probably at this point.
• 11:19
  unknown: Wow.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_00: I'm barely 15 years old.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_00: And then before you did that, some other fun fact is like Jordan and I also overlapped in Seattle, though we never met at that point in our lives.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm like a fellow Seattle hometown girly.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_01: I know.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, skincare esthetician, Seattle, New York, we've a we've a I'm actually Jordan in the past.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_00: But in the future.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_01: And younger with hair.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_00: Much younger.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_00: Speaking of hair, what happened to your hair journey?
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_00: You're growing your hair out.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_01: We'll get do we want to get into that?
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, we'll get into it.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_01: It's not long.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_01: I was doing PRP, which worked.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_01: And then I was doing propecia topically and monoxidal internally.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_01: And it did absolutely work.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_01: However, it wasn't enough of what I wanted.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_01: Like they, so it was more than it is now, obviously, but it was still where it was thin.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_01: It was still, you know, it's it's baby hairs.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_01: And I was patient and did it for years.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_01: But then I didn't have, I didn't feel like I had the budget to fully keep up with continuing with the PR.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_01: The monoxidone on the propeta was fine, but the money to keep up with the PRP.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_01: And then I was thinking, like, honestly, I would go just do go to Turkey and get a hair transplant.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_01: Like, truly.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I've seen amazing results on friends and on other people.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_01: So that's why I also like my hair shaved too.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_01: So right now we're just putting it on pause.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_03: You know, there's something about a shaved head that, you know, when you could pull it off, it's chef's kiss.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_01: I hope I'm pulling it off.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_03: The the slow nod from a remote.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_00: So that being said, no Jordan Samuel hair anytime soon then?
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_01: No, there's there's no Jordan Samuel hair.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, I feel like you could make a good hair product, but I definitely know in the comments they'd be like, where's your hair?
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_03: Because when just to say, whenever I talk about there's a lot of hair care creators that it's like they have hair down to their ass, and they do all this dumb shit on camera, and everybody in the comments is like, oh my God, like this must be amazing.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_03: And then when I critique it from a scientific standpoint, they're like, Well, you don't have hair down to your ass.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, that's the I kind of I will say though, I not that I would judge this, but I do find it funny when I see a hairstylist or a hair care company founder who has shaved head.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_01: Again, it doesn't matter.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_01: They've had hair at some point in their life.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_01: I under like it's just a very weird uh situation to me that I have this sort of uh judgment without even knowing anything about it.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_00: No, the stereotype is the best barbers and best hairdressers are the bald ones.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_01: Interesting.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_00: That's like the golden rule.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_01: That's the thing is I don't like when I actively think about it, it's like a what do they say in jury duty?
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_01: Like you're you know, you're not supposed to have like a subconscious bias or something.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't pass AP Gov on that note.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_00: You think I did implicit bias.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, okay.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_01: But I feel like that's what happens when I see this, and then I'm like, no, like critical thinking here, Jordan.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_01: Like, let's, yep, let's let's use the brain.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_01: And then I'm like, oh, right, it doesn't, it has nothing to do with anything.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_01: But I I think that and then separately, I wouldn't necessarily think if somebody had hair down to their ass.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_01: Uh like if that would sell me on something.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think it would.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_03: Well, yeah.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, especially uh the content creators that I'm talking about.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_03: It's not like they're typically like hairstylists or doctors or anything, which just a girl with hair down to her ass, and that's the credentials.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_00: Promoting the Dr.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_00: Groot fucking hair growth serum.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_00: I'm so tired of it.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_00: I'm so tired.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_00: What is Dr.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_00: Groot?
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_00: So Dr.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_00: Groot is a Korean hair care brand.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_00: Dr.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_00: Groot.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_00: They're at Sephora.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_00: They have decent products.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_00: I don't, I don't know what conglomerate owns them, and I don't know if they're a sister brand to another bigger brand, but they're at Sephora.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_00: They had a big US push.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_00: Their products are fine, they just smell disgusting to me.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_00: But they have a very, very viral hair growth serum that's like all over TikTok, TikTok shop.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_00: Bretman Rock.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_00: He was big for promoting it.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_00: Like all the big creators have been promoting it, and they're like, it works so good.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_00: But does it?
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_00: No, there's to test it out on you.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, exactly.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_01: There's no way, right?
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_01: There's no way.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um, a lot of these are based around peptide technologies.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_03: I can't verify that's the situation for that one, but there's not enough research into those technologies to really hang your hat on.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_03: I think one of the issues that I've seen is now it's like, oh, the skinification of hair, and all of these brands want to talk about hair loss.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_03: They can't, though, because that's a medical condition.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_03: And what I've said in the past is, you know, you go to a retailer and some of these hair growth serums are$80,$90 versus like monoxidal is dirt cheap, and you know that works.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_03: So why would you spend all this money on something that may not work when you have something with like clinical trial data and decades of like exactly know-how and all that.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_01: So that's just my take.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_01: The monoxidal thing was crazy, taking it internally.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't realize hair would go like my mom text.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_00: I always shut out my mom at least once episode.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_00: She was like, Bobby, I'm getting a mustache.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_01: No, it was, I should have known, right?
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_01: Like, duh.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_01: But even my beard, like I had to trim the hair on my beard like much more frequently.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_01: It was thicker, it was darker.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_03: I'm on an oral monoxidal, and I was like, Oh, like maybe I'll grow more of a beard or something.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_03: I just got nose hair.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_01: That's the other thing.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_03: I can't be like low hair at the back of my hands.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_03: I'm like, why not?
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_03: Like, I've never had chest hair in my life.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_03: People are always like, Why do you shave your chest?
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_03: I don't.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_03: This is just the way it is.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_03: But like, I'm like, I would take in a little bit of that in my nose, ears.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_00: But point weekendallion, that is actually fascinating.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_03: No, same.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_01: Did you see my jaw was on the ground?
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_03: No, I come baby smooth.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_03: I come from a long line of like hairless people.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_03: Like, all of the women in my family, like, just don't grow hair on their legs.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_03: So they don't shave.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_03: It's just like nothing.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_03: Um, yeah, like uh bad alopecia runs in my family too.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_03: But like that's a separate issue.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_03: But yeah.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_00: Knock on the lid for that.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_01: Why is Minoxidal like Murphy's Law though?
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_03: Like, yeah, you're gonna get it on your head, but like your mom gets a mustache, you have nose hair, and like the like I feel like it's so it's it's because it's a systemic agent, and I mean it works through uh, you know, several mechanisms, but you know, when you're applying it topically, you do get a little bit of spread, and some people get like peach fuzz on the top of their forehead or something.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_03: Interesting.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_03: But the idea is in androgenic alopecia, so male or female pattern hair loss, what's happening is not that you're losing the hairs, they're just becoming miniaturized.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_03: So they're becoming vellus hairs, which are like those downy hairs that we have other places on our body.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_03: One of the things that it does is thickens that hair shaft so that it becomes a terminal hair again.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_03: Terminal hair is like the dark hair, like beard, eyebrows, top of your head.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_03: So it's like we're covered in velus hair all over our body.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_03: And if you're taking it systemically, all of that hair can respond to it.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_03: It just wakes up.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, okay.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_03: Interesting.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_03: So hence me with my old man nose and ear hair.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_00: I'm 15.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_03: So cheers to that.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_03: Cheers to that.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, we're having a little bevrage.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_00: In honor of Jordan Samuel and his little Tuesday Twak series.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_00: We didn't do a martini because it's too early in the day, but orange wine, it is.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_01: Though this looks like we're drinking like Tang.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_01: Do you know what that is?
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_01: Are you old enough to know what Tang is?
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_00: Group in the hood.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_00: I know what I know what Tang is.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_03: Um can I just say, so when I first started out on social media, um, that was kind of my first introduction to a lot of the indie brands that were out there.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_03: Because Tang.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_03: Not Tang.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_03: I'm talking about Jordan Samuels.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_03: I was like, what are we talking about here?
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_03: The indie brands Tang.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_03: I'm like, yeah.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_03: Um and back then, Instagram, like skincare Instagram was just people taking photos of like packaging.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_03: Yep.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_03: That like that's all it was.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_03: Nobody was talking about the product, but one of the things I remember was like people just loved your brand.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_03: Like it was ever-present.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_03: And like, I mean, I definitely knew about the brand before I knew who you were.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_03: No offense to you.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_03: No, no, no.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_03: That's um, I love hearing that actually.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_03: And people were like loving the product.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_03: So, I mean, obviously, there's staying power, but like, did you seek out to be a social first brand really early?
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_03: Was that like an intention?
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_01: No, not at all.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_01: It's actually a quite interesting process because everything did happen organically, but not in the way that I had necessarily set out for it to happen.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_01: So I retired from my ballet career in 2010.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_01: I immediately went to aesthetic school because I know I knew I wanted to work in skincare.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_01: I also knew that it might be fun one day to have a product line, but that day did not seem like it was going to be in 2013.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_01: It seemed like it might be in 2020.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_01: And so got my aesthetics license, started working in a spa in Seattle, quickly learned that in a full uh Molina Day spa, which I loved.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, but I wanted to just do skin.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_01: And it was like my day was a leg wax, an eyebrow wax, a facial, a body scrub.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_01: All lovely, but it wasn't like I wasn't really getting into what I wanted to get into.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_01: So I started trading, which was stupid financially, because where you could make the money was waxing.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_01: You could, you know, crank out at eyebrow wax every 15 minutes and just be booked all day doing eyebrow waxes, getting the tips, getting the commission.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_01: But I would trade with the other aestheticians uh at the spa and I would do all the facials.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_01: Uh just because I wanted to like get, we're just saying get my hands dirty, but I wanted to get my hands on skin, look at skin, have a repeat clientele.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_01: Then from there, sort of again being just exhausted with not getting the full impact of what I wanted uh as an aesthetician, I started training, educating for Kate Somerville skincare in the Northwest region specifically.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_01: So from basically San Francisco to Anchorage was like the region I had.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_01: Simultaneously, I opened a private practice because I had built enough clientele and also through the ballet, had a good built in clientele, and then started doing advanced education and facials from my private studio.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_01: That was when I learned and when the product line started to happen, where buy ins at that time for Any line I would want to carry was upwards of$15,000 because they wanted you to have, you know, the entire back bar range plus 10 units of each skew they offered.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_01: And it's it's changed so drastically since then.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_01: But I was like, wait, if I'm gonna spend this much on somebody else's brand, I always joke that it was my Oprah moment.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_01: She always had to invest in herself.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_01: That's why she's Harpo at this production company.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_01: But I'm like, if I can find one manufacturer who will work with me and start one product, really small minimums, like maybe there can be something here.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_01: And so I did, and we're still with that manufacturer today.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_01: And they dropped the minimums greatly for me for the first product.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_01: And again, it was still meant to be.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_01: I had my private practice.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_01: I was booked five days a week, and that was where I used and sold the product.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_01: I had it online, but I think we had 10 online orders a year.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it was truly for people who came to see me.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_00: What was the first product?
