Latest / Women Disrupting Tech / How The Wealth Within Her Empowers Women’s Finances and Self-Worth with Catrine Rhenberg | Ep. 114

Transcript

How The Wealth Within Her Empowers Women’s Finances and Self-Worth with Catrine Rhenberg | Ep. 114 · Women Disrupting Tech

• 0:00
  So similarly, it's about, you know, the inner inner confidence
• 0:05
  and inner self belief. And I believe that the way
• 0:10
  founders and the investment ecosystems communicate will have
• 0:14
  also changed so that, you know, someone pitching with, with a
• 0:20
  certain style is not in itself a guarantee for investment or not,
• 0:25
  but that we have more openness to different communication
• 0:28
  styles and so on. And so that that the, the ideas
• 0:33
  and the, and the founders have the ability to, to shine through
• 0:38
  even if they don't fit. What is the traditional mold now
• 0:41
  of a of a founder? Yeah.
• 0:43
  And then VCs also have to start looking at like if if it's not a
• 0:47
  white guy, maybe he can be capable or she can be.
• 0:53
  Capable, yeah. But I think there it's like, you
• 0:56
  know, confidence doesn't not automatically mean competence
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  and the other way around because we have different ways of being
• 1:02
  in different communication styles and expression and and
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  there has to be more acceptance of that.
• 1:18
  Welcome to Women Disrupting Tech.
• 1:21
  My name is Erica Lucas, and on this podcast, I give the women
• 1:24
  who work in tech the platform they need to inspire and empower
• 1:28
  each other. Join me on a journey into the
• 1:31
  world of entrepreneurship, funding biases, and role models
• 1:36
  to discover the strategies for success in the tech industry.
• 1:40
  In other words, how women can disrupt tech.
• 1:44
  Are you ready to listen? Hey, welcome back to Women
• 1:55
  Disrupting Tech and thank you for tuning in to episode 114.
• 2:01
  So what happens when women stop asking for permission?
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  They raise their prices, negotiate their worth, and they
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  build businesses that reflect who they truly are, not who
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  others told them to be. In this episode of Women
• 2:19
  Disrupting Tech, I speak with Catherine Renberg and she's the
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  Co founder of The Wealth Within Her.
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  She helps women rethink the stories that they've been told
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  about money, risk and confidence.
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  From being told to be careful as a girl to learning not to speak
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  up too much in meetings, these messages tend to stick around
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  and Catherine shares a process to shift those beliefs.
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  She also shares what happens when women start defining wealth
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  and success on their own terms. So when you're ready to listen
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  and learn how the wealth within her empowers women's finances
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  and self worth, please welcome to women disrupting tech
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  Catherine and Behr Hey Catherine, welcome to women
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  disrupting tech. Good to have you question I
• 3:09
  always ask at the start is how you got into your current role
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  and of course yours. Thank you.
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  Great to be here. I'm really excited about our
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  conversation. And how did I get to my current
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  role? Well, my background has been
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  always in payments and fintech throughout my sort of career.
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  I started off actually at eBay, so the first few years, but from
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  eBay I went into PayPal and then I stayed within the pay, payment
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  and fintech space. And now what I do, I'll just
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  explain that and then explain how I did the transition.
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  Now, since about a year, I work as a payment consultant.
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  So working with payment companies as well as running the
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  platform, the wealth within her together with my Co founder.
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  And that's the, I guess the main focus today and how I got into
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  that was really looking at myself and talking to other
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  women in career, but also having, you know, done
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  entrepreneurial journeys and realizing how much we were
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  limiting ourselves in, in our careers and in our endeavours,
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  both privately and professionally.
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  So that's how we together with Rica, started the platform, The
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  wealth within Her really to look at women's relationship between
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  self worth, money, mindset and financial measures of success,
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  both at the individual side but also on the entrepreneurial
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  side. OK, So how, how is that
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  different for for women? Do they look, I mean, money is
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  money. Yeah, yeah.
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  Absolutely. And payments are payments.
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  What we look at a lot is is the relationship that we see between
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  self worth and net worth. So the fact that we believe that
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  a lot of how we relate to money and success is it's, it's
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  programmed basically from early childhood.
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  I mean how our relationship with money comes a lot from what we
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  experience both as men and women from childhood, what we see in
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  our families and so on. And that those patterns are then
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  repeated as we go into adulthood.
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  But but beyond that, what we also see is that society, and
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  that's society at large, but also parents, teachers,
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  etcetera, still treat girls and boys differently.
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  And, and that in turn translates again how into how we behave as
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  adults. And let me just give you a
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  couple of quick examples. There are a lot of studies that
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  show that 111 study in particular, I think it was it's
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  from 2017 from the published in the Journal of Pediatrics that
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  show that parents of young kids between 1:00 and 3:00 will
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  caution girls more against taking physical risks then they
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  caution boys. Then boys tend to, you know,
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  become more self reliant and confident that they can do
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  things. Whereas girls then start
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  thinking, oh, I have to be careful, I can't do this on my
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  own. Same thing with teachers helping
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  girls more than boys when they struggle with a task in school.
