Latest / Millennial Mustard Seed / S6 234. Anita & Carly - The Cassandra Effect: Church Hurt, and Walking the Narrow Path with Grace

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S6 234. Anita & Carly - The Cassandra Effect: Church Hurt, and Walking the Narrow Path with Grace · Millennial Mustard Seed

• 0:01
  Hello folks, this is Princess. You are listening to the
• 0:04
  Millennial Mustard Seed podcast. Thanks for listening.
• 0:07
  Don't forget to share with your friends.
• 0:11
  That's tough. We're in a very tough spot.
• 0:13
  I think that what we're doing right now is a great benefit and
• 0:17
  virtue because it's an end around between this whole
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  corrupt informational system, media system.
• 0:25
  We claim to believe in a God who spoke the universe into
• 0:28
  existence and literally raised himself from the dead, and yet
• 0:33
  we are not going to believe that anything else exists in the
• 0:36
  spirit realm, even though His word tells us.
• 0:38
  That they do. Their bodies weren't permitted
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  to go to sleep like humans do, and they weren't permitted to go
• 0:45
  to heaven. So they wander the earth.
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  You know, I've seen the eyes turn black to unknown tongues
• 0:52
  being spoken. These giants would live way up
• 0:56
  in the Highland. The young Braves, the young men
• 0:59
  would hide up in the trees and wait for one of these 12 footers
• 1:02
  to come walking down the path and they would jump on them and
• 1:05
  kill them, drag them back to the village, and the village would
• 1:08
  feast on the body freedom. Then people start to get
• 1:16
  weapons, they start to get armor, they start to build
• 1:18
  cities, they start to fortify their cities now.
• 1:21
  God looks down and there's violence everywhere.
• 1:24
  The battle, this war that we are at, is not against each other.
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  It's against these principalities and these rulers
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  and these archons. In the high places.
• 1:32
  It's really worthwhile to read the Bible yourself.
• 1:35
  Fear. Is one of the.
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  Primary drivers of mind control because we have to take every
• 1:41
  thought captive and resist fear. You're going to have a testimony
• 1:49
  that is a justice case against the Kingdom of darkness.
• 2:27
  Welcome back to the Millennial Mustard Seed podcast.
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  I am your producer, creator and part time host Rod Smith and I'm
• 2:34
  doing the intro for this heartfelt episode that Carly
• 2:39
  does and she interviews Anita. Anita was on originally in
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  Season 4 episode 66 and season 5 episode 119.
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  She has a powerful testimony. Originally, Anita was the one
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  who inspired Carly to step out and have the courage to share
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  her own story here on the MMS. And today, Anita returns to
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  explore the difficult yet essential calling of prophetic
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  discernment in the church and how to navigate the pain of
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  being disregarded and the importance of stewarding both
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  grace and truth in the midst of this calling.
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  I wrote it in the book. The words are salt.
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  I said. Growing and learning while
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  healing and hurting is only for the wild at heart.
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  And both Carly and Anita are wild at heart.
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  Here are some of the core topics that get covered.
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  What is Cassandra Syndrome and why is it relevant to the modern
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  church? The narrow path of prophetic
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  calling. Humility, timing, and spiritual
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  maturity. Worship leaders.
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  Balancing freedom in the spirit with respect for leadership and
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  structure. Church hurt and spiritual abuse.
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  Finding peace through the boundaries and self stewardship.
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  Man, like I said, this is a heartfelt 1.
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  Anita gets emotional on this recording with Carly and they
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  really just kind of go back and forth and sharpen each other
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  with these amazing core topics that are covered.
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  This conversation needs to be had and this is the place to do
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  it because we love to facilitate the strange, the truth and all
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  the goodness, everything in between, every yacht and every
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  title. It's all important.
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  And some of the interesting back story is that, like I mentioned
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  briefly, Carly reached out after hearing Anita's episode and that
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  gave her the courage to step forward.
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  And I've played, you know, micros or like many segments of
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  Carly over the years. I interviewed her, I believe,
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  for four parts. She interviewed me for one part.
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  And now Carly is doing interviews here on the MMS.
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  So it's kind of a fascinating way that all of this is webbed
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  and weaved together. I love when these kind of
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  stories happen. But to see the fruit where these
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  two women are now having a conversation here on this
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  production, on this show where so many years of blood, sweat
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  and tear and just diligence and just non-stop, it's not been
• 5:11
  easy. But I see some for coming out of
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  it. So here are two quotes that I
• 5:17
  thought were really good. You don't owe anyone the
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  intimate places you've experienced with the Lord.
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  That's his inheritance in you, Carly says.
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  And Anita says He will never harm our spirit, but he will
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  crush every false identity we wear to reveal the jewel
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  underneath. And here's the maintenance
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  section for this intro. Like share and subscribe.
• 5:45
  You can find details in the show notes to my book.
• 5:47
  The words are salt. You can also find links to plant
• 5:50
  a seed in time of need. And if you have not left us a
• 5:54
  five star rating and review on your favorite podcast catcher,
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  please do that. If you are listening to my voice
• 6:00
  right now on Apple Podcast, leave us a dope written review
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  and five stars and share this episode far and wide.
• 6:08
  You guys, it is just the right thing to do.
• 6:14
  I think it's about time to jump into this episode.
• 6:18
  I'm ready. Are you guys ready?
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  Let's. Go, let's go.
• 6:35
  Welcome back to the millennial Mustard Seed podcast.
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  I'm so happy you're here to join us today, Anita.
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  So Anita was on season 4 episode 66 and season 5 episode 119.
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  And actually, it's her original interview, season 4 that
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  inspired me to write in. And part of the reason why was
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  because she interpreted her story as being not that strange
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  or remarkable. And it was very remarkable.
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  And it made me start to think about my own life, like, hey,
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  maybe there's something inside of my experiences that would
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  benefit other people. And it gave me the courage to
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  write in. And the Lord was like, Yep, if
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  you write in, you're going to be on the show.
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  And sure enough, it's been so much more than just being on the
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  show. And I thank God for you, for
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  your courage and your bravery to step forward and share what you
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  shared about your life. And I'm sure you've journeyed so
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  much more even since season 5. And today she's joining me
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  because a couple weeks ago we had a wonderful conversation
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  about what it is like to discern things in the church and have
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  your discernment and what you're hearing from the Lord be
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  completely disregarded. And I think we both decided that
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  that is probably not so uncommon for people to experience.
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  And why does that happen and how do we handle it and how do we
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  walk in grace and truth at the same time?
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  So welcome, Anita. Thank you, so glad to be here
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  again. Oh good, I'm so glad you're
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  here. So I wanted to start by telling
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  the story of Cassandra and Apollo.
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  Now we know that Greek mythology is what it is, so you guys use
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  your own discernment about that, but it's an interesting
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  archetype. So the brief overview of the
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  story of Cassandra and Apollo is that Apollo the God of prophecy,
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  supposedly. So when I say these things,
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  don't think that I'm trying to get you snared in witchcraft or
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  whatever. I'm just telling you, just
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  telling the story, folks. Apollo, the God of prophecy,
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  falls in love with Cassandra, a beautiful Trojan Princess.
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  She grants he I'm sorry. He grants her the gift of
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  prophecy in exchange for her love.
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  However, Cassandra later rejects Apollo, and in retaliation, he
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  curses her. Her prophecies become true, but
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  no one believes her. And so it's the archetype of
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  knowing the truth, knowing what's going to happen,
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  understanding, getting a word from the Lord, and then having
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  nobody believe you. And so, you know, I journeyed a
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  little farther in life and a friend of mine said, have you
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  ever heard of the Cassandra syndrome?
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  And I was like, why? No, I have not.
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  And in fact, it is a thing some of you will probably relate to.
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  I know I did. The Cassandra syndrome refers to
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  a phenomenon where a person repeatedly makes accurate
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  predictions or warnings that are ignored or disbelieved by
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  others. It is named after the Greek
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  mythological figure Cassandra, who we just talked about.
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  And So what ends up happening is you don't believe your own
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  experiences, you don't believe your inner intuition.
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  You start to gaslight yourself. And a lot of times it's it's
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  wrapped up in manipulation, it's wrapped up in institutional
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  ideology. It's it's wrapped up in
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  traditional, but it's something to look at, especially inside
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  the walls of the church. So I'm going to pass this off to
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  Anita, who has some really wonderful things to share about
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  her own experience journeying this.
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  Go ahead. OK, well in other episodes I
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  have talked about just some dreams and warnings from the
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  Lord that I've had. This did happen in it started in
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  20 or late 2019 to 2020. It was, it was really hard
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  because I had never, I'd seen, I had dreams, I had seen things
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  before, you know, in my youth, but I didn't know really what it
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  was. And I didn't know very much
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  about, I didn't know too much about prophetic things and I
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  didn't have anybody that that kind of helped me in that area.
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  And so in 2019-2020 is when they just, I was just flooded by so
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  many things, dreams, visions. I shared previously on other
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  episodes how this was something that I shared with my older sons
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  and I just never thought that it was.
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  I didn't understand because I was like, well, I'm not the one
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  that I'm not gifted in this way. Like, why is this happening?
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  Is this, is this real? Is it just all in my head?
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  My husband is the one that has the gifts of, of perfect things
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  where God would share things with them and then they would
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  happen or so I was just like, that's not for me.
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  And I and I just, but as it started happening more often, I
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  started to, to just begin to ask the Lord and like, what does
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  this mean? And there was a dream that I had
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  and these dreams that I, that I had around that time involved
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  people that I knew, involved some people that I didn't know,
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  but that I, that I would see regularly.
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  And it was really hard to maneuver that because it's like,
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  God, do I, do you want me to do I, am I supposed to share this?
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  Is this, you know, And so he did guide me to the people that I
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  was supposed to share it with. And it was it was hard because
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  it's like God will show you things about people, but it's
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  not sometimes it's for them to hear and sometimes it's just for
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  you to pray for them. And so that was hard and, and
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  sometimes and I didn't understand just the boundaries
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  of is this a safe? Is this somebody safe?
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  Or is this somebody that is going to take it and twist it
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  and call me, you know, a heretic or call me like so it was
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  really, it was really hard to maneuver that in that season.
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  The Lord did send mentors that that kind of walked me through
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  it and kind of, but it's just one of those things that I've
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  learned that you really have to just go to the Lord with it and
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  just trust him to tell you. This is what you can say.
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  This is this is for you to pray or, or he'll give you the grace
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  or somehow the opportunities will come where you're you have
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  no choice but to tell the person or it or it bubbles up.
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  So it's just like you can't keep it quiet.
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  It just comes out, but you know that it's that it's the Holy
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  Spirit. You know that it's that time to
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  act that he activates that boldness because it, and that
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  happened to me a few times where it was just like the plug came
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  out and it was, and it just came out and, and maybe it wasn't
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  like I felt it made things uncomfortable and I felt, but it
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  didn't matter what I felt. It was like all those feelings
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  were pushed aside and all that I had was boldness.
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  And, and that's kind of, that was one of the indicators for me
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  early on that this was the Holy Spirit pushed because I had no,
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  there was like, I didn't have time to think about it.
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  I didn't have time to analyze it or like, just because I, I'm an
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  overthinker and I feel like the way that I process is verbally.
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  So I'm as I'm speaking, sometimes it's just coming out
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  and I'm not able to like process it and it just comes out.
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  But what I've learned is the times where I'm where I'm just
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  free and that that's when the Lord gives me, he'll give me
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  this boldness and I just can't be quiet.
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  And it's just, and it comes out and as he's refining me and
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  discipline me and I'm just, and I'm choosing to discipline
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  myself in this area because what happens is oftentimes we'll be
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  given a word. We'll, we will feel something.
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  And sometimes I think the best way to know when to say it is,
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  is just the wisdom that he's given us over the years.
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  If, if, because you have to know when the Holy Spirit is saying
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  it's time to be silent, but then you also have, you have to know
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  when somebody else is trying to silence you.
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  And, and so it's, it's a thin line And just right now the
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  climate of the spiritual, there's just so much mixture.
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  And I think that mixture is bringing confusion because it's
• 15:28
  like, well, what's this voice or what's this voice?
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  And, and The Walking over the past few years, just really
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  getting to know the Lord. I can hear the difference
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  between when it's the Holy Spirit telling me and then when
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  it's the Father kind of like not disciplining me, but like kindly
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  reminding me of that he made me this way.
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  But these, these are the, this is where it gets dangerous for
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  me. Even though I know it's true, it
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  can be dangerous for me to, you know, to what he's working in
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  me. And so it's just like, I think
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  sometimes it's hard when you get a revelation because it's, you
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  just really have to like, like really pray into it, really
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  trust the Lord with it so that he can tell you this is the time
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  that that you're going to, I'm going to give you the boldness
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  and you can't stop it. It'll just come out.
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  But then also also disciplining myself to say, even though I
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  know it's right, even though I think it's the time I have to
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  trust the Lord because it can, if it's in the wrong time and if
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  it's to the wrong person, it can really 'cause damage.
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  So it's that's. True, he's been talking to me
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  too about the timing of these things.
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  It's like what I hear you saying is and feel free to correct any
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  of this, but you didn't really realize that the Lord was going
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  to use you in this way. And when he did it was it was a
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  little disorienting. So you had to learn how to walk
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  in that narrow place and it is a narrow place that needed it.
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  It is not something you can, I mean, think about the strict
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  adherence to the word of the Lord that was described in the
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  Old Testament, like you have to lay here on your left side for
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  however many days eating poopy bread, like it's so extreme.
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  And he that's why he doesn't choose everybody for that.
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  And I think what else I hear you saying is that you didn't
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  realize it was part of your identity that he would use you
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  in this way. And the the thing that it is
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  coming up for me when you talk about that is when he asks us to
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  speak on his behalf to people or to situations or in prayer,
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  making declarations, it can be tempting to take that moment and
• 17:56
  create an identity out of it, which quickly falls into
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  idolatry. Like nobody can say nothing to
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  me because I'm a prophet of the Lord, you know, and pretty soon
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  you're not accountable for the way you're impacting people.
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  And that's not right either, right?
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  Because the Lord held his prophets accountable.
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  He was like, Nah, homie, you're not going in to the promised
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  land anymore, OK? Because he's holding him
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  accountable for what he did, right?
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  So it's like the more the Lord puts upon us, the more humility
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  we have to have. He said to me a few years ago,
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  the only thing I can clothe in my glory is humility, because
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  without that, you'll be corrupted.
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  I mean, Satan, Yeah, he got corrupted, right?
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  He thought himself so great. And and our greatness is is a
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  gift. We don't get to manhandle it.
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  And and then I love what you said about learning when to
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  speak because this spot right here, Anita girl, I'm still
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  serious. The Lord has been talking to me
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  too about learning to hold his his truth like fire.
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  I think we talked about this the other day on the phone, but for
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  the benefit of those who weren't on the phone with us, which was
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  a great conversation and lives in me still today, was that we
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  have to let it inform us first. So the Lord might give us a
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  prophetic word for this person or for that situation.
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  We can't be reckless and a lot of times when you hold that
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  fire, it does it burns, not in a destructive way, but it, you
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  know, we, we run the risk of becoming hypocrites when what we
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  speak and how we live are two different things.
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  And a lot of times that happens when people aren't, they don't
• 19:44
  take the time, like you said, to be disciplined, to allow the
• 19:47
  Lord to discipline, to, to correct, to guide, to purify
• 19:52
  your life, your thought, your hearts, your intentions, all
• 19:54
  those things. Because we can't just release
• 19:57
  words because he gives them to us.
