Latest / The Ben and Ashley I Almost Famous Podcast / Almost Famous In Depth: Ben Flajnik & Jake Pavelka

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Almost Famous In Depth: Ben Flajnik & Jake Pavelka · The Ben and Ashley I Almost Famous Podcast

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: This is Ben and Ashley I Almost Famous in Depth.
• 0:05
  Speaker 1: This is actually my favorite time. In depth podcasts are
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: just like I feel like it actually where it's a
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: time where like kick my shoes off, I put my
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: feet up, I take a deep breath, and we just
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: sit down to see where these conversations go. And it's
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: time for another in depth in the Almost Famous podcast. Yeah,
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: so this podcast will be two in depth interviews. Um. First,
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: we're gonna start off with Ben flannic Um. He was
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: the one who ended up with Courtney Robertson in Bachelor's
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: Season sixteen. And then we'll be talking to Jake peal Vacca,
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: who ended up with Vienna in his season, which was
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: that season nine anyway, Um, both guys ended up with
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: the villains of the season. I don't think either of
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: these girls are villains in real life, but that's what
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: they were portrayed as. And um, let's get that conversation
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: started with Ben f the Ben that came before Mr Higgins.
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: Ben was a contestant on the seventh season of The Bachelorette,
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: where he proposed but unfortunately was said no to by Ashley.
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna say this wrong, I Conettie is Ashley Hebert. Nope,
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: Hubert Hubert, I knew it. He was later chosen as
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: the bachelor on the sixteenth season of The Bachelor, where
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: he proposed to Courtney Robertson. Well and less than one
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: year later, uh, that relationship ended. Ben is from Sonoma, California,
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: and as a winemaker, he's the founder of Iron Wines,
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: which is a wine making company that specializes in well,
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna ask him how you say this, but but
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: he's on now, Ben, what kind of wine do you
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: specialize in? What is this province? Call a provincial? Yeah,
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: it's a It's a region in France. Okay, welcome to
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: the almost from this podcast. We're pumped to sit down
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: with you. They this is how the all in depths work.
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: We really have no agenda for this. We just want
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: to sit down and catch up on where you're at
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: in life, where you've been in life, and maybe where
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: you're going as well. And we just Ashley and I
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: want to start this by saying thank you for taking
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: the time to sit down with us. Yeah, totally, man.
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: You know it's COVID, so I've got plenty of time,
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: don't we. All? Where are you recording right now. I'm
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: actually in Odessa, Texas, at um my best friend's house.
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: He was actually another contestant on The Bachelor, very close
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: touch over the last decade, Lucas Daniels, so I know
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: I would know his face. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: you met on The Bachelor at you stayed friends, and
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: then you guys are like just hanging out together during COVID.
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: We're buds. Yeah. I've actually been out here a couple
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: of times during COVID. It's you know, there's not a
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: whole lot going on in West Texas, so it's it's
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: nice to be able to know. The comforts of Texas
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: are are nice. It's got the old office, and I like,
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: I like the people out of here. Yeah, definitely the uh.
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: I know this time has been crazy for all of us,
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: But you spend most of your time still in Sonoma,
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: correct I do, Yeah, that's that's home. Um. I actually
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: I lived in San Francisco for the last fourteen years
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: and um just just left like six weeks ago for good.
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: City has changed a lot, and I'm kind of on
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: this like eat, pray, love three to six month journey.
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: That's why I'm here and all eventually back in Sonoma.
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: But the only time will tell. So you don't have
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: a permanent residence right now, I don't have a permanent residence.
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: Look at that. It's cool. Time to catch you for
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: an I was gonna say, this is the perfect like
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: the perfect season just to sit back and process life together.
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: It feels really good, Like I've never been this happy.
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: It's nice not having you know, brick and mortar and
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: all all this stuff. I put it all in storage
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: and you know wherever I end up at all that's
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: that's where all go. So what inspired you to be
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: such a vagabond? Um? I just figured like rolling with
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: the chaos was the right move. Um, with so much
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: uncertainty and everything that's going on in the world, I
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: just figured I'd just I'd take my golf clubs and
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: uh one of my cars and kind of hit the road.
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: And I'm discovering a whole lot more about myself and
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: and the people that I surround myself with, and you
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: know where I'm at professionally and what I want to do.
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: So it's it's been a really really positive move. What
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: are some of the I mean, this is not where
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: we're playing on starting, but I think It's a beautiful
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: way to start, UM, because I mean, honestly, these in
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: depths are just to get to know you better. What
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: were some of the things that led up to the
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: decision to finally make this happen? I mean, I know
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: even last night. I'm gonna give you a little context
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: in my life now. Last night I had a bunch
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: of guys over to my house and reading a book
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: by John Eldridge called Get Your Life Back. And the
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: whole concept of the book is to eliminate the unnecessary
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: distractions so that you can pull back who you are,
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: who your childlike soul is, you know, how you can
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: bring joy back into life so you're not on the go.
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: And and it was interesting to sit around with eight
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: guys or four guys I guess last night and two
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: guys on virtually and talk about how many of us
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: have this desire to get something back that we don't
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: even know what it is and it and it feels
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: like if we were to have a little courage, we
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: would maybe take the step that you just took to
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: rediscover and to get away. So I'm really intrigued what
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: it is that made you say yes to this? UM? Honestly,
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: you know, I just just say San Francisco, and it
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: was a beautiful place and a wonderful city. It had
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: changed a lot, and I just it had changed so
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: much from the city that I originally loved, and I
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: think I think it was just kind of time to
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: to get away from from that geographic location. UM. And
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: then secondly, like professionally, UM, I closed a couple of
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: my my own companies, and I was just like, man,
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: maybe I should just like go and search and talk
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: to different people and be around like people I trust
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: and love the most and kind of see where I belong.
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: I think that's kind of the purpose of this, this
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: whole journey. UM. And so far, you know, I've been
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: able to like put some check marks on some things
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: and and feel inspired. UM. But my entrepreneurial spirit is back.
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: It was just like, UM, creating creating space for myself
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: physically and mentally has been really really helpful. And I
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: find myself, um, being more introspective and I'm reading more
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: like you've been just like with and again, like there's
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: so much craziness going on in the news and all
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: this stuff, and I try not to try not to
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: bother with any of it, and like find what's important
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: to me, and then I feel like at the end
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: of this journey, I'll I'll be somewhere that um, I
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: should be hopefully for you know, the duration of my
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: life or or at least a long time. So does
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: this mean that ben f is no longer a winemaker. No,
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: I still have a winery. Um yeah, I still and
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: I still have, you know, a number of my my
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: own projects and things like that. But um, there's you know,
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: I like probably the two of you are are entrepreneurs
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: and like exploring new different things, and so I feel
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: like just being stagnant in one place in my house
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: in San Francisco, I wasn't getting those those creative juices flowing,
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: and so I'm I'm finding it on the road. That's interesting.
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: I just told Jared Um we were outlying on the
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: beach in Newport, Rhode Island. That was like, I feel
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: like I get most creative and most in business mode
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: when I'm somewhere relaxing. It's it's very inspiring and you
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: just have to get out of like the location. Really yeah,
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: it's um, it's really important to kind of get out
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: of your your comfort zone. I think again, like surrounding
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: yourself with the right people I think is also really important. UM.
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: And I'm one of them, like, you know, a little
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: bit of a vagabond, like I like living in nice
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: hotels and like staying with friends when I can, um,
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: And so I'm very lucky. And then I you know,
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: we'll work you know, X amount of hours a day
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: and then try to be creative for for the rest
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: of the time. And things seem to be shaping up nicely.
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: Then this is awesome to uh, to hear it's it's
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: I'm excited for you. I think a lot of people
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: out there right now, especially during the season where there
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: is a lot of changes, um, and most people's lives,
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: I think they're gonna hear this in in at some
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: level relate, which is ideal for an in depth Ben.
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: Let's take a break here, and when we come back,
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: we're gonna start back at your childhood, uh and work
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: our way all the way up to when you're the
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: bachelor and now kind of digging in a little bit
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: further to where you're at in life today. So it
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: will take a break. We have been f who was
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: the bachelor on the in Depth podcast, so Ben, we
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: covered that you grew up in Sonoma, California. What was
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: your childhood like, let's talk about like your nuclear family. Yes, Sonoma,
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: you know, Sonoma's the best, Um it was. It was
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: nice that the little my little town was featured on
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: on both the shows that I was on, because it's
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: such a such a beautiful little community. It's the perfect
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: word for it. Everybody kind of knows each other, you know,
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: there's ten twelve thousand people that lived there. Wine culture. Um. My,
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: my parents were very dedicated to their their children, and
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: my mom still is um and so my upbringing was
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: very you know, suburban, but with a with a European twist.
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: You know, Synoma's very European in a sense. Um, it
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: was a really it was a really lovely childhood, really was. Now,
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: your family wasn't in winemaking from the beginning, right, No,
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: they weren't. My mom was a teacher, my dad worked
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: in like the medical field, and the wine stuff is
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: just like I feel like, if you are born and
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: raised in an area where it's it's around, you kind
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: of catch the bug. There was always wine on the table,
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: you know. My my dad was from originally like Eastern Europe,
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: and so you know there was I was probably had
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: my first class of wine when I was six or
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: at least like six, and it wasn't it wasn't a
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: big deal. Um. And the people that are in the
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: industry are like super supportive, especially being from a really
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: small town. UM. And so I learned a lot of
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: have really great mentors along the way. UM. People that
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: taught me taught me a ton and I'm still very
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: very close to those people today. And you have one sister,
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: one sister, Yeah, she's living in Marin she's just had
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: we have like our first of the next gen, UM, Josephine.
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: She's two and a half years old. She's really sweet.
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: She's that's like the main reason I cried when I
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: left for this little little journey. My sister still gives
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: me about about leaving, but um, she's kind of the
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: apple of everyone's eye and and has really made our
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: our family dynamic, super strong. My sister married one of
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: my best friends and he's a scratch golfer and he's
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: the best. So it's like we've got a good we've
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: got a good thing going on in northern California. And
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: you know, despite this like crazy journey that I'm you know,
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: ultimately I will probably end up back in the Bay
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: Area at some point. Um. You know, I'm just like,
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: you know, I'm still single and so like I buy
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: a house, so, you know, just a lot of things
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: going on. You know. If this was I've learned my lesson.
