Latest / Common Mystics / 143: More Voices from the Road- The Witch Trial of Susannah Martin

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143: More Voices from the Road- The Witch Trial of Susannah Martin · Common Mystics

• 0:10
  Speaker A: On this episode of Common Mystics, we discover a surprising connection to the infamous Salem witch trials of 1692. I'm Jennifer James.
• 0:24
  Speaker B: I'm Jill Stanley.
• 0:25
  Speaker A: We're psychics.
• 0:26
  Speaker B: We're sisters.
• 0:27
  Speaker A: We are common mystics. We find extraordinary stories in ordinary places. Today's story is about the witch trial of Susanna Martin.
• 0:37
  Speaker B: Jennifer?
• 0:38
  Speaker A: Yes, Jill.
• 0:40
  Speaker B: You guys out there in the world, you know what we do. You know what we do? I hope you know what we do. We've been doing this for a while. We travel around the country being led by our psychic abilities to find verifiable stories that allow us to give voice to the voiceless. But sometimes, sometimes when we're going through and researching our hits, we discover another voiceless that we feel compelled to give a voice to. And that, our friends, is what brought us to this story today.
• 1:10
  Speaker A: Remind our listeners where we were in Michigan when we happened upon this. The connection to this story.
• 1:20
  Speaker B: Well, of course we man napped Ed.
• 1:23
  Speaker A: He was such a good sport.
• 1:26
  Speaker B: He is one of our tier four patrons. And we warn you, if you go off air silent, we may just show up and kidnap you and take you to find a story. And that's what we did to poor Ed. So we set our intention in the car. Jen, what was our intention?
• 1:41
  Speaker A: It was what it always is, which is to find a verifiable story previously unknown to us that allows us to give voice to the voiceless.
• 1:49
  Speaker B: That's right. And we end up in Imlay City with Ed, as you know from our last episode. And the weird thing about it is, is that we were getting witchcraft witch vibes, like, weirdly around town, which didn't make any sense. It did not make any sense. But it. But what we saw, like from afar, was a woman that looked like she was a witch on a broomstick.
• 2:12
  Speaker A: And all three of us, all three of us were like, why is there a witch on a broomstick painted on the side of this building?
• 2:18
  Speaker B: And as it turns out, as we're walking towards the building and we're looking at it with squinted eyes and it's a scantily clad fire woman going down a fire pole. It is not a witch at all. But we were so convinced that that was a witch.
• 2:33
  Speaker A: Correct.
• 2:34
  Speaker B: Very weird. Some of the houses in town were decorated for Halloween, but It was like August 30th that day, so that was a little premature too. And one of the houses came complete with a witches in sign. So we were definitely feeling like witches, witch trial, all that jazz. When we were going through Imlay City but didn't know why.
• 2:55
  Speaker A: Right. All three of us were saying the same thing, like definite witchy vibes. Correct.
• 3:00
  Speaker B: So some of our hits, I was saying witchcraft or sorcery being practiced.
• 3:05
  Speaker A: Right. And if you recall from our last episode, I was all about a family name being significant.
• 3:12
  Speaker B: That's right. So, as you know, for our detours episode for 142, we were gonna look up Witches of Imlay City.
• 3:21
  Speaker A: Correct.
• 3:21
  Speaker B: So, Jen, you type in Witches of Emily City, and what happens?
• 3:26
  Speaker A: Well, the first thing that pops up on the Google is an article called, with this title, Almont's Connection to the Salem Witch Trials by Jim Wade from October 27, 2021.
• 3:44
  Speaker B: Give me some context. Where is Almont in. In relation to Emily City?
• 3:49
  Speaker A: Right. Almont is a village less than eight miles south of EML City in. Probably drove right through it on our way from Detroit.
• 3:58
  Speaker B: It's true. I think we probably came right through it on our way back.
• 4:01
  Speaker A: Okay.
• 4:02
  Speaker B: To dropping off Ed, but what are some highlights from the article that you want to go over that's going to compel us to look at the witch trials?
• 4:11
  Speaker A: Well, we read the article that came up, and it talks about a woman named Susan Militello who was looking for information on her grandfather. So this is kind of a article about genealogy of the area, and so it discusses her grandfather, Frank Woodring. And throughout the article, they talk about Frank Woodring and his work in the area. He had a hardware store, and at some point, he became the village mayor. But the article went on to discuss Frank's fifth great grandfather by the name of Jarvis Ring. And Jarvis Ring was born in February 1657 in Salisbury, Massachusetts. Jarvis would die there on December 1, 16, 1727. And significantly, Jarvis in 1692, was a witness at the Salem witch trial for a woman named Susanna Martin, which resulted in the death of this innocent woman.
• 5:34
  Speaker B: Now, Jen, why did any of this information draw our attention?
• 5:39
  Speaker A: Well, Jill, I'm so glad you asked, because as soon as we saw that Frank's fifth grandfather was a man named Jarvis Ring, you and I both knew we had to tell this story because our maiden name happens to be Jarvis.
• 5:57
  Speaker B: That's right. We're Jarvis girls.
• 5:58
  Speaker A: We are Jarvis girls through and through.
• 6:01
  Speaker B: That is the truth. And so what you wanted me specifically to look at and to do research on was Susanna Martin. And you were like, whoa, what did this guy witness? Right, right.
• 6:13
  Speaker A: Exactly. Exactly.
• 6:14
  Speaker B: So that's what I did. Can you take us back to the Salem witch trials and maybe give some context for some of our listeners? Around the world.
• 6:22
  Speaker A: Absolutely. And you know what, Jill?
• 6:25
  Speaker B: What?
• 6:25
  Speaker A: The Salem witch trials. I know about them from some of the books I had to read in high school and some of the stupid movies that I've seen regarding, you know, the Salem west trial. Like I've seen documentaries, so I have some knowledge about it. And it just seems so preposterous. And so anytime something like that from history really happened, that seems so far fetched. Like how could any reasonably minded individual, like, be in a situation like this? Like it makes no sense that they.
