Latest / Pod Save America / "Let them eat crudité."

Transcript

"Let them eat crudité." · Pod Save America

• 0:20
  Speaker 1: Welcome to Pod Save America. I'm Jon Favreau.
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: I'm Dan Pfeiffer.
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: On today's show, the Inflation Reduction Act is law. Liz
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: Cheney is defeated. Donald Trump is still under investigation. And Dr.
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: Oz is still looking for crudite. Then I chat with
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: filmmaker Alex Holder, whose documentary about Trump's final days in
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: office was subpoenaed by the January 6th committee. So that's fun.
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: But first, Crooked's new podcast, Dare We Say, is officially here.
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: In the first episode, out now, best friends Josie Tota,
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: Alicia Pasqual-Pena, and Yasmin Hamidi give you 10 hilarious tips
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: on how to celebrate your birthday. Don't miss it. It's
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: a fantastic show. New episodes of Dare We Say drop
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: every Thursday wherever you get your podcasts. Also, we got
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: another announcement, Dan. You already know all of us that
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: we're huge fans of Kari Yuma's shoes. I wear them
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: all the time. Been wearing them for years and years
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: and years. The only shoes that I wear. Now, we
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: are excited to announce that Crooked and Kari Yuma have
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: collaborated on two awesome pairs of shoes that listeners of
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: Pod Save America will love. You can order your pairs
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: today in the Crooked store. And as always, a portion
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: of the proceeds from these shoes and any item you
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: buy in our store goes to Vote Riders, the leading
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: organization focused on voter ID. So one design features an
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: I voted sticker that's all over the shoe. And one
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: is a sleek white pair that says no steps back
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: on the side that I am wearing right now. I
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: wore it in Nashville or these shoes in Nashville or
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: in Tennessee. They're fantastic. Check them out. Claim your pair
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: at crooked.com slash kicks. Dan, have you gotten your pair yet?
• 1:58
  Speaker 2: No, I check the mail every day. It doesn't arrive.
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: Someone send Dan a pair of humans.
• 2:05
  Speaker 2: I would wear them and I would actually prove it
• 2:07
  Speaker 2: by showing them on camera. Unlike you, who could be wearing.
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: I mean, I can't get my, well.
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: You're, you're, you're over 40 now. It's a, it's flexibility.
• 2:15
  Speaker 2: It's the first thing to go.
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: I skipped leg day.
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: Okay. They panned out to see if they could get
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: your shoes. No such luck.
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: Oh, No such luck at the table. Anyway, I'm wearing them,
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: I promise. All right, let's get to the news. Hours
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: after Joe Biden signed a bill that will lower the
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: cost of healthcare and prescription drugs, crack down on billionaire
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: tax cheats, and do more to fight climate change than
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: any government has in history. Here was a headline in
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: the New York Times. Even on Biden's big day, he's
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: still in Trump's long shadow. Subhead, for the sitting president,
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: Even a triumphant ceremony to sign major domestic legislation can
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: hardly break through the nonstop attention on his predecessor. Dan
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: just took a deep breath. I don't know if the
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: sigh came through in the audio, but there's a deep breath. Dan,
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: you want to give a quick take appreciator rating before
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: we dive in?
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: The scale does not go high enough for this.
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: I mean, when you saw the headline, we knew who
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: the author was, right? We knew who the writer was.
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: It was a Peter Baker special.
• 3:25
  Speaker 2: Yes. Look, Peter Baker is a very, very smart guy.
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: He is probably, if not one of the most respected
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: reporters in Washington. He's been around for a very long time.
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: He stars in the documentary that I'm about to interview
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: Alex Holder about. He's in Alex's documentary.
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: Did he storm the Capitol?
• 3:44
  Speaker 3: No.
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: Surprise. He's one of the, one of the people interviewed
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: quite a bit. Yeah.
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: He, but any, the only way that I think someone
• 3:58
  Speaker 2: as smart as Peter Baker could write a story, this
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: obviously stupid is two possibilities. One, his brain briefly left
• 4:04
  Speaker 2: his body. That can happen too. This was a very
• 4:07
  Speaker 2: specific and devious plot to murder me specifically by setting
• 4:10
  Speaker 2: my blood pressure skyrocketing through the moon.
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: I told Dan, Dan had this somewhere in the outline
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: and I was like, I think we should just start
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: with this. And Dan said that there was not enough
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: coffee to get himself ready for this to start with
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: this take.
• 4:28
  Speaker 4: Yes.
• 4:29
  Speaker 2: I am on a one coffee a day regimen these
• 4:31
  Speaker 2: days and I went up to one and a half
• 4:33
  Speaker 2: coffee just to be fully prepared for this moment. So
• 4:36
  Speaker 2: be prepared. I know we don't want to go down
• 4:40
  Speaker 2: a rabbit hole here, but I just want to say
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: that Nothing makes me more crazy than the media passively
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: covering the things the media has control over. This is
• 4:52
  Speaker 2: a story about Donald Trump overshadowing Joe Biden written by
• 4:58
  Speaker 2: the people who are covering Donald Trump and forcing him
• 5:01
  Speaker 2: to overshadow Joe Biden. And they are proving the point
• 5:04
  Speaker 2: of the article by writing a story about Trump overshadowing
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: Joe Biden, therefore overshadowing Joe Biden on his big day
• 5:12
  Speaker 2: on that day. Like, you people have agency here. He
• 5:15
  Speaker 2: doesn't have to overshadow him. That's a choice you made.
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: It'd be like if Peter Baker went out and sprayed
• 5:21
  Speaker 2: graffiti on the White House and then wrote a story
• 5:23
  Speaker 2: about vandalism afflicting the Biden administration.
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: It's like, you did it.
• 5:26
  Speaker 2: You're responsible for this.
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: So I want to come to the defense of my
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: friend and colleague, Peter Baker. I'm a serious journalist. No,
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: but in all seriousness, I want to start with the
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: actual challenge here for the Biden administration, because while it
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: pains me deeply to admit that Peter Baker has a point,
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: the news, the story, that particular story, of course, ridiculous,
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: of course, right? But going forward, the news tends to
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: cover what's new. There won't be many more developments in
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: the Inflation Reduction Act story. It will no longer be new.
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: We've got the passage. We've got the signing ceremony, maybe
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: a celebration here and there. Then it's over. There are
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: constant developments in the Trump did crime story. We are
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: going to cover them next. We're not covering them first
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: because we have agency, Dan. We're going to talk about
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: the Inflation Reduction Act first. But how do Democrats in
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: the White House make sure people know what's in this
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: bill and keep this story alive, even though the media
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: will not be covering it for much longer? Yeah, I.
• 6:38
  Speaker 2: You are correct that there is a kernel, there is
• 6:40
  Speaker 2: a reality at the core of this Peter Baker story,
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: which is Donald Trump is omnipresent. To date, Biden has
• 6:48
  Speaker 2: had trouble breaking through. Those two things are true. Like
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: I said, just a little self-examination would have really benefited
• 6:55
  Speaker 2: that story. But there is a challenge for the White House.
• 7:01
  Speaker 2: And so the question is, this was a huge accomplishment.
• 7:04
  Speaker 2: How do you let people know about your huge accomplishment
• 7:05
  Speaker 2: in time to have them vote for with that accomplishment
• 7:10
  Speaker 2: in mind in November. And so Jenna Malley Dillon, who
• 7:14
  Speaker 2: was Biden's campaign manager and the White House deputy chief
• 7:15
  Speaker 2: of staff, and Anita Dunn, who's their senior advisor and
• 7:18
  Speaker 2: sort of like messaging guru, wrote this memo to Ron
• 7:20
  Speaker 2: Klain that found its way, I'm sure not by accident
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: at all, into Politico. And they list a whole bunch
• 7:26
  Speaker 2: of things they're doing. It's a well thought out plan.
• 7:28
  Speaker 2: I have written many of those memos over the years.
• 7:33
  Speaker 2: Everything in their memo I would do. I think it's
• 7:34
  Speaker 2: the right thing to do.
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: These days you call them message box letters.
• 7:41
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: Now they're public.
• 7:43
  Speaker 4: Yes.
• 7:43
  Speaker 2: Instead of just leaking them to– I cut out the middleman, right?
• 7:46
  Speaker 2: Instead of giving it, slipping it to Ryan Lizza, I
• 7:49
  Speaker 2: just– I sent it out to the world, right? Call
• 7:52
  Speaker 2: me Mr.– the most transparent memo writer in history. Anyhow,
• 7:57
  Speaker 2: like I said, I'm over-caffeinated. There's like– I think to
• 8:01
  Speaker 2: the extent I have any advice on how– Democrats should
• 8:04
  Speaker 2: deal with this. And I think it's not just the
• 8:05
  Speaker 2: Biden White House. It's every Democrat on the ballot everywhere. House, Senate, governor,
• 8:10
  Speaker 2: dog catcher, whatever, is a couple of things. One, when
• 8:15
  Speaker 2: we think about our media strategy about how to get
• 8:18
  Speaker 2: people to know about this, we have to work backwards
• 8:20
  Speaker 2: from the audience. How do the people we need to
• 8:23
  Speaker 2: reach get the information? And the people we need to
• 8:25
  Speaker 2: reach are people who are largely deciding whether they're going
• 8:29
  Speaker 2: to vote or not, right? And I think one core
• 8:31
  Speaker 2: group here is young people. who we know care passionately
• 8:35
  Speaker 2: about climate. We also know they are the group that
• 8:38
  Speaker 2: has moved most dramatically against Biden since 2020 in terms
• 8:41
  Speaker 2: of approval rating. And so here you have this huge accomplishment.
• 8:44
  Speaker 2: How do you make sure they know? So you got
• 8:45
  Speaker 2: to work backwards based on where they get their information,
• 8:49
  Speaker 2: what media outlets, what platforms, what influencers, all of that.
• 8:55
  Speaker 2: Because what we know is that traditional, no amount of
• 9:00
  Speaker 2: like Rose Garden ceremonies, trips to Ohio to, you know,
• 9:05
  Speaker 2: unveil some grant that was, you know, that's covered by
• 9:08
  Speaker 2: the local news is going to reach those people. So
• 9:10
  Speaker 2: how do you reach them? Related to that, imperative number
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: two is come on Pots of America.
• 9:17
  Speaker 1: That is true.
• 9:19
  Speaker 3: I mean, it is.
• 9:20
  Speaker 2: I mean, that is the answer to all things.
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: Hey, Joe. Hey, Joe. Come on.
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: I'm somewhat kidding. I'm somewhat kidding, but not really, which
• 9:27
  Speaker 2: is In a world in which where you say the
• 9:29
  Speaker 2: media won't cover new things, you have to over index
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: your media strategy on outlets who will give you the
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: opportunity to tell your story on your terms to your people.