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  That's also something that we see from research and then
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  society. I mean, there are still, I was
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  in Amsterdam actually recently and went into the big Primark
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  shop close to the central station and just looked at the
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  T-shirts that were, you know, more targeting girls or boys.
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  And the boys T-shirts said things like explore and the
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  girls T-shirts said things like smile love.
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  And that's still today. I mean, that was two weeks ago
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  in Amsterdam. Those are the messages that, you
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  know, girls and boys are literally, you know, wearing.
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  And, and I believe that that has a very strong effect on, on
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  self-confidence, self worth, agency that we develop and how
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  that then effects a lot of things in adult life.
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  So would be fair to say that women feel less agency, more
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  dependence on on other people. Yeah, I believe.
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  I believe that's one part. And also that they become more.
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  Yeah. So the the dependency and and
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  the need to ask more for permission to seek external
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  approval before taking action. Yeah.
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  Oh, that's interesting. I didn't.
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  I didn't think of it that way to be honest, but you, you're
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  Swedish, right? Yeah.
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  Correct. You grew up in Switzerland, so
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  how did that influence your own upbringing and your own look at
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  self worth, at money, at asking for permission?
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  Yeah, or agency. So.
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  So in Sweden, I mean we have, we have two things that is kind of
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  ingrained in society. One what we which we call
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  yantelagen or it's a concept. And the other is a word called
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  logon, which is just about right.
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  There's no real translation for the word, but both of them I
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  think are very have very strong influence on society as a whole,
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  that you should not think that you are more than anyone else.
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  You should not strive to be better than anyone else.
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  And, and I think that that obviously effects women and men.
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  But if we go back to what we, what I, what we said a little
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  bit earlier about girls having the tendency to maybe more than
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  boys, seek external approval and make sure that they fit in.
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  So as a girl, you tend even more than to absorb these, these
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  societal norms of fitting in, of not doing more, of not sticking
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  out. And I think that from that, that
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  had for me, I think a big impact on, on wanting to be good and do
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  right, but not doing more. And and that has sort of also I
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  think, yeah, subconsciously impacted me and not maybe
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  pushing for promotions etcetera in my in my career as well.
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  So it hampered you in your upside?
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  Yeah, it limited you in your upside.
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  So the, the, the thing that came to my mind is it sounds really
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  almost egalitarian, but from what I know is that let's say
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  role patterns between men and women in Sweden are much more
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  equal. And in Nordic countries in
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  general, I think much more equal than let's say if you go to the
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  South or even to the US, for instance.
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  So there is also an upside I would say.
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  Yeah, I, I agree absolutely. I think that there's, you know,
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  there is a lot, especially when it comes to parental leave and,
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  you know, the ability for both parents to take time off to be
• 10:59
  with their children. That is that is, you know,
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  encouraged and accepted widely in in Sweden as a society even I
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  would say to some extent now in the start up world.
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  And and you know, for entrepreneurs, I I know of male
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  entrepreneurs in very, you know, early stage start-ups who do
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  take time off for for being with their children.
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  So yeah, absolutely. That is a positive side of it.
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  And I think the other side of, I mean, that has kind of maybe
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  come out of that I said, you know, we are limited and not
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  wanting to stick out, but the possibility to share parental
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  responsibilities, for example, I think that is also helping some
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  women to also feel that they can take, you know, time for other
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  things as well potentially like starting businesses and so on.
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  They don't have that full heavy responsibility of being the more
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  or less the only one caring for the kids, which is a big
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  additional responsibility on top of of work, which doesn't give
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  you much time to start thinking about, you know, entrepreneurial
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  ventures and so on. So.
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  So I think that is definitely positive.
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  Yeah, it gives a lot of word. Not that it gives you some
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  headspace I would say. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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  Because I mean, you know where I am now in the wealth within her
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  about the care gap, then there are so many different gaps.
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  You know, anything from gender pay gap to authority gap,
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  confident, but also the care gap, which is the fact that in
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  most societies and countries it is the woman who takes the the
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  brunt of the responsibility of the unpaid care work for
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  children, other family members, etcetera.
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  And that is more equal in Sweden.
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  And I think that gives the opportunity to to pursue other
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  interests and ventures potentially.
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  OK. So before you worked in in, in
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  eBay, in PayPal and other start-ups, I was wondering what
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  what made you make the shift towards the wealth within our
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  the financial empowerment part, what triggered that?
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  I think one big part was self reflection.
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  I actually looked at myself and specific events in my life and
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  realized how much money I had left on the table by being a
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  woman. And it wasn't, you know, because
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  I was spending money on, on makeup or sanitary products.
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  It was actually because I wasn't confident enough to ask for
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  things that I now looking back, believe, you know, I had a right
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  to, for example, negotiating first salaries.
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  I mean, women in general tend to not negotiate the first salary
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  to the same extent that men. I didn't, I was happy to get my
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  first job. And then, you know, I have other
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  specific events around stock options that I didn't ask for
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  even though they were in my contract because I thought I I
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  need to prove myself first before I ask for it.
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  And I just. So I did that for myself and
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  realized, OK, there is actual real money left on the table.