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: But when Harrison comes on this podcast, uh, we end
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: up talking golf for like five to ten minutes every time,
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: and our listeners, I don't think love it. So if
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: if this was any other podcast, I would love to
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: dig into the golf game a little bit. But for
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: the sake of and it's everything inside of me just
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: wants to talk to you about it. But for the
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: sake of this show, we're gonna we're not gonna get
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: into it. Um. So, Ben, you just mentioned it. But
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: you know, Sonoma has this this this wine culture around it.
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: You enter into the business, just can you give all
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: of us a perspective of how big your vineyard is
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: and um and and how much of your life that
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: takes up now? Yeah, so it used to be a
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: whole lot more so I used to I started a
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: winery back in two thousand and eight with a childhood buddy.
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: We we built that brand up for a few years
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: and then you know, cut to Bachelorette and Bachelor and
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: we sold you know, exponentially more cases. That wasn't the
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: reason for me going on the show, but it was
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: obviously a very nice benefit. Um. So we were able
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: to to sell those brands to a larger company. I
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: was like, I'm done. I'm out to no more winemaking
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: because it's a really, really difficult business. Although it's really fun,
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: it's it's it's quite challenging to to make a buck um.
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: So we were lucky. I started making for Net and
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: then I started a new line of wines about five
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: years ago when my buddy called me, He's like, I've
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: got some extra grenoche ling around. My ex girlfriend at
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: the time was a big fan of Rose, so I
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: was like, screw it. I'll just make some Rose for fun.
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: And now I'm like back into the wine business, which
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: I don't really you know, I love it, but like
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: I didn't plan on being back into it again, and
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: so I I focus primarily on on rose. Um. I
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: don't own any vineyards at this time. I just like
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: contract all my fruit. I bring it in, I crushed it,
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: we make it and it's ready in five six months
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: and it's you know, it's it's good stuff and it's
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: delicious and rose's appropriate for this time of year or
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: anytime year really. But what I love about the the
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: category is that people are always down to drink more
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: than one bottle, which makes makes it a fun time.
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: So you definitely didn't plan when you went to college
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: and graduated with a bachelor's degree in music production to
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: do wine. What were you thinking about doing initially? Well,
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: funny enough, like I was, I wasn't brewing in college.
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: So my my job. I went to University of Arizona.
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: I was the assistant brewmaster at this brewery UM during college,
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: which was the best job ever. So I I loved like,
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: I loved fermentation. I love being able to, you know,
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: take these things and then create this, this tangible product
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: that people would be like, well made this, This is amazing.
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: And I loved that that a list of response from people,
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: um when you when you handed him that that gift.
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: That thing was before I was even like selling stuff, right,
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: and that made me feel really because someone else, Scott,
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: they found value in it. That was the important part.
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: Now let's flash forward then, because at some point during
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: this the Bachelor at calls and uh yeah, I mean
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: I remember your season because you had you did it
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: and many do. But you had a lot going on
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: outside of being on the Bachelor at and being the Bachelor.
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: But it obviously, as you just mentioned it, it affects
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: all of our lives so much. I mean, you know,
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: changes a ton. How did the process work leading up
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: to getting on the show. My sister signed me up
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: and um so I had another company at the time,
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: I was doing UM digital marketing. I've always been kind
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: of in tech and out in and out of out
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: of that. But myself and the producers decided to pick
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: Winemaking as my my title because it's more romantic, but
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: it takes it takes fun wine, you know. So we
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: we we laid off that and so I remember being
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: in in my office in UM in San Diego and
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: it was kind of a joke, but I just kept
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: kind of going through the casting process and one day
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: they called me like, we'd love you to come on
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: the Bachelorette. And I remember being on the phone and
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: like opened up my office store and be like, hey, Brad,
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: I made it and should I do it? And he goes, yeah, bro,
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: do it like that was really it. And I'm sure
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: I don't know what you're I don't know what your
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: casting experience was like, but like we had to there
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: was some in person stuff, but we had to make
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: d d ds, remember DVDs. We had to film it
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: and like put it down and like send it in
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: the mail. I did that too. I think I was
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: probably like the last cycle to have to set Yeah. Yeah,
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: US would probably be the last cycle that sent it
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: in like with a physical disk. Yeah, and uh then
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: it was kind of was off to the races. Um.
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: I loved. I loved my time on The Bachelorette. I
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: loved it. It felt like it felt like a great
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: vacation to me. Unfortunately, like I had a lot of
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: there were a lot of good dudes on the show,
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: as I'm sure both of you made lots of friends
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: from the franchise. UM, and so I hold those those
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: relationships very near and dear to my heart. Obviously, sitting
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: in West Texas, my buddy's always like, you really want
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: to come out to Odessa. Huh um. But but you know,
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: in comparison to like being you know the guy, um,
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: which I still consider to be like my my hardest
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: project yet. It was so so difficult, and then you know,
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: well we're going to get into that. But I want
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: to know what kind of relationships you were in before
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: you you said yes to the Bachelor. How many serious ones,
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: anything that was like truly life altering. Um. Yeah, I
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: had my are broken in high school. Uh, there was
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: this girl who like didn't we were very close friends.
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: She didn't pay your close friends, but like she ended
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: up like dating this other dude and I was just
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: totally crushed. Um. And then college the same thing. I
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: had this this girl that I loved and she broke
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: up with me because I was, you know, graduating, and
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: she's like, I just want to enjoy my last year.
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: And then she started dating this dude like two months
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: later and I was like no. Um. And then after
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: after that, I was like single for a while. I
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: did the single thing for a long time. Um, you know,
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: a bunch of three month things in there. My longest
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: relationship was after the Bachelor. I was in a relationship
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: for about four years. Would be the same girl. Um.
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: But but yeah, it's not not that I'm like opposed
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: to being in a relationship by any means. I like it,
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: But um, my life is you've got to be like agile,
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: um and flexible because I'm I like being here, there
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: and everywhere. Um. How how old were you when you
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: got on the bachelort Um. I think I was twenty
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: twenty eight, Yeah, something like that. Yeah, I think I
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: remember that too. All right, so let's let's start out
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: with the Bachelorette. I mean, what was your experience on
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: that first night? First night? You know, it's funny I I, um,
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: I remember, well, you look back on it now and
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: like the fashion is so different, right, It's like, man,
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: why did you wear that soup? I keep telling Ben
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: this watching to go to episodes, I'm like, my biggest
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: takeaway from this episode was the fashion is horrendous. Everything
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: looks so cheap, so gaudy. It's incredible. And like, I
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: remember the stute that I wore. I got in Paris
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: at like Hugo Boss and it was like tailored to
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: me and I thought it looked great. Then I like
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: I went back and watched it and I was like,
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: that's kind of an ill fitted suit. Um, But the
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: first night was was nerve racking. I actually ended up
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: like I had a lot of anxiety through the Bachelorette
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: I was not really used to, um, the environment, being
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: told what to do UM a lot of the time,
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: at least, not having like the freedoms. I shouldn't say
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: like being told what to do because they don't they
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: don't really do. But it's it's the freedoms that that
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: I am really really missed. UM. So, like you know,
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: I found I found solace in in UM my buddy
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: Lucas and my buddy Constantine along the way and we
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: got to we got to travel with some really really
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: awesome places. UM. It was. It was really fun. They
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: put you up in beautiful hotels. I love nice hotels,
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: like I mentioned before, UM and Ashley. I was intrigued
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: with Ashley earlier on Actually I liked her UM and
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: I liked it she paid attention to me at like
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: at like an earlier stage. So I felt like, maybe,
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: you know, maybe there's a shot here. UM. So that
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: made me feel pretty good. Did you ever imagine being
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: final too on that one? On that first not a
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: million years? And it's funny I talked to, you know,
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: some of the producers that I that I had, Ellen
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: and Peter, UM, just the best of the best, you know,
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: the best of the best I love those guys. Um
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: and uh they they I think they said like they
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: didn't they didn't expect me to make it through the
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: first night and let alone. Yeah, why would they say that.
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: I don't know. I mean, like, you know, there's a
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: certain caliber of person that gets or at least on
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: my season, that was like put on the show and
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: they're like, no, this guy has no chance, and so
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: um yeah, like you know, I still remember making it
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: to the end and really being like floored at what happened,
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: because that was It's it's interesting to watch back and now,
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: like I I will laugh every time, like I see
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: a clip or something, but like at the time, it
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: was just it was so embarrassing. It was so so bad.
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: If it makes you feel any better. Nick Val was
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: also predicted by the bat by the producers not to
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: go very far. All right. You know that's interesting because
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: I remember this now that you're talking. Alan, Actually, during
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: my time on The Bachelor had compared me to you
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: and so there our initial response to like being in
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: that like environment was very similar. So like not scared
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: of it yet anxious. Um was not reserved like we
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: put walls up, but more like I got really tired
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: because I was constantly like in my head, nervous, anxious,
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: unable to process the environment around me quick enough to
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: like stay in tune with it. But over time, for
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: whatever reason, somehow, you know, it gets more comfortable, but
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: it never feels like it never feels normal. It never
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: feels like some really embrace it and can just like
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: really step into it. And And I remember Alan looking at
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: me and saying, you're handling this very similar to the
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: bend before you interesting, Well, do you know, I think
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: that's a testier character. Ben Higgins nice, just a nice
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: guy buddy. And then there's there's they cast for you know,
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: all different reasons, but um, you know like that, I
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: feel like the nice, normal people with with stuff going
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: on at home probably process it very differently than those
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: that are you know, they're looking for Instagram followers or
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: something like that. That's that's my guess. Anyway, Yeah, it was.
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: It's a weird season, and for you, it led up
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: to um a final proposal. You know, at the very
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: end of of your time on the Bachelort, you did
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: get down on one knee. Uh. Looking back now, you
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: know everybody has very similar questions. Did you mean it
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: do you regret it, were you sad? I'm gonna ask
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: those same questions, Um, But what do you remember about
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: that moment? You know, I remember being like very confident
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: in my decision. UM. I remember, um thinking that this
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: was it and I was really excited about it. I
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: do I still do to day, do not regret doing that.
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: It felt right in the time. And I don't know
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: if it's because of like the bubble that you're in
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: or whatever it is. But UM, it's weird because when
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: she said and she said said to effectively no, UM,
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: I was really quite angry. UM. I remember this. I
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: was quite angry because I felt like I felt like
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: I had been like almost tricked a little bit. Um.
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: And I don't I don't blame you know, the production
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: by any means, but you know, it was it was
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: part of it was just the whole thing. I just
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: felt tricked and I was mad and I was like,
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: this doesn't make any sense, and there was and like
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: in that moment, what did I say? I said something
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: like the most poignant thing that like I could ever
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: have come up with. Good things don't end unless stand badly.
