Latest / Startup Dad / Parenting in Norway vs USA with Founder of Tana Olav Sindrew Kriken | Dad of 3
Transcript
- [00:00:00] Olav Sindre Kriken: you don't own your kids, [00:00:01] Olav Sindre Kriken: You're borrowing them, and that you don't own their thoughts. They need to get their own thoughts and all. It is a philosophy about like. Building the kids for tomorrow, and it might be a tomorrow that you can't join. [00:00:15] Adam Fishman: Welcome to Startup Dad, the podcast where we dive deep into the lives of dads who are also leaders in the world of startups and business. I'm your host, Adam Fishman. My guest today is Olav Kriken. He's a four-time founder who is currently at the helm of his most recent company, Tana. They're an AI enabled productivity and knowledge management platform. [00:00:37] Adam Fishman: He's from Norway originally, but joined me from Tana's HQ in Palo Alto. He's also a husband and the dad of three kids. Today we talked about the concept of dad dates, how he prioritizes quality time with his kids, speaking with one voice with your wife, who he called the co-founder of his life's most crucial startup. [00:00:58] Adam Fishman: His family and his belief that kids come through you, not from you. He also shared several parenting frameworks, how kids See what you do and learn from that, and his somewhat contrarian intake that kids should have more, not less technology. If you like what you hear, please subscribe on Apple, Spotify, YouTube, or your favorite podcast player so you never miss a weekly episode. [00:01:21] Adam Fishman: I would like to welcome Olav to the Startup Dad podcast. I will not attempt to pronounce your name because, my Midwestern American sensibilities will butcher it. [00:01:32] Olav Sindre Kriken: it's actually kind of hard, but it's, uh, I'd say, uh, creaking. [00:01:36] Olav Sindre Kriken: it's a Norwegian name, [00:01:38] Adam Fishman: Okay. [00:01:38] Olav Sindre Kriken: I think for like 20 people or, or 50 people with that last name, so, so it's not a, like, yeah, it's not a, it's not the Joneses of, uh, nor Norwegian language either. [00:01:47] Olav Sindre Kriken: So, yeah. [00:01:48] Adam Fishman: Well, with a name like Olav, coming into this conversation, I assume that you were not from the US and then you just mentioned it. sounds like you grew up in Norway. Is that right? Okay. [00:01:58] Olav Sindre Kriken: on the west coast of Norway in a beautiful little town with, uh, 10,000 people, [00:02:04] Adam Fishman: Okay. [00:02:04] Olav Sindre Kriken: quite different from the, the, uh, the San Francisco and, and the Bay Area. But [00:02:09] Adam Fishman: Yeah. [00:02:09] Olav Sindre Kriken: uh, it's, it's an amazing place. we have probably some of the most beautiful nature in the world, [00:02:15] Olav Sindre Kriken: And it's a great place to grow, uh, grow up. [00:02:17] Olav Sindre Kriken: Okay. One of my very good friends here in the Bay Area is also a Norwegian, uh, founder. He founded Sanity, the, uh, CMS company. You know Magnus? Yes. Yes. He lives not too far away from me. I can walk over to his house right now. So, stick together [00:02:33] Adam Fishman: true. [00:02:33] Olav Sindre Kriken: we're over here. Yeah. [00:02:34] Adam Fishman: so tell me, what were you like as a kid? What was life like growing up in Norway? [00:02:38] Olav Sindre Kriken: well, I was. curious. And I think that is probably, uh, one of the things that defines me. I started early, like, like I was into sports and soccer and, and skiing and, and when you grow up in a place like, like, uh, my hometown, you just grow to love the nature. we were always outside, I started building computers when I was 10. [00:02:59] Adam Fishman: Whoa. [00:03:00] Olav Sindre Kriken: was like my entry level to the tech world. Remember getting out 360 4 my mom got it from sushi was like this cashier at the bank. And that was like, Hmm, so how does this thing work? And I just, pull it apart. And she was like, what are you doing? And that was basically the start of like my interest in tech. [00:03:18] Olav Sindre Kriken: And I was really like full of energy, which I think my team will tell you that, uh, I, I still am. I was thinking about this the other day. Like, I, I'm born the 22nd of December, [00:03:30] Adam Fishman: Okay. [00:03:30] Olav Sindre Kriken: and I do think that's played a huge role in, my youth, like being at the end of the year in Norway, we, we start like, uh, at the start of the year and, you go to class with everyone, which is kind of in your, uh, born the same year as you. I probably had to take my place and, a bit more than maybe I would've done if I was born earlier. And, and I think that's actually been informative for me. Yeah. [00:03:53] Adam Fishman: Oh, that's really interesting. 'cause yeah, you were probably one of the youngest people in your grade Um, well, so that's one interesting thing about, uh, Norway that's different than the US is sort of when you, when you start school and, how that works. [00:04:03] Adam Fishman: We go on like a September or August cycle. It's very, it's very bizarre here. I think calendar year probably makes more sense, but you know, here we are. and so you have three kids, you haven't been in the US for too long. so you did start to raise your kids in Norway, and now you're raising them here, in the us. [00:04:24] Adam Fishman: how's it different? How's parenting in the US different from parenting in Norway? [00:04:28] Olav Sindre Kriken: yeah. There's a couple of big differences, but I don't know if that's, this is just my experience or if it's, that's the way it is. But you have these play dates, so you always like, like you plan for the weekends [00:04:38] Olav Sindre Kriken: it's a lot freer, I would say. So. So when we get home or the kids get home from school, they do their homework and they run off and they're like, they're outside somewhere they're hanging with the kids from the other house or they're going past the yard. this is an interesting thing. [00:04:52] Olav Sindre Kriken: Everyone in Norway is in front of their houses. Well, in the US you're behind your houses, [00:04:58] Adam Fishman: Ah. [00:04:59] Olav Sindre Kriken: walk through the street here in Palo Alto, you'll never see a person in, in the, the [00:05:04] Adam Fishman: Right, right. [00:05:05] Olav Sindre Kriken: in Norway, I don't think we have backyards, actually. [00:05:08] Olav Sindre Kriken: There might be a garage or a road to the garage, but yeah, we're always in front. [00:05:12] Olav Sindre Kriken: So, the kids are like, they're more active. By themselves with their friends without actually having to have these play dates. So I think that's, that's the biggest change. And I do think, like, you start a year earlier in school. So my 5-year-old started school here when, when we got here. [00:05:29] Adam Fishman: Mm-hmm. [00:05:29] Olav Sindre Kriken: think that's, that was a great thing. although it was kind of surreal, we, we moved here. She, she didn't know any English. She, she had some YouTube like lessons. when we knew we were moving, we came to Addison, which is one of the schools in Palo Alto. And, and of course they get like 80 kids a year that come and like, that's, that's [00:05:48] Adam Fishman: Right. [00:05:49] Olav Sindre Kriken: immigrants, right? [00:05:50] Adam Fishman: Yeah. [00:05:50] Olav Sindre Kriken: And we were like, okay, so let's go down to the school. Let's meet the teacher, uh, go inside of the, classroom and maybe we can stay in, in the back of the class for the first couple of hours and, and whatnot. And the teacher just said, Hey, so you're the parents and you're the, oh, so nice to meet you. [00:06:04] Olav Sindre Kriken: Well, bye mom and dad. And they just pulled her in and, and my wife was crying in the car and I was like. fine. I dunno if you've seen the medium with the burning with the dog and the burning house. I would like that dog. Just like a couple tears running down. I'm like, no, no, this is good. [00:06:19] Adam Fishman: Yeah. [00:06:19] Olav Sindre Kriken: it was so good, like after a couple of weeks she started like speaking English and, [00:06:24] Adam Fishman: Wow. [00:06:25] Olav Sindre Kriken: weeks she was, you could hear her plaguing with her Barbies and it was like, everything was like this amazing Californian accent, [00:06:31] Olav Sindre Kriken: And I think it is funny about the play dates. Like, you know, if the kids are out in the front yard playing or in front of the house playing, like, things just happen serendipitously. And when you're in the backyard, like, unless you can hear, you know, loud yelling, you're not gonna like wander back there. [00:06:44] Adam Fishman: So it's very interesting, but much more community oriented in, uh, Norway it [00:06:49] Olav Sindre Kriken: that. Yeah. and you know, it takes a village, so [00:06:51] Olav Sindre Kriken: when you're only thank K people, in the whole, county, that, that's, that's, uh, I think that's just multiplies that