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  And then I had conversations with my Co founder and a lot of
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  other women around me that I had worked with or who were in my
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  social network who were doing the same things.
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  I mean, I have, I have someone I'm kind of I'm working with
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  right now who was who's who was saying, well, I will not ask for
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  a pay raise this year. I'll wait till next year because
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  my nanny was off for a few months last year.
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  So I wasn't, you know, fully committed to work.
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  I need to prove myself first before I ask.
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  And, and I believe that again, that is something how we've been
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  programmed and it's not, it's not to our advantage.
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  And I wanted to bring that to more women's attention, and not
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  just women, but to society as at large.
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  Yeah. So how do you, how can we change
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  that? I mean, the the, the patterns I
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  recognize I've heard that quite a lot.
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  Now on the negotiation part, women also tend to get punished
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  if they start to to, to negotiate like men do, like
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  playing hardball. So there's a whole thing of,
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  yeah, let's say societal norms and biases that comes with that
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  territory. But how can we change the way we
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  a the, the mindset of women and B, also the, the societal
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  acceptance of the change in behaviour?
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  Because I think we're in a shift in the transition phase towards
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  that moment that we start to accept that.
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  But I see a lot of and I hear a lot of resistance.
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  Yes, and and I mean, to your point, yeah, women get, you
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  know, quote, UN quote punished for negotiating, which is is sad
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  in itself. But I'm not also pushing women
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  to be like men. I'm just pushing women to be
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  more authentic to who they are themselves.
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  And I think to answer your question, one is awareness, both
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  on the women's side and on the rest of society, realizing that
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  we are all behaving according to, you know, programmed
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  behaviors and and biases. So taking the space and time to
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  question how we behave and where those beliefs come from, I think
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  is super important. And starting the comp.
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  So the awareness comes from starting the conversation.
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  That's a big part of what we're doing with the wealth within
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  her. I mean, we focus on on, as I
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  said, women in in career and then also on the start up
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  ecosystem. But for women in careers, we'd
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  run our wealth circles, which is just a safe space to talk about
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  money and definitions of wealth and self worth.
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  And I hear so many times, especially when we talk about
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  money, which I believe is only obviously one part of wealth.
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  It's it wasn't talked about when these women were growing up.
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  And often still women don't talk about money.
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  So just creating a space talk about money to talk about self
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  worth, I think it's important on that side.
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  And and then it extends into, OK, well, how can we then define
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  or become more, more confident in our own value to then be able
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  to negotiate for example, a salary because we believe we
• 18:04
  deserve? Yeah, because this, this has to
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  do a lot with worthiness. Yes, yeah, absolutely.
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  So then I was wondering how you look at it, how do we avoid that
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  younger women, let's say, who are in maybe universities or in
• 18:23
  school right now that they make the same mistakes, that they run
• 18:26
  into the same issues. Because you're, you're, I'm
• 18:31
  using air quotes here, you're fixing, we're helping, let's say
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  women who have had, who are in a career, helping them become more
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  self confident. How, how do we teach that to
• 18:50
  younger women and girls, especially?
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  Because I think that's if if we want to avoid the the patterns
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  repeating in themselves, we have to break them somewhere.
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  Absolutely. And I sometimes hear when I have
• 19:09
  conversations with people like we are, but that has changed.
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  Now there is a belief that things have changed, that they
• 19:16
  are different. But the example that I gave you
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  with the T-shirts, that's right now.
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  So worlds, you know, between the ages of five and 15 right now
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  are still getting the same messages.
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  And, and I, yeah, I think it's super important.
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  And, and the Pisa, you know, study, which is a big study by
• 19:34
  the OECD, they, they, they, they question 15 year olds around,
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  you know, how confident they are and well prepared for day-to-day
• 19:46
  situations. And there we see that the 15
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  year old girls questioned that last year, last time I think was
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  in 2020. Two or three are less confident
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  when it comes to money matters and managing finance and so on.
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  So it is very much a real problem still today for the
• 20:03
  younger, younger generation. But I think so a couple of
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  things when you do create awareness at our level and at
• 20:11
  our age, it pulls down to to our children.
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  I mean, I, I'm the mother of daughter, my Co founder is the
• 20:20
  mother of two daughters. So we have many more
• 20:23
  conversations also with our own children.
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  And I think it's super important to look at financial education
• 20:33
  for kids and there's a lot that's happening around that
• 20:37
  now, financial education, but the link between financial
• 20:42
  education and self worth. And and yeah, and I, I, we work
• 20:49
  also with some, you know, have conversations with neo banks and
• 20:53
  and other initiatives that that work specifically with kids.
• 20:57
  So there's two things I want to double click on what 1 is just
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  continuing this this part. What is the differences,
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  difference in messaging that you have towards your your daughter
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  versus what you've been taught yourself?
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  Yeah. What's the biggest difference?
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  Versus what? So we talk a lot about money
• 21:23
  with my daughter, which I, we didn't when I was growing up.
