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S3E10 - Handling Power Struggles and Big Feelings the Child-Centered Way · Play Therapy Parenting: Real Parenting Questions Answered by a Child Therapist

• 0:02
  You're listening to the
• 0:03
  Play Therapy Parenting Podcast with Dr. Brenna Hicks.
• 0:09
  Hi,
• 0:09
  I'm Dr. Brenna Hicks,
• 0:10
  The Kid Counselor.
• 0:11
  This is the Play Therapy Parenting Podcast where I give you insight,
• 0:14
  awareness,
• 0:15
  and enlightenment about your parenting
• 0:17
  and your relationship with your kids.
• 0:19
  In today's episode,
• 0:20
  I'm answering a couple of questions from Lisa in Texas.
• 0:23
  Lisa,
• 0:24
  thank you for the question.
• 0:25
  I literally just got back from Texas.
• 0:27
  I was in Houston
• 0:29
  over the weekend and it was an incredible experience.
• 0:32
  I've been to Texas before,
• 0:33
  but not to Houston,
• 0:34
  so it was fun to explore a new part of Texas,
• 0:38
  and it actually reminds me in a lot of ways of Florida,
• 0:40
  so it kind of felt like home.
• 0:42
  It was nice.
• 0:43
  Oh,
• 0:43
  by the way,
• 0:44
  OK,
• 0:44
  since I'm answering a question from Texas.
• 0:47
  If you all are ever in
• 0:49
  the Houston area,
• 0:50
  you have to go to the Color Factory.
• 0:54
  Mya and I went.
• 0:56
  It was one of the coolest experiences.
• 0:59
  It was so much fun.
• 1:01
  We enjoyed it so much.
• 1:03
  It has won all kinds of awards for like the best immersive experience in the country,
• 1:07
  blah blah blah,
• 1:08
  and I can see why.
• 1:09
  It was so much fun.
• 1:11
  If you are in the Houston area and or if you end up in Houston,
• 1:14
  check out the Color Factory.
• 1:15
  I am not an affiliate.
• 1:16
  I get nothing for this.
• 1:18
  I just really enjoyed it that much.
• 1:20
  So I just wanted to do a little public service announcement there.
• 1:22
  Color Factory was absolutely incredible.
• 1:25
  All right,
• 1:26
  so let me read you parts of Lisa's email and then we will dive into
• 1:31
  processing this.
• 1:32
  I'm considering play therapy for my five year old who has ADD and struggles
• 1:35
  with aggression towards siblings and tantrums when she does not get her way.
• 1:39
  I'm realizing there are a lot of power struggles with her,
• 1:41
  and I know I should give her more choices,
• 1:43
  but I don't know how.
• 1:44
  My question is how play therapy can be beneficial for her
• 1:47
  even though her sisters and I won't be in the room.
• 1:50
  I wouldn't expect her to have a tantrum or show aggression
• 1:53
  in the room with her CCPT meaning play therapist while playing.
• 1:57
  So that's the first question.
• 1:58
  There are a couple more,
• 1:59
  but I want to pause there.
• 2:01
  First of all,
• 2:02
  Lisa,
• 2:02
  I'm really thrilled that you're considering play therapy for your child,
• 2:06
  and based on what you're describing,
• 2:07
  I think it would be so helpful.
• 2:09
  And there are Texas is the hub of CCPT in the country.
• 2:14
  So you will find all kinds of CCPTs in Texas
• 2:18
  that will not be difficult for you at all.
• 2:19
  I know in other states it would be a lot more difficult,
• 2:22
  but Texas is full of them.
• 2:24
  I've actually coached so many CCPTs out of Texas,
• 2:27
  so I can put you in touch with one.
• 2:29
  You just need to let me know where you are.
• 2:30
  I know Texas is big.
• 2:32
  However,
• 2:33
  when you say that you're recognizing there are a
• 2:35
  lot of power struggles and she's having tantrums and aggression
• 2:39
  and you need to provide her with choices,
• 2:41
  you already have the insight,
• 2:43
  yes to all of those things.
