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Mega Edition: The Murders In Moscow And The Confusion Following The Arrest (9/22/26) · Beyond The Horizon

0:00
Speaker 1: And welcome back to the program. When discussing what happened
0:05
Speaker 1: in Moscow, we're left with a lot more questions than
0:09
Speaker 1: we have answers. And today, The Independent has 12 of
0:13
Speaker 1: those questions that could lead to, perhaps, solving the murders
0:18
Speaker 1: that took place in Moscow. So, let's get right into
0:22
Speaker 1: this article and let's see what's up. Headline, These 12
0:26
Speaker 1: questions could hold the key to solving the Idaho murders.
0:29
Speaker 1: Here's what we know and don't know. With each piece
0:33
Speaker 1: of information revealed or theory debunked, dozens more questions emerge.
0:39
Speaker 1: Sheila Flynn, Rachel Sharp, and Andrea Blanco report on the
0:43
Speaker 1: murders that have rocked the small town of Moscow. This
0:49
Speaker 1: article was authored by Sheila Flynn, Rachel Sharp, and Andrea Blanco.
0:55
Speaker 1: The investigation into the brutal murders of University of Idaho
0:58
Speaker 1: students Zanna Kernodle, Kaylee Gonsalves, Madison Mogan, and Ethan Chapin
1:04
Speaker 1: is now in its seventh week, with the killer or
1:06
Speaker 1: killers still at large. Every individual connected to the case
1:11
Speaker 1: so far, from two surviving roommates to a victim's former boyfriend,
1:15
Speaker 1: has been publicly ruled out by police, leaving an echo
1:19
Speaker 1: chamber with no names to fill it. There's no doubt there.
1:23
Speaker 1: Every single person that you would think could be connected
1:26
Speaker 1: to this has been ruled out. So that leads me
1:30
Speaker 1: to believe once again that we're dealing with somebody that
1:33
Speaker 1: might not have been on the radar, might not be
1:36
Speaker 1: somebody that these kids knew, somebody that might have known them,
1:40
Speaker 1: but they didn't know this person and certainly not.
1:43
Speaker 2: Part of their quote unquote friend group.
1:46
Speaker 1: Because if it was, I have to believe that this
1:49
Speaker 1: person or persons, they would have been caught already. Details
1:55
Speaker 1: about the murders that shook the small college town of Moscow, Idaho,
1:59
Speaker 1: remain scant. The murder weapon is nowhere to be found,
2:03
Speaker 1: and there are huge gaps in the timeline of the
2:06
Speaker 1: last known movements of two of the victims. Investigators have
2:10
Speaker 1: admitted that they are stumped by the killings in the small,
2:13
Speaker 1: notoriously safe college town and still have no suspects or
2:17
Speaker 1: persons of interest on their radar. For weeks, officials have
2:21
Speaker 1: given little in the way of updates on the case,
2:24
Speaker 1: the silence and absence of information only serving to trigger
2:28
Speaker 1: an avalanche of online rumors and conspiracy theories among internet sleuths.
2:34
Speaker 1: While police won't say what they do know, they have
2:36
Speaker 1: resorted to debunking some of these online theories that they
2:40
Speaker 1: know to be incorrect. And you could look at this
2:43
Speaker 1: two ways, right? Them debunking these online theories, A, they
2:48
Speaker 1: have a handle on the situation and they know exactly
2:50
Speaker 1: what's going on. Or B, they're targeting these online theories
2:54
Speaker 1: and speculation because they have nothing else to go on.
2:58
Speaker 1: And if it's B, well, that's rather terrifying, no? Because
3:02
Speaker 1: they should have a lot to go on by this point.
3:05
Speaker 1: We're talking seven weeks now. Yeah, you should have some
3:09
Speaker 1: information that you're working on behind the scenes. But with
3:13
Speaker 1: each piece of information revealed or each theory debunked, dozen
3:17
Speaker 1: more questions emerge about the case. Here, the Independent takes
3:22
Speaker 1: a deep dive into the mountain of unsolved questions and
3:25
Speaker 1: the scant details we do know. The nature of the murders.
3:30
Speaker 1: What we know. The attack was targeted, local police have said.
3:34
Speaker 1: Early on in the investigation, it was described as a
3:37
Speaker 1: crime of passion by Moscow Mayor Art Betke and as
3:41
Speaker 1: personal by Police Chief James Fry. Police have since distanced
3:45
Speaker 1: themselves from those characterizations, only revealing that they're operating on
3:50
Speaker 1: the belief that they don't believe the circumstances leading to
3:54
Speaker 1: the attack were random. A few weeks later, into the investigation,
3:59
Speaker 1: Kaylee Gonsalves' father, Steve Gonsalves, said that officials have given
4:03
Speaker 1: vague information about the case and whether or not it
4:06
Speaker 1: was just one student who was the target in the murders.
4:10
Speaker 1: And he's not wrong about that. The police have been very,
4:12
Speaker 1: very vague as far as this case goes. And then
4:17
Speaker 1: the communication, I'm not going to beat a dead horse here,
4:20
Speaker 1: but it's been bad from Jump Street. You can't walk
4:23
Speaker 1: things back in a case like this. You have to
4:26
Speaker 1: be clear and you have to be precise. Because if
4:30
Speaker 1: you walk things back and you're giving the wrong messaging,
4:33
Speaker 1: you're going to open yourself up to criticism right out
4:36
Speaker 1: of the gate. And that's what we're seeing here. People
4:40
Speaker 1: have a bad taste in their mouth over some of
4:43
Speaker 1: the walkbacks, over some of the miscommunication. So they feel
4:46
Speaker 1: like perhaps the police are in over their heads. I've
4:51
Speaker 1: been told it's one target, but then again, there's the
4:54
Speaker 1: bigness like it's purposely big. I'm hoping, but it confuses everyone. Yeah,
4:59
Speaker 1: because nobody knows what it really means other than maybe
5:03
Speaker 1: somebody had a different kind of attack footprint.
5:06
Speaker 2: Mr.
5:06
Speaker 1: Gonsalves said in an interview with CNN, we all want
5:10
Speaker 1: to play a part in helping and we can't move
5:12
Speaker 1: if we don't have any real substantial information to work from.
