Latest / Hell and Gone: Murder Line / 30 Years Gone

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30 Years Gone · Hell and Gone: Murder Line

• 0:08
  Speaker 1: School of Humans. As I go through the case file
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: one last time, three moments stand out to me. It's
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: September eleventh, nineteen eighty nine, two days after Janie Ward died.
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: It's around noon at the Junction Liquor store in Big Flat, Arkansas.
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: A pickup truck pulls into the parking lot. Gary Don
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: is the driver, and he's hauling two kegs off the
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: back of the truck. He comes inside says that one
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: of the kegs is untapped and he wants a refund.
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: His request is denied. The keg is several days old
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: and it hadn't been on ice. Gary Don asks again,
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: more aggressively. This time he is refused again. He hadn't
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: even brought one of the keg taps back. Gary Don
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: gives up. He slams the door of his truck, annoyed
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: that he couldn't get the money back. It's April two
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: thousand and seven and investigators are asking Sherry, who was
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: one of the passengers in Ron Roses truck, about the
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: night Janie died and what she thinks happened. There's no
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: one down there fighting, There is no one doing anything here.
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: She had no one who did find her there was
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: no boy that she was dating someone else's life, and
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: you know all those unders that have always gone around.
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: So that's why I just don't believe that anything happened
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: there in all these hears in school, even saying they're
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: rum and rumors among the kids. No, the only ones
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: who've ever made allegations and who brought up rumor had
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: been her parents and adults, not the kids. There's no
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: way that if something bad had happened, it would have
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: not somehow gotten through the kids in school. Even teachers
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: here things. The teacher's never heard anything because we see
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: these outside. So I mean, I don't know. I'm times
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: that anything happened to her. That same day, Investigators interview Kim.
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: She says that September ninth, nineteen eighty nine, was the
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: worst day of her life. Fourth day in my life.
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: I I can understand. It's been thirty years and we
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: still don't know how Janie Ward died. I'm Catherine Townsend
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: and this is Helen Gone. Janie's third autopsy was filled
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: with observers. There was a representative for the Ward family,
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: a forensic anthropology, and ABC had their FBI consultant, Brad
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: Garrett in the room. Brad worked at the FBI for years.
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: He worked on tons of high profile cases. Because of this,
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: he got the nickname doctor Death. When he first started
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: looking into Janey's case, even before the third autopsy, he
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: didn't think anything pointed to a homicide. Well, it was
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: really unclear to me based on the initial evidence that
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: looked at you. And I will say that it struck
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: me that the Arkansas State Police really did a great
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: job of trying to figure out what really happened at
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: this cabin. And I started get in the flavor of
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: and I totally ABC this early on was I'm not
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: sure this is a homicide. It could be, but it's
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: not in my mind, not at least at that point
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: going together as sort of a clearcutter of an homicide
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: that it really could be something else. Is there anything
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: specific that you remember about this case in terms of that.
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: Is it more challenging than cases like it? Is it
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: similar to what makes it different? The important thing for
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: the public to understand is that people form opinions about
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: what happens in cases. Obviously, families God bless them, form
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: their own opinions because it's very difficult. And let me
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: tell you I've worked a number of child deaths. It's
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: very difficult for parents to accept that, you know, their
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: child in effect either died by accident or by their
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: own hand. In this case, I'm not suggesting at all
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: this was by our own hand, but the point being,
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: there's like this opinion form. Then then the parents in
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: a very rural county now are promoting that this was
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: a homicide. They're not really going to be interested in
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: anything but an outcome that says that. And you made it.
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: You said something in the program about talking to the kids,
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: and you said it'd be hard to have a conspiracy
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: if there were something like twenty people with a similar story. Yeah,
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: I mean, I find most conspiracies laughable because you know,
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: I used to hear these constantly that you know, the
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: FBI colluded to cover up. You can't get two agents
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: to collude on something, so let alone to get an
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: entire system too, and what would be the motive of
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: doing that? But I realized that there was, you know,
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: controversy if that's the right word, with a local judge
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: and a local judge's daughter, and you know, allegations made
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: with really nothing factually just supported. Of course, many of
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: the suspicions that get brought up in the news articles
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: about Jane and on the Justice for Jennie forums have answers,
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: but these are still questions that get brought up constantly,
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: and rumors continue in Marshall across Arkansas and as Janie's
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: case continued to get traction across the nation. You know,
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: anytime you have I suppose public exposure of a case
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: that draws particular conclusions, or you know, for example, when
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: you look at the second autopsy, which you know, sort
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: of reinforce the Wards belief that Godter was murdered, you know,
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: you then you know, sort of get an emotional reaction
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: from the community as to you know, well maybe that's
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: what happened, you know, whether it's really true or not.
