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When persecution comes · Cultural Wars | America Out Loud News

• 0:26
  Well, hello, everyone, and welcome to the 10 penny files.
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  I'm your host, Dr.
• 0:31
  Sherry Tenpenny.
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  There's so much material that we can talk about there, but I think you should just go to Prime Membership.com to learn more and hopefully you'll join our uh membership and support our work.
• 1:52
  Now, let's get started.
• 1:54
  Today's conversation is with successful trial attorney, the president of Save America Ministries, Pastor Radio Broadcaster, and uh of incredible author, Charles Chris Meyer.
• 2:07
  And we're talking about his book, When Persecution Comes, preparing hearts for perilous times, a sobering wake-up call to all followers of Christ for genuine heart preparation, providing hope during these perilous times.
• 2:22
  Charles, thank you so much for being with me today and joining me on the Tenpenny Files.
• 2:27
  Well, Dr.
• 2:28
  T, it's uh my pleasure.
• 2:29
  It is good to see your smiling face again.
• 2:33
  Well, thank you so much.
• 2:34
  And for those that didn't know, Charles did a four-part Bible series for us on drtenpenny.com that's still posted there, and it's available for anyone who wants more uh more Bible study and deeper learning.
• 2:46
  He did it on his book, The King of the Mountain, which was an incredible show.
• 2:51
  Um, we will have the link in the show notes below.
• 2:54
  But let's start talking about your book that were that you just most recently um talked to me about for today's show about persecution.
• 3:02
  The full spectrum of the book is primarily related to prophecies about the second coming of Christ.
• 3:08
  Please give us an overview of these perspectives.
• 3:12
  Well, I'll tell you, uh, Jesus himself said several times uh to his disciples and those who would follow him that uh if they persecuted me, they're going to persecute you.
• 3:24
  Why do you think you should be different than your Lord?
• 3:26
  In fact, in the uh Beatitudes, the Sermon on the Mount, we don't expect to find this there, but at the end of those Beatitudes, he said, Blessed are they uh you when men shall revile you and persecute you and say all manner of evil against you falsely for my sake, for great is your reward in heaven.
• 3:45
  So we're so persecuted they the prophets that were before you.
• 3:48
  Who would have ever expected that at the end of the Beatitudes?
• 3:51
  But that's exactly where it was.
• 3:53
  And uh so it's something that Jesus had on his mind on his heart, and certainly uh, as we're in this particular season now, uh, where we have uh been presented with uh the crucifixion and the triumphal entry to the cross and all of those things.
• 4:11
  You see, those were the manifestation of persecution.
• 4:15
  They indeed were, but out of the persecution came purpose.
• 4:20
  God had a purpose for persecution, and indeed that's what Jesus tried to convey.
• 4:25
  The Apostle Paul, the Apostle Peter, the Apostle John, the Apostle James all talked about this matter of persecution, so we can't avoid it.
• 4:33
  Well, you know, we're getting reports from all over the world that persecution of Christians.
• 4:40
  What is the reality of this persecution?
• 4:44
  And where's the most right now?
• 4:48
  Well, I'll tell you, uh, it's exploding everywhere.
• 4:51
  Uh, of course, we we know about persecution in Iran, but we also know that undergirding that persecution or underlying it is one of the fastest growing areas of the Christian community in the world through house churches.
• 5:06
  So the persecution is actually driving the church underground, and actually it's growing amid the persecution.
• 5:14
  That's what happened in the early days, in the early days of the church.
• 5:18
  The persecution arose and the church grew and uh spread throughout the Roman Empire until after about 200 years, uh, a fellow by the name of Constantine declared Christianity the religion of the realm.
• 5:33
  So uh persecution has its purpose and uh for us individually and for the greater kingdom of God.
• 5:39
  But we see persecution now emanating not only in the Middle East, where we would expect it because of the uh dramatic rise of Islam, uh, but also we find it spreading through Europe.
• 5:52
  We we uh it's on its way to the United States.
• 5:55
  In fact, it is in the United States.
• 5:56
  It just doesn't manage manufacture itself or manifest itself with people having their heads cut off or being thrown in prison.
• 6:05
  But uh actually their lives are being destroyed, their businesses are being destroyed in the name of shall we say, under color of law persecution.
• 6:15
  And so it's happening, it's happening here.
• 6:18
  Uh, and one of the problems that we have, uh, Dr.
• 6:21
  T is that uh in the Western world, particularly in America, we are so inured to a kind of uh peaceful coexistence.
• 6:31
  The idea that somehow everything is wonderful, everything's cool.
• 6:35
  Yeah, there are a few problems about there, but we're we're basically exempt from all of the other things uh that are happening in the world or that even Jesus and his disciples promised.
• 6:46
  That's why it was necessary for me to write this book uh when persecution comes.
• 6:51
  It doesn't say uh uh whether persecution comes, but when persecution comes, it is coming.
• 6:58
  Jesus said it was going to come.
• 7:00
  The apostles said it was going to come, and we need to be prepared.
• 7:04
  Why do you think Christians are so aloof about the likelihood of persecution coming here?
• 7:09
  I mean, I think we can embrace the fact that we hear about it in China and Iran and uh several African countries like Nigeria, but they think it's never going to happen here.
• 7:20
  Why do you think that is?
• 7:22
  It's because we have this exceptionalist idea.