5:17
Speaker 1: And I get his frustration. Like I've said a million
5:20
Speaker 1: times here before, I understand Mr. Gonsalves and the pain
5:24
Speaker 1: that he's going through. And this is a man who
5:27
Speaker 1: wants resolution. This is a guy who is not just
5:31
Speaker 1: going to sit back and accept the investigation to go
5:35
Speaker 1: wherever it's.
5:35
Speaker 2: Going to go.
5:37
Speaker 1: He's going to have his say, and he's going to
5:39
Speaker 1: say what he wants to say about these things. And
5:41
Speaker 1: people are just going to have to deal with it.
5:46
Speaker 1: Officials are also staying silent around whether all or four
5:50
Speaker 1: of the victims were intended targets or whether the killer
5:54
Speaker 1: targeted one victim with arrest simply in the wrong place
5:57
Speaker 1: at the wrong time. Now that would be something. Collateral
6:01
Speaker 1: damage to this level? If only one was targeted and
6:06
Speaker 1: they killed all four, why would they do that? Especially
6:10
Speaker 1: if the targets were Maddie or Kaylee. If they killed
6:14
Speaker 1: them first, then why go kill Ethan and XANA? So
6:19
Speaker 1: they have to make it make sense. And they haven't
6:22
Speaker 1: done that yet. And it's causing a lot of confusion,
6:25
Speaker 1: not only with the families, but for the public at large.
6:32
Speaker 1: You're going to have to trust us on that at
6:34
Speaker 1: this point, because we are not going to release why
6:36
Speaker 1: we think that. Captain Roger Lanier said during a press
6:39
Speaker 1: conference on November 23rd, in response to why officials believe
6:43
Speaker 1: the killings were targeted. And that's all fine and well
6:47
Speaker 1: to say, but trust is earned, not just given. And
6:52
Speaker 1: anybody out here who's demanding that you trust them without
6:55
Speaker 1: them earning that trust, well, I'm going to look at
6:57
Speaker 1: you sideways. And if I'm the family member of one
7:02
Speaker 1: of these murdered students.
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Speaker 2: Forget it.
7:04
Speaker 1: I'm not trusting shit. I'm trusting results. That's all I'm trusting.
7:12
Speaker 1: Aaron Snell with the Idaho State Police told Fox News
7:15
Speaker 1: Digital that information about the targeted murders is being handled
7:19
Speaker 1: with caution so as to not jeopardize the investigation. And
7:23
Speaker 1: so if we just provide information to the public, I
7:26
Speaker 1: just don't think that's going to be a wise choice,
7:28
Speaker 1: he said. And that's true. You can't give this information out.
7:32
Speaker 1: Anyone who's calling for inside information, anyone who's calling for
7:36
Speaker 1: what the investigators are doing, they're not interested in justice.
7:41
Speaker 1: They're interested in more clicks or more eyes on whatever
7:44
Speaker 1: project they're working on. I don't want to know what
7:47
Speaker 1: the investigators are doing, but I do want a clear
7:51
Speaker 1: line of communication, not only with us, but especially for
7:55
Speaker 1: the victim's families. They deserve to be kept in the loop.
7:59
Speaker 1: And that doesn't mean giving them inside info. or information
8:03
Speaker 1: that's being vetted or chased down, but keeping them in
8:06
Speaker 1: the loop is a good idea. Now, we heard from
8:09
Speaker 1: Madison Mogan's father that he has been kept in the loop,
8:12
Speaker 1: but Mr. Gonsalves, he has a different opinion on what's
8:16
Speaker 1: going on. Although behavioral analysts are working on a profile,
8:21
Speaker 1: it will only be used to refine the investigation and
8:24
Speaker 1: will not be released to the public because it could
8:27
Speaker 1: potentially put more fear, more suspicion on a wide variety
8:31
Speaker 1: of people, he said. That's BS.
8:33
Speaker 2: I don't buy that.
8:35
Speaker 1: You can be vague with the profile and just give
8:37
Speaker 1: us an idea of who this person might be. You
8:40
Speaker 1: don't have to give names, nothing like that. But if
8:42
Speaker 1: there's a killer in the community and I have a
8:45
Speaker 1: kid going to this school... I'm going to want to
8:47
Speaker 1: have all of the information that is feasible for me
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Speaker 1: to have and a basic profile on who this killer is.
8:55
Speaker 1: I think that's something the public should have access to.
9:01
Speaker 1: Officials have defended their work on the investigation thus far,
9:04
Speaker 1: telling the community it took time to process the sprawling
9:07
Speaker 1: crime scene, an off-campus rental home shared by Gonsalves, Mogan,
9:11
Speaker 1: and Kernodle. We understand you want answers. We want answers too.
9:16
Speaker 1: But these take time, State Police Colonel Kedrick Willis said.
9:20
Speaker 1: When asked if any law enforcement officials had shared that
9:24
Speaker 1: Kaylee was the target of the attack, her sister Olivia
9:27
Speaker 1: Gonsalves told CNN, they won't confirm who it was to us.
9:31
Speaker 1: So again, for the people out there who might not
9:34
Speaker 1: be paying attention in the back, Mr. Gonsalves isn't getting
9:37
Speaker 1: inside information from the investigation. Any information they received as
9:44
Speaker 1: far as the Gonsalves family that we know of, came
9:47
Speaker 1: from the coroner. So I think that the anger at Mr. Gonsalves,
9:52
Speaker 1: pretty misplaced. That should be directed at the coroner. If
9:55
Speaker 1: you're mad at somebody, well, she's the one who released
9:58
Speaker 1: the information to him. On November 29th, the local prosecutor
10:03
Speaker 1: walked back the claim that the killings were targeted. Admitting it, perhaps,
10:07
Speaker 1: isn't the best word to use to describe the brutal murders.
10:11
Speaker 1: So what is it then? If it's not targeted, what
10:14
Speaker 1: is it? It seems like the word targeted has different
10:19
Speaker 1: understanding for different people who are listening and perhaps isn't
10:23
Speaker 1: the best word to use. Latah County Prosecutor Bill Thompson
10:27
Speaker 1: said to News Nation, The bottom line is whoever is
10:31
Speaker 1: responsible for this is still at large. That can't be changed. Well,
10:35
Speaker 1: it can be if you arrest them. You can change
10:38
Speaker 1: it like that, right? And yet another apparent walk back
10:42
Speaker 1: hours later, the Moscow Police Department issued a statement saying,
10:46
Speaker 1: saying investigators do not currently know if the attacks were
10:49
Speaker 1: targeted and accused Mr. Lata of miscommunication. And this whole
10:55
Speaker 1: entire thing could have went off the rails there. So
10:58
Speaker 1: I will give this to the investigators for making a save.