• 9:38
  Speaker 2: So whether that's Podsafe America, other progressive outlets, you have
• 9:42
  Speaker 2: to do that. Next is have to recognize that if
• 9:47
  Speaker 2: the media won't cover what happened in the past, What
• 9:50
  Speaker 2: their true bias is, the thing they thirst for, is conflict.
• 9:55
  Speaker 2: So don't talk about what you did, but spend just
• 9:59
  Speaker 2: as much time talking about what Republicans tried to stop
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: you from doing or what they voted against. And so
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: lean into it. And there is this report I read somewhere.
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: Or I made up in my head, I'm not entirely
• 10:07
  Speaker 2: sure which, and I'm sure someone with Google can figure
• 10:09
  Speaker 2: it out, that Biden's going to give a big speech
• 10:11
  Speaker 2: in a couple of weeks that is going to sort
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: of lay out the contrast for the midterm. So that's good.
• 10:15
  Speaker 2: And the last thing is, like Peter Baker, we have agency.
• 10:18
  Speaker 2: We can go tell people about it. We don't have
• 10:19
  Speaker 2: to wait for the New York Times. We can decide
• 10:21
  Speaker 2: whether Biden gets overshadowed by Trump by sharing with our friends,
• 10:24
  Speaker 2: posting on social, et cetera.
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: And I think it's key to figure out what the
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: most popular parts of the bill are, how to talk
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: about the bill, right? Like I've struggled with this too.
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: It's the biggest investment in climate change in history. But
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: when you look at, Navigator Research has been pulling out
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: this morning on the most popular parts of the bill,
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: and it's very simple and not very sexy. Lowering healthcare costs,
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: lowering prescription drug costs, lowering energy bills, lowering families' energy
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: bills by $ 1, 800, which is what the bill will do,
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: is more popular and more effective than talking about sweeping
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: climate action. Now, sweeping climate action and the biggest climate
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: investment ever, you know, that could be more effective with
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: some of the younger voters that you were just talking about.
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: But I do think for most people in the country
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: hearing that these investments in clean energy are actually going
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: to lower their energy bills because clean energy is cheaper
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: than dirty energy at this point is going to make
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: a big difference with people. But look, I think it's
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: a huge challenge. I All the focus groups I did
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: for the wilderness were before the Inflation Reduction Act passed,
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: except for the last one I just did in Atlanta.
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: I stayed in Atlanta to do one after our show.
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: And we got some work to do with those voters.
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: It was nine voters around a table, and they were
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: complaining that Joe Biden and the Democrats hadn't done anything yet.
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: These people do not like Republicans at all. They think
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: they're extreme. There's no chance they'll vote for Brian Kemp
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: or any Republicans. But they were very unhappy with Joe
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: Biden and the Democrats. And I said, well, have you
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: heard about the bill that Congress just passed that President
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: Biden's about to sign tomorrow? And one person in the
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: group had heard about it. And everyone else was surprised
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: by that. That person started saying, I think it's something
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: about health care and climate. And they're like, what? He
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: did something on climate? Finally? I didn't know that. No
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: one knew. And this is while it was in the news.
• 12:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, this is ultimately the huge challenge is
• 12:26
  Speaker 2: if you were communicating through traditional press, you're reaching no
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: one who has not already decided about whether they're going
• 12:33
  Speaker 2: to vote and who they're going to vote for. And
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: like those people are not, they're not watching CNN. They're
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: not reading the New York Times. They're not on Twitter.
• 12:40
  Speaker 2: And that's where we have to think more creatively. This
• 12:42
  Speaker 2: is really hard, right? It's absolutely really hard.
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: It's really hard. I think that the Biden administration has
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: been doing this, or maybe I'm just imagining it, but like,
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: calculators about what it means for you, how much money
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: you're going to save on either with ACA subsidies, with
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: prescription drugs, on energy bills. I think just having done
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: all these focus groups, people are most interested in, of course,
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: what's going to make a difference in my life? How
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: is this going to change my life? Because I did
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: get some comments over the course of the focus groups like, oh,
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: there was this big infrastructure bill that passed, but all
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: the roads in my state are still broken and there's
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: too many potholes still. And why don't I see anything
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: from the infrastructure bill has changed anything? I heard it
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: was going to do stuff and it hasn't done anything.
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: And I do think there's this hunger out there for
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: government to do something that's going to improve their lives
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: in some measurable way. Now, the challenge with this bill
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: is a lot of the provisions that are going to
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: make a difference for people aren't going to take effect
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: for a while, but letting people know what's coming to
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: them and what's going to happen is you know, I
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: think that's going to be really important for the Biden
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: administration to get out there. And every Democrat, like you said,
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: and all of us, we all have agency here. All right.
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: So now we did that. Now we can go to
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: the Trump did crime story.
• 13:54
  Speaker 2: Because Joe Biden is overshadowing Trump's criminality. Is that a
• 13:57
  Speaker 2: problem for Democrats? Tune in next week at the New
• 13:59
  Speaker 2: York Times.
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: So there are quite a few new developments worth talking about.
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: In the Mar-a-Lago investigation, we learned that the Justice Department
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: is still investigating Trump's decision to hide nuclear secrets in
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: his beach house. They said that they're still interviewing witnesses.
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: including former White House counsel Patsy Bologna and his deputy.
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: There's a report about that. We also learned that one
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: reason the FBI finally got a search warrant is that
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: they saw something alarming on the Mar-a-Lago surveillance footage that
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: they subpoenaed. In Georgia, we learned that Trump's former attorney, Mr.
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: Rudolph Giuliani, has been told that he's a target of
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: the criminal investigation into the attempt to overturn the last election.
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: He sat with the grand jury yesterday. They finally got
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: Rudy to testify yesterday. We also learned that his buddy,
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: Lindsey Graham, has been ordered by a federal judge to testify.
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: Graham is appealing that because he doesn't want to testify.
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: And in New York, we learned that Allen Weisselberg, Trump's
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: longtime chief financial officer, just pled guilty to all 15
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: felonies he's been charged with related to the tax scheme
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: he ran for Trump's business. A lot of potential crimes there.
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: And real crimes in the case of Allen Weisselberg. Dan,
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: we also learned that Trump is apparently having a hard
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: time finding a lawyer who's willing to represent him in
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: all this mess, which I thought was funny because on
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: one hand, Trump is having a hard time finding a
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: lawyer who's willing to represent him. On the other hand,
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: we found out that Shane Goldmarker at the New York
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: Times reported that there were two days over the last
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: couple weeks since the FBI search warrant where he raised
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: a million dollars from donors on each day, which are
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: like the two best days he's had in a long,
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: long time in fundraising. So- having a real hard time
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: getting a lawyer to represent him for his legal troubles.
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: But on the political side, his Republican support and the
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: money that's coming in from Republicans has never been better.
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: What's going on there?
• 15:51
  Speaker 2: Well, I think you could probably break it down like this,
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: is that no Republican elected official or party official who
• 15:59
  Speaker 2: has backed Donald Trump through any of his crimes, dating
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: back five, six years now, has paid a real political
• 16:05
  Speaker 2: price for having done so. The people who pay the price,
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: as we will talk about in the next segment, are
• 16:12
  Speaker 2: the people who oppose Trump. Now, for attorneys, that is
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: something different. You mentioned Rudy Giuliani is a target of
• 16:20
  Speaker 2: a criminal investigation. How did he find himself in that position?
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: By being Donald Trump's attorney. And it is not because
• 16:27
  Speaker 2: Donald Trump is likely guilty. We should be very clear
• 16:29
  Speaker 2: about that. Guilty people deserve representation, of course. And rich,
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: guilty people particularly rich, guilty white men, never have trouble
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: getting attorneys, right? That happens all the time. What is
• 16:41
  Speaker 2: unique about Trump is I think he is such a
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: terribly dangerous client that he keeps getting– if you try
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: to defend Trump from his crimes, you somehow become a
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: participant in his crimes. Take the example of the affidavit
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: that was signed that claimed that all of the materials
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: that the National Archives wanted had been returned when they
• 17:03
  Speaker 2: absolutely had not. That is probably because, and I'm speculating here,
• 17:07
  Speaker 2: Trump told his attorneys that they had all been returned.
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: So his attorney put their name on a legally binding
• 17:15
  Speaker 2: document saying that. And so in general, most lawyers don't
• 17:19
  Speaker 2: want to end up on the other side. They don't
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: have to go hire their own attorney from doing this.
• 17:24
  Speaker 2: And so I think Trump is a uniquely dangerous client. Now, obviously, John.
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: Eastman's been in trouble. He's a crime super spreader.
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right. That's right.
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: You get near them, you get the crime on you.
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: I mean, I thought that in the Mar-a-Lago investigation, so
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: the government, the DOJ basically said they do not want
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: to unseal the affidavit, which is basically the evidence that
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: led the judge to issue the search warrant to the FBI,
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: which Trump and the press both asked for them to
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: unseal the affidavit. And the reason is they said, Disclosure
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: of the government's affidavit at this stage would also likely
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: chill future cooperation by witnesses whose assistance may be sought
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: as this investigation progresses. And it could also harm, quote,
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: other high-profile investigations as well. I thought that was pretty
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: interesting because there was this thought at the beginning after
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: the search was conducted, okay, maybe DOJ is just interested
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: in getting, and DOD and the federal government in general,
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: just interested in getting all of their classified information back.
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: And once they have it back, leave Trump alone and
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: that's that. It seems that either if they're continuing the investigation,
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: either there's a potential they may bring charges or there's more,
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: they believe there's more classified information they still don't have back.
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: Or like they just said, hinted there, there are other
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: investigations somehow connected to the Mar-a-Lago investigation that are all
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: wrapped up together that they don't want to tip their
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: hand on. What did you think?
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: It's very intriguing, John, and I'm excited to see what happens.
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: I'll tell you that. I mean, who knows, right? It
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: is like, I think it at least says that Trump's
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: legal jeopardy did not end at the rate that there is.
• 19:10
  Speaker 2: He is like, obviously, he's got legal jeopardy in multiple
• 19:13
  Speaker 2: jurisdictions for multiple crimes in multiple places. But in this
• 19:16
  Speaker 2: specific crime that is currently overshadowing Joe Biden's tremendous record
• 19:20
  Speaker 2: of success. He is not out of the woods yet.
• 19:22
  Speaker 2: I think that is interesting and notable and problematic for Trump.
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: There's reports that he wants to release the surveillance tape,
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: the surveillance footage of the FBI conducting the search at Mar-a-Lago. Apparently,
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: the FBI, when they started conducting the search, Trump and
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: his family was watching from New York. They were watching
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: the surveillance footage, and the FBI told them to shut
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: it off, and they said they decided not to shut
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: it off. And they just watched the search anyway. And
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: now Trump wants to release that footage. Why do you
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: think he wants to release that footage?