• 19:59
  Sometimes it's for prayer, sometimes it's for agreement,
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  sometimes it's probably for things I we haven't even
• 20:04
  discovered yet. But he gives us these things and
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  we have to let them women know this.
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  We have to labor with them. We have to carry that seed and,
• 20:15
  and let it grow and inform our person.
• 20:19
  You know when women carry babies, they their DNA of that
• 20:22
  child gets in their body for the rest of their life and lives.
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  In them, right, there's a, there's a real amulsing.
• 20:30
  That's not the word. Emulsification, I think is the
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  word I'm looking for that happens between the mother and
• 20:36
  the child. And that needs to happen with
• 20:38
  the word of God too, especially when we're going to speak for
• 20:43
  him and we're invited into that exchange.
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  So what comes up for you when I say all of that, if anything?
• 20:50
  So many things let me try to put it into the right and and that I
• 20:56
  mean that actually goes so well because everything that you
• 21:01
  said, I like growing up, it was I felt like I was silenced a
• 21:07
  lot, not from my parents, but just from like the world.
• 21:12
  And that's why I think like, that's why now I'm like, well, I
• 21:19
  just it, I understand it now. I understand because someone
• 21:24
  that talks a lot sometimes makes people uncomfortable, especially
• 21:28
  with the things that they're saying, even though they're not
• 21:30
  intentionally calling someone out.
• 21:32
  It's just, it could be uncomfortable.
• 21:36
  And so but the one thing that with me is I, I can, I will
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  never be the one and I've never been the one to say that thus
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  saith the Lord or I know everything.
• 21:49
  I'm so like holy like that. If anything it's the opposite.
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  I'm like God, why did? You like I'm not the one God
• 21:56
  like to somebody else that knows more than because I don't.
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  I'm, I'm just sometimes I'm like even sometimes day-to-day I'm
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  like, I'm barely making it today, like I'm not the one.
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  I don't have all, you know, I just so the fact that he that he
• 22:11
  would trust me with those things, that's where I start to
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  understand why he made me. Yeah, that makes sense.
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  You know, I think he asks a lot of people to minister out of
• 22:27
  their brokenness. And that's that's the humility.
• 22:31
  It's another narrow place though, too, Anita, because it
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  can't slip into self betrayal or self loathing or like God, I'm
• 22:38
  not good enough because he named you good enough.
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  And it's just like inverted pride, right?
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  But like what I hear you saying is you're being really honest
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  with God. Like I don't know why you're
• 22:48
  asking me to do this thing when I was just a mess yesterday or
• 22:54
  whatever. And I think that's the part
• 22:57
  that's almost to me, when I hear you say that, it makes me think
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  about that is the broken and contrite heart that he loves.
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  Like, not because you're broken, but because you're honest.
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  You're honest. And a lot of people aren't,
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  Anita. They're just not.
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  And he can use that, right? Because it's never going to be
• 23:23
  about you. You know that.
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  Yeah, it will. It will never, it will never be
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  anything that it will just be what he works through me and I
• 23:34
  think. The thing that I always think
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  about is just I just want to be in a place where he can trust
• 23:40
  me. I want to be in a place where
• 23:43
  whatever that looks like. And I believe that because the
• 23:48
  beginning of this year started out pretty crazy and wild.
• 23:52
  And I'm like, I don't know if I'm going to make it like, I
• 23:56
  don't know what what you're doing in me Lord.
• 24:01
  And it was really hard, but the one thing that when I asked him
• 24:08
  like, why is this happening, his response to me was really like,
• 24:16
  there was no response. And so finally, like through
• 24:20
  prayer, I just, I, I didn't come in agreement with what was
• 24:25
  happening to me, but I came in the agreement of God.
• 24:30
  You're, if you're writing my story, then you can see the end.
• 24:36
  And if I believe everything that I encourage other people with,
• 24:41
  because I'm a great encourager, I can like, that's something
• 24:45
  that I know I'm good at and that's something that I know the
• 24:47
  Lord put in me. Because when people call or like
• 24:51
  friends call, or if I see somebody that I don't know, I,
• 24:54
  the first thing I want to do is encourage them.
• 24:57
  And so I'm like, if I can be an encouragement to others, then I
• 25:01
  need to use that for myself and that should reflect in me.
• 25:06
  And so I just, I just started to to say, Lord, if I believe
• 25:09
  everything that I'm telling other people, then that means
• 25:13
  that I believe that whatever the end result is, because even
• 25:19
  though I can't see the middle, like I believe the end result,
• 25:22
  you will there would be, it would be for your glory.
• 25:25
  So that means that everything in between might, it might hurt, it
• 25:30
  might be hard, I don't know, Like, because a lot of times
• 25:34
  when he shows me things, he shows me the end.
• 25:38
  And I believe that for the end, because the end is going to be
• 25:42
  good. It's going to be good because I
• 25:44
  have faith for that because I believe that because it's
• 25:48
  happened every other time in my life, the outcome is always
• 25:52
  great because it's for his glory.
• 25:54
  And so my prayer was God. I don't understand this middle
• 25:57
  part. I just and you know what?
• 26:00
  I don't want to skip to the end, even though my flesh is like
• 26:03
  just skip to the end, but skip to the good part, right?
• 26:06
  But but I really feel like my spirit was crying out saying
• 26:11
  help me walk through the pain, help me walk through that middle
• 26:16
  part that that because that's where the work is.
• 26:21
  And so when I, when I prayed that I really felt like it was
• 26:26
  so simple. When he spoke to me as a father,
• 26:29
  he said, I'm looking for your response.
• 26:33
  So he's looking for my response through that middle section.
• 26:37
  Like, how are you going to worship me?
• 26:41
  Are you still going to dance for me?
• 26:42
  Are you still going to sing for me?
• 26:44
  Or do you still love me? Do you still want me as a
• 26:48
  father? And that kind of response, it
• 26:52
  kind of shocked me because I hadn't heard heard him say that.
• 26:54
  But then I real just kind of think about when there's a song
• 27:00
  that says all is for your glory. And that's kind of what the
• 27:06
  story is. Our stories are right.
• 27:08
  They're the stories that that Jesus carries with him, the
• 27:12
  stories of the Lamb, the stories that write that book that is
• 27:19
  being written about us, about what we walk through.
• 27:22
  And and all he really wants is our response.
• 27:26
  That's right. You're right.
• 27:27
  And I thank you for being so honest and candid and vulnerable
• 27:33
  in sharing that because it is a season of trying.
• 27:39
  You know, a lot of times I've heard people pray that they want
• 27:44
  Jesus to show up more and more and like manifest himself
• 27:48
  through US. And that's honorable and lovely.
• 27:52
  And I just want to remind people that he is so in love with you.
• 27:56
  Like, he's so in love with you when we sing songs like to him,
• 28:02
  like, I just want to be near you.
• 28:04
  I just want to worship you. He just wants to be near you,
• 28:11
  Anita. And the listener, He just wants
• 28:13
  to behold you. He wants to hear what you think
• 28:16
  and hear how you feel. He wants that.
• 28:20
  And I think sometimes when he asks us to contemplate what's in
• 28:25
  our heart, like he didn't give you the answer in that season.
• 28:28
  He was like, Yep, this is where it's going to end.
• 28:30
  But like we're journeying this mess together and He didn't say
• 28:34
  much else. It's so painful.
• 28:35
  It can be so painful. We have to trust that what the
• 28:38
  Lord knows is enough. And we can stake our life on
• 28:41
  what He knows. And sometimes we don't know when
• 28:43
  we're in the midst of it. And we have to be OK with that
• 28:46
  because it isn't what we know that changes things.
• 28:48
  It's what He knows. And what He's showing us in that
• 28:52
  season is even when it's hard and dark and our hearts still
• 28:57
  long for Him. And how beautiful that is
• 29:01
  because man, it's not about singing perfectly or dancing
• 29:04
  perfectly or showing up perfectly.
• 29:06
  When he beholds our love, to him, it's perfect.
• 29:10
  We're the ones that don't judge ourselves, right?
• 29:12
  He judges us perfectly, perfectly.
• 29:16
  And we had a guest a few weeks ago, Jeff Weitzel, who was
• 29:19
  saying that he was singing a song with his family and they
• 29:22
  weren't really driving and was kind of rare, you know?
• 29:25
  But then all of a sudden he got hit with how the Lord was
• 29:27
  receiving their song and, and the love and just the adoration
• 29:34
  that just how much the Lord adored him and them in that
• 29:38
  moment just spoke volumes Because this is not a
• 29:41
  performance. I will die on that hill.
• 29:43
  This is Christian walk. It is not a performance.
• 29:46
  And we go through hard valleys and we go through hard times,
• 29:50
  not always to prove our faith to, to prove ourselves something
• 29:53
  to Jesus. He already knows.
• 29:54
  But how beautiful and how precious it is that even in the
• 29:58
  dark seasons when he knows he's not answering your questions, we
• 30:02
  still want to worship him. Not all of his children are like
• 30:06
  that. A lot of them aren't right.
• 30:09
  Not a lot. I'd like that and how beautiful
• 30:13
  that is. And so when you go through those
• 30:15
  hard seasons, I'm sure there's plenty of listeners who are
• 30:17
  right now going through those hard seasons of I would just
• 30:23
  love to invite people going through that to just lay down
• 30:27
  the performance aspect of it. He literally writes the story.
• 30:31
  He literally writes the faith in your heart for the next day.
• 30:35
  If he's asking you to fast, if he's asking you to pray, if he's
• 30:38
  asking you to meditate on the word, great.
• 30:40
  Do that, right? But don't do it because you're
• 30:43
  trying to prove yourself to him. He already knows.
• 30:46
  He already knows. Yeah.
• 30:48
  So how much of that journey have you found fruitful?
• 30:53
  I'm not. I'm kind of assuming that some
• 30:55
  of it has resolved when I asked that question.
• 30:57
  But like, yeah. So tell me a bit about the fruit
• 31:01
  you got from that dark season. It really was the, the message
• 31:06
  that screamed out to me the most was the reason why I was in that
• 31:10
  situation was because I, I don't everything.
• 31:14
  I'm always trying to multitask a million things at one time.
• 31:18
  And I think as moms, that's kind of like what we do now.
• 31:21
  Like sometimes we don't have a choice.
• 31:24
  And what what my husband actually told was always telling
• 31:28
  me is you just need to slow down.
• 31:30
  He's like just slow down just because how many things go
• 31:35
  unnoticed and missed because we don't slow down.
• 31:38
  And it's kind of like it was the lesson in it was was that was
• 31:45
  just that. And it's sometimes you can be
• 31:50
  told and and corrected, but it doesn't really manifest in you
• 31:55
  until you're actually standing face to face with it.
• 31:58
  And then you have no choice but but to allow those words and
• 32:03
  that correction to come into your spirit.
• 32:07
  And so I really do feel like it's part of the refining that
• 32:12
  it's being used to refine me and to really just like sharpen my
• 32:20
  character to where I know there's this season that's
• 32:24
  coming, that the things that God is show me that would come to
• 32:29
  pass years ago are going to start happening and they're
• 32:32
  going to start happening fast. And so I know that this is all
• 32:37
  preparation for that. And he's he will use those
• 32:40
  things that the world throws at us because it's not always him.
• 32:47
  Sometimes we go to things because we live in this in this
• 32:51
  world and we're affected by things of this world.
• 32:53
  And so because he is a kind father, what he does is he uses
• 32:58
  that to help to guide us. He guides us through it, but he
• 33:02
  uses it to refine our character and to kind of point to things
• 33:05
  that are unhealed in US, things that he needs to to show us
• 33:11
  first within ourselves. Because I can help the whole
• 33:15
  world. But if?
• 33:16
  I'm not addressing the things that.
• 33:21
  That are, you know, a thorn in me or like sticking out in me.
• 33:24
  How, how can I, how can I help how, how can I continue to help
• 33:30
  people without addressing some of those same issues with my in
• 33:34
  myself. And, and I don't call people out
• 33:37
  on their things. I just help them walk through it
• 33:40
  and help them see it and I encourage them.
• 33:43
  Like there's only been very few times where I've had to say
• 33:47
  things and, and like I told you previously about calling, you
• 33:51
  know, being bold and saying it, but it was never, it's always
• 33:56
  that's, that's something that I always plead with the Lord to
• 33:59
  help me so that when he does use me in that boldness, that it's
• 34:04
  never to hurt. People, but it's to encourage
• 34:08
  and that's only happened once or twice so but I'm not I'm not
• 34:13
  somebody that does that very often and I usually.
• 34:16
  If it happens, it's in a in a setting, a smaller setting.
• 34:19
  But the in that coming to this season, what the Lord showed,
• 34:26
  what he showed me myself was he says, like, take off your war
• 34:30
  paint. And I'm like.
• 34:33
  War paint like what, what is it? But you know, like in, in
• 34:37
  different cultures, when they go to war, they, they'll paint
• 34:39
  here, they'll just, or the whole face and it's all symbolic of,
• 34:43
  of strength. And there's just, you know,
• 34:46
  there isn't anything wrong with having the battle paint on, but
• 34:49
  it was just like, this is the season where you're going to be
• 34:51
  quiet. And I'm like, but it wasn't like
• 34:54
  he was correcting me. He wasn't saying, Oh, no, you're
• 34:57
  too loud. You need to be quiet.
• 34:58
  Like it wasn't like that. It was it was this season is the
• 35:02
  season where he's going to do it.
• 35:06
  And I don't have he'll show me things, but I don't have to.
• 35:09
  It's not the time to call it out.
• 35:11
  It's the time to be quiet because when God, I've seen it
• 35:17
  many times when he's ready to do big things, he's going to not
• 35:21
  that we ever take the glory by calling these out because
• 35:24
  sometimes he'll, he'll say he'll give us the, the grace to walk
• 35:29
  through that. But there are times where it's
• 35:32
  going to be such such a big thing that he's got to do it.
• 35:37
  He has to be the one to do it. And when he does it, not only
• 35:41
  does he get the full glory in that, but the person that or the
• 35:46
  situations that he's working that in, nobody, nobody can can
• 35:51
  blame somebody and says, well, this person did this.
• 35:55
  And so therefore I'm not going to listen because they're
• 35:58
  nobody, but they have to listen when God is looking at you face
• 36:03
  to face, when you come face to face in one of those moments
• 36:06
  with the Lord, you can't escape it.
• 36:08
  It's you and him and and because he loves us, he's going to he's
• 36:13
  going to show that to you. And then it's to your
• 36:16
  responsibility to say I I'm going to accept that and change
• 36:21
  and I'm going to stop, I'm going to turn away.
• 36:23
  And and that's the one thing that I've learned that change
• 36:27
  doesn't always come when you call or tell people or even try,
• 36:32
  you know, even let's say a leader wants to correct someone,
• 36:36
  it doesn't always happen there because they're not ready to
• 36:39
  change or they're not, they don't understand or God hasn't
• 36:43
  revealed it to them. So the times where I've seen
• 36:46
  change in people is when they are face to face with the Lord
• 36:49
  because he knows how to do it and only he can do it.
• 36:53
  And so a lot of times when they say pray for the people that
• 37:00
  have hurt you, it's because you, you need to detach and you need
• 37:04
  to let go for your health. Because I mean, when you hold on
• 37:08
  forgiveness, it completely tears you apart in your spirit, in
• 37:13
  your carnal flesh. I mean, everything in, in your
• 37:16
  emotions. And so for your health, you have
• 37:18
  to let it go and you have to truly forgive someone.
