Latest / Rugby Rivals - Sir John Kirwan & Victor Matfield / ABs & Boks Rivalry Intensifies! Will South Africa Bounce Back?

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ABs & Boks Rivalry Intensifies! Will South Africa Bounce Back? · Rugby Rivals - Sir John Kirwan & Victor Matfield

0:00
I was calling the biggest game of the century.
0:02
The biggest game needs to be Street 3 and unfortunately we didn't get it.
0:05
Is this side past that's based?
0:09
I do think these one or two players that's really under pressure
0:14
is they still good enough to play for the box.
0:16
I thought we were incredibly dominant for 60 minutes
0:20
but we didn't put enough points on.
0:22
Australia is going to be a difficult team.
0:24
I think they're building something there that's really special.
0:27
I think they'll actually go into the next stage match pretty confident.
0:30
This is the biggest game for the All Blacks for a long long time
0:33
because if we win this game we win the next World Cup.
0:41
So very exciting it's an episode of Rivals today.
0:45
Two of us, one of us not so much.
0:47
Victor, you're looking forward to the today show?
0:51
Yeah, it's been a day or two to get over
0:55
the shock of a defeat first one in five games.
1:00
Pretty tough for the South Africans and it's actually
1:05
interesting walking in South African.
1:07
Everyone coming up to what's wrong?
1:09
What did we do wrong?
1:10
I'm like, we played New Zealand in New Zealand.
1:13
We're not supposed to be in there.
1:15
It's like once every 10 games maybe that we get a victory there.
1:19
So the guys were still in the game.
1:21
It was a slow start.
1:23
I actually had a look at those first two tries
1:26
and we actually need to give credit to the All Black coaching staff.
1:31
I think every defensive system, every line-out system,
1:34
squad strings and weaknesses and on both of them.
1:37
I mean, the first line-out, they went full line-out.
1:40
They knew if they were going to give that first pause.
1:43
South Africa is going to rush.
1:45
Ovalila Ru will be isolated to the back.
1:47
Perfect keep by Bowdoin Barrett.
1:49
Unfortunately, Ovali slipped as well over.
1:53
The guy that took the ball also tried.
1:55
In the second try as well.
1:57
With the way South Africa defends,
1:59
with the two bots at the back almost forcing you into the front ball,
2:02
Malcolm Marx needs to look at the bailout in the front of the line-out.
2:07
The one weakness you've got is if you go up at the back
2:11
and that front foot needs to or the back foot needs to chase that,
2:14
the overthrow of the inside ball is always the one weakness.
2:18
And I mean, they planned it, worked.
2:20
So two planned moves because of the way South Africa defends.
2:24
So you have to give credit to them.
2:26
And yeah, from there, I think South Africa got back into the game.
2:31
Unfortunately, just too many areas and the line-out was a big problem
2:35
with South Africa as well.
2:37
HK, you don't need to evict us summed up the game perfectly.
2:40
It's all done.
2:41
Yeah, no, yeah, like I've got to cut the things up.
2:45
But actually, Victor, I brought you a present, mate.
2:49
Actually, no, that's not how to actually.
2:52
Okay, okay, it's got it.
2:54
That's not it.
2:55
I had brought it.
2:55
It's been a week, mate.
2:57
Make sure you keep the time we will be sitting again.
2:59
I'm just saying, oh, there we go.
3:00
This is a real present, mate.
3:01
This is a real present.
3:02
I see what I see.
3:04
See, that's what I hope.
3:05
I need that this morning.
3:07
I said to myself, African-Franconus,
3:09
and now he's been trying to help me sell my house
3:12
as a good South African boy.
3:13
And he said, mate, you can't talk badly about this,
3:17
what do you call it?
3:17
Clippers.
3:18
Clippers and Coke.
3:19
Clippers and Coke.
3:20
Clippers and Coke, mate.
3:22
So I was going to crack one of those open
3:24
in your, in your honor, mate.
3:25
I'm going to, please, please, I need that this morning
3:29
at facing everyone in the streets.
3:33
Yeah, look, I think, you know, my summary of the game,
3:36
obviously I was, I was a static.
3:37
And this is no disrespect to, to you or the,
3:40
or the South African public, mate.
3:42
But like, it was probably the biggest game.
3:44
I was calling it the biggest game of the century,
3:46
right, for a number of reasons.
3:48
We haven't beaten you for a long time.
3:51
I think what you said about the coaching staff was good.
3:54
They are under incredible pressure.
3:56
If they had, if we had have lost that game on the weekend,
3:59
at Eden Park, with what was up for grabs,
4:02
I think the coaching staff would have come under
4:05
an incredible amount of pressure.
4:07
There's enough pressure on them when they lost, right?
4:09
And I agree with you.
4:10
I think that worked out, you know,
4:14
some of the weaknesses within the system,
4:16
that South Africa are running.
4:18
And put that, I disagree with you.
4:21
I thought South Africa were really, really poor for 60 minutes.
4:25
And they were poor because of their individual skill.
4:28
Now, poor down just before the game, right?
