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2: Vi bygger eget CRM & pratar designverktyg med AI · Skit om AI

• Jacob Kroon: Exciting with timer. Yeah, hey! We have to. Sebastian: Okay! Då är vi igång, Jekke! Very fun. It feels pretty good, think. It's a small, complicated week of in some way. don't know. It's hard to take on. You you do things that you don't really understand. There have been too many different threads to in, so I don't feel like I've had that structure in me. Jacob Kroon: ⁓ Mm-hmm. No, I get it. There's some fire Well, good. It's action, I must say. On the A.I. beat. We're crazy. Really fun. Sebastian: Hello. Mm. Mm. Mm-hmm. found a quote. Jacob Kroon: Yes, we have implemented a completely new CRM last year that became less good in my opinion. It's probably an incredibly powerful business system, but I think it was a too badly scrapped after what we did. So I got little feeling last week and made a completely new one. Completely based on what we have for ... Sebastian: See you then. Jacob Kroon: ⁓ That was fun. But now we haven't implemented it yet. But we are close, think. Sebastian: Okay. Wait, wait, now we have to pause here. So you mean you are on the and creating a whole own CD for the now? Jacob Kroon: ⁓ exactly. Sebastian: Okay, and you have been the lead to possibly switch to this CRM system, which you have developed yourself, despite that you have lot of and money in this other system, which is Monday, right? Okay, but I think we have to continue When we get into it, think we will continue. Give us more context, Jacky. Jacob Kroon: Yep. Yep. Monday, Yep. Sebastian: First of all, why did you change the series system from the beginning? Jacob Kroon: What we were looking for was have lot more reports. We wanted more specific reports and wanted to automate our workflow in a different way. And Monday is a very user-friendly system that has lot of If you this status there, it a new... objects or new objects there and then connect together and can create a lot of here and there about some fantastic, fantastic output of plugins that can build the system. But what became our challenge was that our most central or important function was a bit too bad and that is the debiting when we do our time logs. And only essential small things that make the system more complicated. When we work in project, often put up a top object and then have parts in each project. But each part can also down into more. like development, you want to set up servers, want do the Dittner and Datteln and then maybe you have a SEO optimization that you want to do so you want to down each part the to further parts so that you can tick them off after that. That went into Monday. Sebastian: Yes, exactly. it didn't on Monday. So to give you more concrete example from my perspective, if you that your communication office will deliver a new website to a company, then you a main project for that. The company X will have a new website. Check. Under that we create several different projects. Pre-studies, design choice, SEO optimization. Jacob Kroon: Mm. Mm. Mm. Sebastian: content control migration. ⁓ So we have several projects and in those projects there are small part tasks. And this could not Monday. Jacob Kroon: Migration can be anything. Mm. No, exactly. We had to do something called low level and high level boards. That means that in a high level you have more overview over the whole project and you can log in and see how you are against the estimate or when the deadline is. But then in a low level board you have to do these parts But the between high low level boards is... Sebastian: Ahem. Jacob Kroon: works like this. It's a bit unnecessary and difficult. And that's what I think our reports have become an administrative frustration. We've a very long time and assuring that what we debuting is correct. and times we're in are correct. And I thought that this had to be done by myself. So I sat down and built a whole new series based on what we need and it took like... one day. Sebastian: Well, you will continue to explain how did it and what you have built, but I'm just curious. If this was your most important, I would say, greatest value of changing the CRM system, is, getting control over the behavior, being to share projects and so on, how did you miss... It could be good for the one who chooses to listen to this. Jacob Kroon: Mmm. Sebastian: And can be good for me as How did you manage to miss out controlling the functionality in the choice of system when you made that evaluation? Jacob Kroon: Yeah, right? We did some evaluation and we had still mapped what we needed. And on paper it very good, what you read to and what