• 7:00
  Speaker B: Would subscribe to the stupidity and actually have the results of killing people.
• 7:06
  Speaker A: Yes. Because of something so stupid. I want to know. Okay, so what was the climate like, what was happening? And so I. And so I did a little research about witch trials and when they started. And of course they started in Europe, the tradition started in Europe. So do you mind if I talk a little bit about that?
• 7:26
  Speaker B: You know what? I do. I would rather you not. I don't think it's relevant.
• 7:32
  Speaker A: Yeah, you liar.
• 7:34
  Speaker B: Why, of course I would love for you to talk about it.
• 7:36
  Speaker A: Please. Well, I'm so glad you said that. Here's the thing. Before the year 1400, Jill, in early medieval Europe. Yeah. Witchcraft was not a big deal. No, it wasn't a big deal. It was viewed. It's right. It was viewed as superstition or folklore or the belief of the folk people, you know, like the peasantry. Yeah, yeah. And you know, there was the church, of course. The Catholic church was a big deal in medieval Europe. And church doctrine generally denied witches had any real supernatural power. So the church didn't have anything like. They weren't out persecuting witches. It wasn't a thing. It was known to be a superstitious or belief of some of the folks, but it was not a hot button topic.
• 8:31
  Speaker B: Okay, until when? When did that change?
• 8:33
  Speaker A: Well, between the year 1400 and 1500, we see a big shift.
• 8:41
  Speaker B: Okay.
• 8:42
  Speaker A: And a very important book is written in 1487.
• 8:49
  Speaker B: I know this.
• 8:50
  Speaker A: You do?
• 8:51
  Speaker B: I do know this.
• 8:51
  Speaker A: I don't think you do.
• 8:52
  Speaker B: I do know.
• 8:53
  Speaker A: I think you think you know, but I don't think you know.
• 8:55
  Speaker B: I do think. I know.
• 8:57
  Speaker A: Okay, say it. What was the very important book?
• 8:59
  Speaker B: King James. Demonology.
• 9:01
  Speaker A: No. Well, thank you for playing. It was called Malleus Maleficarum.
• 9:08
  Speaker B: Oh, did. No, I don't know that one. But it does sound very. Harry Potter.
• 9:12
  Speaker A: It sounds so. Harry Potter. It's actually Latin. And this publication was written in 1487 by a couple of Dominican friars who were inquisitors meaning they're part of the Inquisition. Okay. And they were trying to get this witch, they were trying to persecute this witch. Okay. And it didn't work. They lost. Okay, Exactly. So Kramer, this guy Heinrich Kramer, failed in a witch trial in Innsbruck and, and sought to legitimize the persecution. Persecution of alleged witches. So he's like all butt hurt that he was in trial. And he was like, this person's a witch. And they're like, you're ridiculous. And he loses. And then he's like, well, I'm going to write a book about it. And so, yeah, he and his other Dominican friend, Jacob Sprenger, wrote this book in 1486. It was in Latin and it was called. The translation is the Hammer of Witches.
• 10:24
  Speaker B: Wow. Someone's angry. It's going a full Levin on some witches for sure.
• 10:30
  Speaker A: It was basically about the existence of witches and their supposed powers. So it went into all the, the devilish stuff that witches did, also the ways that they allegedly consort with the devil. So scary stuff. Right. And finally, and perhaps the most important, troubling and long standing piece of information that it included was judicial procedures for identifying, trying and executing them.
• 11:06
  Speaker B: Wow.
• 11:07
  Speaker A: Including detailed interrogation techniques and confessional practices emphasizing the danger of female sexuality and the moral weakness of women.
• 11:22
  Speaker C: Wow.
• 11:24
  Speaker A: Yeah. Now this became a very historically important book that was endorsed by the Catholic Church.
• 11:37
  Speaker B: Oh, Catholicism.
• 11:40
  Speaker A: Now why, why would the church endorse this? It seems ridiculous, does it not?
• 11:47
  Speaker B: I mean, like, I think it's ridiculous.
• 11:49
  Speaker A: Like a second ago, witches were no big deal. Now all of a sudden it's like, not only a big deal, but we have to kill them. Like, what, what is the big change, you might ask?
• 11:59
  Speaker B: That is what I'm asking. That is exactly what I'm asking.
• 12:02
  Speaker A: Okay. Okay. So you have to consider the social political climate of the time.
• 12:10
  Speaker B: What was the social political climate at the time, Jennifer?
• 12:13
  Speaker A: Okay. Have you heard of the Reformation?
• 12:18
  Speaker B: Yes.
• 12:18
  Speaker A: Okay. Like Martin Luther and how like in 1517 and he like nailed some shit up on a church door about like the abuses of the Catholic Church. Right. Well, the seeds of the Protestant Reformation were taking root in, during this time. Okay. And that's because unfortunately, the Roman Catholic Church in power had a lot of corruption and abuses. And over the years, people were getting sick of it.
• 12:46
  Speaker B: Okay, yeah, I can see that.
• 12:47
  Speaker A: And then around the middle of the 15th century, in about 1450, guess what happened? The printing press became a thing. It was invented and it started being used to spread ideas. Because now instead of a monk sitting and spending his entire life to make a book. Now you could have like a printing press make books. And not only could they make books fast and they could make books cheaper, they were also printing books in people's languages that they spoke and read. So it was no longer Latin. So now like popular ideas were spreading among the common people.
• 13:25
  Speaker B: And there's a big change because up to this point only well educated people would have access to any kind of writings.
• 13:33
  Speaker A: Well educated people and church people.
• 13:35
  Speaker B: And them church people.
