Latest / Nurtural Disasters / War of the Beckhams, Guest-Starring Gordon Ramsay
Transcript
- Lisa: Hello and welcome to Nurtural Disasters. This is a podcast for those of us with toxic or emotionally immature parents. We might not have a bunch of credentials next to our names, but we do have PhDs from the Hard Knocks University. Basically, we want this to be a validating space for adult children of parents who had no business having children. Lisa & Ken: So we left off last time on episode two, we didn't really finish talking about the Brooklyn Beckham situation. Well, I want to talk about those siblings and how toxic parents They create a weird dynamic between siblings. Ken, I've met your sister. Yeah. And she's an interesting person. interesting situation. From my knowledge, my dad kind of uses us as little pawns against each other. That's what I'm seeing as a person that's in the little ecosystem that we have. So it's interesting because my sister used to be an only child. Like there's a huge gap between me and my sister's ages. So. She was like the golden child for quite a while before I showed up and they just gave competition. The bad part of that is that my dad is extremely controlling. So my sister was not allowed to go out if he needed a babysitter. So my sister was a de facto babysitter for most of her teenage years. That sounded horrible. If you think, if you think about it, like, yeah, you want to go out with your friends as a teenager. Let's go to the mall. It's like, no, you got to look after your brother. can't go. So I could see why there's like some sort of resentment there. And then the time to go to college. Oh, I want to go to this college. And then my dad would be like, the college is too far. We don't, we don't trust you being that far. It might not be safe. you're going to this college right down the street. So he does things like that. And you, as a kid, or even as like a, like a late teenager, what could you do? Like your parents have control over everything, especially if they're like a parent that pretty much like. who serves control over every aspect of your life. Like it's very hard for someone to break away from that. I'm thinking in this situation of like the Beckhams, the matriarch of the house pretty much controls everything I'm thinking. How the family is viewed, how the kids are viewed, what the kids are doing, who the kids are friends with. Everything is very calculated. he probably grew up with a situation where it's like, there's a lot of stuff I can't do. There's a lot of stuff I have to do. At a certain point, I think it's straining to be put in this system. So I remember he just posted, like this is, I'm quoting him. The narrative that my wife controls me is completely backwards. I have been controlled by my parents for most of my life. I grew up with overwhelming anxiety. For the first time in my life, since stepping away from my family, that anxiety has disappeared. I wake up every morning grateful for the life I chose and have found peace and relief. What that pretty much tells me it's, it's that freedom from control. That freedom from control could really give someone like a rebirth on their life and the new perspective on life itself. So what do you think about that, Lisa? I, when I read that, it like, resonated so much for me because after I went no contact, I felt like a lot of the stress that I had. And also I felt like I had this like, this weight just just came off of me, like a weight lifted off of me, you A psychological weight. A psychological weight. I noticed a lot of changes in my body. My skin cleared up, because I used to have really bad cystic acne. I remember a few weeks after I no contact, and I was working things out in my mind. I went to go visit some friends, and they were like, Lisa, you seem different. You seem lighter. That was the term they said. I'm like, yes, that's how I feel. It's just lighter. Not dealing with so much toxicity all the fucking time. It was, my nervous system was actually breaking down. Dealing with a toxic person like a narcissist, you're going to create a lot of physical ailments. For me, I have fibroids. I guess that's one of the things. People, especially autoimmune disorders are very common for people who've dealt with narcissism. Narcissists. know lupus is one of them, fibromyalgia. If I hadn't gotten no contact, I don't know how my health would have been and how much more it would have deteriorated. Years ago, I was in a very toxic work environment, highly, like, was literally run by psychopaths. Like, you could diagnose them on the DSM, like, that's how toxic it was. It was screaming and throwing and anyway. So I remember my acne came back because it was such a stressful environment. And I noticed my body just sit reacting the same way it was while I was with my toxic family members. And I said, I need to get out of here. I didn't have, I didn't really have the money. I had a few bit of savings and I said, you know, I can leave and save up and find something else. Thankfully something lined up after the way it manifests when Brooklyn says, the anxiety, I don't feel that anxiety anymore. It totally resonated. And