they have function in In practice, we have been with it for while, we that it didn't as well as we thought. They are very hard, or very good at saying that we have automations that work this way. And then when it comes to the the automations working. Everything is as the is. So that... How should you have had a longer test? I think it's really hard with CRM system ⁓ to test everything that goes on early. I think it's really hard to cover all holes during a test period because all projects grow and even though you think you've thought of everything, you don't that. It's impossible to think of everything. Sebastian: And that confirms what is on the right now. You are at systems developed for a very broad customer flow. A CRM system can be to any industry. Then are these more niche business systems and CRM systems against specific industries. Jacob Kroon: Mm. Hmm Sebastian: Fine, then they might be little more tailored to what you do, but they are still adapted to several hundred other companies within the industry. So even though you feel like, well, we need these five of the hundred things that the system offers, then these five things can be just like that, maybe a little more convenient to handle or is behind lot of different buttons to adjust system properly. Jacob Kroon: Mm. Mm. ⁓ Mmm. Mmm. Sebastian: And that is the big challenge for existing SaaS products, I think. We have same experience of our CRM system, it works, but it is not adapted from our business. But what you later, that you may have a very difficult time going through all these steps during a test period. Jacob Kroon: ⁓ Mm. Night. Sebastian: The is the need is You can't separate everyone. Things you initially I think that will be the exact same challenge even if you now develop your own system. Do you what mean? It's best. No, no, no. You will encounter as many problems You are something that you believe and think is right. We need these things. It will be great. Develop it. I think that as soon as start using it, more things that say, this is this is it. advantage is that you can do something about it. Jacob Kroon: I we will face even more problems now. Or... less problems. Mm. Yes, that's exactly what I was going to That's what so incredibly nice about working in Claude or Loveable. We have adapted right after how I think, but if someone else comes from the and says, we want it like this, then it's a prompt. Or maybe one or two hours away if there is some advanced function that you want to It's so brutally easy. And it's to adapt so much. I that, just as you say, it will be difficult for existing large SaaS services like Monday to... ⁓ to compete with these scrapped, solid buildings that you can do now. I think it will be very difficult. And we already that Salesforce... ⁓ Salesforce has made a new platform where you just prompt directly there and adjust their CRM after the company. So they have completely changed. I think their... ⁓ Sebastian: ⁓ Jacob Kroon: Maybe you said this to me, but their old system was that paid a lot of consultants who went there to scratch your back. It costed several million and it still didn't well. Sebastian: We tested Salesforce ourselves, on the side. Our company, 40 employees, simple sales organization, needed basics but still a little more. And then we Salesforce because we thought it was a little modular, it's one of the biggest systems, we should be to integrate with the things we want. It could live long because it's a big system, have a good choice to take it. One, the Jacob Kroon: Mm. Mm. ⁓ Mm. Sebastian: It seemed cheap on paper, but as soon as you to add things, costed more. And two, as soon as you had to adjust an offer, or whatever, you needed an internal developer at that time. Or you to out these external consulting companies, which the only they did was develop on Salesforce as product. That industry is dead now. Or in a year, unfortunately. Jacob Kroon: ⁓ Mm. Yes, right? Sebastian: That's the most exposed industry. But it's both Salesforce and Hadspot have the same information. What they do is these systems that are so big, own so much data. To the big enterprise customers. And for big enterprise customers it's a hell. And leave that, export the They can't build a CRM as fast as you. They should work for 50,000 employees, 100,000 employees. Jacob Kroon: ⁓ Sebastian: So instead of losing the on the market that Salesforce does, or least on enterprise customers, that's my theory anyway, you to pivot and release MCPs, Model Context Protocols, for all types of data that you own as customer. an AI model like Claude or Codex or... Jacob Kroon: Mm. Sebastian: You name it can just jump in, directions, all of these