Latest / The Restaurant Guys / Martini Expo 2026 | Vol. 2: Colin Asare-Appiah, François Monti & Ryan Maybee

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Martini Expo 2026 | Vol. 2: Colin Asare-Appiah, François Monti & Ryan Maybee · The Restaurant Guys

0:42
Mark (2): Hello everybody and welcome.
0:43
Mark (2): You are listening to the Restaurant Guys.
0:45
Mark (2): I'm Mark Pascal and I'm here with Francis Shot.
0:47
Mark (2): Together we own stage left and Ka Lombardi restaurants in New Brunswick, New Jersey.
0:51
Mark (2): We're here to bring you the inside track on food, wine, and the finer things in life.
0:56
Francis: So on the show today, we have three more super interesting guys that we pulled aside and spoke with at the Martini Expo in Chicago.
1:03
Francis: We have Colin Asare-Appiah.
1:05
Francis: Colin Asare-Appiah wrote Black Mixcellence, which is an amazing book.
1:09
Francis: It's tremendous.
1:10
Francis: We love it.
1:11
Francis: And he is intimately involved with Ajabu, which is the African cocktail festival that's taking Africa by storm.
1:18
Francis: We spoke with Francois Monti.
1:20
Francis: Francois Monti is a Belgian spirits writer who's a vermouth expert, and he wrote the wonderful book 101 Cocktails to Try Before You Die.
1:26
Francis: And then finally, Ryan Mabee from Rieger Distillery and the many bars and restaurants attached to the distillery.
1:33
Francis: These guys are super fun and interesting, so.
1:34
Francis: Uh, each of them were interesting- Yeah in different ways, right?
1:37
Francis: Yeah.
1:37
Francis: Which, it was a lot of fun.
1:38
Francis: It's definitely why you go to an event like that.
1:41
Francis: I mean, it, it is wonderful to travel around the world and meet people, but this was a nice, you know, I call it a pro-am.
1:47
Francis: A lot of consumers were there, a lot of just super interested cocktail enthusiasts, but some of the makers of gin and makers- Mm of vermouth and best bartenders from multiple continents all in one place.
1:59
Francis: And the thing about it is it's still kinda small enough you can actually find these folks and have a conversation with them at a party.
2:04
Francis: Yes.
2:04
Francis: For, for me, one of the things I really like about it is, it's twofold.
2:07
Francis: I get to connect with people I know and don't get to see enough anymore.
2:11
Francis: Mm, mm.
2:12
Francis: You know, and then there's a guy like Ryan Maybee that I never met before- Yeah...until this, until this festival.
2:16
Francis: really interesting guy who, you know, has, Rieger Spirits and, we tasted some stuff that was amazing, and we're gonna bring into our restaurants now.
2:23
Francis: that's to me what it's all about, you know, the, a little bit of the old, a little bit of the new, mix them together.
2:28
Francis: And, Colin was very cool to talk to.
2:30
Francis: Yeah.
2:30
Francis: Because frankly, I don't know much about Ajabu.
2:33
Francis: Yeah.
2:34
Francis: But I wanna go to Africa- to the cocktail festival in Africa.
2:37
Francis: I mean, he's bringing it, this whole thing to a new continent- Yep which is very exciting to talk to.
2:41
Francis: So I hope you guys find it as interesting as we do, and we're about to go there right now.
2:46
Francis: Back to Chicago.
2:50
Speaker 7: so our
2:51
MIC3: our next victim on the couch at the Martini Expo is, uh, Colin Asare-Appiah.
2:55
MIC3: He's a long time and highly influential figure in the cocktail and spirits industry.
2:59
MIC3: Um, he was born in Ghana, raised in London.
3:01
Speaker 7: began his career in
3:02
MIC3: in the British bar scene.
3:03
MIC3: He became the first cocktail guide to the BBC Good Food Show, and at 22, he co-founded the London
3:09
Speaker 7: of Bartenders He's
3:11
MIC3: He's the co-founder of Ajabu, a cocktail and spirits
3:14
Speaker 7: in
3:14
MIC3: South Africa, which is all the rage.
3:16
MIC3: Everyone's talking about that.
3:18
MIC3: And his excellent new book, he's co-author of Black Mixcellence: A Comprehensive
3:23
Speaker 7: to Black Mixology.
3:24
MIC1: Colin, welcome to the show.
3:25
MIC1: Thank you.
3:25
MIC1: It's great to be here.
3:25
Speaker 6: you.
3:26
Speaker 6: It's great to be here.
3:27
Speaker 6: Thanks for having me.
3:28
Speaker 6: We appreciate you.
3:28
Speaker 6: Appreciate it.
3:29
Speaker 5: I,
3:29
MIC1: I I really wanna start with Ajabu.
3:31
MIC1: Yes.
3:31
MIC1: I mean, it seems to be just literally took Tales of the Cocktail by storm
3:35
Speaker 5: year.
3:35
Speaker 6: Yep.
3:36
Speaker 5: And, uh, you
3:37
MIC1: know, everybody's talking about
3:38
Speaker 6: Everybody's talking about it.
3:40
Speaker 6: And I'd love to tell you more about it.
3:41
Speaker 6: but before I do, as soon as I say one, two, you say Ajabu.
3:45
Speaker 6: one, two.
3:46
Speaker 6: Ajabu.
3:46
Speaker 5: Ajabu.
3:47
Speaker 6: One, two.
3:47
Speaker 6: Ajabu.
3:47
Speaker 6: Ajabu Brilliant.
3:49
Speaker 6: Ajabu
3:49
MIC2: Ajabu means
3:51
Speaker 6: And amazing- It's a great word in Swahili.
3:53
Speaker 6: I love it, And it's a cocktail festival that I started with my, co-founder, Mark Holmes.
3:58
Speaker 6: Uh, we've been friends for years.
3:59
Speaker 6: Uh,
4:00
MIC2: years.
4:01
Speaker 6: we, uh, fell in love actually and became friends over a, a cosmopolitan'cause he said,"Colin, you make me the best cosmo ever." I should have told Toby sh- knew that.
4:11
Speaker 6: Yeah.
4:11
MIC2: Actually, that, his, that his cocktail
4:13
MIC1: should have told Toby you
4:14
MIC2: helped build one of my, long-lasting, uh, friendships and relationships.
4:18
Speaker 5: I just need to let you know-
4:20
Speaker 6: Yes
4:20
Speaker 5: I realize the cosmopolitan has led to some of my shortest relationships as
4:23
MIC1: relationships
4:24
Speaker 5: well,
4:24
MIC1: So,
4:25
Speaker 5: so...
4:25
MIC1: so...
4:26
MIC1: Yeah,
4:27
Speaker 6: Yeah, that too.
4:28
Speaker 6: Yeah,
4:28
Speaker 7: yeah.
4:28
Speaker 6: That part.
4:29
Speaker 6: Yeah.
4:29
Speaker 6: That too.
4:29
Speaker 6: And, uh, and has led me to some, uh, really early nights.
4:33
Speaker 7: Yeah.
4:33
Speaker 6: cause they, they are known as creepers, those cosmos.
4:35
MIC3: Yeah, they are.
4:36
MIC3: It's innocent looking It's
4:37
Speaker 6: are.
4:37
Speaker 6: And it's innocent looking.
4:39
Speaker 6: Come on.
4:39
Speaker 6: Yeah.
4:39
Speaker 7: Yeah, yeah.
4:40
Speaker 6: But Ajabu, is, uh, I was saying, was started by, Mark And, myself, uh, really to shine a light on the amazing, uh, things that were happening on the African continent.
4:51
Speaker 7: Yeah,
4:51
Speaker 6: As we all know, Africa is a continent, not a country.
4:54
Speaker 7: Yes.
4:55
Speaker 6: 54 different countries- Yes one of the largest land masses on the planet.
4:59
Speaker 6: Right.
5:00
Speaker 6: And the diversity and the rich tapestry of ingredients, flavors are abs- and the people are absolutely magnificent, So we wanna shine a light on it.
5:11
Speaker 6: So the idea was that we would bring some of the best in the world-
5:15
Speaker 7: Yeah
5:16
Speaker 6: and bring some of the best in, on the African continent to Cape Town and Jo'burg to celebrate the art of the cocktail.
5:24
Speaker 7: So what i- is the state of the cocktail culture
5:28
MIC3: in,
5:29
Speaker 7: Town and different countries in Africa?
5:31
Speaker 7: And uh, is part of
5:32
MIC3: of what you're doing to celebrate the cocktail culture that's there, and part of what you're doing to bring cocktail
5:37
Speaker 7: to the places where it isn't prominent in Africa?
5:39
Speaker 6: Uh, yeah.
5:40
Speaker 6: I mean, cocktail, Cocktail com, culture is available in a majority of um, countries in Africa.
5:47
Speaker 7: Okay.
5:48
MIC2: They're all at
5:48
Speaker 6: levels of growth.
5:49
Speaker 6: Same as in Europe- Sure same as in South America- Sure same in the
5:53
MIC2: the Americas.
5:55
MIC2: And the beauty of it is we're catching
5:58
Speaker 6: all the cocktail
5:58
MIC2: cultures at different stages of their progression, and people are really bringing all of their
6:05
Speaker 6: experiences to bear.
6:06
Speaker 6: Exactly.
6:06
MIC2: And they're highlighting And showcasing
6:09
Speaker 6: what they do best.
6:10
Speaker 6: And
6:10
MIC2: what I love is we have, Uh, bartenders coming from Ghana, from Nigeria, from,
6:15
Speaker 6: um,
6:16
MIC2: here at Nai- Nairobi, for example.
6:18
MIC2: Um, recently, we just had a call saying that we're gonna be having bartenders
6:23
Speaker 6: from, um, Morocco as well- Wow which is gonna be the next- Perfect which is
6:27
MIC2: is the next place of the World Cup.
6:28
MIC2: So
6:29
MIC3: so, what was the
6:30
Speaker 7: year of the, of
6:31
Speaker 6: the festival?
6:31
Speaker 6: Uh, to, 2023, yeah,
6:33
MIC3: And so this will
6:34
Speaker 7: the third
6:35
Speaker 6: year?
6:35
MIC2: was the first year of the Cup, of the competition?
6:35
MIC2: Uh, two thou- uh, 2023.
6:35
MIC2: 2020- 2023, yeah.
6:35
MIC2: And so this will be the, the- This is the third year, and we do it biannually.
6:38
MIC2: We do it in March, and we do it in, um, November every year.
6:41
MIC2: So our November
6:42
Speaker 6: as
6:42
Speaker 5: well.
6:42
MIC1: See, I always worry about words like biannually.
6:44
Speaker 5: does that
6:45
MIC1: mean every other year or does that mean-
6:46
MIC2: yeah, yeah yeah, yeah,
6:48
MIC3: which way does that
6:48
MIC2: know.
6:49
MIC2: I know, I know.
6:50
MIC1: me up.
6:50
Speaker 7: months.
6:51
Speaker 7: Every
6:51
MIC3: can
6:51
Speaker 7: would say that messes me up.
6:52
Speaker 7: I know.
6:52
Speaker 7: You can screw up in some- That's what I
6:53
MIC3: You can screw up in English and math, and you don't know which is which.
6:55
MIC3: But how do
6:56
Speaker 7: people find out about it?
6:57
Speaker 7: Because if somebody's driving and
6:58
MIC3: or they don't have time right this time, but w-
6:59
Speaker 7: they don't have time right this time, but w- w- is there a website they go to?
7:00
Speaker 7: Yeah, there's a
7:00
Speaker 6: website you go to.
7:02
Speaker 6: Uh, you go
7:02
MIC2: go to ajabufestival.com.
7:05
MIC2: And then also,
7:06
Speaker 6: obviously, you find us
7:07
MIC2: on social.
7:07
MIC2: Yeah.
7:08
MIC2: So
7:08
Speaker 6: on social.
7:08
Speaker 6: Yeah.
7:08
Speaker 6: So Jabu Festival on Instagram, really easy- And do a lot of people,
7:11
Speaker 7: do people come from America and Europe to-
7:13
Speaker 6: Lots of people come from the States and
7:15
Speaker 7: Europe.
7:15
Speaker 7: That's great.
7:15
Speaker 6: We have bartenders coming from, uh, Europe.
7:17
Speaker 6: We've had, bartenders coming from Mexico.
7:20
Speaker 6: We had, um, Eric Garcin at Handshake when they won the Best Bar in the World.
7:24
MIC2: first
7:24
Speaker 6: first tour they did- Uh-huh...was they went to Ghana, came to.
7:28
Speaker 6: us, Jabu, and then they went to Kenya, and then went back to Mexico.
7:31
Speaker 7: So can we be official podcasters
7:33
MIC3: the, of, the, of, the-...of Ajabu?
7:35
MIC3: Can we
7:35
Speaker 7: down?
7:35
MIC2: Let's have a
7:36
Speaker 6: All
7:36
Speaker 7: right.
7:37
Speaker 7: All right.
7:37
Speaker 7: And
7:37
Speaker 6: let's see.
7:37
Speaker 6: Well, we, We don't
7:38
Speaker 7: have to be official.
7:38
Speaker 7: We can just be the
7:39
Speaker 6: sideline there.
7:40
Speaker 6: You can just be in.
7:41
Speaker 6: yeah.
7:41
Speaker 6: yeah.
7:41
MIC2: get
7:41
Speaker 6: just get involved is what I'd like to
7:42
Speaker 7: say.
7:43
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah.
7:43
Speaker 5: And to be fair, we've been stealing the African ingredients for our cocktails since the beginning of time.
7:48
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
7:49
Speaker 6: since the- beginning of, time.
7:50
Speaker 6: Yeah.
7:50
Speaker 6: I mean, if you look at things like vanilla,
7:53
MIC2: Madagascar
7:55
Speaker 6: for instance.
7:55
Speaker 6: Sure.
7:55
Speaker 6: I mean, a lot of um If you look at the,
7:57
MIC2: If you look at ingredients in-
7:58
Speaker 6: as well.
7:59
Speaker 5: Yeah.
8:00
Speaker 6: Juniper.
8:00
Speaker 6: Uh, ju- uh, well, juniper.
8:01
Speaker 6: The best
8:01
Speaker 5: juniper- in the world though comes from Africa.
8:03
MIC2: Yeah, it does.
8:04
MIC2: I mean, uh,
8:05
Speaker 6: around, the,
8:07
MIC2: juniper conversation at the moment, uh, there is a great, um,
8:11
Speaker 6: juniper that's being grown in Kenya at the moment that- Oh, spectacular
8:14
MIC2: is being, is doing really, really well.
