Latest / LOYAL TO THE CRAFT / They Spent $40,000 on One Music Video | RIVALS on Confidence, Money & Never Waiting for Permission

Transcript

They Spent $40,000 on One Music Video | RIVALS on Confidence, Money & Never Waiting for Permission · LOYAL TO THE CRAFT

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_01: Well to the craft, Adobe Radio.
• 0:01
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for dropping in today.
• 0:02
  SPEAKER_01: We've got Kaylee and Josh from the band Rivals.
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_01: They have had a busy year, not just a busy year, signing to a new label, putting out singles, putting out incredible videos, but they've been pushing the limits for a long time.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_01: This isn't an overnight success.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_01: Josh, Kaylee, thank you so much for joining.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_01: Can't wait to dive into your story.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, thank you for having us.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_00: We're really hyped.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_01: Heck yeah.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_01: So you guys are literally in the middle of rehearsals and getting things moving.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_01: You've got an incredibly busy rest of this year, which is kind of almost ending, but talk to me about the feelings of where you're at now signing with Epitaph and just the incredible, you know, results and engagement from this insane video you guys put out.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_01: What's the feeling in between you both about as you embark on the road?
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so I genuinely never never thought we'd sign to another label.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_00: I was really convinced it would never happen.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and when Epitaph approached us, we were just like because like Epitaph's a really well-known and fantastic label.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_00: And obviously, we have some friends on it, Nevertell and Sleep Theory, and they just were raving about how great they are.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_00: And um, and I got to know them a little bit uh after uh playing with Nevertell when Jeremy got sick.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_00: And so I got to meet all of them and um prior, and this is before they even were talking about signing us or anything, and um yeah, they're just good people, and um yeah, and then they were just like, Hey, you know, no uh we were working with Raul for the new record, and then they were like, Hey, do you want a label?
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, maybe let's talk.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um and yeah, it just ended up happening, and I can't imagine like Sue and Edie and Brett and Jenna, like we have the team there, and there's so many people there, by the way.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_00: So um, but those are like the core four, and like I love them, they are great, great, great, great people.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so it's been really cool, but unexpected.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_00: It was definitely not on my um bingo card in my life again.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_03: For 2026.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_03: For yeah, but in general.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, no.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, well, I was gonna say, like, what's kind of cool about the whole epitaph thing as well is that like back in the day, like we always had like, oh, there's five labels that we would love to speak to, right?
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_03: And Epitaph was in that those top three labels.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_03: And so to be able to have that conversation like five, six years ago, and to be able to now in 2026 be like, wow, this is actually happening.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_03: It's a very full circle moment for us.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, because our old guitar player, that was like his dream label.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_00: So it's it's really cool to kind of like hit that.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, but yeah.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_01: What brought you what brought you to that point to have that second thought of, you know, because you y'all 10 years ago, you know, and I'm putting myself an aspiring musician, young Mike's shoes.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_01: I would have been like, heck yeah, label, let's go.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_01: Obviously, things have shifts shifted.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_01: What put you in that mindset of actually having that thought of like, I don't know if we want a label anymore?
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_01: What drew you to that conclusion?
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_00: Honestly, we started making money, to be honest.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_00: Like, um when you don't have a label and you're just racking in all those royalties yourself, like it stacks.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um so that was a really big factor of not wanting one.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_03: Um also you were really good at the business side of it already.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, like I kind of had a grip on it for the most part.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and it just like, and we had been approached by other labels, but it kind of came down to the core of like, well, we're already doing everything, so what can you do for us?
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_00: And it it just it was a lot of unanswered questions or just things that I was already doing, and I was like, okay.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but with Epitaph, it was the deal was great, it was so good.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_03: Um and they really believed in our vision.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, they did, and that was the other thing.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_00: They really believed in the vision.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_00: Like when I pitched the con, because we started working with them a little prior to actually signing too, just kind of getting geared up to like get everything ready.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_00: And um I remember telling them my idea for the album, and they were like, You're insane, uh, but you know, let's rip it, let's like, let's do it.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_00: And um, when I pitched the first music video, they were like, What?
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, Yes.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_00: So this is what it's gonna be.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, and then me and Josh started conversating about him doing a comic, which he started working on for the album, um, which is going great.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_03: He's yeah, I just finished it.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_00: No, well, not the whole thing, but part of it, yeah.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and it all ties together.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_00: So um, yeah.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_03: This is the first time we really get to world build out, you know, which is something that we've always kind of talked about in the past, and we've tried.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, we we we shot a music video that had this really sick uh storyline with us in space and all this weird stuff.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_00: Oh yeah, we never put that music out there.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_03: And we never put it out because I just didn't like it.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it just it didn't turn it didn't turn out the way that we wanted to.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_00: When you don't have the budget, it's hard to like tell a story.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_00: So when you have a budget, it's like, okay, we can now we can you know do it when it looks good and like so.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_01: How did you guys sorry how did you guys how did you you guys are creatives and there's so many young, aspiring creatives that are gonna listen to this and go, yeah, I want that too.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_01: I want the budget.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_01: So because we all know how hard it is to do it yourself, yes, but it's a it's a necessity because you have to learn, you have to gain the knowledge to fail and get up and have that consistency and perseverance to push through.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_01: What do you guys think made it possible for a record label like Epitaph to go, yes, let's help you build that world?
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_01: We'll provide budget and resources beyond what you can do on your own.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_01: What do you think made you different that young musicians and creatives can latch on to and learn from to do it themselves to get to this point where you're at?
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean, a lot of it is just genuinely and quite honestly, is just sheer blind confidence, um to be quite frank, and just literally never stopping.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, like even when it's you're like, because music, I'm gonna be real with you, is a lot of this.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_00: It's a lot of that valleys, and you it's like about managing the dips because the dips are dips, they are low, and you're just like, oh god, I think I want to stop doing this, and then you're like, no, I'm gonna prove everyone wrong, wrong.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_03: And then once once you hit those peaks of the top of the mountain, it's so gratifying to be like, oh, this was worth it.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, you know, I I got to see the I saw the goal, I persevered over all the struggles, and uh, and like perfect example, seeing that music video and seeing how the gimbal was being, or whatever that crane that we used for some of these.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_02: That's crazy.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_03: It was just like, I remember showing up to the music video and being like, this is it.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_03: Like, and once we started putting on the armor, like seeing her put on the armor and everything, I was like, dude, what are we doing right now?