• 13:36
  Speaker A: Guess what these people were reading and talking about and what reformists were writing about them witches. No, criticism of the Catholic Church. What criticism? Right. Because.
• 13:48
  Speaker B: Because the Catholic Church is corrupt and has all this money.
• 13:51
  Speaker A: Right. So now there's all these pamphlets, all this alternate. Now we have alternate ideas happening. Okay? And so this uproots all of society because until this time it was stable. There was the Catholic Church and that was it. And you followed it or you didn't. But now all of a sudden these reformist ideas are starting to fracture the Christian world. And now there's different groups starting to form and they're pointing fingers at whose theology is the correct theology. And so now people are caught in these conflicts and questions about heresy are coming up. Now heresy is, sounds like a scary word, but it has no power over you and me because we don't believe that we're going to go to hell if a priest tells us we're going to go to hell.
• 14:43
  Speaker B: True. But back then though, although it would take me back of a priest did tell me I was going to hell, like that would stop me. I mean, I would feel, really. Yeah, I would feel some type of way if a priest told me I was going to hell.
• 14:55
  Speaker A: That's your Catholic upbringing.
• 14:56
  Speaker B: I'm just saying, I'm just keeping it real.
• 14:59
  Speaker A: But back then, if you were a heretic, then that meant your eternity, your eternity is in the burning flames of hell. And that was very, very serious and scary. So there was a lot of anxiety over salvation. And also there was weak, weak government, weak authority. You know, there weren't like the countries with established authority and established structured hierarchy of how, how judicial practices work. Right. And it really was up to the local community. And the local community was effing crazy depending on who was in charge or not in charge.
• 15:43
  Speaker B: That's true today around here.
• 15:46
  Speaker A: Right. So a week, week authority with local panic was a terrible, terrible mix. Can you see that? Like nobody who's in charge? Well, I guess whoever says they're in charge. And not only that couple, all of this social Political difficulties with the fact that, oh, yeah, by the way, in this period, we have famine, we have the plague, like the legit bubonic plague happening. We have war, we have climate stress. The little ice age was happening. Nobody knew what the f was going on. And so who's at fault? Who's at fault? What? Must be the witches, right?
• 16:30
  Speaker B: It has to be witches.
• 16:31
  Speaker A: Has to be the witches.
• 16:32
  Speaker B: And it has to be women witches with their sexuality and everything.
• 16:35
  Speaker A: Absolutely. So the witch hunts actually were peaking in Europe, Jill, between 1500 and 1650, and witch trials were spreading across Europe, especially in the German states, in Switzerland and France and Scotland. All kinds of social stressors, of course, with the Reformation happening formally with plague, famine, climate instability. The legal practices were brutal torture used to extract confessions, testimony based on rumors, based on fear. And it's estimated that during this period, about between 40,000 and 60,000 people were executed during these trials. And the majority. The majority, of course, were women. Women, often elderly or marginalized. But here's the thing. The accepted judicial practices spread to the colonies. And we know that in 1692 we have the Salem witch trials. But by that time, it was already in decline in Europe. Like, Europe was already like, yeah, this torture based confession system. Like, something's not right here. Like, Europe had wisened up. And yet here we have in America, they brought their traditions of witch hunting with them. And even though it was in the decline, we have this crazy situation happening at the Salem witch trials between 1692 and 1693, where over 200 people were accused and 19 executed by hanging and one pressed to death with stones. So there you have it. That's a larger kind of global framework for what we're dealing with here. Does that help?
• 18:31
  Speaker B: You know, let's move on and see if it does. Okay, so tell me about the Salem witch trials in 1692.
• 18:39
  Speaker A: Well, they took place in the Massachusetts Bay Colony. And during this period, it was the colonial courts that investigated accusations that different members of the community were practicing witchcraft. A crime that was, of course, punishable by death under English law.
• 18:59
  Speaker B: Got it.
• 19:01
  Speaker A: Now, it started. The accusers were young girls. And in early 1692, there were several young girls in Salem village who began exhibiting, let's say, alarming physical and emotional symptoms such as seizures, violent outbursts, and periods of muteness. Local physicians were called, and they could find no medical explanation. And they suggested that the children, the girls, were under some supernatural influence. Way to go, doc. Let's just stop there for a minute.
• 19:47
  Speaker B: Kids can be such assholes sometimes.
• 19:49
  Speaker A: Well, And I was thinking too, like, isn't teenage rebellion a thing? And if you.
• 19:55
  Speaker B: Teenage angst.
• 19:56
  Speaker A: Yes. And if you are in 1692 in a puritan community, you got shit to do, and you got shit to do and your hormones are going crazy and you want to rebel, but you don't want to die because, like. Or you don't want to be so severely punished that you're. You know. Whatever they did to young girls, I don't even wanna think about it, you know, who are acting out. Right.
• 20:22
  Speaker B: What did they have the thing with the hands on the head?
• 20:24
  Speaker A: Isn't that called a stockade?
• 20:26
  Speaker B: I think so.
• 20:27
  Speaker A: Where they put your head. And then it was very public. Right.
• 20:30
  Speaker B: They would leave you there.
• 20:31
  Speaker A: Town square. Yeah. They would leave you there for hours and hours with your head and arms in the stockade as punishment. So you. I imagine you only had so many outlets for which to rebel.
• 20:45
  Speaker B: Okay, I agree with that statement completely.
• 20:48
  Speaker A: Right, so.
• 20:49
  Speaker B: Right.
• 20:49
  Speaker A: So let's put. Put it in that context.
• 20:52
  Speaker B: And kids are assholes.
• 20:53
  Speaker A: And kids are assholes. And doctors. What. What did Doctors know in 1692?
• 21:00
  Speaker B: Get the leeches.
• 21:01
  Speaker A: Right. And I love that, like, doctors and butchers were, like, the same thing for, like, years and years.