• 19:57
  Speaker 2: I can't imagine there's anything interesting there. But some of
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: the reporting around this has said that the reason that
• 20:03
  Speaker 2: Trump allies want to do this is they think it
• 20:05
  Speaker 2: will further excite and inflame the Trump base because you
• 20:08
  Speaker 2: would see you know, FBI agents, whatever terrible Nazi or
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: jackbooted thug analogy these right-wing lunatics are using, you know,
• 20:18
  Speaker 2: roaming around his beach house. I don't know why that
• 20:20
  Speaker 2: that would be interesting, but I think they think it's
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: just like more content that makes it seem like ultimately
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: what Trump wants to be is a martyr. He wants
• 20:27
  Speaker 2: to be a victim.
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: He wants grievance.
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: And this would be a piece of evidence that would
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: dominate right-wing media. It would rally people to his defense.
• 20:36
  Speaker 2: You know, some of the people who came out there
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: right away who have since backed away as It turns
• 20:40
  Speaker 2: out that every single thing he said from the day
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: of the raid was a lie will come back out
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: because this will be a moment to express support for Trump.
• 20:48
  Speaker 2: So it's not going to help his legal case. I
• 20:51
  Speaker 2: don't think it's necessarily going to help his larger political case,
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: but I think it will likely mean more $ 1 million
• 20:57
  Speaker 2: days in online donations for his scam pack that he
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: uses to pay for his legal defense.
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: I don't think it's going to help his political case
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: with the general electorate by any means. But clearly he's
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: just running a Republican primary here. And he wants to,
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: like you said, he wants to be the victim because
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: if he's the victim, then Republicans will feel forced to
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: rally around him. I've thought that from the beginning that
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: Trump is going to run and he's going to be
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: the nominee again. Then there was a period where I
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: briefly flirted with the idea that maybe Ron DeSantis could
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: take this guy down. And I was waiting for the
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: moment that Trump announced for president and to see how
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: Ron DeSantis would react to that. But a similar moment
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: came where the FBI searches Mar-a-Lago and Ron DeSantis is
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: just like, there's no daylight between him and Trump. He
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: just goes right out. I thought he had a chance
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: to separate himself just a little bit on this. And
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: no one did. No one in the Republican Party, except
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: for the usuals that we're about to talk about, separated
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: themselves from Trump, no matter how bad. the facts get
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: for him around this, which leads me now to think like,
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't think anyone can take this
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: guy down. I don't think any of them are willing
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: to do it.
• 22:10
  Speaker 2: That may be. That absolutely may be. Ron DeSantis has
• 22:13
  Speaker 2: a complicated political calculus right now, which is, although he
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: is favored, he is up for reelection in a few months.
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: And were he to separate himself from Donald Trump on
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: an FBI raid taking place in Ron DeSantis' estate, and
• 22:27
  Speaker 2: Donald Trump were to actively turn against him, then I
• 22:30
  Speaker 2: think that– he's still favored. But that– like I understand
• 22:33
  Speaker 2: why he did not do that. The question will be
• 22:36
  Speaker 2: what happens the minute after the votes are counted if
• 22:38
  Speaker 2: he wins re-election? How does he navigate Trump then? So
• 22:43
  Speaker 2: I don't– he's still obviously a huge favorite to win
• 22:47
  Speaker 2: the nomination were he to run again. But I don't
• 22:49
  Speaker 2: know that what happened this past week tells us a
• 22:52
  Speaker 2: ton about at least how Ron DeSantis would run against him.
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: Well, one Republican who separated himself from Trump this week
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: is our boy Mike Pence of hang Mike Pence fame.
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: Dan put that in the outline. It made me laugh.
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: Pence is back in the news for gave a speech,
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: told Republicans to stop attacking the FBI, and also said
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: that he would consider an invitation to testify before the
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: January 6th committee when asked by a reporter what he
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: would do if they reached out. What do you think
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: is going on there?
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: I mean, the Occam's razor explanation for all things involving
• 23:31
  Speaker 2: Mike Pence is that he's one of the dumbest people
• 23:33
  Speaker 2: in American public life. There's not a lot of strategy
• 23:37
  Speaker 2: happening there. I mean, let's just presume for a second
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: that he is less dumb than everyone knows he to be.
• 23:43
  Speaker 2: Were Trump to run, his chances of winning a nomination
• 23:46
  Speaker 2: against Trump are minuscule. They are zero if he doesn't
• 23:49
  Speaker 2: do something to differentiate himself from Trump.
• 23:52
  Speaker 4: Right?
• 23:52
  Speaker 2: He has to make a case against Trump. He would
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: still lose most likely, but it's his only shot. And
• 23:58
  Speaker 2: so I think the acceptance of Mike Pence as something
• 24:03
  Speaker 2: other than a national joke comes from the fact that
• 24:05
  Speaker 2: Trump tried to murder him and failed. And so testifying
• 24:11
  Speaker 2: in January, and you've seen the Wall Street Journal editorial
• 24:13
  Speaker 2: board and some Republican donor world and sort of MAGA
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: adjacent establishment folks have come around on Mike Pence in
• 24:22
  Speaker 2: part because of what happened on January 6th and that
• 24:25
  Speaker 2: he stood strong that day and with the heroic task
• 24:29
  Speaker 2: of not committing treason that was doomed to fail. So
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: I think that he's probably sort of like riding that
• 24:35
  Speaker 2: a little bit, what that actually– he's definitely not testifying enough.
• 24:39
  Speaker 2: in a live hearing. He's not about to be Cassidy Hutchinson.
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: Or, uh, yeah, he and Liz Cheney are going to, uh,
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: team up together in the next January. I mean, it's just,
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: it's such a small constituency as we're about to talk
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: about with, with, with Cheney for Republicans who like Pence's
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: case is basically I'm everything you loved about the Trump
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: administration without all the character flaws or the charisma, right? Exactly.
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: But that's what, that's my point, right? It's like, no, no, no.
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: People aren't supporting Trump. The MAGA base doesn't love the
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: accomplishments of the fucking Trump administration. They know that they're
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: like singing the praises about the Abraham Accords.
• 25:16
  Speaker 2: Tommy doesn't even know you said that, but somewhere his
• 25:22
  Speaker 2: head just exploded.
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: That's not why they're there. They're there for the character flaws.
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: They're there because he's an asshole and he's like stirring
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: up grievance and anger and resentment. That's what they love.
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: It's crazy. Pence might have some new competition, though, in
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: the race to be the anti-Trump Republican in 2024. Our queen,
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: Liz Cheney, said on Wednesday that she's thinking about running
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: for president. This is after Cheney lost her Wyoming primary
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: against Republican lawyer Harriet Hageman on Tuesday by 66 to
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: 29 percent. That's a lot. That's a big loss. But
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: the next day, Cheney hinted that she's not done with
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: politics during an interview with Savannah Guthrie on The Today Show.
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: Let's listen.
• 26:03
  Speaker 4: I will be doing whatever it takes to keep Donald
• 26:05
  Speaker 4: Trump out of the Oval Office. Well, I know you
• 26:07
  Speaker 4: didn't say yes or no, and that's fine if you're
• 26:08
  Speaker 4: thinking about it. But are you thinking about it?
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: Are you thinking about running for president?
• 26:15
  Speaker 4: That's a decision that I'm going to make in the
• 26:17
  Speaker 4: coming months, Savannah. I'm not going to make any announcements
• 26:19
  Speaker 4: here this morning, but it is something that I'm thinking
• 26:22
  Speaker 4: about and I'll make a decision in the coming months.
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: Dan, are you heading to Cheyenne to run this thing
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: or what?
• 26:28
  Speaker 2: I presume we're all going together, right? We're getting the
• 26:30
  Speaker 2: gang back together again.
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: Maybe, you know, Jackson Hole is nice. Set up camp there.
• 26:38
  Speaker 2: That's exactly what a bunch of resistance liberals would do,
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: where they would put the shady headquarters.
• 26:44
  Speaker 3: Don't even.
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: The little blue dot in my head. Yes.
• 26:48
  Speaker 5: We need to be, where can we get a chai latte?
• 26:51
  Speaker 5: We need to be within one mile of a chai latte.
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: Assuming that. Liz Cheney is both smart, which I think
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: she is, and genuinely wants to stop Trump from becoming
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: president again, which I think she does. How would this work?
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: Is this a good idea? What could she be thinking here?
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: It wouldn't work, John. No, I mean, look, I think
• 27:13
  Speaker 2: this whole thing is a very fascinating intellectual exercise, which
• 27:17
  Speaker 2: is probably where it tops out in terms of significance.
• 27:19
  Speaker 2: But here are the various scenarios where this happens. One
• 27:23
  Speaker 2: is Trump runs... DeSantis runs, a bunch of Republicans run,
• 27:28
  Speaker 2: and she joins that field. In a large multi-candidate field,
• 27:34
  Speaker 2: are there enough hardcore conservative Bush-Cheney anti-Trump Republicans? Absolutely not. No,
• 27:44
  Speaker 2: there's absolutely not. I mean, she got 29% in a
• 27:47
  Speaker 2: state where her family are political royalties. So it's going
• 27:52
  Speaker 2: to be very different in Iowa or South Carolina or
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: somewhere like that. The Cheneys have been political royalty in
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: that state for half a century. Another world is Trump
• 28:02
  Speaker 2: doesn't run. Then there's no lane for her, right? Her
• 28:07
  Speaker 2: lane is anti-Trump, end of gender, stopping big lies. There's
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: no reason to run. And the next one is everyone
• 28:15
  Speaker 2: else takes a pass. Your theory on Ron DeSantis bears
• 28:18
  Speaker 2: out and it's just Trump And Cheney, right? And maybe
• 28:21
  Speaker 2: there's some other third-tier or fourth-tier yahoos, but those are
• 28:24
  Speaker 2: the two people. In that case, I don't think there
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: would be a single RNC debate. I think the RNC
• 28:29
  Speaker 2: would not hold the debate if the only two significant
• 28:31
  Speaker 2: candidates were Trump and Cheney.
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: I heard that they're flirting with requiring every candidate who
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: participates in the debate to sign a loyalty pledge that
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: they will ultimately support the nominee, in which case they
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: think that Liz Cheney would not sign that pledge because
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: she will not ultimately support Trump. Yeah, and.
• 28:50
  Speaker 2: I think that the party would probably pass a resolution
• 28:52
  Speaker 2: saying she was not a Republican.
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah, they're not going to fuck around with this. No
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: Liz Cheney allowed.