feeling. [00:07:00] Adam Fishman: you know, speaking of taking a village, uh, so you have three kids. You have a partner named Linda who also works outside the, outside the home. You mentioned to me. and as we're recording this, it is, we're on the cusp of summertime. It's about to hit summertime here. where you are in Palo Alto, where I am in, in the Bay Area, what are your kids gonna do during the summer? [00:07:18] Adam Fishman: Do you go back to Norway? Do you, do you stay here? What's the plan? [00:07:21] Olav Sindre Kriken: we've been going back to Norway each, and I haven't told you this, but uh, my family is right now back in Norway and they will probably stay back there for a year, [00:07:30] Olav Sindre Kriken: so that's a new challenge for us, [00:07:32] Adam Fishman: Whoa. [00:07:33] Olav Sindre Kriken: I would be commuting and stuff because my son is signing for one of the elite soccer [00:07:37] Adam Fishman: Mm-hmm. [00:07:38] Olav Sindre Kriken: and he's getting this, uh, opportunity and just. shown them by like starting companies and doing stuff. I, I think, we should say yes and, and try, but, but in summertime we always go back to Norway. That's what we've done. where we live, I would say we have probably 200 days of, array or snow. So when the summer comes, we are outside all of the time. So [00:08:01] Adam Fishman: Yeah. [00:08:02] Olav Sindre Kriken: our, we don't have these summer schools, but you have summer camps in a different way. So we have summer camps when it comes to sports or like ballet or whatever. So, uh, my kids do soccer, they do, um, arts and craft. but most of the time we're just, we're spending outside hiking. our mountains go from the fjord to the top of the mountain, which is kind of different from here, where you, your mountain starts on a higher level. that's a different experience. But it's. That's what we do, and we go to our cabin just spend our time outside. [00:08:32] Olav Sindre Kriken: So [00:08:32] Adam Fishman: Oh, [00:08:32] Olav Sindre Kriken: that's the main thing we do [00:08:34] Adam Fishman: that sounds really nice actually. so your kids are obviously not with you right now, which must be a little, a little sad, a a little tough, but when you are with them, um, you described this concept to me that you call dad dates, which is like a weekly of time that you spend with each kid. [00:08:52] Adam Fishman: And, I think that sort of supports this philosophy that you have of like quality time versus quantity of time. And so tell me about dad dates. what are dad dates? [00:09:02] Olav Sindre Kriken: the quality time is, that's so important. So I can, uh, dive deeper into that. But, but Dad dates is basically it doesn't have to be more than like an hour, through the week where you try to do something with each one of the kids. It can be like me and, me and the 12-year-old, we have a series, a Netflix series that we're watching and we only watch it together. [00:09:23] Olav Sindre Kriken: the two of us, maybe we only see one, one a week, but that doesn't matter. Basically, it's just that's our time. [00:09:29] Olav Sindre Kriken: for my son, it can be something as simple as just. Going in the backyard and doing some passes, with a soccer ball or, it can be like me driving him to trainings or whatever, but talking about their life, like what's going on in their life outside of our family, and just trying to have that, uh, or it's like, being on the floor, playing Barbie. [00:09:49] Olav Sindre Kriken: I've, I've done a lot of Barbie, so I have two girls [00:09:52] Adam Fishman: Yeah. [00:09:52] Olav Sindre Kriken: and I can give you voices from like here to there. Like, that's what I mean by quality time and, and they don't know that it's that days. That's for me, [00:09:59] Adam Fishman: Mm-hmm. [00:10:00] Olav Sindre Kriken: wife to know. But it's kind of like, just knowing that I have some time with each one of them. So it, so it doesn't feel like you're like, just packing some time together with all of them. Just like feel better. [00:10:11] Olav Sindre Kriken: just being a founder, that's made that time even more valuable because I, I know that I really need to have that time and I need to be together with them and, and, uh, have quality instead of quantity and this new, this totally new, situation we have now where they might be going back for a year and I have to commute or whatever. [00:10:30] Olav Sindre Kriken: It's got just, just feel like the investment I've made in the kids is what's gonna make that like, be okay for, for just a while. [00:10:39] Adam Fishman: I wanna stay on that point for a second because there, you know, there's this belief and you founded several companies. I think Tana Tana is your fourth company that you've started, right? [00:10:47] Olav Sindre Kriken: Ford company, and I've started three companies before Tana, [00:10:51] Olav Sindre Kriken: I started my first company when Daniel was. A year old. [00:10:54] Adam Fishman: Oh, wow. And he's 16 now, right? So, yeah. there's this belief that startup founders need to be always on, right? And you're the CEO of a company and like, there's a lot of people dependent on you and people. You've got customers, you've got all kinds of people coming, coming to you probably all the time. [00:11:11] Adam Fishman: and then you have these dad dates with your kids where you need to be focused on them. You want to be focused on them. how do you like cordon off that time and turn off the distractions from all the people who probably need things from you all the time when you're spending time with your kids? [00:11:28] Olav Sindre Kriken: Yeah, the team knows that from 5:00 PM to, I would say like seven 30 or 8:00 PM that's, that's family time. And, I have no problems with that. Like, I start my days really early because I need to start talking to the team in Norway. So I, I, I'm online like, uh, five 30, [00:11:44] Olav Sindre Kriken: I do think that it's, it's, it's always about output, right? [00:11:48] Olav Sindre Kriken: That's the main thing. It, it's not about necessarily the hours you put in, but what I do is I've created this, uh, you know, the focus mode on your mobile. [00:11:55] Adam Fishman: Yeah. Yeah. [00:11:56] Olav Sindre Kriken: So the only people that can get hold of me at that time is basically my direct reports and my co-founders. [00:12:02] Adam Fishman: Hmm. [00:12:02] Olav Sindre Kriken: I ha I do have to say like, as a founder, you do always have to be on, [00:12:05] Olav Sindre Kriken: The team knows that that's sacred time for me. And, my co-founders knows that as well. So if they do call and they have to call twice to get past, uh, the [00:12:16] Adam Fishman: right. I. [00:12:16] Olav Sindre Kriken: and if they do call, like I know that, okay, this is important. [00:12:19] Adam Fishman: Right. [00:12:20] Olav Sindre Kriken: like a PO bug or whatever [00:12:22] Olav Sindre Kriken: we need to act, but it rarely happens. [00:12:25] Olav Sindre Kriken: Like, like I can probably count on one hand the amount of times in a year I'm, I am, uh, interrupted when I have my, family time. [00:12:33] Adam Fishman: Yeah. Well, that's good. So focus mode. speaking of co-founders, you mentioned co-founders calling you. You said something to me in our prep for this, that I really liked, which is the way you described your wife. And you said that, I'm gonna read that sentence you said, my wife is my co-founder in my life's most crucial startup, our family. [00:12:52] Adam Fishman: And then you went on to say that you and your wife might not always agree, butbut your goal is to approach parenting with one voice. So tell me about this concept of one voice. [00:13:01] Olav Sindre Kriken: the one voice thing is something we, we actually figured out quite early, and of course there's, there's situations and context for where this is hard, but we always try to have one opinion and one voice to the kids, especially that's been good. LikeNow Daniel's 16 and he can see that we, we have some more discussions, but we always try to have voice when we talk to the kids, so they don't go to daddy and, and ask for one thing and then mommy says something else and stuff and to be able to do that, you have to have alignment, [00:13:30] Adam Fishman: Mm [00:13:30] Olav Sindre Kriken: we have to have spaces for discussions. So when the kids go to bed, if there's something, uh, throughout the day that I've said or Linda said, or that we kind of disagree with, we're trying to like, so, you know, when you said that it was okay to stay out until 10, well, I didn't wanna say it in front of the kids, but my opinion is A, B, or C. [00:13:50] Adam Fishman: Mm. [00:13:50] Olav Sindre Kriken: and I do think that's been one of the most important things we've learned, that it's just create stability for the kids, [00:13:58] Adam Fishman: Yeah, [00:13:59] Olav Sindre Kriken: voice, one opinion on most stuff. [00:14:02] Olav Sindre Kriken: the trick is to let your wife always speak first because