4:31
But their individual skill under pressure,
4:33
and I think we created that, but that pressure,
4:37
and then the skills not coming sort of off,
4:41
so the lack of skills kept us in the game.
4:43
And I thought we were really good for 60.
4:45
And then the last 20, we're all, you know, worried
4:49
because the team started to come back,
4:51
started to tidy up their individual skills,
4:54
went back to, you know, some pretty hard running,
4:56
getting over the advantage line.
4:58
So, you know, I think for us,
5:01
and this is a question for you, Victor,
5:04
we were under pressure for all the things
5:07
that last Saturday stood for.
5:08
But now I think South Africa is under pressure.
5:11
You know, if we win this week,
5:13
then I think people are going to be asking this,
5:15
like Christian, is your team too old?
5:18
Are we doing the right thing?
5:19
You know, we've had all this for the last two weeks,
5:22
as a selection right?
5:23
But now the pressure comes on, on, on you guys.
5:26
And I think this is the biggest game for the All Blacks
5:28
for a long, long time.
5:29
Because if we win this game, we win the next World Cup.
5:34
Yeah, it's still a long way away.
5:36
You, you normally win a lot of championship
5:39
and the name of the World Cup.
5:40
So, I think just calm down a little bit.
5:43
But, yeah, again, I think it's, and it's funny.
5:48
I mean, South Africa, Russia could have done nothing wrong.
5:52
It was Dr. Rackby, was Dr. Rasmus.
5:56
Everyone likes Rassies in your head.
5:59
One or two losses, and all of a sudden,
6:01
all the fans are like, is he the right guy?
6:03
And that's Rackby.
6:04
And unfortunately, it goes through the territory.
6:07
So, I still think, if you look at that game,
6:11
yes, we had the slow start.
6:12
And I think the first off, we weren't very accurate.
6:15
And like I said, the lineup was one of those big
6:19
problems for us.
6:20
If you think about that 50-22, that 100 kick just before half time,
6:24
that's what you want to, you want to use that pressure
6:27
and put it into points, convert it into points.
6:30
And unfortunately, with the lineup, you couldn't do that.
6:33
So, but in the second half, it just fell to me,
6:37
as if South Africa was starting to get their grooves back.
6:40
They were starting to win little moments.
6:42
They were starting to get momentum.
6:44
And I think they'll actually go into the next stage,
6:47
but pretty confident.
6:48
There will be a few changes.
6:50
You guys will probably play exactly the same team again,
6:53
except for the injuries.
6:54
But I think we will see a few changes.
6:57
And I think I really thought in that second off,
7:01
yeah, we lost the game, but I think we can be positive.
7:06
Normally, when you go to New Zealand,
7:08
you're just trying to hang in there.
7:09
And these guys believe they could come back in that game
7:12
and win that game, even though they were 14 points down.
7:14
And it's very hard.
7:15
So, I think we need to have a look at a few things.
7:19
I'm with you on the skills, some soft areas.
7:22
In the first half, I mean, in the first minutes,
7:24
Andre taking it to the line,
7:26
who asked to JC knock on immediately under prison.
7:29
That lead actually to the try.
7:31
So those are the little things that we need to sort out.
7:33
But I think it's going to be a very competitive test match
7:37
again this weekend coming.
7:39
I think, look, I think it was a competitive test match.
7:42
I think it came down to, you know,
7:45
like the critical moments.
7:46
I think what I was so pleased about was that,
7:49
A, I think our young guys stood up physically.
7:52
And I think that's fundamental against such a great physical side like South Africa.
7:57
And I thought our young guys did that.
7:59
I liked the changes in our team.
8:02
Right?
8:02
So what took my life for me is like he's like you, Victor.
8:06
He wants to call the line outs.
8:08
He's really competent there.
8:10
I thought his physicality was way better in the second row
8:14
because I felt that he was comfortable.
8:15
He'd gone back to the position he loved.
8:18
So, for me, I think the changes, you know, were really positive.
8:23
I felt sorry for him, not at all.
8:25
Who, you know, who got injured straight away,
8:29
which was pretty sad because he created that try, which was nice.
8:32
But I just, I think that if I can be perfectly honest,
8:37
you've got a mature side.
8:39
We've got a side that needs to learn to win those critical moments.
8:42
And why we might have been a bit conservative in the last 20 minutes.
8:46
We still hung on and there were some critical moments.
8:48
I think, you know, Rico, you're only holding up that try.
8:53
Those are the ones we needed to win and we won them.
8:55
So, I think the confidence and the coaching staff
8:57
and the confidence in the rugby team after that,
9:00
you've been through this, Victor, you know, this current team is,
9:04
I won't say, oh, because that's unfair on them.
9:06
You know, they've been through the mill, right?
9:09
And they know how to win those tight ones.
9:11
We didn't do that last year and we've done it in this game.
9:14
That's why I think this week's really, really important.
9:16
They're a couple of things like, you know,
9:18
you've always prided yourself on the line out.
9:20
And I think, I don't know what's going on there.
9:23
I still wouldn't take see it off.
