Latest / True Crime and Wine Time / S6 E7 Frozen Fear - The Butcher Baker of Alaska - Robert Hansen Part 3

Transcript

S6 E7 Frozen Fear - The Butcher Baker of Alaska - Robert Hansen Part 3 · True Crime and Wine Time

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: Welcome to True Crime and Wine Time.
• 0:03
  Speaker 2: I'm Terry and I'm Lama.
• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Tonight we are uncorking the truth why one of the
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: darkest crimes and breaking it down together with you.
• 0:13
  Speaker 2: One case, one conversation, and one or maybe two glasses
• 0:17
  Speaker 2: of wine. It's taking a job. It's time to get
• 0:20
  Speaker 2: comfortable and double check those locks before we just learned.
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: So let's take a sip and dive in.
• 0:43
  Speaker 2: Hello. Hello, fancy seeing you here. I know, I just
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: let my dogs out, and it's so foggy outside right now,
• 0:52
  Speaker 2: is it? Yes? You out? Doesn't it creepy?
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• 1:00
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• 1:02
  Speaker 2: me of Stephen King's The Mist.
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: But you know what, we're here on a Tuesday again,
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: we are.
• 1:13
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• 1:17
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• 1:19
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• 1:20
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• 1:23
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• 1:28
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• 1:30
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• 1:35
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• 2:46
  Speaker 1: Yes, Hi Buffy, Hi Buffy. Now, guys, before I ask
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: Lama to tell us what we're getting into tonight, I
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: need to give a warning to everybody. Lama went down
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: the rabbit hole. I okay, she found the rabbit hole,
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: she fell down the rabbit hole, she crawled out of
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: the rabbit hole, and she went back down into the
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: rabbit hole.
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: That's exactly what happens, and this.
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: Is where we are today. So now that I've explained
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: that we are down the Lama rabbit hole, what was
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: what we're covering tonight?
• 3:28
  Speaker 2: Okay? Well, let's started off as a one maybe two
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: parter episode has now turned into a multi part series,
• 3:38
  Speaker 2: a lot of parts that we're going to use something
• 3:40
  Speaker 2: all of March. Talking about multi.
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: I think we're beyond MAULTI we are in massive amounts.
• 3:46
  Speaker 2: That's true. Terry put a limit on it, though, So
• 3:49
  Speaker 2: there is an end in sight, I suppose. But now
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: tonight is part one of our Frozen Fear the Butcher
• 3:55
  Speaker 2: Baker of Alaska series, where we are diving deep into
• 4:01
  Speaker 2: the infamous serial killer Robert Hanson, his endless number of
• 4:06
  Speaker 2: victims who we refuse to be forgotten, and how all
• 4:10
  Speaker 2: of it could have been stopped numerous times. That's why
• 4:14
  Speaker 2: I have so much to say in so many episodes,
• 4:17
  Speaker 2: because it is egregious and I thought I already knew
• 4:22
  Speaker 2: a lot about Robert Hanson, and to some degree I did.
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: What I didn't know about was the whole decade and
• 4:29
  Speaker 2: nonsense before, and that is what really got me into
• 4:36
  Speaker 2: a rabbit hole. And I got to tell you, the
• 4:38
  Speaker 2: state of Alaska has a lot blood on their hands
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: and we are definitely here to shine a light on it.
• 4:47
  Speaker 2: So warning there will be lots of rants and a
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: lot of cursey words, and you guys will probably have
• 4:55
  Speaker 2: them too, because it is absolulutely in furiating. It is
• 5:01
  Speaker 2: getting to end so and it just keeps going.
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: I'm like, oh my god, could we just stop already?
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: I mean, Alaska, shame on you.
• 5:15
  Speaker 2: Another reason why we wanted to do a multi part
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: series is there is an enormous amount of victims seventeen
• 5:21
  Speaker 2: that you can us do, all of them sex workers,
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: and you know they weren't treated like people. And we
• 5:31
  Speaker 2: felt that if we didn't take time to explain all
• 5:34
  Speaker 2: of those stories, all the stories of the unsolved, all
• 5:38
  Speaker 2: the stories of those who survived, then we were no
• 5:43
  Speaker 2: better than the investigators the Trooper.
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: All well deserved rabbit hole. It is a well deserved
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: rabbit hole.
• 5:54
  Speaker 2: Yes, it is well before we go into that story.
• 5:58
  Speaker 2: What are we drinking tonight?
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: I know, tonight, I'm drinking La Marca prosecco rose. It's
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: crash and refreshing with a brilliant coral pink color and
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: little bubbles, and it's got a romas and it does
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: to me smell like watermelons. It's one that I really like,
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: and I go too often. It doesn't taste like watermelons,
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: but I do smell watermelons.
• 6:28
  Speaker 2: Oh. Oh, well, tonight, I'm drinking Magic Hour tropical. Oh
• 6:35
  Speaker 2: it's green, so you can't see it. Tropical mescato, because
• 6:40
  Speaker 2: I know we're going to be in Alaska, so why
• 6:42
  Speaker 2: not have a little bit of warmness there, even though
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: a lot of our story takes place in the summertime.
• 6:48
  Speaker 2: But I read what their temperature is in the summertime,
• 6:51
  Speaker 2: and you would love it, Terry me. No, No, I
• 6:56
  Speaker 2: don't know, thank you. It's still too cold for me.
• 6:59
  Speaker 2: So that's what I chose for tonight. It's very good.
• 7:04
  Speaker 2: It's tropical, but not co coconut tropical, which is why
• 7:09
  Speaker 2: I usually don't trust things to these tropical.
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: So you don't like coconut. That is good for me
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: to know. I was just told a great drink to
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: try is Malibu rum and doctor pepper.
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, no, something about.
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: The coconut and the I don't drink doctor pepper.
• 7:28
  Speaker 2: But so I will never love Sawbots. Well, you have
• 7:30
  Speaker 2: come to the right place, because we are about ready
• 7:35
  Speaker 2: to get into it. We are. Are you guys ready
• 7:38
  Speaker 2: for perhaps some of the craziest stuff you've ever heard,
• 7:41
  Speaker 2: because it is to me, it's really astonishing.
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: So we're just going to give a warning now, but
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: we will give trigger warnings throughout the special series because
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: there's some hard parts.
• 7:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah, there is. I mean, we're talking about a massive
• 7:56
  Speaker 2: serial killer here. It's not a it's more than just
• 7:59
  Speaker 2: a ca that's true. Yeah, he's a predator of all sorts.
• 8:05
  Speaker 2: So you have come to the right place, saw Boss.
• 8:07
  Speaker 2: So let's get into a part one of our Frozen
• 8:12
  Speaker 2: Fear series. Okay. So, the history of Alaska is a
• 8:19
  Speaker 2: terrible and wonderful story of the contest between people and
• 8:23
  Speaker 2: their circumstances. From finding gold dividing the government, the Alaskan
• 8:29
  Speaker 2: people have struggled to leave its mark from one generation
• 8:33
  Speaker 2: to the next, through the many people that were born
• 8:36
  Speaker 2: here to the many that came from the lower forty eight.
• 8:39
  Speaker 2: The choices people make tell the stories. Some dishonorable, others heroic.
• 8:46
  Speaker 2: Some led us to destruction while others led us to honor.
• 8:52
  Speaker 2: Each life is a struggle of its own. Chapter by chapter,
• 8:56
  Speaker 2: choices are made, each character writing a page or two.
• 9:00
  Speaker 2: The story is told in the history books. The choosing
• 9:04
  Speaker 2: is our privilege and our responsibility, whether we want to
• 9:08
  Speaker 2: write it or not. The pen is in our hand.
• 9:11
  Speaker 2: It would be nice to see into the future, yet
• 9:14
  Speaker 2: not knowing keeps us going and growing. And that was
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: written by Manfred West in two thousand and seven, who
• 9:23
  Speaker 2: was the former prison roommate of Robert Hanson while he
• 9:27
  Speaker 2: was in the Hole in Seward, Alaska. And I just
• 9:30
  Speaker 2: thought that was an interesting way to open up the
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: series because that is exactly how I feel about this story.
• 9:39
  Speaker 2: It's a lot of darkness, a lot of heroes, a
• 9:43
  Speaker 2: lot of NATS heroes, and in all of the above,
• 9:46
  Speaker 2: high savage, high savage.
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: Lots of feelings coming for the series. Alaska is known
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: as the Last Frontier, a place where the wild is
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: supposed to be the greatest danger. What in the nineteen
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: seventies and early nineteen eighties, a different kind of shadow
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: was moving through the streets of Anchorage, Alaska and across
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: the river banks.
