Latest / The Dr. Sarah Hensley Show / Anxious Preoccupied Attachment: Why Chasing Love Pushes People Away | E3

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Anxious Preoccupied Attachment: Why Chasing Love Pushes People Away | E3 · The Dr. Sarah Hensley Show

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: People aren't random, They're incredibly predictable. This is a show
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  Speaker 1: about the science of human behavior, relationships, emotional healing, and
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  Speaker 1: the hidden patterns running our lives that most of us
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  Speaker 1: don't even realize exist. Because once you see the pattern,
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  Speaker 1: you can finally change it. I'm doctor Sarah Hensley.
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  Speaker 2: And I'm Randa Butcher.
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: You think your life is random.
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  Speaker 2: It's not. Welcome to the Doctor Sarah Hensley Show.
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: What if the very thing you think will make your
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: relationship better is actually pushing your partner away. In this episode,
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  Speaker 1: I want to talk about anxious preoccupied attachment. It is
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  Speaker 1: the least common attachment style I see in my practice.
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  Speaker 1: Why is that because they have this idea that they
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  Speaker 1: can keep trying different strategies. They have this sort of
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  Speaker 1: feeling that they're not good enough. And if you understand
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  Speaker 1: not good enough, you know it could possibly be classified
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  Speaker 1: as a wound because it has to do with, you know,
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  Speaker 1: this idea that I am right. It makes it seem
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  Speaker 1: like if you just give me a chance, I can
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  Speaker 1: try harder and then I'll be good enough for me.
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  Speaker 1: And so that's what they do. They just keep trying
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  Speaker 1: and trying and trying and trying. No, give me another chance.
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  Speaker 1: I'll try harder. And so there I think more like
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  Speaker 1: reluctant to actually reach out for help because they have
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  Speaker 1: this own, you know, sort of inner working model that's
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  Speaker 1: telling them, no, you can figure it out. Keep just
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  Speaker 1: keep trying, just try harder.
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  Speaker 2: And how does this form?
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  Speaker 1: How do they get that intermittent reinforcements. This is classic
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  Speaker 1: work by BF Skinner, who is arguably the most famous
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  Speaker 1: social psychologist that ever existed. And actually, as a social
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  Speaker 1: psychologist to myself, I'm very drawn to B. F. Skinner's
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  Speaker 1: work because my model for coaching is based in conditioning.
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  Speaker 1: So attachment is can primarily we have to deal with
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  Speaker 1: the cognitive effect of schemas a little bit, but the
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  Speaker 1: behavior is primarily conditioned, and so changing requires a lot
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  Speaker 1: of reconditioning. And so BF Skinner was this famous, famous
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  Speaker 1: social psychologist. He literally dominated the field for fifty years.
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  Speaker 1: He gave his last famous speech to the American Psychological
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  Speaker 1: Association in nineteen eighty eight, where he was still arguing
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  Speaker 1: that the dependent variable in all psychological research should be
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  Speaker 1: behavior because it is observable. Think about it. It's harder
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  Speaker 1: to rely on what somebody reports as their thoughts or
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  Speaker 1: somebody reports as their emotions. They may not understand their emotions,
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  Speaker 1: they may have recall biased and not really remember what
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  Speaker 1: they were thinking. But behavior is observable.
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  Speaker 2: Perhaps we can watch it. Skinner had it going on.
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  Speaker 1: He did, and he put animals in cages and kind
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  Speaker 1: of yes, but you know, his rat pellet studies are
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  Speaker 1: definitely and his vision studies are definitely the most famous.
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  Speaker 1: So he was the first person to coin the term
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  Speaker 1: intermittent reinforcement. And intermittent reinforcement is this idea that sometimes
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  Speaker 1: you get your need met, sometimes you don't, and you
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  Speaker 1: never know when it's going to happen. So it's that
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  Speaker 1: unpredictability or uncertainty that creates the anxiety and addiction component
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  Speaker 1: of whatever it is that the need is right, whatever
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  Speaker 1: the reward or reinforcement is. In the rats, it was
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  Speaker 1: the food pellet. In relationships, it's love and affection from
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  Speaker 1: your partner. So if your partner is inconsistent with you,
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  Speaker 1: it's going to make you anxious and addicted. So breadcrumbing
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  Speaker 1: will make you anxious and addicted. And for those with
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  Speaker 1: anxious preoccupied attachments, the majority of them come into my
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  Speaker 1: practice and they say, had a great childhood. My parents
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  Speaker 1: were so loving, they loved each other, they loved me,
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  Speaker 1: they were open, they were supportive, and usually I have
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  Speaker 1: to dig, but we find that it just wasn't consistent enough.