8:17
MIC3: well.
8:18
MIC3: and you...
8:18
Speaker 7: everyone, we, we're alluding obviously we, we launched Procera Gin in New Jersey
8:21
MIC3: at our bars,
8:22
Speaker 7: a bar.
8:22
Speaker 7: Of course.
8:22
Speaker 7: Yeah, yeah.
8:22
Speaker 7: And they've got a show on Procera Gin, so- Yeah.
8:23
Speaker 7: We love Procera
8:24
Speaker 6: by association, that's great.
8:24
Speaker 6: We love that.
8:24
Speaker 6: We love
8:24
Speaker 7: Procera.
8:25
Speaker 7: They're great
8:25
MIC3: We love that We love Procera.
8:27
MIC3: Yeah,
8:27
MIC2: and they're great fans,
8:28
Speaker 6: they're great
8:28
MIC2: supporters of ours, and they're part of the A- Adobo
8:32
Speaker 6: Yeah of ours.
8:32
Speaker 6: They're part of the the Jabu cocktail experience
8:32
Speaker 7: family.
8:32
Speaker 7: Well, we'll put up the information in the show notes if you wanna go to the Jabu.
8:35
Speaker 7: It Sounds like a great fun trip, uh, down
8:37
Speaker 6: the line.
8:37
Speaker 6: Oh, no, it's amazing.
8:38
Speaker 6: Uh, it's a week-long festival.
8:40
Speaker 6: We have seminars.
8:41
MIC2: workshops.
8:42
MIC2: Obviously, we have
8:43
Speaker 7: Love
8:43
Speaker 6: it.
8:43
Speaker 6: and we have collaborations because one of the things that we've always wanted to do is, uh, we wanna connect Uh, collaborate, create, and celebrate-
8:51
Speaker 7: I love it...the
8:51
Speaker 6: cocktail
8:52
Speaker 7: Sounds like, well, if the celebration of
8:55
MIC3: Ajabu at Tales of the Cocktail is any
8:57
Speaker 7: Oh, yeah...the real
8:58
MIC3: thing is like, it's a
8:59
Speaker 7: amount of fun
9:00
MIC2: Yeah, exactly.
9:01
MIC2: We're just scratching the surface.
9:02
Speaker 6: Tales.
9:03
Speaker 6: When you come and have a full,
9:05
MIC2: um, immersive
9:06
Speaker 6: immersive experience Ah...at Ajabu in and honestly, it's hard to beat...Cape Town,
9:10
Speaker 5: it's- It's hard to beat
9:11
Speaker 6: absolutely incredible.
9:12
Speaker 6: And also y- when you're there as well, you get the opportunity to celebrate, um, or
9:17
MIC2: engage with the food and the arts, And
9:19
Speaker 6: you can travel around the wine country- Mm in South Africa.
9:22
Speaker 6: It's mind-blowing.
9:23
Speaker 6: Yeah.
9:24
Speaker 6: I love it.
9:24
Speaker 6: Some
9:24
Speaker 5: of the
9:25
Speaker 6: best wines that you'll try.
9:26
Speaker 6: I love it.
9:26
Speaker 6: So
9:26
Speaker 5: I, I- And the
9:27
MIC2: the seafood,
9:28
Speaker 6: oof.
9:28
Speaker 6: The,
9:29
Speaker 5: the South African wine world- You know, the
9:33
MIC1: first couple of wines we got from South Africa.
9:35
MIC1: I think were kind
9:36
Speaker 5: the the more mass produced wines, and a lot of us got a, a false sense
9:40
MIC1: of what South African wines are all about.
9:42
Speaker 5: And now these spectacular wines from Mullinou and Matt Norris and
9:47
MIC1: wonderful, wonderful producers of South African wines are showing their their faces
9:51
Speaker 5: in, um- Right.
9:52
Speaker 7: And not just from Stellenbosch, from Swartland and other parts of- Yeah, yeah.
9:54
Speaker 7: other regions
9:55
Speaker 5: of- Really pushing...really, really spectacular- Yeah.
9:57
Speaker 5: You're right American wine.
9:57
Speaker 5: All right.
9:58
Speaker 7: so can we turn our conversation to your wonderful, beautiful book-
10:01
MIC3: Yes of
10:02
MIC2: Yes, of course.
10:03
MIC2: With Mr.
10:04
Speaker 6: that you are co-author of Yes, of course.
10:04
Speaker 7: So- With Mr.
10:04
Speaker 7: Miguel?
10:04
MIC3: Yeah.
10:05
Speaker 7: tell us about Yes Black Mixology.
10:06
MIC3: in fairness to the audience, I,
10:08
Speaker 7: took delivery on this book a couple of days before we came down here, Yeah and I just got to spend a couple of hours with it.
10:13
Speaker 7: It's a, it's a, it's a beautiful book- Yeah......and it's fun to read.
10:15
Speaker 7: So tell us about the, the book and the purpose of the book and what you did with
10:18
Speaker 6: it Yeah, it was born out of the
10:19
MIC2: a need to have more, Black voices
10:22
Speaker 6: celebrate Bla- Black voices within the industry.
10:24
Speaker 6: Uh, doing our
10:25
MIC2: our research, uh,
10:27
Speaker 6: know the first book written
10:28
MIC2: by an African Am- American,
10:29
MIC1: Am-
10:30
Speaker 6: No.
10:30
Speaker 6: Tom Bullock, The Art of the Cocktail.
10:30
Speaker 6: Yeah, Tom Bullock.
10:31
Speaker 6: 1917.
10:32
Speaker 6: Yeah.
10:32
MIC2: 1917.
10:33
MIC2: We had a-
10:33
Speaker 6: had a- Why
10:34
MIC1: had a
10:34
Speaker 6: had a Tom Bullock
10:35
Speaker 5: section at RM.
10:36
MIC2: a whole, like, section on our menu.
10:36
MIC2: Exactly.
10:36
MIC2: What happened in 1917?
10:38
MIC2: We
10:39
Speaker 6: seeing the, demise of the, uh, drinks industry, and of course, prohibition was starting.
10:43
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah.
10:44
MIC3: Yep.
10:45
MIC2: His book
10:46
Speaker 6: disappeared.
10:46
Speaker 6: Yeah.
10:46
Speaker 6: Became resurrected again during...The m- modern cocktail renaissance
10:50
MIC2: that We have now.
10:51
Speaker 6: And with that, the, next African American to write a cocktail book was Dr.
10:57
Speaker 6: Jessica B.
10:58
Speaker 6: Harris, who wrote The High Hat and the Hog that you see on Netflix.
11:01
Speaker 6: Right, right.
11:02
MIC2: If You haven't seen it, watch it.
11:04
Speaker 6: sensational.
11:04
Speaker 6: I haven't seen it,
11:05
Speaker 5: yet.
11:05
Speaker 5: Yeah,
11:05
Speaker 6: yeah.
11:06
Speaker 6: watch it.
11:06
Speaker 6: It's absolutely sensational.
11:07
Speaker 6: Perfect.
11:08
Speaker 6: But she wrote a book about rums.
11:09
Speaker 7: Uh-huh.
11:10
Speaker 6: Then there was a long gap before you saw anyone of color write a cocktail book.
11:17
Speaker 6: Next person was Douglasankara.
11:18
Speaker 6: Mm-hmm.
11:18
Speaker 6: A dear friend of mine who created The Poolstar Martini.
11:22
MIC2: Yeah,
11:22
Speaker 6: bless his soul.
11:23
Speaker 6: He's no longer with us, but he created the Poolstar Martini.
11:26
Speaker 6: And also that's one of the things about, um, the Jabu.
11:30
Speaker 6: We celebrate the Poolstar Martini- Yeah because it was
11:33
MIC2: inspired- Ah
11:34
Speaker 6: Uh-huh in Cape Town.
11:36
Speaker 7: I
11:36
Speaker 6: didn't know that.
11:36
Speaker 6: And Sir Douglas- I
11:37
MIC1: didn't know that either.
11:38
MIC2: Yeah, so Douglas took it back to London and he
11:41
Speaker 6: it in London.
11:42
Speaker 6: And of course
11:44
MIC1: So for, for
11:44
Speaker 5: it was done in South Africa- So for, for
11:45
MIC1: our people who are not necessarily familiar with the cocktail- tell
11:47
MIC2: the cocktail- Yeah, of course.
11:48
Speaker 6: or with craft bartending in particular.
11:50
Speaker 6: Of course.
11:50
Speaker 6: the Poolstar Martini,
11:51
MIC2: uh, is a beautiful, combination of vanilla vodka,
11:54
Speaker 6: passion fruit, real, like passion fruit puree, real, passion fruit as well.
11:58
Speaker 6: Yeah.
11:58
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah.
11:59
Speaker 6: of course, a little
12:00
MIC2: bit of vanilla sugar.
12:01
MIC2: If you don't have vanilla sugar.
12:02
Speaker 6: don't have vanilla sugar, obviously- you can
12:03
MIC2: vanilla.
12:04
MIC2: You can use syrup.
12:04
MIC2: Uh, Yeah, You can Or vanilla syrup.
12:06
MIC2: Shaken hard, strained
12:09
Speaker 6: into a nice martini, oversized martini glass with a side car of champagne and a half of,
12:16
MIC2: um, a passion fruit to decorate and garnish the
12:19
Speaker 7: and
12:20
Speaker 6: i-
12:20
MIC2: you- That is
12:21
Speaker 6: classic.
12:21
Speaker 6: No lime.
12:22
Speaker 6: No lime- I
12:24
Speaker 7: hear you.
12:24
Speaker 7: No lime.
12:24
Speaker 6: on a classic Martini.
12:24
Speaker 6: So let me ask you
12:25
MIC2: Star martini,
12:26
MIC3: let me ask you a question.
12:27
MIC3: So my
12:27
Speaker 7: of that is if, if If you can't get passion fruit, you I don't think you can substitute passion fruit liqueur.
12:34
Speaker 7: It doesn't work for me.
12:35
Speaker 7: You've
12:35
Speaker 6: tried that?
12:35
Speaker 6: No no, no.
12:36
Speaker 6: We
12:36
MIC2: we have No We have,
12:37
Speaker 6: um, but in that cocktail, it's passion fruit
12:40
Speaker 7: liqueur as well.
12:40
Speaker 7: Right.
12:40
Speaker 7: What I'm saying is you you, you need the passion fruit- Yeah...the fresh passion fruit.
12:43
Speaker 6: Oh
12:43
MIC2: Yeah.
12:43
MIC2: it really helps.
12:44
Speaker 6: It really, it really helps.
12:45
MIC2: It adds a whole,
12:46
Speaker 6: uh, unctuousness to the cocktail.
12:48
Speaker 6: Whole nother
12:48
Speaker 7: thing.
12:48
Speaker 7: I agree.
12:49
Speaker 6: Try spelling unctuousness after three-...of those Polestar Martinis.
12:54
Speaker 6: I,
12:54
Speaker 7: I, I wanna, I wanna, take the, uh,
12:56
MIC3: one of the
12:57
Speaker 7: I did read about in the book
12:59
MIC3: Mark and I discovered,
13:00
Speaker 7: uh, Tom Bullock, um, years ago.
13:02
Speaker 7: yeah, Like, when his book was first reprinted, how long ago?
13:04
Speaker 7: I don't know how
13:05
MIC3: long ago I don't know how long
13:06
Speaker 7: that was.
13:06
Speaker 5: you
13:06
MIC1: got Tom Bullock's
13:07
Speaker 5: from Park Hills Rumble Sales, one of the books you got at Park Hills Rumble Sale.
13:10
Speaker 5: Well- In fact, when you got check, your Gentleman's Companion and-
13:12
MIC1: and- all those
13:13
Speaker 5: early 2000s, late 1990s.
13:15
Speaker 7: But Well, I, I looked at the book, and it's an interesting book
13:18
MIC3: if, to look at.
13:19
MIC3: I didn't
13:19
Speaker 7: any of the history.
13:20
Speaker 7: I just had the book.
13:21
Speaker 7: Right.
13:21
Speaker 7: And I read the book, and it was
13:23
MIC3: very
13:23
Speaker 7: and I thought,"This can't be good." A lot of sloe gin and- Mm-hmm I'm like,
13:28
MIC3: and the, And there
13:28
Speaker 7: a lot of, um, like there is in the contemporary cocktail book, a
13:31
MIC3: book, a lot of the story
13:32
Speaker 7: the drink.
13:32
Speaker 7: And he served this to Jay Gatsby or whatever- Right you know, and then Richard.
13:35
Speaker 7: Yeah.
13:36
Speaker 7: It was just these cocktail recipes.
13:38
Speaker 7: And I don't know
13:39
MIC3: know what inspired us, but we were like, Let's give this a shot."
13:42
Speaker 7: That book, drink for drink, they're all-
13:44
MIC1: Man,
13:45
Speaker 5: that
13:45
MIC1: made that Cohasset punch.
13:46
Speaker 5: was
13:47
MIC2: Punch,
13:47
Speaker 5: just an
13:48
MIC1: an
13:49
Speaker 5: drink.
13:49
Speaker 5: yeah.
13:50
Speaker 7: We were so impressed with the- book, we had, we had a three-drink section of, of, uh, Tom Bullock cocktails on our list for a while, and one was the Horse Thief-
13:58
Speaker 5: Yep
13:59
Speaker 7: and the Blackthorn Cocktail, which is a sloe gin.
14:01
Speaker 7: Mm-hmm.
14:01
Speaker 7: That's what it was We put him on because I had, some family that made me sloe gin in Ireland, and I was like,"All right.
14:08
Speaker 7: I gotta use this." and it was, it was the Blackthorn Cocktail, and we were like,"Holy crap." And we went through the
14:13
MIC3: the rest
14:13
Speaker 7: book.
14:13
Speaker 7: It's fantastic.
14:14
Speaker 6: Yeah.
14:15
Speaker 6: And the thing is for someone like him as well to, uh, write a cocktail book, uh,
14:20
MIC2: prior to him uh, if you could read or write, in,
14:23
Speaker 6: Yeah America at that time, that could be a death sentence.
14:26
Speaker 7: Yeah.
14:26
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah.
14:26
Speaker 6: And,'cause people
14:27
MIC2: people always
14:28
Speaker 6: to me,"Oh, why didn't more people, uh, write cocktail books?" Because it could be a death sentence.
14:32
Speaker 6: 'Cause they weren't
14:33
Speaker 5: allowed
14:33
Speaker 6: to.
14:33
Speaker 6: So a
14:34
MIC2: a lot of the recipes
14:35
Speaker 6: passed down generationally from bartender to bartender.