11:02
Speaker 1: They've saved the investigation at least to a point where
11:05
Speaker 1: it doesn't look like a complete and utter dog and
11:08
Speaker 1: pony show. So that's definitely progress. The murder weapon.
11:14
Speaker 2: What we know.
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Speaker 1: Latah County Coroner Kathy Mabbitt revealed that each victim was
11:19
Speaker 1: stabbed multiple times with a large knife, describing their wounds
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Speaker 1: as pretty extensive and revealing that they bled out inside
11:28
Speaker 1: their student home. I've been a coroner for 16 years.
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Speaker 1: We have had multiple victim murders in the past, but nothing,
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Speaker 1: nothing like this, she said. Police have now revealed that
11:39
Speaker 1: they believe the murder weapon was a fixed blade knife
11:42
Speaker 1: and confirmed that they had visited local stores. to inquire
11:46
Speaker 1: about any recent purchases. A local store owner previously said
11:51
Speaker 1: that officials had been especially interested in the sales of
11:54
Speaker 1: a military-style K-bar or Rambo-style knife. Now, we heard that
12:00
Speaker 1: they didn't go to some of the stores around town,
12:03
Speaker 1: and I talked about this a little bit earlier, and
12:05
Speaker 1: I honestly don't think that the knife was purchased here. However,
12:09
Speaker 1: I think the police probably should go to every one
12:12
Speaker 1: of these stores just in case, no?
12:16
Speaker 2: What we don't know.
12:18
Speaker 1: No murder weapon has been found. The messy crime scene.
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Speaker 2: What we know.
12:23
Speaker 1: Describing the crime scene to today, Coroner Miss Mabbitt said
12:27
Speaker 1: that there was quite a bit of blood. DNA has
12:30
Speaker 1: been recovered from the home, which Mogan, Gonsalves, and Kernodle
12:34
Speaker 1: shared with at least two other roommates. These roommates were
12:37
Speaker 1: home at the time of the killings, but apparently were
12:40
Speaker 1: unaware of the murders.
12:41
Speaker 2: Until hours later.
12:43
Speaker 1: Nearly three weeks after the killings, Police revealed the six-person
12:47
Speaker 1: may have lived at the home.
12:50
Speaker 2: Well, that's a bit of a stretch. No, lived at
12:52
Speaker 2: the home.
12:52
Speaker 1: The person was on the lease, but they weren't living
12:55
Speaker 1: there at the time that these murders occurred. Police have
12:59
Speaker 1: taken more than 4,000 pictures of the residence. After the murders,
13:03
Speaker 1: the door appeared to be unlocked with no sign of
13:05
Speaker 1: forced entry, and nothing seemed to have been taken, investigators said.
13:10
Speaker 1: The bodies were found in the victims' beds on the
13:13
Speaker 1: second and third floors. leading authorities to believe they were
13:16
Speaker 1: asleep when killed. At a vigil on the 30th of November,
13:20
Speaker 1: Gonsalves' father revealed that his daughter and Mogan were in
13:23
Speaker 1: the same bed when they were killed. Gonsalves' parents had
13:27
Speaker 1: previously said they had been told by authorities that the
13:31
Speaker 1: investigation is moving slowly because the killer left behind a
13:34
Speaker 1: mess of evidence, and that's relatively vague.
13:38
Speaker 2: It could be evidence.
13:39
Speaker 1: from the actual murders itself to the killer leaving behind
13:44
Speaker 1: DNA evidence that would lead the investigators to finding out
13:47
Speaker 1: who this person is. So when they say a mess,
13:50
Speaker 1: we don't know what kind of mess it was, just
13:53
Speaker 1: that it was a mess. Steve and Christy Gonsalves said
13:58
Speaker 1: they heard from police that the crime scene was sprawling
14:01
Speaker 1: and chaotic. They're telling us that there's so much evidence
14:04
Speaker 1: that it's going to take a lot of time to
14:06
Speaker 1: process it all. Mr. Gonsalves told Fox News, This wasn't
14:10
Speaker 1: like a pinpoint crime. This person was sloppy. Again, that's
14:14
Speaker 1: relatively vague. What does that mean? This person was sloppy.
14:18
Speaker 1: They were sloppy with the way they killed. They were
14:20
Speaker 1: sloppy with their own DNA. They were sloppy with evidence.
14:25
Speaker 2: Very vague.
14:26
Speaker 1: But one thing's for sure. According to the police, the
14:30
Speaker 1: whole entire scene was chaotic. So I'm guessing that it
14:34
Speaker 1: was one of the most violent scenes that they have
14:37
Speaker 1: ever seen. In an interview nearly four weeks into the case, Mr.
14:41
Speaker 1: Gonsalves revealed that the victim suffered big open gouges rather
14:46
Speaker 1: than simple stab wounds. A neighbor told Fox News that
14:50
Speaker 1: the victims often hosted gatherings at the house and had
14:53
Speaker 1: a lot of people coming in and out of the residence,
14:56
Speaker 1: which could potentially complicate crime scene analysis. Well, it really
15:00
Speaker 1: depends on what those rooms show, right? What sort of
15:03
Speaker 1: DNA is in those rooms? Because that's where these murders
15:08
Speaker 1: took place. The crime scene as far as the rest
15:10
Speaker 1: of the house, completely tainted. No doubt about it. But
15:14
Speaker 1: I don't know what happened in those rooms and I
15:16
Speaker 1: don't think anybody else does either. So if you're not
15:20
Speaker 1: part of the investigation, there's no way to tell if
15:23
Speaker 1: the actual crime scene, meaning where the murders took place,
15:27
Speaker 1: if it was contaminated or not.
15:29
Speaker 2: We just don't know that yet.
