Latest / Destination Unlimited with Victor Fuhrman / CJ Llewelyn - Chakras and the Vagus Nerve

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CJ Llewelyn - Chakras and the Vagus Nerve · Destination Unlimited with Victor Fuhrman

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My name is Victor Ferman. Some call me the Voice. I've always been
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fascinated with human nature, spirituality, science and the crossroads at which they meet.
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Join me now and we will explore these topics and so much more with
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fascinating guests, authors and experts who will guide us to Destination Unlimited. Is
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there a connection between the chakras and the vagus nerve If so, may understanding
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this connection promote both healing and spiritual wellness. My guest this week gone Destination
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Unlimited. C J. Llewellyn, says the integration of chakra and vegas is
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the wiring system that helps you navigate life. C J. Llewellyn has a
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master's degree in Marriage and Family therapy. She's worked with clients overcoming trauma,
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addictions, and eating disorders in both treatment centers and private practice. CJ is
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a trained Internal Family Systems therapist and certified in EMDR I Movement Desensitization Reprocessing.
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She utilizes polyvagel theory, energy psychology, and knowledge of the chakras and subtle
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energies in her work. Her website is CJ Llewellyn dot com and she joins
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me this week to share her path and new book, Chakras and the Vagus
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Nerve, tap into the healing combination of subtle energy and your nervous system.
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Please join me in welcoming to Destination Unlimited. CJ. Llewellyn. Welcome,
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CJ. Hey, Victor, Thank you so much for having me. I'm
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thrilled to be here today. C Please share with our listeners your early path
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and how it led to your calling and practice. Thank you. Actually,
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I love this question because I think as we sort of spend years over time
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we have we can reflect on the patterns of our own life. I've been
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doing the work as a licensed professional counselor now for about fifteen or more years,
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but my early profession was in the media. I was a reporter,
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I was an anchor. I was doing a lot of interviewing of people's tragedies
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and storytelling in that way. And it never really set right with me to
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be trampling through people's traumas. And you know, spent some years doing that
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and got out finally when it just the stories we're getting more and more too
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intense for me. So I think that what I didn't know in those early
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years is that I was setting myself up to be a drama therapist. Absolutely,
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And in your early calling, did you have a sense of some of
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the things that you would later embrace in your career. Yes. In retrospect,
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yes, because as I was in my high school years trying to figure
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out what I wanted to major in in college, I was always intrigued by
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psychology and it just got you know, just I wish I had gone in
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that direction on one level, but on another level, I think I needed
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the life experiences that I had that I could later bring that experience into my
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sessions and just have so much more enrichment. I think with my own world,
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it's my own other experiences as well. Absolutely. Many have shared that
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as they approached their early forties, late thirties, early forties, they have
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complete changes in their lives, things that they had thought about in youth but
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had postponed or put away until they were ready to embrace them. Yeah.
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And you know we made you that on that deeper, subconscious level where it
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just wasn't time for me. I would have been just a kid studying psychology.
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It would have been all theoretical, and it wouldn't have had the life
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experience and meaning that I'm at hopefully able to help other people apply to their
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own lives as their therapists. Now. Absolutely, there's a concept in Buddhism
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called readiness and time, which means you have to have a certain number of
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experiences before you're ready to embrace a specific path. I just wrote that down.
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That is brilliant. Yes, in your practice, you employ internal family
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systems therapy and em DR. Please share with us about these modalities. These
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are two of my favorite modalities. Em DR stands for eye movement desensitization reprocessing.
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It was developed in the night DS by Francine Shapiro, and like most
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modalities, they were first observed in the clinical setting. And she was observing
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that when she was thinking of some really deep things in her own life,
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her eyes were going back and forth like they do when we're in rem sleep.
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And so she worked with this hypothesis that maybe we do back and forth
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eye movement as we're working through deeper, more powerful things in our lives.
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And she applied that to developing a whole protocol working with clients with trauma,
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and that's just urging through the years, and what we've discovered is that movement,
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that eye movement which goes to the vagus nerve, not just the brain,
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is reprocessing on a deeper level traumas in this case, things that have
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impacted us as well. So it's quite a literal clearing out of the systems
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sometimes of trauma. And that's that and traumatic responses that are programmed into us,
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and that's that's just brilliant UM. Adding internal family systems to that process
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over time, those too, that what what what people probably refer to as
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inner children work, you know, the inner child UM. We are multiple
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in our personalities, UM. And it's had a negative connotation through the years
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because there is something called dissociative identity disorder, which means that there's more amnesia
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barriers between people's personalities when they've had early trauma. But we all have multiple
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personalities, and many of those are our children that are trying to protect or
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manage us, or even ones that are very young and excelled UM. And
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some of them are very burdened through the years. They've been asked to do
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things that they weren't capable of doing when we were young, but by God,
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they were going to do it. And we're going to do whatever it
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could to get us through whatever we needed to get through. So being able
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to unburden them with the internal family systems process has been powerful. It's been
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amazing because your system, your children go back to being kids. They go
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back to being creative and curious and lively and joyful. And I have seen
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that with my own clients, and I do my own IFS work, and
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I have felt that within my own system, so much opens up. There's
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more joy, it's more soulful, you get more your access is through self
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energy, higher self energy, so very spiritual process. Both of those.
