Latest / No Shrinking Violets Podcast for Women / Navigating College as a Young Woman: Lessons in Growth, Boundaries, and Resilience

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Navigating College as a Young Woman: Lessons in Growth, Boundaries, and Resilience · No Shrinking Violets Podcast for Women

• 0:05
  Mary: Welcome to no Shrinking Violence.
• 0:07
  Mary: I'm your host, mary Rothwell, licensed therapist and certified integrative mental health practitioner.
• 0:13
  Mary: I've created a space where we celebrate the intuition and power of women who want to break free from limiting narratives.
• 0:20
  Mary: We'll explore all realms of wellness what it means to take up space unapologetically, and how your essential nature is key to living life on your terms.
• 0:29
  Mary: It's time to own your space, trust your nature and flourish.
• 0:34
  Mary: Let's dive in.
• 0:35
  Mary: Hi and welcome to the show.
• 0:41
  Mary: We're going down a bit of a new road today.
• 0:43
  Mary: If you're a parent of a teenaged female, this is for you, and my hope is that you'll share this with your daughter or daughters, or, better yet, listen together.
• 0:52
  Mary: In a sense, I have known my guest for about 12 years and I have known of her for a few more.
• 0:59
  Mary: Her name is Carly May, and I first met her when she was probably 10 years old, believe it or not, I was her elementary school counselor.
• 1:08
  Mary: My time working with the Littles was short, only about a year and a half.
• 1:13
  Mary: It was during a weird bridge in my career, a time between a job that I loved, but that had become an unhealthy environment for my growth, and the next opportunity that put me on a new and wonderful journey environment for my growth and the next opportunity that put me on a new and wonderful journey.
• 1:25
  Mary: I'm sure you'll probably hear more details about those experiences someday.
• 1:29
  Mary: But back to Carly.
• 1:30
  Mary: I met her on this career bridge.
• 1:38
  Mary: I knew her mom, so I knew of Carly, but I got to see for myself what a delightful young girl she was when I took a position at her elementary school.
• 1:41
  Mary: Although my interactions with her were brief, I was struck even then by her maturity.
• 1:47
  Mary: I am not surprised at where she is in her life right now, but if you told me that we would be chatting on my podcast, I would have laughed in disbelief.
• 1:55
  Mary: I reached out to Carly and invited her to be my guest because I have seen some of her recent journey on social media.
• 2:02
  Mary: She's in college now.
• 2:05
  Mary: One of the best parts of my career, hands down, has been my own work with college students.
• 2:09
  Mary: They are quite simply my heart.
• 2:12
  Mary: We think of college as a journey for the mind, but helping young people navigate the emotional road was so humbling and I felt blessed that they allowed me to walk part of that with them.
• 2:23
  Mary: Sometimes college is the first time women really start to see all the roads open to them.
• 2:29
  Mary: I know for me I didn't get the same encouragement from some adults in my life as guys did, but I also know that I was a listener and a connector, whether by genetics or conditioning, and I almost instinctively gravitated away from STEM careers and chose a major of psychology, just like Carly.
• 2:47
  Mary: But as a lover of biology and a great fixer of household stuff, I often wonder what would have happened if I had been encouraged to explore different options.
• 2:57
  Mary: But beyond the messages for females related to careers was the unique social terrain we needed to navigate in college.
• 3:04
  Mary: Although now many of the outreach programs in higher education deal with making safe choices, I don't remember much about that.
• 3:12
  Mary: When I was Carly's age First, we didn't have cell phones, so safety looked much different.
• 3:18
  Mary: We didn't carry in our pockets a way to get help, but we also had a social world that was more insulated and less fraught.
• 3:25
  Mary: We didn't have the fun or the stress of communicating through texts or creating and maintaining streaks on Snapchat or seeing pics of people together at parties where we weren't invited, but my university was actually on the list of top party schools at the time.
• 3:42
  Mary: So had I not had a really cool friend group of both non-dramatic girls and truly protective, platonic male friends.
• 3:49
  Mary: I may have way more harrowing stories to tell.
• 3:54
  Mary: Navigating not only female friendships but romantic or sexual relationships can be a wild ride for women in an environment that marries intense academic pressure with immersion in a world of hundreds to thousands of people your own age, and often it is the first time young people get to make every decision for themselves what time to get out of bed, what time to go to bed, whether to study all night instead of going to bed what, or whether to eat.
• 4:21
  Mary: How to connect to people in the classroom that are seated next to them a total stranger, not someone who they have known since they were five or 12, how to share living space with strangers.
• 4:33
  Mary: Anyway, I have helped young women work through the imposter syndrome of changing majors to something they never dreamed they could do, to communicating with professors when the power differential made them want to give up, to standing in their space and recognizing that their body was theirs and that they could make boundaries.
• 4:51
  Mary: I've also helped more women than I want to count with navigating the aftermath of an assault, with the institutional policies and the emotional heartbreak that go along with it.
• 5:01
  Mary: So I asked Carly to join me today because I wanted to see, from the eyes and heart of someone who is living it, what her college journey was like as a female.
• 5:11
  Mary: What did she learn outside of the classroom and what would she tell other young women who are just starting to think about what they want to do after high school?
• 5:19
  Mary: What did she wish she knew and what surprised her?
• 5:22
  Mary: Let's dive in.
• 5:24
  Mary: Carly is a senior at the University of Pittsburgh, where she majors in psychology.
• 5:28
  Mary: In the fall, she will be attending Columbia University to embark upon her Master of Science degree in occupational therapy.
• 5:35
  Mary: She loves traveling and she took the opportunity to study abroad in Cyprus last spring, where she had the amazing opportunity to visit eight countries.
• 5:44
  Mary: She has been a swimmer since she was seven years old and she loves to read, of course, when she's done with her academic papers.
• 5:51
  Mary: And finally, she is a huge Taylor Swift fan.
• 5:55
  Mary: Welcome to no Shrinking Violets.
• 5:57
  Mary: Carly, I am so glad you're here.
• 6:00
  Carli: Thank you so much for having me.
