Latest / 360 with Katie Woolf / The Week That Was - 18th March 2022

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The Week That Was - 18th March 2022 · 360 with Katie Woolf

0:00
Speaker 1: It is Friday morning.
0:01
Speaker 2: It is time for the week that was, and a
0:04
Speaker 2: bit of a different lineup this morning.
0:05
Speaker 1: As you'll notice as we go around.
0:07
Speaker 2: Joining me in the studio is the opposition leader Lea Fanocchiaro.
0:10
Speaker 3: Good morning to you, Good morning everyone, Good morning Katie.
0:12
Speaker 2: We've got Sky News bureau chief for the Northern Territory,
0:16
Speaker 2: Matt Cunningham, Good morning to you.
0:17
Speaker 4: Good morning.
0:18
Speaker 2: We've got Tom Morgan, the political reporter for the Northern
0:21
Speaker 2: Territory News. Good morning to you, Tom. And we have
0:24
Speaker 2: also got Kezia Pureic, the Independent member for Goid Good
0:27
Speaker 2: morning to you, Keezier.
0:28
Speaker 5: Morning Katie. Where's my Natasha?
0:30
Speaker 2: Oh my labor best is not well. It seems as
0:35
Speaker 2: though labor has has gone to ground. We know that
0:38
Speaker 2: I believe there is a six or seven of them
0:42
Speaker 2: in Tenant Creek at the moment. I do believe there
0:46
Speaker 2: was a certain saving one of those posts on social media,
0:49
Speaker 2: so a number of them Intenant Creek opening a supermarket.
0:52
Speaker 1: I believe that there are a few of them.
0:54
Speaker 2: Then going to Alice Springs today now I have been
0:57
Speaker 2: told that the police Minister has cod and so wasn't
1:01
Speaker 2: able to join us, and I believe that Natasha Files
1:04
Speaker 2: is in Alice Springs this morning.
1:06
Speaker 1: Now as well.
1:07
Speaker 2: Now just for a bit of background, I think for
1:09
Speaker 2: our listeners, because some of you may have been listening
1:11
Speaker 2: to the show for years since Pete Davies, the late
1:14
Speaker 2: great my predecessor was in the chair. It's been running,
1:18
Speaker 2: I guess for about twelve years, eight of those with me,
1:22
Speaker 2: around four with Pete Davies. And the only time that
1:25
Speaker 2: we've never had Labor Minister turn up was when the
1:30
Speaker 2: IKAC handed down their report most recently into the Turf Club.
1:35
Speaker 2: The only other time that I've ever turned up and
1:38
Speaker 2: not known whether we're going to have someone from the
1:41
Speaker 2: Government of the Day on was the week that the
1:44
Speaker 2: Royal Commission was called into don Dale and into Youth Justice.
1:49
Speaker 2: So we didn't know until Friday morning whether I was
1:52
Speaker 2: going to have anybody from the Government of the Day here,
1:55
Speaker 2: and then lo and behold, Adam Giles turned up as
1:58
Speaker 2: the microphones went on, Minister.
2:01
Speaker 1: So you can make of that, I guess what you will.
2:03
Speaker 2: But that's the only times in the last twelve years.
2:08
Speaker 2: So again I will say you can make of that
2:10
Speaker 2: what you will. Now look, I will give a bit
2:13
Speaker 2: of an update in a couple of minutes about the
2:14
Speaker 2: situation in Catherine or I will certainly do that throughout
2:17
Speaker 2: the morning, but let's get into this. I think that
2:19
Speaker 2: the thing that everybody knows that we are going to
2:21
Speaker 2: be speaking about this morning is the fact that nt
2:25
Speaker 2: police officer zach Rov was on Friday, last Friday, acquitted
2:28
Speaker 2: on all charges over the shooting death of Kumenjai Walker
2:32
Speaker 2: and ew and Dmu in twenty nineteen, after Jura's returned
2:35
Speaker 2: a unanimous not guilty verdict. Matt Cunningham, you were there
2:40
Speaker 2: pretty much every single day covering this story.
2:43
Speaker 6: Yeah, and there was obviously a high profile trial, Katie,
2:48
Speaker 6: and a very tense trial throughout a large part of it.
2:54
Speaker 6: You would have to say that, you know, there was
2:58
Speaker 6: a large police presence around court. I think there was
3:01
Speaker 6: concerns about, you know, what might happen at any point
3:04
Speaker 6: during the trial or after the trial, and you would
3:06
Speaker 6: have to say that none of that eventuated.
3:09
Speaker 4: And I think it needs to be said.
3:10
Speaker 6: That the walpury conducted themselves with great grace and dignity
3:15
Speaker 6: throughout that trial.
3:16
Speaker 4: Absolutely, they were.
3:18
Speaker 6: Clearly upset at the verdict and we heard, you know,
3:22
Speaker 6: all of the players involved in this speak outside the
3:25
Speaker 6: court after it was handed down last Friday.
3:28
Speaker 4: I thought, I thought.
3:30
Speaker 6: Constable Rob spoke very well, very briefly outside the court
3:33
Speaker 6: when he said that, you know this, while he was
3:36
Speaker 6: obviously happy with this decision, he said that it was
3:40
Speaker 6: a difficult time for kumen Joe Walker and his family
3:42
Speaker 6: and he was going to leave this space for them.
3:45
Speaker 6: And then we heard from several members of the Yundamu
3:47
Speaker 6: community outside the court. Since then, we've obviously seen, you know,
3:52
Speaker 6: some some pretty remarkable things take place in some pretty
3:56
Speaker 6: remarkable public commentary. You know, I thought the police commissioner
4:00
Speaker 6: he spoke on Friday afternoon, if his intention was to
4:03
Speaker 6: try to quell the disquiet within the police force and
4:06
Speaker 6: indeed the Yundimu community, he managed to achieve the opposite
4:10
Speaker 6: in a six and a half minute press conference where
4:12
Speaker 6: he spoke about car accidents and house fires and critical
4:14
Speaker 6: incidents and failed to mention the words Constable Rolph or
4:18
Speaker 6: Yuindamu and then walked.
4:19
Speaker 4: Off without taking questions.
4:21
Speaker 6: He put out a statement on Monday night that was
4:23
Speaker 6: fairly sensible, but why he didn't say on Friday.
4:26
Speaker 4: What was in his statement on Monday night?
4:28
Speaker 6: I'm not sure, but I think that was the beginning
4:30
Speaker 6: of what's been a pretty disastrous week for both the
4:33
Speaker 6: Police Executive and the government when it comes to the
4:35
Speaker 6: way they've dealt with this. And then of course, you
4:37
Speaker 6: know you had your interview with the Chief Minister on
4:39
Speaker 6: Tuesday and we know how that went.
4:40
Speaker 4: So you know, it's been a.
4:42
Speaker 6: Pretty crazy week, a pretty tough week for a lot
4:45
Speaker 6: of people, and I think, to be honest, the way
4:48
Speaker 6: it's been handled by both the Police Executive and the
4:52
Speaker 6: government has been less than idea.
4:54
Speaker 5: And Katie, I'm not sure if you're aware what others are,
4:56
Speaker 5: but there's been a petition started up on Facebook surrounding
5:00
Speaker 5: around the territory community or the top end particularly now
5:03
Speaker 5: it gets up to about five and a half thousand
5:05
Speaker 5: signatures now calling for or calling on the government to
5:08
Speaker 5: remove the Police Commissioner. And these are probably just ordinary
5:11
Speaker 5: Territorians and some might be closer to the action and
5:13
Speaker 5: others and some may well be you know, serving officers
5:16
Speaker 5: or just past officers. But there clearly is a lot
5:18
Speaker 5: of unrest and unhappiness out there in the community. At
5:22
Speaker 5: the subsequent actions and commentary by those that you expect
5:26
Speaker 5: better from it.