things you can do with this MCP. Depending on what the demands, will be go in and pick up the data or write. And you can build any UI you want on that data. So basically they just their data now instead of selling an UI that you act in. It's pretty cool, Twist. Jacob Kroon: Mmm. Yes, really. It's fantastic to see how fast it goes. It's great for that they adapt. They will lose a lot of time. Sebastian: Yeah, I think so. I think so. But, but keep going. Jacob Kroon: What's happening to you? ⁓ Sebastian: I thought you should continue explaining what you have built, with what you have built, how it went and what makes the convinced that you might want to this way instead. Jacob Kroon: Our old system, Avasa, which we used before, had a built-in time log system. It was very good. It worked great. But their reports were... There weren't enough functions, so we didn't know there were. Sebastian: Mm-hmm. Jacob Kroon: We didn't that existed. We still don't But what I've is I've combined what we thought was great about Avasa and how the time log-in reports looked like with parts of how Monday works. So I merged that and... and the small holes that we will need to more overview of respective customer and how much we earn and much our investment is so that we can work more effectively with our tasks. So I will see if I have it somewhere here. I can try to show it. Sebastian: Mmm, can you tell it? While you're doing that, I can follow up on our little listener-skara on a handful of people. Our journey in how to make We're a new system called Reversi. We chose the we discussed in first podcast. And now we're recording this in both video and audio format. We actually did that on Teams as well, but here I it's more adapted. Jacob Kroon: No ⁓ Sebastian: We will, or I will try to this as a video and soundpod on Spotify and Apple Podcasts that have released videos if you're listening to one those platforms, maybe you can see this as video. I can't guarantee it. And I don't know the quality either. We'll see. Jacob Kroon: We'll see. This will be fun. It's like a learning curve. I feel that you have adjusted your speech more this time than last It feels like you listened very carefully to what we wrong last time and changed you. I done that. Sebastian: Do you what I've tried to adjust the most in my speech? Jacob Kroon: You don't eh or pauses with sound, right? Sebastian: Yeah, might be one thing, but, and I'm Hunni said this a number of times during this podcast as well, and is that I use LIXOM. And I have a problem with people who use LIXOM all the time when they talk. And then I and listened to our previous podcast and was like, no, that's not true! I do that all the time! So I've been my own worst enemy. Jacob Kroon: ⁓ Mm. ⁓ Sebastian: And then I that I had to take hold of life. and I'm really to think about it in this context now. Jacob Kroon: You're doing great Sebbe! Sebastian: Thank you, you, Jakob. Jacob Kroon: Fantastic! I made a custom version so you one fictive company which is my company. We can this, but can't you. I will just show you. Sebastian: I see your screen clear and clear as a sausage spade. Jacob Kroon: Fantastic. As you can here, have my work. It here that we want everything you do as a employee at us to leave. Here all your tasks will be there. And here there are some different choices. We have per customer and per deadline. So Jacob's company has all these underlying tasks active right now. Announcement, project management, updating of search engines and web changes and everything. Here can set different statuses and you can time. When you click on timing you can choose if you should have... You can to run a timer from when you start and then it off in the or manually. Here we can set up two hours of talking with Sebbe. And then save it and then this one up... I mean, it. Then we the report down here. Sebastian: Nice that you to for that. But before you go on now... It looks really good. Where do you work in this system? Or do you these tasks that are mine, they only from this system? Or do you tasks from other systems? Jacob Kroon: Mm. We're anything from another system right now. Everything will be here. So will start here on the pipeline. That you add a lead and then goes all way to the factoring at the end of the But we can go from my work to customers. And under customers we have two companies. Jakobs and Sebbes. And here see directly that we have three orders and one contract. So if we click up this rack we will get the same view. Sebastian: No. Jacob Kroon: And here is where you put up a new assignment. So we can do a new assignment here, so we see a new assignment. And then we a project. And then we