• 10:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Now imagine you're running, okay, your feet there and
• 10:19
  Speaker 2: getting torn up from stumbling over moss, tree roots, and
• 10:24
  Speaker 2: the thick Alaskan bush behind you. There's nothing but miles
• 10:29
  Speaker 2: of inebitted in hebit. Oh my gosh, I can't say
• 10:35
  Speaker 2: had wilderness everywhere? Okay, unlivable space, inhabitable. I know, right right,
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: I wrote the word.
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: I know you did.
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: My brain say it's a stupid anyway, All right, let's
• 10:51
  Speaker 2: start over there. We're not going to start all the
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: way over. But you're in the wilderness, okay, and you're
• 10:55
  Speaker 2: running all right. But what's scary as you are not
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: alone because somewhere in the tree line a man is
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: watching you through the scope of a two two twenty
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: three rifle. He isn't hunting moose, and he isn't hunting bear. No,
• 11:18
  Speaker 2: he is actually hunting you. And I also just want
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: to preface I did not start drinking the fresh. I
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: was literally just sported.
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: I was going to be kind and not asked, okay,
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: because I'm you know, I told you all this year
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: I'm trying to be kind because I was like Oh
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: my Godang mama sounds like me tonight.
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: I know what is that about. I'm so sorry, guys.
• 11:42
  Speaker 2: I tried to set the mood and it's okay, no, no,
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: not so much.
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: But sometimes the most terrifying thing isn't what we can see,
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: but what we refuse to notice. For years, women were
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: vanishing from the fringe of Anchorage society, leaving behind a
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: trail that seemed to lead nowhere where no one was looking.
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: That is until one brave woman managed to escape a
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: nightmare that changed everything.
• 12:18
  Speaker 2: So on June thirteenth, nineteen eighty three, at Merrillfield, a
• 12:23
  Speaker 2: small plane sat on the tarmac. Inside the car, crouched
• 12:27
  Speaker 2: in the back seat with her hands handcuffed in front
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: of her body, was seventeen year old Cindy Paulson. The
• 12:35
  Speaker 2: man that kidnapped and sexually abuse her was loading up
• 12:39
  Speaker 2: the cockpit. She knew that if she was put in
• 12:43
  Speaker 2: that plane, her chances of being found dropped to nearly zero. Ooh, terrifying.
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: It was bumps.
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: I'm like, wait, us start off right out of the
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: bat on this one.
• 12:55
  Speaker 2: Hi monkey bite, Hi monkey butt.
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: But then the unthinkable happened. That man who seems so
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: meticulous that everything he does turned his head, and those
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: quick few seconds was all that Cindy needed. She didn't hesitate,
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: and with her hands still bound by those metal cuffs,
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: she managed to open the door and hit the pavement running. Guys,
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: she wasn't thinking about the fact that she was barefoot
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: on the sharp gravel. She was running for her life
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: toward the nearby traffic on Sixth Avenue.
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: Think about the sheer adrenaline Cindy must have had at
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: that moment, you know, to onlookers, she would have looked
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: like some frantic and disheveled silhouettes against the morning light,
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: you know, and she was like waving her bound hands
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: and intent to get one of them to stop. And
• 13:55
  Speaker 2: I just I couldn't imagine seeing that sight on my
• 13:57
  Speaker 2: way to work, Like.
• 14:00
  Speaker 3: I can't.
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: I the trauma from being Cindy and the trauma foreseeing
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: that is just I can't. Robert Yacht was on his
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: way to work, staring in shock at a girl who
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: looked like she just escaped a nightmare. He quickly pulled
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: over and let her in. Thank you, Robert. As Cindy
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: climbed into the safety of Yon's truck, she looked back.
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: That's a good Robert. In this story, that is a
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: good one. You'll find there are some other not so
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: good ones, in one in particular Robert Hanson. But now
• 14:40
  Speaker 2: the man who kidnapped her wasn't running after her or
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: shouting for her. Instead, he simply stood there watching as
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: Young and Cindy drove away. And he realized his secret
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: had just walked out into the light of day, and
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: so he calmly turned and disappeared completely from her view. Okay,
• 15:09
  Speaker 2: just thinking how awful that is.
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: He thinks he's safe because he's a respectable member of
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: the community. He thinks his word will hold more weight
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: than hers, and sadly, guys, for a while he's right.
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: But the clock has finally started tip ticking on the
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: Butcher Baker.
• 15:36
  Speaker 2: Now, Robert Young drove Cindy to the mush in and
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: as soon as they arrived, she leaped out of his
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: truck and ran inside. She was in survival mode, obviously
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: desperate to find a phone and reach her boyfriend who
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: was really hurt. Pimp at the big Timber motel. Y,
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: realizing the gravity oh what he just witnessed, Well, he
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: went to his job and did the one thing that
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: changed the course of history. He called the police because guys, remember,
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: we didn't have cell phones.
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: Back then like we do today. The Anchorage Police Department
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: initially missed Cindy at the first hotel, but they did
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: manage to track her down to the Big Timber Motel.
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: I love the names of their hotels.
• 16:32
  Speaker 2: I love then of their hotels too, but that is
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: that name does not match that hotel.
• 16:37
  Speaker 3: It does not.
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: It is all right. I was a little like, really,
• 16:41
  Speaker 2: that's I was thinking like a log cabin or Yeah, agreed.
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: But I like the name, but the building doesn't match
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: the name.
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: Could use some work.
• 16:51
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: Now, but when they pushed opened the door to Room
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: one tent, there was Cindy alone and still wearing the
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: heavy metal handcuffs that marked her as a prisoner.
• 17:04
  Speaker 2: Oh now, Officer Greg Baker was one of the first
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: on the scene, and he didn't need a bolt cutter
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: or a saw. Instead, he reached for a universal key
• 17:16
  Speaker 2: and with a simple click, the handcuffs fell away. It
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: said that the moment the cuffs hit the floor, the
• 17:24
  Speaker 2: hysteria that had been fueling Cindy's flight finally broke. She
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: calmed down, looked at the officers and began to weave
• 17:34
  Speaker 2: a very dark tail.
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: I can't imagine that moment when they fell to the
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: floor and just everything in you. I mean, think about it,
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: you just yeah, oh yeah. It started on a Friday morning,
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: around four a m. A man pulled up in a
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: metallic green buick century. He rolled down the window, and Cindy,
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: looking for change for a cigarette machine, approached him. He
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: seemed like a pretty good guy, and he showed her
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: a wallet thick with cash, and he gave her a
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: five dollar bill and told her his name was Don.
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: He said he wanted some company but had to work
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: that night, so Cindy gave him her number at the
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: Big Timber Motel. They made an appointment for Saturday night,
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: but Cindy overslept, and another story that misconnection might have
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: been a stroke of luck. In this story, it was
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: sadly just a delay.
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: So Sunday night, around eleven pm, the green buick returned.
• 18:51
  Speaker 2: Cindy recognized the man immediately. He was short, buck toothed,
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: with was she described as frog warts on his face.
• 19:01
  Speaker 2: He was dressed like a typical Alaskan outdoorsman, you know,
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: jeans of blad shirts and tanks, and dark brown boats.
• 19:12
  Speaker 2: But let's hear about this full interaction with Cindy's own words.
• 19:19
  Speaker 3: The gentleman my telephone number and asked him to call me,
• 19:23
  Speaker 3: and he had called me, and I slipped through it.
• 19:26
  Speaker 3: You know, I was supposed to meet him. So the
• 19:28
  Speaker 3: next thing, this was Sunday, I was corner fit sim
• 19:34
  Speaker 3: Danelly and the gentleman he rode by and holding parking
• 19:38
  Speaker 3: look and offering me. You know, I got in the
• 19:40
  Speaker 3: car voluntarily, was starting with this man. And he offered
• 19:44
  Speaker 3: me two hundred dollars for a little job in the car,
• 19:48
  Speaker 3: and I said, fine, no problem, and he pulled over
• 19:52
  Speaker 3: to the side by side of the house, and I
• 19:55
  Speaker 3: proceeded to give him a little job. And after I
• 20:00
  Speaker 3: had got a condom mind, oh wait, I kept doing it.
• 20:08
  Speaker 3: And then he kept going around my neck like he
• 20:12
  Speaker 3: was just tripping, playing around my neck and my necklaces,
• 20:17
  Speaker 3: and uh, he had cuffed one of my hands and
• 20:21
  Speaker 3: I was trying to get loose, and he pulled out
• 20:23
  Speaker 3: a gun and it had got my other handcuffed. I
• 20:29
  Speaker 3: don't know how he did just from fightening because I
• 20:33
  Speaker 3: didn't really, I thought, but not a lot because I
• 20:36
  Speaker 3: knew like he needed to do something, and he took
• 20:40
  Speaker 3: me to his house, and little Barbera wrote, mall doom.