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: And I watched that like a number of years ago
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: and I was like, good for you, buddy, like that,
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: that's brilliant. You said that, just like atn't out of nowhere,
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: you just go bam. Good things don't end unless they
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: end badly. Yeah, while I'm like piste off and unsure
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: of like everything. Um but again, like I don't regret it,
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: but I do remember when they put me on that
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: little tin boat and sent me out to see Remember,
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: I remember feeling it was brutal. I remember feeling, um
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: like a little bit of sense of relief, honestly, um
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: where like maybe this was maybe this was the end.
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: Granted it was embarrassing, but you know, at least I
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: at least I I went out honest to myself and
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: I meant what I did, and so um, it was
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: an accomplishment, I suppose. M. Yeah, you're the only final
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: two that had like a weird I'm sorry this is
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: the wrong word because it is, but like pathetic leaving
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: experience where they put you on a boat like they
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: wouldn't I think that fans wouldn't like that today. They
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: wouldn't be okay with that, Like it's already a very
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: embarrassing moment to get on your knee. Then you're gonna
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: go put him in a little a little tin boat
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: with like the sea had swells, and Allen was in
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: the front of the boat and I'm just there and
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: you know, and my hair looks probably terrible. I don't
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: know what was going on in my hair, but I
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: apologize to everyone in advance for it just wouldn't let
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: me work. Your hair looks great now. It looks so
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: good right now. If I just let me wet, it
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: would have been a lot better. Um, but you know
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: it was. It was just terrible styling all around. There's
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: this great meme that my Boddy's still send me, like,
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: you know, every year on my birthday and it's like
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: me and cartoon Francine from art Francine. I'm just going
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: to bring this up. Is that it's just perfect. Is
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: that it's perfect? Okay, great? Hard anyway, it's Francine from Arthur. Guys,
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: definitely google it. If Ben is okay with this totally,
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: There's plenty of memes out there. It's it's it's hilarious. Still,
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: I still it's hey, you've made it once. You have
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: a mean, totally a very viral meme. But then, uh,
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: before we we take one more break, and we we
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: didn enter into your time as the bachelor. UM on
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: the boat. Were you heartbroken? Did you expect what was
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: to come? Uh? No, I did. I didn't expect what
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: was to come. I think I was just stunned in
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: that moment. I remember being on the airplane going going
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: home and I cried. I do I do remember that. Um.
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: So there there there was real raw emotion. And then
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: after like that big kind of exhale and all those tears. Um.
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: I did feel some relief. Um Um. I didn't get
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: a whole lot of closure around all of it, but
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: like you know, it all worked out as well as
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: it got. How long do you think the heartbreak lasted for?
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: And would you consider one of your great heartbreaks along
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: with the other two? Um no, I you know, honestly,
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: like I wouldn't put it up with the other two.
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: It was. It was different because because of the environment
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: and everything that was going on. UM, you know, it
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: was definitely it was definitely heartbreak. It was difficult, but
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: it wasn't like that young puppy love that you you
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: know that you experience. I was definitely more weathered in
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: the department of rejection in relationships by that point. Were
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: you friends with JP? Yeah, and still am. JP's a
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: great dude. He's a good angler, and he's a big
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: fan of mollusks, so we share a love of oysters
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: and clams and all that good stuff. He's a good guy.
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: That's how I picked my friends. Hey, Ben, there is
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: still more to come. Your story is not even halfway
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: completed yet. We'll be back with Ben f on the
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: Almost Famous In Depth podcast. Okay, Ben, So let's talk
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: about when they first asked you to be the Bachelor.
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: How many months was it after you got done by Ashley?
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: Did you feel stoked or a little bit weary? Um?
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: Good question. It was. I remember where I was. I was.
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: I was at the winery, and it was like two weeks,
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: like two weeks later. Um, two weeks. It was really
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: really quick. Uh. And I told him I would, you know,
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: give him a few days. I was coming into harvest,
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: so I was gonna be busy making wine, um crystals.
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: Was also very concerned about it being harvest season. Oh yeah, yeah,
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: that's right, that's farmer boys. Um. And I was more
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: concerned with, like I suppose, like how my mom would
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: take it all, because she, you know, she had a
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: hard time with me being on television the first time,
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: and this was a very very different, different thing. UM.
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: But I think I deliberated for maybe forty eight hours,
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: and I was like this, I'm sure why not? Like
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: I had, I had a ton of fun on on
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: the Bachelorette, UM and I and I and I enjoyed
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: it immensely really despite the outcome. But so it was
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: it was pretty quick. What about it? Did your mom? Like?
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: What was she most hesitant on? I think just like
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: the um intrusion into family UM, and like our our story.
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: You know that my dad passed away when I was
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: twenty four, and so that was a big storyline. UM.
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: And I'm sure it was like hard for my mom
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: to relive as it was for all of us. UM.
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: But honestly, like I've said this a lot when I
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: was on the Bachelorette, you know, in speaking into that
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: that that camera and like telling your story and like
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: being super authentic, I I don't like healed big time
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: around my my dad's passing. I was able to like
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: talk through it. And you know, I watched those episodes
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: years ago and I see this like this kid kind
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: of like getting over it and and like coming to
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: terms with it and like talking through it, and it
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: was like it was super cathartic and and Allan was
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: a big part of that. He asked the right questions
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: and I'm thankful for that that period of my life.
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: H it is therapy for sure. Was that your first
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: experience of therapy in a very non traditional way? Yeah, yeah,
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: you have the nail on the head. It can't be
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: very therapeutic if you if you embrace it, um, and
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: you're willing to like you know, show your true colors.
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: I think that, I think you're spot on. I Uh,
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: We've we've had many guests now in depth podcasts and um,
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: one of the themes I think most would say if
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: if they get asked a question or just that it
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: comes up that their time on the show, good or bad,
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: you know, no matter how it went for them, that
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: no matter what, the time on the show was therapeutic
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: or there was growth within it. And it leads Ashley
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: and I we say it now quite often that we
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: have this theory that if you go on the show,
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: if you want it to be a grown experience. It
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: is one of the most forced environments to that I've
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: ever been in. That's allowed me to grow as much
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: as I did during that time. I would never be
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: the man I am today without the show. I a
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: great and I can tell you that even if Jared
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: wasn't part of the show, that I would in no
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: way be married right now because it really just shot
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: me into a growth spurt, especially when it came to
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: love relationship and racial relationships and vulnerability. Yeah, when you
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: ever like actually talking about that stuff that deep exactly
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: ever well awkward. I pay somebody to have me talk
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: to him about it these days. Um Um been a
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: question I always love to ask bachelor's when you're asked
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: me the Bachelor, It's exciting, it's fun, right, we just
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: said it like it's like why not? And then you
• 33:01
  Speaker 1: get there on night one, you get to the mansion
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: and you start meeting the people, you know, the founders
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: of the show and Chris Harrison, and you start getting prepped.
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: If you could flash back to that moment, what what
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: what did you feel like standing there knowing that within
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: an hour you're gonna be walking out a driveway as
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: the Bachelor. Man? Um, that was pretty it was pretty intense,
• 33:24
  Speaker 1: you know, And I'm I'm a pretty mellow dude. Um,
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: and I you know, obviously anxiety is is a is
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: a big part of it. Um when you're just I
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: think even like in the beginning of like kind of
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: clammed up a little bit. You're just it's it's so
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: wild and so big because on that night, there's more
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: people around than the rest of you know, the production,
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: if you will. So there's you know, those cranes and
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: cameras rolling around and all this stuff. And you're used
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: to being a contestant where it's it's micro. But but
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: now you're the guy. Now you're the lead. Now you
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: gotta carry this thing. Um. And it was really for me,
• 34:00
  Speaker 1: it was about, um, I guess showing some restraint um
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: in the beginning just uh it was shot. It was
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: my goals were like to show a little bit of
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: restraint until I felt comfortable, um, and also make all
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: of the women feel as humanly comfortable as possible. That's
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: that's the job of the main person. In my honest opinion.
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: That's awesome. It's a weird night. That's a weird night,
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: and it's a long night. It's such a long Yeah,
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: you go from zero to a hundred, and I think
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: that's you know, you go from being asked and being
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: decided to all of a sudden being in the environment
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: and then having like a fourteen hour day as the bachelor,
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: knowing that every second your your voice is being recorded,
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: even when you're falling asleep within conversations. So I get it.
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: And uh, and it's just always intriguing for me to
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: hear you know, people like you who step into that
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: and how you how you processed it. So who knows,
• 35:02
  Speaker 1: maybe a future bachelor's listening right now. Yeah, good luck,
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: that's cool. I mean, yeah, maybe Matt is listening. Maybe
• 35:12
  Speaker 1: some young boy out there who's like fifteen, and the
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: show is going to be around for the next fifty's.
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: It's a great show. It's a great production. Like, I
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: get it, I don't. I don't think the end. Let's
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: talk about Courtney. Um, did she get your first impression Rose?
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: Forgive me for not remembering that. No, my first impression
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: Rose went to a girl named Lindsay. Lindsay was your
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: own up. Um, Lundsy was my runner up. That's correct. Yeah,
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: when he rode in on a horse, and Lindsey was
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: great and and still is great. We'll chat every now
• 35:49
  Speaker 1: again from time to time. Courtney. Um, Courtney was Yeah.
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: I mean everyone was beautiful and she she walks. I
• 35:57
  Speaker 1: think she was the last one to come out of
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: the limo. Courtney was um and she exuded a different
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: kind of confidence she had, which I which I really liked. Um.
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: She she knew who she was in that moment and
• 36:12
  Speaker 1: had clearly had been around cameras, being a model and all.
