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Transcript

Muriel's Wedding · The Bechdel Cast

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: On the Bechdecast, The questions asked if movies have women
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: and them, are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: or do they have individualism? The patriarchy Zeph and Beast
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: start changing with the Bechdel Cast.
• 0:16
  Speaker 2: Oh hello, Jamie, Hello, Hello, what's up? How are you?
• 0:21
  Speaker 3: Oh?
• 0:21
  Speaker 2: I'm doing pretty good.
• 0:23
  Speaker 3: How are you? I'm doing all right. Yes, it's just
• 0:26
  Speaker 3: nice to sit down and watch an Australian film. So true,
• 0:31
  Speaker 3: Australian films are so slipped on, wouldn't you agree? I agree,
• 0:35
  Speaker 3: absolutely slipt on that Tony collects a stuff.
• 0:40
  Speaker 2: She really is and I always forget she's Australian because
• 0:43
  Speaker 2: most of the roles I've seen her do she's doing
• 0:47
  Speaker 2: an American accent. Yes, I feel like she is.
• 0:50
  Speaker 3: She then, and we've talked about this on the show before,
• 0:52
  Speaker 3: but I never I never tire of this line of discussion.
• 0:56
  Speaker 3: But like she and Margot Robie, I feel like our
• 1:00
  Speaker 3: our our strongest stealth Australians that I'm aware of, unless
• 1:05
  Speaker 3: there's more and we we just don't know.
• 1:09
  Speaker 2: Solely true, because there's Nicole Kidman's always kind of slipping
• 1:14
  Speaker 2: into her.
• 1:14
  Speaker 3: I would not, I would not she is. I would
• 1:18
  Speaker 3: not say that. I'm like, really, Nicole Kidman's Australian, nothing
• 1:23
  Speaker 3: but respect, but like she's constantly falling out of it. Yeah,
• 1:27
  Speaker 3: in a way that I simply love. I find it
• 1:30
  Speaker 3: very charming. Oh oh my gosh, no, wait, you're not
• 1:34
  Speaker 3: a Succession head Sarah Snook. Sarah Snook, who plays the
• 1:39
  Speaker 3: daughter Shive on Succession, is Australian and in all four
• 1:44
  Speaker 3: seasons I have I'm sure Australian folks would catch smaller slips,
• 1:49
  Speaker 3: but I like caught one slip and it was so
• 1:52
  Speaker 3: funny because she just couldn't say range. I think we've
• 1:54
  Speaker 3: talked about this of the Yeah, Raine drove she could.
• 1:57
  Speaker 3: She couldn't say Range, Rover, She's a Range and you're like, yeah,
• 2:01
  Speaker 3: New York girl boss. Anyways. Yeah, this movie is proof
• 2:08
  Speaker 3: positive that Tony Kullett is indeed Australian and has been
• 2:11
  Speaker 3: for some time, at least thirty one years. Yeah.
• 2:15
  Speaker 2: I would say most of her life.
• 2:16
  Speaker 3: Can't speak to before then, but this was like her big,
• 2:18
  Speaker 3: her big Welcome to the Bechdel Cast. My name is
• 2:22
  Speaker 3: Shamie Loftis.
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: My name is Caitlyn Dante. This is our show where
• 2:25
  Speaker 2: we examine movies through an intersexual feminous ones, using the
• 2:28
  Speaker 2: Bechdel test as a jumping off point. We don't really
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: have time for that. We got to talk about Muriel's wedding.
• 2:32
  Speaker 3: This is our fake wedding. This is our fake wedding.
• 2:35
  Speaker 3: This is yeah. We we sort of planned this episode
• 2:38
  Speaker 3: last minute just because we were excited about it. It's
• 2:41
  Speaker 3: a movie that we are I'm sure that we're making
• 2:44
  Speaker 3: a few prospective guests for this because I think so
• 2:46
  Speaker 3: many guests over like I would talk about Muriel's wedding like,
• 2:49
  Speaker 3: people are frothing for this episode. Oh yeah, and we're
• 2:52
  Speaker 3: happy to give it to you. And I am so
• 2:56
  Speaker 3: excited to hear what people's experience with this movie was,
• 2:59
  Speaker 3: because I just like, there's so much to talk about.
• 3:03
  Speaker 3: What a film? I know, what a film I not?
• 3:06
  Speaker 3: Wouldn't you say? So? This film came out in nineteen
• 3:11
  Speaker 3: ninety four. Ever heard of it?
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: It was a lie?
• 3:15
  Speaker 3: It is I believe me too, And it's brave of
• 3:19
  Speaker 3: us to say that. But this was directed by PJ. Hogan,
• 3:23
  Speaker 3: who was like, who did so? He also did my
• 3:25
  Speaker 3: best friend's wedding, which we covered not too long ago
• 3:29
  Speaker 3: on this show, and by that, I mean I was
• 3:31
  Speaker 3: living in my current apartment, so it couldn't have been
• 3:33
  Speaker 3: too long ago.
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: Very true. He also directed that Peter Pan movie that
• 3:40
  Speaker 2: you have discussed with enjoying jerem me.
• 3:44
  Speaker 3: I was like, wow, he's coming up all over the place.
• 3:46
  Speaker 3: I also have been thinking a lot about Jason Isaacs,
• 3:49
  Speaker 3: who I believe plays Captain Hook in that Peter Pan. Yeah,
• 3:52
  Speaker 3: because Jason Isaacs is in the new season of White Lotus,
• 3:57
  Speaker 3: so he's kind of having and I was like, who
• 3:59
  Speaker 3: is that? And then it's like, oh right, Wig Luciu's
• 4:04
  Speaker 3: Malfoy's dad. I was like, what's his name? What's his name? Wig?
• 4:08
  Speaker 3: In my head, Jason Isaac's name.
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: Is Wig long blond Wig.
• 4:12
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I didn't know him before he was Wig.
• 4:16
  Speaker 4: P J.
• 4:17
  Speaker 2: Hogan also directed Confessions of a Schoppaholic, which I have
• 4:20
  Speaker 2: also not seen.
• 4:22
  Speaker 3: I haven't either. I know that people have and listeners
• 4:26
  Speaker 3: correct me from wrong. People have a lot of love
• 4:29
  Speaker 3: for that movie, but it seems more nostalgic than it
• 4:33
  Speaker 3: being good, might imagine. I can't say I read the
• 4:37
  Speaker 3: Confessions of the Chapoholic books when I was a kid,
• 4:40
  Speaker 3: because they had like a lot of sex in them,
• 4:44
  Speaker 3: and I think my mom let me take them out
• 4:47
  Speaker 3: of the library because she thought they were princess Diary's
• 4:50
  Speaker 3: books because the covers look similar, you know, both very
• 4:55
  Speaker 3: feminine titles. And but like I learned how to I
• 4:59
  Speaker 3: value those. But I don't remember a thing that happened,
• 5:01
  Speaker 3: but it's how I remember. It's how I learned about
• 5:03
  Speaker 3: fucking and credit card debt, two things I have since experienced.
• 5:08
  Speaker 2: Congratulations, thank you.
• 5:10
  Speaker 3: Thank you. And I couldn't have done it without my
• 5:13
  Speaker 3: friend Chappaholic.
• 5:15
  Speaker 2: I learned about fucking via Judy.
• 5:18
  Speaker 3: Bloom books, like the adult ones. Yeah, because she wrote Forever, Yes,
• 5:23
  Speaker 3: Forever was that's a very horny book, very horny.
• 5:26
  Speaker 2: And then there's one called like Summer Sisters or something.
• 5:30
  Speaker 2: Remember that heavily references Abba. Relevant to today's discussion.
• 5:35
  Speaker 3: I do have a quite I mean, how on earth
• 5:39
  Speaker 3: did because this was an independent film, how did they
• 5:42
  Speaker 3: afford Abba? I don't It was made for nine million dollars,
• 5:46
  Speaker 3: Like that's how much it costs to play three seconds
• 5:49
  Speaker 3: of dancing Queen. Now I wonder.
• 5:51
  Speaker 2: I mean, I don't know, Mammy are ruined it for everyone?
• 5:55
  Speaker 2: I was gonna write Abba songs are that's too high.
• 5:59
  Speaker 3: Now, that's it's very possible because I think this came
• 6:01
  Speaker 3: out before the musical, so maybe that was just what
• 6:05
  Speaker 3: let me. Yeah, because the musical came out in nineteen
• 6:07
  Speaker 3: ninety nine, so maybe Abba Wright's We're pretty cheap. And
• 6:12
  Speaker 3: I mean it's clear that no one in Australia in
• 6:14
  Speaker 3: nineteen ninety four had a good thing to say about them.
• 6:18
  Speaker 2: Well especially Mary friends.
• 6:20
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I mean you can tell where PJ. Hogan
• 6:23
  Speaker 3: stands because everyone who hates Abba is a bitch. What
• 6:28
  Speaker 3: an interesting movie. So yes, nineteen ninety four PJ. Hogan,
• 6:31
  Speaker 3: written and directed by I believe, his film debut, produced
• 6:36
  Speaker 3: by two women Brave, one of whom is Pj's his wife,
• 6:41
  Speaker 3: Jocelyn Moorehouse and a young actor who is pretty obscure
• 6:47
  Speaker 3: becomes a big stat from this movie. And an's Tony Kollett.
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: That's so true, Jimmie, what is your relationship with this movie?
• 6:58
  Speaker 3: I hadn't seen it and I have no idea why,
• 7:01
  Speaker 3: because it's like I think, maybe it's just like a
• 7:05
  Speaker 3: little Yeah, I guess it's like for the same reason
• 7:08
  Speaker 3: that I mean, I'm not comparing them, but they're like
• 7:10
  Speaker 3: for one thing, I thought this movie was a romantic comedy,
• 7:14
  Speaker 3: like I did not, And there I would say, it
• 7:17
  Speaker 3: is like, while it is coded as it seems like
• 7:21
  Speaker 3: it was marketed as a romantic comedy. I mean, I
• 7:24
  Speaker 3: look at the cover of this movie and I'm like.
• 7:26
  Speaker 2: Oh, that's a rom com probably exactly.
• 7:29
  Speaker 3: Like it's a I was. I was honestly like, is
• 7:31
  Speaker 3: this just like a boring highjinks thing? Like what is this?
• 7:36
  Speaker 3: This movie, I would say is pretty thoroughly devoid of
• 7:40
  Speaker 3: romantic love, but not devoid of love, but devoid of
• 7:44
  Speaker 3: romantic love, yes, but it is funny at many points.
• 7:48
  Speaker 3: I found it very sport but like, yeah, I just
• 7:50
  Speaker 3: hadn't seen it for whatever reason, for the same reason
• 7:53
  Speaker 3: that yeah, I think like Pretty Woman is a movie
• 7:55
  Speaker 3: that you'd think I would have seen by now, but
• 7:57
  Speaker 3: it was just like a little too old where I
• 8:00
  Speaker 3: don't think I grew up with anyone was like, you
• 8:02
  Speaker 3: gotta watch Muriel's wedding. But that's a damn shame, because
• 8:07
  Speaker 3: this movie I really enjoyed it. I've I don't even
• 8:10
  Speaker 3: like it's gonna be challenging to talk about because there's
• 8:14
  Speaker 3: so much that happens in this movie. I will say
• 8:18
  Speaker 3: and Okay, to be clear, I don't mean this as
• 8:20
  Speaker 3: a negative, but a lot of tonal whiplash where you're like,
• 8:26
  Speaker 3: it's this movie, No, it's this movie. It's a noora
• 8:29
  Speaker 3: for a few minutes, and then it's like a family
• 8:33
  Speaker 3: drama for the last ten minutes. It's like it's so
• 8:37
  Speaker 3: many different movies. It's also kind of like, I mean,
• 8:41
  Speaker 3: I would be shocked if people weren't, you know, sort
• 8:45
  Speaker 3: of in the way that fans, do, you know, rooting
• 8:48
  Speaker 3: for Muriel and Rohnda to realize they're in love with
• 8:51
  Speaker 3: each other. I don't know what PJ thinks of that,
• 8:55
  Speaker 3: but that's probably what should happen anyways. Yeah, I just
• 9:00
  Speaker 3: thought it was wild. Yeah, and also that this came
• 9:03
  Speaker 3: out during like a pretty cool moment for Australian independent
• 9:07
  Speaker 3: film because it came out right after the Adventures of Priscilla,
• 9:10
  Speaker 3: Queen of the Desert, So this was like a really
• 9:14
  Speaker 3: interesting time for Straine film. So true, what's your history
• 9:19
  Speaker 3: with this movie? Had you seen it?
• 9:22
  Speaker 2: I had seen the first scene at the wedding at
• 9:26
  Speaker 2: the very beginning. Interesting, and I don't know why I
• 9:30
  Speaker 2: didn't keep watching. I think I like had to go
• 9:32
  Speaker 2: to a comedy show or something. But I watched it,
• 9:36
  Speaker 2: I think when I was still living in Boston with
• 9:39
  Speaker 2: my best friend, who I'm pretty sure is a big
• 9:42
  Speaker 2: fan of this movie, and he's like, I'm gonna put
• 9:44
  Speaker 2: this on, and then I watched the first scene and
• 9:47
  Speaker 2: then I like had to go. It's not that I
• 9:50
  Speaker 2: wasn't interested in continuing watching.
• 9:52
  Speaker 3: It's also such a weird for it's such a weird
• 9:56
  Speaker 3: movie from the moment it begins, like I like, what
• 9:58
  Speaker 3: would you even leave? Being like where is this going
• 10:00
  Speaker 3: to go? Because it's like Urials getting arrested? Right.
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: So I knew enough based on that first scene to
• 10:08
  Speaker 2: know that it was a movie about a woman who
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: we're supposed to kind of think is this you know,
• 10:15
  Speaker 2: like sad sack person, but we also like love her
• 10:19
  Speaker 2: and we're endeared to Muriel. But it's like it doesn't
• 10:24
  Speaker 2: start the way like that first scene. I was like,
• 10:27
  Speaker 2: oh this this probably isn't a standard rom calm based
• 10:30
  Speaker 2: on just like how things are being set up or
• 10:32
  Speaker 2: I couldn't really tell. But I never found out until
• 10:37
  Speaker 2: you know, yesterday what it was about, because I for
• 10:41
  Speaker 2: some reason didn't keep watching it at a later date.
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: But now I know. I've seen it twice now in
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: the past twenty four hours, and there's so much to discuss.
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: There's so much that happens. This is one of the
• 10:53
  Speaker 2: longest recaps I've ever written, just because so much happens
• 10:58
  Speaker 2: and it's hard to like gloss over things.
• 11:01
  Speaker 3: I really liked. One of the many things I liked
• 11:04
  Speaker 3: about this movie is that even though there are like
• 11:08
  Speaker 3: I don't know, I mean, and maybe the recap will
• 11:10
  Speaker 3: prove me wrong because it is just such a vibes movie,
• 11:15
  Speaker 3: but even when characters sort of drop in and out,
• 11:19
  Speaker 3: they usually I thought that the script in the movie
• 11:21
  Speaker 3: was like much better than most movies about making sure
• 11:25
  Speaker 3: characters came back, making sure that people had a moment.
• 11:28
  Speaker 3: Someone who is referenced early on we meet later and
• 11:32
  Speaker 3: we get to see, even if it's like maybe very
• 11:35
  Speaker 3: sort of quick, but like you get to see sort
• 11:39
  Speaker 3: of like the humanity of a lot of stock rom
• 11:43
  Speaker 3: com characters, because it feels like this is a whole
• 11:46
  Speaker 3: movie about the like quote unquote loser best friend that
• 11:52
  Speaker 3: we see in so many romantic comedies, but this movie
• 11:55
  Speaker 3: is about her and about how everyone around her is
• 12:00
  Speaker 3: an asshole, like including her, Like I just yeah.
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: She's got problems, but that's what makes the movie so like,
• 12:07
  Speaker 2: it's so good, authentic and endearing. H Yeah, it's like
• 12:11
  Speaker 2: if a movie focused on like the Judy Greer best
• 12:16
  Speaker 2: friend character of so many rom coms.
• 12:18
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and then yeah, and if she had like huge
• 12:22
  Speaker 3: issues with her family. We'll get to the fare. But yeah,
• 12:27
  Speaker 3: I thought it was really good. I also kept writing
• 12:29
  Speaker 3: down real teeth. I just love people.
• 12:32
  Speaker 2: No, no, uh, what's the fucking guy's name, Jerry Bruckheimer here?
• 12:38
  Speaker 3: No, no, Lauren Michael's teeth, none of it, none of
• 12:41
  Speaker 3: it real real teeth. Also, Okay, the best example I
• 12:47
  Speaker 3: can think of of a bit character that I had
• 12:50
  Speaker 3: totally forgotten about and then she came back was that
• 12:53
  Speaker 3: lady Diane who hates shoplifting.
• 12:57
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, she's just.
• 12:59
  Speaker 3: The same, The same woman gets both Muriel and her
• 13:03
  Speaker 3: mother arrested for a shoplifting. Yeah.
• 13:06
  Speaker 2: She's like, I guess it's sort of like those secret shoppers, Yeah,
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: who just like goes to stores and like spies and
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: narcs on other customers for shoplifting.
• 13:19
  Speaker 3: Yeah. I mean it's like, I get it that you've
• 13:20
  Speaker 3: got to work, but the least you can do is
• 13:22
  Speaker 3: be really bad at that job on purpose. Come on, absolutely?
• 13:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, Well, in any case, shall we take a
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: quick break and then get into the ages long recap
• 13:32
  Speaker 2: that I've written.
• 13:34
  Speaker 3: Let's do it.
• 13:35
  Speaker 2: Okay, we'll be right back, and we're back. We'll place
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: a content warning here for suicide as well as family
• 13:54
  Speaker 2: abuse dynamics. Here's the recap of Muriel's wedding. I also like,
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: I'm like, am I saying this name right? Muriel Muriel?
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: And then later she calls herself Mariel.
• 14:05
  Speaker 3: Like, it's Muriel Muriel. I think that that at least
• 14:08
  Speaker 3: that's the American pronunciation of it, okay, because that was
• 14:12
  Speaker 3: did you ever I know, I know the answer to this.
• 14:14
  Speaker 3: Did you ever watch Courage the Cowardly Dog?
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: Were not at all?
• 14:20
  Speaker 3: Well, there's a character named Muriel on that show. It's
• 14:24
  Speaker 3: spelled the same way, and she says it like that. Okay,
• 14:27
  Speaker 3: it's kind of an old time It's just like an
• 14:29
  Speaker 3: old fashioned name. Yeah.
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: Well, my grandmother was named Miriam, so oh, okay, similar vibes.
• 14:36
  Speaker 3: I knew. I knew a few mary El's. I definitely
• 14:39
  Speaker 3: didn't know any Muriels. Her husband's name was Eustace. This
• 14:44
  Speaker 3: cartoon I'm talking. Okay, so they they've just wear an
• 14:47
  Speaker 3: elderly cartoon characters.
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: Got it, got it all right?
• 14:50
  Speaker 3: I guess we should start.
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: So we are in a place called Porpoise Spit Australia.
• 14:58
  Speaker 2: Ever heard of it? No, because it's a made up.
• 15:02
  Speaker 3: Place, such a funny big name.
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: We meet Muriel has Slop, played by Tony Kullette, at
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: her friend's wedding, not her best friend's wedding, just her
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: regular friend's wedding. She has caught the bouquet Mariel has
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: and she's delighted because she loves weddings. She desperately wants
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: to get married. The whole marriage and wedding thing is
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: like very up her alley. Yeah, but all of her
• 15:34
  Speaker 2: very mean friends such as Tanya, Cheryl, Nicole, there's another
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: one whose name I didn't catch. They're like, eh, Muriel
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: caught the bouquet. There's no way she'll be the next
• 15:48
  Speaker 2: one to get married. She's never even had a boyfriend, Mariel,
• 15:51
  Speaker 2: you should give the bouquet to someone else. They're also
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: commenting on how she didn't even buy a new dress
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: for this wedding, and she's like, yes, I did.
• 16:00
  Speaker 3: And then it's like, well, yes and no, I love
• 16:05
  Speaker 3: I love her. I just like she's impossible not to
• 16:08
  Speaker 3: root for, even when she's being a real piece of shit.
• 16:11
  Speaker 3: I just Tony Kalett is so good and the writing is,
• 16:14
  Speaker 3: I thought, really good.
