Latest / Books4Guys / How to Eliminate Workplace Drama & Build a Culture of Accountability | Alex Dorr

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How to Eliminate Workplace Drama & Build a Culture of Accountability | Alex Dorr · Books4Guys

• 0:13
  SPEAKER_01: Up up a little bit north of that in McKinney.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, man.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I'm from uh northwest Arkansas originally.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_00: Nice.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_00: Oh man, I've got family uh, I guess in the Frisco area.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_00: Oh man, I've I've spent so much time.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_00: I used to live in San Antonio for a little bit.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_00: I've been all around Dallas and Texas, man.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's a good state.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_00: If I didn't live in Tennessee, we'd we'd probably live in Texas.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_01: That's what I hear you.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_01: I got some good friends in Nashville, a good friend of mine from high school, architect there.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_01: So I love going to that area.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_01: There's a lot of conferences in Tennessee.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_01: There's so much good stuff there.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_01: And then I'm originally from Iowa in the Midwest and lived in Omaha, Nebraska for a while.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_01: But I was just kind of like, with my flight and travel, I'm like, let me get to DFW.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_01: I like how big it is down here, the cowboys and all the sports and everything.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_01: Uh and it's easy to get back to Iowa for me with family.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_01: So it works for our family.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_01: But uh, Arkansas, I I have Southeast Oklahoma and then Northwest Arkansas on my list when my kids get a little older to, you know, like Maina, Arkansas, Hot Springs.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_01: I'm really fascinated by the Wachita Mountains, like Southeast Oklahoma.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_01: I don't even know why.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_01: I haven't been there.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_01: I just like got this vibe with it.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_01: And uh so I don't know if that's an area you know, but I uh I can't wait here.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_01: My kids are just a little young to go like cabin up there and things like that.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_00: So that's what's cool, man.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_00: It's there's so many like outdoor areas, but you're like you're in a spot too where you can travel easily to and from.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, Northwest Arkansas is where I'm from, it's the same.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, oh, we can go to Dallas this weekend, we can go to Kansas City this weekend, we can go to Oklahoma City, watch the Thunder game, we can go to the Chiefs game.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's it's easy to get anywhere, and there's direct flights, obviously, with like Walmart and Tyson.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_00: I used to recruit people there, and everyone would be like, Do you guys have an airport?
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, Yeah, man.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_00: Where do you want to go?
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_00: You know, we got the biggest, one of the biggest companies in the world here.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_00: You gotta have an airport.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's uh I see it all the time at DFW, the Northwest Arkansas flight, and I'm like, that thing has gotta be convenient.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_01: So uh Yeah, like I'm flying to Austin today, which sounds crazy.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_01: It's like a one hour, I don't even know, 30-minute flight, but you know, it's that it feels like it'll be that big of a it's kind of that jump to go to Northwest Arkansas.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_00: So no, that's funny, man.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_00: Well, Alex, I dude, I'm so excited to have you on the Books for Guys podcast as all the the research I've done on you and and what you guys are doing at reality-based leadership.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_00: And and by the time this episode comes out, your book will officially be out for people and read and listen to and however else they want to consume it.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_00: And so, dude, can't first off, congratulations, man.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_00: That's a big deal.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_01: It's huge.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_01: Like it took me, it's a backstory.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_01: Some people know it from my audience, but the book was where I've basically written it three times over the last three years, but there's just been some internal business changes, and there was a direction I started with, and then it was like, that's not what our audience needs that loves to lead without drama in the workplace.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_01: They need more something like this.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_01: So so I tweaked it, and now I'm just I'm so proud of what it landed on.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_01: It's like our coaching model to move anyone past drama in their their life or in their in the workplace specifically.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_01: And so it's it's uh yeah, like eight days out from from where we're when we're recording this.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm freaking out.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_01: And then I have, I think on my speaking schedule, 33 events and 35 days around it.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_01: So it's a lot of celebrating, um, getting everybody the books.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_01: So it's a really fun time, but really kind of crazy.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_00: Dude, but that that's that's all good stuff.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_00: And and you'll be busy, but it'll all be very much worth it, I'm sure.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_00: Especially like meeting people who read it and have things to say.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, man, this is just one of those experiences you're gonna look back on and be like, holy cow, that was busy, but holy cow, that was awesome.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_00: I think you nailed it.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_00: But and I want to make sure, so it's on our website, but I want to make sure, you know, for those listening, how we could is the title of the book, the framework for the framework to lead without drama, build alignment, and call teams to greatness.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_00: And man, Alex, as we get into this, I'd I'd like obviously I want to get into your book and talk more about that, but I kind of want to start a little bit at the beginning and just kind of your your life and background that's real that's led you to where you're at now in leading this organization and now authoring a book and obviously speaking all over the place, man.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_00: But just kind of go back a little bit a ways and talk about younger Alex and just kind of how you got the fire to want to share this message more broadly and to work with people and help people become better leaders and help workplaces become a little more drama-free to where, you know, results can happen faster and more efficiently, man.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, how all this get started for you.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_01: Well, so like that, I haven't been asked that question a long time, but it's it's it was totally by accident.