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_01: It was what well is now discontinued, sadly, but is the after-show original cleanser, the scented one, um, which had a whole force discontinuation, which talking about it's always something earlier with you.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_01: Uh that was a surprise that we did not see coming.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, but it was the after-show.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_01: It was originally called Plie, um, which we had to change the name because of a trademark.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_01: It's you.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_01: Which we'll talk about that off camera because it is always something.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_01: It's always something.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_01: And we didn't really have to change it, but the we'll talk about it off camera.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um director's cut coming after this.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_01: And so that was the product line, and that was what I saw.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_01: At that time, it would have now been 2013, 2014.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_01: So I was on Instagram and Facebook.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_01: But if you look back, I have spent, I've deleted so many things, but I have scrolled back on the Jordan Samerskin Instagram feed to 2013, 2014.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_01: And like I would sort of talk about brand stuff, but then it would be like random photos of me in a pool somewhere, which was fine.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_01: It's an eponymous brand.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_01: Like I can, and it doesn't even matter.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_01: You can post whatever.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_01: But I wasn't really using it as a tool for the brand because nobody was.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_01: You know, at that time, like there were very few, like Glossier, Herbivore.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_01: I believe people started to call them the like Instagram brands, the brands that sort of built via social, via the start of it.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_01: And so then I don't want to say I copied them, but it was like, oh, right, look at how they're using this tool.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_01: This tool at this at that time was, I think, fully free.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I don't think you could even do sponsored posts at that point.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_00: Video on Instagram didn't actually come until 2013.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_03: Well, this was also back in the day when uh, you know, the ads, like running ads through meta through Instagram was extremely cheap and better targeted.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, exactly.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_01: Uh so no, so the that was a very long answer to say that we did not, I just started sort of like, okay, I'm a facialist, I use the product in the treatment, I sell the product afterwards, and we can have it online if people want to know about it, and I'll post some cute things on social.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_01: And that was the extent of it.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_01: And then something happened, I think it was with Caroline Hierens.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_01: I started, obviously, I was trying to, and as an aesthetician, I mean, obviously as a Durham and chemist as well, but like you also know that the education in aesthetics is so basic and bare and minimum in school that you have to search out everything outside of your schooling.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_01: And so for me, I was like, who can I, you know, I was watching things on YouTube, I was doing advanced trainings of, and even if I wasn't going to utilize it, I was like, I can at least absorb something.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_01: And at that point, Caroline Hierons, she had a fantastic video with the Pixie Woos and just what she was talking about and how direct she is and was at that in that video.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_01: And I think I harassed her, not I think, I know I harassed her on Twitter at the time until she responded to me.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_01: And she finally got the product in maybe 2014 or 2015, spoke about it once, and we were like, what's happening with our website?
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_01: And then we weren't prepared to, you know, truly take that on.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_01: And then it was around 2015, 2016 that we had a look at what we were actually doing and was like, okay, we can now do the correct minimums with our manufacturers.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_01: We can have more products, we can really build out our website, we can, and we updated the branding at that point too.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_01: It was sort of like, oh, wait, this is going to be bigger than just I'm doing it for menu.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_00: This is still with just the one initial product.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_00: Or here do you think that's a good idea?
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_01: At that point, yeah, it won.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_01: Because at that point in 2015, so when we started to do that change, uh, then I came out with our second the hydrate facial serum.
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, so it was the one that went into two.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, we've always been one foot in front of the other, which you have to be if you don't have deep pockets or investment.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_01: But I again, so it talking about it and looking back, it happened organically, but also really naive of me.
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_01: And like things worked out the way they should have.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_01: But like, I feel like I could have made much more of a splash had I actually been like, here's the business plan, and here's but like I was stupid and didn't do that.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_00: Different time.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I think though that there's definitely an approach, and I mean, me being a founder of an indie brand now, I see this.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_03: It's like there's this idea that a lot of people have, and we were talking about this off camera before, about like, oh, like I need to scale quickly, I need to make an exit within, you know, five years or something.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_03: Versus I feel like when you're in it just for like the love of the game, the love of the product, your approach is different.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it's not just about getting out something new constantly or you know, increasing the number of SKUs.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_03: Because one thing I talk about here all the time is like these brands that just trade in newness and they're constantly launching something new and then discontinuing something on the back end.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_03: Um, so one of the things that I've always loved about your brand is just kind of the launch cadence because it feels like y'all are not releasing anything that you don't need to.
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_03: No, you know, like um you're not coming out with a new launch every two months.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_00: And you're not releasing product you haven't actually spent the time to develop and be intentional with.
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_00: Because this last year you launched what is like the scented line, the scented range.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yes, yeah.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_00: And with that, you launched you launched actual fragrance, but also you're expanding that into other product categories.
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_00: But it took you how long to even develop that?
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_01: Oh God.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, again, honestly, not with this perfumer, but it was something that was on my plate in 2018.
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_01: We actually developed a fragrance with David at Diaz and Durga and finished it.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_01: But then when it came to be, it would have been a very stupid business move because the minimums that they were able to provide were too high for us for a thing that we were not known for.
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_01: And again, we didn't have deep pockets at the time, still don't.
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_01: It just didn't make sense to launch it.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_01: So I put it on hold, uh, thought we were going to bring it back out, then started doing other body care stuff, then found a perfumer who I fell in love with, Luca Mafei in Italy, and we ended up working together.
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_01: But that was in 2022, and then 2024 is when the first fragrance end of December 2024 is when the first fragrance came out.
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, it was it's been years.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_00: So there's a process, there's a timeline when you're not trying to just chase a trend.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_00: Which that being said, having done this for so long and social you being on social media before like the age of the influencer really took off, like how has that shift been, like from your perspective as both a creator and a brand owner, just seeing how that's like ramped up, especially with the last like six years.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_01: I just did a TikTok about this, which started with me saying, Where are we on skincare information?
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_01: Are we maxed out?
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_01: Because I I think it was you, Angelo, years ago that you were like, you know, we have to remember when we're speaking on social media, this is like the greater population out there doesn't know about niacinamide or care about the not that they don't care about it, but it's not like it's a different tool of who you're talking to on social media in the skincare community as opposed to the greater population out there.
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_01: No, it's been a wild ride because at first it was like everything was sort of new and untouched.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_01: And I actually, in a way, the misinformation was probably worse, but it was, I don't want to say well-meaning, but I feel like it was actually just good vibes.
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_01: Because again, I could post photos of a flower and it would get 800 likes, and I had hardly any followers.
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_01: Like now we post this really good, informative, bite-sized information.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, this post is killer, and I'll get like 24 likes.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, what?
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_03: So certain things are definitely suppressed.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_03: I think you know, now all of the platforms are morphing into each other, and they basically will boost anything that's sensational and drives engagement.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_03: So it's like if you're given good education, most of the time it's not sensationalized.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_03: And I also think that um, you know, if you're doing carousel posts, it's like they'll Instagram will say constantly, yeah, barry your content.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_03: It's like it's not showing that to people.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_01: No, exactly.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_01: That's how I feel.
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, I'm I'm doing what you told me to do.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_01: It's not doing anything.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_00: They say they'll incentivize trying out the new thing they're trying to launch, and then it's like, why am I not performing?
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_01: Work with me here.
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_01: So I feel that we with social media, it has just been this really interesting roller coaster.
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_01: Because, like I said, the misinformation was probably worse, but it was good vibes because there wasn't, again, to your point, Angela, there wasn't like uh a need to post sensationalized content to get the clicks and the views and rage bait and clickbait and everything there is now.
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_01: And so half the time anymore, I think people are doing shit they know they're doing.
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_00: They're intentionally rage-bating by the engagement.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_00: Because even on our end, negative posting, very negative, aggressive, angry content will always outperform educational or positive.
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_03: There was recently an article, I don't know where it appeared, but they um interviewed Audrey Peters, who's this like she's an influencer, has a big following, and I guess makes a lot of money, but like started out just talking about like luxury and like Hermes bags and stuff, and people got angry with her and she grew.
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_03: So she basically her management told her to do more age baits.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_03: So she did things like, oh, ordering everything I eat in a day on Postmates or something.
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_03: Like she paid$25 to have a Starbucks coffee brought from her from like the block next to her or something.
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_03: And I mean, yeah, there's that, there's the spread of misinformation because again, stuff that sounds sensational goes far.
• 32:49
  SPEAKER_03: And I think also now uh the rise in affiliate marketing, especially TikTok shop.
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_03: A lot of the lies come from there because the brands don't really have control over what these creators are saying about the product.
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_01: So no, it's a it's a it's a crazy cycle.
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_01: And so it's been like I said, good vibes doesn't mean it was good, but it just there wasn't anything got liked.
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_01: So nothing had to be sensationalized.
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_01: And so I I do think I don't want to say well-meaning, but I think people that maybe were spreading misinformation in the beginning truly didn't know any better.
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_01: And if somebody came in and educated them, maybe those views changed and great and it was good.
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_01: Now it's a whole different ballgame.
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_01: But there's been the cycle of like, oh, listen to aestheticians, like derms don't know what they're doing.
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_01: Then now it's the hate of aestheticians.
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like derms are just trying to do X, Y, and Z and listen to chemists.
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_01: And like I've we've we've the whole trifecta here.
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um next episode is Us just Mud Fighting.
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_01: I I feel like it has constantly shifted.