• 21:08
  Speaker B: That's not appealing to me.
• 21:11
  Speaker A: So the doctors were like, oh, they must be under some supernatural experience. They probably took their little hammer and, like, hammered their knee, and their knee popped up and they're like, yeah, they're fine. It's got to be. It's got to be witches anyway.
• 21:23
  Speaker B: Witches. It's always the witches.
• 21:25
  Speaker A: Within weeks, the girls started identifying neighbors. Neighbors who they claimed were the source of their afflictions, which initiated a wave of accusations.
• 21:42
  Speaker B: Oh, God.
• 21:44
  Speaker A: Now, of course, we have colonial Massachusetts, which was a Puritan society in which religious belief and civil law were, like, connected.
• 21:56
  Speaker B: They were, like, really the same. One in the same. Truly.
• 22:00
  Speaker A: Truly. And so witchcraft, as we know, was defined as a covenant with the devil. And of course, biblical scripture was used to justify the prosecution of witches. And once accusations were made, Jill, magistrate issued arrest warrants and the accused were, quote, publicly examined.
• 22:25
  Speaker B: That's frightening.
• 22:26
  Speaker A: It's.
• 22:27
  Speaker B: If it seems like just a frutal accusation would get you in some serious trouble. Right? For sure.
• 22:35
  Speaker A: You'd be arrested, Right. You'd be. Someone would say you were. That you did something, and then you would be arrested. Yikes. And during these public examinations, judges observed the reactions of the afflicted. So they were watching these girls and treated their physical distress as evidence of guilt. Wow.
• 23:01
  Speaker B: That's ridiculous.
• 23:02
  Speaker A: Right? So the accused would be brought in in front of the accusers. And if the accusers act crazy, started going into fits, that would be proof that. That the person was guilty.
• 23:20
  Speaker B: That is ridiculous. And it all started for some, with some teenage young ladies who are probably bored, hormonal.
• 23:29
  Speaker A: Right.
• 23:30
  Speaker B: Got shit to do.
• 23:30
  Speaker A: Got shit to do.
• 23:32
  Speaker B: Just started accusing people.
• 23:34
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 23:35
  Speaker B: Oh, that's evil. Okay, go on.
• 23:38
  Speaker A: So the number of cases was growing and growing. And the colonial government established what was called the Court of Oyer and Terminer in May of 1692 to specifically deal with all of these accusations. And this court accepted several forms of evidence, but most notably, they accepted spectral evidence. Can you describe what that means? Spectral evidence?
• 24:10
  Speaker B: A witness claimed that a spirit or apparition of the accused has harmed them.
• 24:16
  Speaker A: Had harmed them. Yes.
• 24:17
  Speaker B: So all they have to do is claim that that spirit. Spirit of that person has. Has harmed me and that's it. They're like, case closed.
• 24:26
  Speaker A: Well, I think they did a little more digging than that. But the idea.
• 24:32
  Speaker B: Very little. I mean, if that's the burden of proof, just someone saying that, Come on.
• 24:37
  Speaker A: But I think the idea that you could be guilty for something that you did not do physically, but something that your spirit did is absolutely mind bending. Like, what, Are you kidding me right now?
• 24:53
  Speaker B: I have no words.
• 24:54
  Speaker A: And because this kind of evidence could not be disproven, like, how do you. How do you prove that it didn't happen?
• 25:00
  Speaker B: You can't prove something didn't happen other than it's not happening.
• 25:04
  Speaker A: Right. It became a powerful and dangerous tool in the courtroom. Confessions were often obtained under pressure or in hopes of avoiding execution. And were they. So they were also heavily relied upon. So pretty much the only way you could get out of being executed for these accusations was to confess.
• 25:30
  Speaker B: And that's a terrible conundrum to be in.
• 25:34
  Speaker A: And of course, the confession would bring some other type of punishment. Right. You wouldn't be put to death, but there'd be something else that you'd have to do to atone.
• 25:44
  Speaker B: Oh, God.
• 25:45
  Speaker A: And I mean, ridiculous.
• 25:47
  Speaker B: 1600S atonement is like, we're talking atonement today as like 10 Hail Marys, 10 Hail Father, or 10 Our Fathers. In the 1600s, it's like weeks at church, like all day long. All day, every day you're at church, everything sucks.
• 26:02
  Speaker A: And it was probably some sort of social. Social punishment as well.
• 26:07
  Speaker B: Yeah. You're socially ridiculed.
• 26:10
  Speaker A: Yes, exactly. So as the trials progressed, accusations were spreading beyond Salem Village to the surrounding towns throughout Essex County. And the accused included Men and women of varying social positions, clergy members, and even reciprocal respected community figures. By the summer of 1692, the court had convicted dozens of people. Nineteen were hanged, and one man, Giles Corey, died after being pressed with stones for refusing to enter a plea. Wow. Several others died in jail, just awaiting trial.
• 26:54
  Speaker B: Oh, my God.
• 26:55
  Speaker A: So public unease was growing as the scope of these accusations widened. Ministers and political leaders began questioning the validity of the spectral evidence and the fairness of the proceedings.
• 27:09
  Speaker B: Oh, now that they're at risk.
• 27:10
  Speaker A: Exactly.
• 27:11
  Speaker B: All of a sudden, like, wait a second, we're getting things out of hand here right now.
• 27:15
  Speaker A: That prominent people were being named.
• 27:17
  Speaker B: Wow.
• 27:18
  Speaker A: And by the way, remember their counterparts in Europe, they already know that this is bullshit. Yeah, right. So we.
• 27:25
  Speaker B: We.
• 27:26
  Speaker A: We as Americans, like the. The colonists are looking. Are. Look, they're looking at them as like backwoods sort of people. Like, you're still doing that. Like.
• 27:35
  Speaker B: Like that is so 1400s. My God.
• 27:38
  Speaker A: Exactly.