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  Speaker 1: Most of the time. What I see that caused the
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  Speaker 1: inconsistency is a profound parental stressor that occurred in the
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  Speaker 1: child's childhood. So that could be like Dad lost a
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  Speaker 1: job and was unemployed for a year and it was
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  Speaker 1: really stressful in the family. Or Grandma got sicked and
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  Speaker 1: she moved in and they had to be caretaker to grandma.
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  Speaker 1: Or you know, my parents got in an accident and
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  Speaker 1: they were disabled for a little while and that was
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  Speaker 1: really hard in the family. Or I had a sibling
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  Speaker 1: that was born with a disability. There's always something that
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  Speaker 1: is usually like this unique parental stressor that took the
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  Speaker 1: parents from consistent attuonement to the child to more inconsistent
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  Speaker 1: attuonment because they became stressed. That's not the only thing
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  Speaker 1: I see. Sometimes I see just this really variable parenting
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  Speaker 1: style where maybe Dad is very emotionally cold. Dad's a
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  Speaker 1: huge da right, and he's very emotionally cold, and Mom's
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  Speaker 1: very warm and open, and so when child is with mom,
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  Speaker 1: their needs are met. When child is with dad, needs
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  Speaker 1: are not meant. I would say that that's a little
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  Speaker 1: bit less of a strong intermittent reinforcement construct because it's
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  Speaker 1: sort of more predictable. I know, when I'm with dad,
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  Speaker 1: I'm gonna, you know, get ignored. I know when I'm
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  Speaker 1: with mom, I'm gonna get my needs met. But there
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  Speaker 1: can be some unpredictability, like who's watching me today? You know,
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  Speaker 1: like it's today going to be the day where I
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  Speaker 1: get to be with mom and get my needs met.
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  Speaker 1: So that can create it. But it's just general inconsistency.
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  Speaker 1: So there's this study that people talk about all wrong
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  Speaker 1: on the internet. It's a study by Edward Tronic and
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  Speaker 1: Edward Tronnick found that parents only attuned to their children
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  Speaker 1: on average thirty percent of the time, So we only
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  Speaker 1: get an attunement match between parent and child thirty percent
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  Speaker 1: of the time. What they did not do in that
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  Speaker 1: study is follow up to see if those kids became
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  Speaker 1: secure or insecurely attached. And it gets twisted on the
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  Speaker 1: internet by saying you don't have to be a perfect parent,
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  Speaker 1: you only have to tune to your kid thirty percent
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  Speaker 1: of the time. Oh no, just because we found that's
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  Speaker 1: the average doesn't mean that's ideal. We don't know if
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  Speaker 1: those kids grew up to be anxious or avoidant. We
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  Speaker 1: have no idea. So I usually tell people try to
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  Speaker 1: be a solid B parent. You don't have to be perfect.
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  Speaker 1: Nobody's asking you to be an A or an A plus.
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  Speaker 2: And what is that like? Seventy five eighty.
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  Speaker 1: Like an eighty to eighty five percent, meaning you need
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  Speaker 1: to get it right with your kids eighty to eighty
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  Speaker 1: five percent of the time. That leaves fifteen percent error.
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  Speaker 1: It's far more error we would accept in science. So
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  Speaker 1: it's really giving a lot of grace in my opinion,
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  Speaker 1: to parents, which means we have to have an attunement match.
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  Speaker 1: What's an attunement match. It means that your child comes
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  Speaker 1: to you with some kind of need emotion. You are
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  Speaker 1: dialed incorrectly and giving them attention and attunement and comfort
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  Speaker 1: based on what they need in that moment. So it's
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  Speaker 1: a need match. They're coming to you with a need,
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  Speaker 1: you're giving them that need. Right. It doesn't mean you're
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  Speaker 1: always giving into what they want, but say they want
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  Speaker 1: to eat potato chips for dinner and you're like, no,
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  Speaker 1: you can't have potato chips, right, but you can say, oh, buddy,
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  Speaker 1: I know potato chips are awesome that I can totally
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  Speaker 1: see why you would love potato chips for dinner, and
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  Speaker 1: that's not really a healthy choice. So this is what
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  Speaker 1: we're eating for dinner. So that's an attunement match going
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  Speaker 1: in just being like, no, you can't have chips. Yeah,
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  Speaker 1: but they have an e they want chips. That's their want.
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  Speaker 1: So you acknowledge it, you validate through understanding first, and
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  Speaker 1: then you hold the boundary. That's proper attunement. And that
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  Speaker 1: is really how I teach parents, because the number one
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  Speaker 1: question I get after group is oh, my gosh, what
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  Speaker 1: have I done to my kids?