• 20:48
  Speaker 2: Yes, Pam, she is only seventeen, seventeen years old. Mm hmm.
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: He offered her two hundred dollars for a blow job
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: in the car. I don't know what the going rate
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: is for those I'm just gonna be honest, I don't,
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: but that's almost six hundred and fifty dollars in today's moneys. Yeah,
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: I mean, according to the goog that's a pretty high price,
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: especially in the early eighties, right, I mean, that's a
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: lot of money, and I can see how that as
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: an offer. Guess that would be hard to turn down,
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: which is exactly what the man was banking on.
• 21:34
  Speaker 2: Sure was now. As the man pointed a large, long
• 21:38
  Speaker 2: barreled revolver with a brown handle directly at her face,
• 21:43
  Speaker 2: he told her, don't cause no problems and I won't
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: hurt you. He drove her toward the Muldoon area. Dawn
• 21:51
  Speaker 2: thought he was in control, but he didn't realize that
• 21:55
  Speaker 2: he kidnapped a girl who was already building a map
• 21:58
  Speaker 2: to lead the police back to his door, and Cindy
• 22:02
  Speaker 2: kept her eyes wide open.
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: Sidy good job.
• 22:11
  Speaker 3: Dry, and I observed everything because this wasn't kicking away.
• 22:17
  Speaker 3: I knew I was in trumple and it really really
• 22:23
  Speaker 3: there's agents make it.
• 22:28
  Speaker 2: I'm so right she was.
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: She noted the turns, she saw an ominous dead endsign.
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: She memorized the house on Old Harbor Road, a blue
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: house with a massive picture window and a garage on
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: the left.
• 22:48
  Speaker 2: But the detail that stuck.
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: In her mind, the detail that would eventually help the
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: police find him, was on the roof. There were antlers, massive,
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: big old antler horns mounted right on the house.
• 23:07
  Speaker 2: He then pulled the buick into the garage, hidden from
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: the street because of course, and Cindy saw another car
• 23:15
  Speaker 2: in the driveway, an older cream colored bat Sun station wagon,
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: and she was being ushered into the butcher baker's layer. Now,
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: as the man guided her into his basement, she realized
• 23:32
  Speaker 2: he didn't just take her into a house. He took
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: her into a museum of death.
• 23:40
  Speaker 3: The horns that were up there, the big ol' antler
• 23:42
  Speaker 3: horns and squalls that was everywhere in the hole in
• 23:46
  Speaker 3: the base.
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: There was fish, There was.
• 23:48
  Speaker 3: Wolf, skins, the stuffed animals everywhere, big like cariboo and goat.
• 23:57
  Speaker 3: Hit biggle and stuff there ducks, beaters, coattheads.
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: How dare he?
• 24:08
  Speaker 2: It was actually like sheep in ramps. Okay, I feel
• 24:12
  Speaker 2: much better because I don't know if that makes it better.
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: It just doesn't make it better. But he was a
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: trophy hunter, but it wasn't just an animal trophies. Cindy
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: realized she was in a fortress. Guys, the windows were
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: covered with black curtains, but as they flat, she saw
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: they were barred with bulletproof wires.
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: Again, she's only seventeen. Seventeen doesn't know the it doesn't
• 24:40
  Speaker 2: the right turns, but she knew what they meant.
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: She knew it meant that she was in trouble because
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: she wasn't just in a room. She was in a cage. Okay,
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: let's listen to more from Cindy about what occurred next.
• 25:00
  Speaker 3: Downstairs. And then he had a dog, a black dog,
• 25:03
  Speaker 3: and another dog tants and he can't. I was handcuffed
• 25:08
  Speaker 3: the whole time, and he brought a chair room, and
• 25:13
  Speaker 3: he kept telling me, you know, if I co operate
• 25:15
  Speaker 3: and you won't hurt me, And he handcuffed the shirt first,
• 25:23
  Speaker 3: and then he had changed the hand and handcuffed me
• 25:26
  Speaker 3: to the bottom of the other chairt and had my
• 25:28
  Speaker 3: neck tied with a room to the coffee table and
• 25:32
  Speaker 3: laid me on a brick screw up. And I was
• 25:34
  Speaker 3: on my period at the time, and I had a
• 25:36
  Speaker 3: tampon in my room. And then he had sex with
• 25:39
  Speaker 3: me with no other and then KA can't tell him,
• 25:45
  Speaker 3: you calm, you know, but if i'd be okay, she
• 25:48
  Speaker 3: won't hurt me. And then after that I went to
• 25:53
  Speaker 3: use the bathroom and he wasn't yet, and I was
• 25:58
  Speaker 3: handcuffed the whole time and I wasn't. She told me
• 26:05
  Speaker 3: to go back in and I have heard changed that
• 26:08
  Speaker 3: rot and that came out. You can laid a little
• 26:14
  Speaker 3: bed down for my over my yeah, try, I can
• 26:23
  Speaker 3: come a bit. Was it five hours?
• 26:30
  Speaker 2: Sorry? I know those are really hard to hear, but
• 26:34
  Speaker 2: we felt that using her own voice to explain what
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: happened really shows the humanity that was happening, like that
• 26:45
  Speaker 2: existed that so many people ignored because of what she
• 26:50
  Speaker 2: did for her living or whatever. So I know those
• 26:54
  Speaker 2: are hard to hear, but I can't think of a
• 26:57
  Speaker 2: better person to be saying them right honestly. But so
• 27:01
  Speaker 2: if you missed any part of that to break her spirit.
• 27:04
  Speaker 2: Hanson used a method of absolute control on her. You
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: tied a rope around her neck, leading her like an animal,
• 27:13
  Speaker 2: even when she went to the bathroom. He eventually chained
• 27:17
  Speaker 2: her to a post in the basement using a screw
• 27:20
  Speaker 2: in plant hook and a padlock, and as she lay
• 27:24
  Speaker 2: on the floor, she spotted a very chilling detail a
• 27:29
  Speaker 2: bullet hole in the post just two inches above the floor,
• 27:34
  Speaker 2: and it was a silent warning to her of what
• 27:38
  Speaker 2: happened to those who didn't cooperate.
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: Even in the midst of sexual assault and terror, Cindy
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: was thinking three steps ahead. She was on her period
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: at the time, and she intentionally kept her Tampa in saying,
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: if I got out of there, he was getting caught.
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: I needed evidence, and that was my evidence.
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, she believed it would preserve DNA, which is a
• 28:13
  Speaker 2: very sophisticated thought for a terrified teenager in nineteen eighty three,
• 28:17
  Speaker 2: because that just wasn't it was still new. It was
• 28:21
  Speaker 2: like the fact that she even was like, yes, like
• 28:25
  Speaker 2: they didn't have all the shows that we have today
• 28:29
  Speaker 2: at that time, talking in forensics as well, learn as
• 28:32
  Speaker 2: we tell this story, were about non existent. But she
• 28:37
  Speaker 2: was already building the case that would hang him before
• 28:40
  Speaker 2: she even knew if she'd survive the night, which is
• 28:44
  Speaker 2: just remarkable.
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: Quite frankly es six, I don't have words for it
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: because it's it's amazing.
• 28:52
  Speaker 2: But after.
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: Raping her on a bear skin rug, Hanson did something
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: that defies normal human logic. He didn't panic, he didn't
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: worry about being caught. He sat on his couch and
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: took a fucking nap, yeah, telling Cindy not to wake
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: him up because he'd be mad. Oh wow, sorry for
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: the language, but he didn't give two shits.
• 29:32
  Speaker 2: Okay, well, no, that's that's fine. Sorry, I was reading
• 29:35
  Speaker 2: annoying this. That's fine, don't worry about it. Then there
• 29:38
  Speaker 2: she was changed to a post for five hours as
• 29:42
  Speaker 2: she had to watch the man who violated her sleep
• 29:46
  Speaker 2: and stare at the bullet hole in the floor like, oh,
• 29:51
  Speaker 2: that'd be like the longest five hours ever. Yeah, And
• 29:56
  Speaker 2: when he woke up, he became very talkative. He sat
• 30:00
  Speaker 2: and stared at her as she started crying, which is
• 30:03
  Speaker 2: just it blows my mind. It blows my mind that
• 30:09
  Speaker 2: that is somebody what they would do.
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: Like, yeah, he told her, don't worry about it. You know,
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: everything is going to be okay, I'm not gonna hurt you,
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: which might have been reassuring if he didn't then tell
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: her there had been seven other girls before her.
• 30:40
  Speaker 2: Spoiler, it was more.
