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The accountability gap in reproductive choice | HBR Talk 296 · Honey Badger Radio

• 0:00
  So hello, and welcome to HBr Talk two ninety six, The Accountability Gap
• 0:06
  and Reproductive Choice. I'm your host Hannah Wallen with all of the technical difficulties
• 0:12
  in tow. I'm here with nonsense annihilator Lauren Brooks, the personification of perceptivity,
• 0:17
  Mike Stevenson, and the grossness in human relations specialist Juel Eldra. And
• 0:23
  tonight we're going to touch the third rail of gender issues. We're discussing what's
• 0:29
  wrong with all of the prevailing narratives about reproductive choice. But before we do
• 0:34
  that, gotta do what we gotta do besides the technical difficulties, and that
• 0:40
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  as well as a link to feed the Badger dot com in the drop down
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  menu at the top of the page. But with that we can get into
• 1:49
  this. So the thing that has really triggered this discussion, just to sort
• 1:57
  of introduce the topic a little bit, is a tweet from it seems like
• 2:05
  this was last month, yeah, January twenty fifth, by the vaik Ramaswami.
• 2:09
  I hope I'm pronouncing his name right. I've heard it a bunch of
• 2:14
  different ways, but I've also been told that's the correct one. But in
• 2:19
  any way, any case, he was talking about how to bridge the divide
• 2:23
  on abortion, and his method was essentially to codify into law what is already
• 2:34
  codified into law. It's like, already it's already codified into US law,
• 2:42
  not just from the state standpoint, but from the federal standpoint that if a
• 2:50
  woman carries a child a term, then the man pays child support. Right,
• 2:57
  that's already part of the law, and in fact, the federal government
• 3:01
  pays the states to go after men for child support. And that's his only
• 3:08
  stipulation was confirmation by a paternity test. But I mean, most states do
• 3:13
  that anyway, so it's not anything new. But I got to think and
• 3:17
  we really have to talk about where that comes from and what the reality is
• 3:24
  in terms of the issue itself, because it's not an issue of men just
• 3:30
  not taking responsibility. If it was that simple, then the existing laws would
• 3:37
  address the situation. But we're in a legal environment in which women frequently exclude
• 3:46
  the father from custody using the court system, using false allegations, or they
• 3:54
  just choose male sex partners that don't want to be fathers, and then their
• 3:59
  shot when after they become pregnant, the sex partner that they chose who didn't
• 4:05
  want to be a father still doesn't want to be a father. So I
• 4:12
  thought we we could talk about a few different things, the first one being
• 4:16
  the concept of surprise pregnancy. Does anybody disagree with me on the idea that
• 4:28
  there is no such thing as surprise pregnancy? Well, it's we have a
• 4:31
  word for it that I think we're supposed to call rape in the context of
• 4:38
  I don't know, I don't know what we're allowed to say on Twitter.
• 4:41
  But yeah, that's the only thing that actually counts as an actual you know,
• 4:46
  because it's surprise sex. That's the only way to actually get a surprise
• 4:51
  child. But yeah, and in basic response to Vivag's thing, it's the
• 4:56
  same. It's the three steps you get with any feminists. Step one,
• 5:00
  assume men have no problems. Step two, notice women are the only ones
• 5:04
  with the problems. Step three give men even more problems. And when we
• 5:11
  point out that, hey, Vivek, this has always been the case,
• 5:15
  there are two ways of taking it, he could either go, oh,
• 5:19
  it seems it seems this amazing out of the box thinking that I was thinking
• 5:24
  of. It has already been the case, So it's not working. So
• 5:27
  maybe we should think of something else other than blaming men and giving them more
• 5:30
  problems. And the other solution is, oh, well, I guess we
• 5:33
  should find a way to give me give men even more problems then than than
• 5:40
  even my galaxy brain can imagine. And I haven't and I haven't heard from
• 5:44
  him since since since he said that absolute cocker Maimie bollocks. Well, and
• 5:51
  what's what's so sad about it is that up until that point he had really
• 5:58
  been on point with the lot of men's rights issues, right, Like he's
• 6:02
  the only one talking about affirmative action and how that has negatively impacted men over
• 6:09
  the years. So it was kind of surprising to have him take such a
• 6:12
  hot take like this that I'm using air quotes around hot take. It's really
• 6:19
  it seems kind of tone deaf and not really on par with the rest of
• 6:27
  the stuff that he had been talking about. You would expect the same thing
• 6:32
  from any other politician. I mean, even Trump probably doesn't know about this
• 6:35
  stuff, even Trump. As though Trump is the most based politician out there,
• 6:41
  well he's not even a politician, and neither is VIVAQ. Actually they're
• 6:45
  both businessmen. I think that's why they both sound so based compared to your
• 6:48
  average career politician. But yeah, you won't hear anyone running for office who
• 6:54
  has even a cursory understanding of the kind of things that men's rights advocates talk
• 7:00
  about. You wouldn't expect them to, right. Well, and I think
• 7:03
  it's been a very successful disinformation campaign, how feminine in particular, but women
• 7:12
  in general have sort of eclipsed female agency in this particular area. So I
• 7:19
  think it's a prevailing belief or a prevailing attitude that when there is a pregnancy
• 7:26
  that is inconvenient, even if it's you can't really call it surprise, but
• 7:31
  maybe unplanned, and you know, the mother doesn't have a plan for how
• 7:39
  to take care of the baby and chose a father that maybe doesn't want to
• 7:42
  be a dad or doesn't want to marry her, doesn't have a plan for
• 7:46
  how to take care of the baby, that somehow this is the man's fault,
• 7:49
  just the man's fault. And we have feminists actively trying to enforce that
• 7:55
  belief now, But it's common even to people on all facets of the political
• 8:03
  spectrum except the men's rights movement. Well, I would say I'd like to
• 8:09
  point out I think that there is such a thing as an unplanned pregnancy,
• 8:13
  and that or a surprise pregnancy, and that happens in the situation when it's
• 8:20
  we're talking about men, because that happens all the time. There's a story
• 8:26
  going on right now that I'd like to bring up. So Clayton Eckert,
• 8:31
  he is one of I guess he was a bachelor on the Bachelor, and
• 8:37
  so afterwards he was dealing with this lady in some real estate business. I
• 8:43
  guess they had a she gave him a blowjob. Basically, that's all that
• 8:48
  happened. They never had sex. She then claims to be pregnant with twins.
• 8:54
  Right, She's taken him to court. She's got this fake belly on
• 8:58
  in the zoom court right. Absolutely, she's insane, insane the story,
• 9:05
  right, and so it's going on and on and on. Well, you
• 9:07
  know, we want proof is that there's gotta be DNA, and she's dragging
• 9:11
  it on and on and on in the courts, and so you know it,
• 9:16
  basically the lies came out, you know, because if she were pregnant,
• 9:22
  the twins would have been due on Valentine's Day, so yesterday, and
• 9:28
  so no. But the craziest thing about this story? Is that all right?
• 9:33
  You know, maybe this is oh, she really fell for the guy.
• 9:35
  And you know, you can all the excuses that people like to make
• 9:39
  when women do this kind of crazy shit, right. No, this is
• 9:43
  the fifth man that she's dumbe this to number five, okay, And it's
• 9:52
  in each one of these situations she gave the man like a relationship contract.
• 9:58
  Okay, This lady is not all put together well up there right? Well?
• 10:05
  And how many of them are there? How many of these ladies are
• 10:09
  out there too? Exactly exactly? And the thing is, it's like,
• 10:15
  right, these cases keep getting thrown out right in court, but she's allowed
• 10:20
  to keep going on and collecting victims like this, Like somebody's got to be
• 10:26
  able to stop her. Where's the accountability there? See that that takes us
• 10:31
  to one of the talking points I had for this. I have brought up
• 10:35
  the question a few times on Twitter, and and I mean I have my
• 10:39
  opinion on it. Right should should paternity fraud be criminalized? And my belief
• 10:50
  on this is based on two things. First of all, if there if
• 10:56
  there is no baby, obviously it's just the same as committing like two hundred
• 11:01
  and fifty thousand dollars worth of fraud according to what feminists claim is the average
• 11:07
  cost of raising a child from birth to eighteen years old about on top of
• 11:13
  that, and I'm sure that men who pay child support could put a dollar
• 11:18
  amount on it as well, because each one of them has a total amount
• 11:22
  that they're going to pay over their lifetime, and it's pretty high. The
• 11:24
  other thing is if there is a baby, because this does happen in cases
• 11:28
  where there is a baby, where a woman is married and she cheats on
• 11:33
  her husband and she gets pregnant during the adulterous affair, and then she passes
• 11:39
  off her lover's child as the husband's child, and then the husband invests his
• 11:46
  blood, sweat and tears and emotional attachment and everything and raising this child.
• 11:52
  And of course, now we have the common usage of genetic testing for other
• 12:00
  reasons, you know, medical reasons for family tree acquisition, you know,
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  and so on, and people are finding out how common that behavior is.
• 12:11
  And if the mother never tells the lover, hey, this is your son
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  or your daughter, and never tells the husband, this kid's not your kid,
• 12:24
  then she is basically kidnapped the father's child and defrauded the nonfather. So
• 12:35
  yeah, and those are my two points on it. Criminal and honestly,
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  like if we did a call put a call out, I'm sure we would
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  find thousands of people that have been in that exact situation, whether they found
• 12:50
  out or not. It's you know, there's kind of that that old trope
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  of like, oh, the third kid looks like the milkman, you know,
• 12:58
  like, yeah, there's in everyone's family. There's probably some story of
• 13:03
  that kind of whether it was ever confirmed or not, that kind of suspicion,
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  right, because it is so freaking common to answer, well, anyone
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  in their right mind when asked the question, should paternity fraud be be criminal?
• 13:22
  Surely the rational response is, wait, you mean it's not. Is
• 13:28
  fraud criminalized? Yes? Yeah, yeah, very much. So. Every
• 13:33
  kind of fraud is criminalized unless you put the word paternity on the beginning of
• 13:39
  it. Is there any other kind of Is there any other noun you can
• 13:43
  put in the beginning of fraud that makes it for some reason not criminalized.
• 13:48
  No, it's like with much many other things, the second you attach men
• 13:52
  to it, it becomes nobody gives a shit. It's really screwed up in
• 13:58
  this guy as uh, well in any time it happened. But so Clayton
• 14:03
  was was doing a podcast and he was talking about, you know, like
• 14:07
  his mental state. He's really screwed up in the head behind this, you
• 14:11
  know, because like, right, she only gave him a blowjob. But
• 14:18
  you know, it's still there's still a possibility if she spit it out and
• 14:24
  got herself impregnant and pregnant. It's it's been done before. Yeah, there
• 14:31
  was a court case actually on that, and the judge initially ruled that the
• 14:37
  father had given his sperm to the mother and it was hers to do with
• 14:43
  what she would, but it wasn't anymore. It didn't belong to him anymore.
