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Unearthing Mary Anning and Women in Fossils · Stuff Mom Never Told You

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha and what kind of stuff.
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: I never told your production of iHeartRadio. And today I'm
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: really excited because we're going to be talking about dinosaurs
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: a little bit, dinosaurs, Dina Sarles, and palegontology because, as
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: I mentioned, it is the it's nineteen ninety three, so
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: it'd be the thirtieth anniversary of Jurassic Park, which I
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: loved as a kid, Which is funny because you went
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: on the Daily Zeitgeist and talked about it.
• 0:44
  Speaker 2: Yes, because it's one of the host's favorite movie as well.
• 0:47
  Speaker 2: But he gets real serious. Yeah, that's what we discovered.
• 0:51
  Speaker 2: I really liked the movie too. I still have the
• 0:53
  Speaker 2: story about the fact that, yes, I played first chair
• 0:56
  Speaker 2: Trumbon to this in the band and had an amazing solo.
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: Nice. Yeah, I we played it in Bantu. I did
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: not have an amazing solo though, so sorry one up
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: you want after me on that one? That's all right?
• 1:10
  Speaker 2: Trombone it gets it, does it? Yeah? I mean if
• 1:16
  Speaker 2: you listen, like between like all the horns, you played
• 1:19
  Speaker 2: the horns though, right? What did you play? Uh?
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: Clarinet mainly, but I did. I did play some horns,
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: but mostly clarinet. Yeah, okay, that's brief, so yeah, essentially yeah. Yeah,
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: it's a beautiful song. Oh, beautiful score.
• 1:32
  Speaker 2: It's very memorable. I think everyone played it. I think
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: everything played the song.
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: I think so so. I did love that movie. I
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: it was one of the first memories I have of
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: getting in trouble is that I snuck in to see
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: it that night. I had a nightmare that a raptor
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: came and killed me.
• 1:55
  Speaker 2: Four How did you think theater?
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: By your it was walkable? So walkable?
• 2:00
  Speaker 2: Did you run away? Many questions?
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: What it was? This is you know? No, I just watched.
• 2:07
  Speaker 2: Down stream the theater by yourself.
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: Nobody. Well, that was the issue I got in Troublesome.
• 2:15
  Speaker 2: Okay, you snuck away.
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: I snuck away. Wow. I had to fess up when
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: I was so scared and like, what did you dream about?
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: Who are you into this movie? I am so how
• 2:26
  Speaker 2: did you have money? There are so many questions, Oh
• 2:28
  Speaker 2: I had I was a saver, even very young.
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: I was a saper.
• 2:32
  Speaker 2: Like when you told me you were snuck into a movie,
• 2:34
  Speaker 2: I assumed you were like eight or nine.
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: Wow. But that was also when movie tickets cost like
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: two three bucks. I guess.
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: So, I mean I was a teenager in this point,
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: like Jurassic Park was new, that's when we played the music.
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: So when you were saying you played it in the band,
• 2:54
  Speaker 2: I just which I shouldn't because I am significantly older
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: than you. But in my head that was the math.
• 2:59
  Speaker 2: And then you said that, and I was like, wait what.
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: The band conductor he had a son who was younger
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: than me, and he loved like like we played Phantom
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: Menace soundtrack when it came out because his son loved it.
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: Like I think it was a lot of John william
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: stuff that his son really really likes. But yeah, no,
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: I got in big trouble because I was too scared
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: to lie about it, to lie about the raptor coming
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: to kill me.
• 3:25
  Speaker 2: So shep like, it's on the TV.
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: No I don't. I wasn't that good of a liar
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: yet though not really. No oh, I haven't quite mastered that.
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: One scary scary dinosaurs.
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it scared me, but I loved it like I
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: I loved it. And it's funny because I've watched it
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: so much, even as young young kid, I remember, like,
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: it's interesting the different parts that scared me, like the
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: parts that scared me then are like the least scary
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: the scary parts to me now. And we actually we
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: talked about that in a movie Crush, where Chuck was
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: saying he's seeing that with his daughter too. Like what
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: you're afraid of changes as you get older.
• 4:09
  Speaker 2: Right, I'm afraid of the ride today?