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  Speaker 2: Right?
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, I totally messed my kids up, which you didn't,
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  Speaker 1: And yeah, they may be insecurely attached, but attachment is
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  Speaker 1: it's changeable. Yeah, it's changeable. Yeah, right, not without the work,
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  Speaker 1: but it is what do I do? And so the
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  Speaker 1: first thing I said is, or I always say, is
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  Speaker 1: you have to have an attunement match eighty to eighty
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  Speaker 1: five percent of the time, which is, oh, I understand,
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  Speaker 1: I get it, I see you, I hear you. That's attunement.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah right, and that takes practice. Man, that's a level
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  Speaker 3: of consciousness like in that moment.
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  Speaker 1: So why high medacognition is important, which is one of
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  Speaker 1: the foundational skills of my program. APS have very low
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  Speaker 1: self monitoring skills, very low metacognition.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, very very low.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, just as low as the DA. Yeah. Self monitoring
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  Speaker 1: is is this idea that you can kind of like
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  Speaker 1: third party watch yourself And metacognition is this idea that
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  Speaker 1: you sort of third party watch your mind. So self
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  Speaker 1: monitoring is you watching your behavior? Metacognition is you watching
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  Speaker 1: your thoughts. They have very low ability to do that.
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  Speaker 1: They are acting very quickly into activation or pursuit without
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  Speaker 1: realizing how needy, how desperate, how.
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  Speaker 2: Control controlling it can be.
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  Speaker 1: It can be very controlling, very because they're terrified of abandonment.
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  Speaker 1: So the deep wound is that of abandonment. I think
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  Speaker 1: the I am not good enough wound is kind of
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  Speaker 1: it's kind of there. I think I think science would
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  Speaker 1: probably classify that as a wound, but people still debate,
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  Speaker 1: you know, is it just a feeling, is it a wound?
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  Speaker 1: It's definitely They're not as big as abandonment. I mean,
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  Speaker 1: abandonment is the ultimate wound, right, the ultimate fear. And
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  Speaker 1: I really don't like getting caught up in this wound
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  Speaker 1: that wound, this wound that wound, because it keeps people
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  Speaker 1: stuck at the level of understanding trying to map every
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  Speaker 1: wound that they have versus actually entering into the healing work.
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  Speaker 1: You can't know every wound you have. It's impossible. It's impossible,
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  Speaker 1: and the people that try to convince you that it's
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  Speaker 1: possible don't know what they're talking about. So I focus
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  Speaker 1: on the primary ones, like abandonment, like that's clear, say, right,
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  Speaker 1: so let's focus on that one. So they're all hypervigilant
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  Speaker 1: to cues that their partner could distance or could leave them.
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  Speaker 1: Whereas the FA is hypervigilant towards like every queue possible,
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  Speaker 1: the AP is just really hypervigilant towards abandonment. Their heart
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  Speaker 1: just expects people will always leave me. But then here's
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  Speaker 1: the paradox. They push too hard, they smother, they control,
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  Speaker 1: they beg they look desperate, and it turns people off.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, it pushes them away.
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  Speaker 1: And it makes people leave them, which confirms the very
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  Speaker 1: fear that they struggle with. That they will be abandoned.
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  Speaker 1: So I believe I'll be abandoned. I push people, I
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  Speaker 1: smother people, I'm too needy, and then they move away
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  Speaker 1: from me. See there it was, I'm abandoned yet again. Yeah,
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  Speaker 1: all of our attachment wounds, all of them are a
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  Speaker 1: self fulfilling prophecy that will happen over and over and
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  Speaker 1: over again until we do the work.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah.
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  Speaker 3: Gives me goosebumps because I just think about my sweet
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  Speaker 3: little boy, you know, who struggles with I would say, yeah.
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  Speaker 1: She's a pretty full aby.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, and it makes sense if I think about, you know,
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  Speaker 3: his dad in mine's relationship, and there was quite a
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  Speaker 3: bit of intermittent overlay. Absolutely definitely. But this isn't a
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  Speaker 3: show about him, so but it just it does. It
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  Speaker 3: makes my heart just go out to him because I
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  Speaker 3: see that in him with.
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  Speaker 1: His Both of my kids ended up fet Yeah, Gabby,
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  Speaker 1: I'm very certain she's securely attached now. Yeah, very certain.
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  Speaker 2: She's grown up a lot.
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  Speaker 1: Oh my gosh. She she's just precious with her boyfriend
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  Speaker 1: right now. They're so precious.
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  Speaker 2: That's good.
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  Speaker 1: And they just talk so openly and just resolve things
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  Speaker 1: so well.
