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How to Overcome Loneliness · Raising Daughters

0:34
Speaker 1: Oh, folks, Doctor Tim Jordan here, I'm so glad that
0:37
Speaker 1: you stop by so we can have a conversation today,
0:41
Speaker 1: because our conversation today is going to be about loneliness,
0:46
Speaker 1: but mostly about a little bit about causes, but mostly
0:49
Speaker 1: about what can we do about it. In this new year,
0:52
Speaker 1: we hear a lot about the rise in loneliness and
0:55
Speaker 1: our culture. I think there are a lot of reasons.
0:58
Speaker 1: And it's interesting that I read some articles recently about
1:03
Speaker 1: Charles Darwin and he was talking about recent scholarship and neurosciences,
1:10
Speaker 1: developmental psychology, psychiatry, evolutionary anthropology, which was Darwin's bread and butter.
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Speaker 1: They're all emphasizing the empathetic and cooperative nature of all
1:22
Speaker 1: human beings and that you know, people talk about Darwin
1:28
Speaker 1: being about the survival of the fittest, but in reality,
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Speaker 1: a lot of what he talked about in his book
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Speaker 1: was more about cooperation, empathy, the fact that we're all
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Speaker 1: social beings and we truly care about what other people
1:44
Speaker 1: think and feel, and that's why Darwin thought that we
1:48
Speaker 1: survived as a species. It was about cooperation that we
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Speaker 1: want as humans to have close friendships. We want to
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Speaker 1: have close relationships in Darwin's books about evil. He mentioned
2:01
Speaker 1: Survival of the Fittest two times. He mentions love ninety
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Speaker 1: two times. He believed through his research that mancy essential
2:12
Speaker 1: nature was cooperation, not competition. There are a lot of
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Speaker 1: reasons I think that we people today feel more lonely.
2:21
Speaker 1: I did a previous podcast a few years ago. You
2:23
Speaker 1: can go back to that and now listed in my
2:25
Speaker 1: show notes. Americans are marrying later these days, they're more
2:30
Speaker 1: likely to move around, and those two factories are related
2:34
Speaker 1: to people feeling more socially isolated feelings of loneliness. A
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Speaker 1: recent survey of two thousand people across the US ages
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Speaker 1: eighteen to eighty nine found that living alone, having poor
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Speaker 1: health and infrequent social interactions, and also being unmarried predicted
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Speaker 1: loneliness in all age groups. Then, of course, we couldn't
2:58
Speaker 1: have this conversation without blame being social media, which I
3:01
Speaker 1: think deserves some blame. Social media, political polarization in this
3:07
Speaker 1: day and age, new technologies all have played a role
3:11
Speaker 1: in the lack of relationships amongst people. You know, COVID
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Speaker 1: didn't help a few years ago. It deepened the trend.
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Speaker 1: During the pandemic, people and time with friends fell further behind.
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Speaker 1: In twenty twenty one, the average Americans spent only about
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Speaker 1: two hours and forty five minutes a week with their
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Speaker 1: close friends. A lot of our communication today is with
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Speaker 1: our phones, with texts, but things like that, those communications
3:40
Speaker 1: lacked the depth of in person conversations. It lacks the
3:44
Speaker 1: depth of emotion and vulnerability, the one pointed attention. We're
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Speaker 1: only focused on the person that we're looking at. It
3:52
Speaker 1: helps people to feel hurt and important when it's a personal,
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Speaker 1: one on one conversation. The stuff over text, it feels
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Speaker 1: less safe to be vulnerable and open because we don't
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Speaker 1: know who's going to see it, who they are going
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Speaker 1: to pass that on to. There's the researcher name at
4:10
Speaker 1: Shusi Senju, and he said that the part of the
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Speaker 1: brain that allows us to process other people's emotions and
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Speaker 1: intentions are activated by eye contact. An increased eye context
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Speaker 1: makes us more socially aware and empathetic. It allows us
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Speaker 1: to make better sense of our friendships and our relationships.
