Latest / Real Crime with Adam Shand / Thirteen Years On: Living With the Attack | Lance White

Transcript

Thirteen Years On: Living With the Attack | Lance White · Real Crime with Adam Shand

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Appoche production.
• 0:14
  Speaker 2: Welcome to Real Crime with Adam Shand. I'm your host,
• 0:17
  Speaker 2: Adam Shand. Imagine you're the victim of a random crime
• 0:21
  Speaker 2: of violence, which is, sadly in Australia's capital cities are
• 0:25
  Speaker 2: pretty regular event these days.
• 0:28
  Speaker 3: A man bashed while walking home from a train station.
• 0:31
  Speaker 3: Police say the attack appears completely random.
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: What will be the long term effects on you?
• 0:38
  Speaker 4: How will that change your life?
• 0:40
  Speaker 5: Victims of unprovoked assaults often suffer ongoing psychological trauma long
• 0:45
  Speaker 5: after physical injuries.
• 0:46
  Speaker 2: Here, perceptions of safety and security are being destroyed by
• 0:51
  Speaker 2: the reality that you can be attacked and seriously injured
• 0:55
  Speaker 2: by someone you don't know, simply because you're in the
• 0:58
  Speaker 2: wrong place at the wrong time.
• 1:01
  Speaker 3: Police say groups of youths have targeted strangers that trains,
• 1:05
  Speaker 3: attacking simply for the thrill of violence.
• 1:09
  Speaker 2: My guest today knows exactly how that feels. A former
• 1:13
  Speaker 2: colleague from Radio six PR in Perth, newsreader Lance White
• 1:18
  Speaker 2: was a victim of a serious and unprovoked attack thirteen
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: years ago at a suburban railway station, Beaten.
• 1:25
  Speaker 3: By multiple attackers and left bleeding at the scene.
• 1:30
  Speaker 2: He was set upon by a group of young men
• 1:33
  Speaker 2: who just wanted to bash someone anyone. The offenders have
• 1:38
  Speaker 2: never been brought to justice, despite the police having CCTV
• 1:42
  Speaker 2: images and a detailed description. There's also a twist in
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: this story where the victim becomes a suspect in another
• 1:50
  Speaker 2: crime because of DNA. For Lance White, this bizarre twist
• 1:56
  Speaker 2: has prolonged and deepened his trauma. I caught up with
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: Lance recently to discuss this story, which really is a
• 2:03
  Speaker 2: cautionary tale for our time.
• 2:08
  Speaker 6: Las.
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: It is so good to see. I'm seri you sayce
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: Perth six PR.
• 2:12
  Speaker 6: We go a long way back, don't we.
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: We do we do? It's what do you do these days?
• 2:17
  Speaker 6: Absolutely nothing.
• 2:18
  Speaker 5: I've got my little sleeping bag here with me and
• 2:21
  Speaker 5: I'm out of radio and just wondering.
• 2:24
  Speaker 6: What's going to come next. Yeah, right enough, But you're
• 2:26
  Speaker 6: still living with.
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: The after effects of that incident out several years ago.
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah over in Western straight, tell me what happened?
• 2:31
  Speaker 6: Okay.
• 2:32
  Speaker 5: So going back to twenty twelve where we got six PR,
• 2:36
  Speaker 5: it was until twenty seventeen, okay, so this is a
• 2:40
  Speaker 5: bit before you got there. So it's three News Saturday
• 2:43
  Speaker 5: night at six PR on the way home on the
• 2:45
  Speaker 5: train from Wellington, street to Glendalow station, and while I
• 2:51
  Speaker 5: was on the train that there was a big ruckus
• 2:53
  Speaker 5: and somebody who had been closet on the train. But
• 2:56
  Speaker 5: the person, the victim, Obbert, didn't want to take it
• 2:58
  Speaker 5: any further. So there was about four years who got
• 3:02
  Speaker 5: kicked off the train by the guards and I haven't
• 3:05
  Speaker 5: been getting off at the same station with all of them.
• 3:09
  Speaker 5: They went at Glendalow's station. It's on the upper level
• 3:12
  Speaker 5: of the train line. The street level is one level
• 3:15
  Speaker 5: down below. So I thought, I'll just wait at the
• 3:17
  Speaker 5: platform till they go, till things settle down.
• 3:20
  Speaker 6: Got on the escalator to go down, and sure enough,
• 3:23
  Speaker 6: these proof.
• 3:24
  Speaker 5: Of views are waiting at the bottom and I'll go,
• 3:27
  Speaker 5: oh no. So we get to the bottom of the escalator.
• 3:30
  Speaker 5: I'm walking out towards the street, trying not to make
• 3:33
  Speaker 5: eye contact with them, and one of them says to me,
• 3:37
  Speaker 5: are you racist? And I said, no, mate, I'm just
• 3:40
  Speaker 5: heading home. Continued trying not to make eye contact, kept
• 3:43
  Speaker 5: walking and I just cleared the outside of the station,
• 3:48
  Speaker 5: felt this target on the back.
• 3:49
  Speaker 6: Of my shirt, right in the middle of my back.
• 3:52
  Speaker 5: One of them swung me around, punched me as hard
• 3:54
  Speaker 5: as he could in the left eye, and then it
• 3:57
  Speaker 5: just started so just being swung around.
• 4:01
  Speaker 6: It just seemed to be one main attacker, but yet
• 4:03
  Speaker 6: three events made with him. It kind of came.
• 4:06
  Speaker 5: To an end where there's a concrete wall at street
• 4:09
  Speaker 5: level at Glendalow training station which has sort of got
• 4:12
  Speaker 5: it's a jagged edge concrete scene, and they got me
• 4:17
  Speaker 5: up against back and then there was one sort of
• 4:19
  Speaker 5: final punch that bland in the left eye and my
• 4:22
  Speaker 5: gash to the back of my head opened with the
• 4:24
  Speaker 5: skin on the back of my head. I got some
• 4:27
  Speaker 5: sort of cuts to the forehead and I realized at
• 4:32
  Speaker 5: that point that there was pretty much no way out
• 4:34
  Speaker 5: of this because I was outnumbered and they're more powerful
• 4:37
  Speaker 5: than me. And you have that realization in your mind,
• 4:42
  Speaker 5: I think I'm going to die.
• 4:44
  Speaker 6: And I've heard this from a lot of people who've
• 4:46
  Speaker 6: been attacked.
• 4:47
  Speaker 5: The meuse It's a common thing I keep hearing over
• 4:49
  Speaker 5: and over again, and that seems to trigger a lot
• 4:52
  Speaker 5: of the trauma that goes on.
• 4:54
  Speaker 7: That feeling like you're going to die. And you said
• 4:57
  Speaker 7: that a lot of people feel that way. I think
• 4:59
  Speaker 7: that's absolutely true. Yes, And as I see you recount
• 5:03
  Speaker 7: this story. I can feel your visceral response to that moment.
• 5:07
  Speaker 7: It's still very real for you, isn't it.
• 5:09
  Speaker 5: Yeah, it's the only part of what happened that is
• 5:14
  Speaker 5: with me there every day, even this last year, now
• 5:17
  Speaker 5: that I've got some distance from radio, I was thoroughly
• 5:19
  Speaker 5: spent a lot of time this last year just trying
• 5:22
  Speaker 5: to sort of make some more sense of it, see
• 5:24
  Speaker 5: if I can speed up the recovery.
• 5:27
  Speaker 6: And for most of the bashing, I'm okay with that.