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: But you know, we're all i think suspect or vulnerable
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: to the stories of others in driving our own narrative.
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: I mean, that's the problem today and trying to figure
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: out what's actually true, and certain people speaks to just
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: accept it or question it as to well, that doesn't
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: make any sense, it's probably not true. And so you know, people,
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: particularly folks like average everyday citizens, they don't really know,
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: I mean from the standpoint of what is it? What
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: does it take to actually prove these cases? Is there
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: really any evidence to support one's or the other other
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: than this sort of idle chat about it or what
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: some media outlet might say about it. I will tell
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: you because I've worked so many high profile cases that
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: I just sort of ignore all that because you know,
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: the facts are the facts, and wherever they drive you to.
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: Now you know, sadly the facts don't always because maybe
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: even the lack of facts or evidence, you know, they
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: draw you to not a really solid conclusion. When I
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: talked to the ward's lawyer, Jerry Sallings, he didn't think
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: the first investigation was done very well. But Brad Garrett
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: said he thought the Arkansas State Police did a pretty
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: thorough job investigating what happened, particularly because it was all
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: happening in such a small town. I know, I was
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: a little surprised the witness statement seemed really short, and
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: also they didn't I was surprised that weren't They weren't
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: separated in question that night and in a more fair away, right,
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: because I thought that made it difficult later. Right, So,
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: investigative protocol is supposed to sort of be the template
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: of how you investigate a case, separate the witnesses, sort
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: of locked down the scene, and basically you don't let
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: anybody leave, or you make sure you've got the names
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: of all the people that were there, which in a
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: place like Marshall, Arkansas, shouldn't be that difficult. But you
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: still have to understand that I doubt if they were
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: thinking that way. Let's face it, a deputy sheriff in
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: that county, I'm sure doesn't make much money. That obviously
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: affects the quality of person you're going to get. And again,
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: it's nothing against the people who were there who did this,
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: It's just that it's going to be hard to get
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: somebody that really has a lot of experience or super
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: qualified to work in a super rural county unless they've
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: got some passion about living there. On Janie's death certificate,
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: both the and the cause of death are still undetermined.
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: But because it's not definitive, can we say that the
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: Wards are completely wrong in their perception of what happened,
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: that their daughter was murdered, and can anything we find
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: support what the family believes. You're not going to make
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: any family feel better unless it fits the fact patterns
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: as to how they want it to be, and so
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: could anything else be done in this case to support
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: the family's fact pattern And I don't think there is,
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: because I don't think there's evidence to support that. You know,
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: like that one totally unreliable witness claimed that she was
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: struck with a board or a bat or a club
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: and that she went down. First of all, there was
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: no evidence, there was no forensic evidence on her body
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: to support that. But again, there's nothing to suitue that
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: any of that occurred. So you know, I've walked away
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: from a number of families basically telling them literally everything
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: I could tell them about a case that was appropriate
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: to tell them, and you know, they're just not happy
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: with what I'm saying, and I fully accept that and
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: say I totally understand, so that I can only be
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: driven by the facts, my own experience, what the forensics
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: tell me, and I have to go with that. So
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: you know, I'm open to if you or somebody else
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: could tell me that contradicts what this sort of general
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: conclusion is about this particular case. Great, but nobody has
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: ever come up with that because I just don't think
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: it exists. Now, I will say one thing about that
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: you know, every case is like a pie. Investigators have
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: part of it, The prosecutor obviously has a huge part
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: of it. The medical exam there and the medical professionals
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: for instant anthropologies, et cetera have a part of it.