5:27
Speaker 2: It is actually that change dot or petition has now
5:31
Speaker 2: reached about six eight hundred and ninety three signatures on there. Now, look,
5:36
Speaker 2: I will take you to the comments actually that the
5:40
Speaker 2: Chief Minister had. Well, honestly, there's been so much happen
5:44
Speaker 2: it's hard to know where to go first. If I'm honest,
5:46
Speaker 2: there's been so much commentary throughout the week, I might
5:50
Speaker 2: actually take you firstly to the comments that were made
5:53
Speaker 2: from Richard Rolf, the father of Zachary Roff, following on
5:57
Speaker 2: obviously from that outcome and after we spoke to him
6:00
Speaker 2: on Monday morning, I believe it was that I had
6:03
Speaker 2: him on the show. Take a listen to what Richard
6:05
Speaker 2: Rolf had to say on the show on Monday.
6:08
Speaker 7: No commissioned officer has ever checked on Zach's welfare or
6:13
Speaker 7: his family since the arrest, and they have persecuted him
6:18
Speaker 7: relentlessly and without doubt.
6:21
Speaker 8: They are the worst employer in the country. They have
6:26
Speaker 8: no duty of care to their start. It's atrocious and
6:29
Speaker 8: the only way the Northern Territory Police Force can rebound
6:34
Speaker 8: to be the great police force that they once were
6:37
Speaker 8: is to immediately remove Jamie Chalker.
6:41
Speaker 2: So you are calling for the Police Commissioner, Jamie Chalker
6:44
Speaker 2: to be removed from his job.
6:47
Speaker 7: Whether he is sacked immediately or he resigns, I don't mind,
6:52
Speaker 7: but he must go.
6:53
Speaker 2: So that was Richard Rolf on the show earlier in
6:57
Speaker 2: the week. Now I think we all know that then
6:59
Speaker 2: the Chief Minister, Michael Gunner did certainly respond to those
7:04
Speaker 2: comments and.
7:06
Speaker 1: Well, I wish that he'd use better.
7:08
Speaker 2: Words, but had said that the Police Commissioner was a
7:11
Speaker 2: straight shooter. He said that fifty nine was too fast
7:15
Speaker 2: in a sixty zone for Jamie Chalker, and ultimately, you know,
7:19
Speaker 2: I was really saying that, you know that he has
7:22
Speaker 2: confidence in the Police Commissioner. But I think that the
7:25
Speaker 2: reality of this whole situation is that following on from
7:30
Speaker 2: that verdict on Friday, you know, as we've all spoken about,
7:33
Speaker 2: we've obviously heard from the Undamu community and elders, We've
7:38
Speaker 2: heard from Zakrov's legal team, we'd heard from the Police Association,
7:42
Speaker 2: we'd heard from Zakrov himself. But what we then saw,
7:46
Speaker 2: I think was a real lack of leadership on both
7:50
Speaker 2: fronts from the government and also from the police force
7:54
Speaker 2: in terms of coming out and really trying to bring
7:57
Speaker 2: the community.
7:58
Speaker 3: Together and restore confidence.
8:01
Speaker 9: So, of course, as Matt said, you had the Police
8:03
Speaker 9: Commissioner come out, speak flat out for six and a
8:06
Speaker 9: half minutes and say, really, you know, not what people
8:09
Speaker 9: needed to hear at that time.
8:11
Speaker 3: You had a very flat statement from the Chief Minister.
8:13
Speaker 9: Again it didn't mention comes to a rule for all
8:16
Speaker 9: from memory and we haven't heard from the Police minister.
8:19
Speaker 4: Now.
8:20
Speaker 9: I know she's at home with COVID, but you know,
8:22
Speaker 9: unless she's got a different COVID to most people, I
8:25
Speaker 9: don't think that's any excuse. I mean, Tom, you were
8:27
Speaker 9: able to extract from her three sentences the other day,
8:30
Speaker 9: but I mean, this is the person who you know,
8:32
Speaker 9: she's responsible for those men and women in blue. And
8:35
Speaker 9: so to have had this profound lack of response from
8:39
Speaker 9: the very three people the territory and the police need
8:42
Speaker 9: to hear from has been just added even a more
8:46
Speaker 9: devastating blow than what was already been dealt in the
8:48
Speaker 9: last two and a half years.
8:49
Speaker 10: And I think a lot of people, like a lot
8:52
Speaker 10: of people would be asking, why are you demanding the
8:55
Speaker 10: Chief Minister come out and talk. That was certainly a
8:57
Speaker 10: question that has supposed to me in the last week.
9:00
Speaker 10: I think it's important that the Chief Minister come out
9:02
Speaker 10: and talk and answer questions because he went to Jundumu
9:04
Speaker 10: in twenty nineteen and said consequences will flow talking about
9:08
Speaker 10: the coronial in quest. But also he has a duty
9:14
Speaker 10: as the leader of the Northern Territory to bring people
9:16
Speaker 10: together to facilitate the beginning of a healing process and
9:22
Speaker 10: to reach out to both people in Undamu and also
9:25
Speaker 10: in the police community to begin to I guess, heal
9:28
Speaker 10: the wounds of what has been a very damaging two
9:30
Speaker 10: years for the government. He hasn't done that. He's done
9:32
Speaker 10: an interview with UK in which he was on the
9:34
Speaker 10: attack or on the defensive the entire time and didn't
9:38
Speaker 10: really speak to it what territories need to hear.
9:40
Speaker 2: Let's take a little listen to that interview, because I
9:43
Speaker 2: guess I'm the one person in this room really who
9:46
Speaker 2: can't complain. I did speak to the Chief Minister earlier
9:48
Speaker 2: in the week, and I appreciate the fact that he
9:50
Speaker 2: gave me seventeen minutes of his time, but I know
9:53
Speaker 2: that there were in some instances more questions following on
9:57
Speaker 2: from that interview than what there were answers take a
9:59
Speaker 2: lo to what the Chief Minister had to say in
10:02
Speaker 2: relation to those comments that consequences would flow.
10:07
Speaker 11: It was clear what I was talking about. Unfortunately, and
10:10
Speaker 11: as you know, we've had this concession quite a lot
10:12
Speaker 11: on your Showkatie, my comments were deliberately taken out of context.
10:16
Speaker 11: I think was irresponsible and deliberate. I was clearly talking
10:20
Speaker 11: about the coronial investigation, of which will now commence, and
10:24
Speaker 11: I still expect there to be consequences, recommendations, findings, pick
10:28
Speaker 11: your word that will flow as a result of that.
10:31
Speaker 2: These words have certainly been used well, you could say
10:35
Speaker 2: against him, I suppose, over quite a long period of time.
10:38
Speaker 2: At the best, I think they were clunky. At worst,
10:42
Speaker 2: they were the wrong thing to say.
10:43
Speaker 9: Well, it's ridiculous what the Chief Minister is trying to say,
10:46
Speaker 9: and I think Paul McHugh said it so eloquently with
10:48
Speaker 9: you on Tuesday, where he just said words to the
10:50
Speaker 9: effect of Chief Minister, you're just not up for the job.
10:54
Speaker 3: The fact that Michael Gunner thinks it's okay.
10:56
Speaker 9: To clarify his comments as being about the Corona I
11:01
Speaker 9: just shows how much he doesn't understand how important what
11:03
Speaker 9: he says is now You've got the Police Commissioner on Monday,
11:08
Speaker 9: and I'm literally reading from his statement until that in quest,
11:11
Speaker 9: so the coronial, until that inquest is held, I'm constrained
11:14
Speaker 9: in what I can say. So the Police Commissioner is
11:16
Speaker 9: not saying anything because of the coronial. Yet you've got
11:18
Speaker 9: a Chief Minister flying into an emotion charged environment and
11:22
Speaker 9: you do a mood just days after a shooting, prejudicing
11:25
Speaker 9: the outcome like determine his words impugned, there was police
11:29
Speaker 9: wrongdoing and that punishment would flow from that wrongdoing. That's
11:32
Speaker 9: just within hours of the shooting taking place. He's happy
11:37
Speaker 9: to prejudice a coronial if you believe that that's what
11:39
Speaker 9: he was talking about. You know, it doesn't stack up, Katie.
11:44
Speaker 9: It's stinks and people need clarity, they need clear air.