• 5:32
  Speaker 5: Now it's just this last punch and the reason why
• 5:34
  Speaker 5: I'm okay with the rest of the bashing. It is
• 5:37
  Speaker 5: actually like another incident that I had when I was
• 5:40
  Speaker 5: coming into the six PR. I was waiting at a
• 5:42
  Speaker 5: bus stop in Mainstream Bolton Park and a guy had
• 5:46
  Speaker 5: just turned out and done a liquor store robbery and
• 5:50
  Speaker 5: came up to me and said you want to have
• 5:52
  Speaker 5: a go, mate, And I said no, I'm just waiting
• 5:54
  Speaker 5: in for the bus and punched me as hard as
• 5:56
  Speaker 5: you could in the right eye. I managed to keep
• 5:58
  Speaker 5: my feet, I didn't go down on the back of
• 6:01
  Speaker 5: my head. Cops got him a short time later and
• 6:05
  Speaker 5: find one thousand dollars for a common assault in the
• 6:07
  Speaker 5: court the next day. But that incident in Mainstry didn't
• 6:11
  Speaker 5: bother me, and it hasn't bothered me, And there's been
• 6:13
  Speaker 5: other incidents that haven't bothered me. The glendalo Station one did,
• 6:16
  Speaker 5: so I've been able to match what happened for most
• 6:20
  Speaker 5: of the Glendalow attack with the other incidents cleaning on
• 6:23
  Speaker 5: that this year that haven't bothered me. And just that
• 6:27
  Speaker 5: one punt for my head going back against that just
• 6:32
  Speaker 5: totally reverberated through my mind, every part of my be
• 6:37
  Speaker 5: and that's what still stays with me.
• 6:41
  Speaker 6: Anyway.
• 6:41
  Speaker 5: At that point, I realized, if I just give him
• 6:44
  Speaker 5: whatever money did he wants. One of the attackers actually
• 6:47
  Speaker 5: said stop, and that seemed to count things down.
• 6:50
  Speaker 6: But he reached into my wallet, got my five.
• 6:54
  Speaker 5: Dollars out that I had in there, and they lived
• 6:56
  Speaker 5: pretty happily and walked up the street. And I can't
• 6:59
  Speaker 5: describe the feeling of relief that I'm my goodness, I've
• 7:04
  Speaker 5: got out of this. You just go through so many
• 7:07
  Speaker 5: extreme abnormal emotions all at once.
• 7:11
  Speaker 6: The feeling of disorientation.
• 7:12
  Speaker 5: While you're being thrown around, the intensity of the hit
• 7:16
  Speaker 5: on the head, and that feeling of probably went around,
• 7:20
  Speaker 5: called cops on payphone. Yeah, you you're on the phone.
• 7:26
  Speaker 5: You look back and see the trail of blood coming
• 7:28
  Speaker 5: back from where you were. Some pool bathard in trans
• 7:32
  Speaker 5: Earth had to clean up. But you got me to
• 7:36
  Speaker 5: Charles Garden the hospital in the ambulance and just remember
• 7:40
  Speaker 5: going back in the in the ambulance. There were noticed
• 7:42
  Speaker 5: so many speed hunts in my life here. So we
• 7:45
  Speaker 5: get to hospital. Had a bit of a panic attack
• 7:47
  Speaker 5: at the hospital when because they really when they leave
• 7:51
  Speaker 5: you at Tacon while of the game dance, people do
• 7:52
  Speaker 5: the handover to the hospital staff and I just felt
• 7:54
  Speaker 5: abandoned and something I couldn't.
• 7:56
  Speaker 6: Breathe, and it's like and then in your you're in
• 7:59
  Speaker 6: the hospital.
• 8:00
  Speaker 5: Having great care, being taken obviously by the nurses, and
• 8:04
  Speaker 5: all thoughts about the word stuff.
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: So you call police which station, I don't know.
• 8:09
  Speaker 5: Which station they came from, but they were on the
• 8:11
  Speaker 5: scene pretty quickly and discorded me to hospital. It was
• 8:14
  Speaker 5: mirrorbook and detectives who later took up the investigation.
• 8:17
  Speaker 6: But I don't know if.
• 8:18
  Speaker 7: You're able to give a good description of your attackers.
• 8:21
  Speaker 7: I believe they're indigenous youth, is that correct?
• 8:24
  Speaker 5: They are of African descent, so it was dark, it
• 8:28
  Speaker 5: was out of camera range. But the authority transfers and
• 8:32
  Speaker 5: the police they had delusion of them going past the
• 8:36
  Speaker 5: cameras off the train. But the spot when batching happened,
• 8:39
  Speaker 5: it wasn't captured on video to my knowledge.
• 8:42
  Speaker 6: There was a car yard optic.
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: I don't know.
• 8:44
  Speaker 6: Police try to access the car yard video of what happened.
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: Okay, so they've got video of these individuals.
• 8:50
  Speaker 7: There plenty of leads from mirror booker detectives to follow
• 8:52
  Speaker 7: what happened next.
• 8:53
  Speaker 6: Okay, so we do the hospital run.
• 8:57
  Speaker 5: The police take my clothes at the hospital for forensic analysis.
• 9:04
  Speaker 5: I'm standing out in front of Charli Gardener's hospital and
• 9:07
  Speaker 5: my hospital Breens to get a tax you home contacted
• 9:11
  Speaker 5: work the great Ron timing and I'm not going to
• 9:13
  Speaker 5: be in for a while. So I'm pretty shaken up
• 9:15
  Speaker 5: and had about a week and a half off work
• 9:19
  Speaker 5: and I did actually go into six PR Monday. I
• 9:22
  Speaker 5: thought it so this happened on the Saturday night. By
• 9:24
  Speaker 5: the Monday, I thought, I've got to get back on
• 9:26
  Speaker 5: the train. Do the commit to work, because you've got
• 9:30
  Speaker 5: to get back on the horse. And I remember going
• 9:32
  Speaker 5: back to Glendalow's station, feeling extremely self conscious with my
• 9:36
  Speaker 5: black eyes, and went into work and arrived there and
• 9:41
  Speaker 5: I think I've got a few double takes from the
• 9:43
  Speaker 5: John Nichols and John Tlvander and all the other people
• 9:46
  Speaker 5: who were worked with me, But I had to do
• 9:48
  Speaker 5: the journey back in straight away.
• 9:51
  Speaker 7: You got it in your living and it's important, as
• 9:53
  Speaker 7: you say not to, I guess give in to the
• 9:56
  Speaker 7: trauma that there must be really enveloping.
• 9:59
  Speaker 6: You at this time.
• 10:00
  Speaker 5: As I spoke to a psychologist later on, you know,
• 10:02
  Speaker 5: it's all about control.
• 10:04
  Speaker 6: You've got to feel as a victim, but.
• 10:06
  Speaker 5: You're in control of certain controlled with a certain extent
• 10:10
  Speaker 5: is taken away from you. Your personal space is seriously invaded,
• 10:15
  Speaker 5: and that seems to.
• 10:17
  Speaker 6: Correlate with the level of trauma that you feel.
• 10:20
  Speaker 5: Many other incidents, or a handful of an incidents that
• 10:24
  Speaker 5: I've had that have been similar to that invaded in
• 10:27
  Speaker 5: my personal space, but nothing like this.
• 10:31
  Speaker 6: It's like the.