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: But you have to take each one of them in perspective,
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: you know, And what if you put them all together,
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: then what do you have, you know, with all the
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: failings and biases and pinions and so forth. But what
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: do you have at the at the end of all that,
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: of that pie going together? And you know, and so
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: I say that in that when you take the first
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: or second autopsy, Okay, they found X or Y, fine,
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: is there anything beyond with the medical examiner, Let's face it,
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: that's a political examination of a body that's not with
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: all the facts and circumstances that cops, detectives, prosecutors are
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: finding through evidence collected through interviews with people at the sea,
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: people who saw her fall, people who thought she was choking,
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: people who poured beer on her. If that was the case,
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: all of these things, you know, the medical him were
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: supposed to stick to his or her lane. This is
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: what I found in the autopsy, and it great. And
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: then you go from there. So what you have in
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: this case is a third autopsy by a sort of
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: a seasoned professional and a forensic anthropologist to tell you
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: the fact pattern that she was beaten to death with
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: something is not there. We'll be right back. We've been
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: able to answer some questions about the circumstances surrounding Janie's death.
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: Our producer, Gaby and I sorted through what we know,
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: what we don't know, and at this point what we
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: can't know. One of the things that the family thought
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: was suspicious was the fact that Jannie's dad, Ron Ward,
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: said that he had seen Jane in a different shirt
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: when he saw at the morgue the night that she died,
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: versus what he saw in some photos that the investigator,
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: Bill Beach had showed him a couple of weeks later.
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: We did look into the shirt and we did figure
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: out some things about the shirt. So what were some
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: of those things. Well, we figured out first of all,
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: that Jane stayed the night before the party with her
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: friend Leslie, and according to Leslie, Janny borrowed that shirt
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: from her, and so she was wearing both. Multiple witnesses
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: said that they saw her wearing the black t shirt
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: over the white pin striped shirt, because, including ambulance attendants
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: who were trying to revive her at the scene, they
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: specifically remembered rolling the sleeves up and pulling up the
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: bottom of the shirt to expose her stomach, and rolling
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: up the sleeves to expose her arms. At some point,
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: someone must have removed the white pin striped shirt and
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: what happened to that item of clothing is a mystery
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: because we know that it was lost by law enforcement
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: at some point. And that's just another one of the
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: tragedies of this case because one of the biggest questions
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: that the family had was why how she got all
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: that debris under her clothes and what exactly that was.
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: And of course you know, now with forensic testing, who
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: knows what could be accomplished, But they lost the evidence. Okay.
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: So one of the other big questions that the journalist
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: Mike Master said brings up and his column is this
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: idea of the ninety missing minutes, And he brings it
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: up because there's a police dispatcher named Harold Young who
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: said that the truck in the route from the party
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: to the bank parking lot did stop at the police station.
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: So what have we been able to figure out about this?
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: It's very confusing. Well, I think the ninety missing minutes
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: is like a classic example of something that was it
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: was put out there and it's not necessarily correct because,
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: first of all, in a lot of the early reports,
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: I saw that the time of the sunset was wrong.
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: It was it was described as being around six thirty,
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: when in fact it was around seven thirty. And everyone
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: at the party basically said that they said when people
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: when things started happening, when things started to go wrong,
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: when all hell broke loose, it was around dusk, which
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: would have been around seven thirty, not six thirty. And
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: Harold Young made that statement, but he also said that
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: he called the ambulance service, and the two people from
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: the ambulance service who were interviewed by the police both
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: say they never received that call. So their discrepancies in
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: Harold Young's statement. And Ron Kim and Sherry, who were
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: all in the truck, they all told police that they
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: never stopped anywhere, so they are all their statements match. Now,
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: could three people have concocted a story, possibly, I mean,
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: but their statements do match. And Harold Young GE's an outlier.