• 27:39
  Speaker B: Catch up.
• 27:41
  Speaker A: Finally. Finally, In October of 1692, Governor William Phips dissolved the court of Oyer and terminer and a new court was formed. But this court excluded spectral evidence. No longer were you able to accuse someone, someone's spirit of harming you outside of their body. That was no longer allowed.
• 28:04
  Speaker B: Well, thank God for that.
• 28:06
  Speaker A: And then, of course, without that special evidence, there were a lot more acquittals and a lot more dismissals based on the evidence that was allowed. By 1693, thank goodness, the witch trials had effectively ended. Still, they resulted in the execution of 19 and the imprisonment of many others and long lasting consequences for the colony. In the years that followed, colonial leaders acknowledged the injustice of the proceedings. And in 1711, the Massachusetts legislature overturned many convictions and compensated the families of the accused.
• 28:46
  Speaker B: A little late, but all right, I'll take it.
• 28:49
  Speaker A: The Salem witch trials came to be remembered not as a defense against evil, but of a profound failure of justice, which was driven by fear, religious extremism, and flawed legal standards.
• 29:05
  Speaker B: All right, Jen, before the mighty were being accused, what types of people were typical for targeting for suspicion of witchcraft? Hit me up on it.
• 29:17
  Speaker A: Great question. During the Salem Witch trials, accusations of witchcraft were not random. While there are a lot of different types of people who were accused, there was definite patterns. Those targeted were often individuals who were outside social, economic, or behavioral norms of Puritan England. For example, middle aged or elderly women were very frequently targeted. Roughly 75 to 80% of the accused were women. Women beyond childbearing age were especially vulnerable. And also remember that Puritan beliefs, as well as the old beliefs of the 1400s from Europe viewed women as spiritually weaker and more susceptible to the devil.
• 30:08
  Speaker B: I. I'm dropping the card on that.
• 30:12
  Speaker A: Widows and unmarried women were often very vulnerable because they lacked the male protection of a husband.
• 30:21
  Speaker B: It sucks that you needed one back then, right?
• 30:24
  Speaker A: Oh, and by the way, if you were a widow or independent woman who owned property, guess what?
• 30:30
  Speaker B: You in danger, girl.
• 30:31
  Speaker A: You a witch.
• 30:32
  Speaker B: You in danger.
• 30:33
  Speaker A: You a witch. Automatically. Right? And of course, then there were the poor and marginalized or socially isolated, elderly, disabled people who are dependent on the local charity. Wow, that is some bs.
• 30:51
  Speaker B: The least among us.
• 30:53
  Speaker A: Yeah. And also, when misfortune struck, illness, crop failure, livestock death, these individuals were easy scapegoats. And also, if you just happen to be in a long standing conflict over, let's say, land disputes, inheritance conflicts, church disagreements, or even feuds between families, guess what? Witchcraft was probably accused.
• 31:21
  Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 31:24
  Speaker A: Witchcraft was probably behind it all. You got it.
• 31:27
  Speaker B: My gosh. So witchcraft accusations became a lethal weapon for settling personal grievances.
• 31:34
  Speaker A: Right?
• 31:35
  Speaker B: How you like that?
• 31:36
  Speaker A: And by the way, if you were sarcastic or you got angry or you displayed calm confidence during questioning, that was seen as evidence that you really were a witch.
• 31:48
  Speaker B: Wow, really?
• 31:49
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 31:50
  Speaker B: Even if, like, you weren't acting crazy, but, like, you were chill and you.
• 31:53
  Speaker A: Were calm, they're like, oh, you must be a witch. Why are you so calm?
• 31:56
  Speaker B: Yeah, anyone else would be scared right now but you, you witch.
• 31:59
  Speaker A: You.
• 31:59
  Speaker B: You just.
• 32:00
  Speaker A: You.
• 32:00
  Speaker B: You cool.
• 32:01
  Speaker A: You cool now. Right? But on the other hand, if you acted out with anger at it. Oh, of course. Right. Where is that anger coming from? It must be the devil. You must be possessed by the devil. Like, you couldn't win.
• 32:11
  Speaker B: Oh, 100% couldn't win.
• 32:12
  Speaker A: Like I said, even sarcasm was a sign that you were sarcasm that you were a witch. Can we just go on the record and say you and I both would have been executed in 1692, burned twice.
• 32:23
  Speaker B: We would have been double burned. Well, like refined beans. We would be reburnt witches. They would be like, make sure these are tarred pretty good.
• 32:32
  Speaker A: Yeah, they. They were. They were hanged mostly, but I. Our people would have been burned in Europe. Let. We wouldn't even be here with the puritans.
• 32:40
  Speaker B: True. Oh, but would you. You know what? Honestly, I'm going out on a limb saying I would rather be hung in the puritanical colonies because their life sucked. Like, literally suck. Did you see that TV show that they are, like, pretending to be, like, in the 1500s, living in the Cali. Oh, my God, kill me now.
• 33:03
  Speaker A: The Reality kill me right now. Right?
• 33:04
  Speaker B: I know. It's the worst.
• 33:05
  Speaker A: Where they take modern people. Oh, my God. Jill, you and I should apply to the National.
• 33:09
  Speaker B: Jennifer. They do, like, nine hours a day, every day of church. They're not kidding. And it's like, whoever breaks first. I would like, friggin Hulk my way out of that and be like, give me my iPhone. How to the. No.
• 33:22
  Speaker A: First you have to build your church and your pews, and then you have to sit on the splintery pews. Yeah, no, that's.
• 33:30
  Speaker B: Yeah, none of that.
• 33:31
  Speaker A: I think you. You bring up a good point. Men were sometimes accused as well. Fewer, much fewer than women. But the ones that were susceptible, the ones that were accused, were often the ones who defended an accused woman, held unpopular views, or had reputations for being quarrelsome. And most of the men who were accused were relatives of accused women.
