Latest / Wired To Hunt Podcast / Ep. 292: The Art of the Perfect Shot and Recovery with Mark Drury

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Ep. 292: The Art of the Perfect Shot and Recovery with Mark Drury · Wired To Hunt Podcast

• 0:02
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wire to Hunt podcast, your home for
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: deer hunting news, stories and strategies, and now your host,
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: Mark Kenyon. Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast. I'm
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: your host, Mark Kenyan in this episode number two two
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: and to dan this show, I'm joined by Mark drew
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: to get an absolute masterclass on everything he's learned about
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: handling the moments leading up to a shot on an
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: animal and everything to do afterwards to ensure a successful recovery.
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: All right, welcome to the Wire to Hunt podcast, brought
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: to you by on X, And like I just said,
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: we've got the mad scientist himself, Mark Drewy on the
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: show again. And as has been the case, gosh every
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: other time he's been in the podcast, this one is
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: just fascinating. We already had the conversation. I know what
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: you're about to listen to, and I know you're gonna
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: enjoy it. Our focus in this one, though, it's pretty
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: different than our past episodes with him, If you remember
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: the last two we did, we're really um, really in
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: the weeds conversations around all the different factors that influenced
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: deer movement. Today, we're taking a huge pivot from that
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: moving in a very different direction, but equally interesting, and
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: our focus is all about closing the deal in this
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: very last part of a hunt, that being everything that
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: happens in those seconds and minutes leading up to a shot,
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: how you actually execute that shot, and then finally everything
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: and I mean everything you need to be thinking about
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: when it comes to determining what kind of hits you got,
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: how long the way before tracking, how to start the
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: track job, how to learn more things from from the arrow,
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: from the side of impact, from how the deer behaved,
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: all sorts of stuff. I mean it is. It's a
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: level of detail on this topic that I don't think
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: we've ever We've definitely never gone into this degree on
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: this podcast, and I don't know if I've ever run
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: across any other resource any other podcast that's done this
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: to this degree either. So man, I am I'm just
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: pumped for you guys to hear this one, especially with
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: hunting seasons so close to arriving. I think it's just
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: the perfect topic to get just like into the nitty
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: gritty on to make sure that we're all going to
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: be capitalizing on that you know, one special moment when
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: it finally does arrive, when it hopefully does arrive. I
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: want to make sure that we all, you know, squeak
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: out every little bit of a good karma, of good luck,
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: of having the odds in your favorite make sure we're
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: doing everything we possibly can be doing to make sure
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: that our hunt ends the right way. All right? With
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: me on the line again, Uh, for the first time,
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: probably since it was almost exactly one year ago, we
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: got Mark Drewy back with us on the show. Thanks
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: for coming back, Mark, Thank you for having me. Mark.
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: How you doing great? I'm great. Uh. You know, we're
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: just talking before recorded how this is that time of
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: year that we're just running around like crazy people. And
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: that's definitely the case for me. And I've got I've
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: got camouflage lined up sitting out by my trucks. As
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: soon as we get done recording, I'm gonna have a
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: quick bite with my wife and son and then jump
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: in the truck, drive to a truck property and try
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: to get out in time to see some bucks on
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: the bean fields. So there you go. Beautiful weather for
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: it right now. Yeah, it's actually not too bad, a
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: little bit of a little bit of cool streak. So
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: what about you doing well over there in Iowa and Missouri. Absolutely, man,
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: things are good. I mean, I've got some new property
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: we've been playing with this summer, setting it up for
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: the fall, which is always exciting. Cameras are running. Haven't
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: really checked any as of yet, probably a few weeks
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: before I check them. But things are good. You know,
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: We've had some decent weather here in terms of rain
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: this summer on the crops, Uh, started out really wet,
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: then really dry. Now we've had a few decent timing rains,
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: so that's always a plus. And at the studio it's
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: been all things dear cast Man. I've just been uh
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: over time trying to get it ready and ready for
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: launch here. Yeah, a lot of new stuff coming down
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  Speaker 1: the pipeline at here, and Uh, one of these days,
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  Speaker 1: I'd love to just get an excuse to talk to
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: you for an hour or two just about what's going
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: on in your life and what you're doing your farm.
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: But I know people probably want us to just get
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: into the the nitty gritty um. So I had an
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: idea for our chat that is related to what's coming
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: down the line of deer cast Um Here's I was
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: thinking over the years, you know, both getting to chat
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: with you on Wild podcast a lot, and then being
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: on a number of Wired on podcasts, and then of
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: course you know, I've I've consumed your shows and DVDs
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: for years and years years. There's been a handful of
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: things that stood up to me about you, um first,
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: and you can correct me if you think these are wrong, um.
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: But of course, it's like always been a standout that
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: you are super analytical when it comes to your approach
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: of deer hunting, which has always been something I've loved
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: because I've kind of tried to I feel like that
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: resonates with me a lot, and I'm mirrored a lot
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: of what I do from things I've learned um from
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: you over the years. But the other thing that always
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: has just been at least apparent to me is that
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: you seem to be just ice cold in the moment
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: of truth. Like you are locked down, you are unfazed,
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: You're on point every single time you've got a deer
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: walking into range, and then you you you are on
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: it as soon as you pull the trigger too. You
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: seem to know just what to do afterwards. You have
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: a plan in place, Everything seems to be well thought
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: out when it comes to what happens before the shop
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: and after the shop. And it also seems like you've
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: had a ton of experience with those moments, probably as
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: much er more than almost anyone else out there. So
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: this all brings me to what I thought we could
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: drill into today, which is this whole topic of what
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: happens before and after the moment of the shot, So
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: everything leading up to the deer coming into range and
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: how you are handling that moment and things when it
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: comes to your archery practice or our arm practice, whatever,
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: and then everything that brings us to how you actually
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: recover it deer um. And I think that's correctly if
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: I'm wrong here, but that ties in really perfectly to
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: one of the new features coming out with Deercast that
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: I do want to hear more about at this point.
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: So a is that right? And my way off base
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: of those things, and be if I'm not off base,
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: should we dive into that? I would love to dive
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: into it. And you know, we've been doing it for
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: a long time and through time, if you, uh, you
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: you learned disciplines out there in the field that uh,
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: you know, life's all about eliminating problems going forward. So
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: if you make some bad hits in your early days,
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: and you're like, that track job was miserable, man, I
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: couldn't find my dear. I'm mad at myself for injuring
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: an animal. You get to the point where you're like,
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: I'm not gonna let that happen anymore. And it's sometimes
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: it takes some bad experiences to get you that point.
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  Speaker 1: So you know, I try to make sure that every
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: shot I take is as ethical as I possibly in
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: me more than anything, you just want to eliminate that
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: tough track job and that, you know, not being able
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: to find that animal. It's a miserable feeling, you know,
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: and you you feel bad for the animal, you feel
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: bad for yourself, your cameraman, whoever's with you. It's like,
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: don't let it happen. So therefore you you get into
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: a mental state where you you just you know, you
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: disallow that to even happen, and you just don't take
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: bad shots basically, And if you can discipline yourself to that,
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: to that level, you'll end up being a lot happier
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: on more blood trails. But that's one of the reasons
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: we did Dear Cash track though too. It it's going
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: to happen, right if you bow hunt long enough, because
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: you can't control what the deer is gonna do. You
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: can control what you're doing. But there's two two sides
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: to every kill. When it comes to whitetailed deer ones
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: you the others. The deer you can't anticipate if they're
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: gonna jump. You can't anticipate what they're gonna do when
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: that bow goes off, and what they do and how
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: they react varies at different distances. So you know, there's
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: a lot of variables there with weather, and you know,
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: the mood of the animal, the time of the year,
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: you know all that good stuff. So trying to run
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: up through those in your mind at the moment will
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: help you make better choices more often. One of those
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: things that's easier said than done sometimes though, right in
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: those uh, the craziness of those last couple of seconds, there's,
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: like you said, so many variables. Um, before I start
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: bugging you with ten thou questions, let's just get what
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: this new tool is you guys are putting out there
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: out there, because I'm really interested. I've heard a few
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: high level things, but I don't really know the details yet. Um.
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: You mentioned deer Cast Track what what's that? Deer Cash
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  Speaker 1: track is the newest feature within deer Cast that much
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: like the algorithm last year that we put out there
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: under deer Cast, which helped predict deer movement, which you
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: and I had done some podcasts about that, and um
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: we were trying to you know, um, trying to communicate
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: what Terry and I kind of felt in terms of
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: our theories on when deer move and why they move,
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  Speaker 1: and we had some really good podcast about that, you
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: and I have and algorithm kind of interpreted interpreted that
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: for people and showed them what the deer or how
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: well they might be moving in their area. So we
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: this year we came out with deer Cast Tracks. So
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: we wanted to handle everything up to the moment of truth,
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: like help them become better at anticipating the optimal days
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: to be in the field and then with that all
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: of our different tactics within thirteen or within the app
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: and all that good stuff and then Okay, you're in
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: the right place, You're at there at the right time
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: because of deer Cast, you make the shot. Now what
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: And to me, tracking, in the art of tracking and
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: helping people find deer is probably. Um. I don't want
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: to say it's a lost art farm, but it's one
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: that doesn't get covered very often. Like you see some
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: of the basic stuff at ten thousand feet. You know,
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: you know you hit him in the double you know,
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: you double along on them, go find them. And well
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: through the years, I've double along a bunch of deer
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: that we're still alive at the one R mark of
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: the three R mark. And I still, you know, digging
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: down on this, going why why did I hit right here?