14:38
Speaker 6: And then if you look at, people actually serving cocktails in the
14:43
MIC2: the houses,
14:43
Speaker 6: big houses- Absolutely the plantation houses, they were slaves.
14:46
Speaker 6: They were Black people- Yeah making those
14:48
MIC2: cocktails.
14:48
Speaker 6: And those cocktails were all handed down So when we look at things like I I, I personally think, and I one day will find the
14:57
MIC2: the research to back that up,
14:59
Speaker 6: things like
14:59
MIC2: like the Old
15:00
Speaker 6: the juleps and stuff, I think they were cocktails that were made In the
15:04
MIC2: the houses, big houses, back
15:06
Speaker 6: day Well- became popular and then were used in bars
15:08
Speaker 7: But if you look
15:09
MIC3: He really was a, uh, war emperor.
15:09
MIC3: He'll take you- But I, if you look at,
15:10
Speaker 7: the life of Tumbler- Yeah......he was he was
15:12
MIC3: was an important bartender at the
15:13
Speaker 7: right?
15:14
Speaker 7: Yes, he was.
15:14
Speaker 7: People,
15:14
MIC3: He was...people
15:15
Speaker 7: that he...
15:15
Speaker 7: And he was
15:16
MIC3: And he was behind a bar.
15:16
MIC3: He
15:17
Speaker 7: in a household.
15:17
Speaker 7: Yeah.
15:17
Speaker 7: He was a great bartender.
15:18
Speaker 6: Yeah, Yeah,
15:19
MIC2: household.
15:19
MIC2: He was a great bartender Yeah, He was uh, He was also a, Pullman, and,
15:22
Speaker 6: Pullman, were, basically were,
15:23
MIC2: all the, Black men and women that worked
15:26
Speaker 6: a lot of the railways all across the country.
15:28
Speaker 6: Yep.
15:28
Speaker 6: And
15:28
MIC2: they're the
15:28
Speaker 6: the ones that transferred the information
15:31
MIC2: of cocktail recipes and stuff all around the
15:34
Speaker 6: for so many people to try.
15:35
Speaker 7: Well, and less- Um,
15:36
Speaker 6: you know,
15:36
Speaker 7: so- Less people think it's just a book about ancient history.
15:38
Speaker 7: You guys talk about a lot of the c- uh, contemporary Black, uh- Yeah people in the mixology world.
15:43
Speaker 7: I read, uh, we have Frankie Marshall's a friend of ours- Sure so we read Frankie Marshall's piece in there.
15:47
Speaker 6: Yeah.
15:48
Speaker 7: But
15:48
MIC3: But it was, it was fascinating, uh, that it,
15:50
Speaker 7: takes you through the history and it's about Black mixologists today, right?
15:53
Speaker 7: E-
15:53
Speaker 6: exactly.
15:54
Speaker 6: And it's, it's knitting what happened in yesteryear to what's happening now.
15:58
Speaker 6: from Cater Alexander to
16:00
MIC2: to, to
16:01
Speaker 6: Todd Bullock to,
16:02
MIC2: uh, our modern-day, mixologists like Tiffany Barrier obviously is
16:06
Speaker 6: there.
16:06
Speaker 6: Yeah.
16:06
Speaker 6: And it's really interesting, uh, when, uh, Tiffany and I were talking about, her cocktail book, because we
16:11
MIC2: we also have
16:12
Speaker 6: the red cocktail in the book- Right which is a celebration cocktail-
16:15
Speaker 5: Right
16:15
Speaker 6: uh, for, uh, the
16:16
MIC2: the emancipation of slavery.
16:18
MIC2: Tiffany I knew
16:19
Speaker 6: she was gonna write her cocktail book,
16:22
MIC2: literally after ours came out, and I said,"That
16:24
Speaker 6: is gonna win a
16:25
MIC2: win a
16:26
Speaker 6: award one day." I just knew it.
16:28
MIC2: Um, ours
16:29
Speaker 6: also nominated.
16:30
Speaker 6: I think we made the, uh, top four, but we didn't win that year, but that's absolutely fine.
16:34
Speaker 6: There's
16:34
MIC3: still time.
16:35
MIC2: But yeah, there's still time.
16:37
MIC2: But I really think that this
16:39
Speaker 6: that this cocktail helps to, uh, sorry, the cocktail book really helps to showcase the Black story and to amplify Black stories-
16:48
Speaker 7: And it's a, and it's- which
16:49
MIC2: is important I think,
16:49
Speaker 6: important and
16:50
Speaker 7: it's
16:50
Speaker 6: a super
16:50
Speaker 7: well-written It is very important...and fun book to read as well.
16:52
Speaker 7: so-
16:52
Speaker 6: And it's easy, it's accessible.
16:53
Speaker 6: Yeah.
16:54
Speaker 6: Uh, w- what also one has to remember is that those
16:57
MIC2: cocktails were made during the time of a
17:01
Speaker 6: Pandemic, which we won't speak
17:02
MIC2: about.
17:03
MIC2: Uh, but all of the cocktails
17:05
Speaker 6: I made, I wanted to
17:06
MIC2: ensure that
17:07
Speaker 6: could click on Amazon or anything And Get the ingredients be able to order the
17:11
MIC2: the ingredients
17:12
Speaker 6: your door.
17:12
Speaker 6: I love that.
17:13
Speaker 6: 'Cause at the time we didn't
17:14
MIC2: know how
17:14
Speaker 6: we were gonna be cooped up for.
17:15
Speaker 6: Mm-hmm.
17:15
Speaker 5: a long time was
17:17
Speaker 6: the answer.
17:17
Speaker 6: Yes.
17:17
Speaker 6: A
17:17
Speaker 5: long time A long time was the
17:18
Speaker 6: answer.
17:18
MIC2: Uh, yeah.
17:19
MIC2: So watch
17:20
Speaker 6: space.
17:21
Speaker 6: We're working on other books at the moment.
17:23
Speaker 6: Oh, great.
17:23
Speaker 6: so hopefully, um, you'll see another, uh, book from us one day.
17:27
Speaker 7: All right.
17:27
MIC3: All right.
17:27
MIC3: Well, now we have to
17:28
Speaker 7: the conversation.
17:29
MIC3: We are here at the Martini
17:30
Speaker 7: Oh, we are...in Chicago.
17:31
Speaker 6: Yes.
17:32
Speaker 7: And we wanna ask
17:33
MIC3: you, uh, what you're doing here, why you think the
17:35
Speaker 7: is important, and then we have Mark has a question about the martini and you.
17:38
Speaker 6: Yeah.
17:39
Speaker 6: Martini's
17:39
MIC2: the martini's an
17:40
Speaker 6: cocktail.
17:41
Speaker 6: It's a it's a cocktail that's the benchmark of the golden era, of the previous golden era of the cocktail, and it's now,
17:48
MIC2: um, in this golden
17:50
Speaker 6: of cocktail culture again, And it's bringing everyone back-
17:52
Speaker 5: Yeah
17:53
Speaker 6: to drinking real, cocktails again.
17:55
Speaker 6: Now, with,
17:57
MIC2: the expo, it's great being here.
17:58
Speaker 6: been on a panel, um, with some
18:00
MIC2: illustrious, folks,
18:02
Speaker 6: uh, Francois Montier, Simon Fuller, and obviously Toby Cheyne who created the Cosmopolitan.
18:08
MIC2: I've had some amazing
18:09
Speaker 6: with cosmos.
18:10
Speaker 6: We all have.
18:11
MIC2: And, uh, with that, I was
18:14
Speaker 6: about the Pornstar martini.
18:15
Speaker 8: Yeah.
18:16
Speaker 6: Douglas Sanchez cocktail.
18:16
MIC2: cocktail.
18:17
MIC2: He was my best
18:18
Speaker 6: I grew up with him.
18:18
Speaker 6: Great.
18:19
Speaker 6: Uh, we went to college together.
18:21
Speaker 6: Uh, he was
18:21
MIC2: he was an absolute idiot,
18:22
Speaker 6: he is my idiot.
18:23
Speaker 6: I love him to bits.
18:24
Speaker 6: All of us loved him.
18:25
Speaker 6: Um, and he was quite a character, larger than life,
18:29
MIC2: And he created a cocktail which was
18:31
Speaker 6: foundationally, a cocktail that has just, so many people to drinking cocktails, which
18:36
Speaker 7: is amazing.
18:37
Speaker 7: Well, I think, And, I think we wanna point out that one of the things that's really
18:40
MIC3: great about this,
18:41
Speaker 7: is the...
18:42
Speaker 7: If there
18:42
MIC3: there was a golden age of the cocktail,
18:44
Speaker 7: the platinum age of cocktail.
18:45
Speaker 7: Oh.
18:45
Speaker 7: more cocktails being made around the world today than ever.
18:47
Speaker 7: Yeah.
18:47
Speaker 7: But back then you would
18:48
MIC3: would have, oh, there's the new cocktail out,
18:50
Speaker 7: even in the, in the dark times, the new cocktail was the Fuzzy
18:53
MIC3: Wuzzy Woo
18:54
Speaker 7: or the Monkey Racer, right?
18:55
Speaker 7: But you could have a cocktail that then entered the canon because that there weren't that many people being that creative.
19:02
Speaker 7: Um, and today- It's hard to get a cocktail that enters the canon, by which I mean a cocktail that you can walk into
19:10
MIC3: any bar that knows
19:10
Speaker 7: doing- Sure and say,"I'll have a mind Eraser," or,"I'll have a, slow comfortable screw Up
19:15
MIC3: Against The Wall" or whatever that you used to be able to do then.
19:18
MIC3: or the real...
19:18
MIC3: Like,"I'll have a
19:19
Speaker 7: I'll have a Manhattan," I'll have an old fashioned." People know what you're talking about.
19:22
Speaker 7: the Port Star Martini
19:24
MIC3: is in the
19:25
Speaker 5: Oh, absolutely.
19:26
Speaker 7: Yes.
19:26
Speaker 7: That's a very rare- Absolutely position to be in for a cocktail.
19:26
Speaker 7: And it's even bigger, you know, traveling to Europe, even bigger in Europe Oh, it's huge than it is in the United States.
19:26
Speaker 7: Yeah, yeah.
19:26
Speaker 7: It's huge.
19:26
Speaker 7: I mean, it's, it is.
19:26
Speaker 7: it just- Yeah, it's everywhere
19:27
Speaker 5: now.
19:27
Speaker 5: and
19:27
MIC3: to be able to get a drink in the canon.
19:29
MIC1: Russian people know what you're talking about.
19:29
MIC1: The porn star martini is in the canon- Oh, absolutely and it is very rare- Absolutely to get it and it's even bigger, uh, you know, traveling to Europe, it's even bigger in Europe than it is in the United States.
19:32
MIC1: Yeah, yeah.
19:32
MIC1: I mean, it's, it is.
19:33
Speaker 7: and is it huge in America now as well?
19:35
Speaker 5: Yes.
19:35
MIC1: It's And is it huge in Africa as well?
19:35
MIC1: It's the dominant...
19:36
MIC1: I mean, for, for me,
19:37
Speaker 5: the last time I went to London, it was
19:38
MIC1: was the dominant cocktail.
19:39
Speaker 6: was-
19:39
Speaker 5: it was the dominant drink all over yeah...from you know, top
19:42
MIC1: top spot to bottom spot,
19:43
Speaker 5: somebody had their version.
19:44
Speaker 6: Yeah,
19:44
MIC2: and we celebrate it
19:45
Speaker 6: well at Java Cocktail Experience because the inspiration for the cocktail came from Cape Town, and
19:50
MIC2: Cape
19:50
Speaker 6: it's an inspired African cocktail.
19:53
Speaker 6: love it.
19:54
Speaker 6: So Nice we always want to share that story- Right and keep that story alive.
19:57
Speaker 7: Well, you've just shared it with, you know, thousands of people here.
20:00
Speaker 6: I love that, thousands of people.
20:01
Speaker 6: Yeah.
20:01
MIC3: Yeah, Remember that, everyone
20:03
Speaker 5: our, our last question for everybody is-
20:06
Speaker 6: Oh, is what's my Instagram handle?
20:06
Speaker 6: Uh, cocktailcaller.
20:07
Speaker 6: That's
20:08
MIC2: Oh, right.
20:08
MIC2: Okay.
20:08
MIC2: Sorry.
20:08
MIC2: So our last question for everybody is-
20:11
Speaker 6: it.
20:11
Speaker 6: I need more followers, please.
20:11
Speaker 6: Give me your followers.
20:11
Speaker 6: I love it.
20:12
MIC1: No, that's our second
20:13
Speaker 5: question.
20:13
Speaker 6: Oh, right.
20:13
Speaker 6: okay.
20:14
Speaker 6: Sorry.
20:15
Speaker 5: So our
20:15
MIC1: our last
20:16
Speaker 5: for everybody is, what was the moment
20:19
MIC1: that, you knew
20:20
Speaker 5: the martini was this very important cocktail and it was, it was- central.
20:26
Speaker 5: We'll go with a classic like gin or vodka martini.
20:28
Speaker 6: Sure, sure, sure.
20:29
Speaker 6: ooh, when did I know?
20:30
Speaker 6: I I, knew
20:32
MIC2: that the
20:33
Speaker 6: was a pivotal cocktail in our culture just because of I would say the reverence we as bartender put towards crafting- Yeah that beautiful, spirit dilution,
20:47
MIC1: dilution, vermouth, bitters
20:49
Speaker 6: vermouth,
20:49
MIC2: bitters
20:50
Speaker 6: bitters experience.
20:53
Speaker 6: To me, a martini invokes, a timelessness.
20:57
Speaker 6: You sit with a martini, it's nine times out of ten it's with food.
21:03
Speaker 6: You have sometimes snacks, uh, with it, Yeah.
21:06
Speaker 6: and it's also-- it's a bit of a truth serum because Mm it ma- makes you wax
21:11
MIC2: lyrical.
21:12
MIC2: It
21:12
Speaker 6: opens you up, and I think it's a great conversation, kind of vehicle for-
21:18
Speaker 5: Did you
21:19
MIC1: you have a moment when you were like,"This, this
21:20
Speaker 5: it.
21:20
Speaker 5: this is
21:21
MIC2: you have a moment when you were like,"This, this is a, this is a-" Yeah.
21:22
MIC2: This is when I was, Uh, yeah, I was working,
21:24
Speaker 6: in London, actually, It was early.
21:26
Speaker 6: I was working at Beachbank in Babylon, and I'd made, um, uh,
21:28
MIC2: and I'd made, um, Uh, martinis for...