• 7:26
  Uh it's it's both a political idea uh and it's a spiritual idea that somehow we're the exception to every rule in history, even God's rule.
• 7:36
  And so we think somehow that we can override what God has said, the things that have been promised uh to us in the world, and that somehow, because we're Americans, we're different than everyone else.
• 7:50
  Well, that is changing.
• 7:52
  It's changing very dramatically.
• 7:53
  For instance, just in the last couple of weeks, a uh Finnish member of Parliament came to the United States to testify before Congress concerning the persecution that's going on in Finland.
• 8:06
  That's the Western world.
• 8:08
  That's the Western world.
• 8:10
  He was a member of Parliament.
• 8:12
  In fact, she was not just a member of Parliament, she had been uh reigning over uh in an interior department in the government.
• 8:21
  But she had the temerity a few years ago to write a uh little piece concerning his her concern that her own church was submitting to the practice of homosexuality and the rule of uh sexual perversion from God's viewpoint.
• 8:39
  She said, This is not good, this is not right.
• 8:41
  Because of that, they brought a uh criminal case against her for a hate crime.
• 8:53
  He has gone through years of persecution over that, three different trials, and in each case, the case was concluded in her favor.
• 9:04
  But that was not enough for the prosecution.
• 9:06
  They took the case then to the Supreme Court of Finland, and just a few days ago, the Supreme Court of Finland decided, well, we're gonna end this, and we're gonna find her guilty of a hate crime.
• 9:19
  Because she actually wrote a little piece in her uh email, I guess it was, uh, to get the attention of uh of her church.
• 9:32
  So if you think that this isn't on its way, there's a reason why she came to the United States to testify before Congress, because Congress knows this is happening here and coming quickly.
• 9:43
  You know, they're trying to pass a law in Canada right now.
• 9:47
  I don't think it's been officially passed.
• 9:49
  I think they just floated the bill that you're no longer allowed to talk about the Bible in public.
• 9:55
  That if you talk about the Bible in public, it's considered a hate crime.
• 9:59
  Well, something
• 10:00
  Like that come to America.
• 10:02
  Well, yes, that's what I'm talking about.
• 10:04
  That's what happened in Finland.
• 10:06
  You see, she it wasn't it was one thing to talk about the Bible.
• 10:09
  It was it's another thing to talk about the what the Bible has to say about woke issues.
• 10:16
  You see, like uh sexual issues, uh, homosexuality, uh, transgenderism, uh all of these issues, even pederasty now uh to talk about that is a virtual hate crime in some areas.
• 10:32
  So what Canada is doing is basically confirming that which they have already been practicing now for years, to the point where even Christian ministries, large Christian ministries in this country that had radio and television programs, changed the language in their programs as they went to Canada so as not to run afoul of their restrictions.
• 10:59
  It's been going on now for some time, it's just accelerating.
• 11:03
  Why is the Lord withholding his judgment from these places?
• 11:07
  You know, it's like how you know, there's like I pray frequently say, Lord, how long will you tarry?
• 11:12
  And put no well, that's a good question.
• 11:15
  I mean, uh, if God is a father, how long is he going to allow his fatherhood uh to cease from bringing a serious uh retribution uh judgment uh on these nations?
• 11:28
  Well, here's the answer.
• 11:30
  Uh in the book of Peter, first Peter, uh, he talks about the uh the delay.
• 11:38
  People were saying, well, why is the Lord delaying concerning his coming?
• 11:43
  And he said, it's not that the Lord is delaying concerning his coming in that sense, but it's that he is patient and not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
• 11:55
  In other words, he's allowing these things to play out and giving the full measure of opportunity, mercy.
• 12:07
  It's not his grace that is allowing it, it's his mercy.
• 12:12
  His grace is what is extended to us to enable us to do his will, to enable us to to uh obey his voice.
• 12:21
  That's what his grace is for.
• 12:22
  He says, My grace is sufficient for you in those situations, but his mercy is being extended to the world uh for such a time as this until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in, when the fullness of the Gentiles has come in, just as the fullness of Israel, when God shifted the focus to the Gentile world, then he will bring uh his judgment upon both Jew and Gentile.
• 12:48
  Well, Charles, in your um amazing assessment of world events and and you know, through your radio show and all of your study.
• 12:56
  How close are we to the fulfillment of that?
• 12:59
  Do you think?
• 13:01
  Everybody wants to know that.
• 13:03
  Everybody wants to know that.
• 13:05
  Well, here's the deal.
• 13:06
  I'm going to give you my best assessment.
• 13:09
  First of all, the end times began at the crucifixion and resurrection of Jesus and the outpouring of the Holy Spirit 50 days later on the day of Pentecost.
• 13:18
  That was confirmed by the Apostle Peter in Acts chapter 2, uh, who repeated the prophecy of Joel, uh, who said that in the last days I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh and so on.
• 13:29
  That began at the day of Pentecost, 2,000 years ago.
• 13:33
  Well, approximately 2,000 years ago.
• 13:36
  It was approximately 30 AD.
• 13:39
  It is believed that Jesus was born in 4 BC, during the reign of Herod the Great.
• 13:45
  Well, if that be the case, then he was crucified and rose again around 30 AD.
• 13:51
  That's when the end times began.
• 13:55
  The Bible says that after two days, I will raise them up, and the third day they shall live in my sight.