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: And the deer still alive hours later? Right? So you know,
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: if you track enough deer, a variety of different things
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: are gonna happen. And and I noticed through the season
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: more and more and more I used to always get
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: calls about what the de you're gonna do with? I
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: got a weather front coming, do you think they're gonna move?
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: What phase are we in? Blah blah blah, And all
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: those calls went away throughout the season for me in
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: terms of, you know, deer movement prediction when we came
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: out with Deer Cast, because it was all in the app. Okay,
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: so self preservation, you know, level B is now I
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: go on about three or four track jobs a night,
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: not in person, but over my phone. You know, guys
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: from the team or guys across the industry. Hey, I
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: hit the deer here at holland you wait, what would
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: you do? Blah blah blah, And I'm like, man, wouldn't
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: it be cool if our app took everyone through every
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: single possible scenario who could have shooting a deer with
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: a bow or a gun? And that's what we did
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: with Deer Cash Track. And it's it's fairly simple. You
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: have a deer, you can flip it left or right.
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: You can do it with the hide on or hide off,
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: so you can you can go into a two D
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: model which exposes vitals, or you can just do it
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: as you saw the deer standing there, and you can
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: pick your point of impact. From the point of impact,
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: the app opens up and does the rest for you.
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: So say you hit uh mid body right in front
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: of the backham terrible shot, Okay, but it happens. Sometimes
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: you hit us sleeve, you hit a branch, arrow goes awry,
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: or you hit them hit them back there with a gun.
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: You pick that point of impact with our little cursor
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: and then the app our program will will unfold anywhere
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: from two to six or seven hits from our video
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: library that shows shots in that area. Okay, then you
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: can choose any shot you wish. Go you know what,
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: that's the body angle or that's the one that most
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: closely matches what I just did. You choose it. It
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: then shows you a chart of you know, what broad
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: head was used or what weapon was used on the
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: video hit. It'll tell you how long we waited, what
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: happened on the blood trail, what the blood trail look like,
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: what the estimated time of death was for that animal,
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: how far that animal traveled. And then you go into
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: tracker John Anglican, Bobby culvertson myself and Terry breaking down
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: that hit, telling you exactly what you may have hit, uh,
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: how long you should wait, what type of blood sign
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: you should look for. And then we will also address well,
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: if you hit the same point of impact in the
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: animal was quartering away, you might have also increased and
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: picked up these organs within the deer, or if he
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: was quartering two, you might have hit this. So we
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: literally take you from broadside quartering two, quartering away, and
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: we address every possible scenario. You can watch all of
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: those videos. If that doesn't exactly you know, give you
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: the information you think you need, you go to the
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: next hit, the next hit, the next hit. So this
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: series by October one will probably have a hundred different
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: hits in it when it goes to as at release
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: date right now, there's probably six to seventy and we
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: will probably end up in the hundred, and we're going
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: to continue adding to the series, so there will be
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: real life, real world experiences at your fingertips. And we
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: we then go into within the descriptions, whether it's John, Bobby,
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: myself or Terry three D modeling, two D modeling, and
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: tell you exactly what you probably hit with that path,
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: whether it be your gun or your bow, and it
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: absolutely takes you from having no clue on how to wait,
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: or what to expect or how far that deer should
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: should go to absolutely giving you every bit of information
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: you could possibly ask for to help you recover your animal,
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: and even even the hits mark. One of the ones
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: that I see guys make most often where they end
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: up tracking too soon and losing their deer is that
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: space behind the heart. If you're say, if you're right
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: behind the leg, your deer might run seventy yards because
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: you clipped the a Arctic arch coming out of the
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: heart and he's dead. Right. If you're back from that
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: just a little bit, you're in the liver, and then
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: another couple inches behind that, you're into the stomach, like
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: totally within five ribs you're from go get him to
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: a thirty hour weight okay, And somewhere in between there's liver,
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: which is you know, ten twelve depending on broadhead size.
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: All of this stuff is covered within Deer Cash Track.
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: You just simply picked point of entry and the app
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: opens up into a whole world that you've just never
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: seen before. It's literally the coolest thing we've ever done
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: at Drury Outdoors. Yeah you guys, uh you aren't. You
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: continue to do yourselves. I'm I'm impressed and I'm excited
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: because I do think you you're absolutely right. There's usually
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: two kinds of conversations that I'm on when it comes
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: like all my different hunting group text message and stuff
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: like that. There's the what do you think they're gonna
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: do tonight? And then it's the if you get a hit?
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: Then all of a sudden, the text message comes through,
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: the phone calls come through. Just like you said, Hey,
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: here's the shot. What do you think? And then it
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: sends you a screenshot of the video, or they talk
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: you through it, or they'll send you a picture of
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: a deer and they'll try to mark where the impact was,
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: and like that's that's such a thing that happens every
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: night during the hunting season. There are groups of buddies
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: debating and questioning and wondering and worrying about this very topic.
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: Um see, you definitely identified a big need. Um, you
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: nailed it. It's one that's never addressed. Have you seen
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: it addressed very thoroughly? I mean I've seen stories about it.
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: Like I said, it's ten thousand feet. You kind of
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: hit a few things, but never into the detail that
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: we're about to take. People like Tracker John's you know,
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: Tracker John Anglican has trained for tracking his entire life.
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: He has the best bloodhounds I've ever seen, so he
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: gets called in on the really crappy hits, so he
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: sees the worst of the worst. He's been over two
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: thousand hits in his life. Bobby Culbertson is the head
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: guide at Tara Wildlife in Mississippi. He has been for
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: twenty one years, so he's been on over two thousand
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: track jobs and I collectively of probably approaching a thousand
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: or more. So if you take the tracking experience of
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: five thousand track jobs and rolling into one app, that's
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: who's going with you along your track job. So I
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: think this fall you're gonna be seeing people when they
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: make their hit. They're gonna go into deercast, pick their
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: pick their point of impact and then start passing you
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: on and go, hey, watch this video. Listen to what
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: tracker John said at this at this time. Do you
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: agree with that or do you not? You know, like
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: it's so in depth and it's gonna make people so
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: much smarter. And then I think the long term effect
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: will be it's gonna make people think better, think more,
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: make better shots, you know, making sure they don't hit
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: in this area and that hit hit in this area
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: versus that area. It's, uh, it'll make you smarter if
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: you take the time to really play with it and
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: and go through it and watch some of the results.
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: You know, put the cursor on some deer and go,
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: holy cow it and no I needed a wait thirty
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: hours in that area. And here's why. Know, um, we
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: also go through like sixteen or seventeen, really advanced courses
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: in tracking in general. You know what the blood on
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: the arrow means, what what a bed means, what blood
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: in the bed means, you know the trails between the beds.
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: Uh that. You know weather's effect on tracking. Dear Everything
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: you could possibly imagine is also in this series. It's
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: it's right next to all of the different hits. You
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: slide over and you pick advanced tracking tips, you watch
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: all those pieces, You're like, oh my god, these guys
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: are unbelievable. Bobby and Bobby and John are like no
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: one else on this earth that I know of. And
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: for years, when I've had a bad hit, you know,
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: if John was available, we've used him. But I always
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: send the video to Bobby culvertson and they are always
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: on correct. That's the other thing I've noticed through the years,
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: like their assessment of what I just did or whoever
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: it is on the team, they are always spot on.
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: And I was like, man, wouldn't this be cool to
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: put this information at everybody's fingertips. So that's why we
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: did Dear cast track. It's it's gonna find It's gonna
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: help people find a lot of deer and it's gonna
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: help people stop bumping deer, because that's a big deal, right.
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: They coagulate and they caught up so quickly. If you
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: bump them out of that initial bed, your odds just
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: go way down of ever finding that dear, Whereas if
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: you wait the appropriate amount of time, he's gonna be
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: dead in his first bed or second or third, which
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: is gonna be close to the first one. Yeah, and
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: it sounds um, it sounds like something that a lot
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: of people will benefit from. Um, And I'm going to
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: benefit from it. But I am too anty to wait
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: to look at the app to get some of this information,
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: So I'm gonna have to have you tell me about
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: some of this stuff right now. But the first thing
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: I want to know is do you have a feature
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: on the app that helps a guy with some red
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: green color blindness? Because because I need that isn't at
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: the truth, dude, I'm the same way. I don't, especially
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: at night. And um, I am very blessed in the
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: fact that Wade and Aller both see blood incredibly well.
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: So I literally, you know, I let them out front
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: and I'm like, I'll stand at last blood guys, you
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: go ahead, because their eyes it just speeds up the
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: process because they can see so much better than me.
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: But I'm in the same shape. I don't see blood
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: very well at all. Yeah, it's frustrating. I can see it,
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: but it takes me so much longer to pick it
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: up versus people that don't have that. It just stands
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: out to them so much more in the dark conditions,
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: especially like you said, so it sounds like, right enough
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: light you cannot find one. I mean, it's righter. They
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: are the better. So I think I need a good
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: cameraman or a daughter who can help me. That's my
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: next step. Then, or a dog if it's legal. And
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: we've learned so much by following Tracker John and uh
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: Jesse and Janey and Holly and Haley. I mean his
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: dogs that he's had through the years have been just incredible.
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: But you've gotta make sure it's legal in your area. Yeah, okay,
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: so let's let's talk about all that. But I want
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: to rewind a little bit because I do want to
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: pick your brain about the before the shot stuff because,
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: like I said out, I feel like, at least from
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: the outside looking in, it seems like you've got it
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: together better than a lot of people. Um, And and
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: no knock on Terry, but it seems like you might
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: have a better a little bit than he does. Sometimes
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: I see him get a little shook up. Um. But
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: here's the secret. I'm in the studio more than Terry,
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: So I just cut out all my mistakes. There you go.