21:32
MIC2: Ozwald Boateng
21:33
Speaker 6: in.
21:34
Speaker 6: He used to drink martinis with,
21:36
MIC2: a friend of his, uh,
21:38
Speaker 6: singer Seal.
21:39
Speaker 6: Right.
21:39
Speaker 6: And I remember both of them would come in, order gin martinis and sit, stand at the bar, sip them, and they'd always have a great time.
21:50
Speaker 6: And yeah,
21:51
MIC2: it was definitely a
21:52
Speaker 6: for me like that thinking, Yeah, this, this cocktail's here It's to stay."
21:57
Speaker 7: So I
21:58
MIC3: I have That was
21:59
Speaker 7: to be our last question, but
21:59
MIC3: but I have a I have,
22:00
Speaker 7: have a I
22:00
MIC3: I have a, I have another one that you brought me to that Jen may edit out.
22:04
MIC3: But I'm a
22:06
Speaker 7: martini guy.
22:07
Speaker 7: Sure.
22:07
Speaker 7: If you want a vodka martini, that's fine.
22:09
Speaker 7: But to me the martini is a gin drink.
22:12
Speaker 7: What do you think?
22:13
MIC3: do you think about That
22:15
Speaker 6: So for someone like myself, I, I
22:18
MIC2: okay, I
22:19
Speaker 6: and appreciate gin martini.
22:23
MIC3: but
22:25
MIC2: vodka-tini- Yeah is
22:29
Speaker 6: martinis that
22:30
MIC2: can allow people to
22:31
Speaker 6: appreciate the category.
22:31
Speaker 7: Which are you more?
22:31
MIC3: more
22:32
MIC2: the
22:32
MIC3: to order?
22:33
Speaker 6: Uh, it really depends on the
22:34
MIC2: a moment and a time.
24:01
MIC2: If I'm
24:02
Speaker 6: with, uh, friends and we're having seafood and all that kind of stuff, like oysters and so on, definitely gin martinis.
24:10
Speaker 6: Okay.
24:10
Speaker 6: If I'm doing cured meats, I really like,
24:13
MIC2: my
24:13
Speaker 6: my
24:13
Speaker 5: vodka-tinis.
24:14
Speaker 5: What a
24:14
MIC1: a wonderful answer that
24:15
Speaker 5: That's amazing.
24:17
Speaker 7: Colin.
24:17
Speaker 7: it's been great to
24:18
MIC3: to have
24:18
Speaker 7: Thanks for coming to The Restorator.
24:19
Speaker 7: Well done.
24:19
Speaker 7: guys.
24:19
Speaker 7: We're gonna head
24:20
MIC3: back into the Martini Expo and
24:21
Speaker 7: our next
24:22
MIC2: Oh, come on.
24:22
MIC2: Let's go and get involved, lads.
24:24
MIC2: Let's get involved.
24:25
MIC2: All
24:25
MIC3: am.
24:26
Speaker 6: am.
24:26
Speaker 6: And don't forget, come tell Colin.
24:27
Speaker 6: Thank you.
24:27
Speaker 6: Thanks.
24:27
Speaker 6: Thanks, Colin.
24:27
Speaker 6: Love and appreciate you, all.
24:27
Speaker 6: Thank
24:27
MIC3: Colin.
24:29
Speaker 6: you.
24:29
MIC2: Thank you.
24:29
MIC2: Love and appreciate you
24:31
Speaker 7: Colin.
24:31
Speaker 7: all.
24:32
FM Francis REAL: Okay, so we have pulled someone else off the floor of the
24:35
Francis: Martini Expo
24:36
Speaker: here in Chicago.
24:37
Speaker: Um, all the way from Madrid, we have François Monti here joining us.
24:41
Speaker: He is
24:42
FM Francis REAL: a
24:42
Speaker: author and writer.
24:43
Speaker: You can see his work in Vine Magazine,
24:45
FM Francis REAL: you can see, uh, him in Punch.
24:47
FM Francis REAL: your blog is Bottoms Up.
24:49
FM Francis REAL: You are the author of
24:51
Speaker: Cocktails to Try Before You Die.
24:52
Speaker: Best
24:53
FM Francis REAL: title ever.
24:54
FM Francis REAL: and we're thrilled to have you, uh, all the way
24:56
Speaker: Madrid here in Chicago,
24:58
Speaker 2: François, welcome to the
24:59
FM Mark REAL: show
24:59
FM Francois REAL: Yeah, I'm very excited to be here Delighted
25:01
FM Francis REAL: Well, I wanna talk to you about your work and your writing
25:04
Speaker: and, um, and specifically
25:06
FM Francis REAL: your work on, vermouths- and other aromatized wines.
25:09
FM Francis REAL: Um, but you came a long way
25:11
Speaker: to Martini Expo here in the
25:13
FM Francis REAL: middle of America.
25:14
FM Francis REAL: Why is it so important that
25:15
Speaker: it's worth it for you to fly across an
25:17
FM Francis REAL: ocean and half a continent to be here?
25:19
Speaker 4: because first, martini drink ever Invented, with
25:23
FM Francois REAL: the daiquiri, but, you know, let's not get into those debates.
25:26
FM Francois REAL: so obviously whatever, thing, you know, going around,
25:29
Speaker 4: exhibition or, or, or show, whatever, Uh, is something I'm, I'm very
25:34
FM Francois REAL: interested in.
25:35
FM Francois REAL: Also, Robert Simonson being behind it, as a writer,
25:38
Speaker 4: I know
25:39
FM Francois REAL: how difficult, uh, writing, Uh, and living out of your writing is, is getting, today.
25:45
FM Francois REAL: so any way I can support, an event a fellow writer
25:49
Speaker 4: puts together, it, it's great.
25:50
Speaker 4: So it's,
25:51
FM Francois REAL: uh,
25:51
Speaker 4: really delighted that Robert wants
25:53
FM Francois REAL: me, here and, Uh, also it,
25:55
Speaker 4: it get, it gets me to talk about vermouth, which is
25:57
FM Francois REAL: something I like, uh, not as much as martini, but almost.
26:00
FM Francis REAL: Uh-huh.
26:00
FM Francis REAL: so
26:00
Speaker 2: I will say, though, as a as a Belgian of, of origin,
26:04
FM Mark REAL: right?
26:05
FM Mark REAL: You know, I, I fell in love with Belgian beer.
26:07
FM Mark REAL: I,
26:07
Speaker 2: I wasn't thinking about vermouth when I was drinking Belgian beer.
26:10
Speaker 2: mean, you have such a rich culture of Yeah a beer culture for your, for your country.
26:15
Speaker 2: Uh, how do you get into vermouth?
26:17
Speaker 2: How does
26:19
Speaker 4: So
26:19
FM Francois REAL: you're right.
26:19
FM Francois REAL: I've always been-- I, I'm Belgian, and I've always been a big beer drinker.
26:23
Speaker 4: And actually it's, it, it's
26:25
FM Francois REAL: funny because, uh, a lot of the, Belgian beers are known for their strengths, right?
26:28
FM Francois REAL: Mm-hmm.
26:29
FM Francois REAL: Uh, what people don't know
26:30
Speaker 4: is that strengths went
26:33
FM Francois REAL: up or, the,
26:34
Speaker 4: market volume for high-strength Belgian beer went
26:37
FM Francois REAL: up because Belgian had its own version of prohibition in
26:41
Speaker 4: Exactly
26:41
FM Francois REAL: exactly the same as the US.
26:43
Speaker 4: the difference is that, know,
26:45
FM Francois REAL: what they wanted is people to stop drinking
26:47
Speaker 4: spirits.
26:48
FM Francois REAL: and so if,
26:49
Speaker 4: for example, if you wanted to
26:50
FM Francois REAL: buy genever, which was, uh, like, our
26:52
Speaker 4: spirit, Yeah...a version of...uh, you had to buy
26:55
FM Francois REAL: two bottles at a time.
26:56
FM Francois REAL: That the idea was the poor will not
26:59
Speaker 4: drink as much the money to buy two bottles at a time.
27:02
Speaker 4: and that's how,
27:03
FM Francois REAL: brewers started to think,"Well, maybe strong beer
27:05
Speaker 4: would be
27:06
FM Francois REAL: very welcome in this, uh, marketplace." I realize I'm not answering your question, but, you know,
27:12
FM Mark REAL: You'll
27:12
FM Francis REAL: We'll--
27:13
Speaker 4: get there eventually.
27:13
Speaker 4: That's okay.
27:13
Speaker 4: We are,
27:13
FM Francois REAL: Yeah, We'll
27:14
Speaker 4: there.
27:14
Speaker 4: Yeah.
27:15
FM Francois REAL: there no I'm, I moved to Spain my wife
27:17
Speaker 4: Spanish, And uh, we settled in in Madrid, and Madrid has got such a
27:22
FM Francois REAL: vibrant vermouth culture.
27:24
FM Francois REAL: Uh, so that's part
27:25
Speaker 4: part of the reason.
27:25
Speaker 4: The other part, the other
27:26
FM Francois REAL: part,
27:26
Speaker 4: reason is I'm really into cocktails, especially cocktails, and way you can
27:32
FM Francois REAL: understand classic
27:33
Speaker 4: without vermouth.
27:35
FM Francois REAL: So
27:35
Speaker 4: in Spain and being
27:36
FM Francois REAL: in love with the cocktails made it sort of natural I would
27:38
Speaker 4: move into that
27:39
Speaker 2: So I have a large
27:41
FM Mark REAL: Belgian beer selection, which is one of the reasons I started with that
27:44
Speaker 2: question.
27:45
Speaker 2: Yeah.
27:45
Speaker 2: and one of the things we
27:46
FM Mark REAL: learned early on is how well those beers age, that they're bottle conditioned.
27:50
FM Mark REAL: And so we actually
27:51
Speaker 2: one of the
27:52
FM Mark REAL: largest,
27:53
Speaker 2: uh, aged cellars of
27:54
FM Mark REAL: Belgian beers, uh, going back into the'80s
27:57
FM Francois REAL: So I need to go to, uh, I need to
27:59
Speaker 4: go to your restaurants and
28:00
FM Francois REAL: have
28:00
Speaker 4: Orval.
28:01
Speaker 2: Yes.
28:01
Speaker 2: They're my favorite.
28:01
Speaker 2: Yes, we have some, some really
28:04
FM Mark REAL: older Belgian beers in, in our
28:06
Speaker 2: right now, and, uh, uh, it's a
28:08
FM Mark REAL: lovely
28:08
Speaker 2: Anyway, back to the vermouth.
28:09
Speaker 2: Wait, wait.
28:10
Speaker 2: No, no, no.
28:10
Speaker 2: Yeah.
28:10
Speaker: I have a thing on Belgian beer from
28:11
FM Francis REAL: just a moment.
28:12
FM Francis REAL: There's a funny
28:12
Speaker: that comes forget.
28:14
Speaker: It, uh, it's just popped into mind right we used to have a bigger Belgian a bigger aged beer cellar than we COVID, but it was always really big.
28:24
Speaker: And, um,
28:25
FM Francis REAL: you know, Mark has always loved Belgian.
28:27
Speaker: You know, Mark's father's and Mark his father on business trips
28:30
FM Francis REAL: to Belgium, and Mark speaks French, and, and, uh,
28:33
Speaker: I don't speak
28:34
FM Francis REAL: French.
28:34
FM Francis REAL: I speak Spanish.
28:35
Speaker: and,
28:36
Speaker 4: um- Perfect
28:36
Speaker: and we
28:36
FM Francis REAL: can both
28:37
Speaker: with you.
28:38
Speaker: Yeah.
28:38
Speaker: yeah.
28:38
Speaker: So
28:39
FM Francis REAL: um, but not understand each other while we're doing
28:41
Speaker: yeah, So Which is
28:42
Speaker 4: also very interesting.
28:43
Speaker: Yeah, Yeah.
28:44
Speaker: I
28:44
FM Francis REAL: could tell- Tell me I can tell all sorts of secrets.
28:46
FM Francis REAL: so uh,
28:47
Speaker: I, Ask away...we're in the restaurant, we're in the restaurant one and
28:50
FM Francis REAL: uh, I- walk outside, and there's this, this, this kinda heavyset guy, uh, in a
28:55
Speaker: tuxedo looking at the menu And, uh, more heavy-set guys in tuxedos looking at the menu.
29:02
Speaker: and, I walk outside and I, uh, I said hello, and they didn't speak very much English at
29:06
FM Francis REAL: all.
29:06
FM Francis REAL: And I realized
29:08
Speaker: that the orchestra of the city of Bruges was
29:10
FM Francis REAL: playing at the theater next door that night.
29:13
FM Francis REAL: And they're
29:13
Speaker: of into it, so I'm like,
29:14
FM Francis REAL: Wait right here.
29:15
FM Francis REAL: Don't go anywhere." And I went, I
29:16
Speaker: grabbed Mark,
29:17
FM Francis REAL: and it all worked like a charm because in six minutes Mark is hugging these five Belgian guys outside the restaurant.
29:23
FM Francis REAL: They all came into dinner after the show, had big steaks.
29:25
FM Francis REAL: Good job, Mark.
29:26
FM Francis REAL: I
29:26
FM Mark REAL: So
29:27
Speaker 2: what you
29:27
FM Mark REAL: don't know about that
29:29
Speaker 2: evening-
29:30
Speaker: Because you were speaking in French, and
29:31
Speaker 2: so they knew what you were saying is I had a revelation.
29:32
Speaker: Oh, what's that?
29:33
Speaker 2: So
29:34
FM Mark REAL: when I lived in France,
29:36
Speaker 2: people would always ask me
29:37
FM Mark REAL: if I was Belgian.
29:38
Speaker 2: And I just presumed there was accent- Yeah or something that I was, some way I was speaking that was making perceive me.
29:46
Speaker 2: as Belgian.
29:47
Speaker 2: But when I saw all those fat Belgians from- the chamber orchestra, I thought
29:53
FM Mark REAL: Belgians are fatter
29:54
Speaker 2: than French- That's,
29:56
FM Mark REAL: That's, that's-- why they think I'm
29:57
Speaker 2: Belgian.
29:58
Speaker 2: I
29:58
Speaker 4: mean, look at
29:58
FM Francois REAL: me.
29:58
FM Francois REAL: I'm fine.
29:59
Speaker 4: svelte.
29:59
Speaker 2: I look great.
30:00
Speaker 2: You're svelte.
30:01
Speaker 2: You
30:01
FM Mark REAL: You
30:04
Speaker 4: might be to say the French people will think you're too, too
30:07
FM Francois REAL: too nice
30:07
Speaker 4: be Belgian.