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_03: This is so cool.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_00: But honestly, genuinely, to answer that question, it's just not don't ever stop.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_00: And like, if you don't know how to do something, ask people.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_00: Like, ask people who have done it, people who are farther than you, ask be like, what'd you guys do?
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_00: What what happened?
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_00: How did you get there?
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_00: And like, you just have to ask those questions.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_00: And honestly, there's so much resources on YouTube too, um, of just people talking about their experiences like this, this podcast.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you know what I'm saying?
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_00: It's like genuinely, it's just don't give up and keep posting and keep writing and just creating keep creating, really.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_00: And be you that's the other thing, be yourself because people can tell when it's not authentic.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, they can't, and now Epitaph is a resource there for you guys.
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_01: Almost as a mentor, all the people you mentioned, Sue and Brett, they've all been part of this industry for so long and have so much knowledge that collectively you both have done incredible things in your journey, but power in numbers of people that believe in the vision and building that world and want to support it is huge.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_01: Your your call out of ask questions, like get them get a mentor.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_01: There's somebody that's done what you want to do in some way or another that you can ask a question.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_01: Chances are they write back and give you a one-liner and you can open it up and try to go further.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_01: What do you have to lose though?
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_01: Sending a DM or sending an email to somebody that you want to learn from, right?
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_00: 100%.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_00: I have I reply to people.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_00: People ask me, like, hey, like, I want to start a band, I want to do this.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, here's the first five steps.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_00: And I'll I reply to people.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_00: I do.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_00: People hit me up all the time, and I'm like, if I see it, because sometimes I just don't see it, but like if I do and I open it, I'll reply.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_01: What do you guys think the first five steps of starting a band would be?
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_01: What how what would you what would your answer be to that DM?
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_00: Find people for the band, obviously.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, but like A, people that are cool and are not whack.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_00: Is one, two, or B, good players.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_03: Good players, having a common goal.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_00: Two, writing, don't ever stop, just keep writing, keep writing songs, keep because it takes what, 30-something songs in order to like that's what they say.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_00: That's like the the average for bands to finally hit.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_00: Keep writing, don't stop writing.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um three, rehearse because that's so important.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um, get on shows, anything, local shows, any gig you can get, because you have to get out of the willy-nillies of like being uh awkward on stage, um, fixing that, uh, and then five.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_03: I if I if I may, I would say uh accountability, being able to hold yourself accountable and your band members accountable for the things that you need them to do.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_03: And it's good to have a I mean, thankfully, Kaylee and I have been able to hold each other accountable for years and years and years, and it's only grown since then.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_03: And now there's like a full trust there, you know.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_03: Like she can trust that I can get something done, and I can trust that she can get something done.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_03: And all of that comes from having those memories and working through those struggles together.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_01: What would you give for advice for those young musicians?
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_01: I literally just talked to a band last week.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_01: We get DMs from young bands asking, like, can you hook me up with so-and-so manager?
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like, there are certain gates that are there for reasons where it's like you guys aren't ready for a manager.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_01: You would break up probably if you if you got a manager and they're not on the same page.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_01: And so, how how have you guys worked through that accountability?
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_01: Because it's not always easy.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_01: There's creative differences, there's ego that gets involved, whether we like to talk about that or not.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_01: How do you sift through the accountability in those awkward conversations?
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_00: Genuinely, just talking to each other.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_00: Like genuinely.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_00: Like sometimes there'll be times where Josh will just because we live together, we live in this house together.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and actually, like half of our oh everybody's here.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_00: We there's like a bandhouse.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but genuinely, we'll sit in this kitchen at like midnight.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I'm about to go to bed, and he's sitting here doing whatever, and we'll just talk for like an hour.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_00: We talk about everything, every detail, everything, everything.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_00: He's on every email, he knows what's going on.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um yeah, like I we I try to keep him updated as much as possible on every detail.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_00: And he's in every email.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_00: You can read he reads every email, he knows everything that's going on.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_00: And I I do think it's uh you know you really gotta, you really gotta talk, talk.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_00: It's just like genuine, we're like we're literally best friends, and it's just like in an actual relationship dating somebody, you have to communicate, you have to have conversations that are hard sometimes.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and that's what we do.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_00: If things are awkward, things are weird, too bad.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_00: That's life.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_03: The I will say that at the times when when we wanna have bring up something where we were are worried about how the other person's gonna react in that conversation, that's the best time to have it.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_03: It really is.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_03: Like you have to be comfortable with being uncomfortable.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_03: And um, and that goes a long way.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_03: Because at the end of the day, after 30 minutes, you're like, oh wow, that the hard stuff took 15 minutes, and now we can spend the you know the next 45 minutes or 30 minutes or whatever of this conversation talking about the next goals.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, because we've already fleshed out the problems or situations that we had to go through.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_03: Like right now, the whole you know, rack situation and trying to figure that out.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_03: Like it's a conversation that we have to have with multiple people, but we know at the end it's gonna get it's gonna get figured out.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um so yeah, yeah.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_01: What's the rack situation you guys have going on?
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_00: So we decided to rebuild our racks because they're our ones were old, so they were like six years old.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_00: So it was time.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so we got most our got our friend Nick who built out the racks, he um pretty much got them set up, but then he had to leave on tour.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_00: And we were missing some stuff from Sen Heiser, and uh we ordered a bunch of stuff, and then I'm putting it all together because we rehearse tomorrow.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, and I get uh we get there and I'm like, Nick, I think we're missing something.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_00: He's like, What are we missing?