• 10:32
  Speaker 5: Difference between if you're a minor bingle in a car
• 10:35
  Speaker 5: park and a shopping center, Oh, that's a bit of
• 10:37
  Speaker 5: a nuisance, but if you're in a serious crash where
• 10:40
  Speaker 5: you lost the ability to be able to walk rps,
• 10:43
  Speaker 5: you put severe burns. That's much more an invasion of
• 10:46
  Speaker 5: personal space. And I'm just seeing so much in the
• 10:49
  Speaker 5: last few months, even with talking about the crime problem
• 10:52
  Speaker 5: around Miltne, that people are feeling like their personal space
• 10:56
  Speaker 5: is being invaded. And that seems to me to be
• 10:58
  Speaker 5: at the core of the start of trauma and going
• 11:03
  Speaker 5: up in the grades to you you get to that
• 11:05
  Speaker 5: point where this trauma has totally invaded you and changed
• 11:11
  Speaker 5: who you are, and you're so hyper vigilance. I remember
• 11:15
  Speaker 5: walking down Hay Street to six pr and this is
• 11:18
  Speaker 5: about a week later. You get all these weird sensations,
• 11:23
  Speaker 5: like I had to suddenly grab onto the top of
• 11:26
  Speaker 5: my head because I thought the top of my head
• 11:29
  Speaker 5: was being pulled apart, sort of my left side going left,
• 11:33
  Speaker 5: my right side going right, like it was a coconut
• 11:36
  Speaker 5: being broken, and you know it wasn't, but that's what
• 11:39
  Speaker 5: my brain was thinking.
• 11:40
  Speaker 6: It's just the effect of the concussion.
• 11:42
  Speaker 7: I was going to say, concussion, yeah, And were you
• 11:44
  Speaker 7: getting medical treatments through this?
• 11:46
  Speaker 6: By the way, No.
• 11:47
  Speaker 5: I got a little pamphlet from police about two or
• 11:51
  Speaker 5: the government two weeks later about are you a victim?
• 11:53
  Speaker 6: Of crime.
• 11:54
  Speaker 5: Well, you know, these are the people you can call.
• 11:57
  Speaker 5: You just don't know what's happening to you. You don't
• 11:59
  Speaker 5: know who to approach or things have changed, but you
• 12:03
  Speaker 5: think I'll just get beyond. You know, things at settled
• 12:06
  Speaker 5: out normally. You don't realize that, you know, this is
• 12:09
  Speaker 5: actually a life changing thing. You don't realize that till
• 12:12
  Speaker 5: a lot later, right, Yeah.
• 12:14
  Speaker 7: And I think a lot of the recovery and the
• 12:18
  Speaker 7: progress afterwards is dependent on what sort of service you
• 12:21
  Speaker 7: get from the police.
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, how did that transpire?
• 12:24
  Speaker 5: Okay, so it would have been I think it was
• 12:27
  Speaker 5: about two weeks later. They called up and said, can
• 12:31
  Speaker 5: you come into memory book to detect.
• 12:32
  Speaker 6: His And they took my DNA so that they.
• 12:37
  Speaker 5: Can examine well without breaching all their investigative techniques. They
• 12:42
  Speaker 5: they can look at the clothing and they look at
• 12:43
  Speaker 5: items on us if they can find any DNA, and
• 12:47
  Speaker 5: they get your as the victims DNA so that they
• 12:50
  Speaker 5: can exclude my own DNA from whatever they find. So
• 12:55
  Speaker 5: that when I was told at the time that your
• 12:58
  Speaker 5: DNA just relates to this crime. And I remember covering
• 13:01
  Speaker 5: the story when they first introduced DNA legislation in Western Australia. No,
• 13:06
  Speaker 5: it will just be part of that crime when you
• 13:10
  Speaker 5: give your DNA sampling, it won't be linked any further
• 13:13
  Speaker 5: than that. And there was a big bating point at
• 13:16
  Speaker 5: the time and got through parliament and yeah, I remember
• 13:20
  Speaker 5: the detectives giving me my clothes back after they forensically
• 13:23
  Speaker 5: analyzed it, and the closes of coming in blood.
• 13:28
  Speaker 6: It's just a huge refindwer of what happens.
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: Taken back into that moment again.
• 13:33
  Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, and you have to tell your story in
• 13:36
  Speaker 5: so many different people from the attending police at the hospital,
• 13:40
  Speaker 5: the nurse is curious about, oh, what happened, So you
• 13:43
  Speaker 5: told the story again. Then you're going to tell the
• 13:46
  Speaker 5: detectives again what happened. But you can't just tell your
• 13:49
  Speaker 5: story once. But I'm talking it out is a way
• 13:53
  Speaker 5: of processing it, but it means reliving it.
• 13:55
  Speaker 6: And I've seen since then.
• 13:57
  Speaker 5: I think one of the things that makes something go
• 14:00
  Speaker 5: from a bad incident to trauma is when you go
• 14:04
  Speaker 5: to school and you hear what's being taught and clart
• 14:09
  Speaker 5: you're gett encouraged to go home and do homework and
• 14:13
  Speaker 5: review it. And it's the reviewing of it which what
• 14:15
  Speaker 5: keeps it in your memory. What are people to learn
• 14:17
  Speaker 5: at school. I think it's the same thing in trauma.
• 14:20
  Speaker 5: Because you're reliving it over and over again, it's making
• 14:24
  Speaker 5: it permanent in your mind. So I don't know how
• 14:27
  Speaker 5: you get around that in being able to try and
• 14:30
  Speaker 5: think through the issue and resolver at the time and rehashing.
• 14:34
  Speaker 6: It all the time, you know, whether it's later going
• 14:37
  Speaker 6: to quart or whatever.
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: I think the past still exists.
• 14:40
  Speaker 7: That's my area around the relativity and so forth, you know,
• 14:43
  Speaker 7: the space time continuum. I think the past does exist
• 14:46
  Speaker 7: in our minds, particularly when we think about it all
• 14:48
  Speaker 7: the time, and it's very real, and it brings back
• 14:51
  Speaker 7: sensory memories of the moment, smells, sounds, this type of thing.
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: It's extremely real. I think this is what informs trauma,
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: the reality of these memories.
• 14:59
  Speaker 5: Yeah, I get your old sensation and it's like it's
• 15:01
  Speaker 5: sort of like an echo where you suddenly feel like
• 15:04
  Speaker 5: you act in the head a little bit, or even
• 15:08
  Speaker 5: The weird thing is that sometimes you want to sit
• 15:10
  Speaker 5: yourself in the head to try and recreate the moment
• 15:14
  Speaker 5: and resolve it. This is all the weird stuff that
• 15:17
  Speaker 5: if you've been through a trauma, that you go through
• 15:19
  Speaker 5: your mind there strange things to try and resolve the situation,
• 15:23
  Speaker 5: and it's outside the normal if your previous existence, and
• 15:27
  Speaker 5: you just feel like real weirdo when you're thinking of
• 15:30
  Speaker 5: these count of things and you can't tell your work
• 15:33
  Speaker 5: colleagues or you.
• 15:35
  Speaker 6: You're made too because it's just so far out to here.
• 15:40
  Speaker 7: And you want to go back to normal, and you
• 15:42
  Speaker 7: don't want us to come in there as the guy
• 15:43
  Speaker 7: who's got the trauma, the guy who's got the burden.
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: You know, you want to be able to be functional again.
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: I can see how that operates.
• 15:50
  Speaker 7: And you know, obviously, mobble out there you've gone through
• 15:53
  Speaker 7: exactly what you've gone through. I love to hear from them,
• 15:55
  Speaker 7: by the way, Adam chand Wright at gmail dot com.
• 15:57
  Speaker 7: And there's a lot of people out there who will
• 15:59
  Speaker 7: walking around just like you. And this is the importance
• 16:02
  Speaker 7: of this discussion. How important was it to your recovery
• 16:06
  Speaker 7: that justice be done somehow? Was that part of your thinking?
• 16:10
  Speaker 5: I thought that the bloke who was the main attacker
• 16:15
  Speaker 5: could kill someone.
• 16:17
  Speaker 6: I had no doubt about that. But this was one
• 16:19
  Speaker 6: savage bloke.