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: But but tell me this, um, was the younger version
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: of Marjorie like that, like thirty forty years ago when
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: you were twenty or whatever. Did you always have it
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: like this or did you have some struggles early on too? What?
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: And you know, I've had struggles throughout the years. I mean,
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: I always get shook up. And it's the same struggle
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: whether it's a door or a buck, you know, and
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: you just you know, you shoot and that arrow doesn't
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: end up where you um thought it was going to,
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: and you go, what in the heck just happened? And
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: I think that when you had adrenaline to any situation,
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: you're just asking for bad decision making, right. You know,
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: It's like if you could sit there, if if the
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: deer was foam, right, you can plug the twelve ring
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: every single shot at at thirty yards or forty or
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: fifty whatever you're shooting at you know, but when it's
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: when it's real life and they're coming in and that
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: body posture is changing and moving and you know, and
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: God help you if it's the rut and he's coming
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: in fast and you gotta think fast, and it just
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: accelerates everything. So adrillin just screws everything up. So I
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: think more often than not, when someone makes a mistake,
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: it's because they let adrenaline get get the most of them,
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: and it Uh, it really comes down to the success
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: in the heat of the moment, which is what you're
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: talking about, comes down to I think your ability to
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: handle emotion at the a when it's at its peak.
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: You know, when you're adrenaline's topped out and you can't
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: practice adrenaline. I say it all the time. You can't
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: do it, you know. I've read articles and heard guys say, well,
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: go run the hundred yard dash six times and then
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: shoot shoot there out. It's still not the same, It's
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: not the same feeling in your body. The only way
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: you can do that is to put yourself in that
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: situation more often and think your way through it. And
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: I think the biggest mistake hunters probably make is not
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: shooting enough does frankly or not shooting enough game in general. Um,
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: I think the more times you put yourself in that situation,
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: the better you become through time, because you have to
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: learn by your mistakes, you know, And that's just sad
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: to say, but it's the truth. The more you shoot,
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: the more does you kill, the more bucks you kill,
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: for that matter, the more rabbits you kill, the more
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: squirrels you kill, the turkeys, whatever it is, then you
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: just get better every time it comes around again. So
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: it's it's all about slowing the game down. Jim Tony
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: talks about it all the time. And you look at
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: you look at baseball, and you look at a guy
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: like Jim you want pressure, or any baseball player for
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: that matter. Put him in a stadium of forty or
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: fifty screaming fans in the playoffs and then throw up, know,
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: a heater on the outside corner high at nine three?
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: How in the hell do they connect and take it
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: out of the park? Right? I mean, because you could
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: you imagine the adrenaline in that moment time. So he
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: always talks and has to us for years about slow
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: that game down, ignore every other thing and focus. Your
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: focus has to be so intense in that moment, and
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: I don't want to say that that the emotion that
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: I feel is is it's adrenaline. But I almost channel
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: it into like a like a focus of I don't
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: want to say anger, but a focus of determination to
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: make this happen. Do not screw this up. So channel
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: the adrenaline into a positive place in your body as
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: opposed to letting it become a negative and making bad
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: choices like use it, make it, make it, make it,
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: or let it make you determine to the point that
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: you're not going to screw this up, you know, and
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: and for us the video cameras wrong, and so it's
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: like you don't want to make a bad shot. It
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: still happens, but you don't want to. So you you
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: have to channel that adrenaline into your brain and go
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: all right, slow down, dummy, Stop, think about something else.
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: Think about the Bibles, think about where this arrow is
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: going to exit, Think about anything you can to give
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: yourself the assistance you need to make a good shot.
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: If you can do that, you're gonna put yourself through
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: the lungs and through the through the boiler room or often.
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: If you can't do that, you're gonna go on a
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: lot of backtrack jobs and you're gonna need dear cat
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: track more often. So so what is going on in
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: your brain in Like, let's say you see a buck
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: coming into range. You you okay, this is a shooter buck,
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: you grab your bow um those things you just mentioned.
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: Is that the self talk? Like are you saying, don't
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: be stupid, don't do this, or or what what are
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: you talking to yourself? Like? What does those next ten
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: seconds look like for you? Every single second of the
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: moment of truth is me telling myself? Do not jack
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: this up here or here she is, whatever the target is,
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: do not make a bad shot, Do not draw it
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: too soon, do not release too quickly, make sure of
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: the body posture, Like I have a checklist in my
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: mind where I'm I'm thinking about not only where they're at,
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: but I'm thinking where they're going, because sooner or later
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: or very quickly where they where they're going is where
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: they went. And you're already behind the game. So I'm
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: I'm in terms of thinking ahead a little bit, and
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: I want to make sure I don't draw too soon.
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: I want to make sure I don't make any noise
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: to alert the deer to my presence, and I go
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: through that mental checklist, and then when the moment of
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: truth comes, I'm aiming I'm stopping the deer if need be,
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: and I'm I'm thinking exit. I always think where this
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: arrow is gonna exit. I never think of entry, and
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: I think thinking of exit kind of helps me a
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: little bit, you know. I'm thinking about I want to
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: hit there so that it ends up right behind that
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: leg or at the base of that tree. That's where
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: I'm putting it. I'm gonna put it right at the
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: base of that tree, or I'm gonna put it right
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: at the edge of the food lot, you know, or
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna nim a little bit low to make sure
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: this deer drops into it, and then that arrow ends
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: right there. So I always think in terms of exit
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: and not enter. And I don't know if that helps me,
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: but it, you know, it doesn't hurt certainly. Yeah, that's
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: an interesting it's an interesting idea. I haven't heard anyone
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: else mentioned that before, but it makes I mean, it's
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: something I think about, but it's not something that I'm
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: putting first and foremost. Um, that's a very good point.
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: You mentioned this checklist in body posture is one when
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: to draws one thinking about the exit. Is there anything
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: else in your mental checklist? Um worth mentioning, don't spook him,
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: don't let them know you're there. That's my number one,
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: do not spook them. It's why Taylor says, I whisper yell.
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: That's why Wade says, I whisper yell. I'm consulate, don't move,
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: don't do this, don't do that, watch that, don't put
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: your you know, put your rings finer down, you know,
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: put in your pocket, get ready, whatever it is. You know,
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: I'm constantly whispering through the through the process to make
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: sure that I don't alert that animal to me because
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: when they when they figure out you're there, your chances
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: just went way down that you're about to kill that deer.
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: I mean way down. It might cut them in half
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: or cut them by because they will once they figure
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: out you're there, it's almost over every time. Yes, So
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: let's talk about that when you get or well, let's
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: talk about body post or what you can tell by
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: that deer and how that changes your shot at all,
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: because right there's a situation where the deer is no
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: idea you're there. I imagine you would aim in shooting
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: a certain way, and then there's a situation where the
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: deer is aware of something going on. How does your
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: shot or your behavior differ between those two at all?
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: If if they're calm and there within my effective range
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: and my effective range, I like them within thirty. You know,
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: when you get outside of thirty, bad things start to happen.
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: And I've shot deer outside of that. But that depends
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: on weather and conditions and all that. But let's take
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: a calm evening, because so often when deer moving it's
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: it's calm and not a ton of wind blowing. Okay,
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: so calm evening or calm morning. So you first have
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: to say, okay, they're gonna hear my bow go off
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: if your bow hunting, So I side in low anyway,
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: like my twenty yard pin hits about two and a
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: half inches low, thirty on three inches low, forty on
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: four inches low. So I will aim on because instinctively
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: I always aim on. I aim to exit, and then
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: I just let the arrow drop on its own. And
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: it almost never fails that they don't go up. They're
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: always going down, and oftentimes they still go down to
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: damn far and I'm still too hot right because I've
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: misjudged the ardage, or they've dropped me more than I
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: anticipated there or whatever. So I always side in low.
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: And then if if the if the animals calm in
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: the and the and the evening is calm and there's
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: no wind moving, then I'm judging distance all right. If
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: they're within the teens, If they're seventeen eighteen and under,
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: I'll aim on and feel like I'm going to get
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: the job done. Once you get to twenty two and
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: there's a real there's a real hole they're from, like
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: twenty two to twenty eight or thirty, that distance where
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: they hear that sound crispally and cleanly and they react immediately,
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: like man can endear do a lot in that distance
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: because they hear the bow immediately, and I mean they'll
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: drop a damn foot on you, you know. So I
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: anticipate distance versus how much air is moving. If it's
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: calm and they're at I'm worried at that distance because
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: they're gonna hear it and they're probably gonna drop and
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: you know, and then bad things start to happen. So
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: I aim even a little bit lower. I often cite
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: my bow in low and then also aim at harder
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: top of heart or exit through the heart, I should say,
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: and uh, that has helped me a great deal through
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: the years to put it in through the right place
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: because they're gonna drop. If it's windy, you can throw
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: out all that out the window because generally they won't
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: hear you, and uh, it really helps you put the
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: arrow where you need to. I love twelve fifty mile
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: an hour with leaves rattling. The more noise you get,
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: the better, uh, because they don't hear that bow go off.
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: So always take into consideration what you're dealing with. From
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: an environmental standpoint. Highway noise will help you. Um, wind
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: noise will help you. Rain noise will help you. Other
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: deer's commotion will help you. If if the deer, if
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: your target deer is attentive to them, that will help.
