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AI And The Future Of Paraplanning with Templi | Jack Sleator · Financial Planner Life Podcast

• 0:03
  SPEAKER_00: If you're a parapanner, there's probably one question about AI that matters more than the others.
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_00: Is this technology going to make you better at your job or potentially take it?
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_00: Because AI is already writing reports, analysing meetings, moving information from system to system, and completing work that used to take people hours.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_00: Now, this conversation today is bigger than productivity.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_00: If AI removes repetitive work, how do the junior new people in a financial advice business learn?
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_00: Who takes responsibility when AI gets something wrong?
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_00: And are we just using incredible technology to reproduce 40-page reports, just slightly faster?
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_00: Today I'm joined by Jack Sleeter, he's the founder of Templi.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_00: Jack's works in financial planning, administration, and power planning himself.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_00: And now he's building technology at Temply to connect that advice journey together.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_00: We're going to get into the jobs, the reports, and the messy data, along with trust, accountability, and the advice gap.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_00: And finally, we're going to look at what a genuinely AI-enabled financial planning firm looks like.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_00: So let's get stuck in.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_01: So, Jack, do you reckon AI is going to replace power planners?
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_01: It's a good question.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, we hear all the time is AI going to replace financial advisors?
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_01: But maybe we don't think as much about power planners.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_01: So, short answer, no, I don't think it will, but it will change the jobs to do today.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_01: And I do believe it will impact potentially negatively the pathways in that career.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_00: What part do you think will change then in the power planner role then?
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_00: If it's not going to replace a power planner, which I've spoken to a few tech companies, and they seem to think it will.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_00: So it's interesting to hear your views on why it won't first actually.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_00: Why do you think it won't do that?
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_01: So the job's going to change.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_01: So right now, like the day-to-day of a power planner, it can be it's nuanced firm to firm.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_01: When I did it myself, like in different firms, sometimes it was kind of the whole advice journey.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_01: There was admin tasks, there was writing reports, there was doing technical research, maybe it was providing support in an area of specialism that an advisor didn't have, sometimes going to client meetings.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_01: So I think all of those document-based and admin workflows can be replaced, and it's going to be there's going to be new jobs for a power planner to do.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_01: So the big thing for me is when firms start using AI to go faster, and this is for any industry in the world, there's more human review needed, right?
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_01: Because a human has to review these outputs.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't think we're built to spend our days reviewing the outputs from AI.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_01: There's only so much cognitive load you can take.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_01: So my kind of viewpoint is that power planners have this expertise and this technical skill, and they will be needed to review some of the output and work from AI.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_01: If financial advisors, if we're going to free them up with these new tools to spend more time with clients and go out and win business, they don't have time to be reviewing the work from suitability report writing or other tasks and workflow, like research calculations.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_01: So we still need that technical know-how from the power planner.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_01: And I think in terms of the opportunity, then beyond that, we can see power planners specializing in different areas.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_01: We can see them supporting the actual client-facing journey for advisors as well.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_01: So I think their role is changing, and it's not necessarily a bad thing that some of these jobs to be done, as we kind of like to look at them, are moving out of the workflow.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_00: Love it.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_00: So you've been a power planner, some of those jobs that you did in the past.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_00: Which ones do you think are going to go?
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_00: And which ones is it the monotonous, boring ones, the ones that they don't really want to do, the time-wasting jobs?
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_01: So, like for me, kind of my main years power planning, we're we're spent even partners in Newcastle, and it was a great, great job, like a really good office.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_01: And I did move into advice well at that company.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_01: But when I joined that firm, power planning was very siloed.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_01: You're writing big, long, complex reports, and these were really, really long, kind of suitability report documents that could take sometimes over a day to write.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_01: So that kind of task of writing, like that's definitely going to be replaced, in my opinion, by AI.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_01: I think we can do it today.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_01: There's the elements of compiling the research and evidencing it, that can be replaced as well.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_01: Technical calculations, I think that can also be replaced.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_01: So any of these document-based workflows, they're they're not beyond the possibility of automating.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_01: And I think we can do a lot of that already, but it's that human review and scrutiny and technical chops, if you like to call it, is is what is what matters and will continue to matter.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um so that's that's my kind of view on it.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_00: And what about power planning, you know, as as they stand at the moment?
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_00: So the the individuals who actually love getting stuck into a report and writing it, um, do you think their power planners that they're going to stay around, or will they be upskilled to do different things?
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_00: And if so, what things do you foresee that being?
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_01: I think if they're good at that today, right?
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_01: There's a reason they're good at it.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_01: It's they've they have experience, they have know-how, they have probably a good eye and attention for detail, and none of those skills become less valuable.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_01: I I think it'll be a shame in some elements, but they can still take pride ultimately in the work they're creating.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_01: I think there's an opportunity to learn new skills of using these tools.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_01: At the end of the day, it's not really the AI writing all these things.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_01: Like you're still operating the tools and the advice still belongs to the firm and the advisor.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_01: So I think you need to move away from like clinging on to maybe things we like about the day-to-day and start thinking about well, what are the bits my job maybe I could do that I don't have time to do now?