• 37:22
  And then when you let it go, that's when the Lord can do the
• 37:25
  work in you and the healing in you, but also he, he can only,
• 37:31
  he can deal with that person. And if, especially if that
• 37:34
  person has a relationship or even if they don't, like God can
• 37:37
  come in and say and show you and then he leaves it in your, the
• 37:41
  ball in your court, like, OK, are you going to address this
• 37:43
  finally? Or are we going to have to go
• 37:45
  around this mountain a few more years?
• 37:48
  Yeah. And so I say that not not to
• 37:52
  like point fingers at anyone, but because I say that for
• 37:55
  myself as well, because I don't know how many.
• 37:58
  Like I'm sure that I've heard people unintentionally or I've
• 38:03
  said things as a leader that has affected somebody in a way that
• 38:06
  wasn't always positive. And I would want them #1 to come
• 38:10
  and tell me. I would want them to come and
• 38:12
  share, like you said this. And this is how I took it.
• 38:15
  And I. And if there was, even if it was
• 38:18
  unintentional, I would, I would want to know so that I could
• 38:21
  correct that within myself or I could explain this is what I
• 38:25
  meant by it. And so I always look at it where
• 38:29
  I'm going to, I'm going to make sure that I don't become the
• 38:32
  leader that is abusive or I'm not.
• 38:35
  If I'm ever given a place of leadership or authority, then
• 38:40
  I'm not going to abuse that. And so.
• 38:43
  Going been being in in ministry and being raised in the church,
• 38:47
  I've seen so much hurt and I always say, God, if you ever
• 38:51
  give me a platform like that, if, if it ever comes to the
• 38:54
  point where please help me understand people, walk with
• 38:58
  people and understand what you're doing in them so that I
• 39:03
  don't sit on this other side and abuse the power or the position.
• 39:09
  And that's why sometimes. I'm like, you know what?
• 39:11
  I I'm OK. Just doing my 9:00 to 5:00 with
• 39:16
  my family. Like I don't desire, I don't
• 39:19
  desire leadership because it's a heavy weighty thing.
• 39:23
  And it's it's almost. It's like the.
• 39:26
  Fear of I don't want to mess up, I don't want to hurt people
• 39:29
  because I know what that's like and I just want to be a light
• 39:33
  and and be obedient to what the Lord is asking of me.
• 39:38
  Yeah, Yeah, I really liked what you were saying about when the
• 39:43
  Lord asks you to address something, he, he often asks you
• 39:48
  more often than not to walk through that something with the
• 39:53
  person because the Bible says it's his goodness that leads to
• 39:58
  repentance, right? And so if we're doing things the
• 40:01
  way that he does them, that's more or less going to be the MO
• 40:06
  that he chooses. And again, I agree with you that
• 40:10
  there are times when you. It's all over the Old Testament.
• 40:14
  Jesus did it a lot. He's like you brood of Vipers,
• 40:16
  like, you know, there's those times when you say harsh but
• 40:20
  things, but then at the same time that he was calling out the
• 40:24
  the Pharisees when his disciples wanted to called on fire from
• 40:28
  heaven. He's like, you don't know what
• 40:30
  spirit you're of right. So that again, is a very narrow
• 40:35
  place where how do we navigate that?
• 40:37
  And I'd love to hear your thoughts about what it
• 40:41
  practically is like, you know, in your heart and just
• 40:45
  application as well. When you walk through something
• 40:48
  with somebody, let's say you have a worship leader who tends
• 40:55
  towards manipulation or something, or there there's
• 40:59
  something off and you're discerning what it is.
• 41:02
  And you, you believe that the Lord is calling them to this
• 41:05
  place, but you also see this other thing and, and frankly, we
• 41:08
  all have it, like you admitted, like look, I'm, I'm not showing
• 41:12
  up to anything perfect. And we see that in other people
• 41:16
  too. And, and our responsibility is
• 41:18
  not to dismiss them at times. Boundaries have to change, but
• 41:21
  it doesn't make make it that they have no value at that
• 41:24
  point. So when He asks you to walk
• 41:26
  alongside people that are struggling with things that they
• 41:29
  themselves are unaware of, what takes place in your heart and
• 41:32
  your mind? What is your conversation with
• 41:34
  the Lord sound like, and what's the practical application there?
• 41:38
  Well, this is really good. I'm actually, I'm glad that you
• 41:41
  asked that because I've had an experience.
• 41:45
  There's been multiple, but there was this one experience that I
• 41:48
  have where I actually in the middle of a worship set.
• 41:54
  I felt the Lord speak to me and actually show me what was
• 42:00
  happening with someone else that was on the same platform.
• 42:06
  And he basically said, what are you going to do?
• 42:12
  I'm like, or he was he, it was in the middle of a set and he's
• 42:16
  like, what are you going to do? How are you going to respond?
• 42:20
  And I'm just like, oh man. And so because it's, I mean, if
• 42:26
  anyone's ever been in a position where you're, so when you're in
• 42:28
  a worship team, you're working with so many people, you're
• 42:32
  listening, you have an active music director in your ears.
• 42:37
  Like there's just so much going on.
• 42:38
  And it's like while I was singing, the Lord asked me how I
• 42:42
  was going to respond. And when he did, I just, I just
• 42:46
  broke. And I in turn prayed on the
• 42:51
  microphone and I just, I just said, I don't remember exactly
• 42:55
  what I said, but my heart was like always, always.
• 42:59
  Especially, I don't know, I get so jumbled sometimes because I
• 43:03
  have all these things coming to my mind at once and I have to
• 43:06
  like separate the words and put the right words.
• 43:08
  So please forgive me for. For stopping the middle, it's
• 43:12
  OK, you're doing great, but it's.
• 43:15
  Just like all of all of these things are happening
• 43:18
  simultaneously. I'm, I'm in the middle of
• 43:20
  singing a song and praying to the Lord, responding in my
• 43:24
  spirit to what he just asked me because it just came out of
• 43:28
  nowhere. Like, what are you going to do?
• 43:29
  Like, and he knew exactly what I was going to do.
• 43:33
  And he, he knows my heart and he knows exactly what I was
• 43:36
  thinking. And so, but at the same time, he
• 43:39
  was asking me what I was going to do and he was showing me
• 43:42
  this, this other person. And, and so it was like just my
• 43:46
  heart melted for that. And, and as I continued to, to
• 43:50
  worship, I was just like, you know what, Lord, regardless of
• 43:54
  what's happening on stage, regardless of what's going on,
• 43:59
  it doesn't matter because you still deserve the, the praise,
• 44:03
  the worship. And I'm not, I can't ever be in
• 44:08
  control of what anyone else is doing.
• 44:10
  I'm, I'm in charge of my actions, my response.
• 44:13
  And so in that moment in the carnal, I just went along with
• 44:18
  what I was hearing the Lord, because a lot of times when
• 44:20
  you're working on a team, you'll hear something that the Lord
• 44:24
  like, I'll hear what he wants me to do.
• 44:26
  I see it clearly and I know how to execute it.
• 44:29
  But at the same time, I'm not working alone.
• 44:33
  Like even though I have the answer and I and he will even
• 44:37
  show me what's happening in the spirit.
• 44:40
  I could. And a lot of times when I'm in
• 44:42
  this situation, it's it's like he'll, he'll give me clear
• 44:47
  instruction what to do in the spirit.
• 44:50
  But then I, I also have to be careful because I'm like, I'm
• 44:53
  not, this is not a one woman show.
• 44:55
  Like I'm not here on my own. I'm also not in charge here.
• 44:59
  So I don't have the spiritual authority to maybe do what I
• 45:02
  know needs to be done. So, so it's not minimizing it.
• 45:07
  It's me understanding how the system is and how it's working.
• 45:11
  And so I'm like, what can I do in this moment?
• 45:14
  And in that moment, what I did is I continued to give my
• 45:18
  worship and I prayed and I prayed in the spirit.
• 45:21
  And then as as it came time to to when I was leading the second
• 45:29
  part and when I was leading the song, then it was then at that
• 45:32
  point I had the authority to go ahead and do what the Lord asked
• 45:36
  me to. And so I did that and I was, I
• 45:41
  had to get past the fear. Over the years, I've gotten past
• 45:44
  the fear of if the, if it is strong and the and I know it's
• 45:48
  the Lord, then I'm going to go ahead and do it regardless of if
• 45:51
  I get in trouble or if I get talked to.
• 45:55
  But what I've noticed is I always act, I, I always have the
• 46:00
  credibility of people know where my heart is because I've shown
• 46:03
  them that. And over the years they see
• 46:05
  that. So it's like, well, if Anita
• 46:07
  maybe goes into a different part in this bridge, then we're going
• 46:11
  to trust that that's the Lord leading her.
• 46:14
  But I also have to like fill the atmosphere.
• 46:16
  And so many times I feel like a lot of things.
• 46:20
  And so it's just like getting to the place of discipline where I
• 46:23
  know instead of analyzing every single thing, I don't have time.
• 46:29
  I just have to wet lean with the spirit because if I wait too
• 46:34
  long, then it it'll pass. Like I don't ever want an
• 46:38
  opportunity to pass. Like I've learned that.
• 46:40
  And so I have to just lead with the direction of the Lord, but
• 46:43
  also take into consideration, and I'll do all of this in a
• 46:47
  matter of seconds and minutes. And I guess my point would be,
• 46:53
  especially if you're a filler and you feel things and you see
• 46:56
  things, it's really all about allowing the Lord to discipline,
• 47:01
  disciplining yourself, allowing him to refine you so that you
• 47:04
  can say, OK, in this set, in this setting, in this
• 47:08
  atmosphere, this is the authority that I have here.
• 47:11
  So I'm going to work within that.
• 47:13
  And just because I'm not given full authority doesn't mean God
• 47:17
  can't move. I'm just going to do my part.
• 47:19
  And if somebody else isn't doing their part, that's not on me.
• 47:22
  And So what happens is I'm building an altar to the Lord on
• 47:27
  the discipline that he's given me, the heart that he's given
• 47:30
  me, not just for him, but for the people, even though I'm not.
• 47:36
  I don't, I don't sing worship to please anybody but the Lord.
• 47:39
  I don't sing worship to please anyone else.
• 47:43
  But I'm going to respect people and I'm going to respect the
• 47:46
  position that they have the authority that they have.
• 47:50
  And if there's ever a time where the Lord really pushes me to go
• 47:54
  somewhere that maybe isn't wasn't planned, I'm going to
• 47:57
  trust that he's going to cover me later or that that he's going
• 48:02
  to show them my heart later. Because there is, even though I
• 48:07
  consider myself really free in the Lord And, and sometimes
• 48:11
  people may look at that as weird or I've just know now, like
• 48:17
  where, where the limits are and just trusting God that if I'm
• 48:24
  going to do this wild thing that you're telling me to do, yeah,
• 48:27
  I'm probably going to offend the spirit of religion.
• 48:29
  Yeah, people are probably going to not everyone's going to
• 48:32
  understand it. But if I know that I know that I
• 48:34
  know that it's the Lord, then it's going to be for somebody in
• 48:38
  that room that, and he's going to do it, not me, but just
• 48:43
  through my obedience, he's going to do it.
• 48:45
  And so it, it is like we are called to honor leadership, But
• 48:51
  there are times where the Lord will say, you're going to do
• 48:54
  this, but but it's OK because I'm going to talk to basically,
• 48:58
  you can do this now. They might be upset, but I'm
• 49:00
  going to talk to them later. Or it's for a greater purpose
• 49:03
  and you're still honoring. And it's not it's, I don't know
• 49:07
  how to explain it. It's not like you can't look at
• 49:10
  it like, oh, I'm be put in a box.
• 49:12
  No, because the Lord will tell you what when you're fully
• 49:16
  leaning on him and you're fully giving him the glory, he's going
• 49:18
  to tell you where to go, when to go.
• 49:21
  And yeah, you might ruffle some feathers.
• 49:23
  But when you know that that you've done everything that the
• 49:28
  Lord has called you, you're going to sit in that and you're
• 49:31
  going to have confidence because he'll give you the confidence.
• 49:34
  And the confidence is actually, I feel the confirmation that
• 49:39
  you've done it and the Lord. But I will tell you there have
• 49:42
  been times where I just went for it and it wasn't necessarily the
• 49:47
  Lord, but he wasn't like upset. It was kind of like, it's up to
• 49:51
  you, Anita, Like I'm going to leave it up to you.
• 49:53
  And that's actually scary because if he, when he says,
• 49:57
  when there's no clear answer, it's kind of like, you can do
• 50:01
  that. I'll bless it, but it's not
• 50:03
  necessarily directly like from him and I.
• 50:05
  And so, so that's the scary part.
• 50:08
  But if as long as your heart is right, as long as you're as
• 50:14
  you're knitted and you're in there in the vine, you don't
• 50:17
  have to be worried. And that's the confidence that
• 50:20
  we have knowing that we're attached to him.
• 50:22
  And there was this one time where I'll share a testimony
• 50:26
  recently where, what was it? Too recent, but it was where I
• 50:32
  was. I was in the middle.
• 50:34
  It was actually the set. I was just explaining afterwards
• 50:37
  I was like man that was really hard.
• 50:39
  Maybe I should just not do this anymore like in this setting and
• 50:42
  just stick with my comfort zone, which is just mentoring the
• 50:46
  youth. And one of one of the youth
• 50:49
  leaders that I know, she's the youth director.
• 50:51
  She after that night, she actually came running and she
• 50:55
  found me and she's like, I just want to say that when you said
• 51:00
  that prayer on the microphone, I felt every word and I heard, I
• 51:04
  heard that And she said she's like that the Lord showed her a
• 51:10
  vision of me saying that there was a few other things, but this
• 51:15
  is the part that I will share that she says that the Lord the
• 51:21
  Father said, Anita sings straight to my heart and and
• 51:27
  there's and you know, not everybody does that.
• 51:32
  And so like when she said that, that was like such a big
• 51:35
  encouragement because that's all I want.
• 51:37
  Like I don't care what other people think about my voice.
• 51:40
  I mean, I do care. I do care and love the people
• 51:43
  because I want the Lord always to use what I have for him so
• 51:47
  that he can use it. But it's like the focus I used
• 51:52
  to growing up in worship culture and just in the church you get
• 51:56
  caught up in, Oh, I got a minister to to the people.
• 51:59
  I've got a minister to the people.
• 52:01
  I have to do all the songs that they like, or I have to do all
• 52:04
  the songs that's in mainstream worship.
• 52:06
  And I have to make sure it looks pretty and that it looks put
• 52:10
  together and it's not messy because this is on live, you
• 52:13
  know, and, and so all of that growing up with all that.
• 52:16
  But then the Lord, like if he asked me to, if I feel just like
• 52:22
  I need to fall to my knees on this or I need to just like put
• 52:24
  the mic down and not even sing and just let the music minister.
• 52:27
  And so doing that, that's where I really find that I connect
• 52:32
  with the Lord and, and through the messy, like, because I'm a
• 52:35
  crier, I'll cry, I'll, I can just have a regular
• 52:37
  conversation. All of a sudden I just start
• 52:39
  crying because I just feel a flood of emotions.