11:47
Speaker 9: And you know this government talks about healing, Well, there's
11:49
Speaker 9: going to be no healing until everyone feels like a clear,
11:52
Speaker 9: independent process has taken place.
11:54
Speaker 1: Katie.
11:56
Speaker 5: It's just been a shimozzle since day one, the reaction
11:59
Speaker 5: by the Gum to the outcome of the court. It's
12:03
Speaker 5: the highest court of our land here in the territory.
12:05
Speaker 5: The decision and the outcome is what it is, and
12:08
Speaker 5: we all need to respect it, regardless of which side
12:11
Speaker 5: or which camp you're in. And some people, of course
12:14
Speaker 5: are going to be disappointed because they wanted a knife
12:16
Speaker 5: and an eye and a tooth for tooth kind of thing.
12:18
Speaker 5: But it is what it is, and as others have said,
12:22
Speaker 5: you know, it is beholden on the Chief Minister, as
12:25
Speaker 5: the leader of the Northern Territory government and the Northern
12:27
Speaker 5: Territory to take a stand, to be the leader for
12:31
Speaker 5: us to look and to want to follow him and
12:33
Speaker 5: his government on the path forward, whatever that may be. Now,
12:36
Speaker 5: some of the questions I've still got running around in
12:38
Speaker 5: my head is, yes, he went to the Union New community,
12:40
Speaker 5: which we pretty much agree that shouldn't have happened, and
12:43
Speaker 5: Nicole Madison, the Police Minister, went there as well. My
12:45
Speaker 5: question is what else and who else did they meet
12:47
Speaker 5: with when they're in that community, and did they make
12:49
Speaker 5: any promises to the people. Did they meet with Kumujo
12:51
Speaker 5: Walker's family, Did they meet with the elders separate to
12:54
Speaker 5: the public meeting that they had, Did the police and
12:56
Speaker 5: the Chief Minister and others meet with the elders? I mean,
12:59
Speaker 5: there's a whole lot of stuff and that's why except
13:01
Speaker 5: what Leah CLP has done it asking for an inquiry
13:04
Speaker 5: and the IKAK commissioners said yes, he might look at it.
13:06
Speaker 5: I don't know whether that means he's going to look
13:08
Speaker 5: at it or he is not going to look at it.
13:09
Speaker 5: And some of these questions need to be put to
13:11
Speaker 5: the perhaps if it Dykak is the relevant organization that's
13:14
Speaker 5: going to look at it. Is what else happened at
13:16
Speaker 5: MU with the Chief Minister and the Police Minister after
13:19
Speaker 5: the fatal incident.
13:20
Speaker 9: You're right, because if any of them were witnessesness appeared
13:23
Speaker 9: at the trial. I mean we've got the police Commissioner,
13:26
Speaker 9: the Police Minister and the Chief Minister on the same
13:28
Speaker 9: plane together to you and Demo.
13:30
Speaker 3: I mean, did they talk about the weather? I don't know.
13:32
Speaker 4: Well, well, I was just going to say.
13:34
Speaker 6: And the problem with the void that we've had for
13:37
Speaker 6: the past week that Jamie Chalker gave a press conference
13:40
Speaker 6: but didn't take questions, and that Michael has given one
13:43
Speaker 6: at all, is that all of these questions are now
13:47
Speaker 6: out there and no one's giving an answer to them.
13:49
Speaker 6: I mean, there have been some things that have been
13:51
Speaker 6: revealed in the past week that.
13:54
Speaker 1: We need answers to that's exactly.
13:56
Speaker 6: An Australian newspaper, in regards to the police investigation parted
14:00
Speaker 6: this week that Detective Stargant Kieran Wells, who was the
14:04
Speaker 6: detective leading the investigation into this matter, his notes say
14:07
Speaker 6: that he thought it was extremely concerning the crucial elements
14:12
Speaker 6: of an extremely serious criminal coronial investigation were being hastened
14:16
Speaker 6: for no discerning justifiable reason. Now these are notes that
14:20
Speaker 6: he took in the four days between the shooting and
14:23
Speaker 6: comfortable role being charged with murder, while he's the detective
14:25
Speaker 6: who's supposed to be leading that investigation, the.
14:29
Speaker 4: Detective Isabel Cummins.
14:32
Speaker 6: Detective Stargeant Isabel Cummins was directed to compile a brief
14:35
Speaker 6: for the DPP by one pm on November thirteen, four
14:39
Speaker 6: days after the shooting. She wrote that she was not
14:41
Speaker 6: comfortable with arrest and rushed process without full assessment of
14:45
Speaker 6: evidence and ability to investigate objectively. And then Detective Wells's
14:49
Speaker 6: notes again after Rolf was charged say investigators on scene
14:53
Speaker 6: do not agree with course of action both arrest.
14:56
Speaker 4: Element and charge.
14:58
Speaker 6: I think someone from the Northern Territory Police needs to
15:01
Speaker 6: answer some of these questions about why the charge was
15:06
Speaker 6: so quick.
15:07
Speaker 4: And you know.
15:08
Speaker 6: And there may be a case that there was enough
15:12
Speaker 6: evidence at some point to charge him with something, possibly
15:16
Speaker 6: even murder, but he's been found not guilty by a jury.
15:18
Speaker 6: But it is clear from documentary evidence that the police
15:23
Speaker 6: officers who were leading this investigation had concerns that there
15:27
Speaker 6: wasn't sufficient evidence at that time. They hadn't even conducted interviews.
15:31
Speaker 6: There wasn't sufficient evidence at that time to charge him.
15:34
Speaker 6: But that's what happened.
15:35
Speaker 10: And I want to know whether the coronial inquest when
15:38
Speaker 10: it starts, will look at that aspect of this case,
15:41
Speaker 10: of this very sad saga, or whether you do need
15:44
Speaker 10: an independent investigation into it, or whether you know the
15:47
Speaker 10: ikacks still haven't investigate.
15:52
Speaker 6: And that's the other fastical part of this whole affair
15:56
Speaker 6: is the comments that were made by the IKA Commissioner
15:58
Speaker 6: at the time Ken Fleming Black Lives Matter rally in
16:01
Speaker 6: Alice Springs two days after Constable Rolf had been charged
16:05
Speaker 6: at a point where remember before Consortable Rolf was charged,
16:08
Speaker 6: the government made a big song and dance about the
16:10
Speaker 6: fact that the IKAK would oversee the police investigation to
16:14
Speaker 6: make sure that there's no issues with police investigator that investigation,
16:18
Speaker 6: and then on the Friday, the flight Friday, Fleming makes
16:21
Speaker 6: those comments he has to be removed. And reading between
16:24
Speaker 6: the line of the statement that he's that his successor,
16:28
Speaker 6: Michael Riches put out during the week that that oversight
16:32
Speaker 6: didn't occur, Well.
16:33
Speaker 2: Let me take you to the Chief Minister's comments. I'm
16:36
Speaker 2: very aware obviously that we don't have a labor member
16:38
Speaker 2: in here this morning, so I think that it is
16:40
Speaker 2: pivotal that I do. People could be choken later, but
16:46
Speaker 2: I do think that, you know, it's pivotal that we
16:49
Speaker 2: do here what the Chief Finister said when I asked
16:52
Speaker 2: if there should be an independent inquiry and whether we
16:56
Speaker 2: do actually need to take a closer look. If he
16:59
Speaker 2: was ruling out that independent inquiry, take a listen.
17:02
Speaker 1: To what he had to say.
17:03
Speaker 2: So you're totally ruling out any other independent look at
17:07
Speaker 2: this and any independent look into whether there's been any
17:10
Speaker 2: kind of political interference. You're asking for a conspiracy nut
17:13
Speaker 2: and I'm saying no, I'm not, No, I'm not asking
17:15
Speaker 2: if you're a conspiracy you're actually no actually.
17:20
Speaker 1: Representing the.
17:22
Speaker 11: Community.
17:24
Speaker 2: I think that's actually I think that's a bit of
17:26
Speaker 2: a ridiculous statement to make you know, I'm representing views
17:29
Speaker 2: of the community that like that. People are out there
17:31
Speaker 2: saying right now, and if you want to call them
17:33
Speaker 2: conspiracy nuts, it's a bit disrespectful towards them, if I'm honest, Okay,
17:39
Speaker 2: towards members of the public, people who voted for you.