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: WTF. He said they usually stayed a week, a phrase
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: that many believe, including Cindy, was his euphemism for murder.
• 30:59
  Speaker 2: Now. Sinday played a lot and acted like she wanted
• 31:01
  Speaker 2: to go with him, but she also thought he was
• 31:05
  Speaker 2: just telling her this so she wouldn't be scared. She
• 31:09
  Speaker 2: wasn't sure if he was going to kill her right
• 31:12
  Speaker 2: there in the basement or shoot her and push her
• 31:15
  Speaker 2: out of the plane. Either way, she knew her clock
• 31:19
  Speaker 2: was ticking. He told her that even if she did
• 31:23
  Speaker 2: tell anyone about what had happened to her, that he'll
• 31:26
  Speaker 2: have an alibi because his friends will say he was
• 31:30
  Speaker 2: at the lake with them. And that is a picture
• 31:32
  Speaker 2: of his creepy ass basement.
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: It is a creepy ass basement.
• 31:39
  Speaker 3: It is.
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah. He explained his twisted why he felt he was
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: being cheated by the commercial nature of the streets. It's
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: all about him. He had worked the slopes and he
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: was I'm tired of paying for ten minutes of a
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: woman's time.
• 32:03
  Speaker 2: Sounds like a ham problem.
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: He decided he was going to start getting his money's
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: worth by taking them to his house and doing whatever
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: he pleased. And in his mind, this wasn't just a crime,
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: it was a business correction, sir.
• 32:29
  Speaker 2: Now, after hours of captivity captivity, the man decided it
• 32:34
  Speaker 2: was time for the final phase of this summertime project
• 32:39
  Speaker 2: he liked to call it. He loaded Cindy into the
• 32:42
  Speaker 2: back of his green buick, covered her with a blanket,
• 32:45
  Speaker 2: and gave her a chilling ultimatum. Lay down, don't cause
• 32:50
  Speaker 2: no problems, because whoever sees you in my car, I'm
• 32:54
  Speaker 2: going to have to kill them and you.
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: More coercion and manipulation because she doesn't want to be
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: responsible for other people dying guys. But as they drove
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: towards Meryll Field, Cindy lay in the dark of the backseat.
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: Her mind was still racing. She thought about attacking him
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: with the very rope he used to tie her neck,
• 33:24
  Speaker 1: but she feared a high speed wreck, so she chose
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: to wait. She knew the layout of anchorage. She knew
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: that Meryl Filled was close to the big Timber motel.
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: She was waiting for the one sliver of opportunity that
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: she needed to break for it.
• 33:46
  Speaker 2: When they arrived at the airfield, Hansen began prepping his
• 33:50
  Speaker 2: aircraft like a hunter, preppering his gear, preparing his gear.
• 33:57
  Speaker 2: He moved back and forth between the trunk up the
• 34:00
  Speaker 2: car and the plane, carrying an airplane seat. It told
• 34:05
  Speaker 2: Cindy he had to install it so he could chain
• 34:08
  Speaker 2: her inside the aircraft. But then.
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: Hansen made a fatal mistake. He set his revolver on
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: the roof of the car and walked back to the plane. Cindy,
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: who was ever observant, was watching from the back seat.
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: She saw her opening. She could only see him from
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: the waist down as he tinkered with the aircraft, but
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: the driver's door was hanging open. She didn't hesitate, guys.
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: She threw off the blanket, kicked open the door, and
• 34:50
  Speaker 1: she ran.
• 34:52
  Speaker 2: She could hear the man who just spent hours brutalizing
• 34:56
  Speaker 2: her screaming I'm gonna get you as he chased her
• 34:59
  Speaker 2: with the gun. She didn't run toward the main road.
• 35:03
  Speaker 2: She knew he could catch her there, so she doubled back,
• 35:06
  Speaker 2: weaving through a car lod, ducking behind vehicles as she
• 35:11
  Speaker 2: saw him stalking her Finally she saw a white forward
• 35:15
  Speaker 2: truck and she jumped out and flagged it down, screaming
• 35:19
  Speaker 2: and hysterical. She doesn't have all of her clothes on either.
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: I know, I'm like just or she or any lady
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: and Gray, you are correct. She is a true hero.
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: She Yeah, she was an amazing and she's seventeen. Guys,
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: don't forget that. Okay, she is still a child in
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: my opinions. But the driver of that vehicle was terrified,
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: as one should be, when he saw the handcuffs and
• 35:54
  Speaker 1: the man with the gun chasing them. He panicked. He
• 35:58
  Speaker 1: wouldn't even stop at her motel, fearing that Hanson would
• 36:02
  Speaker 1: kill them both. He dropped her off near the mush
• 36:06
  Speaker 1: Inn and Sandy Sandy, Cindy's still in those handcuffs, finally
• 36:12
  Speaker 1: made it back to the safety of her hotel. She
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: had done the impossible. She had escaped the butcher Baker.
• 36:22
  Speaker 2: Now back at the Anchorage Police Department, she retold her
• 36:26
  Speaker 2: story to other investigators, including Anchorage Police Department investigator Bill Dennis.
• 36:34
  Speaker 2: First name that goes up on You're a piece of
• 36:37
  Speaker 2: shit list that we have going.
• 36:38
  Speaker 1: I know, I'm like, I try not to judge. Early
• 36:42
  Speaker 1: but Bill, I'm judging you.
• 36:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we'll just go ahead and on toil list spoilers here.
• 36:48
  Speaker 2: You're not gonna like Bill Dennis all right now. She
• 36:51
  Speaker 2: didn't just give a vague description of the man. She
• 36:55
  Speaker 2: gave them specifics. Okay. She described the acne scars on
• 36:59
  Speaker 2: his face, pointed out his crooked teeth, and how he
• 37:03
  Speaker 2: had a very distinct stutter in his voice. She described
• 37:07
  Speaker 2: his car, his house, and even the specific make of
• 37:12
  Speaker 2: his plane. She was essentially handing them a photograph in words,
• 37:17
  Speaker 2: and she thought to herself, surely with this much detail,
• 37:23
  Speaker 2: they have to believe me, right, Like, I mean, what more?
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: What you mean?
• 37:31
  Speaker 2: You know what? Pick you up? This saw what happened,
• 37:34
  Speaker 2: not saw everything that happened, but saw that something serious.
• 37:38
  Speaker 1: This is when I lost my mind. This is the
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: point where I lost my mind in the language, because
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: I'm like, what more do you want from her? Well,
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: Officer Baker eventually took Sorry, I think it's office or.
• 38:01
  Speaker 2: Dennis. No, no, no, Officer Baker. Oh it was Baker.
• 38:05
  Speaker 2: It was the other one.
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: Okay, sorry, Butcher Baker Baker. I like the name Baker
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: right now.
• 38:11
  Speaker 2: You like Officer Baker, but not Butcher bakercher Baker Okay.
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: Eventually took Cindy to the hospital for a medical examination
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: and a sexual assault kit. But as they drove past
• 38:26
  Speaker 1: Meryl Airfield, a plane took off in Cindy froze. She
• 38:32
  Speaker 1: pointed and said that the man they were looking for
• 38:35
  Speaker 1: was in that plane.
• 38:38
  Speaker 2: Now, while that specific aircraft wasn't his, the moment forced
• 38:44
  Speaker 2: the officers to stop and look, and right there, still
• 38:48
  Speaker 2: sitting on the tarmac, they found it. It was a
• 38:53
  Speaker 2: Piper PA eighteen super cub bush plane and registered under
• 38:59
  Speaker 2: the name Robert Hanson. Not only did they find the
• 39:03
  Speaker 2: man's plane, they found an eye witness, yes, another one.
• 39:09
  Speaker 2: A security guard saw the man who owned the plane
• 39:12
  Speaker 2: returned to his car and wrote down his license plate number.
• 39:17
  Speaker 2: Now sure enough if that car was registered too Robert Hanson.
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: So I mean it is just I'd be granted she
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: gave up a description of him, the house, the car.
• 39:32
  Speaker 2: Dam much more do you need?
• 39:34
  Speaker 1: How much more do you need? Cindy's medical examination did
• 39:40
  Speaker 1: confirm that she had been the victim of a severe
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: and a violent sexual assault. The doctor who did her
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: exam said he had never seen a more terrified patient
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: and that he abps a freaking lutely sorry, I added,
• 39:58
  Speaker 1: freakinglutely who believed everything Cindy told him? Guys, she has
• 40:03
  Speaker 1: brought the receipts.