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: But the moment their eyes get wide and they start
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: looking at you and you feel like you're found, then
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: I get really really nervous about taking that shot, And
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: then I'm I'm probably gonna do the same thing that
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: I'm doing at that seven yard distance, and I'm I'm
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: even really really low on that deer. I mean, you
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: just have to anticipate that drop or you're going to
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: hit him high shoulder or go over the back. So
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: what about scenario where it's one of these longer range
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: situations that I know you typically don't find yourself in,
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: but I think I've seen some where your forty yards
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: or maybe out there past you a little bit, especially
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: the wind. Yeah. So if it is like a good
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: set up, though, and you're gonna do that type of shot,
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: how much lower do you have to shoot on a
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: forty forty five yard shot if you're assuming that, I
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: mean twelve inches max. Fifteen sixteen seven inches, they could drop.
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: I never aim off the deer because it's just counterintuitive
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: to do. So the lowest that I will aim is
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: to take it through center of heart. That's about as
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: low as i'll possibly aim, because just as soon as
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: you aim off a deer, there's gonna be one stand
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: there and take it right. Um. So I'm always on deer,
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: but I will aim center of heart, which is quite
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: low in a deer's anatomy, So you're just literally two
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: or three inches off the bottom of their chest at
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: that distance. Um, and it it generally works out pretty good. Yeah,
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: you know what about stopping dear? So I know there's
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: always this debate between would you want to stop a
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: deer because you want a standing still shot, but you
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: then risk alerting dear to your presence and then him
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: possibly drop him more. Or do you, let's say it's
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: a very slowly meandering buck, do you prefer the slowly
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: slow meander that doesn't know you're there at all? You
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: know if you if you've watched my shots through the ears,
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: they are always preceded by it. Man, I want that
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: dear head still, Dick, I'm when I'm aiming at him,
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: unless he's close. Okay, if he's close and meandering real slow,
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: I'll go and shoot, all right. But if he's out
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: there twenty five and by close I mean fifteen and
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: in if he's out there at you know, thirty, whatever,
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: I want that sucker dead still. I mean, they're they're
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: wirey little creatures anyway, And and and the reason I
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: want him did still is because I want body posture
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: to stop in the position that I wanted in. Because
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: their difference between quartering two and quartering away as a
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: head turn sometimes you know, right, they can open that
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: shoulder up or close it down really quickly. If they're
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: browsing over here to their left, their right sides open.
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: If they suddenly don't even take a step and browse
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: over here to the right, it closes. It might take
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: three rips from me with that front shoulder, if you
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: know what I mean, Like it closes it back up.
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: So I put him in a dead stop so I
• 32:52
  Speaker 1: know the body posture. I read it quickly and go okay,
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: there's my seam, and I take it, you know, so
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: I always stop him. It's just me, Um, I don't
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: I don't like shooting it moving dear. Bad things happen
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: when you shoot a moving dear in my in my
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: humble opinion. Yeah, let's rewind a little bit to another
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: thing you mentioned. Um, you talked about this checklist, and
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: you mentioned when to draw, and that's one of those
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: things that almost never gets talked about. But it seems
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: like most new hunters never think about that. It seems
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: to be it takes some time and some experience to
• 33:24
  Speaker 1: realize that's actually really key decision. Can you walk me
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: through some of the things you're thinking about when you're
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: deciding when to draw? And then I'll throw apart b
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: on that. What about the scenario when the dear spots
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: you and you haven't drawn yet, like you're on him,
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: you're about to draw back, and then he spots you.
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: Do you ever do the I know he's looking at me,
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: I'm still gonna draw back and try to get the shot,
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: or do you wait? So that's two parter. You're making
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: my hard pound because that's just just the worst situation,
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: right when your targets coming and then he looks up
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: at you or looks at you. I hate that it happens.
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: I always wait am out. I don't draw with him
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: looking at me ever, you know, unless he's broadside and
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: I feel like I can kill him, you know, and
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: I feel like I've got decent cover, then I'll draw
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: a real slow and shoot. But to your first question,
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: when do you draw for me? I used to draw
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: to them soon and I'd get hung out to dry
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: right there there, browsers, they'll stop and they'll nibble on
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: a limb, and they'll do this. You know, if you
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: draw it the deer at fort yards coming, you're just
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: asking for trouble to where you have to let down.
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: The more I hunt, the longer I wait to draw.
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: I'm I'm almost to the point where I don't draw
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: until the deer is well within bow range and he's
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: he's it's time to kill him. So I'm drawing later
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: than I am sooner. But again you have to think
• 34:42
  Speaker 1: about not where he's at, but where he's going. So
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: is there a tree where his head's about to pass behind?
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: Is he you know? Does he stop and turn around
• 34:50
  Speaker 1: and look for you know, you know a noise you
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: just heard? Is it windy out? Is it calm out?
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: All of those things have to play into your decision.
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: If it's calm, that's the tough one man, because they're
• 35:02
  Speaker 1: gonna hear that. They're gonna hear your clothes, they're gonna
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: hear movement in your tree or in the blind, and
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: you just better be ready. If you're gonna draw on
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: a calm night, he better already be within bow range
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: and presumably at a decent body posture. That's what I'm
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: drawing on him. Uh. If it's windy and you've got
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: decent noise, whether that be from a highway or wind
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: or whatever, you can draw a little sooner and get
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: it full draw and let him come on in. So
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: you have to use some common sense about Okay, is
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: this they're gonna hear a seemi draw or is he not?
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: If your answer to that is at all yes, he might,
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: then I'm waiting until he's already within bow range, so
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: that if he stops he and catches you, at least
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: you're at full draw and you can get down on
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: him and hopefully he's still in a good body posture
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: to where you can shoot him. So I have a
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: tendency to wait longer than draw sooner. Now, if it's windy,
• 35:54
  Speaker 1: I'll try to get the drop bought him get drawn,
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: and you know, if he's coming hard, I'm like, oh,
• 35:58
  Speaker 1: that dear is gonna come on through. There's nothing gonna
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: stop him. I'll draw a little sooner. In that way
• 36:02
  Speaker 1: I'm ready for And boy, when you're at full drawing
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: one walks within range, there's no better feeling because you're
• 36:06
  Speaker 1: already It's like holding the cross bow at that time. Right.
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: But if if he's coming slow, I wait and wait
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: and wait and wait until it's time. Because a slow
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: moving deer oftentimes stays slow moving, and a fast moving
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: deer oftentimes stays, you know, quickly moving. So you got
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: to anticipate all that in a moment of truth and
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: make good judgment calls based on their demeanor, their speed,
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: and the overall environmental conditions. Yeah, so let's talk archery
• 36:32
  Speaker 1: a little bit. So you get to full draw, you're
• 36:35
  Speaker 1: at that moment, what do you like? What's here? Do
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: you have a like an archery shot process, mantra or
• 36:43
  Speaker 1: things that you're looking at, like do you check your grip,
• 36:46
  Speaker 1: check your level? Do you anything like that going through
• 36:48
  Speaker 1: your mind at that moment? Or is it just draw
• 36:50
  Speaker 1: pinshoot um. No. I I go through a little bit
• 36:53
  Speaker 1: of a mental checklist there too, because when I've made
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: bad shots in the in the past, it's because I
• 36:58
  Speaker 1: gripped my bow too much. I think the adrenaline just
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: you know, you just want to, you know, rip a
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: hole through your handle. In reality, you've got to loosen
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: that grip. So that's the that's the mental checklist that
• 37:08
  Speaker 1: I have to go through. Everything else is muscle memory
• 37:11
  Speaker 1: because I shoot a great deal, so everything else comes
• 37:14
  Speaker 1: as second play. Bend at the hip is the other one.
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: Like if you're gonna make a bad choice, it's or
• 37:18
  Speaker 1: a bad shot. Oftentimes you didn't bend correctly. Those are
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: the two things that I see are three I should say,
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: it's shooting with clothing you're not used to, and your
• 37:27
  Speaker 1: anchor point changes too, it's not bending at the hip.
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: Are three inch grip in your bow too hard? Because
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: adrenaline took over in the moment of truth. So I
• 37:35
  Speaker 1: go through those three things. Make sure, Okay, my anchor
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: points right, I am bent correctly, my back is in
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: the correct position, and my grip is fantastic. Then it's
• 37:44
  Speaker 1: it's pin and shoot. So I I do checklist a
• 37:48
  Speaker 1: few things to make sure that they're all right, because
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: otherwise you're gonna make a bad shot. Excuse bad shot.
• 37:53
  Speaker 1: It's it's easy. One of the things I've struggled with
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: over the years is just rushing the shots. I've kind
• 37:59
  Speaker 1: of come to cull it target panic. It's more so
• 38:01
  Speaker 1: like as soon as that pin hits sometimes like the
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: arrows flying once the pins where I wanted before I
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: get to like take a couple of the breaths and
• 38:09
  Speaker 1: ease into it. So I've been working on a lot
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: of things over the last couple of years to try
• 38:12
  Speaker 1: to regain control that process. But like you said, there's
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: it's easy for that to get away from you and
• 38:19
  Speaker 1: to forget a few of those things. If um, if
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: you're not in control, I guess I think you make
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: yourself think though like it helps you be in control.
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: If that makes sense. You know, it's it's the mindless.
