Latest / Story Magic / 95 - You don't have to do anything we say lol

Transcript

95 - You don't have to do anything we say lol · Story Magic

• 2:14
  Emily: Foreign.
• 2:27
  Rachel: Hey, writers.
• 2:28
  Rachel: Welcome back to Story Magic, the podcast that will help you write a book you're damn proud of.
• 2:32
  Emily: I'm Emily.
• 2:33
  Rachel: And I'm Rachel.
• 2:35
  Emily: And today we're talking about not listening to us.
• 2:38
  Rachel: Don't do it.
• 2:40
  Emily: What do we know?
• 2:40
  Emily: Anything.
• 2:41
  Rachel: You don't know what we're doing.
• 2:44
  Rachel: You should see, like, our notes page for this says, today we're talking about not listening to us.
• 2:50
  Rachel: And it's got three exclamation points, and.
• 2:54
  Emily: All of the bullets are empty.
• 2:55
  Rachel: Yes. We didn't even try to fill it out.
• 2:59
  Rachel: We're like, let's just start.
• 3:01
  Emily: Okay, so let me start with context.
• 3:04
  Emily: So we were planning the scene structure simplified workshop, which this comes out in the future, so this will already have happened, and it will have been incredible.
• 3:15
  Rachel: You'll have.
• 3:17
  Emily: But as we do with all of our craft resources, we talk a lot about how, you know, you can use craft, writing, craft tools any way you want.
• 3:26
  Emily: And there's a million different ways.
• 3:27
  Emily: And, you know, if you've been listening to this podcast, you know that Rachel and I do not write in the same way.
• 3:31
  Emily: We do not use the tools in the same way.
• 3:33
  Emily: There's no right way to use a tool.
• 3:35
  Emily: And then I was, like, jokingly was like, or just don't use it.
• 3:38
  Rachel: Just don't use it.
• 3:41
  Rachel: Just come to our workshop and then just, like, don't use it.
• 3:44
  Rachel: It's fine.
• 3:45
  Emily: So then I said, okay, we should probably talk about the podcast, because I feel like it's such an interesting and important way to look at writing craft, and maybe just like, your yearly reminder that craft is just a tool and.
• 4:01
  Emily: And you don't have to use it if you don't want to.
• 4:05
  Emily: I'm writing right now, and I'm basically not using scene structure.
• 4:10
  Rachel: So this is just for you.
• 4:12
  Rachel: This.
• 4:13
  Rachel: This episode is.
• 4:16
  Emily: My point is, I don't listen to myself a lot of the time.
• 4:19
  Emily: Sometimes I do, sometimes I don't.
• 4:21
  Rachel: Sometimes I'm giant hypocrite.
• 4:23
  Emily: Whatever. Character arcs.
• 4:26
  Emily: Don't need them.
• 4:27
  Rachel: Who cares?
• 4:28
  Emily: I mean, eventually I'll think about it eventually, But I do.
• 4:33
  Emily: Yeah.
• 4:34
  Rachel: I don't know.
• 4:34
  Emily: Like, everybody writes differently.
• 4:35
  Emily: There's no right way to do this.
• 4:37
  Emily: And, like, if something that we are teaching doesn't resonate with you, then just don't listen.
• 4:42
  Rachel: Just don't do it.
• 4:43
  Rachel: No, I feel like this is completely valid.
• 4:46
  Rachel: And I also feel like, as writing teachers, we butt up against both sides of this all the time.
• 4:52
  Rachel: Where, like, one side is, we're trying to do the things we teach which don't always work for us.
• 4:59
  Emily: Right?
• 4:59
  Rachel: Like, we adapt is what I'm saying.
• 5:01
  Rachel: We, you, we have the knowledge and we adapt and we use it to our, our needs at the time, whatever those may be.
• 5:08
  Rachel: But I've always felt, and maybe you felt the same, but I've always felt a little pressure that like, I have to do all of the tools that I say otherwise, I'm like, lying, like, no, no, that's not true.
• 5:22
  Rachel: But then the other side of this is that for us as writing teachers, I think people want to do everything we're saying as the fix to all of their problems.