30:08
Speaker: Yes.
30:08
Speaker: that could be.
30:09
Speaker: Very much so.
30:09
Speaker: That's...
30:09
FM Mark REAL: that's-- I like your answer the
30:11
Speaker: best.
30:12
FM Francis REAL: the best.
30:12
FM Francis REAL: All right.
30:12
FM Francis REAL: So, so here's another
30:14
Speaker: that's So
30:15
FM Francis REAL: you talked about Spanish vermouth culture.
30:16
FM Francis REAL: I
30:17
Speaker: a lot of time in Madrid.
30:17
Speaker: I love Madrid.
30:18
Speaker: in Spain and in Italy,
30:20
FM Francis REAL: there is a
30:20
Speaker: vermouth culture that you spoke of,
30:22
FM Francis REAL: and I think it's very interesting because in America,
30:24
Speaker: the only reason most who aren't in an ethnic neighborhood is the vermouth
30:28
FM Francis REAL: was the ingredient that used to be in martinis
30:30
Speaker: until people stopped putting it in martinis.
30:32
Speaker: and only pretended to put it in martinis.
30:34
Speaker: Um, but the
30:35
FM Francis REAL: vermouth culture
30:36
Speaker: of sitting around and
30:37
FM Francis REAL: having a vermouth on the rocks in the afternoon in
30:39
Speaker: sidewalk café, that's a, that's a real thing that Mark does that all the time.
30:43
FM Francis REAL: and I, I love it
30:44
Speaker 2: "So my drink to drink when I'm not drinking
30:47
FM Mark REAL: is a vermouth on the
30:48
Speaker 2: a a little Carpano Bianco with a little twist of orange or, or some delicious vermouth"
30:54
FM Mark REAL: with one large cube
30:55
Speaker 2: in it and sip on it, and everybody can drink to their heart's content.
30:59
Speaker 2: But I have 18 hours of work to do,
31:01
Speaker 4: I can have a, a, a whole sombrer.
31:02
Speaker 4: Yeah, there's something quite civilized about it right?
31:05
Speaker 4: Mm-hmm.
31:05
Speaker 4: I mean,
31:06
FM Francois REAL: thing is.
31:07
Speaker 4: it's complex.
31:08
Speaker: Mm-hmm.
31:08
Speaker 4: it's got loads of aromatics.
31:10
Speaker 4: it's that
31:11
FM Francois REAL: texture, So it's very satisfying, but you don't feel like
31:15
Speaker 4: you have to rush it.
31:16
Speaker 4: So we get
31:17
Speaker: you
31:17
FM Francis REAL: to Madrid, and you are, you're
31:18
Speaker: participating in vermouth culture.
31:20
Speaker: And how does that lead you to the martini And to, and inform your writing and-
31:24
FM Francois REAL: Oh, it's actually the, the, the the other way around.
31:26
FM Francois REAL: I started
31:27
Speaker 4: with
31:28
Speaker: And then, you
31:30
Speaker 4: point it was-- like
31:31
FM Francois REAL: someone asked me, are.
31:32
FM Francois REAL: you
31:32
Speaker 4: in vermouth?""Yes, of course, yes.
31:34
Speaker 4: ingredient in, some of my favorite you
31:37
FM Francois REAL: want
31:38
Speaker 4: to write a book on vermouth?"
31:39
FM Francois REAL: Like,"How are
31:40
Speaker 4: you paying?" They say,"Oh, it's
31:42
FM Francois REAL: not enough."
31:43
Speaker: Of course.
31:43
Speaker: "But- They never are
31:44
Speaker 4: but I'll do
31:44
FM Francois REAL: Oh,
31:45
Speaker 4: Yeah.
31:45
FM Francois REAL: never are.
31:45
FM Francois REAL: "But I'll do it." Yeah.
31:46
FM Francois REAL: Yeah, And, that, and then, then that's how.
31:47
Speaker 4: I
31:47
FM Francois REAL: got into cocktail in a weird sort of roundabout way.
31:51
Speaker 4: Again,
31:52
FM Francois REAL: you know, as Mark
31:53
Speaker 4: was saying, of beer.
31:57
FM Francois REAL: but I f- for a while, I worked for an American, uh, company for a couple of years when I was
32:01
Speaker 4: much younger,
32:02
FM Francois REAL: and I was sent
32:03
Speaker 4: work
32:04
FM Francois REAL: in India of all
32:05
Speaker 4: Okay
32:06
FM Francois REAL: for two months, very short,
32:08
Speaker 4: uh, assignment.
32:09
Speaker 4: And
32:10
FM Francois REAL: we were working the Eu- European hours, which, which
32:13
Speaker 4: means we were leaving the office midnight.
32:16
Speaker 4: and
32:16
FM Francois REAL: there was nothing to do at midnight in the city where I was, so the
32:19
Speaker 4: thing I could
32:19
FM Francois REAL: do was call the hotel
32:21
Speaker 4: tell them,"In 10 minutes, I'm there.
32:24
Speaker 4: cosmo piston on the-" I
32:25
Speaker: love it
32:25
FM Francois REAL: Cause it was the only cocktail I recognized the ingredients of, and th- th- they were probably not making it very well.
32:32
FM Francois REAL: but, you know, I had my cosmo every night, and then when I came back to Belgium, six months later, I moved to Spain, And it was like I took a bit of time off
32:40
Speaker 4: deciding what I wanted
32:41
FM Francois REAL: to do next.
32:42
FM Francois REAL: And while I was thinking about what I wanted to do next, I decided,"Well, you know what?
32:46
FM Francois REAL: I,
32:46
Speaker 4: I
32:46
FM Francois REAL: quite enjoyed drinking those cocktails
32:48
Speaker 4: India.
32:49
Speaker 4: Who makes
32:49
FM Francois REAL: cocktails here in Madrid?" And so that's how it started.
32:52
FM Francis REAL: I love that.
32:53
FM Francis REAL: And who were the,
32:53
Speaker: was the state of the cocktail world in
32:55
FM Francis REAL: Madrid at that time?
32:56
FM Francois REAL: So, it was right when I
32:58
Speaker 4: into, uh, I
33:00
FM Francois REAL: in 2009.
33:01
FM Francois REAL: we were like, really on the, cusp of,
33:04
Speaker 4: of, a new golden era.
33:05
Speaker 4: There
33:05
FM Francois REAL: was a couple of bars doing really s- really nice create cocktails.
33:10
Speaker 4: They were bringing some of those classics
33:13
FM Francois REAL: from the US and the rest of Europe.
33:15
FM Francois REAL: There were, uh, like, a lot of
33:17
Speaker 4: back in the days looking
33:18
FM Francois REAL: at, you know, lost
33:21
Speaker 4: Sure,
33:22
FM Francis REAL: sure from
33:22
FM Francois REAL: recipe.
33:23
FM Francois REAL: But also they were starting to create their own, uh, language around, around cocktails.
33:28
FM Francois REAL: Um, within two years, those bars closed down.
33:32
FM Francois REAL: Everything went down.
33:34
FM Francois REAL: So the only thing we, we really had were, were, a couple of the classic bars,
33:37
Speaker 4: the, the, interesting
33:38
FM Francois REAL: thing about Madrid and cocktails is although it's not on
33:41
Speaker 4: list of people as being a cocktail Right
33:44
FM Francois REAL: uh, we have
33:45
Speaker 4: two bars, like
33:46
FM Francois REAL: two 100% cocktail bars that are, a century old.
33:50
FM Francois REAL: Uh,
33:50
Speaker 4: so the city's
33:51
FM Francois REAL: always been a very very big on dry martinis,
33:54
FM Francis REAL: Uh-huh
33:55
FM Francois REAL: Uh, and gin fizzes
33:56
FM Francis REAL: fizzes.
33:56
FM Francis REAL: What,
33:57
Speaker 4: are, those two cocktail bars?
33:59
Speaker 4: So, uh, uh, Chicote
34:01
FM Francois REAL: is actually not 100 yet, it's 95.
34:04
Speaker 4: 95.
34:04
FM Francois REAL: Uh, Chicote
34:06
Speaker 4: and then Cock, which is, 105.
34:09
FM Francois REAL: C-O-Q?
34:09
FM Francois REAL: Cock?
34:09
FM Francois REAL: uh,
34:09
FM Francis REAL: C-O-Q?
34:11
Speaker 4: Cock.
34:12
Speaker 4: Cock, Really?
34:13
Speaker 4: Yeah.
34:13
Speaker 4: That's-
34:14
FM Francois REAL: They didn't know back
34:15
Speaker 4: the day.
34:15
Speaker 2: that that
34:15
FM Francois REAL: They
34:16
Speaker 2: bar would have a different meaning here in the United States.
34:17
Speaker 2: Well, yes.
34:17
Speaker 2: 100
34:18
Speaker: years ago, it, it's
34:20
Speaker 4: very different.
34:20
Speaker 4: Well, I mean,
34:20
FM Francois REAL: it's, it, is, uh, it's a
34:22
Speaker 4: that is translated now, so Okay.
34:25
Speaker: So I, I know that about
34:28
FM Francis REAL: that period of time was when kinda
34:30
Speaker: Spain a- as a country, you know, there's a whole bunch of different Spain, as a, really embraced
34:37
FM Francis REAL: the gin and tonic- Yeah
34:39
Speaker: Yeah in a goblet,
34:39
FM Francis REAL: right?
34:40
FM Francis REAL: That was...
34:40
FM Francis REAL: Was that
34:41
Speaker: that time that
34:41
FM Francis REAL: you were in the cocktail world?
34:42
FM Francis REAL: What was happening in
34:43
Speaker: was
34:44
FM Francois REAL: So I moved to Madrid in 2009, but I, I traveled a lot from 2004 because
34:48
Speaker 4: that's when I met my wife.
34:49
Speaker 4: Uh, 2005,'6,'7- That's
34:53
FM Francois REAL: when you had all the, the, the first
34:55
Speaker 4: running bars.
34:55
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah The
34:56
FM Francis REAL: The
34:56
FM Francois REAL: boom.
34:58
FM Francois REAL: I've, I've no shame in admitting the first time I went to
35:01
Speaker 4: one of those places, I was
35:03
FM Francois REAL: 25 years old, still very much Belgian, drinking beer and stuff like that.
35:09
Speaker 4: So I, I wasn't really into
35:10
FM Francois REAL: that world.
35:11
FM Francois REAL: And, you
35:12
Speaker 4: and
35:12
FM Francois REAL: there was this bartender who wanted to explain to me this
35:14
Speaker 4: amazing gin that he had, and he put me like a little sip, and I saw it.
35:18
Speaker 4: It was a sh- a sh- shooter glass that just went And
35:21
FM Francois REAL: pop.
35:22
Speaker 4: he looked at me
35:23
FM Francois REAL: like,
35:24
Speaker 4: like,"What
35:24
FM Francois REAL: have you done?
35:26
FM Francois REAL: What have you done?
35:27
FM Francois REAL: This gin is made with water from
35:29
Speaker 4: yeah.
35:29
Speaker: yeah.
35:30
FM Francis REAL: And I
35:31
Speaker 4: And I said-
35:31
Speaker: From the
35:31
Speaker 4: melted glaciers of
35:32
FM Francois REAL: Yes, exactly, and it was the first time when I thought,"Oh, there are people who are doing this
35:37
Speaker: now people are taking this seriously." And
35:38
FM Francois REAL: little did I know that a few years later I would be the one saying,"Don't do
35:42
Speaker: Yeah.
35:43
Speaker: Yeah.
35:43
Speaker 2: in drinks.
35:43
Speaker: All right, so can I ask a question this time?
35:45
Speaker: Sure, go ahead.
35:46
Speaker: All right,
35:47
FM Francis REAL: an
35:47
Speaker: drink, a historical drink.
35:49
Speaker: Um, but there's a time, when- In each of our lives if you're serious about cocktails where the martini enters your consciousness- Mm and you're like, and
35:58
FM Francis REAL: you have a martini, and you're like,"Oh, wait,
36:00
Speaker: is..."
36:01
FM Francis REAL: And it may not be your first martini,
36:02
Speaker: it may be your first martini.
36:03
Speaker: But it's a martini where you're like,"Oh, I
36:06
FM Francis REAL: it.
36:06
FM Francis REAL: I
36:07
Speaker: get it.
36:07
Speaker: I get it.
36:07
Speaker: this is, uh, Important.
36:09
Speaker: important.
36:09
Speaker: This is foundational." Did you
36:12
FM Francis REAL: have such a moment?
36:13
Speaker: if so, can you tell
36:14
FM Francis REAL: us about it?
36:15
Speaker 4: I don't
36:15
FM Francois REAL: know if it was foundational, but the,
36:16
Speaker 4: like the first time I really took martini seriously was when I moved
36:20
FM Francois REAL: to Spain and, and went
36:21
Speaker 4: that hunt of, you know, cocktail bars.
36:23
Speaker 4: and
36:24
FM Francois REAL: it's this place, it's still
36:25
Speaker 4: and it's this place.
36:25
Speaker 4: It's still open today.
36:25
Speaker 4: It's not one
36:26
FM Francois REAL: years old it's only 37.
36:28
Speaker 4: Uh, it's called- three six.
36:30
Speaker 4: It's called, uh, El Diego.
36:31
FM Francois REAL: and, and the, the owner who sadly passed away a few
36:36
Speaker 4: ago, sons are, the owner
36:39
FM Francois REAL: used to work
36:40
Speaker 4: for Chicote, the
36:40
FM Francois REAL: guy who has
36:41
Speaker 4: 100 years old bar that's still open in town.
36:45
Speaker 4: real school
36:46
FM Francois REAL: in a way, and they were
36:47
Speaker 4: this
36:47
FM Francois REAL: bone
36:48
Speaker 4: dry martinis.
36:49
Speaker 4: And
36:50
FM Francois REAL: that's probably the first time I
36:51
Speaker 4: the first time I thought,
36:52
FM Francois REAL: I, I prefer vermouth heavy on the ver- um,
36:54
Speaker 4: dry martinis heavy on vermouth, but still, that's the first time I thought,"Oh, wow,
36:59
FM Francois REAL: dry
37:00
Speaker 4: Martini,
37:00
FM Francois REAL: is something serious."
37:01
Speaker: yeah, it is the adult drink.
37:05
Speaker: it is not the, gateway drink.
37:06
Speaker: It's not the drink that you have when you're 17.
37:06
Speaker: No,
37:06
Speaker 4: no, no, no, no, no.
37:08
Speaker 4: it
37:08
Speaker: when- It's the one where you're like,"Oh, wow."
37:09
FM Francois REAL: We were talking about this So earlier today.