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 16:16
  Speaker 3: I just this movie weirdly made me like my best
• 16:19
  Speaker 3: friend's wedding more just because I knew it was the same.
• 16:23
  Speaker 3: It's not that I really want to watch it again,
• 16:25
  Speaker 3: but I know that that our whole discussion around that
• 16:27
  Speaker 3: movie was sort of like they were trying to go
• 16:29
  Speaker 3: for something but it didn't quite happen, right, And I
• 16:32
  Speaker 3: feel like they're trying to go something for something different,
• 16:36
  Speaker 3: but they're trying to go for something here that is
• 16:38
  Speaker 3: also weirdly wedding related, right, But the difference is it
• 16:41
  Speaker 3: works in this movie really well. Right.
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: It seems like PJ. Hogan has a vested interest in
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: subverting traditional wedding oriented narratives, and what he ends up
• 16:57
  Speaker 2: doing with My best Friend's wedding I appreciate to some extent, but.
• 17:01
  Speaker 3: It also just feels like it's so Hollywood, and it
• 17:03
  Speaker 3: seems like this movie is presumably completely within his control
• 17:08
  Speaker 3: because it's fairly low budget. It's I don't know. Yeah,
• 17:12
  Speaker 3: I wasn't able to fight a lot of information of
• 17:14
  Speaker 3: like was he But I'm assuming because it's like a
• 17:18
  Speaker 3: husband wife, you know, producing to it, like creatively, there
• 17:21
  Speaker 3: was a lot more freedom to make some like weird
• 17:24
  Speaker 3: choices because this movie makes so many weird choices.
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: It really does. Yeah, And then there's a quick moment
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: where Muriel goes inside and sees the groom whose name
• 17:36
  Speaker 2: is Chuck.
• 17:37
  Speaker 3: You're like and maybe maybe that's the name. Maybe we're
• 17:40
  Speaker 3: not sure.
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: And he's having sex with not the bride but one
• 17:45
  Speaker 2: of the bride's friends, Nicole, and like Muriel sees them
• 17:49
  Speaker 2: like secretly having sex in the laundry room. Then there's
• 17:53
  Speaker 2: this whole thing where that woman, I guess her name
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: is what is it Diane. She's like the secret shopper
• 18:00
  Speaker 2: like store detective lady who accuses Maryel of stealing the
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: dress that she's wearing.
• 18:07
  Speaker 3: I am just like my enemy, my enemy Diane.
• 18:12
  Speaker 2: The cops get involved, but Muriel's dad, Bill Heslop played
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: by Bill Hunter, who was also in Priscilla, Queen of
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: the Desert, and he's in another movie that we watched
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: recently together. We haven't covered it on the podcast yet,
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: but strictly ballroom.
• 18:28
  Speaker 3: I mean he is Australia.
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he is like a city council member or something.
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: He works in government.
• 18:39
  Speaker 3: It seems like he's a city council member who aspires
• 18:42
  Speaker 3: to a bigger political career. Yes. Yeah, he's a climber
• 18:46
  Speaker 3: and he's a piece of shit.
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: He's the worst person. He kind of like butters up
• 18:52
  Speaker 2: the cops to get Muriel out of trouble after stealing
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: this dress. Then we cut to Muriel having dinner with
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: her family. Her dad and her mom, Betty played by
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: Genie Drynen, are there, along with Muriel's like three or
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: four siblings. Her dad is carrying on about his various
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: business dealings. He seems to be like a real estate
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: developer or he like grants permits to people who build
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: these like resorts and stuff like that.
• 19:25
  Speaker 3: I was not exactly sure, yeah, because I was like,
• 19:27
  Speaker 3: whatever he was doing, it's shady as fuck. Yeah, he
• 19:30
  Speaker 3: was doing illegally. But like he I mean, and this
• 19:34
  Speaker 3: is like a through line to the movie as it
• 19:36
  Speaker 3: turns out, but like he's such a liar that I
• 19:39
  Speaker 3: was not even sure what he was supposed to.
• 19:42
  Speaker 2: Have been doing, right, Yeah, I don't really, I don't understand.
• 19:45
  Speaker 3: He's like, I don't take bribes, I mean agreements, And
• 19:49
  Speaker 3: I was like, for what, like it just was I
• 19:52
  Speaker 3: don't know, I don't have that in me. I'm just like,
• 19:55
  Speaker 3: it's too confusing. You're calling things other can't do it.
• 19:58
  Speaker 2: We just know he's sleazy.
• 20:00
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and he's hearing on oh that day draft, like
• 20:03
  Speaker 3: whenever he screams across any room day draft. Yeah. The
• 20:07
  Speaker 3: woman he's gonna leave her for. Yeah, yeah.
• 20:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, So there's that. There's he talks about how he
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: like ran for state government once but lost. That'll kind
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: of come back later. We also learn that Muriel dropped
• 20:20
  Speaker 2: out of high school. She's currently unemployed and has been
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: for a couple of years. Her dad calls Muriel and
• 20:27
  Speaker 2: her siblings useless and dead weight. And then this is
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: when a friend of Bill's comes over to the table.
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: This is a beauty consultant named Deirdre who.
• 20:39
  Speaker 3: Is basically running an MLM. It sounds like like a
• 20:42
  Speaker 3: ninety era mL.
• 20:44
  Speaker 2: It's not Avon, it's not Mary Kay, but it's something
• 20:47
  Speaker 2: like it.
• 20:48
  Speaker 3: It's the Australian fictional variant of this right, but.
• 20:53
  Speaker 2: Deirdre offers Muriel a job. The next night, Muriel goes
• 20:57
  Speaker 2: out to drinks with her friends, her mean girl friends,
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: including the bride from the wedding, Tanya, who's crying because
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: her husband is already having an affair, but not.
• 21:08
  Speaker 3: With the person that Muriel knows with. It's a different affair,
• 21:11
  Speaker 3: which just unfortunately, like pretty funny when you see, like
• 21:17
  Speaker 3: when you see I think it's Nicole, react to like, wait,
• 21:20
  Speaker 3: he's cheating on me to yet another person.
• 21:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And her friends tell Tanya to forget about her
• 21:28
  Speaker 2: husband and go on holiday with them to Hibiscus Island.
• 21:33
  Speaker 3: This is the lot to Sex and the City the movie.
• 21:36
  Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, you're right. Yeah, I didn't even think
• 21:39
  Speaker 2: about that.
• 21:40
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's like if they had a friend that they
• 21:42
  Speaker 3: verbally abused almost to death. Fortunately, among their crimes, that's
• 21:48
  Speaker 3: not one of them. There's not a random fift but
• 21:50
  Speaker 3: it really did feel like the cast of Sex and
• 21:52
  Speaker 3: the City plus Tony Collette, and everyone's screaming at Tony
• 21:55
  Speaker 3: Collett to shut up.
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: Right, because what has happened is that Maryel's friends had
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: planned a vacation without inviting Mauriel, and then they tell
• 22:04
  Speaker 2: her that they don't want Muriel hanging around with them
• 22:07
  Speaker 2: anymore because she doesn't fit in with the image that
• 22:10
  Speaker 2: they've cultivated. She doesn't wear the right clothes or hairstyles.
• 22:13
  Speaker 2: They fat shame her, and they also just simply don't
• 22:17
  Speaker 2: like who she is as a person. Mauriel naturally starts
• 22:21
  Speaker 2: crying and she says.
• 22:23
  Speaker 3: I'm not nothing. It's so we're like, oh, Mariel, yeah,
• 22:29
  Speaker 3: like this this movie is very depressing. Do yeah. However,
• 22:33
  Speaker 3: I think it's so like bravely. I think Tony Kallett
• 22:37
  Speaker 3: is very talented, but it is wild how they managed
• 22:40
  Speaker 3: to balance the tone in the scene that like, your
• 22:42
  Speaker 3: heart is breaking for her, and the scene is still
• 22:45
  Speaker 3: a little bit funny because they're in this like loud
• 22:48
  Speaker 3: tiki bar, and the friends are so tone deaf that
• 22:52
  Speaker 3: when they're like, oh, yeah, I'm Muriel. We didn't invite
• 22:55
  Speaker 3: you on vacation because we hate you and we hate
• 22:57
  Speaker 3: everything about you. And then I think Tanya turns the
• 23:01
  Speaker 3: subject back to herself and Muriel's still crying, and then
• 23:06
  Speaker 3: she's like, could you stop making it about yourself? Muriel?
• 23:09
  Speaker 3: Like It's like it still manages to be funny in
• 23:12
  Speaker 3: this very depressed but in a way that isn't taking
• 23:15
  Speaker 3: swings at our love of Muriel, which is I feel like,
• 23:19
  Speaker 3: really hard to do. And yeah, I mean we'll we'll
• 23:24
  Speaker 3: talk about the the you know that group of gals.
• 23:27
  Speaker 3: But I just it made me because, especially as the
• 23:30
  Speaker 3: movie goes on, it just feels like when you start
• 23:34
  Speaker 3: to realize the sort of unending depths of self hatred
• 23:37
  Speaker 3: that Muriel has for herself, that it's like she's saying,
• 23:40
  Speaker 3: I'm not nothing like almost more to herself than to
• 23:43
  Speaker 3: these women, and it's totally it's really sad. I no, oh,
• 23:49
  Speaker 3: it breaks your heart. And then don't worry. It's gonna
• 23:52
  Speaker 3: work out for her everyone. It's gonna also watch the movie.
• 23:55
  Speaker 3: It's streaming on Paramount Plus. But it's gonna work out
• 23:57
  Speaker 3: for her everybody.
• 23:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but a few really the horrible things will happen first, I.
• 24:02
  Speaker 3: Mean, isn't if that's not life best case scenario.
• 24:08
  Speaker 2: Okay, So her friends have dumped her. The next day,
• 24:11
  Speaker 2: Muriel's mom, Betty, gives Muriel a blank check so that
• 24:16
  Speaker 2: she can buy makeup kids from Deirdre to resell because
• 24:20
  Speaker 2: it is this like MLM scheme. Muriel tells her mom
• 24:25
  Speaker 2: that she's gonna get married and be successful so that
• 24:28
  Speaker 2: her parents can be proud of her.
• 24:30
  Speaker 3: And there's a line that and there's also I again
• 24:34
  Speaker 3: just like a character that I'm used to seeing in
• 24:36
  Speaker 3: passing in rom comms, the like, for lack of a
• 24:40
  Speaker 3: better description, depressed mother, and we end up getting I mean,
• 24:44
  Speaker 3: it doesn't get much happier, but there is a lot
• 24:47
  Speaker 3: of depth that we get with her mother that I
• 24:50
  Speaker 3: wasn't expecting, and I was like pretty pleasantly surprised by
• 24:54
  Speaker 3: just the amount that the plot is considering her. But
• 24:56
  Speaker 3: there's a line she says in that scene that again
• 24:59
  Speaker 3: just broke my heart because it becomes I feel like
• 25:03
  Speaker 3: it's clear at the beginning, but it becomes clearer and
• 25:06
  Speaker 3: clearer as the movie goes on that Muriel's mother's coping
• 25:10
  Speaker 3: technique is denial and like shutting herself off to the
• 25:16
  Speaker 3: parts of reality that are upsetting, even when that hurts
• 25:19
  Speaker 3: through children. Basically, there's a line that she says that
• 25:22
  Speaker 3: just brought my heart where she's like, your dad just
• 25:24
  Speaker 3: wants to be proud of you, and you're just her
• 25:27
  Speaker 3: phrasing it that way, you're just like, ah, I would
• 25:30
  Speaker 3: steal all your money too, totally, which is what Muriel does.
• 25:35
  Speaker 2: Yes, because we cut to Hibiscus Island, which is a
• 25:40
  Speaker 2: very small island off the north west coast of Australia.
• 25:47
  Speaker 2: This is where Muriel's friends are or former friends I
• 25:50
  Speaker 2: should say, are on vacation. They look over and see Muriel,
• 25:56
  Speaker 2: who has clearly used that blank check that her mom
• 25:59
  Speaker 2: gave her to treat herself to a holiday, and the
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: other women are furious that Mauriel is there. That night,
• 26:09
  Speaker 2: she runs into someone she went to high school with,
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: Ronda played by Rachel Griffiths. Maryel makes up a lie
• 26:18
  Speaker 2: and tells Ronda that she's engaged to someone named Tim Simms.
• 26:23
  Speaker 3: They I and you will be shocked how long Tim
• 26:27
  Speaker 3: Simms is canonically real in this friendship.
• 26:30
  Speaker 5: It seems like a month and months. She's like, what
• 26:35
  Speaker 5: do you mean you would get a married Tim Simms?
• 26:38
  Speaker 5: It's somehow even funnier in the accent, like.
• 26:43
  Speaker 3: It's just I love it. It's it's her. I don't know
• 26:47
  Speaker 3: why I'm feeling so referencing today, but her, what is it?
• 26:50
  Speaker 3: Astronaut Mike Dexter, like just a made up boyfriend from
• 26:55
  Speaker 3: thirty Rock. Yes, that's Muriel's Tim Simms.
• 26:58
  Speaker 2: I'm also reminded of I forget which Brady Bunch movie,
• 27:02
  Speaker 2: but it's like the ones that Christine Taylor is in them.
• 27:07
  Speaker 2: They were like big staples of my youth. And Marcia
• 27:11
  Speaker 2: at one point makes up a boyfriend named George Glass.
• 27:16
  Speaker 2: So I love a lot like that.
• 27:19
  Speaker 3: I mean, because it's also and I appreciate that it's
• 27:23
  Speaker 3: made clearer in Muriel's wedding. Then I think it's been
• 27:28
  Speaker 3: in most because I mean, god knows how many movies
• 27:31
  Speaker 3: we've covered that have been like a relationship predicated on
• 27:35
  Speaker 3: a lie. But I am giving this movie a pass
• 27:38
  Speaker 3: because it's a friendship. No, But also it is, like
• 27:42
  Speaker 3: is made so clear to us why Muriel's doing what
• 27:47
  Speaker 3: she's doing. It doesn't excuse her from being dishonest with
• 27:51
  Speaker 3: people who especially people like Ronda, who actually care about her,
• 27:55
  Speaker 3: but it's very clear that this lie is coming from
• 27:58
  Speaker 3: a place of insecurity, which is like most of the
• 28:03
  Speaker 3: times in you know, my life where that lie has
• 28:06
  Speaker 3: been made to me, or like when I was in
• 28:10
  Speaker 3: high school from me is because you're insecure and like
• 28:15
  Speaker 3: you want to seem cool and yeah, I don't know.
• 28:18
  Speaker 3: We just covered Ryleyan on the show, and there's a
• 28:21
  Speaker 3: similar thing there where it's just like, oh, I'm only
• 28:24
  Speaker 3: going to see this person for one night. Let me
• 28:26
  Speaker 3: just let them believe in the best version of myself
• 28:29
  Speaker 3: that doesn't exist yet totally, and then you always end
• 28:32
  Speaker 3: up entering a domestic partnership with this person. But what
• 28:36
  Speaker 3: can you do? Right? It is?
• 28:38
  Speaker 2: It is very different from the standard like rom com.
• 28:43
  Speaker 2: Oh it's a it's a bet, or it's some kind
• 28:46
  Speaker 2: of goofy lie to trick someone into thinking I'm not
• 28:50
  Speaker 2: writing an article about them or whatever it is. Right,
• 28:53
  Speaker 2: the context here is totally different, and it's rooted in
• 28:56
  Speaker 2: something far more real, zembling real life, because I've met
• 29:03
  Speaker 2: so many people like Muriel who I like, of course,
• 29:06
  Speaker 2: either don't know they're lying or I can tell they're
• 29:09
  Speaker 2: lying about something, but I understand why they're doing it,
• 29:12
  Speaker 2: because yeah, they're they're insecure, They're they're doing the like
• 29:18
  Speaker 2: fake it till you make it thing, and you know.
• 29:20
  Speaker 3: It's the classic like I have a boyfriend who lives
• 29:23
  Speaker 3: in Canada, like yeah, and some people carry that energy
• 29:28
  Speaker 3: far into their adulthood and Muriel is I mean she's not,
• 29:32
  Speaker 3: I mean not far into her adulthood. Tony Kollette I
• 29:35
  Speaker 3: think is like twenty two in this movie. Yeah, but
• 29:38
  Speaker 3: you know she and also as as it becomes more
• 29:42
  Speaker 3: obvious and like, I don't know if it hit for
• 29:45
  Speaker 3: you right away and I'm just have a brain full
• 29:47
  Speaker 3: of rocks. But it's also like Muriel has seen her
• 29:52
  Speaker 3: parents use lying in denial as coping strategies her whole life,
• 29:57
  Speaker 3: and so it makes a lot of sense that that
• 30:00
  Speaker 3: would be her go to for sure.
• 30:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, So this is the lie that maryel tells
• 30:06
  Speaker 2: Ronda about her fiance Tim Sims. Sims and the two
• 30:12
  Speaker 2: of them get to talking about Tanya and Tanya's friends
• 30:17
  Speaker 2: and how they were so cruel to Ronda in high school,
• 30:20
  Speaker 2: and Mariel is like, well, surprise, they're right over there.
• 30:25
  Speaker 2: So Ronda approaches them and Tanya is like, oh, why
• 30:28
  Speaker 2: don't you have a drink with us? And Ronda is
• 30:31
  Speaker 2: basically like no, thanks, you killy had beach.
• 30:35
  Speaker 3: By the way, love, Like this speed with which Ronda
• 30:41
  Speaker 3: wins you over is like unreal, It's so great.
• 30:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and she's like, by the way, your friend Nicole
• 30:50
  Speaker 2: is fucking your husband. And also I'm gonna go hang
• 30:54
  Speaker 2: out with my new friend Maryel By like mic drop.
• 30:57
  Speaker 3: Cut to and also, if you haven't seen the movie,
• 31:02
  Speaker 3: important that you know that Muriel's obsessed with Abba. Cut
• 31:05
  Speaker 3: to them doing an amazing karaoke scene in Waterloo, and
• 31:10
  Speaker 3: then you're like, oh, this movie is weird, weird like this,
• 31:15
  Speaker 3: it's it's great. Also, my best friend's wedding features an
• 31:19
  Speaker 3: extended karaoke scene. Another PJ.
• 31:22
  Speaker 2: Hogan, Wait, is it the one where they're at the
• 31:25
  Speaker 2: like rehearsal dinner or some like wedding.
• 31:28
  Speaker 3: Over Julia am I thinking they're wrong movie Ulis can't
• 31:32
  Speaker 3: sing and then they follow.
• 31:34
  Speaker 2: No, Cameron Diaz can't sing. Oh yes, yes, at karaoke.
• 31:38
  Speaker 2: But then there's another scene where like a whole group
• 31:40
  Speaker 2: of people are singing at some dinner. Yeah, we're talking
• 31:42
  Speaker 2: about twoffer different scenes. But now I remember the karaoke scene.
• 31:45
  Speaker 4: P J.
• 31:46
  Speaker 3: Hogan loves a weird karaoke slash bar fight scene.
• 31:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah, because what happens is like Rhnda and Muriel are
• 31:54
  Speaker 2: like bringing down the house with their Waterloo performance.
• 31:58
  Speaker 3: The outfits. It's just awesome. Yeah.
• 32:01
  Speaker 2: Meanwhile, Tanya and her friends are there and they're having
• 32:04
  Speaker 2: a horrible time, and then Tanya and Nicole start beating
• 32:09
  Speaker 2: each other up. Cut to Maryel's family. They're reading a
• 32:14
  Speaker 2: postcard from Muriel saying that she's funding this expensive vacation
• 32:18
  Speaker 2: with all the cosmetics she's selling. Diadra hears about this
• 32:22
  Speaker 2: and knows that Muriel's lying. Also, there's speculation that Muriel's
• 32:27
  Speaker 2: dad and Deirdre are having an affair. I can't remember
• 32:31
  Speaker 2: if I've made that clear yet or not.
• 32:32
  Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, And it becomes increasingly obvious as time goes on,
• 32:37
  Speaker 3: for sure, because she just always happens to be in
• 32:40
  Speaker 3: the same restaurant. I love that that's there. It seems
• 32:43
  Speaker 3: like truly their system is I will go to the
• 32:46
  Speaker 3: nearest Chinese restaurant, and then you also go there, because
• 32:50
  Speaker 3: we see that happen in multiple cities, Like that's clearly
• 32:55
  Speaker 3: just their thing that they.