• 14:48
  Yeah, it was to impregnant herself. It was it was a gift,
• 14:52
  gift ass oh my god. But he was still responsible financially for the
• 14:56
  child and had to pay her support. Now, I think that was I
• 15:01
  believe that was actually overturned, and it took a few years, a long
• 15:05
  expensive legal battle, and might not even set a precedent because it was still
• 15:11
  not a high court. It was an appeals court, but it was a
• 15:15
  lower appeals court, not like the state level or anything like that. So
• 15:22
  other states may have other judges and other states may have a different opinion and
• 15:26
  impose that different opinion. And you know, I just don't understand. I
• 15:31
  know that perjury for instance, where you testify in court to a lie like
• 15:39
  you know, this man is the father of my child when he actually isn't
• 15:43
  would be considered a crime except in cases like this, And even I think
• 15:50
  it would be even reasonable to consider it fraud when a woman claims a man
• 15:58
  is the of her child but she doesn't actually know because she slept with a
• 16:04
  bunch of guys like you know, the women that routinely go on talk shows
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  daytime popularity, you are not the father. I would call that fraud if
• 16:18
  she's trying to get financial support or force him into an unwonted relationship with her.
• 16:26
  And and when you name a man as the father of your child who
• 16:30
  isn't the father of your child, you're claiming that from a sex act,
• 16:37
  a result occurred that didn't occur, you know. Uh. And and there
• 16:42
  have been instances where women have done this and the man has said, well,
• 16:48
  I can't be because we didn't do anything right. Isn't that sexual harassment?
• 16:55
  I mean, if you say somebody had sex with you and created a
• 16:57
  child and actually never we're touched by that individual. But we don't. We
• 17:04
  don't recognize these behaviors as aggressive and harmful and unethical when women do them because
• 17:15
  the people doing them are women. Yeah, even if we do criminalize paternity
• 17:22
  fraud, it's still going to be an uphill struggle from there to even get
• 17:25
  anyone prosecuted. Is this a bad time to bring up Fanny Willis or would
• 17:32
  that be that we uh a tangent because there's something that's happening in the news
• 17:37
  right now. She's she's up on the stand, straight up admitting to fraud
• 17:41
  because she can't help herself, because because because she feels so unassailable in everything
• 17:48
  she's done, because because she's a woman and a particular kind of woman,
• 17:53
  and and we're yet to see if she actually gets prosecuted, and I get
• 17:57
  the feelings she won't. Moreover, she'll be celebrated to she just lend up
• 18:03
  with a with a with an ongoing slot on the view and on MSNBC,
• 18:10
  and she'll become a beloved celebrity because of her fraud. And that's what could
• 18:17
  continue to happen even if women can be charged with paternity fraud. It's like
• 18:22
  I say, it's we're still going to have to get it through to judges
• 18:25
  that they should charge women with it. But the term mights have always have
• 18:30
  already got so deep that even I say, criminalizing it is the first step.
• 18:37
  The next thousand steps is getting it through to the died in the world
• 18:45
  guy and eccentric beliefs that judges and juries have. But yeah, the very
• 18:51
  first step is to at least make it possible to prosecute people for for what
• 18:57
  is a form of fraud that's no worse than any other kind of fraud like
• 19:02
  it because it's basically theft, not even basically it is theft or deliberate ones
• 19:10
  and lies. Yeah, it is not even monetary, but the emotional factors
• 19:15
  that play into that, especially when they've roped a man into thinking that he's
• 19:21
  the father for you know, however many years that he is creating a connection
• 19:26
  with that child, and not not just the monetary but like, that's devastating
• 19:33
  to find out that that's not actually your kid, and we don't that doesn't
• 19:37
  even you know, we don't even touch the surface on that. Ya.
• 19:42
  Men, men will die for their children. Men will men will die to
• 19:48
  protect their children, but they'll also die to feed their children. And I
• 19:52
  look back at just just my family. My dad had four heart attacks.
• 20:00
  He had a he had a quintuple blockage in his heart and a quadruple bypass
• 20:10
  because of it on one vein for each job. And I mean part of
• 20:17
  it was because, and I've kind of inherited this, you know, my
• 20:21
  dad was kind of a workaholic. He was anything that was interesting, he
• 20:25
  would sort of turn it into a job, and he and mom ran a
• 20:29
  family business together. He was a school teacher, he worked for the newspaper,
• 20:33
  and he photographed. Oh he also ran the yearbook and photoclub at school
• 20:41
  for a long time, and then just the photo club for a while after
• 20:45
  that. When he wasn't doing that, he was a coach in the past.
• 20:48
  He did a bunch of different things. And it's partly because, you
• 20:53
  know, when you are like my dad or you're like me, you just
• 20:59
  kind of want to get yours into everything. But it's not healthy to overwork
• 21:03
  yourself. And part of it was Dad wanted my brother and me to have
• 21:10
  things that you know, we weren't only going to have if the main breadwinner
• 21:17
  of the household was willing to do what it took to bring in extra money.
• 21:23
  And I grew up in a very nice house, and I got to
• 21:29
  go on vacations with my family, and I had a great deal of outside
• 21:33
  the classroom, outside the school education that took place because of my parents.
• 21:38
  And all of these things were great and wonderful gifts that you know, I'm
• 21:45
  not unappreciated. I appreciative of that, but I wish I still had my
• 21:51
  dad instead. I'd trade it all for even one more year with my d
• 22:00
  And that bond that men have with their children, where they will destroy their
• 22:08
  bodies, they will destroy their chances of living a long life to make sure
• 22:15
  that their children are taken care of and that their children's needs are met,
• 22:19
  and everything they want for their children can be brought to pass. That happens
• 22:29
  when a woman lies and says, this is your child, and the child
• 22:33
  is not his child. Then a man is killing himself slowly for somebody that
• 22:42
  is not his family, that he didn't create, and that some other man
• 22:52
  should be investing in. And whether it's right or wrong that we leave this
• 23:00
  up to men in society, it happens. It's real. It's a fact
• 23:04
  of life, and women who commit fraternity fraud are exploiting that fact of life
• 23:17
  like that is a hell of a crime. But I think we've established that
• 23:21
  one we're talking about. The crime is exploiting men's good nature. Yea.
• 23:27
  And it's surrounded by ideologues who who don't believe in such a phenomenon as men's
• 23:34
  good nature. And I say, it's it's not just the card carrying bluehead
• 23:38
  feminists, it's the judges and the juries. Oh yeah, and that's codified
• 23:45
  into law, and it's it's actually been that way for a long time.
• 23:51
  Before, before women could be on juries, men wouldn't convict women crimes.
• 24:00
  It was difficult to get men to view women as violent to the degree that
• 24:07
  there were there were prosecutors, there were judges that had said, you know,
• 24:12
  we're not going to be able to even get women who commit murder,
• 24:17
  women who kill their babies convicted of crimes until you can get women on juries
• 24:23
  who will actually call them out on it. And unfortunately they were only half
• 24:27
  right, because there are some women, you know, they're guynocentric women,
• 24:33
  they are feminist women, and there are even traditionalist women who will not hold
• 24:37
  women accountable for their crimes. The minute that you start talking about a woman's
• 24:47
  negative actions, a woman's unethical behavior, a woman's damaging behavior. In terms
• 24:53
  of her own personal agency and personal accountability, the majority of the population,
• 25:00
  male and female, looks for the nearest man to transfer that agency to and
• 25:08
  blame for her actions. And so we have this phenomenon. Sonya Starr in
• 25:17
  her research found this that in certain areas of crime, and this does include
• 25:25
  violent crimes, there's a gap in sentencing in well the likelihood of being arrested.
• 25:33
  Men are more likelihood likely to be arrested, the likelihood of being prosecuted,
• 25:41
  being charged, being prosecuted, being convicted, and then there's a sentencing
• 25:47
  gap after conviction. And then there's also a time served gap, a percentage
• 25:55
  of the sentence served, and all of it are are greater than any of
• 26:00
  the racialities. Yeah, yeah, and all of those are greater than any
• 26:04
  of the racial disparities. In fact, when you when you account for the
• 26:11
  gender disparity and all of those and again all of those are for there literally
• 26:15
  for the same crime, for the same conditions, the racial disparities all but
• 26:22
  disappear. So yeah, female female accountability is a very difficult subject. So
• 26:33
  I would say even when you think about like something like like fetal alcohol syndrome,
• 26:40
  which men literally can't have anything to do with, right, that's never
• 26:45
  brought up or never prosecuted or never uh, there's never any any repercussions for
• 26:52
  that. It's just something we hush hush, don't talk about, and and
• 26:56
  it just keeps it never goes away. Yeah. Yeah. And then like
• 27:02
  we've actually tried and in some of the different states in Ohio in the United
• 27:07
  States, and Ohio was one of them. I know, we have tried
• 27:12
  to criminalize inflicting harm on your child by things like the use of substances during
• 27:18
  pregnancy, basically deliberately doing stupid shit, uh to that that harms your baby
• 27:26
  during pregnancy. And feminists fought to keep those laws off the books or get
• 27:33
  those laws off the books, and uh, you know they one of the
• 27:37
  things they use, of course, was because the right wing is mostly pro
• 27:41
  life, so they've said, well, these women will just abort and then
• 27:45
  their children won't be born with fetal alcohol syndrome. And so basically they exploited
• 27:56
  the pro life movement as a means of keeping women from being held accountable for
• 28:02
  birthing babies with birth injuries inflicted by the mother's behavior, you know, avoidable,
• 28:08
  completely avoidable behavior during pregnancy. My body, my choice, and anything
• 28:15
  in my body is my body, even if it's gonna be born later and
• 28:19
  is actually somebody else's body. But that's someone else part of someone else's body
• 28:26
  that's only temporarily in mind for some reason. Yeah, and this gets expensive,
• 28:33
  all right. Lack of female accountability is expensive, you know, not
• 28:37
  just in terms of the damage done to the children, not just in terms
• 28:44
  of the expense to dad's paying child support, but to the state female and
• 28:51
  accountability costs billions. And even with the collection of child support, it's still
• 29:00
  costing billions. You have a whole set of things that happen. You have.
• 29:07
  You start with the fact that many of these kids are born into financial
• 29:11
  situations that are not ideal, and a lot of them are born into poverty
• 29:17
  situations, And so the mother makes use of the welfare system, and even
• 29:22
  as the father is paying child support, the welfare system doesn't necessarily cover all
• 29:26
  of that. They're not recovering enough in child support to pay back the welfare
• 29:33
  system, and they're not recovering that without expense to the state. There have
• 29:41
  been studies that have shown that it costs the state more to recover most child
• 29:48
  support obligation than they are getting from the oblivores. They're spending so much money
• 29:56
  that they're in the red by the time they get done. And yet we're
• 30:04
  what are we talking about in terms of politics? What do we hear from
• 30:08
  politicians? Well, men need to be more responsible, We need to punish
• 30:14
  men. We need to increase their child support, we need to go after
• 30:18
  them harder, we need to spend more money collecting money from quote unquote deadbeat
• 30:26
  dads. Well that just makes a good logical government sense, now, doesn't
• 30:33
  it. Yeah, of course. And and because it's the government, they're
• 30:41
  going to find ways to spend money. It's uh for enforcement agency justifying its
• 30:48
  own existence, right, Yeah, exactly, bureaucratic mind virus. So what
• 30:57
  happens then, right? What do we look at here? The hard thing
• 31:02
  is is getting people to understand that this is not just a men's issue.
• 31:07
  This is a women's issue. And from my perspective, like I'm looking at
• 31:11
  it from a different perspective than a lot of people. I was twenty seven
• 31:18
  years old when I became temporarily unwed an unwet mother. I was thirty years
• 31:26
  old when my husband and I got married, so our our son was three
• 31:33
  when we got married, and we put the cart before the horse because I
• 31:41
  fucked up our birth control because I didn't follow the very simple instruction to take
• 31:48
  at the same time every day to keep a steady level amount in your system.