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Oh good ride.
• 4:21
  Speaker 2: I still don't like it. That trade of source rocks
• 4:23
  Speaker 2: that comes out, yes, right before you drown petrified What
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: I didn't know that was going to happen because I
• 4:28
  Speaker 2: have this thing with like giant things sleeping at me
• 4:31
  Speaker 2: that's too close to me. Not a fan.
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I feel like every friend I've taken on that
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: ride has been mad at me afterwards.
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: So we didn't take me on that, right, someone else
• 4:40
  Speaker 2: took me on that right?
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: Okay?
• 4:42
  Speaker 2: First, And because I was in California my senior year,
• 4:46
  Speaker 2: I didn't know that I was afraid of that until
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: I came around like rides like that that. I was like,
• 4:50
  Speaker 2: oh no, I'm scared of these things. I'm just in
• 4:52
  Speaker 2: my mind they're going to come to life and kill
• 4:54
  Speaker 2: me and take me out. But like, yeah, and that's
• 4:57
  Speaker 2: the first song I discovered, the popping out of the fall.
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: I was like, what the then then like losing my mind.
• 5:02
  Speaker 2: I'm like never doing this again.
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah yep. And then I came along and and.
• 5:09
  Speaker 2: I did it. But I'm like, I'm now aware, and
• 5:12
  Speaker 2: I do not it in the front. I will mess
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: it in the back and I will toss it to
• 5:15
  Speaker 2: the sides if I can help it.
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: That sounds like there's no sea slope the middle of
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: the middle.
• 5:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I sit in the middle hole like when people
• 5:26
  Speaker 2: I'm not touching the size hello to grab me.
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: You know that's fair enough. You know what works for you?
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: Got it?
• 5:34
  Speaker 2: There's you would be real bad around dinosaurs in real life.
• 5:38
  Speaker 2: I would never survive.
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: No, I wouldn't either. No, there is a new ride
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: at Universe of the Velocity Coaster. I'm very excited to
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: write it. But it does not seem like your worst thing.
• 5:50
  Speaker 2: As long as as I jump at me would go
• 5:52
  Speaker 2: run like come out they Okay, absolutely not.
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: But I I'll report back after I write it, okay,
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: because I think it's it goes. It's a I asked
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: roller coasters, so I think I was.
• 6:01
  Speaker 2: Like, well that's fast. I think I'll be concentrating on
• 6:04
  Speaker 2: the fight that I'm gonna die that way fun.
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: It's so fun, isn't it. Yes, But my family loved
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: Drastic Park too, and my older brother, like he had
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: the Drastic Park sheets. He had the toys and sometimes
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: I got to play with them, including like the like egg,
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: the veloscer rapter egg and the t Rex that make
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: the sound and he moved it. So I really loved it.
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: And I loved Ellie Sattler. I did not know. I
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: did not know she was so young when they filmed that,
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: but I loved her. She was the one of the
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: first costumes I went to a jack in conn was
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: as her, uh and she does have some interesting I
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: remember being young and she's got that whole line like
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: women inherit the Earth and I was like, oh, okay,
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: so she was a big I meant to do it
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: before we came here, and now I don't have to
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: because it's a mess. But I have my Jurassic Park.
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: I collected Jurassic Park cards and I had a whole
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: section that was just her and it has like a
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: really cute maybe I'll take a picture and post it
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: on social that's a really cute illustration on it about
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: how much I love Jurassic Park.
• 7:16
  Speaker 2: Wow.
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: So I was very a very big fan. I read
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: the books. The books are very different, and I saw
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: an argument recently. One of the reasons this has been
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: on my mind. I'm not sure if I ever would
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: have realized this was the anniversary at all, that so
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: many outlets are posting about it. I was getting a
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: lot of updates about it. One of the arguments people
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: are having is in the book, Jean Hammond is a villain.
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: He's like, clearly a villain gets killed by the coffee sources,
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: and they were making the argument that it should have
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: been that way instead of like he made him very
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: likable in the movie, even though kind of what he did.
• 7:55
  Speaker 2: Was pretty not good, not good my life lines of
• 8:00
  Speaker 2: like going to try to the Titanic.