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, it's frustrating because for me, I don't want to post about anything trendy, or I don't want to, or we're not gonna produce anything trendy, and I'm not gonna promote or post anything sensationalized.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_01: And also, too, there have been many times where I have said something, not again, blatantly wrong, but maybe that's incorrect, and somebody just corrects me out of the comment section, you know, privately on messaging.
• 34:13
  SPEAKER_01: And then I take the post down, I redo it, or I read, you know, I make, I mean, there are ways to do it, and it's just been very interesting because I feel like the way that is doesn't get clicks, likes, follows anymore.
• 34:27
  SPEAKER_01: And so people aren't gonna do that.
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_01: And so it's just been a very interesting.
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_01: I hope we're gonna come around to, I don't know, a whole second coming of the beginning of social media, but I don't know, who knows?
• 34:39
  SPEAKER_00: We'll see.
• 34:39
  SPEAKER_00: You know what's so funny?
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_00: Is we went, me and my husband went to go see a movie yesterday at the AMC Kipps Bay, Kipps Bay, Kipps Bay, and there was a really random ad.
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_00: And the end of it became this like photo collage display, and we're like, what is this for?
• 34:53
  SPEAKER_00: Everyone in the theater was like, what is this for?
• 34:55
  SPEAKER_00: Pinterest.
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_00: Pinterest making a massive comeback.
• 34:58
  SPEAKER_00: And to Angelo's point earlier about the carousels.
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, I think we are kind of seeing our resurgence back to photos and like still as opposed to video for promotion.
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_03: I think I may be the biggest uh derm on Pinterest right now.
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_00: The biggest little derm.
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_03: And also lemonade, which is very similar.
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_00: People use that?
• 35:19
  SPEAKER_03: I guess.
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_01: I have downloaded it.
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_03: I have 80 some thousand followers.
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_01: Intentionally or by accident?
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe by accident, but I wait, what?
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_01: On lemonade?
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_01: On lemonade?
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_03: How many followers?
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_03: 80 some thousand, yeah.
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_00: What do we do on lemonade?
• 35:35
  SPEAKER_00: What is lemonade?
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_03: Lemonate is owned by Byte Dance, so it's the TikTok people, but it's them trying to create a platform that I think is a little bit more like Pinterest.
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_03: Oh.
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_03: So it's still with the idea of like affiliate stuff and like trying to sell product, but it's more focused on you know, stills and like giving people ideas and things like that, like how to.
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_03: Um back in the day though, like, were you a Tumblr kid?
• 36:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_00: Were you a Tumblr adult?
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_01: So yes.
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, oh.
• 36:13
  SPEAKER_00: Tumblr was where it was at.
• 36:15
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm talking for me, I got on Tumblr the first time in 2008.
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_00: For me, the height of Tumblr was 2011 and like 2014.
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_00: Think Lana Del Rey Born to Die.
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_03: No, Tumblr made Lana Del Rey.
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_00: Marina and the Diamond, Electro Heart.
• 36:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 36:29
  SPEAKER_00: But also, Kylie Jenner had like a massive, and it was all about the phone.
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_00: The Kylie vibes, the aesthetics, the 19th 1975 group.
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_00: The XX, like this whole vibe and aesthetic.
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_00: We should go back to that.
• 36:41
  SPEAKER_01: Indy sleeves.
• 36:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_01: No, I also it's just easier to consume in a way.
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I don't know.
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes I do just I don't want information.
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_01: I actually, and that was where that initial question I asked on TikTok came from, too.
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_01: Not that I don't want to educate, of course, I want to educate, but I'm like, yeah, it would be nice to just scroll through it a really beautiful photo of me.
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_01: Or, you know, product or a person, or my God, even a beautiful cocktail, a beautiful setting in a restaurant.
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_01: Like a vibe.
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_03: You know what?
• 37:15
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 37:15
  SPEAKER_03: And that's why I have trained my algorithm to not be skincare content.
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_03: Every now and then there's like interesting stuff that I do want to learn about.
• 37:23
  SPEAKER_03: Like that's not related to skin.
• 37:25
  SPEAKER_00: What's your explore page on Instagram look like?
• 37:28
  SPEAKER_00: Mine is Pugs.
• 37:30
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of ASL right now.
• 37:32
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's it.
• 37:33
  SPEAKER_03: A lot of mine is I I got into this bad habit of buying and collecting gemstones.
• 37:39
  SPEAKER_03: So a lot of it is people showing me stuff that I can't afford.
• 37:46
  SPEAKER_01: First of all, this is actually an Saturday night live skit where it was like, show us your for you page.
• 37:51
  SPEAKER_00: I don't watch that.
• 37:52
  SPEAKER_01: And then I just got nervous when you asked me.
• 37:54
  SPEAKER_01: Mine is men in the streets.
• 37:56
  SPEAKER_01: Well, this is explore.
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_01: Explore.
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_03: Explore, not your your regular like explore.
• 38:04
  SPEAKER_03: I'm actually my exploring now.
• 38:05
  SPEAKER_03: Is on Instagram.
• 38:08
  SPEAKER_03: Where, yeah, it's where it's the oh wow, okay.
• 38:12
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know what that's about.
• 38:13
  SPEAKER_00: Where are the plugs?
• 38:13
  SPEAKER_00: I said there was pugs here.
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_00: There's supposed to be pugs.
• 38:15
  SPEAKER_03: See, I see a lot of makeup.
• 38:19
  SPEAKER_00: I have pug.
• 38:20
  SPEAKER_00: I really want a pug, and I've been begging my husband for a pug for the last seven years.
• 38:26
  SPEAKER_03: Instagram does, though, do this thing where they're like, we know you're gay.
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_03: Here's a shirtless man.
• 38:35
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm like, I just clicked on the search thing to look for something.
• 38:39
  SPEAKER_03: I didn't ask for that right now.
• 38:41
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't, it doesn't care about what you need in that moment.
• 38:44
  SPEAKER_03: When I ask when I want it, I will ask you.
• 38:48
  SPEAKER_03: But when I'm trying to find like that one contact that I can't remember who the fuck they are, why are you distracting me?
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 38:55
  SPEAKER_01: But then it and then I'll be the dumb one.
• 38:57
  SPEAKER_01: And I take the bait and I click on it because I'm like, oh, look at that.
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_01: And then exactly.
• 39:02
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 39:03
  SPEAKER_01: I know.
• 39:04
  SPEAKER_01: I know better.
• 39:05
  SPEAKER_00: Jordan show us your explorer page.
• 39:06
  SPEAKER_00: No, no.
• 39:07
  SPEAKER_01: No, no.
• 39:07
  SPEAKER_01: I will show you.
• 39:08
  SPEAKER_01: So I also have my cats on Instagram.
• 39:10
  SPEAKER_01: And that algorithm I have truly built block by block.
• 39:14
  SPEAKER_01: And it is all photos of Italy and then cats.
• 39:16
  SPEAKER_01: And that is it.
• 39:17
  SPEAKER_03: Cats in Italy?
• 39:18
  SPEAKER_03: In Italy.
• 39:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, exactly.
• 39:20
  SPEAKER_01: Italian cats.
• 39:21
  SPEAKER_01: Or cats in Greece or cats in Turkey.
• 39:22
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 39:23
  SPEAKER_01: And it's beautiful.
• 39:24
  SPEAKER_01: And that is great.
• 39:26
  SPEAKER_01: And I would show you that for you, Paige.
• 39:28
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 39:29
  SPEAKER_03: My um TikTok algorithm is a lot of right now.
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, animal videos, um, people tripping and falling in funny ways.
• 39:39
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, no, no, not in the dire ways.
• 39:41
  SPEAKER_03: I love tripping and falling.
• 39:42
  SPEAKER_03: Um yeah.
• 39:45
  SPEAKER_03: Right now, a lot of the people, like, there's a whole drama and discourse about people talking about um it's always about fucking Hermes.
• 39:55
  SPEAKER_03: It's like, oh, people who carry the the um cosmetic case as a as a purse.
• 40:02
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah.
• 40:03
  SPEAKER_03: I'm like, oh god, shut the fuck up.
• 40:05
  SPEAKER_03: People are dying somewhere.
• 40:06
  SPEAKER_00: My algorithm is still about the COVID-conscious lesbian bar in West Massachusetts.
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, that's so long ago.
• 40:12
  SPEAKER_00: The news cycle intended.
• 40:14
  SPEAKER_00: The COVID-conscious lesbian bar in Western Massachusetts.
• 40:19
  SPEAKER_00: Wait, do you live under a rock?
• 40:20
  SPEAKER_00: Have you not heard about this?
• 40:21
  SPEAKER_00: This is a lot of exploring paid is nothing but shirtless guys.
• 40:25
  SPEAKER_03: Um we'll talk about it off camera because we've talked about it here extensively.
• 40:30
  SPEAKER_00: Being a Seattle girly, you'll find out about it and be like, oh yeah, no, that makes sense.
• 40:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um that and also my recent TikTok algorithm is people coming to Jesus about the Ulta Beauty Salon and how amazing their services are and how affordable.
• 40:42
  SPEAKER_03: Have you seen this?
• 40:44
  SPEAKER_03: I wish, I wish I could, I should have saved this fucking video.
• 40:47
  SPEAKER_00: I wish, I wish with all my heart.
• 40:49
  SPEAKER_03: There was it was oh.
• 40:52
  SPEAKER_03: I'm not sharing the camera.
• 40:53
  SPEAKER_00: Wait, zoom in.
• 40:54
  SPEAKER_03: No, that checks out.
• 40:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 40:57
  SPEAKER_00: After after hours.
• 40:58
  SPEAKER_00: Send me some of those.
• 41:00
  SPEAKER_03: No, it was It was a video of somebody at like the Ulta bar getting their hair done, and it's this lady.
• 41:09
  SPEAKER_03: It's like this woman has like her natural, probably like 4C hair, and it's like this long, and this lady's going with two hair straight, or just going two straight.
• 41:18
  SPEAKER_03: Oh no.
• 41:20
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm like right on the scalp.
• 41:24
  SPEAKER_00: Big teased southern hair.
• 41:28
  SPEAKER_00: I love those videos on TikTok.