it's just too much of a burden to bear. And a lot of people don't, like I said, they don't have the luxury to, you know, distance themselves from toxic people. I don't know if you want to talk about this, you know, you've talked about physical stuff, like, no. Your hair, you don't have to talk about it if you don't want to. You were telling me about, you know, your hair loss and I'm sure it was related to the stress. Well, I'm trying to figure out if it was due to my stress, but the hair loss, even if it wasn't caused by the stress, I had like a kind of alopecia where little kind of like circular spots on my head would just have the hair fall out and for no explanation whatsoever. I heard that that was not caused by stress, but that seemed like more like a symbolic, like a visual representation of how much stress I was feeling at that time. Like I was under massive stress. I think this was during COVID time. My relationship with my parents were kind of like strained at that time. And it is true. Like stress does a lot of negative things to your body. Just, just having that weight and it is like, it's like having almost like a Think about it like your mom's situation. I'm not sure how much she weighs, but like 140 pounds of weight just like went off your back. It literally is someone feels like someone's holding you down and you're lifting extra weight. You're lifting extra weight going through life. It's like a 500 pound backpack. It's a backpack that affects your skin, affects your breathing, affects your stomach. I know a lot of people that have a lot of issues with their stomach just being like under anxiety all the time. Just it really. affects everything in your body. That's how critical stress management is. And to be, your body is going through, when you're dealing with these people, of on high alert every single time. It activates every time you see this person. That cortisol, the flight or fight response. Fight or flight, yeah. Repeatedly, if you deal with this person on a regular basis, especially if they're family members, you have to see them on a regular basis. Just think about having that every day. And unfortunately, they're family. And if you live in the same household, you just can't get away from that. You see them every day. It's a daily occurrence. And then after a while, your body just gets weaker and weaker, I feel like. At a certain point, you just, you feel like I either have to get out of my situation or I'm going to die here. That's pretty much what it's going to come down to. And it sounds like hyperbole, like I would be dead, but I think there was a meme or something on Instagram that said, if their absence brings you peace, they were the problem. When I talk to my friends and they tell me about their issues, I tell them, you know, that and they go, yeah, that's so true. And my life is so peaceful now. I mean, not a hundred percent, you know, I have my issues, but the peace that I feel, I wouldn't give that up to bring toxic people back into my life. Usually, a well adjusted adult from their childhood that has like a bunch of emotional capital from their parents, they're going to try to make it work. I know a bunch of people that have, this is why it makes me kind of sad sometimes. I see some of my friends, especially like on social media, you know, I know it's social media, but they do post about their parents and they have this They have good relationships with their parents where it's always like, my gosh, I wish I had that. Like people wished, I was like, that person has a nice sports car. I'm like, I'm just, I'm jealous. I'm like, I'm jealous with my friends that have a good relationship with their parents. Like I saw one recently where my friend bought her mom like a big screen TV and the mom was so happy. It just like, this is so fun. And then there's other things where they're like cooking together and they're playing with the grandkids. I'm like, I don't have that. I don't have that. I was like, sometimes I was like, feel lonely. But then I realized all my close friends kind of have issues with their parents. So, yeah. good. We're good. We're not alone. We're not alone. You're definitely not lonely. We're listening out there and you're listening to this. There probably is someone or yourself that's having issues with their parents. It's not as small community as you think. There's a lot of us. And this really shows it doesn't matter if you're what? Living in the car. middle-class Brooklyn Beckham. yeah. The Beckhams. There's some, it transcends what? Cultural backgrounds, nationalities, money. Yeah. There always is this thing where it's like, yeah, manipulation through some means. Especially we live in a capitalist society, the money is probably the ones that have the most leverage over someone at the moment. Right? It's interesting. What do you think is going to happen to the Beckhams? What do you think Brooklyn's going to do? Is he just going to stay quiet? My prediction? boy. That's a good question because I don't know them enough to make a prediction, but they might just turn into the new Meghan Markle and what's his face? Harry? That Markle and Prince Harry