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You've Been Gilmored: Lara C. Stache & Rachel Davidson · I Am All In with Scott Patterson

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Speaker 1: I am all in. Let's just do.
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Speaker 2: I Am all in with Scott Patterson an iHeartRadio podcast.
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Speaker 1: Hey everybody, Scott Patterson, I Am all In podcast, one
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Speaker 1: of them production's iHeart Radio. We've got one on one
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Speaker 1: interview with two very distinguished women, so it's really a
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Speaker 1: two on once, a one on two interview with Lara
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Speaker 1: Stash and Rachel Davidson. And they are notable in that.
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Speaker 1: Lara's Assistant professor and Division of Communication, Visual Performing Arts
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Speaker 1: at Governor State University and writes about gender, rhetoric, popular culture.
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Speaker 1: She's an author of Breaking Bad Cultural History, Rowing in
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Speaker 1: a Little Field twenty seventeen. Rachel Davidson is Assistant professor
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Speaker 1: in the Department of Communication Hanover College. Or Research broadly
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Speaker 1: addresses rhetoric, rhetoric, and popular culture with interested in motherhood, caregiving,
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Speaker 1: and social advocacy. But they wrote a book. They got together.
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Speaker 1: They wrote a book called Gilmore Girls, A Cultural History.
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Speaker 1: It's no longer just a cult classic. Gillmore Girls is
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Speaker 1: a cultural staple for TV fans, so this is going
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Speaker 1: to be okay. So in Gilmore Girls a Cultural History,
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Speaker 1: the author's offering engaging analysis a popular see of the
1:37
Speaker 1: popular series. The author examine how the show serves as
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Speaker 1: a representation of American culture, politics, reflects complexity within multiple
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Speaker 1: mother daughter dynamics, and unemployed literature, movies, music, and a
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Speaker 1: lot of cultural stuff that really smart academic ladies say.
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Speaker 1: So we've got them on. Thank you for coming on.
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Speaker 3: Ladies, thank you for having us.
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Speaker 1: We're very, very excited. So tell us about the book itself,
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Speaker 1: how it got started, How you two came up with
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Speaker 1: the idea.
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Speaker 4: I started watching Gilmore Girls back when I was in college,
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Speaker 4: So I mean, I have loved this series forever, A
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Speaker 4: huge fan. I've got my hep Alien shirt on which
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Speaker 4: your listeners cannot see, but I will let you know
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Speaker 4: I am a big fan. And I tried to convince
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Speaker 4: Rachel to watch the show, and Rachel so that you
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Speaker 4: will not know about her until I tell you this.
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Speaker 4: She is very stubborn and she wish not watch it
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Speaker 4: until finally and I said, there's so much here. You've
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Speaker 4: got two girls like you, you'll love it. There's all
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Speaker 4: this pop culture stuff. And she finally couldn't resist me
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Speaker 4: and watched it and fell in love. And so we
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Speaker 4: were trying to decide what we wanted to work on
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Speaker 4: our next project. And I said, after having I'd done
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Speaker 4: the Breaking Bad book, and I said, there's only one
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Speaker 4: other series that I know better than that one, and
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Speaker 4: that is Gilmour Girls. And she was like, I'm all.
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Speaker 3: In, So.
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Speaker 1: Man, here you are on I am all in.
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Speaker 2: I'm stubborn. And Lara is very patient because she waited
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Speaker 2: for me to watch this show for so long and
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Speaker 2: for me to get I think I needed my girls
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Speaker 2: to get to an age where they wanted to watch
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Speaker 2: the show with me. And then when I did, oh
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Speaker 2: my gosh, it just landed on me so hard. And
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Speaker 2: Lara I could we were talking on the phone and
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Speaker 2: I could see her smile just growing and she was
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Speaker 2: waiting for that moment.
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Speaker 3: Okay, so you're hooked. We're writing a book, all right.
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Speaker 1: So let me let me ask you the big question
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Speaker 1: right at the top. Why is the show such a
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Speaker 1: cultural staple for TV fans?
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Speaker 4: Because I, well, I think Star's Hollow is kind of
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Speaker 4: this bubble and you can have these crazy, cooky, off
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Speaker 4: the wall personalities and just genuine affection for one another
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Speaker 4: and community. You have these witty pop culture references, and
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Speaker 4: I think you've gotten into this in a lot of
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Speaker 4: your episodes in the podcast, is like every time you
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Speaker 4: watch it there's something new, right, Like every time you
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Speaker 4: make different connections. And I think there's just something about
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Speaker 4: being able to go back and visit it. I always
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Speaker 4: say Stars Hollow is my happy place, and I think
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Speaker 4: if I actually live there, it might drive me crazy.
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Speaker 4: But I love visiting and it just the relationships are important.
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Speaker 4: I don't know, everything just is. It's sort of this
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Speaker 4: beautiful package.
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Speaker 1: So mm hmmm, Rachel, how do you feel about that?
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Speaker 2: I would just add that I think you know one
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Speaker 2: comforting aspect of the show. Every time I watch one
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Speaker 2: of the shows that has a town meeting, and the
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Speaker 2: town meeting's full, and some people are annoyed, some people
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Speaker 2: are falling asleep, some people are enjoying it. But the
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Speaker 2: fact is that all the people are there. And I
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Speaker 2: think that's something that we are missing, at least I'm
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Speaker 2: missing in some of my communities that I've lived in,
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Speaker 2: is just to have all of these people that come
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Speaker 2: together for the benefit of their community, that cares so
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Speaker 2: much about their community. And I think that's what I
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Speaker 2: love about what a lot of people love about Stars Hollow,
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Speaker 2: In particular, a.