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Speaker 1: When we're doing things over text and over social media,
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Speaker 1: we miss the bid language, we miss tone of voice,
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Speaker 1: we miss a lot of non verbal cues and the
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Speaker 1: emotional reaction the person's having to you and your words.
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Speaker 1: Not having people's full attention because of all the multitasking
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Speaker 1: and the scrolling and the checking new texts. All that
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Speaker 1: means we feel less connected. It drops our level of
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Speaker 1: emotion or level of connection. I also think that one
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Speaker 1: reason for our isolation these days is our shrinking social
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Speaker 1: contact with people we don't know. Used to be that
5:10
Speaker 1: people in public would talk to each other at the
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Speaker 1: bus stop, at the airport, in line, at the bank,
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Speaker 1: if you're in line anywhere. Today what happens. Everybody's phones
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Speaker 1: are out. Everybody has their head down looking at their phone.
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Speaker 1: They're scrolling and all that kind of thing, and they're
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Speaker 1: not just talking to people. In the old days, there
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Speaker 1: wasn't anything else to do but talk to the person
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Speaker 1: in line with you. I was at the place I
5:34
Speaker 1: work out recently, and I saw a guy who was
5:40
Speaker 1: doing one of those ab rollers. There's a wheel with
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Speaker 1: like a bar in between the middle of it, and
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Speaker 1: you kneel down and you roll it out and you
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Speaker 1: roll back. I started using an ab roller when I
5:53
Speaker 1: was in middle school because my brother brought one home,
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Speaker 1: and I love that thing. I did two sets of
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Speaker 1: twenty of those ever morning, literally every morning for forty years.
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Speaker 1: I don't know. And the only reason I stopped was
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Speaker 1: because I had open heart surgery about six years ago
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Speaker 1: where they cracked my chest open, and the surgeon told me,
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Speaker 1: you can't do those anymore, too much pressure on your chest.
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Speaker 1: So anyway, I saw this guy doing that, and I
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Speaker 1: was saying, yeah, I really missed doing that kind of thing,
6:23
Speaker 1: and so I did something that don't usually do, which
6:25
Speaker 1: is I walked over. I said, I said, you know,
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Speaker 1: I used to do those ad rollers just like that.
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Speaker 1: It was my favorite way to keep my core strength.
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Speaker 1: And I used to do twenty twice a day and
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Speaker 1: I haven't done it And he said, yeah, this is
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Speaker 1: my favorite thing too. And this guy was chiseled. Unlike me.
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Speaker 1: This guy was unbelievably chiseled. So we started talking. It
6:44
Speaker 1: was kind of nice. I'd seen him in the gym before,
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Speaker 1: but it had never stopped to talk to him. I
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Speaker 1: think I have missed those kinds of little, short interactions
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Speaker 1: with people because they were all in our own little worlds,
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Speaker 1: including me. It's also true that people work from home
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Speaker 1: a lot more than they used to, so you're missing
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Speaker 1: those interactions used to have in the hallways at the
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Speaker 1: office at the water cooler. Just a lot more of
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Speaker 1: that personal touch and interactions has been eliminated for our lives.
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Speaker 1: So this isn't something that needs a diagnosis or a
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Speaker 1: cure or a medication. It's just we need to transition
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Speaker 1: and evolve into something different because we're not going to
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Speaker 1: put our phones, we're not going to burn them and
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Speaker 1: never use them again. But despite all those reasons, there
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Speaker 1: are things I think that maybe we can do. Is
7:29
Speaker 1: the new year starts, one of the things you could
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Speaker 1: do is make it packed with yourself and with your
7:35
Speaker 1: close friends, especially about giving each other your full attention,
7:40
Speaker 1: so that maybe when you're sitting around at lunch that
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Speaker 1: everybody puts their phone away, not just on top of
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Speaker 1: the table down, but like in your pocket or in
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Speaker 1: your purse. Because when we see something like that, our
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Speaker 1: brain latches onto it and it's hard not to think
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Speaker 1: about the same way it's hard not to think about
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Speaker 1: eating a piece of chocolate if it's sitting there on
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Speaker 1: the table in front of you. When things like that
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Speaker 1: are in front of us, we see it that our
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Speaker 1: short term brain says, you need that, you want that.