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, I mean.
• 8:05
  Speaker 2: The rich people like you have too much money, maybe
• 8:07
  Speaker 2: you want to reconsider this.
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: Right, right? And then it's it is kind of hilarious
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: and kind of frustrating. But a lot of the articles
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: that I was reading was like, this should not have
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: been a franchised because and then like everyone, you're like,
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: you did this again, Oh, and you did it again,
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: and then you did.
• 8:26
  Speaker 2: It three more times. What is happening? And you did
• 8:29
  Speaker 2: it with a kid.
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: What there is a really great after Jurassic World came out,
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: there's a really great dry article from a park planner
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: and he was just pointing out all of the like
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: things that were wrong. And it's done in like good humor.
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: It's not done in but I really enjoyed it, so
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: I wonder if it's still around. You can see our
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: previous Women in Science episodes. We just reran Women in Archaeology,
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: Women in Space NASA, which congrats to Sallyaride forty years
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: since going to space, and was mentioned in the Last
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: of Us, which I love. Women in Shark Science, which
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: we've also mentioned recently. A lot of the themes are
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: very frustratingly similar about like what is going on right
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: now in the world of these sciences for women. We're
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: going to talk about that at the end, but we're
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: going to start with a woman named Mary Anning, So
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: we're just going to do kind of showcase her because
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: she made a lot of strides, a lot of first
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: in paleontology that we know of, because it says we
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: know first can be complicated in what gets reported, which
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: we are going to talk about, and then look at
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: what's going on at large today. So Mary Anning was
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: a fossil hunter pioneer at a time when the field
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: of sciences was out right hostile to women. She was
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: kept out of conferences. Her discoveries were published under the
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: name of men. Often. There are books and movies about her,
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: including the twenty twenty fictionalized lesbian romance Ammonite, which I
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: had not heard of so briefly. She was born along
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: what is called the Jurassic Coast of southwestern England, so
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: named because there are fossils still being discovered there. It's
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: a UNESCO World Heritage Site now in seventeen ninety nine.
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: Her family was Protestant. They were religious dissmpters who separated
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: from the Church of England. They were very poor. Her
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: father made cabinets but also collected fossils. Of her nine
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: or ten siblings. Only she and her older brother made
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: it into adulthood. And there is a legend that during
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: a storm while she was an infant, a friend of
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: the family retreated with her two children under a tree
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: or two children under a tree, and a lightning strike
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: killed everyone but Mary, which is quite a story.
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: I feel like this is like like going along the
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: lines of the bitch at the beginning. Yes, a scientists,
• 11:07
  Speaker 2: but this little story part.
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: It doesn't know. I felt that too, samout that you
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: are not alone.
• 11:14
  Speaker 2: Okay, we watched too many movies. Yeah, So by five
• 11:17
  Speaker 2: or six, she was helping her father gathered fossils, which
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: was incredibly, incredibly rare for a girl at this time.
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: He taught her how to search for fossils on the beach,
• 11:27
  Speaker 2: how to clean them, and they would display them and
• 11:30
  Speaker 2: sometimes sell them in his shop. It was the norm
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: for girls in her area not to receive any formal education,
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: but she knew how to read and taught herself about
• 11:39
  Speaker 2: geology and anatomy. Her father died suddenly in eighteen ten,
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: and Mary's older brother, Joseph, took over the shop while
• 11:47
  Speaker 2: her mother encouraged Mary to sell her fines to help
• 11:50
  Speaker 2: them make money.
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and the popular seri is that he died he
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: had tuberculosis and he fell off the cliffs while they
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: were fossils.
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: So yeah, it is pretty all very sad. But I'm like,
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: this is really dark English, like historically it is.
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: It is, and it's not gonna get too much better. Well, well,
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: the area she lived in, Lime Regis was packed with
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: ammonites and bellum nites, and when locals were being guided
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: towards vacationing locally during the Napoleonic Wars, many people flocked
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: to this area and this beach and collecting fossils sort
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: of became posh, like it was something you'd come back from,
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: like a souvenir from the strip, like, oh, look what
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: I found. So it kind of grew in popularity.