15:32
Speaker 1: What we don't know, it is not clear if the
15:35
Speaker 1: killer left their DNA at the crime scene. With officials
15:39
Speaker 1: believing the attack was targeted, it is possible that the
15:41
Speaker 1: perpetrator could have visited the home before that night. On
15:45
Speaker 1: November 29th, Latah County Prosecutor Bill Thompson appeared to cast
15:50
Speaker 1: doubt on the belief that all four victims were found
15:53
Speaker 1: in their beds. In an interview with News Nation, he
15:56
Speaker 1: refused to confirm the exact locations where the victims' bodies
16:00
Speaker 1: were found inside the student home, saying such information might
16:04
Speaker 1: only be known by the killer. And he's not wrong
16:07
Speaker 1: about that. But they have been adamant that these kids
16:11
Speaker 1: were killed in their beds. So are they giving us
16:13
Speaker 1: misinformation too? As for the victims who are deceased, I
16:19
Speaker 1: can't say for sure where they were found. And all
16:22
Speaker 1: that would be is one of the details that investigators
16:25
Speaker 1: would want to protect, as very few people would know
16:28
Speaker 1: the exact locations of the victims in the house, he said. Mr.
16:32
Speaker 1: Thompson also said that he didn't know if the victims'
16:35
Speaker 1: bedroom doors.
16:36
Speaker 2: Were left locked. Police have revealed that.
16:39
Speaker 1: Two of the victims were found on the second floor
16:42
Speaker 1: and the other two on the third floor, but have
16:44
Speaker 1: not confirmed who was where. Speaking to Fox News Digital
16:48
Speaker 1: on November 30th, Idaho State Police Communications Director Aaron Snell
16:52
Speaker 1: revealed investigators were wrapping up their search of the crime
16:55
Speaker 1: scene despite the lack of progress. And while that might
16:59
Speaker 1: be the case, they do reserve the right to go
17:02
Speaker 1: back to this house and look for more clues if
17:04
Speaker 1: they need to. So it's not like they can't ever
17:07
Speaker 1: go back here And they spent a lot of time
17:10
Speaker 1: in this house gathering clues in the first place. So
17:14
Speaker 1: they'll still have access to the house, but that part
17:17
Speaker 1: of the investigation, at least according to the investigators, is
17:20
Speaker 1: starting to wind down.
17:22
Speaker 2: And we'll see that in this case.
17:24
Speaker 1: Certain areas where they're investigating, as the investigation comes to
17:27
Speaker 1: a conclusion in that area, that part of the investigation
17:31
Speaker 1: will wind down a bit. And that's just commonplace anytime
17:35
Speaker 1: you have one of these sprawling investigations, such as the
17:38
Speaker 1: one as we see here. All right, folks, so that's
17:41
Speaker 1: going to do it for part one of this article.
17:45
Speaker 1: The next episode will be part two, and we'll pick
17:48
Speaker 1: up where we left off. If you'd like to contact me,
17:52
Speaker 1: you can do that at bobbycapucci at protonmail.com. That's B-O-B-B-Y-C-A-P-U-C-C-I
18:00
Speaker 1: at protonmail.com. You can also find me on Twitter at
18:04
Speaker 1: B-O-B-B-Y underscore C-A-P-U-C-C-I. The link that I discussed can be
18:10
Speaker 1: found in the description box. Welcome back to the program.
18:16
Speaker 1: In this episode, we're going to pick up where we
18:19
Speaker 1: left off in part one of the 12 questions that
18:23
Speaker 1: might hold the key to solving the Idaho murders. Once again,
18:28
Speaker 1: this article is from The Independent. The authors are Sheila Flynn,
18:32
Speaker 1: Rachel Sharp, and Andrea Blanco. The killer, what we know.
18:39
Speaker 1: Each individual so far linked to the murder investigation has
18:43
Speaker 1: now been ruled out as a potential suspect. Moscow police
18:47
Speaker 1: have said that the two surviving housemates who were in
18:50
Speaker 1: the home at the time of the killings and other
18:52
Speaker 1: friends who were in the home when the 911 call
18:55
Speaker 1: was made are not considered suspects. A man who was
18:59
Speaker 1: caught on camera with Madison Mogan and Kaylee Gonsalves at
19:03
Speaker 1: a food truck in the downtown area before they headed
19:05
Speaker 1: home and the private party who gave them a ride
19:09
Speaker 1: home from the truck have also been ruled out. Gonsalves,
19:13
Speaker 1: former long-term boyfriend with whom she shares a pet dog, Murphy,
19:17
Speaker 1: is also not being considered a suspect. In a twist
19:21
Speaker 1: on the November 6th, however, Moscow Police Chief James Fry
19:25
Speaker 1: told Fox News that cleared suspects could be re-interviewed. And
19:30
Speaker 1: that's a pretty common thing. Just because you get cleared
19:33
Speaker 1: initially doesn't mean if new evidence comes up, they can't,
19:36
Speaker 1: you know, come back and look at you. And that's
19:39
Speaker 1: what they said they've been doing, re-interviewing people as new
19:42
Speaker 1: evidence becomes available. What we don't know, six weeks on
19:50
Speaker 1: from the murders, the killer or killers remains at large
19:53
Speaker 1: with police admitting that they still don't have any suspects
19:56
Speaker 1: on their radar and with not a single arrest yet
19:59
Speaker 1: made in the case. Now that sounds pretty bad, right?
20:04
Speaker 1: No arrest, no persons of interest, nothing like that. But
20:07
Speaker 1: we have to understand that that this isn't your typical
20:11
Speaker 1: murder case. A, it's a quadruple homicide. B, it's in
20:15
Speaker 1: a place like Moscow. And C, there is little to
20:18
Speaker 1: no information about what went on here. So either we're
20:23
Speaker 1: dealing with somebody who is a sophisticated killer or the
20:27
Speaker 1: killer has gotten pretty damn lucky so far. Officials are
20:36
Speaker 1: exploring the possibility that there is more than one perpetrator,
20:39
Speaker 1: but have given no further update on whether the investigation
20:42
Speaker 1: is leading them to or from that theory. The lack
20:46
Speaker 1: of substantial information from police has led to rampant speculation
20:50
Speaker 1: by experts unaffiliated with the case, as well as internet
20:54
Speaker 1: sleuths confusing the true facts about the investigation. There's definitely
20:59
Speaker 1: a lot of that going on, but a lot of
21:01
Speaker 1: these experts have worked cases like this before and And
21:04
Speaker 1: they have something to offer, perhaps. But we always have
21:07
Speaker 1: to take it with a grain of salt because they
21:10
Speaker 1: don't have the case files. They're not behind the scenes
21:12
Speaker 1: interviewing people. All they can do is look at this
21:16
Speaker 1: and say, in my experience, this is what it looks like.