• 14:04
  Now it was talking about Israel.
• 14:07
  Two days, a day with the Lord is of the thousand years, a thousand years is a day.
• 14:12
  So if you take two days, that's two thousand years.
• 14:16
  Two thousand years from the the year 30 AD would take us where?
• 14:21
  Come on, mathematician.
• 14:25
  Oh, I know it caught you off guard.
• 14:28
  I know.
• 14:29
  See, 2,000 years from the 30 AD would take us to 2030 AD.
• 14:35
  Oh, wow.
• 14:36
  How far is that from today?
• 14:38
  Four years, four and a half years.
• 14:41
  Are you beginning to get the picture?
• 14:43
  Now I'm not here to tell you that the Lord is going to return on at 2030 AD.
• 14:49
  We're talking about the season now.
• 14:51
  Okay.
• 14:52
  We see seasons they come in, they edge in, they come here or there a little there, they warm and then they get cold and they warm and they get warmer and then colder and so on.
• 15:01
  That's how the season is approaching.
• 15:03
  And we see that happening.
• 15:05
  The book of Ezekiel talks about the latter days.
• 15:10
  That in the latter days there will be a war called the battle of Gog and Magog.
• 15:15
  And in those latter days, there will be a secret attack by a group of nations that are uh specified in Ezekiel chapter 38.
• 15:24
  They will attack Israel to take a spoil.
• 15:27
  When in the latter days, not the last days, but the latter days of the last days hasn't happened yet.
• 15:36
  Hasn't happened yet, but it's going to happen.
• 15:40
  How soon?
• 15:41
  Can't tell you.
• 15:42
  Then there's a third period of time, and that's called the day of the Lord.
• 15:47
  The day of the Lord is a very short period of time in which God uh is going to begin to pour out his wrath upon the children of disobedience that begins in Revelation chapter six at the end of that chapter.
• 16:01
  From that time on, the wrath of God is mentioned, I think seven times.
• 16:07
  The wrath of God is not mentioned any time prior to that.
• 16:11
  So here's the here's the bigger picture as I see it.
• 16:14
  We're in the last days that are 2,000 years long that will end approximately 2030 AD.
• 16:21
  Then we're in the latter part of the last days, which is a period much shorter, maybe sometime between 50 and 300 years.
• 16:31
  For instance, uh you remember the uh the oratorio, Messiah.
• 16:40
  Well, the oratorial Messiah was conceived by prophecy uh there, leaving together the prophecies of the coming of Christ, starting in the mid-1700s.
• 16:54
  We now have had 300 years of that being played every single year all over the world.
• 17:01
  George Frederick Handel, Messiah, God gives warning.
• 17:11
  So now we're at the latter part of the latter days, exactly where we are.
• 17:17
  We know we haven't entered the uh uh day of the Lord yet.
• 17:22
  So we're somewhere between in maybe a 50-year period, maybe a 25-year period, who knows?
• 17:28
  But we are in a period that God in his mercy says, I'm going to bring further warning to my people to prepare them, and that's why this book.
• 17:37
  I believe that uh for whatever you may think about God inspiring a lawyer to write a book like this.
• 17:44
  I believe that's why he called me out of the practice of law in 1992.
• 17:48
  He said, Son, you've been pleading the cause of men long enough.
• 17:51
  I want you to plead my cause of the land as a voice to the church, declaring vision for the nation in America's greatest crisis hour here on the near edge of the second coming.
• 17:59
  I've written uh persecution when persecution comes is my 11th book, and uh it's the intensity of these uh is increasing.
• 18:10
  And I believe my wife has read this book, and she says, Chuck, as far as I'm concerned, this is not a book to be feared.
• 18:17
  This is a book of great encouragement to the body of Christ to be ready and how to do it.
• 18:23
  Well, you wrote this book, it was published in 2024.
• 18:27
  Um, uh, given the what's going on in the Middle East right now and how Israel is getting pummeled, pummeled all of the neighbors.
• 18:35
  What are your thoughts about compared to 2024?
• 18:41
  Well, you mean today compared to 2024?
• 18:44
  Yeah.
• 18:45
  All right.
• 18:46
  Well, today is just intensifying.
• 18:49
  You see, uh Israel was attacked, yes, Israel was attacked, but the attack is continuing.
• 18:57
  The struggle is all around Israel.
• 18:59
  It's with Hezbollah in the north, which is controlled by Iran, it's with Iran, it's with the surrounding nations.
• 19:07
  Israel is surrounded, is surrounded by nations that don't want her to exist.
• 19:12
  In fact, it's not only the nations in the Middle East that don't want her to exist, it's the whole United Nations that don't want her to exist.
• 19:21
  So, in reality, there are more retributions brought against Israel than any other nation in the United Nations because they despise Israel.
• 19:31
  Why do they despise Israel?
• 19:33
  It's a form of persecution, you see.
• 19:36
  Israel is persona non grata, so to speak, the nation without gratitude in the world.
• 19:43
  Period.
• 19:45
  That's persecution, the spirit of persecution.
• 19:49
  So we were told that persecution was going to come against Israel a few months ago.
• 19:56
  I had one of the premier spokespersons uh for
• 20:00
  Uh Orthodox Jew Judaism on my radio program.
• 20:03
  She is a broadcaster in Israel, has been on my program many times.
• 20:08
  And she we were talking about this better persecution.