• 16:21
  Speaker 5: So I thought from that perspective that I was surprised
• 16:25
  Speaker 5: that there wasn't a greater effort put into the investigation,
• 16:29
  Speaker 5: knowing the direct threat. And it was at the time
• 16:32
  Speaker 5: where we were going through this whole thing of the
• 16:34
  Speaker 5: terrorism threat. If you see something, you say something. This
• 16:39
  Speaker 5: is something that actually happened on our streets. And I
• 16:43
  Speaker 5: was kind of expecting, all right, I've got to Monday.
• 16:46
  Speaker 5: I thought maybe the news services might run it, you know,
• 16:50
  Speaker 5: to you know, blood gets blash bashed in mindled station
• 16:53
  Speaker 5: that usually gets to run and didn't. I thought TV
• 16:57
  Speaker 5: might be onto it. I did find out later that
• 16:59
  Speaker 5: TV station's RAMSISPR and we're told that I wasn't interested
• 17:04
  Speaker 5: in talking.
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: They sp for you.
• 17:06
  Speaker 6: They spoke for me, which I was surprised by that. Bay.
• 17:11
  Speaker 5: I did do an interview on the Monday. I was
• 17:13
  Speaker 5: talking to doing with the Perth Paul Murray an interview
• 17:17
  Speaker 5: on air.
• 17:17
  Speaker 6: But if there's.
• 17:18
  Speaker 5: Any audio still existing of that, I wasn't making a
• 17:21
  Speaker 5: heck of a lot of sense.
• 17:23
  Speaker 6: I was talking on there can cast.
• 17:25
  Speaker 5: I was saying that I really feel sorry for these
• 17:29
  Speaker 5: blokes for feeling that they had to attack someone because
• 17:32
  Speaker 5: they felt on the receiving end of racism.
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: So you're too nice of blow. That's the problem here.
• 17:39
  Speaker 6: You have no way of thinking.
• 17:42
  Speaker 5: About something like this, You've never had to think about
• 17:45
  Speaker 5: it before. There's no path to follow that you can
• 17:49
  Speaker 5: pull back from somewhere. Like I wasn't an angry person.
• 17:52
  Speaker 5: I wasn't a hateful person. It wasn't until I actually
• 17:57
  Speaker 5: got to the Mirror book and detectives and I was
• 17:59
  Speaker 5: trying out this line and I sort of felt sorry
• 18:01
  Speaker 5: for them, and the detectives said to me, look, there
• 18:03
  Speaker 5: are people who come from Africa to here that have
• 18:08
  Speaker 5: had a hard time in their country and they don't
• 18:11
  Speaker 5: feel the need to be able to have to attack
• 18:14
  Speaker 5: someone to.
• 18:14
  Speaker 6: Get it out of their system.
• 18:17
  Speaker 5: And that sort of helped me to think, oh, maybe
• 18:21
  Speaker 5: I should start a push and some blame to these
• 18:23
  Speaker 5: place because I just had no concept of what.
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: I was dealing with now for sure.
• 18:28
  Speaker 7: And I think forgiveness is also a key element of
• 18:31
  Speaker 7: recovery as well, if you can take away that feeling
• 18:33
  Speaker 7: of anger and bitterness. Yeah, I mean, I think you're
• 18:35
  Speaker 7: going too far there, and I think, you know, the
• 18:37
  Speaker 7: detechnique was exactly right. We can talk about an African
• 18:40
  Speaker 7: crime problem, or we can talk about individuals within various
• 18:43
  Speaker 7: communities who were dysfunctional who.
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: Think that randomly bashing people is okay.
• 18:49
  Speaker 7: The vast majority of the African communities and the Vietnamese
• 18:51
  Speaker 7: and whoever else.
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: Want to mention, don't get involved in this.
• 18:54
  Speaker 5: You never ever hear of a white crime problem, and
• 18:58
  Speaker 5: this drives me nuts. And virtually every media release from
• 19:01
  Speaker 5: police person whose community crime is Caucasian, we don't talk
• 19:07
  Speaker 5: about a white crime problem in this country.
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: We have a young man crime problems because.
• 19:12
  Speaker 5: In the other incidents where I was attacked, the bloke
• 19:16
  Speaker 5: who did the liquor store robbery before punching me out
• 19:18
  Speaker 5: an Olphen Park, he was just a white, blonde hair blot.
• 19:23
  Speaker 5: The bloke had got me this year at the McDonald's
• 19:26
  Speaker 5: Intelimon has a bit off his face on drugs. Try
• 19:28
  Speaker 5: to steal my bag and I got to when I
• 19:31
  Speaker 5: went to retrieve it got to kick in the.
• 19:33
  Speaker 6: Neck and chest.
• 19:34
  Speaker 5: But I was able to put into effect when this
• 19:38
  Speaker 5: year's incident happened. Everything I've learned, don't personalize it. It's
• 19:43
  Speaker 5: nothing to do with you. You're just random person with a
• 19:46
  Speaker 5: random event that's happening.
• 19:48
  Speaker 6: I treated it like that. I felt sore for a
• 19:50
  Speaker 6: couple of days.
• 19:52
  Speaker 5: It's a weekend for the injury, and by depersonalizing it,
• 19:56
  Speaker 5: it's just like just a polymic. Now it comes into
• 20:00
  Speaker 5: that place of being an amusing incident that happened.
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: The crazy states. Someone is in in that moment to
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: randomly attack.
• 20:08
  Speaker 7: Somebody, and this is probably going to be one of
• 20:11
  Speaker 7: several incidents across this person's day and it's not going
• 20:15
  Speaker 7: to end well for them. These are ways to rationalize it.
• 20:18
  Speaker 7: But you've still been attacked. And let's go back to
• 20:21
  Speaker 7: the Glandelow incident. So detectives have got it and they've
• 20:27
  Speaker 7: done all the right things DNA samples and so and
• 20:29
  Speaker 7: so forth.
• 20:30
  Speaker 5: So I need ask the officer, Okay, so how are
• 20:32
  Speaker 5: you going to follow this up? And his words were,
• 20:34
  Speaker 5: I'm night shoot in a couple of weeks, so we'll
• 20:37
  Speaker 5: go out and have a look. And from that reply
• 20:43
  Speaker 5: to now, that's all I've gone directly from them.
• 20:45
  Speaker 6: I haven't heard from them since.
• 20:48
  Speaker 5: But a later incident, which I think we're going to
• 20:50
  Speaker 5: go into, I was able to find out a little
• 20:52
  Speaker 5: bit indirectly about what happened with the police.
• 20:55
  Speaker 7: But we've got in the interim, so they do nothing effectively,
• 20:59
  Speaker 7: or they don't tell you what they've done, and how
• 21:01
  Speaker 7: long it lapses before the next milestone in this story.
• 21:05
  Speaker 5: Okay, I was just throwing something else there which might
• 21:08
  Speaker 5: be of interest. The night I got back to six
• 21:09
  Speaker 5: Bigar so I think it was the Wednesday, week after
• 21:13
  Speaker 5: the attack, so it had about ten days. And got
• 21:16
  Speaker 5: into the newsroom and I don't know how to put
• 21:20
  Speaker 5: a news bulletin together. It's just not in my hand.
• 21:23
  Speaker 5: You just do when you put a news bullets together,
• 21:25
  Speaker 5: get your weather, you get your intros and your outros,
• 21:29
  Speaker 5: and you look through the stories of the day.
• 21:31
  Speaker 6: I'm sitting there. I didn't sell John.
• 21:34
  Speaker 5: Nichols or I think Amerew glen Cross was in there
• 21:36
  Speaker 5: two at the time that I can't remember how to
• 21:38
  Speaker 5: put a bulletin together. So this is about I got
• 21:43
  Speaker 5: in at about five o'clock.