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_01: Like I didn't want to be a speaker.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_01: There's there's so many people in the industry and my masterminds that they they knew they wanted to be a speaker.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_01: They were out on like the speaking at schools, like when they were 16, 18 years old, like right away.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_01: They they knew they wanted to speak.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_01: And I didn't have that at all.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't like speech class in high, you know, high school and all that.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_01: But I was a leader.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_01: I played sports growing up, I played baseball and basketball.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_01: And eventually my first career was professional basketball overseas.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_01: And um, I played college and then pro.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_01: And I was a captain on a lot of those teams.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't think my leadership was great.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_01: I kind of led by actions, not really my words and things like that.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_01: But I would say I study drama in the workplace, and I saw some of the most drama in those locker rooms with, you know, big, strong, sweaty men and pros.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_01: Always always drama in the locker room.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_01: And Chris, I don't know if you're an athlete, but like I think we can all attest if you've been an athlete with guys for real, is just some we we study ego in the workplace and lack of accountability and you know, resistance to new change, new coaches, and all that.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_01: Like that's some of the sources I study now, but the patterns were all there.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_01: And and so what happened in my journey was you know, I got introduced to reality-based leadership, this company's core research in a no in a one-hour keynote.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_01: And it was right after I went four wins and 23 losses, my senior year of college.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, my coach is an idiot.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_01: We didn't run the right plays, my teammates all, you know, stunk, and it was everybody else's fault, but but mine, obviously.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_01: And I heard that one hour keynote on this stuff, the initial research on how we blame others, lack of accountability, and it just hit me like a ton of bricks.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_01: And it just was like, it just, you know, those moments that just, whoa, like this person's speaking to me.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_01: So then I reached out, I just loved the philosophy.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_01: I interned at the organization.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_01: I basically said anything I could do and I wanted to help.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_01: And I got put on some projects to uh one of the things we do is a certification to train other leaders and companies to deliver our stuff, helped on that project.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_01: And then right when I started to intern there, at the same time I got an offer to play overseas.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_01: And as I spent the summer learning the books and the material and where drama comes from and how to lead beyond drama, I thought, why not try and implement it in a leadership role when I go overseas?
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_01: And so our team ended up winning championships there, played a lot better, had a different mindset.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_01: And then I also started working over there and being a little bit of a leader in a company over there.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_01: And I just noticed all these patterns and techniques helped to do the same hard work, but more effortlessly.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_01: And so after that experience, I wanted to come back and say, how can I help grow this company?
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_01: And as I came back, I knew a lot about social media, things like that.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_01: I was just trying to help at reality-based leadership.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_01: And then eventually there was a woman in banking conference.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_01: Women in banking, 200 female leaders in banking in Omaha, Nebraska.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_01: They needed a female speaker.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_01: And our roster at the time, everybody was out speaking, and I was the guy off the bench who'd been certified to speak to help sell it.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_01: And I had spoken for maybe 10 minutes on the content, but I knew a lot of the books.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_01: And they said, Alex, do you want to do this speech?
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_01: And of course, I wanted to say no with every source of my being, but I said yes.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_01: And I remember being at the embassy suite in Omaha, you know, 30 minutes before my speech at 8 a.m.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_01: It was at 8:30.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, I'm not gonna do this.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_01: I had to, you know, I bodily functions were being crazy.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_01: I was about to pass out.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_01: And it was one of those moments, it's like you get on stage or you're never gonna do this again.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_01: And I got on stage and it was, I'm like, I never want to do that again.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_01: I was nervous.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_01: I still have the video of it.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_01: I can't even watch it.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_01: It's so horrendous, but it it went okay, I guess.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_01: And sure enough, out of 200 people, you can convince two to say, oh, come talk to our bank and Grand Island, Nebraska.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_01: So then I said yes to those two.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_01: And then our company had leads coming in.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_01: I just kept saying yes and yes, wherever it sent me, basically at whatever price.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_01: And my speaking went from like 30 gigs the first year to 50 to 70 to 120.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_01: Then I was at 175 one year.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_01: And then it's around about 125, 150 a year of gigs.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_01: So it just I kept saying yes, and the stages got bigger and just kept learning.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_01: That's kind of the short but long story about my journey so far.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_00: Well, dude, I love, I love all of that because that's a big I man, I just like hearing people share that journey because it's never easy.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_00: And I think a lot of people, you know, if people didn't know who Alex was and they see what you're doing, book, leading a company, speaking all over, it's like, oh man, guys just been crushing it his whole life, you know.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_00: But but they don't get to hear maybe the story of, oh my God, my first speaking engagement, you know, I'm freaking out, I'm sweating, I don't, I don't, I can barely talk.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_00: I'm I'm I'm mumbling my words.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_00: Not an ideal, you know, probably situation in general for my first speaking engagement.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_00: So, but but to hear you say, like, who cares, man?