21:20
Speaker 2: The motive. What we know.
21:22
Speaker 1: The murderer targeted at least one of the victims, police
21:25
Speaker 1: have said.
21:26
Speaker 2: What we don't know.
21:27
Speaker 1: It is not known if the killer personally knew one
21:30
Speaker 1: of or more of the victims and whether the attack
21:33
Speaker 1: was carried out in a fit of jealousy or rage.
21:37
Speaker 1: The autopsies revealed that the bodies did not show any
21:40
Speaker 1: signs of sexual assault. So that usually rules out a sicko,
21:45
Speaker 1: serial killer, you know, rapist kind of guy. But there's
21:49
Speaker 1: other kinds of killers out there who get off on
21:52
Speaker 1: just the killing. And I know that's bizarre to the
21:55
Speaker 1: rest of us, but the psyche of people that can
21:58
Speaker 1: do something like this, it is certainly something that should
22:01
Speaker 1: be studied by science. because you have to be a
22:04
Speaker 1: depraved individual to want to murder anyone, never mind four
22:09
Speaker 1: people sleeping in their beds. The 911 call.
22:16
Speaker 2: Well, we know.
22:17
Speaker 1: The 911 call was made at 11.58 a.m. on November 13th,
22:21
Speaker 1: and it originated from the phone of one of the
22:24
Speaker 1: two roommates who survived the attack. A dispatcher was told
22:29
Speaker 1: there was an unconscious individual. Authorities have since revealed that
22:33
Speaker 1: other friends were present in the house when the 911
22:36
Speaker 1: call was made after they were summoned by the roommates.
22:40
Speaker 1: The surviving roommates summoned friends to the residence because they
22:44
Speaker 1: believed one of the second floor victims had passed out
22:47
Speaker 1: and was not waking up, a statement by Moscow PD read.
22:51
Speaker 1: And when this all first broke, we were all asking ourselves,
22:54
Speaker 1: how the hell do you think someone's unconscious when they've
22:56
Speaker 1: been stabbed and murdered to death? Well, we come to
22:59
Speaker 1: find out that the roommates didn't have access to the rooms,
23:02
Speaker 1: it looks like. So that's why they thought whoever was
23:06
Speaker 1: in the room was unconscious. Why would you think that
23:08
Speaker 1: they're dead, right? That's the last thing you're going to think.
23:11
Speaker 1: A young kid, a college kid, you don't think your
23:13
Speaker 1: roommate's dead. Multiple people talked with the 911 dispatcher before
23:22
Speaker 1: a Moscow police officer arrived at the location. Officers entered
23:26
Speaker 1: the residence and found the four victims on the second
23:29
Speaker 1: and third floors. What we don't know, police have refused
23:33
Speaker 1: to reveal who made that 911 call and will not
23:37
Speaker 1: release the audio. When pressed by the independent on why
23:41
Speaker 1: the call could not be released, the department said the
23:44
Speaker 1: contents are exempt from public disclosure because the records are active,
23:48
Speaker 1: investigatory records which, if released, would interfere with the enforcement proceedings. Now,
23:54
Speaker 1: we've heard a lot of this same thing in the
23:56
Speaker 1: Jeffrey Epstein case, and especially when it comes to his
24:00
Speaker 1: suicide or murder, whatever.
24:02
Speaker 2: You want to believe it was. This is an ongoing investigation.
24:06
Speaker 2: We can't give you these case files.
24:09
Speaker 1: Now, obviously, apples and oranges here, but it's something that
24:13
Speaker 1: investigators love to do and say when they don't want
24:16
Speaker 1: to give you access to some information. It is unclear
24:20
Speaker 1: what the roommates and other friends discussed in the call,
24:23
Speaker 1: and what led them to describe a victim as merely unconscious.
24:28
Speaker 1: And that's a big part of the story that's missing.
24:31
Speaker 1: That's some context right there that could really put things
24:34
Speaker 1: into place. Some more pieces of the puzzle. But like
24:37
Speaker 1: everything else in this case, we're not going to get that.
24:42
Speaker 2: The timeline. What we know.
24:44
Speaker 1: Despite more details becoming available in the two weeks since
24:48
Speaker 1: the murders took place, key pieces of what happened in
24:50
Speaker 1: the early morning hours, of November 13th remain missing. Police
24:55
Speaker 1: have revealed the victim's last steps, yet the timeline becomes
24:58
Speaker 1: blurry as the second part of the night of the
25:00
Speaker 1: murders progresses. On the night of the 12th of November,
25:04
Speaker 1: Gonzalez and Mogan spent around three hours at Corner Club
25:08
Speaker 1: at the northern edge of Main Street. The pair walked
25:12
Speaker 1: straight down Main Street to a red brick building that
25:14
Speaker 1: used to host the now defunct Garden Lounge. A favorite
25:18
Speaker 1: food truck, Grub Wandering Kitchen, fondly called Grub Truck, by
25:22
Speaker 1: its many local fans, often parks outside on Main Street.
25:27
Speaker 1: Gonsalves and Mogan ordered, laughed, and chatted with friends as
25:31
Speaker 1: they got their pasta carbonara. According to police, they got
25:34
Speaker 1: a lift home from a private party and returned to
25:37
Speaker 1: the King Road home at 1.56 a.m. Kernodle and Chapin
25:42
Speaker 1: returned to the King Road home at around 1.45 a.m.
25:46
Speaker 1: The young couple had gone to a party across the
25:48
Speaker 1: street at Sigma Chi. The other two roommates at King
25:52
Speaker 1: Road had gotten home first at around 1 a.m. and
25:56
Speaker 1: fallen asleep, according to police. Mogan and Gonsalves both made
26:00
Speaker 1: multiple calls to the same number around an hour after
26:04
Speaker 1: they got home. Gonsalves' sister said the unanswered calls were
26:08
Speaker 1: placed to her ex-boyfriend, who dated her sister for years
26:12
Speaker 1: before they amicably split, still sharing a dog named Murphy.