• 33:58
  Speaker B: Okay, so in all this.
• 34:00
  Speaker A: Yes.
• 34:00
  Speaker B: Who was Susanna Martin?
• 34:02
  Speaker A: Oh, we're already at Susanna Martin. Wow. Time flies when we're talking witchcraft. Susanna Martin, born Susanna north around 1621 in England. She immigrated to New England during the mid-1600s and married a man named George Martin. They eventually settled in Salisbury, a coastal farming community north of Salem. And they lived a modest life, by most accounts, raised children and maintained property typical of the region. But already by the 1660s, 30 years before the Salem witch trials, Susanna Martin had already drawn negative attention from her neighbors. While records show that she was accused of witchcraft in 1669, more than 20 years before the outbreak, she's ahead of her time. These accusations did not leave to conviction, but they marked her as a woman to be viewed with suspicion. Testimony from the period suggests that she was considered all bad things and apparently associated with witchcraft, including. She was outspoken, she was assertive, and unwilling to submit quietly to authority.
• 35:19
  Speaker B: Yeah, I think I'm a witch.
• 35:22
  Speaker A: You 100 would not have survived that. You would not have survived this, Jill.
• 35:27
  Speaker B: Nope. Not at all.
• 35:29
  Speaker A: So then Susanna's husband dies, and she lives as a widow, and she manages her household independently. Now, in Puritan England, widows, particularly those who defended themselves forcefully in disputes, were socially vulnerable. And Susanna was involved in conflicts between neighbors over livestock, property boundaries, and other perceived slights. And therefore, several people testified that when she argued or spoke harshly, misfortune followed. In other words, when Susanna Martin had yelled at her neighbor about something, suddenly someone became ill, or there was an accident, or. Or the animals ran away. Yeah, events that were interpreted as supernatural retaliation other than coincidence.
• 36:23
  Speaker B: So let's get to Susanna's trial. She was arrested in May 16, 1692 she was and she was examined and transported to Salem for the trial.
• 36:33
  Speaker A: She was. Accusers claimed that she appeared to them as a specter and caused physical harm to them.
• 36:42
  Speaker B: Let's go to the courtroom in 1692. Brian, take us there. The scene unfolds at the Salem town meeting house near the present day intersection of Hobert and Forest streets in Danvers, Massachusetts. It is the second day of May, 1692, and the weather is unseasonably cold. Despite the chill, townspeople arrive bundled in cloaks and wool, gathering closely to witness the ongoing spectacle, the trial of Susanna Martin. The town meeting house has swollen far past its capacity. The government's prosecution and the judge are already at their respected stations, seated in a solemn anticipation, earnestly awaiting the arrival of defendant Susanna Martin. The doors of the meeting house swing open and the guarded Susanna is escorted through the packed crowd. At her entrance, chaos erupts. Several of the attendants collapse into fits of violent concortion. Abigail Williams and Goody Martin cry out as they convulse, screaming she's hurting me.
• 37:59
  Speaker A: She hurts me often.
• 38:02
  Speaker B: Susanna makes her way to her seat, responds not with fear, but with laughter, openly mocking the spectacle unfolding before her. The prosecutor immediately starts in.
• 38:19
  Speaker A: What?
• 38:20
  Speaker C: Do you laugh at it?
• 38:21
  Speaker A: Well, I may. At such folly.
• 38:24
  Speaker C: Is this folly to see thee so hurt? What did you do? Did you consent these should be hurt?
• 38:31
  Speaker A: I never hurt man, woman or child.
• 38:36
  Speaker B: More cries from the crowd. She has hurt me a great many times.
• 38:40
  Speaker A: She's plucked me down.
• 38:45
  Speaker C: What do you say to this?
• 38:47
  Speaker A: I have no hand in this.
• 38:51
  Speaker C: What did you do? Did you consent that these should be hurt?
• 38:55
  Speaker A: No, never in my life.
• 38:58
  Speaker C: What ails these people?
• 39:01
  Speaker A: I do not know.
• 39:03
  Speaker C: But what do you think ails them?
• 39:06
  Speaker A: I do not desire to spend my judgment on it.
• 39:11
  Speaker C: Do you think they are bewitched?
• 39:15
  Speaker A: No, I do not think they are.
• 39:18
  Speaker C: What have you done towards the hurt of these?
• 39:21
  Speaker A: I have done nothing.
• 39:24
  Speaker C: Why is it you or your appearance that afflicts these people?
• 39:28
  Speaker A: I cannot help my appearance.
• 39:31
  Speaker C: How come your appearance hurts these?
• 39:34
  Speaker A: How do I know?
• 39:37
  Speaker C: Do you believe these afflicted persons? Do not say true.
• 39:41
  Speaker A: They may lie for all I know.
• 39:43
  Speaker C: May not you lie?
• 39:46
  Speaker A: I dare not tell a lie, even if it would save my life.
• 39:52
  Speaker C: Then you will not speak the truth, will you?
• 39:55
  Speaker A: I have spoken nothing else, although it had not done any good.
• 40:01
  Speaker B: Susanna brings her hands together as in prayer, then slowly lets them fall back into her lap. At once fresh cries erupt from the crowd. I have seen her. I have seen her through the moonbeams.
• 40:14
  Speaker C: Pray God discover you if you be guilty.
• 40:18
  Speaker A: Amen. Amen. A false tongue will never make a guilty person.
• 40:27
  Speaker B: Okay. And our guy Jarvis Ring was there to see all of that.
• 40:34
  Speaker A: Wow. Actually.
• 40:37
  Speaker B: Actually love this woman, by the way.
• 40:41
  Speaker A: She's something. Jarvis Ring was there. And not only was he there, Jill, he testified against her. No. Yes.
• 40:51
  Speaker B: No.
• 40:52
  Speaker A: Yes.