• 41:30
  SPEAKER_00: Like the girls that got the big ass, like, hey guys, I'm gonna show you my hair routine.
• 41:34
  SPEAKER_00: Those videos.
• 41:36
  SPEAKER_03: Um, okay, not just that, also uh the British brides with the big hair or the Roma brides.
• 41:44
  SPEAKER_03: Irish travelers.
• 41:45
  SPEAKER_03: Irish, yeah.
• 41:46
  SPEAKER_03: Roma people.
• 41:48
  SPEAKER_00: They the thing is, I forget what it is.
• 41:49
  SPEAKER_00: I will try to find it and sent it to you.
• 41:51
  SPEAKER_00: There's the a day of the year, they all hang out right outside of Harrods.
• 41:54
  SPEAKER_00: Don't know why.
• 41:55
  SPEAKER_03: And the hair is huge.
• 41:58
  SPEAKER_03: What?
• 41:59
  SPEAKER_03: It must take hours.
• 42:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, like my version of like waitresses.
• 42:01
  SPEAKER_01: Y'all have like way better.
• 42:03
  SPEAKER_01: My big thing on TikTok specifically is I see like a video of somebody who's lost a pet, and then I engage with it, and then my entire TikTok feed is pet loss.
• 42:11
  SPEAKER_01: That's so sad.
• 42:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, it's terrible.
• 42:13
  SPEAKER_01: My husband and then if it's not pet loss, it's Christmas.
• 42:16
  SPEAKER_01: So my husband thinks I'm insane, which I am.
• 42:18
  SPEAKER_01: But uh Do you love Christmas?
• 42:21
  SPEAKER_01: Love.
• 42:21
  SPEAKER_01: You love Christmas.
• 42:22
  SPEAKER_01: You do your whole Christmas movie.
• 42:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, so I love Christmas.
• 42:25
  SPEAKER_01: I'm okay.
• 42:26
  SPEAKER_03: How do you feel about Mariah Carey?
• 42:28
  SPEAKER_01: Love.
• 42:29
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, good.
• 42:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 42:30
  SPEAKER_01: Uh yeah.
• 42:31
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, for many reasons.
• 42:32
  unknown: Period.
• 42:33
  SPEAKER_01: Including I don't know her.
• 42:35
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my gosh.
• 42:38
  SPEAKER_00: Favorite Christmas movie?
• 42:40
  SPEAKER_01: Recently, I have a few, but recently it has been The Family Stone, actually.
• 42:46
  SPEAKER_03: I've never seen it.
• 42:46
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my god.
• 42:47
  SPEAKER_01: It's you have to be in the right mindset though, because like Sarah Jessica Parker does this sound to it.
• 42:51
  SPEAKER_00: That's that's yeah.
• 42:53
  SPEAKER_01: Five years ago, four years ago, it would have been sort of the first time we could have traveled for the holidays after COVID.
• 42:59
  SPEAKER_01: And uh my mother-in-law was retiring.
• 43:02
  SPEAKER_01: And so, but we had just also rescued two cats.
• 43:05
  SPEAKER_01: And so it was this sort of thing of like Ben was going first to visit, you know, to go celebrate his mom.
• 43:11
  SPEAKER_01: And then I was gonna have a tighter time frame, but I was gonna fly for Christmas.
• 43:13
  SPEAKER_01: And it was the year, I think it was 2022 or something.
• 43:16
  SPEAKER_01: That do you remember like the entire country froze over, like including Arizona?
• 43:19
  SPEAKER_01: So, like to get a flight out, like you couldn't get a flight out.
• 43:22
  SPEAKER_03: Climate change.
• 43:23
  SPEAKER_01: And then they said they could get me my flight, my initial flight was on December 23rd.
• 43:28
  SPEAKER_01: They said they could get me out on December 26th, but my return flight was on December 26th.
• 43:32
  SPEAKER_01: You're like quicker, it was like that quicker than that.
• 43:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 43:35
  SPEAKER_01: And then they were like, Well, your first flight is gonna get to, I had to connect.
• 43:38
  SPEAKER_01: Your first flight's gonna get to Minnesota.
• 43:40
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, I'm not gonna be stuck on Christmas morning by myself in like an airport Ramada Inn.
• 43:45
  SPEAKER_00: They literally made Home Alone too about that.
• 43:47
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 43:48
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 43:49
  SPEAKER_01: So um I watched Family Store.
• 43:51
  SPEAKER_01: Donald Trump was in that scary shit.
• 43:53
  SPEAKER_01: Some people cut it out now, is part, which I love.
• 43:56
  SPEAKER_01: Some people, some stations.
• 43:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 43:58
  SPEAKER_01: We're looking at you, Fox.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_01: Uh but the Family Stone.
• 44:01
  SPEAKER_01: But like when I watched it in 2022, I was like, I fucking hate this movie.
• 44:05
  SPEAKER_00: So wait, where did the whole frozen over?
• 44:07
  SPEAKER_00: Were you in the Ramada Inn watching this?
• 44:08
  SPEAKER_00: Or what happened there?
• 44:09
  SPEAKER_01: No, I said I said to Ben, my husband, I was like, Ben, I this is what's gonna happen.
• 44:14
  SPEAKER_01: And he was like, no, it sucks.
• 44:16
  SPEAKER_01: But like, yes, stay home, stay with the cat.
• 44:17
  SPEAKER_01: Like, we're good.
• 44:18
  SPEAKER_01: Uh so I stayed home.
• 44:20
  SPEAKER_01: I watched Family Stone for the first time in like five years, maybe, thinking like, oh, I remember loving this.
• 44:26
  SPEAKER_01: And like, you have to be in the right mindset.
• 44:28
  SPEAKER_01: It's very sad.
• 44:30
  SPEAKER_01: It's also very serious, but it's also very real.
• 44:32
  SPEAKER_00: Like, there are a lot of like I feel real topics of like families that don't get along, or um, not even families, but you know his dynamics that are weird, but also the N was weird because she ended up with the brother instead of the guy that she came with and all this stuff.
• 44:45
  SPEAKER_00: It was spoiler alert.
• 44:47
  SPEAKER_03: Come on.
• 44:47
  SPEAKER_00: I'm about to watch this.
• 44:49
  SPEAKER_00: We need to know which sister or which brother.
• 44:52
  SPEAKER_00: Incested.
• 44:52
  SPEAKER_03: That's gonna be the fucking clip.
• 44:55
  SPEAKER_03: Incest.
• 44:56
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know how to respond to that or I guess off camera.
• 44:58
  SPEAKER_03: Just like, let me make note of the hour.
• 45:01
  SPEAKER_00: Like, we'll be mid-episode, and I'm like, that's gonna be the clip.
• 45:03
  SPEAKER_00: That's gonna be the fucking stuff for the carousel.
• 45:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um, no, I hate that movie.
• 45:06
  SPEAKER_00: My favorite Christmas movie is Black Christmas from 1970s.
• 45:09
  SPEAKER_01: Wait, I don't know this movie.
• 45:10
  SPEAKER_01: The horror movie, Black Christmas.
• 45:12
  SPEAKER_01: That's a horror movie.
• 45:12
  SPEAKER_01: I love horror movies, but not for Christmas.
• 45:14
  SPEAKER_00: And it's the 70s, so it's like just very vibey, very moody.
• 45:17
  SPEAKER_00: The remakes aren't as good.
• 45:19
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so then like my actual would be Polar Express.
• 45:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um starring Tanache.
• 45:25
  SPEAKER_01: Like huh?
• 45:27
  SPEAKER_02: Tanache and Polar Express?
• 45:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you know the little ghost on the train like this.
• 45:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 45:30
  SPEAKER_00: Wait, that's Tanasha?
• 45:32
  SPEAKER_00: The voice?
• 45:33
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 45:34
  SPEAKER_00: What?
• 45:35
  SPEAKER_00: Do you know Jordan?
• 45:35
  SPEAKER_00: Wait, sorry.
• 45:36
  SPEAKER_00: Jordan, do you know who Tanache is?
• 45:37
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 45:38
  SPEAKER_00: Oh.
• 45:39
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my god, you do live under a rock.
• 45:42
  SPEAKER_00: I'm also 72.
• 45:43
  SPEAKER_00: He's an older gay.
• 45:45
  SPEAKER_00: Tanache was like Gladys Knight or something.
• 45:48
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my god.
• 45:49
  SPEAKER_00: That was so mean.
• 45:51
  SPEAKER_01: I fucking love Gladys Knight, first of all.
• 45:53
  SPEAKER_01: Actually, I'm not proving your point.
• 45:55
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not proving your point.
• 45:57
  SPEAKER_00: No, his Tanache was like Jenna Jackson, yeah.
• 46:00
  SPEAKER_00: Which actually that is her grandmother.
• 46:02
  SPEAKER_03: In some ways.
• 46:03
  SPEAKER_03: I've really no, I don't know.
• 46:04
  SPEAKER_03: Brittany Spears is Tanache's grandmother, but they did collab together as well.
• 46:08
  SPEAKER_00: Slumber Party 2014.
• 46:10
  SPEAKER_03: Anyway, okay.
• 46:12
  SPEAKER_03: This is like gay.
• 46:12
  SPEAKER_03: I'm too old for this.
• 46:14
  SPEAKER_03: Anyway.
• 46:14
  SPEAKER_00: You'll love Tanache.
• 46:16
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 46:16
  SPEAKER_03: You mentioned your husband Ben.
• 46:18
  SPEAKER_03: Is he involved in the company too?
• 46:20
  SPEAKER_01: He is.
• 46:20
  SPEAKER_03: What's that like?
• 46:22
  SPEAKER_01: It's actually amazing.
• 46:24
  SPEAKER_01: So that's always the first question that people ask us.
• 46:27
  SPEAKER_01: That again, this was a plan that we had sort of talked about, and Ben was a professional dancer as well.
• 46:32
  SPEAKER_01: He retired in 2020 and was going to retire in 2020.
• 46:36
  SPEAKER_01: It got a little shortened because of the pandemic from what he was originally going to do.
• 46:39
  SPEAKER_01: Our plan at the time, we both were dancing in Seattle.
• 46:42
  SPEAKER_01: And then once he retired from his career in Seattle, we were going to move back to New York.