• 6:01
  Carli: This is amazing.
• 6:03
  Mary: We're just going to jump right in.
• 6:04
  Mary: So, as a high school female, what experiences were?
• 6:08
  Mary: Flashbulb moments so in other words, times that, when you think back, really stand out in your memory that helped you to decide that you wanted to attend college after graduation?
• 6:20
  Carli: Yeah, so one of my main things was I had the opportunity to work with our school's life skills classroom so that's a classroom where kids of all different abilities are there and they're getting a more specialized education that that was something that I wanted to do in my career.
• 6:48
  Carli: So I knew, with that, I would obviously be needing to go to college.
• 6:49
  Carli: I didn't know if it would be something like teaching like my mom, if I wanted to go into that or something in a more clinical sense or therapy or anything like that, but I knew that all of those options would require a college degree.
• 7:04
  Carli: So I was always.
• 7:05
  Carli: I always knew that I was going to go to college.
• 7:07
  Carli: It was never really a question.
• 7:09
  Carli: Growing up with a teacher.
• 7:11
  Carli: As a mom, education was always something that was prioritized in our house and with that I knew that I wanted to see a place that was bigger than where I just went to high school.
• 7:23
  Mary: Okay, and Pittsburgh certainly is bigger than where I just went to high school.
• 7:25
  Mary: Okay, and Pittsburgh certainly is bigger than where you grew up, right yeah?
• 7:29
  Carli: Yeah, it's a bigger city but it's not as stressful as being in a New York type population or maybe like just a huge metropolitan I don't know the word.
• 7:40
  Carli: I'm looking for metropolitan type city.
• 7:44
  Carli: So it's nice because it's basically a campus within a city.
• 7:48
  Carli: So I really loved that kind of balance and stuff, where I knew that I could take a bus to get to those bigger areas and everything, but I also had the comfort of being oh, I can walk to my classes, I can feel safe going, you know, to different buildings and going to friends' houses and everything like that.
• 8:07
  Mary: Yeah.
• 8:07
  Mary: Well, as I mentioned in my intro, I started in the major of psychology, but that only lasted a semester or two and I actually switched to education.
• 8:16
  Mary: So did you ever yeah, did you ever rethink that?
• 8:20
  Mary: Or did you start in psych and stay with it?
• 8:24
  Carli: I started in psych and stayed with it.
• 8:26
  Carli: But I will say I knew I wanted to do occupational therapy since junior year of high school.
• 8:33
  Carli: But I had kind of this crossroads where I was like, well, do I do kind of a five-year program where I do three years rushed undergrad and then the two years of the master's program and I'm out in five years, and that kind of constricts me, though to occupational therapy, because you can't when you're in that program you're not switching.
• 8:53
  Carli: That's just how it is.
• 8:54
  Carli: Or I could do the four years of psychology undergrad and think about If I wanted to do something different with it, if I wanted to be a counselor, if I wanted to.
• 9:05
  Carli: There's so many different things you can do with psychology.
• 9:07
  Carli: You can basically go to any grad school type of program you wanted to.
• 9:12
  Carli: So I knew that that was the option I wanted to do, just because I didn't want to constrict myself, even though I knew I would probably end up in OT, didn't want to like feel like I was trapped in case I did discover that I loved other things, based on the classes I was taking and stuff.
• 9:31
  Mary: And I feel like that definitely worked out for me because, even though I am continuing with occupational therapy, I still feel like I had the option to explore all these other different possibilities within the major Well, and one thing I will say from my time working at colleges is you might actually be in the minority now that you did not change your major, and I don't know if you navigated that with friends, but I know that that is really a source of a lot of angst sometimes for young people because they are expected to, at such a young age, pick this path, and I think when you get to a school, especially a larger school like Pitt, you can start to see all these things you didn't even know existed.
• 10:16
  Mary: You might have friends that are pursuing something, even if it's an extracurricular, and it can be like oh my gosh, that is so cool and it can be, first of all, overwhelming.
• 10:25
  Mary: But there also still seems to be this idea that if you change your major, you have made a mistake with your choice, and I feel, like in anything in life, you don't know what you know until you learn it right.
• 10:40
  Carli: Exactly.
• 10:41
  Carli: Yeah, pitt is a little bit unique because they don't have you declare a major until you have a certain amount of credits towards that major.
• 10:49
  Carli: So usually it's by the end of your freshman year, or even sophomore year, depending on what it is.
• 10:52
  Carli: But I do completely agree with you.
• 10:55
  Carli: You're 18 years old and suddenly you're supposed to decide what you want to do with the rest of your life.
• 11:01
  Carli: It's crazy picking which school you go to.
• 11:05
  Carli: That depends on so many different things what your major is going to be, where you're going to live, all these things.
• 11:11
  Carli: It's really overwhelming for someone so young.
• 11:15
  Carli: You're basically deciding what you want to do with the rest of your life and with that, if you feel like you're on a wrong track, you're completely right.
• 11:23
  Carli: It does feel like you're doing something wrong, even though that's the entire point of college.
• 11:28
  Carli: I look back at who I was at 18.
• 11:31
  Carli: And even though it was only three years ago, I feel like I've changed so much in every aspect of my life since then.
• 11:38
  Carli: So it's hard.
• 11:40
  Carli: I feel like it's a lot of pressure for kids that age to have to make those decisions.
• 11:46
  Mary: Yeah, and some people choose their school based on their major and yours is more of a general.
• 11:52
  Mary: You find psychology at nearly every college, but if you had decided that you wanted to go into something different that was much more specialized, you might have had to switch schools too.
• 12:03
  Mary: So I kind of want to normalize that, that you can make a choice based on the information you have at the time, and especially when you have had limited experience I mean, you were in the same school district your entire life, right so?
• 12:19
  Mary: And some people switch school districts so they're going to get a little bit wider experiences but that idea of I've made a mistake because I'm changing my major or I have to change schools to get the major I want, you know that's part of life, the life journey, and I would like to normalize that for young people and also parents, because it's a lot sometimes goes into the parents' decision about if they're going to contribute finances or how far away is the school and moving their student in and all of those things.