she's, she's a hell of a lot smarter than me. So, [00:14:09] Adam Fishman: yeah, [00:14:10] Olav Sindre Kriken: to follow along and, and just try to not like, get in her way when, when we have these discussions. [00:14:15] Adam Fishman: yeah. [00:14:16] Olav Sindre Kriken: I once read a book, which I. I really loved to call, uh, the five Dysfunctions of a team. [00:14:22] Olav Sindre Kriken: and they talk about disagreeing and committing, [00:14:24] Adam Fishman: Yeah. [00:14:25] Olav Sindre Kriken: that's something that I brought like to my team and my company and my family. [00:14:29] Olav Sindre Kriken: And that is like, we can go into the bedroom at night and we can discuss and we can like, uh, hash out where we wanna go or directions or whatever. And when we, disagree or agree, we commit. [00:14:44] Adam Fishman: Yeah. [00:14:44] Olav Sindre Kriken: So, sometimes I lose, most times I lose. But anyways, uh, you need to commit to it and, and, and there's so many things that's alike like running the startup of your life, which is, your family and, and actually building a startup like [00:14:59] Olav Sindre Kriken: alignment, building trust, having conflicts, you don't have the, the artificial harmony, but having them in the right context and uh, and all of that, that's yeah. [00:15:09] Adam Fishman: I'm curious about where this concept of one voice gets stretched. So where do you and your wife really have to practice? If you picked like one thing, you really have to practice that disagree and commit on [00:15:21] Adam Fishman: what's that one thing? [00:15:22] Olav Sindre Kriken: I do think now that our son is older, it's probably about like, freedom and responsibility around, uh, his choices. [00:15:32] Adam Fishman: Mm-hmm. [00:15:33] Olav Sindre Kriken: That can be, offered discussion, uh, sometimes. And, um, it's more like I'm probably a bit more loose. [00:15:41] Olav Sindre Kriken: oh, it's gonna be fine. [00:15:43] Adam Fishman: Yeah. [00:15:43] Olav Sindre Kriken: and I've probably said that a few times, too many. But what changes is, like, that's been for our son, but now for our daughters. Like, for my, my oldest daughter, being a teenager soon. [00:15:53] Adam Fishman: Mm-hmm. [00:15:54] Olav Sindre Kriken: I'm a totally different dad for her. [00:15:56] Olav Sindre Kriken: so we're more aligned [00:15:57] Adam Fishman: I'm curious actually, you know, I wanted to ask you this a little bit later, but it sort of relates to what we're talking about right now, which is, 'cause you mentioned your son, you have sort of one parenting approach and you're, you're a totally different dad with your middle daughter. [00:16:10] Adam Fishman: So how has that parenting approach changed as you've gone from one to two to now three kids? how are you different? [00:16:19] Olav Sindre Kriken: Yeah. So the first thing you do is you read a, you try to read a bunch of books, uh, because that's what one do when [00:16:24] Adam Fishman: Yeah. [00:16:25] Olav Sindre Kriken: apparent and, and try to learn from like, uh, what other people say and do. but I do think that, uh, for, for our first kid, like we had, uh, I think it's important to talk about this actually, and not being embarrassed. [00:16:36] Olav Sindre Kriken: Like everything was supposed to be homemade. Like the food, everything was like, non like, processed food whatsoever. let's bro buy the broccoli yeast let's grow the potatoes. It felt like, [00:16:49] Adam Fishman: yeah. [00:16:50] Olav Sindre Kriken: was like, like so important to like do the right thing and the pacifiers shouldn't be like this. [00:16:56] Olav Sindre Kriken: It should be like that. And, and you should never, be strict in your kids in these, and these situations was so much like textbook stuff [00:17:04] Olav Sindre Kriken: and then the second child comes and you're like, yeah, well, it's not that important. Like. All this seem to grow up. it's okay to, like, sometimes like buy pizza from a restaurant or [00:17:15] Adam Fishman: Mm-hmm. [00:17:16] Olav Sindre Kriken: you can do different things. And then when you're third born, it's like, Hey, do we have frozen pizza? I throw it in the oven, like, let's go. We have, we don't have time for this. We're going on ballet. Like, what can we do? Let's just have dinner later. Like, [00:17:28] Adam Fishman: Yep. [00:17:29] Olav Sindre Kriken: you go through this exercise of like thinking like there's a world where there's a perfect way of parenting. [00:17:35] Olav Sindre Kriken: that is wrong. So every, every dad that's listening to this, they will grow up to be okay. People [00:17:41] Adam Fishman: Right. [00:17:42] Olav Sindre Kriken: frozen pizza now and then, [00:17:44] Adam Fishman: That's good. It's okay, well that makes a lot of sense. one of the, um, parenting beliefs that you, that you shared with me is that. I had to kind of read through this a few times 'cause I, I still, I still wanna ask you what it means, but this idea that kids come through you, not from you. [00:18:03] Adam Fishman: tell me about what that means. I found that really interesting descriptive. [00:18:07] Olav Sindre Kriken: I remember just reading a book. Uh, this was after we had, uh, our first, kid Daniel. It's, uh, the prophet of, uh, Khaalil. Gibran. [00:18:16] Olav Sindre Kriken: he talks about, it's just a one pager, talking about how the kids come through you, not from you and how you don't own your kids, [00:18:25] Olav Sindre Kriken: You're borrowing them, and that you don't own their thoughts. They need to get their own thoughts and all. It is a philosophy about like. Building the kids for tomorrow, and it might be a tomorrow that you can't join. [00:18:39] Olav Sindre Kriken: And I think that's just what's so profound for me about like, and not telling my kids what to do, not telling my kids what they should love, like when it comes to either sports or music or whatever, but letting them find their way. The only thing you can do as a parent is actually give them good values. and I always told my kids like, be good and be useful. I think that's important. And, letting them be their own person. I think that's important from an early stage because you do not own your kids. They come through you, not from you. [00:19:17] Olav Sindre Kriken: that's been profound in how interact with my kids [00:19:21] Olav Sindre Kriken: and what I ask them to do or not. [00:19:22] Olav Sindre Kriken: and it's actually made me calmer. so she wanna go that way and she wanna do arts and crafts, although I know she, I think she would love this thing. I remember actually my, oldest daughter, she started ballet. [00:19:35] Olav Sindre Kriken: and she went there for a year and she, we could see it was a bit reluctant. It was like her friends was there and like, we thought like, like she has to do [00:19:42] Adam Fishman: Mm-hmm. [00:19:43] Olav Sindre Kriken: we had an agreement this huge like, uh, ballet show, uh, for the, for spring. [00:19:49] Adam Fishman: Mm-hmm. [00:19:50] Olav Sindre Kriken: we, and we said to her like, please just stay until that and then we'll decide if you quit or not. was like, okay, I'll do that. And this was when she was like six or seven. And she did this show, and it was amazing. We said like, so, so was it funny? And she was like, yes, because now I can quit. But then we had our, had our youngest, which is, they're two different people [00:20:12] Adam Fishman: Yeah, [00:20:13] Olav Sindre Kriken: and she loves ballet and she does whatever. But I just think that as a parent, you have to be okay with, your kids finding their own way from an early age [00:20:22] Adam Fishman: yeah, [00:20:23] Olav Sindre Kriken: and just support them, give them, create values and just love. I think that's underestimated the amount of love you should give your kids. [00:20:33] Adam Fishman: if you went back in time and met, you know, young Olav, uh, before you had your, even your very first kid, I. and you're in the midst of building your first company right? When he's one years old. is there like one absolute piece of advice that you would give yourself about being a dad or, or a parenting? [00:20:53] Adam Fishman: I, [00:20:53] Olav Sindre Kriken: You don't have to have it all figured out. [00:20:56] Olav Sindre Kriken: Kids don't need perfect parents. They need parents that's present and that loves them. It's really that simple [00:21:05] Adam Fishman: Yeah. [00:21:06] Olav Sindre Kriken: probably that hard. But I do think I would tell young who love that because, uh, I just remember like I was so into like starting my company, we almost made, went bankrupt for the first three or four years, was super hard. the first year I wasn't sleeping because of the,company. And the second year I wasn't sleeping because of Daniel. But it was like, it's okay. [00:21:30] Adam Fishman: Yeah. [00:21:30] Olav Sindre Kriken: the other thing. You asked for one advice, but the next thing is like, I remember people telling me like,you have to be sure to get enough