• 32:56
  Speaker 2: Do something and he's always like, oh, what a cool
• 33:01
  Speaker 2: and she's like hi, yeah yeah. So back to Muriel.
• 33:05
  Speaker 2: She's still on vacation, hanging out with Ronda, who reassures
• 33:10
  Speaker 2: Marriel that she is somebody. She's successful in Timstons wants
• 33:15
  Speaker 2: to marry her. Shortly after this, Muriel returns home very
• 33:20
  Speaker 2: briefly because it seems like her family is missing. Twelve
• 33:24
  Speaker 2: thousand dollars and they rightfully suspect Muriel of stealing it.
• 33:27
  Speaker 2: So she turns right back around and heads to Sydney,
• 33:31
  Speaker 2: where Ronda lives. She moves in with her.
• 33:34
  Speaker 3: It's a very sad scene, but it's also very funny
• 33:37
  Speaker 3: that Muriel walks in the house with these like pretty
• 33:42
  Speaker 3: gnarly tan lines too. She has like the outline of
• 33:45
  Speaker 3: sunglasses on her face, which I thought was a funny touch.
• 33:48
  Speaker 3: And then her poor mother is like always wanting to
• 33:52
  Speaker 3: give her the benefit of the doubt, and it's like,
• 33:54
  Speaker 3: you didn't do it right. You wouldn't do that. You're awesome,
• 33:58
  Speaker 3: and Muriel's like, yeah, gotta go and running back. I mean,
• 34:04
  Speaker 3: I mean, yeah, I was laughing.
• 34:06
  Speaker 2: It's funny.
• 34:07
  Speaker 3: You sun block. Oh my god. People in the nineties
• 34:10
  Speaker 3: were so stressful. Please use sunblock for the love of god.
• 34:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, okay. So Muriel moves to Sydney. She's still lying
• 34:20
  Speaker 2: to Ronda about having been engaged, although now she's saying
• 34:25
  Speaker 2: that her ex fiance, Tim Sims is a cop, and
• 34:29
  Speaker 2: so she's changing her name to Mariel with an A
• 34:34
  Speaker 2: to hide from him.
• 34:35
  Speaker 3: And I like that. I mean, it's definitely like naive
• 34:38
  Speaker 3: of Ronda, But I also just like appreciate how game
• 34:42
  Speaker 3: she is for like whatever Muriel's up to where she
• 34:46
  Speaker 3: says and she means it. She's like, oh, you know
• 34:50
  Speaker 3: when she meets him, she's like, oh, are you are
• 34:52
  Speaker 3: you trying to like have one last fling before you
• 34:54
  Speaker 3: get married to Tim Simms. I won't tell anybody. Yeah,
• 34:57
  Speaker 3: And then and then she's like, oh, are you changing
• 35:01
  Speaker 3: your name? Because Tim Sims is a homicidal X cop.
• 35:04
  Speaker 3: I won't tell anybody. And it's like she is. She's
• 35:09
  Speaker 3: a true friend.
• 35:10
  Speaker 2: She's loyal.
• 35:11
  Speaker 3: She's loyal even when it's like, come on, read back
• 35:15
  Speaker 3: what you just said. But they're young.
• 35:18
  Speaker 2: They're young, yeah, early twenties. Yeah, yeah, Okay. So Maryel
• 35:23
  Speaker 2: now works at a video rental store and one night
• 35:26
  Speaker 2: she goes out to a dance club with a customer
• 35:30
  Speaker 2: named Bryce, who had like come into the video store
• 35:33
  Speaker 2: and asked her out on a date. She brings him
• 35:37
  Speaker 2: back home, where Ronda is having allowed threesome in the
• 35:41
  Speaker 2: other room. Maryel and Bryce start making out. She's shrieking
• 35:47
  Speaker 2: with laughter, and then there's all this okay high jinks.
• 35:50
  Speaker 3: Well, okay, we have to slow this scene down because
• 35:53
  Speaker 3: this scene I was like, I had to watch it
• 35:55
  Speaker 3: like three times. It so much happens. Some of it
• 35:59
  Speaker 3: is very high, some of it is very serious. The
• 36:02
  Speaker 3: giggly stuff I was really confused about because I was
• 36:05
  Speaker 3: sort of wondering because what happens right before they start
• 36:07
  Speaker 3: making out and like we'll get into this where you know,
• 36:11
  Speaker 3: it is very nineties and ascribing to like no consent discussions,
• 36:15
  Speaker 3: nothing like that. Right like they're vibing, but he comes
• 36:20
  Speaker 3: on pretty strong. I thought, sure, And she's laughing and
• 36:23
  Speaker 3: it's unclear. I sort of was like, is it nervous
• 36:26
  Speaker 3: or excited laughter? Because what happens right before they start
• 36:29
  Speaker 3: making out is she sees her dad on tv ye
• 36:33
  Speaker 3: say like Muriel, come home. We don't care about the money,
• 36:36
  Speaker 3: And so I was like, is she having a panic attack?
• 36:39
  Speaker 3: Like or is this but and it's like it's genuinely
• 36:43
  Speaker 3: and it's you know whatever. It doesn't need to be
• 36:44
  Speaker 3: directly clear to me, but I was like, I just
• 36:47
  Speaker 3: felt to me, I was like reading that as like
• 36:49
  Speaker 3: she was just like so overwhelmed by so many things
• 36:52
  Speaker 3: happening at once, where I was like, this is an
• 36:55
  Speaker 3: either her first or one of her first sexual experiences
• 36:59
  Speaker 3: and she's like excited about it but also nervous, and
• 37:02
  Speaker 3: also her dad is on TV looking for her, and
• 37:05
  Speaker 3: also there's a three way going on five feet away,
• 37:08
  Speaker 3: and it's just like it seems like she just like
• 37:10
  Speaker 3: sort of her brain breaks a little bit and she's
• 37:13
  Speaker 3: like yeah, right, and then hijinks and then cancer and
• 37:17
  Speaker 3: you're like.
• 37:18
  Speaker 2: All it's a spin of like two minutes. It's so
• 37:21
  Speaker 2: much jam packed into one small moment.
• 37:24
  Speaker 3: While Yeah, I was.
• 37:25
  Speaker 2: Thinking about, like, the context we learned earlier in the
• 37:27
  Speaker 2: beginning of the movie is that Maryel's never had a boyfriend.
• 37:30
  Speaker 2: That doesn't mean she's never had any sexual experiences, but
• 37:33
  Speaker 2: it also might mean that she hasn't.
• 37:36
  Speaker 3: We don't know.
• 37:37
  Speaker 2: We don't know for sure.
• 37:38
  Speaker 3: We're not sure. It does seem like Muriel has a
• 37:40
  Speaker 3: hyperfixation on monogamy that would suggest that maybe she hasn't
• 37:45
  Speaker 3: had it, but we again, we just don't know.
• 37:47
  Speaker 2: Canonically hard to say yeah. But then yeah, there's this
• 37:53
  Speaker 2: like high jinxy kind of slapstick moment where Bryce, intending
• 37:58
  Speaker 2: to like unzip her pants, he accidentally unzips the bean
• 38:02
  Speaker 2: bag chair and all of the beans spill out. Then
• 38:06
  Speaker 2: the two dudes who Ronda is fucking come out naked
• 38:10
  Speaker 2: with their dicks out, and every time, like and why
• 38:14
  Speaker 2: Maryel sees them, she shrieks some more. But like in
• 38:17
  Speaker 2: a again, we're just like how.
• 38:20
  Speaker 3: It just seems like she it's like she she's very
• 38:24
  Speaker 3: hard to read this scene. I was like, how are
• 38:27
  Speaker 3: you feeling? I don't know. Yeah, And also I'm like
• 38:32
  Speaker 3: it happened so suddenly that I'm like, why did they attack?
• 38:37
  Speaker 2: I'm guessing they heard her shrieking shrieking, and then they're like,
• 38:42
  Speaker 2: what are you doing to her? So the two other
• 38:44
  Speaker 2: guys like pin Bryce down, thinking that maybe he was
• 38:50
  Speaker 2: assaulting Muriel, and then Ronda comes out and then suddenly
• 38:55
  Speaker 2: Ronda's like, I can't feel my legs.
• 38:59
  Speaker 3: Cut to so the er, that scene is exactly as
• 39:02
  Speaker 3: chaotic as you just described, Like it is an experience
• 39:06
  Speaker 3: watching that scene.
• 39:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a lot. And then in the er in
• 39:10
  Speaker 2: the hospital, it turns out that Ronda has a cancerous
• 39:15
  Speaker 2: tumor that is pressing on her spine. That's why she
• 39:17
  Speaker 2: couldn't feel her legs and she needs to have surgery
• 39:21
  Speaker 2: immediately to have the tumor removed.
• 39:24
  Speaker 3: Not to over cancer this discussion so much, but I
• 39:27
  Speaker 3: did it did make me. I was curious, like how
• 39:30
  Speaker 3: intentionally this was done. And apologies if you're an oncologist
• 39:35
  Speaker 3: or a lover of oncologists, But the scene where she
• 39:40
  Speaker 3: finds out that she has cancer and the oncologist sort
• 39:44
  Speaker 3: of just drops that word into the conversation and she's like, wait,
• 39:48
  Speaker 3: I have cancer and he's like, yeah, yeah, duh. Like
• 39:53
  Speaker 3: that has been my experience with most oncologists, like when
• 39:56
  Speaker 3: I was taking care of my dad over a course
• 39:58
  Speaker 3: of years, where there's sometimes this and I get it,
• 40:03
  Speaker 3: we're dumb, but like you have to say, like, okay,
• 40:07
  Speaker 3: first things first, you have cancer, not just like okay,
• 40:11
  Speaker 3: so here's what we have to do. We have to
• 40:12
  Speaker 3: do on this timeline. Uh yeah, idiot, it's obviously cancer.
• 40:16
  Speaker 3: I'm like, it's not best side manner. Where where is it? Anyways?
• 40:21
  Speaker 3: I just felt weirdly validated by that experience and the
• 40:25
  Speaker 3: doctor be like, oh, well, yeah, it's obviously cancer. Like
• 40:28
  Speaker 3: you know, you have to say that, you have to
• 40:30
  Speaker 3: say that.
• 40:31
  Speaker 2: You have to use your words. I mean, I've talked
• 40:34
  Speaker 2: at length on various podcasts and episodes of this show
• 40:39
  Speaker 2: about my kind of distrust of the American healthcare system.
• 40:43
  Speaker 2: But yeah, I found that a lot of doctors are
• 40:46
  Speaker 2: not very good at communication, so no, and then there
• 40:49
  Speaker 2: they should work on that.
• 40:50
  Speaker 3: Yeah, anyways, there it is a very uh again, just
• 40:56
  Speaker 3: like one of the many kind of abrupt like pace
• 41:00
  Speaker 3: changes in the movie where it goes from like, oh,
• 41:05
  Speaker 3: like Muriel's about to have a fun hookup with her
• 41:08
  Speaker 3: crush to her best friend has cancer. And I just
• 41:15
  Speaker 3: again was like so impressed that even though the like
• 41:20
  Speaker 3: whatever gradient of things that happen is so all over
• 41:23
  Speaker 3: the place, it never stops being a comedy. Right, but
• 41:27
  Speaker 3: I'm sort of confused as to how that was even possible.
• 41:30
  Speaker 3: But yeah, it's like, I mean, Rohnda has to have
• 41:33
  Speaker 3: this surgery and and it seems that, you know, Muriel
• 41:38
  Speaker 3: is her main source of support.
• 41:41
  Speaker 2: Mm hmm. Yeah, this will become clear in a few
• 41:46
  Speaker 2: moments before that, Muriel calls home and finds out that
• 41:50
  Speaker 2: her dad has left her mom and is currently in
• 41:54
  Speaker 2: Sydney as well, facing an inquiry for accepting bra vibes
• 42:00
  Speaker 2: after Muriel stole their money. But you also get the
• 42:04
  Speaker 2: impression that he's been accepting bribes his entire career, so
• 42:08
  Speaker 2: it's like not a new.
• 42:09
  Speaker 3: Thing, and that right, and that it's just like this,
• 42:12
  Speaker 3: it happens to be the thing that people caught up on.
• 42:15
  Speaker 3: And also, I mean, it becomes clearer as the movie
• 42:17
  Speaker 3: goes on that her dad is always doing things that
• 42:21
  Speaker 3: seem altruistic but are without fail to improve his own position,
• 42:28
  Speaker 3: which you know, because at first I was kind of
• 42:30
  Speaker 3: surprised when he goes on TV and he's like, Muriel,
• 42:32
  Speaker 3: we love you, we're you know, we don't care about
• 42:35
  Speaker 3: the money. But then it's like, oh, he was doing
• 42:37
  Speaker 3: that to make him more sympathetic in this big court
• 42:40
  Speaker 3: case he was about to go through. He's like, he
• 42:43
  Speaker 3: doesn't mean a word that he says, which we learn
• 42:45
  Speaker 3: in even more kind of gruesome detail as the movie
• 42:48
  Speaker 3: goes on.
• 42:49
  Speaker 2: For sure. So then, and this is maybe to help
• 42:54
  Speaker 2: Muriel cope with this news of her friend being diagnosed
• 42:59
  Speaker 2: with CAM. But she goes into a wedding dress shop
• 43:03
  Speaker 2: to try on a gown. She tells the shopkeepers that
• 43:08
  Speaker 2: she's marrying her fiance Bill in September.
• 43:12
  Speaker 3: Which is also like, ugh, that's her dad's name, Muriel,
• 43:16
  Speaker 3: don't say.
• 43:17
  Speaker 2: That, yeah, stick with Tim Sims. She also said her
• 43:21
  Speaker 2: story straight lady. She also says that her mom can't
• 43:25
  Speaker 2: come because she's in the hospital with a tumor on
• 43:29
  Speaker 2: her spine aka what's going on with Rohnda. And by
• 43:32
  Speaker 2: now we realize that Muriel is a serial liar. I mean, yeah,
• 43:38
  Speaker 2: that was pretty clear from the jump, but it's like
• 43:41
  Speaker 2: now happened several times.
• 43:44
  Speaker 3: But I feel like that's the first example where it's
• 43:47
  Speaker 3: clear that like lying is her coping mechanism because it's
• 43:51
  Speaker 3: like she can't talk about she finds it really difficult
• 43:54
  Speaker 3: to talk about what is actually bothering her, so she
• 43:56
  Speaker 3: makes up weird lies that reference what is bothering right.
• 44:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, she's pulling from source material aka other people in
• 44:04
  Speaker 2: her life and then making up stories to make herself
• 44:09
  Speaker 2: seem sympathetic. And it works. Yeah, because the shopkeeper out
• 44:13
  Speaker 2: of section, they take photos of her in the dress,
• 44:17
  Speaker 2: which Mariel puts in a wedding photo album, which we'll
• 44:22
  Speaker 2: come back in a moment. Meanwhile, Ronda is in physical therapy.
• 44:27
  Speaker 2: She's learning how to walk again. She's incredibly frustrated because
• 44:31
  Speaker 2: she's unable to do much for herself. Mariel has to
• 44:36
  Speaker 2: take care of her. But Mariiel's like, I don't mind,
• 44:40
  Speaker 2: this is the best my life has ever been. It's
• 44:42
  Speaker 2: as good as an Abba song.
• 44:45
  Speaker 3: That made me tear up. That was really beautiful.
• 44:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah. But then and then Ronda makes Muriel promise that
• 44:54
  Speaker 2: they'll never go back to their hometown of Porpoise Spit
• 44:58
  Speaker 2: and she's like.
• 44:59
  Speaker 3: Yeah, which I will say is for even though Ronda
• 45:03
  Speaker 3: is the best character in the movie, I think, and
• 45:08
  Speaker 3: she's the realist. I wonder if it's like if it's
• 45:11
  Speaker 3: a youth thing or but like, I don't know that
• 45:14
  Speaker 3: she necessarily realized what a big ask that is, and
• 45:18
  Speaker 3: that it was sort of like said and not to
• 45:20
  Speaker 3: say that Muriel wouldn't have done it or I mean,
• 45:23
  Speaker 3: because it's like caretaking and like assisting is like one
• 45:27
  Speaker 3: of the most important jobs that exists. But it was
• 45:30
  Speaker 3: just I felt a little bit for Muriel in that
• 45:32
  Speaker 3: moment where it's like, well, what do you say in
• 45:35
  Speaker 3: that situation? Even if you have reservations, you don't want
• 45:38
  Speaker 3: to seem like you're turning your back on your friend, right,
• 45:41
  Speaker 3: So it was I felt for both of them in
• 45:44
  Speaker 3: that situation, because of course it's like Ronda needs a
• 45:48
  Speaker 3: lifeline badly because she was They literally bonded over hating
• 45:52
  Speaker 3: where they came from right, But then in the same way,
• 45:56
  Speaker 3: it's like, that's a lot of pressure, particularly on a
• 45:59
  Speaker 3: new friendship, and so I just really felt for both
• 46:02
  Speaker 3: of them.
• 46:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah, they've only known each other for a few months.
• 46:06
  Speaker 3: Yeah, maybe, like and so it's like that is a
• 46:09
  Speaker 3: really steep escalation, you know, but that's I mean, god,
• 46:15
  Speaker 3: I again, it's just like obviously very specific circumstances, but like, oh,
• 46:21
  Speaker 3: two friends in their early twenties and a weirdly codependent friendship.
• 46:27
  Speaker 3: Many such cases, many such cases, indeed.
• 46:31
  Speaker 2: Yes, So one day Ronda sees this wedding photo album
• 46:38
  Speaker 2: that Maryel has been compiling, and apparently she's been filling
• 46:42
  Speaker 2: it with dozens of photos of her in different wedding
• 46:46
  Speaker 2: dresses at various bridal shops across Sydney. And then Ronda
• 46:51
  Speaker 2: catches her red handed, like in the middle of trying
• 46:55
  Speaker 2: on a dress and assumes that Maryel has gotten back
• 46:58
  Speaker 2: together with Tim's Sims. And this is the moment where
• 47:02
  Speaker 2: Maryel finally admits that there is no Tim Simms. She
• 47:07
  Speaker 2: made him up, and she's doing that because she just
• 47:12
  Speaker 2: desperately wants to get married, because if she gets married,
• 47:15
  Speaker 2: she'll be someone else. Because Maryel hates herself.
• 47:20
  Speaker 3: And that is the moment in the movie. Room'm like, oh,
• 47:22
  Speaker 3: this movie is so good. It's like directly confronting how
• 47:29
  Speaker 3: we're conditioned to see marriage to some extent where a
• 47:33
  Speaker 3: lot of people are conditioned to see marriage is as
• 47:37
  Speaker 3: like if you can do this, everything will be okay.
• 47:40
  Speaker 3: When look at literally any marriage, it's so demonstrably untrue
• 47:45
  Speaker 3: and like and the fact that like Ronda is so
• 47:48
  Speaker 3: awesome in that scene, and we'll talk about like the
• 47:50
  Speaker 3: conversations around ableism in this movie too, but like the
• 47:54
  Speaker 3: fact that she, you know, is like get out of
• 47:58
  Speaker 3: it because she's so afraid for Muriel and thinks that
• 48:02
  Speaker 3: Muriel's re entering this abusive relationship right, And it's just
• 48:05
  Speaker 3: like it's so emotionally charged and there's too much going
• 48:09
  Speaker 3: on in their respective lives for them to be able
• 48:11
  Speaker 3: to show up for each other in the way that
• 48:12
  Speaker 3: they need to. And it's just like a ough it was.
• 48:16
  Speaker 3: That scene is so heartbreaking and then also still somehow
• 48:20
  Speaker 3: funny at the end because Ronda storms out and it's
• 48:26
  Speaker 3: just like the two employees at the Bridle shop and
• 48:29
  Speaker 3: a sobbing Tony Kollett and they're like hmmm, so what
• 48:33
  Speaker 3: do we do?
• 48:34
  Speaker 2: So we need that dress back now?
• 48:36
  Speaker 3: Right, It's still like always there manages to be a
• 48:40
  Speaker 3: comedic button on these like devastating scenes.