17:42
Speaker 11: There is an eyekak. They're independent, they can look at anything,
17:45
Speaker 11: and the corner is independent. We're also looking at them.
17:47
Speaker 2: Well, I don't know if you guys got your tinfoil
17:50
Speaker 2: hats on today, fine at home.
17:53
Speaker 9: And notice in his comments he said can, And I
17:55
Speaker 9: think that's what's really important to what Matt just said
17:58
Speaker 9: and what I Tom just said. The eyecack and the
18:02
Speaker 9: coronial can. There's no will, there's no e is. There's
18:06
Speaker 9: a lot of question marks up in the air. And
18:08
Speaker 9: you know, I'm no coronial expert, but traditionally coroners look
18:12
Speaker 9: at the events leading up to someone's death and then
18:15
Speaker 9: perhaps the immediate aftermath. But it's more about systems review
18:19
Speaker 9: so that if a person was in that situation again,
18:21
Speaker 9: hopefully they wouldn't it wouldn't lead to their death. So
18:23
Speaker 9: for example, when there was I can't remember, but you know,
18:26
Speaker 9: when you look at a death in custody, one of
18:28
Speaker 9: the coroner's recommendations was around having a nurse in watchhouses.
18:31
Speaker 9: So then government implemented that there should be a nurse
18:33
Speaker 9: in a watchhouse.
18:34
Speaker 10: You know.
18:34
Speaker 9: It's it's practical system reform to try and make sure
18:37
Speaker 9: we don't make the same mistakes again. So it's extraordinary
18:42
Speaker 9: to think that a coronial is going to answer questions
18:45
Speaker 9: around an appearance of political interference, around why someone was charged,
18:49
Speaker 9: you know, and certainly that by the chief man of
18:51
Speaker 9: his own words, he said the eyecack and the coronial can.
18:54
Speaker 9: He didn't say they are, he didn't say they would,
18:56
Speaker 9: he didn't say they will.
18:58
Speaker 2: Look, there are so many questions which remaine. So what
19:00
Speaker 2: I'm going to do, though, is take a very short
19:02
Speaker 2: break because there is still a lot to talk about
19:04
Speaker 2: in this space, including calls from some in the U
19:07
Speaker 2: and DEMU community for guns to be banned, but also
19:10
Speaker 2: the follow on and a story that Matt Cunningham rose
19:13
Speaker 2: earlier in the week about the Police Officer of the Year,
19:16
Speaker 2: the association that the Police Officer of the Year the
19:19
Speaker 2: Rotary Club have had with this well really being canned.
19:24
Speaker 1: So we'll talk further.
19:24
Speaker 2: About that throughout the hour you are listening to Mix
19:27
Speaker 2: one oh four point nine's three sixty. It is the
19:29
Speaker 2: week that was well, there has been so much to
19:32
Speaker 2: unpack this week, and we know that the main story
19:35
Speaker 2: which has been making headlines is obviously the court case
19:39
Speaker 2: that was the verdict that was handed down into the
19:43
Speaker 2: situation that we've been talking about all throughout the morning.
19:45
Speaker 2: But I do want to just talk about as well
19:48
Speaker 2: a story that you wrote earlier in the week matter
19:50
Speaker 2: yesterday it might have been Northern Territory Police have ended
19:53
Speaker 2: a thirty year association with the Rotary Club of Darwin's
19:55
Speaker 2: Police Officer of the Year after Constable Zach Roff was
19:59
Speaker 2: put forward as a possible recipient.
20:02
Speaker 7: Yeah.
20:02
Speaker 6: I mean there's clearly lots of internal tension within the
20:06
Speaker 6: Ant Police for a lot of reasons at the moment,
20:09
Speaker 6: and this won't help.
20:10
Speaker 4: But that's right.
20:11
Speaker 6: This is an award that's been running for thirty years
20:14
Speaker 6: and the Police Commissioner wrote to the club earlier this year,
20:18
Speaker 6: I believe, and told him that the Anti Police would
20:20
Speaker 6: no longer be associated with.
20:23
Speaker 4: The awards, so Roatrie could still run the award effectively
20:25
Speaker 4: if they wanted.
20:26
Speaker 6: To, but I think that their view is that it
20:28
Speaker 6: doesn't make any sense if they don't have the cooperation
20:30
Speaker 6: of the Northern Territory Police.
20:32
Speaker 4: Now this comes after.
20:34
Speaker 6: The process basically is that they get nominations from the
20:37
Speaker 6: public over a two month period, and then from those
20:40
Speaker 6: nominations they received from the public, they put forward three
20:43
Speaker 6: possible recipients to the Commissioner for vetting before they announced
20:47
Speaker 6: a winner. Now, last year, one of the possible recipients
20:50
Speaker 6: they put forward was Constable Zachary Rolf. Some people might
20:55
Speaker 6: think that that was someone inappropriate, givening he was facing
20:58
Speaker 6: a murder charge.
21:00
Speaker 4: Appears that the Commissioner.
21:01
Speaker 6: Took that view because he has now ended the police's association.
21:06
Speaker 5: He could he could have just said, look that one
21:08
Speaker 5: can't be considered because of this, because they vet them. Subsequently,
21:13
Speaker 5: he's pulled it now, you know. And then I think
21:16
Speaker 5: a statement came out from police that says, oh, we're
21:18
Speaker 5: looking at all our structure of our awards. It's not
21:20
Speaker 5: your awards, mate, you know, it belongs to Rotary, a
21:23
Speaker 5: high regard to respected international organization. Now to me, it's
21:27
Speaker 5: just smacks of pettiness and spitefulness. And along the way
21:31
Speaker 5: you know Rotary. I mean, I think it's the main
21:34
Speaker 5: roachary club of.
21:35
Speaker 3: Darwin the organized the awards.
21:38
Speaker 5: And you know, and from my understanding, I think even
21:41
Speaker 5: the Police minister's father was a recipient of one of
21:43
Speaker 5: these awards. You know, So you know, the Police Minister
21:46
Speaker 5: Nicole Madison's father was a police officer and you know,
21:49
Speaker 5: recipient of these awards. They're well regarded and you know
21:52
Speaker 5: it's good for the community because school based constables were
21:56
Speaker 5: one of those kind of people that used to get
21:58
Speaker 5: these awards because yes, they were doing their job in
22:00
Speaker 5: the schools and with the school community, but they also
22:02
Speaker 5: went above and beyond the ones I know that have picked.
22:05
Speaker 4: Up the award.
22:06
Speaker 5: And that's what the awards are about. It's about community
22:08
Speaker 5: engagement and making the police officers part of your community
22:12
Speaker 5: rather than just this big boogeyman over there that's going to.
22:14
Speaker 1: Pull you up for sale.
22:15
Speaker 2: I mean, it's also about the community having the opportunity
22:18
Speaker 2: to thank the police for the work that they do.
22:20
Speaker 2: And I actually got to me this is the whole
22:23
Speaker 2: situation that I'm finding a little bit disappointing at the moment.
22:26
Speaker 2: And even the fact that you know that the police
22:29
Speaker 2: Minister's not out speaking to the public at the moment.
22:31
Speaker 2: This isn't about ministers speaking to me, or to you Matt,
22:35
Speaker 2: or to you Tom as journalists. This is about elected
22:38
Speaker 2: officials speaking to the public, yes, and reinforcing to the
22:42
Speaker 2: police that they appreciate the work that they do. This
22:46
Speaker 2: is where at the moment, there is a vacuum that's
22:48
Speaker 2: not being filled. And as we've all discussed, you know
22:51
Speaker 2: that leadership that's not being shown right now. And I
22:53
Speaker 2: think that you know, it's easy for us all to
22:55
Speaker 2: give the police commissioner a bit of a kick up
22:57
Speaker 2: the barmer, It's easy for us to give the chief
22:59
Speaker 2: minister a kick up the but seriously, where are our
23:02
Speaker 2: elected officials at the moment? You know, why are they
23:05
Speaker 2: not out addressing these concerns. Why are they not out
23:08
Speaker 2: actually speaking to the police and saying we do appreciate
23:13
Speaker 2: the work that you're doing in the community.