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Speaker 1: It's sort of an emotional response if it's out of sight,
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Speaker 1: out of sight, out of mind in a sense. If
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Speaker 1: you don't see the phone, if you don't see the
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Speaker 1: piece of chocolate cake for at least ten minutes, then
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Speaker 1: our prefrontal cortex activates, and that's the more long term
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Speaker 1: thinking part of our brain that can say to us
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Speaker 1: in that moment, you know what, you don't need that cake,
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Speaker 1: you know what, let's just see something healthier. It's hard
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Speaker 1: to do that when it's right in front of us,
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Speaker 1: including our phones or any other device for that matter.
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Speaker 1: You can have some device free zones when you're with
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Speaker 1: your friends, when you're with your spouse, when you're with
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Speaker 1: your family, that there's no phones at the dinner table,
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Speaker 1: no phones in the car. Instead of talking on your phone,
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Speaker 1: we can all be talking to each other. Perhaps those
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Speaker 1: focused interactions are better than any long, long, disrupted ones.
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Speaker 1: So even but just a ten minute car right, if
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Speaker 1: everybody's actually chatting and laughing and giggling and all that,
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Speaker 1: that's much richer than everybody on their phones. Just the
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Speaker 1: mere presence of a mobile phone when you're with people
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Speaker 1: in hibbits the development of closeness and trust. It just does.
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Speaker 1: It reduces the extent to which people feel empathy, understanding
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Speaker 1: from people they're talking with, from their partners, and the
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Speaker 1: effects were most pronounced if people were talking about personally
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Speaker 1: meaningful topics. I know one of the things that I
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Speaker 1: think we also are lacking in this culture is I
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Speaker 1: think I think this is maybe it's always been somewhat true,
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Speaker 1: I think it's even more so today. I think kids
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Speaker 1: and young adults are lacking social emotional skills, social emotional
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Speaker 1: and learning skills because of what they've grown up with,
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Speaker 1: the ability to talk to people, to talk to strangers,
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Speaker 1: to have a conversation, a deep back and forth conversation
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Speaker 1: where you make eye contact, you talk about important things.
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Speaker 1: That's a muscle that needs to get stronger by using it.
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Speaker 1: The best groups and interactions are the kind where you
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Speaker 1: can give each other feedback and talk about important things
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Speaker 1: and not be so polarized, solving problems together, talking about
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Speaker 1: the gap between where your group is or where your
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Speaker 1: friendship is and where you want it to be. And
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Speaker 1: I think that's one of the things that we do
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Speaker 1: at my weekend retreats in summer camps. We give kids
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Speaker 1: a chance to actually have those kinds of conversations because
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Speaker 1: there are no phones in camp. They're not in their cabin,
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Speaker 1: they're not in their praise or wherever. They're not in
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Speaker 1: their back back, they're at home or maybe in the
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Speaker 1: car ride home with their parents, And that forces all
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Speaker 1: of us staff included, to talk to each other, to
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Speaker 1: really be present. I think our kids are lacking that
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Speaker 1: in their in their lives, vulnerable sharing that we do
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Speaker 1: at camp. I think that makes you and the people
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Speaker 1: around you feel closer. It's it's pushing past the discomfort
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Speaker 1: of closeness that I think a lot of young people
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Speaker 1: feel today, being more authentic, breaking down the barriers between people,
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Speaker 1: and that brings deeper connections and deeper cloness closeness. So
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Speaker 1: it's moments of vulnerability that boosts cooperation. Uh, it makes
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Speaker 1: people feel closer to people, it makes them trust people more.
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Speaker 1: Our brain is constantly tracking the environment and calculating can
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Speaker 1: I trust these people I'm with? Are they people that
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Speaker 1: are trustworthy? Are they people I really want to get
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Speaker 1: to know better? And if you are having one point
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Speaker 1: of attention, because it's not all the distractions, that's going
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Speaker 1: to happen much more. That kind of vulnerability precedes trust.
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Speaker 1: And I think if you want less slowliness and closer relationships.