• 46:46
  SPEAKER_01: That was still the plan.
• 46:47
  SPEAKER_01: I was going to continue building the brand.
• 46:49
  SPEAKER_01: And he simultaneously, because he's an overachiever, had gotten an arts management degree at Seattle University while he was dancing professionally and was ideally going to be working in marketing or development for American Ballet Theater in New York City Ballet.
• 47:04
  SPEAKER_01: Obviously, arts organizations were hit the hardest during the pandemic and really didn't open back up until 2022 and certainly weren't really hiring anybody until 2023.
• 47:14
  SPEAKER_01: And so Ben needed a job.
• 47:16
  SPEAKER_01: We needed somebody in marketing capacity for us.
• 47:20
  SPEAKER_01: He was like, I don't really have experience, but I said, you know, you have been literally, he knows every product in our line, like the back of his hand.
• 47:27
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, what you don't have in marketing experience, you have in experience of the product line and being living with me and dealing with every day in, day out issue.
• 47:36
  SPEAKER_01: We have worked our entire lives together because we both dance together.
• 47:39
  SPEAKER_01: Obviously, that would be different rehearsals.
• 47:41
  SPEAKER_01: It wouldn't necessarily be actually working together.
• 47:45
  SPEAKER_01: But we've always had a similar schedule.
• 47:46
  SPEAKER_01: We've always, so we actually get on really well and we're very opposite, um, which helps a lot.
• 47:53
  SPEAKER_01: So uh if we do butt heads, it's a very short butting of the heads.
• 47:57
  SPEAKER_01: Well, butt heads, somebody might be butthurt for a second, and then that's a terrible thing.
• 48:03
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but don't cut your eyes at the camera.
• 48:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um we could cut that.
• 48:08
  SPEAKER_01: And then um, and then we move on.
• 48:11
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 48:12
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, but no, it's actually lovely.
• 48:14
  SPEAKER_01: Hard thing is, oh my god, I feel like I need to stop with the one the hard thing is like butthurt, hard thing.
• 48:21
  SPEAKER_01: I'll just keep going.
• 48:22
  SPEAKER_00: We weren't gonna even give you that one.
• 48:23
  SPEAKER_01: No, I mean I was gonna give it to myself.
• 48:25
  SPEAKER_00: What's your sign?
• 48:26
  SPEAKER_01: Pisces, we're both Pisces.
• 48:27
  SPEAKER_01: Ben and I are both Pisces.
• 48:28
  SPEAKER_01: Pisces me too.
• 48:29
  SPEAKER_00: Two Pisces men, three Pisces men.
• 48:31
  SPEAKER_01: Are you March 4th?
• 48:33
  SPEAKER_01: Third.
• 48:34
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, third.
• 48:34
  SPEAKER_01: You're early.
• 48:35
  SPEAKER_01: Wait, there's the thing is there are so many Pisces in.
• 48:37
  SPEAKER_01: Don't steal my identity.
• 48:38
  SPEAKER_01: Wait, you're March 3rd.
• 48:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you're the same birthday, I think, as Linda Roden, who I'm obsessed with who.
• 48:43
  SPEAKER_01: Anyway, so yeah.
• 48:44
  SPEAKER_01: Wait, what are you?
• 48:45
  SPEAKER_00: I'm a Leo, July 31st.
• 48:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, tracks.
• 48:49
  SPEAKER_01: If you didn't say Leo, I was gonna say Scorpio.
• 48:52
  SPEAKER_00: No, my best friends are Scorpios, though.
• 48:53
  SPEAKER_01: But it is great.
• 48:54
  SPEAKER_01: The hard thing is um never really shutting off.
• 48:58
  SPEAKER_01: We try to be good about it.
• 48:59
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, but like our morning walks, that people are always like, oh, that's so great.
• 49:02
  SPEAKER_01: You do a morning walk.
• 49:03
  SPEAKER_01: It's a 90-minute business meeting.
• 49:05
  SPEAKER_01: Like, yes, it's a beautiful morning walk, but like the entire time we're talking about new launches or sales or KPIs, regulations.
• 49:14
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 49:15
  SPEAKER_01: And then say, you know, it's like even we'll be on like the treadmill at the gym, and I'll like happen to like look at my phone and email and be like looking at him because like so not shutting off is an issue.
• 49:27
  SPEAKER_01: I don't mind it because it also I love what I do, but it is the one thing that I would say is hard when you're we're both doing it, we're living together, we're constantly so let's talk about that.
• 49:37
  SPEAKER_00: Because how do you essentially do you ever actually intentionally be like, okay, 6 30, you gotta clock off?
• 49:43
  SPEAKER_01: Or at night, I yes.
• 49:45
  SPEAKER_01: So the where I really do it is sort of end of day.
• 49:49
  SPEAKER_01: I really try to clock off.
• 49:51
  SPEAKER_01: Like if one of us is cooking dinner, that is definitely the time where it's like, I also want if I'm cooking dinner and he's still working, I'm gonna stop working, or vice versa.
• 49:59
  SPEAKER_01: Nothing's that urgent.
• 50:00
  SPEAKER_01: And truly, nothing in our company would be that urgent where we would need to be, you know, doing something really erratically.
• 50:08
  SPEAKER_01: And so it's like, stop, stop.
• 50:11
  SPEAKER_01: Where it gets bad is I'll be fine for the rest of the night, and then I'll happen to check my email like before I go to bed.
• 50:16
  SPEAKER_01: And not that much is gonna happen then, but there can be, we do have, again, because we started the company in Seattle, a lot of like our legal team is in Seattle.
• 50:27
  SPEAKER_01: There's other people, you know, we work with or talk to that are in Seattle.
• 50:30
  SPEAKER_01: So those emails will residually come in later in the day after we've sort of shut off.
• 50:35
  SPEAKER_01: And again, don't need to be answered until tomorrow.
• 50:37
  SPEAKER_01: So I try to be good about that, not checking email.
• 50:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but we've we've sort of made the end of the day till bedtime like a very specific routine where we can stay out of work.
• 50:50
  SPEAKER_01: We have to, because otherwise it will and weekend too.
• 50:53
  SPEAKER_01: Weekend I'm weekend, I'm very good at.
• 50:55
  SPEAKER_01: But also, I think because I also understood like nobody else is working, even customer service, they know like if there's like nobody's working.
• 51:01
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 51:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so it's easier to check out during the weekend.
• 51:04
  SPEAKER_01: I think I have a harder time during the evenings in the day in the weekday.
• 51:08
  SPEAKER_00: But that's something that also like my half well, not half my team, but like my lawyers are based in LA.
• 51:13
  SPEAKER_00: Half my team is also based in LA.
• 51:15
  SPEAKER_00: But even for them, I'm like, girl, I'm getting this email at 10:30 at night east coast.
• 51:19
  SPEAKER_00: It is 7:30 Pacific time.
• 51:21
  SPEAKER_00: What are you doing still working?
• 51:22
  SPEAKER_00: Clock off.
• 51:22
  SPEAKER_00: I go to happy hour.
• 51:24
  SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
• 51:25
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know.
• 51:26
  SPEAKER_03: I feel like they start later there too.
• 51:29
  SPEAKER_03: It's like a weird thing, it's very awesome.
• 51:31
  SPEAKER_03: LA, I don't get it.
• 51:32
  SPEAKER_03: We don't get it.
• 51:33
  SPEAKER_03: No, yeah.
• 51:35
  SPEAKER_01: We're New Yorkers.
• 51:36
  SPEAKER_01: It's true.
• 51:36
  SPEAKER_01: But and now dealing with we have Italian manufacturers, we have Call of Beauty as our big retailer in the UK.
• 51:42
  SPEAKER_01: So everything's sort of coming in all at once.
• 51:44
  SPEAKER_01: So if we don't put a hard stop to it, we're just gonna constantly be let's talk about that.
• 51:49
  SPEAKER_03: Retailers, actually.
• 51:50
  SPEAKER_03: So, I mean, you know, we've been talking about how your brand is an indie brand.
• 51:55
  SPEAKER_03: It's like what retailers are y'all carried by now, and how do you decide who you want to partner with on that?
• 52:02
  SPEAKER_01: So we I actually love this conversation because I actually would love to talk to both of you about this because I think US beauty retail is very I don't want to even say interesting because I feel like no, we can.
• 52:14
  SPEAKER_01: It's not not even anything bad about the retailers necessarily.
• 52:16
  SPEAKER_01: It's just like what it would be.
• 52:18
  SPEAKER_01: But we were direct to consumer.
• 52:21
  SPEAKER_01: Again, I started in my facial studio, then it was like, oh, we can sell on the website.
• 52:24
  SPEAKER_01: So just little by little, and even though retailers had come to us, we set it up to be that way.
• 52:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um, we had one of the two biggest retailers in the US come to us in 2019.
• 52:35
  SPEAKER_01: Uh and of course, I was flattered.
• 52:38
  SPEAKER_01: And of course, I was like, okay, this isn't going to change the business, which it would, but it can also change.
• 52:44
  SPEAKER_01: We have seen many brands close over the past few years who sort of became a victim of drowning in retail and all the costs associated, all the hidden costs, I should say, not maybe not hidden, but all the costs associated with it.
• 52:55
  SPEAKER_01: And uh had trained and then working in Sephora's and Neiman and Nordstrom for Kate Somerville, I sort of knew the back end of it too.
• 53:03
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, it does sound too good to be true because it is too good to be true.
• 53:08
  SPEAKER_01: There's gonna be hard work, like we're gonna have to change what we're doing.
• 53:11
  SPEAKER_01: We're gonna have to take investment to get inventory up to what it needs to be to also be able to manage marketing for the store, to also be able to accept the you know returns that happen.
• 53:21
  SPEAKER_01: And so we let that go simultaneously, thanks to Caroline Hirens.
• 53:24
  SPEAKER_01: UK became not only our second largest market, it was competing with the US market, where like the UK on any given day could actually be better for us than the US.
• 53:34
  SPEAKER_01: Which Tina Turner always said that's how she so we I say I'm with the Tina Turner of skincare.
• 53:38
  SPEAKER_01: We do better in the UK than the US.