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: So I was naturally drawn to that confidence. Now that
• 36:21
  Speaker 1: we're I mean, how many years are we eight, nine
• 36:24
  Speaker 1: years or moved? Is there a girl from your bunch
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: or a couple of girls that you look back and
• 36:30
  Speaker 1: maybe wonder what if or when you think about your
• 36:33
  Speaker 1: season they kind of like stand out to you besides
• 36:35
  Speaker 1: Lindsay and Courtney. Um, that's a really good question. There
• 36:40
  Speaker 1: was I think it was the number the third girl,
• 36:43
  Speaker 1: Nikki from Texas, Nicky Sterling. I believe her name is
• 36:48
  Speaker 1: um and she she like disappeared from like the face
• 36:52
  Speaker 1: of the earth. And I've like, not that I'm like
• 36:55
  Speaker 1: in search of Nikki Sterling, but I always wanted to
• 36:58
  Speaker 1: reach out to her and be like, like thank you
• 37:00
  Speaker 1: for being so sweet and so nice. I just always
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: wanted to, you know, let her know how much like
• 37:05
  Speaker 1: I appreciated her being around. Um, but as far as
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: being in a ship with with anyone else, um, that's
• 37:14
  Speaker 1: too tough to say. Because I was you know, I
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: was very much um you know, Courtney was was my
• 37:20
  Speaker 1: pick and I was very much okay with that. Well,
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: Nicky Sterling, if you're listening, reach out to Ben and
• 37:29
  Speaker 1: maybe we'd have another Peter and Kelly situation on our heads. Sorry,
• 37:35
  Speaker 1: I'm just trying to match me. Uh, Ben, I wanted
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: to dig in a little bit to the Courtney relationship
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: if you don't mind um it. Obviously, you know, there
• 37:46
  Speaker 1: were storylines that came out during the show. Uh. You know,
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: we have our iconic benef moments that still flash up
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: on screens during you know, Bachelor recaps and especially now
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: the Goat is airing. But one of the things that
• 37:59
  Speaker 1: you nquecas we were kind of prepping for this is
• 38:01
  Speaker 1: your your relationship with Courtney was unique within the Bachelor
• 38:05
  Speaker 1: franchise because you were together, you then broke up, but
• 38:08
  Speaker 1: then you got back together again, showing that there was
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: like a pull towards each other in that season of
• 38:15
  Speaker 1: your life. What was going on, you know, it was
• 38:19
  Speaker 1: it was it was really hard to kind of stand
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: by Courtney and at that time, because when the show
• 38:26
  Speaker 1: was airing, it was just it was just mad madness.
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: Like obviously it wasn't shown in like a great light
• 38:35
  Speaker 1: for her, and I was like, who is this person?
• 38:37
  Speaker 1: And I was really confused. So we, um, we called
• 38:41
  Speaker 1: it off like while the show was airing, and um,
• 38:44
  Speaker 1: we started chatting again. You know, I think I think
• 38:47
  Speaker 1: they're like, let's just take a break kind of thing. Um.
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: I don't even remember if we broke up a break,
• 38:52
  Speaker 1: but we we definitely weren't together, and we started to
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: kind of like rekindle and chat again before taping me
• 38:59
  Speaker 1: after the in a Rose and things were things were
• 39:03
  Speaker 1: pretty good for a while. Actually, um, you know after
• 39:06
  Speaker 1: that moment after we reconciled because we had gone through
• 39:09
  Speaker 1: this this crazy experience together and you know, there was
• 39:12
  Speaker 1: there was love there for sure. Um. But and ultimately
• 39:18
  Speaker 1: the end it kind of ran its course. I personally
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: never thought that Courtney was nearly as a villainous as
• 39:26
  Speaker 1: they put her across, even when I was just a
• 39:28
  Speaker 1: fan watching, I was like, I think this is a
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: girl who is being silly and sarcastic, and she was
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: just having fun in the interview room, and she didn't
• 39:36
  Speaker 1: really meet any harm. She was just like trying to
• 39:39
  Speaker 1: be entertaining and do you do you feel like that
• 39:42
  Speaker 1: is what the case was. But she gave them such
• 39:45
  Speaker 1: good content to make it look evil with like music
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: and all that stuff. I totally agree with you. It's
• 39:51
  Speaker 1: funny because you know, when your producers reached out to
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: me for this thing, like, I haven't watched my season
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: and its entirety ever, but I was. And we in
• 40:01
  Speaker 1: San Diego with with a buddy and he's like, let's
• 40:03
  Speaker 1: let's watch it. We watched the first four episodes and
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: I found myself just laughing at Courtney, and I'm like,
• 40:09
  Speaker 1: good for you, girl, Like go go for it, you know.
• 40:12
  Speaker 1: Um yeah, yeah, as you know, watching those, I'm like,
• 40:15
  Speaker 1: all right, I get it. And and she she is
• 40:17
  Speaker 1: quite funny and she's and she's quite nice and quite lovely. Um,
• 40:21
  Speaker 1: but she she got just she kind of got a
• 40:22
  Speaker 1: raw deal when the that that time in your relationship
• 40:28
  Speaker 1: that you know, the show and the fans were reacting
• 40:31
  Speaker 1: natively to Courtney and you were by her side as
• 40:34
  Speaker 1: her fiance at the time and trying to make a
• 40:35
  Speaker 1: relationship work. How difficult was it to stand by her.
• 40:39
  Speaker 1: So I mean, obviously it ended it, but was it
• 40:43
  Speaker 1: just it was it tearing you up to and why
• 40:46
  Speaker 1: did it ultimately decide to to say goodbye for a bit? Yeah,
• 40:50
  Speaker 1: you know it was It was hard for me because
• 40:54
  Speaker 1: I felt like I always had had like a good
• 40:57
  Speaker 1: vibe and people you know, respected respected me, and so
• 41:00
  Speaker 1: you know, standing by this this villain was was really
• 41:02
  Speaker 1: hard for me. And you know, you know, all honesty,
• 41:06
  Speaker 1: I probably just kind of chickened out a little bit.
• 41:08
  Speaker 1: I was like, I just I can't. I can't deal
• 41:11
  Speaker 1: with this. I'm not I'm not used to this. Um.
• 41:13
  Speaker 1: And I was on I was on the road a lot.
• 41:15
  Speaker 1: I was like doing a ton of you know, appearances
• 41:18
  Speaker 1: and like bottle signings for my wines all over the
• 41:20
  Speaker 1: country and so like people were constantly coming up to
• 41:23
  Speaker 1: me and I'm you know, asking me to sign these
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: like US Weekly magazines that were like just not nice,
• 41:30
  Speaker 1: and I was like, this is brutal, man, Like, that's
• 41:32
  Speaker 1: kind of why I disappeared from the whole franchise. I
• 41:34
  Speaker 1: was like, I don't, I don't know if I can
• 41:37
  Speaker 1: handle the negativity. Um. And sometimes I think about that
• 41:41
  Speaker 1: if that was a mistake or not, because there are
• 41:42
  Speaker 1: a lot of you know, really really nice people that
• 41:45
  Speaker 1: have come out of this franchise. Um, I'm just you know,
• 41:48
  Speaker 1: one of the old old souls. Can you can you
• 41:52
  Speaker 1: speak about your confusion? Like you're with the girl who
• 41:55
  Speaker 1: seems super lovely and that you you love, and then
• 41:58
  Speaker 1: on the TV she's coming across totally different. How did
• 42:01
  Speaker 1: you figure out which one was the real her? Yeah?
• 42:04
  Speaker 1: That that was hard too. I think I think for me,
• 42:06
  Speaker 1: I was frustrated because I was like, like, how could
• 42:08
  Speaker 1: you be so stupid? Like this is a TV show?
• 42:10
  Speaker 1: Like how don't you watched this before? Like why wouldn't
• 42:13
  Speaker 1: you have acted differently? That kind of thing. So for me,
• 42:15
  Speaker 1: I think it was more like a disappointment. Um, that's
• 42:18
  Speaker 1: what it was. How was she handling it in? Um? Not? Well?
• 42:23
  Speaker 1: It was rough on her, man, she got she got
• 42:26
  Speaker 1: um heat from everywhere. It was And you know, for
• 42:30
  Speaker 1: for me to be who I've been in a relationship
• 42:33
  Speaker 1: with that person, you know, I'm sure she expected me
• 42:35
  Speaker 1: to you know, stand by her side, and I didn't. Um,
• 42:38
  Speaker 1: And so that's you know, that's how me. I remember
• 42:42
  Speaker 1: being in the interview room a couple of times myself
• 42:45
  Speaker 1: and just being in a sassy mood and thinking I'm
• 42:47
  Speaker 1: gonna I'm channeling Courtney. I'm gonna like eat this freaking rose.
• 42:51
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna twirl it around and be super obnoxious and
• 42:55
  Speaker 1: say obnoxious things. And it never was a good idea.
• 43:01
  Speaker 1: All right, yeah are you? Are you guys communicated all today?
• 43:06
  Speaker 1: I mean there's some big updates in Courtney's life. Do
• 43:09
  Speaker 1: you guys keep in touch? Yeah? We you know, she
• 43:11
  Speaker 1: she wrote this book a number of years ago, and
• 43:14
  Speaker 1: like we didn't speak for five plus years after that
• 43:17
  Speaker 1: thing because there was you know, that's one story and
• 43:20
  Speaker 1: it's pretty not cool. Um, we reconciled a few years
• 43:26
  Speaker 1: ago and um we actually ended up um meeting up
• 43:31
  Speaker 1: over New Year's for a few days in Santa Barbara
• 43:34
  Speaker 1: just to see if, like, hey, is there, like you know,
• 43:37
  Speaker 1: we went through this thing together, is like, is there
• 43:39
  Speaker 1: anything there now that we've like buried the patchet? And
• 43:43
  Speaker 1: I think we both decided that, like, you know, there wasn't,
• 43:46
  Speaker 1: but there's there's still mutual respect. I'm I congratulated her
• 43:50
  Speaker 1: on her baby. She still talks to my sister a lot,
• 43:52
  Speaker 1: and they're still very close. So there's you know there's
• 43:55
  Speaker 1: no ill will or hard feelings. I'm really happy for
• 43:57
  Speaker 1: her and and her new baby and and um fiance
• 44:01
  Speaker 1: whatever he is. Um. Her book is probably the most
• 44:05
  Speaker 1: delicious bachelor book there is. I talk about how it
• 44:08
  Speaker 1: helps me with casting a lot because she goes into
• 44:11
  Speaker 1: the nitty gritty there. What was it about the book
• 44:14
  Speaker 1: that really irked you? So? I never read it, but
• 44:17
  Speaker 1: I remember just hearing like bits and pieces. Um. The
• 44:20
  Speaker 1: part that irked me is that, like she talked about
• 44:23
  Speaker 1: my mom, which I didn't think it was very cool. Um.
• 44:27
  Speaker 1: Outside of that, you know, everything else was if you
• 44:31
  Speaker 1: most of the mom doesn't really matter. Yeah, that's pretty bad. Mom.
• 44:34
  Speaker 1: It's fine you can talk about me like I've been
• 44:37
  Speaker 1: in the public eye. Like I get it, But moms
• 44:40
  Speaker 1: are off limits. Man, mm hmmm, sure are the U.