• 20:11
  She says, Well, as we say here in this country, first they come for the Saturday people, and then they come for the Sunday people.
• 20:18
  She says, get ready.
• 20:20
  We're experiencing it, and you're going to.
• 20:23
  And we're going to.
• 20:24
  We are, and it's coming, and we're not ready.
• 20:28
  Pastors are not preparing their people.
• 20:29
  They're afraid of it.
• 20:31
  They're afraid because it might discourage their people and it might cost them at the bottom line.
• 20:36
  Uh and counting the numbers and so on.
• 20:39
  There are many reasons why this message is not coming forth.
• 20:43
  Uh, but God at his mercy, I believe I don't have anything to lose.
• 20:48
  God called me out of the practice of law.
• 20:51
  I don't rely upon any man's money.
• 20:53
  I receive not a dime from the radio program that we've done for over 30 years now, every day live.
• 21:00
  Not a dime.
• 21:02
  I cannot afford to trust any man's money.
• 21:05
  Because the moment you do that, you start compromising.
• 21:10
  You start compromising.
• 21:11
  And that's what's happened to our country.
• 21:13
  That's happened to the church in America, and it's been spread all over the world.
• 21:17
  And so we're in a series of of great compromise in our country.
• 21:22
  And so a message that needs to get out, God finds a very difficult place of voice to get the message out.
• 21:30
  Because everybody is behoving, be beholden to some other power.
• 21:35
  That's why we have no commercial support for our program.
• 21:39
  None.
• 21:40
  I resisted it.
• 21:42
  Because the moment you do that, you begin to say, oh, well, what do I have to do to keep this person supporting me?
• 21:50
  How do I keep the money flowing?
• 21:52
  And if it comes flowing really well, and then they don't like something you say, all of a sudden you lose the support.
• 21:58
  So it's a form of persecution again.
• 22:04
  You know, in your book, When Persecution Comes, the the second part of that title is preparing hearts for perilous times.
• 22:11
  Yes.
• 22:15
  What do and that's really true?
• 22:18
  I mean, when you look at the they want everybody to have a good time, time happens.
• 22:24
  What can individuals or what should individuals do start preparing their hearts for these perilous times to come?
• 22:32
  Well, first of all, you have to believe what God said, what Jesus said, what the apostles said, every one of them said, This is this is coming.
• 22:39
  Prepare.
• 22:40
  Every single one of the apostles, including Christ himself, endured massive persecution.
• 22:46
  Every one of them.
• 22:48
  All but one of them died, a death of persecution, except John.
• 22:54
  And John, we don't know, but we do know he was exiled to the Isle of Patmos, where he wrote the book of Revelation.
• 23:01
  So that having been said, we know we have to agree with what God has said.
• 23:06
  If we don't, we'll do nothing about it.
• 23:08
  But if we agree and understand whether we want to or not, then we'll say, okay, I hear what you're saying, Lord.
• 23:15
  Now, uh, what do you want me to do?
• 23:18
  The three there are three chapters in the middle of this book.
• 23:21
  I call them the heart of the book.
• 23:24
  The talk about uh what we can do, first starting with families.
• 23:30
  It's got to begin in the home.
• 23:33
  It doesn't begin in the church house, it begins in your house and in my house.
• 23:37
  If we can't, if if uh men, fathers, and mothers cannot come to grips with the fact that they want to prepare their children for the times that are coming so that they will be able to dare to be a Daniel, dare to stand alone, dare to have a purpose firm and dare to make it known.
• 23:55
  That's what we did with our kids.
• 23:57
  That's what we did with those of the grandchildren that we were enabled to do that with.
• 24:02
  My oldest grandson was named Daniels precisely because of that song.
• 24:07
  Dare to be a Daniel, dare to stand alone, dare to have a purpose firm and dare to make it known.
• 24:13
  How do you do that in an environment in which the young are being prepared to capitulate to uh the culture?
• 24:24
  It's the culture that has demand.
• 24:26
  If that had been the case with Daniel, he never would have gone to the lion's den.
• 24:30
  We would never have talked about him.
• 24:32
  If that had happened to the three young friends of his that were thrown into the fiery furnace, we would have never talked about them after that.
• 24:40
  Why do we talk about them?
• 24:42
  Because their lives explain how to handle persecution.
• 24:49
  How to be able to stand when everyone else is falling and capitulating to the times, to the threats, to the uh whatever it is, the circumstances that come upon us.
• 25:03
  So it begins with families.
• 25:05
  I have a whole in that chapter, uh, a whole list of things that parents can do to help their children focus on uh various aspects of lives in the scripture.
• 25:18
  It's not left to a mystery, it helps moms and dads who don't feel adequate.
• 25:24
  They can begin the process.
• 25:26
  So you don't begin.
• 25:27
  I mean, Juliandra's even understood where the best place to begin is at the very beginning.
• 25:32
  So begin at the very beginning, right?
• 25:34
  The very best place to start.
• 25:37
  Imagine that.
• 25:39
  Imagine that.
• 25:40
  I mean, these things are not all that hard to figure out if we're willing.
• 25:44
  So that chapter encourages parents, moms and dads.
• 25:50
  Then there is a chapter specifically for fathers.
• 25:53
  Now, why specifically for fathers?
• 25:55
  Because fathers are the ones that God has entrusted with the leadership of their families.