• 29:00
  Speaker 2: The decision to hold primaries are in most cases decided
• 29:03
  Speaker 2: by the party. So I think there's a legitimate chance
• 29:06
  Speaker 2: South Carolina would cancel its primary if it was Cheney-Trump. Now,
• 29:10
  Speaker 2: what is interesting here and what I think is savvy
• 29:12
  Speaker 2: about it is Cheney is going to be in Congress
• 29:15
  Speaker 2: for another four months. This hearing has given her this
• 29:17
  Speaker 2: huge platform. As long as she is talking about running
• 29:21
  Speaker 2: for president, she is going to have a platform once
• 29:24
  Speaker 2: she's out of Congress, once the January 6th hearing committee
• 29:27
  Speaker 2: is over, at least her participation is over, to make
• 29:29
  Speaker 2: a large public case about Trump. Like pretending to run
• 29:34
  Speaker 2: for president or contemplating running for president will give her
• 29:37
  Speaker 2: access to the media, give her a place to make
• 29:39
  Speaker 2: that case. make the case to Republicans, independents, Biden, Republicans,
• 29:44
  Speaker 2: et cetera, that returning to Donald Trump is deeply dangerous,
• 29:48
  Speaker 2: she will have the ability to do that. I think
• 29:50
  Speaker 2: this is a decision to have a platform not to
• 29:53
  Speaker 2: be president.
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: What about the possibility of a third party run? Can
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: you talk about that one?
• 30:00
  Speaker 2: That would be one way. Third party runs always very hard.
• 30:02
  Speaker 2: She would have to join probably an existing party that
• 30:05
  Speaker 2: has ballot access like the Libertarian Party.
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so she runs on the Libertarian ticket. I think
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: that it– Or she gets on the ballots because fucking
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: no labels has raised a bunch of money to.
• 30:17
  Speaker 2: Manchin Cheney? Cheney Manchin?
• 30:20
  Speaker 3: Cheney Yang?
• 30:22
  Speaker 2: Will she be on the forward party ticket?
• 30:23
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 30:25
  Speaker 2: I think there would be real risk there. And we
• 30:27
  Speaker 2: don't know enough about the political environment. It all depends
• 30:30
  Speaker 2: on what– if Biden is running, what his approval rating
• 30:32
  Speaker 2: is for the Democrat. There's real risk that an anti-Trump
• 30:36
  Speaker 2: conservative could suck just enough voters in these battleground states
• 30:41
  Speaker 2: that are more Republican than the national average and tip them.
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: I mean who's– No, she would drop out in that scenario.
• 30:48
  Speaker 2: Like this is not a Howard Schultz sort of situation.
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: This is the danger of her on the ballot everywhere
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: as a third-party candidate, is that, like, who is a
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: Liz Cheney voter? It's either, like you said, a conservative Republican,
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: probably college-educated from the Bush-Cheney era who just was sick
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: of Trump. Those people are few and far between. A
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: lot of them have already just crossed over to vote
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: for Joe Biden in the last election, if not in
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: 2016 and 2020. So the number of them that are
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: still Republican are few. Or... again, it's people who now
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: have been voting Democrat who for the last several elections
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: who were like, well, I'm kind of sick of Democrats
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: and I don't like Trump, but Liz Cheney, and that
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: that would pull votes away from Biden. I'd be particularly
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: worried in states with, you know, a lot more college
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: educated voters that are turning bluer like an Arizona, like
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: a Georgia. I think Liz Cheney on the ticket as
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: a third party in those states could really spoil the
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: election for the Democrats. The question is, are there red
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: states where She just gets on the ballot in some
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: red states that a Democrat would never win anyway. And
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: she's on the ballot, so she spoils, so she makes
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: sure that Trump can't win that state. Or she just
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: takes enough votes away from Trump in like a redder
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: state to spoil the election for him and then helps
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: the Democrat. There's like some math there that could work
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: in a redder state.
• 32:10
  Speaker 2: It's hard because I could probably only identify two states
• 32:14
  Speaker 2: off the top of my head where that is possible.
• 32:17
  Speaker 3: Utah?
• 32:18
  Speaker 2: Well, actually, I take three. That's a good one. Utah
• 32:20
  Speaker 2: is one interesting one just because it's a very unique electorate,
• 32:22
  Speaker 2: but it would probably be North Carolina and Texas because
• 32:26
  Speaker 2: Democrats tend to win state. The battleground states that we
• 32:29
  Speaker 2: won in 2020 and we need to win in 2024
• 32:32
  Speaker 2: were all incredibly close. The states we lost, we lost
• 32:35
  Speaker 2: by pretty large margins. So you would have to really
• 32:38
  Speaker 2: suck up a huge swath of voters. I mean, the
• 32:40
  Speaker 2: math in the South is really interesting where you have
• 32:42
  Speaker 2: a very, very large black population that makes up a
• 32:46
  Speaker 2: huge percentage of Democrats. But you have to get to
• 32:48
  Speaker 2: Ross Perot-like numbers to go back to 1992 to drive
• 32:53
  Speaker 2: someone's win number into the low 40s, which is what
• 32:56
  Speaker 2: Ross Perot did that created the math environment where Bill
• 32:59
  Speaker 2: Clinton could become president with a pretty overwhelming electoral college
• 33:02
  Speaker 2: margin without coming anywhere near getting 50% of the vote nationally.
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah. No, I think it's pretty tough. Do you think
• 33:08
  Speaker 1: Liz Cheney's primary loss says anything about the Republican Party
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: that we didn't already know?
• 33:13
  Speaker 4: No.
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: I don't.
• 33:14
  Speaker 4: No.
• 33:14
  Speaker 2: I looked at that question on the outline for a
• 33:16
  Speaker 2: long time, and I was very curious if you had
• 33:18
  Speaker 2: any thoughts on it. But it is– I think the
• 33:22
  Speaker 2: one thing– if you look at all of the primaries
• 33:24
  Speaker 2: that have happened today because we're getting kind of to
• 33:25
  Speaker 2: the end here is that you can win a Republican
• 33:28
  Speaker 2: primary if Trump is against you, but you cannot win
• 33:31
  Speaker 2: a Republican primary if you are against Trump. And that
• 33:35
  Speaker 2: is a relatively important– that's why Brian Kemp won and
• 33:37
  Speaker 2: Liz Cheney lost.
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: And she lost by a lot. And I just think
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: the constituency out there in the Republican Party for candidates
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: who want to run specifically against Trump, like you said,
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: it's just it's too small. It's too small. And, you know,
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: like you said, in a state where the Cheney's are
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: political royalty. All right. When we come back, filmmaker Alex
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: Holder talks about his new documentary on the final days
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: of Trump's presidency. Welcome back. We're joined today in studio
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: by Alex Holder, a filmmaker whose new documentary about Trump's
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: final days in office, Unprecedented, was subpoenaed by the January
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: 6th committee because of how much access to the Trump
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: family he had. Alex, welcome to the pod.
• 34:21
  Speaker 3: So nice to be here.
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: It's nice to have you. So Trump, Ivanka, Don Jr., Eric, Jared,
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: all sat down for multiple interviews with you between sort
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: of like the final months of the campaign and a
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: couple months after Trump left office. And they did so
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: knowing that they had no control over the project at all.
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: How did you get them to agree to that?
• 34:45
  Speaker 7: So I think when we first started, they were pretty
• 34:49
  Speaker 7: convinced they were going to win the election.
• 34:50
  Speaker 3: And some of them still think that they won.
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: Famously so.
• 34:54
  Speaker 3: Exactly.
• 34:55
  Speaker 7: But this was going to be a repeat of the
• 34:57
  Speaker 7: 2016 election all over again.
• 34:59
  Speaker 3: The pollsters were all wrong. And Don Jr.
• 35:02
  Speaker 7: 's favorite line during the campaign was, let's make liberals
• 35:06
  Speaker 7: cry again. which I always thought was pretty cruel and
• 35:09
  Speaker 7: not that funny.
• 35:12
  Speaker 1: Watching the documentary, a lot of his jokes are just terrible. Yeah,
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: really bad. Really bad.
• 35:17
  Speaker 7: And he sort of, I think he laughs a lot
• 35:20
  Speaker 7: at his own jokes. And then people then laugh because
• 35:22
  Speaker 7: he's laughing, I think, because he's just a bit of
• 35:25
  Speaker 7: a moron. But I mean, yeah, so they thought that
• 35:29
  Speaker 7: they were going to win. And also I was somebody
• 35:33
  Speaker 7: that wasn't part of the mainstream media i guess right
• 35:36
  Speaker 7: like i'm a british guy foreign didn't really have any
• 35:38
  Speaker 7: political skin in the game so why not have this
• 35:41
  Speaker 7: sort of random british dude film us win the election
• 35:46
  Speaker 7: and i think the third was uh was actually the
• 35:48
  Speaker 7: british accent i mean they they trump is obsessed with
• 35:53
  Speaker 7: the queen that's right he's absolutely obsessed i mean almost
• 35:56
  Speaker 7: on every occasion i met him he would always bring
• 35:58
  Speaker 7: the queen up and i wonder whether or not there's
• 36:01
  Speaker 7: He feels like the Trump family are like a quasi
• 36:05
  Speaker 7: royal dynastic family, perhaps.
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: I'm sure also the simplicity of his brain is just like,
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: guy with British accent, bring up queen.
• 36:13
  Speaker 3: Exactly.
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: That's all he's got.
• 36:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 36:14
  Speaker 7: I mean, with Eric, actually, it was guy with British accent,
• 36:17
  Speaker 7: have you been to the golf course in Scotland?
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: I always got business on his mind. So you first
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: sat down with Trump in December 2020 after he lost.
• 36:28
  Speaker 1: What was his state of mind at that point? And...
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: Do you think he actually believed he won or did
• 36:35
  Speaker 1: he seem like he was full of shit?
• 36:38
  Speaker 7: I mean, he's certainly full of shit, but he also
• 36:40
  Speaker 7: believes that he won. I mean, which I think is
• 36:44
  Speaker 7: actually really important because, you know, to be so delusional
• 36:50
  Speaker 7: and still be the president of the United States of America,
• 36:52
  Speaker 7: the incumbent, the commander in chief. I mean, the guy
• 36:55
  Speaker 7: with the fucking nuclear football was literally standing behind me.
• 36:58
  Speaker 7: in the diplomatic reception room, whilst he is literally reading
• 37:04
  Speaker 7: out of how to be a totalitarian dictator. We need
• 37:07
  Speaker 7: to find brave judges that agree with my position, right?
• 37:12
  Speaker 7: So he convinced himself of the lie. But I mean,
• 37:16
  Speaker 7: just that interview in its own right was extraordinary. I mean,
• 37:20
  Speaker 7: I didn't think it was going to happen. I mean,
• 37:21
  Speaker 7: this is a month after the election. He wasn't giving
• 37:23
  Speaker 7: interviews to anybody. And we're outside the White House, you know,
• 37:27
  Speaker 7: the Secret Service doing all the checks and everything.