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  Speaker 2: And she's very emotionally mature.
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  Speaker 1: Oh gosh, she's like an twenty five year old emotional
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  Speaker 1: and even.
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  Speaker 2: The little that I'm around her, like you know, when we.
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  Speaker 3: Went to the lake a couple of weeks ago, it's
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  Speaker 3: just very obvious, like Gabby appears very like a lot
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  Speaker 3: older than what she really is.
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  Speaker 1: Yes, And I think that that's one of the things
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  Speaker 1: that is kind of hurt her in friendships is that
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  Speaker 1: everybody else is acting like a fifteen year old and
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  Speaker 1: she's a fifteen year old that's like a twenty five
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  Speaker 1: year old emotionally like almost like this, okay, side note,
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  Speaker 1: but listen to this. She went to a sleepover with
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  Speaker 1: her friends at her friend's house the other night, friends
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  Speaker 1: that she's had for a while now, and at two
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  Speaker 1: in the morning, they were like, let's go wandering around
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  Speaker 1: the parking lot and like meet up with this guy
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  Speaker 1: that like like so and so met on snapchat one
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  Speaker 1: of the friends, and Gabby was like, if you all
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  Speaker 1: want to get raped and murdered, you go right ahead.
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  Speaker 1: I'm going to bed, Yeah, And she came home so
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  Speaker 1: upset because she was like they couldn't see how that
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  Speaker 1: was a bad idea, mom, And I'm for her Oh,
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: thank god, Evers a good kid.
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  Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, it makes good decisions.
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  Speaker 1: Yes, that makes good decisions. I'm not sure that I
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: wouldn't have been wandering around that parking lot. I probably
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  Speaker 1: would have gone at fifteen.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, I can't say that I wouldn't have either. It
• 13:00
  Speaker 3: probably would have been my idea.
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  Speaker 1: I was a friend, your idea. I'm just in the follower. No,
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: I don't know. I wasn't really that much of a follower.
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: I was more of a leader. But I don't know.
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  Speaker 1: But I was just like and Gaby was like, I
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  Speaker 1: don't know if I can do this. Mom, Like, I
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: am not out there to be doing bad things, Like
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: I'm not good for her because her dad died of
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: a freaking overdose.
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  Speaker 2: Like she She's like she.
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: Associates like shady behavior with like really bad consequences, which
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  Speaker 1: is good. And I will say, how does this relate
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  Speaker 1: to the ap They will put themselves into some sketchy
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  Speaker 1: ass situations to get love, Like they will go into
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  Speaker 1: the parking lot at two am. Yeah, I've seen out
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  Speaker 1: of this, like desperate attempt to just have connection with someone.
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  Speaker 3: I've seen gosh, and I'm reluctant to speak about my
• 13:54
  Speaker 3: son on these things, not because he'll listen, because he won't,
• 14:00
  Speaker 3: just because I want to respect his private life. You know,
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  Speaker 3: he's an adult, but I have seen so many things
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  Speaker 3: that he has done that are so questionable. Not to
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  Speaker 3: the point of like putting himself in danger necessarily, but
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  Speaker 3: just full self abandonment.
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, let's talk about that. AP is completely self abandoned.
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  Speaker 1: They are completely partner focused. How can I get my
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: partner to insert thing here? What do I need to
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: be to get them to love me? Not are they
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: loving me correctly? But what do I need to give
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: to them?
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  Speaker 2: And why is this so dangerous?
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: Because it means they have no boundaries and they have
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: no identity. They have no identity. They can really be chameleons.
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: You know. Oh their partner loves football. Now they love football. Oh,
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: their partner likes to hike. Now they love to hike,
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: even though they've never been on a hike in their life. Right,
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: And they feel like once we enter some kind of relationship,
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: first of all, they want relationships to get to get
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: committed way too soon. Second of all, they want these
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: shared experiences with their partner to be constant. I want
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: shared emotional experiences. I want shared physical experiences. I want
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: you know, everything we do to be together now that
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: we're together, and it is not reasonable or healthy or healthy.
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: They have codependence, you know. And codependence isn't just limited
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: to the anxious preoccupied. I think all insecure attachments are
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: at risk of codependence. Even the dismissive avoidant could be
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: codependent because they can stay in a marriage they're fundamentally
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: completely unhappy in because that partner serves some purpose in
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: their life, even if it's just not admitting failure. But
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: aps are like the activators of codependence, like I am
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: not okay if we are not okay.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's toxic.