• 26:02
  You may not think that way because of American culture and all the femininistic uh things that have gone on since the 1970s, but even among feminists, they're beginning to realize hey, we went too far.
• 26:18
  So fathers are what God ordained to lead their families.
• 26:23
  So a mom out there might say, Well, uh, I'm a single mom, then what do I do?
• 26:28
  Well, you do the best that you can.
• 26:30
  You ask the Lord to do the best that you can to be a mom and a dad, but you can't shrink from it just because you're a mom.
• 26:38
  You're gonna have to gird up the loins of your mind and do what you need to do.
• 26:42
  Okay, and you can do it.
• 26:46
  Well, hold that thought right there, Charles, because this is a good place for us to take a break to hear from our sponsors, uh, because that's really, really important.
• 26:54
  Start with families and fathers, step into the gap and be real men and lead your family.
• 26:59
  So hold that thought, and we'll come back to the part three that you were talking about there, right after we hear from our sponsors.
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  Well, welcome back, everyone.
• 33:51
  Today we're talking with Charles Chris Meyer, author of 11 books.
• 33:56
  But the book that we're here to talk about today is when persecution comes, preparing hearts for perilous times because they are coming.
• 34:04
  Let me tell you a little bit more about our guest, Charles Chris Meyer.
• 34:08
  Charles is a man of many callings.
• 34:10
  He was an educator, a trial attorney, pastor, and now a broadcaster.
• 34:15
  With nine years in public education, two decades decades as a trial attorney, and over 30 years in ministry.
• 34:22
  Charles brings a rare blend of spiritual insight and real world experience to today's most pressing issues.
• 34:29
  He is the host of a daily radio show for the last 30 years called Viewpoint, where he's been called the prophet of our time.
• 34:37
  Fearlessly addressing cultural and biblical truths that many shy away from.
• 34:42
  Charles, welcome back so much to coming back to the show.
• 34:45
  It's such a privilege to have you here with me today.
• 34:48
  Well, thank you, Dr.
• 34:49
  Chi.
• 34:49
  I'm not sure I've been called the Prophet, but some have called me a prophet for our name.
• 34:54
  Well, I think that you know, the prophet, the way that you talk, you know the Bible and the way you can preach and what happens on your radio show.
• 35:01
  Maybe it's a unique calling and uh it brings a perspective uh that is much needed.
• 35:08
  There aren't very many folk out there that have that calling, and I accept that responsibility, and it's a very uh it's a tough calling, uh, but it's also a joyful calling because you realize that uh God is is using you uh to speak into people's lives in ways that perhaps they have not understood, not uh not heard, and to to bring them to action to bring them to respond in the most difficult moments of world history, and uh that's what we do.
• 35:42
  Uh, that's why the book uh When Persecution Comes was written, preparing hearts for perilous times.
• 35:49
  Notice it doesn't say preparing cords of gold for perilous times.
• 35:56
  It doesn't say, you know, build up a reservoir of uh food for perilous times.
• 36:02
  Now you can do all of those things, whatever you want to do, but don't put your trust in them.
• 36:07
  You better have your trust in the Lord.
• 36:09
  Better to trust the Lord than to put confidence in men as well.
• 36:13
  So the purpose here is to prepare our hearts for perilous times.
• 36:19
  And these are perilous times.
• 36:21
  The Apostle Paul told us they would come, and they're here.
• 36:24
  We just haven't experienced them to the level in America that uh uh others have around the world, but they're coming rapidly.
• 36:32
  Uh Robert Frost wrote a poem.
• 36:35
  I think it was Robert Frost who wrote a poem called about the fog.
• 36:38
  So the fog comes in on little cat feet.
• 36:41
  Well, I've had experiences with fog, and uh they're scary, very scary.
• 36:47
  First of all, the comes the fog comes in very slightly, and it you you realize it, but it doesn't make a big deal.
• 36:54
  But gradually it increases and increases increases until it's a piece of fog and you can't see straight.
• 37:01
  I have encountered that on Mount St.
• 37:03
  Helens before it blew its stack.
• 37:05
  I was climbing it and ended up in a piece of fog that was frightening us all get out.
• 37:10
  I've encountered that uh on a uh distance bicycle ride.
• 37:15
  Uh, that was frightening beyond uh words to the students that I was leading, said we're gonna die, we're gonna die.
• 37:23
  And uh I've encountered it in Fresno, uh, California, where I was a student, and where there are multiple accidents there that occur because the fog comes in massively and you can't see straight.
• 37:38
  Well, that's what's happened to us in our world today.
• 37:42
  There's a fog that has come over professing Christians.
• 37:46
  We can't see straight, and it's coming quickly, and we just don't realize that it's how it's coming in until all of a sudden, like the frog in the kettle, he gets boiled alive.
• 37:57
  And so God in his mercy knows this.
• 38:01
  He knows human nature, he created us.
• 38:04
  He knows that our free will leads us astray, and he wants to direct us in his mercy and his patience.
• 38:13
  He is reaching out to us, and that's what this book is.
• 38:17
  Uh, when persecution comes, uh, preparing hearts for perilous times.
• 38:21
  We were talking about the heart of the book.
• 38:23
  Uh, three chapters, one chapter dealing with families.
• 38:26
  And uh then we were talking about the father.
• 38:29
  Well, God has called fathers to be the head of their homes.