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: It's the without thought process shots that you regret. Right,
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: do you want to have a lifetime and regret or
• 38:36
  Speaker 1: a season of regret or do you want to go
• 38:38
  Speaker 1: you know what, I did everything I could to kill
• 38:40
  Speaker 1: that deer, and I just missed because I missed judge
• 38:42
  Speaker 1: orders or whatever. So make yourself check those boxes, you know,
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: grip back, hips, uh, anchor point. Make yourself think, think
• 38:51
  Speaker 1: through those things, and then you'll make a better shot
• 38:54
  Speaker 1: because you did slow the game down. That right there
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: is slowing the game down, you know, and you never
• 38:59
  Speaker 1: if you examine our videos and you watch when from
• 39:02
  Speaker 1: Matt to shot going off is literally a half a second.
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: The deer still planting its front foot, that's a shot
• 39:08
  Speaker 1: that was taken too soon. The ones that are executed
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: the best through time are the ones where the person
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: stops the deer, or after the deer stops and you know,
• 39:16
  Speaker 1: the guy's already at full draw and there is aim happening.
• 39:20
  Speaker 1: You can tell the checklist is being checked. A great
• 39:23
  Speaker 1: example of that is Greg Lessinger this year. Greg's one
• 39:26
  Speaker 1: of the best shots that I know of in terms
• 39:28
  Speaker 1: of just a guy that goes out hunting. He doesn't
• 39:31
  Speaker 1: do tournaments any of that stuff. But you wouldn't want
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: to shoot him for a Coca cola in your backyard.
• 39:35
  Speaker 1: I mean, the dude can flat handle a bow, all right.
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: Well watch him last year on that two thirty nine
• 39:40
  Speaker 1: that he killed in Iowa. From the moment he stops
• 39:43
  Speaker 1: until that shot goes off, it's like five or six seconds. Man,
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: he's going through that checklist. He went through it two
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: or three times, and he makes a perfect shot. So
• 39:51
  Speaker 1: force yourself to do it because the deer is not
• 39:53
  Speaker 1: going anywhere more often than not. I mean, you gotta
• 39:56
  Speaker 1: judge that a little bit. But chances are it's not
• 39:58
  Speaker 1: going anywhere because they're just they're they're oftentimes when they
• 40:01
  Speaker 1: haven't win. Did you if you've ever noticed deer generally
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: quite patient with their surroundings, Like they'll sit there and
• 40:06
  Speaker 1: they'll examine stuff for I mean, they're like they have
• 40:09
  Speaker 1: the patience of a cat. They'll stand there and stare
• 40:11
  Speaker 1: at stuff for minutes on end and not move so
• 40:14
  Speaker 1: unless they're already about to run. If you've got if
• 40:17
  Speaker 1: you've got an at East deer on your hands, or
• 40:19
  Speaker 1: one that still hasn't found you, chances are he's not
• 40:22
  Speaker 1: going anywhere because they generally don't flee until they have
• 40:25
  Speaker 1: to flee. Yeah, does any of this stuff for you
• 40:28
  Speaker 1: differ when it comes to gun hunting? Does your mental
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: checklist or any of these things. Obviously we're not gonna
• 40:34
  Speaker 1: be talking about a few of the specifics, but what
• 40:36
  Speaker 1: does your process look like? I guess when you're out
• 40:38
  Speaker 1: there with the shotgun or the rightful or the muzzle,
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: I think it's more important because you're dealing with distance
• 40:43
  Speaker 1: right more often than not. If they're close, it's one thing,
• 40:45
  Speaker 1: But if you're dealing with a shot at two hundred
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: five man, small mistakes in the back end make big
• 40:52
  Speaker 1: mistakes down range. I missed a deer last year. I
• 40:54
  Speaker 1: should have never missed the last day, last last hour,
• 40:58
  Speaker 1: last twenty minutes of rifles a giant at one five.
• 41:02
  Speaker 1: Didn't even know who the deer was. Two five yard
• 41:05
  Speaker 1: shot and I shot right over the sucker. And I
• 41:07
  Speaker 1: still to this day don't know how I did that,
• 41:10
  Speaker 1: Like I just I think I got a little rushed
• 41:12
  Speaker 1: because we had already started packing things up, and Wade
• 41:15
  Speaker 1: and I were like, well, end a rifle season, let's
• 41:17
  Speaker 1: get out of here and go whatever, have a beer
• 41:19
  Speaker 1: or whatever. And all of a sudden, up over the hill,
• 41:22
  Speaker 1: here comes this giant and I'm like, what the heck
• 41:24
  Speaker 1: is that. Wade's like, oh, definitely definite shooter. And he's
• 41:28
  Speaker 1: coming across the hill pretty quick, not very long. He's
• 41:30
  Speaker 1: gonna be out of my side side window. And I
• 41:33
  Speaker 1: rushed through all that stuff, didn't do any of my
• 41:35
  Speaker 1: checklist stuff, got the gun out the window, put it
• 41:37
  Speaker 1: on him, and I missed the deer. Gun out of
• 41:39
  Speaker 1: the window of the blind and I missed the deer,
• 41:41
  Speaker 1: And um, that one still haunts me, makes me mad. Actually,
• 41:45
  Speaker 1: you know, taking a little more time, I would have
• 41:47
  Speaker 1: killed that deer because it's a shot, you know, I mean,
• 41:50
  Speaker 1: you ought to be shooting a popcan top right, you know.
• 41:53
  Speaker 1: But um, I missed him, And that was just I
• 41:55
  Speaker 1: rushed it, got excited, rushed it. Yeah, it happens. What
• 42:00
  Speaker 1: so that's your question. It is just as important, if
• 42:01
  Speaker 1: not more, you know, you add distance to it and
• 42:04
  Speaker 1: you're gonna goof it up. Also, make sure your guns on.
• 42:06
  Speaker 1: That's the biggest mistake people make, you know, it is
• 42:09
  Speaker 1: assuming that scope still on from the previous year. It's
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: a that's a bad assumption because they do float. Yeah,
• 42:14
  Speaker 1: it's easy to get lazy with that. I have been
• 42:16
  Speaker 1: guilty of that in past years. For sure, you should
• 42:19
  Speaker 1: practice with a gun almost as much as you do
• 42:21
  Speaker 1: with a bow. The good shooters do, the bad ones don't.
• 42:24
  Speaker 1: If you practice, practice makes perfect and everything you do
• 42:27
  Speaker 1: when it comes to taking the life of an animal,
• 42:30
  Speaker 1: you owe it to that animal and get your butt
• 42:32
  Speaker 1: on the range. You can't make an assumption. And I
• 42:34
  Speaker 1: think bow hunters are kind of like guilty of this.
• 42:36
  Speaker 1: It's like, oh, it's a gun, just go out and
• 42:38
  Speaker 1: kill one. Well, it's not necessarily the case. Take the time,
• 42:41
  Speaker 1: whether it's a muzzleloader, shotgun, rifle, take the time on
• 42:44
  Speaker 1: the range, just like you do with your bow, and
• 42:46
  Speaker 1: you'll be a lot happier in the end. Yeah, speaking
• 42:48
  Speaker 1: of practicing situations like that, um and and and I'm
• 42:52
  Speaker 1: guilty of what you just said. But another thing that
• 42:56
  Speaker 1: I've done over the years that has helped me. I'm
• 42:59
  Speaker 1: curious if you've ever done anything like this is I
• 43:02
  Speaker 1: try to practice for potential specific situations once I get
• 43:06
  Speaker 1: in the tree or in the blind. So let's say
• 43:08
  Speaker 1: I climb up into the tree, I get settled, and
• 43:11
  Speaker 1: I've still got like three or four hours before primetime.
• 43:14
  Speaker 1: When I had that little bit of free time early on,
• 43:16
  Speaker 1: I will actually grab my bow and I will look
• 43:19
  Speaker 1: at a potential spot I think there's gonna be a buck,
• 43:21
  Speaker 1: and then I will draw back and imagine a buck
• 43:23
  Speaker 1: walking to that lane and actually go through almost the
• 43:26
  Speaker 1: entire process. And I try to do that every spot
• 43:28
  Speaker 1: I think there might be a shot, um, just like
• 43:30
  Speaker 1: mentally walking myself through that exact scenario, like really physically
• 43:35
  Speaker 1: think looking at like thinking, okay, there's a buck, he's
• 43:37
  Speaker 1: an eight point or it's it's this buck I've been chaseding.
• 43:40
  Speaker 1: Here he comes. And I try to somehow practice that scenario.
• 43:44
  Speaker 1: And I think that helps me a little bit, that
• 43:46
  Speaker 1: kind of visualization technique. Do you ever do anything like
• 43:49
  Speaker 1: that or do you think there's merit to something along
• 43:50
  Speaker 1: those lines? Absolutely, every single day I've ever set in
• 43:54
  Speaker 1: a tree or blind exactly what you just described. And
• 43:56
  Speaker 1: I have a tendency to do it throughout the sit,
• 43:58
  Speaker 1: even if I'm not drawing, I'm still mentally going, what
• 44:01
  Speaker 1: if he walks through here? What if he walks through there?
• 44:03
  Speaker 1: What if he walks through there? And I think it's
• 44:06
  Speaker 1: one of the reasons that you know, if if you've
• 44:08
  Speaker 1: had a really good hunt and a hard hunt, you
• 44:11
  Speaker 1: go home and you're pretty mentally fatigued, right you know,
• 44:13
  Speaker 1: you go home and you're like kind of drained. Have
• 44:15
  Speaker 1: you noticed that, especially during the rut when you have
• 44:18
  Speaker 1: the sits are longer, and you're anticipating a deer coming
• 44:21
  Speaker 1: from anywhere at any time, because I don't want to
• 44:23
  Speaker 1: be caught, so I'm constantly looking. I'm trying to to
• 44:26
  Speaker 1: scan the brush find that deer before he comes out,
• 44:28
  Speaker 1: so you can get the drop on him. But I'm
• 44:30
  Speaker 1: also anticipating prior to that where he's coming. Mentally go
• 44:33
  Speaker 1: through your checklist and go, I'm gonna kill him right there,
• 44:36
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna kill him right when he goes beyond that limb.