• 52:42
  And that's kind of the way that, you know, I, I'm not a cookie
• 52:46
  cutter. I grew up in training to be like
• 52:49
  a cookie cutter worship leader. But as time went on, I just felt
• 52:54
  like why the the times that people have said anything or
• 52:59
  that the Lord has has spoke to them were the times that I was
• 53:02
  messy or it was it looked messy on the outside, but it was just
• 53:06
  pureness straight to the Lord. And so to get to have someone
• 53:11
  say that, to have someone say that this is what the Lord
• 53:13
  showed me about you like that is all like I could, I could never
• 53:17
  sing again. Just know.
• 53:19
  And if I, you know, if I never lead worship again, if I never
• 53:22
  sing again, just just knowing that he that my worship hits his
• 53:27
  heart, that's all that matters. Like, I don't even care if I
• 53:32
  don't sing again. It's fine because the fact that
• 53:35
  that it hits to his heart, that's all I want.
• 53:37
  Isn't that what we want? Even what we want?
• 53:40
  Yeah. It is.
• 53:42
  That's exactly what we want, because we minister to an
• 53:45
  audience of one, don't we? And so many things came to mind
• 53:50
  as you were talking. It's so funny because when you
• 53:54
  talk about, it's in those broken moments that the Lord affected
• 53:59
  other people's lives. It, it's a, it's a, it's again,
• 54:05
  it's another honest moment. It's again, it's another holy
• 54:08
  place. And sometimes when people talk
• 54:12
  like you're talking now the Lord starts talking to me about
• 54:19
  things that it's almost like, because this is what it looks
• 54:24
  like in the spirit to me, because the person's heart who's
• 54:27
  talking longs so much for him, He precedes them.
• 54:32
  And because he precedes their words like a whole door opens
• 54:36
  and more than just what that person is saying comes through.
• 54:39
  But like revelations to questions I asked last week are
• 54:43
  coming true. And like prayers I prayed 10
• 54:45
  years ago that I didn't really understand the implications of
• 54:48
  thou I'm seeing the fruit of. But all Anita is talking about
• 54:52
  is this testimony of the time she had to work through a hard
• 54:56
  worship set. But it's because of what you
• 54:58
  carry, right? And it's in those moments of
• 55:01
  brokenness and those honest moments that what you carry,
• 55:04
  like the earthen vessel breaks at his feet and the fragrance
• 55:08
  that comes out, it's changes people's lives.
• 55:15
  And that whole thing you said about worship culture, I've
• 55:18
  never actually heard that term before, but it's a great word
• 55:21
  picture and we see it so much. It's the smoke screen.
• 55:25
  It's the smoke. I'm sorry.
• 55:26
  I always I always pray in the morning to put a smoke screens
• 55:28
  in the spirit, but that's not what I'm talking about.
• 55:31
  Shout out to Dan Duvall was is that is that, you know, we do
• 55:36
  the smoke machines and the lights and all the things and
• 55:39
  the tear jeans right at the right spot because too high is
• 55:41
  not good. And like, you know, there's all
• 55:43
  these things and, and I've, I wasn't long in a worship, like a
• 55:47
  really, like you're describing a church worship where you're
• 55:51
  listening to the in the ear and you listen to the music and the
• 55:54
  the whole thing is a lot. I did it for a while and I was
• 55:57
  like, I don't know that I can live in this space, but but I
• 56:02
  liked what you were saying about the wisdom of the Lord.
• 56:06
  It brings peace. So you're navigating a situation
• 56:10
  with him with your heart open before him and allowing him to
• 56:15
  point out to you what he wants to address in the spirit.
• 56:20
  He's looking at your heart and you're looking at his heart and
• 56:23
  looking at your heart. You're contemplating the order
• 56:28
  dynamic, the the hierarchy of what's happening.
• 56:30
  You're understanding where your jurisdiction lies.
• 56:34
  You're understanding that grace has to go, has to flourish more
• 56:39
  than showing up in perfection. And like what a powerful thing.
• 56:43
  Because when you describe it like that, Anita, I'm not
• 56:45
  hearing somebody who's striving to do it right.
• 56:49
  I'm hearing somebody who's allowing the Lord to pour
• 56:52
  through her and it's bringing understanding, right?
• 56:59
  Because he's, he knows all the things.
• 57:01
  He knows all of the things. And our job is to just like
• 57:05
  receive. And that's what I hear you
• 57:07
  describing. And and the other thing I felt
• 57:10
  when you were talking and and you described the person who was
• 57:14
  in that particular particularly difficult worships that came to
• 57:18
  you later and said, I felt every word that you prayed what the
• 57:22
  Lord said to me when you said that is a lot of times when he
• 57:24
  talks to us in those kinds of moments, there's already
• 57:30
  agreement somewhere else in the room, like somebody else is
• 57:33
  feeling that. But just like Elijah was like,
• 57:36
  I'm the only prophet left. He's like, no, homie, we got
• 57:40
  like 7000 more. We think we're the only one
• 57:44
  experiencing it, but that's not that's not always true.
• 57:46
  Now do we want to just bust out and be like, blah, this thing is
• 57:49
  happening? No, right, because there's his
• 57:51
  wisdom. The holy wisdom brings peace.
• 57:54
  It brings unity. It brings a cohesiveness in
• 57:57
  order to the spirit. Even if there is a fence, that's
• 58:00
  not our part. Hey, I said what I said.
• 58:03
  And so there's there's just such a beautiful balancing act here
• 58:07
  that you're describing. I regret that word act.
• 58:11
  There's a beautiful balanced manifestation of his wisdom in a
• 58:16
  difficult place. And the other thing that I was
• 58:22
  hearing when you were talking was sometimes when things are
• 58:27
  difficult, we judge ourselves harshly.
• 58:31
  We're like, OK, if I was really good at this Christian thing or
• 58:34
  walking this thing out with you, Lord, it wouldn't be difficult.
• 58:37
  I wouldn't feel the tension. And I just heard the Lord say
• 58:42
  like, that's not true. You're going to feel the
• 58:46
  tension. That doesn't mean you're failing
• 58:48
  in any way. That is what you described from
• 58:50
  the outset of this particular block of talking was it's it's
• 58:56
  hard. This was it's hard.
• 59:00
  And that's OK, right? Like it doesn't mean we're
• 59:03
  failing. That doesn't mean we're not our
• 59:05
  heart isn't right before the Lord and and frankly, we judge
• 59:08
  ourselves wrong like 90% of the time.
• 59:11
  I'm like, Lord deliver me from judging myself because I'm sure
• 59:16
  I'm terrible at it because I'm hard on myself.
• 59:21
  I don't want to be wrong and so much more than not wanting to be
• 59:24
  wrong. I don't self deception so real.
• 59:31
  But the truth is Anita, I, I don't, I honestly don't think
• 59:33
  that people who are truly self deceived ever think that they
• 59:36
  might be self deceived. So there's a good sign.
• 59:41
  Yeah. That's true.
• 59:43
  You're even thinking about it. But all of these things like the
• 59:47
  Lord brings judgment, which is righteous and wonderful in
• 59:50
  situations when you're walking into places in obedience where
• 59:54
  your heart is open and he's pouring through.
• 59:56
  And even if you feel that tension, that doesn't mean
• 59:58
  you're failing. And even when you speak and
• 1:00:00
  people feel a little miffed, that doesn't mean you spoke
• 1:00:03
  wrong. Like it's all his work.
• 1:00:07
  And I think that that's such a beautiful example of.
• 1:00:13
  Walking in those narrow places with grace.
• 1:00:17
  How has it felt to you in other times when you are discerning A
• 1:00:25
  undercurrent that other people weren't?
• 1:00:28
  So like the example I want to give is, let's say there's an
• 1:00:31
  undercurrent of, of sin that's being permitted in institution
• 1:00:37
  to church or a group or whatever, and you see it and
• 1:00:42
  everybody else wants to put it under the rug.
• 1:00:45
  Put it under the rug. We don't talk about that.
• 1:00:48
  And how do you, how do you navigate that?
• 1:00:51
  Has the Lord ever taken you through something like that?
• 1:00:56
  The one time, well, I'm trying to think how stuff like that has
• 1:01:04
  happened where I do see dreams that are revealing.
• 1:01:09
  But anytime what I've learned is kind of like even though that
• 1:01:20
  dream is for somebody else or something about someone or
• 1:01:23
  always the first thing is go to prayer with it.
• 1:01:27
  But it can be very embarrassing when God shows somebody else
• 1:01:34
  something about you. But that's what I'm saying he
• 1:01:38
  when he does that, he trusts the people that he shows.
• 1:01:43
  And so if I know that the Lord trusts me with that, I'm going
• 1:01:50
  to kind of like turn it on myself and say, if this was me,
• 1:01:53
  if the Lord was showing somebody something like that about me,
• 1:01:57
  first of all, I would be embarrassed.
• 1:02:00
  But what I would want is I would want that to be received with
• 1:02:05
  tenderness, with kindness. And so I've been, I guess I've
• 1:02:13
  been a little bit directly, but not completely directly involved
• 1:02:17
  in something like that. And so I guess I get upset when
• 1:02:23
  it's continuously happening and there's no accountability
• 1:02:28
  because the only way that because accountability is good,
• 1:02:34
  because accountability protects you from yourself and it also
• 1:02:37
  protects other people from you bleeding all over them,
• 1:02:41
  especially if you're in a if, if there's, if somebody is in
• 1:02:46
  position of power, you know, within the church and there is
• 1:02:51
  no accountability and they're hurting because we all go
• 1:02:54
  through things and we hurt. And what happens is it they're
• 1:02:57
  bleeding over all the people that are under them.
• 1:03:00
  And, and it's, and everybody is affected.
• 1:03:03
  And sometimes people are affected so bad that yes, they
• 1:03:07
  forgive, but they end up leaving because they're like, I can't be
• 1:03:12
  under this kind of abuse. I've, I've forgiven, I've
• 1:03:15
  forgiven this leader. I've forgiven, you know, we've,
• 1:03:19
  we've worked through it, but there's still no accountability.
• 1:03:23
  And so if if I was direct, like if there was a time, what I
• 1:03:29
  would do is I would go to the person, even though let's say
• 1:03:34
  that it's repeated happening, happening over and over.
• 1:03:37
  Then I mean, what is the Bible tells us that we need to go and
• 1:03:41
  talk to the person and you know, say this is what's going on.
• 1:03:44
  And a lot of times people don't even get to that first step
• 1:03:48
  because there's so much fear involved, fear of backlash, fear
• 1:03:52
  of being excommunicated. Because if you're in a place, if
• 1:03:57
  you're in a ministry where there's already really not a lot
• 1:04:01
  of accountability or it's kind of like you said, swept under
• 1:04:03
  the rug, then it has the potential of becoming a big
• 1:04:07
  monster. Just kind of like a almost like
• 1:04:11
  a snowball effect because there's so many, so much time
• 1:04:14
  that goes by of no accountability for it and it
• 1:04:17
  being swept under the rug. So it just gets bigger and
• 1:04:19
  bigger and bigger because then this person thinks, well, I'm
• 1:04:23
  it's OK, because they're just going to sweep it under the rug
• 1:04:26
  or that person will leave and it doesn't matter.
• 1:04:28
  And they might not be thinking about it that way directly, but
• 1:04:31
  in the subconscious, that's what your flesh is doing because you
• 1:04:36
  haven't stopped it or said no to it.
• 1:04:39
  Or maybe there's been, maybe there was a plan put in place
• 1:04:43
  for, you know, for someone in that position, but the plan
• 1:04:47
  didn't get followed through. So, so it does unintentionally
• 1:04:50
  maybe get swiped under the rug or saying, wait, we can't let
• 1:04:56
  that get out because the reputation, our reputation is
• 1:04:59
  already damaged. If that gets out, let's just
• 1:05:02
  which it's fine, like it's, it's OK.
• 1:05:05
  Not the whole world needs to know like I do believe that
• 1:05:09
  there should be there's there's some what do you call just
• 1:05:14
  what's the word discretion as to OK, yeah, we're going to keep
• 1:05:18
  this here, but we're going to deal with it though.
• 1:05:20
  We're not going to let it go under the rug.
• 1:05:21
  We're going to deal with it. We'll keep it in house because
• 1:05:23
  we're people, we're flawed, right.
• 1:05:25
  And but the only way that we can be in a place of especially if
• 1:05:29
  you you have a lot of influence in the church, a lot of control
• 1:05:32
  over things. I think it's important to like
• 1:05:36
  kind of like where they say you got to go get a check up with
• 1:05:40
  the doctor once a year or go get your teeth cleaned.
• 1:05:43
  But every six months or so, it's kind of like there has to be a
• 1:05:47
  place where leadership says we're going to we're going to
• 1:05:51
  work or we're going to check up with all of our leaders and say,
• 1:05:54
  OK, how are you doing? How are the ministries that how
• 1:05:57
  is what is God revealing to you or let's get is there anything
• 1:06:01
  we can help you with? How can we serve you?
• 1:06:03
  How can we serve each other? And it's kind of you don't have
• 1:06:06
  it doesn't have to be approached with come to my office and then
• 1:06:09
  the door slams and then someone's getting told off like,
• 1:06:13
  Oh my God, like the Lord told me this about you.
• 1:06:15
  I mean, there's, there's a way like if I was ever in a position
• 1:06:20
  where where I was able to talk to someone in leadership and
• 1:06:25
  about something that kept getting pushed under the rug and
• 1:06:28
  no resolution. The first thing I would say is I
• 1:06:31
  would approach it with kindness. I would approach it with what
• 1:06:35
  can I do? How can I help you?
• 1:06:37
  Like, or what can we, what plan can we make?
• 1:06:40
  And, and just make it a, a safe place for the person to like,
• 1:06:44
  maybe confess what they're what they're struggling with.
• 1:06:47
  And sometimes that doesn't work either.
• 1:06:50
  I mean, and that's what I truly believe.
• 1:06:53
  Like the times where it's so it's so repetitive and it's
• 1:06:56
  swept under the rug for so long, so long, and people are leaving
• 1:07:00
  the church because of it. And I really believe that the
• 1:07:03
  only one that can do the work is the Lord.
• 1:07:06
  And so I think that produces the times where where he requires us
• 1:07:12
  to be quiet about things because he's got to do the work.
• 1:07:15
  He's got to reveal himself in such a way to this person that
• 1:07:20
  says, hey, I've called you for this position.
• 1:07:23
  I've equipped you for this, but you're going the wrong way or
• 1:07:25
  you're hurting people, you're hurting my sheep.
• 1:07:28
  And and you don't ever wanna be the wolf.
• 1:07:31
  You wanna be a sheep, you wanna be or a shepherd.
• 1:07:34
  You know, you don't want to be. There's so much, there's so much
• 1:07:37
  calling out right now and social media makes that really easy.
• 1:07:42
  But there's so many people saying the Lord gave me a word
• 1:07:45
  of this person and this person. And I believe that there is
• 1:07:49
  times where it has to be where it's on a big platform like
• 1:07:52
  that. Or, you know, I, I'm not against
• 1:07:55
  calling people out or, or I've heard other people say, well,
• 1:08:00
  some people on platforms talk about how I went to them first
• 1:08:03
  and, you know, one-on-one and they didn't take that.
• 1:08:06
  And now the Lord released me to say, and I believe that that
• 1:08:09
  happens sometimes. But I also believe that there
• 1:08:12
  are seasons where the Lord is like, I don't want you to say
• 1:08:15
  anything because I'm into the work.
• 1:08:16
  Just pray for them and just have grace and have mercy.
• 1:08:21
  But it, it really is unfortunate though sometimes because in the
• 1:08:26
  middle of the whirlwind of choices comes manipulation and
• 1:08:32
  narcissism and all of that is attached to different things
• 1:08:35
  and, and they're very different aspects of a narcissist.