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna say, yeah, I'm probably gonna suck.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm just gonna keep saying yeah until I get better.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_01: And it was the way it leads, though.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_01: It's that's what's so cool about it.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_01: It was really about saying yes.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, obviously I had that athletic background.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_01: So I I studied my stories.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_01: I had practiced the flow of our training content.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_01: I knew the slides.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_01: So I had all the elements.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_01: It was just, you know, those things you gotta refine.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_01: And and I someone asked me once, like, when did you stop getting like really nervous?
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_01: Because that night I still remember you're giving me so many flashbacks.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I sweat through my sheets.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_01: The speech was like a curse.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_01: Like it kept running in my head.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_01: I could not sleep.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_01: I did not, like, I I was in bed from like 11 o'clock all the way till I got in the car at 7:30 to drive to the venue and I hadn't slept.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it was like, it was just excruciating.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I don't know if anybody talks about this, and maybe it's just me being so nervous for that speaking thing.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_01: But but that that was like that.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_01: It got a little bit better, but like for three or four years, and I've been doing this 12 years now.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't know if people share that unless you're just destined to speak.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_01: But I could finally start to get a little bit of sleep, but that speech, man, would just keep running and you'd be like, oh, what if they bring that this?
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_01: And and what if they ask this question?
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_01: And what if they're like, oh, but got you here?
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_01: And so some of that comes with experience and having some tools to redirect the speech if someone has a really hard question.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_01: And I, you know, that's come with the the practice.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, I remember like three or four years, there was just sleepless nights, and you and you just it was like a curse you have that you keep running your speech in your head and you're not, you don't feel as present with your family sometimes as you're running through it, you know?
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_01: And I just I think it's important to share that that it's not all just glorious and glamorous at elements of building this career.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_00: Man, well, that leads me to a pretty interesting question, I think, in that obviously like you, you've put yourself in a position where you coach a lot of others and and you're helping other people be better.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_00: What did you do particularly, especially in those early years where you're you're learning and and perfecting your craft to get better every day?
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_00: Was it something where you had coaches, like whether that be speech coaches or or writing coaches, or just uh, you know, lack of a better term, like confidence building coaches in these things?
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what did you do to be able to get to where you're at now where it's like, hey man, I'm I'm I'm a long way away from where I started?
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, it's a great question.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_01: So, in my situation, so we had a founder that had been doing reality-based leadership work for about 20 years at the time.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_01: And so there was a lot of uh experience there on running a speaking business, what to try and what not to do.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_01: So I had some direction there that I'm really grateful for.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_01: Let me give you an example.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_01: Like I really love the mindset side of ditching the drama for athletes.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_01: And so I went on a route where I was like, oh, I really want to teach this at colleges with young athletes and maybe even their athletic programs.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_01: And my our founder at the time said, you can do that.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_01: But as far as the business side, and again, you can do it, you're not gonna tap into some of that corporate budget and some of those bigger events that can lead to like ongoing training.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_01: But you might have, if it's really your passion, you can do a lot of gigs at that lower rate with, you know, college athletes.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_01: And so, like that directionally kept me from making that content online to pigeonhole me into like the athletic mindset speaker.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_01: And I was able to make sure I stayed on this corporate path that then helps me when I want to give back, I can go work with a volleyball club or I can go work with like once I worked with the University of Oregon, you know, like I can do that, but you have that corporate engine of there's a lot more opportunities there.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_01: And so I had a lot of that advice that was helpful.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_01: But a lot of people in our space, um, and this isn't a knock, it actually helped me.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_01: I thought our founder like really taught me everything about speaking.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_01: But the thing about a successful speaking business is the speakers are always gone.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_01: So she'd be gone four or five days.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_01: So what I did is I we have this tool called thinking inside the box.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_01: And what it is is you have your goal, which me was to improve my speaking and be a better trainer.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_01: And then there's all these I call them constraints or your excuses, and you put them on the outside.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_01: So it's like she's gone four days a week.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_01: I want her mentorship.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_01: I can't really get, you know, one-on-ones with her as much as I'd like.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, you know, so I put all my my frustrations out there, and then I thought, how do I think inside the box to still get to my goal?