• 40:05
  Speaker 2: Yes, now the physical evidence was now undeniable. The marks
• 40:11
  Speaker 2: on her body and the car and the plane on
• 40:14
  Speaker 2: the tarmac were proof that the monster she described was
• 40:18
  Speaker 2: very real and he was still out there now. The
• 40:23
  Speaker 2: only big issue for Cindy is that she was a
• 40:27
  Speaker 2: young sex worker and in the eyes of the legal
• 40:31
  Speaker 2: system of nineteen eighty three Anchorage, Alaska, in all of
• 40:35
  Speaker 2: the years before that, and she would be what some
• 40:40
  Speaker 2: considered an unreliable witness. You're gonna hear that word a lot, guys,
• 40:47
  Speaker 2: But it seemed as though this unreliable witness was the
• 40:52
  Speaker 2: most reliable person in the entire room. I mean, what
• 40:56
  Speaker 2: more could the cops really need to rest this guy
• 41:01
  Speaker 2: and put him behind bars at this point, I mean,
• 41:03
  Speaker 2: what else do you need?
• 41:04
  Speaker 1: I I'm speechless, because there is nothing else that you
• 41:11
  Speaker 1: need mm hm, well except forret to get off your
• 41:16
  Speaker 1: ass and do your job, because.
• 41:18
  Speaker 2: Buck up and turn this into a ten plus part series.
• 41:22
  Speaker 2: Because things happened the way they should.
• 41:25
  Speaker 1: We went from two episodes to seven to ten and
• 41:30
  Speaker 1: you'll find out. And it gets more ragy every time
• 41:34
  Speaker 1: you go in monkey butt. If you are still listening
• 41:38
  Speaker 1: after going down Lama's rabbit hole because you adore Lama.
• 41:42
  Speaker 1: You're not moving to Alaska with my dad. No, you're
• 41:47
  Speaker 1: moving your ass in here. Okay, it's no longer an option.
• 41:50
  Speaker 1: Alaska's off the table.
• 41:52
  Speaker 2: Just three not sorry.
• 41:53
  Speaker 1: Done. When the police finally pulled up the address Cindy
• 41:59
  Speaker 1: had described there, it was the blue house with big
• 42:04
  Speaker 1: antlers fastened on the roof. It was like a scene
• 42:09
  Speaker 1: from a horror movie where the monster turns out to
• 42:13
  Speaker 1: be your next door neighbor. They knocked and the door
• 42:19
  Speaker 1: was opened by a man who checked every single box
• 42:24
  Speaker 1: of Cindy's description, the scar's check, the teeth check, the
• 42:31
  Speaker 1: stutter check.
• 42:34
  Speaker 2: But Robert Hanson did in panic. He was very calm.
• 42:40
  Speaker 2: He was the bad Bob, the Baker, a man who
• 42:45
  Speaker 2: knew how to play the part of a well respected
• 42:48
  Speaker 2: local businessman somehow, even having a quite checkered, passed criminal past.
• 42:55
  Speaker 2: That is. Hansen, though, was so confident in his facade
• 43:00
  Speaker 2: that he actually invited the police to search his property
• 43:05
  Speaker 2: and his car.
• 43:06
  Speaker 1: M yep, sorry, I'm having Oh yeah, she tried for
• 43:14
  Speaker 1: twenty I told her to stop at eight guys, But
• 43:18
  Speaker 1: now that I'm in it and reading, I totally one
• 43:24
  Speaker 1: thousand percent agree we couldn't stop where we were because
• 43:28
  Speaker 1: we would be doing the same exact thing as Alaska
• 43:32
  Speaker 1: law enforcement did, and we want to be better. Okay,
• 43:37
  Speaker 1: But guys, here's the kicker. As you've already guessed, the
• 43:42
  Speaker 1: car match Cindy's description perfectly, right down to the trash
• 43:47
  Speaker 1: on the floorboards. Even the interior of his basement was
• 43:54
  Speaker 1: exactly as she described it. But there was a problem.
• 44:01
  Speaker 1: Law enforcement couldn't find a single smoking gun. Literally, they
• 44:07
  Speaker 1: couldn't find the firearm described and there was no physical
• 44:12
  Speaker 1: evidence in the house that undeniably tied her to that room.
• 44:18
  Speaker 2: A freaking gun, because.
• 44:21
  Speaker 1: You know, there's this massive wilderness that you can get
• 44:24
  Speaker 1: rid of them. There's water, yeah, yes, Bethy, absimilarity, yes yes.
• 44:36
  Speaker 2: And before the investigators left, he looked the officers in
• 44:40
  Speaker 2: the eye and gave them a seamless alibi. He claimed
• 44:45
  Speaker 2: he was with his friend John Summraw the evening night
• 44:48
  Speaker 2: before from five pm to five thirty pm fixing an
• 44:53
  Speaker 2: airplane seat, and then was with his other friend John
• 44:57
  Speaker 2: Henning from eleven thirty pm to five am, talking about
• 45:02
  Speaker 2: fishing and eating pizza as two grown men do through
• 45:08
  Speaker 2: the hours of eleven thirty pm to five am. Totally normal.
• 45:12
  Speaker 1: Now, if you're in college, maybe to plan of.
• 45:17
  Speaker 4: Fishing, that's ridiculous, Like, how don't you even believe that?
• 45:22
  Speaker 4: Who's how much do you had to plan for a
• 45:24
  Speaker 4: fishing trip at those hours? That's right to me, it's
• 45:30
  Speaker 4: pretty freaking obvious.
• 45:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Now, this sadly is just one of many infuriating
• 45:38
  Speaker 1: chapters in this story. Seriously, guys, As a matter of fact,
• 45:45
  Speaker 1: I think this is an excellent case study of how
• 45:49
  Speaker 1: institutional bias and the good old boy network can protect
• 45:54
  Speaker 1: a monster while gas lighting a survivor. It's perfect book.
• 46:01
  Speaker 1: You think a teenager running through the streets and handcuffs
• 46:05
  Speaker 1: describing a basement dungeon and a bushplane would be an
• 46:10
  Speaker 1: open and shut case.
• 46:13
  Speaker 2: But oh no, guys.
• 46:14
  Speaker 1: In nineteen eighty three Anchorage, Alaska, the scales of Justed
• 46:20
  Speaker 1: were heavily tilted.
• 46:23
  Speaker 2: Now inside the police department, a war was brewing at
• 46:28
  Speaker 2: this point. On one side was Officer Greg Baker, who
• 46:34
  Speaker 2: he had seen Cindy's hysteria and he very much believed her.
• 46:39
  Speaker 2: On the other side was investigator Bill Dennis, who didn't
• 46:44
  Speaker 2: really see a survivor. No, Instead, he saw a transaction
• 46:50
  Speaker 2: gone wrong because of course you did, Bill, of.
• 46:55
  Speaker 1: Course you did. But she's seventeen.
• 46:57
  Speaker 2: Bill looked at Cindy's life on the streets and decided
• 47:03
  Speaker 2: she was an unreliable witness before she even finished her statement. Unfortunately,
• 47:11
  Speaker 2: the unreliable witness is such a frustrating, heartbreaking trope in
• 47:17
  Speaker 2: true crime, and as you will see, especially in this case,
• 47:23
  Speaker 2: because there are going to be several Cindy's and there
• 47:26
  Speaker 2: are going to be several Investigator Bill Dennis's.
• 47:32
  Speaker 1: We unfortunately see the not perfect victims and the unreliable
• 47:37
  Speaker 1: witness thrown out a lot in the true crime world.
• 47:42
  Speaker 1: To make matters worse, Robert Hansen wasn't a stranger to
• 47:48
  Speaker 1: the police. What tell me it's not because he was
• 47:52
  Speaker 1: donating money and he was supporting them or taking them
• 47:55
  Speaker 1: free donuts. They actually called him Bob because of his past.
• 48:03
  Speaker 2: Record, right, make it makes sense?
• 48:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah, please, which we will very much be taking in
• 48:13
  Speaker 1: depth about, I mean in part two, Dennis. For Yeah,
• 48:22
  Speaker 1: we're just gonna say, we're gonna be talking in depth
• 48:25
  Speaker 1: about it in the future, but Dennis was more interested
• 48:31
  Speaker 1: in the word of the Hanson's upstanding friends than a
• 48:37
  Speaker 1: teenager whore in handcuffs.
• 48:41
  Speaker 2: Dennis Sharma him, karma. Shame, shame, shame. Now the investigation
• 48:50
  Speaker 2: went sideways the moment Bill Dennis took Robert Hanson's statement. First,
• 48:57
  Speaker 2: Hanson gave them an alibi that you know, he he
• 49:00
  Speaker 2: was with his friends and his friend, well, one of
• 49:03
  Speaker 2: the friends, John Sorell, confirmed that Hanson was at his
• 49:07
  Speaker 2: house working on a seat for his plane, you know,
• 49:10
  Speaker 2: the one that he was loading up with the kidnapped woman,
• 49:13
  Speaker 2: that he was going to go kill that one. And
• 49:16
  Speaker 2: then when investigator Dennis contacted his other.