• 38:33
  Now that's not to order people around, it's not just to put food on the table, it's not just to put the roof over their heads, it's to lead the family spiritually to prepare them.
• 38:44
  There was a priest in the old testament, a high priest who God was so furious with because he did not raise his children properly that he said, You're not going to have a single person to carry on your heritage.
• 39:01
  His name was Eli.
• 39:04
  He was a priest, but he did not perform God's purpose for a father.
• 39:09
  God wants us as fathers to do his will and to take the leadership.
• 39:15
  Now, you may not feel a lot of men don't feel like they have uh that leadership.
• 39:20
  They feel like their wives are better prepared spiritually.
• 39:23
  Well, get over it, man.
• 39:25
  It's time to toughen up.
• 39:27
  You think you're so tough, then how about when the going gets tough, the tough get going.
• 39:32
  See, I was a coach for five years.
• 39:34
  When the going gets tough, the tough get going, right?
• 39:39
  So we're we're encouraging, I'm encouraging, I'm exhorting you right now, as a man, get moving.
• 39:46
  Take this seriously, get a hold of the book when persecution comes, and when you do that, if you will lead your family for a year through that book, you will have questions at the every every chapter.
• 40:00
  That will help you, you won't have to hardly do anything other than read and ask the questions.
• 40:07
  Let them respond, and you'll be amazed how quickly you get involved, and they will too.
• 40:13
  You know, I've had several guests on this show that have written books about where are the men, where have the men gone?
• 40:21
  And one uh book in particular was talking about, you know, the problem is that we've we've so beaten down that they don't know how to, they don't know how to behave.
• 40:32
  They don't know if if they try to stand up and be strong, it's toxic masculinity.
• 40:37
  And if they don't stand up to be strong, well, then they must be gay.
• 40:41
  And so men are in a in a place where they they really don't know how to behave and how to demonstrate strength without beating people, and or don't know how to be sensitive without uh being effeminate.
• 40:55
  Uh, where what sort of encouragement from your position as a trial attorney, a pastor, uh, a broadcaster, a coach, what would you tell these men?
• 41:04
  You think I've been around for a while?
• 41:06
  I think you have I think I'm older than Moses was.
• 41:09
  Well, I don't know about that, but I think you have a lot of wisdom and a lot of strength.
• 41:15
  Oh, thank you.
• 41:16
  What sort of encouragement would you say to the men that are listening to this?
• 41:20
  Because that when I was talking to that author, I really felt, and I read that book, I really felt that that was true.
• 41:26
  That particularly young men, like in their 20s and 30s, they're not quite sure how to behave.
• 41:33
  Well, that's true.
• 41:34
  The expectations uh are that are on them have been defined by the culture, the culture has been uh swooning its way into femininity, and uh that has happened in the church as well, so that many pastors feel like they have to speak with a lisp and a limp wrist.
• 41:50
  I I hate to put it that way, but that's just the way it is.
• 41:53
  It's easy to transcribe it that way.
• 41:55
  Men need to uh gird up the loins of their minds and be men.
• 42:00
  The Bible is directed toward in large measure toward men.
• 42:05
  What the apostle Paul says, quit you like men, in other words, conduct yourself like a man, you're a soldier of the cross.
• 42:15
  Come on, guys.
• 42:17
  A soldier isn't going to be effeminate, a soldier is going to be a soldier.
• 42:22
  He has a calling, he has a calling before God to stand up to be a leader, to protect his family, not just against uh uh whatever kind of earthly problems there might be out there, but against the spiritual assaults that are coming against them.
• 42:39
  That's what our role is.
• 42:41
  For that reason, I'm I'm glad you opened up this opportunity, Dr.
• 42:44
  T, because I actually wrote a book called Hearts of the Fathers, Leaving a Legacy That Lasts.
• 42:49
  Why did I do that?
• 42:51
  Because God said, in fact, it's the second to last message that God gives to the world before his second coming, before Christ's second coming.
• 43:02
  It's in uh Malachi chapter four, that before the great and terrible day of the Lord, I will send forth or call forth the heart uh the spirit of Elijah the prophet, Elijah the prophet to call the hearts of the fathers to the children and the hearts of the children to the fathers.
• 43:21
  Do you think that's not important to God?
• 43:24
  God knew that in these last days, men were going to be shortchanged.
• 43:29
  He knew that men were going to be diminished, he knew that men were going to capitulate, were going to fall away, and their families were going to fall away, that it was going to be a very spiritually dangerous time, and he was going to call the spirit of Elijah the prophet.
• 43:47
  Well, we know that John the Baptist came forth in the spirit of Elijah the prophet, but the Bible says that before the great and terrible day of the Lord, he's going to call someone else in the spirit of Elijah the prophet to call the hearts of the fathers to the children, hearts of the children of the fathers.
• 44:04
  So that book is an encouraging book to help fathers to understand grandfathers.
• 44:11
  We have a tremendous opportunity to be to be a make a difference, and that is not to chase a little white ball around grassy fields somewhere, uh, and hope you can hit it somewhere and get it in a hole.
• 44:25
  No, we want to get a hold in one with God.
• 44:27
  We want to get a hole in one with God with our kids, and it's a very tough job.
• 44:33
  It is a tough job, but today is the day of salvation.
• 44:37
  Today, uh friend, if you'll hear my voice, you'll hear his voice.