• 31:56
  And when you're on birth control pills and you go off birth control pills,
• 32:00
  your body thinks you had a miscarriage and it goes into let's get pregnant
• 32:04
  right now mode. So I did, and I watched the scatter gun effect
• 32:12
  of how that hit my family, you know, my husband, my parents,
• 32:19
  his parents, and and our kids. And it was not fair to
• 32:25
  any of them that I let that happen, and it was It's probably the
• 32:30
  in my whole life, the worst thing I've ever done was time things wrong
• 32:37
  on becoming a mom. And that was in a situation where we knew,
• 32:43
  you know, we were going to get married, we were we were going
• 32:45
  to have kids. We had one, but we were going to have kids.
• 32:50
  This this just u We did it sooner than than intended. And you
• 32:54
  know, like I said to everybody in the situation, that was demonizing him
• 32:59
  at the time, Yes, this was an unplanned pregnancy, and that it
• 33:05
  was unplanned for right now, but it's not a surprise. We had sex.
• 33:10
  I was there for it, like it's I was fully aware the whole
• 33:15
  time, quite heavily involved. Right, It's not just his fault. And
• 33:21
  I couldn't get people to understand that I had not been victimized. And you
• 33:25
  know, the only people that I had listened to me were my parents,
• 33:34
  and once they I got through to them, I'm not a victim here.
• 33:37
  This is my fault. They said, Okay, well, what are you
• 33:40
  going to do now? What are you going to do to make this up
• 33:44
  to your family? What are you going to do to pushing your child from
• 33:47
  the blow of this this difficult start? And I would say that's probably the
• 33:53
  moment where I finished growing up, because I hadn't yet. And I don't
• 34:00
  like the idea that women put themselves through that and then turn around and are
• 34:07
  miserable for the rest of their lives because society enables them to blame somebody else
• 34:16
  to not do their best to remedy the situation, and didn't teach them to
• 34:24
  do their best to avoid the situation. Because it's not that hard to avoid
• 34:30
  the situation. You got multitude of types of birth control, you don't have
• 34:37
  to just use one, And each one you use is a layer that the
• 34:44
  potential for pregnancy has to get through before it even hits the potential fail in
• 34:51
  the next layer. So if something has a ninety nine percent success rate,
• 34:58
  there's only a one percent chance that the ninety nine percent success rate of the
• 35:01
  next thing is even going to need to be relied on. So, if
• 35:09
  we want women to have a better experience, if we want women to not
• 35:14
  have to get up in the morning and worry that they're not doing everything they
• 35:20
  can do for their families, that their child doesn't have things that he should
• 35:23
  have because they screwed up and didn't give him the best start, If we
• 35:29
  want women to not be in an adversarial situation with the fathers of their children,
• 35:35
  if we want women to have happier lives, shouldn't we be emphasizing female
• 35:42
  agency in this situation. Absolutely, because that's the only way that you ever
• 35:51
  learn from anything, you know what I mean. You have to be accountable
• 35:57
  for you, should you have anything worth having is worth earning, you know
• 36:00
  what I mean? And that's just it. It's like we don't expect women
• 36:07
  to earn anything. We just hand them everything. God, well, I
• 36:15
  mean think about it this way, right, nobody has more control over what
• 36:20
  enters a woman's body with her consent than she does, right, right,
• 36:25
  So that's power. That's a lot of power in terms of reproductive choice.
• 36:32
  The primary choice before you get to should I marry the father? Should I
• 36:43
  bring the child? The term should I carry the child? The term should
• 36:45
  I abort? You know, should I retain custody or should I use the
• 36:52
  safe haven abandonment system or the adoption system relinquish custody the father? All those
• 36:55
  choices are precluded by should I have sex? Should I have sex with a
• 37:04
  guy who doesn't want to be the father of my child? How many types?
• 37:07
  Oh? Should I use birth control? And how many types? For
• 37:12
  important choices that can prevent pregnancy before you even actually get into bed. You
• 37:21
  make those choices before, like between hello and nice panties. But we can't
• 37:32
  we can't tell women that, well they most women don't want to hear that
• 37:37
  because it takes the It takes the mystery and the excitement out of out of
• 37:46
  sex, and also limits their ability to decide later that it was a mistake.
• 37:53
  Yeah, it does. It takes the it takes the care free attitude
• 38:00
  of things, right, Like you have to think you have to be mindful
• 38:04
  of your actions. But isn't it And that's not sexy, Hannah, No,
• 38:14
  it's not. It's it's funny because you know, different, different parents
• 38:22
  have different approaches to telling their kids about relationships and everything. But one of
• 38:25
  the things that my dad made sure to emphasize to me was that the thing
• 38:30
  that attracted him to my mom was that she was such a mindful and careful
• 38:35
  person. Hm. And so many women do think that's not sexy. They
• 38:46
  think you're tractor's sexy. But but they don't think that the banking you had
• 38:52
  to do to make sure you could afford it is sexy. Right. Yeah,
• 38:59
  So existing narratives like the whole men are responsible, women are victims narrative,
• 39:06
  the you can't tell women to keep their legs together, slept shaming narrative,
• 39:12
  the deadbeat dad narrative, the child support functionality narrative, all of these
• 39:19
  things, they basically put women in a position to put themselves. Girls too,
• 39:23
  in a position to put themselves through the school of self inflicted hard knocks.
• 39:30
  Why do I keep having this this horrible stinging sensation in my head while
• 39:37
  I bang myself in the head with this hammer. I don't understand why I
• 39:40
  have this terrible headache. Whap, It's clearly a man's fault. Yeah,
• 39:49
  and then let's see, it's not about the nail. It's it's about whatever
• 39:55
  hammer hammered in the nail. No, I can't remember where that hammer was
• 40:00
  or when it happened, but it's not. The point is it's not about
• 40:02
  the nail. Yeah, holy crap, it's never about the nail. Nop,
• 40:09
  and if I had a hammer, but yeah, So that the situation
• 40:15
  is that we are actually harming by as a society we are we are harming
• 40:22
  young girls and women by encouraging them to believe that any admonition uh to to
• 40:34
  be mindful in their sexual choices constitutes slut shaming and is bad. And then
• 40:40
  when they inevitably put themselves in situations that are inconvenient, expensive, painful,
• 40:49
  scary, you know, and and all of those things, and and inflict
• 40:53
  harm on their child and the father of the baby and their extended family,
• 41:00
  we don't even give them the benefit of blaming themselves for the thing that they
• 41:07
  have done and using it as a teaching moment to make themselves more accountable so
• 41:15
  that they can improve their lives and help recover some of what they took from
• 41:21
  the people around them. Like where this is, this is very harmful in
• 41:25
  damaging And if what happens if we enshrine in federal law a code by which
• 41:36
  women can just completely avoid sexual accountability and transfer it to men women, Yeah,
• 41:44
  it's ridiculous. But how women achieve accountabile or equality under that circumstance,
• 41:49
  Well they don't. And see, the thing is is that they're trying to
• 41:54
  doing it. Handling it this way is approaching it from the wrong way.
• 42:00
  Your parents are supposed to teach you about the risks associated with having sex and
• 42:07
  unprotected and what children mean, what having children means for the for you and
• 42:10
  the rest of your life. Right, it's not something you know everybody says,
• 42:16
  oh you know, well, you know the first one will give you.
• 42:20
  You know, we'll give you that one because you didn't know any better.
• 42:22
  Well, you know, I just that that excuse kind of falls a
• 42:27
  little bit flat for me, because you know, we know what causes pregnancy.
• 42:32
  You know, there's multiples, a myriad of ways to avoid getting pregnant,
• 42:38
  and you know, I don't I don't know. We were incentivizing stealing
• 42:45
  other people's stealing children for fun and profits, right right, yep, stealing
• 42:53
  children for fun and profit and and essentially financial abuse secondomic abuse, because you
• 43:01
  look at the definition of economic abuse, it basically involves limiting a person's control
• 43:08
  over their own finances in such a way that it causes them harm or distress,
• 43:15
  right, And it's significant limitations, not just like in a marriage where
• 43:24
  maybe the husband has a credit card and says no to the wife about using
• 43:29
  it for stupid things like buying new curtains when they already have curtains and they
• 43:34
  can't afford new curtains. But you know, taking away someone's ability to pay
• 43:40
  for their own food, shelter, and clothing, that kind of thing economic
• 43:44
  abuse, right, Well, there is research showing that there is a prevailing
• 43:50
  tendency within the court system to ignore men's economic situations when imposing child support obligation.
• 44:00
  And I've seen this as well. This was done to my husband by
• 44:04
  the court in regard to his ex wife. His economic situation was completely ignored,
• 44:09
  and I ended up being a breadwinner for our family for a long time
• 44:14
  because there was really no other option. I mean, we could have been
• 44:20
  dirt poor and had nothing and lived on welfare and been resentful of it.
• 44:24
  But you know, like I said, I grew up, so I wasn't
• 44:29
  gonna let that happen. And you know, he didn't want to let that
• 44:32
  happen either, But the state was taking so much of his income and sending
• 44:38
  it to his ex wife after their divorce that you know that he didn't have
• 44:44
  anything left out of his paycheck at the end of the at the end of
• 44:47
  the pay period, like he would get a paycheck for like fifteen percent of
• 44:52
  what he earned, and that's a pittance. But a lot of men don't
• 44:59
  have of a second wife after their their wife leaves them they they are single,
• 45:06
  or if they do, they don't always have a second wife who is
• 45:09
  willing to fill the role the breadwinner, you know, And and a lot
• 45:16
  of second marriages end up not working out because the first wife is such a
• 45:22
  greedy bastard, you know, greedy bitch that the second wife can't handle it.
• 45:29
  And my my response was just to work more. That's there's not much.
• 45:34
  It's what a man would have had to do right outlire. You're an
• 45:40
  outlier in that because that's not that's not so most would do right. You
• 45:46
  know, many years ago, I I was in hr and processing payroll for
• 45:52
  our workers, and I had a gentleman who had six kids from five different
• 46:00
  ladies. For however that happened, I'm not judging, but he was literally
• 46:06
  I mean, he had a great job in the warehouse, making lots of
• 46:08
  money, but he was only taking home maybe one hundred dollars a month after
• 46:14
  everything was said and done, so like, there is no way you can
• 46:16
  live on that. And what happened was as his kids would age out,
• 46:22
  the state wouldn't take any less money that the rest of that money would just
• 46:28
  get rolled to the other mothers and the other children. So there was no
• 46:32
  respite for him until yeah, until they're all eighteen. Right. But if
• 46:42
  a woman decides to have six kids from different dads or whatever, there is
• 46:46
  no there's no punishment for her, and she just can collect the money.
• 46:52
  Men don't have a way to opt out of that situation. No, But
• 46:57
  who's going to look constant these key maybe the fathers. Have you considered that
• 47:05
  you got fucking five of them. I want to give him a child each.
• 47:07
  No, you want all your children and you want all the money.
• 47:12
  Okay, well that sounds fair. See that's the other thing. Women have
• 47:19
  other options. Women do not have to retain custody, all right. A
• 47:22
  woman can after giving birth, can use the safe Haven abandonments abandonment system,
• 47:30
  can use the adoption system. If the father doesn't want custody, he's not
• 47:37
  going to object. If he doesn't want to take responsibility for the children,
• 47:42
  he's not going to excuse me object to her using the adoption system one way
• 47:47
  or another. Would a man ever be able to use the safe Haven model?