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Speaker 1: Man that is an interesting observation because the town hall
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Speaker 1: meeting really roots the show in history, in American history,
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Speaker 1: because you can see going back to the eighteen hundreds
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Speaker 1: and seventeen hundreds, even the sixteen hundreds, you know, people
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Speaker 1: having those same types of meetings about what's going to
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Speaker 1: go on in that town and will they you know that,
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Speaker 1: you know, you know this, this will these horses continue
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Speaker 1: to leave their droppings here and we've got to do
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Speaker 1: something that's affecting the chicken coop. And that's a very
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Speaker 1: very interesting conversation. It really does link the show toward
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Speaker 1: you know, and it's an historic town as well.
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Speaker 2: So one of our chapters in the book is just
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Speaker 2: about that phenomenon, like what is it about stars Hollow
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Speaker 2: that is so appealing? And one a couple of things
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Speaker 2: that we wrote about is that, for one, Stars Hollow
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Speaker 2: is kind of untouched by commercialism. We're not seeing any
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Speaker 2: Starbucks or Applebee's or you know whatever. We have all
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Speaker 2: of these mom and pop shops. And then also just
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Speaker 2: the idea that, you know, one thing that we think
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Speaker 2: might be reflected in this in Stars Hollow is the
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Speaker 2: idea that there there's been a loss of small townness
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Speaker 2: in American culture, and so maybe Stars Hollow is one
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Speaker 2: way that we're kind of satisfying that need for community
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Speaker 2: and smallness and in our towns in which we live.
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Speaker 1: I couldn't agree with you more. I mean, I'm all
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Speaker 1: about small tones. Okay, So let's get into and and
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Speaker 1: And that is why people talk about stars Hollow as
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Speaker 1: a very very important character in the show, maybe the
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Speaker 1: most important character in the show, because what what a
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Speaker 1: what what a backdrop you know to bounce everything off of.
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Speaker 1: So yeah, all modernity invading and how how conflicting and
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Speaker 1: how funny that can be and and hence you know,
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Speaker 1: the tone of the show. What. So let's talk about
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Speaker 1: the mother daughter relationship. I know you want to get
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Speaker 1: into that. So what are your thoughts on h on
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Speaker 1: on the Lurlai Rory relationship.
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Speaker 4: I think that is why there are so many viewers
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Speaker 4: of different ages that find something because it's like the
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Speaker 4: r Rory Lrelai relationship, but also the Laurel I Emily
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Speaker 4: relationship and the Emily Rory relationship and the missus Kim
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Speaker 4: and Lane relationship. Like there's all these mother daughter dynam
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Speaker 4: that just can appeal to everyone. Right, Like my mom
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Speaker 4: watched the show. Rachel's daughters watched the show. We sort
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Speaker 4: of spanning generations who absolutely love watching that, and I
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Speaker 4: think we get into this, you know that I'm always
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Speaker 4: fascinated by people that are like I want to be
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Speaker 4: like you know, Rory and laurl I with my daughter
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Speaker 4: or whatever, or my mother. And it's like their relationship
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Speaker 4: was dysfunctional in a lot of ways, like it was
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Speaker 4: it was meant to be kind of, you know, not
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Speaker 4: perfect imperfect, which I think is also a comfort because
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Speaker 4: they cared about each other so much even if it wasn't.
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Speaker 2: Perfect, right right, right, Laura, you said that beautifully. The
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Speaker 2: only thing I would add is, you know, speaking to
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Speaker 2: what Laura was talking about, as how it appeals to
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Speaker 2: different generations and where you're at at different stages in
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Speaker 2: your life. I remember my mom just recently telling me
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Speaker 2: that she was drawn to the show when it first
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Speaker 2: came out because of the representation of Laura as a
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Speaker 2: single mother, which was something and not just the representation
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Speaker 2: of a single mother, but one that is without shame
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Speaker 2: about that kind of status. And my mom was in
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Speaker 2: a similar situation and she loved that there was a brilliant, funny, witty,
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Speaker 2: single mother who who you know, she could see in
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Speaker 2: a situation similar to her own, So that it's one
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Speaker 2: thing I think that the show did really well too.
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Speaker 1: So in a way, Laurel I was a real touchstone
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Speaker 1: for all mothers, and especially all single mothers, and especially
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Speaker 1: all daughters of single mothers or daughters that wish their
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Speaker 1: fathers wouldn't be there, because she went through life saying
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Speaker 1: everything that every mother, married or single wishes they had said,
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Speaker 1: because she's basically going through life as a stand up
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Speaker 1: comic and making light and making fun and being irreverend
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Speaker 1: and being hysterically funny and being herself and being and
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Speaker 1: keeping her power all at the same time.
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Speaker 3: And I think too unapologetically herself. I think maybe that's what.
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Speaker 2: I was trying to say with the same piece, right,
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Speaker 2: just yeah, just her authentic being, and that's okay. I
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Speaker 2: wish I could live my life like Lareli as a
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Speaker 2: stand up comedian. I'm not that quick on my feet.