• 48:43
  Speaker 2: It's wilds yeah for sure. Okay, So sometime later, Muriel
• 48:50
  Speaker 2: meets up with her dad in Sydney. He berates her
• 48:54
  Speaker 2: for stealing his money. Deirdre just happens to come into
• 48:58
  Speaker 2: the restaurant, Oh my God, and she and Bill confirm
• 49:03
  Speaker 2: that they're in love and that Bill has effectively left
• 49:07
  Speaker 2: Muriel's mom Betty for Deirdre. Bill also tells Muriel that
• 49:12
  Speaker 2: she has to move back in with her mom and
• 49:15
  Speaker 2: she has like a few weeks to do it to
• 49:17
  Speaker 2: avoid having to move back to Porpoise spit. Muriel goes
• 49:22
  Speaker 2: through personal ads looking for men who are looking for
• 49:27
  Speaker 2: a his wife.
• 49:29
  Speaker 3: And this is like the maybe third or fourth time
• 49:32
  Speaker 3: that the.
• 49:33
  Speaker 4: Movie just likes a big name, totally different movie where
• 49:38
  Speaker 4: it's like that this is the beginning of a this
• 49:41
  Speaker 4: is the first act of a different movie.
• 49:43
  Speaker 3: If we're like well into the second act of this movie.
• 49:47
  Speaker 1: Now.
• 49:48
  Speaker 3: I just thought it was like it was pretty pretty
• 49:50
  Speaker 3: awesome because that premise feels weirdly like old school rom
• 49:54
  Speaker 3: comie of like I need to do this and so
• 50:00
  Speaker 3: I guess I have to get married. Like that's the
• 50:02
  Speaker 3: oldest rom com trope in the book.
• 50:05
  Speaker 2: So I thought when I was watching this yesterday, yeah,
• 50:10
  Speaker 2: for the first time, aside from that first scene I
• 50:12
  Speaker 2: had already watched years and years and years ago. I
• 50:15
  Speaker 2: thought that the premise of the movie was going to
• 50:17
  Speaker 2: be that after she catches the bouquet at this wedding
• 50:21
  Speaker 2: and all her friends are like, you'll never be the
• 50:24
  Speaker 2: next one to get married, that Maryel will like go
• 50:27
  Speaker 2: on a journey like just be hell bent on getting
• 50:32
  Speaker 2: married to prove those friends wrong. And that is kind
• 50:35
  Speaker 2: of what happens. But that's not even necessarily her specific goal,
• 50:40
  Speaker 2: like other a lot of other things happen to like
• 50:42
  Speaker 2: get her on this path of this marriage that she
• 50:46
  Speaker 2: eventually has, which we're about to get to.
• 50:48
  Speaker 3: But like, well, it's like because it's like the real
• 50:50
  Speaker 3: inciting incident of this movie is meeting Ronda, Like that's
• 50:55
  Speaker 3: what really changes things. It feels like I don't know,
• 50:58
  Speaker 3: I feel like it's clear by the end that it's like,
• 51:00
  Speaker 3: you know, platonic or not, Like Ronda is the great
• 51:03
  Speaker 3: love of Muriel's life. And vice versa, even though you
• 51:08
  Speaker 3: know they both make their mistakes, Muriel more than Ronda.
• 51:14
  Speaker 3: But yeah, yeah, that scene, it's so I don't even
• 51:19
  Speaker 3: know what I thought this movie. I thought it was
• 51:20
  Speaker 3: literally just like my wedding is next week, aha, because
• 51:26
  Speaker 3: that's so many movies like they're like, I guess it's
• 51:29
  Speaker 3: one of those. But it's just so twisty turney this
• 51:35
  Speaker 3: is to me when it turns into it accidentally turns
• 51:38
  Speaker 3: into like sort of an aura for like ten minutes
• 51:42
  Speaker 3: where it's like, there's this rich guy from a foreign
• 51:47
  Speaker 3: country that you know nothing about. You're gonna marry him,
• 51:53
  Speaker 3: but it's not serious, and you're like, I know this.
• 51:55
  Speaker 2: One right, because here's what happens. So she finds a
• 52:00
  Speaker 2: personal ad that seems promising, so she goes to respond
• 52:05
  Speaker 2: to it. Meanwhile, Ronda reveals that her cancer has come
• 52:08
  Speaker 2: back and that she'll never walk again, and Ronda's mom
• 52:11
  Speaker 2: is insisting that she does move back home to Porpoise Spit.
• 52:16
  Speaker 2: Muriel's too wrapped up in this other thing to really
• 52:21
  Speaker 2: bother with what Ronda's dealing with. That's because Muriel.
• 52:24
  Speaker 3: My read of that was like it almost felt like
• 52:28
  Speaker 3: Muriel was like mirroring her mom a little bit in
• 52:31
  Speaker 3: that sequence where the situation going on around her was
• 52:35
  Speaker 3: too overwhelming and so she kind of like detaches from
• 52:39
  Speaker 3: it and does something else because originally, I guess I
• 52:43
  Speaker 3: misinterpreted it the first time I watched this sequence where
• 52:45
  Speaker 3: I thought that like Muriel had all of it, like
• 52:48
  Speaker 3: she wants to, say, in Sydney because she doesn't want
• 52:51
  Speaker 3: to be in this toxic family dynamic, but she also
• 52:55
  Speaker 3: wants to be in Sydney because she loves Rhonda and
• 52:58
  Speaker 3: wants to be there to support her, And so I
• 53:01
  Speaker 3: sort of thought part of the reason she was seeking
• 53:03
  Speaker 3: out this marriage arrangement was so that she could continue
• 53:06
  Speaker 3: to be around Ronda. But then Ronda is you know,
• 53:09
  Speaker 3: when Ronda's mom sort of puts her foot down and
• 53:12
  Speaker 3: is like, no, you're coming home, it seems like Muriel
• 53:17
  Speaker 3: just freaks out and kind of detaches instead of fighting
• 53:21
  Speaker 3: for Ronda in that moment, which is like very relatable
• 53:24
  Speaker 3: for someone in their early twenties and over their head,
• 53:27
  Speaker 3: but it's so heartbreaking where it's like Ronda needed someone
• 53:31
  Speaker 3: so badly to show up for her.
• 53:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and Muriel is at this juncture in her life
• 53:38
  Speaker 2: not the person to be able to do it.
• 53:41
  Speaker 3: No, she like can't manage her own shit.
• 53:44
  Speaker 2: No, not at all. But she does manage to meet
• 53:48
  Speaker 2: this man who is looking for his wife. His name
• 53:53
  Speaker 2: is David van Arkle and he's a swimmer who's trying
• 53:56
  Speaker 2: to compete in the Olympics for Australia because he's from
• 54:01
  Speaker 2: South Africa and there's a long history of South Africa
• 54:04
  Speaker 2: being banned from the Olympics for being an apartheid state. Like,
• 54:08
  Speaker 2: so he needs to marry an Australian woman to get
• 54:11
  Speaker 2: like a green card or whatever the equivalent is, so
• 54:14
  Speaker 2: that he can swim for Australia, and his family is
• 54:18
  Speaker 2: willing to pay Muriel ten thousand dollars to marry this guy.
• 54:23
  Speaker 3: Which is just like a totally different movie. It's like
• 54:27
  Speaker 3: it's just so wild how what it intends, Like tonal
• 54:33
  Speaker 3: Shift that is again.
• 54:37
  Speaker 2: And so she meets this guy David, and Muriel's swooning
• 54:40
  Speaker 2: over him because he's hot, handsome, and he's got a
• 54:43
  Speaker 2: good physique and stuff.
• 54:44
  Speaker 3: But to the point where it's like he doesn't she doesn't,
• 54:47
  Speaker 3: or maybe she's so accustomed to being negged in front
• 54:49
  Speaker 3: of her very eyes, because that's how her father, acts.
• 54:52
  Speaker 2: And her friend, her former friends and her friends.
• 54:55
  Speaker 3: Just like she's just so used to being negged to
• 54:58
  Speaker 3: her face that David is like yucky, I don't like
• 55:03
  Speaker 3: her to his like weird coach, and Muriel's like.
• 55:07
  Speaker 2: Whatever, I'm like no, right. She seems thrilled at the
• 55:12
  Speaker 2: idea of marrying him. He seems repulsed by her, but
• 55:16
  Speaker 2: she breezes past that and.
• 55:19
  Speaker 3: He'll give her, you know, ten thousand dollars that will
• 55:22
  Speaker 3: allow her to extract herself from this financial obligation to
• 55:25
  Speaker 3: her family.
• 55:25
  Speaker 2: So yeah, so whin when so a wedding gets arranged
• 55:29
  Speaker 2: between Muriel and David and there's a lot of media
• 55:33
  Speaker 2: attention around it since David is this like star athlete,
• 55:38
  Speaker 2: so she like gets in the tabloids and stuff like that.
• 55:42
  Speaker 2: Cut to the wedding, Ronda is reluctantly there with her mother, Tanya,
• 55:48
  Speaker 2: Cheryl and those women are there is Muriel's bridesmaids because
• 55:53
  Speaker 2: they kind of came crawling back.
• 55:55
  Speaker 3: That made my blood boil. I was so mad at
• 55:57
  Speaker 3: Muriel in that moment for because you're like, oh, she
• 56:01
  Speaker 3: grow up, she needs to grow up like she does. Yeah,
• 56:05
  Speaker 3: she does. Honestly, I was like nice of Ronda to
• 56:08
  Speaker 3: even show up.
• 56:10
  Speaker 2: She's there quite reluctantly.
• 56:12
  Speaker 3: It also feels like Ronda's doing something that like I've
• 56:15
  Speaker 3: never done this at a wedding, but I've definitely done
• 56:17
  Speaker 3: it at various events, just like showing up to be
• 56:21
  Speaker 3: like here I am and how bad does it feel
• 56:23
  Speaker 3: to see me right now? Yeah, it feels like Ronda's
• 56:27
  Speaker 3: pulling one of those and I respect that totally.
• 56:30
  Speaker 2: So they're there. Bryce is there for some reason.
• 56:35
  Speaker 3: Again, just like another character that we really only encounter
• 56:39
  Speaker 3: once or twice, who is given. I thought like sort
• 56:42
  Speaker 3: of this deeper lore by showing up later where it
• 56:45
  Speaker 3: seems like he first of all, he's dressed like he's
• 56:47
  Speaker 3: going to a funeral, which felt intentional. He's wearing all black,
• 56:51
  Speaker 3: and I think it's implied that like he's upset things
• 56:53
  Speaker 3: didn't work out between him and Muriel, and like he
• 56:56
  Speaker 3: seems really sad that she's getting married to someone else. Yeah,
• 57:03
  Speaker 3: which is just a lot of lare. Even though he
• 57:05
  Speaker 3: never speaks again, I don't think, No.
• 57:07
  Speaker 2: He doesn't. We don't see him on screen. I don't
• 57:09
  Speaker 2: think after this either, sometimes I was like, maybe I
• 57:12
  Speaker 2: don't really get Australian humor. Is this supposed to be
• 57:16
  Speaker 2: a joke?
• 57:16
  Speaker 3: I think so. I mean I feel like the whole
• 57:19
  Speaker 3: the whole wedding is like a combination of being a joke,
• 57:23
  Speaker 3: but it's also like it's I found it genuinely unsettling
• 57:27
  Speaker 3: to watch, Like though it is kind of like a
• 57:30
  Speaker 3: horror movie in the way it plays out.
• 57:33
  Speaker 2: It's yeah, it does kind of remind you of Carrie
• 57:37
  Speaker 2: in like the prompt scene where she's like so excited
• 57:40
  Speaker 2: to have one prom queen. Meanwhile, maryel is like grinning
• 57:45
  Speaker 2: ear to ear. This is like her what she has
• 57:49
  Speaker 2: been conditioned to think is supposed to be like, you know,
• 57:51
  Speaker 2: the happiest day of her life. And she's so ecstatic
• 57:55
  Speaker 2: she's getting married, which is what she's always wanted. And
• 57:57
  Speaker 2: it doesn't matter that it's a sham marriage to a
• 58:00
  Speaker 2: man who is disgusted by her. She's still like.
• 58:03
  Speaker 3: It's it's devastating. And the way, and again it is
• 58:07
  Speaker 3: like the way Tony Kleett like manages to straddle how
• 58:11
  Speaker 3: tragic that is with how funny she is. We're like
• 58:15
  Speaker 3: the huge spile and the like yeah, la like contrasted
• 58:20
  Speaker 3: with people looking like they're at a funeral, like it's
• 58:23
  Speaker 3: really unsettling and a little bit funny, and it's yeah,
• 58:27
  Speaker 3: it is like I feel like the Carrie. That's a
• 58:29
  Speaker 3: really good comparison and like somehow even worse than that,
• 58:32
  Speaker 3: because we know that Muriel views marriage as a path
• 58:38
  Speaker 3: to feeling seen and feeling validated and as a potential
• 58:44
  Speaker 3: way to love herself. It's not like she doesn't fully
• 58:47
  Speaker 3: understand that the marriage is fake, Like she knows that
• 58:51
  Speaker 3: that's not something that she's going to be confronted by later.
• 58:54
  Speaker 3: That was like in the text. So it's like she's
• 58:56
  Speaker 3: smiling because she's and thinks that she's about to be
• 59:03
  Speaker 3: able to love herself for the first time. It has
• 59:06
  Speaker 3: like which isn't you know whatever. I mean, they're doing
• 59:08
  Speaker 3: a business transaction. I don't really care about David's apartheid
• 59:12
  Speaker 3: ass feelings so like, but but it's like she knows
• 59:16
  Speaker 3: what's happening and is still so thrilled because of how
• 59:20
  Speaker 3: she's been conditioned to view marriage. And it's so like,
• 59:23
  Speaker 3: I feel like the moment you see her happiest is
• 59:26
  Speaker 3: like I think it's Tanya. They all have very similar
• 59:31
  Speaker 3: hair colors. Who looks at Muriel in her wedding dress
• 59:34
  Speaker 3: and says like kind of in horror, like Muriel, you're beautiful,
• 59:38
  Speaker 3: and she's like glowing at like hearing that from these
• 59:43
  Speaker 3: women who have bullied her her entire life. And yeah,
• 59:47
  Speaker 3: it's just like she's looking I mean, that's like Muriel's again,
• 59:51
  Speaker 3: and it's like, how can you falter for that? I
• 59:53
  Speaker 3: think all of us have done this to some extent,
• 59:56
  Speaker 3: and everyone has had someone in their life that has
• 59:58
  Speaker 3: been a more extreme exam it of like looking for
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 3: validation from the people who are cruelest to them instead
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 3: of focusing on themselves. And then you're just like you
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 3: just want to shake her and be like Ronda's right
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 3: over there, like when you stop talking to these people
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 3: that But that's just I don't know. I just this
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 3: movie is so good because you're like this is just
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 3: like an abusive cycle that Muriel is caught up in, no,
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 3: and like she's seeking out validation and love from people
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 3: who just are not capable of it.
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it reminded me of eighth grade because that's the
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 2: journey that the Kayla character goes on throughout the whole movie.
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 2: I was also so devastated because in this wedding scene,
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 2: the one other character besides Ronda, who seems like she
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 2: truly cares for Muriel and her well being. Is Muriel's mom,
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 2: And she shows up at the wedding and she's late,
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 2: but she's there like she had to take a cat
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 2: like all that. Like her father was there to like
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 2: give her away, and he'll so very cruelly. He's like,
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 2: she's yours now, sir, Like.
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 3: Well, and it's also like her her father is there
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 3: because it makes him look good to be there again.
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 3: It's like everything with him is selfish.
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 2: It's about image, yeah, yeah, elevating his image. Her mom comes,
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 2: she's alone, she's brought this gift that she's clearly intending
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 2: to give to Mariel. Mariel completely like breezes past her
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 2: and ignores her own mother, and.
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 3: She starts crying and she starts crying, Oh my god.
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 2: And then things just only get sadder from there with
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 2: her mother. But I was just like, oh, like, Mariel,
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 2: the people who love you, they are there for you,
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 2: and you're like blowing them off, and it's so so sad.
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 2: She needs to grow up.
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 3: It's really sad. Yeah, And I'm also like she's like
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 3: twenty two, like it's but but it. Yeah, the stuff
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 3: with her mom again, it's I it's so it felt
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 3: very I'm trying to think of a less corny way
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 3: to say subversive, but let's just say it. But the
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 3: way that the family is introduced at the beginning, at least,
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 3: like I was not expecting to get so much depth
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 3: in those characters, Like I'm so used to seeing like
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 3: this is the family that she wants to get away from,
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 3: and wouldn't you they suck, you know, And as time
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 3: goes on, it's like, I mean, at least the way
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 3: that Bill sucks is relentless, but it is so much
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 3: more complicated and specific than you're you know, led to believe.
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 3: And and the ways that her mother is just like ignored,
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 3: the dynamic among the siblings, like it's not you know,
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 3: like Dostoyevsky, but but there's a lot of depth to
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 3: the way that this family processes having to know each other.
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 3: I agree.
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's so many movies of a similar ilk or
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 2: that would be sort of like maybe lumped in with
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 2: this movie because wedding is in the title, have such
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 2: tropy stock characters as far as like I mean, the
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 2: leads also, but especially the like, you know, the family,
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 2: you know, the mom and the dad, or the siblings
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 2: or the best friends. And this movie takes time to
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 2: show you how all of these characters are. They feel
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 2: like real people. They aren't these tropy stock characters. They
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 2: have layers, there's layers to them.
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 3: It's shreky in it. Sure it's stree, but they're But
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 3: but it's also because I mean, and I know the
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 3: movie so it's over. But the like, I have complicated
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 3: feelings towards the way that the Cruel Friends are portrayed,
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 3: because they are sort of made out to be, you know,
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 3: like sort of the brain dead bimbo stereotype. Right. But
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 3: the reason I'm inclined to give this at least some
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 3: of a pass is because of the like stock characters
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 3: we're talking about, where, you know, the Cruel Friends are
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 3: usually the protagonists in these movies, and Muriel is a
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 3: side character. Someone with a disability is fully a side
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 3: character that you don't get any insight into their inner life.
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 3: Muriel's family they're like, you wouldn't know a thing about them.
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 3: So it's weirdly like the people that you're used to
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 3: seeing as protagonists, even like Bryce kind of disappearing when
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 3: he seemed to be introduced as like, here's the love interest,
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 3: just kidding, like he'll show up onths later. It just
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 3: feels like, yeah, you're meeting these stock characters and then
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 3: seeing them either deepened or written off in a way
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 3: that they usually wouldn't be, and it's hard to be
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 3: mad at it.
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 2: It's interesting. Yeah, so uh, let's see what happens next.
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 2: The wedding happens afterward, Ronda confronts Muriel for being a phony,
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 2: because Muriel's like, my girlfriends who dumped me, they came
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 2: crawling back because I'm famous.
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 3: My bullies are literally obsessed with me. I was like,
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 3: come on.
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 2: Right, And Ronda's like, okay, well that is not impressive
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 2: number one number two, I have to move back to
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 2: Porpoise spit because you abandoned me. And she says, ooh,
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 2: this is my favorite line. She says, maryel van Arkle
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 2: is not half the person that Muriel heslop was.
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 3: So true, so true. I just yeah, it's it's great.
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 3: And then the fact that Ronda is then doomed to
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 3: also hang out this bummer group of girls. I'm just like,
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 3: oh my god, I was using why she goes along
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 3: with that I would sooner be alone. I'm assuming that
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 3: it's like it seems like when we see them together later,
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 3: it seems like Ronda's mom invited them over. I think
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 3: they're at Ronda's place. Yeah, because her so I think Ronda,
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 3: like Ronda's mom was trying to like force Ronda to
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 3: socialize with people she didn't like.
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 2: Right because earlier, earlier in the movie, Ronda says, I'd
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 2: rather swallow rite of blades than have drinks with the
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 2: lux of you.
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 3: And you're like, and the way the things end with them,
• 1:06:37
  Speaker 3: well we have let's just get to the end of
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 3: the movie.
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, So Ronda calls Muriel out back in Porpoise
• 1:06:43
  Speaker 2: spit Betty, Mariel's mom accidentally takes some shoes from a
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 2: store without paying for them, and the same woman.
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 3: Because her feet, her feet her mm hmm.
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 2: And she paid for everything else. It just seems like
• 1:06:59
  Speaker 2: she forgot to pay for and she has so much
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 2: on her mind. Her family hates her and they're cruel
• 1:07:04
  Speaker 2: to her.
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 3: And it was also like and now that she's been
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 3: abandoned by her husband, like she's never been more alone
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 3: in taking care of the family, because she was like
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 3: asking for basic help from her adult children and husband
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 3: when things were quote unquote normal and everyone was saying no.