• 37:29
  Speaker 3: We go inside.
• 37:31
  Speaker 7: And I still didn't think he was going to come.
• 37:33
  Speaker 7: And then the moment I knew he was on his
• 37:35
  Speaker 7: way was when the Secret Service.
• 37:36
  Speaker 3: Was all sort of moving around.
• 37:37
  Speaker 7: And then I heard them say, mogul on the move.
• 37:41
  Speaker 3: And at that point, it was like, oh, really? This
• 37:43
  Speaker 3: is actually happening.
• 37:44
  Speaker 7: And he sits down and, yeah, it was just an
• 37:47
  Speaker 7: extraordinary experience in the sense of, oh, this is the
• 37:51
  Speaker 7: White House.
• 37:51
  Speaker 3: He's the... the.
• 37:53
  Speaker 7: Incumbent president of the United States of America. And there's
• 37:56
  Speaker 7: that very famous George Washington painting looking down at him.
• 38:00
  Speaker 7: And he is literally undermining democracy. And it was just,
• 38:04
  Speaker 7: when I said this on the Seth Meyers show, after
• 38:07
  Speaker 7: the interview, I sort of held onto a wall because
• 38:09
  Speaker 7: I was so taken aback by what had actually happened.
• 38:11
  Speaker 7: Because there's a big difference between him doing the rhetoric
• 38:16
  Speaker 7: at a campaign rally to actually sitting in the White
• 38:20
  Speaker 7: House and saying the bullshit that he was saying.
• 38:22
  Speaker 1: Well, I was going to ask because, you know, there's
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: like a very famous anonymous quote that was given to
• 38:28
  Speaker 1: the Washington Post in the weeks after the election where
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: some senior Republican official said, like, just let him have
• 38:35
  Speaker 1: his fun. What do you think he's going to, he's
• 38:37
  Speaker 1: not going to leave. He's going to leave eventually. It's fine.
• 38:40
  Speaker 1: Just let him burn himself out, whatever. And famously, that
• 38:44
  Speaker 1: almost didn't happen. At what point while you were making
• 38:47
  Speaker 1: this documentary did you start thinking to yourself, oh shit,
• 38:51
  Speaker 1: this could go really badly and maybe he's going to
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: try not to leave and things could go south pretty fast?
• 38:58
  Speaker 7: Honestly, after that interview, I mean, that interview really was
• 39:01
  Speaker 7: quite extraordinary because he just wouldn't stop talking about how
• 39:06
  Speaker 7: the election was won by him. And he wasn't just
• 39:08
  Speaker 7: saying why he thought he won it. He was actually
• 39:11
  Speaker 7: coming up with remedies to show how It was stolen
• 39:16
  Speaker 7: from him. So he was talking about how the Georgia
• 39:19
  Speaker 7: officials need to reopen the votes to compare the signatures.
• 39:23
  Speaker 7: And he was saying that the secretary of state and
• 39:26
  Speaker 7: the governor of Georgia were stupid people. because they weren't
• 39:30
  Speaker 7: agreeing with his position. And actually, we need to open
• 39:34
  Speaker 7: this up and move it to the state legislature because
• 39:37
  Speaker 7: they agree with him. And he was saying that we
• 39:39
  Speaker 7: need to find the right judges, et cetera. So there
• 39:42
  Speaker 7: was no way that this wasn't going to get more
• 39:44
  Speaker 7: and more serious as time moved on.
• 39:48
  Speaker 3: At least that's what I was thinking.
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: You interviewed him for a second time at Mar-a-Lago a
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: few months after he left office. What was he like then?
• 39:57
  Speaker 7: It was a very different personality. He was much more depressed.
• 40:02
  Speaker 7: He was angry and depressed. When I met him in
• 40:03
  Speaker 7: the White House, he was sort of angry, but quite assertive.
• 40:06
  Speaker 7: Whereas in Mar-a-Lago, he was angry and depressed. And the
• 40:09
  Speaker 7: reason he was depressed, I found out one of his
• 40:11
  Speaker 7: aides told me before he came in, he was in
• 40:13
  Speaker 7: a really bad mood because he was going through withdrawal
• 40:18
  Speaker 7: from not being able to use Twitter.
• 40:21
  Speaker 1: Like actual withdrawal.
• 40:22
  Speaker 7: Literally, that was the words that she used, that he
• 40:24
  Speaker 7: was going through a withdrawal. And he had put on weight.
• 40:28
  Speaker 7: I mean, he's a big guy anyway, but he had
• 40:29
  Speaker 7: really sort of put on weight, and he was very down.
• 40:33
  Speaker 3: So it was so funny.
• 40:34
  Speaker 7: He walks into Mar-a-Lago, and there's this hideous painting of
• 40:37
  Speaker 7: him from about 30 years ago, like an oil painting
• 40:41
  Speaker 7: of him. and and i wanted to include that in
• 40:44
  Speaker 7: the shot but i wasn't sure whether or not they
• 40:46
  Speaker 7: would be embarrassed of us including that in the shot
• 40:49
  Speaker 7: but we did it anyway and they were so happy
• 40:51
  Speaker 7: that we included it in the shot anyway he walks
• 40:54
  Speaker 7: in and i'm like hello mr president and he completely
• 40:56
  Speaker 7: ignores me and he starts talking about like isn't this
• 40:59
  Speaker 7: the most beautiful floor you've ever seen i mean he's
• 41:02
  Speaker 7: just it's very i mean mar-a-lago is stunning but the floor.
• 41:05
  Speaker 1: I mean, it was just, it just needs constant, constant
• 41:08
  Speaker 1: positive feedback about anything.
• 41:10
  Speaker 3: Exactly.
• 41:11
  Speaker 7: He sits down empty hole. And then we know we're
• 41:13
  Speaker 7: doing literally, I mean, we're doing the, uh, the small talk.
• 41:16
  Speaker 7: And I said, last time we spoke was at the
• 41:18
  Speaker 7: white house and he's like, Oh, but this is much
• 41:20
  Speaker 7: more beautiful than the white house.
• 41:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean, he believes that. Absolutely. Did it, did
• 41:24
  Speaker 1: Mar-a-Lago seem like a safe place to keep nuclear secrets?
• 41:27
  Speaker 7: I mean, it's a member's club that he played golf.
• 41:29
  Speaker 7: I mean, it's probably the worst place you would ever keep, uh, secrets.
• 41:33
  Speaker 1: What was the security like there?
• 41:35
  Speaker 7: I mean, obviously there's a secret service security, but it's
• 41:38
  Speaker 7: much less than when he's at.
• 41:40
  Speaker 3: The White House.
• 41:41
  Speaker 1: And that's just around him, really.
• 41:42
  Speaker 3: Exactly.
• 41:42
  Speaker 7: I mean, I was able to walk around the place totally.
• 41:45
  Speaker 7: We were sort of left to our own devices. So,
• 41:47
  Speaker 7: I mean, it was not at all secure. And at
• 41:51
  Speaker 7: one point in the interview, we were interrupted because the
• 41:54
  Speaker 7: members of the public that are at this club were
• 41:57
  Speaker 7: making a noise.
• 41:58
  Speaker 3: And Trump was like, tell them to shut up.
• 42:00
  Speaker 1: I mean.
• 42:01
  Speaker 7: But it's so typical Trump to believe that these documents
• 42:05
  Speaker 7: belong to him, right?
• 42:06
  Speaker 3: I mean, he's just.
• 42:07
  Speaker 1: I was going to say, having spent so much time
• 42:09
  Speaker 1: with him, do you have a theory as to why
• 42:11
  Speaker 1: he would take classified info with him to Mar-a-Lago and
• 42:16
  Speaker 1: not just take it with him like, oh, by accident,
• 42:18
  Speaker 1: but then be asked for it back by the government,
• 42:20
  Speaker 1: by federal agents, and refuse to give it all back?
• 42:23
  Speaker 7: Yeah, I mean, it's because his name's on it and
• 42:25
  Speaker 7: he thinks it's his. I mean, he's just as simple
• 42:27
  Speaker 7: as that. The thing with Trump is that he really
• 42:30
  Speaker 7: is just a very simple, quite strange, dumb guy.
• 42:35
  Speaker 3: I mean, with all due respect.
• 42:37
  Speaker 1: Occam's razor on this kind of stuff.
• 42:38
  Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly. I mean, yeah, he.
• 42:40
  Speaker 1: And a good sense of how to entertain people and
• 42:43
  Speaker 1: a good sense of television and a good sense of
• 42:46
  Speaker 1: how to rile people up. But I think beyond that,
• 42:49
  Speaker 1: there's not a lot.
• 42:49
  Speaker 7: Oh, there's no substance at all. I mean, there's no
• 42:51
  Speaker 7: substance even when he's doing the things that he's quite
• 42:53
  Speaker 7: good at, I must say. As in, like, he's just
• 42:54
  Speaker 7: a very, he's very basic. But, I mean, he kept
• 42:57
  Speaker 7: talking about Kim Jong-un all the way through all these interviews. And,
• 43:00
  Speaker 7: Those are the letters that he had between the two
• 43:04
  Speaker 7: of them. In his mind, they are his letters. And so, obviously,
• 43:08
  Speaker 7: they should be in his house.
• 43:10
  Speaker 1: You testified before the January 6th committee. You did a deposition.
• 43:15
  Speaker 1: They had subpoenaed some footage. What was the focus of
• 43:18
  Speaker 1: the committee's questions?
• 43:20
  Speaker 7: I think they were obviously surprised about the fact that
• 43:23
  Speaker 7: we had this access and no one knew about it.
• 43:26
  Speaker 1: I mean.
• 43:27
  Speaker 7: The Trumps knew about it and the people around them,
• 43:29
  Speaker 7: and they claim they didn't know about it, which is
• 43:30
  Speaker 7: obviously ridiculous because we were always there and very present.
• 43:34
  Speaker 7: But I think they were surprised by the access. I
• 43:37
  Speaker 7: think they were interested in the footage that we captured
• 43:40
  Speaker 7: on January 6th, which wasn't with the family. We were
• 43:43
  Speaker 7: in D.C. and that was a horrific day. And we
• 43:47
  Speaker 7: captured this moment of one of Trump's own supporters essentially
• 43:50
  Speaker 7: being crushed to death on the steps of the Capitol.
• 43:52
  Speaker 7: I mean, he's totally obviously responsible for that in every
• 43:56
  Speaker 7: single way. And so I think they were very interested
• 43:59
  Speaker 7: in that footage and also just what people were doing
• 44:04
  Speaker 7: at various times as well in the lead up to
• 44:07
  Speaker 7: it and the people around them as well. So they
• 44:09
  Speaker 7: were interested in a lot of sort of the behind
• 44:10
  Speaker 7: the scenes of what was going on whilst we were
• 44:12
  Speaker 7: interviewing the president and others.