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, I was like, I think we're missing the fins, which is essentially how the uh all of our in-year systems, uh, that's the antennas.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um, for anybody who doesn't know what that is, but like it's the antennas so that we get signal uh and we're missing those.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_00: So we can't like we literally can't perform without them.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_00: So we're in uh we just emailed Sen and we're like, hey, uh, can we pick them up?
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_00: I don't really know what to do.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and we're learning too.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, we're like thankfully, we've been able to strip down our rack to where it's just we'd be able to like plug and play.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_03: But when you're rebuilding uh a system like this, it's a lot of learning.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_03: And it we're doing it ourselves.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and so it's like we're learning as we're going along, even to this day.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and um, and sometimes people can be like, oh, I don't want to do this, I don't want to touch this because it's not my wheelhouse.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_03: Like that it goes back to holding yourself accountable.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_03: Like, it's time to learn, you know.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_03: Like you may not feel comfortable understanding these subjects.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_03: Like, I definitely don't, but right now it's like, oh, I have to learn this, I have to figure this out because our show depends on it.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, learn your rack.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's important for every single person in a band to understand, not not maybe not how to build the thing, but at least how to put it together at bare minimum, how to scan your packs and your mics and your etc.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_00: Like bare minimum, learn the small things.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_00: Just so that if something hits the fan on stage, anyone can fix it.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_00: Anyone, it doesn't have to be like if one person's doing something, somebody else can run up and fix it.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_00: So it's just like learn the look just a little bit, even just a small.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it's a part of your show, you know.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_03: So it's like you might there's times where like bands will work with front of house techs or a tech in general before a tour that does great work, but those techs may not be out on the road with you when those situations happen.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_03: If you're learning the thing that they're building, then you can work on the fly and be like, or you know, call them like, hey, I got this done and this done, this done, uh, but this is not working.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_03: What do I do next?
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_03: You know?
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_03: And we've had those situations so many times where there's just inconsistent power or inconsistent RF, whatever it may be.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_03: And um, you know, don't just do it.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_03: Just pick up the phone, just call someone, or you look on YouTube or whatever, you know, just do it.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I love that.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_01: And Kaylee, you said something a minute ago, or both of you did, that made so much sense.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_01: And I want to just go back to that quick.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_01: There's almost a level of this extreme collaborative transparency.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_01: When you're in a band together, it's a partnership, it's a it's a business.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_01: You're friends and you're almost like siblings at times, but there's almost a business element or many business elements to it where being on the emails and just being forthcoming really does help push the needle forward and allow you guys to get to a place where you can have a conversation about signing a record deal with uh with an Epitaph or something like that.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_01: But also that extreme accountability of, like you said, Josh, like you're not comfortable doing X, Y, and Z, but there are skills that you have to stack when even at the reality of being on a label like that, maybe you don't have all the text you need just yet, and you still do have to DIY it.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_01: Or like you said, Kaylee, if something hits the fan on stage, which more often than not it's going to, especially on a festival when you have everybody's everybody's frequency going on all the stages, and there's a million people with cell phones, you know, you have to know all those skills.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that cannot be understated for these young musicians.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_01: YouTube is out there, there are amazing musicians.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_01: Like, like you said, you'll answer a DM.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_01: Like there's definitely plenty of resources out there, and props to you guys for both going down that and and doing that to get to you to this point.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks, man.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_01: Talk to me about like economics of before the band got signed and when you guys started actually making money, as you said.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_01: What's it like working other jobs?
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_01: You know, is there a little bit of imposter syndrome of like doing shows and making videos and being on the road, but also working a side hustle or two to actually pay the bills?
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_01: And at what point can you actually shut that off and stop working those side hustles?
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_00: We actually both still we make money from the band, but we still work.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_00: Uh mainly because we come home and it's more like a boredom thing than anything.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's just like there's what do I do when I'm here?
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but I do graphic design.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, I have for over a decade, about as long as this band's been around.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_00: I've been doing um artist merchandising.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um and Josh, you're just working at the warehouse right now, right?
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, like I do, I have I work a warehouse job.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, well, he also does uh I do a lot of graphics and marketing and stuff like that too, as well, for social media and stuff.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_03: And I have some fantastic clients.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_03: But I think the big I I'm a type of person like when I come home from tour, like I definitely get depressed.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_03: And if I know that I have something to look forward to that is also work related and makes me an income, I'm gonna I'm gonna run to it, you know.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, rather than just sitting around doing nothing.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, because it's kind of boring.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_03: It is, and like, and to be quite honest, that's where a lot of you know negative situations can happen when when you come home and you have and you're so used to the highs of tour, which is like playing in front of people and stuff like that.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_03: But if you have something that you can come home to, whether it's uh a part-time job or a full-time job or just another creative outlet, um, I think it's very important as creative individuals, whether you're young or you know, middle-aged or way older, you know, just having something to kind of go to that has nothing to do really with your band or or music in general.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um outside uh stimulation, yeah, like mentally.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it really is.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_03: And it allows your brain to kind of shut off one side and kind of open up the other side, you know, and you have to have a happy medium in this world.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and without that, I think we would just go insane, to be quite honest.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_01: But also for the young bands that are going out there and not making money in the band yet, what an incredible time to be alive where something like graphic design, you're still getting your creative outlet out there that you can do for your band as well and save budget because you're doing it yourself.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but you can do that stuff from the road.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_01: There was a time when I'm sure you guys are touring back in the day that Wi-Fi wasn't accessible and you didn't have a laptop where you could just pop it open in the van.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_01: There's so many things that there's so many skills that young musicians can stack that are just easily accessible to do on the road and can actually bring revenue in uh while you're on the road trying to chase the dream of being in a band.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, a hundred percent.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_00: Like um Raoul, Never Tell He produces, John Lindeen from Point North produces, uh, I do graphic design, Pink Noise does graphic design, like finding something else that you could do you know on the road um in some capacity is is goaded.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's so it's so goaded.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and also something to do when you get home.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_00: Because again, like touring is only three, four months of the year.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_00: What do you do the other eight besides I guess riding?