will see the assignment. Sebes new web. Create. And there have Sebb's new website. We can put in an owner and a deadline that is on the 29th. And then we open up here. Then we have possibility to share the And here I have already done an automation that says that it will factorize you for this new website. So that it is prompted directly. But we can do this, project management. And then we shape. And then we development. And here we to this part where you might want to spice this up even more. And then can click up respectively and add a sub-object here that might be z up. Server. And then can put the owner of for respectiv. Sebastian: Can anyone go into some form of just... a queue? Say you haven't assigned those to Jakob now. And these setup servers and working with HTML structure is open. Then can anyone go into a queue and get and assign the tasks Or do you have to assign a team now as project manager or client? Jacob Kroon: Mm. Sebastian: and then they can see them first. They can? Okay, comes in the form of doing pipeline or something. Jacob Kroon: and else can. Yes, But now we will see if this has been We can add it. 10 hours. And this will also take 5. And 5. Then see that the development, it sums them down. So if I time 30 minutes here, it added to the top. Sebastian: Yes, sir. Cool. Mmm. Jacob Kroon: Top-up-duty so that you should never be to over time or at least it should be presented very smart and then you here that We have all these tasks here. And here can also And here I can even set the OK to factor. If I this OK to factor... I wonder if this is done. Yes, there it This is the part that I'm not really ready with yet. But I've made some drawings for the different types of services we sell, so it's very adapted after everything. With clear history, reporting, you can go in and see what hours on. Very detailed, so you can see exactly where. what we have done to make it for each customer and what kind of tasks. Very fun. See the proof. Yes, go. Hit me. Factoring. Sebastian: Next question. When you have generated a factor, I assume it generates its own design for that factor as Jacob Kroon: I'm back here. No, we don't We use Fort Knox for invoicing. So what we do is that we create only sub-plates for the economy so that they can copy over it to the invoices. So don't this automation today. There is a connection between Fort Knox that you can create, but... Sebastian: Mm. Okay. Jacob Kroon: I have not part of this project yet. Sebastian: But how many invoices would you you sent in a week? Jacob Kroon: We're probably about 30. Sebastian: then it's a big problem for the responsible to generate 30 invoices per week. It's a slight difference if we were have it, that sends 100-150 invoices per day. Jacob Kroon: ⁓ Sebastian: That would have tough. But yeah, it's just a thing you have prioritize and build. You will prioritize and build other things initially. Jacob Kroon: I Sebastian: Now I like... Do you that? Hell no. Well, getting time registration, project completion, all that, that's probably the most critical thing you with a CRM system to keep an on. That's what you should focus on. But possibility of building something true is entirely possible. Jacob Kroon: Yes, you can build on whatever you want without both these. That's what's so nice Sebastian: How do you think about databases for that? Where is your data Jacob Kroon: Super Bass. Sebastian: How do you set up security regulations in SuperBase? What you done there? Or what are you to Jacob Kroon: Mm. Right now I trust the prompts I make. I what the and what are the safety aspects. I open questions to the so I lead it to the answer I want. I want it to analyze on its own and see what the shortcomings are. But right now, we much to make sure that all RLS tables are locked. So that only logged in people can access the sensitive data for the customers. And is an incredibly important point that we will have to many turns on before we actually launch this. And then will connect developers who are at this. ⁓ So that we don't anything wrong, that's a big thing that... that you will have to when building with AI forward. What are the issues? Sebastian: Yeah, and now it's boring and stuff. You are in Spain and working right now. Here I in Sweden at my office while you in Spain and chilling. Jacob Kroon: Yes, of Great times. Now we're moving somewhere else. Yeah, so now it might sound little better. Sebastian: To continue with the track, that's the most important factor. are laws and requirements, depending on what you have for example ISO certifications, you are considered as NIS 2 or CIS, Cybersecurity... I don't remember. Jacob Kroon: Mm-hmm. ⁓ Hmm Sebastian: There are a lot of telmas, but if you listen to this you can search for CIS, NIS 2, ISO 27001 and all that. It's both creating code will require an inspection of code. Do you if we code the 4, we can't code in our own system. Then must be someone who externally examines and validates that code. So that it is approved to use it. Jacob Kroon: ⁓ Hmm. Mm-hmm. Sebastian: Out from GDPR, NIS 2, CIS, you name it. Jacob Kroon: Just a... Sebastian: But also for the company's safety, you have access to authentication against all types of data. We could bring in my colleague Jens, we are working on a project internally here. And he is responsible for that project. I'm crazy about seeing it all the time. ⁓ Jacob Kroon: Hmm. Ha ha ha. Sebastian: But he has really a in this, creating a database in a secure way, what layers of security you need, if a customer is receive certain data, a employee certain data, a boss certain data, everything is in same platform, how do you that it separated in a secure way, for example? We could bring Jens in the upcoming episode. Jacob Kroon: Mm. ⁓ That's really interesting. Sebastian: he can explain what he has learned and it can give some inspiration to you. Jacob Kroon: ⁓ I would really like to hear more about But how... Will you offer an external party where you secure the or do you that competence? Sebastian: We don't have the competence to inspect code. So we to put in extra competence to inspect the code we are Jacob Kroon: No, just stop. Mm. Sebastian: in this system that we will use publicly for customers and data. It's one thing if you're and labing with a little less your own project. But if you're going to a big CRM system, or if we're going to make a customer portal and an internal employee portal that collects data from several different systems, we have to make that a customer doesn't get internal data and so on. Jacob Kroon: Hmm. Mm. Mm. I'm sorry, I'm No. Mm. Sebastian: I've that now, and I've learned a lot. I'm building this and I have a better idea of which ones we might use to examine code, for example. I if you've checked it out yet, but we'll have to do that before we can launch the Jacob Kroon: ⁓ But I think I must have that, but what kind system are you going to Or what is it? Did you that? Sebastian: I have a customer and employee portal in one. So you make a CRM system. We will not make a CRM system initially. view, I absolutely that we will build a CRM on this portal. But the first thing we do is a database that cleans and structures data from several different systems. Jacob Kroon: ⁓ just that. Mm. No. Mm. ⁓ Sebastian: Our CRM system, our business management system, our business system where invoices, articles and such are, our e-commerce platform, our distributors, APIs, everything. So that portal will collect, in one log, everything that moves the in question. Invoices, order history, business history, agreements, services. Jacob Kroon: Hmm. Mm. Mm. Sebastian: You name it. And then you can turn it Then a employee can in, a seller or whoever it may be, in and see this customer. They have exactly all this. This is all their data collected. And we will also put some order flows in that portal that they can just talk to the other systems. So that's what we're going to do. And then, as I said, then can probably slowly slow down our 3RM system AppSales today, which is very generic. Jacob Kroon: cool. Sebastian: and can just export the into this database that cleans and structurates it from where the database should be and then we a serial system on it and run it. It's 99 % probability that we do that. Jacob Kroon: Yeah, that's exciting. Where can we read more about these requirements on the databases? Sebastian: ⁓ I check the code, Yeah... I think it's NIS 2 over Brab, with code... Jacob Kroon: ⁓ Do any of Sebastian: It's the security law that goes through that. I can say I could bring some more of this to the next episode we do. If we bring us again, then for example, could go through, among other things, think about database and why you build it the way you do. What he has learned so far. Again, everyone is so new to this. And then I will read a little more about the law of related to the carbon limit and which are included in it. Jacob Kroon: Mm. Mm. Mm. Sebastian: We have been more strict than you have, because we are IT infrastructure. Jacob Kroon: Mm. Okay, why do you that Yeah, right. Sebastian: So we have... Jacob Kroon: It's very important to know that part. For your company. And when you talk to customers. they get... Safety is, as we said earlier, it will be incredibly central to all your own buildings that are made forward when it's just... Playmates that make... Sebastian: Yes, absolutely. Yeah, people like us who building cool stuff but don't know anything about But it is like Then you will come to a point where AI will examine its own code and close these holes. Just what you talk about with Anthropics Cloud Mythos. Which is used by Google, OpenAI, Microsoft... Jacob Kroon: ⁓ Exactly. ⁓ Mythos. Sebastian: all of the big companies in Project Glasswing as they call it. They use mythos to find, identify and secure holes before announcing such a competent AI to public. That's what I mean, that in the long you might not need to super good security level on code screening because it is sufficiently validated that an AI in itself is surveyor. We don't that. Jacob Kroon: Mm. Mm-mm. No, but I think we with all certainty. I am convinced. Actually. Sebastian: But maybe they'll and maybe they'll come back. Yeah, yeah, possible. Very, very possible. Jacob Kroon: Hmm. Yeah, cool. So you that project going on. ⁓ We... Yeah. And... Several projects are on. At the same time, you showed how you do these automatic offers, recently. So it's going to the customer. We're to... Sebastian: That's project going on, and you'll it. Jacob Kroon: get to now also based on what we do. But we have a little more floating services that need a little more customer service. It's not as black and white. So I'm generating such function now and put in our designed and just populate them with information about respective service. And then you can go straight to the customer and get a sign. Sebastian: Hmm. Nice! It didn't much longer than I did. I did a pretty fast version of But that sounded really nice. That sounded really nice. Jacob Kroon: ⁓ Hmm? Yeah, that was instructive. I think it's so fun when you can say what kind result you want. And then learn something that you didn't know it was before. And then just apply it. Because I did some of this development project in Canva. So in Canva I tags. on these designed and shaped models which are then loaded up and then popularize this function based on where these tags are located. Sebastian: How do you that? Who do you you are? Jacob Kroon: You set rules in the platform that says that when this tag is there, you should enter this content. So the looks like two little blocks and then you the name of the with two more Sebastian: What kind of s*** Jacob Kroon: And then I've put them on top of the page so it knows what page And then I've them in so it knows where to put the Sebastian: Mm-hmm. Jacob Kroon: So it will be up to three tags per page so far. Sebastian: Hmm. Hmm. Jacob Kroon: So it was fun. Very fun. Sebastian: Yeah, cool. Really cool. You can take this so far. Now that we're talking about camma, you tried Claude Design? Jacob Kroon: ⁓ Sebastian: took it on data. Jacob Kroon: I think it's great. Sebastian: I just played with it, but what the hell? Jacob Kroon: Very good. I generated a prototype of a web and exported it to Clod. Then I tested the responsive mode. It has not been for responsiveness. Sebastian: Very good. Very, very good. Jacob Kroon: in the sketch. So when I a web sketch and downloaded it to mobile, it was chaos. So then I to re-send it so that Claude Code could fix the mobile appearance. It went really well, but I imagine that it I would like say that it something that should be by Claude. Sebastian: Mm-hmm. Right. Well, it feels like... ...Claw Design from a... ...market distribution perspective on a company is fantastic. You can build the entire graphic profile for the in Claw Design with the Claw Design. And then you can take inspiration from that. Jacob Kroon: ⁓ Sebastian: to cloud code to build the website or something that. You don't have to take the exact template, but here is the guideline on how our visual identity should look. Do you agree? Or create presentations or whatever it is, but you do it. But for a marketing department I think it's sobering to have it. But as you say, to use it as a scale for how an app should actually work. Jacob Kroon: Mm. Mm. ⁓ Sebastian: It's too early to say that the symbiosis between creating code and placebo looks doesn't really work. Jacob Kroon: No, not really. It will probably soon. We are doing another project with a company that has an app. We have received all their Figma files for this app and we are to redesign it to their new graphic profile. We will put it in the and we have fed the box with their visual identity. Sebastian: Hmm. Jacob Kroon: And then it just applies this on these different screens in the So that you can see it with automation. And then you get an file that you can then sit and fine-tune yourself. So that our process is that we put it in the box gets to the first generation