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  Speaker 1: It is so toxic. And but what's sad is they
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: have the most sweet, warm disposition and their hearts are
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: apparently they have a very sweet and warm disposition and
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: care about others. But when you think about it, they're
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: really caring about themselves and what they receive. Absolutely, even
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: though on the outside it looks like I just really
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: care about you and only you know, they're caring about
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: if they get the love that they want in return.
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: And I know that sounds like the opposite of what
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: I just said, but let me explain the paradox. That's
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: the paradox. Subconsciously they're caring about you know, I need
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: this love. I need this love, I need this love.
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  Speaker 1: But consciously they're saying, I'll take this love if it
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  Speaker 1: means giving up what I want, because I just want
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  Speaker 1: this love, right, not this Like I'm truly trying to
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  Speaker 1: attune to what somebody wants. They actually think they're very
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: emotionally available, but they're not at all. They're not at all.
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  Speaker 1: Think about it. When they attract very emotionally unavailable to people. Two,
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: they drop their own needs and boundaries in order to
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: have love. And part of being emotional available is expressing
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  Speaker 1: what you really need and want and being authentic in
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  Speaker 1: a relationship. And they're not authentic.
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  Speaker 2: Inflation and in conflict, they just fun.
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  Speaker 1: They fawn, they might soft fight a little bit, but
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  Speaker 1: then they'll back up and be like, Okay, you're right, I'm.
• 17:13
  Speaker 3: Sorry right, which to in my experience with what I've seen,
• 17:17
  Speaker 3: it doesn't allow the other partner to be seen.
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: No, it doesn't allow the other partner to be seen
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: because they're like, what are you even sorry for? Like,
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: if you have an ap with an FA, the FA
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: is going to take the more avoidant position. The AP
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: is always anxious. They're going to piss off that FA
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  Speaker 1: to no end. When they're just like, i'm sorry, I'm sorry,
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  Speaker 1: I didn't mean to hurt you. I'm sorry that you're upset.
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: They're gonna be like, what are you even sorry for?
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: Do you not see my pain?
• 17:39
  Speaker 3: Right?
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: Do you not get it? And they don't get it.
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: They're just like, what I mean, but I'm sorry, I'm sorry, right,
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: And it's just this really shallow version of love. And
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: they don't even know that it's a shallow version of
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: love at all. And that's what's sad. That is sad
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: because they think that but I want love, I'm here
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: for it. You can be here for it. But if
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: you don't really know how to give it in a
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: way that's appropriate, that balances your own independence and their
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: own independence with the relationship, you're not really loving in
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: a healthy way, and if you don't know how to
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: express your needs vulnerably, even if that means it leads
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: to rejection and abandonment. Yeah, you're not really emotionally available.
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: You're not. And it's so sad because I think they
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: think that they are.
• 18:26
  Speaker 3: Oh yeah, they're like, I'm meeting your every need. How
• 18:29
  Speaker 3: is this not showing you how much I love you?
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like, no, you're really just fawning all the time.
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: You're really just and suffocating. You're just really enslaved in
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: this relationship and your Yeah, you can be suffocating.
• 18:42
  Speaker 3: It's so sad. It is and I've seen it just play.
• 18:45
  Speaker 3: I've seen that dynamic play out just right in front
• 18:47
  Speaker 3: of my eyes. And I think this is why this
• 18:50
  Speaker 3: episode just really hits with me even more so than
• 18:54
  Speaker 3: the fearful avoidant, even though I feel so relatable to
• 18:58
  Speaker 3: the fearful avoidant watching my son.
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: Do you ever think your son, if he was with
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: the DA would.
• 19:04
  Speaker 3: Like potentially, like I've questioned, a little bit more different,
• 19:07
  Speaker 3: be a little more fa I have question.
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: That's why if he if he was with an AP,
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: like if he met an AP, if he would be
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: avoidant and we would really see that he's feelingful and well.
• 19:16
  Speaker 3: And that's why I asked you in the last episode
• 19:18
  Speaker 3: that first question, like if it you know, if you're
• 19:22
  Speaker 3: young and in your first romantic relationship and you have
• 19:25
  Speaker 3: these behaviors of like I have.
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: Had an opportunity to show avoidance because his partner's more
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: avoidant than him. Yeah, for sure. So sure, maybe he's
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: just an extreme anxious.
• 19:34
  Speaker 2: Fa Yeah, it looks very possible.
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: And that's the thing about fas is they can look
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: very ap or they can look very day so it
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: can be confusing, makes sense. So I think we just
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: maybe we have to see how things play out with him.
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, I mean, you know, he's nineteen, so.
• 19:50
  Speaker 3: My hope for growth. Yeah, my hope is that he'll
• 19:52
  Speaker 3: he will figure it out. And it might be that
• 19:55
  Speaker 3: pain is his lesson and mean.