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe that could be upskilling in a certain way, spending more time to get really, really um skilled in a particular area of planning.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe it's going out to more client meetings and helping support that advice journey with advisors.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_01: So, like instead of seeing the power planner role as just a siloed job to one task.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_01: And I think in many cases, and probably still at the moment, there's almost like a downward vacuum on career progression.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_01: So, like big firms need power planning resources, especially with consolidation.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_01: You bring new firms in, you need to write advice reports, you need to do a lot of power planning-based work, and that maybe can stop people progressing because there's an actual need for their skills today in the firm.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_01: So I think it can change that, right?
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_01: It can it can create those new opportunities for those sort of workers as well.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but it's really their skills and experience is is the real value.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_00: Do you think power plans will also move very much so into like a relationship role as well?
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_00: So spending more time with clients.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think completely, but I think it's I think it's a possibility in some firms.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_01: It'll depend firm to firm.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_01: Like if firms like to ring fence the role quite a lot today to technical tasks away from clients, that'll get faster with it with AI.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_01: We can make those things go quicker.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_01: But if firms do like to take maybe power planners out to meetings to do some of the fact finding to help go through forms, you know, filling out application forms for protection, for example, that's all possible.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_01: Now, of course, there's jobs there that could be automated as well.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_01: But I also think that there's a nice side to that too.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's a nice service for the end client.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_01: And again, look at it it takes burden off the advisors' plate and their desk as well.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that's a good thing.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_01: And if it's something the power planner wants to do as well, well, it's it's a win-win for both sides.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_00: Love it.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_00: Do you feel quite passionate about the power planner role?
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, I I did it.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_01: Like I so I I've spent five years in the industry and I came straight out of university in into like a graduate scheme as an admin and then did that.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_01: So I was in Davy in Ireland, a big wealth manager, then moved into power planning, then finally advice.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_01: And I kind of enjoyed those bits along the way, and I sort of saw them as like you had to put your time in and you had to go through those those milestones.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_01: But I work with some brilliant brilliant power planners, and I think good ones are invaluable to to advisors, like in today's world or the the way financial planning is done right now.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_01: And I think in the future, like having those trusted people that get that get it, that have just that eye for those edge cases to know when something's wrong or doesn't look right, that's really important.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_01: So I think good good power planners are worth their weight and gold.
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_01: We have a product name for them, you know, Temply Power Planners.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_01: So um they're they're important today, and I think they will stay important.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_01: Love it.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_00: Before we get into Template Power Planners, then why don't you just tell us a little bit about who Temply are and yourself?
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so as I mentioned, my my background's in advice.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_01: Uh worked for five years, spent time in big firms, even a partner's Davy, then advised in an IFA environment for a year.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_01: So I kind of got a view of the whole the whole picture, and there's similarities there, but there's obviously a lot, a lot different as well.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then I co-founded Temply, so we've been around since late 2024.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_01: I obviously didn't have the technical skills to do this, so I've got a co-founder who's a good friend of mine and software developer.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_01: So we started out just as a report writing tool.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, what was the hardest bit of my job day-to-day?
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_01: And probably ties into the power planning piece.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_01: It was big, long suitability reports.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_01: So we built that kind of point solution for report writing and then got it out there and we were kind of scratching our heads, and our customers were they were really enjoying it, but you know, they hadn't turned around and triple their client books overnight, as sometimes we hear and we we expect to do, and we realize that solutions and systems need to be a little bit bigger and they need to work around the systems people use today.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_01: So that's why we kind of relaunched Temply as more of a connector for the advice flow.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_01: So automating tasks uh in between meetings and then connecting to the systems used today, which takes us pretty much uh up to date.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_00: So are we using AI to write suitability reports faster when perhaps um the suitability report is actually outdated?
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_01: So it's it's a good question.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_01: I think the suitability reports, it's still obviously a critical part of the workflow.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_01: You know, and Teleflow had an advice survey in April, it was like 209 advisors, and um the majority of them said that the hardest or the biggest kind of bottleneck in the workflow was suitability report writing, with the average taking around three hours.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_01: So it is it's a problem, right?
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_01: It's a regulatory necessity.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_01: But firms look at it in different ways.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_01: So and I and I've seen this firsthand.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_01: So some firms see it as um, it's an important evidence for your PI insurer for the regulator.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_01: And they maybe feel that they can get the advice across the clients in the meetings and they go to present it, and that's more important.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_01: Other firms maybe see it as a very important method of delivery of the advice, so it needs to be uh written in a really nice way that can be understood, perhaps visually appealing.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but what if there is a better way to do that that kind of ticks both boxes, right?
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_01: So we always said we're really good for people who have templates and a specific way they want the reports to look.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's something we're very good at doing right now.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_01: But but what if we were to move away from that and think, is there a better solution in entirely?