• 12:53
  Mary: But you should have that spirit of exploration.
• 12:58
  Mary: I think that here's what I would tell my students when I was a high school counselor what do you want to do next, not.
• 13:05
  Mary: What do you want to do for the rest of your life?
• 13:07
  Mary: Because I don't even know that and I'm quite a bit older than you.
• 13:10
  Mary: So now you mentioned your mom and I said in my intro I knew her because I worked with her.
• 13:16
  Mary: She was a teacher at the high school I worked at actually one of the best teachers.
• 13:22
  Mary: But what role overall did your parents or other important adults play in your decision to just not only attend Pittsburgh but maybe your choice of major?
• 13:33
  Carli: Yeah, so my parents have always been very open.
• 13:36
  Carli: The major, I don't think mattered as much.
• 13:38
  Carli: You know my sister's in graphic design and that's, you know a little bit more of an unconventional field than you know psychology, like something that has like that guaranteed type of job.
• 13:49
  Carli: So that part wasn't really as much of a discussion.
• 13:53
  Carli: But for University of Pittsburgh it kind of was a draw between finances and location at that point because I knew if I was going to be majoring in psychology I would have to go to graduate school because unfortunately with an undergraduate degree like psychology, there's a limited amount of things that you can do with just the bachelor's now and as annoying as that is, that's just the facts of it.
• 14:21
  Carli: That's just what it is right now.
• 14:23
  Carli: So I knew that I was going to have to attend grad school and obviously that was going to cost a lot and so luckily and very grateful for it, my parents knew that they would be able to help me pay for undergrad but they wouldn't be able to help with graduate school.
• 14:40
  Carli: So I kind of had this like balance and stuff that I wanted to do because I did get accepted to other universities and they were so expensive for undergraduate Like it was insane and I knew well, if I go there, I'm going to be taking out a bunch of different loans doing that.
• 14:59
  Carli: Or I can go to Pitt, which is equally a great school, if not better, for the major of psychology than these other schools, and I can be taken care of financially there.
• 15:10
  Carli: So that's ultimately the decision that we decided to go for.
• 15:14
  Mary: Yeah, and it's really cool that you had parents that have attended college, that are were invested in your education.
• 15:21
  Mary: That's unfortunately not the experience of some young people.
• 15:24
  Mary: They're very much on their own, but you have a level head.
• 15:29
  Mary: I mean, I think you always have had a little bit of a higher level of maturity, so you know you had to weigh all of these things.
• 15:37
  Mary: So it's pretty cool that you had people there that could you could bounce things off of and that would help you make those decisions.
• 15:46
  Mary: And, as I mentioned, I chose a similar path and I've talked on this show in past episodes about the gender-connected traits, so, for instance, connecting and listening, something called invisible labor and how women do a lot of things behind the scenes in the workplace and at home to keep things running.
• 16:11
  Mary: If I had to do it over again, maybe I would have chosen science.
• 16:15
  Mary: I don't know, but do you feel like you had any experiences along the way, as you've looked back, that maybe sent a more gender-specific message that you should do a specific thing with your future?
• 16:29
  Carli: Something that comes to mind when you ask.
• 16:32
  Carli: That is a certain experience that I had in high school actually.
• 16:37
  Carli: So I was pretty outspoken in high school.
• 16:41
  Carli: It was a very interesting political climate, especially where I went to school and I, you know, spoke out for what I believed in on social media, in you know, real life conversations, everything like that.
• 16:56
  Carli: However, as you know, with where my high school was, that wasn't, you know, the main opinions, so I did receive a lot of, you know.
• 17:09
  Carli: A simple term would be backlash against it, but a more serious term was cyberbullying.
• 17:14
  Carli: I was constantly being heckled paragraphs posting on my Instagram page.
• 17:19
  Carli: Someone took a screenshot of me and, like, posted it on their own account and said that I was a baby killer.
• 17:27
  Carli: I hadn't mentioned anything about abortion in this thing, but they just saw things like that, yeah, and we tried reporting it to the schools and stuff, and they were like, well, you know, it hasn't, like there's not enough things, even though this was three separate boys that were constantly commenting 10 different things, yet that wasn't enough evidence for them to get in trouble.
• 17:47
  Carli: So it was things like that where I don't know if it was just a gender specific thing or if it was just the politics of the school.
• 17:55
  Carli: But I knew I was like I have to continue this education because they won't type of thing and the people that I was arguing with they're not going to college and you know that's fine for them.
• 18:10
  Carli: But I knew that whatever I wanted to do, I wanted to make a difference and I was very interested in law for those years in high school.
• 18:20
  Carli: I wanted to do something with law and I was dead set on it.
• 18:25
  Carli: I applied to schools in DC.
• 18:26
  Carli: That was kind of where I was deciding originally was Pitt and these schools in DC, but of course they were the ones that were extremely expensive and I was like, well, once I figured out that law might not be for me, it was just a little bit too much paperwork and things like that and just I wasn't going to be completely comfortable being in front of a courtroom.
• 18:51
  Carli: I was like, okay, well then that's when I looked into psychology or anything else that I can still try to make that impact and change people's lives.
• 19:01
  Carli: That's really what I wanted to do, and not that that directly relates to all those things that happened to me in high school, but I know that during that time how all those guys because I went to therapy during that time, because it was so and I'm not like ashamed to admit that they helped me and I knew I was like I want to maybe be someone that can help someone going through those situations as well, because I was an easy target.
• 19:30
  Carli: I was, I was a girl and that's the type of thing they knew that like they could hurt me by saying certain things and I they were allowed to have their opinions and they could post about it all they wanted, but I couldn't say my opinion without you know, facing any of that backlash.
• 19:47
  Carli: So I think that really had a strong impact on deciding like that.
• 19:50
  Carli: I knew I wanted to try to make that difference.
• 19:53
  Mary: Yeah, well, so interestingly, another theme that has come up often is how women treat other women, and when you first mentioned the cyberbullying, in my mind I assumed it was females, but it was not.