• 1:07:25
  Speaker 3: So now it's like her work has been compounded even
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 3: worse and everyone is still ignoring her. Who wouldn't shoplift
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 3: under these circumstances.
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 2: True, but she gets in trouble because the same woman
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 2: who got Muriel arrested for stealing the dress. She narks
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 2: on Betty.
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 3: What a callback wild who thought we would see Diane again?
• 1:07:48
  Speaker 2: Wasn't expecting her to make a return. But this is
• 1:07:51
  Speaker 2: when Bill tells Betty that he wants a divorce. He's
• 1:07:55
  Speaker 2: like leaving her once and for all.
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 3: After he does the thing that he does, the fucking
• 1:07:59
  Speaker 3: everybody and basically sweet talks Betty out of like having
• 1:08:03
  Speaker 3: to serve any time because he's like, oh, I you know,
• 1:08:07
  Speaker 3: all cops are my friends, which is like a red flag, right,
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 3: But he's super nice to protect ostensibly to protect Betty,
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 3: but it's just to protect his reputation absolutely, because he
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 3: immediately becomes extremely cruel to her this and it's also, oh,
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 3: it just made me so I hate him so much.
• 1:08:29
  Speaker 3: Like the when they're on the way back and she
• 1:08:32
  Speaker 3: was like, I meant to pay for it and like,
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 3: I'm so tired, I really just need some help. And
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 3: then he just turns the radio on and starts ignoring her,
• 1:08:41
  Speaker 3: and I'm just like, why won't your head explode?
• 1:08:46
  Speaker 2: Like it's tell me about it, nightmare. And then he
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 2: tells her he's like divorcing her, and then he says
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 2: the reason he wasn't elected to state government when he
• 1:08:57
  Speaker 2: ran previously was because his family was such an embarrassment.
• 1:09:01
  Speaker 3: I really thought for a second, because at this point,
• 1:09:03
  Speaker 3: I'm like, this anything could happen in this movie. I
• 1:09:06
  Speaker 3: was sort of hoping that she was gonna like shoot him,
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 3: kill him. I sort of thought for a second, I
• 1:09:12
  Speaker 3: was like, I wouldn't be mad if she simply shot him.
• 1:09:15
  Speaker 2: I would wove for her to do that. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:09:18
  Speaker 2: But instead she's devastated. She lashes out at her son
• 1:09:24
  Speaker 2: for not mowing the lawn. I think, or yeah, he's
• 1:09:27
  Speaker 2: right there, and like this is the first moment we
• 1:09:30
  Speaker 2: see her kind of breakdown, and then Betty dies A
• 1:09:36
  Speaker 2: short time later. Maryel is told that it was a
• 1:09:40
  Speaker 2: heart attack, but we find out that Betty died by suicide.
• 1:09:45
  Speaker 3: And that this and this again just like such a
• 1:09:49
  Speaker 3: fucking twist of the knife because we find this out
• 1:09:51
  Speaker 3: from a character who Joni, Muriel's sister, who were introduced
• 1:09:57
  Speaker 3: to in this very like one liner jokey way, because
• 1:10:02
  Speaker 3: every time we heard from Joni, she's like your terrible Mariel,
• 1:10:07
  Speaker 3: like that's her like catch phrase, and she's like the
• 1:10:12
  Speaker 3: younger sister I think, who always is like, haha, you're
• 1:10:16
  Speaker 3: in trouble. And that's kind of the only thing we've
• 1:10:18
  Speaker 3: known about her other than she rips SIGs hanging out
• 1:10:22
  Speaker 3: on the couch. That's what we know about this character.
• 1:10:25
  Speaker 3: But then you get like this moment of incredible depth
• 1:10:28
  Speaker 3: into this character in a way that you just like
• 1:10:30
  Speaker 3: aren't expecting. Where Joni found her mother's body, Yeah, was
• 1:10:36
  Speaker 3: able to glean that it had been a fatal pill
• 1:10:39
  Speaker 3: overdose and that the doctor had covered this up at
• 1:10:44
  Speaker 3: the father's request because quote unquote he's been through enough,
• 1:10:49
  Speaker 3: and so the fact that it was still like this
• 1:10:53
  Speaker 3: poor woman's like final cry for help was not going
• 1:10:56
  Speaker 3: to be heard because of the person who is abusive
• 1:11:00
  Speaker 3: and horrible to her, like it's just uh, and then
• 1:11:03
  Speaker 3: the way he acts at the funeral, it's just like
• 1:11:05
  Speaker 3: But anyways, that that moment with Joanie is like really perfect.
• 1:11:10
  Speaker 3: I mean, she's like the it seems like the brothers
• 1:11:12
  Speaker 3: are kind of in shock. Weirdly, the youngest daughter seems
• 1:11:16
  Speaker 3: like she's inviting her crushes to the funeral question of Mark.
• 1:11:19
  Speaker 3: That was weird.
• 1:11:20
  Speaker 2: I couldn't I forgot she was one of the siblings
• 1:11:23
  Speaker 2: half the time, because I think we don't see her
• 1:11:26
  Speaker 2: in some of like the dinner scenes or something, or
• 1:11:28
  Speaker 2: she's like focus.
• 1:11:30
  Speaker 3: Everyone processes death differently whatever, But like, but just seeing
• 1:11:34
  Speaker 3: Jonie in that moment, be like what am I going
• 1:11:35
  Speaker 3: to do without her? And realize like, oh, yeah, they
• 1:11:39
  Speaker 3: were extremely close and like almost every time you see Joni,
• 1:11:42
  Speaker 3: she's with her mom, and and that before the movie's over.
• 1:11:47
  Speaker 3: In a way that it is also kind of made
• 1:11:50
  Speaker 3: me feel sad, was that you could already see sort
• 1:11:55
  Speaker 3: of the beginning stages of Jonie beginning to fill the
• 1:11:58
  Speaker 3: role that her mother filled in her in her dad's
• 1:12:01
  Speaker 3: life of like, you know, then she like hollers down
• 1:12:05
  Speaker 3: to him from the balcony and is like, games on,
• 1:12:08
  Speaker 3: want me to get you a beer? And it's like
• 1:12:10
  Speaker 3: the daughter sort of filling this servile role that the
• 1:12:12
  Speaker 3: mom filled and to someone who just like couldn't deserve
• 1:12:17
  Speaker 3: love less.
• 1:12:21
  Speaker 2: It's just got I know this.
• 1:12:22
  Speaker 3: This movie is about breaking out of the cycle of abuse.
• 1:12:27
  Speaker 2: I know. And then you mentioned so. The funeral is
• 1:12:33
  Speaker 2: the next scene, and we see that Bill piece of
• 1:12:37
  Speaker 2: shit that he is, is more concerned about how the
• 1:12:40
  Speaker 2: press perceive him.
• 1:12:42
  Speaker 3: It's clear he like called the press to be like,
• 1:12:44
  Speaker 3: you're gonna want to come to my what my wife's funeral?
• 1:12:48
  Speaker 2: Wife's funeral? And he doesn't seem to be grieving at all,
• 1:12:53
  Speaker 2: or it's just he's so horrible. And this is the
• 1:12:58
  Speaker 2: moment that Mauriel realizes not only what a prick her
• 1:13:02
  Speaker 2: dad is, but that she is similar to him in
• 1:13:06
  Speaker 2: the sense that she cares too much about what other
• 1:13:08
  Speaker 2: people think of her. She has lied to people and
• 1:13:12
  Speaker 2: sabotaged meaningful relationships along the way, and she doesn't want
• 1:13:16
  Speaker 2: to be like that anymore. She breaks down her husband,
• 1:13:20
  Speaker 2: David Van Arkle.
• 1:13:22
  Speaker 3: Who again like this is a a It seems like
• 1:13:24
  Speaker 3: another movie is about to start, and then it does
• 1:13:27
  Speaker 3: it and you're like, yay, but I was like, oh,
• 1:13:31
  Speaker 3: he came what he came to the funeral?
• 1:13:34
  Speaker 2: He consults her, this is the first time he's been
• 1:13:37
  Speaker 2: any manner of like tender toward her, which feels kind of.
• 1:13:41
  Speaker 3: Like a payoff of one of the few interactions we've
• 1:13:44
  Speaker 3: seen with them before, another very depressing movie, very depressing
• 1:13:50
  Speaker 3: scene in a movie that's full of them. But when
• 1:13:52
  Speaker 3: they get back to his like fancy apartment after their
• 1:13:56
  Speaker 3: wedding and you know, all the pretenses are dropped and
• 1:14:00
  Speaker 3: he's like, all right, there's your room. I'm gonna go swim,
• 1:14:04
  Speaker 3: and like can kind of feel how meaningful the wedding
• 1:14:09
  Speaker 3: was to Muriel and asks her like who the hell
• 1:14:12
  Speaker 3: marries someone? Like why would you marry someone who's a stranger?
• 1:14:15
  Speaker 3: And she's like, well, you dude just said that and
• 1:14:18
  Speaker 3: he's like, well, it's because I want to win, and
• 1:14:20
  Speaker 3: she's like so do I, and like they're talking about
• 1:14:23
  Speaker 3: totally different things, but you see that that like affects
• 1:14:27
  Speaker 3: him in some way. But you're like, I don't know
• 1:14:30
  Speaker 3: if that's but it clearly it does come back because
• 1:14:33
  Speaker 3: whatever thought this you know, fucking goof is capable of having,
• 1:14:38
  Speaker 3: at least it was like, oh, I was viewing this
• 1:14:41
  Speaker 3: person as a warm body and it turns out that
• 1:14:45
  Speaker 3: they're a fucking person, which is a very low bar
• 1:14:50
  Speaker 3: to clear, but many.
• 1:14:51
  Speaker 2: Do not clear it this is true, but yeah, he
• 1:14:56
  Speaker 2: consoles her as she's crying. They kiss, and I think
• 1:15:01
  Speaker 2: it is implied that they have sex. Yeah, but the
• 1:15:05
  Speaker 2: next morning she's like, I'm leaving. We have to break up, goodbye,
• 1:15:10
  Speaker 2: And then her dad is like, Muriel, I need you
• 1:15:14
  Speaker 2: to stay and help me raise the kids. Even though
• 1:15:18
  Speaker 2: like how old are these kids? It seems like there's
• 1:15:21
  Speaker 2: maybe one under eighteen?
• 1:15:23
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I thought so too.
• 1:15:24
  Speaker 2: They're like the youngest daughter is she's like a teenager,
• 1:15:29
  Speaker 2: a teenager, but yeah, the rest of them seem pretty
• 1:15:31
  Speaker 2: close to, if not in fully adulthood.
• 1:15:35
  Speaker 3: Yes, we also learn that in the sort of towards
• 1:15:39
  Speaker 3: the end of Muriel's mother's life that she burned the
• 1:15:44
  Speaker 3: lawn because she was so frustrated that she wasn't able
• 1:15:48
  Speaker 3: to get help with it. It just seemed like there was
• 1:15:51
  Speaker 3: a lot of struggling that Muriel at very least didn't see,
• 1:15:59
  Speaker 3: and I think to some extent with the kids without
• 1:16:01
  Speaker 3: putting the blak because it is like pretty squarely on
• 1:16:03
  Speaker 3: the father, but like a struggle that they weren't comfortable seeing, right.
• 1:16:10
  Speaker 2: I think it's probably a combination of her mom was
• 1:16:14
  Speaker 2: like good at hiding her various problems, and also that
• 1:16:22
  Speaker 2: Muriel and her siblings were wilfully ignoring any signs that
• 1:16:27
  Speaker 2: their mother was struggling because they didn't want to be
• 1:16:30
  Speaker 2: bothered with it, or they were too focused on themselves
• 1:16:34
  Speaker 2: or whatever else along those lines.
• 1:16:37
  Speaker 3: And I think that there is this I want to
• 1:16:39
  Speaker 3: be very careful with the way that I phrase this,
• 1:16:42
  Speaker 3: but it's a dynamic that is familiar to me, not
• 1:16:45
  Speaker 3: in like my specific family dynamic, but whatever I've seen
• 1:16:50
  Speaker 3: it of kids perceiving specifically mothers, usually as weak and
• 1:17:00
  Speaker 3: as targets of mockery in a lot of cases, and like,
• 1:17:06
  Speaker 3: I don't want to be like her kind of thing
• 1:17:08
  Speaker 3: without you know, considering how she got there, And yeah,
• 1:17:14
  Speaker 3: like that, it just feels like a very specific dynamic
• 1:17:17
  Speaker 3: that I haven't really seen a lot in movies. And
• 1:17:22
  Speaker 3: also that like to some extent that Betty was didn't
• 1:17:26
  Speaker 3: want her kids see her struggle because she doesn't want
• 1:17:30
  Speaker 3: to worry her kids, and like we see that in
• 1:17:32
  Speaker 3: scenes where you know, she's again very willfully ignoring the
• 1:17:37
  Speaker 3: fact that Muriel has obviously stolen this money, and it's like,
• 1:17:41
  Speaker 3: maybe it was a mistake, maybe it was my fault.
• 1:17:43
  Speaker 3: I don't know anything's possible. And Muriel's honest, and she
• 1:17:46
  Speaker 3: still doesn't want to quite want to hear it. She
• 1:17:49
  Speaker 3: doesn't want to quite tell her kids why, like but
• 1:17:52
  Speaker 3: only that's another reason where when you get that information
• 1:17:55
  Speaker 3: later that Jonie was the one to find that she
• 1:18:00
  Speaker 3: died by suicide, and that Jonie seems to be the
• 1:18:03
  Speaker 3: only sibling who knows why their dad is gone, it's like, oh,
• 1:18:07
  Speaker 3: these two characters had it, Like Jonie was her confidant,
• 1:18:11
  Speaker 3: because Janie is the one that calls Muriel and it's like, yeah,
• 1:18:14
  Speaker 3: Dad like left her. But then when confronted about it,
• 1:18:18
  Speaker 3: Betty is like, oh no, don't worry about it. Oh
• 1:18:22
  Speaker 3: I've got to go. We're getting raided by the government. Yeah,
• 1:18:26
  Speaker 3: you're just like cut o. God, Like, I just hope
• 1:18:31
  Speaker 3: in her next life, this this fictional character caught a
• 1:18:34
  Speaker 3: fucking break, Like it just is so But yeah, I
• 1:18:39
  Speaker 3: don't know, like it it's so tragic what happens to her.
• 1:18:42
  Speaker 3: But I don't know. I mean, I thought that the
• 1:18:45
  Speaker 3: movie showed a lot of care and thought towards her
• 1:18:49
  Speaker 3: in a way that I wasn't used to in this genre.
• 1:18:52
  Speaker 2: Totally I agree, and I was I mean the moments
• 1:18:58
  Speaker 2: that were the most gut right and chinked to me.
• 1:19:01
  Speaker 2: We're surrounding the Betty character because she's just so abused
• 1:19:08
  Speaker 2: and neglected by her husband, by her children. She's just
• 1:19:14
  Speaker 2: seems to be kind of waiting on people hand and foot,
• 1:19:17
  Speaker 2: and no one is grateful, and no one checks in
• 1:19:20
  Speaker 2: with her, and no one cares about how she feels
• 1:19:23
  Speaker 2: and life it seems like except for Jonie right right.
• 1:19:27
  Speaker 2: And Muriel is again too busy wrapped up in her
• 1:19:31
  Speaker 2: own image and getting married to whoever will marry her
• 1:19:37
  Speaker 2: to notice all the things that's going on with her mother,
• 1:19:39
  Speaker 2: and it's just, oh, it's devastating.
• 1:19:42
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:19:43
  Speaker 2: But so there's this moment where her dad, Bill is like,
• 1:19:47
  Speaker 2: you have to stay and help me raise the kids,
• 1:19:49
  Speaker 2: and Muriel's like, no, I don't, that's actually your job
• 1:19:52
  Speaker 2: as a parent. So goodbye, and she leaves. She goes
• 1:19:56
  Speaker 2: to Ronda's house, who, like we mentioned before, is hanging
• 1:20:00
  Speaker 2: out with Tanya.
• 1:20:02
  Speaker 3: She's basically been kidnapped like her I think her mom
• 1:20:05
  Speaker 3: is like forcing her to hang out with these assholes.
• 1:20:08
  Speaker 2: Yes, And Mariel comes in and she asks Ronda to
• 1:20:13
  Speaker 2: move back to Sydney with her, and Ronda, who is
• 1:20:17
  Speaker 2: still upset with Muriel, is like whoelm okay, I forgive you.
• 1:20:24
  Speaker 2: Let's go, and they get in a cab and the
• 1:20:27
  Speaker 2: movie ends with the two of them yelling out the
• 1:20:30
  Speaker 2: car windows saying like goodbye to the streets and the
• 1:20:34
  Speaker 2: malls and the beaches of Porpoise. Spit and so let's
• 1:20:42
  Speaker 2: take another quick break and we'll come back to discuss further, and.
• 1:20:56
  Speaker 3: We're back will I've already talked about a lot of
• 1:21:01
  Speaker 3: elements of the movie in the abstract that was By
• 1:21:05
  Speaker 3: the way, kudos on the recap. That was not an
• 1:21:08
  Speaker 3: easy recap.
• 1:21:10
  Speaker 2: No, it wasn't. I tried to make it as like
• 1:21:13
  Speaker 2: concise as possible, but again, just so much happens. There's
• 1:21:16
  Speaker 2: so many tonal and narrative shifts throughout this movie that
• 1:21:22
  Speaker 2: it was difficult. But I did my best. You did
• 1:21:24
  Speaker 2: a wonderful jop, Oh, thank you saving much.
• 1:21:26
  Speaker 3: There is one thing I just wanted to add to
• 1:21:30
  Speaker 3: the tale end. I guess that could get a conversation
• 1:21:33
  Speaker 3: started or not whatever. But with her dad towards the
• 1:21:39
  Speaker 3: end of the movie, I think the last scene he
• 1:21:41
  Speaker 3: appears in where like you said, like he's like Muriel,
• 1:21:46
  Speaker 3: You're gonna have to raise your adult siblings for me,
• 1:21:49
  Speaker 3: And she's like, no, I don't think so, pretty sure
• 1:21:52
  Speaker 3: that you should have been doing that for twenty something
• 1:21:54
  Speaker 3: years at this point. Yeah, but that her dad. I
• 1:21:58
  Speaker 3: don't even know how to feel about it, because he
• 1:21:59
  Speaker 3: is like, it seems like he has a moment of
• 1:22:02
  Speaker 3: self awareness that I didn't think he was capable of having.