• 44:45
  Speaker 1: I know our fans before we move on here, I
• 44:47
  Speaker 1: know every listening UH is going to freak out if
• 44:51
  Speaker 1: we don't if if if one of us isn't asked
• 44:53
  Speaker 1: this question. So one of the most iconic moments in
• 44:56
  Speaker 1: your season is the ocean scene where you skinny dipped
• 44:59
  Speaker 1: into the ocean. Um, how in the world? And so
• 45:03
  Speaker 1: this is because I've now done this. How in the
• 45:07
  Speaker 1: world as a man who is reserved like yourself, who
• 45:10
  Speaker 1: is a little anxious about this experience, how do you
• 45:12
  Speaker 1: get to a mindset We're like, screw it, I'm gonna
• 45:15
  Speaker 1: naked on national TV and I'm going to the ocean.
• 45:20
  Speaker 1: I mean, if you were on a beach in Puerto
• 45:22
  Speaker 1: Rico and some babe asked you to go skinny dipping,
• 45:23
  Speaker 1: wouldn't you do the same thing. That's kind of like
• 45:26
  Speaker 1: it's kind of a no brainer. Was that the thought process? Like, hey,
• 45:30
  Speaker 1: come on, yeah, I mean, go for it, man, Like
• 45:34
  Speaker 1: this is a once in a lifetime opportunity. Um, it's
• 45:38
  Speaker 1: funny that I forgot about the skinny to being a
• 45:40
  Speaker 1: portion of it. But I think there was like an
• 45:41
  Speaker 1: uncensored cut to you could like see our butts and
• 45:43
  Speaker 1: stuff way back. Question was it just a sexy time
• 45:49
  Speaker 1: or was it sexy time? I'll leave that up to
• 45:53
  Speaker 1: the imagination, but you know, you're it's a question for
• 45:56
  Speaker 1: a long time. Configure figure that one out. That's why
• 46:01
  Speaker 1: nobody's forgotten about it. Nobody's forgotten about that, but you
• 46:03
  Speaker 1: might have forgot about it. Nobody else has. That's good
• 46:07
  Speaker 1: to know after you, after you after you and Courtney
• 46:12
  Speaker 1: broke up, but Courtney found comfort in the arms of
• 46:15
  Speaker 1: another Bachelor Ari lion Dyke. Was that weird seeing her
• 46:19
  Speaker 1: date somebody else from the franchise? Quickly? Yeah? I was
• 46:22
  Speaker 1: that was That was tough because we were buds um
• 46:26
  Speaker 1: for for a moment there. Um, But they you know,
• 46:29
  Speaker 1: they lived in the same area and they were probably
• 46:32
  Speaker 1: probably had gone through similar experiences. You know, it's all
• 46:35
  Speaker 1: water under the bridge, But I do remember that being
• 46:38
  Speaker 1: being kind of difficult at the time. It would be yeah,
• 46:43
  Speaker 1: it would be, it would it would really hurt uh
• 46:46
  Speaker 1: to see that, especially within the franchise. Um, Ben. We
• 46:52
  Speaker 1: actually always has this fun game at the very end
• 46:54
  Speaker 1: of the podcast of these in depths where we just
• 46:56
  Speaker 1: rapid firely ask you questions. But before we getting the that,
• 46:59
  Speaker 1: we I, do you really want to hear where you're
• 47:01
  Speaker 1: at today? Uh? We we last saw you on The Bachelor.
• 47:05
  Speaker 1: We know you how that story ended. Are you dating now? Um?
• 47:09
  Speaker 1: Are you pursuing anybody? Uh? Yeah, you know, dating is
• 47:13
  Speaker 1: a little tough when you're doing an eat, pray love thing. Um. Yeah,
• 47:17
  Speaker 1: there's a you know, there's there's no one in particular
• 47:21
  Speaker 1: that that Um, I'm dating at the momentum again, like
• 47:25
  Speaker 1: I'm open to it, um, but you know, for now,
• 47:31
  Speaker 1: I think it's more about just kind of re centering
• 47:35
  Speaker 1: and finding my myself again and like figuring out a
• 47:38
  Speaker 1: good place for me to be in so that someone
• 47:41
  Speaker 1: can fit nicely into my life. Um. I think that's
• 47:45
  Speaker 1: probably probably the right answer there. But now, still single man,
• 47:49
  Speaker 1: just you know, still yeah, yeah, hey, it's it's a
• 47:55
  Speaker 1: it's a wild world and I'm sure life is going
• 47:57
  Speaker 1: to take you in a great direction here, especially with
• 47:59
  Speaker 1: the intention that you're putting to it. And last time
• 48:02
  Speaker 1: I saw a headline from benef which wasn't that long ago,
• 48:05
  Speaker 1: I feel is there there was a rumor being spread
• 48:08
  Speaker 1: that you were seeing Chris Jenner. Um. To be honest
• 48:15
  Speaker 1: about it, like I remember, there was just so much
• 48:17
  Speaker 1: rumor around it, but we never really got an answer.
• 48:20
  Speaker 1: I don't think anyone really got an answer. It's interesting
• 48:22
  Speaker 1: that the old Christian Jenner. It is. So I did
• 48:24
  Speaker 1: Chris talk show, um whatever you know, you're rafter or
• 48:29
  Speaker 1: whatever it was, and remember she was like, yeah, if
• 48:33
  Speaker 1: you're ever in the area, like let me know, um,
• 48:35
  Speaker 1: when we grabbed dinner or something like that, and I
• 48:37
  Speaker 1: was like great. So I took her phone number and
• 48:39
  Speaker 1: I ended up uh calling her or texting or something.
• 48:43
  Speaker 1: I was like, I'm in the area whatever the house,
• 48:45
  Speaker 1: like I met the whole family, met Kanye. Um, oh
• 48:50
  Speaker 1: my god. It was crazy. And I remember I remembered
• 48:53
  Speaker 1: in the afternoon and like they had the little baby.
• 48:55
  Speaker 1: North was just like in a little Bastoneta on the
• 48:57
  Speaker 1: you know, the island in there and everyone's hanging out,
• 49:00
  Speaker 1: like these people are really nice and it's great. Um.
• 49:03
  Speaker 1: Chris Jenner and I never never dated by any means.
• 49:05
  Speaker 1: I was working on a tech product that I thought
• 49:08
  Speaker 1: could be beneficial to like their brands and things like that.
• 49:11
  Speaker 1: So we had, you know, in a few business dinners.
• 49:16
  Speaker 1: My business partner was at, you know, half of them, Um.
• 49:19
  Speaker 1: But I have nothing but respect for that family and
• 49:23
  Speaker 1: like the amount of attention they have to go through
• 49:25
  Speaker 1: compared to what we do, and how they handle it,
• 49:28
  Speaker 1: and how nice they were to me for just you know,
• 49:31
  Speaker 1: intruding in their in their life for a few weeks.
• 49:34
  Speaker 1: Um was was really they were really lovely. I do
• 49:38
  Speaker 1: love the fact that when people who have actually had
• 49:41
  Speaker 1: like nice have had real encounters with the Kardashians, like
• 49:45
  Speaker 1: gone over to their house and stuff. They always say
• 49:46
  Speaker 1: that they were like so lovely and so warm and
• 49:48
  Speaker 1: down to earth, and I love hearing that because obviously
• 49:50
  Speaker 1: they're one of my favorite public families. Um, you may
• 49:54
  Speaker 1: have not dated Chris, but did you ever kiss her? No, Chris,
• 49:58
  Speaker 1: And that's fine. But you know, they asked a question. Okay,
• 50:03
  Speaker 1: I knew you were I knew you were thinking it.
• 50:05
  Speaker 1: Actually I knew in your head. You're like, I just
• 50:07
  Speaker 1: want to get as much information on the Kardashians right
• 50:09
  Speaker 1: now as possible, but I have to ask those questions,
• 50:12
  Speaker 1: especially since there was an episode of The Kardashians where
• 50:15
  Speaker 1: she went up to Ben's winery and she like hung
• 50:18
  Speaker 1: out for the weekend. Tell us about that experience. Came
• 50:21
  Speaker 1: up with Jonathan. They were up there for a Kanye concert,
• 50:25
  Speaker 1: so they came up and like filmed at my winery.
• 50:28
  Speaker 1: And I haven't thought about this in so long. This
• 50:31
  Speaker 1: is actually a really great story. And so after we
• 50:33
  Speaker 1: were shooting, You're like, do you want to come to
• 50:34
  Speaker 1: the Kanye show, which was in Pokland, And I was like, hell, yes,
• 50:37
  Speaker 1: I do, do see Kanye. And we had obviously, you know,
• 50:40
  Speaker 1: the best seats in the house and I'm backstage and
• 50:42
  Speaker 1: Kanye comes off and I met him, you know, a
• 50:45
  Speaker 1: couple of weeks prior, and he turns to me and
• 50:48
  Speaker 1: he goes, what do you think of the show? I
• 50:50
  Speaker 1: was like, what do you care? Like? Ye, it was great, man,
• 50:58
  Speaker 1: that's so cool. That was pretty cool knowing him as
• 51:03
  Speaker 1: little as you do, Like, is it sad to see
• 51:06
  Speaker 1: just the way that he's had this sort of like
• 51:09
  Speaker 1: you know, momentum publicly. Yeah, and you know, I don't
• 51:12
  Speaker 1: I don't know the whole the whole story or anything,
• 51:14
  Speaker 1: but at any time, like anyone's dealing with mental health
• 51:17
  Speaker 1: issues and stuff, it's not cool to not cool to
• 51:19
  Speaker 1: poke fun. Um, That's what I'm assuming is is probably
• 51:22
  Speaker 1: going on. Especially nice they all were to me. Um.
• 51:26
  Speaker 1: I hope that they managed to navigate the situation. According
• 51:31
  Speaker 1: Ben f the best critic that Kanye has ever asked for. Yeah,
• 51:38
  Speaker 1: that's so good man. Um, Ben, we really appreciate your
• 51:43
  Speaker 1: time with us. It's not quite time to say goodbody yet, though.
• 51:47
  Speaker 1: We're gonna take one last break and when we come back,
• 51:49
  Speaker 1: Ashley is going to do what she does. She has
• 51:52
  Speaker 1: a lot of things best and well, but this is
• 51:54
  Speaker 1: like one of my favorite moments of every end. We'll
• 51:58
  Speaker 1: be back with Ben f and Ashley uh Will will
• 52:01
  Speaker 1: host the Rapid Fire around Um during this in depth
• 52:05
  Speaker 1: almost famous podcast. We're back. I'm so excited for this
• 52:21
  Speaker 1: rapid Fire because I feel like you have given me
• 52:24
  Speaker 1: so much too um to work off of in this interview.