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  And, and, and so, you know, creating the, the awareness
• 21:33
  around what money is, how to. So that's more like the
• 21:38
  practical confidence. But I think that is that is
• 21:40
  important, the practical confidence that she understands
• 21:44
  how to deal with money, the fact that she needs to budget if she
• 21:49
  wants to buy something that is, you know, more more expensive,
• 21:55
  etcetera. And of course, I talk about that
• 21:58
  with my son as well. So we have an open conversation
• 22:01
  around how to deal with money, etcetera.
• 22:04
  And then I think my biggest one biggest thing that I try to do
• 22:11
  with both kids as well is I don't praise them for being
• 22:16
  good. I praise them for their effort.
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  And again, I think that that for me is different from how I was
• 22:25
  brought up and how I believe girls tend to be praised for,
• 22:32
  you know, yeah, doing the right thing rather than for their
• 22:37
  effort and for trying and and so on.
• 22:40
  So how does that then impact behaviour?
• 22:43
  Do you see that that, that because she she's trained
• 22:48
  differently, rewarded on effort rather than on, on executional
• 22:53
  outcome? Do do you see different results
• 22:57
  already? I don't know how old your
• 22:59
  children are. And by the way.
• 23:01
  Yeah, yeah. My daughter is 11 turning 12.
• 23:05
  I so I think one thing I also related to that is which I do
• 23:11
  see is that I, I get, I hear from her more, oh, this is what
• 23:17
  I did. I'm happy with what I did
• 23:19
  because because she has sort of the say the self reflection
• 23:24
  about the effort she put in rather than the outcome.
• 23:28
  And I think that's yeah, that's important.
• 23:30
  And I believe she probably tries things that she's not sure she
• 23:36
  will be good at because she doesn't risk not being rewarded
• 23:40
  for the outcome. I mean, you know, I will tell
• 23:43
  her, oh, you did a good job because she tried it, not
• 23:46
  because it was perfectly executed.
• 23:49
  So that gives her the chance to try it.
• 23:52
  Yes, and that also gives her the permission to fail and because
• 23:56
  she she tried and then. And that was that was good in
• 24:01
  that. Was the.
• 24:01
  That was the purpose, not the perfection.
• 24:05
  Exactly. OK.
• 24:07
  And and just to add to that, I mean, I think that when you
• 24:11
  extend it has an impact on on when we come back to
• 24:17
  entrepreneurship because you don't know often the end result,
• 24:22
  but you have to dare to try to succeed.
• 24:25
  And women seeking perfection to a larger extent than men may
• 24:30
  then self inhibit in trying because they are not sure of the
• 24:34
  outcome. And there are.
• 24:38
  If you're you reward people by the outcome, they generally tend
• 24:43
  to risk less. Exactly, Yeah.
• 24:46
  So the second thing I wanted to double click on is you worked
• 24:50
  for PayPal. I consider sort of a financial
• 24:56
  institution in itself. Do you see different mindsets
• 25:02
  towards money and then more? Do you also see more educational
• 25:09
  mindset about money in new banks versus old?
• 25:14
  In in how they support their customers you mean?
• 25:19
  Yes, for instance, but also how they do this internally, how
• 25:25
  they feel the money internally. And you you more not sure I.
• 25:33
  First, talk about the customer facing side, because that's
• 25:36
  probably the easiest part. I mean, if, if we leave kind of
• 25:42
  PayPal to the side, but I have conversations with, with, you
• 25:46
  know, banks now I and, and neo banks and, and, and fintech
• 25:53
  startups and so on. And I definitely see in, you
• 25:59
  know, more recent times at least, you know, maybe more than
• 26:03
  the different types of institutions that there is a lot
• 26:07
  more focus on, on education and awareness.
• 26:11
  I think that that has been a big shift recently and in putting
• 26:17
  much more effort around financial education at all
• 26:20
  levels. I mean there are there are a lot
• 26:22
  of initiatives by the banks themselves and by independent
• 26:27
  third parties, fintech startups to focus on financial education
• 26:34
  for kids, specifically for women as well.
• 26:36
  I mean, Gimme is one example, working with financial education
• 26:40
  for kids, female invest is a big, you know, initiative for
• 26:45
  female financial education and empowerment.
• 26:49
  And I think that the lot of the other financial institutions are
• 26:54
  also, you know, supporting that move towards more, more
• 26:58
  education. So I see it, I think across the
• 27:02
  board and I do see a lot of the banks doing, you know,
• 27:07
  initiatives for the for the kids as well, the more traditional
• 27:10
  banks as well, maybe a bit slower, but but I think, yeah,
• 27:13
  it's all happening. Are are neo banks quicker at
• 27:17
  that? Yes, I I definitely think that
• 27:21
  they are quicker in integrating that.
• 27:24
  Is there is there a matter of legacy that they still have to
• 27:29
  deal with the old quote UN quote systems and programming, whereas
• 27:33
  neo banks don't have the a the technological legacy but also B
• 27:39
  the the let's say mindset legacy.
• 27:43
  Yeah, I think it's both for sure.
• 27:45
  I think that that both both play a role and mindset for sure as
• 27:51
  well. Yeah.