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_01: So one that meets the kind of regulatory need, but one that makes the delivery of the advice like interactive and and good for the client.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_01: So we're starting to think and tease out kind of a few ideas with customers around maybe like interactive dashboards as a way for like delivering these kind of advice documents.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_00: I love it.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_01: Let's get into that then because I like a creative conversation.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_00: Tell us about some of that you're up to.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_01: I think like I think it's a chance to maybe change, change how things are done, you know, be a category leader.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_01: But right now, like advice documents, they're hard at the best of times, I think, for clients to understand, right?
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_01: And we use templates primarily to guarantee consistent processes and outcomes from a compliant compliance standpoint, but not all clients will take that 30-page or 40-page document home after a one-hour advice meeting, and they might understand what was what was discussed in the meeting, but there's a lot of detail there, and not everybody likes to sit and digest that.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_01: Some people are visual learners, some people like to talk things through.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_01: So we sort of see like, and it it would have to be thought about quite carefully and be quite guardrail.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_01: But what if this was an interactive kind of dashboard with all of the elements from the report?
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, the different texts, the rationale, interactive charts, but it had an agent there that was able to maybe answer a question just on the contents of that report, not to stray into wider advice, but could you explain to me what critical yield A means?
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_01: I know it was my advisor explained this to me in the meeting, but I'm looking at my pension annuity recommendation and it's sort of gone over my head.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's a nice not only could you then evidence that clients are actually engaging with this material, you know, you could, you could, you could see how this is going in real time, but it's a better experience for the clients and you could mix in fun things in there like voice agents that clients could talk these things through, you know.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_01: And I think you'll get a situation where you've evidence evidence what you need to evidence for the regulator, but you've delivered your piece to a client in a in a friendlier form factor as well.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_00: So you're thinking you could actually literally, if I was a if I was a client taking home my Suit B report or I've got on a dashboard or whatever, that I could literally talk to it and it would come, it would it would give me answers back then.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we're sort of saying that that's is that not is that because you can do that with Chat GPT now, right?
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_00: So why can't you is that actually there now in the power planning kind of AI world or what?
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_01: It it it doesn't exist yet, you know.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's an idea because you have to you have to think what do people want to use.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_01: So you're gonna you're going to force a change in behaviour, not force, but you're gonna give an opportunity to change how things are done.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_01: But the way I see it is some people present the reports as PowerPoint decks, some people are using Word documents of of varying qualities and and and design.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_01: So I think this this meets the this would meet the requirement if that's something that advice firms want to explore.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it's probably a nice kind of pathway as well to kind of doing a better job for like client client portals, and it opens up a whole other array of things.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_01: We've we've had interactive cash flow reporting for a long time, but I think we can do a step further than that now.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_00: Love it.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, 30 to 40 pages sometimes these suitability reports are they?
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_01: I I never liked writing essays in university, so that's that bit of power planning never really uh never really was exciting to me.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um I kind of went into the career always wanting to to become an advisor, you know.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_01: It's like I want to go through the the stages, qualify, do the exams, and and get out in front of people.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um so I never liked that bit, but I know people do, and then there's obviously people who make great careers for themselves as a power planner or as an administrator, and that's um that's possible as well.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, are those reports?
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_01: I certainly don't didn't enjoy writing them.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_01: And I I feel I hope I'm in the majority, and that if I receive one, it wouldn't be the ideal way to kind of unpick a complex piece of financial advice, you know, myself and understand what was going on.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_00: No, I love it.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_00: So you you spend a lot of time with power planners by the signs of it.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, a lot a lot a lot.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_01: And I think building a product that was important for those people was was was a big thing for us.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_01: Like in any advice firm, you have you have the advisors who who can often end up being the principal and the owner.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_01: It can obviously differ, but doing a lot of the day-to-day work that AI is coming coming in to take an effect on that's that's by the power planners.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_01: So I think building a product with them in mind was was important because I think it's quite easy when you're busy running an IFA firm as a principal.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe you're advising clients, but you're also running a business, you're running a team, you're thinking of finance, you're thinking of a whole lot of things.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_01: So a lot of the gold and the and the real nitty-gritty um around the technical day-to-day and the the challenges, like that's what lives in the power planner's head.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, upskilling the power planner.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, that's a that's a that's a great strategy from an AI company is to go into the power planner, upskill the power planner, AI parallel to the human experience is exactly what you're looking to achieve, then is it?
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I I think so.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_01: And it probably comes back to I mentioned briefly about I I think AI will impact the course into power planning, right?
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_01: So, like this is having an effect on all industries in the world.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's a big problem, it's probably bigger than we can tease out today uh on this podcast.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_01: But I I sometimes look at software engineering as like this parallel.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_01: So a lot of AI agents and tools were first and foremost built to be really excellent at software development and agentic coding.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_01: And that's the case today.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_01: So like anthropic release figures on the volume of agent tool call use, and it's still well into the 90s for like software development-based usage.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_01: So, like all this AI outside of that's actually only a drop in the ocean.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_01: And we have seen kind of small pullback in in junior roles for software developers.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_01: So I think there's similar challenges in power planning, right?