• 47:53
  What a what would a man ever be able like a father ever be
• 47:59
  able to to use the safe Haven model? And how would we test that?
• 48:02
  Well, the problem would be if the mother has custody, which in
• 48:08
  a single parent situation, the mother has custody at birth, the father would
• 48:13
  have to apply for custody, would have to sue for custody. The father
• 48:19
  even has to sue for any parental rights at all in that situation, and
• 48:24
  some states actually deny him his parental rights if he doesn't apply for the putative
• 48:34
  father registry, which puts him on the hook for child support even if you
• 48:39
  know he's not the father. He then has to fight a battle to prove
• 48:44
  he's not the father. So so either way, it's a monetary expense of
• 48:52
  going and fighting in court, right, and he would have to fight for
• 48:57
  custody and then do that and then get the mother's permission to you know,
• 49:01
  to to abandon the child. So he in any of those situations, unless
• 49:07
  the mother was totally on board with using that system, the father would be
• 49:13
  on the hook for kidnapping in that situation. If he did that, he
• 49:16
  could be convicted of kidnapping. But a mother can do it, and that's
• 49:24
  her right. The safe haven abandonment system in particular, if a mother does
• 49:29
  that, she's not going to get prosecuted. Now, it is possible if
• 49:34
  it's a situation where both parents are aware, you know, of the child
• 49:39
  and the child's residence and the father has started to become involved. If the
• 49:44
  mother does that, the father can go looking for the child and there's a
• 49:47
  chance that he can recover custody of a child in that situation. But you
• 49:54
  know, it's really those are those systems really benefit women who don't want to
• 50:00
  raise their children. They don't really exist for the benefit of men. Here
• 50:07
  here in Minnesota, they just passed alot that same sex couples. Also,
• 50:13
  if one of them gets pregnant the other, the other spouse is automatically on
• 50:17
  the hook as financially responsible. Yeah, yeah, And there are there are
• 50:25
  a bunch of things that are being done by different states. Some states will
• 50:30
  actually they'll treat a father as the father. They'll treat a man as the
• 50:37
  father of the child if he's been subjected to paternity fraud and and the woman
• 50:45
  is able to subject him to paternity fraud for a few years so that the
• 50:51
  child is like four or five years old now, and then he finds out
• 50:55
  that he's not the father, and maybe they get divorced or whatever. The
• 51:00
  courts will tell him, what you've been acting is the father of this child,
• 51:04
  so you're on the hook for child support. They won't even go looking
• 51:07
  for the real father. And of course they don't penalize the mother in any
• 51:13
  way because she has the child. We must protect women and children at all
• 51:22
  costs, right, right, and it is it is a very damaging situation
• 51:28
  for men. The the research paper by Elizabeth G. Patterson Civil contempt and
• 51:37
  the indigent child support obligor, which gives quite a bit of information on this,
• 51:45
  and even just in the opening, one of the things that she points
• 51:49
  out is the fact that the judges will routinely not just ignore a man's financial
• 51:59
  situation, but ignore his ability to meet the obligations that they're imposing. They'll
• 52:07
  they'll basically order him to pay more money than it has been proved that he
• 52:13
  makes, and if he can't, he goes to jail. So we're looking
• 52:17
  at Deb's prison. It's ridiculous, Like, how in the world do you
• 52:22
  survive on one hundred dollars a month? What in the world that? Yeah,
• 52:30
  you can't And and honestly, it's it forces people into situations where they're
• 52:36
  there. He was hustling on the side, he was created, he was
• 52:39
  doing crimes to get he was stealing. Like, it forces people into a
• 52:44
  situation where they have to go, you know, under the table and and
• 52:51
  do illegal things to survive because you do what you gotta do. Yeah,
• 52:54
  god damn. Yeah, there is no due process in this system or very
• 53:02
  little, Like you can get an attorney and try to fight for a lower
• 53:10
  child support obligation, and that can help It can be a roulette shit show
• 53:19
  if you try to do this with a public defender, but it you know
• 53:25
  you can, you can get some degree of fairness in the courts, but
• 53:31
  you're still walking in as a man. You're walking in as the bad guy,
• 53:37
  the guy who didn't stay with a woman some you know, abandoned her
• 53:43
  or whatever it's. The stereotype is that you abandoned her, and she's a
• 53:49
  victim of this abandonment. And now you're trying to also withhold support from your
• 53:54
  poor innocent child who may or may not be your kid, right, and
• 54:00
  who might actually be better off with another family if the father didn't want to
• 54:06
  become a father and the mother doesn't want to do what it takes to support
• 54:09
  the child. But yeah, states routinely do things like they do things that
• 54:19
  don't make sense, Like if a man can't meet his child support obligation on
• 54:25
  the pay that he is earning and he gets too far in arrears, they
• 54:31
  will take his driver's license, even if he's trying to pay, you know,
• 54:36
  as much as he can. They'll take his driver's license, resulting in
• 54:40
  job loss, right, And then then he can't pay at all, resulting
• 54:47
  in incarceration and they don't reduce his obligation. They just you know, let
• 54:55
  that arrears a mass. So when he gets out of jail, he now
• 55:01
  has this debt of thousands of dollars to the state. He doesn't know it
• 55:07
  to the child. The state is collecting that and as the child is on
• 55:10
  welfare, this state will keep the money because child's work for the child.
• 55:20
  Yeah. And it something that that women and dominess really do that kisses me
• 55:25
  off, is you know, make the claim that you know, men and
• 55:30
  men have abandoned their children, they don't really want to be parents. You
• 55:34
  know, when a man goes through a situation like this, it's very easy
• 55:37
  to understand how he would become resentful, you know, and and some of
• 55:42
  that would spill over onto the child, you know, unfortunately. But it's
• 55:45
  just a it's a matter of fact, you know what I mean. If
• 55:49
  the child was never in his life, he wouldn't be sitting in jail or
• 55:52
  going through the crap that he's going through because he's you know, had the
• 55:59
  wrong good times with the wrong person. Yeah, or at least was accused
• 56:06
  of having done so. Well, Yeah, exactly. Yeah, as we
• 56:08
  discussed earlier, it doesn't even need to have actually happened to make that the
• 56:14
  truth right. There have been some news stories that we've looked at in the
• 56:19
  past in regard to this. I remember one news story where a woman selected
• 56:23
  her her child's father by perusing Facebook and picking at random, named this kid,
• 56:34
  this this man as the father of her child, and the state of
• 56:39
  California sent him notification that he was on the hook for child support. But
• 56:45
  they sent it to an address where he no longer lived. And in California,
• 56:52
  if they notify you and you don't respond, and you have a sad
• 56:58
  amount of time, and if you miss your deadline to contest paternity, it's
• 57:04
  too late, and now you can even if you can prove later that you
• 57:07
  are not the father. And when he went to court and tried to prove
• 57:13
  that he wasn't contacted because they sent the information to an address where he was
• 57:20
  no longer living, the state decided that that was a sufficient effort and it
• 57:25
  was his fault for having moved, so he was on the hook. Good
• 57:32
  God, these people are criminals, yep. Well, and so to blame
• 57:42
  some of this, these tendencies are partly you know, societal that that people
• 57:49
  support this ship because they believe the deadbeat dad's stereotype. But there's a whole
• 57:53
  other thing going on. Title four D of the I believe the Social Security
• 58:02
  Act creates. It was part of the two thousand Contract for America. This
• 58:13
  was a Republican gig right where they were trying to do all this welfare reform.
• 58:20
  And as part of their whole welfare reform thing, Title four D stipulated
• 58:24
  that every dollar the state, like the individual state spends, so Ohio,
• 58:32
  California, those individual states, every dollar spent by the state trying to collect
• 58:37
  child support will be reimbursed to the state by the federal government. And what
• 58:44
  happened in Ohio when that was done, I'm pretty sure that most people in
• 58:52
  professional politics knew that Bush was going to win the two thousand election. There
• 58:59
  was there was no doubt, and so in preparation for the Contract for America,
• 59:04
  because they knew that there was going to be a Republican president and a
• 59:07
  Republican Congress and that agenda was going to get passed, the Ohio decided that
• 59:15
  child support had to be paid through the state. If you didn't pay it
• 59:20
  through the state, it was just a gift. It wasn't child support,
• 59:24
  and it didn't count, and you still owed it. And then they made
• 59:30
  it retroactive for a year, so everybody that had dutifully paid their child support
• 59:38
  during the previous year using checks so they could prove that they paid it,
• 59:44
  but not going through the state, because the state skims four dollars off the
• 59:47
  top, or at least back then it was four dollars, probably more now.
• 59:52
  They ended up owing that whole year's worth of child support as being in
• 1:00:01
  arrears. They call it being in arrears. So that happened with my husband.
• 1:00:07
  He was current on his child support for his two children from his previous
• 1:00:14
  marriage when that passed, and the state imposed a year's worth of arrears on
• 1:00:20
  him that he had already paid, and they wouldn't let him out of it,
• 1:00:24
  like this is money that you already paid. They told him that if
• 1:00:30
  his ex wife signed a letter that said that the gifts that he gave her
• 1:00:36
  were child support and admitted that that was child support, that it would count
• 1:00:40
  as child support and he wouldn't be in arrears. And of course she refused
• 1:00:45
  to do that so she could get the money again. And pretty much any
• 1:00:52
  woman will do that, right because she doesn't have to be honest. She
• 1:00:58
  doesn't have to admit she got the money. Why would she if she's not
• 1:01:04
  If she's not ethical, she's not accountable. And so every every dollar paid
• 1:01:12
  to the Child Support Enforcement Agency for processing child support, because at that point
• 1:01:21
  it was mainly just processing, would be reimbursed by the federal government. So
• 1:01:25
  that's kind of a scam, you know, on top of a scam,
• 1:01:29
  talk about incentivizing it. Yeah, yeah, and that that did lead to
• 1:01:38
  quite a bit of ridiculousness in terms of how the state treated dads, and
• 1:01:47
  there was no due process for dads. There was no recognition that being involved
• 1:01:58
  in the child's life was as important as being financially involved, and there was
• 1:02:04
  certainly no consideration for the fact that the mom could work too, right,
• 1:02:09
  And so, yeah, they they were pretty aggressive about that. And not
• 1:02:15
  only were they aggressive, they hounded partners as well. I was hounded into
• 1:02:22
  signing over my tax refunds and threatened with if you don't do this, your
• 1:02:30
  husband will go to jail for non payment of his arrears, his child support
• 1:02:34
  arrears that the state imposed after he already paid the child support. It took
• 1:02:38
  us ten years to catch up financially from that. So when we talk when
• 1:02:45
  I say economic abuse, I'm not talking you know, out my ass.