• 27:53
  So I want to go back to the wealth within her because you
• 27:59
  offer a lot in terms of programs already.
• 28:03
  The basic premise I think is about reprogramming the
• 28:07
  subconscious. So we talked about the
• 28:12
  programming that we get both from upbringing and from
• 28:17
  education, and also which is being enforced by by society.
• 28:25
  How do you start that pro reprogramming?
• 28:29
  What take? Take me through the steps
• 28:31
  please. So really the base for starting
• 28:36
  is awareness. It's becoming aware that you may
• 28:42
  have a program that you know, quote UN quote is not yours.
• 28:46
  That's something that you have inherited and that is really
• 28:51
  whether we're working with individuals or female founders,
• 28:54
  that's the starting point, the awareness and to make sure that
• 28:59
  you don't just become aware once and then it falls into, you
• 29:03
  know, you fall into your old patterns and behaviours.
• 29:06
  We really encourage regular sort of journaling or other other
• 29:12
  activities to reflect on a continuous basis.
• 29:16
  How am I, how am I, you know, responding when I have financial
• 29:22
  decisions to make or when I'm spending?
• 29:24
  What was my reaction when I had to pay my bills or whatever?
• 29:29
  Because, because it's something that is so ingrained.
• 29:32
  Subconscious is programs, it's about 95% of our mind is, you
• 29:38
  know, subconscious according to various studies.
• 29:41
  And, and so it's something that we do without being aware.
• 29:45
  So that's why. It's on autopilot.
• 29:49
  It's on autopilot. That's why the awareness once is
• 29:53
  important. But the the continuous sort of
• 29:55
  reflection is the is the key to to change it, because otherwise
• 30:00
  you fall back into the autopilot.
• 30:01
  Yeah. So do you have some sort of
• 30:03
  mechanism to to sort of trigger or prompt people to do that?
• 30:09
  Yeah. So, I mean, as I said, what we
• 30:12
  encourage is, you know, daily or at least weekly reflection on,
• 30:17
  on the, and it depends on the individual, what is the, what
• 30:20
  are the, the biggest things that they want to change?
• 30:23
  But to go back and reflect on their day and, or on their week
• 30:29
  and, and say, OK, well, how, how you know, what was the, what was
• 30:33
  the situation? How did I react?
• 30:35
  How did I feel? How would I like to have
• 30:39
  responded and repeating that again and again?
• 30:43
  Because then then you bring it back up from the from the
• 30:47
  default pattern to something that you can then actively
• 30:52
  change. OK.
• 30:53
  So how do you then make that shift to actually changing?
• 30:59
  Because you're looking back at the situation and you're
• 31:02
  creating sort of, let's say creating the delta between this
• 31:06
  is what how I felt versus this is how I would have liked to
• 31:10
  have felt. How do you help people
• 31:15
  transition from from one to the next?
• 31:18
  So as I said, so awareness is the first step, reflection back
• 31:23
  is the second step, and then the third, the third one is then
• 31:28
  actually being aware in the moment it happens and creating
• 31:32
  that little bit of space between the action or the situation and
• 31:38
  the response. And in that space you can then
• 31:42
  choose how to respond. Because you in in the beginning,
• 31:46
  the situation triggers an automatic reaction, but through
• 31:51
  awareness and and sort of repetition, you create the space
• 31:55
  where you can choose how to respond.
• 31:58
  OK, so because you start to recognize the situations, you
• 32:03
  actually get the sort of, yeah, let's call it permission for you
• 32:10
  create a permission for yourself to to just step back for a
• 32:13
  second, say hey, oh, this is that old thing again.
• 32:19
  This is what we didn't want. And then now.
• 32:22
  I can choose. Now I can choose and then as a
• 32:25
  question. I suppose this is a matter of
• 32:28
  repetition before it becomes the new normal.
• 32:34
  Exactly. So it doesn't change overnight.
• 32:37
  And sometimes, you know, we, we look at ways to change it over,
• 32:41
  over overnight. But I think awareness,
• 32:46
  repetition are are the ways to create lasting change.
• 32:50
  Yeah, So how do your wealth circles fit into this?
• 32:57
  So the wealth circles we run with either online or offline on
• 33:03
  a monthly basis. So bringing women together to
• 33:07
  create the space to talk about self worth, wealth, money.
• 33:12
  So yeah. So, so that is where we create
• 33:15
  the, the awareness and the safe space for self reflection.
• 33:19
  And then between the circles, then the women have the time
• 33:23
  kind of, I guess, to, to practice and then come back and,
• 33:29
  and reflect on, OK, how did it go?
• 33:30
  How, how, how am I behaving differently or not?
• 33:35
  And share their stories and realize that they are not alone.
• 33:38
  I mean, a lot of of the patterns that we, we have are similar
• 33:45
  between us because the societal programs are similar because we,
• 33:50
  we live, you know, in the same, in the same society.
• 33:54
  So in the in the end goal is to help women especially to stop
• 34:02
  seek that external validation part and to to trust their own
• 34:08
  yeah instinct when it comes to money.
• 34:12
  What results have you seen so far?
• 34:15
  I work quite a lot with solo entrepreneurs, small
• 34:19
  entrepreneurs. So one thing that I've had
• 34:22
  feedback from from some several of them has been that they have
• 34:27
  been able to change their pricing.
• 34:30
  And that's, I think, a very, you know, concrete.
• 34:33
  Yeah, tangible. Link between wealth and self
• 34:37
  worth or the fact that you value yourself enough to be able to
• 34:41
  ask for higher pricing and, and yeah, so that's been really,
• 34:46
  really good to hear but also when it comes to, you know,
• 34:50
  managing wealth, so savings, investments and so on, which is
• 34:56
  another big theme where, where unfortunately women tend to
• 35:01
  invest less. And, and that there I've also
• 35:04
  had feedback where, you know, immediately after a circle
• 35:07
  someone wrote to me and said, oh, I actually went back home.
• 35:10
  I logged into my online trading account.
• 35:13
  I did a review of my investments and I made changes because I
• 35:21
  hear a lot that, oh, I don't really want to look at it.
• 35:23
  I kind of ignore it I because we don't feel so confident in, in,
• 35:30
  in investing, for example. So we tend to to, yeah.
• 35:35
  Yeah, avoid. It the decision.
• 35:38
  Yeah, yeah. The the the easiest decision is
• 35:42
  always to just follow the index, yeah, which is I think a very
• 35:47
  good start for at least. Absolutely.
• 35:49
  I mean, that's a very good start, but even just to go in
• 35:52
  and look at it and see, OK, is it going up or down?
• 35:55
  Sometimes we just choose not to even look, which I think is a
• 36:00
  shame because then we don't become familiar with what's
• 36:04
  actually happening and the fact that we are responsible for at
• 36:08
  least being aware of of our finances.
• 36:11
  OK. Because that's interesting,
• 36:14
  because I worked for an asset manager for a long time and I've
• 36:18
  always been told, like most of the investments you do, you just
• 36:22
  set it and forget it. Yeah, absolutely.
• 36:26
  I think that that there is, there is, you know, good advice
• 36:32
  in that as well that you shouldn't be trying to sort of
• 36:36
  be more clever maybe than the investment and, and, and
• 36:39
  obviously with compound interests, you're in it for the
• 36:42
  long term and so on. But that doesn't mean that you,
• 36:47
  I think there's a difference between doing that and kind of
• 36:51
  being confident in that. What in, in, in that you've done
• 36:54
  that and, and, and feeling that. Oh, I don't want to look at it
• 36:58
  because because it comes from feelings of being afraid or not
• 37:04
  confident and and I think that. Just dive back into the results
• 37:09
  training that you're rewarded for results.
• 37:13
  Yeah, probably so. Because you're afraid of the
• 37:16
  result that might not be in line with what you hoped for,
• 37:21
  expected slash thought it would be, and as a result you don't
• 37:26
  look. Yeah, Yeah, I think so.
• 37:29
  I think that probably there is something around that that like
• 37:33
  also taking it personally then I did not do well because I did
• 37:39
  this. So yeah.
• 37:41
  Because it was my decision to invest in this fund or this
• 37:45
  company and it didn't perform as well.
• 37:48
  I feel less, less good as as a result less confident.
• 37:54
  It's interesting. I'm starting to recognize a
• 37:57
  couple of patterns in my own head.
• 37:59
  By the way, just just for context of listeners, my mind's
• 38:04
  racing right now. So I have a question about the
• 38:10
  the investment part and a more risky part because I think
• 38:13
  you've also been AVC in venture capital.
• 38:17
  No, I just work as an advisor and we were so advising
• 38:21
  entrepreneurs and then we work on the VC side with VC
• 38:26
  companies. But myself, no.
• 38:27
  Oh. OK, So you're, you're you're
• 38:30
  more an advisor as on both ends. Yeah.
• 38:32
  But I'm going to ask the question then differently.
• 38:35
  How do we get more women to invest in, let's say more risky
• 38:40
  asset classes like like startups?
• 38:43
  Because I've I'm I'm start trying to form my own faults on
• 38:46
  this. I was wondering how you look at
• 38:49
  it. I think there are two things.
• 38:52
  No, they are probably more more than that.
• 38:54
  But one is of course as around risk.
• 38:58
  Women tend to be more risk conscious.
• 39:03
  I would like to use the word conscious instead of averse,
• 39:08
  but. Women are not less risk averse
• 39:12
  than men. They can be more more risk
• 39:15
  taking, but they need more information.
• 39:18
  Yeah. And so I think that that is, you
• 39:22
  know, part of then how do you, you know, create situations that
• 39:26
  the women feel that they are in a position to take that risk.
• 39:30
  I think it's also, I mean, I would like to split, split it
• 39:36
  also because I think that ownership is, is, is very
• 39:38
  important and being aware that with through ownership, we can
• 39:41
  impact the world. So obviously there's the VC and
• 39:45
  the more institutional way to invest and own, but there's also
• 39:49
  as individuals or Angel investors, you don't have to
• 39:53
  have huge amount of capital to own.
• 39:59
  And and there again it becomes. It comes back, I think a little
• 40:03
  bit to the self worth feeling confident that I, I have the
• 40:09
  capability and also the right to own and impact through
• 40:15
  ownership. And so we, we encourage, I mean,
• 40:19
  I mean, step one is investing, you know, through the stock
• 40:21
  market and so on. Step 2, I think is Angel
• 40:24
  consortiums and so on to, to, for, for normal women to have
• 40:29
  more possibilities to invest. And then Step 3 is then working,
• 40:33
  as we said, you know, from, from early from, you know,
• 40:39
  encouraging women at, at university and early in their
• 40:42
  careers to see the opportunity to also work in these, in these
• 40:47
  businesses as, as VCs in, in the investment industry.
• 40:53
  And there are initiatives at the university level and and entry
• 40:58
  level to encourage more women to become investors.
• 41:01
  OK, so how do you, how do you look at the whole theme of women
• 41:05
  investing in women for the purposes of of increasing the
• 41:10
  amount of money that is invested in female LED startups?
• 41:14
  Yeah, I think that obviously we want everyone to invest in
• 41:18
  everyone in general. But I do think that in many
• 41:26
  cases, women investing in in women and women, you know,
• 41:30
  female investors investing in, in, in female founded companies,
• 41:36
  there can be a good synergy because of the types of
• 41:41
  companies that women tend to, you know, be maybe more over
• 41:46
  representative when it comes to impact business businesses, You
• 41:53
  know, femtech and female health, which is a more growing industry
• 41:57
  and a very important industry. And so if women tend to invest
• 42:01
  with maybe a little bit more heart, then there's a nice fit
• 42:06
  there with with actually impacting the world and
• 42:10
  supporting those businesses to thrive by investing.
• 42:14
  Is it also in part reducing? Because I've had this discussion
• 42:20
  with my girlfriend and she said well I'm not that rich so I
• 42:27
  don't have a boatload of money lying around, but I would like
• 42:31
  to make a difference with. But then I'm sort of limited to
• 42:36
  let's say smaller ticket sizes. My question is, do you think the
• 42:41
  smaller ticket sizes are a good idea?
• 42:44
  Yeah, I think because I think their community comes in to
• 42:48
  play. So, you know, investing as a
• 42:53
  Angel consortium or pulling your investments investment clubs,
• 42:59
  there are different ways to invest, even if you don't have a
• 43:03
  lot of, you know, a lot of money, of course, very easily on
• 43:07
  the through an investment app. But even if you want to do
• 43:10
  direct investments into, into companies, working with other
• 43:17
  experienced or less experienced Angel investors is a good way
• 43:21
  to, to, you know, create a little bit more impact by
• 43:25
  pulling together resources. I think those are models, you
• 43:30
  know, from Africa as well. I don't remember what, what the,
• 43:34
  the real name is, but the, you know, investing clubs in, in
• 43:39
  rural societies where, where women tend to, to, to work
• 43:44
  together to support each other with, with investments within
• 43:47
  the community is a good example of that as well.
• 43:51
  Oh. That I didn't know about.
• 43:53
  I think there's a bit, quite a bit to learn about how to make
• 43:57
  that work. So OK, so I want to move a bit
• 44:02
  towards the future. Let's let's say the wealth
• 44:06
  within our becomes wealthy, successful, and you manage to
• 44:12
  educate a lot of women on taking control of their own finances
• 44:16
  and control of their own self worth.
• 44:18
  What will have changed in 2032 if you reach that goal?
• 44:22
  I think women own their definitions of wealth and wealth
• 44:29
  goes beyond financial measures. So it's around, you know, well
• 44:34
  impact time, etcetera. I think that is that is an
• 44:39
  something that will have changed.
• 44:41
  The T-shirts, slogans on girls T-shirts will not, you know,
• 44:46
  tell them to smile, but to invest and explore and be bold
• 44:51
  and brave. But I think it's really about
• 44:53
  owning our own definitions of wealth.
• 44:56
  Because when when you when you own it and believe it for
• 45:02
  yourself, then you have the power to to make decisions that
• 45:07
  align with your own beliefs. OK.
• 45:10
  And for female founders, where you see, do you see their
• 45:13
  opportunities? Yeah.
• 45:15
  So similarly it's about, you know, the the inner inner
• 45:20
  confidence and inner self belief.
• 45:22
  And I believe that the way founders and the investment
• 45:30
  ecosystems communicate will have also changed.
• 45:33
  So that, you know, someone pitching with, with a certain
• 45:39
  style is not in itself a guarantee for investment or not,
• 45:45
  but that we have more, more openness to different
• 45:49
  communication styles and so on. And so that that the the ideas
• 45:54
  and the and the founders have the ability to to shine through
• 45:59
  even if they don't fit what is the traditional mold now of a of
• 46:03
  a founder? Yeah.
• 46:04
  And then VCs also have to start looking at like if, if it's
• 46:08
  another white guy, yeah, maybe he can be capable or she can be.