• 1:22:06
  Speaker 3: So I was a little bumped by it. It sort
• 1:22:09
  Speaker 3: of felt like it was like trying to knit a
• 1:22:11
  Speaker 3: bow on it where he it seems like the person
• 1:22:14
  Speaker 3: that we've spent time with this whole time would be like, well,
• 1:22:16
  Speaker 3: go fuck yourself, goodbye forever, like be cruel. But the Yeah,
• 1:22:22
  Speaker 3: so this was a little schmalzy for me, But I
• 1:22:25
  Speaker 3: did think it was an interesting choice that he kind
• 1:22:28
  Speaker 3: of has this moment of lucidity and is like, you
• 1:22:34
  Speaker 3: reap what you sew. It is basically admitting like everyone
• 1:22:38
  Speaker 3: is leaving me because I have been nothing but selfish
• 1:22:42
  Speaker 3: and which again just like really packs a gut punch
• 1:22:46
  Speaker 3: for when Jonie calls down to him a character who
• 1:22:50
  Speaker 3: he is also abused and lambasted as much as he
• 1:22:54
  Speaker 3: has to anyone else in the family and she's like,
• 1:22:57
  Speaker 3: what can I get for you? And you know, it
• 1:22:59
  Speaker 3: just seems like she's mimicking the behavior that she saw
• 1:23:04
  Speaker 3: in her mom of you know, like taking care of
• 1:23:07
  Speaker 3: people even when they're horrible to you. And I don't know,
• 1:23:10
  Speaker 3: I mean again, it's it's a very sad note to
• 1:23:13
  Speaker 3: leave things on but his I don't know, she can
• 1:23:16
  Speaker 3: we can we talk a little bit more about her mom? Yeah,
• 1:23:20
  Speaker 3: just because I mean so much of the movie, the
• 1:23:22
  Speaker 3: end of it becomes about her mom. Where we were
• 1:23:26
  Speaker 3: getting at this in the recap where it's such a
• 1:23:29
  Speaker 3: complicated thing because it's it's very clear that like Betty
• 1:23:33
  Speaker 3: is so struggling with depression and it seems like she
• 1:23:37
  Speaker 3: uses denial as a tool to get through the day basically,
• 1:23:42
  Speaker 3: and then the reference that she had been taking sleeping
• 1:23:44
  Speaker 3: pills for a while, which is also like possibly a
• 1:23:46
  Speaker 3: self medication technique, Like you know, that her life was
• 1:23:50
  Speaker 3: not easy and she'd been conditioned to believe that no
• 1:23:53
  Speaker 3: one was ever going to care about it. But that also,
• 1:23:57
  Speaker 3: I mean that it's a tricky and I guess I'll
• 1:23:59
  Speaker 3: just like leave it this because I don't know how
• 1:24:01
  Speaker 3: to properly have this conversation really but how her being
• 1:24:06
  Speaker 3: put in this horrible position by her abusive husband also
• 1:24:11
  Speaker 3: means that her self medicating and you know, sort of
• 1:24:14
  Speaker 3: willfully passively allowing him to continue his reign of terror
• 1:24:19
  Speaker 3: has negative effect on her kids. And it's tricky because
• 1:24:24
  Speaker 3: I don't want to victim blame her, But in parental
• 1:24:28
  Speaker 3: situations like that, especially, it's so hard to talk about
• 1:24:32
  Speaker 3: because there's like a wounded part of me that's like, well,
• 1:24:36
  Speaker 3: isn't she kind of enabling this abuse towards her children
• 1:24:39
  Speaker 3: by never calling it out when it's happening right in
• 1:24:42
  Speaker 3: front of her, which of course is an offshoot of
• 1:24:47
  Speaker 3: her being abused and probably fear of retaliation from her
• 1:24:51
  Speaker 3: husband and all of these horrible things. But in the
• 1:24:54
  Speaker 3: same way, it's I mean, it's just a very sad
• 1:24:57
  Speaker 3: situation to see because it's like he, you know, the father,
• 1:25:01
  Speaker 3: is laying into any of his kids at any given opportunity,
• 1:25:05
  Speaker 3: and she's very often right there and kind of pretends
• 1:25:09
  Speaker 3: it doesn't isn't happening, or will say something behind his back,
• 1:25:15
  Speaker 3: but not to It's just it's just really sad to
• 1:25:18
  Speaker 3: take a family that's like so thoroughly abused, especially by
• 1:25:22
  Speaker 3: someone as narcissistic as Bill, who will turn on the
• 1:25:26
  Speaker 3: charm anytime someone who isn't his family is in the room.
• 1:25:31
  Speaker 2: And I think, I mean, it's effective because it's so
• 1:25:37
  Speaker 2: emblematic of real dynamics. I think, like we're so used
• 1:25:42
  Speaker 2: to watching Hollywood movies that often like sugarcoat these things
• 1:25:49
  Speaker 2: or ignore them, or if there is an abusive family dynamic,
• 1:25:54
  Speaker 2: it's portrayed in this trophy way or like jokey or
• 1:26:00
  Speaker 2: cartoonish way or something. And this being like an indie
• 1:26:05
  Speaker 2: Australian movie, we were like, oh, this actually resembles authentic
• 1:26:12
  Speaker 2: human dynamics. Obviously not all of them, but like, this
• 1:26:15
  Speaker 2: is this is a familiar dynamic that I've observed in
• 1:26:21
  Speaker 2: other people. I mean, there are It's not a one
• 1:26:25
  Speaker 2: for one, but I've I kind of saw a little
• 1:26:28
  Speaker 2: bit of my family in.
• 1:26:30
  Speaker 3: Sure Likewise, likewise.
• 1:26:32
  Speaker 2: Where like my dad is a narcissist, he was not
• 1:26:36
  Speaker 2: outwardly cruel to my siblings and I, but he was
• 1:26:42
  Speaker 2: certainly like emotionally negligent. And then like my mom would
• 1:26:47
  Speaker 2: try to challenge it sometimes, but usually it was easier
• 1:26:50
  Speaker 2: for her to just kind of like power through and
• 1:26:55
  Speaker 2: do the best buy her kids as she could. And
• 1:26:58
  Speaker 2: I feel like we weren't always as great well as
• 1:27:00
  Speaker 2: we should have been for our mom's attempts at keeping
• 1:27:02
  Speaker 2: things stable in the household, and we didn't do a
• 1:27:06
  Speaker 2: great job of considering how she might be feeling and
• 1:27:09
  Speaker 2: stuff like that. Yeah, so I was like, oh, this,
• 1:27:12
  Speaker 2: there's some familiar stuff. I've experienced variations of this in
• 1:27:17
  Speaker 2: my own life.
• 1:27:18
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, it reminds me a lot of an aunt
• 1:27:22
  Speaker 3: and uncle that like, yeah, I spent a lot of
• 1:27:24
  Speaker 3: time where it's just and how it is portrayed as like,
• 1:27:30
  Speaker 3: you know, on a long enough timeline, this is just
• 1:27:32
  Speaker 3: normal for them, Like, oh, yeah, this is just how,
• 1:27:35
  Speaker 3: And I think it is. The movie doesn't bash you
• 1:27:38
  Speaker 3: over the head with it, but that Muriel is just
• 1:27:42
  Speaker 3: any time she's nearer her father until the very end
• 1:27:46
  Speaker 3: when he realizes that, you know, he has no more
• 1:27:48
  Speaker 3: power to exert over her. She's not going to go
• 1:27:51
  Speaker 3: back because she's concerned about her mom. Because her mom
• 1:27:54
  Speaker 3: isn't there, she is no longer financially obligated, Like she's
• 1:27:59
  Speaker 3: extracted herself from this cycle of abuse that her family's
• 1:28:02
  Speaker 3: caught in. I think it's sad and realistic that the
• 1:28:04
  Speaker 3: whole family is not liberated from it, at least not
• 1:28:08
  Speaker 3: right away. But anyways, towards the beginning where he calls
• 1:28:12
  Speaker 3: her lazy, he points out, like I spent all this
• 1:28:14
  Speaker 3: money on her and she can't even type, and she's like, yes,
• 1:28:17
  Speaker 3: I can, and he's like, no, you can't. He body
• 1:28:21
  Speaker 3: shames her, like, and it seems like her response to
• 1:28:24
  Speaker 3: that is just like she's tremendously depressed the second she
• 1:28:28
  Speaker 3: leaves her life. I mean, it's a mess because she's
• 1:28:32
  Speaker 3: like twenty one or whatever, but like, but she immediately
• 1:28:35
  Speaker 3: gets a job, Like she immediately is able to do all,
• 1:28:39
  Speaker 3: like live independently in the way that her dad would
• 1:28:41
  Speaker 3: tell her every day she couldn't possibly do. And it's
• 1:28:44
  Speaker 3: like right, because being away from that energy and that
• 1:28:49
  Speaker 3: horribleness is what would allow you to just be a person.
• 1:28:52
  Speaker 3: And it's just I feel like the storytelling does that
• 1:28:54
  Speaker 3: so effortlessly, where it literally is like cut to her
• 1:28:58
  Speaker 3: having a job that she likes, because you could do
• 1:29:03
  Speaker 3: that in the nineties, I think. But I just thought
• 1:29:07
  Speaker 3: it was like, really, yeah, the dad is the source
• 1:29:11
  Speaker 3: of terror is just.
• 1:29:12
  Speaker 2: Like so clear, right, And it also informs probably why
• 1:29:18
  Speaker 2: she puts up with the abuse from Tanya and all
• 1:29:22
  Speaker 2: of those women who are so cruel to her, because
• 1:29:25
  Speaker 2: when you've become accustomed to abuse, then you going back
• 1:29:32
  Speaker 2: to my family, like my mom was raised by a
• 1:29:35
  Speaker 2: very abusive mother, and she has said to me many
• 1:29:40
  Speaker 2: many times, like that's why I married your dad, who
• 1:29:43
  Speaker 2: was like not good to me. But that's what I knew,
• 1:29:47
  Speaker 2: Like that I tolerated it because that's really all I understood.
• 1:29:52
  Speaker 2: So you have the sense that Maryel hangs out with
• 1:29:56
  Speaker 2: these women who are outwardly cruel to her be because
• 1:30:01
  Speaker 2: she has just become accustomed to this abuse from her father,
• 1:30:06
  Speaker 2: and then she starts to I mean, it takes her
• 1:30:10
  Speaker 2: a little while to liberate herself from it. But this
• 1:30:12
  Speaker 2: friendship with Rhonda is, like you said, like the catalyst
• 1:30:16
  Speaker 2: that gets her on a path of liberation. And that's
• 1:30:22
  Speaker 2: like the core, what like the core of the movie
• 1:30:25
  Speaker 2: as far as like I read it, it is like, yeah,
• 1:30:29
  Speaker 2: you know, as far as like Muriel's arc, I wanted
• 1:30:32
  Speaker 2: to get into that a little bit because yeah, again,
• 1:30:36
  Speaker 2: Muriel starts out as this person who's lying to people,
• 1:30:42
  Speaker 2: she's stealing dresses, she's trying to fit in with this
• 1:30:47
  Speaker 2: crowd who doesn't want her. She ends up marrying a
• 1:30:51
  Speaker 2: guy who seems repulsed by her, just so she can
• 1:30:54
  Speaker 2: say she's gotten married. She's like basically living a false life. Meanwhile,
• 1:30:59
  Speaker 2: throughout this she has made one actual friend in Ronda.
• 1:31:04
  Speaker 2: She's the one person in Mariel's life aside from her mom,
• 1:31:08
  Speaker 2: who accepts Mariel for who she is. Ronda doesn't tolerate
• 1:31:13
  Speaker 2: Maryel being like dishonest and phony, and we see her
• 1:31:16
  Speaker 2: call Maryel out for that, But when she's being an honest,
• 1:31:21
  Speaker 2: genuine person, Ronda loves Mariel for who she is. But
• 1:31:26
  Speaker 2: when you know Ronda needs her the most, Mariel abandons
• 1:31:30
  Speaker 2: her in favor of this wedding and all the attention
• 1:31:33
  Speaker 2: she's getting, Yeah, because she's finally living out this fantasy.
• 1:31:38
  Speaker 2: And then Mariel's arc culminates partly because she sees how
• 1:31:43
  Speaker 2: horrible her father is being at her mother's funeral. She
• 1:31:47
  Speaker 2: realizes that she's living this sham life that she's been,
• 1:31:52
  Speaker 2: you know, as disingenuous as her shitty father. And then
• 1:31:57
  Speaker 2: she leaves it all behind to reunite with which is
• 1:32:00
  Speaker 2: like a very interesting story and not one that you
• 1:32:04
  Speaker 2: generally see because one it shows a woman who's a
• 1:32:09
  Speaker 2: mess in a way that again just feels authentic to
• 1:32:14
  Speaker 2: real life.
• 1:32:14
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's not misogynists. It's just like you are given
• 1:32:17
  Speaker 3: all the information that you need to understand, however misguided
• 1:32:24
  Speaker 3: and occasionally very selfish. What Muriel is doing is you
• 1:32:28
  Speaker 3: understand where it's coming from, and like you're rooting for
• 1:32:31
  Speaker 3: her to do better, and I get It's like, I
• 1:32:34
  Speaker 3: kind of love how the movie teases you with a
• 1:32:36
  Speaker 3: potentially really shitty ending right at the end where like
• 1:32:40
  Speaker 3: she opens the church door and her fake husband's there
• 1:32:44
  Speaker 3: and he maybe likes her now, but and I think again,
• 1:32:48
  Speaker 3: like a lesser movie would be like, oh, they're gonna
• 1:32:52
  Speaker 3: fall in love. But then she but it's like the
• 1:32:55
  Speaker 3: strongest she ever is that she's like I don't love
• 1:32:58
  Speaker 3: you like I Yeah, it's and you're just like woo.
• 1:33:03
  Speaker 3: And he's like I don't love you either, but you
• 1:33:07
  Speaker 3: could live with me, and she's like no.
• 1:33:09
  Speaker 2: And serves more than that.
• 1:33:11
  Speaker 3: I really love that moment. Yeah, that like she's able
• 1:33:16
  Speaker 3: to see I don't know. I mean, God, may everyone
• 1:33:21
  Speaker 3: be so lucky to realize in their early twenties that
• 1:33:23
  Speaker 3: they're repeating the mistakes of their parents, and I was like, yeah,
• 1:33:28
  Speaker 3: that's in some ways it is a fantasy film, but I'm.
• 1:33:32
  Speaker 2: Sure some people have managed to do it.
• 1:33:35
  Speaker 3: Yeah, but I mean, yeah, her friendship with Ronda is
• 1:33:37
  Speaker 3: so life changing and so like life affirming and yeah.
• 1:33:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah right, because like we see Maryel being a mess
• 1:33:46
  Speaker 2: for the bulk of the movie, but it's very different
• 1:33:50
  Speaker 2: from that like rom com version, like Hollywood rom conversion
• 1:33:54
  Speaker 2: of a woman who's a mess quote unquote, because that
• 1:33:58
  Speaker 2: always feels very cart tony and trophy, and it's like
• 1:34:01
  Speaker 2: she's a mess because she's single and she works too
• 1:34:07
  Speaker 2: much at her magazine job and that's why she's single,
• 1:34:11
  Speaker 2: and she just needs a boyfriend to cure her messiness.
• 1:34:14
  Speaker 2: And we don't get any of that with the Murial character.
• 1:34:18
  Speaker 2: And that's another thing that's so interesting about this movie
• 1:34:21
  Speaker 2: because so many movies from this era that central woman
• 1:34:24
  Speaker 2: as a protagonist are about her finding hetero love and
• 1:34:28
  Speaker 2: that being the thing that fulfills her. But this movie
• 1:34:32
  Speaker 2: is about her personal growth and her solid friendship or
• 1:34:37
  Speaker 2: like perhaps because of a solid friendship with another woman
• 1:34:42
  Speaker 2: who supports her and cares for her.
• 1:34:44
  Speaker 3: And I love that.
• 1:34:46
  Speaker 2: It's a great.
• 1:34:46
  Speaker 3: Movie exactly exactly I mean, and also that I mean
• 1:34:50
  Speaker 3: all of us fakes. Like the title, the title is
• 1:34:53
  Speaker 3: basically a joke where you know, she becomes I mean,
• 1:34:57
  Speaker 3: she becomes disabused of all of these things because is
• 1:35:00
  Speaker 3: basically a coming of age movie of everything that she's
• 1:35:03
  Speaker 3: told is going to like make her the right kind
• 1:35:06
  Speaker 3: of person, which at the beginning of the movie she
• 1:35:08
  Speaker 3: so badly wants to be, to the point that she's
• 1:35:11
  Speaker 3: being very or she's been conditioned. I don't want to
• 1:35:14
  Speaker 3: put it all on her, but like she's being very
• 1:35:16
  Speaker 3: self destructive in pursuit of being anybody but herself, and
• 1:35:21
  Speaker 3: marriage is the ultimate way to become a different person
• 1:35:26
  Speaker 3: in the way that she's been socially conditioned, which still
• 1:35:29
  Speaker 3: happens right, And it's like she's at her saddest when
• 1:35:32
  Speaker 3: she's trying on wedding dresses, she's at her least authentic
• 1:35:38
  Speaker 3: when she's getting married, and at her kind of cruelest
• 1:35:43
  Speaker 3: to the people in her life. She blows off her mom,
• 1:35:45
  Speaker 3: she ignores Rhonda like and then does this sort of
• 1:35:49
  Speaker 3: really condescending like, oh no, I don't want you to
• 1:35:52
  Speaker 3: hang out with us, I got you a plane ticket,
• 1:35:54
  Speaker 3: and then she's like fuck you Like, so she's at
• 1:35:57
  Speaker 3: her the sort of like she's at her worst and
• 1:36:00
  Speaker 3: she's living out her fantasy. Yeah, and I you know,
• 1:36:03
  Speaker 3: it's it's a little broad, but it also it just
• 1:36:06
  Speaker 3: like it works so well in the story of like,
• 1:36:09
  Speaker 3: you know, maybe Muriel will get married someday, but not
• 1:36:12
  Speaker 3: for the reasons that she did the first time, because
• 1:36:15
  Speaker 3: it seems like she, you know, like really is at
• 1:36:17
  Speaker 3: least well on her way to understanding that that is.
• 1:36:21
  Speaker 3: And I think unfortunately, through a lot of tragedy and
• 1:36:24
  Speaker 3: seeing how tremendously depressed her mother was until the end
• 1:36:29
  Speaker 3: of her life and just knowing that, like she had
• 1:36:33
  Speaker 3: to move forward another way to do right by herself
• 1:36:36
  Speaker 3: and honestly, I think, to some extent do right by
• 1:36:40
  Speaker 3: her mom's memory too. I think that it is like
• 1:36:45
  Speaker 3: I feel like where they attribute to her mom to
• 1:36:49
  Speaker 3: you know, liberate herself from this dynamic that her mom
• 1:36:53
  Speaker 3: was trapped in. And then Rhonda, I just love this
• 1:36:59
  Speaker 3: broad She's so great. But let let's talk let's talk
• 1:37:03
  Speaker 3: about rod. I mean she I don't know, it is
• 1:37:07
  Speaker 3: really I love seeing friends become friends really fast in
• 1:37:10
  Speaker 3: a convincing way. I love just all of it. And
• 1:37:13
  Speaker 3: they're like, Yep, we're gonna move in together. We're best
• 1:37:15
  Speaker 3: friends now, blah blah blah. She's really horny. She's having
• 1:37:19
  Speaker 3: three ways with sailor American sailors. Whatever. But let's talk
• 1:37:26
  Speaker 3: about Yeah, this is a character who is able bodies
• 1:37:30
  Speaker 3: at the beginning of the movie and is disabled at
• 1:37:34
  Speaker 3: the end of the movie. She's using a wheelchair permanently, which, yeah,
• 1:37:39
  Speaker 3: let's let's talk about it.
• 1:37:42
  Speaker 2: I mean, this one's a little trickier than our than
• 1:37:45
  Speaker 2: most of our conversations surrounding disability, because it's often a
• 1:37:50
  Speaker 2: character who from the moment we see them on screen
• 1:37:55
  Speaker 2: till the end of the movie, they are disabled the
• 1:38:00
  Speaker 2: entire span.
• 1:38:01
  Speaker 3: Mccaulluff Time, macaulay Culkin.
• 1:38:03
  Speaker 2: And Saved right is my go to example. Yeah, right,
• 1:38:08
  Speaker 2: played by an able bodied actor, which is often the case,
• 1:38:13
  Speaker 2: which is what warrants the criticism. In this case, it's
• 1:38:17
  Speaker 2: a little trickier because she is able bodied for i'd say,
• 1:38:23
  Speaker 2: like the first half of the time we see her
• 1:38:26
  Speaker 2: on screen, so it makes the casting trickier. I'm inclined
• 1:38:34
  Speaker 2: to give this a little bit of a pass, or
• 1:38:36
  Speaker 2: at least some leeway because of the circumstances of her
• 1:38:41
  Speaker 2: being an able bodied character for part of it. But
• 1:38:45
  Speaker 2: it's tricky.
• 1:38:47
  Speaker 3: It's tricky. I am inclined to agree with you. I
• 1:38:49
  Speaker 3: would also like, I would love to hear what our
• 1:38:53
  Speaker 3: disabled listeners feel about this character, because obviously weird like
• 1:38:58
  Speaker 3: not the be all and opinion of this. Of course,
• 1:39:02
  Speaker 3: I don't feel qualified to make the call, but I
• 1:39:04
  Speaker 3: think as as far as how Ronda is written, I
• 1:39:07
  Speaker 3: was like, particularly for nineteen ninety four, pretty impressed with Again,
• 1:39:11
  Speaker 3: it seems to push back on some popular tropes around disability,
• 1:39:17
  Speaker 3: where you know, at the beginning, when I mean just
• 1:39:21
  Speaker 3: the medical frustration that we've both experienced versions of of,
• 1:39:26
  Speaker 3: you know, being talked to either like you're a baby
• 1:39:29
  Speaker 3: or a scientist by a doctor and nothing in between.