• 1:02:47
  Like when a woman creates that situation by choosing, you know, all of
• 1:02:55
  the steps, gonna have sex with a guy that doesn't want to raise a
• 1:03:00
  child with me, uh, not use enough birth control to prevent pregnancy,
• 1:03:06
  and carried a term and retain custody. She is sticking a creature, a
• 1:03:16
  mechanism on that man. That is, it's worse than trying to fight a
• 1:03:23
  dragon with a butter knife. You're you're crushed. You have no options in
• 1:03:30
  that situation. Very very difficult. I've known a couple of women, one
• 1:03:37
  in particular, who you know you talk about. They women should be accountable
• 1:03:42
  for their birth control. I knew somebody who literally poked holes in the condoms
• 1:03:49
  of the man that she wanted to entrap into being a father. Uh and
• 1:03:55
  he he was then a slave to that for eighteen years. So it's I
• 1:04:04
  know, that's not probably the common case, but it happens, and the
• 1:04:09
  fact that we can't even talk about the fact that that happens is horrible.
• 1:04:14
  It's it's common enough that it was subject matter for the talk show host Wendy
• 1:04:19
  Williams, where her whole audience was applauding that she was like, yeah,
• 1:04:25
  some guys just need a little push, you know, both colds in the
• 1:04:27
  condom. Say you're on birth control, but don't use it like this isn't
• 1:04:32
  It's not so much that it's uncommon or common, but that it is treated
• 1:04:39
  as not bad behavior right. Birth control sabotage is considered rape behavior when a
• 1:04:46
  man does it, but it's acceptable behavior when a woman does it, and
• 1:04:51
  in fact, sometimes even thought of as necessary. Yeah, it's a fun
• 1:04:57
  joke, she tells her friends, you know, years later, guess what
• 1:05:00
  I did? Yeah, you know. Yeah. Also known gals who faked
• 1:05:05
  being pregnant to get guys to marry them because you know, the guy wouldn't
• 1:05:11
  wasn't interested in getting married. You know. One of one of the guys
• 1:05:15
  that I was close to before I got married, his ex wife did that
• 1:05:21
  to him and pretended she'd had a miscarriage. So this guy went through the
• 1:05:30
  process of mourning the loss of a child that never existed because she wanted to
• 1:05:38
  make him feel obligated to marry her. And then later on she cheated on
• 1:05:42
  him with another guy and left him, got child support. They did have
• 1:05:47
  a kid after they got married, so it was, you know, she
• 1:05:54
  she was so desperate to marry this guy, and then when she was done
• 1:05:58
  with him, she went onto somebody else. So this guynocentric disconnect, though,
• 1:06:05
  that we see where society defaults to the deadbeat dad myth. And I
• 1:06:13
  call it a myth not because there are no men who fit the description that
• 1:06:16
  society has for deadbeat dads, but because if you take two people, right,
• 1:06:25
  and one of them from the beginning says, I do not agree to
• 1:06:31
  do this job, and the other one takes a whole series of steps to
• 1:06:39
  trap that person into a situation where they either have to accept or abandon that
• 1:06:45
  job, and in doing so, they create a poverty situation for a child
• 1:06:54
  and a fatherlessness situation for a child, and they demonstrate that they personally are
• 1:07:00
  a bad role model for the child. Why would you call the one with
• 1:07:05
  the least number of choices, who was open and honest from the beginning the
• 1:07:11
  dead beat because they should just want to do whatever that woman tells them to
• 1:07:19
  do. Yeah, So, has anyone else noticed that women seem to be
• 1:07:27
  well, A lot of women seem to be attracted to the deadbeat dad,
• 1:07:30
  not because he was a deadbeat dad before that happened, but because a lot
• 1:07:36
  of women like to have at least two different kinds of male partner, one
• 1:07:42
  who they like to fuck because he's buff and has a big dick, and
• 1:07:46
  another who brings emotional stability, and they do everything they can to get impregnated
• 1:07:56
  by the deadbeat, prison sculptured, huge dick guy, while often at the
• 1:08:01
  very same time in leaving the other one, yeah, looking for emotional support
• 1:08:08
  and then eventually financial support from from the guy who they are and who leaves
• 1:08:13
  them drier than the Mohave desert, and then and then they they hang about
• 1:08:17
  to dry and stuff. To what degree is is female nature to blame for
• 1:08:23
  any of this unfettered, unaccountable female nature that's that's been incentivized to just to
• 1:08:31
  just be out here living its best life with no consequences. But I think
• 1:08:40
  pretty pretty high men are responsible for who they're attracted to, Like it's no
• 1:08:45
  one else's fault that they're attracted to younger women. And you know, if
• 1:08:50
  if that's what you're into, then you have to deal with with the immaturity
• 1:08:55
  of the younger women to hear attracted and you know, yeah, I guess
• 1:08:59
  biologically you can't help that, but you know, cognitively you can. You
• 1:09:03
  can you can figure out in your own head, like should I be doing
• 1:09:08
  this? Is this the right thing to do? To what degree should I
• 1:09:11
  listen to my dick? And to what to watch? The degree should I
• 1:09:15
  listen to my fucking rational center in my brain? And you know, I
• 1:09:19
  I think men do do that's certainly once they've figured out how the legal system
• 1:09:25
  works, like, yeah, I think, I think, I think I'd
• 1:09:29
  rather go with with with with someone who's well, you know, stable emotionally
• 1:09:36
  and maybe even financially. And they do figure that out. But so many
• 1:09:41
  women don't figure this out. Right now, what's what's stopping me from from
• 1:09:45
  having a stallion on one side of me and and a rich manler on the
• 1:09:51
  other side? What is stopping me nothing? That's the point that's there.
• 1:09:58
  Incentive is it's so much of the law, is so much of what the
• 1:10:02
  law allows and disallows, like to some degree, we we we should be
• 1:10:10
  incentivizing intelligent choices rather than visceral impulses. And we do that with men.
• 1:10:20
  We just don't do it with women. And I say we. When I
• 1:10:24
  say we, I mean the legal system and the extended social system that's that's
• 1:10:33
  long since had this long slow much through the institutions pushing the Overton window one
• 1:10:41
  bit by bit, so so we we we never noticed the previous step,
• 1:10:45
  or indeed the next step, and we never notice any of the steps because
• 1:10:48
  it's because it's crept up on us. So gradually, you know, it's
• 1:10:55
  a standard for adulthood and men right, not not being slave to your impulses,
• 1:11:02
  being being having some control over your impulses, and being mindful of the
• 1:11:09
  consequences of your choices before you make your choices. And we we hear men
• 1:11:15
  called man babies and dead beats, and you know, all kinds of other
• 1:11:23
  pieces of shit, you know whatever, for failing at that. But it
• 1:11:28
  seems to be treated like it's a woman's right to fail at that. And
• 1:11:32
  if you criticize women for failing at that, you're the bad guy. Albert
• 1:11:38
  Nada retro by the way, gave us gave us five dollars in a YouTube
• 1:11:44
  super chat and pointed out that Wendy Williams. The Wendy Williams clip is in
• 1:11:50
  the Red Pill documentary which everybody should watch if you haven't. I think probably
• 1:11:55
  most of the community has seen it by now, but it definitely needs to
• 1:12:00
  be continued to be watched widespread among the population. A guy did the same
• 1:12:06
  thing to his girlfriend in Nova Scotia and went to jail for aggravated sexual assault.
• 1:12:13
  But he means he means putting holes in the condom. Yeah, putting
• 1:12:15
  holes in the condom, I think it is, which is a form of
• 1:12:17
  entrapment. It's a form of biological entrapment, so to some degree that's fair
• 1:12:21
  enough. But the same kind of entrapment doesn't go in the other direction.
• 1:12:26
  When a woman does it to a man, it's also entrapment, but it's
• 1:12:29
  less biological because you know that a man doesn't have to get pregnant. But
• 1:12:32
  it is financial entrapment, which doesn't happen when when when the man does it
• 1:12:36
  to the woman, because you know you can't financially entrap a woman into the
• 1:12:44
  financial obligations of a pregnancy. So in either direction, it is one form
• 1:12:48
  of entrapment. But one of these is completely illegals, as evidenced in that
• 1:12:55
  in that particular case, and the other is not just legal, but as
• 1:12:59
  I say, incentivized and indeed celebrated by all too much of the population.
• 1:13:04
  Yeah, and it's when we say illegal. Some countries have on the books
• 1:13:10
  that it is rape for a man to engage in stealthing, which is when
• 1:13:16
  you take the condom off without her knowing how she doesn't figure out that it's
• 1:13:21
  gone. I'm not sure because definitely feels different, but you know, or
• 1:13:30
  to poke holes in the condom, engage in any kind of birth control sabotage
• 1:13:33
  in order to create a pregnancy that the woman didn't want. If you get
• 1:13:39
  caught doing it, you can get convicted. But it's not considered rape to
• 1:13:44
  engage in sperm jacking, right to use a man's sperm in a manner to
• 1:13:50
  which he did not consent, by engaging in birth control sabotage, or engaging
• 1:13:58
  in not following a turkey baster or lying about your birth control and you know
• 1:14:08
  where you claim you're on the pill and he doesn't need to use. Guys,
• 1:14:12
  never listen when a woman says, oh, I'm on the pill.
• 1:14:14
  You don't need to wear that put it on anyway. Two reasons. Obviously
• 1:14:17
  the pregnancy thing is you know the first reason. But birth control pills do
• 1:14:27
  not prevent the transmission of any sexually transmitted diseases condoms at least prevent the transmission
• 1:14:33
  of some of them, even if they don't do all of them, so
• 1:14:39
  you at least have a chance to maintain decent hygiene during your sexual practices by
• 1:14:46
  doing that. We also got a super chat on YouTube from VAK who gave
• 1:14:55
  us nineteen ninety nine and said keep up the great content. Thank you Vake
• 1:15:00
  for that, and thanks Albert Nadaetro as well. If I didn't say that
• 1:15:05
  before, but but yeah, so you know, looking at this, we've
• 1:15:12
  sort of talked about, you know, surprise pregnancy is not real, that
• 1:15:17
  female accountability, female unaccountability is expensive, and that it's also damaging to women,
• 1:15:27
  and that you know, without that mindfulness, you end up engaging in
• 1:15:30
  failures that make your own life harder. And it's that they make the lives
• 1:15:36
  of the people that you love harder in ways that it is painful to witness,
• 1:15:42
  as especially as the person who caused it. Right, So I want
• 1:15:47
  to bring up the fact that safety nets are are dangerous in that when you
• 1:15:56
  have when you know you have a safety net, you will take risks that
• 1:16:00
  are not worth it. And when you become accustomed to always having a safety
• 1:16:06
  net. If you don't have one, you will not take risks that are
• 1:16:11
  worth it. And so what happens to women when we live in a guynocentric
• 1:16:16
  society where we are surrounded by a suffocating web of safety nets, and we
• 1:16:27
  find a hole in the safety net. We might not notice it because we're
• 1:16:33
  not paying attention right to because we have all these other safety nets. We
• 1:16:41
  might fail to do something that we should be doing because we don't have a
• 1:16:45
  safety net and we're too scared, or we might do a bunch of shit
• 1:16:50
  that we shouldn't be doing. And that's how we find the whole in the
• 1:16:56
  safety nets, the web of safety nets, and as a result, you
• 1:17:00
  know, women end up not reaching the heights that that men do. If
• 1:17:06
  if feminists really want women to become CEOs of you know, fortune, find
• 1:17:15
  five hundred companies and uh start up their own businesses and and become, you
• 1:17:23
  know, a credentialed on a broad and and high level and so on.