• 5:37
  Rachel: And I run up against this in one on one coaching all the time, where, like, I'll have clients that are like, well, just tell me what to do.
• 5:46
  Rachel: And I'm like, I cannot, I will help you, but I cannot, Like, I will help get you through this process.
• 5:53
  Rachel: We will learn.
• 5:54
  Rachel: I'll show you how to experiment.
• 5:56
  Rachel: We're gonna figure it out.
• 5:57
  Rachel: I'll give you guidance.
• 5:58
  Rachel: We're down the path, but people are like, looking for the capital A answers and then being like, give them to me and like, don't do what I say.
• 6:11
  Rachel: I don't know, just try it.
• 6:13
  Rachel: If you don't like it, who cares?
• 6:15
  Rachel: Move on.
• 6:17
  Emily: One of the things that I've always really loved about our partnership as teachers is the fact that, like, we've been able to take things such as story structure or scene structure and morph those tools into something that works regardless of process.
• 6:37
  Rachel: Right.
• 6:37
  Emily: Because you're a pantser.
• 6:38
  Emily: I'm a potter.
• 6:39
  Emily: Like, when we first started learning some of the craft tools, I feel like we had a bit of that mindset of the teachers, right.
• 6:46
  Emily: The other teachers, the ones we are learning from, you know, when we were getting started, they have all the answers, they have the right way.
• 6:52
  Emily: And then when we started to implement those tools, we kind of looked at each other and like, one of us wouldn't be able to jive with it.
• 6:58
  Emily: Like, it just wasn't working.
• 7:00
  Emily: And so then I feel like we were able to open up conversations of, okay, well, what's really at the root of what this tool is trying to do and how can we make it work for ourselves?
• 7:12
  Emily: And in doing that, I do feel like a lot of our tools are applicable regardless of process and that we do teach in a way that gets at what is the core purpose that this tool is trying to serve.
• 7:25
  Emily: But yeah, so I feel like our tools are great, but also you don't have to use them.
• 7:33
  Rachel: You don't have to use them.
• 7:34
  Rachel: We were joking earlier, like, I don't lose an ounce of sleep if this doesn't work for you.
• 7:41
  Rachel: And I don't.
• 7:42
  Rachel: I don't mean that at all, like, sassy or mean.
• 7:44
  Rachel: I mean, like, I feel like this whole writing process has reached.
• 7:48
  Rachel: Reached a point as Zen for me where I'm like, I can teach you the craft.
• 7:53
  Rachel: And if that were.
• 7:53
  Rachel: If that makes sense to you, cool.
• 7:55
  Rachel: And if it doesn't, cool.
• 7:56
  Rachel: And like, they're going, we're a blip in the universe.
• 8:02
  Rachel: You know, like, it's all going to be fine.
• 8:06
  Rachel: But I think that as you've just described, what we went through to figure out the core is what I hope people do with their own writing process.
• 8:17
  Rachel: You know, like, we went through all the different.
• 8:21
  Rachel: We had so many discussions about character arcs and show, don't tell and all that to get at the heart, as you said, of why they work or why this tool is being taught in the first place.
• 8:33
  Rachel: And if you do the same thing and you come to the conclusion of, like, this doesn't serve me more power to you.
• 8:40
  Rachel: I have read plenty of books that are wildly popular that don't meet craft rules, and then I've also read plenty of books that meet craft rules but are not wildly popular.
• 8:55
  Rachel: And, like, there's.
• 8:58
  Rachel: There's just, like, I was just talking about, like, okay, then what's the.
• 9:03
  Rachel: What's the.
• 9:05
  Rachel: You know, the missing ingredient?
• 9:05
  Rachel: Like, what's the.
• 9:07
  Rachel: What's the hidden key to, like, how books get popular?
• 9:12
  Rachel: And a lot of it comes down to, like, what is this book doing to serve its readers?
• 9:17
  Rachel: And we've talked about this book on the podcast before, but, like, the Seven Figure Fiction book.
• 9:23
  Rachel: Gosh, I can never t. Taylor.
• 9:25
  Rachel: I have to look it up again.
• 9:27
  Rachel: Seven Figure Fiction.
• 9:29
  Rachel: Yeah. By T. Taylor talks about universal fantasy.