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Really, I think when we clear our system, and we'll get into the
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nervous system here in a minute, But if we clear our system of some
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of these neurobiolological responses that we developed to keep ourselves safe through the years,
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we find our peace, we find our spirit. We can operate from that
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as our actual strength and not just these defensive positions or often defensive positions and
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coping strategies that we sometimes take on in the world. Your bio also shares
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that you are a traditional reiki master. How did reiki grace your life and
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can you incorporate that in your practice reiki? You know, I think I've
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always kind of felt energy as most probably everybody that's listening to your podcast has
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some concept summontuitive concept to that. Reikie came into my life probably at the
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at the proper time. I was have a foundation in yoga and so I
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was aware of energy work. My Reiki master came into my life about fifteen,
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about twenty years ago now, and through that help support training, I
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was able to really understand and work energy a lot more easily. I do
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not use reiki in my sessions with clients, and the reason is I work
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a lot with people who are overcoming early childhood trauma and many of the women
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that I work with do not feel comfortable being touched. It has to be
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a safe place for them. So our work is not through touch. Our
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work is through other somatic ways of processing. And I use reiki to clear
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the room out. I use reiki to make room for safety. I use
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reiki on a level in my practice when I'm working with my therapeutic clients to
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keep the room safe for them and to kind of allow for the flow of
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whatever it is that they need. And it's really shown to be different when
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I forget to do that, when I forget to clear the room or just
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pulling raki energy and healing energy. Sometimes the sessions feel a little different,
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So it's really amazing to see that in process without even touching my clients.
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Absolutely, and rakie can be done by distant healing, so there's no need
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for physical contact. Also, absolutely, and physical healing is just so powerful.
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I mean, distant healing is so powerful. What inspired your new book
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Chacras and the vagus nerve tap into the healing combination of subtle energy and your
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nervous system. My work was just going in this direction. I was seen
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through processing through as an example, maybe we were processing what we refer to
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as an em your target targeting and memory targeting and intensity in the system that
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has to do with old traumas. So we would be in the middle of
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this somatic processing using bilateral stimulation and their messaging centers. They would I would
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notice they would put their hands on Oh, my stomach hurts. So I'm
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remembering that time that my mother had this message for me, and I felt
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so sad and lonely. Of course, you know when we get into when
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they're putting their hands on their their sacral chakra, that's the chakra of attachment
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to others. Or they would say I don't feel safe and I'm feeling this
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pain. You know, they put their hands down in their pelvis near the
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root chakra. So I was seeing the messaging in their bodies, knowing having
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foundation in polyvagel theory which helps me with clients, and they're processing seeing oh
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my gosh, this is all lining up with the vagus nerve and the messaging
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that they are experiencing in their tours. So is very much along lines of
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what I call the dimensions are within the chakras. Clients who can't suddenly speak
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because they were told that their voice didn't matter, their opinion didn't matter,
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or they were shouted down as children will suddenly feel that intensity in their throat
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and it's moving the energy up and out, up and out, combining the
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brain, the central nervous system, and frankly listening to the etheric energy,
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letting the etheric energy be in the room in the clinical setting, I think
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it is just important what and where is the vegas nerve and how does it
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function physiologically? Good question. So the vegas nerve is part of the autonomic
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nervous system, and the vegas nerve and how I write about it is foundation
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foundationally set in Polyvagel theory, Stephen Porges's Polyvagel theory. I use that as
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my foundation. What the Polyvagel theory discusses is that we have three states of
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being and they are all based on how our nervous system is registering safety for
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us. Because we are humans, our body wants and needs to stay in
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this planet. And we can take that out etherorically and say that our soul,
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which is a discussed that in the book, our soul needs our body
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to have these earthly experiences. However, we get into these dichotomies because our
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system is constantly registering safety. Within the poly Vegle theory, within the vegus
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nerve there are three branches or three states, and the first one has safety
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state to it. That is the ventral vegal quality that attaches to our hearts,
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throat, up into our jar, our middle, ear, our eyes.
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This is all how we engage. We engage with this part of our
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body when we are safe. If I'm looking at you in the eye,
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we're laughing. I'm engaging in that safety branch, that ventral vehicle branch.