• 2:44
  Everything you're describing comes back to power and control.
• 2:47
  And
• 2:49
  yes,
• 2:49
  if you provide her with choices,
• 2:50
  it will allow for her to not fight for power and control so much.
• 2:54
  So you already have that nailed down.
• 2:56
  I think you're pretty aware on that.
• 2:58
  The question about how play therapy will help even if no one else is in the room.
• 3:01
  This is actually a very common question,
• 3:03
  and I'm really glad that you asked.
• 3:06
  It's really interesting because many parents fear that.
• 3:08
  Many parents will say,
• 3:10
  I just don't think that they're ever gonna act that way with you.
• 3:12
  I don't think they would ever be aggressive.
• 3:14
  I don't think they would ever have a tantrum.
• 3:16
  I don't think they're ever going to struggle the way they do at home.
• 3:19
  Yes,
• 3:19
  they will.
• 3:21
  So there's this sense of there's a honeymoon phase with children.
• 3:25
  So the first few sessions,
• 3:26
  sometimes it lasts a little longer than a few,
• 3:28
  but in the early sessions,
• 3:30
  there's a sense of we're in the honeymoon phase
• 3:32
  and the child is on their best behavior,
• 3:34
  and they are wanting to make sure that they're liked
• 3:37
  and that they're well received and people like them and
• 3:41
  care about them and think that they're sweet and funny
• 3:44
  and all those things,
• 3:46
  but that's not congruent to who they really are,
• 3:48
  and it can't last forever.
• 3:50
  And the beauty of trusting the child and trusting the process
• 3:54
  is that your daughter knows what she struggles with.
• 3:57
  She knows she's aggressive,
• 3:59
  she knows she's power hungry,
• 4:01
  she knows that she throws tantrums,
• 4:03
  she knows that she's reactive,
• 4:05
  she will bring that into the sessions.
• 4:08
  That's what we count on in this model.
• 4:10
  Kids know their struggles and they will address them.
• 4:13
  They just have to have the environment and the relationship.
• 4:16
  So in the playroom with a play therapist.
• 4:19
  She will absolutely
• 4:20
  eventually have a tantrum.
• 4:21
  She will absolutely eventually show aggression,
• 4:24
  and we're not
• 4:25
  hoping for that,
• 4:26
  but we just know it's inevitable.
• 4:28
  It will emerge because it needs to.
• 4:31
  And so you do not need to be in the room for that to happen.
• 4:34
  And quite honestly,
• 4:35
  this is a really important component.
• 4:36
  I'm so glad that you asked this question,
• 4:38
  Lisa.
• 4:40
  children are very protective of the people that they love.
• 4:43
  They're very protective of their parents,
• 4:44
  they're very protective of their siblings,
• 4:46
  they're very protective of people that they
• 4:48
  don't think can handle their big feelings,
• 4:50
  their big needs,
• 4:51
  their big emotions,
• 4:53
  their big behaviors,
• 4:54
  and they learn really quickly.
• 4:57
  Oh,
• 4:57
  when I do that,
• 4:58
  when I say that,
• 4:59
  when I act that way,
• 5:00
  when I respond,
• 5:01
  it makes them mad.
• 5:02
  It makes me get in trouble,
• 5:04
  it makes them sad.
• 5:05
  It makes them yell,
• 5:06
  it makes them cry,
• 5:07
  it makes them whatever.
• 5:09
  So they learn,
• 5:09
  um,
• 5:10
  OK,
• 5:10
  they can't handle that.
• 5:12
  That's why a child-centered play therapist is so important,
• 5:16
  because they are neutral,
• 5:17
  they're a third party
• 5:19
  who can be objective,
• 5:21
  and we don't have skin in the game.
• 5:23
  We deeply care about your child,
• 5:25
  of course,
• 5:25
  we deeply care about your family.