• 1:17:30
  Accountability is required for those You can't do those things if you rely on safety
• 1:17:34
  nets all the time and don't take chances, don't don't gamble a little bit
• 1:17:42
  or at least make you know, informed gambles and uh. As a result,
• 1:17:49
  we end up in a situation where women are constantly self sabotaging because society
• 1:17:57
  are our legal system, our government, that's a behest of the people,
• 1:18:01
  pays women to make stupid choices. If you want women to be happy,
• 1:18:06
  if you want men to be happy, if you want children to have ideal
• 1:18:11
  childhoods or at least the best that they can, stop paying women to make
• 1:18:15
  stupid choices. On that note, I'll tell you when I went back to
• 1:18:21
  college, you know, I didn't have a lot of money, but I
• 1:18:28
  went to the admissions office and they actually encouraged me to go get pregnant as
• 1:18:34
  a single woman, because then I would qualify for all sorts of subsidies and
• 1:18:41
  loans and all this forgiven money to get my degree. And I just thanked
• 1:18:47
  them and walked out. But that's the type of incentivization that you know,
• 1:18:54
  we want women to get ahead, and we want women to become CEOs,
• 1:18:58
  and we will do anything that that needs to happen to make that happen.
• 1:19:02
  What were they thinking you were going to do with the baby? Well,
• 1:19:06
  it doesn't matter, right, It's the fact that they get another woman in
• 1:19:13
  a computer science class or in some degree that that I'm underrepresented in. They
• 1:19:21
  don't give a shit about what happens to the baby. Jeez, that's we
• 1:19:28
  We had a similar experience in that. And when when we first moved to
• 1:19:33
  the Dayton metro area, I had I had three jobs and one of them
• 1:19:44
  they were all three. One of them was full time and the other two
• 1:19:46
  were part time. One of them was somewhat seasonal. That was the wedding
• 1:19:50
  photography job, but the other one was as an adjunct professor at university,
• 1:19:57
  and so I was making about a third of what I was making at my
• 1:20:04
  I wasn't full time yet at the full time job, I was working almost,
• 1:20:11
  but not quite forty hours a week, so I didn't qualify as full
• 1:20:14
  time, but I counted it as a full time job because it was like
• 1:20:19
  more than thirty hours every week and most weeks I was just an hour shy
• 1:20:26
  of what it would take to like, you work three weeks above this level,
• 1:20:30
  they have to make you full time. And so I lose the university
• 1:20:35
  job to somebody with a degree that is unrelated to the thing that I was
• 1:20:40
  teaching. I was teaching photography, because it's more important to have a degree
• 1:20:45
  than to know the subject that you're teaching in the university system, which is
• 1:20:49
  that should tell you all yes, So they didn't tell me. Like the
• 1:20:57
  day that I should have been leaving to go teach the class eighty miles away
• 1:21:01
  from where I lived, I was trying to get in touch with somebody because
• 1:21:06
  I didn't know any information about the class. They're supposed to tell me what
• 1:21:11
  classroom I was using, what my student list was, and all that stuff.
• 1:21:14
  None of that information came to me. And when I finally did get
• 1:21:17
  in touch with somebody, it was like right before I was going to have
• 1:21:20
  to leave to be on time for the first day of class, They're like,
• 1:21:26
  oh, we had have somebody else teaching that class this quarter. So
• 1:21:31
  I didn't get any notice, and it cut our budget enough that we were
• 1:21:36
  in real trouble. And I went ahead and went to the Job and Family
• 1:21:45
  Services office and applied for food stamps because we were in a desperate situation.
• 1:21:49
  And that day I went, I applied for food stamps, and I applied
• 1:21:55
  for full time status at my almost full time job, and I pretty much
• 1:22:00
  argued to them, look, you are working me an hour shy of full
• 1:22:03
  time almost every week. You obviously need me to be full time. I
• 1:22:11
  could do you know, these things that aren't getting done if I worked full
• 1:22:15
  time, why not just make me full time? And it took that conversation
• 1:22:23
  to get that, but it took it took a few months before they were
• 1:22:30
  able to get that through and everything. So we're we're on food stamps for
• 1:22:32
  lake and four to six months. And then I went into the office when
• 1:22:41
  I got full time status and thanked them for helping me through that rough time
• 1:22:47
  and my family and and said, I'm I'm now full time at the part
• 1:22:53
  time job. I got, you know, a raise because I'm qualified as
• 1:22:59
  full time, and you know, I'm not taking some of the benefits that
• 1:23:03
  you have to pay for. And you know, I got this many more
• 1:23:08
  hours and that covers what we were using. So I don't need these anymore.
• 1:23:13
  And I don't think I qualify for them anymore. And the lady looked
• 1:23:17
  me right in the eye and she says, you could still qualify if you
• 1:23:21
  divorce your husband. It's as easy as that. Yeah, Like here,
• 1:23:30
  I've got to be kidding me. It's their job, though, it's their
• 1:23:33
  job to keep you addicted to their services. Yeah. Absolutely, and and
• 1:23:44
  these you know, we're just two people. Can you imagine the scale at
• 1:23:46
  what this is happening out there. It's ridiculous. Yeah, And there's a
• 1:23:53
  reason that women are targeted with Gibbs. Women are more likely to say,
• 1:23:58
  oh, okay, I'll do that. They don't just keep you addicted by
• 1:24:02
  the way they keep you dependent, which is even worse than an addiction.
• 1:24:09
  It's like being addicted to it to a drug that's keeping you alive, even
• 1:24:14
  though you never actually needed it to keep you alive in the first place.
• 1:24:16
  But once you're on that drug, the withdrawal symptoms will kill you. It's
• 1:24:21
  it's far more nefarious than an addiction. It's probably far more nefarious than a
• 1:24:28
  dependence. It's it's it's a phenomenon for which we don't even have an adequately
• 1:24:32
  descriptive word yet. Maybe I'll come up with one one of these days.
• 1:24:36
  Yeah, And it's it's it's not just addictive. It's cyclical, the same
• 1:24:42
  way that drug addiction in families can be cyclical, and violence in families can
• 1:24:45
  be cyclical. And it's it's not just cyclical. In terms of welfare dependence,
• 1:24:53
  although there was a University of Michigan study that showed that receipt of welfare
• 1:25:00
  income does have negative effects on the long term employment and earnings capacity of young
• 1:25:06
  boys, in particular, also that boys and girls are twice as likely to
• 1:25:12
  become unweed teen parents if raised in a fatherless home and a welfare dependent home.
• 1:25:19
  Dependence on welfare increases the chance that the children will be dependent on welfare
• 1:25:26
  to like fifty percent higher. So it's it's definitely a cyclical issue, and
• 1:25:34
  a lot of welfare dependence relies on economic conditions that rely on single motherhood,
• 1:25:45
  although a lot of families do use welfare in the short term like that,
• 1:25:49
  which is it was intended to be a safety net, right, and once
• 1:25:56
  I had exposure to that safety net, I realized it's not it's poison.
• 1:26:02
  It's the minute that you touch it, you are. You are poisoned,
• 1:26:06
  the same way that an addictive drug poisons you. And it becomes tempting to
• 1:26:12
  go back there every time something goes wrong, when in fact, there are
• 1:26:17
  other things that you can do now. At the time that I lost the
• 1:26:23
  university job, that was during the Bush Obama recession. But if that had
• 1:26:29
  happened during the Trump presidency, I would have just gone and gotten another job
• 1:26:31
  because there were a lot of them available, and that would be the right
• 1:26:36
  thing to do in that instance. I don't think yourself would say that,
• 1:26:42
  but it would be better, you know. And I probably would have been
• 1:26:45
  better off because I ended up when I got full time at the gas station,
• 1:26:49
  I got trapped there for six years with a boss that was a piece
• 1:26:53
  of shit who tried to interfere in a court case that I was a witness
• 1:26:59
  in. So you know, stuff happens. But yeah, so in terms
• 1:27:06
  of encouraging women to make stupid choices, paying women to make stupid choices,
• 1:27:12
  and the damage it does in society, it creates a self fulfilling, self
• 1:27:18
  perpetuating cycle of fatherless homes, poverty, welfare dependence, increased likelihood of criminal
• 1:27:30
  behavior among the boys raised in those environments, and of sexual promiscuity among the
• 1:27:36
  girls raised in those environments, and it then creates the next generation of kids
• 1:27:44
  who are more likely to also become unwed parents themselves, both sexes. And
• 1:27:53
  it's really it's really poison. That safety net is really poison. It's bad
• 1:28:00
  for everybody, including women. So it you know needs to go. We
• 1:28:06
  also see we touched on the guynescentric disconnect. But I really want to make
• 1:28:12
  a point about this. I've been in a thread this last couple of days
• 1:28:19
  that was started by a woman who basically was like, you know, men
• 1:28:24
  shouldn't be upset about child support. It's not a gotcha. It's just supporting
• 1:28:28
  your kids, you know, and so on, and you're responsible for them
• 1:28:32
  because you had sex. Sex is consent to parenthood if you're a man.
• 1:28:38
  That was her attitude. And there was discussion back and forth about why women
• 1:28:45
  should be able to abort, but men shouldn't be able to get out of
• 1:28:47
  child support, and why these women thought that it was more dangerous to be
• 1:28:54
  pregnant than to have a job, which you know. And when I got
• 1:29:00
  into that thread, I was brought into it by somebody in the thread because
• 1:29:06
  and he always brings me the gold. But because I have had a problem
• 1:29:11
  pregnancy. My pregnancy didn't go well. It was I wasn't in the best
• 1:29:15
  of shape at the time. I was recovering from a car accident when I
• 1:29:19
  got pregnant. Uh, and so I wasn't healthy and it was I had
• 1:29:26
  an emergency C section. You know, and at the same time, part
• 1:29:30
  of the reason was because I had a work related injury from a few years
• 1:29:34
  earlier that created a lack of strength right in my my core where you know,
• 1:29:44
  you need those muscles for childbirth, and mine didn't work as well as
• 1:29:48
  they should have. But you know, so I'm talking in this thread,
• 1:29:54
  and and I'm talking to women about their capability of preventing pregnancy, and you
• 1:30:00
  know, they got pissed off the idea of having power and not having to
• 1:30:08
  be subject to abandonment, as they were claiming, and to the inconvenience of
• 1:30:15
  having to decide what to do about this pregnancy because you can. You can
• 1:30:19
  choose to wait for marriage. You can choose to only have sex with the
• 1:30:26
  guy that you want to make a family with, who has agreed that he
• 1:30:30
  wants to make a family with you. You can choose to use enough birth
• 1:30:33
  control that it's it's virtually impossible for you to get pregnant. So if you
• 1:30:39
  don't choose those things and you end up pregnant, it's because of your choices,
• 1:30:44
  right that that should tell women, I have the power to not suffer
• 1:30:49
  this consequence. I have the power to not go through this ordeal, have
• 1:30:55
  the power to not experience this, this inconvenience and as they are calling it
• 1:31:00
  a threat. Which Seventy one out of three hundred thousand women who have babies
• 1:31:09
  die of various causes during the time period between when they conceive the child and
• 1:31:15
  a year after the birth, and those are all counted as pregnancy related deaths
• 1:31:21
  in the United States. But they aren't necessarily all caused by pregnancy related causes,
• 1:31:30
  and it just happens to be in that time period of time. The
• 1:31:35
  majority of pregnancy related deaths are caused by cardiopulmonary and vascular issues that are associated
• 1:31:42
  with obesity. By the way, But if a woman commits suicide during the
• 1:31:47
  first year after her pregnancy, that's considered a pregnancy related death, and it
• 1:31:51
  may be because of postpartum depression, or it maybe for other reasons that impregnated
• 1:31:58
  her. It's only because of the man, right, Well, what these
• 1:32:01
  women were arguing was that the duration of gestation was the dangerous point in time,
• 1:32:11
  and that giving birth was what made it dangerous. But you have postpartum
• 1:32:17
  depression after your body's been pregnant and it's not pregnant anymore, and your body
• 1:32:26
  chemistry changes as a result, and miscarriage can cause it and abortion can cause
• 1:32:32
  it. Postpartum psychosis can happen after miscarriage or an abortion, and I believe
• 1:32:41
  the right to life movement calls that post abortion syndrome, and the pro abort
• 1:32:47
  movement claims it doesn't exist. But like body chemistry is body chemistry. You
• 1:32:55
  know, if it's going to affect your brain that way, it's going to
• 1:32:57
  affect your brain whether the birth is live or not. But in any case,
• 1:33:03
  so they weren't very honest about that. And when I looked into the
• 1:33:06
  statistics, there's a in terms of actual deaths within the population in the United
• 1:33:15
  States. For every woman who dies during that time period and is labeled a
• 1:33:20
  pregnancy related death, there are four or five workers who die from workplace injuries.