9:25
I still wouldn't take him off.
9:26
I'd find another 10 or 15 minutes for him
9:29
because he ran off the other day
9:30
and I still don't think he was spent.
9:32
And I think there's a bit to do with that leadership,
9:35
with that calmness and the pressure that he brings.
9:37
So, that's how I saw it anyway.
9:40
Can I ask, Victor, obviously, the line-outs
9:43
is something you know a lot about.
9:44
What was happening in the line-outs?
9:47
Tuberva is very good at attacking the opposition line-out.
9:51
But that's not something we normally see from South Africa.
9:55
Yeah, it's actually, we've struggled last year as well.
9:58
In South Africa, you were very good at contesting as well.
10:01
And so, most of the teams in the world
10:05
do the spot system where they kind of give you the front ball
10:08
and it's always easy.
10:09
South Africa do the same.
10:10
They give you the front ball.
10:11
And I've always been someone that's against it
10:14
because although you give the front ball,
10:15
you can make plans of it.
10:17
I mean, you can shift it.
10:19
You can play, let your back loss forward, fall out.
10:22
He can be the playmaker.
10:24
So, there's a lot of things
10:25
and you don't feel the pressure at line-outs.
10:27
I mean, when we played,
10:28
we did pretty much what New Zealand's doing at the moment.
10:31
We never gave free ball.
10:32
And even if you don't steal the ball,
10:34
you then, the A, you pressure the ball.
10:36
So, a lot of the time, the library isn't good.
10:39
And that happened on Saturday as well.
10:40
Sometimes we got the ball at the back with Peter, Steve,
10:43
but because you guys are contesting,
10:45
the delivery is under pressure and it goes to ground.
10:47
And so, we always say, if you contest like that,
10:50
and you can get 30-40% of the ball,
10:53
not the levied wall to the 9th, actually, very successful.
10:56
And I said, by last year was outstanding.
10:59
I'd prefer him in the second row as well.
11:02
Very good on Saturday and he brought a lot of energy.
11:04
He were sacked up every time there was a positive for New Zealand.
11:08
And we're in the phases of South Africans.
11:10
So, I think that's something.
11:12
I feel the plans that South Africa is going into the games
11:16
on good at line-up time at the moment.
11:19
I think they don't understand the different defensive systems,
11:23
what you need to do when you get up against it.
11:26
So, I think that's something they need to work on.
11:28
And they've got guys.
11:29
I mean, Ron and Louis is great line-up callers.
11:34
It's just about, I think they're thinking too much about the play
11:38
and not first let's win ball and let's play off that.
11:40
So, yeah, it's difficult.
11:43
But on the positive side, I think South Africa scrum
11:46
were back to his base on Saturday.
11:49
I think that's something New Zealand will worry about.
11:52
I won't be surprised if we see a walker low that,
11:56
God, I said, turn over scrum that went into the drive.
12:00
He starts on the weekends and you get a guy like Thomas,
12:03
a toy that's more mobile off the bench.
12:06
And again, in the past,
12:08
Russy, we've very enjoyed his bombsquad.
12:11
At this stage, I don't think he's got the confidence.
12:13
But I think the guys that came on,
12:15
Janandra Kvistelz, which is as good when he came on.
12:18
So, we might even see some changes
12:21
then the front row for some of the more experienced guys coming
12:24
off the bench.
12:24
And we'll see that front row coming on with 30 minutes to go.
12:29
So, that's something that's a positive for me.
12:32
And, yeah, hopefully we,
12:34
and that's where I said on Saturday after the game.
12:38
The biggest game needs the best referee.
12:39
And unfortunately, we didn't get it.
12:41
After New Zealand got away with two, three scrum's in the first off
12:45
where they just got over extended where we didn't get the penalty.
12:48
And the first time Thomas, a toy,
12:51
me touches the ground penalty for New Zealand.
12:53
So, I think there was about three penalties that we didn't get.
12:57
And then another thing for me especially on the box kicks,
13:01
if New Zealand were really good on South African counter-run,
13:05
but on New Zealand ball, they were all on their knees and their elbows.
13:08
That's off the ground.
13:09
That should be penalties immediately.
13:11
So, you can't counter-run that.
13:12
That's, the rock is very long.
13:14
So, I think that's something that Drussi will definitely show the referee
13:17
as a referee in this weekend.
13:21
Totally disagree with that.
13:22
Victor, I thought the referee was really good for a couple of reasons.
13:25
Come on, South African, South African's invented ceiling off.
13:32
So, both teams are now ceiling off.
13:34
Everyone's ceiling off and they don't control it.
13:36
No, but you need to be on your feet.
13:38
You go and do on your knees if you're ceiling off.
13:40
Or if you make everything long.
13:42
Everyone's ceiling off, mate.
13:43
They don't control it, right?
13:44
So, I saw as many times South African ceiling off as we did.
13:49
So, what happens for me is if you get away with it,
13:52
you keep getting away with it.
13:53
It's the consistency that we want.
13:54
I thought the referee was consistent, right?