26:17
Speaker 1: He has been ruled out as a suspect. Authorities believe
26:21
Speaker 1: a killer or killers fatally stabbed Chapin, Kernodle, Gonsalves, and
26:24
Speaker 1: Mogan between 3 a.m. and 4 a.m. Their bodies weren't
26:28
Speaker 1: found until nearly nine hours later around noon on November 13th.
26:34
Speaker 1: What we don't know. Kernodle and Chapin's movements on the
26:38
Speaker 1: night of the murders are unclear. Police said the young
26:42
Speaker 1: couple were at a Sigma Chi party from around 8
26:45
Speaker 1: to 9 p.m.
26:46
Speaker 2: It is unclear where they were between 9 p.m. and 1.45 a.m.
26:51
Speaker 1: The area would have been busy at the time, surrounded
26:54
Speaker 1: by other student accommodations, as other young people headed home too.
26:59
Speaker 1: So my guess is, and just my speculation, that they
27:03
Speaker 1: were at this party the whole entire time. So I
27:05
Speaker 1: think some of the most crucial information here is going
27:08
Speaker 1: to be what happened at this Sigma Chi party. I
27:11
Speaker 1: can't get it out of my head or shake the
27:13
Speaker 1: feeling that it's going to prove to be crucial. Aside
27:18
Speaker 1: from the calls made by Gonsalves, what happened when the
27:21
Speaker 1: four returned home is also a mystery. It is not
27:25
Speaker 1: known if the killer had entered the house before the
27:27
Speaker 1: victims arrived home and hid before striking in their sleep
27:31
Speaker 1: or whether he entered the house after the students returned.
27:34
Speaker 1: It is also unclear when and how the suspect fled
27:37
Speaker 1: the home or if he has already left Moscow. And
27:42
Speaker 1: for me, I want to say that this person has
27:43
Speaker 1: already left Moscow because But then if you go and
27:46
Speaker 1: look at a place like Delphi, you see a guy
27:48
Speaker 1: like Richard Allen sticking around and living right there in
27:52
Speaker 1: the town where he committed these crimes. And it's not
27:56
Speaker 1: a big town down in Delphi either. So rationally, you
28:00
Speaker 1: would say somebody would want to get out of Dodge
28:02
Speaker 1: and go and live a new life somewhere else. But
28:05
Speaker 1: some of these people certainly obviously aren't thinking like a
28:09
Speaker 1: normal thinking person. White car scene near the crime scene.
28:15
Speaker 1: What we know on December 7th, police announced that they
28:18
Speaker 1: are looking for the owner and occupants of a white
28:21
Speaker 1: Hyundai Elantra that was spotted near the crime scene in
28:24
Speaker 1: the early morning hours on the day of the murders.
28:27
Speaker 1: It marked perhaps the most substantial update in the more
28:30
Speaker 1: than six weeks since the investigation started. Detectives did not
28:34
Speaker 1: reveal whether the owner of the white 2011-2013 Hyundai Elantra
28:40
Speaker 1: is believed to be a suspect, but said that the
28:43
Speaker 1: occupants of the vehicle may have critical information to share
28:47
Speaker 1: regarding this case. The license plate is unknown. The car
28:51
Speaker 1: was in the immediate area of the rental home on
28:54
Speaker 1: King Road in the early morning hours of November 13th.
28:58
Speaker 1: The murders are thought to have taken place between 3 a.m.
29:00
Speaker 2: And 4 a.m.
29:02
Speaker 1: If you know of or own the vehicle matching this description,
29:06
Speaker 1: or know of anyone who may have been driving this
29:08
Speaker 1: vehicle on the days preceding or the day of the murders,
29:12
Speaker 1: please forward that information to the tip line, the department
29:16
Speaker 1: said in a statement. So they've been going crazy looking
29:19
Speaker 1: for this car, and they've been looking for it a
29:21
Speaker 1: lot longer than the public has been aware. So this car,
29:26
Speaker 1: they feel anyway, is playing a crucial role one way
29:29
Speaker 1: or the other. They want to either A, exit out
29:32
Speaker 1: as something that's not involved, or B, well, if it's B,
29:36
Speaker 1: then they have some crucial information one way or the
29:39
Speaker 1: other about what went down. But either way, the police
29:42
Speaker 1: are looking for this car and they want to speak
29:44
Speaker 1: to whoever was driving it or whoever was riding in it.
29:50
Speaker 1: The development was quickly linked in online sleuth communities to
29:53
Speaker 1: body camera footage from a separate incident on the night
29:56
Speaker 1: of the killings, in which a Moscow police officer speaking
30:00
Speaker 1: to individuals less than a mile away from the crime scene.
30:03
Speaker 1: The interaction, which police said stemmed from an alcohol offense,
30:07
Speaker 1: took place just before 3 a.m., putting it right up
30:10
Speaker 1: against the window in which the students were thought to
30:13
Speaker 1: have been killed. The video drew rampant speculation online, especially
30:18
Speaker 1: in prolific Reddit communities, due to both the timestamp and
30:21
Speaker 1: the fact that a white vehicle was seen in the background.
30:25
Speaker 1: But Moscow police have since shut down speculation around the video,
30:29
Speaker 1: telling The Independent on December 8th that the incident on
30:32
Speaker 1: the body camera footage is in no way connected to
30:35
Speaker 1: the murders and the white car in the background is
30:38
Speaker 1: not the same one they are seeking information about. Another
30:43
Speaker 1: potential suspect But unverified development around the vehicle came days
30:47
Speaker 1: later with reports that a white car was seen speeding
30:50
Speaker 1: past a gas station at 3.45 a.m. on the night
30:54
Speaker 1: of the killings. Police have not commented on the video
30:57
Speaker 1: taken by a surveillance camera at the station about a
31:00
Speaker 1: four-minute drive from the student rental home. We haven't heard
31:04
Speaker 1: anything else about that part of the footage. And remember,
31:07
Speaker 1: this clerk was going through that footage themselves when they
31:10
Speaker 1: came across it. So you have this gas station roughly
31:14
Speaker 1: a mile away from the house and no police officers
31:17
Speaker 1: showed up there to try and get surveillance video. If
31:20
Speaker 1: it wasn't for this attendant going through this stuff, they
31:24
Speaker 1: would have never had this information. What we don't know,
31:29
Speaker 1: the identities of the owner of the Hyundai Elantra and
31:32
Speaker 1: its occupants remain unclear days after police announced their interest.