• 1:33:32
  So it's obviously more dangerous to have a job. And I'm that's that's
• 1:33:38
  just those Most of those on the job deaths are men, yes, Liken
• 1:33:45
  percent of them are men, and the deaths are mostly concentrated in certain work
• 1:33:53
  areas that are mostly held by men. And of course women in the thread
• 1:34:00
  immediately wanted to blame the deaths on the worker, but a lot of workplace
• 1:34:05
  injuries are caused by other people. For instance, the workplace injury that made
• 1:34:10
  my pregnancy harder the herneda disc that was caused when I was working in a
• 1:34:15
  nursing home and another woman that was working with me doing a two person lift
• 1:34:21
  for a patient that had mobility issues that would have made trying to lift her
• 1:34:30
  by oneself dangerous to her. It could could have caused muscle tears and tendon
• 1:34:36
  tears and stuff like that if you're not incredibly gentle and careful. And so
• 1:34:41
  it took two people to get her, even though she was a very small
• 1:34:45
  woman, took two people to get her out of the bed and into her
• 1:34:48
  wheelchair. And this girl had a bell go off in one of her patient
• 1:34:57
  rooms down the hall, and she just basically threw this woman into my arms
• 1:35:00
  and ran to answer the bell. It was not a good nursing home,
• 1:35:04
  and she had gotten in trouble for that before, and that's basically what they
• 1:35:09
  told her to do. And I was afraid that if I wasn't exceedingly careful
• 1:35:15
  with this woman, I was going to hurt her. So I took the
• 1:35:18
  brunt of the shock of having her weight dropped onto me and then bent down
• 1:35:26
  to put her back on the bed, and I actually felt the disk go
• 1:35:32
  and it was really discombobulating. Feeling pain didn't come till later, but it
• 1:35:39
  popped like popping your back, but it was a different kind of sideways,
• 1:35:45
  and I felt this jolt of electricity go down my leg. About a month
• 1:35:48
  later the pain started and it's been there ever since. That was nineteen ninety
• 1:35:57
  four, so I've had that pain for a long time. But that was
• 1:36:02
  work. That's how workplace injuries can happen and not be the fault of the
• 1:36:06
  individual at all. Like my choices were injure the patient that I was there
• 1:36:14
  to take care of or be injured, and that was it right. So
• 1:36:18
  the most I could be responsible for in that instance is choosing to take the
• 1:36:26
  punishment for what the neglectful coworker did instead of letting it fall on somebody that
• 1:36:34
  was more vulnerable than I was. And a lot of people end up in
• 1:36:40
  situations where somebody leaves something where they shouldn't, doesn't clean up liquids on the
• 1:36:46
  ground or the floor that should have been cleaned up, fails to flip a
• 1:36:51
  switch when they should have flipped a switch, or they flip one that shouldn't
• 1:36:55
  be flipped, and turn off safety measures. Things like that. I've had,
• 1:37:02
  I've had stupid stuff happen. I was placed in an environment that was
• 1:37:08
  overheated and underventilated until i had a heat sickness injury. And I've had lasting
• 1:37:15
  consequences from that. And that was that wasn't in an environment that was dominated
• 1:37:20
  by men. That was a retail environment, right, So workplace injuries are
• 1:37:25
  not necessarily the fault of the employee. They can be the bosses of a
• 1:37:30
  fault. They can be a coworker's fault. They can be complete chants.
• 1:37:38
  There were coworkers of mine that were injured during the two thousand and eight when
• 1:37:43
  the hurricane came up to Illinois and hit the I want to say it was
• 1:37:49
  ich Er Charlie hit the jet stream current and pushed it down to ground level
• 1:37:56
  and it scoured southern Illinois, Indiana, Ohio, and part of Pennsylvania before
• 1:38:01
  it righted itself. So we had hurricane force winds in a straight line across
• 1:38:08
  all those states and it caused a lot of damage. And there were people
• 1:38:12
  that were working that day. I wasn't at work that day, but there
• 1:38:15
  are people that were working that day who had been required to do some things
• 1:38:20
  outside because management apparently didn't know how serious the storm was, and got hit
• 1:38:27
  by debris that was blowing through the area and nobody knew that was going to
• 1:38:34
  happen. It's not normal for that to be a risk in that workplace,
• 1:38:41
  but it was that day, and that was a worker's camp lost time,
• 1:38:44
  workers comp injury, and so the idea that a workplace injury is the worker's
• 1:38:53
  fault is bullshit. It can be, but it isn't necessarily and you can't
• 1:38:58
  necessarily presume it to be, whereas pregnancy is definitely the pregnant person's fault every
• 1:39:03
  time it results from consensual sex. So it's kind of a backfiring argument.
• 1:39:12
  But yeah, that disconnect, like they went through that, They went through
• 1:39:16
  the idea that it's slut shaming to tell women to think about their actions.
• 1:39:21
  That all, they promoted the deadbeat dad's stereotype and didn't want to hear anything
• 1:39:29
  about the fact that you know, actually, there's a lot of instances where
• 1:39:32
  men want custody and can't get it, or where men just want to be
• 1:39:36
  part of the child's life and the mother shuts them out. All of these
• 1:39:41
  things are facts, right, But when you talk to women about them,
• 1:39:46
  or when you talk to advocates for women's reproductive choice about them, it's you're
• 1:39:54
  not discussing facts and logic at that point with them in their minds, you're
• 1:39:59
  attacking women, if that makes sense. Sorry, guys, are you still
• 1:40:11
  there? No? I didn't. I was like literally sitting here thinking like
• 1:40:15
  I don't have anything good to say to that, because it's just sure,
• 1:40:18
  yeah it is. It's it's just it's it's frustrating because you know, what,
• 1:40:26
  what does that? How does that define women? You know, we
• 1:40:29
  we hear all the time, you know, right wingers will say to two
• 1:40:32
  activists talking about various gender issues, when you mentioned women, what what?
• 1:40:39
  What is a woman? Right? Define women? And obviously there's a biological
• 1:40:44
  description that is a definition for women, But there's also a psychological description.
• 1:40:50
  Isn't there much much like the description of of what is a man? Which
• 1:40:59
  is off and rendered as the question what is a real man? Which is
• 1:41:02
  most the same question, and that is and never has been restricted to just
• 1:41:09
  a biological description. Ask anyone from any walk of philosophical life what is a
• 1:41:17
  real man? And they won't tell you it's an adult male human. They'll
• 1:41:23
  have all sorts of caveats, like, a real man should do this,
• 1:41:26
  A real man should do that, A real man should protect other people,
• 1:41:30
  A real man should sacrifice himself. Yeah, a real man is someone who
• 1:41:34
  needs to do hard labor and get punched in the face and have children and
• 1:41:40
  look after those children. What if he's not allowed to, it doesn't matter.
• 1:41:44
  A real man should do this, and that all these sorts of things,
• 1:41:46
  okay, And what is a woman an adult female human? Yeah,
• 1:41:53
  just the end. And this isn't just something from feminists or even leftists.
• 1:41:58
  Fucking trad cons will do this as well well without like it just goes over
• 1:42:03
  their heads that that this is an enormous double standard that a man has to
• 1:42:11
  do and a woman just has to be And then they're surprised that that men
• 1:42:15
  will just say, well, I identify as a woman, and then well,
• 1:42:19
  if if you identify as a woman, you don't have to do anything.
• 1:42:23
  You just have to be what you define as an adult female human.
• 1:42:28
  And then everyone how you get rid of accountability? Yeah, and shocked Pikachu
• 1:42:34
  face when when we get this, uh, this this bizarre cult of body
• 1:42:40
  horror where people are doing all sorts of things to pretend they're not the gender
• 1:42:45
  they are, and then do it to children as well, and then it
• 1:42:48
  spirals out from there, and it's all because of this disparity that that men
• 1:42:56
  are evil and have to do all sorts of things to to apologize and excuse
• 1:43:02
  their evil, whereas women don't have to do anything. They just have to
• 1:43:06
  be women. And you know, even that's not good enough. That for
• 1:43:13
  a lot of the proponents of this of this weird cult because because in that
• 1:43:17
  sense that they are denied agency. On the other side of their mouth,
• 1:43:21
  they like to say, we want to give women an agency, but at
• 1:43:25
  the same time that they're saying, well, women aren't responsible for anything,
• 1:43:30
  which is by definition a denial of responsibility, a denial of accountability. So
• 1:43:38
  no wonder there are so many people who who wish to escape from from this,
• 1:43:45
  from this gender binary that that they're told is a major vector of oppression.
• 1:43:50
  Like men are like, well, I don't want to be an oppressor,
• 1:43:54
  and women are like, well, I don't want to be oppressed,
• 1:43:56
  and so they go, well, what can I do to change this?
• 1:44:00
  Well, we got butterfly your genitals one way or another that'll do it,
• 1:44:02
  and it won't. But you know, people, people would rather take these
• 1:44:08
  kind of drastic measures that than you know, consider the possibility, you know,
• 1:44:15
  yeah, rather than consider the possibility that maybe a real woman has has
• 1:44:23
  just as many moral and social obligations as a real man or none of the
• 1:44:29
  above, or we just add on female humans and out of male humans like
• 1:44:34
  that that that should be the dichotomy. Either either you are a man or
• 1:44:40
  a woman because you've gone through puberty, or you're a man or a woman
• 1:44:45
  because you have certain social obligations. But we from all sides, we keep
• 1:44:53
  seeing this this double standard that you know, you know, men are defined
• 1:44:59
  by what they do and what they're obliged to do and and women are just
• 1:45:02
  women. Doesn't would it be fair to say that our society defines men as
• 1:45:12
  agents whose actions matter and women as as experiencers instead as has acted upon whose
• 1:45:25
  experiences matter, but whose actions don't even deserve consideration. They are they are
• 1:45:32
  patients deserving of care. We've I've written a bunch of blogs about it.
• 1:45:43
  It's it's it's like it's like Munchausen's by proxy writ large and spread wide,
• 1:45:54
  and it's not just feminism, it's kind of centrism. It's the whole population.