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Speaker 1: Then you need to have that you to develop deeper trust.
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Speaker 1: I'm with young people a lot girls in grade school,
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Speaker 1: middle school, high school, college, and it's interesting. I think
12:21
Speaker 1: a lot of you have probably seen this, and it
12:23
Speaker 1: doesn't have to be just with your kids. This to commute
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Speaker 1: with adults as well. Where you're sitting around, maybe at
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Speaker 1: the table, having a conversation. It's a good conversation, and
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Speaker 1: then one person gets their phone out and starts looking
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Speaker 1: at and scrolling, and then what happens. A second person
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Speaker 1: picks up their phone, a third person picks up their phone.
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Speaker 1: Then all of a sudden, everybody's looking at their phone.
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Speaker 1: I think that's that's the reason why sometimes it might
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Speaker 1: be good to make agreements with your family, your children,
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Speaker 1: your friends when you're out and about. But you're going
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Speaker 1: to put those those phones away out of sight, not
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Speaker 1: just at the table, but just maybe leave it in
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Speaker 1: the car. God forbid. We would not have our phone
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Speaker 1: with us for an hour. But what happened is an
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Speaker 1: increased depth of conversation and closeness. I think as parents
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Speaker 1: we should model that for our kids, and I think
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Speaker 1: we should pay attention to them when we're with them
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Speaker 1: give they give our kids, they are full. One point attention.
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Speaker 1: I think if you go into any situation with young people,
13:28
Speaker 1: whether you're talking about a classroom, whether you're talking about
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Speaker 1: a cafeteria, walking the hallways of school, I think they're
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Speaker 1: quieter than they used to be because of devices. I
13:40
Speaker 1: haven't been in a hallway of a school for a
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Speaker 1: little while, and there are some schools now that are
13:47
Speaker 1: going to, you know, having no phones, having phones kept
13:50
Speaker 1: in their lockers and all that, and I'm wondering if
13:53
Speaker 1: that has increased the noise and the connections and the
13:55
Speaker 1: talking to each other in the hallways. I think we
13:58
Speaker 1: need to pay attention to that. It's no longer in
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Speaker 1: our culture. It's no longer the cultural norm to talk
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Speaker 1: to people out in public. We have to train people
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Speaker 1: to do that. We have to really encourage our young
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Speaker 1: people to do that, because a lot of them talk
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Speaker 1: about how when they go to college, how awkward they
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Speaker 1: feel meeting people, how awkward they feel even talking to
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Speaker 1: their new roommates and the people in their dorms, because
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Speaker 1: they just haven't done enough to develop those muscles. They
14:28
Speaker 1: need to develop those muscles long before they're walking into
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Speaker 1: a dorm in their first day of college. They need
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Speaker 1: to learn how to talk to people, talk to people
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Speaker 1: they don't know. I was thinking the other day that
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Speaker 1: it might be good besides not giving kids smartphones early.
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Speaker 1: I don't think they're ready for them until they're at
14:47
Speaker 1: least in high school. At least in high school and
14:50
Speaker 1: with a really good track record of being able to
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Speaker 1: connect with people and have a self restraint. That's all
14:56
Speaker 1: those kinds of things. But maybe the first phone should
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Speaker 1: be a flip phone. Even if they have a smartphone.
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Speaker 1: Maybe they're sixteen, they have a smartphone. I thought it
15:05
Speaker 1: might be a good thing for them and us as well,
15:08
Speaker 1: to also own a flip phone that just makes phone calls,
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Speaker 1: no information, no texting, knows, just phone calls, and when
15:18
Speaker 1: we go out have that with us. That might limit
15:20
Speaker 1: it for us and our children. Even little things like
15:26
Speaker 1: my office here is down in our basement, and so
15:30
Speaker 1: a lot of times when I go upstairs, my wife
15:32
Speaker 1: may be up there doing something. I always take my
15:35
Speaker 1: phone with me because I don't know, because I'm used
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Speaker 1: to it. So I decide this this year, I'm not
15:41
Speaker 1: going to take my phone upstairs all the time. I'm
15:42
Speaker 1: going to leave it down here, to have some time
15:44
Speaker 1: without the phone being on my presence, in my pocket, whatever.