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_01: So stop making excuses and wishing for a different reality and arguing with it.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_01: Let's say, given this is the founder I have and the team we have, how can I still get to my goal?
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_01: And I I would sit with that tool.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_01: It's one of the tools we teach.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_01: And most people get mad.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_01: They're like, well, she should sit down and train me and teach me everything she knows.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_01: And and I thought, given we're busy right now, we can't do that.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_01: What could I do in the box?
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_01: And and I started to just record her sessions.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_01: I'd watch those almost like study and film.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_01: What's her cadence?
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_01: What was the you know, like every song has the same four chords.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_01: So learn the the fundamentals and then bring your stories into that.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_01: And then how does when someone asks a question in the audience, how does she take that question, put it back into our framework?
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_01: So then you're reinforcing what you teach.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_01: And so I would take the video.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_01: I don't need anybody there to watch the video.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_01: And then I would sit in every time she's on a sales call, sit in on that.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_01: How do you go against when someone says, oh, the price might be this?
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_01: What is that?
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_01: And so you just don't make excuses.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_01: You just keep thinking in the box to get to your goal.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_01: And then I would study the greats in our industry right now.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_01: That's Brene Brown, Simon Sinek, Adam Grant, Dan Pink, and Mel Robbins.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_01: So you just watch a lot of their videos.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_01: What are they doing?
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_01: How are they on stage versus how they are in their audiobook versus podcast?
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_01: And you just get a lot of that immersion.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_01: And you don't need to have a coffee with Brene Brown an hour a week to get that mentorship.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_01: It's right there for you.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think what I did a lot of was doing that.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_01: So then I was not like a burden to my mentor.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_01: And then there'd be moments from all that work I was doing that I would get that that, you know, every two weeks, get that one-on-one, and we would just catch up on some things.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think that's a way that uh I didn't really have a coach, so to speak, but you could find that coaching if you're good at inside the box thinking.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_00: Dude, a lot to unpack right there.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_00: Cause you you brought up several points.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_00: I've I've my my wheels are turning.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_00: Number one, it was cool.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_00: I've I've seen Mel speak and it was really cool.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_00: I saw her about, I guess, 10 years ago now.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_00: Nice.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_00: And uh to see like where she's at now, even from then, it's like, holy cow, she's just crushing it.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_00: And I still catch up on her podcast and read pretty much every book she comes out with.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_00: So uh yeah, a great example there.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um I was thinking too, man, I it goes back to you mentioned it earlier when we kicked things off, kind of about that personal accountability piece.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_00: It is, man, it's it so many people have excuses.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_00: And it's it's one of those things you've got to like figure out for yourself how to switch that to the the accountability piece where you say everything's like how can I make the situation better and take it off anyone else.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, there's something so freeing about it because then you realize just how much you can do and how much you can accomplish without relying on anyone else, man.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_00: Like you, like, yeah, you can't, you may not be able to spend an hour with someone you really want to, but you can go watch the video.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_00: And I talk about that with books all the time, too.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, hey man, these are blueprints.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_00: Like you not everyone can go hang out with Tony Robbins, but man, read the books.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_00: Or hey, you want to be a business leader.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_00: There's so many books on how to do it.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_00: You want to be the best athlete.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_00: Well, man, go read Kobe Bryant's book, man.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_00: Like, learn learn the mindset you gotta have to go be the best.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_00: And uh so I just love that you brought that piece up because I'm a big proponent of talking about that personal accountability.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, one of my favorite books is called QBQ, it's from John Miller.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_00: So it I actually had him on the podcast, and I read it every January.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_00: It's just kind of a refresher of like, hey, get the mind right for the year, and let's go attack it and do what I can control and go make it happen.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_00: But going into your book a little bit more, too.
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's awesome you wrote this because obviously it's kind of what you said.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_00: You're gonna be able to reach so many more people by having a book than what you could do, even just coaching or speaking.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_00: So you've opened up a whole nother audience of people that can learn from you and your team and what you guys are doing.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_00: We we talked a lot about drama, like workplace drama.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm curious, because I I'm man, I'm just and maybe I'm a dude.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_00: Like I just I don't do well with it.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, I don't care.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I don't really want to listen to it.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_00: I just want to get the task done and let's do it at a at a high level.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_00: And and, you know, I'm like, man, if we all thought like that, we'd get stuff done.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_00: Is the main culprit of why there is so much workplace drama out there?