and then the form makers can sit and fine-tune in end. So it becomes a... ...figma. Sebastian: What do adjust them? Okay, just that. Just that. Hmm. Jobba nu mycket, Figma. Jacob Kroon: Hmm. Yeah... Hmm? ⁓ Sebastian: What would you say to those who are to all the systems we talked about Canva, Claw design, Figma, you name it. Can you help us separate? Canva is used and good in which scene would you say? Jacob Kroon: Almost all were signed there. Canva is a replacement for PowerPoint compared to Google Docs or Word or Pages in Apple. For all kinds of mind mapping. I their whiteboard function Where you structure projects from the visual. The whiteboard function is an infinite large table that you can... put in text or do these, what is it called, diagrams of different types. So that's great for planning, it's great for creating content for social media and announcements. Fantastic, it becomes a Photoshop, InDesign, editor. With very less advanced functions. It's easy for everyone to Figma is more advanced for... We mostly it for wireframes and web design sketches. And you can export to a developer file. So when a web design is done, you the developer file to the and they get a lot of information about spacing and pixels. pixels and type of average and how everything should be on the and sometimes they actually HTML which is super Sebastian: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Jacob Kroon: What was the third thing you said you would Sebastian: Well, was a clear design. What separates them from Figma and Kanda, you would say. Jacob Kroon: Hmm. I Claw Design has the possibility to create wireframes, but I don't think you can be of small details. I'm still very new there, it's possible that works. But are advanced possibilities in Figma where you can go into detail in a different way and be completely manual. When you're in a or a love ball or whatever, you too confident that AIN understands what they want to You become like... limited. Sebastian: Yes, exactly. The clear design is that you can go in and trim parts, so you can live in the material it creates, in, mark, write a comment or whatever, and then it can change that part. You can mark in and stuff like that. So it has become better, but difference is that you can't go in and draw something, adjust it yourself, but you can just mark and with natural language. Jacob Kroon: Hmm. Mm. Mm. Sebastian: But then you could use Claude Design or Claude with integration to Canva or Figma with natural language setting a foundation for what you want to It creates that file in Figma or Canva and then you can in and do the last fine details. ⁓ Jacob Kroon: Mmm. ⁓ ⁓ Exactly. Mm. Exactly. Sebastian: Yeah, but that's just how you can use those systems together. Then understand a more what integration can be good for. Jacob Kroon: Exactly, speed up the process enormously. What's so good about Claude Code and Claude Design is that you can feed it with info about how things should look and then it it. And becomes very, very good. Sebastian: ⁓ I'm new. Mm. Jacob Kroon: So you're a lot of ⁓ Sebastian: Yeah, a lot of I don't any more Not to my staff, not to myself. I, like it now, have used Cloud Code. It has its guidelines, skills, if you call it in this world. So when I asked it to do a presentation... Jacob Kroon: No. Right. Mm. Mm. Sebastian: I can just link to a supplier's website or some file I add or some print screen, write some text and it spots out a presentation that is interagable with two minutes uploaded on our employee portal that we today and then just go ahead run and it will be, in general, very small fixes I need to It's maybe one or two more and it's perfect. Jacob Kroon: ⁓ Mm. Mm. Sebastian: And it's fantastic. It's really nice. I think that's what's a bit difficult with this whole AI thing for many. You think you know lot of areas for it, but it's pretty hard to find very clear areas of quickly. and that sustainable, that used by everyone, that is used in a sustainable way, and not just one person owns it. All of that is pretty hard to I think many companies Sweden think that Copilot solves a lot of in Microsoft environment, but I'll be honest and say that as supplier and partner to Microsoft, we work a lot with such project implementations and customers, Copilot is so extreme. Jacob Kroon: Mm. Sebastian: limited in speed and competence if I compare it the other models that I test and use. Microsoft is extremely behind it. think the statistics out quite recently that 450 million users of Microsoft 365 Is it between 3 and 6 % if even that? I think it was 3.3 % who pay for Copilot license and use it. Jacob Kroon: Hmm. Mm. ⁓ Mm. Mhm. Sebastian: properly. Despite