• 44:38
  Speaker 1: And then how often have you done that? And when
• 44:40
  Speaker 1: why did I not trim that limb when I was
• 44:42
  Speaker 1: trimming the standout? You literally don't get through some of
• 44:44
  Speaker 1: these scenarios hanging the set and trimming it more often
• 44:47
  Speaker 1: than not. Uh, most spots I've been to, and even
• 44:50
  Speaker 1: I'm guilty of this, they're not trimmed appropriately to go
• 44:53
  Speaker 1: in and bow kill a deer. Like I think most
• 44:55
  Speaker 1: people don't trim enough uh to make good ethical shots
• 44:59
  Speaker 1: in my opinion. Um so that's a little bit off topic.
• 45:03
  Speaker 1: But so you tend to air on like you would
• 45:06
  Speaker 1: like big you know, big airplane landing strips and make
• 45:10
  Speaker 1: sure everything's cut because I know some people are the
• 45:12
  Speaker 1: other way and say, well, I don't want to get
• 45:14
  Speaker 1: spotted in the tree, so they just make a little
• 45:15
  Speaker 1: holes you would lean the other direction. I make holes
• 45:20
  Speaker 1: that I make shooting lanes in every possible angle, every
• 45:23
  Speaker 1: possible situation. But I leave the cover to my back.
• 45:26
  Speaker 1: I'm really a big, big back cover guy, you know.
• 45:29
  Speaker 1: So I have a lot of cover in the tree.
• 45:30
  Speaker 1: A lot of times I'll drag it up there with me,
• 45:32
  Speaker 1: you know, to give myself back cover. It's it's the
• 45:34
  Speaker 1: lack of back cover when I've gotten caught the most. Uh.
• 45:37
  Speaker 1: Front cover is not nearly as important. In fact, front
• 45:40
  Speaker 1: cover will cost you do your just because you've got
• 45:43
  Speaker 1: to shoot through it, over and around it. Whatever it is.
• 45:45
  Speaker 1: I don't I don't like a lot of front cover.
• 45:46
  Speaker 1: I like back cover. Yeah that makes sense. Uh okay,
• 45:51
  Speaker 1: So let's take it to the next step. You've slow
• 45:56
  Speaker 1: the game down, you've went through your checklist, you didn't
• 46:00
  Speaker 1: rush the shot, you put the pen just they're a
• 46:03
  Speaker 1: little bit low and in the heart region, you trigger
• 46:08
  Speaker 1: the buckets shot. What is going through your mind in
• 46:12
  Speaker 1: those immediate moments the first ten seconds after that shot.
• 46:16
  Speaker 1: Walk me through everything that's happening in your mind immediately
• 46:19
  Speaker 1: after the trigger goes off. The first thing is interpret
• 46:22
  Speaker 1: point of impact. The second thing is interpret penetration. Those
• 46:27
  Speaker 1: two things have to be first and foremost because you're
• 46:30
  Speaker 1: gonna want to know those later. The third thing is
• 46:33
  Speaker 1: am I seeing blood immediately? The fourth thing is if
• 46:37
  Speaker 1: there's an exit, is their blood coming out of that exit?
• 46:40
  Speaker 1: Where is that exit wound? If you get to see it?
• 46:41
  Speaker 1: When when they when the deer runs off. So the
• 46:43
  Speaker 1: moment I make a shot, I generally have my um
• 46:47
  Speaker 1: glass on, so my bows down and I've got glasses
• 46:51
  Speaker 1: up as quick as a cat to get them on
• 46:53
  Speaker 1: that deer and get all of those bits of information,
• 46:56
  Speaker 1: because you've got like milliseconds right to find out whether
• 47:00
  Speaker 1: good of penetration, where's the exit hole? Is their blood
• 47:02
  Speaker 1: coming out of? Either one? And then fourth, how far
• 47:06
  Speaker 1: is he going? I'm listening and watching, listen, watch, listen, watch.
• 47:10
  Speaker 1: I can't see him anymore. All right now I'm listening.
• 47:12
  Speaker 1: Do I hear him fall? And then I sit there
• 47:14
  Speaker 1: and listen for quite a while more often than not,
• 47:16
  Speaker 1: because I want to hear, because oftentimes you'll have a
• 47:20
  Speaker 1: hit where they'll go stand out there for three or
• 47:22
  Speaker 1: four minutes and then they fall over and you hear
• 47:24
  Speaker 1: that secondary crash, or you may hear that crash first
• 47:27
  Speaker 1: times through, and then you have to interpret was that
• 47:30
  Speaker 1: him falling over? Where was that him just you know,
• 47:32
  Speaker 1: busting through brush? So you've got to interpret all that
• 47:35
  Speaker 1: literally within seconds. And if if you don't, then you
• 47:38
  Speaker 1: find yourself going, what just happened? You know? And then
• 47:42
  Speaker 1: that's the worst feeling, right, I have no idea where
• 47:44
  Speaker 1: I hit him. I don't know if I contraction. I
• 47:47
  Speaker 1: didn't watch where he went to Landmark. You gotta watch
• 47:49
  Speaker 1: as far as you can so you can landmark. They'll
• 47:51
  Speaker 1: you know, the last little thing, and I'll often right away,
• 47:54
  Speaker 1: I'll take my phone up and I'll point at the
• 47:57
  Speaker 1: last place I saw that, dear, and I snap a picture,
• 48:00
  Speaker 1: so I've got it right. While you're still in that
• 48:02
  Speaker 1: same position, I grabbed my phone, point the last place
• 48:05
  Speaker 1: I see, and I snap a picture. And then my
• 48:07
  Speaker 1: finger says, you know, because you don't know, you might
• 48:09
  Speaker 1: be coming back that night, you might be there the
• 48:11
  Speaker 1: next day. But at least you can go to your
• 48:12
  Speaker 1: last landmark because you've got a picture of it. And
• 48:14
  Speaker 1: then when you get out there, you go, oh, here's
• 48:16
  Speaker 1: where I'm pointing out. I'm right here, you know. So
• 48:18
  Speaker 1: that's another thing that I do. Um you know, because
• 48:22
  Speaker 1: all of those things are part of the overall evidence
• 48:25
  Speaker 1: that you're gonna need to track that deer. And it's
• 48:27
  Speaker 1: another reason we did uh Deer Cash track. We have
• 48:30
  Speaker 1: a whole interview in there about the totality of evidence.
• 48:33
  Speaker 1: It's John Inglecan talks about the totality of it all
• 48:36
  Speaker 1: the time. The bucks are the deer's demeanor, what he
• 48:40
  Speaker 1: did after the hit, What does the arrow look like,
• 48:43
  Speaker 1: what does first blood look like, is there any hair?
• 48:45
  Speaker 1: There are there beds along the trail. All of those
• 48:48
  Speaker 1: things add into the clues that help you find your
• 48:51
  Speaker 1: deer and not bump the deer, because ultimately, tracking comes
• 48:55
  Speaker 1: down to not pushing that deer out of their initial
• 48:57
  Speaker 1: bed or the bed they're gonna die in. If you
• 48:59
  Speaker 1: can do that, you're gonna find a lot more of them.
• 49:02
  Speaker 1: And if you if you start to pile up that
• 49:05
  Speaker 1: totality of evidence the moments after the shot, like your
• 49:08
  Speaker 1: checklist literally switches gears from all the things we talked
• 49:11
  Speaker 1: about leading into the shot to those three or four
• 49:14
  Speaker 1: things following the shot, and if you're mentally doing all
• 49:17
  Speaker 1: those things, it actually helps you perform more in the
• 49:19
  Speaker 1: moment of truth because you're not screwing it up because
• 49:21
  Speaker 1: you're all excited, you know, fast forwarding through all that
• 49:24
  Speaker 1: stuff going, I can't wait to get him on Instagram, right,
• 49:27
  Speaker 1: you know. The worst thing you can do is is
• 49:29
  Speaker 1: worry about the prize before you actually go through the
• 49:31
  Speaker 1: effort to find in the deer. Yeah, it's almost like
• 49:34
  Speaker 1: you see a lot of people like they know this,
• 49:37
  Speaker 1: they know they should be watching and thinking about these
• 49:39
  Speaker 1: things and trying to keep track of all this data
• 49:41
  Speaker 1: that happens in those first couple of seconds. But then
• 49:44
  Speaker 1: the rush of adrenaline excitement afterwards is just kind of overwhelming,
• 49:48
  Speaker 1: and then a couple hours later they're back at camp
• 49:51
  Speaker 1: and their buddies are okay, so where was the shot?