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The second portion is what everybody has heard of, is a sympathetic nervous system
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that gets us into a little fight or flight. Should we tighten up doing
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where's the messaging coming from? If you and I were sitting there laughing at
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a cafe having coffee, and we're just talking about all things cool and spiritual
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that we love, but then suddenly we hear a siren, We're going to
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tighten up our neural seption. Our body is reading there could potentially be danger
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here, so we shift differently, we hear things differently. If that siren
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keeps on going, we can calm and get back into that safety branch.
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But if that siren gets closer and it turns out someone where where we're eating
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is needing an ambulance, we are going to tighten up. We are going
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to stay in that sympathetic process because we need to gauge if the room is
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safe. The third branch is immobilization. That's the dorsal bagel that shuts us
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down. When we stay in a high level of sympathetic we're engaged for very
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long periods of time. Our body may shut us down to conserve energy,
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to lower our blood pressure, to lower lower our heart rate. That is
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also an auto go to within our nervous system. That sounds almost like a
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hibernation. Oh that's a really yes, yes, Actually the dorsal bagel branch
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of our nervous system is the most ancient. So absolutely equating that Tom.
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You know bears who can go and sleep for how many months do they go?
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Now? Absolutely? And it's also been said that fear and excitement are
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two sides of the same coin, just the way we inter at them emotionally.
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How does that client in the vegas well? And so when I hear
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you say that, what it reminds me of is to remind people that we're
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not always just in one state. We can be applying ventral vegel and sympathetic
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at the same time. Let's say, you know, we're at that cafe
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and I've got CPR training and there's no one there to help this person that
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they called the ambulance with. But I can stay in my ventral enough to
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connect to this person while having a lot of sympathetic going through my system because
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I have to be on point potentially to apply administer CPR to this person.
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So ventral vegel sympathetic. You know, er docs, right, they've got
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to stay stay close to the edge, pay attention, but they're also feeling
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a little bit of that surge. Another way of maybe example of using the
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and by the way, this is referred to as neuroception, So in other
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words, before our brain is conscious, unaware of what our body is doing,
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our nerve neuroception, our vegas nerve is reading the room and we are
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responding as a result, you know. So we can be in various branches
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of our system. A dorsal vegel ventral vegel would be when you are having
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sex with your partner and you are feeling safe and connected and you know that's
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that's another branch. Dorsal vegel isn't always bad. Dorsal vegel can get us
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to sit down, arrest. It gets difficult when we have developed traits of
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dissociation. Right oh, No, central nervous system reads lack of safety,
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so we're gone from the room. That gets into a lot of trauma work
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right there as well. Why is it important for us to know and understand
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the legal system, Because if we are able to become curious and aware of
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what our neurobiology is registering, we can manage it better. We do hold
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data sets, that's my language. We hold information. Our central nervous system
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is this brilliant wiring adder in this super information super highway that is constantly registering
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danger or not danger or safety. As a result, what happens is sometimes
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if we've had early childhood trauma, we may misfire. Our central nervous system
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might hear the tone of a voice of someone that when we were children meant
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lack of safety. But we are perfectly safe now, but our central nervous
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system might be registering lack of safety. So if we're able to really be
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present to our body, we can be aware of what's happening, and we
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can be aware of if what's happening is helpful and accurate or not. You
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know, it's interesting to me that they talk about certain conditions which are passed
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down hereditarily through the DNA, and some of this bagel programming come through DNA.
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Oh, I'm sure I can. And if you think in utero the
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messaging as well, we are taking an information from the time we have formed
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in utero after a few months, where our central nervous system we are hearing,
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we are responding. It is a very animalistic system. If you think
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about it, it's brilliant. It's what keeps us safe on this planet and
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all mammals have one. But yes, absolutely, And you know, messaging
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family, messaging traumatic or not is very subtle and very powerful. And we're
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picking up those cues from before we're even born. And we're talking about a
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scientific process and a spiritual process. What about past lives? Can we bring
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through from past lives and have that bigel programming you know what? That So
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this goes more to believe systems than actual research. But absolutely absolutely. Have
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you ever been in a place where you've never been before but you know that
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place all the time? Yeah? I did once in Wales. This was
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years ago before I was doing this work. We went to Wales and all
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of a sudden, I to Conway, Whales. It turned around the corner
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and went, I know everything about this town and I, you know,
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had that thromming, and it really my ears were thromming, my just my
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system. My heart was beating in a different way. So I would probably
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have to argue that my nervous system was registering a familiarity, probably through my
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higher self, right, my soul self. But I walked all the way
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around the town. I showed my husband everywhere we were. This is here
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if we go up here, we're going up here, and yeah, and
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it did. It had a very familiar physical response as well as just like
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a soul memory. And I can say that on both a pleasant basis where
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I've recognized people in places that I've known before even though I didn't meet them
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physically in this lifetime, and also for some of the more unpleasant experiences in
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my life where I didn't have them direct knowledge of them in this lifetime,
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but I brought them forward from a past life fact. But you knew to
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stay away? Huh, knew to stay away. My guest is CJ.