the they have changed they have their entire product to Copilot. have changed the logo type on Microsoft 365. It's called Microsoft 365 Copilot. It's in every damn app in Microsoft's But if you just compare with Copilot in Excel versus Claude in Excel, you can use Claude in an Excel file. So of the tests I've done, Jacob Kroon: ⁓ Hmm. Hmm. Sebastian: and faster than a K-PILT. Jacob Kroon: But is it copilot? The problem is that it's integrated in all Microsoft's apps, but then it's also safe. Sebastian: Yes, exactly. I've been bit more on this now, how it differentiates. Microsoft has something called Microsoft Graph. It's really how your data, or company data, stays within a certain ecosystem, your own servers, that you only give access to, and depending on... What rights I have against what you have in the same Microsoft environment, I can see things and you can see things, but we can't see exactly the same things. Then AI can train on the data that is there, get to that data based on what I have on, index it all the time. problem is that it is so extremely slow at indexing. Searching rights can't do and perform so much on that data. Jacob Kroon: Hmm. Sebastian: And I started looking at how you can maybe implement Perplexity or Cloud for real in your Microsoft ecosystem. Because you will still want to work with these apps, you will want have the there. And it feels like it's possible. What I'm stuck on is with certain functions, certain types of searches you do, if I may say so. Jacob Kroon: ⁓ Sebastian: then it the data it in an isolated environment, leaves it, analyzes it and back with an answer. Not always. But in some advanced searches it that. And then that data doesn't to the EU, but to the CHIA or the US and then the EU risk is still there. Jacob Kroon: Right. Yeah. Right. No. Exactly. Sebastian: And that's you don't want. And then we'll hit the bell. Jacob Kroon: It feels like this is a natural round-up of this episode. Or what do Sebastian: That's good for sure. That's right. Jacob Kroon: We have been for almost an hour now. It goes fast when you talk AI. As fast as development goes forward. What have we learned today? I learned a lot about the safety aspect. That was a I was new to. Sebastian: Yeah, that's good. That's good. Jacob Kroon: It's really interesting to hear. I'll look into Sebastian: Yeah, we might bring Jan back in the next episode, he can tell you about that. He knows than I do. Yeah, that's good. I learned more about the integrations and functions in design, clod, figma, canva, understand those things. I learned little more about... Jacob Kroon: Mm. Hmm. Sebastian: why you choose the or not and why you move forward. was interesting to hear about your journey with CRM and that you suddenly choose to develop your own. That it has been prioritized. Jacob Kroon: ⁓ It wasn't a decision taken from board, it was just me who was frustrated and thought I could do better on Sebastian: Okay. That's good. And that's what you want You want to employees be creative, a safe way. You don't want to employees full access to all data and play with it. But to build mock-ups like you have done now on how to act and build theoretical flows. That's what want employees to do. It's just fun. It's just good. No, you... Jacob Kroon: No. Mm. Mm. as long as it can be and it is Sebastian: Well, you don't want to waste your working hours on fictional things you think are valuable. I think we should do an episode where we talk about the structure before you choose to develop something. Jacob Kroon: No. Sebastian: What do you need to check out before you choose to develop something? What purpose, what value, what usability is there? What regulating factors are there? Costs, safety and so on. Before you waste a lot of on it. That's I like to Jacob Kroon: Mm. Mm. ⁓ Yeah, is it next? We said we were to talk about APIs today, but were no APIs at all. I don't think we even mentioned it. Sebastian: No, but... Yeah, we mentioned MCP instead, not APG. And MCP and APG will be one episode, I That we're about. But, we're going to it now, and then we'll see what the next topic will If it will Jens and security coding, or if it will API MCP, or if it will be... How you start thinking before you build a project. Exactly. We'll see. Jacob Kroon: ⁓ ⁓ Pre-studies. We'll it as it comes. We'll see what we can Maybe we'll do it on Wednesday next week. Sebastian: It's awesome. You Wednesday next week lunch time, shall we do that? Jacob Kroon: And we will see, brah. Sebastian: Well, then we'll on you. Good, Jekke! Then you'll get to Spain! Jacob Kroon: Fantastic! Nice! Yes, I will do that. 100 % See you! Bye! Sebastian: Do it. See you. Bye.