• 44:14
  Speaker 1: Was there footage that they were looking for that didn't
• 44:18
  Speaker 1: make it into the final documentary? Because I watched the
• 44:22
  Speaker 1: documentary last night and by the way, very compelling, well done.
• 44:25
  Speaker 1: though I kept looking for something that was going to
• 44:27
  Speaker 1: be like a revelation in terms of what the January
• 44:30
  Speaker 1: 6th commission is investigating. And I didn't, maybe I'm, I'm
• 44:33
  Speaker 1: very in the weeds on everything, but I didn't notice anything.
• 44:35
  Speaker 1: And I was wondering if there was a bunch of
• 44:37
  Speaker 1: footage that didn't make it in that the committee found interesting.
• 44:40
  Speaker 3: So there's a bunch, there is a lot of footage
• 44:41
  Speaker 3: that didn't make it in.
• 44:42
  Speaker 1: I imagine.
• 44:42
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 44:43
  Speaker 1: So I'll leave it, I'll leave it at that.
• 44:44
  Speaker 3: I mean, I think, look, you know, they.
• 44:46
  Speaker 7: Have their own sort of narrative and, and, you know,
• 44:50
  Speaker 7: sort of agenda that they want to sort of look
• 44:53
  Speaker 7: at and, they have everything and they'll probably pick the
• 44:57
  Speaker 7: pieces that they think they need.
• 44:59
  Speaker 1: Did you get a sense of lines of inquiry from
• 45:01
  Speaker 1: the committee that surprised you or where they were heading
• 45:05
  Speaker 1: or areas they were looking for that we all haven't
• 45:08
  Speaker 1: seen in prime time over the last several months?
• 45:11
  Speaker 3: No, I think it was all.
• 45:11
  Speaker 7: I mean, they were very straightforward and I think it
• 45:13
  Speaker 7: was very... They were very direct with their questions and
• 45:16
  Speaker 7: very engaged and it was very clear how important this was.
• 45:22
  Speaker 3: I mean.
• 45:24
  Speaker 7: for me, at least when I go in there and
• 45:26
  Speaker 7: sitting down and I'm now talking to probably the most
• 45:29
  Speaker 7: consequential political investigations in Watergate.
• 45:32
  Speaker 3: And I'm just like, what the fuck is going on?
• 45:35
  Speaker 7: You know, so it was, uh, it was, they definitely
• 45:39
  Speaker 7: showed the importance of what they were doing and how
• 45:43
  Speaker 7: this is, this isn't a circus, right? Like this is
• 45:45
  Speaker 7: actually really, I mean, the guy, uh, It fractured the
• 45:50
  Speaker 7: foundations of democracy in America. And this is an important
• 45:55
  Speaker 7: investigation to prevent that from ever happening again and to
• 45:58
  Speaker 7: find out how. So I think that was really the key.
• 46:01
  Speaker 7: And that's what they're into finding out.
• 46:03
  Speaker 1: You mentioned Georgia. You're also expected to testify in the
• 46:06
  Speaker 1: case that the Fulton County DA is bringing the criminal investigation.
• 46:09
  Speaker 3: I keep getting these subpoenas the whole time.
• 46:12
  Speaker 1: Not something you would have expected when you started a documentary.
• 46:14
  Speaker 1: Although I guess if you're doing a documentary about the
• 46:16
  Speaker 1: Trump family, yeah, maybe you do expect some subpoenas. What
• 46:22
  Speaker 1: parts of your footage do you think will be important
• 46:24
  Speaker 1: to the grand jury in the Georgia investigation? I know
• 46:27
  Speaker 1: I know there was a small part in the documentary
• 46:29
  Speaker 1: that mentioned that you replayed the call between Raffensperger and Trump,
• 46:34
  Speaker 1: but are there other parts of the footage?
• 46:35
  Speaker 7: Yeah, so in the first interview with Trump, he talks
• 46:39
  Speaker 7: about Georgia a lot. And some of it's in the
• 46:42
  Speaker 7: doc and some of it isn't in the doc, but
• 46:43
  Speaker 7: there's quite a bit where he is referring to Georgia.
• 46:47
  Speaker 7: And I think what's interesting is that the phone call
• 46:50
  Speaker 7: actually took place almost exactly a month after that interview.
• 46:55
  Speaker 7: So you can sort of see This wasn't just like
• 46:58
  Speaker 7: a spur of the moment thing. I mean, he was
• 47:00
  Speaker 7: really convinced that they needed to find these 11,000 votes
• 47:04
  Speaker 7: a month earlier.
• 47:06
  Speaker 1: So he'd been plotting that for a while.
• 47:07
  Speaker 3: It seems like that's the case.
• 47:09
  Speaker 1: That's okay. You know, I think you probably, it seems
• 47:12
  Speaker 1: from the documentary that you set out to do a
• 47:14
  Speaker 1: documentary about the Trump family dynamics with the children. You know,
• 47:18
  Speaker 1: we've all come to know Trump's children as like caricatures
• 47:21
  Speaker 1: of Does the caricatures that we all have of the
• 47:25
  Speaker 1: Trump children, do they hold up in real life? Absolutely.
• 47:27
  Speaker 3: I mean, I think Eric just sort of wants.
• 47:30
  Speaker 7: This is obviously my take on all this, right? But
• 47:32
  Speaker 7: Eric just wants us all to stop, I think. He
• 47:34
  Speaker 7: just wants that.
• 47:35
  Speaker 1: My take on how you portrayed Eric is like, you
• 47:40
  Speaker 1: tried to give him a story. He doesn't have much
• 47:42
  Speaker 1: of a story. Literally, which is what everyone thinks. He's
• 47:45
  Speaker 1: always just like, yeah, he's sort of interested in business.
• 47:47
  Speaker 1: And now he's in politics. And he's just Eric. And yeah,
• 47:51
  Speaker 1: my dad's my best friend. And then you've got Don Jr.,
• 47:54
  Speaker 1: who just I found him so hilarious. I mean, dangerous,
• 47:58
  Speaker 1: but also very hilarious.
• 47:59
  Speaker 7: I mean, his political awakening is having gone to back
• 48:05
  Speaker 7: then Czechoslovakia to be with his grandparents. And He was
• 48:11
  Speaker 7: complaining about how he couldn't wear his American flag, no
• 48:14
  Speaker 7: jean jacket. And he was so scared that that could
• 48:17
  Speaker 7: happen in America. So that's why he is now this,
• 48:20
  Speaker 7: you know, staunch right wing Republican to prevent the idea.
• 48:23
  Speaker 3: Of a communist. I mean, it's just so ridiculous when
• 48:27
  Speaker 3: they say these things.
• 48:27
  Speaker 7: You have to try and not laugh. And then obviously,
• 48:31
  Speaker 7: when he talks about how the state of journalism is
• 48:33
  Speaker 7: so bad. that he wrote a book that he was
• 48:36
  Speaker 7: very proud of. I found the Don Jr.
• 48:39
  Speaker 1: Stuff very interesting, somewhat frightening, because I do think he's
• 48:43
  Speaker 1: sort of the biggest political threat in the family in
• 48:45
  Speaker 1: the future. And I hadn't realized the whole backstory there
• 48:49
  Speaker 1: until I watched the doc, that Ivanka's always been the
• 48:53
  Speaker 1: favorite child. Trump's always proud of her because she's polished
• 48:56
  Speaker 1: and successful in everything he wants the Trump brand to be.
• 49:00
  Speaker 1: And he was always a little bit embarrassed by Don Jr.
• 49:02
  Speaker 1: because Don Jr.
• 49:03
  Speaker 4: Was.
• 49:04
  Speaker 1: What we now think of as Trumpier. He's closer to
• 49:06
  Speaker 1: the base. He loved guns, loved shooting, was more MAGA
• 49:10
  Speaker 1: than any of the other children. And so Don Jr.
• 49:13
  Speaker 1: then uses that during the campaign to sort of outmaneuver
• 49:18
  Speaker 1: Ivanka as to try to be the new favorite kid
• 49:21
  Speaker 1: and is arguably closer to the MAGA base than Ivanka.
• 49:27
  Speaker 1: his father, or any of the children.
• 49:29
  Speaker 3: Absolutely.
• 49:29
  Speaker 7: I mean, it's hilarious how they, at the end of
• 49:31
  Speaker 7: the day, all they want is their father's attention, right?
• 49:34
  Speaker 1: Just clear, yeah.
• 49:35
  Speaker 7: And America suffered because of that, right? I mean, that's
• 49:37
  Speaker 7: basically what it was, right? It was a family-run business
• 49:41
  Speaker 7: where the three eldest children were all trying to outmaneuver
• 49:44
  Speaker 7: each other. And, Yeah, and they're running the country for
• 49:48
  Speaker 7: all intents and purposes.
• 49:49
  Speaker 3: I mean, it's extraordinary.
• 49:50
  Speaker 7: And I don't think, you know, at best, they just
• 49:52
  Speaker 7: didn't understand what the fuck they were doing. I mean,
• 49:54
  Speaker 7: at worst, they did, and we'll find out. But, you know,
• 49:57
  Speaker 7: it's just incompetence and not understanding how dangerous the rhetoric
• 50:03
  Speaker 7: is when you have such a large platform. And, you know,
• 50:08
  Speaker 7: including the children, right? They just didn't understand what they
• 50:11
  Speaker 7: were doing. Or if they did understand what they were doing,
• 50:13
  Speaker 7: they were obviously very bad people.
• 50:15
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 50:16
  Speaker 1: We all have a particular loathing for Jared Kushner here
• 50:21
  Speaker 1: at Crooked. He's got a new book out, fantastic review
• 50:25
  Speaker 1: in the New York Times, if everyone hasn't read it yet.
• 50:28
  Speaker 1: What was your take on Jared?
• 50:30
  Speaker 7: I mean, Jared is, it was actually so interesting because
• 50:34
  Speaker 7: he came across as somebody who genuinely believed that he
• 50:39
  Speaker 7: had a right to be in the position that he
• 50:41
  Speaker 7: was in. And I just found that so fascinating. I mean,
• 50:45
  Speaker 7: Of all the things to come across as, right? To
• 50:48
  Speaker 7: come across as somebody who has the audacity to think
• 50:51
  Speaker 7: that he deserved to be in that position that he
• 50:55
  Speaker 7: was in. I mean, the fact, like, the only reason
• 50:58
  Speaker 7: he's there is because his wife's dad won the election.
• 51:01
  Speaker 1: I mean, that's literally... No other planet would you hire
• 51:04
  Speaker 1: Jared Kushner for something.
• 51:05
  Speaker 3: Right. So, like, I mean.