• 40:52
  Speaker B: No. Yes, he did, Brian.
• 40:57
  Speaker A: Let's hear that testimony.
• 41:00
  Speaker C: Seven or eight years ago, I had been several times afflicted in the night time by somebody or something coming up upon me when in bed. Something sorely afflicted me by laying upon me. Laying upon me. I could neither move speak while it was upon me. Only sometimes I managed a noise to escape that folks did here. Then people did come to me. But as soon as one would appear, the affliction would be gone. This had happened for a long time before. And since I never did see anybody clearly but one time. But one time in the night came upon me as the other times. And I did see the person, Susanna Martin of Amesbury. While I lay despondent, I did see her. She came to me and took my right hand. While despondent, she bit my and laid upon me. The unseen had done time before. After a while, she went away. The print of the bite on my tiny finger was hard to heal. She came many times while I slept. But the time she bit my finger, I lay fully awake. I could see her plane and felt her teeth.
• 42:17
  Speaker B: Okay, okay. Welcome back. What did the court decide? Because that was some bullshit testimony, his little baby pinky didn't heal.
• 42:25
  Speaker A: Aww. Despite the lack of physical evidence, the court accepted the spectral testimony as valid. And Susanna Martin was convicted of witchcraft in June of 1692. Executed by hanging on July 19, 1692, at Gallows Hill alongside four other convicted individuals. Susanna was about 70 years old, making her one of the oldest victims of the trials. In the years following the collapse of the witch trials, public opinion shifted. And of course, in 1711, the Massachusetts legislature reversed Susanna Martin's conviction, restoring her legal innocence and acknowledging that the proceedings were unjust. Financial restitution was granted to surviving family members.
• 43:18
  Speaker B: Wow. Okay. That's insane. They really messed that up.
• 43:24
  Speaker A: Jill, why do you think this case still matters?
• 43:29
  Speaker B: The fact that having independent thought or being outspoken in today's political climate could still be very dangerous.
• 43:39
  Speaker A: It can be dangerous. It can be very dangerous.
• 43:44
  Speaker B: People have died recently for speaking. Speaking out. So I think that's relevant. It also demonstrates the moral failure of the courts that they didn't evaluate the evidence, but put their self interest or their own fears over the facts that were presented, which is a real problem. Like if they don't want to deal with like going against the norm or going against the powerful, they would rather just be like guilty than actually be like, this is some.
• 44:15
  Speaker A: Yo.
• 44:17
  Speaker B: Why do you think it still matters?
• 44:20
  Speaker A: I agree. And so you think that Susanna is our voiceless here?
• 44:24
  Speaker B: I do.
• 44:25
  Speaker A: Tell me why I think that she.
• 44:30
  Speaker B: Her story parallels some of the things happening today. People making innocent people out to be some type of terrorists or agitators if they speak out against what they think is political injustice. What do you think?
• 44:50
  Speaker A: Her story is certainly a reminder of how fear is actually dangerous and how social control can override reasons and justice.
• 45:07
  Speaker B: You ain't wrong.
• 45:08
  Speaker A: And yeah, I'm just thinking of social media and how this. How social media is such a sewer when it comes to this and can be an accelerant to some of these dangerous ideas as well.
• 45:23
  Speaker B: Agreed. I didn't even think of that. Jeez.
• 45:28
  Speaker A: I mean, Susannah's is only one of the many voiceless spirits whose stories still echo through New England history, you know, including all of the other. The other 1819 people who ended up perishing because of this nonsense.
• 45:43
  Speaker B: And not forgetting the thousands of people that you mentioned before in Europe, in earlier centuries.
• 45:49
  Speaker A: 100%.
• 45:51
  Speaker B: So why do you think Susanna was reaching out to us?
• 45:55
  Speaker A: Well, we were. We did ask for the voiceless to come through.
• 46:00
  Speaker B: True, we did.
• 46:01
  Speaker A: But there is another mind blowing reason that I still cannot get over that you have to share. Because you have to share. Not even believe this.
• 46:12
  Speaker B: I need you to share it.
• 46:13
  Speaker A: So when you shared with me Jarvis Ring, that name that came up in that article when I had googled Almay City, Michigan Witches, right? Yeah. Jarvis Ringont Almont.
• 46:26
  Speaker B: Yes.
• 46:26
  Speaker A: No, I. I didn't google Almont. I googled Imlay City and the article about Almont came up. Okay, thank you for that. Yeah. And we saw Jarvis ring and Jarvis is obviously our maiden name, so we knew something is here. And then you call me days later. You call me days later. Always in an inopportune time. By the way, you never text me first. You never say, can you talk. You always just facetime me and whatever I'm doing, I. I'm the idiot. Cause I usually answer. So anyway, so I answer and you are holding your head and you say, jennifer, we are related to Jarvis Rink. And that's when I said to you, you know Jarvis was his first name, right?
• 47:12
  Speaker B: Yes. And I said to you, do you.
• 47:14
  Speaker A: Think I'm an idiot? That's exactly how it went. But as it turns out, Jarvis Ring's mother was named Elizabeth Jarvis.
• 47:22
  Speaker B: It's true. And Elizabeth Jarvis named her son Jarvis Ring. And we would share an ancestor, a common ancestor via DNA between Jarvis Ring, Elizabeth Jarvis and Susan. Help me with this.
• 47:42
  Speaker A: Militello. Militello. Yeah.
• 47:45
  Speaker B: And not to mention Frank Wood Ring.
• 47:48
  Speaker A: We related. I am literally speechless right now.
• 47:54
  Speaker B: Descendants of the Ringwood line that are alive today, that have and share our DNA are our third cousins twice removed. So I don't know who the common ancestor would be. But the fact that Jarvis DNA shows up as an equal parts in our tree, that's insane. And there was like four of them that I was comparing.