sleep. [00:21:38] Adam Fishman: Hmm. [00:21:38] Olav Sindre Kriken: you need to be energized and you need to be on top of your game. And it's like, no, you don't have to do that. insane how long you can go with like a couple hours sleep. [00:21:48] Olav Sindre Kriken: had it over a year. Like Daniel had this special form of, uh, do you see colleague? [00:21:52] Adam Fishman: Yeah. Colic. Yep. [00:21:54] Olav Sindre Kriken: yeah, yeah. So we had to carry him [00:21:56] Adam Fishman: Oh, [00:21:57] Olav Sindre Kriken: Like, so we just, we would have like this, um, whole setup with our, our, our schedule. Uh, who carries when and we were sleep and stuff. But, so [00:22:03] Adam Fishman: wow. [00:22:04] Olav Sindre Kriken: it's like you have no idea the amount of, uh, pain you can take when it comes to that, that stuff. And you see that the pain was actually not pain, it was just, a certain kind of love. [00:22:17] Olav Sindre Kriken: I think. So, yeah, [00:22:19] Adam Fishman: Yeah. [00:22:20] Olav Sindre Kriken: those two advices, [00:22:21] Olav Sindre Kriken: would tell myself. [00:22:22] Adam Fishman: Okay. Well, building on that, I want to talk a little bit more about parenting frameworks. Um, I always think this is funny as a product person, I love frameworks. but I, I think it's really fun to talk to parents about what frameworks that they have. So you have a few that you shared with me, and I just wanna kind of go through them and, and have you explain those to, to our listeners. [00:22:42] Adam Fishman: But, the first one that you told me is explain why. and so tell me about, tell me about that concept. [00:22:50] Olav Sindre Kriken: I figured that out quite early that at least my, my oldest and, the kids that came after, like they really responded best when I told them to do stuff, if I explained why, and it's kind of the same as running your team. Like [00:23:03] Adam Fishman: Yeah. [00:23:04] Olav Sindre Kriken: if you had great people and you just give them orders, I. and don't understand why they're, they have to do things or, or why we're doing anything. Like you don't have a North star or whatever. it's gonna quickly become like quite hard. It's the same with kids. Like if I say that, it's just small things like yeah, clean your room because it's Friday and uh, it's great to wake up on a Saturday having everything cleaned [00:23:29] Olav Sindre Kriken: it's to the smallest extent and then it's the bigger things like, like, uh, you need to do your homework because A, B, or [00:23:36] Adam Fishman: Mm-hmm. [00:23:37] Olav Sindre Kriken: is basically things that's given for, for grownups. It's given a lot of the, but I think that children just respond so much better if they understand why. [00:23:46] Adam Fishman: Yeah. [00:23:46] Olav Sindre Kriken: we try to do that at every, every level. [00:23:50] Adam Fishman: Yeah. [00:23:51] Olav Sindre Kriken: things we're doing, [00:23:52] Adam Fishman: Yeah. [00:23:52] Olav Sindre Kriken: is just adding a, a sentence to whatever you say. And, yeah, we've had huge success with that at least. [00:23:57] Adam Fishman: And also seems like, you know, we maybe take for granted that kids have all the context, that we have as adults and you know, we know why we want to have a clean room on a Friday, but your 16-year-old or your 12-year-old or your 7-year-old doesn't really know why that matters. so yeah, so that's really interesting that that extra sentence of context, [00:24:18] Olav Sindre Kriken: until they're 15. [00:24:19] Adam Fishman: but then they probably challenge the why, [00:24:23] Olav Sindre Kriken: then it's the five wise. [00:24:24] Adam Fishman: Right. [00:24:25] Olav Sindre Kriken: it's like, yeah. [00:24:26] Adam Fishman: Okay. So the second one, speaking of challenging is, [00:24:30] Adam Fishman: that being challenged and having demands made of you is a human right. why do you think it's important for kids to feel some of that struggle and, challenge. [00:24:42] Olav Sindre Kriken: actually that was one I got from my dad. I remember vividly growing up, he would tell me like, uh, it's a human right to get challenged. [00:24:50] Adam Fishman: Mm. [00:24:50] Olav Sindre Kriken: And, and I, I do think that there's a lot of truth to that, and I, I can see a bit around us that this is changing. I think there's a lot of people that is, um, we are in Norway. [00:25:01] Olav Sindre Kriken: There's a saying like, putting pillows under your arms. Do you say that in the us? [00:25:05] Adam Fishman: No, but I, I, I feel like I have a sense of what it, what it means, [00:25:08] Olav Sindre Kriken: yeah. It's, it's, it's like, be sure that the kids have a pillow to land on or have it onto their arms. So they don't have, like, they don't have to feel the struggle, but I, we know that what makes you grow is actually, adversity or, struggle or pain And. if you don't start out at an early age and getting your, your, your kids to feel that, I think they're gonna have a huge shock when they get into the real world. And you can do this in different ways. Everything from like, school to ballet, to, to sports, to whatever. But also in like, just challenging their, opinions and beliefs, having discussions around the dinner table, uh, trying to like, not give them the easy way out because I do think that that's just gonna create a human being that's, that's gonna learn the hardships of the world way too, slow and way too late. [00:26:04] Olav Sindre Kriken: we're not cotton parents, as we say in Norway. [00:26:07] Adam Fishman: Cotton parents. Yeah. Interesting, interesting. Uh, I've got, I've got two new, uh, phrases now. I've got the pillows under the arms and I've got cotton parents. This is good. [00:26:17] Adam Fishman: speaking of which though, uh, the third framework that you have is this concept of warnings before consequences. tell me about warnings before consequences. [00:26:27] Olav Sindre Kriken: if you see that your kid is about to do something or if, if there's something happening or it's a repeating pattern or whatever, we always try to give a warning, and say that there's gonna be a consequence if this happens one more time. Because if you wait and you just give them the consequence, it's it's punishment. [00:26:45] Adam Fishman: Hmm. [00:26:45] Olav Sindre Kriken: what you don't wanna end up is punishing your kids all the time. [00:26:49] Adam Fishman: Right. I. [00:26:49] Olav Sindre Kriken: be punished when they under have the context and they understand that if I do this, then there's gonna be a punishment. Punishment. Seems like a hard work, by the way. Whoa. It's not something you do in like the Tower of London, but No, it's just making them like. giving them the context. you mentioned it like five minutes ago. I think the context thing is super, super important. Like, and if you give them like, at least explain to them why they shouldn't do it, and if they do it, then B will happen. [00:27:17] Adam Fishman: Mm-hmm. [00:27:18] Olav Sindre Kriken: Then it's okay with B because then they, then they can foresee it. [00:27:21] Adam Fishman: Yeah. [00:27:21] Olav Sindre Kriken: foresee it, it's just pure punishment. So, yeah. [00:27:25] Adam Fishman: Yeah. [00:27:25] Olav Sindre Kriken: [00:27:25] Adam Fishman: they have some knowledge of like, well, there's a choice that I'm making here and this choice comes with a consequence if I make the wrong choice, you know? So, [00:27:34] Adam Fishman: um, that's interesting. Your last one. Uh, and you kind of mentioned this sort of at the, at the beginning, which is this idea of challenge and struggle. [00:27:44] Adam Fishman: but the last one is that kids are tough. And I always say this, uh, I always tell new parents, I'm like, you'd be surprised your kid's pretty much made of rubber. this is true that some kids do get really hurt and things like that, but, but kids are generally pretty tough. [00:27:58] Adam Fishman: Bones heal pretty quickly when, when you're a kid. And, how does that manifest or how has that manifested in in your life? This idea that kids are tough? [00:28:06] Olav Sindre Kriken: I would almost let them climb as high as they can in a [00:28:09] Adam Fishman: Mm-hmm. [00:28:10] Olav Sindre Kriken: But then there's the one voice thing, so maybe that won't happen. But yeah, it's the what I would like. And I, I would say my wife would actually let them climb at least halfway up the tree. [00:28:19] Adam Fishman: Yeah. [00:28:19] Olav Sindre Kriken: I, I really wanted to try things and just like fail and learn and fall. [00:28:24] Olav Sindre Kriken: And I remember actually taking, uh, my son to the springing pool. and he was like, uh, six years old. And he said, can I go up to the, we call it the five meter, [00:28:33] Adam Fishman: Mm-hmm. [00:28:34] Olav Sindre Kriken: it's like to jump. And I was like, yeah, of course. Sure. And he went up and I'm like, okay, so he's six, was this a bit too? [00:28:40] Olav Sindre Kriken: Then he did a front flip and I'm like, and