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_01: If those early jobs, you know, when I first started my job uh in in DAV, I was doing I was doing administration, I was helping out with the post, I was sending off letters of authority, chasing providers, getting into eventually letter drafting.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_01: If AI can do that, right, how do I come in and how do I learn it?
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_01: And how do I become the experienced power planner of five years when I can't get started in the first place?
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_01: Big question.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_01: I think two things, there's two responsibilities.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_01: The first one's on the advice firms, knowing the importance of having good power planners and making it easier for people to come in on a structured program, helping out with that education instead of you know, you come in and you learn on the job.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_01: And you do learn on the job, right?
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_01: You soak up things via osmosis and listening to conversations going on over your over your shoulder, but putting in better structures for education.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_01: And then the other one is the onus on people who want to get into the career, like it's never been an easier time to learn, right?
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_01: Especially with the resource we have with AI.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_01: So trying to come in and come to the table with some skills that can at least get you started, adding value and making making you an attractive hire to a company because it's a big decision making a hire and increasing headcount.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_01: It it's tough for small businesses, which many IFAs are.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_01: So that's kind of two ways I've thought about it.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_01: And if we can help round that up skilling bit by making like an intuitive product that people love to use and providing the necessary support around it, like that's that's a good thing, but it's a big challenge.
• 17:17
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• 17:23
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• 18:20
  SPEAKER_00: What's the intuitive product that you've come up with?
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so we've got two products.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_01: We've got TempliAdvisor and Temply PowerPlanner.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_01: So we thought an easy way to do it was to name them for who they're meant to be used by, because advisors have their own jobs to be done and power planners have their own jobs to be done.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_01: And when you're selling a suitability report writing tool, which was the first version of Temply, the people buying it were weren't often the people writing the reports.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_01: It was advisors hopping on calls and guys who own their own firms.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um so having a beautiful product is I think knowing who's meant to be the end user, making it as easy as possible to get to that magic moment.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_01: So I think you know, we struggled early on around kind of onboarding.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_01: So you had to take your document templates and processes and set them up on template, and that took time.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_01: When they were set up, it was brilliant.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_01: The outputs and the parody between kind of a human-written report and an AI one was really, really good, but it took a bit of time.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_01: So it's like reducing that time to value.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_01: How can I go in?
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_01: How can I try a software and and start seeing value in in around 30 minutes?
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_01: And how can I try it without kind of consequence and collateral?
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_01: So we tried to make the the product accessible, we tried to make it uh fun.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_01: It's like try to call it, we call it our rule is simple and sexy, right?
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_01: It's definitely it's not simple at times, but uh it is it is getting there.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_01: So that's the big one for us.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_01: We want to make products that people enjoy using, but that actually give value, they're not just hype and not just marketing.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_01: So people want to get into and use every day to make their jobs a bit better.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_01: What about the Temply Power Planner one?
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_01: Can you go into a bit of detail of that again?
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, of course.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_01: That was kind of built around the the first tool we ever made.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_01: So it's a web app for it had a suit a suitability report writing agent, and then it integrates with your various different platforms, so your back office platforms, I can teleflow, planner, IRS, your file storage, you know, uh OneDrive and SharePoint, Google Drive.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then it allows you to obviously write reports, produce documents, but you can also then interrogate your data um from those different sources, so maybe querying, tell me which clients um had pension drawdowns on your back office platform.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_01: You can also do fact finding, research, and calculation.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_01: So those sort of jobs to be done, we've typically kind of pigeonholed in the power planning sphere and then temp the advisor.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_01: It's built around meetings, so producing meeting notes, recording meetings, and then it can automatically update your fact find on your CRM, or if you use a regular PDF one, it can do that as well.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_00: So you can start to finish time saved.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_00: How much time are you saving?
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_01: I think if you just narrow in on the power planners, like probably good to think about two good customer results.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_01: So um a one-person operation, um they primarily were writing annual review reports, and they're taking them around one hour thirty, and they cut the writing time down to between five and ten minutes.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_01: And then another example would be um a larger kind of regional leader IFA as we describe them.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_01: So, like eight advisors based in Norwich, eight advisors and about six to ten support staff, and they were taking around 40 minutes to sorry, four hours to write their um you know, new business suitability reports, and they cut that down to 20 minutes.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_01: So that's the the time saving, and that's fine and that's great, it's brilliant, right?
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_01: But I think a time saving in one area isn't what changes the entire kind of landscape and a vice practice and and what it's capable of.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_01: So we're trying to add time savings across the entire spectrum.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_01: So from the client meeting through to the business been processed.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_01: And right now, you know, we do this slice of it, but over time we want to kind of deepen that.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's the only way.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_00: How do you make, you know, like when we talk about AI and we talk about power planning?
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_00: We've got template power planning.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: know.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: In my head, it feels like we're you know creating super versions of power planners.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_00: Are we creating super versions of power planners?