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_00: So, like, what do you do for six months?
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you have to find something to do.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_00: You can't just sit around.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I guess you could, but not me.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_03: I'll be honest, there's so many artists and bands right now that have remote jobs that they are doing on the road because touring in a band is expensive.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_03: Like you're gonna have, yes, you might get like a great deal with a you know a good check, but at that same time, like you won't be able to that's gotta that's gotta last, you know, a a career's worth of time, which could be many years.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_03: And so having something that you can kind of rely on that's on the back end, it's it makes it less chaotic.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_01: What are some of the most expensive things about touring these days?
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_01: You know, because obviously you got rental van, rental sprinter, bandwagon, bus.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_01: What are from from your level where you guys have toured so far in your experience, what's the most expensive thing about touring?
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_01: Gas.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_03: No, I just want to say that.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_03: The rising price of gas.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_03: You're not wrong, but it's not gas.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_03: It's actually merchandise.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_00: Merch is so expensive.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_00: Or um crew, crew paying crew is really expensive.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um, rentals can be really expensive.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it all kind of stacks.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_00: Honestly, between merch, crew, and rentals, those are all really similar.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_00: I guess it depends on what you tour in because bandwagons are obviously really expensive, but like an RV is probably cost as much as merch, uh, and your crew probably costs as much as those.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_00: So they're kind of like I get, but it again, it depends on what you're in.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_00: Like, obviously, a bus is gonna cost way more than an RV.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and and if you're in a bus, you have a lot more crew and you need a lot more merch.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_00: So maybe they just stack.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_00: We haven't gotten there yet.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_00: I'll let you know when I'm in a bus.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um get there.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_01: Did you, you know, again, the DIY aspect of this, understanding and learning your business.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_01: At what point did you know how to start doing that math and where the break-even, where the return on going on the road was actually worth it, and you're not gonna come home severely in debt.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, uh, I will say we've been really fortunate.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_00: I'm I am a math person and I budget like crazy.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, when we first started touring, we slept in the van.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um, we uh never got hotels really ever.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_03: Um and we so many cold nights.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_00: So many or hot.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_00: Or hot.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um but genuinely, like we, I was really good at budgeting and I was like, we just can't do it yet.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_00: And so we like we very rarely came back with no money.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_00: It was really rare.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_00: Like we usually like break even.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_00: Like we'd be like, for a long time we broke even.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um and then uh, and as you get bigger, you have to scale up too.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_00: So it's like you start making more money, but now you're spending more money because now you added a tech, and now you added, you know, now you're no longer in a van, or you're in a van, but you're getting hotels, you added a driver.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_00: So it kind of starts, you know, uh going up and up, but like um just finding the best ways to budget to where it's like you either come home with something or at bare minimum breaking even because.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: Then at least you know you're not losing money and because no one wants to come home from tour thirty thousand dollars a net.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_00: So you can enjoy that.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, spreadsheets.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_00: Spreadsheets are your best friend.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_01: That's awesome.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_01: On the budget topic, that video you guys are talking about with Epitaph, that must have cost a lot of money.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_01: Who who put the budget together for that?
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_01: And what like the approval process?
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_01: How much did that thing cost?
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_01: Like, was it within budget?
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_01: Was it under budget?
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_01: Talk to me about that.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_01: That's our most expensive video we've ever done.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um so I met up with the videographers, which is Ray and God, what's the other guy's name?
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna go.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_03: Red Red Fox Productions.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_00: Red Fox Productions is the I'm blanking on his name.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_00: I uh it's gonna, I literally have a meeting with him after this.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_00: I I can't, I need to figure that out.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_00: Uh um, but uh sorry.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but uh I I came to them with the idea and I said, this is what I want to do.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um, what would this cost if we had no budget?
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_00: Because that's like the first, like, where are we gonna sit?
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um and they came back.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um it was hot, it was like$45,000.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, okay, we need to be the idea.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and we removed a couple things, cut out a couple things, and um, for full disclosure, we spent$35,000 on that music video.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_03: Um not in not even including flights and like you know, hotels.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_00: So we probably ended up spending probably$40,000.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, yeah, easily.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_00: Roughly$40,000, um, which is a lot for a music video of a band our size.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_00: It came out really cool.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um crushed.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_01: And I I honestly was I was thinking 10 times that, you know, like, and that's a genuine question that I'm curious about because I want musicians to understand what it took you all to get to this point, because that music video is the beginning from what I'm seeing as you guys building out this world that you mentioned earlier, Josh.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_01: And so that to me, from an epitaph side, from you guys' side, investing that money is a is a positive, you're gonna get a positive return because from here now, that's the standard of now what you guys have to deliver night after night, your merch, things like that.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_01: And keeping that consistency going is now gonna cost that additional money that you guys are at.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_01: And it's obvious that you put the time in building those spreadsheets.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_01: And it the point is, it doesn't just happen.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_01: You don't just get a music video like that overnight.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_01: Like it takes a lot of planning and a lot of support and backing to understand hands in the middle, we're spending 40k on a music video.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_01: Let's go.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um, we after this one, our the my ideas get a little bit more simple.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, the big expenditure on that music video was the location.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, the location was like 10 grand.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it was a very expensive location.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but so worth it because it like literally was exactly my vision of what I wanted.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, I don't want anything else.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_00: So figure it out.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but the other two are not, shouldn't be as crazy.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_00: And I just said two.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_00: So now people know that I'm gonna be happy.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_01: Sorry, Felicity.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_01: That's my good.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_01: But be realistic of the the the the next ones until you can do that again.
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe new record, maybe new big song drop, whatever that may be.
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and also, too, you guys could have green screen that.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_01: What was the thought process of spending 10K on the actual location to make it, I'm sure, authentic feeling and all that?
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what was the thought process there of actually investing that money?