• 1:46:01
  It's the norm, not just a political belief system. It's your average
• 1:46:12
  woman, your average men. And it's it's amazing to watch the turnaround.
• 1:46:21
  The moment that you start talking about how women can control women's outcomes from the
• 1:46:30
  exercise of reproductive choice, you get inundated with but what about the men?
• 1:46:40
  Why are you blaming women? Women have the majority of power in this situation,
• 1:46:46
  but no men. Right, Why are you blaming women? Why are
• 1:46:51
  you shaming women? This isn't shaming. This is empowerment, real, actual,
• 1:47:00
  genuine empowerment. Here's what you can do to prevent things from happening in
• 1:47:06
  your life that you don't want to happen. You take control of the pathway
• 1:47:13
  to those happenings, and you disrupt where you don't go down that path.
• 1:47:19
  That's power. Why are women so afraid of that power? Why are women
• 1:47:25
  afraid to have power? Because with great power comes great responsibilities. That's exactly
• 1:47:36
  what I was gonna say. Damn it, you beat me to it.
• 1:47:41
  Responsibility is heavy. You know, any wants to pick it up and carry
• 1:47:45
  it. They don't understand the benefits. That's The thing is, I think
• 1:47:49
  that a lot of women don't understand the benefits of being responsible for themselves.
• 1:47:57
  Like you have to wait for somebody else to do everything for you if you're
• 1:48:01
  not responsible for yourself. But if you're responsible for yourself, if you're genuinely
• 1:48:11
  responsible for yourself, you don't have to wait. You just do it.
• 1:48:17
  You make your decision, and then you make your plan on how to make
• 1:48:24
  the decision manifest in reality, and then you execute the plan and you get
• 1:48:32
  the thing that was the goal. And yeah, things can go wrong in
• 1:48:38
  the interim, but if you're responsible for yourself, you have the power to
• 1:48:44
  address those as they come along. We got to stop teaching girls to be
• 1:48:50
  scary scared of that. Boys have to do that, they have to learn
• 1:48:58
  to to to navigate that. If girls learn to navigate that, I think
• 1:49:09
  women would evolve like we have devolved as a as a gender. We would
• 1:49:15
  evolve back to a stronger level of human woman, one that that hearkens back
• 1:49:23
  hundreds of years ago, where we were smarter than wiser and therefore stronger.
• 1:49:31
  But and it's frustrating to watch it not happen every day. Part of the
• 1:49:40
  reason why I wanted to do this. So the next question, and this
• 1:49:45
  this goes directly to UH and this is going to be the last question for
• 1:49:50
  tonight, but this goes directly to the question of legislation and how legislation should
• 1:49:58
  be used to handle these reproductive issues. So we talked about I pointed out
• 1:50:05
  earlier child support when it's handled by the state in the United States, it's
• 1:50:12
  handled in such a way that very often it does not go to the child.
• 1:50:16
  It goes to the state, and it's not even it's not even really
• 1:50:24
  serving the purpose going to the state that the state claims that it serves.
• 1:50:30
  If the mother goes on welfare, gets medicaid, gets welfare payments, gets
• 1:50:36
  any form of public assistance from the state, the state will keep the child
• 1:50:43
  support payments that the father pays and he'll have to pay to the state,
• 1:50:47
  and then that's it. That's where it stops, because the child is being
• 1:50:55
  billed for the mother's receipt of these benefits from the state. So is it
• 1:51:03
  really for the child? You know, obviously, if the state's keeping it,
• 1:51:09
  that's hard to argue. And we're told that the reason that the state
• 1:51:12
  keeps it is because the state's trying to recover funds that they are being paid
• 1:51:17
  to the family. But there's evidence, there's research that shows that for every
• 1:51:27
  dollar that the state collects in child support, they're spending as much or more
• 1:51:33
  on the bureaucracy that is in place to collect that child support, the effort
• 1:51:40
  that takes place collecting that child support. And the only argument for claiming that
• 1:51:49
  that's not happening anymore is that money is being transferred from another branch of government,
• 1:51:57
  the federal government, to the state government to cover that expense. But
• 1:52:01
  that's still money coming out of taxpayer pockets in the end. Either they've paid
• 1:52:06
  taxes to the state and the state is paying that money out, or they've
• 1:52:13
  paid taxes to the federal government and the federal government is paying that money out.
• 1:52:17
  So either way, the expense is being transferred to the taxpayer and they're
• 1:52:24
  not recovering any money once you subtract the amount that they've spent. And if
• 1:52:30
  you ran a business that way, say you had a store and you sold
• 1:52:35
  things, and the combined cost of your rent for the store and your utilities
• 1:52:43
  and your supply was equal to or greater than your your gross income from your
• 1:52:51
  sales, you know that would destroy the point of having a business, and
• 1:53:00
  in some areas your business is required to disband if you show no profit for
• 1:53:06
  a certain number of years, So it can't really be said that it's for
• 1:53:12
  the state either. So is it just punishment? Is it the only purpose
• 1:53:17
  of child support to punish the father the child for being a father? I
• 1:53:30
  mean that it seems that way because nothing. I am a little bit biased
• 1:53:38
  because I am more anarchists than any other political affiliation, but that doesn't seem
• 1:53:45
  like a good way to manage taxpayer money. And I don't know if any
• 1:53:53
  of it really happens as a result of purpose. I mean, I don't
• 1:53:58
  want to say that less I be hold a conspiracy theorist, but that to
• 1:54:02
  some degree Handlon's Raiser does apply. It's it's not done for the purpose of
• 1:54:10
  punishing men. It's just the path of least resistance. It's it's perpetrated by
• 1:54:15
  people who don't even see it as a punishment. They just see it as
• 1:54:17
  well, how we're going to hold society together, We'll we'll make men do
• 1:54:24
  it. And they don't consider it a punishment. They just think it's the
• 1:54:30
  it's the natural state of things too. To extract labor and wealth from men.
• 1:54:38
  Like I said that, they don't. They don't give it a second
• 1:54:41
  thought. It's it's, uh, that's just what needs to be done,
• 1:54:45
  and that's that's just how it is, and it doesn't matter that it's on
• 1:54:48
  the backs of men. The reaction if if if the same thing was done
• 1:54:53
  to women, they would consider that a punishment and they'll be like, well,
• 1:54:56
  why should we punish women? And then we're like, well, why
• 1:54:59
  are you punishing me? We're not punishing men with this, we're not blaming
• 1:55:03
  men. They actually are to blame. Yeah, it really strikes me that
• 1:55:11
  in terms of if you judge child support by what it's actually achieving, it
• 1:55:16
  doesn't have any valid purpose. The two things that it actually does is perpetuate
• 1:55:24
  bureaucracy and punish men, and neither of those are its stated purpose. But
• 1:55:38
  with that, I think we probably ought to call it. We've had about
• 1:55:42
  two hours of discussion here and I think they've been a pretty good two hours,
• 1:55:46
  pretty productive. So thank you a lot for hosting this. Oh I'm
• 1:55:53
  glad to I'm going to read off a couple of things because I am,
• 1:55:56
  like I said, streaming this space to a bunch of other locations. So
• 1:56:03
  we got a super chow from Meredith g who said, HBr talked to sixty
• 1:56:10
  nine Honey for the Badgers and thanks for the conversation. I think we got
• 1:56:14
  another super chat too, but I might be wrong. Oh we did get
• 1:56:17
  one. I just scrolled past it. There we go. I'm scrolling too
• 1:56:23
  fast. Albert Nada Retro gave his five dollars Canadian and said, on Tuesdays
• 1:56:27
  and Thursdays, I identify as the helicopter from Airwolf. I'm offended that my
• 1:56:31
  theme isn't in Brian's sound bites. He's an anti avianation aviationist. Oh yeah,
• 1:56:39
  Brian likes to play soundbites during the show. I missed doing that.
• 1:56:42
  I used to do that when I was in college. I had a radio
• 1:56:45
  show. It was campus radio that went through the phone line so it didn't
• 1:56:47
  go off campus. And I this is I'm going to date myself here.
• 1:56:53
  I had a Macintosh se all in one with like I think the screen was
• 1:56:59
  like eight inches and I would put that in a backpack and total it across
• 1:57:04
  campus to their radio station and hook it up before my show. And I
• 1:57:10
  had a bunch of buttons created with sound effects and HyperCard. Half my audience
• 1:57:16
  is going to be like, what the hell is HyperCard? What is a
• 1:57:19
  mac se? But I used to use that through the whole show, playing
• 1:57:26
  sound effects from sound bites from movies and you know, sound effects from from
• 1:57:30
  games and stuff that I had on the on the computer because you could It
• 1:57:34
  was back in the day when you used to be able to get into the
• 1:57:38
  files on programs that you would buy to run on your computer, and if
• 1:57:43
  there were sound files, you could copy them. So I had a bunch.
• 1:57:47
  But but yeah, Brian start now o g hacker. Yeah, it
• 1:57:55
  was fun and I bet you used on right. Oh yeah, one will
• 1:58:00
  Never Die is the most ubiquitous sound effect was among the sounds. Yeah.
• 1:58:06
  I also had Monty Python quotes that were a part from from freeware, so
• 1:58:15
  it was quite fun. But in any case, yeah, I the bad
• 1:58:24
  sad says. I tried a couple of jokes on how you said date yourself.
• 1:58:29
  Yeah, I suppose if I date myself that's still cheating, isn't it,
• 1:58:34
  So I shouldn't do that. In any case, Thanks everybody for listening,
• 1:58:40
  and hopefully I've given everybody a lot of things to think about in regard
• 1:58:43
  to the issue of reproductive choice, the accountability gap and reproductive choice choice,
• 1:58:50
  which we've pretty much demonstrated as humongous, and the idea of addressing reproductive choice
• 1:58:59
  issues and the circumstances that are created by women's reproductive choices, specifically with laws
• 1:59:06
  that transfer or at least attempt to transfer accountability for them responsibility for them to
• 1:59:14
  men. Thanks everybody for joining me tonight. And so some people have been
• 1:59:20
  asking who who the avatar is? The new avatar is At the beginning of
• 1:59:28
  this show, I kind of introduced her. Uh, but this is this
• 1:59:33
  is the gross grossness in human relations specialist Juel Eldra So in the image on
• 1:59:46
  the screen, it's above those of us sitting at the desk. For those
• 1:59:49
  who are watching the live stream on YouTube and other sites that have imagery,
• 1:59:56
  it's the one that's right, Honey badger Bite. Yeah, it's your you
• 2:00:00
  look like bigger ed on YouTube, but you'll see Alison's face with the Honey
• 2:00:06
  badger Bite account. And then right next to the Honey Badger Bite account,
• 2:00:11
  you'll see Jewel El Dora. So I do recommend giving Jewel a follow on
• 2:00:16
  on Twitter if you are listening to us on Twitter or if you are listening
• 2:00:21
  to us elsewhere and you have a Twitter account. I keep, I keep
• 2:00:26
  forgetting to call it X, but I haven't respected the new pronouns. Sorry,
• 2:00:33
  but it still says Twitter in the U r L. So that's my
• 2:00:40
  that's my excuse. That's fair game. Very yes. And with that activity,
• 2:00:47
  because they are literal, they are talking point machines. They are possible
• 2:00:54
  to deal with, especially if you have like especially if you have like a
• 2:00:57
  couple of dudes who have good memory. On top of that too, holy
• 2:01:00
  shit, you're fucked.