• 20:10
  Carli: It was not, not in high school, it was boys in high school.
• 20:14
  Carli: Yeah.
• 20:15
  Mary: Okay.
• 20:15
  Mary: So, you really stood in your space.
• 20:20
  Mary: And, again, huge theme that I feel is important is that women should take up their space, that we are often given these guardrails that we didn't put there.
• 20:35
  Mary: But we learn pretty quickly oh, somebody wants me in this lane and we can make our own lane.
• 20:42
  Mary: And I think you, we can make our own lane and I think you, from a young age, decided that you were going to, you know, take the guardrails down that somebody else tried to put there and you were going to make your own path.
• 20:54
  Mary: That's really brave.
• 20:55
  Mary: And then to reflect on that experience and I love that you talked about being in therapy, because there's nobody I know In fact, there are no wonderful therapists that I know personally that have not been in therapy because it's just something that when you hit a rough spot, when you have that person who cares but can do it in a way that's not apparent or not a friend, and you can say anything, you can say anything and you can really work through things.
• 21:27
  Mary: It sounds like that helped you sort of find your center or keep your center, and then you want to pay that forward in supporting other people going forward.
• 21:37
  Mary: Yeah, exactly.
• 21:38
  Mary: Which is pretty cool.
• 21:39
  Mary: So I was going to ask you.
• 21:42
  Mary: By the way, congratulations on your acceptance to Columbia.
• 21:45
  Mary: That is very cool.
• 21:45
  Mary: Thank you so much.
• 21:45
  Mary: I was going to ask you.
• 21:45
  Mary: By the way, congratulations on your acceptance to Columbia.
• 21:47
  Mary: That is very cool.
• 21:47
  Mary: Thank you so much.
• 21:47
  Mary: I was going to ask about your thought process, but it sounds like you really covered that.
• 21:52
  Mary: That you knew pretty early on.
• 21:54
  Mary: First of all, you're right In psychology you're pretty much committed to doing something as a graduate program because, for people who don't know, you can't be a therapist with a bachelor's degree in psychology.
• 22:06
  Mary: If you want a license, you have to pursue social work.
• 22:10
  Mary: To get a social work license, you have to pursue a master's in counseling to be a licensed professional counselor, which is what I am.
• 22:19
  Mary: And if it's still the same, you can't actually be a licensed psychologist unless you have a doctoral degree in psychology.
• 22:26
  Mary: So you knew, stepping on that path, that you had a bunch of years to get under your belt.
• 22:33
  Carli: Yes, exactly I knew whether it was psych or OT.
• 22:36
  Carli: I was going to have to go to grad school, Mm hmm.
• 22:38
  Mary: Now, that's quite a different path, though, because now you are going to kind of make that turn into something that is much more of a.
• 22:46
  Mary: You're going to need to know a lot of anatomy, a lot of physical stuff, not that there isn't a lot of, I feel like, emotional support in that role.
• 22:55
  Mary: I just had to have PT, like about nine months ago, and a lot of that was my brain wanting to defeat my motivation.
• 23:04
  Mary: Was there any moment that you can remember that you were like, okay, yeah, this is the right path I want to go towards?
• 23:12
  Mary: Ot.
• 23:14
  Carli: Most recently, in the past two years, I started working at a camp for individuals that have Down syndrome autism, for individuals that have Down syndrome, autism, cerebral palsy, neurological disorders, anything of the sorts and the camp is for kids aged like eight.
• 23:33
  Carli: We have campers that are 33.
• 23:35
  Carli: And really working with that population of kids, young adults, adults, I just went into work every day and I loved it and it was the type of job where it was hard.
• 23:51
  Carli: It was hard work we're assisting and feeding, bathroom, everything like that and it was almost like a test for me, though, because I knew I need to do something in this realm.
• 24:06
  Carli: If I want to go into pediatrics, I need to see if I can handle it, and it was a test and I believe I passed it because it was successful and I was like this is truly something I want to do.
• 24:19
  Carli: Yes, it's hard work, but it's something that I come home proud of myself, I feel proud of my campers, and that's all that you can ask for in a career.
• 24:28
  Carli: You know, yes, it's hard work and it can be hard at times.
• 24:34
  Carli: You know waking up and you're like man, like I don't know if I want to.
• 24:36
  Carli: You know dance and stuff for an hour today, but like you still do it because you know I love those kids and I would do anything for them.
• 24:45
  Carli: I love those kids and I would do anything for them and I knew that if I can have a career where I get to do stuff like that and see that progress, that's all I can ask for.
• 24:54
  Carli: And it just felt like that beautiful click of that final piece of the puzzle where I was like, yes, this is what I want to do.
• 25:01
  Carli: And that's such a satisfying feeling because, like we talked about, there's all those things and that come into the whole picture of it and I am very happy with that decision to decide to work there and it truly just helped solidify that decision that I wanted to do OT.
• 25:23
  Mary: Well, and that can branch off to on with the idea of if there is somebody in college who isn't quite sure, do the work get an internship.
• 25:34
  Mary: So I mean, a lot of majors require it, but do the work test it out, because theory in a classroom is way different than real life and you talked about that.
• 25:45
  Mary: It's really a different kind of intimacy.
• 25:48
  Mary: When you are working with somebody physically, you're in their space and you know when it is young, young kids that might have issues where you need to do some cleanup, right it's, it's pretty, it's pretty intimate in a different way.
• 26:05
  Mary: So very cool that you actually tested.
• 26:08
  Mary: You tested the theory, tested the evidence.
• 26:10
  Mary: Here's what I think I want to do.
• 26:11
  Mary: So it's really nice to have that sense of being sure.
• 26:15
  Mary: So I'm going to turn a little bit, take a little bit of a detour into onto a different path.
• 26:20
  Mary: When you got to college I mean I think we all have an idea what it's going to be like you knew, you liked the city itself, but was there anything that you experienced once you were enrolled in college that surprised you?
• 26:33
  Carli: Not necessarily surprised me.
• 26:35
  Carli: I think the culture of school and college is something that is different.