• 5:28
  But I'm not emotionally impacted by your child's tantrum.
• 5:33
  I'm not reactive to your child's aggression.
• 5:36
  I'm not going to be influenced by whatever your child does in the playroom.
• 5:40
  I can just provide unconditional love and acceptance for her.
• 5:44
  And knowing that they don't have to protect you
• 5:47
  is very freeing for a child and so what I'm trying to say is if you were in the playroom,
• 5:52
  it would actually be detrimental and potentially a hindrance
• 5:55
  because they may not
• 5:57
  be able to do what they need to do and work on the stuff they need to work on
• 6:01
  if they're if you're in there because they're going to protect you from it,
• 6:04
  shield you from it,
• 6:04
  guard you.
• 6:06
  And they know
• 6:07
  that
• 6:08
  you
• 6:09
  can't handle that.
• 6:09
  I actually had a mom.
• 6:12
  That
• 6:13
  saw me bring a basketball hoop,
• 6:15
  like an over the door basketball hoop.
• 6:18
  Out of the playroom after a session with her son.
• 6:21
  And she was like,
• 6:22
  oh my gosh,
• 6:23
  did that get broken?
• 6:24
  Did you break that?
• 6:25
  And immediately launches into,
• 6:28
  you know,
• 6:28
  the,
• 6:28
  the Spanish Inquisition with her son.
• 6:31
  And I looked at her and I said,
• 6:33
  things get broken,
• 6:34
  sometimes accidents happen.
• 6:36
  We'll just screw it back in and we'll get it back up there.
• 6:39
  And because of her reaction and because of my reaction,
• 6:43
  it was very clearly contrasted.
• 6:45
  She saw it,
• 6:46
  I saw it.
• 6:46
  We,
• 6:47
  we both kind of sensed like,
• 6:48
  wow,
• 6:49
  Brenna's so neutral and I am so not and,
• 6:52
  and we kind of had this little moment of eye contact and she
• 6:54
  looked at me and she tilted her head sideways and she said,
• 6:57
  And this is why parents aren't allowed in the playroom,
• 6:59
  huh.
• 7:01
  And I was like,
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  you got it
• 7:03
  like high five on the insight.
• 7:04
  That's exactly why parents aren't allowed in the playroom,
• 7:07
  because
• 7:08
  parents can't handle it and that's not a dig,
• 7:10
  that's not a criticism.
• 7:12
  It's the way that we are all wired.
• 7:14
  You are emotionally invested,
• 7:16
  you feel responsible for your children's behaviors.
• 7:20
  You would be so upset if your kid hurt me.
• 7:23
  But I get hurt a lot.
• 7:25
  Parents don't see it.
• 7:26
  Parents don't know about it,
• 7:28
  but that's part of the job.
• 7:29
  We,
• 7:29
  we joke all the time.
• 7:30
  All of us on our Collective,
• 7:32
  our,
• 7:32
  our online community calls,
• 7:34
  all of us on our coaching calls,
• 7:35
  all of the therapists with whom I work all over the world,
• 7:39
  we joke all the time.
• 7:40
  I knew what I was in for.
• 7:42
  I knew what I signed up for.
• 7:43
  We joke all the time because
• 7:45
  things happen in play sessions,
• 7:47
  but parents aren't equipped
• 7:49
  to distance themselves from it.
• 7:51
  We are.
• 7:53
  That's the gift that a child-centered play therapist
• 7:55
  gives to your child and your family.
• 7:58
  We can be neutral,
• 7:59
  we can be objective,
• 8:01
  we can be removed enough
• 8:03
  that we're not influenced by stuff like that.
• 8:06
  So that will address your first question hopefully.
• 8:08
  Let's continue with parts of the other questions.
• 8:11
  I'm trying to implement the four pillars and feel stuck with limit setting,
• 8:15
  as my daughters have big angry feelings and their go to is to
• 8:17
  be aggressive with me or yell at me while I'm trying to reflect.