• 9:33
  Rachel: And to me now I'm like, universal fantasy.
• 9:36
  Rachel: If you're hitting on those parts in a book, if you're hitting on universal fantasies, people are going to love that book regardless of how well structured it is, regardless of, like, how well it's written.
• 9:45
  Rachel: Because there.
• 9:46
  Rachel: Because that's, like, the emotion that people want to find.
• 9:51
  Rachel: And I. There are just so many ways to get there.
• 9:55
  Emily: Yeah.
• 9:56
  Rachel: That, like, our stuff is just one way.
• 9:59
  Emily: And that's why, like, I know that there are people in our tenacious writing community who don't use any of our writing craft stuff at all.
• 10:07
  Emily: And I do think that that's why craft is one piece of this.
• 10:12
  Emily: And so many people, I do think, come to our resources Hoping, like you said, to find the answers to solve their problems.
• 10:19
  Emily: And that doesn't mean that writing craft can't help you solve your problems.
• 10:22
  Emily: But at the end of the day, you have to choose what your story is going to be and you have to decide what you want your story to look like.
• 10:29
  Emily: And a writing craft tool can help you arrive at that answer.
• 10:32
  Emily: But that is an answer that you have to own.
• 10:34
  Emily: Um, and I do think that that takes Right.
• 10:39
  Emily: Self trust and confidence to figure out what that is.
• 10:42
  Emily: And you don't need to know any writing craft to find that trust and confidence.
• 10:47
  Emily: Tools might help you get there, but they're not the only, like, you have to find the trust and confidence in yourself outside of those tools, I think to be able to like, really finish books that you love in a way that you love.
• 10:58
  Emily: And so that.
• 10:58
  Emily: My point is, that is why we focus so much on the mindset stuff.
• 11:02
  Rachel: Yeah.
• 11:02
  Emily: Intonations writing as well.
• 11:03
  Emily: Because craft tools don't mean crap.
• 11:05
  Rachel: Yeah.
• 11:06
  Emily: And if you don't have the right mindset, because if you don't learn how to trust yourself and learn how to have confidence in your writing process, then a tool is just a crutch and it's not actually going to help you find confidence in any of your decisions.
• 11:20
  Emily: Yeah.
• 11:21
  Emily: And I, that I feel like as I'm speaking, I'm hoping that this doesn't sound too discouraging because I do.
• 11:26
  Emily: Like, I've been there.
• 11:27
  Emily: I've been that person who's been like, I don't know how to write a book, so I want to learn how to write a book.
• 11:32
  Emily: And that writing craft is going to help me write a book that I love.
• 11:34
  Emily: And I've been, I've honestly been in that spinning wheels place of wanting the craft tools to solve problems that I just didn't have.
• 11:42
  Emily: Like, I didn't trust myself enough to make those decisions.
• 11:45
  Rachel: Yeah.
• 11:45
  Emily: Um, and so I kept going back and forth on the decisions and all of that.
• 11:48
  Emily: And at the end of the day, like, you just have to write the book and then the tools will help you figure out how to bring it, you know, bring the vision that you have for that story to life.
• 11:56
  Emily: But first you gotta get the book down.
• 11:58
  Rachel: Yeah.
• 11:59
  Emily: And if you're, if you're stuck in that craft space, like searching for the answers in a tool, you're not gonna get there.
• 12:08
  Emily: The book's not gonna get written.
• 12:10
  Rachel: Exactly. Yes. I, I think we've said this a lot, but process without mindset falls apart.
• 12:16
  Rachel: And that to me, like, when a Writer's asking me questions about, you know, what's the most important thing to learn?
• 12:24
  Rachel: Or like, what's the best, what's the best story structure?
• 12:28
  Rachel: Or like, how do you, at what point, what percentage point of the book should this happen?
• 12:34
  Rachel: I'm like, you know, what's way more important to me is whether or not you can actually sit down and write words.
• 12:41
  Rachel: And if you have like a mental roadblock, you will not sit down and write words.
• 12:46
  Rachel: So all the other stuff just feels a lot like very superfluous.
