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Love Rival Pushes Alabama Mom Off Cliff to Her Death: COPS · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:05
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
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Speaker 2: A gorgeous young mom suddenly goes missing or did she?
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Speaker 2: I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for
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Speaker 2: being with us here at Phoccination and Serious exem one eleven.
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Speaker 2: First of all, take a listen to our friends at
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Speaker 2: wa Ay.
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Speaker 3: Mother is desperately searching for her daughter Tonight, gone without
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Speaker 3: a trace. She explains the last time anyone saw Mary
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Speaker 3: Isabel and her worst fears about where she might be.
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Speaker 3: Debbie Wood is heartbroken, to say the least. Her daughter,
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Speaker 3: Mary Elizabeth Isbel has been missing since November twenty third.
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Speaker 2: Part of me wants to believe she's still here.
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Speaker 4: The part says, I'm ready for a funeral.
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Speaker 2: Can you even imagine that? As a mother? You think
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Speaker 2: all your love, all your time, all your energy, all
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Speaker 2: your money, your hard work literally blood, sweat and tears
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Speaker 2: into raising your child, and then suddenly you don't know
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Speaker 2: if they're dead or alive where they are. Seemingly, this
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Speaker 2: girl Mary Isbel vanishes into thin air, not a trace
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Speaker 2: left behind. That's really rare in our world. First, I'm
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Speaker 2: gonna go straight out to James shell Nutt, high profile
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Speaker 2: lawyer joining us from the shell Nut Firm twenty seven
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Speaker 2: years in Metro, major case and SWAT and you can
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Speaker 2: find them at shell Nut Law Firm dot com. When
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Speaker 2: I say that's really odd, because we all leave some
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Speaker 2: sort of a trace, I mean, if you looked at
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Speaker 2: my NAV on my minivan, you'd see the triangle home school,
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Speaker 2: grocery store, church, home school, grocery church are just over
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Speaker 2: and over and over again. That leaves a trace, that
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Speaker 2: leaves a trail. Cell phones, social media, you name it.
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Speaker 2: We leave traces as to where we've been, what we're doing.
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Speaker 2: But seemingly Mary i Isspel just vanished and the mom
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Speaker 2: has no idea where her daughter is. Can you even
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Speaker 2: imagine that?
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Speaker 4: No?
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Speaker 5: And you're right, I mean, normally there is some evidence.
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Speaker 5: You can find something somewhere. You know, a lot of
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Speaker 5: times there actually is a piece of evidence in some trace,
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Speaker 5: but it just takes a while for law enforcement to
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Speaker 5: locate that.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it takes a minute. I'm looking at a
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Speaker 2: shot of Maryspel right right now, and I got to
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Speaker 2: tell you she looks like a beauty queen. I mean, big,
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Speaker 2: beautiful smile, perfect teeth, perfect smile, the long blonde hair,
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Speaker 2: great figure. Joining me right now is Savannah Sap, multimedia
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Speaker 2: journalist reporter WAFF forty eight. Savannah, thanks for being with us.
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Speaker 2: I mean she looks like the Homecoming Queen and Miss
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Speaker 2: Sweet Potato wrapped all together in one. What do we
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Speaker 2: know about Mary iskeel Well, one.
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Speaker 6: Thing is for sure that she is a loving mother
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Speaker 6: and a loving sister. Mary issell Right had three older sisters,
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Speaker 6: I believe, and once she was reported missing. From what
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Speaker 6: I've seen on social media, it is amazing how they
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Speaker 6: jumped in together to find her. But she was family
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Speaker 6: oriented and like you said, Nancy, beautiful woman and a
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Speaker 6: loving mother as.
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Speaker 2: Well, loving mother to a young son. Doctor Bethany Marshall
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Speaker 2: joining me Renow psycho analyst joining us out of Beverly
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Speaker 2: Hills at doctor Bethany Marshall dot com. Doctor Bethany, thanks
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Speaker 2: for being with us. Then not knowing the not knowing
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Speaker 2: what happened, that is tortuous. And I got to tell
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Speaker 2: you something, doctor Bethany. I didn't like what I knew
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Speaker 2: about what happened to my fiancee, Keith, who was murdered.
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Speaker 2: But I knew, I knew that he was dead. I
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Speaker 2: didn't go to sleep every night wondering can I help him.
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Speaker 2: Can I find him? Will he be found?
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Speaker 7: Well?
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Speaker 2: Is he suffering? What is happening to him? Is there
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Speaker 2: any way I can save him? The not knowing has
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Speaker 2: got to be excruciating.
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Speaker 8: Nanthy, you heard me say this over and over again.
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Speaker 8: In the space of the unknown, we read our worst
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Speaker 8: possible fears, and there's an evolutionary basis for that. When
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Speaker 8: we were developing sort of millennia ago, when we didn't
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Speaker 8: know where the predator was, we had less of a
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Speaker 8: chance of survival. So now in our modern day world old,
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Speaker 8: when we don't know what happened, we become more anxious.
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Speaker 8: Now have you heard families when they have a lost
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Speaker 8: loved one say, I just want them to bring my
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Speaker 8: daughter home. It's dead or alive, I just want her home.
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Speaker 8: And you think it's so interesting. It's less. I mean,
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Speaker 8: obviously they want their loved one to be alive, but
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Speaker 8: primarily they want to know what happened to that person.
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Speaker 8: If you've said the imaginations run, and I think with
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Speaker 8: everything we know about crime and all the stories that
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Speaker 8: you expose, the worst possible fear is that person is
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Speaker 8: being tortured and kidnapped and held somewhere and then there's
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Speaker 8: the thought that every second, every second that ticks by,
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Speaker 8: is a precious second.