situation, it's like, you could tell it's like they don't like her because of where she came from. And her skin color. Probably. there's no doubt in my mind. Probably, but it's definitely she's a commoner, but not the commoner that we like. Yeah, because definitely they didn't view. Was it Prince William's wife? What's your name? Kate Middleton? Middleton. Yeah, yeah, that one. Yeah, it shows so much I know about the royal family. I mean, a lot of people based are like they're like fans of the royal family. Everything is like like I feel like that was a big thing when Princess Diana was alive, like people collect. stuff Princess Diane. That was like a thing. She seemed like a sweet lady. I mean, when I was in London a couple years ago, they're like, you want to see the changing of the guards? I'm like, no. I just want to go eat like Indian food. I heard the Indian food's really good in the UK. The best Indian food I've ever had. I've never been to India, but I know it's like outside of India, it's the fucking best. If you ever get the chance to go to Curry Mile. That's because there's a lot of Indians in England. And British food is disgusting. It's horrible. I've heard. I've heard. It's terrible. I tried it and I'm like, what the fuck is this? It's a mashed potato thing called bubble and it had peas inside and it was cold and lumpy and disgusting. I'm like, what the fuck is this? Like mashed potato. I've never known you can fuck up mashed potatoes. Yeah. Occasionally I look at like, you know, the football stadiums in England and they show like their stadium concession food. I'm like, where did we come from a place of hot dogs and like, you know, just nachos. And I look at that and was like, what is this? It looked awful. It looked awful. Everything looks like it's not cooked. The dough is raw or something like that. I have been told to, if you go to England and you want British food, try some of those sausage rolls. I haven't had one of those yet. Oh, I didn't have that. They said, that's the good stuff, but I'll try it next time. It's like, well, you saw David Beckham in the last episode. said, David Beckham, that Chipotle. I There weren't a lot of Chipotle's back then. I think this was late 2000s. So it might be like 2008, 2009. He was playing with LA Galaxy. And I was like, David Beckham outside of the United States will probably get mobbed. But he was in Beverly Hills. Probably we see celebrities on a regular basis. But okay, if you're from the UK and you come to LA, eat real Mexican food. Don't eat like fake Mexican food like Chipotle. I go to London to eat Indian food. You know what I mean? I don't know. feel like he, this is like a thing where it's like, if you go eat real like hole in the wall places and you're a celebrity, they're gonna do a photo op. Nobody does a photo op at Chipotle. That's probably why it's like, I don't need to do a photo op. just want something to eat. And I want to, because you go, you go to Chipotle. It's like everything was in, I know what that is. I know what that is. Simple. I think we're hungry because we must be hungry. We're talking about like one, it's like around like one 30 or two o'clock and you know. I really don't know what's gonna happen, because he's hearing it from both sides. Like there's people that tell him, hold it tight to your wrist, don't say anything. This is your personal stuff. You don't have to say anything you don't need to bring attention to yourself. That was from his father-in-law, who was like a billionaire businessman. And then you hear people from the other side. You hear like Meghan Markle say, maybe you should do like a expose on like a show with a host and stuff like that. He kind of shows that you damned if you do damned if you don't. There's a lot he needed to let out. Yeah, it's always a thing of controlling the narrative, right? So I'm not sure if Victoria and David going to say anything more than this. It seems like it was just a momentary blip in their lives. But if, again, if she's a narcissist, like people suspect she's flipping the fuck out. She's going through a fucking narcissistic meltdown. For anyone that doesn't know, like it started with the... planning of the wedding, the wedding dress, like how she was gonna like design the wedding dress. And then she backed out of it and they had to scramble for a wedding dress. But then there's a Vogue magazine saying that she had to work with Valentino for like almost a year to design the dress. there's, who do you believe? Or maybe she designed the dress, but it's for me, not her. It's for mama. It's not for daughter-in-law. Maybe, cause you know, Rich people have these weddings, these elaborate weddings. They don't have one dress. They tend to have like several different outfits. They have the dress and then there's an outfit for the reception and there's an outfit for... Not only for rich people. Some people, some brides I know have multiple dresses. The Indian weddings, it goes on for like a whole week and they have all these different even American weddings, they have multiple dresses. I know like, you know, some Asian weddings also have that, depending on the ceremony. They have