• 49:31
  Speaker 1: Okay, guys, I don't know if I'm frozen or if
• 49:35
  Speaker 1: Lama's frozen. So I'm talking to you guys because I
• 49:41
  Speaker 1: don't know which one it is. So can y'all tell
• 49:48
  Speaker 1: me in the chat? Can you still hear me? Or Lama?
• 49:52
  Speaker 2: It's it's Lama, Okay.
• 49:54
  Speaker 1: I was like, I don't know what it is, so wow,
• 50:01
  Speaker 1: so I will pick up and wait for Lama. Somebody
• 50:04
  Speaker 1: sniffed that because that's a great photo of her. So
• 50:08
  Speaker 1: Hanson's other alibi friend gave the man an out. He
• 50:12
  Speaker 1: basically said he's lying, tell me now, but hitting doubled
• 50:18
  Speaker 1: down and said that he and Robert were planning a
• 50:22
  Speaker 1: fishing trip because it takes that much time. He looked
• 50:26
  Speaker 1: the investigator in the guy and swore Handsome was with
• 50:30
  Speaker 1: him from midnight until five am. To Dennis, it was
• 50:38
  Speaker 1: the word of three respectable men against Cindy, and in
• 50:44
  Speaker 1: nineteen eighty three, that was enough for the system to
• 50:48
  Speaker 1: start looking for a reason to call Cindy a liar.
• 50:57
  Speaker 1: I know, I love that we heard the voice from
• 51:00
  Speaker 1: behind the curtain. So sadly, instead of focusing on the kidnapping,
• 51:08
  Speaker 1: the gun, or the handcuffs, investigator Dennis became weirdly obsessed
• 51:17
  Speaker 1: with the specific details of the sexual assault. Weirdly, guys, Yeah,
• 51:26
  Speaker 1: a previous report mentioned anal sex, but later in interviews,
• 51:31
  Speaker 1: Cindy was adamant that it was vaginal only and it
• 51:35
  Speaker 1: happened on a black bear skin rock. Yeah, Dennis, you've
• 51:42
  Speaker 1: got some issues on your own, just gonna say it.
• 51:46
  Speaker 1: Because of this slight discrepancy in a traumatized girl's teenage
• 51:51
  Speaker 1: girls initial report, Dennis decided she was untrustworthy. Even after
• 52:01
  Speaker 1: Cindy positively and without hesitation, picked Robert Hansen out of
• 52:07
  Speaker 1: a photo lineup. Dennis still did not believe her, and
• 52:13
  Speaker 1: he demanded she take a polygraph test. You're back, Are
• 52:19
  Speaker 1: you here?
• 52:21
  Speaker 2: I am? I hope myself.
• 52:23
  Speaker 1: So okay, okay, you sound like you're a million miles away.
• 52:28
  Speaker 1: I can You're just way far away. Okay, okay, I'll
• 52:34
  Speaker 1: keep going. Tell me when you're ready home on Cindy,
• 52:37
  Speaker 1: sensing that the man meant to protect her was actually
• 52:41
  Speaker 1: hunting for a reason to discredit her, refused. Fearing for
• 52:48
  Speaker 1: her life, She took her pimp and headed south to Portland,
• 52:54
  Speaker 1: and in her absence, Hansen took the opportunity to cement
• 52:59
  Speaker 1: the story. He told investigators that Cindy was trying to
• 53:04
  Speaker 1: extort him and that she was a trouble maker who
• 53:08
  Speaker 1: was angry because he wouldn't give in to her demands.
• 53:15
  Speaker 1: It was a lie he had used many times before,
• 53:19
  Speaker 1: and with the help of his friend John Hitting's alibi,
• 53:23
  Speaker 1: it freaking worked.
• 53:27
  Speaker 2: I hope do I sound better now? I hope you do. Sorry, Sorry, friends,
• 53:32
  Speaker 2: has to bigin here for the next twelve days, so
• 53:34
  Speaker 2: our power is going to flicker.
• 53:37
  Speaker 1: What happens when we're love.
• 53:40
  Speaker 2: Oh well, I don't know if Investigator Bill Dennis is
• 53:42
  Speaker 2: alive or not, but I'm going to go with probably not.
• 53:44
  Speaker 2: And that was just him haunting me for the grave,
• 53:47
  Speaker 2: I mean, you know, being annoyed by him now speaking
• 53:51
  Speaker 2: up just in time. For investigator Dennis, this was the
• 53:58
  Speaker 2: win he wanted. He's saw a report that she'd been
• 54:02
  Speaker 2: arrested for prostitution in Oregon and stamped her file pays closed,
• 54:08
  Speaker 2: no further action. So he basically walked away from a
• 54:13
  Speaker 2: serial killer because he didn't like the victim and her
• 54:17
  Speaker 2: lifestyle and her.
• 54:19
  Speaker 1: Okay, she's freaking seventeen. It's not like she's a twenty
• 54:25
  Speaker 1: year veteran in the sex industry. Which isn't any better
• 54:29
  Speaker 1: for him to judge that she's seventeen.
• 54:33
  Speaker 2: I know, but think of all these respectable, upstanding male
• 54:39
  Speaker 2: citizens of Anchorage at the time. They would never.
• 54:44
  Speaker 1: Well, I'm going to just tell you no, no. While
• 54:49
  Speaker 1: Investigator Dennis was busy closing the case and labeling it resolved,
• 54:56
  Speaker 1: Officer Greg Baker was living with a heavy content because
• 55:00
  Speaker 1: he was a good person. He couldn't shake the image
• 55:04
  Speaker 1: of Cindy running toward him. In those handcuffs. He knew
• 55:10
  Speaker 1: what real terror looked like, and he knew that Robert
• 55:15
  Speaker 1: Hansen's polite Baker act was exactly that an act.
• 55:24
  Speaker 2: Now, Baker was highly suspicious of Hanson. He saw the
• 55:28
  Speaker 2: horns on the roof the airplane seats, the coldness in
• 55:32
  Speaker 2: Hanson's eyes that didn't match the alibis at rhymes. And
• 55:37
  Speaker 2: I didn't even mean it to when I wrote it,
• 55:40
  Speaker 2: but he was being blocked internally. He knew that the
• 55:44
  Speaker 2: file stayed within the standard channels of the APD Sexual
• 55:49
  Speaker 2: Assault Unit. It was going to collect dust. So he
• 55:54
  Speaker 2: did something that would then also change the course of
• 55:58
  Speaker 2: Alaskan history. He took the information he had gathered and
• 56:03
  Speaker 2: reached out to the Alaska State Troopers. Yes see investigator
• 56:10
  Speaker 2: Bill Dennis. Not everyone's a fucking dick. Yeah, I can't
• 56:14
  Speaker 2: believe he was working in sexuals. I'm sorry I missed
• 56:16
  Speaker 2: that part where you're reading it, but I did have
• 56:18
  Speaker 2: a rant. But I did not believe that guy was
• 56:21
  Speaker 2: working in that department. No, she's compassionate.
• 56:26
  Speaker 1: I can tell you this, the wonderful Olivia Benson, and
• 56:29
  Speaker 1: it's not a real person, but she would have kicked his.
• 56:32
  Speaker 2: Ass to the curb side, so many rants and curzy
• 56:36
  Speaker 2: words for us.
• 56:37
  Speaker 1: At that very moment, Sergeant Glenn Floff with the Alaska
• 56:42
  Speaker 1: State Troopers was drowning in a different kind of mystery.
• 56:47
  Speaker 1: He had been a signed to a task force looking
• 56:50
  Speaker 1: into a string of bodies found in the nixt River
• 56:56
  Speaker 1: and a growing list of missing women, mostly dancers and
• 57:02
  Speaker 1: sex workers, who had vanished without a trace.
• 57:08
  Speaker 3: Hmm.
• 57:10
  Speaker 2: Now, when Officer Baker's report landed on floss desk, it
• 57:15
  Speaker 2: was like the final piece of a puzzle starting started
• 57:19
  Speaker 2: to fall from the sky. Floff didn't see an unreliable
• 57:24
  Speaker 2: witness in Cindy Paulson or just a victim of a
• 57:28
  Speaker 2: single sexual assault. No, to him, she could be the
• 57:33
  Speaker 2: girl who had survived the man they had been hunting
• 57:37
  Speaker 2: for years.
• 57:39
  Speaker 1: He saw her as a human.
• 57:41
  Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, shocking.