• 26:43
  Carli: Like you described in your intro, it is that whole new realm of freedom and I never had necessarily strict parents, but I was always a very well-behaved kid.
• 26:52
  Carli: I was never doing anything really out of the lines.
• 26:55
  Carli: And you have this whole thing where it is simple, things like, oh, I can stay up till 3 am and sleep until 1 pm and my mom's not going to be like Hello, are you alive?
• 27:06
  Carli: But also those things of like do I go to class this day?
• 27:11
  Carli: Do I go to this party?
• 27:13
  Carli: Do I talk with this person?
• 27:16
  Carli: There's a lot of little things and especially during orientation week, freshmen are kind of thrust into this.
• 27:23
  Carli: You know huge environment and pits, a giant school for those that don't know, and so I have like thousands of people in just like my class and so you do these social things and you do like the orientation stuff and you're trying to meet your group and everyone is just trying to make friends.
• 27:44
  Carli: So you know everyone's super social and stuff.
• 27:47
  Carli: During those first few weeks Everyone makes their group quote, unquote.
• 27:50
  Carli: But what happens when that group doesn't work out?
• 27:53
  Carli: You know that was an experience that happened to me.
• 27:57
  Carli: I had my group that I met in that beginning of the week and it didn't work out.
• 28:05
  Carli: It was not the right group for me.
• 28:07
  Carli: So I think it's just you go into this with this idea that, like you're going to make your best friends in this very first week and they're going to be, you know, your sisters for the rest of your life or you know brothers, whatever, and it's not always like that.
• 28:22
  Carli: I made friends sophomore year and junior year and still senior year, and it's just this idea that, like you can't close yourself off to new people or new opportunities.
• 28:33
  Carli: And that is something that surprised me, I think, was just like how people found the group.
• 28:38
  Carli: And they were just kind of like how people found the group and they were just kind of like then everyone was over it and it was like wait, what?
• 28:43
  Carli: Like I don't have my group, like what are you talking about?
• 28:46
  Carli: Type of thing.
• 28:47
  Carli: So that was kind of a hard pill to swallow at first, I think.
• 28:51
  Mary: Yeah, and you strike me as pretty social, like you can make those connections.
• 28:55
  Mary: But that's a big hurdle for a lot of college freshmen.
• 28:59
  Mary: And again we mentioned you were in the same school district your whole life.
• 29:03
  Mary: So unless somebody moved in, there weren't new people to get to know.
• 29:06
  Mary: And if there were, you were in the majority, right, they were the new person.
• 29:10
  Mary: So when you're walking into a residence hall or a classroom or a social event and they're all strangers, that can be really tough.
• 29:22
  Mary: And yes, there's another, sometimes unrealistic expectation that, oh, whoever I connect with, first they're going to be my people and as you get to know them it's like not so much.
• 29:36
  Mary: And then you have to navigate that right, that distancing.
• 29:40
  Mary: Connecting to other people heaven forbid, they're a roommate, so that's a whole other podcast.
• 29:47
  Mary: But yes, that can be really challenging because you're also pulling together people that have way different, diverse backgrounds.
• 29:57
  Mary: That again, as you mentioned, where you and even I grew up, there wasn't a lot of diversity, and so that can be really cool and refreshing, but it can also be a huge learning experience to how do you connect and build bridges between all these different types of people.
• 30:14
  Mary: But did you ever feel like there were different expectations for you as a female.
• 30:21
  Carli: I feel like Pitt is a very diverse school and it is more of a liberal school for the most part.
• 30:28
  Carli: I never really felt like a huge gap.
• 30:30
  Carli: However, when I first read this question, something that did pop into my mind was I took a course about two years ago and I had this professor and he was kind of out there.
• 30:42
  Carli: He was a little bit strange and you know, that's fine, wasn't really an issue.
• 30:45
  Carli: So we were doing these presentations on some type of social issue, cultural issue, something like that, and my group had decided it was like based on a book and stuff too, or a piece of media.
• 30:58
  Carli: And so my friend had read this poem or this like group of poems.
• 31:03
  Carli: It was called the husband stitch and it was basically about like how women give birth and stuff and if they like tear then they would be like stitched up and stuff and it's like for the husband.
• 31:14
  Carli: So we were doing this presentation on that and in the very beginning there was technical issues.
• 31:20
  Carli: For some reason the cord was not plugging in right, it was not broadcasting to the little TV thing that we were using and our teacher just got super upset with us, like it put a whole tone on the class where it was just very uncomfortable.
• 31:33
  Carli: We could tell like he was just not using appropriate language and stuff with this thing.
• 31:37
  Carli: And obviously it wasn't our fault, like if it was our fault and we messed up the actual presentation, we would take accountability for that.
• 31:44
  Carli: But the presentation hadn't even started and now there's this whole weird tone in the room where people are like, well, this is awkward type of thing, so it kind of messed up our whole presentation that we had worked hard on.
• 31:56
  Carli: And it made me mad because I was like well, we have had two guys in this class who look like they just spent five minutes on their project and you didn't seem to care at all.
• 32:05
  Carli: But you can tell we worked hard and you're going to berate us on this for a technological issue.
• 32:10
  Carli: And we go back to our desks after and my two group mates who were two of my really close friends at the time they were upset and I was like, listen, like this is, this is kind of BS.
• 32:20
  Carli: Like pardon my French.
• 32:21
  Carli: I was like this is ridiculous.
• 32:23
  Carli: We didn't do anything wrong and I'm not the type of person where I will automatically try to stick up for myself, but I saw that it upset them and I was willing to, you know, do something about it.
• 32:35
  Carli: So as we're leaving, I go up to him and I'm like, hey, I just want to let you know that was extremely inappropriate of you to do.
• 32:41
  Carli: I was like, you know, that wasn't our fault and you saw our presentation and you know you did well, but it ruined it for the rest of the class because of how you spoke to us in the beginning and I was like that wasn't okay.
• 32:51
  Carli: And he tries.
• 32:52
  Carli: He's like oh, I didn't did what you did and that's just what it is.