multiple ceremonies. That's crazy. So the fact that, she was working Valentino, maybe she had multiple dresses. Maybe that was the thing. And Victoria has clout. Like, if she wanted a dress for someone or for herself, they could probably get it immediately. Right? So what was she trying to achieve by pulling, OK, you're not getting a dress? What happened? One could only speculate. And then it leads to the wedding. And apparently, Mark Anthony was there. That's right. He said, the most beautiful woman, he stepped forward and... Let's have a dance between the groom and the groom's mom, not the bride. And I was like, that's not weird at all. And I really want to see that video of anybody snuck in a picture or something like that. maybe like some people that were working that night, that were part of the wedding, that were like serving staff, they could really make a lot of money giving us that video. I know. Yeah. So what was she doing? She was grinding on her son or what? So that's what he said. Jesus, man. Dancing inappropriately. Why is the British dancing so inappropriately on top of me? Ken loves my British impressions. It's great. British people, they're still proper talking about us. They're wow, Lisa must have grown up in London. Did she grow up in the UK? Probably. Yeah. man. I thought she was Mexican, but it turns out. That Beckham thing is, think eventually it'll come to like a nice, you know, expose a couple years down the road and they won't know everything, but it's surely is like a telltale sign of, man, Victoria might be, she might not be very, I want to say normal. Like there's a lot of something wrong with her. Her, has control issues. Someone with eating disorders, they're trying to control something. I wouldn't be surprised if that extended out to her family. Well, I think because her image is so important to her and not just her image, her family's image, her husband's image, the whole brand. It's like, it's a lot of control over everything. So I'm thinking when Brooklyn wanted to like, leave the control, she went berserk. Yes, she saw that Nikola as a threat. That's right, yeah. And especially younger, younger than her. just as beautiful as Victoria comes from an even wealthier family than Victoria. Because Victoria came from a pretty upper class family, but I don't think she was like old money, like level of like billionaire status. I could see Victoria thinking of Nicola, Nicola's, this bitch, she's gonna steal my thunder. You know, we didn't start out this podcast to like talk about celebrities per se, but it mirrors so much of... what the average person goes through. And it's a really good reference, I think. Yeah. We don't have this same, like, well, I mean, like, fame, like, what, class of life, I guess. The human experience is very similar, too. Yeah. It doesn't matter how much money you have or where you came from. I feel like this just keeps repeating. It's like a, it's just human nature. No one's exempt from grief, especially when you're with a toxic person. man, doesn't matter how much money you have. It's just, it takes a toll on your body. Yes, you have more resources to handle it, extricate yourself from that situation. Yeah. Could end it on this. It's like, what I'm thinking, pretty much you can't put a value on that moment and that, that courage for when you actually lead that toxic situation. And when you do, just feels like so much weight has been lifted off your back when you do lead that situation. And really that situation, you can't put a price on that. Like that's, that's totally your enjoyment of life improves. You see the world around you be much brighter. And the thing is there's, there comes a point where even if you're being threatened to be like cut off financially from the family, all of that stuff is kind of not worth your sanity Ken: So about, I guess, the Beckhams had, insight from Gordon Ramsay, who's a family friend. Lisa: there was People magazine article, right? Where he, they interviewed him and he said, that, you know what? You just want me to do the British accent again, don't you? my God, you're obsessed. Gordon Ramsay, his British accent, I think that one is actually cockney. The Beckhams are the best. Ken: Yeah, yeah, just what British accent? I can't tell the difference. It's so natural. Lisa: There you go. Ken: And then, and then, and then they told, and then he told the reporters to get out of the kitchen. Lisa: They're their idiot sandwiches. Ken: Yeah, idiot sandwiches. Look at this, this is raw. Lisa: You're being manipulat- Ken: Well, that's pretty much what he said. He being manipulated. You're kind of thinking not clearly. You're just thinking with, guess you're thinking with the honeymoon period or with lust or something like that. So pretty much everything we talked about that people in the periphery that will support the parents is this is the playbook pretty much. Lisa: Yeah. Well. Yeah, you just wonder, he says, he has firsthand account of him being, of seeing them being really great parents. Which you know what, I don't doubt, I don't doubt that that's what he saw, that was his experience. But Sometimes you don't know what happens