13:57
I do think, I do think he referees the attack more than anything.
14:02
Let's talk about, let's talk about consistency.
14:04
So, South African give a penalty away.
14:07
Quah-hah go around the corner to pick up the ball, yellow card.
14:11
New Zealand in the 22-15 or 10 minutes to go.
14:15
Gives away the penalty at the scrum.
14:17
The back scrum of the side.
14:18
We can go score on the left.
14:20
They come off side.
14:21
Second penalty in a row.
14:22
That should have been a yellow card as well.
14:24
Why wasn't that a yellow card?
14:25
Two penalties in a row.
14:26
Same.
14:27
That's not consistent.
14:30
I'll tell you why.
14:31
I'll tell you why because in the last 15 minutes of a game,
14:34
the referee also suffers from pressure.
14:37
And they don't make the big call.
14:38
That is fact.
14:39
But that's why you need the beast referees.
14:42
They will make the big call.
14:44
No, I think we need to change the law and I'll go back to the game.
14:47
Three penalties in a row.
14:48
You get a five minute yellow card or whatever it is.
14:51
Because if we leave it up to the refs, that also under pressure.
14:54
So for me, I thought he was consistent.
14:58
For me, I don't think he had a bad game.
15:01
I also liked the reason.
15:03
I also liked because one of the things I don't like about South Africa
15:07
when they play is when they try and slow it down.
15:10
But I thought the ref kept the pace in the game.
15:13
And it's tactical.
15:15
If I could get away with it, I'd get away with it.
15:17
So I thought he was pretty good.
15:18
I just want to go back to, I just want to go back to one of your,
15:22
because can you clarify this for an outside back, please?
15:25
So when you say that they're leaving the front available,
15:29
right?
15:30
And I get that and you can attack from the front.
15:32
And I would if I could.
15:34
What you're saying is you wouldn't leave any space
15:36
should attack everywhere.
15:38
Or if they're giving you the front, just take it and play.
15:41
Yeah, I think there's different
15:44
areas of the field.
15:45
So once you get into your own 22, then I'm happy with
15:48
give them the front ball because you can control them all.
15:51
You don't want them to go hard into the vacuum.
15:54
But when you're between the two from outside your 22,
15:58
I mean, you want to both pressure.
15:59
That was the one thing South Africa
16:01
were really good, good kicking game, both the pressure.
16:04
But you don't both pressure.
16:05
If you have a good kicking game, then you give the front ball
16:08
because then they can exit easy.
16:10
So when you use your kicking game,
16:12
you need to pressure the line out as well.
16:14
And at this stage, it's not happening.
16:15
We're not putting other teams.
16:17
We're giving them that front ball.
16:18
Yes, your defense are normally much stronger
16:23
because you've got the guys of the back.
16:25
But now like New Zealand, they caught us with that first one.
16:28
Because we give that front ball,
16:29
I'll hook her that's normally of the back of the line out
16:32
into the vacuum on the fence.
16:33
You need to check that bailout first.
16:35
So instead of the backs,
16:36
and normally you use your back lifter
16:39
because they can't get the back ball to fulfill that role.
16:44
Now New Zealand saw that pull that back guy forward.
16:47
Malcolm was offered to the front over inside balls.
16:51
So that's something that South Africa must know.
16:54
That's a weakness.
16:54
So actually our second guy in the back
16:57
should take that overthrow because you can't go wide from there
17:00
because it's at the line.
17:01
And you're inside your first guy out.
17:03
Should have the inside ball.
17:04
That shouldn't have been Malcolm Marx's tackle tonight.
17:08
But I mean, we give three ball even defensively.
17:12
We give teams three ball.
17:13
And I mean, you can't ball pressure.
17:15
And that's New Zealand ball pressure
17:17
where they line out at this stage.
17:18
They're contesting is so good.
17:20
They almost do the mirror man watch
17:23
where they don't give you any free ball.
17:25
So that the line out cooler can feel that pressure
17:27
at the whole time.
17:28
And he's not comfortable calling back ball
17:30
anything because he can feel that pressure.
17:33
So do you think that's a coaching philosophy issue?
17:37
Do you think it's the leaders on the field
17:39
not changing up quick enough?
17:41
No, that's a defensive coach.
17:42
So that's a defensive coach
17:44
that only worries about these defense.
17:46
And I mean, I've had this fight
17:49
helping Japan as well because of the defensive coaches.
17:52
They just want everyone in place.
17:54
Everyone in the same place.
17:55
But what they don't understand is it's like a scrum.
17:58
If the scrum is under pressure,
18:00
you don't worry about the attack.
18:01
Same thing with the line out.
18:03
If you can stop them there, put them under pressure.
18:06
Get them not to deliver the ball well.
18:08
Not get them to almost have a plan
18:11
because if I know I'm going to get the front ball,
18:13
then you can make plans around it.
18:15
Are we going to get into a certain area
18:17
because we know exactly what ball we're going to win?
18:20
If you don't know which ball you're going to win
18:22
and you're going to be under pressure with the delivery,
18:25
then it's very difficult to plan any moves, actually.