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I I hope so.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_01: I think like that's kind of that would be your dream scenario someone building these products that so you you see it already in in software development.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we hear of like top engineers, you know, 10Xing or 100xing their their output and there's real evidence of it.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_01: So like I want I want to see that in power planning as well.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_01: Like why can we not have a power planner who maybe writes two reports a week writing 10 or 20 you know and then also being able to review that output and then pass it back to their advisor.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_01: So super power planners it's an amazing idea but you might if your power planner super and the advisor is still constrained by other areas or other information or factors outside of your control, it doesn't link up and it doesn't actually change that throughput and that turnaround for advice.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_01: So I believe that like seeing real results will take kind of tech across the entire process.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_01: So super power planners is the is the dream for sure but it's going to take a lot of infrastructure around that as well.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_00: In implementing AI into a business I'm quite interested to understand what's the best route in to implement implementing AI in the business.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_00: Is it going into the business owner first and getting buy-in is it uh compliance is it power planners is it the advisor themselves who's I suppose most responsive to the AI and actually uses it the way it's meant to be and therefore is a the best way for a firm to look at how to implement it really so I think it's a good question and it it it changes some principles remain the same it obviously changes firm to firm but we have I saw I've seen reports of big kind of enterprises struggling with AI rollouts.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_01: You know AI was maybe mandated or put into place by executives and the day-to-day people doing the job didn't really take it on board.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_01: So in our experience the best adoption for these new systems and tools is when you get all the stakeholders involved early.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_01: So if this is like a system that power planners are going to be involved with get your power planners in.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_01: If you're the owner of a firm and you do give advice but you're making the tech decisions and you have a team of other advisors, get them in and get their opinion and input and not only do they get a handle on the product quicker and do they have an idea of the learning curve involved but there's buy in there and there's there's input maybe somebody doesn't want to use a tool for a particular reason.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_01: So it's getting the right people involved and not in my opinion not pigeonholing this to just one person or one director and and I understand that every tool if you did this for every tool you trialed you know it would be quite frustrating for the general team but you've ways of filtering what tools make sense and are worth putting the time into at this point though I just want to make people aware that if you are listening to this and you are a power planner or a financial advisor and you're looking to just see what Temply is all about.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_01: If you just head to the show notes there'll be a link in there and then we can get people to sign up and you know demo the system or join absolutely just hop on a call and and we can have a chat if you want an informal call before a demo or straight into a demo we can we can do that.
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_00: Some people worry about data and they think it's got to be absolutely perfect before they can implement AI.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_00: What's the truth in that?
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_01: It's your big controversial take you know I was I I personally disagree on on some level so the whole your data must be clean and must be perfect.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_01: I don't actually think it needs to be perfect right so your data doesn't need to be ready it needs to be reachable so when we talk about data in a firm it can mean different things right it can be MI it can be revenue and fee data and then there's the data that's needed to give advice to someone to to write a suitability report for example.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_01: So that's the data I want to look at right and what is that data?
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_01: So it's the context from your meetings, your conversations it's maybe details of policies and other things that the client may have in your file storage.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_01: It's the assets and investments they hold in the platform and then any other context maybe on a back office platform.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_01: So we're often hearing stories of like you need to have your data unified and correct in one place.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_01: But that's an outdated argument.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_01: In my opinion that's an argument that's relevant for software before LLMs when things had to be the right field in the right place.
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_01: Every advice firm knows where the right data is and what the sources of truth are.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_01: If they couldn't if it was really the big dumpster fire it gets described as they wouldn't be able to go in and do their jobs.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_01: So I think if you have an AI system that can plug into the different sources of truth so your investment platforms, your file storage, your emails your client conversations, your actual meetings, you can run the workflows and run the automation.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_01: So you need two things you don't need your data fully correct in one place.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_01: You need every source readable at the point of use and you need the human to make the decision when there's a conflict so we're we're an AI flags conflict in the data so it says John's risk profile is four on your back office CRM that's an absolute mess.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_01: And it says it's actually seven in the file storage what is it?
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_01: And the human can verify that.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_00: Okay fine so you'd have say wrong information on one CRM uh an email that says something completely different which is the truth the AI would determine that because it would say look there's two conflicts here and that's where the human element come in and technically you might come in as a human into this whole process and have a list of conflicts that you've got to actually sort out.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_00: Once you sort those lists of conflicts out is there a way to simplify the process in the future so you don't have to come in and through a little conflicts so not every AI would do that, right?
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_01: Like a regular LLM might might hallucinate and might pick one confidently but our AI and the systems we have built we've we've built to try and minimize that as much as possible.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_01: So using the various techniques like retrieval augmented generation we surface conflicts and surface um missing bits of information we ask the person and the user to to clarify them as as you should there's in my opinion we have an opportunity with with new breeds of systems and AI systems to actually kind of start fresh right and and unify the data in one place.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_01: So you're going to have all your client meetings and all that fresh information coming in every year.