• 57:43
  Speaker 1: They saw her as a human. While the APD was
• 57:47
  Speaker 1: obsessed with whether or not specific sex act occurred, because
• 57:53
  Speaker 1: it doesn't matter.
• 57:55
  Speaker 2: To investigator Bill Dennis, I didn't include it in the script.
• 57:58
  Speaker 1: To him, assault a sexual assault, I don't care where okay.
• 58:05
  Speaker 1: Flof was looking at the bigger, bigger picture, at her
• 58:09
  Speaker 1: description of the house, the plane, and the basement. He
• 58:15
  Speaker 1: cross referenced it with the locations where the bodies of
• 58:19
  Speaker 1: women like Ecclutna Annie had been discovered. He believed, for
• 58:28
  Speaker 1: the first time, the missing person cases had a face,
• 58:33
  Speaker 1: a name, and a metallic green buick century attached to them.
• 58:40
  Speaker 2: Now, Officer Baker's refusal to let the case die, combined
• 58:45
  Speaker 2: with floss Bird's eye view of the murders, meant that
• 58:48
  Speaker 2: the butcher Bigger was finally being hunted by someone as
• 58:53
  Speaker 2: methodical as he was. But the first question was who
• 58:59
  Speaker 2: is Robert Hanson.
• 59:01
  Speaker 1: He's a piece of shit.
• 59:03
  Speaker 2: Well, yeah, that's true. That's true. He's a piece of shit.
• 59:07
  Speaker 2: Spoilers spoilers now.
• 59:10
  Speaker 1: Next time on True Crime and Wine Times Frozen Fear
• 59:14
  Speaker 1: the Butcher Baker of Alaska series, We're going to go
• 59:18
  Speaker 1: back to the beginning. We are going to peel back
• 59:21
  Speaker 1: the skin of the respectable Baker to see the rot
• 59:26
  Speaker 1: that had been festering for decades. Because Robert Hansen didn't
• 59:33
  Speaker 1: become a monster the night he met Sidney Paulson. He
• 59:37
  Speaker 1: was a man with the history.
• 59:40
  Speaker 2: We're gonna look at the stuttering boy who hid under
• 59:44
  Speaker 2: his bed, the young man who turned arson to soothe
• 59:48
  Speaker 2: his rage in the Bad Bob who was terrorizing the
• 59:52
  Speaker 2: women of Anchorage long before the first body was ever
• 59:57
  Speaker 2: found in the Nick River. Boy. It's a journey, you is.
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 2: It's a journey.
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 1: Then we will start what we'll call Hansen Silent Decade
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 1: of the nineteen seventies by diving into the cases the
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 1: nineteen seventy one legal system tried to forget, like the
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 1: abduction of a young secretary and the harrowing accounts of
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 1: Patty Roberts that should have put him away for good,
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 1: and the first of many unsolved murders starting with Sylvia
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 1: Beth van Senten that many believe was the work of
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 1: Robert Hanson.
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 3: That's me.
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 2: I'm raising my hand. That's me. I'm like for those people. Now,
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 2: the signs were all there, and the warnings were loud,
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 2: So why was this man still walking the streets in
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 2: nineteen eighty three. Now, if what we've discussed so far
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 2: in this story has pissed you off, because I am, well,
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 2: then grab your bottles, because with each episode the story
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 2: only gets darker and darker, and you will get angrier
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 2: and angrier.
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 1: And we are going to need more wine. Just gonna
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 1: be honest. We talked about this earlier. We can't do
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 1: one bottle for the week of episodes. This case is
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 1: going to put a strain on our liver.
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah, pretty much. But oh man, it's it's gonna be doozy. Well,
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 2: let's get into our closing thoughts for the night. I
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 2: guess I'll go first, unless you want to go first, Terry.
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 1: Now I'm gonna let you because you've done all of
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 1: this research and you have been holding it in I have.
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 1: I am going to let you open a little bit
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 1: of the bottle and get some of it out, just some.
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 2: Not all of it, just some, all right, you guys. Well,
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 2: before we put the cork back in the bottle for tonight,
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 2: I have some thoughts, a lot bad, a lot of thoughts,
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 2: A whole lot of thoughts, yes, that I would like
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 2: to share regarding what we've learned so far, and maybe
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 2: some insight into why we've decided to turn this case
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 2: into a multi part series. Though I think from what
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 2: we've just covered, it's looking pretty obvious.
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 1: How this is to say it is captain obvious at
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 1: this point.
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 2: Just going to be honest, But you know, we often
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 2: talk about serial killers as if they are a ghosts,
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 2: these shadowy figures that appear out of the mist to
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 2: do the unthinkable to us. But what Sidney Paulson's story
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 2: reveals is something much more uncomfortable and quite frankly scarier.
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 2: Because Robert Hansen wasn't a ghost. He was a neighbor.
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 2: He was the man who sold you your morning sour dough.
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 2: He was a father, a husband, and a local success story.
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 2: And to me, the most terrifying part of this first
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 2: chapter isn't just the basement or the plane, which are horrific.
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 2: It's the silence. It's the silence of the good friends
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 2: who chose a buddy over a bleeding teenage girl. It's
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 2: the silence of a legal system that looked at a
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 2: teenager in handcuffs and saw a reputation rather than a
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 2: human being in agony. Every time we dismiss a victim
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 2: because of their lifestyle, their job, or their choices, we
• 1:03:58
  Speaker 2: aren't just failing them. We are building the walls that
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 2: monsters hide behind. And listen, this story happens in the past,
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 2: but it's still happened in you all. It's still a problem.
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 2: And now in this story you're going to learn about
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 2: a lot of exes on a map. Now each one
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 2: we will have sure, Yes, of course we do. Of course.
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 2: Now it's important to know that each one of those exes,
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 2: oh at strange time, was a person. Each one had
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 2: a name, of family and a future that we plan
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 2: on telling you about because they should have mattered, and
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 2: for a long time, the only thing standing between them
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 2: in justice was the courage of one teenage girl who said, quote,
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 2: this motherfucker isn't getting away with it. Now, we like
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 2: to think that we would have been the ones to
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 2: believe her, but the history of this case asks us
• 1:05:02
  Speaker 2: to be pretty honest with ourselves. In a world of
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 2: Officer Bakers and Investigator Dennis's, would we have been a
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 2: Greg Baker or would we have been an investigator Bill Dennis?
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 2: Think about that. While we have gotten better about listening
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 2: to victims of all kinds in our modern world, would
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 2: Cindy Paulsen be believed some forty years later over lies
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 2: from so called respectable men or would her file get
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 2: another case closed, stamp and tossed aside? What do you
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 2: guys think? I think I unfortunately know that answer.
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we unfortunately know. I would like to think that
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 1: as we look back at all of this, and I
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 1: am horrified at what happened that the world has become
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 1: more educated with victims, and victims do not need to
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 1: be perfect. Unfortunately, I'm a realist. It still happens. Let's
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 1: be honest, it still happens. It still happens. We look
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 1: at what they have done in their life that brought
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 1: it on their self, what did they do to cause it.
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 1: We don't hold the person accountable because they're a good person,
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 1: and we're not going to get into what's going on. Look,
• 1:06:37
  Speaker 1: you know, in current times, but I think we're seeing
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 1: a lot of files released every week currently where people
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 1: get away with shit.
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 2: And you know, one of the frustrating things that I
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 2: you know, as I've been like working on this story,
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 2: and I mean it's always around in general, but like,
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 2: you know, you want to be like, oh, well it
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 2: was the times. It's no, it's not because of the times,
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 2: because Officer Baker was the same person in those times.
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 2: Sergeant Flaw, same person in those times. It's a choice.
• 1:07:11
  Speaker 2: It's it's a choice to be either a compassionate human
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 2: being and actually try to get justice, or to be
• 1:07:22
  Speaker 2: they're not worthy of my time.
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 1: It's also a hard choice.
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 2: Fuck them.
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 1: It's a hard choice because to make that choice, you
• 1:07:31
  Speaker 1: have to go up against others.
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 2: You have to stand for what's right.
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 1: And unfortunately it may be twenty twenty six, but guys,
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 1: I just want to say, what makes me insane about
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 1: this case. It may have been in the past, I
• 1:07:53
  Speaker 1: bet you it's happening somewhere currently today.
• 1:07:56
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, absolutely, as.
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 1: We look at people by their life choices and we
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 1: judge them and we decide what they are because guess what, guys,
• 1:08:12
  Speaker 1: even a serial killer can be murdered. May have deserved
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 1: it in some people's minds, but still they were murdered.
• 1:08:22
  Speaker 1: The crime against them could have still happened. And I
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 1: think people need to realize that there is no such
• 1:08:29
  Speaker 1: thing as a perfect victim or a perfect witness. And
• 1:08:33
  Speaker 1: throughout this series you're going to rant about that because unfortunately,
• 1:08:39
  Speaker 1: we're going to hear the word unreliable so many damn times.