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_01: Well, it's there's a couple things you have me thinking that I've just been reflecting on lately is so a lot of people are like that, and and I can be like that too.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_01: And I found that um the bigger your life gets, the more drama is gonna come your way.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_01: It's just how skillful you are at managing it.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_01: And so what I find is uh like some so first thing I'd say is I there's what I call loud drama and silent drama.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_01: So we've studied the sources, and what are the more loud dramas that you and I, a lot of times, and people with what you know, the mindset that you just said are like, just get that out of here.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_01: That's more the gossiping, tattling, venting water cooler.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_01: That's there's a lot of that.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_01: Trust me, there's a lot of that drama.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_01: It's also the ruminating, where like I'll work with accountants and engineers where they're like, I don't really gossip that much, or I don't really, you know, at the water cooler do a lot of what I call BMW driving, bitchy, moaning, whining.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_01: But what they do is as someone's talking, in their heads, they're like, oh my gosh, they have no idea what they're talking about, and they're absolute idiot.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_01: They don't understand the specs on this.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, continue, tell me more.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_01: So they're acting engaged, but they're ruminating with stories, ego, judgment, assignments, emotive.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_01: So you're like, I'm not really that dramatic, except I'm full of judgment the whole day of everyone else that's not as smart as me.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_01: That's ego, which is about 32% of the drama in our research.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_01: And on also in our research at reality-based leadership, the average person spends two and a half hours per day in drama.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes it's the obvious loud stuff, which is the ego-based judging, tattling, venting, scorekeeping.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_01: The next source of drama, then that's close to that.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_01: If I'm in ego, I usually lack accountability.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_01: I blame a lot.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_01: That's about 23% of the drama.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_01: And then the more silent drama that I think is right now bigger issue in the organizations I consult with is lack of alignment to strategy or decisions.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_01: That can be silent.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_01: Where I'm in the meeting, I nod my head yes to the new strategy, the restructure, the uh, you know, how we're gonna have our teams do things differently, how we're gonna implement AI enhancements to our work.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_01: I nod my head, but I actually don't buy into the strategy at all.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_01: And I just do my own thing and I kind of sabotage it underneath.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_01: There's a ton of that lack of alignment going on.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_01: Some of it's knowingly, some of it's unknowingly.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_01: And then if you're not aligned, the next one naturally is I resist change.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_01: I only have one option to risk resist change because it's not my preference.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_01: I don't like where we're going with the strategy.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm just gonna resist it to show I told you so.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_01: And again, I'm not saying people are overtly doing this, but there's a lot of accidental, like covert resistance like that.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_01: So you might say, ah, I just don't deal with the drama.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of people do that, but then they are the most resistant to strategy because they think they know better.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_01: And then they resist change because they're like, I wouldn't do this if I ran the place.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, but do you run the place?
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_01: And they're like, no.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_01: But if I did, I go, well, then it's not you to set the strategy.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_01: So I don't know if you're smiling a bit, but those are the silent dramas that I see people that are like, I just try and stay out of it.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_01: That's what they get into.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_00: No, I'm laughing because I I don't know, like, I don't think I fit all of that, but I definitely have my moments where I'm maybe on a call or something and I I just check out because I'm like, they don't know what they're talking about, or this is something that I just don't care about.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_00: So I, you know, I'm zoning out.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_00: So as you're saying that, I'm like, dang, man, I haven't thought about that.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_00: But that is a part of this drama that, you know, maybe I'm not really aware of, but you know, as I as I learn more about what this piece of it is, I'm like, dang, I do do that sometimes.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_00: Like I need to I need to check myself.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: But then you're kind of disengaged.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, that big stat in the workplace Gallup puts out every year is like, what's the engagement level?
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_01: If you've seen that at work, I always crack up because every year it's like 70% of America's disengaged.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_01: And my I always like the problem is they keep coming to work and collecting a paycheck.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_01: Meaning you're like in the meeting, collecting resources.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_01: You're supposed to, we need your expertise, Chris, to continue to engage with us.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_01: And you're checked out being like, oh, these people know what they're talking about.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm just gonna, you know, nod my head.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, we need your expertise to figure out these problems.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_01: Stay in with us.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_01: And so that's what I guess a lot of my work is helping people know what helps and what hurts.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_01: And then normalizing that this is the human condition.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_01: Like I teach this for a living and I screw it up and only daily.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_01: You're not gonna do it perfectly, but can you catch when you're in a source of drama with your team early and call a timeout and then respectfully get into in in the book, I have tools for how we could, like get from why we can't to how we could.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_01: So I try and make it really practical with tools so teams can call a timeout, come together, and get back engaged.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_00: Well, this is cool, man, because obviously, I mean, you you you guys can stay plenty busy, you know, coaching in this space.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_00: And and it's number one, it's a lesson that we all, you said it yourself, like you coach it, but it's a lesson that we all need over and over and over again because so many things, man, people are so hard to predict.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_00: And and there's there's new generations coming into leadership.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_00: There's AI, people are leading differently now than before, just because of let's COVID, people working from home, hybrid schedules.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_00: There's so many dynamic things that can cause some of these disengagement or drama, and and and some of that's just based off where we're at in the world today.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_00: And so I'm sure even for you, like from 10 years ago to now, there's probably some things you coach on a little bit differently than you did.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's so true.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, one of the biggest things that came out in the book.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_01: So there's a framework I put in it.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_01: That's the main finding in the book.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_01: And it used to be with drama, there'd be how we train basically is like someone's venting.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_01: I call it whack-a-mole.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_01: It's like someone's venting.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_01: Chris is upset, whack-a-mole with this tool.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_01: And that works.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_01: And we call it edit your story, which is basically where you write down the whole story about why you're stressed, and then you edit it down to the facts.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_01: And we're just, what do we know for sure?