• 33:05
  Carli: And I walked out.
• 33:06
  Carli: And then the next class he comes up to us and he's like I'm really sorry and stuff like, and I was like what's too late?
• 33:08
  Carli: Now it's too late.
• 33:08
  Carli: And then we had to review other presenters and ours was the highest rated.
• 33:10
  Carli: So that was like always nice to have.
• 33:12
  Carli: But I was like, yeah, like you yelled at us, yeah, we had the best one, and there's other people in the class that you know didn't do anything and you don't seem to care.
• 33:20
  Carli: I'm like why were you so quick to get mad at us, type of thing.
• 33:23
  Carli: So I don't know if that's like a different expectation, but that's just this anecdote that I think about.
• 33:27
  Carli: With things like that, it's definitely more quick to anger, more quick to question as a female for sure.
• 33:34
  Mary: Well, and that standing in your space and speaking that truth, we'll say you were speaking your truth, but interestingly, you qualified it by saying well, it was easier because these girls were upset or my friends were upset, so it's easier for you to take that stand, maybe when there's other people involved.
• 33:55
  Mary: Do you think if it had just been you, if it was only your presentation, do you think you would have said anything?
• 34:01
  Carli: I don't think I would have.
• 34:02
  Carli: Honestly, I think I would have been upset by it and I probably would have called my mom and cried after, but because I saw how much it upset them and I was upset too, but I was able to do it for them instead of, like selfishly, doing it for myself.
• 34:16
  Carli: I guess I don't know if selfish would be the right word, but yeah.
• 34:20
  Mary: Yeah, self-advocacy is what I would say.
• 34:22
  Mary: But again, you know, there's where some of that socialization comes in, that when it's just us as women, sometimes it's easier to just go along, like go along to get along or get along to go along, whatever the saying is.
• 34:38
  Mary: But there's a lot of strength in numbers.
• 34:39
  Mary: So, when women can support each other, and not just in a shared endeavor like what you had, but I think in life in general, there's a lot of strength in that, because you just set an example and, although I don't know if anybody heard what you did, it also sends a message of look, you can actually speak your mind even to somebody where there's a power differential.
• 35:07
  Mary: And there I know there are many, many, not just women but guys that would not have confronted a professor.
• 35:16
  Mary: So that takes a special kind of strength and interestingly, you were able to find that because you were doing it for the good of the whole instead of just yourself.
• 35:27
  Mary: As you can see, I've pulled like the gender thread on so many things.
• 35:30
  Mary: So was there anything that you wish you would have known or anything that you would tell your younger self if you could make certain decisions over again?
• 35:40
  Carli: Younger self, in the sense of even just in the beginning of college.
• 35:45
  Carli: I feel like I would tell myself a lot of different things.
• 35:47
  Carli: I mentioned that group and stuff that I first, you know, hung out with in the beginning.
• 35:53
  Carli: It caused my freshman year to be truly horrible.
• 35:54
  Carli: It caused my freshman year to be truly horrible, like I wanted to transfer, I hated, I hated Pitt, I was miserable and they made my life a living hell.
• 36:09
  Carli: And I often think to myself, well, if I just hadn't talked to them at the bus stop that one time you know we lived in the same building, yes, but I there are a lot of people lived in that building that I wasn't friends with, you know, and I'm like, well, if I just hadn't done that or hadn't done that, you know whatever, but it taught me lessons about friendship and trust and everything like that, but I would have never gotten if I hadn't experienced that.
• 36:31
  Carli: So, yes, I would have loved to not have been depressed my freshman year.
• 36:34
  Carli: That would have been great, but also, you't change it.
• 36:37
  Carli: So, if it was going to happen, I'm glad it did Because, like I said, I now have better friendships and I'm stronger than I ever would have been without those things.
• 36:49
  Carli: If I could tell really, really young me something I don't know, I feel like just speak your truth, more like be confident in yourself and that you are a good person and you are smart, and you don't have to hide any of those things for anyone, whether it would be, you know, a boy, or for conformity or for any reasons.
• 37:10
  Carli: I just wish sometimes we could just push ourselves a little bit and be like it's okay, like you're good as yourself.
• 37:16
  Carli: You know you don't have to conform to all these different things just because everyone else is.
• 37:21
  Mary: When you talk about your freshman year and saying you hated Pitt I'm glad that you said that that strongly, because I can't tell you how many freshmen I've had that say the same thing and to be able to make that decision.
• 37:37
  Mary: Is it truly my environment or is this truly a social issue where I'm going to learn, I'm going to get through it, I'm going to make it and again, there's nothing wrong with transferring from a social conflict.
• 38:02
  Mary: You know now, right, that that wouldn't have been the answer, because even though you wanted to get away from it, it would be a do-over.
• 38:05
  Mary: There's always conflicts in life and you strike me as someone who you sort of will wade in there if you have to right.
• 38:13
  Mary: You're not going to see a need or see someone in distress or see an injustice and just turn around and be like bye.
• 38:20
  Mary: You know you're going to actually want to address that.
• 38:24
  Mary: And the other interesting point I would make is I would see posts along the way on social media.
• 38:30
  Mary: A lot of them were your mom's, but to me it's like oh, carly is flourishing in every single aspect, and so I also want people to understand that what they see online is not the full story.
• 38:44
  Carli: Yes, absolutely my freshman year.
• 38:46
  Carli: I would post football games, like everything like that.
• 38:48
  Carli: And honestly, I had a great fall semester.
• 38:50
  Carli: It was the spring semester where all those issues were starting to crumble around me and the only reason why I did not transfer was because I had a lease signed and I didn't want to break that lease.
• 39:00
  Carli: And the only reason why I did not transfer was because I had a lease signed and I didn't want to break that lease and because that would have just been too much hassle and issue and stuff and I was like I just got to stick it out.
• 39:08
  Carli: It was hard.
• 39:09
  Carli: Like that first fall semester back after, I was so anxious all the time, I was so worried.
• 39:14
  Carli: I was going to see them and I did see them.