• 8:21
  So for example,
• 8:21
  my 3 year old was playing with a glass salt shaker and I took it from her.
• 8:25
  She got so mad
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  and when I started reflecting her feelings or explaining why I took it,
• 8:29
  she yells,
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  Stop!
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  then proceeds to try and hit and scratch me.
• 8:34
  My 5 year old has the same struggle since I
• 8:36
  just discovered the CCPT model thanks to your podcast.
• 8:38
  I'm so glad,
• 8:39
  Lisa.
• 8:40
  What do I do in the moment of their big anger and
• 8:42
  aggression toward me or a sibling so they don't hurt someone?
• 8:45
  I sometimes restrain them on my lap,
• 8:47
  but they hate that
• 8:48
  and ultimately want to run away from me because I'm the source of the frustration.
• 8:52
  If I just tell them to go to their room to calm down,
• 8:54
  they don't do that themselves.
• 8:57
  All right,
• 8:57
  so here's a really helpful rule of thumb.
• 8:59
  When a child is drowning,
• 9:00
  it's not the time to teach them to swim.
• 9:03
  So if your child is already to a
• 9:05
  point where they are completely overwhelmed emotionally,
• 9:08
  we do not want to use any skills.
• 9:12
  Because they can't receive it anyway,
• 9:14
  their brain is completely checked out,
• 9:16
  and they are consumed by feelings and they're big.
• 9:19
  And so the most helpful thing that you can do in that moment
• 9:22
  is to be a calm,
• 9:24
  centered,
• 9:25
  grounding presence.
• 9:27
  And just be there with them in the pocket of the big feelings.
• 9:30
  So that's a really important component
• 9:33
  is if a child is already at
• 9:36
  max capacity,
• 9:37
  they're not going to be able to hear anything that we say.
• 9:40
  So when a child is drowning,
• 9:41
  it's not the time to teach them to swim.
• 9:42
  Another helpful rule of thumb,
• 9:44
  and I don't know whether this is happening or not,
• 9:45
  Lisa,
• 9:46
  but I think it's relevant for everyone,
• 9:47
  so I'm just gonna throw it in there.
• 9:49
  If you can't say it in 10 words or less,
• 9:51
  don't say it.
• 9:53
  So be really careful about over-talking,
• 9:56
  over-reflecting,
• 9:57
  having long,
• 9:58
  deep conversations,
• 9:59
  trying to teach lessons,
• 10:00
  trying to impart morals,
• 10:02
  10 words or less.
• 10:04
  They're not verbal,
• 10:05
  they're not cognitive,
• 10:06
  they're not rational.
• 10:08
  And so the more brief we can be,
• 10:10
  the more clear we can be,
• 10:12
  the better it will be received.
• 10:14
  So I think those two principles will be very helpful
• 10:17
  as far as you took the salt shaker away.
• 10:20
  All right,
• 10:21
  I think that's probably at the root of the response.
• 10:24
  You took all of the power and control away from her
• 10:28
  and or
• 10:29
  she felt that she was slighted.
• 10:32
  And or
• 10:34
  there's,
• 10:34
  there's multi layers of a scenario like this often,
• 10:38
  and or you could have provided a choice there.
• 10:41
  So she's 3,
• 10:42
  she has a glass salt shaker.
• 10:44
  If she drops it,
• 10:45
  it could break.
• 10:45
  I,
• 10:45
  I can reason my way through all of that.
• 10:47
  I'm a mom too.
• 10:48
  I mean,
• 10:48
  granted,
• 10:48
  my son's 16,
• 10:49
  but still,
• 10:51
  I,
• 10:51
  I know what it's like to be around young kids.
• 10:53
  It's my whole career,
• 10:54
  20 plus years of working with kids as young as 2.
• 10:57
  So I understand there's a,
• 10:59
  this could break scenario,
• 11:01
  but that might be an opportunity to trust her.
• 11:04
  That might be an opportunity to provide her with a choice to assume good.
• 11:09
  That's glass and that could break.