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Speaker 1: Right, right, right right. It's so aspirational in that regard,
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Speaker 1: because I think it's one of the things I take
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Speaker 1: away from the show, say, boy, can you imagine going
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Speaker 1: through life like that? How fun would that be to
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Speaker 1: have that kind of a brain that's going to be
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Speaker 1: so quippy and so clever and so immediately boom all
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Speaker 1: the time, the fast and the funnies all the time,
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Speaker 1: and every.
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Speaker 3: Emily is very similar.
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Speaker 2: I mean one go for me, I think, you know
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Speaker 2: that is where I see Lorelai getting her wit and humor.
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Speaker 2: I think Emily, I mean, her delivery is very different
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Speaker 2: than Laurelize. Not necessarily as you know, a stand up comedian,
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Speaker 2: but oh my gosh, so many lap out loud moments
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Speaker 2: with Emily.
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Speaker 3: She's so I love that dynamic at Emily and Voorne.
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Speaker 4: Her values sort of come from a different place. But
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Speaker 4: even Emily's friends say, oh you're you're quick like your mother.
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Speaker 4: And a lot of the lines we pulled out best
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Speaker 4: line for every single episode. It's in the back of
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Speaker 4: the book, and a lot of the lines are Emily's
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Speaker 4: as much as they are Lorealies or the rest of
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Speaker 4: the town. Like everyone got good lines, which is I
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Speaker 4: think really important.
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Speaker 1: Can you go through the topics that the book covers.
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Speaker 4: Yeah, so we look at relationships. The first part of
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Speaker 4: the book looks at the relationships. We look at the
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Speaker 4: mother daughter dynamic, we look at fatherhood, and representations like
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Speaker 4: with Luke and Richard and Christopher, because you know, he
11:44
Speaker 4: was this really important father figure, although inconsistent, it was
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Speaker 4: a you know, sort of a huge part of the plot.
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Speaker 4: We look at friendship, and then we look at feminism
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Speaker 4: in the show and how the show really deals with
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Speaker 4: that and how Amy Sherman Palladino had talked about how
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Speaker 4: she wanted it to deal with it. And then we
12:05
Speaker 4: look at popular culture and the value of talking about
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Speaker 4: popular culture. We look at issues of class because that's
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Speaker 4: a huge theme. I mean, it's it's the undercurrents why
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Speaker 4: more life ran right, and then the small town living.
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Speaker 1: It's also why she hasn't really changed that much.
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Speaker 4: Yes, yeah, yeah.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, the tension between the classes in her living in
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Speaker 1: a place that doesn't really recognize that. I mean, it's
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Speaker 1: it's just a brilliant It's a brilliant, brilliant jumping off point,
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Speaker 1: isn't it. It really is. I mean, if you were
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Speaker 1: going to conceive a show, you know that would I mean,
12:43
Speaker 1: and you said, because because what do writers do when
12:47
Speaker 1: they're creating drama or they're creating comedy. They have to
12:49
Speaker 1: create tension? So what brilliant, brilliant brilliant way to configure
12:54
Speaker 1: some characters and just it just all works. I mean
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Speaker 1: it works right away.
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Speaker 4: Yeah, And starting in season one, you start to get
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Speaker 4: that tension where Lorelai ran so far away from it
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Speaker 4: and now Rory's inching her way back and Laura cannot
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Speaker 4: wrap her head around it. She doesn't know how to
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Speaker 4: feel about it, and it's complicated. It's the relationship with
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Speaker 4: her parents, but it's also just that life. And you
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Speaker 4: see that throughout every season. She starts dating Logan, she starts,
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Speaker 4: you know, sort of when Rory gets out of that
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Speaker 4: limo after the party after Dean breaks up with her,
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Speaker 4: and she's wearing the diamonds and she's like clearly had
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Speaker 4: a little bit to drink and she you know, and
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Speaker 4: Laura's just looking out the window. It's just the saddest
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Speaker 4: because it was not what she wanted for her daughter.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, but it's maybe what she wanted for herself and
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Speaker 1: what missed out.
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Speaker 4: On, Yes, and attention constantly is it that she feels
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Speaker 4: like maybe she didn't want to run so far from
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Speaker 4: that life. She like went too far to extremes, which
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Speaker 4: would totally fit with Laura because she's, you know, she's
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Speaker 4: not perfect. She makes pretty extreme choices, right.
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Speaker 1: Yes, yes, for sure. Yeah, we were just discussing her
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Speaker 1: marriage proposal to Luke. So let's talk a little bit
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Speaker 1: about the Luke and Laura l I dynamic here. Do
14:16
Speaker 1: you go into the talk discuss that discuss.
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Speaker 3: That we love Luke.
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Speaker 4: I'm telling each other, do not call him Luke. His
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Speaker 4: name is Scott.
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Speaker 3: Yes.
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Speaker 2: And before I forget Scott, I wanted to tell you
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Speaker 2: I promised my My youngest daughter is eighteen. Her name
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Speaker 2: is Ivy, and she wanted me to tell you that
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Speaker 2: Luke is her favorite character because Luke reminds her of
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Speaker 2: her dad, which is my husband John. And also she
14:46
Speaker 2: loves the sarcasm and your your humor, Luke's humor.
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Speaker 1: Shout out to Ivy, Ivy appreciate it.
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Speaker 4: Yeah, I think you know. I've watched this series now.