• 12:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Joseph happened to discover a fossil of an odd
• 12:43
  Speaker 2: looking skull in eighteen twelve, married than twelve years old,
• 12:47
  Speaker 2: went about uncovering the whole thing, revealing a skeleton at
• 12:50
  Speaker 2: five point two meters in length about fifteen feet. It
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: took her months, and the whole town knew about it.
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: Speculating she found the remains of a monster. Scientists thought
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: it was a crocodile, which, yes, it is the monster.
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: Oh true, crocodiles terrify me too. For quick context here,
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: like very quick. Most people at the time believed that
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: unrecognizable fossils like this were those of creatures that migrated
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: from somewhere far away. The father of paleontology, Jeors Cuvier,
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: had only recently put forth the idea of extinction. Darwin's
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: origin of the species was almost five decades off, so
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: basically no one knew what the heck it was or
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: what was going on here, but they were like probably
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: from somewhere far away. Four years scientists debated the origins
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: of the fossil, eventually calling it ichthiosaurus or fish lizard,
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: though it was neither fish nor lizard. Nowadays we know
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: this creature was living two hundred and one to one
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: hundred and ninety four million years ago.
• 13:54
  Speaker 2: Wow.
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: So in the eighteen twenties, a friend of the family
• 13:59
  Speaker 2: and fossil collector named Lieutenant Colonel Thomas Burch auctioned off
• 14:03
  Speaker 2: his fossil collections to raise money for the family, explaining
• 14:07
  Speaker 2: they shouldn't live in poverty when they quote found almost
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: all the fine things which have been submitted to scientific investigation,
• 14:14
  Speaker 2: and he donated the proceeds to them.
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: This was not the last of Mary's controversial discoveries either.
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: In eighteen twenty three, she was the first to discover
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: the whole skeleton of a Plesiosaurus. It was so unlike
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: anything people had ever seen that rumors that it was
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: fake spread like wildfire. Cuvier himself stepped in alleging that
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: it could not be real. It was this whole thing.
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: There was a special meeting called at the Geological Society
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: of London where they debated back and forth, and eventually
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: Cuvier backtracked and admitted he was wrong and said that
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: it was quote the most amazing creature ever discovered. Mary
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: was not invited to defend her herself though at any
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: of this. Further, the scientific community at large was wary
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: of her, an avoidant of recognizing her work. In spite
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: of her growing reputation for finding fossils. On many occasions,
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: male scientists would buy the fossils she'd discovered and cleaned
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: and even identified sometimes and take credit for the discovery
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: without mentioning her at all, even when writing about it,
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: including her achtheisaur find. The Geological Society wouldn't let her in,
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: and in fact, it didn't allow any women in their
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: ranks until nineteen oh four. Mary found a fossil of
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: a creature with wings in eighteen twenty eight, a pterodactyl.
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: Once again, word traveled quickly about her find Around this time,
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: she also was a trailblazer in the study of coprolites,
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: or fossilized poop. She has a lot of First, we're
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: not going to go over all of them, but she
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: has quite a few, and she'd make these detailed drawings
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: and descriptions of her findings to not just the poop,
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: all of them. Eventually she made enough money to buy
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: a house with a storefront to sell fossils, and spent
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: a lot of her time fossil hunting, even in dangerous
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: could conditions. For instance, a rock fall almost killed her
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: and did kill her dog in eighteen thirty three.
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: Oh no, so here's a quote from the time printed
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: in the Bristol Mirror. This persevering female has for years
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: gone daily in search of fossil remains of importance at
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: every tide, for many miles under the hanging cliffs at Lyme,
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: whose fallen masses are her immediate object, as they alone
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: contain these valuable relics of a former world, which must
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: be snatched at the moment of their fall, at the
• 16:30
  Speaker 2: continual risk of being crushed by the half suspended fragments
• 16:33
  Speaker 2: they leave behind, or be left to be destroyed by
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: the returning tide. To her exertion. We owe nearly all
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: the fine specimens of a Ciasauri of the Great Collections.
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: She did have a reputation. People called her the geological
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: Lioness and the paleontology princess.
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: H I like the lion that's better I do do.