31:37
Speaker 1: The connection those individuals may have had to the case
31:40
Speaker 1: is also a complete mystery. claims Kaylee Gonsalves had a stalker.
31:46
Speaker 1: What we know. Moscow Police Department said they had found
31:49
Speaker 1: out through interviews that Gonsalves had complained of a stalker.
31:54
Speaker 1: What we don't know. Despite looking extensively into concerns raised
31:58
Speaker 1: by people who knew Gonsalves that she had complained about
32:02
Speaker 1: a stalker, police were unable to confirm those reports, the
32:05
Speaker 1: department has said. We obtained information through some of our
32:09
Speaker 1: interviews that Kaylee... had made some comments about having a stalker.
32:14
Speaker 1: So that's where that came from, Captain Lanier said. So far,
32:18
Speaker 1: we have not been able to corroborate that, but we
32:20
Speaker 1: are not done looking at that piece of information. And
32:24
Speaker 1: as we all know, there has not been anything as
32:26
Speaker 1: far as the stalker reported to us by the authorities.
32:30
Speaker 1: We heard from the vape shop owner, who said that
32:32
Speaker 1: the girls talked about a stalker, and we heard from,
32:36
Speaker 1: you know, some of the other people involved here that
32:39
Speaker 1: it might be a stalker, but we really don't have
32:41
Speaker 1: anything to sink our teeth in as far as that goes.
32:46
Speaker 2: Of interest. What do we know?
32:48
Speaker 1: Investigators are currently seeking surveillance footage from two areas of
32:52
Speaker 1: interest around the city of Moscow as they hunt for
32:55
Speaker 1: the knife-wielding assailant. Businesses and homes within the geographical area
33:01
Speaker 1: are being asked to share all outside surveillance video taken
33:04
Speaker 1: between 3 a.m. and 6 a.m. on November 13th, whether
33:09
Speaker 1: there appears to be motion in content or not. The
33:13
Speaker 1: areas include West Taylor Avenue, North Boundary, West Palouse River Drive,
33:18
Speaker 1: South Boundary, Highway 95 South to the 2700 block of
33:23
Speaker 1: Highway 95 South, East Boundary, and Botanical Garden, West Boundary.
33:29
Speaker 1: Investigators have determined the two areas of interest within the
33:32
Speaker 1: city are and have provided maps which are on our
33:35
Speaker 1: Facebook page and our website, Captain Lanier said on Sunday.
33:40
Speaker 1: And these are the areas that have canvassed for additional
33:43
Speaker 1: surveillance video and tips and have contacted several residents in
33:47
Speaker 1: the area.
33:49
Speaker 2: What we don't know.
33:50
Speaker 1: Police have not revealed why they are honing in on
33:53
Speaker 1: those particular.
33:54
Speaker 2: Areas of the city. The highway.
33:58
Speaker 1: The highway is around that route that Kernodle and Chapin
34:01
Speaker 1: are likely to have taken to get from the Sigma
34:03
Speaker 1: Chi to the off-campus home. So they're trying to piece
34:07
Speaker 1: it together. And they're looking at the most likely routes
34:10
Speaker 1: that these kids could have taken to get home or,
34:13
Speaker 1: you know, leave the party and end up where they
34:15
Speaker 1: ended up. And to do that, it's a painstaking task.
34:19
Speaker 1: You have to go through and put together every shred
34:22
Speaker 1: of evidence you have about their movements. And as far
34:27
Speaker 1: as we're concerned, the public, there's a huge gap still.
34:30
Speaker 1: So I don't know how anyone can be coming up
34:32
Speaker 1: with a theory about this, that, or the other thing
34:35
Speaker 1: when we don't even know what went down at the
34:37
Speaker 1: Sigma Chi party house. Safety concerns in Moscow.
34:43
Speaker 2: What we know.
34:45
Speaker 1: Backtracking from previous comments, Moscow police have confirmed that there
34:49
Speaker 1: is still a threat as the killer remains at large.
34:52
Speaker 1: Asked at a press conference days after the killings, How
34:55
Speaker 1: he could be sure that there was no danger, Chief
34:57
Speaker 1: Fry said, that's kind of unknown.
34:59
Speaker 2: We still believe it's.
35:00
Speaker 1: A targeted attack, but the reality is there's still a
35:03
Speaker 1: person out there who's committed horrible, horrible crimes.
35:08
Speaker 2: So there is a threat out there still possibly.
35:10
Speaker 1: We don't know it's going to be anybody else, but
35:12
Speaker 1: we all have to be aware of our surroundings and
35:15
Speaker 1: make sure that we're watching out for each other. That
35:18
Speaker 1: didn't help out these kids, if I'm being honest. They
35:21
Speaker 1: were all together, they were in groups, and they were
35:23
Speaker 1: murdered while they slept. Joseph Giacalone, a 20-year NYPD veteran
35:30
Speaker 1: and professor at John Jay College of Criminal Justice, told
35:34
Speaker 1: Fox that the ordeal was one of several missteps in
35:37
Speaker 1: the investigation. They don't have an identified suspect, and they
35:41
Speaker 1: still don't have a motive, so until you have those
35:43
Speaker 1: two extremely vital pieces, you can't set the public's mind
35:46
Speaker 1: at ease, Mr. Giacalone said. And he's right. If you
35:51
Speaker 1: don't have that stuff, you have nothing. Those are the
35:54
Speaker 1: two keys you need to have to open these doors,
35:57
Speaker 1: who the person was and what was the motive. Authorities
36:01
Speaker 1: have not revealed whether they believe the perpetrator has left
36:04
Speaker 1: Moscow already. On December 22nd, Moscow Police Chief James Fry
36:10
Speaker 1: declined to answer a question about whether the culprit was
36:13
Speaker 1: still in the area. Like I said, we're not disclosing
36:16
Speaker 1: any of that, but there's some of that we just
36:19
Speaker 1: don't know at this point, Mr.
36:20
Speaker 2: Fry said.
36:21
Speaker 1: We're still trying to put everything together. We've said all
36:24
Speaker 1: along that people need to be vigilant. We need people
36:27
Speaker 1: to pay attention. We're not sure exactly where the individual is. Well,
36:31
Speaker 1: that's not what you said all along. At first you
36:33
Speaker 1: said it was a targeted attack and there was no
36:35
Speaker 1: threat to the rest of the community. Then you have
36:38
Speaker 1: to walk that back and now there's a threat. So
36:41
Speaker 1: you see the miscommunication here can really, really harm the
36:45
Speaker 1: credibility of the investigators with the public. Potential links to
36:51
Speaker 1: other incidents.