• 49:54
  Speaker 1: And there's like, well, I thought it was right behind
• 49:56
  Speaker 1: the shoulder, but I don't know, maybe I'm forgetting, you know,
• 50:00
  Speaker 1: like there's all these things that seems like you almost
• 50:02
  Speaker 1: black out in some cases, and stuff gets fuzzy. It
• 50:05
  Speaker 1: almost seems like it would be helpful if immediately after
• 50:08
  Speaker 1: the shot you were required to answer all those questions
• 50:12
  Speaker 1: right now, ten seconds after while still freshen your mind
• 50:14
  Speaker 1: before everything gets crazy right down on your maybe even
• 50:17
  Speaker 1: in your app right. So, okay, point of the impact
• 50:20
  Speaker 1: was here, penetration seem to be this much last known
• 50:23
  Speaker 1: point was x y z Um. Just a way to
• 50:26
  Speaker 1: document that before your mind gets even crazier in the
• 50:28
  Speaker 1: in the next hour as you go through all that excitement,
• 50:32
  Speaker 1: Um said, it goes along with the picture, right, Take
• 50:35
  Speaker 1: the picture if you're there by yourself, send it to
• 50:37
  Speaker 1: your buddy and write out all your thoughts that you
• 50:40
  Speaker 1: just had in the moment of truth. Go here's what
• 50:42
  Speaker 1: I thought I saw Da da da da da da
• 50:43
  Speaker 1: da Right that list out, send it to him. Then
• 50:45
  Speaker 1: you've got a copy of what you were thinking in
• 50:47
  Speaker 1: the moment. It was. It was interesting in talking to
• 50:50
  Speaker 1: John through this process because John's got tracking though, so
• 50:53
  Speaker 1: he gets called in on the really bad hits, and
• 50:55
  Speaker 1: it's if if he's called in, something went wrong already. Okay,
• 50:59
  Speaker 1: So he's like, it is amazing to me how often,
• 51:02
  Speaker 1: he said, I would bet of the time when I
• 51:05
  Speaker 1: find a deer that the guy described where he hit it,
• 51:09
  Speaker 1: where the hit actually was isn't isn't the same, he said,
• 51:13
  Speaker 1: they will misinterpret it more often than not, and that's
• 51:15
  Speaker 1: why they end up making a mistake when it comes
• 51:18
  Speaker 1: to the tracking. So that's why podcasts like this, apps
• 51:21
  Speaker 1: like Deer Cash Track will help guys get through that
• 51:24
  Speaker 1: adrenaline learning curve, if you will, or that adrenaline roadblock
• 51:29
  Speaker 1: that causes us to make bad, bad decisions or just
• 51:32
  Speaker 1: black out. Like you said, you know, you just start
• 51:34
  Speaker 1: missing things and it's like, why am I doing that? Well,
• 51:37
  Speaker 1: you're excited, that's why we're why we're all out there hunting.
• 51:39
  Speaker 1: But at some point it gets back to the advice
• 51:42
  Speaker 1: Tomy has given us for so long. Slow the game down.
• 51:45
  Speaker 1: Damn it, you're about to screw this up, you know,
• 51:47
  Speaker 1: don't screw it up, don't do it, don't let yourself
• 51:50
  Speaker 1: talk yourself through it, and and don't make that mistake.
• 51:53
  Speaker 1: All right. So then with that in mind, the first
• 51:56
  Speaker 1: piece of data you can probably start adding to this
• 51:59
  Speaker 1: totality of it ins is other than Okay, you saw
• 52:02
  Speaker 1: the point of impact. You noted to yourself what penetration
• 52:05
  Speaker 1: was and where he went, and those handful of things
• 52:08
  Speaker 1: you mentioned the deer's behavior. Could you walk me through
• 52:12
  Speaker 1: a couple of different common deer um. What am I
• 52:15
  Speaker 1: trying to say? When you when you watch a deer
• 52:17
  Speaker 1: runoff or go off, there's a few different types of
• 52:19
  Speaker 1: behavior I've noted that typically would indicate something like if
• 52:23
  Speaker 1: a deer does this, that probably means this kind of hip.
• 52:25
  Speaker 1: I know you've seen the same things, and you've you've
• 52:27
  Speaker 1: called these out before. Could you walk us through a
• 52:29
  Speaker 1: couple of those common types of behaviors that you've noted
• 52:31
  Speaker 1: in the past and what they mean. There's a bunch absolutely.
• 52:35
  Speaker 1: Did a mule kick? Uh, mule kicks one of the
• 52:38
  Speaker 1: first ones. Meal kicks oftentimes are positive more often than not.
• 52:42
  Speaker 1: You know, a mule kick deer, I end up finding that, dear,
• 52:45
  Speaker 1: although I've hit a few deer low that we didn't
• 52:47
  Speaker 1: find that ended up alive, you know, days later or
• 52:50
  Speaker 1: weeks later, that mule kicked and we didn't get him
• 52:52
  Speaker 1: just because the hit was very low. And you will
• 52:54
  Speaker 1: kick because of that, but we're often than not mule
• 52:56
  Speaker 1: kick is a good thing. Um, when you shoot them,
• 53:00
  Speaker 1: are they getting were they calm? Okay? And then did
• 53:03
  Speaker 1: they leave as a scalded dog? Okay? That I have
• 53:07
  Speaker 1: noticed through time as being a generally good sign, not
• 53:11
  Speaker 1: all the time. And one thing about deer that are
• 53:14
  Speaker 1: hit with a bow or a gun or whatever. Tracking
• 53:17
  Speaker 1: there are some probabilities, but you know, nothing is totally probable,
• 53:23
  Speaker 1: and anything is possible when it comes to white tail deer.
• 53:25
  Speaker 1: But there are some things that generally lead you to believe,
• 53:29
  Speaker 1: you know what, I smoked him and he's on his
• 53:30
  Speaker 1: death run. So calm deer suddenly becomes scalded dog. That's
• 53:34
  Speaker 1: generally not a bad thing either, So wouldn't started to interrupt.
• 53:38
  Speaker 1: But before we go on, when you say scalded dog,
• 53:40
  Speaker 1: do you mean like he's running off with his tail
• 53:41
  Speaker 1: between his legs or like just out of their scared,
• 53:43
  Speaker 1: out of their fast. I mean it's hard and as
• 53:46
  Speaker 1: fast as he can go. That that's what I mean
• 53:49
  Speaker 1: by scalded dog, like he went from zero to fifty
• 53:52
  Speaker 1: as fast as he can do it. Um other things
• 53:56
  Speaker 1: that I look for, their ears, Do their ears droop back? Uh?
• 54:00
  Speaker 1: Did they hunch up? Are you are you dealing with liver,
• 54:02
  Speaker 1: stomach or an intestinal hit? Are they hunched? Did they
• 54:06
  Speaker 1: run fifty sixty yards? Stop, hunch up and then walk?
• 54:10
  Speaker 1: All of those things are part of that totality of evidence.
• 54:13
  Speaker 1: You know, if you if you get a deer that
• 54:14
  Speaker 1: does that, chances are he is not immediately fatal. And
• 54:18
  Speaker 1: you bet or go to deer cash track or call
• 54:20
  Speaker 1: somebody's and find out how long you need to wait,
• 54:23
  Speaker 1: because more often than not, a deer that runs fifty
• 54:27
  Speaker 1: even a hundred yards stops, hunches up, and walk slowly.
• 54:30
  Speaker 1: You didn't hit where you thought you did, or you
• 54:32
  Speaker 1: didn't hit where you hoped you would. Um. Also another
• 54:37
  Speaker 1: big one. Did the deer stop, open his mouth and
• 54:39
  Speaker 1: then start to labor for breath? You would go, okay,
• 54:42
  Speaker 1: well that's a long hit. More often than not, a
• 54:44
  Speaker 1: laboring breathing deer is oftentimes stomach or liver. So watch
• 54:49
  Speaker 1: that type stuff. Is he licking his nose very rapidly.
• 54:53
  Speaker 1: Another another thing that I look for. A deer that's
• 54:55
  Speaker 1: looking his nose probably got blood coming up into that
• 54:58
  Speaker 1: nose and he's looking at trying to figure out what's
• 54:59
  Speaker 1: going on, right, you know, So that would tell you
• 55:02
  Speaker 1: there's there's something arterial that was hit or perhaps long hit,
• 55:05
  Speaker 1: and he's getting blood up into his his nasal cavity
• 55:07
  Speaker 1: and he's feeling it in his nose and he starts
• 55:09
  Speaker 1: licking it. Um. What about the tail flick? So the
• 55:14
  Speaker 1: deer runs off fifty or hundred yards, stops and then
• 55:17
  Speaker 1: starts walking away, maybe not noticeably hunched up, but you
• 55:20
  Speaker 1: see this like tail flick, this flick flick flick flick
• 55:22
  Speaker 1: flick flick and slowly walking away. Is that indicative of
• 55:25
  Speaker 1: the same thing? You know, I've seen tail flicks very Um.
• 55:29
  Speaker 1: I've seen them do that where they start flickering and
• 55:32
  Speaker 1: and in general I think that's a better uh sign
• 55:36
  Speaker 1: than a poor one. And oftentimes they'll walk and then
• 55:40
  Speaker 1: die and be and be dead within three to five minutes.
• 55:43
  Speaker 1: Uh So, what I've noticed through the years that scalded
• 55:47
  Speaker 1: dog means that perhaps you cut something that was immediately fatal.