• 53:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um, do you know who that is?
• 53:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, because Beyonce loves her.
• 53:46
  SPEAKER_01: R.I.P.
• 53:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um yes, R.I.P.
• 53:51
  SPEAKER_01: Which I've really thought Tina was gonna live forever.
• 53:54
  SPEAKER_01: I mean an icon, a legend.
• 53:56
  SPEAKER_01: And looked like amazed, not that it's a talent, but like, oh my god, yeah, the best.
• 54:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um simply the best.
• 54:01
  SPEAKER_01: Simply the best, better than all the rest.
• 54:03
  SPEAKER_01: Uh okay, awesome.
• 54:05
  SPEAKER_01: Uh but Cult Beauty came around and gave us an offer that we couldn't refuse in 2019 as well, uh, with a setup to lead into a launch end of January 2020.
• 54:19
  SPEAKER_01: I know, which the timing sucked.
• 54:21
  SPEAKER_00: But question for you then in that regard, just because Cult Beauty is online only, retailer based out of the UK, but they do ship globally compared to a Sephora Ulta, how does that business model change for a brand like Jordan Sanderskin?
• 54:34
  SPEAKER_01: So the reason why that seemed not seemed is better for us, is that we weren't dealing with X amount of doors.
• 54:42
  SPEAKER_01: Everything was getting shipped to one warehouse, one distribution facility.
• 54:47
  SPEAKER_01: We didn't need testers, we didn't need any education, would just be under one roof to one team.
• 54:52
  SPEAKER_01: So for us, it was more digestible, it was easier to accomplish without changing our business model and business structure.
• 54:59
  SPEAKER_01: We didn't know how it was going to be, how we were going to be um received there, though we had created hunger while we did ship internationally.
• 55:09
  SPEAKER_01: It was really slow, it was expensive.
• 55:10
  SPEAKER_01: This was prior to Cult Beauty.
• 55:12
  SPEAKER_01: So we were hoping that Cult Beauty was going to take off for us.
• 55:18
  SPEAKER_01: And we sold through our entire stock in under 24 hours with the first, like, which is great.
• 55:23
  SPEAKER_01: Obviously, it's different now because things level out eventually, but we we really blasted through all forecasting the first year.
• 55:31
  SPEAKER_01: Then again, with retail, things can happen, and they got acquired by the HUD group, Call Beauty, uh, in 2020, end of 21, beginning of 22, and it was rough, rough.
• 55:45
  SPEAKER_01: It's fair to say it was, I mean, it was everywhere.
• 55:47
  SPEAKER_01: Estee Laundry posted about it, like it was a rough laundry.
• 55:52
  SPEAKER_01: Even Estee Laundry.
• 55:53
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my god.
• 55:54
  SPEAKER_01: Which I don't know, are they back?
• 55:56
  SPEAKER_01: Are they like they come and go?
• 55:58
  SPEAKER_01: They're not.
• 55:59
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 55:59
  SPEAKER_03: Estee Laundry, I gotta say, whoever was behind that, they were a little bit I I specifically remember they were trying to not saying that this is my idea of having fun, but like they would shit on brands that use CBD because they were like, oh, it's promoting marijuana use.
• 56:18
  SPEAKER_03: And I was just like, are they Mormon?
• 56:21
  SPEAKER_03: I'm like, okay, well, um, you know, CBD's been, you know, used in medicine for things.
• 56:28
  SPEAKER_03: It's like something that's widely studied.
• 56:31
  SPEAKER_03: And yeah, I don't know where they're from, but if they're American, like you should look into the history of jailing people.
• 56:39
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 56:39
  SPEAKER_03: Absolutely.
• 56:40
  SPEAKER_03: Small level offenses and like what perpetuating that stigma means.
• 56:45
  SPEAKER_01: I did not know that.
• 56:46
  SPEAKER_01: But I will say in the past two years, but this this would happen truly with any acquisition.
• 56:53
  SPEAKER_01: There, it's never seamless, it is never smooth.
• 56:56
  SPEAKER_01: And it eventually got there, and and we're now back in a really good place, and they've been a great retail partner for us.
• 57:01
  SPEAKER_01: Again, for many reasons.
• 57:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, would it be better if they had, I wouldn't even say better, but would it be better for discovery and growth if they had a handful of brick and mortar stores?
• 57:13
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 57:14
  SPEAKER_01: People could go in, discover the product.
• 57:16
  SPEAKER_01: However, there are things that they are doing now too, where they have uh pop-ups that are brand specific, which we can't afford, but then they do pop-ups where it's for Cult Beauty as is.
• 57:27
  SPEAKER_01: And we uh one of our products, the After Show Cleanser, is a bestseller on Cold Beauty.
• 57:30
  SPEAKER_01: So they always feature that.
• 57:32
  SPEAKER_01: So there we there are ways for us to um get in there.
• 57:36
  SPEAKER_01: Uh but this all goes back to beauty retail in the US, is really tricky because you have really crazy big players that like you just can't be a small brand without either deep pockets or investment in there and succeed.
• 57:51
  SPEAKER_01: That's Ulta, that's Sephora.
• 57:52
  SPEAKER_01: Again, nothing bad about that, even Blue Mercury.
• 57:55
  SPEAKER_01: But it's just if you don't have the business set up to be one way, it's you're not going to succeed.
• 58:01
  SPEAKER_03: We talk about this on the podcast a lot.
• 58:05
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and the number of indie brands that you know get into a big retailer like an Ulta, a Sephora, and you know, explaining to the audience that that's not necessarily your big break.
• 58:18
  SPEAKER_03: That could be the thing that breaks you.
• 58:20
  SPEAKER_03: Because like it's really sink or swim.
• 58:22
  SPEAKER_03: If you take off in those channels, it's great.
• 58:26
  SPEAKER_03: It's great for brand visibility more than anything, not really for profit necessarily.
• 58:31
  SPEAKER_03: No, but you do need to have the you know financial resources to be able to support that.
• 58:39
  SPEAKER_03: Not only the size of the orders that you need to fulfill for them, where generally they're not paying you upfront anything for that.
• 58:48
  SPEAKER_03: It's like you're just going to production out of your own pocket and you get the money paid back to you when you receive the product.
• 58:56
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but also the amount of time and money you need to spend on education, the fixtures that things go in in the stores and so on and so forth.
• 59:05
  SPEAKER_03: It's just like No, it's a if you don't have the money up front, if you're not ready to go with that capital, then you can close your business essentially.
• 59:16
  SPEAKER_01: But I am curious about this.
• 59:17
  SPEAKER_01: If you it's a very interesting time and place for beauty retail in the States because you have the big players, so you have Sephora, Ulta, Blue Mercury, then you have department stores, which I love.
• 59:30
  SPEAKER_00: Is Blue Mercury that big of a player?
• 59:31
  SPEAKER_00: You keep throwing that in there.
• 59:32
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, who shops are?
• 59:33
  SPEAKER_01: I think I think it's a big enough player in similar aspects of like chargebacks on returns, days to pay, size of orders.
• 59:45
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's it's it's not, no, it's not the volume, I don't think, of Sephora Ulta, but I think it's big enough where I still think it would be hard for a small brand to succeed if they weren't set up with the right tools.
• 59:56
  SPEAKER_01: Then you have department stores, which probably actually you lump blue mercury in more with that in terms of volume, but it's still the same thing.
• 1:00:03
  SPEAKER_01: It's, you know, margins aren't great and it's hard.
• 1:00:05
  SPEAKER_01: And they require a lot.
• 1:00:06
  SPEAKER_01: They require a lot of staffing your own education, the goals, like what you have to meet.
• 1:00:12
  SPEAKER_01: Is that's why I was hired uh at Kate Somerville, which it made it didn't make sense to me.
• 1:00:17
  SPEAKER_01: I was making not a great living, but a good living, simply being this educator to help the Northwest region because it was the number one region for Kate.
• 1:00:24
  SPEAKER_01: So they wanted that to be sort of where they put, I know it was, I think they didn't see it coming.
• 1:00:28
  SPEAKER_01: And then when it happened, they were sort of scrambling to get somebody into that place.
• 1:00:33
  SPEAKER_01: So you've that.
• 1:00:34
  SPEAKER_01: Then sort of outside of that, you have one-offs, which are great shops, but it's not going to do enough for a brand.
• 1:00:39
  SPEAKER_01: So you have like we're in CEO Bigelow, which I love CO Bigelow, but it's one store.
• 1:00:43
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:00:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um, there's Violet Gray, which is now two stores.
• 1:00:48
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, there's Credo Beauty, which I always look at.
• 1:00:52
  SPEAKER_01: You know, they have their clean marketing, which as a brand we qualify for, but we don't subscribe to that marketing.
• 1:01:00
  SPEAKER_01: So we have not gone in there.
• 1:01:02
  SPEAKER_01: But when I look at it from the outside in, I'm like, again, the volume of stores, I think they have 15 or 16 stores.
• 1:01:09
  SPEAKER_01: It would make sense for a brand like us.
• 1:01:11
  SPEAKER_01: But again, it's it's not really the right fit.
• 1:01:14
  SPEAKER_01: And then as you keep going, like that's sort of beauty retail in the US in terms of brick and mortar.
• 1:01:19
  SPEAKER_01: Then you have your online, you have your Durham store, you have uh well, Amazon, of course, you have TikTok shop.
• 1:01:26
  SPEAKER_01: But it's just a very strange space, beauty retail in this country, because it's either like feast or famine, really.
• 1:01:32
  SPEAKER_01: Like, you know, you have these one-offs where it's like we love Bigelow and we do great at Bigelow, but we need 15 of them.
• 1:01:38
  SPEAKER_00: We were talking recently, it's like this year, the influx of brands at Sephora is like wild.
• 1:01:42
  SPEAKER_00: And the you have to wonder how is that sustainable even for the individual brands?
• 1:01:46
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, you have three products and this much shelf space to make that happen.
• 1:01:50
  SPEAKER_00: And the same time they brought you in, they brought in 17 other brands.
• 1:01:54
  SPEAKER_00: So how are you standing out?
• 1:01:55
  SPEAKER_00: And in an age of social media, it really is a you're really succeeding in that space if you have prior hype to the brand before getting into the brick and mortar.