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_00: I wanted it to be as physical as possible.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_00: All the videos are as physical as I possibly can get them without using visual effects.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um and I would have loved to hire a bunch of ships to sail, and but that just wasn't it wasn't the budget.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_00: So um, but I would have loved to, what is his name?
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_00: Uh Guatemalo, Guatemero to uh Frankenstein Guillermo the room.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I would have loved to do that, but unfortunately, I just don't have 10, 20 million dollars or whatever he paid.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_03: I will say, thankfully, I mean, we are in a in an era where technology is looks looks great.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, he did a great job.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_00: He absolutely slayed the visual effects in that.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, definitely.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_03: And so, like, you there's a lot of things that we have at our disposal now that we didn't have in say like the early 2000s, right?
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_03: Like to do a music to honestly it if we Unreal Engine alone is like insane.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know how people do it.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_03: That's crazy.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but yeah, I mean, if you could have if you would have tried to do this music video back in like say 2010, it would have been a lot more expensive.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_03: Would have been a hundred thousand dollars.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, you know, if not more.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, um, but thankfully with with technology, I mean, you could you could find and with great production companies like Red Fox, uh you can work within a budget and do something really, really cool.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but but yeah, yeah, um, sorry, but in general, sorry, John.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_00: Uh but in general, uh yeah, just I'm trying to keep them as physical as possible.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_00: But like full disclosure, like we spend a lot of money on that video.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I'm I'm an all or nothing person.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_00: I it's either gonna look really cool or I'm not gonna do it at all.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I don't if we're gonna spend the money, let's spend the money and make it cool as hell.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_00: So I love that.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_01: So you guys have worked with a lot of amazing people.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_01: Obviously, the production company that we're talking about now, co-writes and and different things.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_01: You you called out a couple earlier, John London, Pink Noise, Never Tell Roll.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_01: How do you collab with people?
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_01: How do you get in the rooms?
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_01: Is it easier than it looks?
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_01: Talk to me about that process for you guys of creating genuine partnerships and friendships that lead to co-writes and things like that.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_00: All of our producers we've worked with have, I've known them.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_00: They're just people that I've known through time.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um when it comes to like co-writes, because there's a uh like pink noise, I just message them.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_00: I just hey you want to come write?
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and that was it.
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so yeah.
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then it's just a lot of like knowing people, just like through the years, and then like and keeping up with them too.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but also you you can just email people.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_00: You can just email them and be like, hey, I want to write a song.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_00: Can we do that?
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_00: And I guarantee you they'll probably respond.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_00: So you know that's that's one.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um you'd be really surprised at how many people would would will respond to emails about working together.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's more more than you think.
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_00: I just think people get scared and they're like, oh, what if they don't respond?
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_00: Who cares?
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_00: Then they didn't respond.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_01: Or what if they look at my Instagram and don't like me or something?
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_01: Chances are they're gonna respond, and chances are they're gonna say something to the positive, even if it's a handoff, like, hey, I'm busy right now, but check out my other friend that you would vibe with perfectly.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_01: I know somebody for you.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you just don't know.
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_00: Like Red Fox, for example, I didn't know them.
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_00: They did uh somebody else's music video that I saw, and I was like, I want to hit them up.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_00: Oh and then they were like, Yeah, let's do it.
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I was like, Cool, easy.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_00: Wow, that was sometimes I just send an email.
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_01: That was you, that wasn't the label or anything, that was you actually writing out that reaching out.
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_00: Our manager did, but yeah, it was me who found them, and I was like, I want we need to reach out to them.
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_00: And that's awesome.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, you just gotta go for it.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_01: And we all see the we all see the clips online of like just go for it, just go for it.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_01: It's easier said than done.
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_01: And I want to talk to you guys about confidence.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_01: You made a comment earlier of getting your reps of playing shows to kind of get out some of the some of the awkwardness of being on stage.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_01: Talk to me about that growth with you both individually and together as a band, especially now forming this world.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_01: How do young musicians get to the point of being confident to putting themselves out there?
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, um I've always had mildly blind confidence.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, I was born with that.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_00: I have since I was little.
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I was just always blindly confident.
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, but as time went on, I just, and especially with age, like I'm 32 years old.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not, I'm not that young.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_00: So um, as you get older too, you kind of just stop caring what people think.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_00: You just, I don't care.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you don't like me, you don't like my music, you don't want to work with me.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_00: There's how many people on planet Earth?
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_00: Like, someone's going to want to, someone's going to believe in me, someone's going to care.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_00: And it's just about finding your your tribe and like the people who like will ride for you.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and you know, I mean, there's bands out there who are huge who got passed over.
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_00: Like, it just, you know, sometimes people don't see the vision and sometimes people do.
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_00: And then later, those people who didn't, I, you know, bit, they're like, ah, fuck, missed that one.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_00: You know, like it just is what is.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_00: So um genuinely, I just like the like I've always, I've always, it's a little, it's a little dark, but like uh my motto is like life is really like like if you really break it down in a hundred years from now, no one's gonna remember me.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_00: No one's gonna know who I am.
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_00: And even if you're Michael Jackson, you think in a thousand years people are gonna remember who Michael Jackson is?
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe, who knows?
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_00: And it's just like you're gonna die.
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_00: So why not just like take the shot, take the opportunity?
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_00: Life's short.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_00: Who cares?
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_00: You embarrassed yourself once, great.
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_00: You have 80 other years to not do that.
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_00: Like, lesson learned, move forward.
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, it's just like I genuinely think it's like the the less you care, the better.
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_00: And I know that's such a crazy statement because everyone's like, you have to care, you have to do it, but like I do care.
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_00: I just don't, life's short, it's just silly, you know.
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_00: Just take the shot.
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it's a Wayne Gretzky.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_03: It's a stepping stone too, you know.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_03: It's like I I definitely was some I I you're less confident than me.
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_03: You've gotten a lot, he's gotten so much better.
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_03: I I really have.
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, I I I struggle with confidence issues because I was a I was an overweight kid for most of my life.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_03: And uh I was a really quiet kid for most of my life.