• 11:11
  You're holding on to it.
• 11:13
  But it could break.
• 11:15
  You can choose to hold it really tight and not drop it,
• 11:18
  or you can choose to give it to mommy,
• 11:20
  which do you choose?
• 11:22
  OK,
• 11:22
  now you've not taken power away.
• 11:25
  Now she doesn't feel that it was a sense of injustice,
• 11:28
  and you've communicated that you believe that she's capable and that you trust her.
• 11:33
  That's a very different outcome.
• 11:35
  So,
• 11:36
  just a thought on that scenario.
• 11:38
  And then when you started to try to reflect her feelings,
• 11:40
  she was already mad
• 11:42
  and she got mad at you.
• 11:43
  You took it away.
• 11:44
  It's your fault.
• 11:46
  We don't have to teach our kids this.
• 11:48
  They just instinctively know it.
• 11:49
  It's your fault.
• 11:50
  All right,
• 11:51
  so you're the one to blame,
• 11:52
  Lisa.
• 11:52
  You stole the salt shaker from her.
• 11:54
  How dare you?
• 11:55
  So she's mad at you.
• 11:56
  So you reflecting her feelings at that moment,
• 11:59
  she's not gonna want to hear that from you.
• 12:01
  Understandably so.
• 12:02
  When a child is drowning,
• 12:03
  it's not the time to teach them to swim.
• 12:05
  You might need to give that a beat
• 12:07
  and,
• 12:08
  and really kind of acknowledge that.
• 12:10
  As far as the 5 year old,
• 12:12
  same struggle,
• 12:13
  and if there's big anger and aggression,
• 12:15
  OK,
• 12:16
  the second the behavior escalates toward aggression,
• 12:19
  you immediately go to limit setting.
• 12:21
  So
• 12:22
  I am not for hitting.
• 12:24
  In a
• 12:25
  calm but firm voice.
• 12:27
  Your tone shifts and you go straight to the limit.
• 12:31
  I am not for hitting.
• 12:33
  She is not for scratching.
• 12:35
  So and so is not for biting,
• 12:36
  whatever the scenario is,
• 12:38
  you're going to jump straight to the limit,
• 12:39
  then you're going to go back through the three steps.
• 12:43
  You're really upset right now,
• 12:45
  but people are never for hitting.
• 12:47
  You can choose to tell me how mad you are,
• 12:49
  or you can choose to hit your pillow in your bedroom,
• 12:51
  which do you choose?
• 12:54
  And in that scenario we're not
• 12:56
  reflecting feelings when there's aggressive behavior.
• 12:58
  We're jumping straight to limit.
• 13:00
  Now the first step of limit setting involves reflecting feelings,
• 13:04
  so that will get worked in,
• 13:06
  which says you're not wrong for being angry,
• 13:08
  you're not wrong for being upset,
• 13:10
  you're not wrong for wanting me to know how angry and upset you are.
• 13:14
  The behavior is what needs to be adjusted.
• 13:17
  So that's what we're teaching when we provide the 3 step for the limit.
• 13:22
  And you said,
• 13:23
  I sometimes restrain them on my lap.
• 13:26
  That's a very common practice for parents.
• 13:28
  We feel like we need to restrain and control kids so that
• 13:31
  things don't happen.
• 13:33
  In general,
• 13:34
  we want to try to set limits
• 13:37
  and let them control themselves.
• 13:39
  We need them to regulate themselves
• 13:41
  because if we always do it for them,
• 13:43
  we'll I'll just hold you and then you can't do anything.
• 13:46
  They're never learning to control their own behavior.
• 13:49
  They learn,
• 13:50
  well,
• 13:50
  I just get as out of control as I want to get
• 13:52
  and eventually mom will hold me so that I can't hurt anyone.
• 13:55
  That's not self-control.
• 13:57
  So as much as possible,
• 13:59
  we want to give children opportunities to self regulate themselves.