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Speaker 1: You can make agreements with your spouse, with your kids,
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Speaker 1: with your friends, to have no TV on when you're watching,
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Speaker 1: when you're having dinner, no phones out on the dinner table,
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Speaker 1: maybe no phones in the kitchen when you're eating meals.
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Speaker 1: You can start making agreements like that that will allow
16:08
Speaker 1: us to have those times when we're giving people our
16:12
Speaker 1: full attention so that our conversations can deepen. We can
16:16
Speaker 1: get used to having more vulnerable, deep conversations so that
16:20
Speaker 1: we're prepared for that when we leave the nest, when
16:23
Speaker 1: they leave the nest. There's a lot of things that
16:26
Speaker 1: people can do if they're lonely. They can do things
16:29
Speaker 1: like volunteer, push themselves to get out of their comfort
16:33
Speaker 1: zones and do things out in the community. I think
16:37
Speaker 1: sometimes I've railed against these club sport things, and I
16:41
Speaker 1: still do and I think sometimes that has helped a
16:45
Speaker 1: little bit for parents because they actually sit in the
16:48
Speaker 1: stands a lot as a chance to talk to other parents.
16:52
Speaker 1: Maybe they can put their phones away and actually meet people.
16:55
Speaker 1: That becomes their community. And I don't think you need
16:59
Speaker 1: to have sixty games a year to develop that you
17:04
Speaker 1: can be on a team where you have fifteen games
17:05
Speaker 1: in a season or twenty games or something of that sort,
17:08
Speaker 1: and not be traveling all over the country and still
17:11
Speaker 1: create that kind of a community with other parents. We
17:14
Speaker 1: need to be intentional about doing that, intentional about creating
17:17
Speaker 1: communities and times when we are fully present, fully focused
17:22
Speaker 1: on the other person, being open, putting ourselves out there
17:27
Speaker 1: so they're resisting this this inclination towards isolation and being
17:34
Speaker 1: involved with our devices and things. So this year, as
17:39
Speaker 1: we start out, maybe you can make a pact with yourself,
17:42
Speaker 1: with your family, with your kids, with your friends about
17:46
Speaker 1: wanting to have times when you are really focused and
17:50
Speaker 1: really increasing the depth of your conversations and thus increasing
17:55
Speaker 1: the trust, increasing the closeness and the cooperation that you
18:00
Speaker 1: have with those people. Be more creative that I'm being
18:07
Speaker 1: There's probably a thousand of things you could do about that,
18:10
Speaker 1: but make if you have the intention of doing that,
18:12
Speaker 1: then you can talk to your friends and say how
18:14
Speaker 1: can we create that? Talk to your kids about how
18:16
Speaker 1: can we create that? And they'll have lots of ideas
18:18
Speaker 1: as well. So I want you to have a cooperative close,
18:25
Speaker 1: vulnerable year with the people that you love and with
18:29
Speaker 1: strangers that you don't even know or haven't met yet,
18:33
Speaker 1: because I think all of us need those connections, even
18:36
Speaker 1: if people look like they don't because they had their
18:38
Speaker 1: face glued to a device. They're wanting the same thing
18:42
Speaker 1: that you do, which is closer connections, cooperation, vulnerability, deeper conversation.
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Speaker 1: So just I would just trust that I would make
18:50
Speaker 1: it happen. I'll put a couple of links in the
18:54
Speaker 1: show notes about some previous podcasts and information about this issue,
18:59
Speaker 1: because I think it's a big one in our culture today.
19:02
Speaker 1: I will be back with a brand new podcast as always,
19:04
Speaker 1: in a week. Always feel free please to pass these
19:07
Speaker 1: on to your friends, maybe too young, young adults who
19:10
Speaker 1: might who might like some of the information on some
19:13
Speaker 1: of these podcasts. I'll be back here in a week
19:15
Speaker 1: with a brand new topic. Thanks so much for stopping by.