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: Is the best teacher if you you let it be,
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: if you use it. Pain is the best teacher if
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: you let it be. If you ignore it or just
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: stay victimhood and either band aid it or suppress it,
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: you're gonna repeat it. Yeah, you have to do the
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: work from it and allow it to be the catalyst
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: that makes you grow.
• 20:19
  Speaker 3: Oh, rock Bottom, as much as it sucked, I'm so
• 20:23
  Speaker 3: grateful for my rock Bottom.
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: I wouldn't be here today.
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: I would be here without my rock Bottom.
• 20:27
  Speaker 2: No, neither one of us would be. That's every time I.
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: Level up, life punches me in the face right beforehand,
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: like a big fat, just fat little black guy.
• 20:36
  Speaker 2: You have been functioned in the face quite a bit.
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: What is it with that? I don't know. It is
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: because I have a mission from God and the devil
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: just really doesn't want it to be.
• 20:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I do, I mean, I genuinely do.
• 20:47
  Speaker 3: I think that that the devil will always get in
• 20:50
  Speaker 3: the way of God's missions and that's why you can't
• 20:54
  Speaker 3: let it.
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you can't let it.
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: No, you're right. This podcast is partially brought to you
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: by the Verified app. Verified is the first relationship registry
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: that aims to make cheating impossible. You should get on
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: the app, register your partner and know that you are
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: protected from cheating. But speaking of not letting something, the
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: ap does not let people breathe. They don't they don't
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: give up. They are the energizer bunny of attachment and
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: their they're addicted because intermittent reinforcement creates addiction. So they
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: learn to be addicted to attention, affection, attivement in childhood
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: and they just carry that right into their adult relationships.
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: And they get so much of their self worth from
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: someone loving them. You know, to be alone or single
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: to them is to be abandoned, to be unworthy, right, And.
• 21:52
  Speaker 3: That's so sad, and they have a huge needs bucket,
• 21:55
  Speaker 3: huge all the love languages, they want them all.
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: All the time. If their partner isn't giving them reassurance,
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: they're scared. It's just like this. It's this bottomless pit
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: where all the reassurance in the world isn't going to
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: soothe a wound that the other person isn't capable of fixing.
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: They have to fix it, and they think, oh, but
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: if I just get the right type of love, I'll
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: be Okay. This is going to happen all the time.
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: And then you're going to push secure people are aren't
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: gonna want to be with you because you're gonna love
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: bomb them and you're going to mother them and suffocate them,
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: and they're going to get icked out pretty pretty quickly.
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: And then avoidant people are going to constantly be pulling
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: away from you that are also simultaneously going to probably
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: be attracted to you at the same time, at least
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: the beginning.
• 22:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah, the f is like, Oh, this person's messed up.
• 22:48
  Speaker 3: I like that.
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I love messed up people. There more messed up,
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: the better Listen to the last episode on the F
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: a ifyone know more about that?
• 22:56
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, Oh the precious though ap I can't help.
• 22:59
  Speaker 2: But just again, just my heart, the ones that I so.
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: Warm and open they are in terms of like just
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: their disposition, not open in terms of vulnerability in a relationship,
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: open in just terms of their you know, disposition. They'll
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: always say hi, They'll always want to have a.
• 23:15
  Speaker 3: Chat, just and they deeply just want your acceptance, you know.
• 23:19
  Speaker 3: I mean that's the thing I see mostly in JP's
• 23:21
  Speaker 3: He just deeply wants everyone's acceptance.
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: Yes, but they don't know who they are. They don't
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: know who they are, Yeah, they don't. I know.
• 23:31
  Speaker 2: It breaks my heart.
• 23:32
  Speaker 3: You know. There's been moments that I've wanted him to
• 23:35
  Speaker 3: it feels like a coaching session for me or my son,
• 23:37
  Speaker 3: but for my son. But you know, I've wanted him
• 23:39
  Speaker 3: to get mad. I've wanted him to show just big
• 23:42
  Speaker 3: emotions and he he never really has. And so and
• 23:48
  Speaker 3: I know that it's like it's not like a DA, right,
• 23:50
  Speaker 3: A DA won't show those emotions.
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: Because they don't really have them, right, because there's.
• 23:53
  Speaker 2: Just right, but you can sense that they're there.
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, he's in a flight respects. He wants to say it,
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: but he's holding it in because he's scared. If he
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: does say it, it leads to abandonment, right, So they hold
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: it in. They are the kings and queens of the
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: flight response, which is holding in emotions while simultaneously feeling anxious,
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: holding it in. It's just the AP is feeling that
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: whole thing in deeply, and the DA is not even
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: associated with it. They're they're walled it off.