23:15
Speaker 3: Right now, it's a kick in the it's a bowling.
23:19
Speaker 10: And when they do go out to speak about something else,
23:21
Speaker 10: as soon as you start asking questions about what is
23:23
Speaker 10: arguably the biggest news story so far this year in
23:26
Speaker 10: the territory, I'll shut it down. They'll take one question,
23:28
Speaker 10: they'll say, oh, I'm not going to talk to that,
23:30
Speaker 10: I'm not going to provide commentary on that, and they'll
23:32
Speaker 10: shut it down when they could use that opportunity to
23:35
Speaker 10: stand up and say, it's been a really difficult period
23:38
Speaker 10: for so many people. You know, let's find a way
23:40
Speaker 10: to move through this together.
23:41
Speaker 2: And even not only the police force, but even the
23:44
Speaker 2: community of you and to move yes, you know, as
23:47
Speaker 2: was pointed out.
23:48
Speaker 1: Earlier, Look, I just can't wrap my head around it.
23:51
Speaker 9: Everyone has been completely let down. We've had an extraordinary
23:55
Speaker 9: two and a half years and this is a terrible
23:56
Speaker 9: chapter in our history and now is the time to
24:00
Speaker 9: rebuild the confidence, which is why we want the inquiry.
24:03
Speaker 9: It just it needs to look at the period from
24:05
Speaker 9: the shooting to the time of charge and clear the
24:07
Speaker 9: air because our police have been decimated by this attrition
24:12
Speaker 9: has gone through the roof. Morale is at all times low.
24:14
Speaker 9: There's no confidence in the Chief Minister, within the police force.
24:18
Speaker 3: It's a terrible situation.
24:20
Speaker 9: And then to have something like a thirty year relationship
24:23
Speaker 9: with the Rotary Club, you know, not even letting Rotary
24:26
Speaker 9: give an award to police. I mean, how low do
24:30
Speaker 9: we get in this you know, it's extraordinary times and
24:34
Speaker 9: that just further erodes confidence morale, and you know, it's
24:39
Speaker 9: a bloody awful thing, Katie.
24:40
Speaker 1: Now I know.
24:41
Speaker 2: That there were calls on the steps outside outside the
24:45
Speaker 2: Supreme Court House as well for guns to no longer
24:49
Speaker 2: be used in communities.
24:50
Speaker 1: Now, if you missed, if you.
24:52
Speaker 2: Miss that those words being spoken by Uncle Ned Hargreaves
24:57
Speaker 2: on the steps of the Supreme Court on Friday, Listen, sorry,
25:01
Speaker 2: I'll just turn my own microphone back on.
25:03
Speaker 1: Take a listen to what he had to say.
25:05
Speaker 2: It's another sad day.
25:06
Speaker 4: I just say, when we are going to get substance?
25:13
Speaker 1: When why dame.
25:17
Speaker 10: No guns?
25:19
Speaker 4: No guns in the remote community? Will I want no guns?
25:24
Speaker 4: Enough is enough?
25:27
Speaker 2: And so that was obviously on these steps outside the
25:31
Speaker 2: Supreme Court need Hargreaves there speaking to the media. Like
25:36
Speaker 2: I said, right from the outset this morning, there is
25:38
Speaker 2: so much to unpack in this situation. But the Chief
25:40
Speaker 2: Minister did clarify or did confirm throughout the week that
25:44
Speaker 2: they that you know, they're not going to they're not
25:47
Speaker 2: going to be taking firearms away from the Northern Territory
25:50
Speaker 2: Police at this point, as far as I know.
25:52
Speaker 5: I mean, Katie, I can accept and acknowledge the pain
25:58
Speaker 5: and suffering that the family of Kmujo Walka has gone
26:02
Speaker 5: through and continue to go through grief.
26:04
Speaker 2: Grief.
26:04
Speaker 5: Grief has no end date. But I think everyone needs
26:09
Speaker 5: to just be calm or try to be calm. As
26:13
Speaker 5: I said that the court, the highest court of our
26:16
Speaker 5: land in the Northern Territory, has acquitted that man of
26:19
Speaker 5: the charges. Now like it or not, that is what
26:23
Speaker 5: has happened. And to then react to say, oh, well,
26:27
Speaker 5: because the gun killed that person, therefore we need to
26:29
Speaker 5: get rid of the guns. Police officers have guns for
26:32
Speaker 5: other reasons than you know, protection of their selves and
26:35
Speaker 5: other humans. You know, in the top end, they're often
26:37
Speaker 5: used for protection of people against crocodiles or you know,
26:39
Speaker 5: they might have to put a wounded animal down or
26:42
Speaker 5: things of that nature, and that's all part of their job.
26:46
Speaker 5: I can accept the pain that's coming from those people,
26:49
Speaker 5: but you know, the police are equipped with certain things
26:52
Speaker 5: because our community as general, across all of the Northern
26:56
Speaker 5: Territory from the world, is not a safe place anymore,
26:59
Speaker 5: and we're expecting these police officers to go out there
27:02
Speaker 5: on a daily basis. And I mean the what's his name,
27:04
Speaker 5: Bradley Murdock Fellow. No, it was the one that went
27:07
Speaker 5: on the red pasty of the city. You know, Okay,
27:10
Speaker 5: he had a gun, he shot people and all that
27:12
Speaker 5: sort of stuff. You know, Now, if our police officers
27:14
Speaker 5: had not been in the situation they're in, you know,
27:16
Speaker 5: and he still was firing at them, you know, they
27:18
Speaker 5: have to protect themselves and other citizens within the community.
27:21
Speaker 5: So you know, and if the governments come out or
27:23
Speaker 5: the police Comisi's comand and say that's not happening, well,
27:25
Speaker 5: that's not happy. So I think we just need to
27:27
Speaker 5: say we need to deal with it, recognize it, and
27:29
Speaker 5: then move on through.
27:30
Speaker 9: But part of why these calls are coming is because
27:33
Speaker 9: of that overwhelming sense of injustice, particularly for people in Nuendumu,
27:37
Speaker 9: who were you know, set up for failure essentially by
27:40
Speaker 9: the Chief Minister in his comments in those couple of
27:43
Speaker 9: days after the shooting. And you know, we've got to
27:46
Speaker 9: acknowledge that that is part of this. He promised a
27:49
Speaker 9: type of outcome and you know there would undoubtedly be
27:53
Speaker 9: that sense of injustice. But you know, our police, you know,
27:56
Speaker 9: we train them, they're highly trained professionals. We train them
28:00
Speaker 9: to carry a wide range of weapons. I mean, it's
28:02
Speaker 9: not just a glock or a rifle or a taser
28:06
Speaker 9: or whatever it might be.
28:07
Speaker 3: There's the button.
28:08
Speaker 9: You know, there's a ton of stuff, and they have
28:11
Speaker 9: to be trained, they have to be able to respond,
28:13
Speaker 9: They have to be able to protect themselves, their partners
28:16
Speaker 9: and other members of the community at any given time.
28:19
Speaker 9: You know, we send them to volatile situations every single day,
28:22
Speaker 9: and you know, we continue to support police carrying weapons.
28:26
Speaker 6: I do agree largely that we can't take weapons away
28:31
Speaker 6: from police.
28:32
Speaker 4: I think there has though, and you know, Keysier and
28:36
Speaker 4: Lea have been here a lot longer than me.
28:37
Speaker 6: They would have a better idea. I do wonder whether
28:39
Speaker 6: the relationship in communities between police and the Aboriginal leadership
28:44
Speaker 6: has broken down over a period of time, and whether
28:47
Speaker 6: that is contributing into in any way.
28:49
Speaker 4: It's what we're seeing here.
28:50
Speaker 6: I thought Marie and scrim just spoke really well on
28:52
Speaker 6: this issue the other day when when she was asked
28:54
Speaker 6: about the issue of policing communities and she said that
28:57
Speaker 6: police were vital in communities. They're really important things like
29:00
Speaker 6: you know, dealing with family and domestic violence, dealing with
29:04
Speaker 6: alcohol issues, dealing with all of those things.