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Speaker 2: Doctor Bethany, I think I've ever told you this, but
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Speaker 2: for a long time after my fiancee Keith was murdered,
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Speaker 2: the dreams are not necessarily about his death. The dreams
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Speaker 2: were about him still being alive and me trying to
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Speaker 2: find him. That in the dream, I would know something
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Speaker 2: horrible was happening, but he was still alive. For instance,
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Speaker 2: I would find out, let's just pretend he was at
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Speaker 2: forty three New York City Avenue, and I would be looking.
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Speaker 2: Of course, it would always be at night, and there
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Speaker 2: would meet the street lights, and I'd be trudging along
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Speaker 2: this show of the road and there'd be forty one,
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Speaker 2: forty two, forty four, and I would look. I go
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Speaker 2: back to try to find forty three, and I could
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Speaker 2: never find. I could hear his voice, and I could
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Speaker 2: hear music, or I could hear conversation and laughter, and
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Speaker 2: I'd be trying to find it. And then I'd wake up,
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Speaker 2: thinking he's still alive, jump out of the bed literally
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Speaker 2: and start running toward the door to try to help.
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Speaker 2: And then it would hit me, wait, wait, he's I
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Speaker 2: can't help him. There's nothing I can do so that
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Speaker 2: not knowing whether this woman, this gorgeous mom, Mary Elizabeth
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Speaker 2: ispell Wright, is dead or alive, I can't even imagine
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Speaker 2: that much less for the sun she has a boy.
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Speaker 8: Well, Nancy, you are having trauma dreams, and I'm sure
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Speaker 8: this mother is having nightmares of her own. And you
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Speaker 8: and I have talked about this so many times that
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Speaker 8: in the face of the unknown, we read our worst
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Speaker 8: possible fears. It's almost better to know if the person's
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Speaker 8: dead or alive than to not know at all. Because
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Speaker 8: if we don't know what's happened to the lost loved one,
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Speaker 8: we imagine them being held. We imagine them being tortured.
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Speaker 8: We imagine minutes and seconds just ticking by and us
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Speaker 8: standing by helpless. So many families say I just want
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Speaker 8: my bring my child home. I hope they bring him
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Speaker 8: home or her home, And what they really mean is
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Speaker 8: dead or alive. They want to know what happened. We
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Speaker 8: have a need to know. Ante there's a strong evolutionary
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Speaker 8: biological basis for this. Our ancestors had a better chance
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Speaker 8: of survival if they knew where the danger was coming
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Speaker 8: from and they could get away from it. But if
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Speaker 8: they didn't know, their chances of a survival lowered. And
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Speaker 8: I think it's the same with these lost person cases
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Speaker 8: that when we know there's a better chance of survival
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Speaker 8: for the victim.
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Speaker 2: Guys, the search is on for this woman, her mom
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Speaker 2: desperately wanting answers. Take a listen to our friend Nikael
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Speaker 2: Williams Waay a police ay.
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Speaker 3: They first received reports of isbel being gone in January.
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Speaker 4: Now I can't find her.
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Speaker 9: Typically, you know, we don't have adults go missing this
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Speaker 9: long or make contact with a family member within two
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Speaker 9: or three months.
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Speaker 10: So this is a this is abnormal.
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Speaker 2: You know, it's super irritating and sometimes devastating to a
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Speaker 2: missing person case. Have you ever noticed Chris Buyers Christopher Byers,
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Speaker 2: former police chief John's Creek, twenty five years in Elle
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Speaker 2: law enforcement, now private investigator and polygrapher with Lancaster Information Services. Chris,
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Speaker 2: thank you for being with us when an adult goes missing,
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Speaker 2: and I've seen it happen with juveniles as well. When
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Speaker 2: cop say no offense, Ah, she'll turn up. She's just
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Speaker 2: off with her new boyfriend. Well guess what. Typically there's
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Speaker 2: not a new boyfriend. And I will never forget when
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Speaker 2: that was said about Stacy Peterson, a mom of I
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Speaker 2: think three who just vanished. Of course, you got to
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Speaker 2: consider the source in that one, Chris. That was Drew Peterson,
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Speaker 2: her cop husband, saying, oh, she just ran off with
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Speaker 2: her lover. They're having an a there, you know, trying
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Speaker 2: to drag her through the well. She's dead. Her body
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Speaker 2: has never been found. He just got convicted for the
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Speaker 2: murder of his third wife, Kathleen Savio. Meanwhile, Stacy Peterson
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Speaker 2: body still missing. But I can tell you that she
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Speaker 2: did not run off with a sex interest. There was
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Speaker 2: no book lover, there was no boyfriend. Drew Peterson killed her.
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Speaker 2: And that is one example of the theory she ran
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Speaker 2: off with Phil in the blank, It's not true. And
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Speaker 2: I'm just wondering how much that played into the missing
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Speaker 2: person's report of Mary Elizabeth Espell.
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Speaker 11: Yeah, definitely. It's one of the things that I am
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Speaker 11: very critical of my fellow officers and my profession and
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Speaker 11: as a public information officer for about twelve years. It's
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Speaker 11: it just seems to be that within law enforcement there
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Speaker 11: is this there is this tendency to downplay these missing
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Speaker 11: person cases on adults. It's definitely a pitfall that law
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Speaker 11: enforcement needs to be aware of. But yes, I agree
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Speaker 11: with you. It is a trend that I see all
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Speaker 11: too often throughout my career, and it is extremely frustrating.
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Speaker 2: And you lose such valuable time while the missing person
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Speaker 2: is quote off with a new boyfriend. I don't like it,
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Speaker 2: especially when you have a child involved. I mean, there
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Speaker 2: is no way. Just let me put it on the record.
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Speaker 2: I would ever willingly, no way in h e double
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Speaker 2: al willingly leave my twins. Ever, no matter what, I
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Speaker 2: don't need me time. I don't need to go sit
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Speaker 2: in a mud bath somewhere. I don't need those hot
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Speaker 2: rocks put on my back. I don't need a girl's weekend,
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Speaker 2: don't I don't need to go check in to some
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Speaker 2: hotel and read and watch movies. I'm fine leave. That's
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Speaker 2: how most mothers feel regarding they may need some time out,
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Speaker 2: but leaving your children yet, that's not gonna happen.
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Speaker 8: So, Nancy, if I should jump in that, but I stop.
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Speaker 2: You could I stop? You Go ahead, guys, you're hearing
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Speaker 2: doctor Bethany.
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Speaker 1: Marshall Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
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Speaker 2: Doctor Michelle dupre Is with us. Who is uncharacteristically quiet.
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Speaker 2: Right now, She's shot to the front of public consciousness
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Speaker 2: during the Alexan Murdoch double murder trial. Doctor Dupre forensic pathologist,
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Speaker 2: medical examiner, former detective, and author of literally wrote the
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Speaker 2: book Homicide Investigation Field Guy Dodtor Dupre jump in. Okay,
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Speaker 2: doctor Bethany, Well.
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Speaker 8: Well, if some mothers going to abandon a child, which
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Speaker 8: is very rare, chances are she abandoned the child from birds,
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Speaker 8: or she has a history of not being bonded.
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Speaker 2: Oh, you mean like a cat. How they have a
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Speaker 2: litter out under the deck off the back of the
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Speaker 2: house and then they just disappear and you find the
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Speaker 2: cats and have to take care of them. That yeah, okay,
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Speaker 2: what do you call that? I'm sure you have a
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Speaker 2: very fancy psychoanalyst term for acting like a cat.
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Speaker 8: Well, it's pretty simple. We say lack of maternal bonding.
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Speaker 2: I like acting like a cat better. But you know,
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Speaker 2: you say tomato, I say tomato. So here there was
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Speaker 2: not that at all, no lack of bonding with the sun. So, guys,
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Speaker 2: how did the whole thing go down? When do we
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Speaker 2: realize that Mary Spell is missing? Take a listen to
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Speaker 2: Nick Brown, Chief investigator out of Alabama.
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Speaker 9: Mary was reported missing by her ex host to Heartsell
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Speaker 9: Police Department, and that was December twenty seventh of They
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Speaker 9: started working the case and they determined through phone records
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Speaker 9: that Mary was living in our area into Cab County
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Speaker 9: at the time, on Lookout Mountain and we picked up
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Speaker 9: the case. I received the phone call from one of
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Speaker 9: the lead investigators at HERTZLL.
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Speaker 3: What says she stopped by the house that day but.
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Speaker 4: Call my husband Dannie at work, and they left Haunsell
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Speaker 4: and headed home. He called the police because we really
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Speaker 4: didn't know at the time who it was. And by
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Speaker 4: the tom he got there, the place was gone, but
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Speaker 4: they were up the road and no more SIGNABAA.
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Speaker 2: So let me understand what happened. First of all, we
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Speaker 2: know that this is Lookout Mountain area in Alabama to
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Speaker 2: Cab County, Alabama. Savannah South is with us WAF forty eight.
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Speaker 2: Tell me about the area, let's just start with that.
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Speaker 11: Well, see, the.
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Speaker 6: Area of the Cab County is filled with beautiful mountains,
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Speaker 6: but it's pretty much for the most part rural. You
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Speaker 6: have areas like Fort Payne, Hnegar. You know, all of
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Speaker 6: the surrounding areas including Lookout Mountain are pretty quiet, pretty serene.
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Speaker 6: And it's interesting to note that Mary Elizabeth Ifel was
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Speaker 6: reported mentalingly in Hertzell, but was found to be living
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Speaker 6: into Cab County, which is about I would say, around
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Speaker 6: two hours east of Hartzell. So it was kind of
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Speaker 6: jarring for all of us to learn that she was
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Speaker 6: in the Cab County or supposedly into Cab County this
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Speaker 6: entire time, or was living there for a short period
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Speaker 6: of time.
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Speaker 2: Where in Alabama is Decab County and Lookout Mountain? Where
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Speaker 2: is that? Exactly?
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Speaker 6: If you're looking at Huntsville, the Tennessee Valley area Fort
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Speaker 6: Pain in the Cabb County is going to be the
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Speaker 6: northeastern side of Alabama, right under the Tennessee state line.
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Speaker 2: Now in Lookout Mountain. The Lookout Mountain area in Alabama
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Speaker 2: population is about two thousand, very similar to where I
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Speaker 2: grew up in rural Bibb County in Georgia. And I
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Speaker 2: can tell you about this area specifically. I've been there
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Speaker 2: many many times because in Huntsville, not that far away,
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Speaker 2: there is a huge Scout center, a National Boy Scout Center,
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Speaker 2: I believe, isn't it James shell Nutt joining us. Isn't
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Speaker 2: there also a NASA structure there as well, a NASA center.
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Speaker 5: Yeah, there's a NASA center in the Huntsville and not
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Speaker 5: in Little River Canyon.
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Speaker 2: So she said that she mentioned the Huntsville area. It's very,
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Speaker 2: very mountainous and every road is very circuitous, hard to
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Speaker 2: really get anywhere, and that adds to the difficulty of
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Speaker 2: the search in this case. So where is Elizabeth Beth
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Speaker 2: is spelled seemingly vanishing into thin air? Take a listen
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Speaker 2: again to Nick Brown. Chief investigator Parsel.
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Speaker 9: PD had began working at They put her into Cab
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Speaker 9: County by phone records.
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Speaker 2: Through those phone records.
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Speaker 9: We determined some of the people that she was speaking
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Speaker 9: with at the time of her disappearance. We were pretty
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Speaker 9: sure that it happened between October and November of twenty
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Speaker 9: twenty one.
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Speaker 2: Through those phone.
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Speaker 9: Records, whe we were able to track down a few
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Speaker 9: people and talk to them and determine where she was leaving.
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Speaker 9: We recovered physical evidence from her home that showed signs
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Speaker 9: of a struggle, and we knew that at that time
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Speaker 9: that it was a crime scene.
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Speaker 2: Wow, that progressed pretty quickly, So they did all this.
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Speaker 2: The investigators here, who are keeping everything very close to
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Speaker 2: the best, they find where she was living through phone records.
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Speaker 2: They then analyze the phone records and determine to whom
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Speaker 2: she is speaking the most. They that's how they find
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Speaker 2: her friends, people she's talking to all the time. And
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Speaker 2: isn't this right? James shell Nutt, high profile lawyer joining
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Speaker 2: us out of this jurisdiction. You can also ping the phone.
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Speaker 2: You can determine how long conversations last, but you look
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Speaker 2: for recurring numbers, who the individual is speaking with the most,
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Speaker 2: how often those calls were made. But you have to
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Speaker 2: go through a subpoena. The phone company is not the
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Speaker 2: friend of police or prosecutors. You have to go through
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Speaker 2: a jump a lot of hurdles to get these phone records.
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Speaker 2: And then what do you do with those phone records
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Speaker 2: and the information you get from them.
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Speaker 5: Well, you're Arm's saying correct, they're not the friend of
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Speaker 5: law enforcement. A lot of the time do have to
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Speaker 5: force them to turn that information over. Of course, there's
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Speaker 5: a lot of privacy laws, but once you get those
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Speaker 5: phone records, you know, you essentially develop what's more or
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Speaker 5: less a spreadsheet and determine how often like you said,
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Speaker 5: they've called these people, what type of contact they've had,
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Speaker 5: how frequent it is, And that's so important because you know,
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Speaker 5: in a missing person's case or some other type of
19:21
Speaker 5: case like that, where you're looking for someone, you want
19:24
Speaker 5: to start with the people closest to them and speak
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Speaker 5: with those people first, the people who they've had the
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Speaker 5: most recent contact with, that they've had the most contact with,
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Speaker 5: including family and friends, and then work your way further
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Speaker 5: out of that circle.
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Speaker 2: Yeah. So often we say, what's taking so long? Well,
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Speaker 2: this is what's taking so long. Somebody vanishes into thin
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Speaker 2: air and you have to subpoena their phone documents and
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Speaker 2: then start structuring what was happening around the last time
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Speaker 2: they were seeing. Now we know that the mother goes
19:56
Speaker 2: to where her daughter's living, nobody there. She calls police,
20:02
Speaker 2: but the woman beth Elizabeth isbel is first reported by
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Speaker 2: her exported missing and frankly, doctor Bethany Marshall, when you
20:13
Speaker 2: have someone report the individual missing, that tends to indicate
20:19
Speaker 2: they didn't have anything to do with it.
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Speaker 8: Oh, Nancy, you're absolutely right. But occasionally there's the husband
20:25
Speaker 8: or the boyfriend who once they find out their partner's missing,
20:29
Speaker 8: and they failed to report. They're the ones that go
20:31
Speaker 8: out and hand out the flyers, walk around the neighborhood crying,
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Speaker 8: they go on air and say, oh, I'm trying to
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Speaker 8: find I'm trying to find Mary or Elizabeth or whoever.
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Speaker 8: And they're the ones who did it. So if it's
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Speaker 8: the perpetrator, they tend to jump in after the fact
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Speaker 8: in a very dramatic way. If it's somebody who's really
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Speaker 8: in a sense it has nothing to do with the crime,
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Speaker 8: they are the first ones to go forward, and they're
20:56
Speaker 8: usually the first ones to notice because in this case,
20:59
Speaker 8: this was her former husband. This was the father of
21:03
Speaker 8: that teenager whose mother didn't call on Christmas on his birthday,
21:10
Speaker 8: and they said she always called during very important holidays
21:15
Speaker 8: and seasons, and she was remarkably absent during those important times.
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Speaker 8: So they've felt the absence there that says, but this
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Speaker 8: man is not the perpetrator, clearly, And.
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Speaker 2: Of course talked to Michelle Daprie. You've seen a lot
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Speaker 2: of dead bodies, going to many mini homicide scenes and
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Speaker 2: conducting literally thousands of autopsies. And this is not based
21:40
Speaker 2: on statistics, this is anecdotal. I often see the husband
21:45
Speaker 2: of the boyfriend calling when they quote find the body,
21:50
Speaker 2: not when the person is missing and nobody's found the
21:52
Speaker 2: body yet, but when they find the body. Let's just
21:55
Speaker 2: talk about Murdoch again. He's the one that called nine
21:57
Speaker 2: one one when he quote found Maggie and his son
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Speaker 2: Paul dead. Of course he killed them. But when they
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Speaker 2: find the body, or ostensibly find the body, they call
22:10
Speaker 2: when the person is just missing. I don't see those
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Speaker 2: calls coming from the love interest as much.
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Speaker 10: Nancy. I think you're absolutely right. And you know, anytime
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Speaker 10: there is a suspicion of foul play, the husband or
22:23
Speaker 10: the wife or the boyfriend or girlfriend is always one
22:27
Speaker 10: of the first suspects, and whoever finds that person is
22:30
Speaker 10: always one of the first suspects as well, because that's
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Speaker 10: the way to keep themselves involved in the investigation and
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Speaker 10: try to throw off law enforcement.
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Speaker 2: Big red flag. When they get to Elizabeth's home, they
22:42
Speaker 2: find signs of a struggle. Listen to our friends at WHNT.
22:48
Speaker 12: Investigators gave us a good bit of insight today into
22:52
Speaker 12: how they got to this point in the case. It's brutal, yes,
22:57
Speaker 12: a lot of evil from the beginning. Chief and to
23:00
Speaker 12: Gator Nick Brown, says they felt something was wrong in
23:02
Speaker 12: the missing person's case of Mary Elizabeth is Boll.
23:06
Speaker 9: We recovered physical evidence from her home that showed signs
23:11
Speaker 9: that they struggle, and a we knew that at that
23:15
Speaker 9: time that it was a crime scene.
23:16
Speaker 2: Wow, you know it's a crime scene. You find signs
23:18
Speaker 2: of a struggle. But what did they find? Take a
23:21
Speaker 2: listen to our friend Nikel Williams.
23:23
Speaker 4: And you thuck had to get her body back.
23:27
Speaker 2: I'd rather he were love. But my feory is she's
23:31
Speaker 2: not seen anymore.
23:34
Speaker 3: A Debbie Wood says, police chants out to see cab County.
23:37
Speaker 2: Where is the lid?
23:39
Speaker 3: They found her driver's license and her social Security card,
23:42
Speaker 3: but not her If you know anything about where she
23:45
Speaker 3: might be called authorities.
23:47
Speaker 2: So where are you going to go in life as
23:49
Speaker 2: an adult without your driver's license or your social Security card?
23:54
Speaker 2: That's what they found, leading them to believe she went
23:58
Speaker 2: nowhere willingly. Plus they say they found evidence of a crime.
24:03
Speaker 2: So about asaf joining us WAFF forty eight, do we
24:06
Speaker 2: know what suggested a crime had been committed? What did
24:10
Speaker 2: they find in her own well?
24:11
Speaker 6: Yancy and my understanding this from the times that I've
24:15
Speaker 6: spoken to investigators. They investigated her residence where she was
24:19
Speaker 6: said to have been living at the time, and as
24:21
Speaker 6: well as the vehicle she was driving. You know, they
24:25
Speaker 6: described that they had found physical evidence. They would never,
24:29
Speaker 6: you know, disclose what that physical evidence was, but they
24:33
Speaker 6: did enter it into a database, came up with the matches.
24:37
Speaker 6: But from what investigators saw at her residence and in
24:42
Speaker 6: her vehicle, there were signs of a struggle. Quoting she's
24:47
Speaker 6: investigator Nick.
24:48
Speaker 2: Brown, signs of a struggle. But then as we were
24:51
Speaker 2: talking earlier about the ex husband, the father of the
24:56
Speaker 2: teen boy reporting Elizabeth missing, then all eyes began to
25:01
Speaker 2: focus on the new boyfriend. Take a listen to our
25:05
Speaker 2: friends at w AAY thirty one.
25:08
Speaker 3: Her mother says she was in a new but troubled relationship.
25:12
Speaker 4: They were always fighting and then it's like poof, he's gone.
25:19
Speaker 4: Don't know where he's at. I finally get to talk
25:23
Speaker 4: to him and he said, hey, I know she's missing.
25:25
Speaker 6: Now.
25:25
Speaker 3: Her only wish is that someone who knows anything will
25:29
Speaker 3: just come forward.
25:30
Speaker 2: A name of girl. Okay, that's not good when your
25:35
Speaker 2: boyfriend disappears right after you disappear. How many times Christopher
25:41
Speaker 2: Byer's former police chief, John's Creek. Have we seen that
25:45
Speaker 2: happen the boyfriend just disappears?
25:48
Speaker 11: Oh yeah, absolutely, it happens more time than that, And
25:52
Speaker 11: even the FBI would call that a clue that you
25:55
Speaker 11: need to start to circle in.
25:58
Speaker 2: Even the FBI, I would call that a clue.
26:01
Speaker 11: So yeah, it's time to start looking hard at him.
26:03
Speaker 2: But then, amazingly, he takes the call from Mary, Elizabeth
26:09
Speaker 2: Espell's mother and tell sir what she's missing. Okay, I
26:14
Speaker 2: don't believe that either. How could he not know the
26:18
Speaker 2: girlfriend is missing? But he did take the call, so
26:23
Speaker 2: he is reachable. But then out of the blue, a
26:28
Speaker 2: turn and the case listen to Emily Forrester, wh and T.
26:34
Speaker 12: For a year and a half, they tracked down leads,
26:37
Speaker 12: but nothing came to Fruition investigators said they got a
26:40
Speaker 12: new credible tip last Tuesday that matched some of their
26:43
Speaker 12: early findings.
26:45
Speaker 9: The tip that came in was some of the names
26:47
Speaker 9: I was looking at at that time, So that kind
26:50
Speaker 9: of re sparked a interest in those certain people.
26:52
Speaker 2: Well, right there, that tells me that the tip that
26:56
Speaker 2: they get a year over a year after or Elizabeth
27:01
Speaker 2: Estpell goes missing matches up. He says, people that they
27:06
Speaker 2: were looking at earlier. Does that mean somebody on that
27:09
Speaker 2: call list from her cell phone? Okay, take a listen
27:13
Speaker 2: again to w H and T.
27:14
Speaker 9: Once was very cooperative and helped us and to lead
27:18
Speaker 9: to Mary's remains where we recovered them Wednesday. They were
27:21
Speaker 9: actually confirmed today to be Mary Elizabeth and it's no
27:27
Speaker 9: better day than on her birthday.
27:29
Speaker 12: Brown says. It appears Isabel died from being thrown off
27:32
Speaker 12: a cliff in Little River Canyon National Park.
27:34
Speaker 2: Thrown off a cliff. Beth ispell is not missing. She's dead.
27:45
Speaker 2: Thrown off a cliff, you know Dr Bethany Marshall's taco
27:50
Speaker 2: Ally side of Beverly Hills. I've seen a lot of homicide,
27:53
Speaker 2: but it takes a certain let me just say, mindset
27:58
Speaker 2: to push somebody off a nity.
28:01
Speaker 8: This is so cool and heinous. I can't even find
28:05
Speaker 8: the words like, I'm just imagining whoever the perpetrator or
28:11
Speaker 8: perpetrators are uh apprehending this poor woman, kidnapping her, clutching her,
28:19
Speaker 8: picking her up, throwing her off the cliff. The rage
28:23
Speaker 8: that went into this. You know, we cover homicides where
28:26
Speaker 8: there are you know, multiple stabbings, where there are you
28:30
Speaker 8: know where women are are raped, choked, beaten, but thrown
28:34
Speaker 8: off a cliff takes a unique type of rage towards
28:40
Speaker 8: the victim exactly.
28:41
Speaker 2: Nancy, Wait, who is this Michelle Duprey?
28:44
Speaker 11: Yeah?
28:44
Speaker 2: Can you imagine her last moments?
28:48
Speaker 10: I cannot. And this is something very personal, mancy. You
28:50
Speaker 10: have to touch that person, and you know, you have
28:53
Speaker 10: to know that you are up close and personal. It's
28:56
Speaker 10: not like shooting a gun from a distance. This was
28:59
Speaker 10: very parsonal to push or shove someone off a cliff.
29:01
Speaker 2: I wonder if she was lured there, if she was
29:03
Speaker 2: forced there, How does she get to the top of
29:06
Speaker 2: a cliff to be shoved off? And how do we
29:10
Speaker 2: know she didn't slip at fall? Guys, now take a
29:15
Speaker 2: listen to this.
29:16
Speaker 12: Investigators made the first arrest in the case Sunday and
29:19
Speaker 12: announced the second suspect Friday.
29:21
Speaker 9: One of the co defendants was very cooperative and helped
29:24
Speaker 9: us and to lead to Mary's remains where we recovered
29:27
Speaker 9: them Wednesday.
29:28
Speaker 12: Several factors led them to charge the suspects with capital murder.
29:32
Speaker 9: This case meets the criteria not only by kidnapping, but
29:36
Speaker 9: by multiple other statutes that bring in the capitol so
29:42
Speaker 9: It's very unhuman, very human and brutal. What these ladies
29:50
Speaker 9: done to Mary.
29:51
Speaker 2: What these ladies, What these ladies did to Mary. Ladies,
30:01
Speaker 2: listen to our friends wh and t.
30:03
Speaker 12: A mother and daughter now facing capital murder charges and
30:06
Speaker 12: the death of a woman investigators believe was pushed off
30:09
Speaker 12: a cliff. The Dacab County Sheriff's Office says Mary Elizabeth
30:13
Speaker 12: Ibol has been missing since late twenty twenty one. Her
30:16
Speaker 12: remains were found two days ago in Little River Canyon
30:19
Speaker 12: National Park and identified today on what would have been
30:23
Speaker 12: her thirty ninth birthday. Two women are charged with capital
30:26
Speaker 12: murder in her death, now, Loretta Carr and Carr's daughter,
30:29
Speaker 12: jesse Eden Kelly.
30:30
Speaker 9: They are all acquaintances, mainly to a boyfriend, so I
30:37
Speaker 9: can't give too much details on that right now, but
30:39
Speaker 9: they all do come back to one specific person.
30:41
Speaker 13: Okay, crime stories with Nancy Grace, Please tell me, Savannah
31:02
Speaker 13: sap w Aff forty eight.
31:06
Speaker 2: That these two women, a mother and a daughter, did
31:11
Speaker 2: not push Elizabeth Ispell off a cliff over a man.
31:20
Speaker 6: According to River investigators, Nancy, they did. And it's interesting
31:26
Speaker 6: to me that you know one of the descendants is
31:30
Speaker 6: basically being very very cooperative with investigators, while the other
31:35
Speaker 6: is filing emotions in court saying there's not enough, there's
31:40
Speaker 6: not enough evidence to charge her. It's very interesting, you
31:45
Speaker 6: know that there's kind of two sides of this. They're
31:47
Speaker 6: both kind of petered against each other.
31:50
Speaker 2: So you've got one ratting out the other, and the
31:53
Speaker 2: two co defendants are mother and daughter. I mean, I've
31:58
Speaker 2: seen a lot to murder this gorgeous young mom by
32:05
Speaker 2: throwing her off a cliff over a man. No offense
32:09
Speaker 2: to the men on the panel right now, but I
32:12
Speaker 2: remember my grandmother on my father's side would say they're
32:17
Speaker 2: all alike, you know, they just look different. Plus I
32:21
Speaker 2: knew it will come along every fifteen minutes like a bus.
32:25
Speaker 2: So they commit murder in a heinous fashion over a man.
32:31
Speaker 2: Now the man has not been named yet by authorities.
32:37
Speaker 2: But I'm looking at a photo right now posted by
32:41
Speaker 2: the Elder car the mother, Loretta Ray Carr, aged forty three,
32:48
Speaker 2: posing at a national preserve with her then fiance Robert Mitcham.
32:55
Speaker 2: Not the actor. He appears to be much younger than her,
32:59
Speaker 2: and he has blue hair. Now, is this the guy
33:04
Speaker 2: that they were fighting about that they throw a young
33:07
Speaker 2: mother off a cliff over him. Is he the one?
33:12
Speaker 2: We don't know yet? But I'm looking at this photo
33:15
Speaker 2: of the mom car with this young guy, big smile,
33:20
Speaker 2: and there, interestingly at a national preserve. Then I'm looking
33:25
Speaker 2: at another photo of the mom car wearing the same shirt,
33:30
Speaker 2: which indicates to me the same day possibly, and lo
33:36
Speaker 2: and behold Savannah sap is Lorette K Carr posting a
33:40
Speaker 2: photo to Facebook. She did this to herself. I didn't
33:43
Speaker 2: go looking for it. It's right there. And she is
33:46
Speaker 2: at the spot where Elizabeth Eastpel's body was found. Hello,
33:54
Speaker 2: she's posting a shot of herself. It's a selfie and
33:58
Speaker 2: you can see this deep, deep cliff behind her, and
34:02
Speaker 2: she posted it on Facebook. Help me? Is this truth
34:06
Speaker 2: about us out?
34:06
Speaker 6: Yes? This is absolutely true. And when I stumbled across
34:10
Speaker 6: it doing my own investigative work, I just kind of
34:13
Speaker 6: had a hit in my stomach because even though these
34:16
Speaker 6: these thoughts were posted in the year twenty nineteen, about
34:19
Speaker 6: around two years before it's felt disappearance, it still gives
34:24
Speaker 6: you an eerie, almost disturbed feeling because it's a selfie,
34:29
Speaker 6: you know, car living her everyday life with you know,
34:34
Speaker 6: beautiful canyon behind her. But once you know the story
34:38
Speaker 6: and you know what what she is eventually accused of,
34:42
Speaker 6: it leaves a really almost creeped out feeling.
34:46
Speaker 2: I got a very creeped out feeling, and I'm looking
34:49
Speaker 2: at her in this young fiance and it leads me
34:52
Speaker 2: to think, now, this is just an educated guest. Everybody
34:56
Speaker 2: on the panel and wants you to jump in. It
34:58
Speaker 2: leads me to think that Loretta Ray Carr is the
35:02
Speaker 2: one involved with a man and she enlists her daughter
35:06
Speaker 2: Jesse Eden Kelly h twenty one to kill They quote
35:12
Speaker 2: other women. That other woman would be Mary Elizabeth isbel
35:17
Speaker 2: Wright because we know a mom and daughter duo are
35:22
Speaker 2: now charged with the murder of this young mom. Take
35:25
Speaker 2: a listen to Kila Smith WHNT.
35:28
Speaker 14: We are still working to get information about how investigators
35:31
Speaker 14: tied the suspect to the death of the victim, Mary
35:34
Speaker 14: Elizabeth I isbel Here's what we know from a criminal
35:37
Speaker 14: criminal complaint filed this week. The document shows Loretta Carr
35:41
Speaker 14: from Fort Payne is charged with capital murder. Jail records
35:45
Speaker 14: reveal Carr was booked into the Camp County Jail Sunday night.
35:48
Speaker 14: Carr is accused of abducting isbel in October of twenty
35:51
Speaker 14: twenty one.
35:52
Speaker 2: What exactly would that do to a body? Doctor dupree
35:57
Speaker 2: to die by being slung a cliff.
36:01
Speaker 10: When you're thrown over a cliff, you're going to have
36:02
Speaker 10: a lot of blunt force injuries, things like obviously broken bones, fractures,
36:08
Speaker 10: all sorts of things like that, pretty much all over
36:10
Speaker 10: your body, of course, depending on how far the drop is.
36:14
Speaker 2: I'm just imagining this beautiful young mom being murdered in
36:19
Speaker 2: this heinous fashion. Guys, we're talking about Mary Elizabeth estpell Wright.
36:27
Speaker 2: Her mother distraught trying to find her, where's my daughter?
36:32
Speaker 2: But the reality is her daughter was long dead, her
36:38
Speaker 2: crumpled and broken body at the bottom of a cliff and,
36:42
Speaker 2: according to police, pushed over the cliff by a mother
36:46
Speaker 2: daughter tag team angry that Estbell was dating their love object,
36:52
Speaker 2: one of their love objects. But it's not the first time,
36:55
Speaker 2: of course, that this has happened. Take a listen to
36:58
Speaker 2: hour cut twenty does a name Lisa Noak ring a Bell.
37:04
Speaker 2: She was with NASA, an astronaut.
37:07
Speaker 7: Listen before she drove from Houston to Orlando to intercept me.
37:10
Speaker 7: She hid her intentions and her whereabouts, I believe for
37:14
Speaker 7: the weekend.
37:14
Speaker 2: From her coworkers.
37:16
Speaker 7: She chose to drive one thousand mile distance rather than fly,
37:18
Speaker 7: which ensured no record of her trip. She covered her
37:21
Speaker 7: tracks by traveling under a fake name, wearing a disguise,
37:23
Speaker 7: and making minimal stops and using only cash. She brought
37:27
Speaker 7: with her a myriad of weapons, which one season detective
37:31
Speaker 7: had called a murder kit. Lisa Iak told police, but
37:33
Speaker 7: she planned to use the weapons that she brought with
37:36
Speaker 7: her to force me to sit with her.
37:38
Speaker 2: To sit with her, that's not exactly what Noak had
37:41
Speaker 2: in mind.
37:42
Speaker 7: To listen, she blasted me with what felt like acid.
37:45
Speaker 7: It burned my eyes, my nose, in my mouth, and
37:47
Speaker 7: it sucked the air out of me. I don't know
37:49
Speaker 7: what other weapons she had at the ready, because I
37:52
Speaker 7: didn't hang around to find out. I stomped on the
37:54
Speaker 7: gas and I wondered if there was a gun pointed.
37:56
Speaker 2: At my head.
37:57
Speaker 7: My eyes and throat were on fire, my lungs ached
37:59
Speaker 7: for I thought the urge to breathe in whatever poison
38:02
Speaker 7: it was that she had braved me with. I thought
38:04
Speaker 7: I had just escaped a car jacking, and I was
38:06
Speaker 7: sure that she had just tried to kill me to
38:08
Speaker 7: steal my car. I had no idea that a high ranking,
38:11
Speaker 7: high paid military officer had just attacked me. I believe
38:15
Speaker 7: I escaped a horrible death that night.
38:16
Speaker 2: You're hearing the victim in that case, Colleen Shipman, giving
38:20
Speaker 2: her victim impact statement about the attack made by her
38:25
Speaker 2: then boyfriend's former girlfriend. He drives all the way across
38:29
Speaker 2: the country to attack Colleen, But she's certainly not the
38:33
Speaker 2: only one. Does the name Caitlin Armstrong ring abel her
38:37
Speaker 2: victim Mariah Wilson. Take a list our cut twenty three,
38:41
Speaker 2: Fox seven, Austin.
38:42
Speaker 15: Caitlyn Armstrong wanted by the US Marshals for the murder
38:45
Speaker 15: of cyclist Mariah Wilson. Wilson was visiting from California and
38:49
Speaker 15: staying with a friend. She was in Austin ahead of
38:51
Speaker 15: a race in Hiko. Core paper say the night of
38:54
Speaker 15: the murder, Wilson went for a swim at deep Eddie
38:56
Speaker 15: Pool with Colin Strickland, another cyclist, Then they went to
39:00
Speaker 15: Poolberger before Strickland dropped her off at her friend's house.
39:04
Speaker 15: Documents say Strickland and Armstrong were in a relationship before
39:07
Speaker 15: briefly ending it for a couple of weeks last year.
39:10
Speaker 15: At the time he was involved with Wilson.
39:12
Speaker 2: So now Mariah Wilson is dead World champ cyclist in
39:18
Speaker 2: her twenties, her life and in front of her. Of course
39:20
Speaker 2: she's not the only one. Take a list. Now we're
39:23
Speaker 2: cut nineteen Fox to Detroit.
39:25
Speaker 16: Twenty six year old Chinania Williamson saw her baby's father
39:29
Speaker 16: in a car with another woman. He also got pregnant again.
39:33
Speaker 16: The two women, according to authorities, are pregnant at the
39:36
Speaker 16: same time by the same man.
39:39
Speaker 2: Her boyfriend or ex the relationship.
39:41
Speaker 16: Status to somewhat unclear, gets out of the vehicle and
39:44
Speaker 16: is arguing with Williamson, and that's when she allegedly fires
39:48
Speaker 16: into the other car, hitting the other pregnant woman in
39:51
Speaker 16: the leg. But we're told that woman is going to
39:54
Speaker 16: be okay. She drove herself to the hospital.
39:56
Speaker 2: You know, Doctor Bethany Marshall and anybody on the panel
39:59
Speaker 2: please jump in. The first of all, murder, but the
40:04
Speaker 2: mode of murder, pushing Espell Elizabeth Espell off a cliff
40:09
Speaker 2: to her death. Did they lure her there? Did they
40:12
Speaker 2: force her there? I don't know the answer of that.
40:15
Speaker 2: But over a man number one, A cheating man, apparently
40:20
Speaker 2: because it seems like it was having a relationship with
40:23
Speaker 2: two women. It was, But who cares. I'm not the
40:25
Speaker 2: church lady. I don't care who's sleeping with who, but
40:28
Speaker 2: not only to do it, but to enlist your daughter
40:32
Speaker 2: or your mom to commit murder and that person going
40:36
Speaker 2: along with it. Who are these two minions from hell?
40:39
Speaker 8: You? Nancy? When I first read or heard that it
40:42
Speaker 8: was a mother daughter duo, I thought, this has to
40:45
Speaker 8: be over a man. It has to be over jealousy
40:49
Speaker 8: of some sort. And I would imagine this mother daughter
40:53
Speaker 8: duo had a long history applauding and planning against anybody
41:00
Speaker 8: who interfered with their feelings of importance in the world.
41:03
Speaker 8: Wasn't there another case where a girl failed to become
41:07
Speaker 8: a cheerleader and they went after the coach the mother's
41:10
Speaker 8: daughter a team did I'm trying to remember that story,
41:13
Speaker 8: but right that was a well known one made into
41:18
Speaker 8: a film. But jealousy and envy are the strongest emotions
41:25
Speaker 8: and often negative emotions that a person can face. They
41:29
Speaker 8: come from very early in life. They're very infantile, and
41:33
Speaker 8: most crimes are motivated by jealousy or envy. Envy you
41:37
Speaker 8: have something, I want someone to take it from you.
41:39
Speaker 8: That's deft jealousy. Somebody I want is interested in you
41:45
Speaker 8: rather than me, So I'm just gonna snuff you out.
41:48
Speaker 8: And the way that this mother daughter duo threw Beth
41:53
Speaker 8: over the cliff, I mean the terror she felt as
41:56
Speaker 8: she was falling to her death, and that's selfy that
41:59
Speaker 8: the perfect trader took. I mean, I want the listeners
42:02
Speaker 8: to try to look it up and see it go
42:04
Speaker 8: on the crime online website, because it's not just the selfie.
42:07
Speaker 8: She has her head cocked back so that what's in
42:11
Speaker 8: the back of the selfie is the precipitous decline of
42:16
Speaker 8: the cliffs. You can see where Beth fell to her death.
42:19
Speaker 8: I mean she's really triumphing over the victim there.
42:23
Speaker 2: Who is the man they were fighting about? Don't know?
42:29
Speaker 2: Were people sleeping around, don't know. But I can tell
42:31
Speaker 2: you this much. If my husband, David Lynch, cheats, she
42:35
Speaker 2: can have him. I'll send him to you cod cash
42:39
Speaker 2: on delivery. You're paying the fright lady. I don't want
42:42
Speaker 2: him back. I'll find somebody that can be true. So
42:46
Speaker 2: far there's been no hint of cheating, but I can
42:49
Speaker 2: tell you this much. Don't commit murder over a man
42:55
Speaker 2: or a woman. All their lives are altered forever over
43:02
Speaker 2: what an Alabama woman suspected of pushing a missing mom
43:08
Speaker 2: off a cliff to her death and enlisting her daughter
43:13
Speaker 2: as a hench person. We waked as just as unfolds. Goodbye, friend,