• 24:23
  Speaker 2: Gosh, it's so interesting the aps in my life that
• 24:25
  Speaker 2: I know. Oh gosh, I can.
• 24:29
  Speaker 3: I can hug them and feel exactly what you divorce.
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: Yes, it's sad, Yeah, gosh, how like I.
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: Want to look at him like, you know, just let
• 24:40
  Speaker 2: that shit go. Release.
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: They need to develop a relationship to themselves. They have
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: no relationship to themselves. They're actually avoidant in the relationship
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: to themselves. And you know, they have a very positive
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: view of other people and a negative view of themselves.
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: And that's really sad. That is sad.
• 25:03
  Speaker 3: And some time I thought the DA was the saddest.
• 25:05
  Speaker 3: I'm thinking the AP is. It's they are sad. Yeah,
• 25:09
  Speaker 3: it's hard, and I don't know why I don't think
• 25:11
  Speaker 3: the FA, Like obviously the FA is the most complex,
• 25:14
  Speaker 3: but like I don't look at the FA and like,
• 25:16
  Speaker 3: maybe it's because I am one and you're like, I
• 25:20
  Speaker 3: look at the other two and like I can really
• 25:22
  Speaker 3: empathize with the DA and really like but even more
• 25:25
  Speaker 3: so with the AP.
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: I think fas maybe we're biased because that was our
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: attachment style, so we know it a little bit more
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: deeply and we can just empathize with the pain a
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: little bit more deeply. But I think fas show these
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: moments of capacity. A majority of them do show this,
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: these moments of capacity for real connection, whereas the APS
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: and the DA's just it's like not there ever. Yeah,
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: you know, fas just sabotage it with their pain, but
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: it's there. Yeah, That's what I always feel like. It's
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: so much easier to get an FA to be secure
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: than it is the they're attachment styles. And again maybe
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: I'm just biased, but they're just more aware fas in general,
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: maybe not that subset of the FADA that I was
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: talking about in the last podcast, but it's like I
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: have to start at this just baseline level of awareness,
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: and then they're so much more reluctant to hold tight right,
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: Like I can tell an anxious, preoccupied do not text
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: your ex happy birthday. Do not do it. That is
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: the worst thing you can possibly do. You are in
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: a no contact for a reason. You're here to focus
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: on yourself. Don't do it. It looks desperate. You just
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: want to window in, be real with yourself. And then
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: they'll come back next session and be like I did it,
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: Like an f A will be like I figured, I'm straw,
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: I didn't.
• 26:45
  Speaker 2: Do it, ideas like I don't care to do it.
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: And I was like, but I ever text my unless
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: we're fantasizing about their ex and intomch syndrome. No, but
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: an AP like they just won't take my ad like
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: they are the least likely to take my advice. I
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: feel like because they can't beat their anxiety.
• 27:05
  Speaker 2: So where do they start?
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: What do they do? I mean acceptance that they're addicted.
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: Like it's almost like you have to have atdict level acceptance,
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: like people are heroin and you can't just do a
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: little bit of heroin. You have to I think every
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: AP in order to heal, has to have a significant
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: period of being single. And if they're married and they
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: can't do that, they have to work very very hard
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: on creating an independent life within their marriage. That is
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: a huge part of healing obviously all of the other things,
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: learning to actually process emotions instead of just seek corregulation
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: and band aid every emotion they have. Obviously they have
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: to develop that metacognitive and self monitoring capability, but really
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: the behavioral conditioning has to be developing an independent life
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: and being truly okay outside of their partner.
• 27:59
  Speaker 3: Yeah, because I think that they at times, from my observation,
• 28:06
  Speaker 3: they'll try, but they're not really enjoying themselves.
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: No, they're not at all. They're wishing they were with
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: their partner. And I can relate to that. I mean,
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: I denied my own avoidance for a really long time,
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: and I was such an anxious fay that I really
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: did look ap And when I went into my own healing,
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: I was like, I'm going to work on both attachment
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: styles because I have both attachment styles. I'm so ape
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: that I you know, but I had these. I could
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: recognize that I had some avoidance. But even in my avoidance,
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: I was.
• 28:38
  Speaker 2: Anxious interesting yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: Even in my avoidance, I was anxious, meaning I could
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: push people away, but I was anxious the whole time.
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: Because remember, attachment is determined by the behavior and not
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: the feeling. So when I said all my healing, I
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: was like, I'm just gonna I'm gonna take both strategies.