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: Throughout all of this, she continued to sell fossils, helping
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: grow the public interest in fossils to the point museums
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: struggling to meet demand. Her discoveries inspired her friend, geologist
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: Henri de la Besch to paint Duria Antikrier, a more
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: ancient Dorset, which he sold to raise money for Mary,
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: who was still struggling financially. In this painting, if you
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: look it up, it's pretty intense number one. But it
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: was also the start of kind of like this, this
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: sort of painting of fossils or artistic displays of fossils.
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: But yeah, he sold it to raise money for Mary,
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: who's still struggling financially. Yes, it was the first pictorial
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: art based on fossil evidence, and they were all her
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: discoveries that he was depicting. Her discoveries also inspired the
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: eighteen forty novel The Great Sea Dragons by Thomas Hawkins.
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: It was a geologist. Still, many did not believe that
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: a woman, and especially a lower class woman, could possibly
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: possess the skills to make these discoveries.
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: So here's an eighteen twenty four letter from the Lady
• 17:53
  Speaker 2: Harriet Sylvester about Mary. Quote. The extraordinary thing in this
• 17:58
  Speaker 2: young woman is that she has made herself I'm so
• 18:00
  Speaker 2: thoroughly acquainted with the science that the moment she finds
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: any bones, she knows to what tribe they belong. She
• 18:06
  Speaker 2: fixes the bones on a frame with semen, and then
• 18:09
  Speaker 2: makes drawings and has them engraved. It is certainly a
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: wonderful instance of divine favor that this poor ignorant girl
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: should be so blessed for by reading an application, she
• 18:20
  Speaker 2: has arrived at that degree of knowledge as to be
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: in the habit of writing and talking with professors and
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: other clever men on the subject, and they all acknowledge
• 18:29
  Speaker 2: that she understands more of the science than anyone else
• 18:32
  Speaker 2: in this kingdom. How nice? Insulting?
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah, well, especially because like that divine hands bit is
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: kind of implying like God granted her this gift and
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: it's not hers. And she was a religious woman, but
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: through this work she did not she did not believe
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: in the Bible's timeline of like when Earth was created
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: in all of that, and that got her in some
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: hot water, some folks. But yeah, when I was reading this,
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: so I was kind of like interesting, Okay, interesting, But
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: as as this lady was saying, they weren't just buying
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: her fossils which she had to sell to make ends
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: meet and taking the credit. They traveled to learn from
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: her too. Here's a letter from a friend of hers.
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: According to her account, these men of learning have sucked
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: her brains and made a great deal by publishing works
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: of which she furnished the contents, while she derived none
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: of the advantages. And then here's another quote from National Geographic.
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: An intimate French anatomist unjustly accused her of fraud. The
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: world has used me so unkindly, she wrote a friend.
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: I fear it has made me suspicious of all mankind.
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: Gideon Mantel, a physician and fossil hunter himself, who visited
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: her quote dirty Little Shop in eighteen thirty two, churlishly
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: called her a prim pedantic, vinegar looking thin female.
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: Right girl?
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: Looking?
• 19:57
  Speaker 2: Is that that sour face?
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: I guess she just wasn't smiling enough for him.
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: Oh so, here's a quote from eighteen thirty seven from
• 20:07
  Speaker 2: a German explorer. We had the pleasure of making the
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: acquaintance of the Princess of paleontology, Miss Anning. She is
• 20:14
  Speaker 2: a strong, energetic spinster of about twenty eight years of age,
• 20:18
  Speaker 2: tanned and masculine in expression. She was thirty eight, so
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: she was good.
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: I died laughing when I read that energetic spinster of
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: twenty eight. I do think that maybe the word was
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: used here as more being single, but in our modern
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: day and connotation, I feel like it as a much
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: more like older.
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: Also, but you are a spencer if you're not married
• 20:40
  Speaker 2: by the age seventeen sixteen, I guess, yeah, yeah.
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: But from my modern understanding, when I read that, I
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: laughed so right, and then was.
• 20:47
  Speaker 2: In my entire line like masculine, And then tan affords
• 20:52
  Speaker 2: us also an insult. We know and during this point
• 20:55
  Speaker 2: in time.