37:11
FM Francois REAL: I was, I was uh, moderating a round table on the other tinis, et cetera.
37:16
Speaker 4: But the first question I asked him was Simon F- Forthgin,
37:18
FM Francois REAL: Gin,
37:19
Speaker 4: Colin,
37:20
FM Francois REAL: uh, Azare
37:21
Speaker 4: used to work at, London and is now with Bacardi, and Toby Cecchini, so...
37:27
Speaker 4: Sure.
37:27
Speaker 4: and question I asked them is your first memory of a dry martini, and then
37:31
FM Francois REAL: It was not a b- a positive experience.
37:33
FM Francois REAL: They were like,"Oh,
37:33
Speaker 4: what is this thing?" Really?
37:35
FM Francois REAL: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
37:36
FM Francois REAL: Because it was so,
37:37
Speaker: because-
37:38
Speaker 2: Oh, I remember not liking martinis when I first had them.
37:40
Speaker 2: I remember that.
37:41
Speaker: I remember being a bartender at the Friar
37:43
FM Francis REAL: and the Peach, and, um,
37:45
Speaker: I was, I like I saw the guys who drank the martinis, and then they used to...
37:49
FM Francis REAL: f- the, There, were little martini glasses
37:51
Speaker: where they
37:51
FM Francis REAL: got in that phase where they, they were like nine-ounce
37:53
Speaker: glasses- Yeah that was, was awful.
37:55
Speaker: I never understood that like fill the martini
37:57
FM Francis REAL: all the way up to the very rim
37:59
Speaker: the waiter would have to spill it while carrying it to you, and then like people would like leave it on the table and bend down to of
38:06
FM Francois REAL: I
38:06
Speaker: never understood
38:07
Speaker 4: that.
38:07
Speaker 4: How do you?
38:08
Speaker 4: Well, I- I'm,
38:09
FM Francois REAL: again, I'm Belgian
38:10
Speaker 4: and the Dutch and the Belgian have
38:12
FM Francois REAL: got the same
38:13
Speaker 4: of
38:13
FM Francois REAL: of ritual where
38:14
Speaker 4: where if you
38:15
FM Francois REAL: order a beer, and with the beer you have
38:17
Speaker 4: of
38:17
FM Francois REAL: glass of genever.
38:18
FM Francois REAL: And the glass of genever will be to the rim, And you, are meant to do-- go like this
38:21
Speaker 4: this and drink
38:22
FM Francois REAL: a
38:22
Speaker 4: it down.
38:23
Speaker 4: it's like a reverence.
38:24
Speaker 2: It's Like a reverence.
38:24
Speaker 2: It's like having to bow to the drink.
38:25
FM Francois REAL: You bow to it.
38:26
FM Francois REAL: Yeah, you, you
38:26
Speaker 4: to the- I like it you
38:27
FM Francois REAL: bow
38:27
Speaker 4: the, the, I
38:28
FM Francois REAL: the night that is only getting started and you know, you know you
38:31
Speaker 4: know.
38:32
Speaker 4: how it's going to go.
38:33
FM Francis REAL: I didn't
38:34
Speaker: know that, I,
38:34
Speaker 2: I think Francois made that up, just so
38:36
FM Mark REAL: you know.
38:36
FM Mark REAL: I
38:41
FM Francois REAL: No, it's a real ritual.
38:42
FM Mark REAL: wish.
38:42
FM Francis REAL: we bartended at the same bar, uh,
38:44
Speaker: Mark and I, and there'd be the old guys, they'd be like old insurance guys or old pharmaceutical executives and the, like, the guys who were kind of a little dated, I guess would, would be now the, we'd call the Mad Men aesthetic, but it was- Mm-hmm they were sort of unfashionable,
38:57
FM Francis REAL: but they was like, I don't know, there was something about it, and they
38:59
Speaker: would order martinis, I
39:01
FM Francis REAL: had a reverence for it
39:02
Speaker: before I tried it, which is why I think I liked it.
39:04
Speaker 2: I, I gotta tell you though, and, to our point of this conversation, I didn't enjoy my first martinis,
39:11
FM Mark REAL: and I'll tell you why I didn't
39:12
Speaker 2: enjoy them,'cause I had two choices, and the choices were a very dry martini, which is not
39:17
FM Mark REAL: the martini I
39:18
Speaker 2: want.
39:19
Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.
39:19
Speaker 2: Okay?
39:19
Speaker 2: Still to this day, I don't want a super dry martini.
39:22
Speaker 2: Or two, have a martini.
39:25
Speaker 2: with a bottle of vermouth that's two years old that's sitting in
39:28
FM Francis REAL: open
39:28
Speaker 2: opens for two years, yeah because, because everybody's having the tiniest little splash of vermouth.
39:32
Speaker 2: And so frankly, as a young bartender- Of course I thought vermouth was terrible.
39:37
Speaker 2: Yeah.
39:38
FM Mark REAL: And I...
39:38
FM Mark REAL: That was my impression of vermouth.
39:40
FM Mark REAL: So the
39:41
Speaker 2: was either gonna be made with terrible vermouth or bone dry- No vermouth
39:44
FM Mark REAL: That's not
39:45
Speaker 2: I wanted.
39:46
Speaker 2: So it wasn't until, frankly, the Duckhorn,
39:50
FM Mark REAL: vermouth that we had way back
39:51
Speaker 2: and this-
39:52
Speaker: Duckhorn Winery came out with it.
39:53
Speaker: They were ahead of their time'cause it didn't work, and they discontinued it.
39:55
Speaker: They made a vermouth in America, and it was called King Eider Vermouth, and it was not exactly a great vermouth, but it was new and fresh and bright, and you'd get a good bottle of it, and it was from Sauvignon
40:05
Speaker 2: Blanc.
40:05
Speaker 2: It was low in tannins.
40:06
Speaker 2: And we would bring it quickly
40:07
FM Mark REAL: enough that it w- stayed fresh
40:08
Speaker 2: and you know, and, and it was that for me.
40:11
Speaker 2: that, was
40:12
FM Francois REAL: it.
40:12
FM Francois REAL: was a- aha
40:13
Speaker 2: Moment, right?
40:14
Speaker 2: Vermouth isn't disgusting.
40:15
Speaker 2: Yeah.
40:15
Speaker 2: Vermouth is delicious.
40:17
FM Mark REAL: that was
40:17
Speaker 2: me what changed.
40:18
Speaker 4: We've been working together behind a bar for 40 years.
40:20
Speaker 4: I didn't know that was his moment.
40:22
Speaker: I never asked him that
40:23
FM Francis REAL: question.
40:23
FM Francis REAL: I just
40:24
Speaker: just found out tonight.
40:25
Speaker: Anyway, it's been, uh, great to have you.
40:27
Speaker: Thanks for flying 5,000 miles to come to the Martini Expo.
40:30
Speaker 2: Well, thanks for flying 5,000 miles to be on the Restaurant Guys and come to the Martini Expo.
40:33
Speaker 2: Yeah.
40:33
Speaker 2: That's when
40:34
FM Francois REAL: I saw,
40:34
Speaker 2: the,
40:34
FM Francois REAL: when I saw the invitation to the podcast, I knew I'd made the, the right decision coming to Chicago for the
40:38
Speaker: I love it.
40:39
Speaker: Well,
40:39
FM Francis REAL: we're gonna go and have a couple
40:40
Speaker: martinis.
40:41
Speaker: Oh, yes.
40:41
Speaker: Stop
40:41
FM Francis REAL: talking about them and start engaging
40:43
Speaker: them.
40:43
FM Francis REAL: So stick with us.
40:44
FM Francis REAL: We'll be back on the other side.
40:46
FM Francis REAL: You can always find out more about us at restaurantguyspodcast.com.
40:49
FM Mark REAL: Martini time
40:50
Speaker 10: Our next victim at the Martini Expo is Ryan Mabie.
40:54
Speaker 10: Ryan is the co-founder of J.
40:56
Speaker 10: Rieger Company Distillery, which also has a bunch of restaurants on site.
41:00
Speaker 10: They are from Kansas City.
41:02
Speaker 10: Um, he, J- he was named Bartender of the Year by Imbibe Magazine, which is a magazine we love, of course.
41:07
Speaker 10: He's been featured everywhere from Esquire to Vogue.
41:10
Speaker 10: His creations have shaken their way into cocktail history.
41:13
Speaker 10: He's competed on global stages, launched the Paris of the Plains cocktail festival, which we wanna talk about, Mm-hmm.
41:19
Speaker 10: uh, and has really helped to shape Kansas City's cocktail culture, and done some pretty cool stuff out in the middle of the country
41:24
MIC1: Ryan, welcome to the show
41:25
Speaker 16: Thank you.
41:26
Speaker 16: Pleasure to be here.
41:27
Speaker 10: listen, we, love your story.
41:29
Speaker 10: and we love the bar and distillery concept together.
41:34
Speaker 10: Yeah.
41:34
Speaker 10: Uh, how did that come about?
41:35
Speaker 10: Actually, we have some gin that you brought here.
41:37
Speaker 10: Can
41:37
MIC2: Yeah, I brought our gin.
41:38
MIC2: you know, since, uh, I thought that was appropriate
41:40
Speaker 16: I hope it doesn't suck.
41:41
Speaker 16: I've never tried it before.
41:42
Speaker 16: Oh, I'll be tasting it here.
41:43
Speaker 16: it can't, it
41:43
MIC2: couldn't possibly, and not because it's rigor necessarily, but it was made by literally the, maybe the most
41:50
Speaker 16: gin, distiller world, Tom Nichol, That's awesome.
41:52
Speaker 16: formerly
41:52
MIC2: of Tanqueray.
41:53
MIC3: This is
41:54
MIC2: Thank you.
41:54
Speaker 16: mean-
41:54
Speaker 10: It
41:55
Speaker 11: smells amazing
41:55
Speaker 10: It's delicious But is it available in New Jersey?
42:00
MIC2: Wow.
42:00
MIC3: Wow.
42:00
Speaker 10: we're
42:01
MIC2: Yeah, we're in New Jersey, New York.
42:02
MIC2: We're in about 30
42:02
Speaker 16: states, and a little bit of international.
42:05
Speaker 10: If
42:05
MIC3: you're a Restaurant Guys regular, and
42:08
Speaker 10: you, Oh, this is good......if you're a Restaurant Guys regular and you pop into the bar Keep yourself alive...and you refer to this we're gonna
42:13
MIC3: buy you
42:14
Speaker 10: a gin martini made with Rieger Gin, uh-
42:16
Speaker 16: Super tasty well, uh,
42:17
Speaker 10: just if
42:18
MIC3: know, if you're a Restaurant Guys regular, you gotta
42:19
Speaker 10: curly...and a paid subscriber.
42:20
Speaker 10: Stop into the Stage Left
42:21
MIC3: Kathleen Barney Bar, say,"I heard it on the show, and Mark
42:24
Speaker 10: Francis said they'd buy me a Rieger martini." How's that?
42:27
Speaker 16: I love that.
42:27
Speaker 10: That's a great cross-promotion
42:28
MIC2: have to, I'm gonna have to
42:29
Speaker 16: our, uh, distributor in New Jersey to load up.
42:31
Speaker 16: Uh,
42:32
Speaker 10: e-
42:32
MIC3: yeah, exactly, exactly.
42:33
MIC3: The, the millions of Restaurant Guys regulars will be
42:35
Speaker 10: you're sending in pods.
42:36
Speaker 10: All
42:36
MIC3: right, so tell us about the
42:38
Speaker 10: of the distillery and the restaurant.
42:39
Speaker 10: It's a cool
42:39
MIC2: So it all kind of, uh, Well, first off, the brand
42:42
Speaker 16: back to 1887 in Kansas City, Missouri.
42:44
Speaker 16: It was a, a huge whiskey
42:46
MIC2: brand, uh, up until Prohibition.
42:48
MIC2: It was actually the largest mail order whiskey house in the United States.
42:50
MIC2: We were shipping bottles from coast to coast.
42:52
MIC2: It
42:52
Speaker 16: was a huge
42:53
MIC2: business.
42:53
MIC2: Um, and then Prohibition put us out of business, disappeared for
42:57
Speaker 16: 90-plus years.
42:59
Speaker 16: That's
42:59
MIC2: where I come in.
43:00
MIC2: Um, I was in the bar and restaurant business prior to this, prior to the distillery, and
43:04
Speaker 16: in fact, I had no idea that the, that this brand ever existed.
43:09
Speaker 16: the, the
43:09
MIC2: founder's son built a hotel in
43:11
Speaker 16: City that opened in 1915.
43:12
Speaker 16: It was called the Rieger Hotel.
43:14
Speaker 16: That
43:14
MIC2: was the, the name of
43:15
Speaker 16: the, hotel,
43:15
MIC2: And we think he was kinda like pivoting, uh, with Prohibition
43:19
Speaker 16: coming, you know, like got into the hotel business.
43:21
Speaker 16: diversifying.
43:21
Speaker 16: Oh,
43:22
Speaker 10: yeah.
43:22
Speaker 10: Smart.
43:22
MIC2: Yeah.
43:23
MIC2: And so that building is still standing, and in 2009,
43:26
Speaker 16: was looking for a location
43:28
MIC2: open my second bar, which was like a little kinda speakeasy style craft
43:32
Speaker 16: bar, um, that kind in Kansas
43:36
Speaker 10: But- What year was that?
43:37
Speaker 16: 09.
43:37
Speaker 16: Okay.
43:37
Speaker 16: Yeah.
43:38
MIC2: And very, very much influenced by
43:40
Speaker 16: and Honey, uh,
43:42
MIC2: Violet Hour, and we were, we were kinda early, you know,
43:44
MIC3: City.
43:44
MIC3: So was there-
43:45
Speaker 11: Kansas City.
43:45
Speaker 11: So was there- Yeah, you guys really are.
43:45
Speaker 11: I mean, Violet Hour was'07.
43:46
Speaker 16: Yeah.
43:47
Speaker 16: Uh-
43:47
Speaker 11: uh, Milk and
43:49
Speaker 16: Honey's
43:49
Speaker 11: 05.
43:50
Speaker 11: I, said, yeah Right.
43:50
Speaker 10: I think even before.
43:50
Speaker 10: was
43:50
MIC3: there a cocktail scene in Kansas City
43:52
Speaker 10: prior
43:52
Speaker 16: to that?
43:52
Speaker 16: Not like
43:53
MIC2: this.
43:53
MIC2: No, not like That Not the craft cocktail
43:55
Speaker 16: scene at all not the, the thing.