• 21:44
  Speaker 6: Or just before five o'clock. I'm sitting there going what
• 21:47
  Speaker 6: do I do.
• 21:48
  Speaker 5: So for the first couple of bulletins, I just read
• 21:51
  Speaker 5: some bulletins from earlier in the day, and about eight
• 21:55
  Speaker 5: thirty at night, it's just everything clicked back into place.
• 21:58
  Speaker 5: It's like a part of my mind woke up again
• 22:01
  Speaker 5: and it had been shut down because of the concussion
• 22:04
  Speaker 5: from the attack. But again, because you don't know what's
• 22:07
  Speaker 5: happening to you, just go Not only do I not
• 22:10
  Speaker 5: know what's happening to me, I don't know how to
• 22:13
  Speaker 5: respond or to you with this situation.
• 22:16
  Speaker 7: And one thing in media is you need to project
• 22:18
  Speaker 7: an air or competence at all times.
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: All times.
• 22:24
  Speaker 5: I don't feel like you know, sometimes when you talk
• 22:27
  Speaker 5: to police, they're great, and sometimes you talk to them
• 22:30
  Speaker 5: and they're like, oh, I've had.
• 22:31
  Speaker 6: A bad day.
• 22:31
  Speaker 5: I don't want to talk to you. No, with me,
• 22:33
  Speaker 5: you've got to be on all the time. So fast
• 22:37
  Speaker 5: forward the Big Boss for six PM. You express some
• 22:42
  Speaker 5: you know, this great sympathy for me, when about three
• 22:44
  Speaker 5: weeks after the tack when you visit in Perth and
• 22:47
  Speaker 5: got right in made me redundant. So I came back
• 22:53
  Speaker 5: to Victoria from closest job, like you get to my hometown.
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: And too long with colin the western districts of Victoria.
• 23:01
  Speaker 5: Yes, And we're in a staff meeting one day and
• 23:07
  Speaker 5: just talking about the usual crap and one of the
• 23:10
  Speaker 5: staff members walks into the Star being it says Lance,
• 23:14
  Speaker 5: there's two detectives from way at the door for you. Okay,
• 23:20
  Speaker 5: no idea. Maybe it was about the attack or something
• 23:23
  Speaker 5: in pintlope what.
• 23:24
  Speaker 7: You're thinking, this is probably a good development. They got
• 23:26
  Speaker 7: they caught the attackers. There's something going to happen now.
• 23:29
  Speaker 6: No, I just thought I've got no idea to hear.
• 23:32
  Speaker 6: There was one thought about the gown. Lizy Well, I
• 23:35
  Speaker 6: just had no idea.
• 23:37
  Speaker 5: So I was We're the WA Sex Assault Squad and
• 23:42
  Speaker 5: we're here to investigate a sexual assault which happened this
• 23:47
  Speaker 5: time this date. So we go into the boardroom, we
• 23:50
  Speaker 5: sit down, and we start talking about the sexual assault.
• 23:54
  Speaker 5: And after about a minute of this, I'm.
• 23:56
  Speaker 6: Thinking, I know, I haven't done anything.
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: Did they tell you who the victim was?
• 24:02
  Speaker 5: Well, we're about a minute into this. Is the victim
• 24:07
  Speaker 5: a male or a female? Because I'm gay and if
• 24:10
  Speaker 5: it's a woman, I haven't so I asked them, is
• 24:13
  Speaker 5: the victim a male or a female? And I think, oh,
• 24:16
  Speaker 5: it's a woman. And it's like, I'm like, I don't
• 24:20
  Speaker 5: the kids have a term for a now gold and gay.
• 24:22
  Speaker 5: So that's someone that's never had sex with a woman
• 24:26
  Speaker 5: and had no intention of It's just like, you know,
• 24:29
  Speaker 5: you're just back for the one team. I fully intend
• 24:32
  Speaker 5: to go out at the end of my life with
• 24:34
  Speaker 5: a you know, bout under my arm, back to the million,
• 24:37
  Speaker 5: holding my hea up with pride, you know, with a
• 24:39
  Speaker 5: golden duck.
• 24:40
  Speaker 6: So as soon as they say it's a.
• 24:42
  Speaker 5: Woman, I just roll my eyes and I just told
• 24:45
  Speaker 5: one gay I could see the two detechnique to sort
• 24:49
  Speaker 5: of look at each other. They've traveled from Firth to
• 24:51
  Speaker 5: Melbourne too klak.
• 24:53
  Speaker 6: To talk to a gay guy about.
• 24:55
  Speaker 5: So we go through the wig role, the process and
• 24:58
  Speaker 5: they show me pictures of the victim, the young lady.
• 25:02
  Speaker 5: I'm racking my brains. I'm thinking, because I'm taking you
• 25:05
  Speaker 5: it's just someone from I know, from six pr or
• 25:09
  Speaker 5: from church that I'm running to, or has made accusation
• 25:13
  Speaker 5: against me that I don't know. I don't recognize her anyway.
• 25:19
  Speaker 5: They I sort of half heard one of the detectives
• 25:22
  Speaker 5: on the phone outside the station is they say, we
• 25:25
  Speaker 5: were going to go down to Kolak Police station. We're
• 25:27
  Speaker 5: going to interview you.
• 25:29
  Speaker 6: So I could.
• 25:30
  Speaker 5: See since one of the detectives on his phone obviously
• 25:33
  Speaker 5: went back there office in perthday that's something guy. But
• 25:37
  Speaker 5: we go through the ring arole, we get down to
• 25:40
  Speaker 5: Klake Police station. I get a mug shot taken. We
• 25:44
  Speaker 5: go into an interview room. They asked me the hard questions.
• 25:48
  Speaker 5: It comes up that apparently how I'm linked to it
• 25:52
  Speaker 5: is that they've found some DNA at the crime scene,
• 25:57
  Speaker 5: which is my DNA in bull Creek in What's and
• 26:01
  Speaker 5: I've found out since then by ringing about it in
• 26:04
  Speaker 5: media rating Will said what they were investigating was a
• 26:07
  Speaker 5: woman had told police that there was a bloke who
• 26:11
  Speaker 5: was whistling and acting like he was trying to find
• 26:14
  Speaker 5: his dog, and he threw her to the ground and
• 26:19
  Speaker 5: sexually assaulted her. And that was the complaint that they
• 26:22
  Speaker 5: were investigation. This was the night before Australia Day in
• 26:27
  Speaker 5: twenty sixteen. According to the article, this is what I'm
• 26:29
  Speaker 5: going on. But my DNA is on a shoe at
• 26:35
  Speaker 5: the crime scene. So they go back and investigate on
• 26:40
  Speaker 5: their computer system. Right, DNA matches lands White. He's got
• 26:46
  Speaker 5: DNA at two crime scenes. That's what they can all.
• 26:49
  Speaker 5: Their computer tells them the crime scene in bull Creek
• 26:52
  Speaker 5: and the crime scene in Glendelow. But the police don't
• 26:55
  Speaker 5: know that I was the crime victim, victim, not perpetrator
• 26:59
  Speaker 5: in Glenlo.
• 27:00
  Speaker 6: So they're following a lee who've got a.
• 27:03
  Speaker 7: Bloke they like in these situations. They don't give advance warning.
• 27:08
  Speaker 7: They're coming across from Perth to cool A, thinking, get
• 27:11
  Speaker 7: the handcuffs. Three, we've got the suspect. The DNA's there,
• 27:14
  Speaker 7: what else do we need?
• 27:14
  Speaker 6: Well, I did say that they were interviewing a number
• 27:17
  Speaker 6: of people.