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_03: But being in a band and sitting behind a drum set like that allowed me to find my my first voice, as I like to say.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_03: And um that grew into a uh a confident world that I now live in to where like I can look at something and be like, I know I'm gonna struggle with this subject because I don't really know what I'm doing.
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_03: But I'm confident in myself and my abilities and um and the people around me to ask questions on when I or to lean on when I don't have that, uh the answers to my questions.
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_03: But I'm confident in my ability to know that if I want something, I'm gonna go after it.
• 32:21
  SPEAKER_03: And that I've always known.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_03: But I think it took me time to figure out how to navigate that properly.
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and now it's you know, like taking taking on the comic book, for example, like that's a that's a lot of like mental strain on on just one person.
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_03: And so having someone like Kaylee to being able to build this with her and having a team around us to be able to be like, yes, we like this, we see what your vision is, let's go for it.
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_03: Um, that also allows more of that confident boost to come into play.
• 32:49
  SPEAKER_03: So it's sometimes it takes time, but when you see the little wins, like that should be something that boosts you to be like, I can go further into this.
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 33:00
  unknown: Yeah.
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_01: Tell me more about the comic book.
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_01: What what brought up the idea?
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_01: What is some of the inspiration behind it?
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_01: What's the end goal?
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_01: What can people expect?
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_03: Well, we actually we thought about doing a comic book a long time ago.
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um it's just a lot of it's a it was a lot.
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_03: Um and so many revisions, so many different storylines.
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I like I had the idea for the music videos uh kind of laid out.
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_00: And I was in this weird position where I was like, I don't know how to get from point A to point B in those music videos.
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, Josh, and we were talking to how was it we started talking about comics or something, and then I was like, dude, we should do a comic in between the music videos to get from point A to point B.
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_00: And that's what we did.
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_00: So the first music video leads into the comic, which leads into the second music video, which leads into the second comic, which leads into the last music video.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_00: They all are connected.
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you won't understand the music videos unless you watch the comic, read the comics.
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um and we really like I'm still writing it out and finalizing all the little details and like as we're going.
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but like it's the story's pretty much it's fleshed out.
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_00: It's just like the little fine details, and we're like, okay, this doesn't make sense.
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_00: How do what do we need to add in order for this to make sense?
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_00: Does it and we were talking about it last night actually?
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_00: Was that last night or night before?
• 34:19
  SPEAKER_00: Whatever.
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um and uh I was like, man, you don't realize how much effort it takes to write a story until you write a story.
• 34:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_00: Because there's like, okay, this is going on, but why did that happen?
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_00: And how, where does that go?
• 34:33
  SPEAKER_00: And why, and then, but how does that interact with this character and why is this character here?
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_00: And it's just like we have a board upstairs that was just stuff.
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it was just ideas, how the things led into what, this, that, this, like it was it was intense.
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_03: It was intense.
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_03: And I I was I was telling Kaylee the other night, uh, we were talking about this.
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_03: Like, I'm so fortunate that she's a longtime reader of books and stuff like that.
• 34:57
  SPEAKER_00: And TV shows and anything.
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and just like we're we're very visual people, but the fact that she's read so many books that have had so many different, like, not iterations, but like expanding titles of these books and these story arcs, it helps us being able to go back to these things and be like, oh yeah, like that's how they married these two parts together.
• 35:17
  SPEAKER_03: And um, yeah, I mean, it's it's it's a big undertaking, but it's so fun knowing that we're doing it ourselves and we're not relying on a on a whole comic book production team.
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's literally just me and Josh.
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it's literally just us.
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_03: And it's so cool because again, it goes back to us being like, damn, we've never done this before, but we're doing it, and that's another confident boost into real into us realizing, oh, we can go further.
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_03: What you say, like you know, music fall apart or whatever it is, like the fact that we've been able to do this now opens up so many other doors in each of our individual lives to go do more cool creative stuff.
• 35:51
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_01: So just doing, doing and and that's that's just the name of the game, I feel like, is just putting the reps out there and putting yourself out there builds confidence.
• 35:59
  SPEAKER_01: You can try and fail.
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_01: And comic book two will probably be better than comic book one because all the way through you guys interacting with your fans, talking about comic book one, you're gonna get ideas of like, oh, actually, that's cool.
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_01: If you don't put it out in the world, those light bulb moments and those opportunities never present themselves.
• 36:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and that's another big thing.
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_00: I was talking to Josh and um our merch guy who also lives here, Spence.
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_00: And we were literally discussing about how like stories and music and all this stuff, like it takes time.
• 36:29
  SPEAKER_00: And I think like people, like especially fans and stuff, are like, oh, we want an album now.
• 36:33
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, Well, it's gonna take time.
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_00: Like it takes time to think of the ideas, to write the songs, but I don't like that, how that style sounds.
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_00: Like, let's try something else.
• 36:41
  SPEAKER_00: And it's the same with the comic.
• 36:43
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I I wrote out the story, the story's been written over like months, yeah.
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_00: Months of writing, and then like months of like him like drawing everything out, the the the sketches, the this, the that, us going back and forth.
• 36:56
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, that doesn't make sense.
• 36:57
  SPEAKER_00: And like it takes time, so much time.
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_00: And that's like not even just comic book, that's like even music, that's like concept of albums, that's what's the album art, what's inside the album art physically, like merch, what is the merch, how does the merch tie in?
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_00: Like, it just all takes time, and that's like it's hard.
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_00: It's just it's just a lot.
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_00: So it's like I guess what I'm trying to say is like take your time, but don't take too long and and and take the shots because like that's all you can do.
• 37:27
  SPEAKER_01: So as an as an artist, based on everything you just said, the amount of time that it takes, right?
• 37:31
  SPEAKER_01: And being a creative, and like you said earlier, you want to put out the best version of your art.
• 37:37
  SPEAKER_01: The reality sometimes is, you know, I'm sure like the comic, you'd want it with holographic emboss and all the things.