time just froze. [00:28:46] Adam Fishman: Oh my God. [00:28:47] Olav Sindre Kriken: and I was like, oh, that turned out great. [00:28:50] Adam Fishman: Yeah. [00:28:50] Olav Sindre Kriken: time. La us back. And we ended up, uh, had to visiting the doctors, that was the worst thing that could happen. And that happened and that wasn't that bad. [00:28:57] Adam Fishman: Mm-hmm. [00:28:58] Olav Sindre Kriken: kids are tough, I really do believe in like letting them, like try out stuff, jump from cliffs and bathe in the river, climb the trees, [00:29:09] Adam Fishman: it sort of connects back to that, kids should experience challenges. Like you're teaching kids and this belief that they're tough and that you should present them with challenges and, you know, some, some struggles like, you're teaching them this belief that like, you can do hard things, you know, you can do things that seem impossible. [00:29:29] Adam Fishman: and I guess that kind of comes back to like founding companies too, right? Like founding a company is a struggle and it's tough and, you know, you can do hard things. So, [00:29:38] Adam Fishman: the other thing that, um, that you mentioned to me is that you have this belief that your kids see what you do. So I might call that, like in the states, you know, there's been books written about this. We call that kind of like modeling behaviors for, for kids. and I think that your kids are maybe modeling some entrepreneurship in your household. I'm really interested in these stories, but what are your kids doing to kind of like model the entrepreneurship that they see you doing? [00:30:05] Olav Sindre Kriken: there's different contexts here. I do think that, um, working hard and letting your kids see that you work hard is not a bad thing. [00:30:15] Adam Fishman: Mm-hmm. [00:30:15] Olav Sindre Kriken: I think it's gotten kind of a bad rap, with all of the work life balance stuff and people like, that's a whole different discussion. [00:30:21] Olav Sindre Kriken: But it's like there's nothing wrong your kids see that you work hard on hard problems and that to do extraordinary things. need to have extraordinary ordinary efforts. you do normal effort, you're only gonna have normal, results. Right? [00:30:39] Adam Fishman: Yeah. [00:30:40] Olav Sindre Kriken: So I have the focus time, I have the dead days. outside of that, they see that I work a lot [00:30:46] Adam Fishman: Mm-hmm. [00:30:47] Olav Sindre Kriken: work on, and I'll, I'll bring them to work. And sometimes they sit beside me if I have meetings because they think it's fun to just learn. Uh, which I think is great by the way. And it was just so funny. couple years ago, we made up a story, but, uh, one of the teddy bearers for my, my daughter called the Flying Johnny. And, and every time when I put them to bed, I've, been like just making up a new story and thank God for chat GPT more on that later, but now, but I was like, okay, so flying Johnny and the Jungle of Pirate, that was like the first story we had. a couple years ago, my son came over and he was like, dad, I've created a business plan for how we can make flying Johnny, a character with a teddy bear and how we can write a book and how we should like talk to Amazon because that's a great place for distribution. and there's a theme park later, and I was like, he was 14 and I was like, blown away by his thinking. And I, I had never, like, on purpose modeled entrepreneurial gene with them. But [00:31:53] Adam Fishman: Mm-hmm. [00:31:54] Olav Sindre Kriken: I've started companies their whole life and I've heard my discussions and they've seen my work, right? [00:31:59] Adam Fishman: Yeah. [00:32:00] Olav Sindre Kriken: a year ago, my daughter started making these, uh, masks. she would go to like Home Depot [00:32:06] Adam Fishman: Mm-hmm. [00:32:06] Olav Sindre Kriken: stuff, and she would make these masks. And she just said like, I thought she was making them for herself, but she was like, I think I wanna sell this [00:32:14] Olav Sindre Kriken: And I was like, yeah, okay. so how would you do that? And she was like, okay, so there's people actually interesting in this, and I could make these, uh, Minecraft masks, and what I wanna do is, and we sat down and, she actually used, um, chat PT to, uh, to create a business style, like, what does it cost? [00:32:30] Olav Sindre Kriken: And she, she was only 11 at that time. and what does the it cost? How much do I have to sell it for? Uh, how would I actually put 'em out on Etsy, which we figured out she couldn't. So I'm the outsell of masks on Etsy. but that was the gist. Uh, two examples of, of how they've, um, modeled my, my, uh, behavior. [00:32:51] Adam Fishman: you're not telling your kids you have to do, you have to be an entrepreneur. You have to go do this. Like look at what dad's doing. You're just living your life and including them in it. And they're kind of learned through osmosis in a way, so, [00:33:04] Olav Sindre Kriken: I would wish for them not to be an entrepreneur. It's like, no, no, no. Choose an easier life than your dad. No, I I think it's really cool and it's, it's given me a feeling of, okay, so, so like, showing that them, that you're working hard and you're working on a lot, that's not bad. [00:33:21] Adam Fishman: yeah. [00:33:22] Adam Fishman: Well, I can't wait to go, uh, explore Johnny in the jungle of pirates and then I'm gonna go buy one of your masks, uh, on your at, on your Etsy store. So, and I'll put it, I'll put it behind me, uh, in my backdrop. so, you know, you mentioned chat GBTA couple of times. and you know, as far as the relationship with technology that you want your kids to have, you told me that you're not afraid of introducing your kids to technology. [00:33:47] Adam Fishman: I talk to a lot of tech parents, obviously that's what the show's about. I wouldn't say that a hundred percent of them say the opposite of that. But that idea that you're not afraid of introducing them to technology is counter to what I hear a lot of parents, especially parents in tech, [00:34:05] Adam Fishman: And so I'm curious, what your approach is to it and like why. You're so bullish on it. [00:34:11] Olav Sindre Kriken: I think there's different ways of, of, of doing it, but for my sake, it's. We came over here and, nobody had a cell phone, uh, or an iPhone or whatever, nobody had their own computers and stuff. And that's, that's fine. It's not, that's not the thing. The thing is like, I'm not afraid of teaching my kids how to use AI or letting them watch YouTube on my phone or on an iPad now. [00:34:33] Olav Sindre Kriken: And then of course we have the, the screen time like my youngest, she uses YouTube kids, not YouTube, like, yeah, whatever. [00:34:40] Adam Fishman: Mm-hmm. [00:34:41] Olav Sindre Kriken: have full control on what they, what they do watch and how they consume content. But using technology, I think it's amazing. think that that's just gonna stimulate their brains to what's possible. [00:34:53] Olav Sindre Kriken: And, and I do understand the people that say like, oh, I want my daughter to draw, I want my daughter to do this and that, or my, my son to do whatever I. my daughter is exceptionally drawing. [00:35:01] Olav Sindre Kriken: She's 12 years old. I've introduced her to technology since she was four or five. She ends up sitting in her room building masks. She's drawings for her mother's 40th birthday. She, she painted this amazing picture, and I have done nothing to, to do that. But she started seeing YouTube videos on how to, how to draw, to paint. She made a card. I, I post to my wife at, uh, Taj Mahal in India, like, 20 years ago. So we have this picture of, uh, me doing that. for our, uh, anniversary, she built Taj Mahal in like card boxes. [00:35:41] Olav Sindre Kriken: I never just said like, you're not getting an iPad. You're not gonna get your, you're not using a cell phone to watch YouTube. You're not. But we discuss what we're seeing. [00:35:51] Adam Fishman: Mm. [00:35:52] Olav Sindre Kriken: So I don't want them to like, scroll on TikTok seeing shorts. She's not, she doesn't have TikTok. So I think just there's a difference between what platforms you, make available for them and what you do with technology. [00:36:05] Olav Sindre Kriken: And technology I think is amazing. [00:36:07] Adam Fishman: Yeah. [00:36:08] Olav Sindre Kriken: Steve Jobs said that the computer was the greatest thing we ever built, like a bicycle for our minds. And I do think that done right, technology is the bicycle for our mind. [00:36:16] Adam Fishman: in your experience, it's not, dissuading them from doing things in the offline world. It's not dissuading the art or getting the pen and, and drawing or making the masks. It's actually enhancing those things. [00:36:28] Adam Fishman: helping her be more creative, um, and learn how to do stuff, and kind of follow that, that path. [00:36:34] Adam Fishman: So that, that's really interesting. [00:36:35] Olav Sindre Kriken: And my son