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: He really is the outlier in that. And I think
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: another thing that we found that was really important is
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: that there may have been missing time, but I don't
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: believe it was ninety minutes. It wasn't hours. You know,
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: it may have been half an hour or longer, but
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: it wasn't you know, it doesn't seem that it was
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: an hour and a half. I think I do think
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: that's six thirty times probably could not have been right,
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: just based on what everyone at the party. Everyone else
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: at the party said they saw. Okay, So another one
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: of the big rumors is that she was hit in
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: the face with a baseball bat and killed at the
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: party by another Marshall High School student. People would often
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: say it was Sarah, who was a popular cheerleader who
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: came from prominent family in the town. Her dad was
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: the judge. But it seems in our investigation that there's
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: very little evidence that supports that theory at all. We've
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: really looked into this theory and the possibility this could
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: have happened, but we just can't find any evidence to
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: point to it. I mean, there are a lot of
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: rumors about, you know, something that happened to the party,
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: but again, when you go back and look at them,
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: You look at the statements, you find the people. It
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: turns out that, oh it's just something I heard. And
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: usually they didn't even hear it secondhand. Usually it's third
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: hand or fourth hand. And you know, were there was
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: there some truth to it, Yes, I mean Sarah, I
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: think because she was a she was a judge's daughter,
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: because she did have a temper. She'd admittedly like assaulted
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: a couple of other girls, and she got in a
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: fight with a boyfriend slapped him in the face. I mean,
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: there's there's she had a temper. And also she told
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: the police, she lied to the police about who she'd
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: come to the party with, and they were inconsist since
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: he's in her story. So I can see where that
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: all taken together could lead people to conclude she had
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: something to do with it. And also a lot of people,
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: you know, they just didn't like her. They didn't like her,
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: they didn't like her attitude, and that led them to
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: believe that she could have had some role in this.
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: But again, like none of the forensic evidence points to that,
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: not one person that the party said they saw anything
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: like that. The one witness that we did find who
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: said she saw Jane's struck with a baseball bat. We've
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: talked to her, you know about how problematic her testimony is.
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: She's had a couple of different stories, and again, if
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: she was struck with a baseball bat, you would see
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: much more catastrophic injuries to her face. When I talked
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: to the neurosurgeon the first autopsy, one of the biggest
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: tragedy was such a simple mistake and something that should
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: have been corrected really early. Fami Malick referred to the
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: injury as a hyper extension injury rather than a hyperflection injury,
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: which you know, they're two completely different things. Then you
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: have all this confusion about whether her head snapped forward
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: or backward, and that led to, you know, the rumors
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: that she was hit in the face with something which
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: would have snapped her head backward, and that led to
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: you know, who could it have been? And the doctor
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: branella autopsy. So I just think you can just really
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: see how one little simple thing can just have this
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: catastrophic effect on an investigation if it's not caught early
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: and not dealt with. So throughout this case, a lot
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: of what we've seen is that the wards will say
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: one thing and then other people will say something else,
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: like you know, they said they saw a clear fracture
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: in the X ray when they visited the crime lab,
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: but then in the X rays that they got sent
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: to them a few weeks later showed the spine blocked out. Also,
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: they said that they received death threats, And there's just
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: sort of some of these these sorts of things that
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: it doesn't see. There's doesn't seem to be any way
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: to prove one way or another because it is what
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: they saw versus what other people heard and saw. Yeah,
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: I think that there are some things that we it's
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: very difficult to prove one way the other. Like, for example,
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: we can never know what Ron actually saw when he
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: saw Janie's body. He described it, but obviously we can't
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: know that we weren't there, and we also can't know,
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: you know, when Ron Amona saw the X rays and
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: they say that the X rays they saw later were different,
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: We really have no way of knowing that either. But
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: what we can say is that they definitely felt that
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: the system was not working, and they felt people weren't
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: helping them, and they felt that people in power were
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: being treated differently, and they also were afraid and they
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: were so afraid that they moved and they put their
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: other daughter in a different school and said they were
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: getting death threats. So there was definitely they seemed to
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: feel that there was an atmosphere of fear in the town.
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: When we talked to Richard Walter from the Vedok Society,
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: he described a similar environment in Marshall, and a lot
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: of other people did too. Several reporters said that people
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: weren't cooperative or weren't helping. And then there was another
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: journalist we talked to who said they received threats too.
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: So it's only it's a few people's word, but we
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: can't get inside their head and know their experience. We
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: can only report what they said to us. One of
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: the most frustrating things we can't know is Janey's full
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: toxicology report. Some listeners brought up this theory from the beginning.
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: Could Janey have been poisoned by accident? At the party,
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: the host Jay made PGA that's pure grain alcohol punch,
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: and in it he put orange slices that had been
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: soaked overnight in rubbing alcohol. Here's his interview with Bill
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: Beach again describing the punch. There's been some discussion about
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: the fruit that would put in time. Was there any
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: special preparations taken of soaked the fruit for to over
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: twenty fires reven alcohol? What was the purpose for that?