• 14:04
  And if there's any point where they do need to be held,
• 14:06
  you always have to explain why,
• 14:08
  and it has to be a choice.
• 14:10
  So,
• 14:11
  you're choosing for me to hold you because you're choosing to hit.
• 14:14
  If you choose to stop hitting,
• 14:15
  you choose for me to let you go.
• 14:18
  And then it's very clear they have a choice,
• 14:21
  they have control,
• 14:22
  and more importantly,
• 14:23
  they are learning to self regulate because if they choose
• 14:26
  to stop hitting they choose not to be held anymore.
• 14:29
  That's a very important component.
• 14:31
  All right.
• 14:31
  And then final question,
• 14:33
  I was wondering how to de-escalate my daughter's yelling yelling
• 14:36
  and arguing with each other in a child-centered way,
• 14:39
  other than yelling louder than them to tell them to be quiet.
• 14:43
  The age old issue,
• 14:44
  if my kid is screaming,
• 14:45
  do I scream to be heard?
• 14:47
  All right,
• 14:48
  very common question,
• 14:49
  very common dilemma.
• 14:51
  As a general rule,
• 14:53
  another rule of thumb.
• 14:54
  We want to be a thermostat,
• 14:55
  not a thermometer.
• 14:57
  In other words,
• 14:58
  if a child is really high,
• 15:00
  if the mercury level is real high,
• 15:03
  We're not going to match them.
• 15:05
  We're going to be the thermostat that adjusts accordingly.
• 15:08
  So when a child is screaming.
• 15:11
  We don't want to scream louder,
• 15:12
  we want to actually be softer and quieter.
• 15:15
  Now sometimes that means
• 15:16
  getting right in front of them and making direct eye contact so they can see you.
• 15:21
  Sometimes that means
• 15:22
  turning them so that they're facing you.
• 15:25
  Sometimes that means
• 15:26
  snapping or clapping to get their attention,
• 15:28
  and then gently and calmly and quietly saying,
• 15:32
  you are not for yelling at,
• 15:33
  neither one of you are for yelling at
• 15:36
  your sister's never for yelling at.
• 15:38
  Whatever limit you want to establish there,
• 15:41
  but we never want to yell because what we're demonstrating there
• 15:45
  is escalation creates more escalation.
• 15:48
  We actually want to show them when you get really,
• 15:50
  really hot,
• 15:51
  really,
• 15:51
  really high,
• 15:52
  really,
• 15:52
  really
• 15:54
  excited.
• 15:55
  Angry,
• 15:56
  aggressive,
• 15:57
  frustrated,
• 15:58
  loud,
• 15:58
  whatever,
• 15:59
  I'm going to show you what it is like to be balanced.
• 16:02
  The thermostat.
• 16:03
  Think about the function of a thermostat.
• 16:05
  If it's too hot in a room,
• 16:06
  you can make it cooler.
• 16:08
  If it's too cold in a room,
• 16:09
  you can make it warmer.
• 16:11
  That's what we're trying to do in our parenting.
• 16:12
  We're always trying to find balance,
• 16:15
  so that the child sees
• 16:17
  what regulation looks like.
• 16:19
  We're actually modeling that for them
• 16:21
  as an example.
• 16:22
  So Lisa,
• 16:23
  thank you so much for the questions.
• 16:24
  I hope that that is helpful for everyone.
• 16:26
  Those are very common scenarios that I think almost all of us face.
• 16:31
  So really helpful for us to go through that.
• 16:32
  I appreciate that.
• 16:33
  If you all would like to email me,
• 16:35
  please do brenna@thekidcounselor.com.
• 16:37
  I love you all.
• 16:37
  Have a good week.
• 16:38
  We'll talk again soon.
• 16:39
  Bye.
• 16:40
  Thank you for listening to
• 16:41
  the Play Therapy Parenting Podcast with Dr. Brenna Hicks.
• 16:45
  For more episodes and just subscribe to our newsletter,
• 16:48
  please go to www.playtherapyparenting.com.