• 51:07
  Speaker 1: That you wanted to succeed in. Yeah.
• 51:10
  Speaker 7: So, you know, that for me was pretty extraordinary.
• 51:13
  Speaker 1: So, yeah.
• 51:14
  Speaker 7: I mean, other than that, he's very... I mean, I
• 51:16
  Speaker 7: always say he's really... I mean, he's a nice dude.
• 51:20
  Speaker 7: I mean, you know, he shook my hand and said thanks, but, like,
• 51:22
  Speaker 7: he was just sort of, impressively unimpressive.
• 51:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah, no. A set of dimples without a demographic was
• 51:29
  Speaker 1: the description in the New York Times that really got me.
• 51:33
  Speaker 1: I cannot imagine a scenario where Donald Trump doesn't run again,
• 51:37
  Speaker 1: even if he is indicted. I mean, I don't think
• 51:40
  Speaker 1: that might make him more likely to run again. Can
• 51:42
  Speaker 1: you imagine a scenario where he doesn't run again?
• 51:44
  Speaker 7: So I think he's definitely going to announce that he's
• 51:46
  Speaker 7: going to run. I just don't think he will end
• 51:47
  Speaker 7: up running.
• 51:48
  Speaker 1: You don't?
• 51:48
  Speaker 7: No, I mean, there's a few reasons. One is that
• 51:50
  Speaker 7: the guy lives on a diet of basically Diet Coke
• 51:53
  Speaker 7: and burgers and he's sort of not the healthiest guy
• 51:57
  Speaker 7: in the world. And two is that Trump doesn't normally
• 52:00
  Speaker 7: or ever really in his life, do the same thing again,
• 52:02
  Speaker 7: when he fails, he pivots to something else. So when
• 52:05
  Speaker 7: businesses fail, casinos, et cetera, they'll move to something else.
• 52:08
  Speaker 7: So I think here it's, it's a similar situation. Also
• 52:14
  Speaker 7: the first time around, he didn't think he was going
• 52:15
  Speaker 7: to win.
• 52:16
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 52:16
  Speaker 7: And it was all part of his whole little game
• 52:19
  Speaker 7: of like just getting media attention, et cetera, but he won.
• 52:22
  Speaker 7: The idea of being able to maintain that the election
• 52:25
  Speaker 7: was stolen a second time, I don't think even he
• 52:27
  Speaker 7: thinks is potentially.
• 52:29
  Speaker 3: I don't know.
• 52:30
  Speaker 1: I think if he believes the lie... And he's made
• 52:33
  Speaker 1: himself believe the lie that he doesn't think he failed
• 52:36
  Speaker 1: in 2020. And so then this is revenge. Sure.
• 52:39
  Speaker 7: But at the same time, I think that he believes
• 52:41
  Speaker 7: a lie that they could do it again.
• 52:43
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 52:44
  Speaker 7: And also, look, Trump doesn't understand why people don't like
• 52:48
  Speaker 7: him unless he doesn't like them first.
• 52:51
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 52:51
  Speaker 7: So in his mind, and that's the same with everything.
• 52:53
  Speaker 7: So he doesn't understand why people don't agree with him
• 52:57
  Speaker 7: with respect to the election. So I think, you know,
• 53:01
  Speaker 7: he would potentially be nervous that the same thing could
• 53:04
  Speaker 7: happen again.
• 53:04
  Speaker 3: I mean, it's totally ludicrous. It's just extraordinary.
• 53:07
  Speaker 7: And the guy, I think we all, in some ways
• 53:10
  Speaker 7: assume that he is a rational player and we sort
• 53:13
  Speaker 7: of then sort of rank him to that, right? Like
• 53:15
  Speaker 7: we sort of assume that we can actually describe strategy.
• 53:18
  Speaker 3: Exactly. Yeah.
• 53:19
  Speaker 7: Like he really, he's on a different, he's in a
• 53:22
  Speaker 7: different dimension. I mean, he does not exist in this,
• 53:25
  Speaker 7: in this reality whatsoever.
• 53:29
  Speaker 1: My last question on this is just, you know, you
• 53:31
  Speaker 1: spent so much time not only with Trump and the family,
• 53:35
  Speaker 1: but at events with all of these Trump fans, voters.
• 53:40
  Speaker 1: Did you come away with a better understanding of the
• 53:43
  Speaker 1: appeal of Donald Trump to the, you know, however many
• 53:49
  Speaker 1: million Americans voted for him at the end?
• 53:51
  Speaker 4: Sure.
• 53:51
  Speaker 7: I mean, at the end of the day, he's the
• 53:52
  Speaker 7: guy that stands up on the stage and says, I'm
• 53:54
  Speaker 7: going to give you everything you want.
• 53:55
  Speaker 3: I mean, it's the simplest thing.
• 53:57
  Speaker 7: Way of getting people i mean he's the populist right
• 54:00
  Speaker 7: he's the demagogue so you know you have x problem
• 54:02
  Speaker 7: i'm going to fix it for you and you know
• 54:04
  Speaker 7: the fact that it's not possible to fix it or
• 54:07
  Speaker 7: he doesn't understand all the issues you know is irrelevant
• 54:11
  Speaker 7: right like i have a problem i'm your guy to
• 54:13
  Speaker 7: fix it and people you know bought into that and
• 54:15
  Speaker 7: he's good i mean he you know when he speaks
• 54:18
  Speaker 7: it's totally incoherent right but actually what he's doing is
• 54:21
  Speaker 7: he's moving from you know, one aspect to another aspect
• 54:25
  Speaker 7: based on the reactions of the crowd.
• 54:26
  Speaker 3: It's very interesting to see.
• 54:27
  Speaker 7: So, you know, if he's talking about, say, in Kansas
• 54:31
  Speaker 7: and he'll be doing a rally there and he'll start mentioning,
• 54:34
  Speaker 7: I don't know, how he moved the Israeli embassy from
• 54:37
  Speaker 7: Tel Aviv to Jerusalem and there isn't much of a reaction.
• 54:39
  Speaker 7: So immediately, you know, move from that to like, we
• 54:41
  Speaker 7: built the biggest wall ever, right? Like there's no like
• 54:44
  Speaker 7: connection whatsoever, but people, but he's very good at knowing
• 54:47
  Speaker 7: what the crowd want and he sort of feeds the
• 54:50
  Speaker 7: crowd the rhetoric that, They applaud, and that's his cocaine, essentially.
• 54:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and shamelessness, I guess, is a powerful weapon in politics.
• 54:59
  Speaker 7: I mean, he was so brilliant at using the apparatus
• 55:02
  Speaker 7: of the presidency. I mean, there were moments, actually, and
• 55:05
  Speaker 7: it's interesting how it wasn't picked up, but he was
• 55:07
  Speaker 7: actually like Kim Jong-un in the sense of they all
• 55:11
  Speaker 7: run after him. When Kim Jong-un's in the car, they
• 55:14
  Speaker 7: all run after him. There was this rally we were at,
• 55:17
  Speaker 7: and the two... presidential cars, the beast, right? So you've
• 55:21
  Speaker 7: got these two cars that will basically say the Air
• 55:24
  Speaker 7: Force One lands and the cars basically were like moving
• 55:27
  Speaker 7: really slowly whilst he's walking to the stage on either side.
• 55:31
  Speaker 7: And I mean, it was just, and then all the
• 55:33
  Speaker 7: Secret Service around him and everything. And then the best
• 55:37
  Speaker 7: is that he would time the takeoff of Air Force
• 55:42
  Speaker 7: One to the crescendo of Nessun Dorma.
• 55:46
  Speaker 3: I shit you not.
• 55:47
  Speaker 1: What?
• 55:48
  Speaker 7: Literally, at the end of rallies, he would not allow
• 55:51
  Speaker 7: Air Force One to take off until it reached the
• 55:54
  Speaker 7: crescendo of Nessun Dorma. So basically, you've got the end
• 55:57
  Speaker 7: of the song, and then suddenly Air Force One zooms
• 55:59
  Speaker 7: up into the sky.
• 56:00
  Speaker 3: I mean, it's extraordinary.
• 56:03
  Speaker 1: He's a TV guy.
• 56:04
  Speaker 3: He's a TV guy.
• 56:04
  Speaker 1: He's a TV guy. Alex Holder, thank you so much.
• 56:07
  Speaker 1: The documentary is unprecedented. Check it out. It's on Discovery +,
• 56:12
  Speaker 1: I believe.
• 56:12
  Speaker 3: Yep.
• 56:13
  Speaker 1: Thanks for stopping by Pod Save America. This was fun.
• 56:15
  Speaker 1: This was really fun.
• 56:16
  Speaker 3: Thanks so much.
• 56:26
  Speaker 1: All right. Before we go, we have to talk about
• 56:29
  Speaker 1: the most important and explosive story of the week. A
• 56:34
  Speaker 1: video of Dr. Oz shopping in the produce aisle of
• 56:39
  Speaker 1: Wegmans grocery store that was created and released by his
• 56:44
  Speaker 1: own campaign. Let's take a listen.
• 56:46
  Speaker 2: Thought I'd do some grocery shopping. I'm at Wegner's, and
• 56:49
  Speaker 2: my wife wants some vegetables for crudite, right? So here's
• 56:53
  Speaker 2: a broccoli. That's two bucks, about a ton of broccoli there.
• 56:57
  Speaker 2: Here's some asparagus. That's $ 4. Yep.
• 57:00
  Speaker 1: Carrots.
• 57:02
  Speaker 2: That's four more dollars. That's $ 10 of vegetables there. And
• 57:05
  Speaker 2: then we need some guacamole.
• 57:08
  Speaker 5: That's $ 4 more.
• 57:08
  Speaker 6: And She loves salsa.
• 57:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah, there's salsa there. $ 6? Must be a shortage of salsa.
• 57:16
  Speaker 5: Guys, that's $ 20 for crouton.
• 57:18
  Speaker 2: This doesn't include the tequila.
• 57:20
  Speaker 1: I mean, that's outrageous.
• 57:22
  Speaker 2: We got Joe Biden to thank for this.
• 57:24
  Speaker 4: All right.
• 57:27
  Speaker 1: Elijah, are you there? We have to tell the story
• 57:30
  Speaker 1: of how this became a story. Hi, guys.
• 57:34
  Speaker 2: I am here.
• 57:35
  Speaker 1: Hi, Elijah. So what everyone has to know before we
• 57:39
  Speaker 1: dive into this is This video was not new this week.
• 57:42
  Speaker 1: This video was first released April 4th, 2022. It is
• 57:49
  Speaker 1: now August, I am told. I forget which month it is. Elijah,
• 57:53
  Speaker 1: how did this come to be?