15:00
Speaker 4: I'm probably on my twelve viewing of it. I kind
15:02
Speaker 4: of keep it on in the background, so it's kind of,
15:04
Speaker 4: you know, always going. But I was watching it recently
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Speaker 4: and I think there's this episode, the eight o'clock at
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Speaker 4: the Oasis episode where Richard calls Laurali and he's like,
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Speaker 4: you have to fix this situation. You got to go
15:18
Speaker 4: on that second date with Peyton played by John Hamm
15:21
Speaker 4: right like you have to fix this. He's like, your
15:23
Speaker 4: mother did not get the first cup of tea. And
15:26
Speaker 4: they go back and forth and she's like this is insane,
15:28
Speaker 4: and he goes, of course it's insane, like this is insane,
15:31
Speaker 4: but my wife wants that tea. She's getting the first
15:33
Speaker 4: cup of tea. So we're gonna fix this. And I
15:36
Speaker 4: it occurred to me that it was beautiful, Like that's
15:40
Speaker 4: the most romantic moment they have, like this love where
15:43
Speaker 4: he's just like, I know it's crazy, but I'm gonna
15:45
Speaker 4: make it happen for her. And I think Luke does
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Speaker 4: that for LAURALI I think consistently realizes that what she
15:52
Speaker 4: wants is sometimes crazy and wacky, and she, like you know,
15:56
Speaker 4: has all these sort of zany ideas, and he makes
15:59
Speaker 4: it happen. Builds an isolating rink, and he creates a
16:02
Speaker 4: fishing pond, and he bakes a cake for her daughter,
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Speaker 4: and you know, like he just he's there for her
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Speaker 4: and even if it's not something he understands fully, he
16:14
Speaker 4: is there to help her. And so I think that's
16:15
Speaker 4: why their relationship is just so fun to watch and
16:20
Speaker 4: so romantic.
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Speaker 2: It's so romantic, and I love the the slowness over
16:26
Speaker 2: the seasons of how it evolves and changes and how
16:31
Speaker 2: tension is is created. I just I love from the
16:34
Speaker 2: very first episode how Luke you know, portrays this like
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Speaker 2: protective you know, protective persona over both Rory and laurel I.
16:47
Speaker 2: One of my favorite episodes is when Luke rents or
16:50
Speaker 2: buys the the self help tapes about love and tries
16:56
Speaker 2: tries to hide them, but then he sees Laurali's face
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Speaker 2: and then he's like, whoa is I just love it love.
17:05
Speaker 3: Yes, I love that relationship.
17:07
Speaker 2: And one thing I think is really cool and was
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Speaker 2: distinct about Luke and Larelli's relationship as opposed to Larelei
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Speaker 2: and some of her other suitors was I think Luke
17:17
Speaker 2: bridged both.
17:18
Speaker 3: Like passionate love and companionate love.
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Speaker 2: So there was something It wasn't just that romantic side,
17:25
Speaker 2: but then there was also the long term companionate aspect
17:30
Speaker 2: of their relationship.
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Speaker 1: Right. They knew how to relax and hang with each other, right, Yeah,
17:35
Speaker 1: it wasn't all needy all the time. Yeah, you're talking
17:39
Speaker 1: about two pretty rebellious individuals who were really rooted in
17:45
Speaker 1: their individuality coming together and not sort of trying to
17:49
Speaker 1: invade each other's territory all the time. So there's a
17:52
Speaker 1: lot it's still a lot of tension there too, and
17:53
Speaker 1: there's like that class element to it because he ate
17:56
Speaker 1: from the upper rungs is a soyah. It was an
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Speaker 1: interesting dynamic, wasn't it. Yeah, it really was. Let's look
18:06
Speaker 1: at it from I mean, you brought up this feminist angle, right,
18:10
Speaker 1: and Amy shrim Palladino obviously steeped this show in feminism
18:14
Speaker 1: and talk about that as it relates to luc and
18:18
Speaker 1: Laurelized relationship and one thing specifically is that she proposed
18:22
Speaker 1: to him and how that sort of turned this all
18:25
Speaker 1: on its head. So talk about the feminist aspect first
18:29
Speaker 1: and how it affects that relationship.
18:31
Speaker 4: Yeah. Well, I think the show does a really good job.
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Speaker 4: We sort of talk about it in the book as
18:35
Speaker 4: like being very representative of contemporary feminism at the time.
18:39
Speaker 4: I think we've seen a bit of a shift post
18:41
Speaker 4: like Weinstein Me Too situation, But prior to that, these
18:46
Speaker 4: conversations were kind of couched. We talked about it, you know,
18:51
Speaker 4: but I think sort of this idea of bad feminism.
18:54
Speaker 4: Roxanne Gay, she's a feminist who brought up this idea
18:57
Speaker 4: of bad feminism and that there's not just this one
18:59
Speaker 4: way to be feminist. And so I think although Lorelai
19:04
Speaker 4: is very independent, I think she relies on Luke a lot,
19:08
Speaker 4: and I think that's part of her journey is figuring
19:10
Speaker 4: out how to let someone into her life and why
19:13
Speaker 4: it's such a slow build, but like let someone into
19:16
Speaker 4: her life and be a partner for her, because she
19:19
Speaker 4: really sort of embraced this, like it's just me and
19:22
Speaker 4: my daughter and I'm going to make this work, and
19:24
Speaker 4: she did a great job with it. But then her
19:26
Speaker 4: daughter goes off to school and has a life, and
19:29
Speaker 4: season four is all about her trying to figure out, like,
19:31
Speaker 4: now what is she going to do with her life?