• 52:29
  Speaker 1: So it's gonna be very personal to you. Are you
• 52:31
  Speaker 1: ready in this eat prey love journey that you're on.
• 52:37
  Speaker 1: What are you eating that fills your soul? Pizza? Lots
• 52:41
  Speaker 1: of pizza, pizza because it's the best thing on the road. Pizza. Okay, amazing.
• 52:48
  Speaker 1: Is there a certain spot that people should go in
• 52:51
  Speaker 1: Texas or in San Francisco? I must um, my favorite
• 52:55
  Speaker 1: b area pizza is probably Pizza Hacker. It's in San Francisco,
• 53:00
  Speaker 1: d in Marin tho enough. I have to ask the
• 53:06
  Speaker 1: Kardashian that you would most like to take on a
• 53:09
  Speaker 1: date if she were single or in another lifetime. Um,
• 53:15
  Speaker 1: probably Kim because she was the nicest to me, She
• 53:18
  Speaker 1: was the most welcoming. Yeah, okay, cool, oh my Kim. Um.
• 53:23
  Speaker 1: You tweeted recently that you love Taylor Swift. You said,
• 53:28
  Speaker 1: quote Taylor Swift, You're the best. So what's your favorite
• 53:32
  Speaker 1: song on folklore? Um, boy, she's I've had a thing
• 53:38
  Speaker 1: for her even when she was doing that early country stuff.
• 53:41
  Speaker 1: The one probably my favorite. It's just she's just great,
• 53:45
  Speaker 1: the whole the whole album's great. Is that safe to say?
• 53:51
  Speaker 1: It's safe to say that Taylor Swift is your celebrity crush. Um? Yeah,
• 53:55
  Speaker 1: her and Kristen Wigg because Christen Wiggs hilarious and okay,
• 54:00
  Speaker 1: m that's a good duo. That would be a really
• 54:04
  Speaker 1: fun triple date. Right, let's go too on one with
• 54:11
  Speaker 1: christ and Wig and Taylor Swift. Wow, that would be amazing. Ok,
• 54:17
  Speaker 1: let me let me know if you can pull it
• 54:18
  Speaker 1: out one off please. You're single? So what is your
• 54:23
  Speaker 1: most like your must have quality in a lady? Um,
• 54:30
  Speaker 1: independence is probably numero uno. Um. I like, I like
• 54:34
  Speaker 1: a woman that I can like take to a you know,
• 54:37
  Speaker 1: galla or a party or something like that and you
• 54:40
  Speaker 1: can do their own thing for fifteen minutes to come
• 54:41
  Speaker 1: back and just like feel as comfortable as when I
• 54:44
  Speaker 1: left her. How do you date? Are you on the apps? Um?
• 54:49
  Speaker 1: I'm not on the apps? I UM. I've done a
• 54:54
  Speaker 1: little bit of like the Instagram sliding and d m
• 54:56
  Speaker 1: ng every once in a while. That seems to be
• 54:58
  Speaker 1: like a decent channel. Ben is a big fan of that.
• 55:05
  Speaker 1: I met my fiance on that. I just messenged her
• 55:07
  Speaker 1: and said, hey, I think you're pretty, and hey look
• 55:09
  Speaker 1: at us. Now that's all the thanks. Hey you're pretty. Okay,
• 55:17
  Speaker 1: you led into this question bachelor girl, who you'd most
• 55:23
  Speaker 1: like to have noticed in her d m oh gosh, Like, okay, bachelor,
• 55:32
  Speaker 1: you slide into your DA or that you wish would
• 55:36
  Speaker 1: show up in your inbox? There you go, it's probably
• 55:40
  Speaker 1: Jojo Fletcher. You guys, were you knew? You know Jojo right?
• 55:46
  Speaker 1: Like you had some like brotherly connection or something with
• 55:49
  Speaker 1: her brothers. I don't think so. No, okay, okay, it's
• 55:54
  Speaker 1: not me. But I almost thought about like recasting again
• 55:58
  Speaker 1: when I found out she was the bachelorette. M hmm,
• 56:01
  Speaker 1: I would have been. That would have been a shocker,
• 56:03
  Speaker 1: fantastic story right there. That's amazing. We all love Joe Joe. Okay,
• 56:08
  Speaker 1: what is your favorite wine to drink personally when you
• 56:12
  Speaker 1: know you are praying and loving? Um? I shard so hard.
• 56:17
  Speaker 1: Chardonay French chardonnay is my favorite. UM and short Ashley,
• 56:27
  Speaker 1: I'm more of a red wine girl. But I like
• 56:31
  Speaker 1: the expression my mom's shard's real hard. I'm telling you,
• 56:35
  Speaker 1: if you want a team up, I recently bought that
• 56:36
  Speaker 1: domain and I'm figuring out what to do with shards
• 56:38
  Speaker 1: so hard, I'll join in. French chard burgundies and ChIL
• 56:43
  Speaker 1: those are my favorite. Okay? Cool? And lastly, what is
• 56:47
  Speaker 1: the wine that you serve as an at home date
• 56:50
  Speaker 1: or you know, order on the menu for a lady
• 56:52
  Speaker 1: in yourself. I'm a white wine kind of dude. Um,
• 56:57
  Speaker 1: so yeah, Samaniel Blanco Chardonnay, or I'm like Millans Muscade
• 57:02
  Speaker 1: something like that. So it's just like lower alcohol, easy
• 57:05
  Speaker 1: to drink, um and drink white wine like a middle
• 57:08
  Speaker 1: aged woman. It's kind of myne. We gotta get to
• 57:13
  Speaker 1: on the Housewives next. Now that's a reality show that
• 57:16
  Speaker 1: Ben Flynn a goold excel on you. I'll just like
• 57:19
  Speaker 1: show up shirtless delivering bottles of chardonnay. I would watch it. Uh, hey, Ben,
• 57:26
  Speaker 1: you're the man. I really appreciate you. Thank you for
• 57:28
  Speaker 1: coming on. We end every in depth with this. If
• 57:30
  Speaker 1: you have thirty seconds to talk to the listeners, uh,
• 57:34
  Speaker 1: with anything going on in your life that you just
• 57:36
  Speaker 1: like to leave them with or anything you'd like to
• 57:38
  Speaker 1: promote and talk about. The stage is yours, uh starting now?
• 57:44
  Speaker 1: Um yeah, I mean obviously I'm still making I'm still
• 57:47
  Speaker 1: making Rose, So if you want to, if you want
• 57:49
  Speaker 1: to buy any rose, it's it's I on dot wine,
• 57:52
  Speaker 1: not dot com dot wine. But more importantly, I think
• 57:55
  Speaker 1: that you know, given the climate, in the situation of
• 57:58
  Speaker 1: what's going on in the world today, like big deep, um,
• 58:02
  Speaker 1: listen to yourself, you know, try to try to take
• 58:04
  Speaker 1: some time and if if you can't do any play
• 58:06
  Speaker 1: love at least, um, you know, find a few days
• 58:09
  Speaker 1: to kind of reset because it's crazy, man. I just
• 58:14
  Speaker 1: I don't know what. I don't know where this is
• 58:16
  Speaker 1: gonna what the world's gonna look like at the end
• 58:17
  Speaker 1: of it. But I just hope that everyone's um, you know,
• 58:20
  Speaker 1: mentally sane and happy. So surround yourself with with loved
• 58:24
  Speaker 1: ones and support each other. That's really the big message
• 58:27
  Speaker 1: I'm I'm looking for these days. The original Bachelor, Ben,
• 58:31
  Speaker 1: we appreciate you, Buddy Thinks for coming on. Hey, we
• 58:34
  Speaker 1: mentioned at the beginning you might seat in the show notes.
• 58:37
  Speaker 1: Don't forget that today's episode is two bachelors for the
• 58:40
  Speaker 1: price of one. Up next, Jake Pavelka Yes, Jake Pelca,
• 58:46
  Speaker 1: the original pilot Bachelor from Dallas to exist. He was
• 59:01
  Speaker 1: known as the very first Bachelor who was a pilot.
• 59:04
  Speaker 1: He was originally a contestant on The Bachelorette Jillian Harris's
• 59:08
  Speaker 1: season and was brought back soon after to star as
• 59:13
  Speaker 1: the Bachelor. Jake Pavelco Welcome to the Almost Famous In
• 59:18
  Speaker 1: Depth Podcast. Thanks Ben, I appreciate it, man, It's good
• 59:21
  Speaker 1: to be here. How are you. We're doing really well.
• 59:24
  Speaker 1: We're doing great, Ashley and I are excited to talk
• 59:26
  Speaker 1: to you today. This is a special in depth where
• 59:29
  Speaker 1: we're gonna actually have two former Bachelor's in one episode.
• 59:33
  Speaker 1: Uh hey, Jake, to get us started here, UM, I
• 59:37
  Speaker 1: know right now you're working, and so there's gonna be
• 59:39
  Speaker 1: a little background noise where exactly you are are you
• 59:42
  Speaker 1: at in the world? Well, Uh so, as you know, Um,
• 59:48
  Speaker 1: I left the airline industry. I no longer fly anymore
• 59:51
  Speaker 1: the airlines very unfortunately because of COVID pandemic. I'm hearing
• 59:56
  Speaker 1: some very very deep furloughs. I think I've heard almost
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 1: pilots across the board at all the major airlines. So
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 1: I left the airline and I opened up an environmental
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 1: business here in Dallas Fort Worth and it has been
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 1: just we're in full explosive growth mode. Has been amazing, amazing. Yeah,
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 1: when did you uh make that decision? So I officially,
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 1: I guess I my I've completed my seventeenth year at
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 1: the airline in and left there pretty recently. Yeah, I
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 1: missed flying, But I'll tell you what, owning a business
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 1: I know, as you know, Ben, you know it's owning
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 1: a business is just amazing. It's the hardest thing I've
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 1: ever done. But it's the coolest thing I've ever absolute.
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 1: It is a I guess the pursuit worth going down.
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 1: I always tell anybody to do it. I don't think
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 1: it's easy. Uh, And in fact, I just said it
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 1: the other day. I said, the one thing about having
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 1: your own business and starting a business is you never
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 1: feel fully capable of doing it. Um. Yes, you always
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 1: feel a little bit behind. But hey, you know what,
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 1: for now, let's start back at the beginning where people
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 1: that listen to this podcast, uh, they'll remember you from
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 1: you grew up in Texas and started taking flying lessons
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 1: at a young age. What exactly what got you into flying.