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_01: But for example we have a a function in Tembly called memory so it's basically like a log where it'll extract certain bits of information from meetings but you can also add other context to it.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_01: So if there's kind of weird and wonderful places you've hidden some data or information or and quite often sometimes the the data's up here in the head you have a chance to kind of build this new fresh unified um pool of this data going forward and and you can still have the other source of truth right you don't need to fix it and and and hopefully this gets better over time.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_01: You mentioned providence yeah what is that?
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_01: So I guess that probably links in nicely to kind of uh the human in the loop and verifying conflicts so when we're thinking about AI outputs it's not about interoperability and explaining why did the AI write that it's where did it find that right so if you think about any piece of work you do with an AI that's your work the FCA is technology agnostic.
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_01: You can't turn around to anyone and say I'm sorry that the AI said that it was absolutely complete and utter made up mess right you have to understand so how do we make our lives easier when proofing and checking this work which we need to be doing we need to be able to see where it took its answer from why because then we can make decisions faster about whether that output is right or not and two when we need to go and actually show this to someone maybe an auditor maybe compliance check we're able to we're able to say this is the file these are the files use right you're essentially taking yourself up to speed on on why a certain output is is what it is.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_01: So the way I see it is if the AI is doing your grunt work and your admin work make sure it's doing your homework as well so it's about provenance and sources and not necessarily understanding every little bit going on under the hood.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_00: I got a question for you how much do you trust AI?
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_00: So if you ran your own financial advice business how much do you trust AI that's coming back with the right answers?
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_01: I I feel like having done it having worked in this kind of space for a couple of years now and used AI tools I I have high trust right I do but I think it's important to remember there's there's there's distinctions between the AI chatbots we use day to day and sort of more specific AI agents built for certain purposes right they can have guardrails they can have special retrieval systems but you need to always remember that and this is with certainty the probability of AI not hallucinating will always be non-zero.
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_01: You know AI I've done research in this it's just purely the nature of LLM structures right they're probabilistic they're always trying to predict the next token and when it gets stuck it needs to come up with something.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_01: So you always need to be aware of the risks and we're always going to have a human in the loop in a regulated industry it's how can we build trustworthy tools or tools that we can we can understand where they're taking their answers from and they make our lives easier to use them and and proof them.
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_01: So that's I think an important thing it's like if my AI tool gives me this suitability report how quickly can I check myself that this output is good without kind of slowing down the productivity gains.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_01: What happens if something goes wrong who's the blame it's always the advisor or the firm it's whoever's giving the advice like never forget that I mean you could if you're a power planner or an admin in a firm you can tell tell your boss your AI tool let you down but you you need to remember that you know I feel like there is sometimes there can be uncertainty around that and we get asked questions you know like a a popular one would would be you know who who's updating the um who's going to update the templates each tax year it's like well you know it's still you yourself right because they're your documents they're your processes um you could use the AI to help you but you need to remember think of it as a tool it's like uh think of it as like Microsoft Word right it's it's a means to an end for you to do your job you you still need to do your job and your clients still need you to do your job as as well.
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_00: Let's talk about the competitive advantage of AI in the financial advice world.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_01: Will how one, how do you think a firm will be will stand out in against the competition in the future when everyone's perfectly plugged in and also how can a firm right now get a competitive edge against their Yeah so I think I I think there'll be a couple of different ways like we hear a lot of like closing the advice gap and bringing advice to billions of people and maybe that'll happen but I I actually don't think that it's going to happen by IFAs.
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's going to happen through you know big providers with kind of AI robo advisors, targeted support, a combination of IFAs, there's different things at play.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_01: What I think IFAs can do really well and wealth firms is they can actually deepen their service level.
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_01: So instead of actually you know they'll lower the cost to serve internally but instead of lowering fees for for more clients I think they can justify their value better and and retain their fees.
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_01: So right now you kind of meet your client once a year and you review your plans once a year maybe you do it slightly more often than that.
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_01: But AI kind of allows you a lot of opportunities around like constant monitoring you know flagging life events flagging allowances flagging birthdays so you can really provide a better personalized service.
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_01: And the other thing I think that AI is going to allow people to do to do is be more efficient in their in their businesses and allow them to really pursue niches.
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_01: So like I really love in America how the RIA landscape the independence there's so many niche advisors maybe you're a former doctor turned advisor and you help medical professionals or you're exit entrepreneur turned financial planner it's quite pop it's quite popular and there's these kind of RIAs that have built their businesses and cut their teeth around serving niches.
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that's a nice thing in the UK right if I serve a really specific niche and if I have really good domain expertise about how a certain thing works it's how you build trust right with your your end clients so I think that's uh that's going to be how you can stand out in the future as well when AI is perhaps made the become a common denominator for productivity you know what about now?
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_00: What about right now?
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_00: Do you think someone who's adopting AI right now and and really sort of spending time and energy on it do you think that they are going to leave the competition behind over the next few years if you don't adapt?
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_01: I think I think change happens slower than we sometimes like to admit so let's let let's look at the state of play right now you know I go back to that in teleflow study I mentioned that it was 209 advisors.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_01: It's like AI adoption's up to 74% um this year.