19:33
Speaker 4: You know? So I think this show really plays with
19:36
Speaker 4: the tensions of feminism where we do it. It's not
19:40
Speaker 4: this idea of radical feminism, it's how do we do
19:42
Speaker 4: feminism in everyday life? And I think Luke was a
19:45
Speaker 4: great counterpart because he was both masculine but also very
19:50
Speaker 4: compassionate in his own way, and I love that she proposed.
19:55
Speaker 4: And then you'll get into you know, in season six
19:58
Speaker 4: when you guys start covering that, like there's a bit
20:00
Speaker 4: of tension there for him, where the town is kind
20:02
Speaker 4: of questioning like, oh, she proposed right, like, and he
20:06
Speaker 4: has to try to deal with that and figure out like, Okay,
20:09
Speaker 4: how do I feel about this? No, I'm fine with it, right,
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Speaker 4: And so I think their dynamic together sort of highlights
20:15
Speaker 4: any kind of I don't know, tensions with that.
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Speaker 1: So I have stated previously that I had a problem
20:23
Speaker 1: with her proposing to Luke because it was coming from
20:30
Speaker 1: a really greedy kind of actor place where I wanted
20:33
Speaker 1: to play those scenes and I didn't get a chance to,
20:36
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. I think that's really all
20:38
Speaker 1: it is. Anyway, Rachel, go ahead and chime in, Oh.
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Speaker 2: I was just gonna actually shift just a tiny bit.
20:43
Speaker 2: The other part in our book where we're talking about
20:45
Speaker 2: feminism is in the friendship chapter, which was really interesting
20:50
Speaker 2: to us and for Lauren and I to plush this out.
20:53
Speaker 2: But you know, typically what we, you know, at this time,
20:57
Speaker 2: would have seen in the portrayal of women is women
21:01
Speaker 2: in competition with each other. You know, women not very
21:06
Speaker 2: nice to each other, women not supporting each other. So
21:08
Speaker 2: one very refreshing aspect that we saw reflections of feminists
21:13
Speaker 2: and is all of these wonderful female friendships and supporting
21:17
Speaker 2: each other and supporting so that the emphasis isn't always
21:22
Speaker 2: on romantic relationships, but also in these these very functional
21:27
Speaker 2: female friendships between different women.
21:32
Speaker 1: Laura and her mother were at odds so often did
21:35
Speaker 1: you ever think, as fans watching the show and thinking
21:40
Speaker 1: about it, uh post viewing, that Laurela had crossed the
21:45
Speaker 1: line into into insanity and a complete uh not appreciate
21:52
Speaker 1: what her mother was trying to do or whether her
21:53
Speaker 1: father was trying to do. To talk about that a
21:55
Speaker 1: little bit, I.
21:57
Speaker 4: Mean, I think Amy Sherman, Palladino and Dani I think
22:00
Speaker 4: they have so many episodes where we can sympathize with Emily.
22:06
Speaker 4: I think lorele I is very well positioned as an
22:10
Speaker 4: unreliable narrator. She reacts emotionally very quickly, She doesn't always
22:15
Speaker 4: think things through, and she thinks she's right. And I
22:17
Speaker 4: think this the scene where she goes storming into Emily's
22:22
Speaker 4: house with Max Medina and is like, how couldn't you
22:25
Speaker 4: you don't care that I'm getting married? You're so cold?
22:28
Speaker 4: And Emily finally turns around and she's like, I know
22:30
Speaker 4: how you feel. How would you fill if a stranger
22:32
Speaker 4: told you your daughter was getting married? You know? And
22:35
Speaker 4: for Emily in that moment, not Laura. Couldn't she just
22:38
Speaker 4: tell her? Right? I mean, obviously conflict for the show,
22:40
Speaker 4: but I think that she's a very sympathetic character in
22:44
Speaker 4: a lot of ways while also being very frustrating as
22:48
Speaker 4: a mother and sort of you can see both sides
22:52
Speaker 4: of it a lot of times. And the one where
22:55
Speaker 4: Laurai writes the letter dear Emily and Richard yea episode
22:59
Speaker 4: is just you just want to give Emily a hug
23:02
Speaker 4: and be like that must have been like torture, you know.
23:06
Speaker 1: So, Rachel, why do you think Tricksie was kryptonite to Emily?
23:13
Speaker 1: Why did Emily lose all her powers around Trixy? And why?
23:19
Speaker 1: Let's yeah, so talk about that.
23:23
Speaker 2: I love so Trixies and maybe three episodes right, and that, Yeah,
23:29
Speaker 2: the dynamic that she brings in because I think in
23:33
Speaker 2: those moments we're seeing I think Emily in the place
23:38
Speaker 2: of Laura. I you know, we we wrote about you know,
23:42
Speaker 2: that kind of back and forth and you know, one
23:45
Speaker 2: thing that I have that I really loved in one
23:48
Speaker 2: of the episodes that Laura just talked about, Dear Emily
23:51
Speaker 2: and Richard, Trixy is not in there, so I'm debating
23:54
Speaker 2: just a little bit. But the way in which the
23:59
Speaker 2: show plays with identification with Emily, I think is really
24:04
Speaker 2: really smart, especially in those those moments when we're getting
24:07
Speaker 2: the backstory of Emily and we're seeing, you know, we're
24:11
Speaker 2: starting to kind of understand and explain some of her
24:16
Speaker 2: terrible behaviors towards Laurli and it starts to kind of
24:20
Speaker 2: click with viewers. I think it makes sense, and I
24:22
Speaker 2: think Trixy also does that, So we're starting to build
24:25
Speaker 2: some sympathy. We're seeing Emily in a very different role,
24:30
Speaker 2: not as you know, the Laurali's mom, but as a
24:34
Speaker 2: daughter in law herself. Laura, I know you have stuff
24:37
Speaker 2: to say about Tricksy too.
24:39
Speaker 4: Yeah, no, I know, I thought you that was great, Like,
24:42
Speaker 4: I think it's fascinating because she's in that position and
24:47
Speaker 4: yet she doesn't recognize how she does the same things
24:49
Speaker 4: to Laura. So you're just like, we're not learning here, right,
24:53
Speaker 4: But that's that's part of the I don't know, the
24:55
Speaker 4: appeal and the fact that Tricksy does like laurle i values,
25:01
Speaker 4: you know, gives her some validation for all that she's accomplished.
25:04
Speaker 4: I think was really important.
25:07
Speaker 2: And complicates as well, like the the arrangements between and
25:12
Speaker 2: the connections that that that Emily is trying to maintain
25:16
Speaker 2: in order to stay connected with Laura lyon y Where.
25:23
Speaker 1: Do you guys fall on this this season? End of
25:30
Speaker 1: season five, Rory going to living in the poolhouse at
25:34
Speaker 1: Grandma's house and dropping out of Yale.
25:36
Speaker 4: I think it was incredibly important. It needed to happen.
25:40
Speaker 4: And it's funny because when you rewatch the series over
25:43
Speaker 4: and over, you catch these moments and then I think
25:45
Speaker 4: it's the pilot or the first, you know, the second episode,
25:48
Speaker 4: Suki says to Laura, l I, now you know as
25:52
Speaker 4: Rory's about to go to Chilton, right like still early.
25:55
Speaker 4: Now you guys can have a normal mother daughter relationship
25:58
Speaker 4: where you fight and you you know you have that.
26:00
Speaker 4: And they still didn't really get there until this moment.
26:03
Speaker 4: They had fights, but this is like off fight and
26:06
Speaker 4: they have to figure it out separately, and I think
26:09
Speaker 4: it was an incredibly important moment. It is like torture
26:12
Speaker 4: to watch those though, because so much of the relate
26:16
Speaker 4: there's so much of the show is their relationships, so
26:18
Speaker 4: you're kind of in limbo. I love being able to
26:21
Speaker 4: binge them because I can just get through those and
26:23
Speaker 4: back to where they're together again.
26:25
Speaker 2: Yeah, as a viewer, it's so frustrating those months. I
26:29
Speaker 2: think it's like in the narrative of the show, it's
26:31
Speaker 2: five months maybe that they're separated, but then their reunification
26:37
Speaker 2: is one of my favorite moments of the show because
26:40
Speaker 2: I feel like, Okay, Laura, I putting all of these
26:43
Speaker 2: topics of conversations, like things I need to talk to
26:46
Speaker 2: Rory about when we come back together.
26:48
Speaker 3: That's me.
26:49
Speaker 2: I was like, I'm going to steal that in case
26:51
Speaker 2: I ever have any falling out with my children. But
26:54
Speaker 2: it's just such a beautiful coming together moment after that.
26:57
Speaker 2: And I agree with with Laura that as we were
27:02
Speaker 2: writing about that, I think I came to understand and
27:06
Speaker 2: appreciate that part of the show more than as a
27:08
Speaker 2: viewer being frustrated. I think it was it was necessary,
27:12
Speaker 2: and I think also it was now that I'm entering
27:15
Speaker 2: into empty nester stage, like I'm appreciating that that part
27:22
Speaker 2: of the show and Laura I really figuring out who
27:26
Speaker 2: she is without Rory because you know, I'm learning that
27:31
Speaker 2: your role as parent, Like I feel like I need
27:33
Speaker 2: a parenting book, just a parent, you know, adult children.
27:37
Speaker 2: And so that's a really interesting, you know phase that
27:42
Speaker 2: the show that the show presents us with, but.
27:45
Speaker 1: It is it is gosh, you know, it's such a
27:51
Speaker 1: powerful then running through this is that everybody knows what's
27:56
Speaker 1: going to happen. We know nobody's going to die, but
28:02
Speaker 1: we do know that Rory is going to grow up.
28:06
Speaker 1: We do know that she's going to go off to school.
28:09
Speaker 1: We do know that she's going to graduate. We do
28:12
Speaker 1: know that she's going to start her own life. And
28:17
Speaker 1: isn't that really something to watch? That's separating from her
28:21
Speaker 1: mom when they were so they started off so close
28:25
Speaker 1: and then now that's drifting apart. That is that is
28:28
Speaker 1: a powerful magnet for an audience. It really is.
28:32
Speaker 2: And it's real too, you know, it's so real, real
28:35
Speaker 2: things that happened.
28:36
Speaker 4: Well, I think it was really important. Laura. I stood firm.
28:40
Speaker 4: She has to figure this out on her own, she
28:42
Speaker 4: has to make these mistakes. And Luke was like, we
28:44
Speaker 4: gotta go get her, We got to go kidnapper, We
28:46
Speaker 4: got to talk to her right, and it's like she's
28:49
Speaker 4: going to have to figure this out and she's going
28:51
Speaker 4: to make some major mistakes while she does this, and
28:53
Speaker 4: it has to happen. And then right before they get
28:56
Speaker 4: back together. Oh wait, have you you haven't gotten there.
28:58
Speaker 4: I don't want to. I don't want to.
29:00
Speaker 1: That's seasons. Please don't please. I haven't seen it yet.
29:04
Speaker 1: I haven't seen it. That's okay, that's okay, all right,
29:07
Speaker 1: So let's get into Rory's relationships. Okay, uh discuss you know,
29:15
Speaker 1: the Deans, the Jesses, the Logans. Talk about those dynamics
29:20
Speaker 1: and what they did or didn't do for Rory.
29:24
Speaker 4: Well, I do want to say we were pretty anti
29:27
Speaker 4: Logan in our book, and I think we both can
29:30
Speaker 4: say that perhaps we were a little aggressive with that.
29:34
Speaker 4: I feel like, uh, I sort of understand where that
29:37
Speaker 4: comes from. Like Rory really experiences all the tropes of
29:42
Speaker 4: romantic novels. She gets Dean, the jockslash motorcycle driver. He
29:47
Speaker 4: was kind of he kind of his personality shifted a
29:50
Speaker 4: bit by season two. Then she gets Jess, who's like
29:54
Speaker 4: the bad boy but super smart and the only one
29:56
Speaker 4: that could really understand what, you know, her level of
29:58
Speaker 4: intelligence and she goes on to Logan, who's like this millionaire.
30:03
Speaker 4: It's every trope and she gets to experience it. So
30:05
Speaker 4: I do want to say, if anyone reads our book,
30:09
Speaker 4: I'm a little less anti Logan, even though he was
30:13
Speaker 4: my least favorite choice for Rory. And I think probably
30:17
Speaker 4: we've talked about it a few times that perhaps we
30:19
Speaker 4: were a little aggressive in our anti Logan sentiments in
30:24
Speaker 4: the book. But yeah, I think I think when Rory
30:29
Speaker 4: dates Jess and Luke's like, are we okay with this?
30:32
Speaker 4: Like is this? Are you okay with it? Right? Because
30:34
Speaker 4: you know, she really did not want that to happen,
30:36
Speaker 4: and she says, I think it's about time for a
30:38
Speaker 4: Jess and it's like, yes, that's you have to kind
30:41
Speaker 4: of figure out who is your partner, right, Like who
30:46
Speaker 4: is who are you compatible with? It's not always going
30:49
Speaker 4: to be the same. And I think the parallels between
30:52
Speaker 4: Dean and Luke and Christopher and Logan, like Dean he's
31:00
Speaker 4: not the one for her, even though Luke is the
31:02
Speaker 4: one for Laura, you know, and Jess brings something really
31:06
Speaker 4: important for her. He's my favorite. I am totally team Jess,
31:09
Speaker 4: but I don't think he's the best fit for her.
31:12
Speaker 4: He is, he just doesn't give her what she needs.
31:16
Speaker 4: I don't think Logan's the right fit. But clearly later
31:21
Speaker 4: in life she you know, maybe continues that path.
31:24
Speaker 1: So yeah, that's the acid test for me with Logan,
31:27
Speaker 1: because I'm very fond of Logan and I think he's
31:30
Speaker 1: super smart and I think he does give her what
31:31
Speaker 1: he needs. But the thing is, the acid test is
31:33
Speaker 1: ten years from now, when they're married, they have a
31:35
Speaker 1: couple of kids, and he's running the empire, is Daddy's empire?
31:40
Speaker 1: Is he going to cheat on her? Do you see
31:41
Speaker 1: him cheating on her? And I kind of do?
31:45
Speaker 4: Is Rory gonna cheat on him?
31:47
Speaker 1: Pat?
31:47
Speaker 4: I Meanyeah, She's a pretty complicated character, and it's yeah,
31:53
Speaker 4: it's not necessarily sunshine and roses for everyone, Right, Rachel,
31:58
Speaker 4: what you said in the book that you wanted her
32:00
Speaker 4: to choose herself so she had a very.
32:03
Speaker 2: Well I was going to say that also that if
32:06
Speaker 2: I had to choose, I'm definitely team Jess. But in
32:08
Speaker 2: our book we end that chapter with the possibility of
32:12
Speaker 2: a fourth option, and that is Marty.
32:15
Speaker 1: That's right, who's probably the best guy for her. He's
32:19
Speaker 1: mister reliable, Yeah, Yeah, he's gonna make he's always going
32:23
Speaker 1: to make a good living. He's always he's going to
32:25
Speaker 1: get a teaching position at a smaller college, and he's
32:29
Speaker 1: going to be the steady He's going to be steady, steady,
32:32
Speaker 1: steady guy. He's going to love her, he's going to
32:34
Speaker 1: worship her. It's going to be a great life for
32:36
Speaker 1: those two. But she just doesn't get that spark from him,
32:40
Speaker 1: you know. So yeah, yeah, I know, I've seen it
32:43
Speaker 1: all that way, Yeah, seeing it all before. What was
32:53
Speaker 1: your favorite part of the series.