behind closed doors. And I can tell you how many people, you never knew that they had, very abusive parents and childhoods because everything seems so nice on the outside and they seem successful put together i think it begs the question how well do you know i mean ken let's say you said your dad has friends let's say if you cut off your dad your dad's friends say, his fiance's manipulating him? Ken: Well, he's I guess he's trying to find some people to actually follow his position. It's getting a little harder for him. But I do remember when he when I was younger, would go over to his friends like houses a lot and they will always say stories about their kids moving to the East Coast right after they got married and like they're moving away from their parents. And pretty much the narrative I got a feeling even as a kid that moving away from your parents is bad. And if you have a spouse that forces you to move away or makes you move away, that's bad spouse. So they already ingrained this kind of thought process in my head as a kid. I remember going there. was like, I think I was like eight or nine years old. I remember this. so and so's kid moved to the East Coast with his wife, I guess. I might as well just. put this in as like a race issue, like they were Asian, the wife of one of the sons was a white woman and among my dad and his friends is always like, well, that's what happens when you marry a white person. So believe me, that's like a thing that's deeply entrenched in like culture. I was already indoctrinated as a kid. So to have this kind of thought process work, but still in drop indoctrination whatsoever, you could break indoctrination after a while. It just takes longer. think. Um, so I already had this thought process from being raised that way. I think that's pretty common with families that are like for second generation and their parents are immigrants. That's what they're going to be pushing on you. Lisa: Hmm. Ken: I think for the Ramsey situation, he was promoting a new project. I guess someone asked him, a reporter asked him because he's a family friend to chime in. So we have to view this with a grain of salt. what, what could he say that would not paint the Beckhams in a bad light? I'm assuming he's a pretty close family friend. He doesn't want to David or Victoria. and go with the same trope that Brooklyn is a young one. He's not as seasoned, he's still young, he's immature. It's kind of like pushing that narrative, Lisa: Right, and he can't think for himself. Nikola is influencing him negatively, believes it when he said that none of the sort happened dancing inappropriately on her son. He said that never happened. He didn't see that. Ken: That really kind of like conflicts with what some other people said. So, and the thing is when you don't have kind of like a video evidence or you don't, you have a bunch of people, did everybody sign like a non-disclosure, like an NDA, like when they were at the wedding to not talk about this? Could be. like we said before, there's no camera footage. There's always like a... Like lying by omissions like maybe he was there. Maybe he didn't see that. Maybe he was in the bathroom. Gordon Ramsay was in the bathroom. So technically he is telling the truth. I didn't... Yeah, I didn't see it. That was not true. Well, that technically for him, it is true. Lisa: Yeah, maybe he to a He was in the loo. Ken: Yes, he was in the loo. is either that or he went back to the kitchen and said, there are, there are, are horrible cooks and they should be fired. You'll never work in this town again. Lisa: Yeah. Wait. Yeah, yeah, he was complaining. He was being a total Karen. But I heard he's not like that in real life. Gordon Ramsay. Ken: I heard it was like the American, guess, producers wanted him to be more angry because that's what we respond to, guess. Lisa: he just flips the fuck out over tiniest little things. Ken: I think he's more like... you ever watch him with like a MasterChef like juniors? He's more like that. He's like, man, it's kind of disappointing. You should really work on this. I think he's more like that. Lisa: I haven't seen it, but I've heard people say that he's a lot nicer to the kids. Ken: I really think that he's actually not that mean and they want him to have a persona so they can advertise it because every time they go on commercial break, it's usually him yelling at someone. it's like consistent. I'm like, he's really angry, closing the kitchen, telling them that they should, I don't know, go to hell or something like that. like your steak was uncooked. Maybe if you go to hell, like the steak will be actually properly cooked. Lisa: You know this whole thing, are you familiar with parental alienation syndrome? Okay. Well this is interesting. It's this theory where one parent Ken: I am not. Lisa: basically poisons the other parent against them. It usually happens like the guys will say, or like the fathers will say, I haven't seen my kid because my ex poisoned them against me you know, because children are susceptible. And, your dad's a horrible person. He didn't want you. He hates you, da da. And the kids grow up thinking it. I think it