18:29
Do you agree with me with Ciano?
18:33
Luxia came off an injury
18:36
so he was actually not supposed to play this weekend.
18:38
He was actually only supposed to come back this weekend.
18:42
So I think fitness wise, they're a bit worried.
18:44
That's why they're full in.
18:46
But I mean, it's always been like that.
18:47
He's never played through.
18:50
And I mean with one of most of our games
18:53
with the same tactics,
18:54
I think there's some of the other guys in the team
18:57
that seniors that can take over the draw.
19:00
They're like, you've been under a JC.
19:02
All of those boys are there.
19:03
So I think they still got that leadership on the field.
19:08
But yeah, I've said it in the past.
19:10
You want your best players and your best leaders
19:12
to be on the field at the end of the game.
19:15
So it's my jacket Ricardo.
19:16
Going into this jacket, mate.
19:18
Thank you.
19:19
It was really good shopping for some important day.
19:22
A couple of things.
19:23
First of all, I think critical moment
19:26
would be a great drinking game.
19:27
Like it is, see the lot now in the podcast
19:30
and during the commentary.
19:32
So I think there's one.
19:33
But also the all blacks were desperate going into that game
19:37
to hold on to the red and park record.
19:40
Now South Africa is in a desperate situation
19:42
to win this next test.
19:44
Starting with you, J.K.,
19:45
how do the all blacks go into this test?
19:47
And then Victor, I want you to sort of explain
19:50
how the South Africans are going to go into this next test?
19:52
Well, I think the coaching,
19:56
the coaching philosophy about attacking
20:00
some weaknesses in the defense
20:03
and executing it well early
20:04
was how they need to go into this test.
20:07
So what will normally happen for me is
20:10
South Africa will go away,
20:11
Russia will go away and have a look at it.
20:13
They might talk about covering the front ball.
20:17
And so the coaching staff this week needs to realize
20:20
A, there's going to be a reaction
20:21
from South Africa to the where it is.
20:24
South Africans never give up.
20:26
And the next week they will be way more motivated.
20:29
So that's, you need to be ready for that.
20:31
The second thing is how do you put the doubt
20:34
into their mind straight away, right?
20:37
There's no doubt in their mind.
20:38
There's no doubt in their mind at all this weekend
20:40
and the better team won on the day.
20:43
But next week, how do you then start,
20:45
you know, if they're going to have further front ball,
20:48
what do we do, throw over the back?
20:49
So technically and technically,
20:51
I reckon you've got to really hit them early
20:54
and see if you can create a little bit of, oh wow,
20:56
you know, we'd practice that all week
20:58
and they've come with something else.
21:00
So I think from a coaching point of view,
21:01
a really smart week.
21:03
And I think for the all blacks, for me,
21:05
the motivation for us this week is,
21:08
you know, these guys are world champions.
21:10
If we could beat them twice at home,
21:13
you know, that's going to be a really,
21:15
really interesting psychological place.
21:17
So I think the motivation for this week
21:20
has to be constructed around that.
21:22
You know, easy to motivate the guys last week, right, Victor?
21:25
You know, we didn't want to lose at home.
21:26
Everyone's talking about it, the game of the century.
21:28
So everyone would have been on their go.
21:30
This week, it's really about just chipping away
21:34
at the confidence of the South African team.
21:36
So that's what I'd do.
21:37
I think this is a mess of going.
21:38
This is way more important than last week for me.
21:42
I think South Africa's mindset
21:43
will be pretty much the same as the previous.
21:46
I think we were desperate to win at Eden Park
21:48
so the mindset was there.
21:50
I think New Zealand's actually more dangerous
21:52
and I've said it before.
21:53
Once they get to remember,
21:54
they just wanted to win this game.
21:56
Now they will be confident.
21:57
I think we'll see them play a little bit more with freedom
22:01
because that's New Zealand.
22:02
They actually want to play a bit more,
22:03
but because they didn't win,
22:05
they was just about let's just win, let's just win.
22:07
So I think New Zealand might be a bit more dangerous this weekend.
22:12
But South Africa is there now.
22:17
There's a lot of questions in South Africa.
22:20
I still don't think we that far off.
22:22
I mean, going to Eden Park,
22:25
still be in that game,
22:26
being on the line in the last five minutes
22:28
to win that game isn't a bad performance.
22:30
So I still think we've got a coaching staff
22:35
that's really good, that understands the game.
22:37
They'll have a look at certain things.
22:39
They'll change a few things.
22:41
I do think there's one or two players
22:44
that's really under pressure
22:46
if they still good enough to play for the box.
22:48
And I think Russia will make those hard calls now.
22:51
So that's going to be important.
22:53
And the youngsters will give it,
22:56
will get a chance this weekend needs to come through.
22:58
So yes, South Africa will be desperate,
23:00
but I think they were desperate last week as well.
23:05
But it's going to be tough.
23:06
Boys, we're playing in New Zealand,
23:07
and that's what I'm trying to tell people.