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: He seemed like a higher content. Danny koorol rode alcohol out,
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: pray pulses or over the Very little alcohol and no
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: drugs were found in Janie's system. Her blood alcohol level
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: was point zero five. That's about one drink, but that's
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: ethyl alcohol. Rubbing alcohol is isopropyl alcohol, and in the
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: first autopsy, doctor Malick didn't test for it. One of
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: the pathologists who reviewed doctor Malik's work in nineteen ninety
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: two pointed out that the toxicology screens were limited to cannabis,
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: ethyl alcohol, drugs, and lead. Rubbing alcohol poisoning is rare,
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: but it can be fatal. According to the National Library
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: of Medicines Hazardous Substances Databank, it's acute potency as a
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: central nervous depressant is about twice that of ethanol eight
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: ounces as a lethal dose, but as little as one
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: hundred millilters or just over three ounces can be fatal.
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: So I had her producers Gabby and tay or do
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: an experiment. We wanted to see how much fruit Janey
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: would have had to consume to ingest eight ounces of
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: rubbing alcohol. So they follow Jay's recipe and soak the
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: fruit for twenty four hours. Okay, so basically what we've
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: done is we have three different oranges. We have an
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: orange that's cut into pieces of four, we have eight
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: pieces smaller pieces, and then we also have one that's peeled.
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: With these three oranges cut into different quantities, we're trying
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: to see if it's possible for one orange to absorb
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: enough rubbing alcohol to be fatal. Basically, can the oranges
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: absorb a lethal dosage of rubbing alcohol? That's a lot
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: about rubbing alcohol and not very much orange. It's been
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: twenty four hours and we take a look at what happened.
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: Doesn't look like that much of the rubbing alcohol was
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: actually absorbed in them, and that was in our different
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: control environments, and it looks like only about three yeah,
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: about three ounces was probably absorbed by the fruit pieces.
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: We determined that to get to the lethal amount of
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: eight ounces, Janie would have had to eat around three oranges.
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: That's not impossible to imagine, but that's a lot of oranges,
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: especially considering the fact that they smelled so strongly of
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: rubby alcohol. But with one hundred millilters, she would only
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: have to consume about one orange. In several witness statements,
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: partygoers mentioned that Jane was chewing on the pieces of fruit.
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: In fact, Ron Rose specifically said she ate a cup
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: of the fruit. He said she may have thought that
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: this would be weaker than just drinking the punch, and
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: in a police report, investigator Bill Beach said that when
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: he went up to the cabin that night, he found
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: orange piels on either side of where Jane had fallen,
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: and though the orange PILs were bagged and logged into evidence,
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: they were never tested. In that first autopsy, doctor Malick
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: said that Jane had ten ounces of digested food matter
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: in her stomach, so Jane was drinking and consuming the
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: fruit on a relatively empty stomach. He wrote, though that
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: in the stomach tomato particles are encountered, no oranges are noted.
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: We reached back out to doctor Grace Duke's, the pathologists
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: who had reviewed the three autopsies for us in the
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: last episode. First off, we wanted to know if doctor
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: Malick could tell the difference between tomatoes and orange particles.
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: No one else mentioned tomatoes or a food of any
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: kind at the party, And since doctor Malick only did
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: a visual inspection of the food particles, could he actually
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: tell the difference between tomatoes and oranges that had been
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: soaked in the red PGA punch. Sometimes you can tell
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: exactly what it is, sometimes you can't tell it all.
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: But if she were not chewing well, it'd be fairly
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: obvious what was in there, especially if it were a
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: mix with just liquid where it could separate out easily.
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: If he says that he saw pieces of tomato, I
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: would imagine that that would mean something fairly specific to
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: a tomato, like either the seeds or a large piece
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: of food. In terms of the oranges, it's kind of
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: like if you were to again people choose their food
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: to varying degrees. It's kind of like if you were
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: to put food in a blender and blend it up
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: a little bit. If you only blended up a little
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: you could definitely still tell that there were orange pieces,
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: you know how it has that kind of fibrous look.
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: But if it were, you know, if it were chewed
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: beyond recognition, or it spent a lot of time in
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: her stomach. You would potentially not be able to tell that.