kind of falls along the line of parental alienation syndrome where your spouse tries to drive you away from your family. But that's what Gordon Ramsey is trying to implicate in this article. it's Nicola who's trying Brooklyn. Ken: Well, it's almost a type of scapegoating, right? It's blaming her for what Brooklyn is acting upon, right? might be young, but he has his own agency, right? That's just assuming that the wife is poisoning his brain. Lisa: Right. Ken: Yeah, so it's definitely viewing him as someone that doesn't have his own agency, right? Lisa: yeah, he can't think for himself. And one thing I've noticed about the parental alienation syndrome, which, you know, I was also a victim of it with my mom. she was always talking crap about my dad, always saying. But, know, when kids grow up and I have other friends, too, they went through the same thing. When they grow up, you realize who the safe parent is. You know. Ken: Yeah. Lisa: So I'm always very leery of when someone says they won't talk to me because, especially a grown adult, being brainwashed. That's the word brainwashed by their parent. just very skeptical. It happens, but it's so, so rare. And apparently there's this really good video about parental alienation syndrome that I guess the guy who created it, excuse me, psychologist, turns out he was like a pedophile or something. Dr. Anna had a thing about him, the parental alienation. It's really good if get the chance to watch it. Dr. Anna, she is very knowledgeable on YouTube. Yeah, I highly recommend it. You looking it up, Ken? Ken: I am not, but I am familiar with Dr. Anna. I'm just more intrigued about the guy that got caught for being a pedophile. How does that happen? Lisa: Yeah, mean, a lot of people in the mental health community are, a lot of mental health issues themselves. So it doesn't surprise me. That's why get a lot of crazy therapists and crazy psychologists. People are like, who say, I'm going to study psychology. You're like, oh, why? Ken: Yeah, because I remember in our last episode, we were talking about how just if you have like a kind of like a passion or you have like, like a firsthand knowledge of like a situation, you should become like a therapist or a psychologist that not necessarily always be a good thing, especially especially if you you're you're warped beyond repair, I guess. I mean, I mean, therapists see their own therapists, right? So Lisa: Thank yeah. Ken: Just because you become a therapist doesn't mean you're an expert and you know all and you know how to fix yourself. Most often than not, you're very aware of what you're going through so you know what to fix with your own therapist. but if you're screwed up I don't even know what you could say about that. Like really. Lisa: Yeah. So, frontal adenation theory was originally created by a pedophile sympathizer. Ken: man, that's some crazy story right there. Lisa: a sympathizer, but he doesn't say that he was a pedophile. Some people are saying online. I mean... Ken: I mean, the theory is sound, right? It's a sound theory. It's just, Lisa: It's so scary. It does happen a lot, especially with narcissistic parents, because they're so vindictive. you see that a lot in the court system, when you see a narcissistic parents, when they split up, they will do everything to get back at their ex, even if their children are casualties and they don't give a shit. Ken: definitely narcissists to have, they go above and beyond to frame a narrative to have their spouse like pretty much have their kids taken away or custody taken away. And this is all like a game in their head. So it's to destroy the other spouse credibility. And it happens a lot. don't think a lot of Lisa: Thank Ken: enough, like, uh, we say like enough gets put in the court system about people that act like this malicious intent. Um, some parents are like this and they, they pretty much weaponized what kind of, they're like building a case or weaponizing, and even pushing false narratives on the other parent so they could get what they want at the end. And I think a lot of the times it's not even that they want the kids is just they want to inflict pain on the other parent. Lisa: totally. The court system is not knowledgeable about narcissism. No. Ken: Yeah, it's not equipped to kind of fight against people that have this kind of like, agenda. So it's a very kind of like dangerous thing. Lisa: I don't know if you watched Judge Judy, but she has this quote that it's so good. It says, And I thought, is fucking brilliant, and she sees right through the bullshit. Ken: I think because she sees a lot of this stuff just, Lisa: she's very wise. Ken: Yeah, because she's seen as just repetition of her seeing all these things. I'm assuming even before she was in televisions, she saw this on a regular basis. She's like, I know what you're trying to pull. That's why she's like, she's so mean to us. it's like, whatever you're trying to say about your cases, I've seen this all before. Unfortunately, a lot of judges, I don't think, or even as skilled or even as sympathetic to look for stuff like that. Right. Lisa: Mm-hmm. Yeah, it's important. Right, exactly. think there's