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: Anning died at the age of forty seven of breast
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: cancer in eighteen forty seven. She never married or had children.
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: Dyla Bash broke the society's members only rule to read
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: her eulogy at a meeting quote, I cannot close this
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: notice of our losses by death without adverting to that
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: of one who though not placed among even the easier
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: class of society, but one who had to earn her
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: daily bread by her labor, yet contributed by her talents
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: and untiring researches and no small degree to our knowledge.
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: And yeah, many of her discoveries are now on display
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: at the Natural History Museum of London. She has a
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: children's book, she has a couple of documentaries I think
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: about her, and a couple books. So she's got some
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: recognition now. But when I was thinking about it, when
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: I was reading about it, in a lot of ways,
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: we haven't come that far. And we're still having this
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: fight about credit and museums now, especially when it comes
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: to people of color. That is still ongoing and centuries later. Yeah,
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: many struggle to name five famous women scientists, which is
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: actually a statistic. I'm not just making that up. That
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: is a thing from a Smithsonian article. Quote. Women today
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: make up nearly half of student members in organizations like
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: the Society of Vertebrate Paleontology, but Ohio University Paleontologists Catherine
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: Early notes less than one quarter of professional members people
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: with staff jobs like curator or professor are women. The
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: reasons range from subtle discrimination to direct sexual harassment, but
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: they are all interrelated, from the classroom to the field.
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: Women are still trying to dig out from the attitude
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: that paleontology is a boys club, and the article went
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: on with this quote, it's only in the past few
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: years that the true extent of harassment in scientific field
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: work has come to light. So the best data we
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: have comes from the anthropologists catin Clancy and colleagues, who
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: in twenty fourteen reported that in a survey of six
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: hundred and sixty six field scientists across disciplines, sixty four
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: percent said they had faced some form of sexual harassment
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: in the field, and over twenty percent had been sexually assaulted.
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: The pattern was clear. Victims were of lower professional rank
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: than their harassers, many of whom felt that they were
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: in no position to report their abusers. Women trainees were
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: the primary targets of abuse the researchers found, while their
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: perpetrators were predominantly senior to them professionally within the research team,
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: and many reported that they felt they got no justice
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: after reporting and in fact have been punished, which is
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: what we talked about in our Shark Science episode. Yes,
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: women in Shark Science. And here's another quote from that
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: article about troops. The public image of paleontologists as Indiana
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: Jones type characters doesn't help any Through decades of science
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: popularization were left with the image of a palaeontologist as
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: a scruffy white man and a cowboy hat. Paleontologists such
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: as Jack Horner and Bob Becker have even served as
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: the inspiration for characters in Jurassic Park movies, standing in
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: as stereotypical paleos who represent the entire field in the
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: minds of the public. Just funny because I always think
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: of Ellie. But point is correct. But yes, documentaries on
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: dinosaurs also have been called out for featuring zero women,
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: zero people of color. We talked about that again in
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: that Shark Science episode about Shark Week. So in light
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: of that, there are some women's specific conferences, there are
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: conferences for people of color, specifically LGBTQ plus conferences in
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: this field where it's more about finding camaraderie and community
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: and working to build like organizations where they can get
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: more people in this field and we can talk about
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: these issues. So that's good to see. It is unfortunate
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: that this is where we are in twenty twenty three.
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: But it is good to see and I would love
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: if listeners, if you have been to anything like this,
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: if you have any thoughts on this. I know we
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: have some people who work it's not the same thing,
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: but who work in museums or curating in one way
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: or the other, so that would be cool. Just let
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: us know. You can email us at Stephania moms Stuff
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: at iHeartMedia dot com. You can find us on Twitter
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: at moms Stuff podcast, or on Instagram and TikTok at
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: stuff I've Never Told You. We're us on YouTube. We
• 25:30
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• 25:32
  Speaker 1: can pre order it at stuff you Should Read Books
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: dot com. You can also pre order it at Audible.
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: Thanks It's always to our super producer Christina, our executive
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: producer Maya, and our contributor Joey. Thank you and thanks
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: to you for listening. Stuff I Never Told You is
• 25:45
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• 25:49
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