• 1:39:33
  Speaker 3: And you know, and and Ronda again, because she's just
• 1:39:37
  Speaker 3: a very blunt person. You know, Muriel's like, what is
• 1:39:40
  Speaker 3: he saying? She's like, he's saying, I'm like fucked but
• 1:39:43
  Speaker 3: he can't say that, you know, and seeing her frustrations,
• 1:39:47
  Speaker 3: and you know, Muriel's saying something that is coming from
• 1:39:50
  Speaker 3: a good place, but it's something we hear a lot
• 1:39:51
  Speaker 3: around disability of like no, Ronda you're going to walk,
• 1:39:55
  Speaker 3: You're going to walk again, which is her encouraging Ronda
• 1:39:58
  Speaker 3: and doesn't want her to lose hope, which is totally fair,
• 1:40:02
  Speaker 3: but I think also buys into this idea that an
• 1:40:06
  Speaker 3: able bodied life is the only one worth having or
• 1:40:11
  Speaker 3: the only one to strive towards, even though it's not
• 1:40:15
  Speaker 3: you know addressed explicitly you Know Ronda as time when
• 1:40:19
  Speaker 3: we flash forward, like, Ronda is understandably tremendously frustrated and
• 1:40:24
  Speaker 3: sad when she loses the use of her legs and
• 1:40:28
  Speaker 3: struggles with it, but it seems like she's ultimately more
• 1:40:32
  Speaker 3: frustrated that she has to move home than anything else.
• 1:40:35
  Speaker 3: And by the time we see Ronda at Maryelle's wedding,
• 1:40:41
  Speaker 3: she seems like comfortable in her wheel. It's just how
• 1:40:45
  Speaker 3: other people talk to her and treat her that's the problem.
• 1:40:48
  Speaker 3: Where it seems like, when she gets past the initial
• 1:40:51
  Speaker 3: shock and adjustment of living with a disability, that it's
• 1:40:57
  Speaker 3: mainly other people who are the problem. We see it
• 1:40:59
  Speaker 3: in a so much casual ableism that is explicit in
• 1:41:04
  Speaker 3: the movie. It's like played for laughs to make the
• 1:41:07
  Speaker 3: person doing it look bad because it's the ladies in
• 1:41:12
  Speaker 3: the dress shop where oh my god, what was the
• 1:41:15
  Speaker 3: and like Ronda's like, get the fuck out of my way,
• 1:41:19
  Speaker 3: where she said you just can't come in here and
• 1:41:20
  Speaker 3: threaten brides, I don't care how unfortunate you are, and
• 1:41:23
  Speaker 3: Ronda says fuck you, which is the only response to
• 1:41:27
  Speaker 3: that sentence. There's a moment with Ronda's mother where Ronda's like,
• 1:41:32
  Speaker 3: I don't want to sit in the front of the
• 1:41:34
  Speaker 3: wedding because she doesn't really want to be there is
• 1:41:37
  Speaker 3: the reason. But you know, Ronda's mom is very casually like, well, good,
• 1:41:41
  Speaker 3: you won't be in anyone's way. And then I think
• 1:41:44
  Speaker 3: the most over the top example is the evil Friends
• 1:41:49
  Speaker 3: talking to her like she has died and her being like,
• 1:41:53
  Speaker 3: I'm not ditch Cheryl.
• 1:41:55
  Speaker 2: You're like right, because one of them says something like
• 1:41:57
  Speaker 2: you were so full of life and it's like I
• 1:41:59
  Speaker 2: still what am here?
• 1:42:01
  Speaker 3: Right?
• 1:42:01
  Speaker 2: Just because I'm disabled now doesn't change that.
• 1:42:05
  Speaker 3: Yeah, And she's also just she's also telling them that
• 1:42:08
  Speaker 3: she's beat cancer, which is like amazing, Like but yeah.
• 1:42:13
  Speaker 3: We see her encounter a lot of like quiet and
• 1:42:17
  Speaker 3: loud ableism throughout the movie, and it's always pushed back
• 1:42:22
  Speaker 3: on and again it's just like, I'm sure that it
• 1:42:27
  Speaker 3: is not a perfect depiction by any means, but I
• 1:42:31
  Speaker 3: appreciated that it was even acknowledged, because I feel like
• 1:42:35
  Speaker 3: so many movies just perpetuate ableism and don't acknowledge that,
• 1:42:39
  Speaker 3: like this is a problem that able bodied people don't
• 1:42:44
  Speaker 3: know how to talk to anybody who isn't like them.
• 1:42:48
  Speaker 2: Like totally. Yeah, I think for like a movie from
• 1:42:53
  Speaker 2: the mid nineties, it does surprisingly well in that regard.
• 1:42:59
  Speaker 2: This is a topic which we can, you know, move
• 1:43:02
  Speaker 2: on to or address later. But I was kind of
• 1:43:05
  Speaker 2: reminded the same way that you know, characters are hurling
• 1:43:09
  Speaker 2: ablest macro or micro aggressions at Rhonda. There are examples
• 1:43:16
  Speaker 2: of white characters committing racist aggressions in a way that
• 1:43:23
  Speaker 2: the movie tends to seem to present it as like,
• 1:43:27
  Speaker 2: look at this foolish person saying this foolish thing. But
• 1:43:31
  Speaker 2: at the same time, the movie has a cast of
• 1:43:35
  Speaker 2: almost exclusively white people and certainly only gives interiority to
• 1:43:39
  Speaker 2: the white characters, right, so it kind of undermines the
• 1:43:45
  Speaker 2: spotlight on oh, look how foolish this racist person is.
• 1:43:50
  Speaker 2: But yeah, there's like there's yeah, I don't want to
• 1:43:52
  Speaker 2: get too specific, because some of them are really gross, but.
• 1:43:55
  Speaker 3: It's mostly anti Asian racism. Yeah, I was noticing a
• 1:43:59
  Speaker 3: lot of anti a racism and also anti Indigenous racism.
• 1:44:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah right, because there's there's a reference to Bill doing
• 1:44:06
  Speaker 2: a real estate development project on land that Aboriginal people
• 1:44:11
  Speaker 2: had been living on and those Indigenous people were displaced
• 1:44:15
  Speaker 2: so that a resort or something could be built, and
• 1:44:18
  Speaker 2: then Bill is talking about this and like carrying on
• 1:44:21
  Speaker 2: as though I deserve recognition for the great work I
• 1:44:25
  Speaker 2: did to build this you know, development, and it's just
• 1:44:30
  Speaker 2: like completely dismissing the you know, the violence and displacement
• 1:44:34
  Speaker 2: toward the Aboriginal people who we don't see on screen
• 1:44:37
  Speaker 2: or never meet any Aboriginal people in this movie. So
• 1:44:42
  Speaker 2: it's we do.
• 1:44:43
  Speaker 3: Meet Aboriginal people in the other movie that stars that
• 1:44:46
  Speaker 3: actor that came out that year.
• 1:44:49
  Speaker 2: But yes, which we discussed and you can go back, and.
• 1:44:53
  Speaker 3: Also has its own problems. Yeah, but yeah, no, I
• 1:44:56
  Speaker 3: felt like, you know, the reason for me, and again
• 1:45:01
  Speaker 3: it's not for me to make this call, but part
• 1:45:04
  Speaker 3: of the reason that I didn't find the movie to
• 1:45:07
  Speaker 3: be tremendously ablest is because we have a disabled character
• 1:45:11
  Speaker 3: who we love and who pushes back against the ableism
• 1:45:18
  Speaker 3: and like loves and accepts herself. It's the circumstance she's
• 1:45:22
  Speaker 3: frustrated with right, but with the it seems like they're
• 1:45:25
  Speaker 3: trying to go for a similar thing. But it's like,
• 1:45:28
  Speaker 3: if your cast is all white excepting very passing, you know, interactions,
• 1:45:34
  Speaker 3: then those jokes are not gonna land, at least for us,
• 1:45:39
  Speaker 3: not particularly well, because there's no one there to push
• 1:45:43
  Speaker 3: back on it. So it's just like, haha, they are racist,
• 1:45:47
  Speaker 3: which is not a particularly effective joke.
• 1:45:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree.
• 1:45:52
  Speaker 3: It's like yeah, it's like, you know, you can say, well,
• 1:45:55
  Speaker 3: we hate those characters and this is just another reason
• 1:45:57
  Speaker 3: to hate them, but it's like, well, we already hated them. Again.
• 1:46:00
  Speaker 3: It's like, if you want to go there, if that's
• 1:46:02
  Speaker 3: the route you want to go, don't only cast white
• 1:46:05
  Speaker 3: people because it's like it's the racism in the room
• 1:46:09
  Speaker 3: with us kind of vibe.
• 1:46:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah for sure, not.
• 1:46:11
  Speaker 3: To say that. I mean, you know, I'm not accusing
• 1:46:14
  Speaker 3: the director of being racist. I'm just like, you need
• 1:46:18
  Speaker 3: representation of more than white people obviously, but also like
• 1:46:24
  Speaker 3: those jokes aren't going to land in an all white cast,
• 1:46:28
  Speaker 3: and it's like silly to expect them.
• 1:46:30
  Speaker 2: To, right to the point where you're not even sure
• 1:46:34
  Speaker 2: what the intent was with those jokes. It's like, is
• 1:46:37
  Speaker 2: it to call out the white people for being racist?
• 1:46:40
  Speaker 2: Or are we supposed to be laughing along with the joke?
• 1:46:43
  Speaker 2: Because the movie doesn't make that super super clear.
• 1:46:46
  Speaker 3: In nineteen ninety four, I don't know what the answer is.
• 1:46:49
  Speaker 3: Anyone's guessed, right, So yeah, no, I totally agree with you,
• 1:46:53
  Speaker 3: And it's that's unfortunate because I think that, like by
• 1:46:58
  Speaker 3: writing Rhonda's Care so thoughtfully, that this movie is able
• 1:47:04
  Speaker 3: to push back on a lot of ablest tropes, So
• 1:47:07
  Speaker 3: it's unfortunate that it sort of just plays into lazier
• 1:47:11
  Speaker 3: tropes around racism.
• 1:47:15
  Speaker 2: Also wanted to talk about the body shaming and fat
• 1:47:19
  Speaker 2: shaming that particularly Muriel's character is subjected to different family
• 1:47:28
  Speaker 2: members and friends of hers or former friends fat shame her.
• 1:47:34
  Speaker 2: But then you also learn that Tony collect gained weight
• 1:47:38
  Speaker 2: for the role, and not that I don't want Tony
• 1:47:41
  Speaker 2: Collette to get roles, especially starmaking roles like this, but
• 1:47:46
  Speaker 2: productions throughout history have had a bad habit of not
• 1:47:51
  Speaker 2: casting fat actors or just actors of varying body sizes.
• 1:47:57
  Speaker 2: And instead either casting an actor and then requiring that
• 1:48:03
  Speaker 2: they gain weight or putting them in a fat suit.
• 1:48:06
  Speaker 3: Which also feels I mean what I mean, We unfortunately
• 1:48:11
  Speaker 3: don't need to go back very far in movie history
• 1:48:14
  Speaker 3: because this still very much happens. It was a lot
• 1:48:17
  Speaker 3: of the discourse surrounding the Whale, which one Brendan Fraser
• 1:48:21
  Speaker 3: a fucking oscar. It's I don't know, I mean, like
• 1:48:24
  Speaker 3: we've had this conversation on the show before, but I
• 1:48:26
  Speaker 3: was disappointed to learn that. Not shocked given the nineteen
• 1:48:31
  Speaker 3: ninety four of it, all right, but certainly disappointed because
• 1:48:35
  Speaker 3: it's just like Tony Klette is tremendously talented, so are
• 1:48:40
  Speaker 3: actors that aren't rail Thinn. You know, like, if this
• 1:48:46
  Speaker 3: is canon to this character who we love, cast accordingly,
• 1:48:51
  Speaker 3: you know, it's.
• 1:48:52
  Speaker 2: Right, there are available actors of all sizes, and if
• 1:48:58
  Speaker 2: the role requires an actor to be a certain size,
• 1:49:02
  Speaker 2: there's already an actor who's that exact size that could
• 1:49:07
  Speaker 2: have been cast without requiring that they make any changes
• 1:49:11
  Speaker 2: to their body.
• 1:49:12
  Speaker 3: Absolutely, And it's it's so wild because it's just like,
• 1:49:17
  Speaker 3: but although I guess you couldn't make a movie in
• 1:49:20
  Speaker 3: nineteen ninety four in Australia without this guy Bill, so
• 1:49:25
  Speaker 3: Bill to be there's only like sometimes when you see
• 1:49:28
  Speaker 3: Australian movies, I'm like, are there ten working actors in
• 1:49:31
  Speaker 3: this country? Like what is going on? Bill is in
• 1:49:35
  Speaker 3: all of them? That's so wild?
• 1:49:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah it's it's I mean, and good good.
• 1:49:40
  Speaker 3: For him, but yeah no. But I'm glad that you
• 1:49:44
  Speaker 3: pointed that out because I was also like, I need
• 1:49:47
  Speaker 3: to do more research, and then the research made me
• 1:49:50
  Speaker 3: sad many such cases. Let me see. That's like, I
• 1:49:59
  Speaker 3: think most.
• 1:50:00
  Speaker 2: Of what I had I didn't have much else. We
• 1:50:01
  Speaker 2: covered a lot of stuff during the recap. I think
• 1:50:03
  Speaker 2: the last thing that I wanted to just include was
• 1:50:06
  Speaker 2: a quote from a piece from The Guardian by an
• 1:50:11
  Speaker 2: Australian writer named Karen Pickering, who wrote kind of like
• 1:50:17
  Speaker 2: a retrospective review in twenty seventeen about this movie entitled
• 1:50:22
  Speaker 2: Mauriel's Wedding is a feminist masterpiece and more relevant than ever.
• 1:50:28
  Speaker 2: She doesn't go quite as like intersectional as our discussion
• 1:50:33
  Speaker 2: has been, but she does point out a lot of
• 1:50:35
  Speaker 2: the positives which I tended to agree with. So I'll
• 1:50:38
  Speaker 2: just share a few quick paragraphs from this quote. Lots
• 1:50:43
  Speaker 2: of little moments resonate with me as a feminist observer.
• 1:50:46
  Speaker 2: Rhnda is totally and unapologetically sex positive, and when her
• 1:50:51
  Speaker 2: casual sex partners think a guy is taking advantage of Maryel,
• 1:50:54
  Speaker 2: they intervene on her. Behalf. Bryce is an example of gentle, respectful,
• 1:50:59
  Speaker 2: and war masculinity, which you could maybe because of how
• 1:51:03
  Speaker 2: strong he comes on you could maybe disagree with that,
• 1:51:05
  Speaker 2: but anyway, Yeah, well, David is positively influenced in this
• 1:51:09
  Speaker 2: direction by Mauriel. Also maybe up for debate. Undoubtedly, patriarchy
• 1:51:15
  Speaker 2: is the decisive factor in creating Muriel's reprehensible dad, in
• 1:51:19
  Speaker 2: the behavior of her hapless siblings, in the power differential
• 1:51:23
  Speaker 2: between her mother and father, and even in the despicable
• 1:51:26
  Speaker 2: deirdrech Chambers just a sad woman in a bad man's world.
• 1:51:31
  Speaker 3: I guess that we didn't really talk about Deirdre, but
• 1:51:33
  Speaker 3: I don't have that much to say other than it
• 1:51:35
  Speaker 3: seems like she is coded as like, here's a woman
• 1:51:39
  Speaker 3: who will step on anyone to achieve some notoriety or comfort,
• 1:51:46
  Speaker 3: such as you know, participating in MLMs. And I mean also,
• 1:51:51
  Speaker 3: oh oh, I wanted to bring this up in the
• 1:51:52
  Speaker 3: conversation about Muriel's mother about Betty what Deirdre says about
• 1:51:58
  Speaker 3: her towards the end of the movie where you know,
• 1:52:01
  Speaker 3: Deirdre says again, just because Betty, even from beyond the grave,
• 1:52:05
  Speaker 3: is being punished by her piece of shit ex husband
• 1:52:09
  Speaker 3: says like, oh, you know, this is gonna make Bill
• 1:52:13
  Speaker 3: look a lot more sympathetic in the press, so at
• 1:52:16
  Speaker 3: least her life had a purpose. And I was like,
• 1:52:19
  Speaker 3: you fucking it, Like I just oh, I like my
• 1:52:25
  Speaker 3: blood was. I don't know how someone said that about
• 1:52:29
  Speaker 3: my mom and our relationships up and down, but like
• 1:52:33
  Speaker 3: I would hit somewhat. That's like, oh my god, how
• 1:52:37
  Speaker 3: did Deirdre not take one to the fucking nose on that?
• 1:52:40
  Speaker 2: That was like, uh, I don't but.
• 1:52:45
  Speaker 3: I respect what the what the writer's saying, and it's
• 1:52:47
  Speaker 3: true and it is I'm sure it's like canonically true,
• 1:52:49
  Speaker 3: but I'm like, I know, I hate that bitch. I
• 1:52:52
  Speaker 3: hate that bitch.
• 1:52:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah, no, she's awful. Just to finish out this quote,
• 1:52:56
  Speaker 2: the writer goes on to say Bill has exemplifies a
• 1:52:59
  Speaker 2: particularly Australian strain of toxic masculinity. He's matro corrupt, racist,
• 1:53:05
  Speaker 2: cruel to his children, and wholly abusive to his poor wife.
• 1:53:09
  Speaker 2: The most likable he ever gets is when he's grudgingly
• 1:53:12
  Speaker 2: impressed by Muriel giving him the what for before she leaves.
• 1:53:18
  Speaker 2: I don't know if that's an Australian expression, but I
• 1:53:20
  Speaker 2: don't know what the what for?
• 1:53:21
  Speaker 3: The what for? I think it's just like standing up
• 1:53:24
  Speaker 3: to him kind of.
• 1:53:25
  Speaker 2: That makes sense finally, And how can we understand her beautiful,
• 1:53:30
  Speaker 2: tragic mom without factoring in the misogyny and sexism that's
• 1:53:34
  Speaker 2: kept her in this home full of people who treat
• 1:53:36
  Speaker 2: her so badly. Yeah, but in Mariel's case, it's also
• 1:53:40
  Speaker 2: a patriarchal fantasy that keeps her alive, the dream that
• 1:53:44
  Speaker 2: one day she'll be a success because someone will want
• 1:53:47
  Speaker 2: to marry her unquote. And yeah, I think that's the
• 1:53:51
  Speaker 2: last thing I wanted to just touch a little bit
• 1:53:53
  Speaker 2: more on as far as this idea of And Mauriel's
• 1:53:58
  Speaker 2: not alone in this. I've met people throughout my life
• 1:54:02
  Speaker 2: were who cared more about getting married than who they married,
• 1:54:09
  Speaker 2: or like everything was focused on the wedding. The wedding's
• 1:54:14
  Speaker 2: the happiest day of your life, and it's like, will
• 1:54:16
  Speaker 2: what about the relationship after that?
• 1:54:19
  Speaker 3: Or like, but what I really appreciate about this movie
• 1:54:23
  Speaker 3: is that I think that a lot of even like
• 1:54:27
  Speaker 3: movies that are ostensibly feminist, and not to say that
• 1:54:31
  Speaker 3: this doesn't happen, because sure it does. Some people are
• 1:54:34
  Speaker 3: simply vapid, right, Like it happens across the gender spectrum.
• 1:54:40
  Speaker 3: But I think that sometimes when particularly a woman is
• 1:54:46
  Speaker 3: perceiving marriage this way, movies that sort of taut themselves
• 1:54:50
  Speaker 3: and pat themselves on the back for their own feminism
• 1:54:52
  Speaker 3: are like, look at this fucking loser who's not like
• 1:54:56
  Speaker 3: cool and feminist, like the main character who has never
• 1:55:00
  Speaker 3: made a mistake in response to patriarchy. Like it's like,
• 1:55:04
  Speaker 3: what makes me really appreciate Muriel even more is that,
• 1:55:09
  Speaker 3: like she's drank the kool aid, and a lot of
• 1:55:12
  Speaker 3: people drink the kool aid, and some people even get
• 1:55:15
  Speaker 3: drink the kool aid and get married and then realize fuck.