36:52
Speaker 2: What we know.
36:53
Speaker 1: A month before the murders, the university's security issued a
36:57
Speaker 1: vandal alert to students and staff warning them about an
37:00
Speaker 1: assailant armed with a knife. The warning on the 12th
37:03
Speaker 1: of September, described as a threat with a knife, reported
37:07
Speaker 1: that a group of students had been walking through the
37:09
Speaker 1: campus when the man threatened them with a knife. The
37:13
Speaker 1: assailant was described as a white male, aged 18 to 22,
37:17
Speaker 1: who was dressed in all black, and no one was
37:20
Speaker 1: harmed in the incident but officials and felt the need
37:23
Speaker 1: to alert students and staff of the threat. Meanwhile, police
37:26
Speaker 1: said on Monday that reports of a skinned dog three
37:29
Speaker 1: miles away from the crime scene weeks ago are not
37:32
Speaker 1: related to the murders. Detectives are aware of a Latah
37:36
Speaker 1: County Sheriff's Office incident of the report of a skinned
37:39
Speaker 1: dog and have determined it is unrelated to this incident,
37:43
Speaker 1: a Moscow Police Department spokesperson told The Independent. Police also
37:48
Speaker 1: said that an incident in which two young females reported
37:51
Speaker 1: that a male had broken inside their car is not
37:54
Speaker 1: to be believed to be linked to the murders. Multiple
37:58
Speaker 1: neighbors heard the girls screaming and came to assist. They
38:01
Speaker 1: checked the area, but they did not find anyone. The
38:05
Speaker 1: neighbors told responding officers they had not seen anyone in
38:08
Speaker 1: or exit the vehicle. A post by Moscow police detailed
38:13
Speaker 1: the case was closed as unfounded, meaning that the incident
38:16
Speaker 1: cannot be substantiated. And there was a whole lot of
38:19
Speaker 1: this going on right in the wake of these murders.
38:23
Speaker 1: And people were thinking that, you know, this person might
38:25
Speaker 1: be lurking. And do you blame folks who were living
38:28
Speaker 1: there for feeling on edge? I certainly don't. Investigators had
38:33
Speaker 1: also explored the possibility that the quadruple murder might have
38:37
Speaker 1: been connected to a 2021 unsolved stabbing murder 400 miles away,
38:42
Speaker 1: but have since said there is no link between the crimes.
38:45
Speaker 1: Travis Juden, 26, said, and Jamie Lynn Juden, 24, were
38:49
Speaker 1: attacked in their home in Salem, Oregon by a masked
38:52
Speaker 1: assailant who broke in armed with a knife, the Marion
38:56
Speaker 1: County Sheriff's Office said at the time.
38:59
Speaker 2: Mr.
38:59
Speaker 1: Juden tried to fight off the attacker but was stabbed
39:01
Speaker 1: to death while his wife miraculously survived. Despite the victim's
39:06
Speaker 1: families putting up a $ 50, 000 reward for information leading to
39:10
Speaker 1: the killer, more than one year on, the case remains unsolved.
39:15
Speaker 1: And I don't know how you can discount what happened
39:18
Speaker 1: in both of these places as quickly as the police did,
39:21
Speaker 1: but they did. I mean, without any DNA evidence or
39:25
Speaker 1: anything like that, how can you just discount it and say, nope,
39:28
Speaker 1: they're not connected? Unless, of course, you're not trying to
39:31
Speaker 1: start a panic, because I could see that too. Now,
39:34
Speaker 1: I'm not saying that these are connected, but I just
39:38
Speaker 1: don't know how you rule it out so quickly. Similarities
39:42
Speaker 1: were drawn between the stabbings and the slayings of Gonsalves, Mogan, Kernodle,
39:47
Speaker 1: and Chapin. Chief Frye confirmed that the Oregon killings was
39:51
Speaker 1: on their radar before issuing a statement saying that the
39:54
Speaker 1: department had not found relevant evidence that the cases were connected.
39:59
Speaker 1: While these cases share similarities, there does not appear to
40:02
Speaker 1: be any evidence to support the cases are related, the
40:05
Speaker 1: statement read.
40:06
Speaker 2: In an exclusive interview.
40:07
Speaker 1: With The Independent, Juden's mother said that finding out who
40:11
Speaker 1: killed her son and also catching the killer of the
40:14
Speaker 1: slain students in Idaho would be the best Christmas present ever.
40:19
Speaker 1: What we don't know. Authorities have not confirmed or ruled
40:23
Speaker 1: out that the incident on campus in September could be
40:26
Speaker 1: linked to the murders. They also haven't revealed what evidence
40:30
Speaker 1: made them rule out the incident in which the dog
40:32
Speaker 1: was filleted. It is unknown whether Moscow authorities have reached
40:37
Speaker 1: out to the Marion County Sheriff's Office to obtain first-hand
40:40
Speaker 1: accounts about the investigation into Juden's murder. You could look
40:45
Speaker 1: at that a couple ways, right? Do they have something
40:48
Speaker 1: that they have working on that would lead them to
40:50
Speaker 1: believe that those killings have nothing to do with this?
40:53
Speaker 1: Or are they just being stubborn and they have a
40:55
Speaker 1: pigeonholed view of what happened here in Moscow? We just
41:01
Speaker 1: don't know. And until more is released, and really until
41:05
Speaker 1: a suspect is arrested, I have a feeling that we're
41:09
Speaker 1: not going to know. So until we get there, we'll
41:13
Speaker 1: be here adding these episodes to the catalog and looking
41:17
Speaker 1: for a little bit of clarity. All right, folks, that's
41:21
Speaker 1: going to do it for this one. If you'd like
41:23
Speaker 1: to contact me, you can do that at bobbycapucci at protonmail.com.
41:28
Speaker 1: That's B-O-B-B-Y-C-A-P-U-C-C-I at protonmail.com. You can also find me on
41:35
Speaker 1: Twitter at B-O-B-B-Y underscore C-A-P-U-C-C-I. The link that I discussed
41:42
Speaker 1: can be found in the description box.