32:54
Speaker 2: I do just absolutely adore the female friendships, especially between
32:59
Speaker 2: Lorle and I just I love Melissa McCarthy and I
33:02
Speaker 2: just love what she did with that character. But I
33:07
Speaker 2: just love that that was an aspect of the show.
33:09
Speaker 2: It wasn't just focused on, you know, a romantic relationship.
33:13
Speaker 2: But my favorite part did you say favorite moment or
33:17
Speaker 2: favorite part.
33:18
Speaker 1: Of the series or favorite part?
33:21
Speaker 2: Okay, I love Kirk's short film that they play. I
33:27
Speaker 2: think it's season two and it's at the Stars Hollow movie.
33:31
Speaker 2: First of all, I love when Laura I thinks she's
33:35
Speaker 2: going to be able to choose a film and she
33:39
Speaker 2: she I think references Fletch and Arthur, which makes me
33:43
Speaker 2: laugh every time, and Sophie's choice as well. But then
33:48
Speaker 2: when we get to see Kirk's film that I just
33:53
Speaker 2: thought the show is so smart. I just loved it.
33:59
Speaker 1: Watch it frequently, right right right, Laura, one last idea here.
34:09
Speaker 1: What was so distinct about the show compared to other
34:12
Speaker 1: shows during that time two thousand and seven.
34:16
Speaker 4: I mean, I think even on the network that it
34:19
Speaker 4: was on the very first the pilot episode, Laura la
34:23
Speaker 4: I says to Rory, like I had DIBs on being
34:26
Speaker 4: the beat to night right, Like you did not see
34:29
Speaker 4: that on any shows that were airing on a family network.
34:33
Speaker 4: And it was just a very real representation of how
34:38
Speaker 4: people actually talk to each other, not these sappy moments.
34:41
Speaker 4: And I think that was one of the comments that
34:44
Speaker 4: Amy Sherman Palladino made, was like I didn't love the
34:46
Speaker 4: close ups. I didn't want the emotional, like sad thing.
34:51
Speaker 4: It was about making tragic figures funny. And I think
34:55
Speaker 4: I watch it every time and I'm like, they are
34:57
Speaker 4: They've got these tragic stories, all of them, and yet
35:01
Speaker 4: it is so funny. So I think it was it
35:05
Speaker 4: was I've never come across another show like it. Somebody
35:09
Speaker 4: will say it's like Gilmore Girls, and I always watch
35:11
Speaker 4: it and I'm like, no, more good. It's fine, but
35:17
Speaker 4: it's not. Don't say it's like Gilmore Girls, because you
35:19
Speaker 4: just can't do it. Even Marvelous Mismaans. I mean, that's
35:21
Speaker 4: a totally different thing, right, It's it's it's it's just
35:26
Speaker 4: it's sort of on its own. Son.
35:28
Speaker 3: Yeah, I would just said to that too.
35:31
Speaker 2: Just the quantity and the quality of the pop culture
35:35
Speaker 2: references I think keeps people coming back to the show
35:39
Speaker 2: because and there's someone a scholar that requoted in the
35:43
Speaker 2: pop culture chapter that it's not so highbrow references where
35:48
Speaker 2: it's like condescending to the audience. Some of the references
35:53
Speaker 2: I know, and when I know them, I'm so proud
35:55
Speaker 2: of myself and I feel really good. But then the
35:58
Speaker 2: other references, I'm like, I'm going to go look that
36:00
Speaker 2: up because Lorelai is super cool, and I want to know.
36:03
Speaker 2: I want to read what she's reading or I want
36:05
Speaker 2: to watch what she's watching. And I don't know how
36:09
Speaker 2: Amy did that, Like, I don't know how she created
36:12
Speaker 2: just very carefully these pop culture references that that keeps
36:19
Speaker 2: people coming back I mean still when I rewatch it
36:21
Speaker 2: now I I write down I need to look up
36:24
Speaker 2: who you know, whoever whatever, look.
36:27
Speaker 3: At this movie.
36:28
Speaker 2: It cannot catch everything, which was very difficult when we
36:32
Speaker 2: were writing this book, gather evidence.
36:39
Speaker 3: It's tough.
36:41
Speaker 1: Well, I can tell you that the type of couple
36:43
Speaker 1: that goes on a vacation and they take a hundred
36:46
Speaker 1: books with them, that's what they do on vacation. They
36:49
Speaker 1: read no right, so but yeah, I agree with you.
36:55
Speaker 1: That's that's that's the very special special sauce of the show.
36:58
Speaker 1: I agree. Anyway, that's all the time we have. We
37:02
Speaker 1: got to have you back on the show. It's a
37:03
Speaker 1: fascinating conversation. Thank you so much for your time. Rachel
37:08
Speaker 1: Davidson at Lara Stage. The book is Gilmore Girls of
37:13
Speaker 1: Cultural History. Go out and get yourself a copy. Thank you,
37:17
Speaker 1: ladies so much, and hopefully talk soon.
37:21
Speaker 3: Yeah, thank you so much.
37:23
Speaker 4: Thank you very much.
37:53
Speaker 1: Hey everybody and Tuls again. Follow us on Instagram at
37:56
Speaker 1: I Am All In podcast and email us at Gilmour
38:00
Speaker 1: at iHeartRadio dot com.