• 37:44
  SPEAKER_01: What sort of amends do you have to make when it gets down to actually pressing go on a t-shirt?
• 37:50
  SPEAKER_01: You know, a four-color t-shirt versus a two-color t-shirt.
• 37:53
  SPEAKER_01: Like there are different costs involved that you have to lower your standards sometimes as an artist.
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_01: That's just the reality of it.
• 37:59
  SPEAKER_01: We all know that we wish it wasn't that way, but how does that feel?
• 38:03
  SPEAKER_01: And what kind of amends are you willing to make that you've learned over the years?
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_01: Or like, I'm good with that.
• 38:07
  SPEAKER_01: It's still good enough to what we want to put out into the world.
• 38:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I will say the music video was a really good example of that because it's like I got most of what I wanted, but um, we were gonna get like an actual crane, like a whole crane.
• 38:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and they were like, I was like, it just was it was like eight grand for the day.
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, you know, so we ended up settling on this, like, it's like sort of like a crane.
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_03: Uh it's like a giant it's like a giant gimbal, but it's I mean, it is huge gimbal.
• 38:35
  SPEAKER_03: It gets up there.
• 38:35
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, I think it was 15, 20 feet or something like that.
• 38:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um and it was like, it wasn't exactly, but it was like it was close enough that I was like, okay, that'll work.
• 38:45
  SPEAKER_00: Or it's like sometimes outfits or yeah, like sometimes a shirt.
• 38:48
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, or like printing on a hoodie, right?
• 38:50
  SPEAKER_00: Like you have the front and the back, and then you want both arms, and like it costs money to print on each section of a hoodie.
• 38:56
  SPEAKER_00: Every time you print in a new area, it's more money.
• 38:59
  SPEAKER_00: So I it's sometimes it's like, okay, well, let's only do one arm because then that's gonna save us a thousand dollars.
• 39:04
  SPEAKER_00: And it's really close to what I had envisioned.
• 39:08
  SPEAKER_00: But you know, let's pull it back so we can drop down the cost so that we're not losing money.
• 39:13
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 39:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um, we even with like at the end of the day, it's a business, right?
• 39:16
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, exactly.
• 39:17
  SPEAKER_03: I was gonna say, even with the armor, like I remember that you had you had purchased this awesome armor piece, which was hundreds of dollars and looks sick, but we were like, we didn't have anything for me, and we didn't want to spend a bunch of money on getting a whole other set.
• 39:29
  SPEAKER_03: But she had these armor pieces that she wasn't using for her outfit.
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_03: So I was like, let me just put these on real quick and see how it looks, and it looked great, you know.
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_03: It's adding 25 pounds to my hands as like as I'm playing, so it's like it's a lot.
• 39:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, by the way, that armor was heavy.
• 39:45
  SPEAKER_00: It literally, I had bruises around my whole back.
• 39:49
  SPEAKER_00: My legs were covered in bruises.
• 39:50
  SPEAKER_00: I cuts, I was literally, I had a gash from like here to here from the armor rubbing against the back of my skin.
• 39:57
  SPEAKER_03: You literally bled on set.
• 39:58
  SPEAKER_00: I did, yeah.
• 39:59
  SPEAKER_03: I literally bled on set.
• 40:00
  SPEAKER_03: And we didn't even have a medic, you know, that's that's too expensive.
• 40:05
  SPEAKER_01: How long did that video take to shoot?
• 40:07
  SPEAKER_01: Was it a day or what how long was that?
• 40:09
  SPEAKER_00: It was literally like 8 a.m.
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_00: to 8 p.m.
• 40:12
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 40:13
  SPEAKER_01: So be willing to make amends to certain things, like you said, you know, maybe maybe no sleeves at all, but you have to be willing to make some of those sacrifices and the visual, you know, goals that you have, knowing that you'll likely get there at some point if you keep pushing forward.
• 40:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I think that's a hard reality for a lot of creatives, including myself, to realize like I want to make this movie, and it's like, well, dude, that's gonna cost 75 grand.
• 40:36
  SPEAKER_01: Pay it, and we'll do it.
• 40:38
  SPEAKER_03: Well, maybe next I have a funny story about the sword um that that we have in the music video because we couldn't find one online that was that was that looked cool and that was also within like the the the realm of our budget.
• 40:53
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, we literally had like a hundred dollars to find a sword.
• 40:56
  SPEAKER_03: And uh thankfully the Tennessee Renaissance Festival was in town that weekend that weekend, and I was like, you know what?
• 41:04
  SPEAKER_03: I'm just gonna go, I'm gonna buy a ticket and just take myself to the Renaissance Festival.
• 41:09
  SPEAKER_03: Never been to myself to been to one entirely ever in my in my whole life, but I just went by myself and I was like, I know there's gonna be cheap swords here.
• 41:16
  SPEAKER_03: They're either I just don't, we didn't want a foam sword, we didn't want like a like a like a cosplay movie prop.
• 41:21
  SPEAKER_03: We wanted something real in terms of.
• 41:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, also that sword was really heavy as well.
• 41:25
  SPEAKER_00: Everything on my body was really heavy.
• 41:26
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I think that sword is like 20 something pounds.
• 41:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it was heavy.
• 41:30
  SPEAKER_00: No, 10 maybe.
• 41:31
  SPEAKER_00: It was still it's heavy.
• 41:32
  SPEAKER_03: It's well that and the leather and everything.
• 41:34
  SPEAKER_03: And like I just remember uh going through all these different shops trying to find within the budget, and I just remember like barely any service, FaceTiming Kaylee being like, look at these swords, what I found, and there were so many cool things.
• 41:47
  SPEAKER_03: And then I picked up the sword and I was like, Whoa, this is sick, you know?
• 41:51
  SPEAKER_03: And that was the one that we ended up getting.
• 41:52
  SPEAKER_03: It was like$85.
• 41:53
  SPEAKER_03: And it's like I took the risk though, like I knew that I could have gone there and found nothing, right?