• 46:14
  Capable, yeah. But I think there it's like, you
• 46:17
  know, confidence doesn't not automatically mean competence
• 46:20
  and the other way around because we have different ways of being
• 46:24
  in different communication styles and expression and and
• 46:27
  there has to be more acceptance of that.
• 46:29
  OK. Thanks.
• 46:32
  That's an interesting one to, to turn it around because I was
• 46:35
  more like, OK, the biases on the on the, we know that white guys
• 46:41
  can deliver. So we invest in white guys
• 46:43
  because that's what the way it has always been.
• 46:48
  But it's more what I'm hearing you say.
• 46:50
  It's more nuanced on communication style, confidence
• 46:53
  and. Yeah.
• 46:54
  I mean, yes, white guys have have delivered because they are
• 46:58
  the only ones who've had the chance.
• 46:59
  But also we know that not all white guys deliver, but they
• 47:03
  sound confident and therefore they get the money anyway
• 47:06
  sometimes. They they get away with a lot of
• 47:08
  BS. Yeah, yeah.
• 47:11
  So I'm on a mission to make diversity in tech and inclusion
• 47:17
  in tech, especially the new normal by the end of 2032.
• 47:21
  Based on your experience, what is a bold move that we can all
• 47:28
  take? So I've talked a lot about
• 47:29
  awareness, but I think to take that even further, measuring,
• 47:34
  tracking and, and and incentivizing those who are
• 47:40
  already leading in tech based on what we've talked about South,
• 47:45
  based on the fact that women and, and men still tend to, to,
• 47:52
  to behave differently, I think that can have a real impact.
• 47:55
  Just one example is, for example, we talked about
• 47:59
  negotiating salaries and so on. But if if you don't, you know,
• 48:06
  change the job descriptions to attract more women and know and
• 48:13
  are aware of the fact that women will apply for a job if they
• 48:16
  meet 100% of the job criteria, but a guy will apply if you need
• 48:20
  60, then you're going to exclude women if your job description
• 48:24
  looks a certain way. So, so yeah, being aware of
• 48:27
  that, but also tracking then how are you actually performing on
• 48:32
  that will make a big difference I think.
• 48:35
  Yeah, true. And how do we incent?
• 48:38
  How can I incentivize women without making it about to
• 48:44
  result so more recognizing them for the effort?
• 48:49
  Yeah. I mean, I think that that is
• 48:52
  that that's the again, the example with with the job
• 48:56
  descriptions encouraging women to apply even if they don't meet
• 49:00
  100% of of the job criteria. That's that's, you know,
• 49:06
  awarding them for the effort of applying, not for being perf
• 49:11
  being a perfect match, but they need to be aware that they don't
• 49:14
  have to to have the results from the beginning to to be
• 49:20
  considered, you know, a good match, for example.
• 49:23
  That's absolutely strong, strong point to to finish on.
• 49:27
  Kathleen Remberg, thank you very much for an amazing
• 49:31
  conversation. If people want to learn more
• 49:33
  about you and the wealth within her, where can they find that?
• 49:39
  So Instagram, LinkedIn, Spotify and our own website is all at
• 49:45
  the wealth within her.com, so very easy to find.
• 49:50
  There's also a podcast. There's also a podcast, yes.
• 49:53
  OK, so we'll link to that in the show notes.
• 49:57
  So again, thank you very much for the conversation.
• 50:01
  Really enjoyed it. And listeners, thank you very
• 50:04
  much for listening. Until the next episode, keep
• 50:08
  being awesome. Well, that's a wrap for episode
• 50:15
  114 of Women Disrupting Tech with Catherine Reinberg, titled
• 50:20
  How the wealth within our Empowers Women's Finances and
• 50:24
  Self worth. Catherine and I hope that you
• 50:27
  found our conversation as empowering and motivating as we
• 50:31
  intended it to be. And if you have any questions
• 50:34
  for Catherine, please leave them in the comments on Spotify,
• 50:38
  Apple or YouTube. I'll make sure you'll receive an
• 50:41
  answer. When you want to connect with
• 50:43
  Catherine or learn more about The Wealth Withinner.
• 50:46
  Please check out the links in the show notes.
• 50:49
  As usual, you can find the show notes at Women Disrupting
• 50:52
  Tactile Block and the link is also in the description.
• 50:55
  And if you're a woman and you're done playing small with your
• 50:59
  money, please check out their program, The Wealth Shift.
• 51:02
  It starts in September. And of course, that link is also
• 51:06
  in the show notes. If you enjoyed this episode,
• 51:09
  please consider leaving a rating or a review on Apple or Spotify.
• 51:14
  Leaving a rating or a review helps new listeners find podcast
• 51:18
  and supports my guests by giving them a bigger platform.
• 51:22
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• 51:25
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• 51:29
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• 51:33
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• 51:37
  in tech to new normal by the end of 2032.
• 51:40
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• 51:44
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• 51:48
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• 51:51
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• 51:55
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• 51:58
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• 52:03
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• 52:06
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• 52:12
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• 52:17
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• 52:21
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• 52:25
  me a connection request. With that, I wish you a
• 52:28
  wonderful day. I hope to see you in the next
• 52:31
  episode, and until then, as always, keep being awesome.