• 1:55:19
  Speaker 3: I mean, it's it's really hard to you know, against
• 1:55:23
  Speaker 3: a culture that is still this adamant about merit for sure,
• 1:55:29
  Speaker 3: and then also I mean whatever, there's We've talked about
• 1:55:32
  Speaker 3: marriage plenty on the show. But I just really appreciated
• 1:55:34
  Speaker 3: and it felt rare that, you know, I think when
• 1:55:37
  Speaker 3: we see movies that surround women and weddings. Very often
• 1:55:42
  Speaker 3: it's just like she's getting married. It's like done with
• 1:55:44
  Speaker 3: the assumption. That's like, and of course we know this
• 1:55:46
  Speaker 3: is the most important day of her life, and blah blah,
• 1:55:48
  Speaker 3: blah blah. It's just like assuming that you have drank
• 1:55:50
  Speaker 3: the kool aid. And then there's movies that I think
• 1:55:53
  Speaker 3: are like corny bad twenty tens feminism, that are like
• 1:55:58
  Speaker 3: any woman who wants to get married is an agent
• 1:56:02
  Speaker 3: of the patriarchy, where it's like the truth is always
• 1:56:06
  Speaker 3: going to be somewhere in the middle there. And with Muriel,
• 1:56:08
  Speaker 3: it's like she's being disabused of this really patriarchal structure
• 1:56:13
  Speaker 3: that is all she knows. And it's not until she
• 1:56:16
  Speaker 3: escapes and lives a little bit and connects with someone
• 1:56:21
  Speaker 3: on a deeper level through Ronda, that she's able to realize,
• 1:56:25
  Speaker 3: like and you know, until she literally gets what she wants.
• 1:56:28
  Speaker 3: And it's horrible that she's like, well, I'm gonna get
• 1:56:32
  Speaker 3: out while i can, and you know, and maybe she
• 1:56:35
  Speaker 3: will find love down the line, we'll get married, maybe
• 1:56:38
  Speaker 3: she won't. But it's just like it's cool to see
• 1:56:40
  Speaker 3: someone be disabused of that and still have the movie
• 1:56:43
  Speaker 3: be like wholy on their side, because it's a journey
• 1:56:47
  Speaker 3: a lot of people have.
• 1:56:48
  Speaker 2: To go on, definitely, And yeah, I don't I don't
• 1:56:50
  Speaker 2: blame people for having been conditioned to like disproportionately value
• 1:56:58
  Speaker 2: getting married or just like the idea of getting married
• 1:57:02
  Speaker 2: or the idea of having a wedding, because there's an entire,
• 1:57:06
  Speaker 2: you know, bazillion dollar industry built around that, there's and
• 1:57:11
  Speaker 2: not for nothing, we love going to weddings and as
• 1:57:14
  Speaker 2: to your wedding, but yeah, I mean so much of
• 1:57:17
  Speaker 2: patriarchy does condition people, and especially women to strongly value
• 1:57:24
  Speaker 2: the idea of getting married and not even like not
• 1:57:30
  Speaker 2: like having a marriage and having a meaningful relationship with
• 1:57:33
  Speaker 2: with a companion. It's just like you gotta get married.
• 1:57:39
  Speaker 2: The subtext, according to the patriarchy is like become.
• 1:57:42
  Speaker 3: A man's property, right, But it's like and then and
• 1:57:47
  Speaker 3: then the whole you know lie the eresults in these
• 1:57:52
  Speaker 3: like compet structure is that as a woman, you will
• 1:57:57
  Speaker 3: become a more the most complete version of yourself exactly
• 1:58:00
  Speaker 3: when you get married to a man. And so I
• 1:58:03
  Speaker 3: think with every with every feminist movement, that the conception
• 1:58:09
  Speaker 3: of marriage has been sort of adjusted or like altered
• 1:58:13
  Speaker 3: by the right to make this very conservative notion Syne.
• 1:58:18
  Speaker 3: And I mean, I'm fucking getting married next year, Like
• 1:58:21
  Speaker 3: you have a fiance. I have a fiance, but it's
• 1:58:23
  Speaker 3: because I simply really want to marry, like I'm excited
• 1:58:27
  Speaker 3: about it, which is like, then do it. But yeah,
• 1:58:31
  Speaker 3: I feel like people the way that people sell, particularly
• 1:58:35
  Speaker 3: young women on marriage by praying on their self esteem
• 1:58:38
  Speaker 3: is and during like second wave feminism of like, no,
• 1:58:43
  Speaker 3: actually being married is a way to be self actualized.
• 1:58:47
  Speaker 3: You're like, shut the fuck up, dude, Like there, you know,
• 1:58:52
  Speaker 3: it's just interesting watching the news scams that people come
• 1:58:55
  Speaker 3: up with. But you know, Muriel sees through the matrix
• 1:58:59
  Speaker 3: at the end of the movie and realizes that friendship
• 1:59:03
  Speaker 3: is the true wedding or something.
• 1:59:07
  Speaker 2: No, if that's exactly it, And that's why I really
• 1:59:11
  Speaker 2: appreciate this movie again, Like, yes, she she has more
• 1:59:15
  Speaker 2: maturing to do. She you know, needs to learn how
• 1:59:21
  Speaker 2: to be a more honest person. But it's this caring,
• 1:59:27
  Speaker 2: supportive friendship with her friend Rhonda. I keep wanting to
• 1:59:31
  Speaker 2: call her Rodna. I don't even think that's a name.
• 1:59:35
  Speaker 2: That's a cool name, Rodna, It's Ronda I'm just having
• 1:59:40
  Speaker 2: a bit of a brain thing today. But Ronda is, Yeah,
• 1:59:48
  Speaker 2: the thing that she that Muriel needed to see the light.
• 1:59:53
  Speaker 2: I love it.
• 1:59:54
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and just seeing especially with I guess the last
• 1:59:57
  Speaker 3: thing I'll say about Rhonda and Uriel is that, you know, Ronda,
• 2:00:03
  Speaker 3: part of what draws them to each other is they
• 2:00:05
  Speaker 3: really admire each other and you know, and that even
• 2:00:09
  Speaker 3: after Muriel kind of exposes herself as like I've been
• 2:00:14
  Speaker 3: lying to you, Ronda's upset about it, she's hurt, but
• 2:00:18
  Speaker 3: it doesn't make her think Muriel isn't awesome. Yeah, and
• 2:00:24
  Speaker 3: that is like a true friend of like you know,
• 2:00:27
  Speaker 3: and and not everyone would would do that, and maybe
• 2:00:30
  Speaker 3: they would be right to write like that's a pretty
• 2:00:32
  Speaker 3: big lie. But she's like, okay, fine, so Tim Sims
• 2:00:36
  Speaker 3: wasn't real, You're still cool, like.
• 2:00:38
  Speaker 2: Because in that moment, Maryel explains why she made Tim
• 2:00:43
  Speaker 2: Simms up. She's like, exactly, I hate myself and if
• 2:00:47
  Speaker 2: I was marrying someone, I could be a different person
• 2:00:50
  Speaker 2: and I would love a different person, which like might
• 2:00:53
  Speaker 2: and probably wouldn't even be true.
• 2:00:54
  Speaker 3: Like no, I mean, well we learned that's not true
• 2:00:57
  Speaker 3: because she marries some guy and this miserable.
• 2:01:00
  Speaker 2: Right, so the way that she actually will love herself
• 2:01:05
  Speaker 2: has nothing to do with marriage or being with a
• 2:01:08
  Speaker 2: man or anything like that. She lays all this out
• 2:01:11
  Speaker 2: and Ronda she hears that. She sees that, and she's like,
• 2:01:16
  Speaker 2: this is still a person worthy of my friendship and
• 2:01:19
  Speaker 2: like probably needs my help. They need each other, They
• 2:01:23
  Speaker 2: need each other for sure.
• 2:01:26
  Speaker 3: I love them. I love them. This movie passes the
• 2:01:29
  Speaker 3: Bechdel test obviously a lot.
• 2:01:31
  Speaker 2: Yes, lots of different combinations of characters talking about all
• 2:01:35
  Speaker 2: kinds of stuff. There are discussions about men. Some of
• 2:01:37
  Speaker 2: them are made up. Oh does it pass the test
• 2:01:40
  Speaker 2: if you're talking about Tim Simms, who's not a real.
• 2:01:43
  Speaker 3: Person feminist icon timsons. We don't know how Tim Simms identifies.
• 2:01:48
  Speaker 3: We don't because Tim Sims is made up.
• 2:01:51
  Speaker 2: Well, Tim Sims is a cop, so he's.
• 2:01:54
  Speaker 3: See him, Tim Simms. I hate to hear it anyways, Okay, Yeah,
• 2:02:03
  Speaker 3: it passes a lot, And honestly, most of the interactions
• 2:02:06
  Speaker 3: about men are pretty anti men. It's yeah, I don't
• 2:02:12
  Speaker 3: think this movie has a very high opinion of men.
• 2:02:14
  Speaker 3: And that's why I and that's why I trust it.
• 2:02:17
  Speaker 2: Wow, Titanic, I don't.
• 2:02:19
  Speaker 3: Think if we've ever thrown that line in before, so
• 2:02:22
  Speaker 3: for your consideration, it doesn't make any sense. That's why
• 2:02:25
  Speaker 3: I trusted.
• 2:02:27
  Speaker 2: Did you catch my Summer Heights High reference from like
• 2:02:29
  Speaker 2: two hours ago?
• 2:02:30
  Speaker 3: Oh my god, the.
• 2:02:33
  Speaker 2: Curly haired beach yeah, may yeah, oh yeah, that's probably No,
• 2:02:38
  Speaker 2: that's a jama and that's not Summer High High briber raids.
• 2:02:41
  Speaker 3: I mix it up. Yeah, Jame meant a lot to me.
• 2:02:45
  Speaker 2: Well, I mean, same spelling, different pronunciation.
• 2:02:49
  Speaker 3: I think, so, just like there's an accent mark, I think.
• 2:02:54
  Speaker 3: But yeah, yeah, so it passes the vectels test handily. Yeah,
• 2:02:58
  Speaker 3: so but what about the one perfect metric, the nipple scale?
• 2:03:02
  Speaker 2: Oh, you mean our scale where we rate the movie
• 2:03:06
  Speaker 2: on a scale of zero to five nipples based on
• 2:03:10
  Speaker 2: looking at the movie through an intersectional feminist lens.
• 2:03:14
  Speaker 3: Why, yes, I do.
• 2:03:15
  Speaker 2: Well in that case, I'll give this. I'm like between
• 2:03:22
  Speaker 2: I want to see like a three and a half,
• 2:03:25
  Speaker 2: maybe edging toward a four. There's a lot that I
• 2:03:31
  Speaker 2: think this movie handles well. There's a few things that
• 2:03:34
  Speaker 2: I'm a little dicey on that I think are very
• 2:03:40
  Speaker 2: you know, criticism about how the movie handles like the
• 2:03:44
  Speaker 2: racist microaggressions that different characters hurl head people, and the
• 2:03:50
  Speaker 2: discussion around ableism and the discussion around body and body size,
• 2:03:57
  Speaker 2: those are a little iffier. But because this movie at
• 2:04:02
  Speaker 2: its core is about two women forming a friendship that
• 2:04:07
  Speaker 2: is just like sweet, and it's not the healthiest friendship
• 2:04:11
  Speaker 2: on account of Maurial lying a lot, but she learns
• 2:04:15
  Speaker 2: not to do that, but she's working on and that's
• 2:04:18
  Speaker 2: the thing too, Like there's so few movies about a
• 2:04:21
  Speaker 2: messy woman who's messy in a way that actually feels
• 2:04:24
  Speaker 2: like real life and that needs to learn and not
• 2:04:31
  Speaker 2: be dishonest, not be lying to people, et cetera, because
• 2:04:34
  Speaker 2: movies and society ever heard of it, well, except expect
• 2:04:41
  Speaker 2: women to be these perfect little angels who are not
• 2:04:43
  Speaker 2: allowed to misbehave in any way and who have to
• 2:04:46
  Speaker 2: just be born perfect. And we have very little tolerance
• 2:04:50
  Speaker 2: for messy women. And I love to see a movie
• 2:04:54
  Speaker 2: about a messy woman, But I also love to see
• 2:04:56
  Speaker 2: a movie about a messy woman growing, because messy people should,
• 2:05:00
  Speaker 2: you know, grow and learn, right, And that's what this
• 2:05:03
  Speaker 2: movie is all about. So I really appreciate it. And
• 2:05:06
  Speaker 2: I'll land on like three point seventy five nipples and
• 2:05:09
  Speaker 2: I'll distribute them between Tony Collette, the actor who plays Ronda,
• 2:05:16
  Speaker 2: Rachel Griffiths, and Tim Sims imaginary imaginary King.
• 2:05:26
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm gonna go three point seven five as well.
• 2:05:28
  Speaker 3: I agree, particularly with regards to the racism and asking
• 2:05:34
  Speaker 3: a I mean not Tony Kollett was not famous at
• 2:05:36
  Speaker 3: this time, but having an actor gain weight instead of simply.
• 2:05:39
  Speaker 2: Just casting an actor who's already the size of the character.
• 2:05:42
  Speaker 3: Yeah, basically everything else about this movie I was really
• 2:05:46
  Speaker 3: pleasantly surprised by. Like I was really blown away. It's like,
• 2:05:49
  Speaker 3: it's a really funny, memorable movie about the cycle of
• 2:05:55
  Speaker 3: trauma in families. And I still laughed so much and
• 2:06:01
  Speaker 3: you could never predict what's going to happen next in
• 2:06:04
  Speaker 3: this movie. I love Love Love just a story about yeah,
• 2:06:08
  Speaker 3: like being liberated through friendship but still being a messy
• 2:06:13
  Speaker 3: twenty one, twenty two year old, Like it just yeah,
• 2:06:15
  Speaker 3: she feels so real and the performances are amazing, and
• 2:06:21
  Speaker 3: I just feel like it's like this weird, awesome commentary
• 2:06:24
  Speaker 3: on it's the exact opposite of what the poster leads
• 2:06:27
  Speaker 3: you to believe, right, it's going to be And I
• 2:06:30
  Speaker 3: really love that I got gotten big time. This movie
• 2:06:34
  Speaker 3: got our asses because even the like, I mean, I'm
• 2:06:38
  Speaker 3: sort of wondering if they were trying to market it
• 2:06:41
  Speaker 3: as like, because this is kind of a hard sell
• 2:06:44
  Speaker 3: to your average rom com goer, to be like, it's
• 2:06:46
  Speaker 3: the most depressing thing you'll ever see. Prepare to not
• 2:06:49
  Speaker 3: feel escape from reality at all, because the poster says,
• 2:06:54
  Speaker 3: a comedy about a small town girl who didn't fit in,
• 2:06:57
  Speaker 3: but it's about to learn how to stand out. Uriel's wedding,
• 2:07:01
  Speaker 3: she's not just getting married, she's getting even I'm like,
• 2:07:04
  Speaker 3: that doesn't feel like the movie. I feel like they
• 2:07:06
  Speaker 3: were just trying to be like, it's a movie about
• 2:07:09
  Speaker 3: a wedding, go see it, just trick people into going
• 2:07:12
  Speaker 3: because it is a tricky sell. But I think it's awesome. Yes,
• 2:07:15
  Speaker 3: I'm gonna do three point seventy five nipples. I'm gonna
• 2:07:17
  Speaker 3: give them to Toni Collette. I'm gonna give one to
• 2:07:21
  Speaker 3: Jocelyn Moore and Linda House, who were Yeah, the two
• 2:07:24
  Speaker 3: producers of this movie were women. I'm gonna give one
• 2:07:26
  Speaker 3: to editor Jill Billcock, who also who's just an Australian legend,
• 2:07:32
  Speaker 3: also edited Strictly Ballroom Romeo Plus Juliet and Mulin Rouge
• 2:07:37
  Speaker 3: and Oh my God, Kate Blanchette, another Australian legend. She
• 2:07:41
  Speaker 3: also edited the Cate Blanchette Queen Elizabeth's movie Oh from
• 2:07:47
  Speaker 3: the nineties. So I'll give one to her and then
• 2:07:49
  Speaker 3: i'll give by last point five. Yeah, you know what,
• 2:07:52
  Speaker 3: I'm gonna give it to Tim Simms as well, because
• 2:07:55
  Speaker 3: he had me in the first act. Then it turns
• 2:07:57
  Speaker 3: out he was a vengeful cop.
• 2:07:59
  Speaker 2: Oh okay, wait, I take back my Tim Sims nipple
• 2:08:03
  Speaker 2: and I'm gonna yeah, sorry, I forgot that he's a cop.
• 2:08:06
  Speaker 3: Well I won't.
• 2:08:08
  Speaker 2: I'm gonna give he's not real.
• 2:08:11
  Speaker 3: But I do, like, I don't want Tim Sims to
• 2:08:13
  Speaker 3: get any bright ideas.
• 2:08:14
  Speaker 2: I do want to distribute some of my nipples to
• 2:08:19
  Speaker 2: Muriel's mom and her sister Jonie.
• 2:08:22
  Speaker 3: I yes, Betty and Jonie, I really And meanwhile, I'm
• 2:08:27
  Speaker 3: the person that just screamed they're not real. I am
• 2:08:30
  Speaker 3: so like. I just hope that Muriel calls Joni regularly.
• 2:08:35
  Speaker 3: I was worried for Joanie at the end. I don't
• 2:08:37
  Speaker 3: want Joni to get stuck in that pattern of abuse
• 2:08:40
  Speaker 3: with her dad because it's not like he's going to
• 2:08:42
  Speaker 3: ever improve. I'm like, Jony, I'm assuming you're an adult. Like,
• 2:08:49
  Speaker 3: it's hard to tell how old people were in the
• 2:08:51
  Speaker 3: nineties because they weren't using SPS sunblock and they were
• 2:08:56
  Speaker 3: ripping STIGs. But like, my heart really went out to Joni.
• 2:09:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I hope she moves on.
• 2:09:01
  Speaker 3: I'm still keeping my nipples with timsim. That is fine.
• 2:09:04
  Speaker 3: I allow it.
• 2:09:06
  Speaker 2: And with that, listeners, thank you so much for those
• 2:09:10
  Speaker 2: of you who have been frothing at the mouth for
• 2:09:14
  Speaker 2: this Mariel's wedding episode. I know it's it's some of
• 2:09:17
  Speaker 2: you at least. I hope you enjoyed it.
• 2:09:20
  Speaker 3: We really enjoyed putting it together. Yeah, we hope it
• 2:09:22
  Speaker 3: was worth the way because this was a blast.
• 2:09:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it was a prospect on our wedding Webuary month
• 2:09:31
  Speaker 2: last year. Yup, and it didn't quite make the cut.
• 2:09:34
  Speaker 2: But here it is on the main feed, So yeah,
• 2:09:37
  Speaker 2: what now?
• 2:09:37
  Speaker 3: What now?
• 2:09:38
  Speaker 2: But speaking of the main feed versus our Matreon, it's
• 2:09:44
  Speaker 2: something you should subscribe to. You can go to patreon
• 2:09:46
  Speaker 2: dot com slash spectal Cast. It's five dollars a month.
• 2:09:50
  Speaker 2: You get two bonus episodes on amazing themes such as
• 2:09:54
  Speaker 2: wedding Webruary. What a bargain and plus you get access
• 2:10:00
  Speaker 2: to the entire back catalog. So check that out. Check
• 2:10:04
  Speaker 2: out our link tree, our letterbox. You know, give us
• 2:10:08
  Speaker 2: five nipples on your listening platform, all that good stuff, follow.
• 2:10:13
  Speaker 3: Us on Instagram, and most of all, follow your heart.
• 2:10:17
  Speaker 3: And with that, listeners, let's get in the car and always.
• 2:10:22
  Speaker 2: Say it we Bye bye Street, Bye shopping Mall, I Cry,
• 2:10:26
  Speaker 2: Bye surfer Boys, Bye Los Angeles, Goodbye Porpoise Spit. What
• 2:10:35
  Speaker 2: a just I'd live there, No, I wouldn't, No horrible play.
• 2:10:41
  Speaker 2: Goodbye Porpoise Spit, Bye Bye. The Bechdel Cast is a
• 2:10:47
  Speaker 2: production of iHeartMedia, hosted by Caitlin Derante and Jamie Loftus,
• 2:10:51
  Speaker 2: produced by Sophie Lichterman, edited by Mola Board. Our theme
• 2:10:55
  Speaker 2: song was composed by Mike Kaplan with vocals by Catherine Voskresenski.
• 2:11:00
  Speaker 2: Our logo in merch is designed by Jamie Loftus and
• 2:11:03
  Speaker 2: a special thanks to Aristotle Acevedo. For more information about
• 2:11:07
  Speaker 2: the podcast, please visit linktree, slash Bechdelcast