• 44:40
  Don't harden your heart.
• 44:43
  You know, I did a I did an interview with an author who wrote a book called Grandparents Make Grand Partners, and it's a very enlightening book, and you know, about what you were saying, and we talked a lot about the various different roles that grandparents play in the various types of families that we have today that have blended families that aren't just linearly Christian families, some may be intermarried, interracial, other maybe divorces in there, there may be competition between the grandparents.
• 45:12
  There's all sorts of things that um, but in the at the end of the day, she was saying that we just need to stand in our place of what the Lord told us to do to raise up children in the way that they should go, and to play our role importantly for that.
• 45:27
  So thank you so much for facilitating that part of the conversation here today.
• 45:32
  And uh, so I I wrote the book, Hearts of the Fathers, leaving a legacy that lasts.
• 45:35
  It's on our website, save us.org, save us dot or g and it will encourage.
• 45:41
  Do you know that when that book came out, two-thirds of them were purchased by women?
• 45:46
  Wow.
• 45:47
  You know why?
• 45:48
  Because the number one cry of women, Christian women across America for the past 25 years is why can't or won't my husband be the spiritual leader of our home.
• 45:57
  Yes, absolutely.
• 45:59
  Yeah.
• 46:00
  So I mean, this book is written by a man for men, been there, done that, have experienced so many different aspects of life.
• 46:08
  So, you know, it translates uh our calling is men, uh, how to disciple our children, how to do it again.
• 46:16
  Uh, questions after every chapter to help us uh to do that.
• 46:20
  We need all the help we could get right now.
• 46:23
  And then I told you about this.
• 46:25
  Uh, these three main chapters.
• 46:28
  Where are we standing?
• 46:29
  Are we okay now?
• 46:30
  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 46:31
  Everything's good.
• 46:32
  Good.
• 46:33
  Okay.
• 46:33
  Uh, the third of those three chapters has to do with persecution in the church.
• 46:40
  Now that may sound strange, but Jesus warned about it.
• 46:45
  In fact, his most serious warnings were about persecution coming from within families and within the church.
• 46:54
  Well, you know, leaving a pregnant silence there.
• 46:57
  Well, yes, for sure.
• 46:59
  And you know, the way that your book is written, all of your books are written, that they have insight and wisdom, and then a series of questions that only a lawyer could write, that only because they are cross-examining kind of so you mean there's there's a reason why God would raise up a lawyer to speak some of these things.
• 47:19
  Absolutely, absolutely, for sure.
• 47:22
  And and like you said, you know, you read the material, and then the questions are very probing, like a cross-examination would be what did you read?
• 47:31
  How did this apply to your life?
• 47:32
  How did this apply to your family, your community?
• 47:35
  They're really, really good.
• 47:37
  And each of your books are like that, you know.
• 47:39
  And your message of this one, preparing hearts for perilous times.
• 47:43
  What happens if we don't prepare?
• 47:53
  Uh, if you don't prepare, uh there is uh there are consequences, and the consequences for not preparing are that either you andor your children or pastors, your people will succumb to the pressures of the time.
• 48:10
  By the way, the word tribulation comes from the Greek word meaning pressure.
• 48:17
  So let's not use the word tribulation.
• 48:19
  Let's use the word pressure, because the word tribulation carries a lot of baggage with it with some people, theological baggage.
• 48:27
  Let's use the word pressure.
• 48:29
  There's been a time of pressure, and then Jesus says there's going to be a time of great pressure called the Great Tribulation.
• 48:38
  Analogous to the great terror that occurred in the French Revolution.
• 48:44
  You see, so uh if we don't prepare, if we don't take seriously the matter of preparing our own minds and hearts, and that of our children and grandchildren and our con uh the our constituencies, whatever they might be, we're going to bear responsibility.
• 49:06
  The Bible says that pastors and teachers are going to bear far greater responsibility for failure to prepare, failure to teach the fullness than will the average person.
• 49:18
  But then God called men to prepare to be pastors in their homes, you see.
• 49:25
  So the consequences, if your children let's get an illustration.
• 49:30
  Let's suppose that's uh something like uh happened with uh Daniel in the old testament were to happen with your family, and somebody were to come up to your kids and say, if you don't uh deny Jesus, then uh I'm gonna shoot you in the head.
• 49:52
  Or are you a Christian?
• 49:53
  He's carrying a gun.
• 49:54
  Are you a Christian?
• 49:56
  You think that's strange?
• 49:58
  No, it already happened in a
• 50:00
  America.
• 50:00
  It happened 20 years ago in Colorado.
• 50:06
  Where a young woman, a senior in high school, was faced with exactly that situation.
• 50:12
  And she refused to deny Jesus and was shot in the head.
• 50:18
  Would you call that persecution?
• 50:20
  Absolutely.
• 50:21
  Not all persecution takes that form, but look, our young people are easily moved and swayed by the pressures of the culture.
• 50:33
  We call it.
• 50:36
  What's the term now?
• 50:38
  Do we call it young people pressured by society and the culture?
• 50:43
  Peer pressure.
• 50:45
  Well, guess what?
• 50:46
  So are we adults?
• 50:48
  Exactly.
• 50:49
  The peer pressure of the culture is putting such immense pressure to conform in little ways and big ways.
• 50:58
  And you allow it to happen little by little until finally you have capitulated.
• 51:04
  And you're not prepared to stand.