• 27:18
  Speaker 5: They did tell me that I wasn't the only person
• 27:20
  Speaker 5: being questioned about this, so I kind of knew straight away. Okay,
• 27:24
  Speaker 5: this hopefully will resolve pretty quickly. I'm laughing about it now.
• 27:28
  Speaker 5: It wasn't funny at the time because I was dreamely stressed.
• 27:32
  Speaker 7: They could be speaking your number of people, but they
• 27:34
  Speaker 7: come all the way from Perth to kol Act they're not.
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: You're the number one suspect, I can guarantee.
• 27:39
  Speaker 5: Okay, that's interesting to know, right all right, Well, yeah,
• 27:43
  Speaker 5: I didn't look at it that way at the time.
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: But otherwise the local compass could have could have dealt
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: with this.
• 27:48
  Speaker 7: They could say you aside, they wouldn't have to come
• 27:49
  Speaker 7: all the way from Perth, and so I think that
• 27:52
  Speaker 7: that in the case they will ready to grab you
• 27:54
  Speaker 7: and extraduct you back to Perth.
• 27:56
  Speaker 5: Wow, okay, okay, so I'm pretty much again it's a
• 28:02
  Speaker 5: personal spacing. I feel hugely in vain. I'm just nervous.
• 28:06
  Speaker 5: It's uncomfortable in the office with the poor old days
• 28:09
  Speaker 5: because I don't explained to the rest of the staff
• 28:10
  Speaker 5: why the two cops from ware they nursed in the
• 28:14
  Speaker 5: middle of the start beating. So I was just up
• 28:16
  Speaker 5: front with it, this is this is what's going on.
• 28:19
  Speaker 5: And to their credit, the guys in the office were great.
• 28:22
  Speaker 5: Ladies were uncomfortable and we've got a potential sex attacker
• 28:26
  Speaker 5: in the building. So I fully get that, fully understand that,
• 28:29
  Speaker 5: but it's still stressful, not knowing how long this was
• 28:33
  Speaker 5: going to take to resolve.
• 28:35
  Speaker 6: So it was about a month later I got call
• 28:39
  Speaker 6: that I've been eliminated as a suspect.
• 28:42
  Speaker 5: And on the article about the bull creep attacking Perth,
• 28:46
  Speaker 5: they had a photofit picture on the article.
• 28:48
  Speaker 6: Who was I'm dark haired, dark eyed, this guy was
• 28:52
  Speaker 6: having sort of Jiji hair like. They were looking poor,
• 28:54
  Speaker 6: seven years younger than me.
• 28:56
  Speaker 5: I didn't look so I'm assuming that the lady was attacked.
• 29:00
  Speaker 5: Was shown the photo of the make shot of me
• 29:02
  Speaker 5: and said, no, I don't know that, I'm assuming.
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: I wonder if they could.
• 29:09
  Speaker 7: Have done that before they you would let the birth
• 29:13
  Speaker 7: for Kolak. Maybe they had a footy game you go
• 29:17
  Speaker 7: to or something in Victoria. I was once actually, I
• 29:20
  Speaker 7: detectives come across from Victoria to Perth once actually to
• 29:23
  Speaker 7: talk about some information that I had regarding a murder.
• 29:27
  Speaker 7: And they came on the Friday when there was a
• 29:30
  Speaker 7: big game Collingwood was playing. I think that was the
• 29:34
  Speaker 7: I think that was the actual plan. A month after
• 29:38
  Speaker 7: they visited you, what happens there's another communication.
• 29:41
  Speaker 5: Okay, So I'm on a train back to Cola from
• 29:44
  Speaker 5: my home to long and I get a call on
• 29:47
  Speaker 5: the train and they start asking me more questions.
• 29:50
  Speaker 6: Have you been to poor Ragoon?
• 29:53
  Speaker 5: Oh, by the way, we eliminated you as a suspect
• 29:57
  Speaker 5: since a leaf the path over me. And the cop goes, oh, sorry,
• 30:02
  Speaker 5: I suppose I should.
• 30:03
  Speaker 6: Have opened up with that.
• 30:05
  Speaker 5: Yeah, And I tell my but it's at work.
• 30:09
  Speaker 6: It gets back to normal ish. It was still awkward
• 30:14
  Speaker 6: dealing with the police a little bit, just a part
• 30:16
  Speaker 6: of my job as a journalist. And then a few.
• 30:20
  Speaker 5: Weeks only a few days sorry, after the big boss
• 30:23
  Speaker 5: of the three csmes Ace radio came down.
• 30:27
  Speaker 6: So we're making redundant, so I think they panicked.
• 30:32
  Speaker 5: They never at any stage stopped for me to explain,
• 30:35
  Speaker 5: you know, the time of what happened.
• 30:37
  Speaker 6: They just thought this blokes a bit dodgy. Let's getting
• 30:40
  Speaker 6: out of here.
• 30:41
  Speaker 5: Because I was been praised so high heaven for turning
• 30:45
  Speaker 5: the Collac service from the worst in the network to
• 30:47
  Speaker 5: the best in the network. And I didn't know at
• 30:50
  Speaker 5: the time that I found out just after I'd been
• 30:53
  Speaker 5: made redundant, and I've been nominated for an ACRO for
• 30:55
  Speaker 5: a best News thread of the Commoscial Radio Awards, and
• 30:58
  Speaker 5: I found.
• 30:59
  Speaker 6: Out a little bit later.
• 31:00
  Speaker 5: I wasn't invited into the ceremony, but once so, I'm
• 31:04
  Speaker 5: confident that everything I did at Colact was as good
• 31:09
  Speaker 5: and professional and top munch as it could be. And
• 31:12
  Speaker 5: I just got seen as being damaged goods and you know,
• 31:15
  Speaker 5: a nuisance and you're out the door.
• 31:18
  Speaker 7: You could certainly come to that conclusion the sequence of events.
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: But I mean, the listeners and I are both wondering
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: that the DNA, I mean, that's the thing, like they've bore.
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: He's been eliminated, But how the hell does his there?
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: This is like a movie. You got previr instancy how.
• 31:31
  Speaker 5: Do I get what I know in my head into
• 31:34
  Speaker 5: someone else's head that I'm innocent and this is what happened.
• 31:38
  Speaker 5: How do I get my knowledge of this into your
• 31:41
  Speaker 5: head so that you know exactly what I know about
• 31:44
  Speaker 5: what happened. So I tell them that, Well, I buy
• 31:48
  Speaker 5: my shoes at Murray Street Perth. I worked by the
• 31:51
  Speaker 5: same sort of shoe Murray Street per Target because they're
• 31:54
  Speaker 5: cheap and easy and comfortable into ten bucks. And they
• 31:58
  Speaker 5: tell me, and I show them my shoes. I was
• 32:01
  Speaker 5: still wearing the same type. I said, yep, it's the
• 32:04
  Speaker 5: same touch shoe, but a different size. So I put
• 32:08
  Speaker 5: together what's happened And I'll never know this for sure.
• 32:12
  Speaker 5: When I go to buy shoes, they hang from a
• 32:14
  Speaker 5: rat in the store. I'm shy at nine, so you
• 32:19
  Speaker 5: usually got six, seven, and eight. I put my finger
• 32:23
  Speaker 5: or my son in the shoe drag, the six long drag,
• 32:26
  Speaker 5: the seven long drag, the eight A long til I
• 32:28
  Speaker 5: get up side nine put my size nine.
• 32:31
  Speaker 6: I always wear a nine.
• 32:33
  Speaker 5: I don't know the size of the person's shoe that
• 32:38
  Speaker 5: was found at the scene. I don't know if it
• 32:40
  Speaker 5: was bigger than mine or smaller than mine. And I'm
• 32:42
  Speaker 5: assuming because it was my son had been in the shoe.