• 1:02:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, like Road, for example.
• 1:02:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, of course.
• 1:02:06
  SPEAKER_00: Or POV.
• 1:02:08
  SPEAKER_00: And talking to investors, a lot of them are like, retail's not the move right now.
• 1:02:13
  SPEAKER_00: Like, we don't want to invest in these brands because uh the margins, which I mean, we talk about Sephora margins, it's like 60, 70% now.
• 1:02:20
  SPEAKER_00: And to Angela's point, you are then still as a brand paying for everything else you need to succeed in that space, sink or swim.
• 1:02:27
  SPEAKER_03: So, yeah, when it comes down to it, a lot of the time you're not making money.
• 1:02:30
  SPEAKER_03: And it's you're not making money.
• 1:02:31
  SPEAKER_00: And as the investor, they're like, well, if we're not gonna if the brand is probably gonna end up shuddering after this and we're not gonna see a chance in profit, like there's no point in going to retail.
• 1:02:38
  SPEAKER_00: So then then when you have the Amazon and TikTok shops that have proven very profitable.
• 1:02:43
  SPEAKER_00: Are you on both?
• 1:02:44
  SPEAKER_01: Either so we are on TikTok shop, but it's not something we've ever um dove into deeply.
• 1:02:52
  SPEAKER_01: So, like, we will get a handful of sales and we've had a handful of sales, but it's not, it is not our bread and butter, it's just something we have.
• 1:02:58
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, Amazon's actually new for us.
• 1:03:00
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, we are working with a retail partner who has us on because we knew again, same thing, to succeed on Amazon, we either needed to go in with a retail partner that understands the ins and outs of Amazon, or we need to hire a separate contracting company that would like actually do it for us.
• 1:03:16
  SPEAKER_01: This company came to us again, got a great contract.
• 1:03:19
  SPEAKER_01: They were really straightforward and lovely to work with.
• 1:03:21
  SPEAKER_01: And that's been truly two months old at this point.
• 1:03:25
  SPEAKER_01: So it's very, very, very new for us.
• 1:03:27
  SPEAKER_01: But um we felt like it was sort of a need at this point with the brand, again, for discovery, because that is sort of people are still going to Amazon and they are still going to TikTok shop.
• 1:03:39
  SPEAKER_01: I think Amazon's the same way.
• 1:03:40
  SPEAKER_01: You know, TikTok is really interesting because they you have to subscribe to their terms and like return policy and shipping policy and all these very, very specific things.
• 1:03:52
  SPEAKER_01: And they try to like really strong arm brands into doing something really weird, like at the very beginning of this year.
• 1:03:59
  SPEAKER_01: And we were like, oh, we have to get out of TikTok shop then.
• 1:04:01
  SPEAKER_01: And it was like it had to be done.
• 1:04:03
  SPEAKER_01: You had to like ship some inventory to a specific warehouse.
• 1:04:06
  SPEAKER_01: It was almost like a fulfilled by Amazon, but a TikTok situation.
• 1:04:09
  SPEAKER_01: And I think because brands pushed back and started dropping like flies, they were like, Oh, no, no, we're not, we're not doing that anymore.
• 1:04:15
  SPEAKER_01: We're just kidding.
• 1:04:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, of course.
• 1:04:16
  SPEAKER_01: So, yeah, it's it's been an interesting.
• 1:04:19
  SPEAKER_01: No, that it's very strange.
• 1:04:20
  SPEAKER_01: Do you buy anything on TikTok shop?
• 1:04:22
  SPEAKER_03: I have.
• 1:04:22
  SPEAKER_03: I bought one thing.
• 1:04:23
  SPEAKER_03: No, I've bought several things just because sometimes it's like all comparison shop and I do look there for certain things.
• 1:04:31
  SPEAKER_03: And sometimes it's like, oh, buying from a retailer versus buying on TikTok shop.
• 1:04:37
  SPEAKER_03: Technically, you're buying directly from the brand.
• 1:04:39
  SPEAKER_03: It depends.
• 1:04:41
  SPEAKER_03: They do have fulfillment centers where they invite some brands in, but for instance, my brand, we're on TikTok shop, and it's like if you place an order there, it comes to me.
• 1:04:51
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 1:04:51
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:04:52
  SPEAKER_03: Literally to this facility right here, and we ship your order.
• 1:04:56
  SPEAKER_03: So um, yeah, I mean, I just feel like it's another channel, and sometimes TikTok does provide they're trying to make it grow right now, so they're incentivizing people to buy there by providing discounts that it's like the brand's not giving you that discount.
• 1:05:12
  SPEAKER_03: TikTok is like reimbursing the brand for the difference in price.
• 1:05:16
  SPEAKER_03: So I'm like, okay, I'll buy from there if I get a coupon code, and that means I'm gonna save money and this indie brand is gonna succeed or something.
• 1:05:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:05:27
  SPEAKER_01: I have purchased um a Christmas like snow globe thing.
• 1:05:32
  SPEAKER_01: You love Christmas.
• 1:05:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I told you I do.
• 1:05:34
  SPEAKER_01: I told you I do.
• 1:05:35
  SPEAKER_01: But no, it's I I this conversation doesn't actually ever go anywhere because that is the state of beauty retail right now in this country.
• 1:05:41
  SPEAKER_01: But it's really interesting to me because when you start thinking about it, it's not depressing.
• 1:05:45
  SPEAKER_01: I just don't see, and then people are like, well, is it better in the UK?
• 1:05:49
  SPEAKER_01: Not necessarily, but there are certain stores.
• 1:05:51
  SPEAKER_01: Like I think Space NK is a granted, obviously, the United Kingdom is also a smaller country, but Space NK, I think, is a beautiful retailer.
• 1:05:59
  SPEAKER_01: Uh With, you know, a handful of stores.
• 1:06:02
  SPEAKER_01: I think they do it really well.
• 1:06:04
  SPEAKER_01: I think their selection is really well.
• 1:06:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um, they also like even Liberty of London, like one-offs, where it's still one store, but I think there's at least good enough volume there.
• 1:06:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I think the way they present brands is different.
• 1:06:15
  SPEAKER_01: I do, I'm still, I mean, we've talked about my age, the whole uh conversation, but I miss the old days of Nordstrom where like you went in and like there was the Kate Somerville counter and the like to the point of like, and I I don't know the non-Sophora Ulta models of things.
• 1:06:30
  SPEAKER_00: Like the Sephora Ulta margins were so high that I feel like a lot of brands did kind of turn their heads back towards like what are these apartment stores doing?
• 1:06:37
  SPEAKER_00: So, like a Nordstrom beauty, Loki had a resurgence.
• 1:06:40
  SPEAKER_00: JCPenney had a moment where like a lot of the indie brands didn't do well in the big Oh really?
• 1:06:45
  SPEAKER_00: I my husband was shopping at was it JC Penny?
• 1:06:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, JC Penny in Grand Junction, Colorado.
• 1:06:51
  SPEAKER_00: And he was sending me all these brands, and I'm like, I thought that brand like Loki closed down.
• 1:06:54
  SPEAKER_00: But he's like, No, they're here at Penny's, apparently.
• 1:06:56
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, wow.
• 1:06:56
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of really interesting brands.
• 1:06:57
  SPEAKER_00: It just, I guess, could not cut it in like the Ulta spacious core space.
• 1:07:01
  SPEAKER_00: So I don't know what the margins look like in those capacities.
• 1:07:03
  SPEAKER_00: And in Middle America, an Ulta, a pennies, a Coles.
• 1:07:06
  SPEAKER_00: Coals they still dominate.
• 1:07:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's that's a great point, actually.
• 1:07:11
  SPEAKER_00: Uh now seeing everyone go to Costco as well.
• 1:07:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, Costco, yeah, for sure.
• 1:07:15
  SPEAKER_00: Think about it.
• 1:07:16
  SPEAKER_00: You get bulk beauty products and dollar hot dogs.
• 1:07:19
  SPEAKER_01: Ramone loves a hot dog.
• 1:07:20
  SPEAKER_00: I love a hot dog.
• 1:07:21
  SPEAKER_03: Don't we all?
• 1:07:22
  SPEAKER_00: Don't we all?
• 1:07:24
  SPEAKER_03: Don't I actually ate a hot dog yesterday and I thought of you?
• 1:07:27
  SPEAKER_00: You didn't take a picture of it?
• 1:07:28
  SPEAKER_00: Intend it to me.
• 1:07:29
  SPEAKER_03: Sorry, it was like I was at the Alamo Draft House, so it was like dark in the movie, and I didn't want to disturb fake friend.
• 1:07:36
  SPEAKER_01: Wait, Seattle.
• 1:07:38
  SPEAKER_01: Did you ever go to deep dive?
• 1:07:39
  SPEAKER_01: It was a bar that was under the Amazon balls.
• 1:07:44
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 1:07:45
  SPEAKER_00: Wait, did we go to deep?
• 1:07:46
  SPEAKER_00: No, we didn't go to deep dive.
• 1:07:46
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I'm talking about?
• 1:07:47
  SPEAKER_01: The like the spheres.
• 1:07:49
  SPEAKER_00: The Amazon balls.
• 1:07:50
  SPEAKER_00: The under the balls.
• 1:07:51
  SPEAKER_00: They're called the spheres.
• 1:07:52
  SPEAKER_01: It's called the taint.
• 1:07:55
  SPEAKER_01: You know the bar under Amazon's Taint?
• 1:07:57
  SPEAKER_00: Taint under the balls, just where the deep dive is.
• 1:07:58
  SPEAKER_01: A bar slash sort of restaurant by Renee Erickson, who did Boat Street, Whalewind's, uh, Walrus and Carpenter in Seattle.
• 1:08:04
  SPEAKER_01: Like she's my favorite chef.
• 1:08:06
  SPEAKER_01: But they had the most beautiful, and still do, I believe, hot dog there.
• 1:08:09
  SPEAKER_01: It's just it's so beautiful.
• 1:08:11
  SPEAKER_00: We've we've all seen a beautiful hot dog, haven't we?
• 1:08:13
  SPEAKER_01: And it's it's a beautiful hot dog.
• 1:08:15
  SPEAKER_00: What's on it?