23:09
You don't go to New Zealand off
23:12
on the way with some of their base teams
23:14
and you don't come away with victories.
23:16
So I mean, they've got a second chance
23:18
and they all feel they've beaten New Zealand twice last year.
23:21
And South Africa, if they can get this one,
23:24
it will be a successful tour.
23:25
And I think a lot of South Africans actually
23:28
wouldn't mind if we don't win the rugby championship,
23:31
but we get one victory over New Zealand.
23:32
That will be good enough for us.
23:35
And Jake, can you give me a special mention
23:37
about an all-black play, the 100th test?
23:41
And then at a critical moment,
23:43
came up with a big play, Adi Sabir.
23:46
Yeah, and when we spoke about,
23:47
we spoke about those guys being quiet,
23:51
you know, against Argentina.
23:54
And the X-Factor players stood up.
23:57
We'll Jordan with that,
23:59
you know, that tri-schooled on the inside.
24:01
Because the tackle was there,
24:03
and he got through it.
24:04
Because of pace and that sort of stuff,
24:06
I agree with Victor about defensively.
24:08
I thought Bowden was outstanding, right?
24:10
And for Adi, I think the beautiful thing about Adi
24:13
is Adi has paved the way.
24:16
That might be a little bit different
24:18
to most people, but he stayed true to himself.
24:21
And it was just such a fitting moment
24:24
that he got that tune over.
24:26
You're right, 100 games.
24:28
This is an incredible achievement.
24:29
You know, he's in a elite group of players.
24:32
And he has been one of our X-Factor players.
24:35
And when I talk about critical moments,
24:37
and when I talk about, you know,
24:40
when I talk about legends, Victor,
24:42
I say it's when, you know,
24:44
talent meets hard work,
24:46
then meets longevity, right?
24:49
So he's been around a long, long time.
24:51
He's consistently performed for us.
24:55
You know, you think about this, Victor.
24:56
Like, in my day, mate,
24:58
if I played on the left wing,
24:59
it's like someone had chopped my arm off.
25:02
I don't know what it was like for you
25:03
when you played, you know, in a different locking position.
25:06
But for me, it was like that.
25:07
Here's Adi that's played 6, 8, 7, you know.
25:11
He's playing in one position,
25:13
and then they put him into another position,
25:15
and he actually nails it.
25:17
So I think, you know, hats off to Adi.
25:19
I was so pleased we won for him as well,
25:21
Victor, I know it's tough when you lose,
25:25
you know, especially when they're South Africa and New Zealand.
25:27
But for Adi to win on such a special day,
25:31
and also keep that record intact,
25:33
you know, they would have just,
25:34
they would have been the happiest rugby team
25:36
for a long, long time.
25:37
And Adi, you know, is such a leader.
25:41
And it was really interesting listening to Rico,
25:43
you're only after the game saying,
25:45
you know, you're our spiritual leader on,
25:48
but more so off the field.
25:49
And so you can see that he's really bringing all those cultures together,
25:53
and I just think it's fantastic that we got the win for him.
25:57
Yeah, I just also want to give credit.
25:59
I mean, I've played with him with a barbarian,
26:02
so well, one of the most humble guys you'll ever get.
26:05
One of the nicest guys off the field,
26:07
but once you get onto the field, he's so competitive.
26:11
And you get guys, I don't know,
26:13
you get guys that can be competitive and still nice,
26:15
even on the field.
26:16
And he's one of those guys.
26:17
He just gives, he's everything he never gets involved in,
26:20
anything stupid.
26:22
He just goes out, plays his heart out,
26:24
leads from the front, and what a player.
26:27
I mean, he must be one of the best players in this last decade,
26:31
right up there with a base off the beast.
26:34
Yeah, for him to get that turn over in the last minute, he deserves it.
26:39
Although we lost, I almost felt good that it was him that got that turn over,
26:43
because he's such a unbelievable guy on an off the field.
26:48
So already, well done, you deserve it,
26:50
and what a rack we play, and even a better man.
26:54
Because the reality is, I mean, you know,
26:56
New Zealand's celebrating South Africa's commiserating,
27:01
but there was only a few points in it.
27:03
The two sides are very close.
27:05
So, you know, we've got to be careful, obviously,
27:08
that we don't go the other well and go,
27:10
everything's okay.
27:11
We're perfect.
27:12
We won.
27:13
And South Africa's got to be careful,
27:15
that they go, everything we did was wrong, because we lost.
27:18
So, you know, it's important to find that middle ground and be honest.
27:21
Would you imagine JK that after the celebrations,
27:23
the all blacks are looking at that tape,
27:26
or that's probably getting a bit old,
27:28
but the digital version of the game and going,
27:31
what can we do better?
27:34
Of course they are, mate.
27:35
I mean, like what we're talking about at this level,
27:38
like Argentina are an amazingly good site, right?
27:42
We saw that when they played Australia.
27:45
So, if you're going to be 3% off against Argentina,
27:50
you're going to lose, right?
27:51
If you're 2% off South Africa, you're going to lose.
27:56
We need to get better.