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_01: And then from the facts, it's easy to figure out what's the next thing to do to add value without the I'm surrounded by idiots and no one cares, and I do everything around here.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_01: So that was the tool.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I realized that this one-off approach is like leaders would say, I'm busy, give me the one thing I can do to quickly squelch the drama.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_01: Well, it would work, but sometimes it was from 10 years ago, people would say it's not very loving, it's not caring, like it's kind of harsh.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_01: And what I realized in all of my work I was doing is I actually had the five-step process I'd go through to help someone through where they're stuck or frustrated to what they could do about it.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_01: And if you got snagged on any of those steps, you'd start to get a lot of suffering, basically.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_01: The the thing you'd feel is suffering.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_01: And so the first step was I love you up.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_01: Meaning, Chris, that's really frustrating.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_01: We don't get the information you need.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_01: That's that that stinks.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_01: So I just do a little bit of instead of getting right to problem solving, like what do we do about it?
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_00: Empathy first.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_01: It's I validate your experience and your feelings.
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_01: And and and that's what I feel like we had skipped in our past work.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_01: We assumed people were doing that.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_01: And then from there, before we get into next right action, that's step five.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_01: Step two is clean up thinking.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_01: And I already gave that example a bit, but it's like I helped figure out what are the facts here.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_01: What's the real problem?
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_01: Are we judging, assigning motive, all of that?
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_01: And then step three in the book is now that we've got clear on the problem, what's our part in it?
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_01: Like what's your part in the mess?
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_01: And that's where accountability comes in, which you talked about is how's this pattern happening?
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_01: Where am I saying yes when I mean no?
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_01: What's my contribution or our team's contribution to the problem?
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_01: And instead of just finger pointing.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_01: And then the big one to get to my point here is in step four is know your role in the solution.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_01: And that is basically am I operating from the wrong role for what the situation merits?
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_01: And I see a lot of people really struggling right now is they're taking a lot of action, they're really busy, but if they zoomed out, they'd realize they're trying to operate from the wrong role.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_01: And how do I know that?
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_01: Someone would be like, why wasn't I consulted on this decision?
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_01: Or I hear this all the time.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_01: If they would just ask the people closest to the work, they wouldn't suggest these crazy things.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_01: So what they're trying to do is there's three roles.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_01: Are you a decision maker?
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_01: Have you been asked to be a consultant in the situation?
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_01: Or are you a good person to be informed?
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_01: I call it.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_01: And what would when you hear like, why wasn't I consulted on this?
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_01: The person is trying to drive themselves into the consultant role, meaning, here's our goal, here's what we could do about it and the cost benefit.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_01: They want to be in that consulting role, but they're not.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_01: Otherwise, they would have been consulted.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_01: And then they're like, Why don't they ask the people closest to the work before making this decision on our new software or our workflow?
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, well, are you the decision maker?
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_01: They're like, let me think about that.
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_01: I go, then you're not.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_01: Like if you have to think about it, you're not.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_01: And so you're in this third role, which is a good person to be informed of the problem.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_01: And I love that you've named three challenges with where we're at.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_01: Now I need you to give in those challenges, think inside the box, and help us get to our goal, next right action.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_01: But if you're trying to fight that role and you're like, well, why can't I be the decision maker?
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, are you?
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I don't know.
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_01: Then you're not.
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_01: You got to get to that right role.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think what I'm coaching a lot on now, definitely since COVID, is the roles have gotten all ambiguous.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_01: So people are really frustrated.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_01: And some organizations need to go back and get back to the basics and say, what are our decision making authorities?
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_01: Like who approves this?
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_01: Who doesn't?
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_01: Who's the true decision maker or makers?