has been following like these, uh, great soccer players that put out like, like exercises he should do. And he tries tricks and he tries like, so. if you've instilled your kids with values, you've created a curiosity in them. think technology is just opening their world. [00:36:57] Adam Fishman: I'm introducing this newish segment on the show that I call AI Corner. there's a lot of people out there on the internet talking about amazing things they're doing with AI and agents that they're building and workflows and things like that. [00:37:10] Adam Fishman: but very few talking about how they're using it as a parent. And so I'm curious, you mentioned your kids building business plans, what's the most creative use of AI that you've found for yourself as, as a parent? [00:37:22] Olav Sindre Kriken: there's two things. One is the lightweight stuff that everyone does, I think, uh, and that is that, like I told you, that the flying Johnny and the jungle of pirates that just lived in our heads together. when the ChatGPT came with their, mobile app, we started actually when we went to bed, instead of reading from a book. We would discuss and develop the book. And I'm talking about like with my 7-year-old, she was like, yeah. what happened? What would it sound like if, uh, they went into the jungle and there was a flying unicorn? and flying. Johnny went into the jungle and there was a flying unicorn. [00:37:59] Olav Sindre Kriken: And, and the great thing I, I know this is lightweight, but the great thing about this is they understand how they, they actually can almost be like this humanoid [00:38:08] Adam Fishman: Mm-hmm. [00:38:09] Olav Sindre Kriken: like just enhancing their creativity. actually one of the most. Compelling ways I've used it. But the other thing I did was and my, uh, son actually built a tutor when we moved here and he started as a freshman, that was hard. [00:38:25] Adam Fishman: Yeah. [00:38:25] Olav Sindre Kriken: had to do was like, okay, you're coming in, uh, one month, too late on, on the school year. You have to read Catcher in the Rye in uh, three weeks. like, alright. So instead of actually like using, uh, AI to like give him answers, which would not be good, we created this tutor [00:38:45] Olav Sindre Kriken: So we used Claude to actually create this tutor that would help him answer questions that he had, that he wanted to ask his, professor or his teacher, but he couldn't because it was, uh, outside of [00:38:56] Olav Sindre Kriken: was just so profound because the value for him was so big [00:39:00] Adam Fishman: Yeah. [00:39:00] Olav Sindre Kriken: felt like he was talking to his, uh, teacher at night. [00:39:03] Adam Fishman: That's sort of always on tutor, pretty nice. The teachers probably appreciate that too. okay, so speaking of your son, you have a wild story about your son when he was really young. I can't end this program. I can't end this recording without hearing that story from you. [00:39:19] Adam Fishman: So,tell me about the story of your son. I think he was about three years old or [00:39:24] Olav Sindre Kriken: he was three years old and, uh, my wife was on like this, light wash or whatever at the [00:39:28] Olav Sindre Kriken: hospital. And I was, uh, watching Liverpool and Daniels was three years old. He was just climbing everywhere I was watching Liverpool play matches at United, [00:39:37] Olav Sindre Kriken: So I was like just so focused on the, the telly and suddenly I just heard like, honking outside and yelling and, and uh, I just turned around and I could just see two hands, kind of like, kind of like this, if you look at the camera just holding on for their life. [00:39:54] Olav Sindre Kriken: And it was Daniel and it was like the second floor and it was grass and everything. So probably like we talked about kids are tough. My wife was coming into the driveway and she was yelling so bad and I was just, I just threw myself over and pulled him inside. So that was the last time I actually like being present. [00:40:14] Olav Sindre Kriken: You have, if you have the kids alone, you have to be present. Although there's a match on the tv. [00:40:19] Adam Fishman: you're intensely focused on the soccer match. Your son ends up hanging out the second story window [00:40:24] Olav Sindre Kriken: yes, [00:40:24] Adam Fishman: his hands as your wife is pulling [00:40:26] Olav Sindre Kriken: time. Yeah. [00:40:28] Adam Fishman: As your wife is pulling and he is not saying anything to you. He is just hanging out. Yeah, he's hanging. Okay. So [00:40:35] Adam Fishman: how did that conversation go with your wife when she came into the house? [00:40:39] Olav Sindre Kriken: You know, the one voice and the disagreeing commit. [00:40:42] Adam Fishman: Yeah, [00:40:42] Olav Sindre Kriken: That was not the time for one voice, or, or it was, [00:40:45] Adam Fishman: it was her, it was, [00:40:47] Olav Sindre Kriken: coming from her. [00:40:47] Adam Fishman: I was gonna say there, there was definitely one voice and it was a loud voice, I'm sure. [00:40:54] Olav Sindre Kriken: it, it's the last time I ever saw a Liverpool match, uh, along with Daniel without like having him on my lap [00:41:01] Olav Sindre Kriken: or like putting him in whatever. Yeah. [00:41:04] Adam Fishman: Well now you have this amazing story though that, uh, maybe this is how he got so into soccer, or, or football as they call it. Yeah. So who, who knows. okay. I wanted to end our conversation with one other thing that you told me that I really liked, and that was, I'm just gonna read what, what you wrote for me, which is, you know, either it goes well or it goes over, say more yes than no, try new things and make the most of your time. [00:41:28] Adam Fishman: And so that sounds like that's kind of a life philosophy that you have. So, I wanted to ask you something specific about that, which is, what are some things that you've said yes to with your kids that have led to some surprising outcomes or results? [00:41:43] Olav Sindre Kriken: I think like moving to the US or starting to was probably the biggest one. we knew when we started at, uh, since we were an AI startup, before AI was hot, by the [00:41:52] Adam Fishman: Mm. [00:41:53] Olav Sindre Kriken: everything, everyone wanted us, us to be do crypto or blockchain, and we're like, we're on Sandhill in 2020 saying that No, no, no, we're doing ai. [00:42:00] Adam Fishman: Yeah. [00:42:00] Olav Sindre Kriken: I remember this guy saying like, no, no, no, you need to do crypto AI is a thing of the nineties. Listen to this sa a tokens. And I'm like, wait, what? Anyway, so, so moving here, I think was the biggest, thing we've done. Like just taking your kids from the, the safe place of like 10,000 people and, and suddenly being in Palo Alto. [00:42:21] Olav Sindre Kriken: Palo Alto is a great place, by the way. it's amazing. But that was, that was both hard. And it learned them a lot. And it's, it, it is been amazing for both them, our families. So I think that that is the biggest thing. And then there's a lot of like small stuff like Daniel being invited to, play for a team when he was like, uh, 13 years old or 12 years old and had to like, travel for hours to, to just try outs and driving him, uh, three days a week there. [00:42:49] Olav Sindre Kriken: Because we really believe that saying yes to this, although it's not common or normal would yield, uh, better outcomes. And, that's been great. And, um, yeah, there's probably a lot of them. It's just either it goes well or either it goes over, it's even better said in Norwegian, but that's probably my favorite expression because it's true. you have kids. Have you seen like a frost. [00:43:11] Adam Fishman: Yep. [00:43:12] Olav Sindre Kriken: We, I've seen that 700 times, but when she, when she sings like this, the Let it Go, [00:43:18] Olav Sindre Kriken: she talks about that, uh, from a distance. Everything seems small [00:43:22] Olav Sindre Kriken: that's part of the same thing. Like, it's gonna go, either it goes well or it goes over. And both things are okay because from a distance, everything's tiny. [00:43:32] Olav Sindre Kriken: And, I do think that letting your kids know that saves them time. Pondering like, stuff that can happen, [00:43:40] Olav Sindre Kriken: like the anxiety. that's one of the things that I really try to instill in them. [00:43:44] Adam Fishman: Yeah. [00:43:45] Olav Sindre Kriken: uh, since this is my fourth company, I've said a lot. Yes. one of our investors say like, Richard Branson, screw it. Let's do it. I think that's a, that's an amazing line. [00:43:55] Adam Fishman: Yeah. Love that. Alright, well that's a great thing for us to end the core of our conversation on. I wanted to ask you one last thing, which is how can people follow along or be helpful to you in any way if they're listening to this? [00:44:09] Olav Sindre Kriken: You can probably find me on X [00:44:10] Olav Sindre Kriken: o on LinkedIn. Try to write, write ul love and see if you can