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Llewell and her book is entitled Chakras and the Vagus Nerve Tap Into the healing
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combination of subtle energy and your nervous system. CJ. Please tell our listeners
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whether it can get your books and find out more about you and this wonderful
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work. Well, you can get my books online on Amazon, or you
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could contact or go to the website Llewellyn books dot com because you can order
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them through Llewellin Books as well. I know they're carried a Barnt and Noble
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as well as Amazon and my social media. Right now, I'm having actually
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a good time. I'm building out my landing page, so stay tuned.
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CJ. Llewellen dot com. You can get my landing page now, but
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someday I'm going to have this really cool interactive site that you will be able
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to play on. And I'm also on I'm where am I social media these
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days? Where am I TikTok Facebook, Instagram and floating around on Twitter as
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well. So and we'll be back with more of CJ and Chakras and the
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My guest this week Cej Llewell and her book Chakras and the Vegas Nerve
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tap into the healing combination of subtle energy and your nervous system. Cej,
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most of our listeners have some familiarity with the chakras. Please share with us
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your understanding of these subtle energy centers. So, having a foundation in yoga,
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I've certainly had the experiences of them through the years. Applying them now
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to chakras in the Vegas Nerve, I was seeing the messaging centers playing out
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along the lineup, so to speak, of the Vegas nerve and how it
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presents in our body, and I couldn't I just I couldn't ignore that.
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We discuss the chakras in session, but usually at the end of a processing
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section session only if my client are open to it, because not every client
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is open to it. It's been powerful in it and I truly believe this
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is my hypothesis here, is that they are simply etheric energy. Is the
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extension these chakras going into the auras are just the energetic extension of what we
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can actually physically put our hands on the tangibility of our nervous system. Is
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there an interface between the two systems. I think there is. You can
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see it lined up. I'm actually getting some artwork done because I'm not a
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digital person to indicate that they definitely seem to line up. And where you
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really start seeing this very clearly is going into I break the systems down,
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by the way, I do this in the book, and I apologize profusely
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to all the Yogis over the thousands of years, who knows so much more
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than I do. I break these down in the book into two different aspects.
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So I break them down and should the dimensions the human dimensions that I
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see how they play out. So in the book I break those down.
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But then I also see that we have our solar plexus, our sacral in
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our root. By the way, I use this very basic English language because
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the learning curve for my clients isn't to learn Sanskrit. It's to just get
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a working knowledge of what's happening in their system. But from the solar plexus
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down, I see a lot of attachment processes going on. From the hard
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chakra up, they are literally lined up with the ventral vegal activity in the
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system. So ventral vegal activity, if you remember, is safety in our
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system. And if you think of where do we all love to go when
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we are breathing into our chakras. We love that heart chakra, we love
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the throat chakra, we love the third eye in the crown chakra. This
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is all aligned with the safety factors in our central nervous system, and we're
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going to go a little deeper into those in a moment. But you say
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that we find the sacred in biology, please explain. You know, as
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cliche as this phrase is to me, it's it's a beautiful phrase. That
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we are spiritual beings having a human experience. I really can't line up more
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than that. So we have chosen on some level put anybody else's theology aside.
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We come into this planet are we have an energy that comes in We
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are in these bodies and over time our energy leaves. So in the meantime,
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this energy, however, you want to refer to it annus is having
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an experience on this earth plane. And of course we get all sorts of
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awful messaging through the years about how we dislike our bodies and it's not living
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up to this, and we're seeing our body and in pain, etc.
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We start seeing our bodies as things that fail us. But if we can
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see our bodies as a sacred vessel as a way to engage in the world,
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so that light within us, that soul self, that self light,
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that higher wiser light of us, that is a universal force, can have
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this experience, whatever the experience is that they're having in their life, and
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know that their bodies are what actually help us through this experience. Sometimes that
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work is very dense. As a trauma therapist is really sitting with people who
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are working through their childhood wounds and helping to heal them on that physiological,
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psychological, spiritual way. I've had lots of clients or lots of clients lots
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of friends who are in energy healing world say well, you know, I
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just I do the spiritual work. You're doing something else, Like no,
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I mean this is we're in the trenches in the spiritual work. Because if
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you can't clear those things from your body. You aren't having access to your
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light as easily. So that's why I see this. I see our bodies
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as sacred. I also very much say that the spiritual is psychological, and
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the psychological spiritual and amazing. Also, the way the human body is constructed
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is absolutely amazing. It really is, and it is it is. It
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is its own miracle in that it is designed to keep us safe, it
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is designed to have us engage in this world, and how we are able
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to heal ourselves. When we can heal all aspects of ourselves, it's powerful.