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_01: Is there is there a board?
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_01: Is there a small group?
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_01: Is it one person that signs off on these big things?
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_01: And who's in support of that decision?
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's really changed the most is that drama around roles.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_00: Well, we kind of brought this full circle rather quickly back to reality-based leadership.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_00: And there's a little bit of tough love involved with this, too, of having to look in the mirror and go, hey, where, where do I stand?
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_00: Where, what is my position?
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_00: Going back to sports.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_00: Like sometimes you're you're not the guy that needs to score 30 points and shoot the ball 30 times a game.
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes you need to play defense and get rebounds and and just bring energy.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_00: And and do your part.
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_00: But there's a lot of people that I can see that, especially right now, where there is maybe some some blurred lines or confusion of what you need or don't need to do, and and maybe just and that could be lack of communication, like you said too, of alignment, everyone knowing where they need to be in the in the game.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_00: So to say.
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_00: And so yeah, it's interesting, man.
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_00: I I um you know, I work for a great organization.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_00: I brag about them all the time.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, man, I'm so blessed to be here because for the most part, I do feel like we're aligned and in the leadership does a great job.
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_00: But I've also worked other places where a lot of things you're talking about.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, man, I I remember this, and it was frustrating because you know, you you want to know what you're doing wrong, how you can be better.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you also want to know, like, hey, what should I do?
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_00: What shouldn't I do?
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what is my role here?
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_00: And uh yeah, man, it's just it's interesting.
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_00: We we're all busy, and that that's probably a a big culprit.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_00: And we do that to ourselves a lot too, you know, back to personal accountability.
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_00: We probably put more on our plate than needed most days.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_00: But uh no, I just find all this fascinating because it's it is interesting.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_00: I'm I mean, you study it way more than me, but it's it's certainly something I've looked into.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_00: Just like how organizations operate, why why are ones so successful?
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_00: Why do why do some get voted best workplaces and they also perform at high level?
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_00: And why do others fail?
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_00: You know, they paid well, but the culture sucked, you know, like what drives all of this?
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_00: And I just I'm sure you get like almost nerd-like about it, like trying to figure out the statistics and like little data points.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_00: Because I I mean I'm having fun thinking about it now and I've only talked with you for 30 minutes.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you know, that's so really like if I go back to the mission of what I do and what really fuels me is I believe that work can be effortless and teams are drama-free, can be drama-free.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_01: And it's almost like there's these two worlds.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_01: There's like the one that's full of drama, and then there's the one where you are skillful enough to recognize it, call a timeout, and then I would say use the five-step framework to move you or anyone beyond it to the world of like just peacefully, although there's still work to do, getting stuff done that hopefully if you work at an organization where you believe in the mission, it then is it changes the world.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_01: You know, if you're in healthcare, you're people are leaving healthier than when they came in.
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_01: You know, whatever you do, you're contributing value to the world in the best way through that.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_01: And the challenge is when you don't have the skills or tools to get out of the drama.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think that's really hopeful because it is things are changing, of course, and it's getting complex.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_01: So I think you need an anchor, we need a framework that we can count on that gives us all confidence that no matter what unpreferred reality comes our way, we have a way to call a timeout, go through five steps and end up at next right action.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_01: And if we end the week doing that as much as we can, we'll be really happy with where we end up.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_01: And then I often say, not that you want to focus on competition.
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_01: I know some speakers don't say that, but I always think the game we're playing is on drama when we're competing.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_01: So if you and I, Chris, are being chased by a tiger, I don't have to beat the tiger.
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_01: I just have to beat you.
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_01: And I think about that for everyone trying to solve, you know, the shortages of talent and staff, the workplace, like best place to work.
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_01: You know, if I'm coming out of college and I'm, let's say I'm an accounting and I am a high accountable, really good worker, and I'm trying to pick between like two organizations.
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_01: And I say, organization A, what do they do there?
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_01: They're they hold you to a high standard.
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_01: They really stop judging and start helping each other.
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_01: People get really aligned, they focus on how to make each other successful.
• 32:07
  SPEAKER_01: If I'm a high accountable, I'm like, that sounds amazing.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_01: If I'm someone that's a little bit lazy, low in accountability, I get into victim mindsets.
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_01: I don't really want to kind of want to just coast through things.
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm looking at those two.
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_01: This other one over here, it's like, what about organization B?
• 32:21
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, well, they kind of stab each other in the backs and it's totally dysfunctional and there's not a lot of accountability.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_01: If I'm a low accountable, I might be like, that's my place, but I want to create this environment.
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_01: So, how we could and the tools in it help leaders create that culture where high accountables are attracted to it like a bug in the light, and then others want to join that.