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: So the answer is maybe, maybe not. But people frequently
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: will report which type of food items they've seen in
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: the stomach contents. Doctor Duke's described some of the effects
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: of ingesting rubbing alcohol. The thing with rubbing alcohol being
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: isoid propyle alcohol rather than ethanol, which is what we
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: think of as you know, drinking alcoholic beverages would be
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: ethanol isodprople alcohol. The effects of that would essentially be
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: the same as ethyl alcohol. There would be the same
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: sort of in an inebriated person, you know, impaired balance,
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: slurred speech, things like that. The difference is that with
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: isopropenol you're going to have more of an intoxicating effect
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: than with ethanol. So really the effects you see would
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: not be different, they just might be more pronounced in
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: someone who's ingested isopropenol. The level of alcohol that is
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: fatal in a person varies quite a bit. There are
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: some limits that have been set previously as sort of
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: the norm, as in, you know, this is a lethal
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: level when this is not, but that can vary according
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: to tolerance. Most teenagers haven't had enough, you know time
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: to build up their tolerance, but it can certainly vary,
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: so really the answer is that there's no specific limit.
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: With this in mind, Janie could have had even less
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: than eight ounces and had enough in her system to
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: make her sick. Her mom, Mona, and people who knew
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: her so that Jannie wasn't much of a drinker, so
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: she most likely had a low tolerance. Isopropyle alcohol has
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: a lot of the same symptoms as being drunk, drowsiness,
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: slurred speech, stumbling, headache, and vomiting. If someone is over intoxicated,
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: their heart beat slows down, their breathing becomes more rapid,
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: blood pressure drops. They may have seizures or collapse. They
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: may experience pulmonary swelling or inflammation of an excess fluid
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: in the lungs. This can make breathing difficult and cause
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: oxygen deprivation. If not treated in time, it can cause
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: cardiovascular collapse and death. The body rapidly absorbs isopropyle alcohol.
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: Symptoms are at their height from thirty minutes to two
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: hours after consumption. The bottom line is isoproble alcohol hits
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: fast and hard. Doctor Mallet noted in his autopsy that
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: there was intense congestion in Jennie's lungs and in her liver.
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: I wondered if this could be a symptom of alcohol poisoning.
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: So those those autopsy findings are not specific to an
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: alcohol poisoning. And when you say alcohol poisoning, that just
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: that just means over over intoxication, right to the point
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: that it's toxic to your body. But there aren't going
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: to be necessarily specific findings associated with it. It's essentially
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: a It has a CNS depressant effect, and then if
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: one were to keep consuming and consuming and consuming, then
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: it would potentially cause general, generalized sort of organ failure.
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: But it's primarily based in the CNS depressant effect, meaning
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: you know, depressed sensorium, which would eventually contribute to decreased breathing,
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: which would potentially progress to death based on what doctor
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: Dukes is saying. Just like we've seen before, so many
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: of Jane's symptoms are not specific to her particular cause
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: of death. But rubbing alcohol poisoning is possible, yes, So
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: if it were president at a high enough level, it
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: would certainly be a potential cause of death. The issue
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: is just that we don't have a level reported if
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: it were present at all, Doctor Duke said that if
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: it were to the point of being lethal, Janie would
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: have been visibly intoxicated. In the witness statements, only a
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: few people mentioned that Jane seemed drunk. One was Sarah.
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: Sarah said that when Janie called her a snob, Jannie
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: was stumbling up to her and warned her not to
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: eat the fruit. Ron Rose said that Jane appeared to
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: be intoxicated shortly before her death. Jay said the same
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: thing in his reenactment video. We may never know for
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: sure what killed Janie, but we have to look probability,
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: and we found some other pieces of evidence in the
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: investigation that do suggest rubbing alcohol poisoning. Lividity or darkening
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: of the skin due to blood pooling sets in at
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: around two hours after death, but more than one person
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: noticed that Janey started turning blue almost immediately. One partygoer
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: said she started turning a darker color all over. Then
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: one of the ambulance attendants who treated Jane at the
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: scene in the bank parking lot made the comment, she
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: was not as blue as my genes, but she was
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: getting blue, turning blue, especially blue coloring of the lips.