• 1:08:41
  But there's also other things that we're told are narcissism
• 1:08:46
  traits and they're not. It's just choosing like, how are
• 1:08:50
  you, how are you going to choose to use the power and influence
• 1:08:53
  that you have? Because God gives us the choice
• 1:08:56
  on how we're going to use it and he gives us that free will.
• 1:09:01
  And so, you know, he, he will hold us accountable.
• 1:09:06
  But if you have, if you're on a platform and you're in a
• 1:09:10
  position of leadership, yes, God will hold you accountable.
• 1:09:14
  But people are supposed to like in within the, that small group
• 1:09:21
  of, you know, leadership pastors, let's say they're also
• 1:09:25
  their responsibility is to not sweep it under the rug, but to
• 1:09:29
  call it out for the health of their flock because they're,
• 1:09:33
  they in turn will be held accountable as shepherds that
• 1:09:36
  they are not holding their their leaders accountable.
• 1:09:41
  Because I mean, just look, and it all goes back to look at the
• 1:09:44
  fruit. What fruit are you producing?
• 1:09:46
  What is the fruit in that ministry?
• 1:09:49
  Is, is everybody leaving and they're scared to say something
• 1:09:52
  like, because they're scared of the backlash.
• 1:09:55
  Like it really goes down to the what is the fruit?
• 1:09:59
  Yeah, yeah, I could see that. It really does it when you were
• 1:10:03
  talking about do you want to be a sheep or a shepherd and how
• 1:10:07
  the inner circle of the shepherds, they there needs to
• 1:10:10
  be a culture of honesty, because I was what came to my mind when
• 1:10:17
  you were saying that was like, you know, you got this shepherd
• 1:10:21
  and his flock and we got this shepherd and his flock, the
• 1:10:24
  shepherd and his flock. And if shepherd a looks at
• 1:10:28
  shepherd sees flock and is like, man, all your sheep got crusty
• 1:10:33
  eyes. Like did you did you know that
• 1:10:38
  you're supposed to do something about that?
• 1:10:41
  Or maybe the product you're using isn't working or maybe the
• 1:10:43
  field you're taking to them to is not right or like it's just
• 1:10:48
  simply an observation. And by all accounts, like we
• 1:10:52
  should submit our hearts before the Lord and and ask him to
• 1:10:57
  search it to know that if we're willing to take that kind of
• 1:11:01
  correction or not, because it's not personal.
• 1:11:03
  It's like if somebody looks at somebody else's family, like
• 1:11:07
  let's say one man looks at another man's family is like,
• 1:11:11
  wow, your wife looks really sad and your children don't really
• 1:11:13
  talk to you like what's going on or hey, your sheep got crusty
• 1:11:17
  eyes. Like what's happening?
• 1:11:20
  It's not, it's not a value statement.
• 1:11:22
  It's it's, it's an accountability that I do agree
• 1:11:25
  with you that we're called to say those things because there's
• 1:11:29
  probably some deliverance that needs to happen or there's some
• 1:11:31
  honesty that needs to take place or some self reflection and to
• 1:11:35
  approach those things with grace.
• 1:11:36
  And how I loved how you talk about before you speak to
• 1:11:40
  somebody else, you internalize that and you think, OK, if the
• 1:11:44
  tables were reversed, how would I want somebody to approach me
• 1:11:47
  with this thing? You wouldn't want them to be
• 1:11:50
  like, your sheep are crusty. Yuck, right, You won't be, you'd
• 1:11:55
  want to be gentle, right, because you have to come from a
• 1:11:58
  place of assuming that the person cares about the effects
• 1:12:01
  they're having on others and not assuming that they have I'll
• 1:12:04
  intentions, right. That's fair until we know
• 1:12:07
  otherwise. And I also really liked what you
• 1:12:09
  were talking about stewarding. You kind of touched on it and
• 1:12:16
  you didn't really go down that rabbit hole, but like the idea
• 1:12:20
  of, of boundaries and forgiveness.
• 1:12:25
  Because I think in the church and in, in families and in a lot
• 1:12:29
  of places we get, we conflate things that don't need to be
• 1:12:34
  conflated. Like, like you said, I can
• 1:12:36
  forgive you and still not want to attend your church.
• 1:12:40
  Like you can hurt me and I forgive you because I don't want
• 1:12:43
  to be eaten alive from the inside.
• 1:12:45
  But also I'm going to have these new boundaries that will help me
• 1:12:51
  feel safe. And that's important.
• 1:12:53
  So one thing I wanted to say about that is the Lord has
• 1:12:58
  talked to me lately about self stewardship.
• 1:13:03
  And one of the things he said is that I didn't call you to be the
• 1:13:09
  sacrifice. I called you to be the beloved.
• 1:13:13
  And so I think sometimes we, we, we can get into the mentality of
• 1:13:18
  like, I have to sacrifice what feels right, what feels safe,
• 1:13:25
  what feels OK so that I can prove somehow to myself and
• 1:13:30
  other people that I forgive. And I just, I just would love to
• 1:13:35
  invite people to put a big question mark if they're meant
• 1:13:37
  mentally going there with things.
• 1:13:40
  You, you, you can forgive people and, and have firm boundaries
• 1:13:43
  around how that person interacts with you and how you interact
• 1:13:46
  with them and still be completely in forgiveness.
• 1:13:50
  It's true. You can do both.
• 1:13:52
  You can have boundaries and forgive.
• 1:13:53
  That's fair. That's good self stewardship,
• 1:13:55
  right? We don't let people just hurt us
• 1:13:57
  because they're jerks. That's not OK.
• 1:14:00
  The Lord doesn't ask us to do that.
• 1:14:03
  And so what's coming up for you when I say that, if anything?
• 1:14:07
  Yeah, it's it's like when somebody is in a position speak,
• 1:14:18
  I mean, this could be outside of church too, but where you see
• 1:14:22
  them and they're on their platform and they're, you know,
• 1:14:25
  doing their thing and it looks so shiny and bright, but then
• 1:14:29
  it's almost this thing inside where it's like, but that person
• 1:14:32
  was. Really.
• 1:14:33
  Like really mean. To me, behind the scenes.
• 1:14:37
  Or or that person said this and it and I'm still wounded.
• 1:14:43
  And so it's like, how do you, that's kind of where you have to
• 1:14:47
  ask the Lord, where do you want me, Lord?
• 1:14:50
  Like if I'm supposed to be here still, if I'm supposed to be in
• 1:14:54
  this place and I'm confronted by this weekly, then you have to
• 1:14:59
  give me the grace. Like then then I have to believe
• 1:15:02
  that you're going to make a way through this.
• 1:15:06
  Like just like how we were talking about before and you're
• 1:15:10
  going to equip me with grace and mercy and you're just going to
• 1:15:13
  grow my heart in you and you're going to reveal things about me
• 1:15:16
  through this situation. But you know how much I can
• 1:15:19
  take? You know how much that I can
• 1:15:21
  take before I, like you said, like where I I don't want to be
• 1:15:27
  destroyed in this. I don't want my spirit to break
• 1:15:29
  in this. I don't want to change and
• 1:15:31
  become just depressed all the time because of the situation.
• 1:15:35
  So the answer in that is, OK, well, I know that you love me
• 1:15:40
  and you want the best for me. So you're going to have to tell
• 1:15:42
  me where I stand in this, in this place if you want me to
• 1:15:46
  attend still, if you want me to be here because there's work to
• 1:15:50
  be done. But I need to know that I'm not
• 1:15:53
  just here for the work, but I'm here because you called me.
• 1:15:56
  And so there has to be protection.
• 1:15:58
  And that's where like the trust comes because we have to trust
• 1:16:00
  the Lord to say you either need need to equip me with everything
• 1:16:05
  that I'm going to need to walk through this and come out OK on
• 1:16:08
  the other side. And because we shouldn't have to
• 1:16:12
  be in a position where we feel like our spirit is dying or we
• 1:16:16
  feel like the life is being sucked out of us and we're just
• 1:16:19
  giving and giving and giving and the, and the life is being
• 1:16:22
  sucked. Because there's a difference
• 1:16:24
  with you can be completely full and overflowing for the Lord.
• 1:16:28
  But if you're in a situation where you feel like your energy
• 1:16:31
  is being sucked out of you every time you walk into the building
• 1:16:35
  or every time you're, you're working in ministry with
• 1:16:38
  someone, then that then there's, it's, there's questions to be
• 1:16:42
  asked. And we should never be afraid
• 1:16:45
  to, to be bold and ask the Lord, OK, what's going on?
• 1:16:48
  Or you know what, I can't take this.
• 1:16:50
  So you either have to fill this up in this area, but 'cause I
• 1:16:54
  know a lot of preachers always talk about how, oh, you gotta
• 1:16:57
  feel if you're feeling burnout, it's because you're not full to
• 1:17:00
  the rim. And there's truth in that.
• 1:17:02
  But there's also the other side of that to where it's like, no,
• 1:17:04
  I'm, I'm fully in the Lord. I'm, I'm, but I'm coming into
• 1:17:09
  the situation and there's something in this atmosphere,
• 1:17:12
  there's someone, something that they carry that that just sucks
• 1:17:15
  this out of me. And it's not because I'm not
• 1:17:19
  overflowing or because I'm not healthy.
• 1:17:21
  It's because there's something going on in this atmosphere that
• 1:17:24
  is not healthy for me. And so when that happens, it's
• 1:17:27
  always like my, my advice on my based on personal experiences,
• 1:17:32
  always go to the Lord because he's going to show you and he's
• 1:17:35
  going to let you know, okay, your time is over here and now
• 1:17:38
  I'm going to bring you here or he's going to say you're going
• 1:17:41
  to walk through it because but I'll be with you and I'm going
• 1:17:44
  to, I'm going to help you. Not going to leave you like in a
• 1:17:47
  desert alone with no water, like I'll be your, I'll be your food,
• 1:17:51
  I'll be your water. And this is how this is your
• 1:17:54
  part that you're going to do in this.
• 1:17:56
  But I'm but there's protection in that.
• 1:17:58
  So if you're ever in a situation where you're like, no, the life
• 1:18:00
  is being sucked out of me every time.
• 1:18:02
  And it's not unforgiveness. It's not because I'm not humble.
• 1:18:06
  It's not it's like God didn't make us to be doormats.
• 1:18:09
  He give us wisdom. And so he's going to give us the
• 1:18:11
  wisdom to either say this is part of your testimony or I'm
• 1:18:15
  going to work this in you while you're going through it.
• 1:18:17
  But he's never it's, it's, it should be, it should never be in
• 1:18:20
  a place where every time we go, it's just miserable.
• 1:18:25
  Like there. I mean, I don't believe that.
• 1:18:28
  I believe that even if it is a tough place that we're walking
• 1:18:32
  through, he'll give us a safe haven within that or he'll give
• 1:18:36
  us a group of amazing people that surround us in that season.
• 1:18:40
  And there was something else. I'm trying.
• 1:18:42
  I made a mental note to go back and now I can't remember, but
• 1:18:46
  but it was, it's all part of it's all really, Oh my gosh,
• 1:18:50
  it's all part of just partnering with the Lord because that's
• 1:18:54
  what we're doing. And then he's showing us and
• 1:18:56
  he's guiding us. And there are times when we
• 1:18:58
  can't see the full picture, but it's, it's, you know, we see in
• 1:19:02
  part and we know in part and then somebody else has the other
• 1:19:04
  part or the Lord has all the parts and he's just giving it to
• 1:19:07
  us like in pieces and then it, and then we're like, Oh my gosh,
• 1:19:11
  I see it, I see it, it's coming to pass.
• 1:19:14
  I see the whole picture or I see it now.
• 1:19:16
  I understand now. And, and it's just kind of like,
• 1:19:19
  I always think about that, you know, when, when we're walking
• 1:19:24
  with him and like when the bride and the groom come together and
• 1:19:29
  the bride has the veil and the groom unveils her face and, and
• 1:19:33
  she's radiant and then she sees his face.
• 1:19:36
  It's like, isn't that our walk with Jesus?
• 1:19:39
  Like, isn't that our goal to see his face and to know him?
• 1:19:42
  And so it's like, that's the answer, because if you're even
• 1:19:46
  when you're dealing with someone that has this, this a spirit of
• 1:19:49
  control, a spirit of just being mean or, or just like
• 1:19:52
  selfishness, what, what can that prayer be for that person?
• 1:19:55
  It can be God. Just let them see your face.
• 1:19:58
  Because when we, when you unveil us and we see your face, like
• 1:20:02
  everything changes. Like we have the ability, we
• 1:20:05
  have the ability to change, to change when we see his face,
• 1:20:09
  because you can't Unsee that. You can't Unsee the beauty of
• 1:20:12
  the Lord. That's so true.
• 1:20:16
  Yeah. I love what you said.
• 1:20:18
  So when I'm looking down, I'm making notes because you're
• 1:20:20
  saying such beautiful things. The confidence and peace that
• 1:20:25
  comes are the hallmarks of his leading or something you said to
• 1:20:29
  me when you were talking about. Even when you have to stand in
• 1:20:32
  hard places or say hard things, there's a confidence and a
• 1:20:36
  peace. And I used to have a past
• 1:20:39
  pastor's wife. I think she was a pastor in her
• 1:20:41
  own right, too. But she said you have to learn
• 1:20:43
  to follow the peace and that peace and that confidence that
• 1:20:48
  comes even in difficulty, even in the midst of tension is how
• 1:20:54
  you know he's he's leading you sometimes no matter how hard
• 1:20:59
  things are and how like, how am I going to get to that promised
• 1:21:02
  land over there? Jesus, this is not making any
• 1:21:04
  sense. What is this wilderness?
• 1:21:06
  You have that confidence and it's really valuable.
• 1:21:11
  And then when you were talking about being in an atmosphere or
• 1:21:15
  in a relationship, you know, creates its own atmosphere.
• 1:21:17
  And if it's just between two people, we've, I think
• 1:21:21
  culturally we, we're all familiar with the term energy
• 1:21:23
  vampires. But I think probably another way
• 1:21:28
  to think about that is prostituting the anointing.
• 1:21:32
  It's like you're taking something from somebody.
• 1:21:35
  There's probably even a worse word, maybe starts with an R,
• 1:21:40
  but you're literally taking something from somebody without
• 1:21:44
  permission. And I think that that happens a
• 1:21:48
  lot. And and it's, it's an
• 1:21:51
  entitlement. You know, people feel entitled
• 1:21:54
  to employ who the Lord is inside of you to build their Kingdom or
• 1:22:02
  to further their mission or to put on a stage.
• 1:22:07
  It's like, I'm not acting, this isn't a show.
• 1:22:12
  And I don't I'm really particularly sensitive to that
• 1:22:18
  when people do that because it's such an intimate place.
• 1:22:23
  It's like spiritual pornography or something.
• 1:22:26
  So you don't always show. It's not for show like the
• 1:22:30
  intimate places between a husband and wife.
• 1:22:32
  It's not for other people's consumption.
• 1:22:35
  And I think there's a real entitlement that takes place in
• 1:22:38
  the modern church, in the Western church maybe of like,
• 1:22:41
  I'm entitled to the intimate places.
• 1:22:43
  You've been with the Lord. What you've gained in those
• 1:22:46
  places needs to be put on display.
• 1:22:49
  And it's like, no, no, it doesn't.
• 1:22:53
  Because essentially what we experienced with him, it becomes
• 1:22:57
  his inheritance in us and our inheritance in him.