• 1:08:16
  SPEAKER_01: Uh she wants details.
• 1:08:19
  SPEAKER_00: I have a photo of the hot dog.
• 1:08:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, because I take photos of hot dogs.
• 1:08:24
  SPEAKER_01: He he didn't.
• 1:08:24
  SPEAKER_00: It's on his Explore page as well.
• 1:08:26
  SPEAKER_01: It's it probably is on my Explore page.
• 1:08:29
  SPEAKER_03: Speaking of the algorithm, the amount of hot dog content I'm being served on stream right now because of our DMs is crazy.
• 1:08:36
  SPEAKER_01: Wait, so I didn't know you had.
• 1:08:38
  SPEAKER_01: Do you require your friends to take photos of hot dogs?
• 1:08:40
  SPEAKER_00: No, it's like a thing that doesn't get spoken about very often.
• 1:08:43
  SPEAKER_00: I love hot dogs.
• 1:08:45
  SPEAKER_03: The last time I had one, I did, I did send Ramona a photo.
• 1:08:48
  unknown: Yeah.
• 1:08:49
  SPEAKER_03: At the Robin concert, aka Silicole Central.
• 1:08:52
  SPEAKER_00: Silicole Central.
• 1:08:54
  SPEAKER_00: Do you know about that?
• 1:08:55
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 1:08:56
  SPEAKER_00: We'll talk about that after.
• 1:08:57
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 1:08:57
  SPEAKER_00: No, but I love hot dogs.
• 1:08:59
  SPEAKER_00: My husband's biggest ike about me is that I will take a hot dog.
• 1:09:02
  SPEAKER_00: Oh first of all, I just want you to understand I am Puerto Rican.
• 1:09:04
  SPEAKER_00: I grew up in rough circumstances.
• 1:09:06
  SPEAKER_00: I'll take a hot dog and I'll chop it up and then I'll microwave it for 30 seconds and I'll cover it in ketchup.
• 1:09:11
  SPEAKER_00: That's a snack.
• 1:09:12
  SPEAKER_01: That's delicious.
• 1:09:13
  SPEAKER_00: It's delicious.
• 1:09:14
  SPEAKER_00: He's like, at least saute it.
• 1:09:15
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, that takes too long.
• 1:09:17
  SPEAKER_01: I would do the same actually, but I would do mustard as opposed to mustard.
• 1:09:20
  SPEAKER_03: Mustard, yeah.
• 1:09:21
  SPEAKER_03: Mustard is the way to go.
• 1:09:23
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know.
• 1:09:23
  SPEAKER_03: It's just the New Yorker and me.
• 1:09:26
  SPEAKER_01: I do, I do, I love mustard.
• 1:09:28
  SPEAKER_00: And I love a hot dog.
• 1:09:29
  SPEAKER_00: Any details on the hot dog?
• 1:09:31
  SPEAKER_01: Sorry, I no, I try, I could, I thought I could remember a random like month and year, but I couldn't.
• 1:09:36
  SPEAKER_01: And then I just try to search hot dog and other hot dogs came up, but not period.
• 1:09:42
  SPEAKER_01: But not the one.
• 1:09:43
  SPEAKER_01: But it was there was caviar involved, caviar's on top, and like pickled onions, and no, it's it's really good.
• 1:09:49
  SPEAKER_01: I'll when we have time afterwards, I'll show it to you.
• 1:09:51
  SPEAKER_01: But if you ever go back to Amazon's Taint and Balls, uh, it's the bar that's under that.
• 1:09:56
  SPEAKER_00: Which unironically, I do go back too often.
• 1:09:58
  SPEAKER_00: But that being said, and the boss, and the boss.
• 1:10:03
  SPEAKER_00: I'm sure you do.
• 1:10:04
  SPEAKER_00: But that being said, as you come to the end of this episode, Jordan, having had a brand for so long and having had iterations and generations of different products, Sophie's choice, what is your favorite products in your line right now?
• 1:10:17
  SPEAKER_01: There's there's three products I definitely pay play favorite children.
• 1:10:22
  SPEAKER_01: Right now, it's October, November, I would say moisture recovery cream.
• 1:10:25
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 1:10:26
  SPEAKER_01: Uh my three products are Matic Cream Cleanser, Moisture Recovery Cream, and the Antioxidant Treatment Emulsion.
• 1:10:31
  SPEAKER_01: Those are sort of things that are always in my uh rotation.
• 1:10:35
  SPEAKER_01: And so it just depends seasonally.
• 1:10:36
  SPEAKER_01: But right now, so choice would be moisture recovery cream.
• 1:10:39
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 1:10:39
  SPEAKER_01: I absolutely play favorites.
• 1:10:41
  SPEAKER_03: That's interesting.
• 1:10:42
  SPEAKER_03: I feel like your brand is really known for cleansers.
• 1:10:45
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:10:45
  SPEAKER_03: And it's funny because like that's usually not the case for most brands.
• 1:10:50
  SPEAKER_01: No, it's it's actually for some reason this year in particular, 70, it might be like 68%, but 70% of our sales are just one product, the after show cleanser.
• 1:11:01
  SPEAKER_01: And then if you bring in the matinee gel cleanser and moisture recovery cream, that does almost 90% of our sales just in three products.
• 1:11:08
  SPEAKER_01: Which is not original.
• 1:11:09
  SPEAKER_01: Every brand have, you know, every brand has their hero product and then like one or two other things that carry it.
• 1:11:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but it's been very interesting.
• 1:11:16
  SPEAKER_01: So our top five sellers are our three cleansers and our two moisturizers.
• 1:11:20
  SPEAKER_00: I say the cream cleanser, matinee cream cleanser.
• 1:11:23
  SPEAKER_03: But you're you're you're providing the the base of the skincare routine, right?
• 1:11:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, which is which is the philosophy and is the goal.
• 1:11:30
  SPEAKER_01: So you know, I mean the only other thing that you could add there is a sunscreen, but uh Yes, which I've which I've talked about why we don't, which I was gonna talk about earlier too, but I'm not gonna talk about it.
• 1:11:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:11:40
  SPEAKER_01: Director's cut.
• 1:11:40
  SPEAKER_03: Do y'all still make the facial spray?
• 1:11:42
  SPEAKER_03: We do.
• 1:11:43
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so I would recommend that one too if y'all are gonna check out the brand.
• 1:11:47
  SPEAKER_03: Do you have any other favorites?
• 1:11:48
  SPEAKER_00: For me, it's the antioxidant emulsion.
• 1:11:50
  SPEAKER_00: That's one of my favorite, favorite, favorite products from the that in the cream cleanser.
• 1:11:53
  SPEAKER_00: But it's I've talked to Jordan about this because I'm like, the formulation for that is just so comprehensive, so robust.
• 1:11:58
  SPEAKER_00: And he's like, I let the chemist go crazy for that one.
• 1:12:01
  SPEAKER_00: It's just a very great antioxidant-focused product and a nice, you don't see an emulsion texture like that for that kind of product.
• 1:12:07
  SPEAKER_01: It was, I actually loved creating that because I went in with a very specific idea, but not specific details in terms of like ingredients and putting it together.
• 1:12:16
  SPEAKER_01: And Ada, our chemist, was she was fantastic with it and like went to town and I told her why I was creating it, what who I wanted it for, you know, what what the the hole was on the market, um, what holes we wanted to fill.
• 1:12:32
  SPEAKER_01: I just I felt like that was appropriate to put in.
• 1:12:34
  unknown: Thank you.
• 1:12:35
  SPEAKER_03: Um, also a shout out to the moisture recovery cream, a dermanche's winner.
• 1:12:41
  SPEAKER_00: Actually, my husband's favorite product from you guys, too.
• 1:12:44
  SPEAKER_03: Great for um those of you in the northern hemisphere with us, colder months coming in.
• 1:12:51
  SPEAKER_03: It's a really nice rich moisturizer.
• 1:12:52
  SPEAKER_03: I've used it all over my body too.
• 1:12:54
  SPEAKER_03: Y'all sent us the jumbo size once, and I was like slugged up.
• 1:12:59
  SPEAKER_01: It's actually my favorite like foot cream and like hand cream.
• 1:13:02
  SPEAKER_01: It's so like it really.
• 1:13:04
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's very bougie to use that as that, but it's my brand.
• 1:13:08
  SPEAKER_01: I can do it.
• 1:13:08
  SPEAKER_03: Same thing for your brand.
• 1:13:09
  SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
• 1:13:10
  SPEAKER_03: Good enough for your face, strong enough for your body.
• 1:13:13
  SPEAKER_03: That's right.
• 1:13:14
  SPEAKER_00: And you can find it at the Amazon Taint.
• 1:13:17
  SPEAKER_00: M-balls.
• 1:13:18
  SPEAKER_00: Mballs.
• 1:13:19
  SPEAKER_03: Jordan, um, if our listeners want to find you and your brand, where where can they find you?
• 1:13:26
  SPEAKER_01: Jordan Samuel Skin, Jordan SamuelSkin.com, Jordan Samuel Skin on Instagram, Jordan Samuel Skin on Facebook, Jordan Samuel Skin on TikTok.
• 1:13:33
  SPEAKER_00: What was Brandon?
• 1:13:34
  SPEAKER_01: Jordan Samuel Skin on YouTube.
• 1:13:35
  SPEAKER_00: One more time.
• 1:13:37
  SPEAKER_01: We keep it really easy.
• 1:13:39
  SPEAKER_01: Uh Jordan SamuelSkin.
• 1:13:40
  SPEAKER_04: Period.
• 1:13:42
  SPEAKER_00: That being said, thank you to our heavenly thoughty, Jordan Samuel, for coming to sit and chat with us.
• 1:13:48
  SPEAKER_00: Make sure you listen to this podcast everywhere.
• 1:13:50
  SPEAKER_00: Find podcasts are provided.
• 1:13:52
  SPEAKER_00: Give us five stars.
• 1:13:54
  SPEAKER_03: Subscribe if you haven't already so that we show up in your feed every week.
• 1:13:57
  SPEAKER_00: Notification on.
• 1:13:59
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks for listening, guys.
• 1:14:01
  SPEAKER_00: Bye.