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So let's talk a little bit about what you share in the book in
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terms of the conjunction between the chakras and the biggest nerve. Tell us about
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the chakras and the biggest nerve as it relates to emotions. So there is
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a difference between emotions and a neurobiological response. They are use this analogy.
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Some people think I may be showing how old I am, But I remember
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in just grammar school and just as kid, we would play with the foil.
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We would we would separate the gold foil from the wax paper in order
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to play with the gold LeMay. That to me is an analogy that I
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like to use between what's a neurobiological response and what is an actual emotion coming
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from self energy, and sometimes we have to breathe through it to discern.
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Now, neurobiological response in this regard or exactly what we were referring to,
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is they are your body's response to a situation. How you're reading the room.
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Are you safe? I've got to yell at this guy with I don't
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know red curly hair, because red curly heard men are not safe to me?
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Is really more of a neurobiological response. It's a reaction to I'm not
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safe. Curing, but clearing out I shouldn't say caring, that's not the
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appropriate orb. Clearing out trauma from the system would make this a different reaction
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for coming from that person. That person wouldn't be so intensely punched in their
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system having that intense reaction that, however you want to call it, you
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know that punchy, that prickly, that that intense experience in your body is
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ninety nine point nine percent of the time a neurobiological response based on safety and
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based on early remy. We often hear the expression trust your gut feelings.
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Is this related to the vegas's nerves connection with the solar plexus. I so
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love that question. Yes, yes, yes, and yes yes it is
32:15
because part of the thread of the vegas nerve. Remember I was saying,
32:23
it attaches to our brain. It's communicating to our brain, and it's communicating
32:30
to the heart and the lungs. But it is deeply connected down into our
32:34
intestines. All our major organs, our kidneys are upper and lower intestines.
32:40
This is information our organs hold on to just as just as much information as
32:47
a vegas nerve. It is all part of the wiring system. It's all
32:51
part of that information super highway going up and down. So if you or
32:57
you know some people are more inclined when they do not feel safe to feel
33:00
digestive issues, our dorsal veigel can can manage intensity in the system enough that
33:09
our digestive system closes up or releases. That is simply a neurobiological response at
33:19
times. So yes, but can you see how that may be tied into
33:23
I'm feeling uncertain about this test I have to take. I'm excited, but
33:30
I'm nervous and fearful I'm nauseous that I'm going to throw up right right,
33:36
But I'm nauseous and throwing up is more neurobiological. It is more your body's
33:39
response to well, this is how we do it. It's funny. Why
33:45
is it important to have awareness in the body if someone is having a strong
33:50
emotional experience to do exactly we're just talking about, which is to discern emotion
33:58
from a neurophysiological response. Just you know, when the biology starts kicking in,
34:01
when the central nervous is going systems going animo. This is I don't
34:06
know what you know. If we can breathe through that, if we can
34:09
attempt to engage in that safety ventral vehicle portion branch of our nervous system enough
34:17
that we can pay attention, we can pull the gold foil off the wax
34:22
paper and discern the gold foil emotions versus the wax paper, which is also
34:29
still very much part of gauging. Whatever one is not bad, one is
34:34
not good. Let's put it that way. One though, can get problematic
34:38
at times if it's misreading. Getting back to that trust your gut. I've
34:45
had experiences in my life where I've had choices to make in certain situations and
34:52
from the response in my gut, I could say yes, that's something that's
34:57
interesting, but not for right now. I could say no and dismiss the
35:01
item out of hand based on that gut reaction. Or I could say,
35:05
yes, that excites me, this is something that I should approach now.