• 42:00
  SPEAKER_03: And then we wouldn't have had a sword for the music video.
• 42:03
  SPEAKER_03: But thankfully, I took the time out of my day and I trusted my ability and being able to find something, and and it worked, you know.
• 42:12
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I took the risk by myself, and it it was a last minute risk, but it was worth it in the end.
• 42:18
  SPEAKER_03: It was very much worth it.
• 42:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, why?
• 42:20
  SPEAKER_01: I love it.
• 42:20
  SPEAKER_01: Well, take both of y'all, take me back to early teenage you looking at all the things that you've accomplished.
• 42:27
  SPEAKER_01: What do you think nowadays kids, teenagers, aspiring musicians need in their lives that you guys didn't have then that you wish you had?
• 42:34
  SPEAKER_00: TikTok, Instagram, and it's sort of real.
• 42:37
  SPEAKER_00: It's so annoying to film the content.
• 42:39
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my god, it's so annoying.
• 42:41
  SPEAKER_00: And it's such a drain, and that's like not what I want to do, but like it works.
• 42:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it really works.
• 42:46
  SPEAKER_03: Um and that's allowed you to get better at film editing too.
• 42:50
  SPEAKER_00: It has, yeah.
• 42:50
  SPEAKER_00: I've gotten way better with a camera, which is sick.
• 42:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and um, I'm trying to think of what else.
• 42:58
  SPEAKER_00: Social media in general.
• 42:59
  SPEAKER_00: Social media in general.
• 43:00
  SPEAKER_00: Because when we when I like we started, like all we had was Facebook, and like no, you had to pay money to do anything on Facebook or for anything to go viral or whatever.
• 43:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and we never really did YouTube, so um, not until like a couple years ago when we were bored and just started a podcast that we never we did like 20 episodes and then never do it again.
• 43:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um uh life, you know, life takes over.
• 43:24
  SPEAKER_03: Um and um I would say even like technology with like the production at home studio stuff.
• 43:30
  SPEAKER_00: Uh our racks, you need like half the amount of gear you used to need.
• 43:34
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 43:34
  SPEAKER_00: Fire.
• 43:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 43:36
  SPEAKER_03: Fire fire.
• 43:38
  SPEAKER_03: Um home studios too.
• 43:39
  SPEAKER_00: Home studios, yeah.
• 43:40
  SPEAKER_00: It's way easier.
• 43:42
  SPEAKER_00: Which I mean, I didn't, I mean, when I was when I I started, we home studios were already kind of like a thing.
• 43:47
  SPEAKER_03: True, true, true.
• 43:48
  SPEAKER_00: We haven't been doing making it seem like we're 47 years old.
• 43:53
  SPEAKER_03: Um I don't know.
• 43:54
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, I think overall technology and social media has been a massive proponent in us being able to excel.
• 44:01
  SPEAKER_00: Um, any and that's the thing is anybody can excel.
• 44:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, like anybody can take their phone and film content and do well.
• 44:09
  SPEAKER_03: Um But it is it is about believing in yourself and having that confidence and realizing being a little cringe, you know.
• 44:15
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
• 44:16
  SPEAKER_03: Like make the jump.
• 44:17
  SPEAKER_03: Like take you take a leap of faith into yourself, into learning something new or going back to something.
• 44:23
  SPEAKER_03: Like if you can take out, if you can extract your own ego, right?
• 44:27
  SPEAKER_03: Like, oh, I know that I'm I'm only good at this one thing, so I'm gonna just stick to my lane and only be good at this one thing.
• 44:33
  SPEAKER_03: Like when we're when we're a child, when we're young, you know, like you want to do everything.
• 44:38
  SPEAKER_03: You know, you want to be good at this, you want to be good at that.
• 44:40
  SPEAKER_03: And sometimes it's hard to navigate where you want to go with it.
• 44:44
  SPEAKER_03: But if you can take it all in now, especially like being at 14, 15, or 16 years old, like perfect example.
• 44:51
  SPEAKER_03: I'm going, I've been going to the school of rock to learn guitar uh for the last like couple months now.
• 44:57
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm I'm amazed at how talented these kids are who are 15, 16, 13, even.
• 45:03
  SPEAKER_03: And um, I'm literally going to the same teacher that they do.
• 45:07
  SPEAKER_03: And I I had to extract that ego out of myself and be like, no, I'm gonna be as a child again and just allow my brain to be a sponge into taking something and learning something new.
• 45:18
  SPEAKER_03: Because I know ultimately if I get better at one thing, something new, it's gonna help me overall with the other thing that I love doing, which is drums.
• 45:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I love that, dude.
• 45:26
  SPEAKER_01: Props, man.
• 45:27
  SPEAKER_01: That's so sick that you're doing that.
• 45:29
  SPEAKER_01: We do a lot with School of Rock, and like you said, I'm constantly amazed at these 13-year-old kids that are just shredding and like called out earlier.
• 45:36
  SPEAKER_01: There's YouTube.
• 45:36
  SPEAKER_01: You know, these kids can go on YouTube, there's spots like School of Rock where you can go and just double and triple down on that, you know, and be the best at what you want to be.
• 45:44
  SPEAKER_01: It's amazing.
• 45:45
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 45:46
  SPEAKER_01: Well, dang, Kaylee, Josh, thank you so much for spending time talking about the fundamentals and real behind the scenes of being in a band.
• 45:53
  SPEAKER_01: You guys have an incredible rest of the year.
• 45:55
  SPEAKER_01: Everybody make sure to go follow Rivals.
• 45:57
  SPEAKER_01: New record out.
• 45:58
  SPEAKER_01: I'm sure there's more music videos and from what it sounds like, some incredible comics coming our way.
• 46:02
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, again, thank you guys so much for spending time with Loyal to the Craft.
• 46:05
  SPEAKER_01: We appreciate it.
• 46:06
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much for having us.
• 46:08
  SPEAKER_01: See you guys out there.
• 46:09
  SPEAKER_00: Bye.