• 32:46
  Speaker 5: And they did tell me later that my thumb print,
• 32:49
  Speaker 5: my thumb print was inside the shoe, and they came
• 32:53
  Speaker 5: to the conclusion they told me that I must have
• 32:55
  Speaker 5: tried the shoe on. I don't try the shoes on.
• 32:58
  Speaker 5: I know I'm side nine. And the next time I
• 33:02
  Speaker 5: went to tay this is in gil on. You just
• 33:05
  Speaker 5: subconsciously did the same thing. And as soon as I
• 33:08
  Speaker 5: did it and draged you along with my thought, ah,
• 33:14
  Speaker 5: this is how it's got in there. And really a
• 33:16
  Speaker 5: bit more about DNA. It's a lot more sensitive apparently
• 33:19
  Speaker 5: in being able to detect DNA than when they first
• 33:23
  Speaker 5: when DNA first became a thing, so to the point
• 33:26
  Speaker 5: where it can become a hindrance to the investigation because
• 33:30
  Speaker 5: you got you've got DNA on everything. I've got DNA
• 33:34
  Speaker 5: on your furniture. Here in this there's probably some of
• 33:37
  Speaker 5: my DNA on you from when we shook hands.
• 33:39
  Speaker 7: I can be in trouble. You're you know, you're a
• 33:42
  Speaker 7: known person to the police.
• 33:44
  Speaker 5: Well seeking I was going to broke the news to
• 33:46
  Speaker 5: three I w's Ross Stephenson, who was he was using
• 33:49
  Speaker 5: the same panel in Coolak when he on the weekend
• 33:53
  Speaker 5: he did some Saturday morning kind of show where we
• 33:56
  Speaker 5: would go into three sis Kolak and use the same
• 33:58
  Speaker 5: panel in me.
• 33:58
  Speaker 6: Does the DNA.
• 33:59
  Speaker 5: Travel from me touching the desk to Ross touching the
• 34:02
  Speaker 5: same butt.
• 34:03
  Speaker 6: I don't know.
• 34:04
  Speaker 7: In this day, even with partial DNA, they're going to
• 34:06
  Speaker 7: be able to fill in the gaps with AI. So
• 34:09
  Speaker 7: it's an incredibly powerful tool and will only get more
• 34:12
  Speaker 7: powerful than I think. Unfortunately, it does have these little
• 34:15
  Speaker 7: quirks in it that the inadvertent transfer of DNA onto
• 34:19
  Speaker 7: other surfaces and items can lead to.
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: Just this situation.
• 34:23
  Speaker 7: I'm sure the people out there, or maybe there are,
• 34:25
  Speaker 7: maybe they are, they're the same experience.
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: Get in touch if you have Adam shand Rather at
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: gmail dot com.
• 34:30
  Speaker 7: Next time you go shoes shopping, mightn't suggest you wear
• 34:32
  Speaker 7: latex glass and maybe about lava as well.
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: Don't do that. But all of this doesn't help you
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: in your trauma because.
• 34:39
  Speaker 7: You're expecting those coppers are coming from Perth with news
• 34:42
  Speaker 7: about that they caught you a perpetrated So I mean,
• 34:45
  Speaker 7: I'm glad to hear that they're following up on.
• 34:47
  Speaker 1: This ball Greek section assault but yeah, so what had
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: happen to you?
• 34:50
  Speaker 6: A book?
• 34:50
  Speaker 5: I wish to put the same effort into investigating my
• 34:53
  Speaker 5: bashing as I did with this poor lady who I'm
• 34:57
  Speaker 5: glad they're going.
• 34:58
  Speaker 6: To that the effort to follow it up.
• 34:59
  Speaker 5: I hadn't done that part of the mixed feelings you
• 35:01
  Speaker 5: have about the whole thing. I'm glad you're doing your job,
• 35:04
  Speaker 5: and they did with the job in the end to
• 35:06
  Speaker 5: put me through just hell. In the meantime, I'm just
• 35:12
  Speaker 5: thinking about DNA now, as like with the officer who
• 35:18
  Speaker 5: asked me. The officer had to ask me what was
• 35:22
  Speaker 5: the crime scene at Glendalow, so that's not on his computer.
• 35:26
  Speaker 5: So I could walk now through another crime scene and
• 35:30
  Speaker 5: I avoid an if police are out doing a job,
• 35:34
  Speaker 5: I don't know whether you're the crime scene because I
• 35:37
  Speaker 5: could touch something. My DNA shows up on a computer
• 35:41
  Speaker 5: parnabas and now it's Sam's white. Three crime scenes and
• 35:44
  Speaker 5: the investigating officer of the third case doesn't know what
• 35:49
  Speaker 5: the second and the first crime scene once were.
• 35:53
  Speaker 6: Where I was the victim of.
• 35:55
  Speaker 5: Crime in one circumstance and an eliminated suspect of the second.
• 35:59
  Speaker 5: So I apparently got to go through the Supreme Court
• 36:02
  Speaker 5: in WA to get my DNA take off the register.
• 36:06
  Speaker 5: I don't want to go through that process. I just
• 36:08
  Speaker 5: to avoid crime scenes. There's no real sort of win
• 36:12
  Speaker 5: in this. Good plan avoid.
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: Crime scenes is avoid crime scenes. But you don't know
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: next the question, next the question that your.
• 36:21
  Speaker 7: Attackers man handled you or three of them, and their
• 36:24
  Speaker 7: DNA would have been all over you as well.
• 36:26
  Speaker 1: And you can't tell.
• 36:27
  Speaker 7: Me that they haven't already offended, since I'd be very
• 36:30
  Speaker 7: surprised if they hadn't.
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: You wonder whether or not their DNA has come up
• 36:35
  Speaker 1: in relation to your case.
• 36:37
  Speaker 5: I kind of looked at it like the Clarmont serial
• 36:39
  Speaker 5: killing scene, where I think it was about twenty years
• 36:41
  Speaker 5: the Kimodo on the closed line was the link that
• 36:45
  Speaker 5: said Bradley Edwards and but plants Williams. I think it
• 36:49
  Speaker 5: was the public servant who you know a lot, or
• 36:52
  Speaker 5: Peter Waigers. The Clermont man was a suspect. Nearly every
• 36:55
  Speaker 5: taxi driver in Perth had their taxi gone through. Lots
• 36:59
  Speaker 5: of people get caught up in these things and you
• 37:02
  Speaker 5: never hear about them.
• 37:04
  Speaker 6: So I know I'm not Robinson Crusoe.
• 37:06
  Speaker 5: But in terms of dealing with this, but it did
• 37:11
  Speaker 5: make the trauma from the original batching worse and still
• 37:16
  Speaker 5: does to this day. Because I've done dealing with I'm
• 37:19
  Speaker 5: still dealing with the collect thing to a lesser extent
• 37:22
  Speaker 5: than what I'm dealing with.
• 37:23
  Speaker 6: Particle and work is part of that.
• 37:25
  Speaker 5: Part of the reason why I'm not working not interested
• 37:27
  Speaker 5: in going back to work was the response from workplaces.
• 37:32
  Speaker 5: I made it worse, and I don't blame the workplaces
• 37:35
  Speaker 5: for that. They were dealing with something that did not
• 37:38
  Speaker 5: come across before. I was dealing with something that I
• 37:41
  Speaker 5: had not come across before. That they didn't know how
• 37:45
  Speaker 5: to help me. I didn't know how to help be
• 37:48
  Speaker 5: disappointed with Fairfax Media. We're the owners at the time,
• 37:52
  Speaker 5: and I would have thought the war correspondents coming back
• 37:56
  Speaker 5: from war zones, but his paper correspondents to the Age
• 38:00
  Speaker 5: Syney Morning Carol. Surely they know how to deal brief
• 38:03
  Speaker 5: people have been in traumatic seitu are, but there was
• 38:06
  Speaker 5: I know that the station in Birth was getting advice
• 38:12
  Speaker 5: externally about how to deal with me, but all the
• 38:15
  Speaker 5: advice was making everything worse for me. Because one of
• 38:19
  Speaker 5: the problems that came from the attack was when I
• 38:22
  Speaker 5: was been thrown around during the bashing. I didn't like
• 38:24
  Speaker 5: being disorientated, and what did they do?