35:07
And I find that the big yeses, those capital Y yeses lead to another
35:12
capital Y and another capital y. Is that part of that process? Yeah,
35:16
it is, because what I'm hearing you say is that you're common enough
35:20
to really kind of tap into that higher self energy, right and within that
35:25
you know, the way I kind of see this is our soul drives our
35:29
body. Right, part of the driving system HAPs to be this vagus nerve
35:32
so we can manage our neurobiology, manager neuroception, really understand what part of
35:38
this is a physiological response. We also have these amazing physiological responses. Just
35:45
like you're saying, it's like, oh, spire in the belly can also
35:47
be a good thing, right, Oh, I can't wait to accomplish this
35:52
project or call this this person for an interview from my podcast. Absolutely,
35:59
And there there's that balance of sitting with that self energy and really listening to
36:06
it. Is there an exercise that you offer for working with that solar plexus
36:10
energy? Yeah, you know, and I think it kind of depends on
36:14
where you're at as well. I talk a lot in the book. I
36:19
refer to the solar plexus as the mind. So this is our identity in
36:23
the world. That solar plexus can be tricky, right, It can really
36:29
fire us up to do this amazing project that we can't wait to get to,
36:34
but it can also burn like crazy. So being able to engage in
36:40
ventral vehicle, just slowing the breath down sometimes I really recommend if people are
36:45
really feeling that fired up energy in their system. Bilateral stimulation is naturally built
36:52
into our bodies. It's the rem sleep when we're sleeping. It's how we
36:59
wake up when we've had this question or problem, and we wake up and
37:01
we find the solution. But bilateral stimulation is also activity. You know,
37:08
when you're nervous and you want to go for a walk, or you want
37:10
to run, or you want to exercise. I love to get on my
37:14
bike. It is bi lateral. It is moving one side the other side,
37:19
one side the other side, so we get into working both sides of
37:23
the central nervous system that can help. Really, you know, by the
37:30
way, being a sympathetic nervous system I'm throwing another piece in here is not
37:35
always a bad thing because play is part of sympathetic engagement immobility. So sometimes
37:44
when the solar plexus gets overcharged, being able to engage it in physical ways
37:49
is helpful. I remember learning praniamic exercises when I started taking yoga about thirty
37:55
five years ago, and one of the things that we shared was when you
38:00
feel excited or you feel worried or whatever, it might be, breathed deeply,
38:04
slowly and deeply into that solar plexus. Yeah, yes, exactly,
38:08
you are, you know, from a sort of a polyvagel vegas nerve lens.
38:15
Absolutely the yogies knew this. They didn't have Western science to overlay,
38:22
but boy, they really knew their stuff. Reading deeply in first of all,
38:28
starts pulling in safety into the system. It slows down our heart rate,
38:35
and that slow exhale really starts engaging. Where we can slow the heart
38:40
rate down enough we have the longer beats between beats, we start feeling that
38:45
calm. Yes, absolutely, Why is it important for us to understand the
38:52
difference between the emotions and the physiological response, as you share it in your
38:57
book Chakra's in the Vegas Nerve. So really great question, and I really
39:01
like coming back to that a lot, and I do that a lot in
39:04
my sessions. Because have you ever had a moment that you've regreted your response?
39:09
No, me, never, of course, the thing you said out
39:16
of annoyance or anger, or that look you gave somebody, or forwarding an
39:22
email but I should have not forwarded because you are well and you're sympathetic at
39:27
that point, right, and some self righteous parts in there going well for
39:37
exactly this reason. We've all had those, you know, looks of disdain
39:40
that it's like, oh gosh, I wish I hadn't done that. You
39:44
know. So we get these punches, we get these things in our system,
39:46
and we have these autogo twos in them that we regret later. Those
39:52
are generally more based on old patterning ore, you know, somehow our central
39:58
nervous system is registering, right, I'm going to send this email off and
40:01
let them know how I feel, or I'm gonna, you know, keep
40:06
going back to for some reason, making faces, willing nice. You know,
40:08
those are things we regret generally, those are not based on emotions.
40:13
Those are based on something a little bit more with a kick. Absolutely,
40:17
And you know, the funny thing is is that in my later years,
40:22
let's say the last twenty twenty five years, I started developing an inner voice
40:25
that would tell me, don't say that. Not appropriate, not appropriate to
40:30
make that common at this time where it's not necessary to respond, And I
40:34
think maybe that's part of maturity. I'm not sure. Well, you know,
40:37
I think that's that's a psychological and a spiritual maturity. Perhaps sometimes that
40:45
goes to just basic experiences. When I respond this way, I don't get
40:49
a very good response back, and therefore, you know, I'd like to
40:52
maintain this bridge. But it can also, as we understand, if we're
40:57
constantly responding like that and we can't seem to control, if we can heal
41:00
those aspects of us, we are finding more spiritual and psychological maturity that way,
41:07
we can just if we are grounded in ourself, our self energy,
41:10
that's very ifs language. We respond from ourselves, and most times we can
41:17
set for a while before we you know, whatever take action of a conversation.
41:23
We can reflect. It's a different more you know, it's a different
41:29
place to come from, just a reactive place. Our book is called Chakras
41:34
and the vagus Nerve. My guest C. J. Llewellin. We'll be
41:36
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the Shelter Pet Project dot org. Back on Destination Unlimited. My guest this
42:50
week Cjlowillen. Her book Chakras and the Vagus Nerve tap into the healing combination
42:57
of subtle energy and your herbs system. CJ. What is trauma processing?