27:57
And I think they got the selection and the tactics right this week,
28:02
but they will have to work incredibly hard to come up with a new set of tactics
28:06
that you can implement,
28:07
and they're going to have to work twice as hard with a super motivated South Africa site.
28:11
So, the difference is incredible.
28:14
I thought we were incredibly dominant for 60 minutes,
28:18
but we didn't put enough points on,
28:20
and then South Africa were amazing in the last 20,
28:22
and nearly, you know, stole a draw.
28:24
And they would have deserved it if they had have done that, right?
28:27
So, this week is another week, right?
28:30
I think the biggest thing we need to do is find the balance from recovery,
28:35
because when you play any South African side, man,
28:37
it takes you two or three days to recover,
28:40
because it's so physical.
28:42
Like, you look at the guys after,
28:43
I mean, look at, you know, do Prasikarifi,
28:47
hit lucky and blab, you know, like black eyes,
28:49
you just break yourself playing against the physicality.
28:53
So, you can't do too much this week either,
28:55
because you've got to recover physically.
28:57
But we'll need to be way better tactically and technically,
29:00
and we'll have to implement the perfect game plan
29:03
to beat the World Champions again.
29:05
Simple as that.
29:07
Yeah, I think South Africa will make a few changes.
29:11
I think we'll definitely go back to the 6-2 bomb squad type of thing.
29:16
I think we need it.
29:19
I think a guy like Jasper Visas is going to bring something different.
29:22
He's carrying ability from eight.
29:25
We'll probably see Mark, we'll start and go back to the bench.
29:29
I would love to see Archer Sam, I'm also coming off the bench.
29:32
He just brings something different.
29:34
He's a big man.
29:35
He's got that offloading ability.
29:37
I don't know, the weather will probably so wet
29:40
in Wellington as well.
29:42
So, I don't know if you can see nice open rugby.
29:46
But it will be interesting to see,
29:48
if Rasi, Sam, I'll bring a guy like Mon in the book
29:51
back into it with a wake and attack.
29:55
And maybe start with an attacking game
29:58
and then bring someone like Andre of the bench to finish the game for you.
30:01
It will be interesting to see what Rasi,
30:03
but I mean, like J.K. has said,
30:07
I don't think Rasi has slept for the last 48 hours.
30:09
He will be going through that game over and over and over
30:13
and look for opportunities and we can do things different.
30:16
And I mean, I really believe him and Tony Brown
30:19
and all the guys around him, Felix Jones.
30:22
These boys will come up with a plan and they would be
30:25
desperate to get one victory in New Zealand.
30:28
And I mean, Wellington has been good
30:30
for South Africa over the last few years.
30:32
Although we can't win at Eden Park,
30:34
we've got a pretty good uproar.
30:36
I think our best record is at Wellington.
30:37
So, that will help as well.
30:40
Here's a couple of things that I've met.
30:44
Some pretty smart rugby brains just after I got off the phone from you.
30:48
Thank you, mate. I appreciate it.
30:49
That wasn't you, Riccata.
30:53
Well, you do know you're fully.
30:56
But this is what we're saying down here.
31:00
Is this side past its best, right?
31:04
And in 91, Victor, we went to the World Cup
31:08
and our team was coming off the top.
31:12
That was the first thing that we were saying in the after match.
31:14
Has this South African team passed its best?
31:20
Second thing is, is Russi's selection policy
31:25
of continuing to change guys?
31:27
Is that actually why they lacked the skill
31:30
because it was a combination thing?
31:32
Because they're always changing the side.
31:34
So, they were the two questions that,
31:36
like, most ex-all blacks were,
31:37
that we were talking about the game afterwards.
31:39
And they were the two solid conversations that were being had.
31:45
Well, I don't think...
31:46
I went through our team with someone actually on Sunday
31:51
and because one of my friends came to me as the guys to all
31:54
and I said, let's go through it.
31:56
From Lucid, we're auctioned in Chey,
31:58
we'll stop Deathly Stubborn.
31:59
Ferdart Steena Camp, our second-based Lucid is injured.
32:02
So, he's not there.
32:03
Janna Hendrick, vessels 23 years old,
32:06
sure what he can do when he came on Saturday.
32:08
Both our tactics at Splang at the moment is still young.
32:12
I mean, Rua Nortea's 24, he's coming through.
32:15
We've got a guy like Quibba's visa,
32:17
Jasper's visa's brother at four lock
32:19
that can step in at any time.
32:21
Stully Youngster, a guy like Cameron Hanakum,
32:24
one of the most exciting aches in South Africa
32:27
is injured at the moment.
32:28
He can come in and make a difference.
32:30
In Grant Williams's 23, Sasha's 23.
32:35
So, except for, I think, the centers.
32:38
We've got actually a very young team
32:40
that can go to the World Cup,
32:42
and they've all played 20, 30 test matches.
32:44
So, I think we're in New Zealand.
32:47
Only sitting with 24, 25th place,
32:50
Houston next place.
32:51
We don't know them.
32:52
I know they're still in, but we haven't seen them.