43:57
Speaker 16: You know, like,
43:58
MIC2: I, I, I went to Milk Honey in 2005 and it
44:00
Speaker 16: changed my life.
44:01
Speaker 11: Yep.
44:01
Speaker 16: And then I just became obsessed with the and
44:04
MIC2: you know, came to Chicago a lot and
44:05
Speaker 16: went to Violet Hour.
44:06
Speaker 16: You know, it was- that
44:06
Speaker 11: kind of place.
44:07
Speaker 11: Wasn't
44:07
MIC2: place.
44:07
MIC2: Wasn't It, it was really,
44:08
Speaker 16: really amazing.
44:09
Speaker 11: just one of...
44:10
Speaker 11: I, I, I- feel terribly that we always talk if you didn't go, you can't go, Yeah.
44:15
Speaker 11: right?
44:15
Speaker 11: Yeah.
44:16
Speaker 11: It, but it was such a special place, And what, what I wanna say, tell all our listeners is that was the kind of place when you go to a place and you say s- this is really cool and, and intimate and special, know that that place was probably informed by Milk Honey
44:31
Speaker 16: Yeah
44:32
Speaker 11: w- way back when.
44:33
Speaker 16: Yeah.
44:33
Speaker 11: Well, and
44:33
MIC3: and also Milk&Honey was a real speakeasy, and before,
44:36
Speaker 11: it used to have a telephone number that you- That's right...you
44:39
MIC3: knew the number.
44:40
MIC3: Like,
44:41
MIC2: well, he even changed the
44:42
Speaker 10: would
44:42
MIC2: lot Because,'cause it would get too widespread,
44:45
Speaker 16: it was-
44:45
Speaker 10: Well, somebody would publish it somewhere.
44:47
Speaker 16: Right, and he would change
44:48
Speaker 10: it And
44:48
MIC3: then he would call all the regulars who had the number
44:51
Speaker 10: say- Yeah"Okay, here's the
44:51
MIC3: new number.
44:52
MIC3: Don't tell anybody." Yeah.
44:53
MIC3: And then eventually they went to, you could go by
44:54
Speaker 10: text," but this was before text.
44:56
Speaker 10: Yeah.
44:56
Speaker 10: Yep.
44:56
MIC3: and and
44:57
Speaker 10: thing is, you know, there was that whole
44:58
MIC3: speakeasy
44:59
Speaker 10: speakeasy aesthetic that came from
45:01
MIC3: that, and some people took it a little too far,
45:03
Speaker 10: think, and it wasn't re- Like,"This is our new speakeasy.
45:06
Speaker 10: We
45:06
MIC3: don't want anyone
45:07
Speaker 10: know about it, and
45:08
MIC3: the entrance is on 32nd Street
45:10
Speaker 10: And
45:10
Speaker 11: Here's our ad
45:11
Speaker 10: but I
45:11
MIC3: on the cover of-" Uh, and, you know, I, but I think it really came from a very sincere thing.
45:14
MIC3: It was more than just
45:15
Speaker 10: the secretive nature of it.
45:16
Speaker 10: It was intimate- Yeah...and it was presenting cocktails in a very special way,
45:19
MIC2: very specialized- I, I always feel like when I tell the story about my first
45:22
Speaker 16: to Milk Honey, I
45:23
MIC2: feel like
45:24
Speaker 16: maybe being a little bit dramatic to say that, you know, going to a
45:26
MIC2: bar literally changed my life, but it did.
45:29
MIC2: it was that powerful of
45:30
Speaker 16: experience.
45:31
Speaker 16: It literally changed my life, and- So
45:32
Speaker 10: tell us what you experienced there and how it changed your life oh my
45:34
Speaker 16: God, Like,
45:35
MIC2: just everything from the, the...
45:37
Speaker 16: One of
45:37
MIC2: of the things that really
45:38
Speaker 16: struck me was
45:40
MIC2: the experience that I had before ever walking in- the door.
45:43
MIC2: You know,
45:43
Speaker 16: like
45:44
MIC2: getting the phone number, how the,
45:46
Speaker 16: number, was given to me, uh,
45:48
MIC2: the, you know, getting the reservation, and I had never, you know,
45:51
Speaker 16: at that point, you know, who'd ever made a reservation at a bar before?
45:54
Speaker 16: Right.
45:54
Speaker 16: Right.
45:55
MIC2: that's crazy, right?
45:56
MIC2: and then finding the location so hidden in
45:58
Speaker 16: location of uh, you know, just a dark
46:01
MIC2: street in,
46:02
Speaker 16: One thirty-s- in Eltrich
46:04
MIC2: Eldridge?
46:04
MIC2: between Broome and Delancey, You
46:06
Speaker 16: And, like,
46:06
MIC2: the whole experience.
46:07
MIC2: And I was even going with, I was visiting New York, and I was, taking a friend, and this friend brought,
46:12
Speaker 16: uh, two girls with her who had, who
46:14
MIC2: lived in New York but had never heard of it, and they thought I was crazy.
46:16
MIC2: They're like,"Who is this kid from Kansas City who's gonna show us
46:19
Speaker 16: bar that we've never heard of," here?
46:20
Speaker 16: yeah.
46:20
Speaker 16: And
46:21
MIC2: so they didn't, they didn't believe me.
46:22
MIC2: But, uh, you know, it was there, and we found it.
46:25
MIC2: I remember everything from the smell the,
46:27
Speaker 16: the first time the door opened
46:28
MIC2: and the flickering candlelight going down the bar and the, the gentleman who greeted me at the
46:33
Speaker 16: curtain.
46:33
Speaker 16: Yeah, go
46:34
MIC2: curtain, like pulling back that curtain and seeing the flickering candlelight and being hit
46:37
Speaker 16: that, aroma of fresh
46:39
MIC2: citrus
46:40
Speaker 16: mint and just
46:41
MIC2: everything about it.
46:42
MIC2: And then not having a menu and then just, like, having them
46:45
Speaker 16: cater the drinks
46:46
MIC2: to us.
46:46
Speaker 16: ice cubes,
46:47
MIC2: maybe the first time that I ever saw, like, you know, a large format ice cube like that.
46:50
MIC2: And it was, it it, was, just an in- a really incredible experience.
46:54
MIC2: Everything from all the attention to detail, the quality of the drinks,
46:58
Speaker 16: to the hospitality, everything about it.
46:59
Speaker 16: I, I couldn't get it out
47:01
MIC2: of my head.
47:01
MIC2: And, you know, I came back to Kansas City just obsessing over it, like,"I have to open a bar
47:06
Speaker 16: this.
47:06
Speaker 16: Okay.
47:06
Speaker 16: And it...
47:07
Speaker 16: That
47:07
MIC2: was the bar that I opened in that r- in the Rieger Hotel.
47:10
MIC2: Uh, in 2009, I opened a bar called Manifesto, and it was
47:13
Speaker 16: very much informed by Milk Honey.
47:15
MIC2: But, you know,
47:16
Speaker 16: we, gave
47:16
MIC2: it our own, uh, personality.
47:19
MIC2: you know, we
47:19
Speaker 16: infused our Kansas City sense of hospitality into it, and it
47:23
MIC2: became a juggernaut of a bar.
47:24
MIC2: It just really took
47:26
Speaker 11: So tell us about the Kansas City, what in- what informs your bar that makes it a Kansas City bar?
47:31
MIC2: Well, I, uh, you know, what I'm really talking about is
47:33
Speaker 16: sense of hospitality, that
47:34
MIC2: kinda easygoing, uh, Midwestern hospitality where, you know, you can
47:38
Speaker 16: what you do seriously, but you can't take yourself too seriously, Mm-hmm.
47:41
Speaker 16: you know?
47:42
Speaker 16: And
47:42
MIC2: you've gotta make sure that you're taking care of people and you're, you're presenting a kind of,
47:46
Speaker 16: uh, even if it's
47:47
MIC2: in a formal environment
47:48
Speaker 16: with
47:48
MIC2: a, you know, meticulous attention to detail when it comes to the drinks or the food or whatever, you still have to kinda
47:53
Speaker 16: an easygoing nature about yourself,
47:55
MIC2: and make people, you know, just feel welcome and, and relaxed, you know?
47:59
MIC2: Like, it's a blue-collar town.
48:00
Speaker 16: know, Yeah, yeah.
48:00
Speaker 16: we're, we're in the,
48:01
MIC2: the Midwest.
48:02
MIC2: Like any, like any town, like city in the Midwest like that has a very blue-collar nature to it,
48:06
Speaker 16: so you gotta be really careful about, going too
48:08
MIC2: far
48:09
Speaker 16: with, uh-...some
48:10
MIC2: of the formalities.
48:10
MIC2: But, it was fun.
48:12
MIC2: You know, Manifesto was...
48:14
MIC2: It had that aesthetic of Milk Honey, and it had the drinks and the, and everything about it, the concept-wise, but
48:19
Speaker 16: was also rowdy.
48:21
Speaker 16: It was fun and, and had a really
48:22
MIC2: good energy
48:23
MIC3: and so how did we
48:24
Speaker 10: from- Milk&Honey was never rowdy.
48:25
Speaker 10: never rowdy
48:25
Speaker 11: never rowdy.
48:26
Speaker 10: Never allowed to be rowdy.
48:27
MIC3: But how did
48:27
Speaker 10: get from there
48:29
MIC3: to your current bars and restaurants?
48:30
MIC3: I don't want to, I
48:31
Speaker 10: talk about-
48:31
MIC3: the distillery and, the
48:32
Speaker 10: bars and
48:33
MIC2: So a year and a half after I opened Manifesto, this is in a kind of a rundown old hotel building called The Rieger Hotel, but I didn't know about
48:41
Speaker 16: the brand, right?
48:42
MIC2: Um, but I had an opportunity to open up, a restaurant on the first floor, uh, in this old hotel building, so it would've been
48:47
Speaker 16: original hotel lobby.
48:48
Speaker 16: And
48:48
MIC2: so I just decided to call the restaurant the Rieger, named after the hotel, and, I started
48:52
Speaker 16: the history of the hotel,
48:53
MIC2: looking for old photographs and stories and anything that I could weave into the concept of the restaurant, and that's how I accidentally discovered
49:00
Speaker 16: the history of J.
49:00
Speaker 16: Rieger Company and was a
49:03
MIC2: whiskey distillery in Kansas City prior to Prohibition.
49:06
Speaker 11: Well, and you guys basically invented Kansas City Whiskey,
49:09
Speaker 16: right?
49:09
Speaker 16: We did.
49:09
Speaker 16: That was
49:09
MIC2: yeah.
49:10
MIC2: We-- That was our first product when we first decided to make an effort
49:13
Speaker 16: resurrect the brand, the whiskey brand.
49:15
Speaker 16: You know, I
49:16
MIC2: wanted to know what
49:16
Speaker 16: was Rieger Whiskey back
49:18
MIC2: in the 1800s when it was, you know,
49:20
Speaker 16: this
49:20
MIC2: huge nationally known brand
49:22
Speaker 16: and really successful.
49:23
Speaker 16: And
49:23
Speaker 10: what did you find out that said the Rieger hard-
49:25
MIC2: on the barrel?
49:25
MIC2: Well, what's...
49:26
MIC2: It's, it's complicated.
49:27
MIC2: It took me two years,
49:28
Speaker 16: um, along with
49:29
MIC2: Dave Pickerell,
49:30
Speaker 16: uh, Right one
49:30
MIC2: of our co-founders.
49:31
MIC2: I worked with him very closely on this.
49:33
MIC2: Um, wonder-
49:34
MIC1: important
49:35
Speaker 11: guy in the- Wonderful in the whiskey world.
49:36
Speaker 16: Very, Yeah.
49:37
Speaker 16: you
49:37
MIC2: I worked for- He was at WhistlePig for six- Yeah was-- He was kinda the face of WhistlePig and,...but he was also the master distiller at
49:43
Speaker 16: Mark for years, Yeah.
49:43
Speaker 16: and he
49:43
MIC2: was involved in
49:45
Speaker 16: far
49:45
MIC2: more brands than most
49:46
Speaker 16: realize.
49:47
Speaker 16: Yeah.
49:47
Speaker 16: You know, Yeah he was a big part of the, Yeah...the modern day kind of explosion
49:51
MIC2: of craft whiskeys, and we were one of them.
49:53
MIC2: So getting to work with him
49:54
Speaker 16: really
49:55
MIC2: special, but I,
49:56
Speaker 16: you know, I told him from the outset, like,
49:57
MIC2: I really wanna know what Rieger Whiskey was back
50:01
Speaker 16: then." And that's kind
50:02
MIC2: of an
50:02
Speaker 16: task because there
50:03
MIC2: were no
50:04
Speaker 16: records You
50:05
MIC2: know, there were no, there was no federal legislation or governance around whiskey
50:09
Speaker 16: production or labeling requirements,
50:10
MIC2: and
50:10
Speaker 16: we just don't have that documentation.
50:12
Speaker 16: But what
50:13
MIC2: we did discover was that it was very, very common, and
50:15
Speaker 16: really caught me off guard, that it was really common for producers
50:19
MIC2: like us back then to do blended whiskeys with the, the addition of a very small amount
50:22
Speaker 16: sherry, Right.
50:24
Speaker 16: Like added
50:24
MIC2: in, not like sherry
50:25
Speaker 16: finishing like we think of today, malt
50:27
MIC2: scotch or something, but literally producers
50:30
Speaker 16: adding sherry to their whiskey back then, so- Just to give it
50:32
Speaker 10: body and richness.
50:33
MIC2: a lot.
50:33
MIC2: Yeah, 2.5, but it, it, it makes a, it makes a big difference, and
50:42
Speaker 11: to be fair, using sherry.
50:45
Speaker 11: You're using a 15-year-old-
50:47
MIC2: We use- w- yeah, we do.
50:49
MIC2: You guys don't share your sherry with us.
50:49
MIC2: Well, no, I mean- You just throw
50:50
Speaker 11: mean-..."Hey, let's throw a little sherry in here."
50:52
Speaker 16: No.
50:52
MIC2: No, I mean, we went to Spain.
50:53
MIC2: You know, we went to Jerez de la Frontera and, took a lot of time in the formulation of, of our recipe and, and chose
50:59
Speaker 16: really-
50:59
MIC2: beautiful 15-year Oloroso sherry, uh, made by Williams Humbert, you know, one of the largest,
51:04
Speaker 10: sherry houses in the world Did the sherry you had is a dry
51:07
Speaker 16: It's
51:08
MIC2: a medium- Oloroso kind of media- so it's, it's an Oloroso.
51:10
MIC2: Oloroso.