• 38:28
  Speaker 6: Let's change answers ship. All I want to do was
• 38:30
  Speaker 6: get back to normal.
• 38:32
  Speaker 5: Let's change let's put in Let's have me reading the
• 38:34
  Speaker 5: six o'clock news and starting an hour earlier. Let's have
• 38:37
  Speaker 5: him going home. All I want to do is get
• 38:39
  Speaker 5: back to my same routine. I wasn't being consulted in this.
• 38:43
  Speaker 5: Decisions were being made for me. Again, I don't blame
• 38:47
  Speaker 5: anyone because but I hope we learned from it, and
• 38:50
  Speaker 5: the media organizations or any business, if they've got somebody
• 38:54
  Speaker 5: coming back to work, knows the best way that the
• 38:58
  Speaker 5: person needs to feel that they're in control, that they
• 39:01
  Speaker 5: had the backing at the workplace.
• 39:03
  Speaker 6: Fully the I'm a little bit wary of these.
• 39:07
  Speaker 5: Employment assistance programs because I've heard I didn't have enough
• 39:11
  Speaker 5: trust in them to approach them, because I'm aware that
• 39:15
  Speaker 5: you mist results with them. Some of them are UNI
• 39:18
  Speaker 5: students who've done a psychology degree whole dealing with people
• 39:22
  Speaker 5: who are ever inter organized. But trust is a big
• 39:25
  Speaker 5: thing that goes out of the window when you're dealing
• 39:27
  Speaker 5: with this kind of thing. So it's hard you need
• 39:30
  Speaker 5: other people in your life to be proactive inquiring, and
• 39:34
  Speaker 5: maybe you'll rebuff them, but eventually you'll just get to
• 39:38
  Speaker 5: a place of just mental exhausting. It's like I need
• 39:41
  Speaker 5: help that can come weeks, months, years later. I'm sort
• 39:44
  Speaker 5: of at that place now where I mean a thirteen
• 39:47
  Speaker 5: years later, we're in a much better place to deal
• 39:49
  Speaker 5: with it, and have been dealing with it this parts year.
• 39:53
  Speaker 6: So learned a lot about personal space.
• 40:00
  Speaker 5: I've heard from war veterans that when they go horseback
• 40:03
  Speaker 5: riding in the high ca trigger it seems to do
• 40:05
  Speaker 5: it good because they're getting out and reclaiming their personal space,
• 40:10
  Speaker 5: which after an attack, all your personal space previous limits,
• 40:21
  Speaker 5: like you know, uncomfortable sitting opposite you now. But if
• 40:26
  Speaker 5: I was at the beach at Ocean Grove the last
• 40:28
  Speaker 5: Christmas and there was a black father and son throughout
• 40:34
  Speaker 5: the service, they're three hundred meters away, they were in
• 40:37
  Speaker 5: my personal space. So getting used to walking past people
• 40:44
  Speaker 5: on the street who are not in control of their behavior,
• 40:47
  Speaker 5: or working for a radio manager who's not in control
• 40:50
  Speaker 5: of their behavior that will trigger you, and a trigger.
• 40:54
  Speaker 6: I've only had one full on trigger. That's when you
• 40:59
  Speaker 6: that's when I was at home with Mum, I was asleep.
• 41:02
  Speaker 5: She touched me on the back in the exact same
• 41:05
  Speaker 5: spot that the attackers did. For the next ten minutes,
• 41:07
  Speaker 5: I'm just almost screaming, crying, can't breathe can't catch my breath.
• 41:15
  Speaker 5: But i know from the psychology will help to receive.
• 41:19
  Speaker 5: These are just feelings. They will pass and that's probably
• 41:23
  Speaker 5: the best. And twice I've got hard to hear at
• 41:25
  Speaker 5: the time. But yeah, you can get to the point
• 41:30
  Speaker 5: where you always have a little sort of traces of
• 41:34
  Speaker 5: the traumas there, but it doesn't dial up, and for
• 41:37
  Speaker 5: hours of a day they can just you're not even
• 41:38
  Speaker 5: thinking about it. But usually every day something comes into
• 41:42
  Speaker 5: you your mindsector you think about either that or did
• 41:47
  Speaker 5: you see a police officer, and you're taken back to
• 41:49
  Speaker 5: cool Wak and.
• 41:55
  Speaker 1: Mats. Thank you for sharing the story. It's a very
• 41:57
  Speaker 1: important one. I think it's important for all victims of crime.
• 42:02
  Speaker 2: I think in some way, Truman Italy, these incidents will
• 42:06
  Speaker 2: leave an imprint on us, on our psyching, on our bodies,
• 42:10
  Speaker 2: physical scars, mental scars.
• 42:12
  Speaker 4: It's how we deal with it. And you've just given
• 42:14
  Speaker 4: a graphic depiction of.
• 42:16
  Speaker 8: The long term issues that are involved here, so thank
• 42:19
  Speaker 8: you for sharing it with me, and I want to
• 42:22
  Speaker 8: urge other people out there. If you've been a victim
• 42:24
  Speaker 8: of crime, if you haven't that good service from the police,
• 42:28
  Speaker 8: or you're still dealing with the trauma, I'd like to
• 42:31
  Speaker 8: hear from you. But also this extraordinary story of lands
• 42:34
  Speaker 8: is this twist in the story where he goes from
• 42:37
  Speaker 8: victim in one crime, doesn't get any service, becomes a
• 42:40
  Speaker 8: suspect in another.
• 42:41
  Speaker 4: If you've had the same experience, I'd love to hear
• 42:44
  Speaker 4: from you.
• 42:44
  Speaker 1: Adam Shanned writer at gmail dot com.
• 42:47
  Speaker 4: You can also report crime to crime stoppers one one hundred,
• 42:50
  Speaker 4: triple three, triple zero. But maybe you don't trust the
• 42:53
  Speaker 4: cops after this story, I understand that too, but you
• 42:56
  Speaker 4: can always call me or write to me.
• 42:58
  Speaker 1: Adam Shann writer at gmail dot com.
• 43:00
  Speaker 4: Thank you lads for coming in and sharing this one.
• 43:05
  Speaker 6: You can hold out a lot of.
• 43:06
  Speaker 7: That not a problem, and this is what I'm here for,
• 43:08
  Speaker 7: and I'm here for the audience exactly in this way,
• 43:10
  Speaker 7: so please don't start get in touch.
• 43:12
  Speaker 1: This has been Adam sham for real frime. Thanks for
• 43:27
  Speaker 1: listening to this episode and supporting this story.
• 43:31
  Speaker 7: Independent storytelling that shapes the world is what pod shape
• 43:33
  Speaker 7: really cares about.
• 43:35
  Speaker 2: Right now, there's thousands of people listening to this show
• 43:37
  Speaker 2: and our other True Crimes, and they're completely engaged.
• 43:41
  Speaker 1: More than ten million Australians listen to podcasts each week.
• 43:44
  Speaker 2: If you've ever thought about advertising your business in a podcast,
• 43:47
  Speaker 2: there's a link to reach out in the show notes,
• 43:49
  Speaker 2: or
• 43:50
  Speaker 1: Head to podshape dot com to book a free call.