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: Or cyanosis is an indicator of oxygen deprivation, which is
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: one of the symptoms of rubbing alcohol poisoning. Ron Ward
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: said that when he saw Jane in the morgue, she
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: had blood around her mouth. Blood in the mouth can
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: come from gastric distress, which is yet another symptom of
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: isoprobe alcohol poisoning. Another thing was that one of the
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: ambulance attendants had smelled a faint perfume on Janie. A
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: fruity smell can indicate keytnes in the urine, which is
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: again another symptom of alcohol poisoning. As we said, alcohol
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: poisoning can also lead to cardiovascular collapse, and in the
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: third autopsy, doctor Plus did suggest that Janie could have
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: died from a heartarrhythmia. If Janie collapsed from alcohol poisoning,
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: her condition might have been exacerbated at the party. She
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: was lying on the ground gasping for breath when at
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: least one person, in an attempt to revive her, threw
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: a cup of beer on her. Another person had mentioned
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: a cup of water also being thrown on her. This
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: could explain the fluid in her lungs that doctor Malick
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: had noted in the first autopsy. So if Jannie was
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: already suffering from over intoxication and central nervous depression, she
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: wouldn't have been able to expel this fluid from her lungs,
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: an she might have experienced some symptoms of drowning. One
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: is that your throat closes up to prevent any more
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: fluid entering the lungs, and when your throat closes up,
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: that can cause hemorrhaging, which was noted in the third autopsy.
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: It's possible that at that point she blacked out. I
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: hope so, because the alternative is that she was on
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: the ground, helpless, paralyzed, and unable to ask for help
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: while everyone continued to party around her and pour beer
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: down her throat she lay dying. We'll be right back.
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: The reason I'm an investigator is because I want to
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: answer family's questions. But in Janie's case, I can't definitively
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: answer the big question of how she died. Remember Parents
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: of Murdered Children. That's the organization where the Wards found
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: doctor Burnell and the v doc's Richard Walter. When we
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: talked with their executive director, Bev Warnock. We also spoke
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: with their volunteer coordinator Sherry Nolan. She became involved with
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: the organization when her daughter, who was pregnant, was killed.
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: I was talking about and one of my goals as
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: an investigator is to help families. But when I mentioned closure,
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: she told us that isn't something we or anyone can
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: provide for a family. Well, we make sure we don't
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: use the word closure. No one likes to hear the
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: word closure. We hit someone here that used to say,
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: the only thing that closes is the list of the coffin.
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: The grief is so devastating to them. You know, it's
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: not just have the funeral and then you try to recover.
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: They have to go into the justice system, and then
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: years later the pearl block system. So it never ends
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: for them. It never you know, and it's not something
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: you can you know, after a couple Montiers, you know,
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: you can kind of feel like you're moving on because
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: you can't. You know, your mind is just consumed with
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: guilt that you didn't say they loved them before they least,
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: or you know, any other kind of guilt. There might
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: be a lot of survivors. The healing process is to
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: talk about it and to be with other families is
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: to be able to talk to them because they understand
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: no one else would understand. But we also make it
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: very clear that we understand the grief and the pain,
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: but we don't understand individually their grief and their pain,
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: because no one knows exactly how I feel. It was
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: my daughter, my granddaughter, But I understand the pain and
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: grief that we all go through, and I never you know,
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: a lot of questions that survivors ask is when does
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: it get better when you get over it. I think
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: that they answer that because other people say it, and
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: so I always say, it's not that it gets better,
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: it's just that it's different. Never say that they'll be healed.
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: It's a healing process that will never ask never tell
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: them that they'll be over it at any point in time,
• 34:50
  Speaker 1: because that grief's journey is a journey that you'll always
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: be on. At the beginning of this investigation, I thought
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: that people might be more forthcoming because so much time
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: is passed. I also thought more people would come forward
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: with renewed pressure on the case. But the thing is
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: they might have already come forward with everything they know,
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: and over the years there has been a lot of
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: pressure on the case. It was reopened in two thousand
• 35:17
  Speaker 1: and four, reinvestigated, and was a high profile case in
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: the state of Arkansas. I wondered if anything could have
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: been done for her at the party, could she have survived?
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: I asked ABC's FBI consultant Brad Garrett about this in
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: all the stories, I mean, do you think that there's
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: anything that they could have done more to help her? Well,
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: you know, when you talk about people helping other people,
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: you have to get to look at it in context.
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: Where are you. You're sort of in the middle of
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: nowhere in Arkansas, which means, you know, the luxury of
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: where you all are, Like I'm in Washington, d C.