• 57:55
  Speaker 6: Yeah, so we were in Atlanta doing our live show
• 57:58
  Speaker 6: and we had a little bit of downtime between soundcheck
• 58:01
  Speaker 6: and actually going on stage. And I came back to
• 58:04
  Speaker 6: say what's up to you guys and y'all's, you know,
• 58:07
  Speaker 6: backstage room and I saw there was a veggie platter there.
• 58:10
  Speaker 6: And I said something like, I can't see one of
• 58:11
  Speaker 6: these now without thinking about asparagus. And you guys were like,
• 58:15
  Speaker 6: what the hell are you talking about? I couldn't believe
• 58:18
  Speaker 6: that you hadn't seen the video. So I showed it
• 58:20
  Speaker 6: to you and love it. Then you guys showed it
• 58:23
  Speaker 6: to Dan and Tommy and then Tommy liked it so
• 58:26
  Speaker 6: much that he tweeted it. And then that got traction.
• 58:29
  Speaker 6: A bunch of libs on Twitter started tweeting it. And
• 58:31
  Speaker 6: then the Fetterman campaign picked it up and then they've
• 58:34
  Speaker 6: raised like half a million dollars this week just off
• 58:37
  Speaker 6: of this awkward crudite video.
• 58:40
  Speaker 1: That's how it became viral. Tommy lifted it up again
• 58:44
  Speaker 1: on Twitter after Elijah couldn't believe we hadn't seen it yet,
• 58:47
  Speaker 1: which I hadn't. And it turns out most of the
• 58:49
  Speaker 1: country hadn't yet either.
• 58:51
  Speaker 2: Some would hear this story and say, kudos to Elijah
• 58:54
  Speaker 2: for making this moment happen. And potentially, like think of
• 58:57
  Speaker 2: all the things Elijah could have done if John Fetterman
• 59:00
  Speaker 2: is the 52nd seat in the Senate like he I
• 59:04
  Speaker 2: mean just.
• 59:05
  Speaker 5: Voting rights more climate.
• 59:07
  Speaker 2: Like he might've saved the planet. That's one version of
• 59:10
  Speaker 2: the story. The other version of the story is that
• 59:13
  Speaker 2: I have been walking around this on this earth for
• 59:16
  Speaker 2: five months without knowing about this video. And I am
• 59:19
  Speaker 2: fucking pissed about it. And here's the thing.
• 59:21
  Speaker 1: How much more do we need to pay? How much
• 59:23
  Speaker 1: closer do we need to pay attention to politics? It
• 59:26
  Speaker 1: is a sickness. We are on our fucking Twitter all
• 59:29
  Speaker 1: the time. We talk about this for hours every week.
• 59:31
  Speaker 1: How did we not see this video?
• 59:33
  Speaker 2: John, I do a YouTube show once every two weeks
• 59:36
  Speaker 2: about crazy Republican videos that is produced by Elijah. How
• 59:41
  Speaker 2: have I not seen it?
• 59:42
  Speaker 3: What is happening?
• 59:43
  Speaker 1: I have definitely sent you this video.
• 59:45
  Speaker 2: Do we need to get another? Find the receipts.
• 59:48
  Speaker 1: There is no way. Do we need to get another
• 59:49
  Speaker 1: Slack channel? How many more Slack channels do we need
• 59:51
  Speaker 1: in this company?
• 59:52
  Speaker 2: Maybe that's the problem.
• 59:53
  Speaker 5: Maybe we have too many Slack channels. There's some like
• 59:55
  Speaker 5: fucking French snack channel we're unaware of.
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 6: That video is stuck in my mind because we were
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 6: doing research for Political Experts React.
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 2: Shout out our YouTube.
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 6: Go subscribe so you never miss an episode.
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 1: Bye.
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 6: I feel like I must have sent it to you
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 6: because that's how I came across it.
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 2: If you can prove it through email or Slack or text,
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 2: I will apologize on next week's pod to you. But
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 2: up until then, you are on probation as far as
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 2: I'm concerned.
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 1: Fair. Anyway, the substance of the video, let's talk about
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 1: why it has become such a thing. And John Fetterman
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 1: has raised half a million dollars off this video. I mean,
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 1: my initial reaction, just if I'm being honest, was like,
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 1: who the hell is dipping their asparagus in salsa? or
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 1: their broccoli and guacamole. That is not a crudite platter.
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 1: I mean, there's calling it crudite versus veggie tray, but
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 1: for me, whatever. I've been known to call it crudite
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 1: myself once.
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 3: In a while.
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 1: The collection of shit that he got to put on
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 1: that platter, and then he throws tequila in there. Also,
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 1: it's Wegmans is the grocery store.
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 2: No, it is Wegmans. Yes, he has merged Wegmans and Reveners,
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 2: two regional grocery stores in the Pennsylvania area, into one
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 2: called Wegmans, which does not exist.
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 1: Wegners.
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 2: Wegners, yes.
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 1: And the other part of this is, like, he wasn't
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 1: caught on tape. This was not a caught on, this
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 1: was not a, like, I caught you on video moment.
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 1: This is, we produced this video, he says Wegners, he
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 1: grabs all this shit in the grocery store. He says it.
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 1: They put it in a video. They cut the video.
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 1: They edit the video. They have him saying Wegener's, and
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 1: they tweet it out. They tweet out the video. They
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 1: put it out from the campaign. What a campaign. They
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 1: are great. What a fantastic set of advisors he's got.
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 2: I mean, what a world where, as a campaign, you
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 2: get together and you create the most devastating negative ad
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 2: in recent memory, but it turns out it's about your
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 2: own candidate.
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 1: It got so bad for Dr. Oz. that he was
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 1: interviewed on Newsmax, Newsmax, about this Crudite gaffe. And here's
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 1: what happened. Here's what he said.
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 2: And I mean to fixate on it, but just for
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 2: those watching in Pennsylvania, you know how particular many people
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 2: are about their groceries.
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 1: What happened with Wegmans and Wegners? Can you explain that
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 1: to them? Yeah, I was exhausted.
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 5: When you're campaigning 18 hours a day, I've gotten my
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 5: kids' names wrong as well.
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 2: I don't think that's a measure of someone's ability to
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 2: lead the Commonwealth.
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 1: I mean, can we invoke a slaughter rule here? How
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 1: bad is this going to get? You're getting grilled on
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 1: Newsmax about the grocery store video that your campaign put out,
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 1: and you're like, sometimes I forget my kids' names.
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 2: I mean, it truly is. Like, he seems like he
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 2: has never been in a grocery store before. Like, he's
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 2: like an alien from another planet who all they learned
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 2: about human civilization was from watching Bravo. Like, I don't
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 2: even understand. I mean, it's just, it's, I love it.
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 2: It is so great.
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 1: If Doggerog wins this campaign, people are going to, people
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 1: are going to have a great time looking back on
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 1: listening to this episode and all of our tweets. And,
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 1: but then at that point, like, I guess politics is
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 1: completely broken and nothing, nothing matters anymore.
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 2: Can he still win this race? Absolutely. Of course he can.
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 2: We have to say that just so that we can
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 2: put this version of the clip out after everyone dunks
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 2: on what happened in the previous five minutes. Of course,
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 2: of course he can win. He can. Will he? Who knows?
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 1: But is he running? Is he running one of the
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 1: worst campaigns I have seen in all my years in politics? Absolutely.
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 2: He is definitely running a terrible campaign. He is a weird,
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 2: weird man. It's very possible his campaign hates him. There
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 2: may be moles. There may be moles in that campaign.
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 1: He got in a Twitter fight just last night, Wednesday night,
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 1: with John Fetterman over how many homes he owns. And
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 1: someone said that he owns 10 homes. And Dr. Oz
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 1: gets on Twitter and he goes.
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 3: No, no, no.
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 1: Two homes, 10 properties.
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 4: Yes.
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 1: Dude, you tweeted that. You tweeted it. You put it
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 1: in a tweet, you hit the tweet button, and it
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 1: went out. Now everyone knows you have tech properties.
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 2: He probably didn't tweet that. That was not Dr. Oz,
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 2: because this was a designed attempt to punch back, because
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 2: he quote tweeted John Fetterman. He also attacked Fetterman for
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 2: living with his parents for a while, because if you're
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 2: not an out-of-state millionaire, you're somehow a failure, which is
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 2: not a particularly good message in any state.
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, John Fetterman living with his parents while he was
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 1: mayor of a small town and having a, like a
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 1: very low salary. So his parents helped him out. He
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 1: was in public service. Yeah. That was what he was doing.
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 2: So like that, like that tweet was, I'm sure written
• 1:05:02
  Speaker 2: by signed off on by a wide array of people
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 2: who probably make a lot of money as political consultants
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 2: and social media types. But the thing that's awesome is
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 2: I heard like, I was like nine properties. Like, is
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 2: he like an investor and like some shopping malls somewhere? No,
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 2: he owns 10 homes. He just only lives in two
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 2: of them. And it's really an open question if one
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 2: of the two he's referring to is actually the apartment
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 2: in Pennsylvania in the town whose name he keeps forgetting
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 2: because he's never really been there.
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 1: Elijah, could you do us a favor? And if we
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 1: ever film a video like that, could you and the
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 1: video team and the social media team just not put
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 1: it out?
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 6: Oh, God, relax. We will lie. We'll say the file
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 6: got corrupted. We're not doing our jobs if we let
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 6: that kind of thing get out. I think that Dan's right.
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 6: I think that there are people on his campaign that
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 6: might actually hate him.
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 1: That's true. It could have been infiltrated by some Democrats.
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 1: Maybe it's like a reverse Project Veritas kind of thing. Anyway,
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 1: I thought you'd all enjoy that. That was fun. That
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 1: was fun. Thank you, Elijah, for helping the Fetterman campaign
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 1: and potentially saving the country. and Tommy for tweeting it. Thanks,
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 1: Alex Holder, for joining the pod today, for talking about
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 1: his documentary. Everyone go check it out, Unprecedented. And everyone
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 1: have a great weekend. Enjoy your crudité, and we'll talk
• 1:06:23
  Speaker 1: to you next week. Bye, everyone. Pod Save America is
• 1:06:30
  Speaker 1: a Crooked Media production. The executive producer is Michael Martinez.
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 1: Our senior producer is Andy Gardner-Bernstein. Our producers are Olivia
• 1:06:37
  Speaker 1: Martinez and Hayley Muse. It's mixed and edited by Andrew Chadwick.
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 1: Kyle Seglin and Charlotte Landis sound engineer the show. Thanks
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 1: to Tanya Sominator, Sandy Gerard, Hallie Kiefer, Ari Schwartz, Andy Taft,
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 1: and Justine Howe for production support. And to our digital team,
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 1: Elijah Cohn, Phoebe Bradford, Milo Kim, and Amelia Montuth. Our
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 1: episodes are uploaded as videos at youtube.com slash crookedmedia.