32:54
I still think we in a good position
32:57
with youngsters coming through.
32:58
It's almost just like trusting them
33:01
and giving them those opportunities
33:03
under high-precision situations.
33:05
And a guy like Janna Hendrick, vessels,
33:07
like him, for example,
33:09
he showed Rusty on Saturday
33:11
when he got on, he can make a difference.
33:13
So, I think, doesn't matter if he plays
33:14
over the bench or he's star or whatever,
33:16
Rusty will now have more trust in him.
33:18
So, he'll get more time.
33:20
And that's what you need.
33:20
And I mean, we still, two years away from the World Cup,
33:24
a lot of things can still happen.
33:25
And I mean, we do have those youngsters
33:27
and they all have played at this highest level.
33:31
So, we can go into the World Cup
33:32
with a younger team than New Zealand.
33:34
I don't think your team is that young
33:36
as well.
33:37
So, there's some guys that's been there for years
33:40
and I don't see, who's your young team?
33:43
I don't know.
33:44
So, there's also some questions
33:46
around the New Zealand team
33:47
and critical positions.
33:49
Do they have youngsters that can step up?
33:51
Yeah, good point.
33:54
You've shut us up with that.
33:55
Thanks, Victor.
33:57
What about the Australian Argentinian result?
34:00
So, you know, we're all,
34:01
last week just saying how amazing Argentinian is.
34:04
And then Australia comes into the depth and wins that game.
34:07
So, this is an incredibly close rugby championship.
34:11
How good.
34:12
I think that,
34:14
did you see that the move down the right hand side
34:16
was a move we used to do 100 years ago.
34:21
But I think Contapone has brought
34:24
way more to this current side.
34:25
I think they're way more complete.
34:27
I think the thoughts work hard.
34:29
They carry.
34:29
But I also think their attacking structures are really good.
34:33
You know, I think they're putting everyone under pressure.
34:37
I thought it was, I thought it was a done deal.
34:39
I think, I don't know, they ran out of steam.
34:42
But, but a discipline late.
34:43
But they are a very good side.
34:45
This is so close.
34:46
I mean, you know, it's anyone's competition.
34:49
And that's called, I still think Australia
34:52
haven't got their consistency sorted yet.
34:54
But when they play well now,
34:56
they're playing some great rugby as well.
34:58
So, if they can put an 80 minute performance together,
35:01
then it's going to be tough for the All Blacks as well moving forward.
35:05
But Argentina, you know, they can beat anyone, man.
35:10
Yeah, I think Argentina, you don't say that often
35:13
because it's normally New Zealand.
35:14
I think Argentina has the best attacking team in the world at the moment.
35:18
The way they attack is unbelievable.
35:21
But for me, Australia is going to be a difficult team.
35:28
I think they're building something there that's really special.
35:32
There's a character in that team that they haven't had for a long time.
35:35
I mean, if you think Alice Park, 21-0 down,
35:39
they came back to win that game by 15 points against at Newlands.
35:44
They were part of that game where I thought we were going to run away with it.
35:48
They just don't go away again.
35:51
Saturday against Argentina.
35:53
They under pressure in trouble.
35:55
They keep believing.
35:56
They just keep doing what they're doing and they get the victory.
35:59
And I think a lot of the time, if you get victories like they've done now,
36:04
that will so much confidence in a team.
36:06
And then you can develop your game as well because
36:08
you're starting to get used to winning.
36:10
You're believing in what you're doing.
36:11
You're believing in each other.
36:12
You're playing for each other that characters the team environment is good.
36:17
So I think Australia is a very dangerous team at the moment.
36:21
One of the players came out the other day, Ricardo,
36:24
and said they're absolutely loving Joe Smith's attention to detail.
36:30
And you've got to be able to pick the squad that gets you as a coach.
36:37
So that takes a little while, but it seems that the players that he's got now
36:41
are just really enjoying the way he's coaching.
36:43
And sometimes you can be over-detailed, right?
36:45
Victor, sometimes too much detail is clunch guys up.
36:50
Like you mentioned about, if you're thinking about the move that's structured,
36:55
sometimes you lose the line out.
36:56
So that balance is not either easy either.
36:59
I think the sad thing about Joe is he's leaving.
37:05
He's just starting to build something a couple of years out from the World Cup
37:08
and he's decided to leave.
37:09
So that's sad because I do think they're building something special.
37:14
Oh, Victor, let's see how if you have been happier next week,
37:19
another game, All Blacks, this is South Africa.
37:22
It's going to be another classic, two of the greatest rivals in any sport going hard,
37:26
head to head in the beautiful sunny Wellington.
37:29
And let's look forward to another game like we've just had.
37:32
So that will rugby rivals for another week.
37:35
We'll see you again next week.
37:36
Next week, I'll be sitting here with my brandy and celebrating with that in my hand this side.
37:43
Or still be thinking from the side, all right.
37:46
They won't stop it.
37:47
Just push right through.
37:48
It's all in one day meeting.
37:51
I'm going to have some of your clippies and go, oh, can't wait.