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 1: So I just always been. I used to have dreams
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 1: that I could fly, and so I always knew i'd
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 1: be involved in aviation in some capacity. I didn't realize
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 1: it would turn into a career, but so I just
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 1: started taking flying lessons when I was ten. I'd go
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 1: mow yards and then go buy thirty minutes, and go
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 1: mow more yards and go buy thirty more minutes, and
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 1: just turned into enough flight time to actually work for
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 1: a company called Mayor Flight out of Burbank. It was
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 1: my first job. And I remember thirty five millimeter film
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 1: that you put in the cameras. I used to fly
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 1: undeveloped thirty five mill millimeter Fuji film up and down
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 1: the West Coast in the middle of the night. So
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 1: I'd go from Burbank up to Oakland, down to Vegas
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 1: back to Burbank. Interesting, and now, how did the Bachelor
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 1: get ahold of you? Do you apply? Or? Good question?
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 1: My church nominated me. So the pastors of the church
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 1: came up and said, hey, if we nominated just a
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 1: pretty cool show, would you wanna would you be interested
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 1: in that? And I was like, oh, of course, but
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 1: you know, I'm not a celebrity. And I'm not royalty
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 1: or anything like that. Why would they be interested in me?
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 1: And sure enough, I still kind of crazy that all
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 1: that happened. What do you think it was about you?
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 1: That you're pastor the church saw they were like, this
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 1: is a guy that I want to sign up for
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 1: the show, because that that is probably, especially back then,
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 1: a big step for any of those people to take
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 1: in your life to say I want to sign you
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 1: up for this dating show, especially in the church. Yeah, out, yeah,
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 1: I told him. I told him that I knew you've
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 1: been and they're like, oh, yeah, you you gotta, you
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 1: gotta do it. Yeah. I was a cool high school
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 1: kid back then. Yeah, I was the nerd back in
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 1: high school at that point. No, So what they were
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 1: what they were hoping was, you know, I grew up
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 1: in the church Christian and they they're like, you know,
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 1: we know that you're not gonna go sleep with all
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 1: of the all of the women. You know, you'll you'll
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 1: you'll be a gentleman. And you know I went on
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 1: there and tried my absolute best. Do you feel like
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 1: you made the church proud? Yes? But you know what's
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 1: crazy though, So it doesn't matter what you do on
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 1: the you know, during the fantasy suite, whether you intend
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 1: to have sex or not, it doesn't matter the way
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 1: the show is produced, you know, it's like the doors
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 1: closing really slow and then a hand reaches around and
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 1: puts the do not disturb, So it's completely insinuated no
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 1: matter what you do. Oh, I know all about that. Yeah,
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 1: I said my couch and enjoyed watching you, Ashley. That
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 1: was you did a good job. It was fun. Thank
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 1: you very much. Well. They aired Allie season last week,
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 1: and of course Ali is one of your top four girls.
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 1: How does it feel just like watching people from your
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 1: season move on and just like how they you know,
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 1: form families of their own and just like it all
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 1: started with you. Oh that's great. Um, you know, I
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 1: haven't talked to Ali. There's several of the several of
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 1: the women that I've kept in touch with over the years,
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 1: you know, and they're married now have kids, and it's
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 1: really cool to see, you know, just see their lives
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 1: progress and everything. Yeah, that's interesting. I was wondering why
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 1: my Instagram blew up last week. Yeah, it's probably, I mean, honestly,
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 1: it's it is. It's probably because these women who are
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 1: definitely a part of your story. Are now back on
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 1: the television for these got you know kind of reunion
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 1: re recap shows. One of the purposes of the In
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 1: Depth podcast is to is to go be on the
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 1: show and to go into the lives of the people
• 1:05:02
  Speaker 1: that have participated in it. And Gia was some somebody
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 1: that we sadly lost. Um and uh, can you just
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 1: spend a little bit of time, Jake, and for anybody
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 1: out there that maybe didn't get to watch the season
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 1: and didn't get to know her personally? What kind of
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 1: person was she? Oh? She was. She had a thing
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 1: for athletes, that was that was her vice right there.
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 1: She loved dating professional athletes. And but golly, I remember
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 1: when she got out of that limousine. She was so
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 1: dropped dead beautiful. Her personality matched it. I mean she
• 1:05:39
  Speaker 1: just glided over to me. Um. I knew that just
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 1: the way she addressed me that night. I'm going wow.
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 1: I mean, if your personality is just half of you,
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 1: know how beautiful you are. And turned out she was
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 1: just the whole package. Um. It's funny. I remember we
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 1: were in St. Lucia during this season and we were
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 1: sitting on the beach and you know, I really wanted
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 1: it to be her, but I could tell that we
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 1: just maybe we're looking for different things in life. Um
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 1: and uh that it probably long term wasn't gonna work.
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 1: And what he did is it turned into a really
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 1: good friendship afterwards. She was somebody that I can fight
• 1:06:23
  Speaker 1: it in and she had been you know, through that
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 1: journey with me. So it was like when someth would
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 1: go go wrong or go right, you know, we would
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 1: you know, staying pretty close contract contact. We did the Bachelor,
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 1: Bachelor Pad the second season and the Bachelor Pad together.
• 1:06:37
  Speaker 1: That was a that was a blast. So that was
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 1: actually the first person I was really close with that
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 1: I lost in life and so that was a really
• 1:06:46
  Speaker 1: that was a tough time. Geeus. Passing is so so sad. Um.
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 1: I want to move on to just where you are
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 1: in life today. Have you had a serious girlfriend since
• 1:06:58
  Speaker 1: the show? Know, you left with we all we all
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 1: know you love with Vienna and it was very uh dramatic,
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 1: did not end well? Did that like preventing you from
• 1:07:11
  Speaker 1: getting into, um, another relationship soon after? No? Um, I've
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 1: actually dated some really amazing women after the Bachelor. I've
• 1:07:23
  Speaker 1: been in a relationship for We've kind of been on
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 1: and off for about two years. She was going through
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 1: law school at s m U and so really hard
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 1: to spend time together. So it was like we were
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 1: on for a little while, then we were off while
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 1: she was going through school. Now she's barred and has
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 1: a has a job, and so that's looking pretty good.
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 1: So I'm currently in a serious relationship. Her name is Tiffany.
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 1: I think I think I remember this, Jake, you kind
• 1:07:50
  Speaker 1: of talking about it once we were in Vegas, that
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 1: you had something that actually just at Tiffany then ye.
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 1: So I mean, because you've dated for two years, you've
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 1: had some good relationships after your time with the Bachelor, which,
• 1:08:03
  Speaker 1: as we know, didn't work for you, as it doesn't
• 1:08:06
  Speaker 1: for for many people that go on the show, but
• 1:08:09
  Speaker 1: you gave it a good shot. Were you ever asked
• 1:08:10
  Speaker 1: to be the Bachelor again? Was I ever asked to
• 1:08:14
  Speaker 1: be the bag like a second time? No, never asked
• 1:08:18
  Speaker 1: to be again. So I mean, because it's interesting, you
• 1:08:20
  Speaker 1: know you if we look back and you weren't asked
• 1:08:23
  Speaker 1: to be the Bachelor again, but you're still considered one
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 1: of those Bachelor's that stand out to people. What what
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 1: do you think made you a Great Bachelor, So it
• 1:08:30
  Speaker 1: kind of seemed like the franchise was I know, at
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 1: that time, the franchise, I don't say, I know, I
• 1:08:37
  Speaker 1: don't believe the franchise was doing real well. Um. I
• 1:08:40
  Speaker 1: think what they did, what Mike Flice did was was brilliant.
• 1:08:45
  Speaker 1: Rather than bringing really well known people in, I think
• 1:08:49
  Speaker 1: he started, you know, one, recycling people that already went
• 1:08:52
  Speaker 1: through the Bachelorette or The Bachelor having them back. So
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 1: I think that was a really good move on their part.
• 1:08:58
  Speaker 1: And I was just a normal I you know, somebody
• 1:09:01
  Speaker 1: that you know, the pilot uniform on and go move
• 1:09:04
  Speaker 1: people around the United States kind of like Pete does. Um,
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 1: you know, just very normal people. I tried to be
• 1:09:10
  Speaker 1: very relatable. I was myself. I tried really hard to
• 1:09:15
  Speaker 1: treat you know, the women with the utmost respect that
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 1: they deserve. And you know, I not to mention, one
• 1:09:24
  Speaker 1: of the women on my season slept with the producer,
• 1:09:26
  Speaker 1: so that helped with the ratings I think a little bit.
• 1:09:28
  Speaker 1: But oh yeah, can we talk about that. I remember
• 1:09:33
  Speaker 1: that that's a big deal. What was her name? She
• 1:09:39
  Speaker 1: had a religtionship with the producer, like up partly a
• 1:09:42
  Speaker 1: cast producer yeah, that was not produced. I remember them
• 1:09:47
  Speaker 1: talking by Jake. You're not gonna believe. This guy's name
• 1:09:51
  Speaker 1: was Ryan. I don't remember his last name, but he
• 1:09:53
  Speaker 1: was one of the field producers that came in to
• 1:09:55
  Speaker 1: do my hometown package. So he liked shot all those
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 1: flying scenes and with the planes. But yeah, I mean,
• 1:10:02
  Speaker 1: I guess they wound up hitting it off when he
• 1:10:04
  Speaker 1: was doing uh when he was producing the house and
• 1:10:07
  Speaker 1: everything and got real close, wound up being a storyline.
• 1:10:12
  Speaker 1: Are they still together? Do we know this? Do we
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 1: know if there's like, did anything ever happen? I don't
• 1:10:17
  Speaker 1: think so. But she was worth losing his job over.
• 1:10:21
  Speaker 1: I'm sure he got fired, right he did, Yeah, he did,
• 1:10:25
  Speaker 1: and they put it all, they aired it all. It
• 1:10:26
  Speaker 1: was really surprised. You not watch the show that you produced.
• 1:10:30
  Speaker 1: See what happens when you do that? How did you So?
• 1:10:36
  Speaker 1: One of the producers told me, I knew you know
• 1:10:39
  Speaker 1: what it was. Cassie, my my producer on there, she said, hey,
• 1:10:43
  Speaker 1: look something's going on with Rosalind and one of the producers.