29:06
Speaker 4: And she spoke about the.
29:07
Speaker 6: Importance of having a good, experienced officer in a community
29:13
Speaker 6: who has a good relationship with the community. And she
29:16
Speaker 6: used the example of Gary Higgins's son who's on the
29:18
Speaker 6: Tiwi Islands. Has it been Yeah, And she just said
29:21
Speaker 6: that on the Tvi Islands he has a fantastic relationship
29:23
Speaker 6: with the community and that becomes really helpful in dealing
29:27
Speaker 6: with all of those issues.
29:28
Speaker 4: They have to deal with.
29:29
Speaker 9: And this comes down to police resourcing. And I think
29:31
Speaker 9: Paul Matchuse said it. I can't remember if it was
29:32
Speaker 9: in his statement on Friday or not Matt but on
29:36
Speaker 9: Monday rather, but he said something like, you know, you
29:38
Speaker 9: can't He was talking about how some people had attacked
29:41
Speaker 9: a constable role for other members of the police force
29:43
Speaker 9: and sort of criticized their response to various things, and
29:45
Speaker 9: then he said something along the lines of, you know,
29:48
Speaker 9: you have to put you have to also attribute blame
29:50
Speaker 9: essentially to the policymakers around police resourcing and all of
29:53
Speaker 9: those other things, you know.
29:55
Speaker 8: Yeah.
29:55
Speaker 6: And one thing that came out during that trial is
29:57
Speaker 6: that Julie Frost, who was a sergeant in charge at Yinndamu,
30:00
Speaker 6: was absolute. By the time the irt arrived on that
30:03
Speaker 6: Saturday night, she.
30:05
Speaker 4: Was absolutely exhausted.
30:07
Speaker 6: It was her and two other senior constables there, consortable
30:11
Speaker 6: Hands Senior Comfortable Hand and Senior Constable Onion Smith, who'd
30:14
Speaker 6: been chased out of that house by couman Joe Walker
30:16
Speaker 6: with an axe three days earlier. Senior comfortable Hand was
30:19
Speaker 6: Duly Frost partner. You know, they were clearly terrified. They
30:23
Speaker 6: were clearly exhausted. They'd been working around the clock. They'd
30:26
Speaker 6: been break ins at the health clinic, they've been breakings.
30:28
Speaker 4: At the nurses quarters.
30:29
Speaker 6: They were just absolutely at their wits ends.
30:32
Speaker 5: And they have to respond because you don't know if
30:35
Speaker 5: life is going to be endangered, you know, like it
30:36
Speaker 5: might say there's no one in that house but someone yeah,
30:39
Speaker 5: you know, And just to follow up on what I
30:41
Speaker 5: think LEAs said about, you know, someone like the Ben
30:43
Speaker 5: Higgins on the Tibby Islands. Officer Higgins is the police
30:46
Speaker 5: officers in these community form other relationships and they have
30:48
Speaker 5: other duties. You know, they explained licensing, They explain why
30:52
Speaker 5: your car should be registered. You know, they helped with
30:54
Speaker 5: recognized what do you call it when you recognize documents?
30:56
Speaker 5: For signing. You know, they do a lot of other
30:59
Speaker 5: jobs in that community that a police officer in town
31:01
Speaker 5: wouldn't do. And that's why you're right. Getting the right
31:04
Speaker 5: kind of person into a remote community or a bush
31:06
Speaker 5: community is critical to form those relationships. Whether the person
31:10
Speaker 5: be married or not married doesn't matter. But it has changed.
31:13
Speaker 5: I have to agree with you, Mad, it's not it's
31:15
Speaker 5: not seen as somewhere where you want to go anymore,
31:18
Speaker 5: to a community that is on a river and you
31:19
Speaker 5: can go fishing every weekend. And the fact that the
31:22
Speaker 5: police commissioner, I think at one stage a few months ago,
31:25
Speaker 5: said if you don't go to an Abiginal community, then
31:27
Speaker 5: you won't get forrad On.
31:30
Speaker 3: They never they never get posted to Darwince.
31:32
Speaker 9: In the last three years, no constable has graduated and
31:35
Speaker 9: gone to do and they've got to go and time
31:37
Speaker 9: in the bush.
31:37
Speaker 5: And that's okay, but it's almost like it's a punishment.
31:40
Speaker 5: Unless you do this, you won't get promoted. You know
31:42
Speaker 5: it should be Look, this is an opportunity to.
31:44
Speaker 3: Get symptomatic recruiting problem.
31:48
Speaker 2: We are going to have to get ready to move
31:49
Speaker 2: along because I do still want to talk about these
31:52
Speaker 2: emergency powers being extended the announcement made by the Health
31:55
Speaker 2: Minister a bit earlier in the week, but just before
31:57
Speaker 2: we do wrap up, I mean, where.
31:59
Speaker 1: Is this all going to land?
32:01
Speaker 2: Do you think that this situation is going to go
32:03
Speaker 2: away for the Chief Minister? Do we think that realistically
32:08
Speaker 2: this is a situation where people need to accept the
32:10
Speaker 2: outcome and you know, move on and the fact that
32:14
Speaker 2: there is going to be a coronial and that is it,
32:17
Speaker 2: or you know, do we need to actually see this
32:20
Speaker 2: independent inquiry and.
32:23
Speaker 1: See what that comes, what comes out of us at.
32:25
Speaker 5: The heart of all these problems, Let's be honest, the
32:27
Speaker 5: turf club deal, you know, the how this came about
32:30
Speaker 5: that mister Rolf was charged. Is Michael Gunner the Chief Minister.
32:34
Speaker 5: He's enmeshed in all these problems that we've seen within
32:38
Speaker 5: our community in some shape or form. My answer is
32:41
Speaker 5: very simple, Chief Minister has to go. You know, either
32:44
Speaker 5: the Deputy Chief Minister a Cole Madison or Lead of
32:48
Speaker 5: gouvern Business Natasha Files or someone else for that matter
32:51
Speaker 5: within their caucus needs to step up and say you
32:55
Speaker 5: don't have the confidence of the community anymore and we
32:57
Speaker 5: are going to respond accordingly.
32:58
Speaker 1: What to give the.
32:59
Speaker 5: Community to give us back a decent leader. Gunn has
33:02
Speaker 5: got to go.
33:03
Speaker 10: In my view, I think the Chief Minister should have
33:05
Speaker 10: learned when the turf club saga unfolded, when that report
33:08
Speaker 10: was released, that these questions don't go away easily quickly,
33:13
Speaker 10: and they.
33:14
Speaker 3: Can't be just lack of intellect.
33:15
Speaker 10: You can't just go to ground and ignore them and
33:17
Speaker 10: think that people will stop asking questions.
33:19
Speaker 9: And people can't let them go to ground. I mean,
33:22
Speaker 9: you know we're sitting here with no labor member here
33:24
Speaker 9: yet the Police Minister is happy to post on her
33:26
Speaker 9: Facebook page about half an hour ago saying she's at
33:29
Speaker 9: a school assembly for harmony. She still well, well, I've
33:33
Speaker 9: got her Facebook right in front of me now. I
33:34
Speaker 9: was saying happy Harmony Day, thanks for putting on a
33:36
Speaker 9: wonderful celebration lean your primary school.
33:39
Speaker 4: So you know, I.
33:40
Speaker 3: Mean it is every Territorian's responsibility.
33:43
Speaker 9: You know, the media can report, the opposition can fight back,
33:46
Speaker 9: but every Territorian needs to let this Gunner government not
33:49
Speaker 9: get away with going to ground again because time and
33:52
Speaker 9: time when christis hits, Gunner does a runner and it's
33:55
Speaker 9: not okay. And this is the point where we stand
33:57
Speaker 9: up in as a community and say enough is enough.
34:01
Speaker 1: Where are we going to go here?
34:02
Speaker 2: You know, I think it's going to be very interesting
34:04
Speaker 2: to see Parliament obviously resumed next week, no doubt the
34:07
Speaker 2: Opposition and the Independence we'll be putting some pressure on there.
34:10
Speaker 1: But look we're going to take a very short break
34:12
Speaker 1: when we come back.
34:12
Speaker 2: I am keen for us to discuss these emergency powers
34:16
Speaker 2: being extended. You are listening to Mix one oh four
34:19
Speaker 2: point nine three sixty. It is the week that was.
34:22
Speaker 2: It is fifteen minutes away from ten o'clock and in
34:24
Speaker 2: the studio with me this morning for the week that was.
34:26
Speaker 2: We've got the Opposition leader Leafonoccuiaro, Matt Cunningham from Sky News,
34:30
Speaker 2: Tom Morgan from the NT News and Keysierpuric the Independent.
34:34
Speaker 2: And if you are wondering why we don't have a
34:36
Speaker 2: labor member.
34:37
Speaker 1: Well so are we.
34:38
Speaker 2: But we will keep it on Keevan on because we
34:41
Speaker 2: know that the Health Minister Natasha Files earlier this week
34:45
Speaker 2: announced that the government's going to be extending its public
34:47
Speaker 2: health emergency for an additional ninety days under the Public
34:50
Speaker 2: and Environmental Health Act of two thousand and eleven. In addition,
34:55
Speaker 2: next week, when Parliament resumes. The Government, I understand it's
34:58
Speaker 2: happening next week will introduce this bill to make amendments
35:01
Speaker 2: to the Act which will provide transitional powers to the
35:04
Speaker 2: Chief Health Officer to manage a pandemic emergency for a
35:07
Speaker 2: period of up to two years following the revocation of
35:11
Speaker 2: the emergency declaration. Now, I think it's all been quite confusing,
35:15
Speaker 2: and one of the things that people are finding quite
35:17
Speaker 2: confusing is why we seem to be heading down this
35:20
Speaker 2: path when other states seem to be moving away from
35:23
Speaker 2: Can I.
35:24
Speaker 6: Just make a quick point going back to everything else
35:26
Speaker 6: we've been talking about this morning before we get onto
35:27
Speaker 6: the issue itself. But I think it's instructive that during
35:33
Speaker 6: the COVID crisis of the last two years, every time
35:36
Speaker 6: there's been a major announcement to be made, it has
35:39
Speaker 6: involved the Chief Minister, Michael Gunner and the Territory Controller
35:42
Speaker 6: slash Police Commissioner Jamie Chalker standing up on the fourth
35:47
Speaker 6: floor in the Lichfield Room of Parliament House with the
35:49
Speaker 6: flags behind them, making the grand announcement and then taking
35:53
Speaker 6: questions from the media. Yet, on this occasion, and this
35:56
Speaker 6: don't underestimate the significance of this announcement This is one
35:59
Speaker 6: of the biggest announced we've had during this COVID crisis.
36:02
Speaker 6: It was Natasha Fhiles and Hugh Higgy out at the
36:04
Speaker 6: vaccination clinic.
36:05
Speaker 4: Why well, why do you think.
36:07
Speaker 1: We all know why?
36:09
Speaker 2: But it's like it is quite unbelievable to think that, well,
36:13
Speaker 2: not only were they not there, that's unbelievable in itself,
36:16
Speaker 2: but then to think that we are moving down this
36:17
Speaker 2: path of an unelected official having these they are incredibly
36:23
Speaker 2: large powers for the next two years while the rest
36:27
Speaker 2: of the nation seems to be moving away from this situation.
36:30
Speaker 10: And I wish Natasha Files was here right now to
36:32
Speaker 10: answer what I'm about to say. But she said, oh,
36:36
Speaker 10: we're being very accountable. We don't need to put a
36:38
Speaker 10: report before Parliament, you know every three months on what
36:41
Speaker 10: the chief Health officers sociations.
36:42
Speaker 4: We're being very accountable. We don't need to put a
36:44
Speaker 4: report for it.
36:44
Speaker 10: But because she's holding press conferences with her argument was
36:48
Speaker 10: because we're holding press conferences, we're being accountable. And I
36:50
Speaker 10: simply said, well, you can't actually, you know, if you
36:53
Speaker 10: table something in parliament or you say something in parliament,
36:55
Speaker 10: you actually can't speak miss truths at a press conference.
36:58
Speaker 10: You can say whatever you want, not suggesting that they
37:01
Speaker 10: are truthful, but it's possible, like they need to be
37:04
Speaker 10: accountable to the Parliament and to the public as well,
37:08
Speaker 10: and I don't think press conferences cut it.
37:10
Speaker 2: So, you know, at the heart of a lot of
37:12
Speaker 2: this this week, and I you know, I will point
37:14
Speaker 2: out that I have had the Chief Minister on the
37:16
Speaker 2: show and also had the Health Minister on the show.
37:18
Speaker 2: But I've got to say, at the heart of all
37:20
Speaker 2: of this right now, there seems to be a real
37:23
Speaker 2: sense that you know that the government is not communicating
37:27
Speaker 2: as well as they should be and could be with territories.
37:30
Speaker 9: Well, they are arrogant and they have a sense of entitlement.
37:33
Speaker 9: They treat the Parliament with contempt. It's just sort of
37:36
Speaker 9: like an inconvenience for them. And Tom's absolutely right. They
37:39
Speaker 9: are accountable to the people through the Parliament and that's
37:42
Speaker 9: why proper reporting in the Parliament is the only way
37:47
Speaker 9: that we can have any confidence in what the health
37:49
Speaker 9: advice is. I mean, this has been this is a
37:52
Speaker 9: really scary amendment that the government are proposing, and for
37:54
Speaker 9: people who aren't quite sure of the detail under the
37:58
Speaker 9: currently the government has to clearest state of emergency now
38:01
Speaker 9: at last ninety days. Within that ninety days, what that
38:04
Speaker 9: does is give the Chief Health Officer a very broad
38:07
Speaker 9: range of powers to encroach on people's lives, take away liberty,
38:09
Speaker 9: force people to do things, et cetera. Now that is
38:12
Speaker 9: reserved for the most serious states of emergency. What the
38:16
Speaker 9: Gunner government are doing is they've said we don't want
38:19
Speaker 9: to keep the state of emergency going, so in about
38:21
Speaker 9: ninety days we're going to stop that. But what we're
38:23
Speaker 9: going to do is take all of the power that
38:26
Speaker 9: legislation gives the chow during a.
38:28
Speaker 3: State of emergency.
38:28
Speaker 9: We're going to take it out and we're going to
38:30
Speaker 9: give it to him unfettered for two years. That way,
38:33
Speaker 9: publicly we can say state of emergency over, but practically
38:37
Speaker 9: the choke can still make all of the decisions how
38:39
Speaker 9: to have all of the power that is reserved only
38:42
Speaker 9: for a state of emergency. So this is a fundamental
38:45
Speaker 9: problem in transparency and scrutiny and the devolving of great
38:49
Speaker 9: power to essentially a public servant who is not accountable
38:53
Speaker 9: to the people like a member of parliament.
38:55
Speaker 4: Is Yeah, I think it is. I think it's fairly outrageous.
38:58
Speaker 6: And the easy thing for doing it is that we're
39:01
Speaker 6: supposed to be in some kind of emergency. Hugh Hegey
39:04
Speaker 6: undid that argument himself in the press conference when he
39:07
Speaker 6: said that the territory is the safest place aside from
39:10
Speaker 6: the moon, So the safest place right.
39:13
Speaker 10: The safest place on earth aside from.
39:16
Speaker 6: The What if this is the case? And as Leah says,
39:24
Speaker 6: to give power to an unelected bureaucrat is extraordinary and
39:29
Speaker 6: should only be done in the most drastic of drastic circumstances,
39:32
Speaker 6: posing cyclone tracy.
39:35
Speaker 4: Do it under these circumstances.
39:36
Speaker 5: And no doubt believe it, because obviously let slash is
39:39
Speaker 5: going to be rushed through either the next week or
39:40
Speaker 5: the week after in Parliament and government. As Liz pointed out,
39:44
Speaker 5: they shut they shut the bait down. You know, if
39:47
Speaker 5: the opposition tries to censure or question something, will bring
39:49
Speaker 5: their own motions. They shut down general business.