me, or, yeah. I need to change my name to Mike Jones or something. Yeah, no, uh, just write ul Love or follow Tarana, uh, on X on LinkedIn. And, and, uh, but what I would generally want is actually tip on how to like, uh, parent, teenage girl because like. Sonny is going into her her 13th year now in October, and I, I just feel that that's something completely different than [00:44:38] Adam Fishman: Yeah. [00:44:39] Olav Sindre Kriken: So [00:44:39] Adam Fishman: Yeah. [00:44:40] Olav Sindre Kriken: have some great advice, just send me a dm. [00:44:42] Adam Fishman: Okay. Well I look forward to commiserating on that with you. My daughter's also gonna turn 13 in October, so here we go. Yes, [00:44:51] Olav Sindre Kriken: Let's, let's share, let's create a teenage girl [00:44:53] Adam Fishman: yes, yes. We could probably do that. Inana. Okay. It's time for lightning round. we will, uh, try to make this as, uh, not painful as possible, but, you know, sometimes struggle is good as you've said. [00:45:07] Adam Fishman: So, um, here's how lightning round works. I ask you a question, you say the first thing that comes to mind, uh, and then we move on. what is the most indispensable parenting product you've ever purchased? [00:45:18] Olav Sindre Kriken: Oh, that's easy actually. That's the rocking share with vibration. Daniel have a colleague and, and we just need to like, like carry him all of the time. So the, that chair saved our marriage and our lives, [00:45:32] Adam Fishman: Okay. What is the most useless parenting product you've ever purchased? [00:45:36] Olav Sindre Kriken: surprisingly. Our sandbox. Oh my God. Yeah. D uh, my kids wanted to climb trees and be outside of the sandbox instead of being in it. So it just, the neighbor cats used it as a cat litter. Oh my God. Yeah. [00:45:48] Adam Fishman: Okay, [00:45:48] Olav Sindre Kriken: Strange. [00:45:49] Adam Fishman: well, I'm glad somebody got some use out of it, but clearly not your kids. what is the weirdest thing that you've ever found in your kids' pockets or in the washing machine? [00:45:57] Olav Sindre Kriken: Oh yeah. So we're big salmon fishers. We have a river in Norway. And then, uh, when Daniel was like four or five, he was trying to help me, obviously, and he filled his, pockets with worms. he went into like the, the bathroom and just threw off his, uh, trashes. And, and Linda came in and like, I, I just hear this yell I went into the bathroom. [00:46:17] Olav Sindre Kriken: It was just worms everywhere. Yeah. So I think that's a good, that's a good contender. Yeah. [00:46:24] Adam Fishman: That may be the first time I've ever heard worms in the pocket, so that's pretty great though. okay. True or false, there is only one correct way to load the dishwasher. [00:46:33] Olav Sindre Kriken: Yes. [00:46:34] Adam Fishman: is this a one voice opportunity? Do you and your wife see? [00:46:37] Olav Sindre Kriken: this is the only place where we haven't been able to disagree and commit, like the knife has to be by themselves, the spoons by themselves, they're forced by themselves. And, and the big, uh, plates, uh, separated from the small [00:46:50] Adam Fishman: Yep. [00:46:50] Olav Sindre Kriken: And please do not put like, pan in the [00:46:55] Adam Fishman: Yeah. Yeah, I know. [00:46:56] Olav Sindre Kriken: gonna be so angry that I say this. Uh, [00:47:00] Adam Fishman: And we're gonna turn, we're gonna turn this into a clip and I'm gonna send it directly to her. Uh, [00:47:05] Olav Sindre Kriken: is the highlight of the talk. [00:47:07] Adam Fishman: okay. Uh, what is your signature? Dad's superpower. [00:47:11] Olav Sindre Kriken: it's actually instilling in my kids that anything's possible. And I think that's actually kind of weird to say. It's a superpower, but, but I do think it is, like, I, I always tell them that you, you can't actually do anything. It's just about, putting in the effort. [00:47:26] Adam Fishman: Okay. [00:47:27] Adam Fishman: what is the crazier block of time in your house? 6:00 AM to 8:00 AM or 6:00 PM To 8:00 PM [00:47:33] Olav Sindre Kriken: Oh, 6:00 PM to 8:00 PM havoc. [00:47:37] Olav Sindre Kriken: everybody's going on. Like it's either soccer practice or it's gymnastics, or it's ballet, or it's piano or it's, and of course they're doing everything like the, the girls, at least they're doing three or four things. [00:47:50] Adam Fishman: Wow. [00:47:51] Olav Sindre Kriken: that's when, uh, having grandparents around comes in handy. [00:47:54] Adam Fishman: Yeah, [00:47:55] Adam Fishman: I'll bet. if your kids had to describe you in one word, what would it be? [00:48:00] Olav Sindre Kriken: Positive. [00:48:01] Adam Fishman: Okay. I think I probably would describe you that same way after this conversation, so [00:48:05] Olav Sindre Kriken: like, why, why not? [00:48:06] Adam Fishman: yeah. [00:48:07] Olav Sindre Kriken: positive. [00:48:08] Adam Fishman: Okay. What is the most frustrating thing that has ever happened to you as a dad? [00:48:12] Olav Sindre Kriken: We were in Thailand, when, uh, I had my, uh, last paternity leave with, with Leah. looking back, we shouldn't have done it, but like we took this, uh, boat at the PPP Islands and, uh, there was this beach called Monkey Beach where everyone would like go and, and look at the monkeys. And they told us like, do not bring your bags. Do not bring anything because that's when the monkeys come at you and [00:48:33] Adam Fishman: Yeah, [00:48:34] Olav Sindre Kriken: And we went on the beach and everything, like with a lot of tourists. And there was this guy who brought a bag full of food, of course, [00:48:42] Adam Fishman: course. [00:48:43] Olav Sindre Kriken: and the monkeys came and he threw a rock at it, and they turned around and thought it was sunny. [00:48:47] Olav Sindre Kriken: my oldest, uh, girl, and she was only seven at the time, The monkey just jumped her and bit her in the leg. [00:48:54] Adam Fishman: Oh [00:48:55] Olav Sindre Kriken: And I was holding Leah, and Leo was a year, and I was just kicking that monkey. I think it's the furthest you'd ever seen a monkey fly. I was just kicked it and took her and got up in the boat. [00:49:06] Olav Sindre Kriken: But then I knew, just I knew had ASAP, we had to do the rabies shots [00:49:09] Adam Fishman: yeah. [00:49:09] Olav Sindre Kriken: do everything. And just the, the frustration and the hopelessness of that situation. That was, that's actually, [00:49:14] Olav Sindre Kriken: frustrating. [00:49:15] Adam Fishman: Wow. I think it's the first time I've ever heard a monkey bite on this podcast, so, [00:49:20] Olav Sindre Kriken: Yeah. [00:49:21] Adam Fishman: hopefully the last time I hear it too, so that does sound pretty terrifying. [00:49:24] Olav Sindre Kriken: Norwegians. We have different words in history [00:49:27] Adam Fishman: Okay. what is the funniest thing that one of your kids has ever said in public [00:49:33] Olav Sindre Kriken: We went to, uh, to a universal, uh, in la and we were in the line and there was this guy in front of me and I was just holding Leo like this. And she just asked me and she says like, why is that guy so angry? And he was standing right in front of us. [00:49:48] Olav Sindre Kriken: He was turned around. And I'm like, well, she's not lying. It's like, you seem kind of angry. You've been like, pokey your kids for like 30 minutes. Yeah. [00:49:59] Adam Fishman: awesome. [00:50:00] Olav Sindre Kriken: was, I I thought that was [00:50:01] Adam Fishman: Oh, I think it's hilarious. Kids say the funniest things. Okay. What is your go-to dad wardrobe. [00:50:07] Olav Sindre Kriken: Dark skinny jeans. [00:50:08] Adam Fishman: Okay. [00:50:09] Olav Sindre Kriken: hates it. She's like, why do you wear skinny jeans? And I love it. I'm a former rock and roller. [00:50:14] Adam Fishman: Okay. [00:50:14] Olav Sindre Kriken: really love like dark, skinny [00:50:16] Adam Fishman: I'm sure she's not gonna like them anymore when she becomes a teenager either, so, [00:50:21] Olav Sindre Kriken: be worse probably. [00:50:23] Adam Fishman: okay. How many parenting books do you have in your house? [00:50:27] Olav Sindre Kriken: We had a lot, like five or six Before we had Daniel, we, we just, we had a bunch and we got a bunch. Of course. [00:50:34] Adam Fishman: Okay. And how many of those books have you read, cover to cover? [00:50:38] Olav Sindre Kriken: One, [00:50:39] Adam Fishman: Okay. [00:50:40] Olav Sindre Kriken: And it's because it was like 40 pages and it is, I think, or 50 pages. And it was like, um, I can't remember the, it was first time dad, and it's like a really, really practical book. [00:50:51] Adam Fishman: Okay. [00:50:51] Olav Sindre Kriken: okay, so you're trying to dress your kid, you have to hold him like this, and then you drag on like this [00:50:58] Olav Sindre Kriken: So it's more like a practical guidance than like, uh, anything [00:51:02] Adam Fishman: Okay. I will link to that, uh, first time Dad, I think it's by Jason Peterson, I