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna dig into anxious preoccupied, I'm to dig into
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: fearful avoidance because I was just so ridable anxiety. I
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: was desperate to help myself. But you know, I just
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: got to really know through my clients and through coaching
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: that so many fas can look AP. But I always
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: say aps will either stand still or come closer. They'll
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: either freeze and stand still, which means they're not moving
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: away from their partner, or they'll actively come closer to partner.
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: FA's will actively, at times move away by choice from
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: their partner by choice, whether that's out of protest or
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: out of overwhelm or out of hurt, they will move
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: actively move away. The AP is like I will stand
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: here and do nothing for the rest of time, or
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: I will pursue you. The FA actually does push away
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: at moments. They'll have a moment or two, even if
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: it's small, they'll throw their hands up and be like,
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: I can't do this anymore. Right, APS like really never
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: do that unless they have somebody else lined up, or
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: it's just so so so so so so so bad,
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: like beyond bad.
• 29:53
  Speaker 3: Do you ever see two anxious people together, like really really?
• 29:56
  Speaker 3: I mean, obviously I know the fas have an a.
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: It's very rare because again, we're attracted to the people
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: who have traits in which we inherently suppress. But I
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: knew a couple who was really good friends with my
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: first husband who they are high school sweethearts, and I
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: would probably classify them as both kind of ap like
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: way of each other's butt ap like just and it works,
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: I mean, but they never had another relationship either, right,
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: so I.
• 30:22
  Speaker 3: Could see where it would work because they're both just
• 30:25
  Speaker 3: constantly of each other.
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: It just usually doesn't get off the ground because we're
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: usually attracted to people that will fulfill our wounds, right,
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: Like I said, wound's your self fulfilling prophecy. So it's
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: less likely that you would be attracted to somebody who
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: had the same trait doesn't make you try to earn
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: love and doesn't fulfill that wound of abandonment. That's why
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: we see anxious people and avoidant people getting together.
• 30:52
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's why you're in business, baby, because yeah, there was.
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: You know, Yeah, I think that's a great place.
• 30:57
  Speaker 2: Yes, well, guys, listen.
• 31:00
  Speaker 3: If you rn ap, anxious, preoccupied, or you know an
• 31:03
  Speaker 3: anxious preoccupied in your life, please check out doctor Hensley
• 31:07
  Speaker 3: at the lovedoc dot com or soon to be the
• 31:10
  Speaker 3: doctor Sarah hens doctor Sarah Hinsley dot com. Obviously, you
• 31:14
  Speaker 3: can follow her on all social media handles at doctor
• 31:16
  Speaker 3: Sarah Hensley. Again, I'm not gonna get tired of saying this,
• 31:21
  Speaker 3: maybe for a little while, but we're in our new studio, yes, beautiful.
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: Check us out on YouTube, Yeah, studio, see what you think.
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: It's very different.
• 31:28
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's very totally different, Hollywood, our last one tell
• 31:32
  Speaker 3: different colors.
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: Colors.
• 31:34
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and we'll take well, we need to take y'all
• 31:37
  Speaker 3: like on a grand tour, you know, through the whole place,
• 31:41
  Speaker 3: because we worked our asses off, okay, like like but
• 31:45
  Speaker 3: in tears.
• 31:46
  Speaker 2: Oh my god.
• 31:47
  Speaker 3: Like eventually I was here so much there for a
• 31:50
  Speaker 3: little while that I'd come here and I'd be like,
• 31:52
  Speaker 3: I hate it here.
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: And when we would clean and then we ended up
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: having to do another project and there would be drywall
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: dust everywhere, and.
• 32:00
  Speaker 3: Then we'd clean again and again and again, and then
• 32:03
  Speaker 3: we'd paint something and we'd be like, well, maybe we should.
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: It needs another coat.
• 32:07
  Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, it's been a labor of love, but so
• 32:10
  Speaker 3: worth it. And of course this is all for you guys,
• 32:12
  Speaker 3: because we love you all and we wouldn't be here
• 32:14
  Speaker 3: without you all if you didn't continue to tune in
• 32:16
  Speaker 3: and listen to us, you know, talk about all this
• 32:19
  Speaker 3: interesting stuff. So wrap it up, wrap it up, wrap
• 32:22
  Speaker 3: it up, Wrap it up, Raina.
• 32:25
  Speaker 2: I know, I'm sorry, guys, I do ramble on.
• 32:28
  Speaker 3: But anyway, so go check out Doctor Hensley follow us
• 32:31
  Speaker 3: on social media. You can also follow our personal page,
• 32:34
  Speaker 3: The Doctor Sarah Hensley Show and until next time, peace,
• 32:37
  Speaker 3: love and perspective.