• 39:17
  Carli: I had class with one of the girls this past semester and you know, I on that first day I was like oh my God, you're, you cannot be serious.
• 39:25
  Carli: Like it's senior year, like I've somehow avoided having class with them for the last three years, but on this last year, of course, and but it was fine.
• 39:35
  Carli: I was like it's fine, you know.
• 39:37
  Carli: Like it's just, that's just how life is.
• 39:39
  Carli: We go to the same school.
• 39:40
  Carli: Like it's just life you can't run away from all of your problems and not, you know again, transferring.
• 39:46
  Carli: Sometimes that is the best choice for someone, but for me I'm so glad that I stuck it out because you're right, if you're running away from a social problem, it's just going to come back and probably the next school, you know Like, if you're not learning that lesson about what to do or what not to do in those situations, then how will you correct it in the future?
• 40:06
  Mary: Was that dynamic different with her when, now that you're a senior and had to be kind of in her orbit?
• 40:13
  Carli: I think it was because we both just kind of have this mutual thing where it's like, basically don't look at me, I won't look at you, we're just here to do class.
• 40:23
  Carli: Attendance is mandatory, we're both going to be here every Monday and Wednesday, and that's just the way it is.
• 40:29
  Carli: But honestly, I'm kind of glad I had it because I was like well, I actually don't have to have a pit of despair in my stomach every time I walk past them on the street now, because it's like you don't have that type of control over my life anymore, you know, and that's satisfying.
• 40:45
  Mary: Yeah, and I think that idea of empowering yourself.
• 40:47
  Mary: You know we easily give our power away when it's a situation like that.
• 40:52
  Mary: It's a power thing.
• 40:53
  Mary: Bullying is about power and it sounds like there were a bunch of them, you know, which makes it even more difficult.
• 40:59
  Mary: But when you can stand in that sense of power or or feel empowered with positive thoughts and knowing I have just as much right to be here.
• 41:08
  Mary: I have not done anything, that's sort of the path through sometimes, even though it's really hard.
• 41:14
  Mary: Okay.
• 41:15
  Carli: So last question If you were going to give women a top five so important to choose your friends wisely, the best friends that you're going to have are going to be fun but also be good for you, because, yes, there's strength in having a lot of different friends, but finding friends that are on the same page as you helps you to be on that right path.
• 41:55
  Carli: So it gives you a person that you can look to and be like.
• 41:59
  Carli: These are our goals.
• 42:01
  Carli: We're going to do it.
• 42:03
  Carli: And kind of an underneath thing but also a second on the list is if someone is talking badly about other people in front of you, they're other friends.
• 42:14
  Carli: They are talking bad about you friends.
• 42:16
  Carli: They are talking bad about you.
• 42:17
  Carli: If you surround yourself with people that are negative, that are just rude to other people, that talk poorly about their friends.
• 42:29
  Carli: They're doing the same thing to you.
• 42:30
  Carli: You're not special, you don't get a pass.
• 42:31
  Carli: Someone's talking about their best friend from high school poorly to you.
• 42:34
  Carli: Why would they not be talking bad about you, the girl that they've only known for four weeks?
• 42:39
  Carli: My other thing would be a situation with guys is that if you are nice to guys, they will think that you are attracted to them.
• 42:49
  Carli: This is because in their mind, usually they will never be outwardly nice to a woman if they don't find them attractive.
• 42:59
  Carli: So you have to kind of have that you know weird balance in your head where you're like if you just compliment someone, they're like oh my God, she's in love with me.
• 43:08
  Carli: It's like well, I'm actually just trying to be polite, because in their mind they're like well, why would I compliment someone that I don't want to take home tonight?
• 43:15
  Carli: So I feel like that is something that has stuck with me ever since I've seen that little quote on social media.
• 43:21
  Carli: It is always something you have to watch.
• 43:23
  Carli: You have to be careful because people get wrong signals and if you do like them, okay, that's different, but you have to be careful.
• 43:30
  Carli: Another list I would do would be to talk to the people in your classes.
• 43:34
  Carli: They are people that are likely in the same major as you, people in clubs, especially.
• 43:39
  Carli: I joined like three and I ended up with one and now I'm the president of it.
• 43:43
  Carli: So you just keep doing the ones and you will find your groups in those people because you all have a mutual interest.
• 43:49
  Carli: So try to just have just one thing that you're going to outside of class, whether it's a sport or it is a club or an academic thing, like something that you are pushing yourself outside of, just being in your room.
• 44:03
  Carli: That is so important.
• 44:05
  Carli: Freshman year, I feel like, especially, is do not rot in your bedroom.
• 44:08
  Carli: Like go out and do stuff.
• 44:11
  Carli: Like you don't have to go out to a bar or a club or a party or something, but like go to a club or something, go to a lecture on whatever.
• 44:18
  Carli: Like at Pitt especially, it's a huge school, there's always something happening, and even at smaller schools there's more happening than you probably think there are happening.
• 44:26
  Carli: And then I don't know if it's been five, but my last one would be be proactive in advocating for yourself, because no one's going to do it for you.
• 44:35
  Carli: You are in charge of yourself in college.
• 44:37
  Carli: Your mom and dad aren't looking over your shoulder.
• 44:38
  Carli: You're the one that is in charge of your future.
• 44:42
  Carli: It's great to have social things in college, obviously, but you are there to get your degree.
• 44:46
  Carli: So that's always just been important for me, with all the different examples we've said during this.
• 44:51
  Carli: You are the person that has to advocate for yourself.
• 44:54
  Carli: You have to be proactive in standing up for yourself and being confident and just surrounding yourself by people that actually bring you joy and lift you up.
• 45:03
  Mary: Yeah, and so you said so many things that I want to respond to.
• 45:07
  Mary: So the most recent what you just said.
• 45:10
  Mary: Of course, when working in a college, you do hear the frustration from parents about not being able to access some information on their students, their grades.
• 45:20
  Mary: That is frustrating, especially if you're paying the bill and you feel like you should know all of that.