• 12:50
  Rachel: Sometimes when it's so clear that you're not struggling because you don't know the craft, you're struggling because you're experiencing perfectionism or imposter syndrome or you're constantly comparing yourself to other people.
• 13:03
  Rachel: And like all those things I feel like are important also I want to say much more important.
• 13:12
  Rachel: They're just all pieces.
• 13:14
  Rachel: It's all pieces of the puzzle.
• 13:16
  Emily: Yeah. And then, and like I feel like the goal is not necessarily to master the craft of writing.
• 13:22
  Emily: The goal is to find the self trust that is required because a lot of it is required to write.
• 13:30
  Emily: I'm saying, I say it that way because I'm trying to trust myself right now.
• 13:34
  Emily: Right.
• 13:34
  Emily: Like a lot of it is required to get a draft down that, you know, isn't your final vision.
• 13:39
  Rachel: Right.
• 13:39
  Emily: Yeah. Like you have to have a lot of trust that you can eventually figure it out.
• 13:44
  Emily: And so cultivating that trust, because that doesn't come easily, but cultivating that trust I feel like is, I do, I am going to put my stake in the ground and say that that's more important.
• 13:54
  Rachel: Yeah.
• 13:55
  Emily: Than like mastering the craft.
• 13:57
  Emily: Craft is helpful.
• 13:58
  Emily: It's useful.
• 13:58
  Emily: It helps us find trust, it helps us have ideas, it helps us, you know, figure out how to bring our vision to life.
• 14:03
  Emily: But it's not, I don't know, you need that self trust.
• 14:08
  Rachel: Yeah, I agree.
• 14:10
  Rachel: I think also like craft evolves.
• 14:14
  Rachel: It's constantly evolving.
• 14:17
  Rachel: And I, I mean that in not only like I, I, perhaps the principles stay the same, but how they're applied evolves.
• 14:26
  Rachel: And the more that our, I, I also think we've talked about this about on the podcast before and in tw that like craft as a pre.
• 14:34
  Rachel: As a thing is like so western and so like white centric.
• 14:39
  Rachel: And the more that that changes, the more craft will evolve.
• 14:43
  Rachel: And, and my point is that it's should be changing.
• 14:48
  Rachel: Like I think with any, any skill it shifts.
• 14:53
  Rachel: The more you learn it, you learn new things, you learn how apply to it, to apply it Differently and like, you know, focusing over, Focusing on knowing the answers.
• 15:06
  Rachel: Like, those answers have a time limit, I think, anyway, so, I don't know, just come at it more fluidly.
• 15:17
  Rachel: It's going to change.
• 15:18
  Rachel: You're going to learn.
• 15:19
  Rachel: I think the more that you write, the more you learn how to apply things differently, and the smarter you get and the more you read, the more your perspective alters and the more you see how things work in action.
• 15:31
  Rachel: And like, yeah, yeah.
• 15:35
  Emily: I feel like writing tools are useful, like I've said, like, 16 times already on this packet, but I do.
• 15:43
  Emily: I think what your point about actually getting the words down and then evaluating how to make those words bring to life the vision that you have for the story and also analyzing published works that you enjoy to figure out what makes them work.
• 15:57
  Emily: Like, those to me, are so much more effective at helping you bring your story to life than like, reading another craft book or learning another structure like those.
• 16:06
  Emily: Those tools are helpful in helping you understand, you know, how certain types of stories work.
• 16:10
  Emily: But to figure out, like, the exact kind of stories that you like to read that you want to tell, you have to dig into those stories and, like, really look at, you know, why is this working for me?
• 16:20
  Emily: What do I like about it?
• 16:20
  Emily: How is it structured?
• 16:23
  Emily: And that brings lot more interesting questions, in my opinion, to the, you know, to the situation.
• 16:28
  Emily: And I also feel like it brings more.
• 16:33
  Emily: I've been reading a lot of thrillers lately to try to, like, put together my suspense, my new suspense novel.
• 16:38
  Emily: And it's just been like, a really interesting thing because a lot of the stuff that I'm finding that they're doing is not like your.
• 16:42
  Emily: Your typical character arc or like, Sean Hotel.
• 16:46
  Emily: It's not all, like, the scenes aren't structured in the same exact way.
• 16:48
  Emily: Right.