think you maybe mentioned, so, yeah. Okay, cool. how many dad jokes do you tell on average in a given day? [00:51:14] Olav Sindre Kriken: I would probably say one or two [00:51:16] Adam Fishman: Okay. [00:51:17] Olav Sindre Kriken: my girls would say 20. And the thing is they just keep getting better. [00:51:23] Olav Sindre Kriken: the older I get, the better the jokes. It's like, yeah, [00:51:26] Adam Fishman: Okay. What is the most embarrassing thing that you've ever done in front of your kids? [00:51:32] Olav Sindre Kriken: you have christenings and then when they get older you have confirmation. You [00:51:35] Adam Fishman: Yep, we do. Yeah, [00:51:37] Olav Sindre Kriken: I was the godfather of, a young woman that had her, uh, confirmation a year ago, and I performed in my mother's swimsuit, uh, a song for her. uh, my daughters actually got angry, but she thought it was fun though. [00:51:53] Adam Fishman: Yeah. Yeah. Wow. I don't think we have enough time to really dig into why that happened or, [00:51:59] Olav Sindre Kriken: it's related to Beyonce, but we [00:52:01] Adam Fishman: Okay. [00:52:01] Olav Sindre Kriken: that later. [00:52:02] Adam Fishman: Okay. All right. What is the most absurd thing that, uh, one of your kids has ever asked you to buy for them? [00:52:08] Olav Sindre Kriken: there's a lot. So the first thing is a capybara. Capybara, [00:52:12] Olav Sindre Kriken: is [00:52:13] Adam Fishman: Capybara the animal. [00:52:14] Olav Sindre Kriken: my oldest daughter, she, she, she actually like pestered me for a year. Like number one. We lived in Norway. they don't exist in, nor, I don't know if they exist in us either, but like, she was like, why can't we get a capybara? [00:52:25] Olav Sindre Kriken: And I was like, can get something else. What about a snake or something? It's like [00:52:30] Adam Fishman: yeah. So I think that they're South American and I, I don't think you're gonna have them as a domestic pet anyways. [00:52:37] Olav Sindre Kriken: Know, it's this, And then the other thing was, uh, I don't know how young or older your kids are, if your daughter is the, the, the oldest. But there was this period of fidget spinners, and it almost drove me insane. My son was like 10, and he had like 10 fidget spinners, and he just, he wanted one made out of, I don't know. [00:52:57] Olav Sindre Kriken: It looked like it was made out of gold, but it was like just stupid, stupid stuff. [00:53:03] Adam Fishman: Okay. All right. Fidget spinners and a capybara, well, the capybara certainly hasn't ended up in your house, but I bet there's been a lot of fidget spinners. So, okay. What is, uh, the most difficult kids' TV show that you've had to sit through? [00:53:15] Olav Sindre Kriken: Oh my God, so easy. It's this on YouTube, there's this show called, she's called Salish or something. it's just so, directed [00:53:25] Adam Fishman: Okay. [00:53:25] Olav Sindre Kriken: it hurts. It's so like, it's so stupid [00:53:28] Olav Sindre Kriken: and that's where I have had the discussion. You say that technology, that's when we sit down and say, so why are we watching [00:53:34] Adam Fishman: Yeah, [00:53:35] Olav Sindre Kriken: What can we learn from this? [00:53:36] Adam Fishman: yeah. [00:53:37] Olav Sindre Kriken: like, and try to have this discussion This time I actually lost, so, so, uh, my girls are still seeing it now and then, but it's just, just so such a stupid show. Sorry. Oh, I'm gonna get so much hate from this. That's fine. [00:53:50] Adam Fishman: That's okay. That's okay. [00:53:51] Olav Sindre Kriken: I'll take it for all the dads. [00:53:52] Adam Fishman: We'll link to it in the YouTube version of this too. So, uh, okay. What is your favorite kids movie? [00:53:58] Olav Sindre Kriken: It was cars, [00:53:59] Olav Sindre Kriken: me and Daniel watched cars like hundreds of times. Just such a perfect movie and so many like [00:54:05] Adam Fishman: It's so good. [00:54:06] Olav Sindre Kriken: like related to, uh, like signals for grownups as [00:54:09] Adam Fishman: Yep. [00:54:10] Olav Sindre Kriken: good. And of course then the next one was Frost for the Girls. Frost was insane [00:54:15] Adam Fishman: yeah. Uh, what nostalgic movie can you not wait to force your kids to watch with you? [00:54:22] Olav Sindre Kriken: I've taken them through Star [00:54:24] Adam Fishman: Oh, excellent. [00:54:26] Olav Sindre Kriken: Each one of them. so now I have one left, like Aaliyah. She hasn't seen it. She's only [00:54:30] Adam Fishman: Okay. [00:54:31] Olav Sindre Kriken: But like we've, we've done it the right way. You start with with New Hope and then you [00:54:36] Adam Fishman: Yep. [00:54:36] Olav Sindre Kriken: and Yeah. [00:54:37] Adam Fishman: Yep. [00:54:37] Olav Sindre Kriken: and, uh, I film them every, like both Daniel and Sonny, when we get to the, I'm your father [00:54:44] Adam Fishman: Uh. [00:54:44] Olav Sindre Kriken: scene. [00:54:45] Olav Sindre Kriken: And it's like, I waited for like. 12 years to show that to Daniel. I was just, [00:54:52] Adam Fishman: Wow. That's awesome. Okay, just a couple more. what is the worst experience that you've ever had? Assembling a kid's toy or a piece of furniture? [00:55:01] Olav Sindre Kriken: the first IKEA children's bed, it felt like it had 40,000 parts and it's just, I just felt like the people that made the bed was stupid and the people who made the manual was stupid. And yeah, it took me a while. That was hard, much harder than building any applications to whatever. It's just, [00:55:21] Adam Fishman: the thing that will ruin any founder flat pack furniture. That's it. [00:55:26] Olav Sindre Kriken: And you have so much else to do. [00:55:27] Adam Fishman: Yes. [00:55:28] Olav Sindre Kriken: you've estimated a time, like a proper, like LPR process. and it's just No, I spent a weekend on that [00:55:35] Adam Fishman: Oh, man. Okay. How often do you tell your kids Back in my day stories. [00:55:40] Olav Sindre Kriken: More often than not these [00:55:42] Adam Fishman: Okay. [00:55:42] Olav Sindre Kriken: the sad thing is that back in the days is also getting updated, right? So, so as you grow up, like, like in a couple of years, I'll be talking about back in the days in Palo Alto, [00:55:51] Adam Fishman: Right, right. [00:55:53] Olav Sindre Kriken: Okay. Last two. Uh, what is your favorite dad hack for road trips or flights? Or both? [00:56:00] Olav Sindre Kriken: let's do flights first. Noise cancellation headsets for everyone. just, [00:56:06] Adam Fishman: Every passenger on the plane? [00:56:08] Olav Sindre Kriken: Everywhere. Yeah, the whole plane. Oh, that's a different story. When we went to Thailand. Woo. But we've been traveling a lot back and forth, Norway [00:56:16] Adam Fishman: Yeah. [00:56:16] Olav Sindre Kriken: and the us and that's just been a life saver. [00:56:19] Adam Fishman: Hmm. [00:56:19] Olav Sindre Kriken: And just having that headset and just letting them just either listen to music and draw, or just watching a video on the plane and whatnot. I couldn't live without it, [00:56:28] Adam Fishman: Yeah. [00:56:29] Olav Sindre Kriken: Uh, the next up is when we go on road trips, we have this game we play where we bet the colors of the cars that's coming at us. we'll say like, when we're driving to la maybe we'll do it from like Halals with the Santa Cruz, and we'll be like, okay, I'll do red. And, and Daniel's like, all do green. And Linda's like, all do black because she always cheats. and then we try to like see who wins. [00:56:50] Adam Fishman: Okay. [00:56:50] Olav Sindre Kriken: that's, [00:56:51] Adam Fishman: And winning is the most cars that go by that are of a certain color. Okay. Love that. That's a fun game. I'm gonna try that now. okay, last question. What is your take on minivans? I [00:57:02] Olav Sindre Kriken: I used to hate them. Nile, I love them. [00:57:05] Adam Fishman: Okay. [00:57:06] Olav Sindre Kriken: I'm just waiting for a proper like electric. Like you have the Volkswagen, [00:57:11] Adam Fishman: I just saw one. Yeah. [00:57:13] Olav Sindre Kriken: Yeah. Yeah. But, uh, I, I really, really wanna have, I have one where I can take a bunch of kids on a trip and like camping and whatnot. So [00:57:23] Adam Fishman: Awesome. [00:57:24] Olav Sindre Kriken: is a thing, is amazing. [00:57:26] Olav Sindre Kriken: Yeah. [00:57:27] Adam Fishman: All right. Well, Olav, thank you so much for joining me on Startup Dad today. This was a really fun conversation and uh, best of luck to you, your company, Tanana, and your family. [00:57:39] Olav Sindre Kriken: Thank you so much for having me. My first US podcast. [00:57:42] Adam Fishman: Love that. I got the exclusive. [00:57:45] Olav Sindre Kriken: Yeah. [00:57:46] Adam Fishman: Thank you for listening to today's conversation with Olav Kriken. Startup Dad is available in all your favorite podcast players and YouTube. Just search for Startup Dad to find it anywhere you listen to podcasts. Thanks for listening, and see you next week.