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's from it was either 30 or 40 the year before but of that cohort of of people so that's a lot right it's nearly three quarters if they were to rate the efficiency of their workflows out of 10 the average was 6.2 so we're seeing all this AI use but we're not we're only rating ourselves a six out of 10 from an efficiency standpoint.
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_01: And interestingly 87% of those using AI were just using note takers right and I'm not knocking the note taker we have one built into Tembly Advisor I I think they're great but AI hasn't potentially changed the landscape today as we know it.
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_01: Despite the marketing from providers like us and what we say I still think there is a gap there.
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_01: I think there's harder jobs that are yet to be solved en masse.
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_01: I believe we have a really strong solution for some of those trickier tasks like suitability report writing but we haven't we haven't taken got it out to the entire market.
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_01: You know I think there's still jobs to be done there.
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_00: When do you think AI will move the needle in financial planning and what will it look like when that happens?
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_01: I think it'll be too I think it's going to be over the next three to five years.
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_01: This year I have seen a marked improvement I feel like in in the way systems and tech is going right so we went away from maybe point solutions being largely available in the market to these more end-to-end platforms right and orchestration systems which is probably a way you could categorize Temply I think eventually in the next five to ten years you know there might be a one a one-stop shop system that um that can do everything and that'll be attractive to some people but I think the reality is that every IFA and every firm works differently they have four or five different systems they rely on and changing them can be difficult.
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_01: So that's why we wanted to go and build a system that that fits around them um and makes that change possible as quickly as possible.
• 36:05
  SPEAKER_01: So instead of like waiting for this magic moment in the future um you can start getting value right now you can use the systems you use today and get moving quickly.
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_01: What's going on with the banks are they looking at sort of AI from a financial advice perspective and you know are they coming in to challenge the uh the traditional financial planner and IFA business in the UK I think the the big banks are moving into to wealth again you know we've seen Nat West acquire Evelyn partners there um and they are and it's because it's an attractive sector and this is probably after the banks kind of exit us from the sector you know years ago I think it's because I'm really bullish on on the financial advice and wealth management like obviously a industry I have a lot of love for but I feel really good about it right the opportunity is huge and and that's why the banks are coming back in are they going to challenge the IFAs it's a different proposition and they will challenge the IFAs if the IFAs continue to behave the way they be the way they behave and run their businesses that way.
• 37:01
  SPEAKER_01: You know the banks will have bigger processes and pricing power but there's a unique value and niching that can come into play in the IFA space that we talked about your ability to serve particular clients and have particular influence in your region or area and I think that won't change and I don't think the banks are are going to wipe that wipe that out and I also just to round this point off I think there's actually enough opportunity for everyone to be quite frank.
• 37:25
  SPEAKER_01: You know I think the number of households in the U in the US that has over$5000 in investable assets grows eight times faster than the population rate.
• 37:34
  SPEAKER_00: So there's the wealth expanding and I think there's plenty of I went over to the States recently because I've got a bit of an interest in in the US I've got a few things going on over there that might come off might not but it's been a really interesting journey.
• 37:48
  SPEAKER_00: But there's about 3000 RIAs out there I think 1.2 million protection and annuity advisors about 60 7000 CPAs that have investment capabilities as well.
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_00: So there's a big old market out there right um obviously there's a lot of very large wealth management firms out there as well so we if we're gonna see anything we're gonna see it in the USA first aren't we if anything this AI comes in actually makes some serious improvements we're gonna see if some of the big players in America uh first of all do you ever get out of the states at all?
• 38:19
  SPEAKER_00: Is it something you're interested in?
• 38:20
  SPEAKER_00: Do you look at the states a lot for inspiration or um research?
• 38:24
  SPEAKER_01: I think the states the states are you know typically are always ahead maybe sometimes how we do things in the UK um there was a guy I met he was a former he was a US executive at Vanguard and he worked in a in a company I used to work for he's a really interesting guy.
• 38:38
  SPEAKER_01: He told us a story of how he had a conversation with his um his the his bin man the garbage collector you know just in his driveway in America it was the it was the noughties before the financial crisis and his bin man was talking to him about Vanguard index funds you know and I just feel like that kind of general knowledge is much more commonplace in the UK and the public now.
• 38:57
  SPEAKER_01: But would that conversation have happened in the UK back then?
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_01: No.
• 39:01
  SPEAKER_01: So like I just feel like America are ahead but don't count out the don't cut out the capability of guys building here in the UK and in in Europe and in Ireland as well I think we're we're starting to really get there and one thing I feel really strong about so I have been in the US to answer your question I was there in November last year and I hope to head it over in September again this year.
• 39:22
  SPEAKER_01: Future proof um yeah I want to go to Futureproof but that's March 2027 isn't it?
• 39:27
  SPEAKER_01: Future proof they got one in September in Huntington Beach California 14th I think Miami next year I think I missed the Miami one by a day.