• 51:05
  You're not prepared to stand in an evil day.
• 51:07
  You're not prepared to stand when the pressures arise when your job's on the line.
• 51:12
  You're not prepared to stand.
• 51:15
  Everybody wants to talk about spiritual warfare, but they have no clue what spiritual warfare is.
• 51:20
  They think it's somehow uh some sort of demonic thing flying around in the in the nether world or something like that.
• 51:28
  No, it's between your ears.
• 51:30
  That's where the most spiritual warfare is.
• 51:33
  That's why James talks about a divided heart or a divided mind.
• 51:38
  Christians have divided minds and divided hearts today.
• 51:42
  And if you have a minded divided mind or divided heart, you are not prepared for persecution.
• 51:53
  Well, Charles, I'll tell you, your messages are always just loaded with such great information.
• 51:59
  I'm smiling too.
• 52:01
  And you're smiling.
• 52:02
  And even though you know you you usually develop uh deliver your messages with kind of a punch to the head, which we all no, not in a good way, because we all need to be up because the whole wokism things that have happening in our country that have seeped their way into our churches that you know that that God says in his word directly out, thou shalt not, and there's a whole bunch of them, particularly in the book of Leviticus, and they just a lot.
• 52:31
  So I think that this is really, really important about why we must prepare.
• 52:36
  We must prepare for perilous times that are going to come.
• 52:39
  You know, um, there's a um a book, the Janya Kelik wrote this book called Um Uh Killed to Order.
• 52:46
  And it's about the child uh the um organ harvesting industry in China and how they have um uh attacked the young population.
• 52:59
  Right.
• 53:00
  But China's coming after the Christians next.
• 53:04
  That's well, the China's already been coming after the Christians.
• 53:07
  In fact, the churches uh are required now to hang a massive picture of Xi Jong Ping uh there in the uh uh churches and knocking down their steeples if they're not part of the three self-patriotic church movement, and uhresting the pastors of house churches uh so as to prevent the house church movement from continuing, which is the primary uh growing church in China.
• 53:36
  So, oh yeah, persecution is rising tremendously in China.
• 53:41
  Well, we've got about two minutes left.
• 53:44
  What's as a trial attorney?
• 53:46
  What's your closing argument for today's discussion?
• 53:49
  And what would you like people to take away from this book that you've written that is so important for all of us about preparing our hearts for perilous times?
• 53:58
  I want them to take away the message of hope.
• 54:02
  You see, if we prepare, there's hope.
• 54:04
  If we don't prepare, there's not hope.
• 54:05
  It's as simple as that.
• 54:07
  Uh John, the beloved disciple said whoever has the hope of the second coming in him, will purify his heart, even as Christ is is pure.
• 54:18
  In other words, that's what we do.
• 54:20
  We walk in holiness and in righteousness, without which no man shall see the Lord.
• 54:24
  We prepare our sons and our daughters, our grandchildren, we prepare our congregations, we take this matter seriously.
• 54:32
  It's not about money, it's not about the power of uh numbers, it's about the power of the gospel in the Holy Spirit, and so if we will do what God says we should do, then we will be the people he says that we should be, and so we will be prepared to be a doer of the word is to be a doer of the word, not a hearer.
• 54:56
  James, the brother of Jesus warned us about that.
• 54:58
  Let's be doers of the word and not hearers only, congratulating ourselves with non-negotiable God bless you, at how often we go to church.
• 55:09
  You see, it's not about how often we go to church, it's about how often we bang obey God.
• 55:15
  That's really what it's about, and it's the only way we can plead Jesus.
• 55:19
  Jesus said, if you love me, you're gonna do what I say.
• 55:22
  If you love me, you're gonna keep my commandments, and if you don't, you won't.
• 55:25
  So I mean, it's pretty simple.
• 55:27
  That's the final preparation.
• 55:29
  I can say that with a smile, because quite frankly, when I look at you, I'm looking at my little image coming back at me, and I'm in the same boat you are.
• 55:38
  We're all in this same boat together.
• 55:41
  And uh, I hear this message.
• 55:43
  Can you imagine writing a book like this and not having to take it seriously in your own life?
• 55:49
  Well, I think that's really that's that really says it all.
• 55:52
  Well, Charles, thank you so much for being with us again here today.
• 55:56
  I just love having you on the show because your insights are just so great, and you've written such great books, and really are just such an inspiration for all of us.
• 56:05
  We need to take them seriously.
• 56:07
  They really, really are so thank you.
• 56:09
  Well, check out the website, save us.org.
• 56:12
  You might take that seriously too.
• 56:13
  People say you can't listen to viewpoint long and not be changed.
• 56:16
  That's exactly it.
• 56:18
  Well, I want to thank everybody else for joining us here today.
• 56:20
  Thank you for every day that we come here at 3 p.m.
• 56:23
  Eastern time, Monday through Friday with the 10 Penny Files.
• 56:26
  And with that, I'll close out with one of my favorite verses from the Bible.
• 56:29
  I close all my podcasts with, whether they are live or pre-recorded, which is Romans.
• 56:35
  Rejoice and hope, be patient and trust and be persistent in prayer.
• 56:40
  And so we'll see you again or the next time, right here on the 10 Penny Files.
• 56:45
  Have a great rest of your day, everybody.
• 56:47
  Goodbye, and God bless.