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_01: And one thing I've known from 12 years doing this is highly accountable people want to work with other highly accountable people accountable people.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_01: They don't really sit right though with low accountables.
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_01: And so it's not about no diversity, it's about mindset.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_01: And so I want a diverse team that has that highly accountable mindset that focuses on how we could.
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_01: That's the sweet spot.
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_01: And I say all this to finish on this topic is because I look at all this, the biggest predictor of happiness and results long term in the research, in the psychology, is your level of accountability.
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_01: It's internal locus of control.
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_01: They've we've known this for years, definitely for since the 80s.
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_01: So that's why all of our tools help to move you from victim mindset to in this moment, I can't control all of it, but here's my space for impact.
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_01: That leads to more happiness, engagement results, which is what every company wants.
• 33:29
  SPEAKER_01: It's what every, I would say every human wants as well, whether they they know it or not.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_00: Man, that's good stuff, Alex.
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_00: I again, I I all all stuff that I fully buy into.
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_00: And again, it's just it's good reminders for me, just from listening to you speak on it.
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm excited to read your book because I I like having that that way of digging in and just having something that keeps me accountable.
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_00: I we just said it.
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just in there thinking, I'm like, yeah, you know, I like things that make me think, like, hey, how can I be better today?
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_00: What can I do to to get 1% better and do better at this or advance, you know, in this area of life.
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_00: And you're right, man.
• 34:07
  SPEAKER_00: I I I look at the people that I surround myself with, and they're all people that challenge me.
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_00: And I go, man, I want to do what they're doing, you know.
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_00: And they say the same thing to me.
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_00: So it's a good, you know, iron sharpens iron.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_00: I guess you can kind of, as I'm thinking about it, I'm like, man, I'm I feel good about the people that are around me.
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_00: But it's a good message to have.
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_00: Alex, one last question for you.
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I'm so excited.
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_00: We've got your book on the website.
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_00: Like I said, when this when this episode comes out, I hope everyone goes and purchases your book and dives into it.
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_00: We'll do a book giveaway of one of the copies as well.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_00: Nice.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_00: So when this one's out.
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_00: But last question for you, I asked this for everyone that comes on the podcast.
• 34:43
  SPEAKER_00: Just more of a book question.
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_00: I'm always curious to know what is a book or two that has meant a lot to you personally or professionally, and and what's one you love to recommend to others?
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_01: This one really hit me recently.
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_01: It's called Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance.
• 35:03
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_01: And I forget what the guy's name is.
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_01: It's Robert something, but uh it gave me the feel of like Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_01: But like from this guy riding a motorcycle and like tangenting into leadership and mindset and quality.
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_01: He calls it quality.
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_01: And the book was just like a trip for me.
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_01: And I had just recently learned how to ride a motorcycle as a way to break through some limiting beliefs I had.
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_01: This was around COVID.
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_01: And then this book just found me at an airport and it was like Zen and the art of motorcycle maintenance.
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_01: I just grabbed it and at one of the airports on a trip, and it was like fascinating.
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_01: So it it I think it was a guy just reflecting on this ride he went with uh people that he focused on like maintenance and his zone bike, and he had made it himself versus others that had just bought a fancy bike off a dealership and how they don't really understand how the engine works and all that and his judgments.
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_01: Like I could go into it forever, but it's got life lessons.
• 36:05
  SPEAKER_01: It's funny to me.
• 36:06
  SPEAKER_01: And so that would be a different one, I think, for your audience that I loved.
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_00: Man, no one's ever recommended that one.
• 36:13
  SPEAKER_00: And you made it sound awesome.
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm adding it to my reading list.
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_00: And uh it's interesting.
• 36:17
  SPEAKER_00: When I read it, I'll I'll message you and let you know when I do, let you know what I think because it sounds awesome.
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_00: But let me know.
• 36:23
  SPEAKER_00: Alex, man, I'm wishing you so much success.
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you've already had a ton, but I hope this book, man, just lands and I hope tons of people read it.
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_00: I hope it leads to an incredible number of speaking engagements in the near future and long term.
• 36:36
  SPEAKER_00: And man, just keep keep building what you're building because it's very cool.
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_00: It's a great message.
• 36:41
  SPEAKER_00: Man, no doubt, you guys have so much impact you you can have and will continue to have in the workplace.
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_00: And so, man, appreciate you being a part of the Books for Guys journey, and we're always here to support you as well.
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for having me, and I appreciate everyone supporting.
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_01: And uh, let's keep loving people up, but don't forget to call people up to greatness.
• 36:57
  SPEAKER_01: So tough love, baby.
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_00: Tough love.
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks, Alex.
• 37:01
  SPEAKER_00: You're welcome.