• 1:23:00
  It's a very intimate place. It's like nobody's entitled to
• 1:23:04
  the children you've made with your husband.
• 1:23:08
  It it's that, it's that, except it's spiritual.
• 1:23:12
  And when you were talking about being in that being that in that
• 1:23:19
  environment and you start to question yourself and you're
• 1:23:21
  like, man am I like I'm not in forgiveness or like, why do I
• 1:23:25
  feel so drained? I love that you're willing to
• 1:23:27
  have those conversations with yourself and in the Lord right,
• 1:23:30
  because we do need to question. We do need to take time to
• 1:23:33
  question ourselves and examine our heart on our bed before the
• 1:23:36
  Lord. We have to do those things.
• 1:23:38
  It's not easy, but we have to do them and that's OK Heart is OK.
• 1:23:42
  And in a season recently, some of y'all know my story, but I
• 1:23:46
  also got really church hurt and groomed and abused by a pastor
• 1:23:52
  And going back to church was really hard.
• 1:23:54
  So I'll just make a very quick synopsis.
• 1:23:56
  And I stayed away for a long time and I started going to
• 1:23:58
  church again and it was again really hard.
• 1:24:01
  And I wasn't really sure why, but I was doing all that
• 1:24:03
  questioning and, and, and, and somebody was like, Oh well, it's
• 1:24:06
  probably all, you know, the unforgiveness you just got to
• 1:24:08
  forgive. And I was like, man, do I
• 1:24:14
  Because I feel like I, I did and I have and I do over and over.
• 1:24:19
  And it just didn't ring as true. You know, it's like
• 1:24:22
  theologically it's the right answer.
• 1:24:25
  Sure. Is that what the Lord's asking?
• 1:24:27
  Probably not. And actually what it turned out
• 1:24:29
  to be is that the Lord was inviting me to grieve the loss
• 1:24:34
  of, of intimacy within this particular group of people that
• 1:24:40
  I was doing church with. There was a loss of of intimacy
• 1:24:44
  between us for the benefit of the ministry.
• 1:24:48
  Wow. And there was a lot of grief.
• 1:24:52
  Oh my God, Oh Anita, Oh my God. I cried from places inside of
• 1:24:57
  myself. I didn't know I had just sobbing
• 1:25:02
  really for like a couple days. And at the end of that grief,
• 1:25:07
  first it was beautiful of the Lord to invite me into that
• 1:25:10
  place because I needed again. It's like he already knows, but
• 1:25:14
  he wants us to know we really are mysteries to ourselves, are
• 1:25:17
  we not? Like, I don't know what's in me.
• 1:25:20
  I just, I'll just be screaming through life.
• 1:25:23
  And I got to slow down too. So Amen to that, folks.
• 1:25:27
  Slow down. And so he invited me to grieve
• 1:25:30
  and then he asked me to stop pretending that I was OK with
• 1:25:34
  the things. And that was that that was true.
• 1:25:40
  I was pretending. I was pretending that I was OK
• 1:25:42
  with things that I was not OK with.
• 1:25:44
  He's like, yeah, you don't have to pretend.
• 1:25:46
  You don't. You don't have to pretend.
• 1:25:48
  And and that, and then that led to what you were talking about,
• 1:25:54
  how the bride and the groom, they come together and she veils
• 1:25:57
  herself and she she allows him to unveil her.
• 1:26:04
  Like think about that act for a minute.
• 1:26:06
  Like it's the opposite of prostituting the anointing.
• 1:26:10
  It's the opposite of thinking you're entitled to the intimate
• 1:26:13
  places that someone's had with the Lord.
• 1:26:15
  She prepares herself in secret and allows him to unveil her.
• 1:26:21
  Like your surrender, your submission is it's pearls around
• 1:26:30
  your neck that you can choose to give you allow someone you trust
• 1:26:36
  to adorn you to to uncover you. And that's so sacred, right?
• 1:26:43
  It's like it's a moment of such deep intimacy that we need to be
• 1:26:48
  really careful. And that's just so impressed
• 1:26:52
  upon my heart to say to people like you don't owe anybody the
• 1:26:56
  intimate places you've had with the Lord.
• 1:26:59
  It is enough that it's between you and him.
• 1:27:02
  It really is enough. Like it's informing, it doesn't
• 1:27:07
  need, it doesn't need to be shouted from the rooftops.
• 1:27:09
  It's, it's informing eternity in ways that we just simply don't
• 1:27:12
  understand. And, and that's OK.
• 1:27:15
  He will, He will unveil us when we're ready and not before
• 1:27:24
  because he loves us then he honors us and he's interested in
• 1:27:31
  what we think and how we feel. And the last thing I'll say and
• 1:27:33
  then just go wherever you want with it.
• 1:27:36
  This is great. I was asking the Lord recently.
• 1:27:40
  Man, I don't know what to do with this super hard.
• 1:27:43
  This is literally how I talk to Jesus people.
• 1:27:45
  I'm not Jesus help. It's really so real.
• 1:27:54
  Like I don't know what to do like this situation.
• 1:27:57
  Jesus is really hard. I have to end this relationship
• 1:28:02
  that's really difficult. I have to draw the boundary
• 1:28:05
  right? And I'm like, how do I do this?
• 1:28:06
  Lord? I have been asking him Anita for
• 1:28:09
  a while and I haven't really heard an answer.
• 1:28:15
  And then today I again still I'm like, hello, I need an answer.
• 1:28:20
  Hello. And he and, and, but this whole
• 1:28:23
  time he's been giving me peace like this isn't a right or wrong
• 1:28:27
  right. This isn't true or false.
• 1:28:29
  This isn't like you're going to do it right or you're going to
• 1:28:31
  blow it. What he said to me today is I
• 1:28:33
  want you to do what makes you feel safe and what a good
• 1:28:40
  husband he is, what a good husband he is to say, my love,
• 1:28:47
  this is a very tender and and vulnerable and precarious
• 1:28:53
  situation that you face. And I'm not asking you to put
• 1:29:01
  yourself in, in the, in the firefight.
• 1:29:04
  I'm not asking you to prove your faith to me.
• 1:29:06
  I'm not. I'm not asking you to do
• 1:29:08
  anything but steward yourself well and do what makes you feel
• 1:29:14
  safe. And I just felt such liberty
• 1:29:18
  when I finally heard him say that because again, it's like
• 1:29:20
  that performance aspect of my personality that it's just
• 1:29:24
  getting stripped away more and more.
• 1:29:26
  And he's so faithful to be like, yeah, I'm not super interested
• 1:29:29
  in you performing well. I want you to be honest and I
• 1:29:33
  want you to feel safe. And I want you to know that I'm
• 1:29:35
  bringing to you what is good, even when it's hard.
• 1:29:38
  And I will see you through and everything is to your benefit.
• 1:29:42
  And I'm. So he's so interested in what we
• 1:29:44
  think and how we feel that it's not a matter of condemnation.
• 1:29:48
  It's not a matter of right and wrong.
• 1:29:49
  This isn't a multiple choice test folks.
• 1:29:53
  You know what I'm saying? Like you already passed the test
• 1:29:55
  homie, when you chose Christ in the 1st place.
• 1:29:58
  So just take a step back and relax, like relax.
• 1:30:03
  Talk to him like he's your best friend because he truly is.
• 1:30:06
  He truly is. He truly is folks.
• 1:30:10
  Oh my goodness. He's like he's he is such a
• 1:30:15
  good, good husband or father or however you're seeing him at
• 1:30:22
  this moment. Best friend, brother, He's all
• 1:30:25
  he's the best. You can just relax of whatever
• 1:30:29
  is coming up for you. With all of that rambling,
• 1:30:31
  friend, you go. Ahead.
• 1:30:33
  Well, it's definitely not rambling.
• 1:30:35
  I think it's just so rich and deep and I love listening to you
• 1:30:39
  speak because you all, you come from a place of where you're
• 1:30:44
  just going to bear it all. And people are tired of
• 1:30:49
  superficial things. And so it's like when we're able
• 1:30:52
  to just say, yeah, this is, this is what I how I feel about this.
• 1:30:57
  But this is the truth that I know about it that the word
• 1:31:00
  says, or this is what this is what the father says about us.
• 1:31:04
  This is. And so it's just, I mean, the
• 1:31:08
  world that we live in is so loud.
• 1:31:10
  There's so many things that are that are fighting for our
• 1:31:14
  attention and we give in so easily because it's the loudest,
• 1:31:18
  but it's really that soft, tender voice that has the
• 1:31:20
  wisdom. And that's when we listen to
• 1:31:23
  that and we speak from that it it's just such a deep, full
• 1:31:28
  wisdom place of wisdom and and it's always there, like he's
• 1:31:32
  always speaking and but it's just us moving out of the way.
• 1:31:36
  And I mean, it's not that we, I mean, we have to die to self,
• 1:31:40
  right? We have to die to self because
• 1:31:42
  then when when we died ourself, it's that phrase is just die
• 1:31:49
  into the sin die into all of the things that the labels that have
• 1:31:54
  been placed on us worried about what one what a ministry is
• 1:32:01
  going to think because you're telling the truth about what's
• 1:32:05
  happened to you or how you felt or it's just it's time for
• 1:32:10
  people to just come out and say this is what I've been through.
• 1:32:13
  This is what I've walked through with the Lord because that that
• 1:32:17
  rawness, that deep, that deep, those deep places where the Lord
• 1:32:22
  is giving us the, the OK to yeah, share that.
• 1:32:26
  Go ahead and share that because you don't know who's sitting
• 1:32:29
  there right now in the room dealing with fear, dealing with
• 1:32:33
  self harm, dealing with just all of these things that and they
• 1:32:37
  have they have maybe been in church the whole lives and and
• 1:32:41
  they feel like they're not enough.
• 1:32:43
  I'm not enough for this. I'm not enough for that, but
• 1:32:45
  it's like what the Lord has called you to Yeah, we're we and
• 1:32:49
  ourselves cannot do it. We and ourselves are weak, we
• 1:32:52
  and ourselves. But see, that's why we we die to
• 1:32:55
  the selfishness in ourselves, to the false humility, because
• 1:32:58
  that's a whole other thing that we can, you know, this, but that
• 1:33:04
  understanding that is wisdom, you know, and once we step aside
• 1:33:08
  from ourselves, then we can truly see who we are in the
• 1:33:10
  spirit and because we all have a purpose.
• 1:33:13
  There's so many, so many youth and, and young adults that are
• 1:33:17
  walking around when they feel like don't, they don't have
• 1:33:20
  purpose, but not just that. I mean, it starts there.
• 1:33:22
  It starts when you're young. But even like people like I, I'm
• 1:33:26
  in my 40s and I still don't, I, I still don't fully understand
• 1:33:30
  my purpose, but I have an idea of it and it really is wrapped
• 1:33:34
  up in the person of Jesus. And, and that's why when we die
• 1:33:39
  to ourselves daily, it's, it's that choice where it's like, you
• 1:33:42
  know what I'm going to choose today.
• 1:33:43
  This is my fresh start. This is I'm going to choose to
• 1:33:47
  die to these these negative thoughts that are pushing me
• 1:33:52
  down because the negative thoughts are the way that the
• 1:33:54
  enemy uses. That's the biggest arrow, that's
• 1:33:57
  the biggest dart I feel like that we all struggle with.
• 1:34:00
  Because if he can convince you that that you aren't good
• 1:34:05
  enough, then he's going to slow down.
• 1:34:08
  I mean, God will will ordain you for things and no one can stop
• 1:34:11
  that. But if he can slow it down and,
• 1:34:14
  and slow the process down or make it go around that mountain
• 1:34:17
  one more time, then it's like there's this delay and it's kind
• 1:34:21
  of like a skipped record where it just it keeps going back.
• 1:34:24
  It it pulls you back into like you regress because you're
• 1:34:28
  believing the negativity. You're you're like, I'm just
• 1:34:32
  going to hurt myself in this way or I'm going to self sabotage
• 1:34:35
  because I'm not ready When if we're it's, if it's always about
• 1:34:38
  I this, I that, then that means that we're truly not surrendered
• 1:34:42
  to the Lord because when we died of those selfish, just those
• 1:34:46
  negative things. It's not even negativity.
• 1:34:49
  It's so much more than that. But I'll just in a nutshell,
• 1:34:51
  just say when we died ourself, when we died itself, the
• 1:34:54
  selfishness that comes that that all these other things are
• 1:34:59
  attached to when we truly do that.
• 1:35:01
  And, and for me, like practically, when I start
• 1:35:05
  analyzing, OK, well, how does, if I was in this position, how
• 1:35:09
  would I feel if someone said this or, or how would I, how
• 1:35:13
  would I react? Or what is my, how am I going to
• 1:35:15
  respond? Like, how am I going to?
• 1:35:17
  And it's always like I want to respond with what's in my heart
• 1:35:20
  for the Lord and the good things.
• 1:35:22
  I want to respond out of the place of health.
• 1:35:24
  I want to respond out of the place of I'm, I'm not maybe not
• 1:35:28
  be fully healed in this area, but I'm going to recognize where
• 1:35:32
  these things are coming from, if they if they're coming down from
• 1:35:35
  generations prior or if this is a problem that I inflicted on
• 1:35:38
  myself or it's really just addressing and pulling apart,
• 1:35:44
  but not being stressed over it. Because we have to be able to
• 1:35:47
  come to the mercy seat and know that we have access to it and
• 1:35:52
  just give ourselves mercy because it's so easy to like, I
• 1:35:57
  mean, I've done it so many times.
• 1:35:58
  I can be the best encourager to somebody or even through my
• 1:36:02
  testimony, but it's like, am I really doing that to myself?
• 1:36:07
  And it goes to what you say. What about what?
• 1:36:09
  What was the phrase that you used about how you're.
• 1:36:13
  I just can't think of it right now.
• 1:36:15
  Where where you have to. Yeah, sell stewardship exactly.
• 1:36:19
  But see that all that goes, it points back to that.
• 1:36:23
  It points back to I'm, I'm a light in this way to others and
• 1:36:29
  I'm such a great encourager and I'm I champion people.
• 1:36:32
  Oh my gosh, I love to do that. I I think I'll always be like.
• 1:36:37
  But there there are times where, well, yeah, we have to look at
• 1:36:41
  that. We have to look at that.
• 1:36:42
  And that's where the health comes from.
• 1:36:46
  That's where the abundance of OK, well, now that you, you are
• 1:36:51
  stewarding yourself in this area and you're encouraging yourself,
• 1:36:54
  then I can trust you with more than I can.
• 1:36:57
  I can bring you. It's not going to, it's not
• 1:37:00
  going to crush you in a bad way. It's not going to because you're
• 1:37:03
  ready for it, because that that foundation is strong and because
• 1:37:07
  you have the confidence that because we take on the
• 1:37:10
  confidence that he gives us. And so it's like, you know, when
• 1:37:13
  you're when you know without a doubt something, it's like, I
• 1:37:16
  want to be in a place where I where I'm not doubting myself
• 1:37:20
  because I'm not looking at myself.
• 1:37:22
  I'm looking at Jesus and I'm looking at the spirit that he's
• 1:37:25
  given me and the assignment that he's given me.
• 1:37:26
  And so with that confidence, I can fulfill what he's called me
• 1:37:30
  to do on this earth because we have such a small window, We
• 1:37:33
  have such a short time. And it's like I refuse to end my
• 1:37:37
  life not doing what he's asked me to do.
• 1:37:39
  And so whatever, like whatever I have to push.