• 1:08:45
  Speaker 1: And I'm going to tell you I can't help but
• 1:08:48
  Speaker 1: think is it because they're females as well?
• 1:08:52
  Speaker 2: Oh one hundred percent, So you guys will see don't
• 1:08:58
  Speaker 2: worry as I am not listen, Lama doesn't lie, okay,
• 1:09:03
  Speaker 2: when she says something's gonna go Wow, they're crazy or whatever.
• 1:09:06
  Speaker 2: It's gonna it's I have literally consumed myself with this, Betty.
• 1:09:11
  Speaker 1: You're gonna want to pull Instacart or go to the
• 1:09:15
  Speaker 1: store and get wine because we're back on Thursday. Thursday
• 1:09:18
  Speaker 1: is going to be a longer episode. It's not going
• 1:09:21
  Speaker 1: to be as shortest tonight. I haven't even a real
• 1:09:24
  Speaker 1: we're gonna need it. Okay, guys, so this whole series
• 1:09:29
  Speaker 1: is rough, but we are going to contain it into
• 1:09:32
  Speaker 1: March and something I just thought of, Miss Buffy. We're
• 1:09:36
  Speaker 1: gonna keep it during LINT season. So what I am
• 1:09:40
  Speaker 1: now deciding to give up for Lent is Robert Hansen
• 1:09:45
  Speaker 1: and allowing people like that to get away with stuff.
• 1:09:48
  Speaker 2: Oh, I was like, what I just wrote, like nine episodes.
• 1:09:54
  Speaker 1: Up, the fact that people allow men like Robert Hansen
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 1: to get away with this, I'm not.
• 1:10:00
  Speaker 2: Going to allow it, right, Betty, I'm thinking about just
• 1:10:02
  Speaker 2: getting a bottle.
• 1:10:03
  Speaker 1: Of vodka for the I know we might just need
• 1:10:06
  Speaker 1: to do that now before we go. Guys, if you
• 1:10:10
  Speaker 1: like what you've heard tonight, not only do I want
• 1:10:13
  Speaker 1: you to like the video and hit the notification button
• 1:10:19
  Speaker 1: because I don't think I can tell you exactly right
• 1:10:23
  Speaker 1: now what the schedule's going to be, but I'm gonna
• 1:10:26
  Speaker 1: tell you you're going to be spent a lot of
• 1:10:29
  Speaker 1: time with us in the month of March.
• 1:10:32
  Speaker 2: That's true, I can we can definitely tell you True
• 1:10:34
  Speaker 2: Crime and Wine time will not just be on Thursdays
• 1:10:37
  Speaker 2: in the March.
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 1: Just Tuesday and Thursdays. There might be some other nights
• 1:10:40
  Speaker 1: popping in there along the way. So also follow our socials,
• 1:10:47
  Speaker 1: subscribe to our YouTube. It is free, or if you're
• 1:10:50
  Speaker 1: listening on the podcast, you definitely want to download this,
• 1:10:55
  Speaker 1: give us a rating. And I'm going to just say,
• 1:10:58
  Speaker 1: come on over to YouTube and watch us so you
• 1:11:02
  Speaker 1: can see the faces because the rage, the eye rolls,
• 1:11:09
  Speaker 1: you're I mean, we got people clipping it. You're gonna
• 1:11:12
  Speaker 1: want to clip it, okay, And it helps us tremendously
• 1:11:17
  Speaker 1: in getting our channel out there, because guys, we spend
• 1:11:21
  Speaker 1: a lot of time researching this this. I know Buffy
• 1:11:24
  Speaker 1: is hoping for twenty episodes. Nope, Buffy, Nope, we're stopping
• 1:11:28
  Speaker 1: at eighteen. I mean, y'all are going to have to
• 1:11:32
  Speaker 1: start paying us the big bucks to go. We're trying
• 1:11:35
  Speaker 1: to get this all done in March, since I'm gonna
• 1:11:37
  Speaker 1: be out for April, So unless we win the lottery
• 1:11:40
  Speaker 1: or something, we're keeping it to March.
• 1:11:44
  Speaker 2: Yes, because Terry is gonna be out. But also, I'll
• 1:11:47
  Speaker 2: be honest, I don't know if I could have done
• 1:11:49
  Speaker 2: this one episode a week. Sorry you and not like
• 1:11:54
  Speaker 2: just talk about it all the time.
• 1:11:56
  Speaker 1: So you've just now that we've gotten into it and
• 1:11:59
  Speaker 1: seeing every thing, you absolutely did the right thing, because
• 1:12:05
  Speaker 1: every one of these victims needs their story told. But
• 1:12:09
  Speaker 1: also the story needs to be told about the failures
• 1:12:15
  Speaker 1: in the system. Yes, because guys, the only way we
• 1:12:20
  Speaker 1: learn to do things better in the future is learning
• 1:12:23
  Speaker 1: from the past. And unfortunately, I'm going to just squat
• 1:12:27
  Speaker 1: on the record right now and say Alaska has not
• 1:12:29
  Speaker 1: learned from their past, but they still have a chance
• 1:12:34
  Speaker 1: to learn.
• 1:12:35
  Speaker 2: That's right. That's right now, you guys. As we said,
• 1:12:39
  Speaker 2: we will be back with part two of our Frozen
• 1:12:42
  Speaker 2: Fear the Butcher Baker of Alaska series this Thursday at
• 1:12:46
  Speaker 2: eight pm Eastern. It will be a little bit longer.
• 1:12:50
  Speaker 2: You are definitely going to get mad, so make sure
• 1:12:53
  Speaker 2: you bring some wine or vodka. As we've decided in
• 1:12:55
  Speaker 2: the chat. So if you haven't yet hit the subscribe
• 1:12:58
  Speaker 2: button the notification so you don't miss when we go live.
• 1:13:02
  Speaker 2: We will also be making a specific playlist for this
• 1:13:07
  Speaker 2: series as well, so if you are just watching this
• 1:13:12
  Speaker 2: randomly and it's a couple of weeks in the future,
• 1:13:15
  Speaker 2: you can check out our channel. We probably have a
• 1:13:17
  Speaker 2: playlist with all the other episodes. So is there anything
• 1:13:21
  Speaker 2: you would like to say before we go or sign off?
• 1:13:24
  Speaker 2: Terry's like, yes, all of the things.
• 1:13:26
  Speaker 3: I know.
• 1:13:27
  Speaker 1: This is true crumb and wine time. I am going
• 1:13:30
  Speaker 1: to make a recommendation, so everybody grab your butts.
• 1:13:33
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 1:13:35
  Speaker 1: I don't think wine is gonna work for this series.
• 1:13:40
  Speaker 1: I think you need to go ahead and move on
• 1:13:44
  Speaker 1: to the vodka, the rum, that's Akila, whatever you need,
• 1:13:49
  Speaker 1: if it's doctor Pepper, if it's gone. I don't think
• 1:13:53
  Speaker 1: wine is going to get us through this series. Just
• 1:13:57
  Speaker 1: gonna say that. But I also think it's a good
• 1:14:02
  Speaker 1: time to say you see something, say something, and let's
• 1:14:08
  Speaker 1: stand up for the people that are willing to say
• 1:14:11
  Speaker 1: something that's.
• 1:14:12
  Speaker 2: Right, the officer Bakers of.
• 1:14:14
  Speaker 1: The world, because that is hard. That doing the right
• 1:14:20
  Speaker 1: thing a lot of times is the hardest thing to do.
• 1:14:25
  Speaker 2: That's been very true, and you're not usually everyone's favorite
• 1:14:29
  Speaker 2: book and you're.
• 1:14:30
  Speaker 1: You're yeah, you're not going to be. So I think
• 1:14:33
  Speaker 1: as we leave tonight, I want you to think about that,
• 1:14:36
  Speaker 1: Think about how can we support those who do the
• 1:14:41
  Speaker 1: right thing, support the victims, their family, but also the
• 1:14:44
  Speaker 1: people who stand up for them, and let's decide to
• 1:14:48
  Speaker 1: be some of those people.
• 1:14:50
  Speaker 2: Agreed well, said Terry. Well, thank you all very much
• 1:14:54
  Speaker 2: for being with us tonight. I am definitely looking forward
• 1:14:57
  Speaker 2: to the next episode. So until next time, please, as
• 1:15:01
  Speaker 2: always go forth and be amazing. All right, bye guys.
• 1:15:07
  Speaker 3: Mm hmmmmmmmmmm
• 1:15:15
  Speaker 2: H m hmmm.