• 45:26
  Mary: But I'm going to say to parents allow your child to flounder sometimes, because if you bail them out with everything or you nag them about those grades, they're not going to learn to stand fully on their own two feet.
• 45:43
  Mary: You know, we know how important grades are right, but if you're nagging and nagging, the lesson doesn't get learned.
• 45:50
  Mary: If somebody fails a class and has to repeat it and then they have to pay for it or they don't get the job they want because their GPA is average or lower for certain things, you know there are natural consequences that teach us the lessons and there are many parents who want to intervene.
• 46:07
  Mary: They're really uncomfortable with their child struggling and I can only imagine how your mom felt your freshman year.
• 46:14
  Mary: Knowing her, I can imagine the heartache that she carried around knowing that you were struggling.
• 46:21
  Mary: But you made it and she is not a mom that's going to swoop in in situations.
• 46:27
  Carli: I'm sure she listened a lot right and she was she listened to me cry in the cafeteria on FaceTime and stuff and she always said she was always supportive.
• 46:35
  Carli: She said, you know I will come pick you up right now, type of thing, you know.
• 46:39
  Carli: But she also knew that it eventually was going to be okay and I feel like it's that trust and stuff that your child will come to you if they're truly struggling.
• 46:49
  Carli: You know, hopefully if you have that relationship I do with my parents, but yeah, you're right that nagging and stuff it just will push them in the opposite direction.
• 46:58
  Mary: And two.
• 46:58
  Mary: I mean I think some parents are really concerned because mental health issues are real right.
• 47:03
  Mary: So if someone is showing the depression or a lot of crying or a lot of anxiety, yes, you do need to pay attention to that.
• 47:10
  Mary: And I will say every college has a counseling center.
• 47:14
  Mary: Not that it's easy to access it, because I'm going to tell you in the middle of the semester there can be a wait list.
• 47:20
  Mary: But if you're going to advocate as a parent, it would be to get your child the supports they need on that campus to help them be okay and help them to be successful.
• 47:33
  Mary: The other thing you said in the beginning about friends really we are the reflection of the five people closest to us.
• 47:40
  Mary: So when you think about your friend group, or even you know if your sister is one of those, or even your mom is one of those five key people, what kind of people are they?
• 47:50
  Mary: Because your relationships are predicated on who you're surrounding yourself with.
• 47:56
  Mary: So that's really powerful.
• 47:57
  Mary: And the last thing I would respond to a little bit is the idea of the male-female interaction, and I've heard from a lot of females what you've said and I will say most males mature out of that and I don't want to paint them all with the same brush.
• 48:18
  Mary: But this goes back to again the theme of gender.
• 48:22
  Mary: When you're socialized as a male versus socialized as a female and we see what kind of movies, especially comedies, are out there and what those relationships those I'll say heterosexual relationships look like, because we also want to be very clear that that is not everyone's preference, right.
• 48:39
  Mary: But when we look at those interactions there are a lot of guys they don't know any different and I'm not making an excuse for them, but they seriously read the signs totally wrong and then wonder why women kind of pull the shutters closed, right, like they give the cold shoulder.
• 48:58
  Mary: So there's a lot of education that can go on in the college setting for both males and females in navigating these relationships where you need to be clear that being friendly does not mean I want you to spend more time with me in a different way.
• 49:14
  Mary: You know all of those kinds of things.
• 49:16
  Mary: So you brought up some really good points.
• 49:18
  Mary: So think about who you connect to.
• 49:21
  Mary: If a relationship doesn't feel right, then it's probably not right for you.
• 49:26
  Mary: It's okay to change your path, change your major, even change your school, but go into it realistically, expecting that you're going to have some conflicts with people and building those skills.
• 49:34
  Mary: A great way to do that is through the counseling center realistically expecting that you're going to have some conflicts with people and building those skills.
• 49:37
  Mary: A great way to do that is through the counseling center.
• 49:41
  Mary: There are so many supports, career center, so learn what those are.
• 49:46
  Mary: And Carly mentioned clubs, and not clubs like dance clubs or bars, but social clubs like Dungeons and Dragons or a movie club or outdoor club, like.
• 49:56
  Mary: There are so many things.
• 49:58
  Mary: If there's not something that lights you up, then start it.
• 50:01
  Mary: Find a faculty advisor and start it.
• 50:03
  Mary: So if you're choosing to go to college, think about what you're going to get from the entire experience.
• 50:10
  Mary: You're getting the degree, but what happens between all of that, all of that academic stuff?
• 50:17
  Mary: That's where I think the sweet spot is.
• 50:20
  Mary: That's where you're learning and growing.
• 50:23
  Carli: Absolutely.
• 50:24
  Mary: Well, thank you so much for joining me today, Carly.
• 50:28
  Carli: Thank you so much for having me.
• 50:29
  Carli: It's just like really incredible to talk about.
• 50:33
  Mary: Yeah, it was so fun to talk to you and I told her when she came on to the Zoom.
• 50:38
  Mary: I'm like, oh my gosh, you look exactly the same as when you were 10.
• 50:41
  Mary: So this was really fun.
• 50:43
  Mary: This was really fun and I want to thank all of you for listening.
• 50:46
  Mary: If you enjoyed today's show, please comment.
• 50:48
  Mary: I'd love to hear your thoughts on this topic or your suggestions for future guests or topics, and if you'd like to send comments or questions directly to me, check for a link in the show notes or find me on the Buzzsprout app and you can text me directly.
• 51:03
  Mary: Even though I can't answer those texts, I may, who knows, mention something in one of my shows, but it's a way that if you want to send a more private comment, you can do that and also consider following my show so you don't miss a thing.
• 51:16
  Mary: But for now, go out into the world and be the amazing, resilient, vibrant Violet that you are.
• 51:23
  Mary: Hey, just a quick note before I take you to the outro.
• 51:27
  Mary: I created a top 10 list of what women need to know before starting college.
• 51:32
  Mary: This can be a great resource for young adults and an excellent conversation starter for moms or dads and daughters.
• 51:38
  Mary: Check the link in the show notes for the free download.