• 1:37:43
  Side in my life or lay down like that is my only goal that is all
• 1:37:47
  that I want is I just want him to like say I like that he
• 1:37:53
  accepts it because. It's for his glory, that's all.
• 1:37:55
  So it's like whatever I I gave him my yes a long time ago when
• 1:38:00
  I was so young and I said whatever I have to go through
• 1:38:02
  it, just let it be for your glory.
• 1:38:05
  And it's just like in the crushing he he will never harm
• 1:38:09
  our spirit. He will never.
• 1:38:10
  It will never. The crushing will never hurt our
• 1:38:13
  spirit, but it will crush. All of like when you have a
• 1:38:17
  diamond and there's just the dust and, and the grime all over
• 1:38:20
  it, it it's like this, this. And I don't know the name of the
• 1:38:26
  tool that they use when, when you're mining for jewels or, but
• 1:38:31
  just the different tools like that hammer or whatever it's
• 1:38:33
  called that he's using to just dust off like even the parts
• 1:38:38
  that are just hardened because they've been on that diamond or
• 1:38:43
  that jewel for so long. It's like, so it's I think it's,
• 1:38:47
  it becomes more painful because he's it's just stuck there like
• 1:38:51
  that hard, that hard crust mud, just that build up almost.
• 1:38:57
  And so when it's when it hurts more, it's because it's been
• 1:39:01
  there festering longer. And so it's not because he wants
• 1:39:04
  to break our spirit, he that he doesn't, he wants to take away
• 1:39:08
  all of the gunk that has been put on you, all of all of the
• 1:39:12
  false identities that have been put on you, all of the garments,
• 1:39:16
  The Dirty garments that you put on yourself by your words, by
• 1:39:20
  word curses, all the things that people have declared over you
• 1:39:24
  that you know are not, are not right or you know that's not
• 1:39:27
  you. But then you start believing it
• 1:39:28
  because you've been wearing it and walking with that heaviness
• 1:39:31
  for years and years and years. And So what and I feel like this
• 1:39:35
  is the picture that that I'm seeing now in the spirit where
• 1:39:38
  it is that jewel, that diamond, that Ruby, the emerald, that
• 1:39:41
  that's, that's who we are in the spirit.
• 1:39:44
  But walking for so many years in this life, you just start
• 1:39:48
  putting on these false identities and then you make
• 1:39:50
  them yours because you think they're yours because they were
• 1:39:53
  put there by somebody in authority, or they were put
• 1:39:56
  there by a loved one, or they're put there by just by even.
• 1:40:02
  Just somebody saying it all the time over you and then it
• 1:40:05
  becomes your words because we mimic whatever's in our heart
• 1:40:08
  comes out and what gets in our heart.
• 1:40:10
  Sometimes it's things that we mimic like songs.
• 1:40:14
  I mean, that's why I'm so I'm so picky when it comes to what I
• 1:40:17
  listen to because when you start mimicking, like when you listen
• 1:40:22
  to any song, you're declaring those songs out loud.
• 1:40:26
  So that is spiritually putting a mantle on.
• 1:40:29
  It's your garment. You're putting that garment on,
• 1:40:32
  right, Because the one is the Bible talk about put your
• 1:40:35
  garment of praise. So that that means that there's
• 1:40:37
  garments in the spirit that you put on yourselves and that
• 1:40:39
  others put on you, but you don't realize by repeating the same
• 1:40:43
  things you, you keep putting it on instead of the Lord is like
• 1:40:47
  telling you, that's not, that's not who you are.
• 1:40:49
  That's not who I made you to be. And so when we recognize that we
• 1:40:55
  are valuable, when we, when he starts to remove all of that
• 1:40:59
  from us, then we start to see these glimpses of, Oh my gosh,
• 1:41:03
  that's who I am. Like, you really made me like
• 1:41:06
  that. Like this is who I am.
• 1:41:07
  And so the discovery, like I'm discovering some things about
• 1:41:11
  myself that I actually, I'm like, wow, I really like that
• 1:41:14
  quality. And then I start to see, well,
• 1:41:16
  it was always there. It was just covered in, in these
• 1:41:19
  false identities or word curses or just like different things
• 1:41:25
  that people have put on me. And then I'm like, OK, yeah,
• 1:41:27
  that's who I am. But then it's like, no, we have
• 1:41:30
  to wait and know what God is giving us, what he's what
• 1:41:35
  mental, what garment he's putting on us, because sometimes
• 1:41:39
  for a different season, he'll remove a garment and then you
• 1:41:42
  feel like exposed, like wait, I thought that's part of who I am.
• 1:41:48
  But like, why are you taking it away from?
• 1:41:50
  Me. Like that's part of my identity,
• 1:41:52
  but it really isn't. It's more if you look at it as
• 1:41:55
  if you're in a season of transition.
• 1:41:57
  So you're looking, if you look at it as a garment, you look at
• 1:42:00
  it to where it's like, well, for this season, this is the garment
• 1:42:03
  that I'm worrying. But then when it's being
• 1:42:07
  removed, then it's like, OK, well, what?
• 1:42:10
  It's kind of like the excitement.
• 1:42:11
  So if you're in a season of transition and it's really
• 1:42:14
  uncomfortable and it's really hard, just think of it this way.
• 1:42:16
  Think of he has garments for you and so he's taking one off.
• 1:42:21
  But it doesn't mean that your identity and him is going to
• 1:42:24
  change. It's just it's time for a dress
• 1:42:27
  change or it's time for costume change.
• 1:42:30
  But it's not, I don't want to say costume because then that
• 1:42:32
  makes it like you said, like performance wise, but it's more
• 1:42:35
  of a just a garment of this is this is the mantle you are
• 1:42:38
  carrying. Because in this season, there's
• 1:42:40
  that one person over there in the corner that needs, needs
• 1:42:44
  this part of you to shine a little bit brighter so that they
• 1:42:47
  can see and that they can come to to know the Lord.
• 1:42:50
  And so that's how I want to look at it.
• 1:42:52
  Not I mean, because this world is all performance based
• 1:42:55
  everything. But but yeah, it's just like,
• 1:42:59
  like, don't set your whole personality surrounded by one
• 1:43:08
  thing that you know about you because there will come a time
• 1:43:11
  where the Lord says, well, this is part of who you are.
• 1:43:15
  But I'm going to mantle this for you in this season.
• 1:43:19
  So it's OK if it looks different or if it feels different.
• 1:43:22
  I'm still with you. Yeah, that's so important.
• 1:43:26
  That's so important it man. So I've I've for a long time
• 1:43:33
  been led by revelation. So I'll hear something the Lord
• 1:43:37
  will say. I'll literally ask him like talk
• 1:43:39
  to me like God, because I know I'm AII.
• 1:43:41
  Sometimes I'll make up strategies and things in my
• 1:43:44
  head, but when he talks to me like God, like I don't even
• 1:43:46
  think like that. So I know it's him for sure,
• 1:43:49
  right. And so for a season that went
• 1:43:52
  away and I didn't even really want to ask him like talk to me
• 1:43:57
  like God. And and I wasn't getting those
• 1:44:00
  deeper spiritual revelations about like mechanically what's
• 1:44:03
  happening in these situations. And it was starting to freak me
• 1:44:06
  out, right? So I was like, and it's a
• 1:44:08
  garment. It's exactly what you're
• 1:44:10
  describing. He'd he asked me to lay down
• 1:44:13
  that garment. He wasn't so forthright with
• 1:44:15
  that upfront, right? But this is what happened on the
• 1:44:18
  back end is I recognize it now, but I, I had talked to a friend
• 1:44:23
  at work and I was like, yeah, I just, I don't know what's going
• 1:44:26
  on. But like, I don't really, I
• 1:44:27
  really don't understand what's going on.
• 1:44:29
  And, and he's not giving me revelation about it.
• 1:44:31
  And she simply said, maybe he's teaching you to hear him in a
• 1:44:35
  different way. You've you've like gotten really
• 1:44:37
  good at the revelation thing. And so maybe he's now asking you
• 1:44:42
  to do something else. And she was right.
• 1:44:44
  So like I had to take off a lot. It was instead of approaching
• 1:44:49
  the lack of revelation and with self condemnation or self
• 1:44:52
  judgement or feeling like, man, I got to do more.
• 1:44:57
  The Lord sent this person right on time to be like, hey, maybe
• 1:44:59
  he's just teaching you to hear him in a different way.
• 1:45:01
  He's like, oh, oh, yeah, that's right.
• 1:45:04
  Oh yeah, He does that. OK.
• 1:45:05
  Yeah. And there was such liberty
• 1:45:07
  there, right? The confidence, the peace, it
• 1:45:09
  went before me. And so I could relax like, so
• 1:45:12
  how are you talking to me? And what he ended up showing me
• 1:45:16
  is that he wanted me to look at the scripts and the narratives I
• 1:45:21
  ran in my head about things like you were talking about that.
• 1:45:24
  Like, what am I believing about myself these other situations?
• 1:45:27
  That's not true. I remember in 7th grade,
• 1:45:30
  somebody said, don't believe everything you think someone
• 1:45:35
  said that to me. It's changed my life.
• 1:45:36
  I was like, wait a minute, I have a choice.
• 1:45:39
  Like everything I think isn't true just because I think it.
• 1:45:42
  Wow, wild blew my mind. And so it's that it's like, I
• 1:45:48
  don't think even half of our thoughts are even generated from
• 1:45:50
  our selves. I think a lot of it comes in
• 1:45:53
  from the outside. It's the mimicking you talked
• 1:45:55
  about. It's other people putting these
• 1:45:58
  false garments on us. And I don't know why garments in
• 1:46:00
  the Spirit have voices, but yo, they do and they say things.
• 1:46:03
  So do yolks. Yolks also have voices and
• 1:46:05
  they're big fat liars, unless they're Jesus, in which case
• 1:46:08
  you're feeling quite liberated. And So what are what are these
• 1:46:13
  things is like? Let's look at it, let's listen
• 1:46:17
  to it and then submit it to the Lord and discover if it's true
• 1:46:20
  or not. Because we don't have to just
• 1:46:21
  agree with every thought we have.
• 1:46:23
  We don't. And when you were talking about
• 1:46:28
  addressing the thorns in our side, of course, I thought of
• 1:46:32
  Paul where he was like, take this thorn from me, Jesus.
• 1:46:36
  And and the Lord was like, my grace is sufficient.
• 1:46:39
  And it made me think about how his it's only grace that deliver
• 1:46:42
  us, us from thorns. It's not our striving, it's not
• 1:46:46
  our super spirituality, it's not our revelation, it's not our
• 1:46:49
  worship. It's it's his grace.
• 1:46:53
  So if you're trying to deliver yourself from the thorns in your
• 1:46:56
  side with something other than his grace, it's just not going
• 1:46:58
  to work. It's literally that pick that's
• 1:47:01
  picking the dirt off the diamond.
• 1:47:05
  Yeah, pick. Is that what it was your kind
• 1:47:07
  of. Yeah, It's that's what it is.
• 1:47:09
  It's sometimes he asks us to heal in the tension of the
• 1:47:13
  environments of the relationships or the whatever
• 1:47:16
  that were actually in the struggle.
• 1:47:18
  And he's asking and inviting us to allow that struggle to be to
• 1:47:25
  to how can I say it? He's asking us in that struggle
• 1:47:32
  to steward ourselves honestly before Him so that He can meet
• 1:47:39
  us in that holy place with His grace.
• 1:47:45
  And then what is pressing on us from the outside no longer
• 1:47:51
  informs our garments or our identity or our belief, but
• 1:47:55
  instead it becomes the pick that's taking the dirt off the
• 1:47:58
  truth. And you can see it now, right?
• 1:48:01
  And then even though these outside circumstances don't
• 1:48:04
  change, you changed. And that's makes me think of
• 1:48:08
  like how it's that little grain of sand inside of an oyster that
• 1:48:11
  turns into a Pearl. Is it an oyster or a mussel?
• 1:48:15
  I'm not well versed on the sea stuff folks, but it's one of
• 1:48:19
  those things that is an oyster. You don't know Oyster.
• 1:48:23
  OK. I think it's.
• 1:48:25
  Yeah, because you eat those, right?
• 1:48:26
  Clam. Clam.
• 1:48:28
  This is a clam. I think it's a clam.
• 1:48:32
  Yeah. Yes, if it is that irritant that
• 1:48:34
  causes the Pearl right, So then there's there's discernment
• 1:48:39
  around. Do you want me to stay here and
• 1:48:41
  endure this Lord? If you don't, if you do, then
• 1:48:45
  the way you can discern that is the confidence in the peace.
• 1:48:49
  And none of this is a formula. You all you all have to do this
• 1:48:52
  inside relationship with Christ. Like you can't say Anita said
• 1:48:57
  don't do that. Don't put that on Anita.
• 1:48:59
  Don't put that false garment on Anita.
• 1:49:02
  Don't do that. You have to do it inside
• 1:49:04
  relationship with Christ. That's why it's so important
• 1:49:07
  that you have relationship with Christ and you're not just
• 1:49:09
  legalistically, militaristically, pharisitically
• 1:49:16
  going through your life. You have to live it with love
• 1:49:19
  with Christ inside so that whatever is going on in your
• 1:49:22
  life, you can you can address it with him because there's no
• 1:49:26
  formula for this folks. It's really the Pharisees that
• 1:49:29
  made the formulas and he didn't like that.
• 1:49:31
  He didn't like that. There's No 5 steps to a better
• 1:49:33
  you. There's not.
• 1:49:36
  Stop preaching 5 steps to a better you from the pulpit.
• 1:49:39
  It's just not there. You have to be naked in front of
• 1:49:42
  the Lord. That's it.
• 1:49:44
  Just naked. Yeah, well, we are on almost two
• 1:49:50
  hours and this has been such a blessing.
• 1:49:52
  So I would love to hear whatever else you have to say for the
• 1:49:58
  next 5 hours. We could just do that.
• 1:50:01
  But Lego of that, yes, I would just love to hear your closing
• 1:50:05
  remarks. Whatever's coming to your heart,
• 1:50:07
  I trust you hear the Lord well. So just go ahead wherever you
• 1:50:11
  want to go with it and pray for the people when you're done
• 1:50:14
  saying what you're saying. That'd be so wonderful.
• 1:50:16
  OK. I feel like I jumped around a
• 1:50:18
  lot, so I don't. You did great Marks we're.
• 1:50:22
  Rolling, girl, We're rolling in the deep together.
• 1:50:25
  OK, look, we got in the river and we're rolling down the
• 1:50:28
  river. We're in it.
• 1:50:30
  We're here. We're doing it together.
• 1:50:32
  I'm sure it was lovely. And you know, nobody's brain
• 1:50:35
  works in complete linear fashion, right?
• 1:50:37
  Like you're talking and my brain's going all over the
• 1:50:39
  place. And so the listeners are doing
• 1:50:40
  the same thing. It's all good, Mama.
• 1:50:43
  Tell me what your thoughts are. I with where the Lord has me
• 1:50:48
  right now and I work mentoring youth and I work with a lot of
• 1:50:53
  young adults as well. And my prayer is always like
• 1:50:55
  God. These are these are the most
• 1:50:57
  beautiful creative people that that how what can I do?