51:10
MIC2: Uh, it's an o- 15-year Oloroso medium, kinda s-...it's got some sweetness and richness to it, but it has a dry finish.
51:16
Speaker 10: So we've had many whiskeys, uh, aged in sherry casks-
51:21
MIC2: Yeah.
51:21
MIC2: is there a specific reason-
51:22
MIC3: But I'm c- I'm, I...
51:23
MIC3: we
51:23
Speaker 10: had your whiskey.
51:24
Speaker 10: It's very
51:24
MIC3: rare that we'd have you on
51:25
Speaker 10: show and not have a whiskey.
51:26
Speaker 10: Yes.
51:26
Speaker 10: Right.
51:26
Speaker 10: Yeah.
51:26
Speaker 10: We kind of rushed together.
51:27
Speaker 10: here.
51:27
Speaker 11: Well, I'm just glad that, we had a show a few weeks ago with the guys from Til Death, Mm-hmm.
51:31
Speaker 11: and they just couldn't stop talking Rieger- I love that.
51:35
Speaker 11: Yeah and Rieger whiskey.
51:35
Speaker 11: It's an
51:36
MIC1: you know, how, how important
51:37
Speaker 11: were Yeah...to Kansas City and what they were doing and inspirational you guys were to them.
51:42
Speaker 11: Yeah, that was a- I,
51:43
Speaker 16: love
51:43
Speaker 11: that.
51:43
Speaker 11: I love
51:44
Speaker 10: that Well, Mark, I'm about to break a Mark and Francis rule
51:46
MIC3: because we, we're the Restaurant Guys, obviously,
51:47
Speaker 10: this podcast is a very important part of what we do, but we also run our own restaurants and a wine shop Mm and we own a liquor store as well.
51:53
MIC3: So we, I'm not supposed to do this
51:55
Speaker 10: I, talk to Mark first- Okay but we're gonna try and tempt you out to do a tasting or a dinner out with us Sure...in
51:59
MIC3: our restaurants in, in next year.
52:01
Speaker 10: you come in?
52:01
Speaker 16: Yeah.
52:02
MIC2: And...is this in
52:03
Speaker 16: In
52:03
Speaker 10: New
52:03
Speaker 16: Jersey.
52:03
Speaker 16: yeah.
52:03
Speaker 16: I would absolutely love to.
52:04
Speaker 16: That would be fantastic.
52:05
MIC3: I love my, Mark, I got the smile from Mark.
52:07
Speaker 10: I was looking,
52:08
MIC3: is it gonna be
52:08
Speaker 10: smile or is there a
52:09
MIC3: dirty look?
52:09
MIC3: I, I got
52:10
Speaker 10: smile, so.
52:10
Speaker 16: Yeah, that sounds great.
52:11
Speaker 10: Yeah.
52:12
Speaker 10: It's gonna
52:12
MIC3: be a lot of fun.
52:12
MIC3: I can't wait to try this whiskey.
52:13
MIC3: Yeah and we'll do a little cocktail.
52:15
MIC3: We'll figure out something we're gonna
52:16
Speaker 10: together.
52:16
Speaker 10: Very cool.
52:16
Speaker 10: It's gonna be a, a grand old time.
52:17
Speaker 10: But we have to, we must,
52:19
MIC3: here at
52:20
Speaker 10: Martini Expo- Mm-hmm now turn our conversation
52:22
MIC3: to the martini.
52:23
MIC3: Right.
52:23
MIC3: So I have a question,
52:24
Speaker 10: and Mark has a question for you.
52:26
Speaker 10: So
52:27
MIC3: what are you doing here at the Martini Expo?
52:28
MIC3: Why is the martini important?
52:30
MIC2: Um, what I'm doing here is I just got finished on a panel, with a couple of other brand representatives, owners, talking about
52:38
Speaker 16: gin.
52:38
MIC2: gin.
52:39
MIC2: So talking about like what does-- what is American gin?
52:42
MIC2: You know, what sets it apart?
52:43
MIC2: What are we doing that's different or unique?
52:45
MIC2: And, And, it was a really enlightening, discussion and, and it was, it was just really great.
52:49
MIC2: And of course, we got into the
52:50
Speaker 16: side of it and then Martin shared- So
52:52
Speaker 11: tell us what you're doing that's different and unique
52:53
Speaker 16: Well,
52:54
MIC2: actually we are, with our gin, what we're doing that's different and unique is
52:59
Speaker 16: being very traditional.
53:00
Speaker 16: Um-
53:00
Speaker 10: Yeah, you're being- that doesn't taste- So- So I
53:02
MIC3: spend a lot of
53:03
Speaker 10: I judged for
53:04
MIC3: the, uh, Ultimate
53:05
Speaker 10: Challenge- Yeah and for the ADI tasting for a long
53:07
MIC3: time, American gins.
53:08
MIC3: Mm-hmm.
53:09
MIC3: And boy, I really would like, and I think Mark
53:11
Speaker 10: like for You, too, to, to elaborate on what makes an American gin.
53:15
Speaker 10: 'Cause
53:15
MIC3: I would have some of these American gins and, you
53:18
Speaker 10: some
53:18
MIC3: of them
53:19
Speaker 10: great.
53:19
Speaker 10: Mm-hmm.
53:19
Speaker 10: Um, but some of them, you could hardly taste
53:22
MIC3: any juniper,
53:23
Speaker 10: and there was a lot
53:23
MIC3: of
53:24
Speaker 10: turmeric...and everything.
53:25
Speaker 10: And what makes an American gin as a style distinct from a Plymouth gin or
53:29
MIC3: or a London
53:29
Speaker 10: dry
53:30
MIC3: gin or Old
53:31
Speaker 16: gin or an Old Tom gin?
53:31
Speaker 16: Well,
53:31
MIC2: that was a big part of the
53:32
Speaker 16: in the
53:33
MIC2: panel, and
53:34
Speaker 16: I think the,
53:35
MIC2: conclusion is that there really isn't anything.
53:37
MIC2: and if, and if you kinda had to hang your hat on something
53:40
Speaker 16: that, defined American gin, it's that
53:41
MIC2: you can do a lot of different things and you've got a lot of room for innovation and a l- there's
53:46
Speaker 16: broad range
53:48
MIC2: of flavor profiles and styles.
53:50
MIC2: Whereas, you know, London dry is gonna be very narrow.
53:52
MIC2: Or even in other American
53:54
Speaker 16: like American bourbon it's gonna be very rigid, Mm-hmm.
53:56
MIC2: you know, and you don't have a lot of room for experimentation.
53:59
MIC2: But within the category of American gin, pretty much
54:01
Speaker 16: goes.
54:02
Speaker 10: So would you say,'cause how I would define
54:04
MIC3: is, and, and people even try
54:05
Speaker 10: say,
54:05
MIC3: Well, there's a Western gin, an Am-
54:07
Speaker 10: an American western gin.
54:08
Speaker 10: Yeah.
54:08
Speaker 10: And I don't know that there's...
54:09
Speaker 10: gin,
54:09
MIC3: is so dependent on who's making it and the formula.
54:12
MIC3: It's not like the gin from this region has
54:14
Speaker 10: different microbe in the air that makes it taste a certain way.
54:16
Speaker 10: Mm-hmm.
54:16
MIC3: I just think with American gin," you
54:17
Speaker 10: stray further away from the than
54:20
Speaker 16: with a London dry.
54:21
MIC2: and I'm glad you said that because I felt the
54:23
Speaker 16: way.
54:23
Speaker 16: And when
54:23
MIC2: we made our gin in 2015, uh, we worked with the former master distiller of Tanqueray, Tom Nichol.
54:29
MIC2: So
54:29
Speaker 16: he, this is the guy that created Tanqueray Number Ten, and he's just an
54:31
MIC2: an absolute, uh, legend And wonderful person to, uh, work with.
54:35
MIC2: and you can even see his
54:36
Speaker 16: picture on the inside of the, label.
54:37
Speaker 16: Oh, I
54:37
MIC3: you can even see his picture on the inside of the bottle Oh, I love that that's, uh, Tom up there.
54:37
MIC3: You can look at him through the
54:38
MIC2: there.
54:38
MIC2: that's, uh,
54:39
Speaker 16: right there.
54:39
Speaker 10: Because
54:40
MIC2: It is Tom Nichol.
54:40
MIC2: So, so you know, it, in 2015 and even still, you
54:44
Speaker 16: in large part today,
54:45
MIC2: so many gins are like you describe in America, like we're trying to get too far away from juniper or trying to like showcase local botanicals or, or things like that.
54:54
MIC2: And we said,"Let's make the best
54:57
Speaker 16: possible London dry." In the United States.
55:00
Speaker 16: Right.
55:00
MIC2: And so we went very, very old school classic London dry gin.
55:04
MIC2: Um, and obviously
55:05
Speaker 16: Tom with his background with Tanqueray was able to, you know, we
55:09
MIC2: wanted...
55:09
MIC2: And it, And it, kinda goes back to being a bartender
55:11
Speaker 16: It's like if
55:12
MIC2: somebody asks me for a martini at the bar or a negroni or really any classic cocktail, I'm always gonna gravitate towards a
55:18
Speaker 16: dry style because the majority of those cocktails would've been made with a London dry gin.
55:22
Speaker 16: We're vain with those.
55:22
Speaker 16: Sure.
55:22
Speaker 10: Sure.
55:23
Speaker 10: You can't, you can't depart from that when someone orders a martini or a gin and tonic unless it comes with explanation.
55:29
MIC2: Or if they ask for it.
55:30
MIC2: but
55:30
Speaker 10: ask for
55:30
MIC3: and you say"Listen,"Yeah, I'm gonna make you
55:32
Speaker 10: a martini but I'm gonna use a gin that's a little unusual- Right so here's some old rocks." Right.
55:36
Speaker 10: I
55:36
MIC2: they're-- those drinkers, for the most part, have a very specific idea of what they want that, that cocktail to taste like, and you can't go too far.
55:42
MIC2: So we, we wanted to make a, a very classic London dry with our gin.
55:46
Speaker 10: you've
55:48
Speaker 11: right, so our final question.
55:50
Speaker 11: What was your moment you knew the important and central cocktail to the, to the cocktail world?
55:58
Speaker 11: What was your moment you're like,"This is special.
56:00
Speaker 11: There's something about the martini that
56:02
Speaker 16: is special.
56:02
Speaker 16: Probably the first
56:03
MIC2: time, I mean, I started bartending in 1999, um, in a steakhouse, in a really beautiful bar in a, in a steakhouse, and so we were making martinis.
56:13
MIC2: Yeah.
56:13
MIC2: But they weren't, they weren't the
56:14
Speaker 16: real
56:15
MIC2: martini, you know what I
56:15
Speaker 16: Right.
56:16
Speaker 16: For the most part It's like, a
56:16
MIC2: lot of dirty martinis, but then a lot of, like, you know, crazy riffs like the apple martinis and things like that.
56:21
MIC2: So the first time that I think that I ever really had, a martini experience that was, like, that elevated,
56:28
Speaker 16: classic martini probably at the Pig and Clown in-
56:31
Speaker 10: really in New York.
56:31
Speaker 10: Interesting.
56:32
Speaker 10: Yeah.
56:32
Speaker 10: Wow.
56:32
MIC3: That's a, that's a...
56:33
MIC3: You started right
56:34
Speaker 10: the pedigree Yeah.
56:35
MIC2: And well, I, and I remember, I remember the bartender very well.
56:38
MIC2: It was Kenta
56:39
Speaker 16: Sure.
56:39
Speaker 16: Oh,
56:39
MIC3: my goodness.
56:40
MIC2: who now has his own
56:41
Speaker 16: Sure.
56:42
Speaker 16: Yeah.
56:42
Speaker 11: We're doing a show with Kenta about two weeks before.
56:44
MIC2: it had to have been the first time that I ever saw the, mise en place of a, a martini with the crushed ice and the sidecar and a couple of extra garnishes on the side, and just the, that, attention to detail, you know, where the martini was more than just what was in the glass, but it was this, this immersive
57:00
Speaker 16: immersive experience.
57:01
MIC2: and, uh,
57:02
Speaker 16: that
57:02
MIC2: was awesome to
57:03
MIC3: Kenta is one of those guys,
57:05
Speaker 10: if you're gonna have a first martini served by someone, he's s- he's a very stately, reserved, and
57:10
MIC3: quiet, elegant
57:11
Speaker 16: Yes.
57:12
Speaker 16: He's the perfect, Perfect, person to
57:13
Speaker 11: do it.
57:13
Speaker 11: absolutely.
57:13
Speaker 11: He's also somebody who you want to serve you your last martini.
57:16
MIC2: who you want to serve you your last martini.
57:16
MIC2: Right.
57:16
MIC3: And he's also somebody who you want to serve you your last martini.
57:17
MIC3: I don't want that to be for a
57:17
Speaker 10: long time.
57:18
MIC3: time.
57:19
Speaker 10: Listen, man,
57:19
MIC3: it's been great having you on the show.
57:20
MIC3: Thanks for letting us steal you
57:21
Speaker 10: this excellent, uh, martini.
57:23
Speaker 10: expo.
57:23
Speaker 10: And
57:23
MIC3: hopefully we can kidnap you out to New
57:25
Speaker 10: one of these days.
57:25
Speaker 10: I I'm up for
57:26
Speaker 16: it.
57:26
Speaker 16: Yeah.
57:26
Speaker 16: I'd love to
57:27
Speaker 10: It'd be a great time.
57:28
Speaker 10: Yeah.
57:28
Speaker 10: Thanks a bunch.
57:28
Speaker 10: Thanks so much, Ryan.
57:30
Speaker 10: Yeah.
57:30
Speaker 10: Thank you guys.
57:30
Speaker 10: Thanks for
57:30
Speaker 16: coming.
57:30
Speaker 16: Pleasure.
57:32
The Restaurant Guys: And so there's a selection of the coolest folks we met at the Martini Expo.
57:35
The Restaurant Guys: It went on for days.
57:36
The Restaurant Guys: It was great.
57:37
The Restaurant Guys: We met a lot of people.
57:38
The Restaurant Guys: It was super fun.
57:39
The Restaurant Guys: And, uh, next year we're gonna go again.
57:41
The Restaurant Guys: And if you're still listening, we're really proud of you.
57:44
The Restaurant Guys: Hope you've enjoyed the time.
57:45
The Restaurant Guys: I'm Francis Schacht.
57:46
The Restaurant Guys: I'm Mark Pascal.
57:47
The Restaurant Guys: We are the Restaurant Guys.
57:48
The Restaurant Guys: You can always find out more about us at RestaurantGuysPodcast.com.