39:51
Speaker 3: Shut down our own motions in our own time.
39:53
Speaker 5: The question, the question is why, what is driving? There's
39:57
Speaker 5: always got to be a reason that doesn't just pop
39:58
Speaker 5: out of a balloon. What is driving? For the Health
40:02
Speaker 5: Minister and Tasha Philes to want to do this, she's
40:05
Speaker 5: she's been given advice from someone. She hasn't thought it
40:07
Speaker 5: up herself. So it's either come from Heggy himself.
40:10
Speaker 1: Or it's a distraction.
40:13
Speaker 3: I think it's a distraction this week, and also.
40:17
Speaker 2: Realize even if it is a distraction, I don't think
40:20
Speaker 2: that they anticipated the way that it would be received
40:22
Speaker 2: by territorians. I don't think that they realized that everybody listening.
40:27
Speaker 6: Only a few minutes and there there was outrage, even
40:30
Speaker 6: from the people who were the most supportive of Daniel
40:33
Speaker 6: Andrews and Brett Sutton and all of the things that
40:36
Speaker 6: they'd done through that pandemic and Victoria. There was absolute
40:39
Speaker 6: outrage from everyone just about in that state over their
40:42
Speaker 6: attempts to do this, and there will be something similar here.
40:45
Speaker 6: I mean, people are not stupid. People believe in accountability
40:49
Speaker 6: and they believe that there needs to be checks and
40:51
Speaker 6: balances against government and you can't just have an unelected
40:54
Speaker 6: bureaucrat going around making decisions willy nilly.
40:58
Speaker 2: Accountability, but it is acting the lives of so many people, yes, very.
41:04
Speaker 3: Personally affecting people.
41:05
Speaker 10: Whenever the government hit the rocks, they always go back
41:07
Speaker 10: to what has worked for them and over the last
41:09
Speaker 10: two years it's been COVID.
41:11
Speaker 4: So if you just look at a purely.
41:14
Speaker 10: Tactical from a purely tactical point of view, you know
41:17
Speaker 10: what can they you know, help to reset the new
41:20
Speaker 10: cycle with in the aftermath of the Rock trial, it's oh,
41:23
Speaker 10: we're going back to COVID where we're proactive on COVID
41:25
Speaker 10: by providing Chief Old Officer with all these powers. Unfortunately,
41:28
Speaker 10: I don't think that people care too much about COVID anymore.
41:31
Speaker 2: I pass, you know, we know it's still there, we
41:34
Speaker 2: know it's still an issue, but it is no longer
41:37
Speaker 2: right at the forefront for territories like a previously.
41:39
Speaker 9: And the problem with this announcement is there's no justification
41:43
Speaker 9: for it. If the government believed the chow should have
41:45
Speaker 9: that power, then they have to have the stomach to
41:48
Speaker 9: front up and extend the emerged state of emergency, right,
41:51
Speaker 9: not just rip out the power from the state of
41:53
Speaker 9: emergency so that in ninety days time they can turn
41:56
Speaker 9: around and hold a press conference and say, oh, look
41:58
Speaker 9: at us, we've got no state of emergence. And I
42:00
Speaker 9: think that's where people see straight through the strategy by
42:04
Speaker 9: the government, and it's if you're genuinely going to end
42:06
Speaker 9: the state of emergency in ninety days, then all powers
42:09
Speaker 9: of the Chow go to bed with that. But this
42:12
Speaker 9: separates them out, gives them to the Chow for two years,
42:15
Speaker 9: so that Natasha Fars and Michael Gonne can say, well done,
42:18
Speaker 9: We've got no state of emergency.
42:19
Speaker 3: It's rubbish.
42:20
Speaker 2: We are going to have to take a very short break.
42:22
Speaker 2: You are listening to Mix one OW four point nine
42:24
Speaker 2: three sixty. Matt Cunningham has had to run away a
42:27
Speaker 2: couple of minutes early and well that's just about it
42:30
Speaker 2: for us this morning.
42:31
Speaker 1: Before we wrap up, though, Gee, these petrol prices.
42:33
Speaker 2: We've spoken to a few businesses throughout the week and
42:35
Speaker 2: heard the impact that the petrol prices are having on them.
42:37
Speaker 2: Right now, they remain high, but my understanding is that
42:41
Speaker 2: we're hopefully expecting them to come down somewhat Globally.
42:45
Speaker 10: I think prices are coming down. How long that takes
42:48
Speaker 10: to flow into you know, petrol bowsers here in the
42:51
Speaker 10: territory remains remain.
42:53
Speaker 9: We need retailers to respond, you know, commensurate with the
42:57
Speaker 9: with the price drops.
42:58
Speaker 10: Yeah, absolutely, yeah, I'm not sure you've just pulled up
43:01
Speaker 10: the screen.
43:01
Speaker 2: Yeah, I've just pulled up the screen. I believe that's
43:03
Speaker 2: let me just double check. I think that that is
43:05
Speaker 2: the diesel prices. Yes, it is around Darwin today, so
43:08
Speaker 2: diesel remains pretty high at this point. Two eighteen is
43:11
Speaker 2: the fairest you're going to find it right up to
43:13
Speaker 2: two dollars twenty six. So I put eighty bucks worth
43:17
Speaker 2: in my car yesterday. I can't even tell you the
43:19
Speaker 2: last time I didn't just fill my car up. Felt
43:21
Speaker 2: like a UNI student going, oh, I'll do ten dollars worth.
43:25
Speaker 2: But it is expensive right now for people, and I
43:27
Speaker 2: think all of us are just waiting for those prices
43:29
Speaker 2: to come down. Let alone, if you're running a business,
43:32
Speaker 2: like we heard from a builder earlier in the week,
43:34
Speaker 2: and even those supermarkets as well, freighting food and all
43:40
Speaker 2: their different goods in it's tough times for them businesses.
43:43
Speaker 9: It certainly is, and of course those costs get passed done,
43:46
Speaker 9: which we want to understand. You know, no one's saying
43:48
Speaker 9: a business can survive shouldering that type of increase, but
43:51
Speaker 9: you know there's going to be bigger impacts too, with
43:53
Speaker 9: all of the floods and all of the terrible scenes
43:55
Speaker 9: we're seeing on the Eastern seaboard. You know, with impact
43:59
Speaker 9: on obviously meat, on fruit and vegetables. So it's a
44:03
Speaker 9: it's a tough time for our nation and for their
44:06
Speaker 9: you know, every day, every day territory.
44:07
Speaker 1: It really is.
44:08
Speaker 10: I think upcoming federal election will be an election on
44:11
Speaker 10: the cost of living. Yeah, whether whether Scott Morrison wants
44:14
Speaker 10: to change the focus toward national security or not, I
44:17
Speaker 10: think there's still going to be a lot of questions
44:19
Speaker 10: around the cost of living.
44:20
Speaker 5: Yeah, and it doesn't it hurts us most in out
44:22
Speaker 5: because the terrich has got a lot of regional places,
44:23
Speaker 5: remote places, bush communities, you know.
44:26
Speaker 3: And not good public transport either.
44:28
Speaker 5: So yeah, so we need the fuel prices to come down.
44:31
Speaker 1: Well, look at ten o'clock we are going to have
44:32
Speaker 1: to leave it there.
44:33
Speaker 2: Always great to have you all in the studio for
44:35
Speaker 2: the week that was Leofanocchiaro, the Opposition leader, thanks so
44:38
Speaker 2: much for.
44:38
Speaker 9: Your time, Thank you and happy Holly for tomorrow, I'm
44:40
Speaker 9: looking forward to the festival out at Lake Alexander at
44:43
Speaker 9: East Point.
44:44
Speaker 2: A big thanks to Matt Cunningham who has left us.
44:47
Speaker 2: Tom Morgan from the NT and News, a big thank
44:49
Speaker 2: you to you as well for your time this morning
44:51
Speaker 2: and kesy Epuric.
44:53
Speaker 1: We're going to