a default of like, I think it's of societal norms. They automatically grant the custody to the mom, even if the mom is toxic, it does happen a lot. It just shows the failure of the court system and the system's not, they're just not equipped to handle. recognized narcissism not aware of it, they're not knowledgeable. Ken: Well, yeah, if you're not personally like in a relationship with the narcissist, you tend to maybe believe what they say because why wouldn't you, right? Let's say you're like a social worker and you're analyzing like a family dynamic. If this person is telling you and they're giving you proof because you're looking at it, it's like, well, this person sounds like they're of sound mind. They're pushing a narrative, but why should I think otherwise? Right. so that's not much that the social worker could do unless they, they have some sort of like, was it, some sort of like psychology training? Right. I think some of them do, but it's, it's very hard to differentiate because a lot of narcissists are very good liars. So, why wouldn't you believe them? Lisa: And the manipulators. Ken: they're master manipulators. the thing is, I remember when I was a kid, I totally, a hundred percent trust my parents for everything they say. Not I w why would I even doubt it? Why would my parents lie to me? It's not until I'm older deaths finally realize that, yeah, they have as a parent, they want to have the best for you. At least that's what most parents that are like non-malicious or even like malicious, they, they want their kids to grow up to be well adjusted adults, but Remember, your parents are human beings. They have their own agenda. you have to be very careful that your parents have not been telling you the truth throughout your entire life. And when you get older, you're like you start fact checking things. You start asking around. You start looking at even like family tree documents, other other family members, relatives. Hey, my dad said this to me when I was a kid. Is this correct? And it's like, no, that never happened. I've been getting a lot of that lately. in my past 10 years. So that's really thrown my life into a spiral. So because of that, I've been manipulated. For what means? I'm still trying to figure it out, but you know, So we see in this situation with like the Beckham family, he's in his mid 20s. He's almost at that point where he's like starting to get like his... prefrontal cortex is being developed. He's starting to How old is he? Lisa: I think he's 27 now. Ken: Yeah, so he's at that age where he's like, I don't want to say like be conspiracy theory about a lot of things, but like start being skeptical about the things that are in your life, right? You can't, you could, I'm pretty sure he still loves his parents, but he's very keen to say like, well, my parents did this to me and this that to me. And really Gordon Ramsey is saying the correct thing as a family friend. Lisa: Mm-hmm. Ken: The only thing he could have said better in my opinion is like, well, they're going through like a spat. I'm pretty sure they're going to be like, they're going to resolve it. Don't worry about it. That's the, that's the best thing I think he could say. he did take the parent side. So I'm assuming he's like, you know, he's a parent himself. So, you know. Lisa: Yeah, he could have been more diplomatic and say, it's a sad situation. Ken: yeah, so he chose a side. So he chose the narrative where a child, know, kids would be kids, you know, they don't listen to their parents. You know, they're kind of dumb. Kids are dumb. He's pushing that narrative, right? Lisa: Mm-hmm. Ken: It's a very believable narrative. A lot of people that are parents will probably be like, yeah, lot of people that are like reading it on people or something like that or page six or something like that. If you're in the UK, they're like, I'm a parent. I could vibe with that. So a lot parents probably look at that and was like, yeah, my kid's kind of like that. I understand now. My kid's just being stupid. So they're probably pretty much putting a thing on him that, yeah, he's just a kid. Kids do this. Kids are rebellious towards their parents. Kids don't listen to their parents. Kids are like naturally against their parents. Lisa: Yeah, maybe. Ken: Well, know, discounting his experiences, Lisa: Mm-hmm. Ken: We only know as much as what's in the media, what the media is letting out, what he's letting out on his social media, Brooklyn is. So we're just trying to maybe dig deeper to see what is going on here. you could just imagine that one parent is getting maliciousness towards them. that's just how it is. It's just, this does happen pretty often, I'm assuming. Lisa: Yeah, you know, and I think about my own experiences with that. But eventually I saw through the bullshit. Ken: Yeah, because I'm thinking at a certain point your mom probably really did a number on your dad, so. Lisa: yeah. Yeah, well, my mom's a very vindictive person. Yeah, well, I do a mean Victoria Beckham. It's like, you're like, wow, it's killer. girl, girl, fish. Because it's the fish. I only eat good fish and vegetables, please. I know I'm in a Mexican