• 1:10:46
  Speaker 1: She said, you can you can probably figure out what
• 1:10:49
  Speaker 1: it is. Chris is gonna come in and like fully
• 1:10:51
  Speaker 1: disclose what it is. But she's probably gonna be leaving,
• 1:10:54
  Speaker 1: so you know, make sure that you're you know, you know,
• 1:10:58
  Speaker 1: in a frame of mind to have a series conversation
• 1:11:00
  Speaker 1: with you. It's like, I know exactly what's going on.
• 1:11:04
  Speaker 1: It was the second episode. We weren't deep enough into it,
• 1:11:06
  Speaker 1: you know, it was kind of like, hey, if that's
• 1:11:08
  Speaker 1: how you're gonna operate here, goodbye. The thing is, I'm
• 1:11:16
  Speaker 1: actually surprised it hasn't happened more often, because you do
• 1:11:20
  Speaker 1: get so close and intimate with the producers and like
• 1:11:24
  Speaker 1: they are the people that you are like connecting with
• 1:11:27
  Speaker 1: and like sharing your soul with, and the Bachelor just
• 1:11:31
  Speaker 1: seems like so far off um and like on a pedestal.
• 1:11:37
  Speaker 1: So I'm not I'm not completely surprised that this has
• 1:11:40
  Speaker 1: happened or but I'm surprised that it hasn't happened more.
• 1:11:43
  Speaker 1: There was girls on my season where we would talk
• 1:11:46
  Speaker 1: about kind of like maybe not the full blown crushes
• 1:11:50
  Speaker 1: we had, but feeling a little something and something for
• 1:11:54
  Speaker 1: a producer or too. That's because they you know, those
• 1:11:58
  Speaker 1: in the moment interviews, you know they're asking, well, Ashley,
• 1:12:00
  Speaker 1: when he when he said that to you, how did
• 1:12:01
  Speaker 1: that make you feel and like if I was him,
• 1:12:04
  Speaker 1: what would you say? Right? And then there's just like that, um,
• 1:12:09
  Speaker 1: they they have so much emotion toward you, and they're like, oh,
• 1:12:14
  Speaker 1: I know, I know. It seems like they're feeling the
• 1:12:16
  Speaker 1: exact same feeling that you are. Oh God, you brought
• 1:12:21
  Speaker 1: up a really good point. If to do it all
• 1:12:24
  Speaker 1: over again, I would try to have a very like
• 1:12:28
  Speaker 1: a very basic season, like we don't need to go
• 1:12:31
  Speaker 1: to you know, Indonesia or Bali. I mean, all that's great, Australia,
• 1:12:36
  Speaker 1: things like that, Let's let's stay local, let's go to
• 1:12:39
  Speaker 1: the Caribbean, and don't put me on a pedestal, don't
• 1:12:43
  Speaker 1: make me out to be a celebrity. Let let me
• 1:12:45
  Speaker 1: just be me. So that you know, the women aren't
• 1:12:49
  Speaker 1: looking up going oh my gosh, it should be Oh
• 1:12:52
  Speaker 1: that's Jake, easy to talk to, easy to approach, you know,
• 1:12:55
  Speaker 1: I could tell him anything. And I felt that way
• 1:12:58
  Speaker 1: with Jillian, and it was like, oh my gosh, here
• 1:13:00
  Speaker 1: comes to Bachelorette, you know, because they elevate you up
• 1:13:04
  Speaker 1: a little bit and it does this psychological mind game
• 1:13:07
  Speaker 1: when you're one of the contenders. Well, but you know,
• 1:13:10
  Speaker 1: with all that being said, too I I totally agree
• 1:13:12
  Speaker 1: with you. But since you were the Bachelor, I mean,
• 1:13:17
  Speaker 1: you have worked on some projects that have definitely kind
• 1:13:20
  Speaker 1: of lifted you up to be one of those celebrities.
• 1:13:23
  Speaker 1: I mean, if we go back at your resume here,
• 1:13:25
  Speaker 1: you've done Dance with the Stars, you did Bachelor Pad,
• 1:13:28
  Speaker 1: you're on The Bold and the Beautiful, and you've appeared
• 1:13:31
  Speaker 1: on some other TV shows. So I mean from the Bachelor,
• 1:13:34
  Speaker 1: you really have kind of created your own celebrity. I
• 1:13:43
  Speaker 1: guess that I've never felt that way, you know. I mean,
• 1:13:46
  Speaker 1: and that's one of the things that you know, I
• 1:13:48
  Speaker 1: want to like just tell both of you. It's like,
• 1:13:51
  Speaker 1: it's so cool, you know. I mean, everybody in America
• 1:13:53
  Speaker 1: knows who you both aren't, but you don't act any different.
• 1:13:57
  Speaker 1: I mean, you're just very genuine on your Twitter feeds,
• 1:14:00
  Speaker 1: in your your Instagram and everything. I think that's one
• 1:14:02
  Speaker 1: of your best qualities. I've tried to do the same thing.
• 1:14:05
  Speaker 1: I mean, I'm just Jake. I'm not you know, I'm
• 1:14:07
  Speaker 1: not a celebrity. I'm not any better, I'm not any
• 1:14:09
  Speaker 1: worse than anybody. It's just gay. Yeah. Well, and I
• 1:14:13
  Speaker 1: appreciate that. Man. It is something that that Ashley and
• 1:14:16
  Speaker 1: I try to do we we we really try to
• 1:14:18
  Speaker 1: lean on each other, especially through the podcast and kind
• 1:14:20
  Speaker 1: of the people listening. Just keeping level heads. Uh, never
• 1:14:24
  Speaker 1: let it get too high or too low. Uh, keep
• 1:14:28
  Speaker 1: your star up, keep your star up. Well, we got
• 1:14:30
  Speaker 1: to and and stars are aligning right now for yeah,
• 1:14:36
  Speaker 1: exactly as so many tons, so many funds. And and
• 1:14:40
  Speaker 1: one of our good friends, Caitlin Bristow. Obviously we found
• 1:14:43
  Speaker 1: out and I go episode a few weeks ago that
• 1:14:45
  Speaker 1: she's gonna be on Dance with the Stars in the
• 1:14:47
  Speaker 1: next upcoming season. Whenever that can happen. Uh, you've done
• 1:14:51
  Speaker 1: Dance with the Stars. Any advice for Caitlin? You know what,
• 1:14:54
  Speaker 1: I've never met, kayten Caitlin. I I just hear the
• 1:14:58
  Speaker 1: greatest things about her. Um, I'm gonna try to go
• 1:15:01
  Speaker 1: to one of the shows that she's on if they
• 1:15:03
  Speaker 1: have a if they have a live audience. Yeah, I
• 1:15:08
  Speaker 1: honestly think she's gonna do real well. Um. Same, Just
• 1:15:12
  Speaker 1: just spend the time you need with your coach and
• 1:15:15
  Speaker 1: listen to your coach or listen to your listen to
• 1:15:17
  Speaker 1: your pro How challenging was it? Like? How exhausting I
• 1:15:22
  Speaker 1: can't dance I always I had to practice ten hours
• 1:15:24
  Speaker 1: a day. I think it wore Chelsea and my partner out.
• 1:15:27
  Speaker 1: Tony is, you know, a good friend of Ben and mine,
• 1:15:31
  Speaker 1: and she was your runner up, and she is now
• 1:15:34
  Speaker 1: happily married and I think her her babies do within
• 1:15:39
  Speaker 1: the next two months. I'd say, how does it feel
• 1:15:42
  Speaker 1: seeing her um in mommy mode? That I think that's
• 1:15:48
  Speaker 1: like she is built to be a mother. So I
• 1:15:51
  Speaker 1: couldn't be happier for And you know the crazy things.
• 1:15:54
  Speaker 1: Ten years later, she looks exactly the same, just striking. Yeah,
• 1:15:59
  Speaker 1: Tinley's one of those. Tinley is one of a kind.
• 1:16:01
  Speaker 1: She's a really special, special human. She's a great friend
• 1:16:05
  Speaker 1: of the podcast, a good friend of ours. It's somebody
• 1:16:07
  Speaker 1: that we've all been really rooting for and we're just
• 1:16:09
  Speaker 1: super engaging. I know, Ashley and I just really think
• 1:16:12
  Speaker 1: highly of her. Yeah. I was hoping that eventually Tindley
• 1:16:16
  Speaker 1: would wind up on Dancing with the Stars. I can
• 1:16:19
  Speaker 1: see her doing really well on that. Yeah, she would
• 1:16:22
  Speaker 1: take the Mirrorball trophy. Yeah, for sure. She has such
• 1:16:25
  Speaker 1: a dancer's body. Mm hmm. All right, well, Jake, thank
• 1:16:29
  Speaker 1: you so much for joining us. Um it means a
• 1:16:32
  Speaker 1: lot that you took at the half an hour out
• 1:16:33
  Speaker 1: of your day. Thank you. I'm sorry. I was so
• 1:16:36
  Speaker 1: rushed it was hard to put this together, so I
• 1:16:38
  Speaker 1: appreciate the latitude problem. Hey Ben, I always like to ask,
• 1:16:43
  Speaker 1: and I want to extend the same bit. Is there
• 1:16:45
  Speaker 1: anything that I can do for you? Do you need?
• 1:16:47
  Speaker 1: What can I do to help with your your company?
• 1:16:50
  Speaker 1: That's really nice, man, that's really nice to you right now.
• 1:16:53
  Speaker 1: Uh you could, uh, you know, if you like coffee,
• 1:16:56
  Speaker 1: just jump online and buy a bag of coffee. That
• 1:16:58
  Speaker 1: would help. I'd love to see your name come across.
• 1:17:00
  Speaker 1: I'll do it. What about you, Ashley? You know when
• 1:17:05
  Speaker 1: you have a kid, you can buy our children's book,
• 1:17:08
  Speaker 1: Lucy and Clark. I'll buy. I'll buy ten copies, okay
• 1:17:14
  Speaker 1: if you have a Niezer nephew. Yes, of course, Lucy
• 1:17:19
  Speaker 1: and Clark, a Story of Puppy Love. I love it.
• 1:17:23
  Speaker 1: Oh that's great. Hey, Jake Pavlican, thanks a lot for
• 1:17:26
  Speaker 1: joining us, Buddy, appreciate it. Thanks guys. Follow the Benn
• 1:17:30
  Speaker 1: and Ashley I Almost Famous podcasts on I Heart Radio
• 1:17:33
  Speaker 1: or subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts.