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Consumers Reports: The Most Interesting Episode In The World · BREAK/FIX the Motorsports & Vehicle Enthusiast Variety Show

0:00
John Summers is the motoring historian.
0:02
He was a company car thrashing technology sales rep that turned into a fairly inept
0:07
sports bike rider hailing from California.
0:10
He collects cars and bikes built with plenty of cheap and
0:12
fast and not much reliable.
0:15
On his show, he gets together with various co-hosts to talk about new
0:18
and old cars driving motorbikes, motor racing, and motoring travel.
0:58
Good day.
0:59
Good morning, good afternoon.
1:01
It is John Samuels, the motoring historian.
1:03
I'm creatively torn listener, creatively torn as sunder.
1:10
Do I do this?
1:12
Boring episode about the Consumer reports zoom session that I sat in.
1:17
Do you give a crap whether Lexus is above Honda in the overall
1:22
customer satisfaction stake?
1:25
Probably not if you've been listening to my pod up to now, but I wanna be useful.
1:29
I wanna be of value.
1:31
To a consumer.
1:32
I mean, my wife in this last week just has had to buy a new car for a new job, longer
1:38
commute, different kind of requirements.
1:40
Guess the B two BMW's not gonna be able to wear 15,000 miles a year.
1:45
Probably.
1:45
It isn't, is it not given?
1:47
It's now got 160, so Consumer Reports has its place and then it was like, you know,
1:53
you should try and make it interesting.
1:54
So I don't know if I, if this isn't gonna be interesting or not.
1:58
I still think it's boring and I always worry that if you, as the
2:00
storyteller think the story's boring, it probably is boring.
2:07
The presenter was this chap Alex Niec, Kizza Kizza.
2:12
K-N-I-Z-K.
2:13
He is a good presenter, actually, younger fellow than me, much
2:16
more serious fellow than me.
2:18
They buy 36 cars each year.
2:21
There've been 90 years of consumer reports.
2:24
Now they're a nonprofit and they have a campus that's 330 acres.
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Or six miles of roads in Colchester, Connecticut.
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They buy tires, they buy child seats, and you know, all of that
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kind of accessory jazz as well.
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And test all that stuff too.
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35 employees, allegedly car enthusiasts.
2:46
Who knows?
2:47
Maybe they are, maybe they're the same as that.
2:49
McKinsey fellow, the software defined car one.
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I'll add a link.
2:53
Who said he was a car enthusiast?
2:55
And then excitedly talked about dein inventing cars.
2:58
I'm suspicious now of these corporate types who tell me their car enthusiasts.
3:03
They say they drive 500,000 miles in a year.
3:06
They say they don't just like buy the new RAV4 to test it.
3:11
They will own comparison vehicles as well.
3:14
So it's a comparative measure rather than a static measure.
3:19
Um, I think that was the point that he was trying to make.
3:22
He said they're known for the ELK test swerve.
3:25
So this guy's, for those of you who, uh, don't remember the explorers rolling over
3:31
and fought, falling out, or the elk test, which I think was some Swedish test.
3:36
Either way, this is, this imagines an elk or some other creature has stepped
3:40
down in front of you and you step on the brakes and steer at the same time.
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That's the important part of this.
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You are steering and stepping on the brakes.
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I, I know, right?
3:50
You are.
3:51
You are rolling your eyes and being like numpty.
3:53
Right?
3:54
But this has led to SUVs particularly to roll over.
3:59
That's why for some, I mean, it's been years now, the ESPs
4:03
mandated on, on American vehicles.
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I mean, you would've thought, right, when they were having these
4:08
rollover things, that would've been the sign to say, you know what?
4:11
These up high vehicles, like, let's just.
4:14
Get down low again and make them more efficient.
4:17
But no, that's not the world that we live in.
4:19
ESP is mandated, so now they have electric trickery to stop them tripping over
4:25
themselves if you steer and break at the same time as trying to swerve around
4:30
the imaginary, uh, the imaginary elk.
4:33
Anyway, apparently this is what consumer reports were known for.
4:36
The subjective stuff they do by jury.
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They measure stuff where it's possible to measure it.
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There's a consumer reports online, there's still a paper magazine,
4:46
and they do a YouTube and a podcast makes you think about what a
4:50
competitive environment they're in.
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Now really doesn't it because uh, there's so many other people doing
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that and they're now in competition.
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They used to just be in competition with other magazines on the rack, but
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now they're in competition with all of these other kind of multimedia outlets.
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You know, their brand is what's gonna carry them.
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So they do these top 10 picks.
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So they road test, they look for reliability.
5:20
They look at owner satisfaction and they do that through a
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consumer reports member survey.
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And the stat ratty fella, he had some stats and I didn't, I
5:31
don't think I wrote this down.
5:32
Maybe I did later on, but I was pretty impressed by the size
5:35
of the sample that they had.
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You know, 35 employees makes it seem quite small, but actually.
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The brand, the 330 acres, the 90 years, that more accurately reflects
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I think where they're, where they're coming from and, and then the other
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thing that they look at is safety.
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So those are the, their four criteria, the road test, reliability,
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owner satisfaction, and safety.
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I.
6:01
I got a screen cap of the top 10, but since you might be listening to this and
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driving and not able to go and look at the link, I'm gonna go look at the photo
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myself and tell you who's number one.
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He pointed out that the whole of the top 10.
6:14
Were either hybrids or EVs, but he said that wasn't because
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they were hybrids or EVs.
6:20
He said it was because they were like Hondas or Toyotas and Hondas or
6:25
Toyotas have the best reliability and they just happened to make the hybrid.
6:29
Alright, so the first of these uh, tables looked at reliability ratings
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for vehicles that were five to 10 years old and they were stack ranked thusly.
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Number one, Lexus.
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Number two.
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Toyota.
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Number three.
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Mazda.
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Number four.
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Honda Number five.
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Acura.
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Let's pause a moment because sir or lady.
7:02
I put it to you that I think you need to think very carefully when
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shopping with your own money for a car that just needs to do the job and
7:11
not break down, and then you can flip it on without losing too much money.
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And when it does need stuff, it's easy to find a mechanic and he
7:20
doesn't charge an arm and a leg.
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And the parts don't cost an arm and a leg, and you don't need to take the
7:24
whole car apart in order to fix it.
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Audi not thinking about you.
7:28
So that's the two Toyota brands with the premium one doing better, Mazda
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and Interloper, who would've thunk it?
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And then Honda and an Acura rounding out the top five there.
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And this is vehicles five to 10 years old.
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So this guys, if you've got 10, 15, 20 grand that you are spending, that
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is your stat ranking of reliability.
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So actually that's meaningful, isn't it?
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Maybe this isn't so boring after all.
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Let's look at number six to 10 BMW Buick Nissan.
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Audi.
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Volvo, number 11, Mercedes Subaru, Volkswagen, Lincoln
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Mini and number 16.
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Cadillac and now running up towards the bottom.
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Number 26.
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We had Cadillac at number 16, Hyundai and number 17 Chevrolet at number 18 Ford
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19 Dodge 20 Kia 21 GMC 22 Chrysler 23.
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Ram 24, Jeep 25, and bringing up the rear for reliability.
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The Musk mobile itself, the Tesla,
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at the risk of stating the obvious.
9:01
The longer a model is round, the more its reliability improves.
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So if you are buying a year one or year two of that model, and that model has
9:12
some radical new technology on it, or it's just a straight ahead new model,
9:17
it's not that you have to expect teething problems, but you have to recognize that
9:21
these are very, very complex products.
9:25
So I spoke about my wife buying her, buying a new car.
9:28
She did.
9:29
It was new, but it had sat around long enough that it
9:34
had missed a software update.
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So when she was due to pick it up, it got its software knickers in a twist
9:41
and needed like a trickle charge or like it needed some quiet time overnight.
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This is what the salesman said.
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Just imagine how this played.
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You can drive it away, but the screen's gonna be black.
9:54
That's right.
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Just that it functions as a car.
9:58
Without all of the entertainment screens that I thought was interesting, you
10:04
know, 'cause it's like if you've been away on vacation and you've left your
10:07
PC off at home and maybe you've missed a couple of, you know, Microsoft Tuesday
10:13
software patches or something like that.
10:15
The machine can, sometimes, if you have an older machine, it can sometimes
10:18
get its nick in a twist and need to be reboot it a couple of times, can't it?
10:23
So my sense was it, it had that kind of experience.
10:27
So should just interject that the car that she bought, the 2026
10:31
Cadillac Optic, I should say she the deals Vly, talk about numbers.
10:37
Strikingly.
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Good deal.
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It made me wonder why I mess around with bangers when you can
10:41
have the latest technology for.
10:42
You know, pretty good price or be it, you don't have anything to show
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for it after two years, but you know, she can charge you for free at work.
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So the use case is obvious, right?
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You either pay for gas or, or you don't.
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So looking at new cars, the 2026 brand report card rankings, who,
11:04
who makes the best cars basically are as followed, number one.
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Subaru number two BMW, number three, Porsche number four, Honda number five.
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Toyota Number six, Lexus.
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Number seven, Lincoln.
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Number eight, Hyundai.
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Number nine, Acura number 10.
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Tesla.
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Number 11, mini.
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Number 12 Kia.
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Number 13, Nissan.
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Number 14, Mazda number 15.
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Genesis number 16, Audi.
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Number 17, Cadillac 18 Ford Mitsubishi.
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Buick.
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Volvo.
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Volkswagen, Mercedes-Benz Chevrolet.
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Chrysler Rivian, alpha Mayo Dodge, GMC, land Rover.
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And at 31 with the lowest overall score.
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Jeep,
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they talked a bit about how their online presence was, you know,
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regularly updated with new topics.
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They talked about this concept of the safety verdict, which is a, a
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way to combine lots of information together into an easily good, better,
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best kind of safety ranking thing.
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I mean those two lists.
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I read out the contrast between reliability at five years and who
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makes the best cars based upon consumer reports, own scoring.
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There's quite an interesting contrast there, isn't there?
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Looking at.
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Reliability and owner satisfaction.
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They use the owner survey to derive those kind of of figures.
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I did write down how many surveys they did.
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You know how large the sample size is?
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380,000 surveys were completed last year, and there's more that get done every year.
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Who has time to do these surveys?
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You know, it's a little bit like the only person who's got time to do the
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surveys is some complaining ass wipe, or somebody who's, you know, some
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anally retentive person who's gonna have completely unrealistic expectations.
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So I, I'm taking it with a grain of salt.
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You know, our four may have got a shout out there towards the bottom of, of a
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table for new car competence or customer satisfaction or, or anything like that.
13:34
It's one of the greatest regrets, I think.
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My greatest regrets.
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That sounds like, you know, I'd like, I wish I'd been
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there to father my child, but.
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Right.
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It's not a great regret like that, but I wish I'd listened
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less to what car years ago?
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'cause what car would score stuff and you know the Ford would always
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do better than the Alpha Mayo and the BMW and the Mercedes would
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always do better than the Alpha Mayo.
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Even though your heart said the alpha Mayo, your head always said that the BMW
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and your wallet always said the Ford.
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And that was why you always ended up with the blue oval and this hubner.
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And you people who like Austin Rovers, this is what you.
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Don't understand is that was the rubric through the second half of
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the 20th century was that if you were fixing it yourself, you wanted to be
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able to go to the Ford dealership or the scrapyard and get a part easily.
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You know what, they were actually good to drive.
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Fords always were better to drive differently than Rovers or
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Austin's or Morris's and them Vox.
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That's why Hubner and the doubting Thomas is there is such a following
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for fast forwards because I tell you, you bought the Ford, you wished
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you'd had the money for the BMW.
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Looking back, I wish I'd had the balls to do old alpha
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Mayos, and this is my objection.
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It is not about point scoring with these things.
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It's about what gives you.
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Satisfaction.
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In fact.
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To that end, I'm gonna jump forward to a really interesting thing that pulled
15:06
out of this was that you, you notice that Rivian ranked pretty low there
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for overall, like how good is the car according to consumer Reports measures.
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But they had one report that showed.
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It's like bottom for actual reliability, but top for customer satisfaction.
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In other words, there's this sort of contrast between how it actually
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performs and how people feel about it immediately after they've acquired
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it and owned it and are able to show it off to their neighbors.
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They have, you know, NSA style verbatim quotes to allow people
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to have like a proper drill down.
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So I thought this was quite interesting was when I was writing for vehicle
15:52
history, you would always look, you know, there'd always be a question.
15:57
The title that you were writing under was something like, you know, Kia Engines
16:01
reliability, or, you know, key Optima, good, bad or indifferent kind of thing.
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That was the title that you were writing under.
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In order to get good information, you would have to go into the
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National Highways Agency website.
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And in there there's lots of different complaints, so you can actually
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look at what people have found.
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It has been an issue with certain cars, and I used to do that in order to be able
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to lift verbatim quotes from, you know, actual reports that people have submitted
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about problems they'd had with their car.
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I would lift these quotes straight into the articles I
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was writing for vehicle history.
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Well, the consumer Reports guys give you the same scope to do that.
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You can like drill into individual reports to see what people have, have said.
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So.
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I mean, bravo for the granularity.
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In terms of some interesting insights, hybrids have 15%
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fewer issues than ice cars.
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Plugins have 80% more issues than hybrids.
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I mean, I've actually gone as far to write down that plugins are a bad technology.
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With almost double the issues.
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I mean, maybe I still think it's gonna work for my wife's application, which
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is sitting on the highway for ages and gassing up for free at the office.
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I mean, why would you if you've got a commute where you can
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gas up for free at the office?
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The BMW three 30 E hybrid, she looked at that bastard thing, was barely
17:41
gonna get 40 miles to the gallon and it was gonna be all out of electricity
17:44
before she was even to work, let alone by the time you got, she's got home.
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This thing, if she does it right, she need never pay to fill it up.
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We don't even need to pay to fill it up with electricity at home 'cause she can
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just charge it for free out the office.
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There may be issues with it.
18:00
We'll see how it takes these over the airwaves upgrades.
18:03
It's a Cadillac optic, by the way, which is like the same as the lyric underneath.
18:09
You are a bit worried about the General Motors reliability, if I'm
18:12
completely honest, but you know, it's nice inside white leather.
18:16
Nice inside.
18:17
I guess the last year's one I had like 350 foot pounds of torque.
18:21
This one's got 500 foot pounds of torque.
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I mean, it's like o on ramps.
18:26
It's like a fucking tsunami.
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I've not driven it yet, but my wife's gotten pretty heavy right foot, and
18:31
she's kind of gotten used to it.
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Hybrids have 15% fewer issues than ice vehicles.
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This might well be because Toyota do hybrids, whereas Chrysler do ice vehicles.
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So it's not that ice vehicles are less reliable than hybrids per se, it's just
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look at who's building them, right?
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All those charges and challenges and ram.
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Classics, not so much.
18:57
All those Camrys and Priuses, they're just reliably ling on
19:02
down the road, aren't they?
19:04
Gosh, Toyota, we love to hate you, but we owe the pickup truck and it's done
19:10
220,000 miles and it's not gone wrong.
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Yeah, I was gripping the wooden table there, but Toyota's gonna a Toyota.
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So for new car reliability.
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The stat ranking is one Toyota, two, Suby, three, Lexus four, Honda
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five BMW, six Nissan, seven Acura, eight Buick, nine Tesla, 10 Kia.
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11 Ford, 12 Hyundai and 13 Audi, so that's new car reliability.
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Honda, apparently were dragged down by just one model and that model is the
19:54
prologue, which was a platform that they developed jointly with General Motors.
19:59
What we're saying there is that if you are buying a different kind of Honda,
20:02
it's probably as good as you know, the other stuff just, you just need to be
20:06
aware of where platforms are being shared.
20:09
I, I wonder if.
20:10
This Cadillac platform will trickle down to other vehicles.
20:15
That one platform lyric, platform, the optics, the little one, and then there's
20:20
like a three row Tahoe motherfucker called the Vasic or giant shit or something.
20:28
I don't.
20:32
Rivian lasts for reliability.
20:34
That was powertrain and build issues, but despite that, number
20:39
one for owner satisfaction.
20:41
So despite issues with the BVX three, like the electric
20:45
ev, BM, BMW's pretty reliable.
20:48
Tesla's steadily improving and so much better than they were five years ago.
20:53
Mazda has been dragged down by a single model.
20:57
Again, it was the CX 90 and that was so revolutionary when
21:02
it was launched that that has compromised reliability, isn't it?
21:06
Rear wheel drive or something?
21:08
I think it's rear wheel drive.
21:09
It's a really like interesting thing.
21:11
Mazda are doing interesting things.
21:13
Look at Mazda, if you're shopping for new.
21:15
My, my wife's never gonna buy a Mazda, but I would look at Mazda.
21:19
If I had to buy a three row SUV, I'd have a, I think I'd
21:22
have a Mazda before a Porsche.
21:23
Now with a, a Porsche is like a gussied up Audi nowadays, isn't it?
21:29
They've developed a AI tool that's asked consumer reports where
21:35
it's, you know, an AI tool that's been trained on their data set.
21:38
I want to really have that, if that was an AI tool or if that
21:41
was just a, a search engine.
21:43
Interesting.
21:44
I mean, how much.
21:45
There doesn't seem enough data to be training in ai, really,
21:48
but I mean, whatever, right?
21:50
Everyone has to say AI now, don't they?
21:52
And even if it's just a crappy chat bot.
21:57
We try and buy mainstream models that are most representative of
22:01
what most consumers are gonna buy.
22:03
The vehicles are titled Under Consumer Reports, but we go into dealerships
22:08
with our families as independent people and try not to tell the dealers
22:13
until the very last minute that this vehicle's being sold to consumer Reports.
22:18
This must be quite fun doing that, don't you think?
22:23
With all the ADAS stuff, they've developed a whole suite of real
22:29
world testing and track testing, which they feel like delivers maximum
22:35
veracity for the effectiveness of, you know, the, the A DAS system.
22:40
And, and I should say this is definitely a big part of car buying now.
22:46
My wife has come from a oh four BMW 3, 2 5, automatic no screen for her.
22:53
The whole notion of she didn't know what the acronym stood for, and then
22:57
she was schooling me on the way the different systems work and on what
23:01
she wanted to use and on what she liked and on what she didn't like.
23:04
So by the time she was actually going to dealerships, she could compellingly say
23:10
the BMW didn't excite me, the Mercedes.
23:13
Well, you know, the EQE was too old man.
23:16
The CLA, I'd have felt like a teenybopper.
23:19
I don't know this caddy, I mean, it was a better price for, so the knockout
23:24
feature for her is Super Cruise, right?
23:26
That you can just, uh, above 60 miles an hour, it'll drive itself.
23:30
And more than that, if you give it navigation, if it can stay above 60
23:34
miles an hour, not only will it change lanes if a slower car pulls out in front
23:39
or something like that, it will even.
23:41
Get off one road onto another one, like change lanes and all of that.
23:46
If it can maintain the speed all itself without you touching the wheel, as
23:50
long as you are looking, it'll do it.
23:52
It probably doesn't sound if you're listening to this in 2026.
23:55
Now, if you're listening to this in like 2028 or 2030 or 2033, this, this is gonna
24:01
seem so old fashioned, but this is partly why I'm doing this because you know, for
24:06
her, she never used cruise control before.
24:08
The concept that the car can do it all completely drive itself, that was
24:13
exactly what she wanted to step into.
24:15
Now, the crowds have a system where the car really will drive
24:19
itself below 40 miles an hour.
24:21
So in stop, start annoying traffic, it drives, and then when the traffic
24:25
clears and you can get the hammer down.
24:27
It lets you take over again, which of course is exactly the way
24:31
that you would expect the Germans and especially BMW to do it.
24:34
'cause that's the way that I would have the system while I'm
24:37
going fast, I wanna drive when I'm going slow and it's annoying.
24:40
It can fucking drive.
24:41
You know that.
24:41
That's exactly the, and indeed.