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: If you started to choke on something, you could probably
• 35:58
  Speaker 1: get an ambulance and or the fire department to your
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: house in five or six minutes. Probably not realistic. In
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: martiall arc and they did in my view, and you
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: know other could they have done something at the scene?
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: Maybe maybe not. I mean, if you believe that in
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: affect Janie choked to death. If you believe that that,
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: I'm not sure what they could have done unless there
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: happened to be a paramedic or an EMT. But you're
• 36:26
  Speaker 1: talking a bunch of high school kids. So the odds
• 36:28
  Speaker 1: of that weren't great. And so they did really what
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: I would think is the next best thing. They didn't
• 36:33
  Speaker 1: wait for emergency services to come to them, if in
• 36:37
  Speaker 1: fact they even exist. They put them in the back
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: of a pickup truck. Now, it was sort of unclear
• 36:42
  Speaker 1: about how much of a lag there was between when
• 36:46
  Speaker 1: she went down off the porch of this cabin and
• 36:50
  Speaker 1: when she was actually taken. You know, I got different
• 36:52
  Speaker 1: time periods. But at some point they said, we've got
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: to get her to a doctor or to somebody that
• 36:59
  Speaker 1: can take a look at her. So what ultimately is
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: Jane's story. Janey's story is a tragedy. It's a story
• 37:12
  Speaker 1: about a town where there was enough distrust between some
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: of its citizens and the authorities that wild rumors could
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: be believed. It's also a tragedy that a lot of
• 37:22
  Speaker 1: the people in Marshall, Arkansas are tired of hearing about.
• 37:27
  Speaker 1: And it's a story about a family who never got answers.
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: Jane died in nineteen eighty nine at the age of sixteen,
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: and her father, Ron Ward, spent thirty years investigating his
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: daughter's death, which was almost twice as long as she
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: was alive. Ron is gone now as well, and I
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: can't help but admire him. He wanted the truth, He
• 37:53
  Speaker 1: wanted to live in a world that had answers and justice.
• 37:57
  Speaker 1: He wanted his daughter back. Throughout this season, people have
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: continued to reach out to us about unsolved cases. Parents, siblings, friends, spouses.
• 38:09
  Speaker 1: They are all desperately trying to find out what happened
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: to their loved ones. I think about season one and
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: Rebecca Gould's father and sister, Larry and Danielle, who were
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: still trying to get justice for her. I've learned a
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: lot from ren Ward. He shows us that you can
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: go a long way if you don't give up. You
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: can get a case reinvestigated, a special prosecutor appointed, and
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: even another autopsy conducted. You can also get the information
• 38:39
  Speaker 1: made public so that other people can come in and
• 38:41
  Speaker 1: try to get answers. I've learned the importance of never
• 38:45
  Speaker 1: losing faith in the fact that one person can make
• 38:49
  Speaker 1: a difference. With enough pressure and time, anything can happen.
• 38:55
  Speaker 1: It's a lesson that I'm taking to heart as I
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: continue to investigate Rebecca Gould's murder. At the beginning of
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: the season we talked about time travel. On that fateful
• 39:04
  Speaker 1: night in nineteen eight eighty nine, many of the partygoers
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: were teens themselves. Thirty years later, a lot of those
• 39:12
  Speaker 1: kids are adults with kids of their own. A lot
• 39:16
  Speaker 1: of them have teens who are the same age as
• 39:18
  Speaker 1: they were when Jane died, and right now those teens
• 39:23
  Speaker 1: might be heading out to parties and cabins in the woods.
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: I'm Katherine Townsend and this is Helen Gone. Helen Gone
• 39:40
  Speaker 1: is a joint production between School of Humans and iHeartRadio.
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: It is written and recorded by me. Catherine Townsend. Taylor
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: Church and Gabby Watts are our producers and story editors.
• 39:52
  Speaker 1: Executive producers are Brandon Barr, Brian Lavin, and el C.
• 39:56
  Speaker 1: Crowley for School of Humans and Connell Byrne and Chuck
• 39:59
  Speaker 1: Bryant for iHeart. Our Field producer is Miranda Hawkins. Theme
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: and original school are by Ben Sale, available wherever you
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: get your music. Please visit us at Helegoon podcast dot
• 40:12
  Speaker 1: com or follow us on social media. School of Humans