• 16:48
  Emily: And so when you get down to, like, what is this?
• 16:51
  Emily: You know, the exact kind of story that you're trying to tell, like, looking at similar stories could be really, really useful.
• 16:56
  Emily: And having a basic understanding of craft also helps me analyze those stories.
• 17:01
  Emily: So, like, it's not always easy to analyze something if you don't have the language with which to analyze it.
• 17:06
  Emily: So again, I'm not saying craft isn't useful, but it just.
• 17:09
  Emily: It's a tool.
• 17:10
  Emily: It's not an answer.
• 17:11
  Rachel: Yeah, yeah.
• 17:13
  Rachel: And we are only giving you, like, one tool in your toolbox.
• 17:17
  Rachel: Yeah.
• 17:17
  Rachel: You know that.
• 17:18
  Rachel: I mean, that's kind of the metaphor is like, we're giving you a tool each time we have a podcast, each time we have a craft thing.
• 17:24
  Rachel: It's just one tool.
• 17:25
  Rachel: And, like, maybe for you, the handle on this tool doesn't fit right.
• 17:30
  Rachel: You know, like, maybe the grip is wrong.
• 17:31
  Rachel: Maybe you need to, like, figure out a different way to make it work.
• 17:36
  Rachel: Maybe you need someone else's tool.
• 17:38
  Rachel: Maybe you need, like, a powered tool instead of a handheld tool.
• 17:42
  Rachel: I'm just gonna keep going with the tool then.
• 17:44
  Emily: Of course.
• 17:44
  Rachel: But, like, my point is, a toolbox has a lot of different things inside of it.
• 17:48
  Rachel: Yeah.
• 17:49
  Rachel: And we're giving you some of them.
• 17:51
  Rachel: And, like, if the tools aren't for you, find other ones.
• 17:55
  Emily: And some of our tools or document for you.
• 17:57
  Emily: And some of them might not.
• 17:59
  Emily: I know.
• 17:59
  Emily: And that's great.
• 18:00
  Emily: Like, we might connect with you at a story level and not at a, you know, the line level.
• 18:06
  Emily: And, like, whatever.
• 18:07
  Emily: Take whatever tools work for you.
• 18:10
  Emily: Leave the rest in the library for somebody else.
• 18:12
  Emily: Yeah.
• 18:12
  Rachel: Yeah. Okay. Experiment.
• 18:15
  Rachel: That's it.
• 18:15
  Rachel: I don't know.
• 18:16
  Rachel: That's it.
• 18:16
  Emily: The end.
• 18:17
  Rachel: Whatever.
• 18:18
  Rachel: The end.
• 18:19
  Emily: I feel like the theme this year.
• 18:20
  Rachel: Is don't take everything so seriously, be so unserious.
• 18:25
  Rachel: That's like, my new motto to myself.
• 18:27
  Rachel: Like, none.
• 18:28
  Rachel: I just.
• 18:29
  Rachel: What's to say?
• 18:29
  Rachel: Like, I love my children, but they are not serious people.
• 18:36
  Rachel: Yeah. I think about that line.
• 18:39
  Rachel: I've never seen the show.
• 18:40
  Emily: I know.
• 18:40
  Emily: I was about to say, have you seen Succession?
• 18:43
  Rachel: But I see that everywhere.
• 18:45
  Rachel: It makes me laugh every time.
• 18:47
  Rachel: Yeah.
• 18:48
  Rachel: I want to be unserious.
• 18:50
  Emily: This show is so good.
• 18:52
  Emily: Okay, we are going to end this.
• 18:54
  Rachel: All right.
• 18:54
  Emily: On a tangent.
• 18:56
  Rachel: Okay. That's it.
• 18:57
  Rachel: If you want to build a successful, fulfilling, and sustainable writing life that works for you, you've got to get on our email list.
• 19:03
  Emily: Sign up now to get our free email course, the Magic of Character Arcs.
• 19:06
  Emily: After seven days of email magic, you'll have the power to keep your readers flipping pages all through the night.
• 19:11
  Rachel: Link in the show notes.
• 19:12
  Rachel: We'll see you there.
• 19:13
  Emily: Bye. By it.