24:44
The Gemini AI that my wife was using to help her choose what to get, that
24:49
the AI very much did say, you know, the BMW is the driver's choice, but it was
24:55
glum inside and a shit ton of money, and she just wasn't excited by it.
24:58
And the sales person didn't appear to take her seriously, and I
25:02
can't believe they missed a trick.
25:03
Really.
25:03
They lost a customer there because, uh, they didn't really
25:06
put forward their best product.
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Reliability by powertrain.
25:12
Um, the EV problem types, uh, bill quality, things like body hardware,
25:18
accessories, paint, trim noise and leaks.
25:21
And that would be, you know, rivian had door and tailgate problems.
25:24
The cyber truck was noticeably bad for all of those kind of
25:28
fit and finish kind of things.
25:30
Who knew a Tesla bad for fit and finish?
25:32
Wow.
25:33
Who knew?
25:34
I kind of really want one of those early cyber truck, the more ugly,
25:39
duckling, weird white elephant they get.
25:42
When, when you see one where there's corrosion on the stainless, that's
25:48
when I'm gonna wanna buy one.
25:49
The climate system played up on the lyric and on the blazer and on the
25:54
prologue, they're the same car and on the ID four and on the rivian.
25:59
Let me just see what other screen caps I got here that were interesting.
26:03
Ev, battery issues requiring battery placements.
26:06
Lyric, blazer, prologue V nine, Genesis GV 60 ID four.
26:12
EV charging issues.
26:13
The on onboard inverter taking a shit.
26:16
I think that's the technical term.
26:18
Ionic five IX six EV six EV nine.
26:21
Genesis GV 60 D Rivian.
26:24
Anybody doing a BEV is doing a shitty job around reliability, but then
26:29
you'd sort of expect that for a first generation product, wouldn't you?
26:33
So this is why hybrids have the best reliability, right?
26:35
Because this Honda of build been building them and you know they've been doing
26:39
it forever and they've raced them on forever, and the shit works really well.
26:43
Now
26:46
pure stat ranking for safety will give you Mazda Genesis Acura, Lincoln Hyundai.
26:54
Honda Nissan, Audi, Subaru, Kia.
26:59
Buick, Volvo, Volkswagen, Toyota, Lexus.
27:03
Mercedes.
27:03
BMW.
27:04
Cadillac Chevrolet, Ford, GMC.
27:07
Chrysler Mini Porsche, Rivian, Tesla, Mitsubishi, Jeep, and Land Rover.
27:14
That was safety.
27:16
Land Rovers shit, aren't they?
27:17
They really are.
27:18
Can I say that as I'm British?
27:20
Should I not say it?
27:21
Since they're now an Indian company, it's, it's sad that British cars are
27:26
as Land Rover once associated with like the benchmark for reliability, like how
27:31
the mighty have fallen or, or whatever.
27:37
All right.
27:37
To wrap up, this is their top 10 picks.
27:41
Best small car, civic, best mid-sized.
27:45
Camry Best Subcompact, SUV Subie Crosstrek.
27:49
Best Compact, SUV Subie Forrester.
27:53
Best mid-size SUV Toyota Grand Highlander.
27:57
I think that's a three row one.
27:58
One of my wife's friends bought one.
28:01
Best compact luxury SUV, the Lexus nx Best luxury mid-sized S-U-V-B-M-W-X five.
28:09
Best small pickup, Ford Maverick.
28:12
Best full-size pickup, F-150.
28:15
Best ev Tesla Model Y. So the screen thing, everything through
28:21
the screen plus the Nancy politics.
28:25
I think that put my wife off Teslas, if I'm completely honest.
28:29
I would've had a hard time looking at one on the drive, if
28:32
I'm completely honest about it.
28:33
And I'll hold up my hand and say, when she was looking at the
28:36
Germans, uh, she just said to me.
28:38
Do you think I should look at anything else?
28:40
And I was like, I have heard good things about the lyric.
28:43
It was hovi that ridiculous new wife of his who is absurd.
28:47
But somehow I just love her anyway.
28:50
And I love them together.
28:51
So, Hovi, thank you for your advice.
28:53
On on, on the lyric.
28:55
On that note, thank you.
28:56
Drive through.
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