43:05
So trauma processing is very similar to what we were talking about in regards to
43:08
how we store our database in our system, how our body protects itself,
43:15
and so trauma processing has various modalities to it. I think studies are starting
43:22
to show that body mind processing modalities are more effective. You can't talk your
43:30
trauma out. You just can't. There's studies that show this. This isn't
43:32
just my opinion, although I've seen it in so called action, because talking
43:38
about trauma has a tendency to we traumatize us or we start getting into a
43:44
looping narrative and it's still a looped in our body. So trauma processing overall
43:50
is using bodymind modalities to help heal those biophysiological responses that keep us from being
43:59
uncertain as to whether or not we're in the present or the past. That
44:01
would probably be a whole holistic way of you know, explaining what trauma processing
44:08
is. There's a lot of training that comes with working as a trauma therapist
44:15
UM because there's a lot of coping mechanisms that we develop through our through our
44:22
ways of coping that have a lot of biophysiological responses UM that have to be
44:30
identified. There's there's when when I'm working with a client trauma trained and trauma
44:37
formed therapist first, there's a lot of assessment and I don't necessarily mean paper
44:42
assessments going on. We're assessing for how this person is coping UM, what
44:47
makes them safe, what doesn't because everybody's different. There's no there's no clean
44:57
Trying to use a sports analogy and I'm failing miserably. No clean scorecards,
45:04
that's what I'm trying to come up with, No clean scorecard for how to
45:07
manage trauma. That there's a foundation and a base that helps you understand a
45:13
person's particular ways of coping. In the world, it's multi layered. You
45:20
know, how we learn to survive, especially in complex developmental trauma is multi
45:27
layered in its approach for healing as well, because you didn't just learn one
45:32
strategy. Our bodies are learning strategies are meaning making is learning other strategies,
45:40
So it's it can, but it's it's also like I said, it's very
45:45
spiritual to me to help clear that out so that someone can find peace within
45:50
themselves, which is what is already within them. They just kind of forgot
45:54
that and they're on their road to survival. Is this why you say the
46:00
spiritual is the psychological? Yes, absolutely, I don't have any doubt that
46:09
when even when I'm getting in my deep clinical stuff, it's not the clinicals
46:15
foundation, it's the information, it's the tools, but it is all spiritual
46:21
when someone can find that piece, when someone can live in the present,
46:25
be mindful because they're not having responses that are shooting old information, old memories,
46:37
old flashbacks, old you know, gut responses about the past where they
46:44
can't stake present because they're just reacting to their system. In our last segment,
46:49
we get talked about using pranayama for the solar plexus chakra, and in
46:53
your book Chakras in the Vegas Nerve, you share some other exercises. Would
46:57
you share a couple of them with our listeners? Please? Oh goodness,
47:00
okay, let's say I was Actually I'm doing my own audible book, and
47:05
so I was reading through one of the chapters, was like, Oh,
47:09
what's good. I put that in there. I like that. So it's
47:15
like, oh, this this book doesn't stink, does it. That's one
47:20
of my parts coming out here. One of the exercises that I just actually
47:25
read through that I really love, and I just spoke last month to the
47:30
Association for Comprehensive Energy Psychology. So I had a bunch of trauma therapists in
47:36
the room and we did this and basically it is a way to calm and
47:40
get into ventral vegel calmness, activity safety. One of the ways I do
47:47
this in the book is just to have We don't have a visual here,
47:51
so I'll have to break it down. Have whichever hands you want gently sort
47:57
of hold up your job. Just just have your hands and placed beneath your
48:01
jaw where the energy centers of your palms your hand are connected to the energy
48:08
center in your throat the chakras. And then take the other hand and just
48:15
gently place it where it feels comfortable for you on the top of your head.
48:22
Technically we are aligning the hand with the crown chakra, but you need
48:27
to feel that because again as we know, chakras are not an intellectual logical
48:31
process. They're an experiential one. So just go ahead and if you're listening,
48:37
and if you're not driving, is you're listening, just take your hands
48:43
and do that and just gently. It's a support, but it's not a
48:50
harsh, hard hold. It's just sort of resting and let yourself feel the
48:55
experience of that. I'm doing it right now. It feels wonderful time too.
49:04
I got real quiet. Did you notice that that's a that's a major
49:12
which chakra vegel connection would most of our listeners and readers, most of our
49:17
listeners and your readers benefit from focusing on so you know, the real powerhouse
49:24
is the heart chakra because it is also where the ventral vegel activity aligns.
49:30
It's a first sort of portion up in ventral vegel activity. So heart chakra
49:37
right, the cor de leone, the soul, the experience of soul most
49:45
times not and everybody's different. So I don't like to try too much of
49:49
a linear process here. But breathing into the heart, breathing into the slow
49:55
grit breath like you were saying, the proniama into the lungs and the slow
50:00
x Hill starts engaging the heart chakra energy, starts engaging ventral bagel safety energy.