• 48:20
  Speaker A: So it occurs to me that Susanna. Susanna's definitely the voice coming through here. I wasn't feeling a relative's voice. I wasn't feeling Jarvis Ring's voice. Okay.
• 48:31
  Speaker B: I wasn't either.
• 48:32
  Speaker A: I think Susanna wanted to bring to our attention the fact that our ancestors, our ancestor, is partially responsible for her fate, her execution. How ironic.
• 48:49
  Speaker B: Do I want to bring it to our attention? Because here we are traveling around looking for spirits, giggling like, loving the fact that witches may be in the area. And we stumble upon this not only connection to Eastern Michigan and the Salem witch trials, but our own, our own.
• 49:07
  Speaker A: Family, our own family tree. Unbelievable. Spirit does not disappoint you guys?
• 49:14
  Speaker B: Nope.
• 49:15
  Speaker A: All you have to do.
• 49:16
  Speaker B: This could be a detour.
• 49:18
  Speaker A: This couldn't be a detour.
• 49:20
  Speaker B: No. We had to do it upright.
• 49:22
  Speaker A: All right. My goodness. So obviously the witchcraft connection from the very beginning was right on the family name. I could not have been more right. Right? Yeah. So there we have it.
• 49:36
  Speaker B: Jennifer.
• 49:37
  Speaker A: Yes.
• 49:37
  Speaker B: Thank you for this. And thank you for adding some historical context. I really appreciate it.
• 49:42
  Speaker A: Oh. Did you like it?
• 49:43
  Speaker B: I did. It really. It really opened my eyes to think that this has been happening for centuries in different ways and in different capacities. Yeah, like in a larger way. Like as bad as the 1692 were, to hear the stats from the 1500s, the 1400s is insane, insane, insane.
• 50:02
  Speaker A: This was small, small potatoes compared to what had been happening. Although they should have known better because Europe was over it. But anyway, news travels very slowly when.
• 50:12
  Speaker B: It has to come via boat.
• 50:14
  Speaker A: Good point. Do you want me to get my phone so that I can read the review?
• 50:18
  Speaker B: I hope you would.
• 50:20
  Speaker A: I need to go grab it.
• 50:21
  Speaker B: Okay. I will talk to the people. Hey, people, it's Jill here. I hope you enjoyed today's episode. Jennifer is running to get her phone. Thank you guys so much for being so supportive and putting reviews up. We really appreciate it. Just the love coming from you guys keeps us going. Thank you so much. It really means a lot. Also, sharing, downloading, and talking about our podcast with your friends and family. That means the world to us. She's back. She's putting her headphones on. Here she is.
• 51:00
  Speaker A: We now have 213 reviews on Apple. Thank you. We really appreciate it. I love you. Our next benchmark is 220. We're trying to get to 220, so if you haven't rated us yet, please give us five stars. And if you write a narrative, we will read it. And we do have a written review from Moon over the Sea. Beautiful, Beautiful. The title is a favorite podcast. Yay. Moon over the Sea says. Love this podcast. Jennifer and Jill share their psychic insights as they travel to various locations with the intention of giving voice to the voiceless. Once they receive their psychic hits and the stories begin to unfold, you feel like you're right along for the adventure. These two are down to earth, warm, entertaining, and clearly lead with heart. Tune in.
• 52:01
  Speaker B: Aw, that's really sweet.
• 52:03
  Speaker A: That makes me so happy. Thank you so much, Jill. Are there other community announcements?
• 52:10
  Speaker B: Yes, we have some housekeeping to do.
• 52:11
  Speaker A: Please.
• 52:13
  Speaker B: As you know, my sister Jennifer, who is. Hi, Jennifer. There she is now. She is a wonderful educator and her specialty is having the ability to understand how people learn. And she is hosting mentorships individually or a group class at the end of January. So please reach out to us via email@commonmysticsmail.com Also, as always, I am doing readings. So please email us there if you would like a reading to reach to communicate with your loved ones in spirit or to do a tarot reading.
• 52:46
  Speaker A: My sister Jill is a natural psychic medium. She is so you stop it. You're right.
• 52:54
  Speaker B: You are so good. You always so nice to me. It's weird.
• 52:57
  Speaker A: You always, always get such amazing information from spirit and really all people need is some pictures of people that they want to communicate with. They send them to you and you can tap into people who have passed, who have passed on. So good on you.
• 53:17
  Speaker B: Thank you as always, you guys, I really appreciate, we really appreciate our patrons at any level.
• 53:23
  Speaker A: True.
• 53:24
  Speaker B: You guys are keeping us going with the readings, the mentorships and the classes. These things that we're providing for you are keeping the lights on, keeping Brian employed and keeping this podcast going. So thank you so much for doing that. And if, if you haven't done that, you know what, come on over, join us.
• 53:42
  Speaker A: Join us on Patreon we have four tiers current. I mean, I think prices will be going up, but currently the top tier is only $25 a month. And you get two extra episodes a month, as well as monthly zoom calls where we talk about different topics or present on different topics.
• 54:01
  Speaker B: The thing that's funny about why our prices are going up is because you guys who subscribe, who are a part of these groups and this content behind the paywall said this is too cheap for what you're providing for us. And that's why we have to reassess our prices. Because you guys are telling us, not because we're savvy business women, but you guys are like girls. You're really giving away the shit.
• 54:26
  Speaker A: How do we become savvy businesswoman?
• 54:30
  Speaker B: Listen to our. Our patrons, apparently.
• 54:32
  Speaker A: All right, all right. Maybe I should start doing that. Love you.
• 54:37
  Speaker B: Love you. Love you guys so much. Thank you for tuning in.
• 54:39
  Speaker A: Thank you. Bye Bye.
• 54:41
  Speaker B: This has been a common Mystics Media Production editing done by Yokai Audio, Kalamazoo, Michigan.