restaurant, but everyone has to eat. Ken: Can you do it again? Like, is it about vegetables again? Can I have some grilled fish? and vegetables. Lisa: sell its we know Ken: in her defense, she's still really pretty and she doesn't look like a prune. Lisa: Yeah, mean, yeah, her body's great. I mean, there's a reason for that, but... Okay. Ken: Yeah. yeah, her body's a temple, but it's just like, you know, that doesn't, you know, please. If we should just be lucky enough to be sued by the Beckhams. Lisa: Great. Ken: we'll... we'll cut the episode. We'll do apology. Can we have an autograph? Lisa: do it. If we do our apology in a British accent, I think it'll be more impactful, I think. Ken: They're gonna be like that. It's like you could advertise with us as you want. And it's like, yeah. We'll pick your side, but you know, people will be like. Lisa: See you. Are you mocking me? Are you mocking my accent? No, no, no, it's out of respect. It's out of... It's a term of a near member. New York, but the other York. Ken: No, we're from York, New York. So it's like... No, this is actually how I think British people sound like. This is how I think British people sound like in my head. Lisa: In my head, yeah, right? Don't gaslight me, you know? Don't gaslight me. You notice how they don't pronounce the T's? Like, Harry po-ah, peanut po-ah. Ken: They talk like this. I like just like that sometimes they just say hospital. I have to go to hospital, not the hospital, hospital. Lisa: Hospital I have to go to hospital I go to uni I go to the uni is it fizzy drink for soda I like it though. I think we should adopt that fizzy drink Ken: fizzy drink. Lisa: That's okay, I do like British people, I don't... I just hate their food. Ken: Man, yeah, I heard their food is terrible. That's why they love curry so much. Because it's a lack of flavor. Lisa: yeah, we did a whole episode where we talking for 20 minutes about Indian food. Ken: Indian food, it's like, yeah, it's great. That's why British people love Indian food, because it has flavor. Lisa: Right? They conquered the world for spices. They didn't bother to use any of them. That's the... Ken: Well, now we're gonna have like a bunch of people in the frickin UK hate us. Well, the Irish are probably gonna like us because they don't like the British. It was like, yeah. Lisa: Yeah, because they're... I don't think they're food anymore. Ken: gosh, have you seen Chinese, Irish, Irish Chinese food is, terrible. Lisa: What? No, that's not a thing, is it? What? Ken: Yeah, they put rice and then they put like steak fries on top of it and then they put gravy. And it's supposed to be Chinese food. Lisa: Like a poutine? Poutine. With a gravy with the french fries, right? It's Chinese, Canadian, Irish. I don't know. Ken: Yeah, but how's that Chinese food? You said it was just like, was like Chinese was like, no. That sir is a, that's a KFC put potatoes with gravy, I'm like, and a bunch of cheese. I'm like, okay, that's KFC. Lisa: No, that's right, but those are the potato wedges. Ken: Yeah, they put it in there. was like, they put a bunch of gravy on there. I like, that's not Chinese food. I was like, yes it is. Lisa: Great. Ken: I don't know where they got it from. someone had someone woke like a Chinese guy that lives in Ireland and woke up one day. was like, Hey, I know the Irish are gonna like this gravy. Lisa: He's like, I got this. This is... Ken: put some rice in it. If I put rice in it, they'll think it's Chinese. Lisa: Wait, what were we talking about? What was the topic? Ken: I don't know British people are very mad at us. That's the top. Lisa: Gordon Ramsey, so how would you think he'd rate Chinese Irish Canadian? It was Chinese boutine. Ken: I'll probably give it like a scream and a half. It's like, this is terrible. Lisa: Scream in half. He's flipping tables right now. could probably, you could hear him like. Ken: He's flipping tables, he's telling people to go to hell. Yeah. Lisa: Fuck right off! What the fuck is this? Gravy? Ken: You know what's crazy? I saw him in one of those like Christmas movies, like those Hallmark movies, it was a lifetime movie. He was a guest in there. with Claire Forlani, who was like a pretty big actress back in the nineties. And like she was in that movie and she played like a reporter. And then the guy was like a mean British chef. And you know, she goes back to like Great Britain and stuff like that. the guy that's trying to open a restaurant, like the Lisa: The Shut up. Noooo. Ken: mean British guy is friends with Gordon Ramsay who doesn't make any sense but he was just in there. Lisa: That's so random. Ken: main guy was mean, but then the lady ends up with him. And that's every frickin' Hallmark groupie. Lisa: He changes him. Ken: He might be rough, but he has a heart of gold. Lisa: Oh yeah. Thank you all so much for listening. were very appreciative. want to say anything Ken? Ken: I don't even know. Does this end our episode? Lisa: Yeah, I think this is end of the episode, I think. Ken: this is the end of the episode, okay. Talk to you next time. Lisa: Yes, All right, Mr. Kenneth. Ken: Okay, bye Lisa. Lisa: Bye Ken, bye listeners. Ken: Bye.