50:08
And that's where I think everybody can start. What I see at the
50:14
end of my trauma processing. Once we get if we're doing MDR, we
50:19
get that that disturbance in your system down to where there's no disturbance where you
50:24
know, a young child has been unburdened and is off plane. Now,
50:30
when I have my clients check in with their system, they seem to really
50:34
connect that. You know, when I said, where are you feeling the
50:37
safety? Where you feeling you know, your light, Where are you feeling
50:43
the good energy? So called good energy? And they'll always come put their
50:46
hand on their heart. So I think it's it's a good, good starting
50:51
space for all of us. By the way, if we are actually in
50:54
danger, we don't not necessary only want to be spending all that time trying
51:00
to get into ventual vagal activity. Sometimes we just have to run or get
51:06
out of situation. Absolutely, and the heart chakra and that connection that's really
51:13
the source of compassion, isn't it. Yeah? Absolutely, And I think
51:16
I prefer to that a lot in the book. That is the dimension of
51:21
our compassion, that is when we can. So that is when we can
51:25
start feeling compassion for ourselves. If we do not experience that compassion, that
51:35
internal sense, however we do it, if it's baby steps of calm that
51:39
ultimately lead to compassion, we cannot. We cannot feel it for others.
51:45
We're feeling other things. We might feel codependency, we might feel all feared.
51:50
We need to keep them disengaged in their their anger. But it's not
51:53
compassion. It maybe sympathy. But if we can't and just really have that
52:00
internal experience of our own self compassion, no matter the degree, we can't
52:06
apply it outward. We just can't. Impassion is like charity, It starts
52:12
at home, if it really does. However, I would say it's also
52:15
not a mental process. It's an experienced, sematic process, soulful sematic process.
52:27
Absolutely. And in the book you say that the sense of empathy is
52:32
linked to the crown chakra. Yeah, yes, And on some level I
52:40
think it's an overused chakra. On some levels, I think that energy is
52:45
not used enough. We are part of a webb, and part of being
52:50
human is maybe we'll never completely understand how much of a web a universal web
52:57
light source we are part of until we're not in this boy because this body
53:00
limits us in so many ways, but we are a part of a web,
53:05
and in order for us to continue to feel that connection, the crown
53:09
chakra is bringing in energy. The crown chakra is bringing in higher wiser energy,
53:15
universal force, however you want to call it. There's knowledge that comes
53:20
through one of the things that I do see that can get misfired. And
53:27
I think this is not just in sessions. I think it's in the outside
53:30
world. People talk about energy vampires. I have had really lovely people come
53:36
into my office and want to work through things, but they don't really want
53:38
to work through it. They want to complain, they want somehow to me
53:40
fix it, etc. So the energy gets unbalanced and they have walked out.
53:45
And I have felt trained from my sacral chakra, which is attachment.
53:52
Right. So I think it's really important for us to know that Crown chakra
53:59
draws into us the energy, all the energy we ever need. We don't
54:04
need to get energy from anyone else. It's here for us. It's higher
54:09
wiser energy. And I would even go further out to say that I really
54:16
think that this energy is also protected by our guides, whoever those guides may
54:22
be, so that we're not just pulling in anything. We are pulling in
54:25
the information that we need from that web of light, from that source.
54:32
Absolutely, my guest, CJ. Llewellen, her book Chakras and the Vegest
54:38
Nerve tap into the healing combination of subtle energy and your nervous system. CJ.
54:45
One more time, please tell our listeners where they can get your book
54:47
and find out more about you and your wonderful work. Thank you so much.
54:52
So you know online Amazon and Barnes and Noble are carrying the book.
54:58
You can go to llewellyn Books dot com and order directly through them as well,
55:02
depending upon what your favorites aren't. Kind of going to Llewellen's a fun
55:07
experience too, because you have all sorts of different options there. I am
55:10
building out my website, so if you looked at CJ. Lewellen dot com
55:15
now you'll see my landing page. I should have a fairly engaged website here
55:21
shortly. It's kind of the project that I'm in right now, and you
55:24
could you can connect with me online. I am doing some fun videos on
55:30
TikTok. Sort of brief trauma informational videos on TikTok at CJ. Llewellen author,
55:37
and I'm also CJ. Lewellen author at on Instagram, where Else and
55:45
Facebook should I really do need to be writing these down at this point,
55:49
but I think if you put in CJ. Lewellen Life an Author or CJ
55:52
Lewellen dot Com, you will definitely find me somewhere out there in the cyber
55:58
world. Thank you so much for joining us and sharing your wisdom. Victor,
56:02
Thank you, this has been really fun. Thank you, and thank
56:07
you for joining us on Destination Unlimited. I'm a Victor, the voice perman
56:13
of a wonderful week