• 1:51:03
  And it's always like an I mean, I don't know that's just my
• 1:51:06
  personality. I'm like, what can I do to
• 1:51:10
  handle them properly, like with care, because the church as a
• 1:51:16
  whole, like Western, specifically Western American
• 1:51:20
  institutionalized Christianity really has done a really bad
• 1:51:24
  disservice to creatives and kind of like clip their wings in a
• 1:51:28
  way. And so a few years ago, just
• 1:51:32
  that's what I felt the Lord saying, like I trust you with
• 1:51:34
  them. And I'm like, but I don't know
• 1:51:36
  if I like, I don't want to hurt anybody.
• 1:51:38
  I don't want to put anybody in a box like I don't.
• 1:51:43
  And so it's like the reason why I brought this up is because
• 1:51:47
  that's one of the points like when we let go of that fear of
• 1:51:53
  failure or, you know, the fear of messing up, or it's just
• 1:51:58
  really when we let go of that, you don't know the limitless
• 1:52:03
  places that the Lord will take your testimony.
• 1:52:06
  You really don't know how impactful it can be to the next
• 1:52:11
  generation because they're always watching us.
• 1:52:14
  Like people say, oh, you look so young for your age.
• 1:52:18
  And it's honestly because I'm surrounded by young people and I
• 1:52:21
  feel like they just give off this, this beautiful life.
• 1:52:25
  And the Lord has allowed me to be surrounded by them for many,
• 1:52:28
  many years. And so I just, and I think about
• 1:52:32
  that and I'm like, I want to be the leader or I want to have
• 1:52:38
  like, if I'm ever given a, you know, a platform for this, I
• 1:52:41
  just want to speak with knowing where I was as a young, as a
• 1:52:46
  youth and a young adult and who I needed at that time.
• 1:52:50
  And I want to be that person to as many people.
• 1:52:53
  And so, but that does come with a weighty.
• 1:52:57
  And so I guess my point is don't be afraid, don't be afraid,
• 1:53:02
  don't be afraid of what God is walking you into.
• 1:53:06
  Don't be afraid of, oh, what if I mess up?
• 1:53:07
  Because when you are truly dead to yourself, then you can't
• 1:53:12
  because it's all Jesus, it's all the Lord.
• 1:53:14
  So, so that's why the call, the deep call is to die to self so
• 1:53:19
  that you don't have all these attachments of what if I mess
• 1:53:23
  up? What if I say the wrong thing?
• 1:53:25
  What if it's like he's going to cover it in grace and mercy
• 1:53:28
  because he's ordained you for it.
• 1:53:30
  And yeah, it's going to be be hard sometimes, but the way that
• 1:53:34
  the indication that you know it's the Lord is like you said,
• 1:53:38
  follow the peace like it's there with with peace and the
• 1:53:42
  confirmation, his confirmation of yes daughter, yes son, this
• 1:53:46
  is I am so proud of you or I I trust you is the fact that that
• 1:53:52
  he continues to just I mean love you.
• 1:53:55
  The what is the Bible talk about the word says like no height nor
• 1:53:59
  death nor even if I make my bed and is it hates like even if I
• 1:54:05
  go down to the depths, even if no matter like we cannot take
• 1:54:10
  his love will never he will always love us.
• 1:54:12
  We will not be separated. So don't believe that if you do
• 1:54:16
  something or if you mess up here.
• 1:54:17
  He already knows he that just be in the half the comfort of
• 1:54:22
  knowing that he already knows what your biggest mistake is.
• 1:54:25
  He already knows what's going to happen.
• 1:54:27
  He knows that he knows your story.
• 1:54:29
  He knows it. Yes, it's being written as we
• 1:54:32
  walk through it like our choices, but he rest in the
• 1:54:35
  peace that he already knows all of that.
• 1:54:38
  He's seen it all and he loves you and his love will never
• 1:54:42
  separate you. You can the only thing that the
• 1:54:45
  only way we can separate is we if we separate ourselves and if
• 1:54:49
  we deny, you know, and even then he still loves us because we we
• 1:54:53
  walk away. We separate ourselves from him
• 1:54:56
  by thinking I'm not worthy. I'm not, but he's, he's there.
• 1:55:01
  So if there's a tool that that I can share, like through my
• 1:55:04
  experiences, it's the tool of knowing that he already has seen
• 1:55:08
  it all and he loves you. And don't be afraid, Don't be
• 1:55:12
  afraid to use your testimony. Don't be afraid to share it.
• 1:55:15
  And, and yes, maybe you won't share every single part of it.
• 1:55:18
  God will give you, He'll let you know when and where and how.
• 1:55:23
  You just have to fully trust him.
• 1:55:25
  And that is something that even I am so walking with.
• 1:55:28
  Do I fully trust you, Lord? Like I thought I did, but I
• 1:55:31
  guess I don't in this area. So.
• 1:55:33
  So just, I mean, yeah, there's so much I I can go on and on,
• 1:55:38
  Carly, because you're so easy to talk to, but.
• 1:55:41
  I'll stop myself. Anita, is there any place that
• 1:55:45
  you post your thoughts and your your insight with the Lord or
• 1:55:49
  anything you want to share if people want to keep following up
• 1:55:51
  with you or get in contact with you, any of those types of
• 1:55:54
  things, What is about coming out are you?
• 1:55:56
  Starting a new. Country somewhere, a commune.
• 1:55:59
  We can all go live with you or no, No.
• 1:56:01
  OK, Well tell me. How I would love to be well, I,
• 1:56:06
  I have OK, I, I promise I won't go too much longer because there
• 1:56:10
  is a story behind this It's so my handle for Instagram is
• 1:56:16
  bridge of grace and it's bridge and then there's an under score
• 1:56:20
  of and then under score grace. I think that's how it's yeah,
• 1:56:25
  bridge of grace. And so a while back the Lord
• 1:56:29
  gave me that handle and I'm really bad at posting.
• 1:56:33
  Like I, I don't, I haven't posted there for a while, but so
• 1:56:38
  that the Lord gave me that because I was, I mean, I feel
• 1:56:43
  like every time I come on here and I, I tell you guys, I'm
• 1:56:46
  like, I was going through something because I, what I was,
• 1:56:49
  I was going through something and the Lord gently told me that
• 1:56:52
  I'm a bridge. And I'm like, I'm not a bridge.
• 1:56:54
  That's Jesus. Like that's the, like, that's
• 1:56:57
  not me. Like, how am I bridge?
• 1:56:59
  And like Jesus laid down his life, you know, for us and he's
• 1:57:03
  the bridge to the Father and, and he's also the bridge of
• 1:57:06
  grace. And that's where the, that, that
• 1:57:08
  came in my spirit. It's the bridge to grace, like
• 1:57:11
  the bridge. And so I, the way that he
• 1:57:15
  personalized that to me is, is the way that he created me to be
• 1:57:20
  that bridge that bridges the gap between this really young
• 1:57:24
  generation that somehow they still like me.
• 1:57:26
  Like they're, they allow me and you still they, they like me.
• 1:57:30
  So I mean, they open up, they talk to me like and then, but I
• 1:57:34
  also love being around people that are much older than me
• 1:57:38
  because of the wisdom and the richness that they carry.
• 1:57:41
  And so it's like it's going to be I use that handle because
• 1:57:46
  someday I will be bringing on creatives and interviewing them
• 1:57:51
  and just giving them a place to speak because there are so many
• 1:57:54
  young people that are full of fire for the Lord and, and that
• 1:57:57
  know the word and that that have these incredible testimonies.
• 1:58:00
  And it's like they just need to be heard.
• 1:58:02
  They need to encourage not just their generation, but they
• 1:58:05
  encourage me all the time. And it's like if we could just
• 1:58:08
  hear these beautiful voices and, and if there could be a place.
• 1:58:12
  And so that is something that I am praying and asking the Lord
• 1:58:16
  for. And I do have some things coming
• 1:58:18
  up that plans for that. But it, but like I said, it's
• 1:58:23
  the whole, this whole consecration that the Lord is
• 1:58:26
  taking me through. That's what it what it's been
• 1:58:29
  for for different things in the future.
• 1:58:33
  And so that's kind of a little bit of the story because I can
• 1:58:36
  get long winded, but I'll I'll stop myself.
• 1:58:38
  And but I just wanted to share. That's the a little bit, not the
• 1:58:42
  whole story, but a little bit of the story of that handle.
• 1:58:46
  So you can message me there. You can, you know, ask questions
• 1:58:51
  or but, but he also. Yes, sounds good.
• 1:58:56
  So bridge under score of under score grace and we'll put that
• 1:58:59
  in the show notes so people can find you and reach out to you
• 1:59:03
  and just follow all the great things that the Lord is going to
• 1:59:06
  do. I love your willingness to
• 1:59:09
  explore what's inside people. I just I think if we overcome by
• 1:59:15
  the word of our testimony, then we have to be curious about what
• 1:59:18
  other people's testimonies are right, because that's so much
• 1:59:20
  more overcoming and and it's a beautiful thing.
• 1:59:24
  And so I just honor you in your and bless you and your endeavors
• 1:59:30
  to build something beautiful with the Lord for the next
• 1:59:33
  generation and, and all the encouragement and the
• 1:59:35
  edification and hope of Christ in the next generation, because
• 1:59:43
  they're not the lost generation. No, they're they are.
• 1:59:47
  They're not amazing amazing. You're going to do great things.
• 1:59:52
  And so while I'm learning to swallow again and not choke, I
• 1:59:57
  got a tickle in my throat when you were talking.
• 1:59:58
  So I'm so sorry about that. But as we close, I would just
• 2:00:03
  love for you to close us in prayer or whatever's coming to
• 2:00:05
  your heart. And then I would love to hear
• 2:00:07
  the story of Bridge of Grace. So we'll have to come back for a
• 2:00:10
  part 4 at some point and hear about it.
• 2:00:13
  Girl, let's hear about it. Let's talk about it.
• 2:00:15
  All right? It'll be so good.
• 2:00:18
  So yeah, just close this out in prayer.
• 2:00:19
  Thank you so much for your time. I bless the Lord in your life,
• 2:00:24
  and I thank you for your willingness to be honest and
• 2:00:29
  gentle and kind and that all the things that have been hard in
• 2:00:36
  your life have birthed more grace than you and delivered you
• 2:00:42
  from judgement. It's really beautiful.
• 2:00:45
  A lot of times we can judge people harshly for the things we
• 2:00:48
  ourselves were delivered from and out of.
• 2:00:51
  But when you speak, Anita, I hear that those hardships have
• 2:00:56
  built tenderness in your heart, and that's really so precious.
• 2:01:03
  So precious. So thank you so much and I'll
• 2:01:06
  stop talking now. You pray.
• 2:01:07
  I love it. Thank you.
• 2:01:09
  OK. Thank you Father God, I just.
• 2:01:12
  Thank you for the opportunity to be here Lord, and to share your
• 2:01:16
  heart for your sons and daughters, Lord.
• 2:01:19
  I just pray that you would bless each and every person that is
• 2:01:23
  listening, Lord, and that it would not be my voice but yours
• 2:01:26
  that carries, Lord. And I pray that if there are any
• 2:01:30
  false mantels, any false identities, Lord, on your
• 2:01:33
  precious people, Lord, I pray that you would just remove them
• 2:01:36
  gently, that you would come in, Father God, with your love like
• 2:01:40
  only you can do, Lord. And that you would just gently
• 2:01:43
  remove these, these false identities, these curse words,
• 2:01:47
  that any verbal abuse, any spiritual abuse, like you just
• 2:01:50
  say in Jesus name, that you would just bind up the heart of
• 2:01:54
  your people, that you would repair it, Lord, so that it's
• 2:01:57
  just this beautiful, this beautiful declaration that they
• 2:02:01
  have on their lips. So that they would declare the
• 2:02:04
  healing that you've given to them, that they would declare
• 2:02:08
  how you pull them back together. And, and that they would use
• 2:02:12
  this Lord not as a weapon, Lord, but that it would not be a
• 2:02:15
  weapon of hurt, but that it would be a beautiful declaration
• 2:02:18
  of your mercy, your grace, and your love.
• 2:02:20
  Lord, I pray this in your name, Amen.
• 2:02:24
  Amen. Thank you, friend.
• 2:02:27
  Until next time, thank you for listening to the Millennial Must
• 2:02:30
  Receive podcast. Be blessed, be at rest, the
• 2:02:35
  victory is already yours. Friends love you.
• 2:02:38
  Bye bye. I came from the sun, the one at
• 2:02:51
  the only straight from the heavens.
• 2:02:55
  You really owe me. In my life I was beating the
• 2:03:00
  phone. All in my life I didn't handle
• 2:03:02
  hope. All in my life.
• 2:03:03
  I was stuck in on track. All in my life I didn't handle
• 2:03:06
  rap. I didn't know why my life was so
• 2:03:08
  wet. I didn't know why my life was a
• 2:03:11
  rap. I didn't know why I couldn't get
• 2:03:13
  up. I was so stuck.
• 2:03:14
  And the monkey was stuck till I found out.
• 2:03:17
  And I broke everything till I found out.
• 2:03:19
  And they took everything. Until I was hurting.
• 2:03:21
  My heart was strained. Yeah, I was broken.
• 2:03:23
  I had all this pain held on the hole.
• 2:03:26
  We got harder than this hole. I went to the side of this mode.
• 2:03:29
  I had no truth but to look to my guy.
• 2:03:32
  He gave me to me up open my eyes.
• 2:03:34
  He gave me earrings and he told me I'm blessed.
• 2:03:36
  He told me he just believe in this time.
• 2:03:38
  I told him I can't change all of my ways.
• 2:03:41
  He said I got you to look at this time.
• 2:03:43
  I looked at him and he showed me his ways.
• 2:03:45
  Then he just told me how I am this time.
• 2:03:47
  Then he just told me I'm not in this world.
• 2:03:50
  He told me I come from the heavens above.
• 2:03:52
  I'm a new creature. I come from the sun, from the
• 2:03:54
  one and only straight from Evans.
• 2:03:56
  He really owed me. I came from the sun.
• 2:03:59
  I was really with them. And heavenly places.
• 2:04:01
  I'm ceiling. Y'all can't even go that way.
• 2:04:04
  Y'all don't even know that. Way.
• 2:04:07
  Y'all want to play like Patty cake but this ain't no game but
• 2:04:10
  it's that way you wank this on fake when you walk under me and
• 2:04:14
  I know you're a snake. You think you can beat me, but
• 2:04:18
  you got no problem with you all in the way I take out that
• 2:04:22
  chopper, I'll put on your chopper and I'll prank on your
• 2:04:24
  face. I see you laughing.
• 2:04:27
  You think that you got me, but you got no way.
• 2:04:30
  The evil you said for my life is OK 'cause it's made for my good.
• 2:04:35
  My God created he created you so you really is cooked.
• 2:04:39
  I said all these things 'cause I know what is true and you know
• 2:04:42
  you is. But like I did case you can
• 2:04:46
  never win. I know the things that's gonna
• 2:04:48
  happen to you when you die. You didn't say living your life
• 2:04:53
  'cause you know you can never go and get say.
• 2:04:56
  You know his great thing, His mercy was too from you.
• 2:04:58
  When you're my son in the plot. Thought you could take on my
• 2:05:02
  God's spots now, but you can die hot.
• 2:05:04
  You was really tweaking. I come from the sun, from the
• 2:05:07
  one and only, straight from the heavens.
• 2:05:09
  You really owe me. I came from the sun, I was
• 2:05:11
  really with him and heavenly places I'm sealing living.
• 2:05:15
  Y'all can't even go that way. Y'all don't even know that way.
• 2:05:19
  Y'all want to play like Patty Kay, but this ain't no game.
• 2:05:22
  But it's that way.