• 39:35
  SPEAKER_00: I was in Miami so I went out there I missed it by a day but a friend of mine went there um but I'm I want to go to the Huntington Beach California one I think it looks really good I've never been but it looks really really good it looks incredible and like I think those events are brilliant because primarily our business is remote right but when you get the chance to get in front of people there's no substitute for it.
• 39:53
  SPEAKER_01: But to just finish that point US financial advice it is slightly more simplified than what we do over here.
• 39:58
  SPEAKER_01: It's less nitty gritty there's less regulatory requirement and heavy document-based workflows they have probably you know a less complicated network of systems it's because the UK has a much older more complex regulatory landscape it's got you know there's banks in the in there's banks in the UK you know nearly as old as the as the American state itself do you know so we've all these years of regulations that have created all these jobs for UK financial planners to do.
• 40:26
  SPEAKER_01: So I think if you have a really good solution for UK financial advice and you've you dealing with the hard the nitty gritty and all those problems you can add value to the US market you know but people are moving fast so I think it's um it's getting out there and getting speaking to those guys understanding how it is they're working and where does that fit kind of our product today.
• 40:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah I think one of the biggest indicators we're gonna see of success of AI I think within financial planning is the advice gap, right?
• 40:51
  SPEAKER_00: You know, being able to see that you know individuals that aren't at that typical 250 investable assets, K investable assets are being serviced, you know, the ones that the banks used to look after.
• 41:01
  SPEAKER_01: So I think when we start to see an impact on on those individuals then we're gonna start to see AI actually working really well because obviously if it's saving the advisor time reducing the cost of advice which is something we want to see that's going to make that more accessible right and it'll depend on the firm so like like I said some firms might deepen that value they might niche down some might say now's my chance to go after a bigger pool of clients and we can't know the firm's behaviours and what they're going to do but I think it won't just be the RAAs and the IFAs involved in that advice gap closing I think there'll be there'll be other um other factors at play other options that people explore as well.
• 41:39
  SPEAKER_00: Jack before we finish up this uh great conversation what do you think if someone's listening to this right now they're not using AI yeah right what's your advice to them right now and how can they start getting involved in AI within their business in a really simple and easy way to get the ball rolling?
• 41:57
  SPEAKER_01: This is usually where someone says you have to go and get all your data ready I'll not be saying that um today uh look garbage in garbage out not denying that that that's a mess but let's forget about the data spit for a moment so do you have document documented process do you have templated documents for your reports for your notes do you have a definition of what good and correct is like um and then that that in my experience makes adoption of AI much better.
• 42:24
  SPEAKER_01: Secondly you know do you have is your team ready to be bought in to the role out of a new tool because that's how you're going to get the success it's going to be across your team and and then I would say do you know in terms of the systems used today and and and the platforms that it's your investment platforms your file storage your back office platforms are they are you happy with them?
• 42:45
  SPEAKER_01: Are they going to be changing anytime soon?
• 42:47
  SPEAKER_01: Can you say like these are the these are the core systems I'm going to press on with for now can I look at a solution then that can connect with those systems right and that that fits into how I work today.
• 42:56
  SPEAKER_01: So have your mind made up and and then I think have an AI policy go out and think like what what's the impact of AI on on data security on my client service you know how how staff have to behave and use these tools once we once we introduce them in your firm and then I think you can start looking at it.
• 43:14
  SPEAKER_01: But my final point be don't don't hesitate you know start conversations and start having to think about it.
• 43:19
  SPEAKER_00: I think you're the type of person as well who loves to educate right and your business loves to educate people so I think you know I if you asked me to do all those things I probably wouldn't do it.
• 43:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah but I'll tell you what I would do I would pick up the phone to you and ask you a question or I drop you an email or I send you a message on LinkedIn.
• 43:34
  SPEAKER_00: You know that's the sort of thing that I think I would like to do do you welcome those types of outreach from financial planning firms?
• 43:39
  SPEAKER_01: I I I love having a chat it's sort of you know because I I I love love working in the industry and um you know if I I I I I feel very fondly about it.
• 43:48
  SPEAKER_01: So I love having a chat and finding out those problems and if it's not a fit it's not a fit we'd rather say right don't know if you're the right fit to start with Templey today but we can have a chat and see like what's working and what's not and um there's so much value in that for us right we need to keep speaking to customers we need to keep learning.
• 44:03
  SPEAKER_01: So whether it's a message on LinkedIn or a coffee or a mobile call I'm always keen to take it and get speaking to people.
• 44:10
  SPEAKER_00: Love it.
• 44:10
  SPEAKER_00: So you heard it here first power planning roles are safe.
• 44:13
  SPEAKER_00: Let's hope so yeah I think so Temply PowerPlanner and Temply Financial Advisor will help you in your business and support you.
• 44:20
  SPEAKER_00: So any questions aim them directly at Jack and you can find the contact details in the description and a few links to booking demos etc as well Jack.
• 44:29
  SPEAKER_00: Awesome thank you Sam really enjoyed that thank you very much for sharing your financial plan live cheers