• 55:53
  Speaker 1: You've hit the order, the jugular, the karate, the polaric,
• 55:57
  Speaker 1: one of those main arteries, and they run until they die. Right,
• 56:01
  Speaker 1: The run a little ways scalded for a while, and
• 56:04
  Speaker 1: then stop and start to walk with that tilt tail flitch,
• 56:07
  Speaker 1: and they'll just walk to their death. That sometimes is
• 56:09
  Speaker 1: double lung but you didn't catch the artery going through
• 56:12
  Speaker 1: the lungs, but yet still immediately fatal, but a little
• 56:15
  Speaker 1: bit longer, not seconds, but minutes, right, um. But I've
• 56:19
  Speaker 1: also seen dear hit high on the shoulder and walk
• 56:24
  Speaker 1: away tail twitching, looking around sometimes by their dear the
• 56:29
  Speaker 1: deer's alertness after the hit. Look at their eyes, Look
• 56:32
  Speaker 1: at what they're looking at. Do they look like they're sick,
• 56:35
  Speaker 1: or do they look like they're still attentive and they're
• 56:37
  Speaker 1: not hit very well at all. That will sometimes tell you, okay,
• 56:41
  Speaker 1: that's a little bit bit of evidence right there, he's
• 56:43
  Speaker 1: not fatal yet. Um. Intestinal deer will do that. Sometimes
• 56:47
  Speaker 1: they don't look very they look very attentive because there's
• 56:51
  Speaker 1: not much hit back there. You know, you go through
• 56:53
  Speaker 1: the deers and testines, you know he's gonna die through
• 56:56
  Speaker 1: sepsis one way or the other. If you didn't hit
• 56:58
  Speaker 1: any arteries. You went straight in testines. You know you're
• 57:01
  Speaker 1: looking at a thirty thirty two, thirty six hour process
• 57:05
  Speaker 1: and that all that stuff has to go throughout the
• 57:08
  Speaker 1: deer's blood system and kill him by going septic. So
• 57:13
  Speaker 1: you know that you know that deer is gonna be
• 57:15
  Speaker 1: very attentive in the immediacy after the shot. Whereas liver
• 57:18
  Speaker 1: liver hit deer, well, it takes a man and they
• 57:21
  Speaker 1: lose blood pressure, they start to wobble, they'll run into
• 57:23
  Speaker 1: trees and they feel real wobbly, and then they may
• 57:26
  Speaker 1: go bed immediately because they don't feel good well through time,
• 57:29
  Speaker 1: they start to clot up, and that liver clots up
• 57:32
  Speaker 1: in there. And if you haven't hit the the artery
• 57:34
  Speaker 1: that goes into the liver or runs past it, then
• 57:37
  Speaker 1: he's gonna regain his strength. He's gonna bed seven eight times.
• 57:39
  Speaker 1: It may take nine hours, twelve hours, fifteen hours liver
• 57:43
  Speaker 1: hit deer, depending on broadhead size, or they very drastically
• 57:46
  Speaker 1: in mortality. Uh, the smaller the broadhead, the longer you're
• 57:50
  Speaker 1: gonna have to wait, perhaps sixteen eighteen hours. If you're
• 57:53
  Speaker 1: shooting a one inch I call him p Shooters not
• 57:56
  Speaker 1: to criticize anybody, But I used to shoot those small broadheads,
• 57:58
  Speaker 1: right and you go to the liver and all of
• 58:02
  Speaker 1: a sudden, you're gonna wait sixteen eighteen hours. Switched to
• 58:05
  Speaker 1: the bigger cut on uh, you know, the mechanical type
• 58:09
  Speaker 1: two point three from rage. It dropped our liver hit
• 58:12
  Speaker 1: weight time down to seven eight hours. They're dead a
• 58:15
  Speaker 1: lot of times they're dead and two or three. You know,
• 58:17
  Speaker 1: when you're when you're killing by hemorrhage, you gotta cut them.
• 58:20
  Speaker 1: And if you're not cutting them, you're gonna wait a
• 58:22
  Speaker 1: lot longer. It's one of the reasons I switched away
• 58:24
  Speaker 1: from smaller, smaller dermator broadheads. And and I know a
• 58:28
  Speaker 1: lot of guys are passionate about this point, but it
• 58:31
  Speaker 1: all comes down to that point right there. And and
• 58:33
  Speaker 1: deer cash track. You look at a liver hit deer
• 58:36
  Speaker 1: with a two inch to two point three inch cut,
• 58:39
  Speaker 1: you're looking at, you know, maybe three hours, maybe six eight,
• 58:42
  Speaker 1: nine hours, something like that, depending on which part of
• 58:44
  Speaker 1: the liver same hit. Smaller broadhead like an inch or
• 58:49
  Speaker 1: say it's even seven eight seven inch or something smaller.
• 58:51
  Speaker 1: Even if it's three blades, you might be eighteen hours
• 58:54
  Speaker 1: twenty hours because you just didn't cut enough, he's not
• 58:56
  Speaker 1: bleeding enough. It didn't didn't kill him, So they very
• 58:59
  Speaker 1: great and immortality. So speaking of of broadheads and arrows,
• 59:07
  Speaker 1: let's jump to that next stage then, which is you
• 59:09
  Speaker 1: you observe the deer. You're figuring out a little bit
• 59:11
  Speaker 1: about his behavior. Now you've got to decide, all right,
• 59:15
  Speaker 1: it's time to go down and get the arrow. How
• 59:16
  Speaker 1: long do you usually wait before getting down to checking arrow?
• 59:19
  Speaker 1: And do you always go to the arrow or are
• 59:22
  Speaker 1: there's some situations where you don't even want to walk
• 59:24
  Speaker 1: the twenty yards that direction. You have to just back
• 59:26
  Speaker 1: right out. Yeah, if my gut tells me that this
• 59:29
  Speaker 1: deer is not immediately fatal, then I'm waiting till dark,
• 59:33
  Speaker 1: or I'm waiting until mid morning when the wind gets up,
• 59:36
  Speaker 1: and then I'm slipping down and out. And I generally
• 59:38
  Speaker 1: don't go to the arrow if I feel there's any
• 59:42
  Speaker 1: chance that he's he's right there, you know, or it
• 59:45
  Speaker 1: could see me or hear me, and and you run
• 59:49
  Speaker 1: into that A lot with gut shots, there's stomach or
• 59:51
  Speaker 1: intestines or liver. Right, they'll they'll run sixty yards walk
• 59:55
  Speaker 1: twenty in bed down, you know, and they're just out
• 59:58
  Speaker 1: of your side, or or they may be within your sight.
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 1: I've had that happened before, where they bed down and
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 1: they bed they're facing you and they're like, oh my goodness, gracious.
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 1: So you just got to make sure you don't bump
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 1: that deer because if you move that deer out of
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 1: that first bed, and that's what every decision you make
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 1: after you shoot that deer should be based around not
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 1: moving that deer out of his initial bed. If you
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 1: can do that, you you were money ahead down the line.
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 1: If you do do that and you all of a
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 1: sudden take a trail that would have been a hundred
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 1: hundred fifty yards and turn it into four or five
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 1: hundred yards, well I can assure you that additional two
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 1: to four hundred yards is going to be a nightmare
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 1: for you because they coagulate and clod up almost immediately
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 1: and you just can't find the blood. I mean, it's
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 1: very tough. So I do everything I can to not
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 1: move that deer out of out of his initial bed.
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 1: So my thought process on going to look at an
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 1: arrow more often than not, unless it's a situation where
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 1: you know he can't see you or hear you, I'll
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 1: go out there and grab it and get out of there.
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 1: But if it's one that at all, by chance he
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 1: might here see or smell you, I'm getting down and
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 1: getting out, you know, and trying to make sure he
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 1: doesn't know that that I was there. I always are
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 1: on the side of caution, right Like even on double
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 1: long hits something. Taylor is always like, you're so pessimistic, Dad,
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 1: a little pitsimistic, and I'm like, I just try to
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 1: be realistic because through the years it goes back to
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 1: my conversation about you know, nothing's probable and anything's possible.
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 1: Like I've had dear smoked. I mean, we got it
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 1: on video double lung, and seven eight hours later, I'm
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 1: still jumping this bugger and it's like, how is this possible? Man?
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 1: Blood trail is wide as a pickup truck, and he's
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 1: still not dead, you know, I mean, things vary from mortality.
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 1: Inside of a deer, they just do you know, if
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 1: if you don't clip an artery somewhere in their body,
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 1: chances are they're not going to die within seconds, which
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 1: in our mind we're all optimistic. Oh, let's go get
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 1: the deer. Let's go get him. I noise dead. I no,
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 1: he's dead. What if he's not? You know, so weather
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 1: comes into play. You know, you gotta look at that
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 1: as well. Or you're dealing with or you're dealing with
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 1: you know, rain coming, or is it cold enough to
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 1: keep the deer good? You know, Um, if you've hit
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 1: him back. Here's another another little known fact, and Bobby
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 1: Culvertson taught me this one. A warm temperature deer that's
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 1: hit through the intestines will die much quicker than a
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 1: deer in cold temperatures because the sepsis takes over in
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 1: a much shorter period of time. So if it's smoking
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 1: hot in the first part of the season, probably gonna
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 1: lose the meat because it's the only way to kill him.
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 1: But the deer is gonna spoil as the deer actually
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 1: sits there and dies. Um. If it's colder, it's gonna
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 1: take much longer. You might end up retrieving the meat,
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 1: but it's gonna take much longer. Those deer that are
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 1: hit back, I mean, it's you just gotta you gotta
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 1: do everything in your power to not hit them back there.
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 1: It's still gonna happen, but you want to make sure
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 1: that you give the deer every chance you can to
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 1: make a good, clean, ethical kill. Yeah, I want to
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 1: talk a little bit about, um, how weather conditions impact
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 1: your decisions, but I guess I'm gonna try to stick
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 1: in our little scenario here before I jumped to that, um,
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 1: because the next piece of evidence is what you see
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 1: at the sign of the hit. Can you walk me
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 1: through a few things you look for and what they
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 1: might indicate. Um, you know, I'm oftentimes at the sign
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 1: of the hit, you don't get a lot You ever
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 1: noticed that it's like, well, there's no blood here, right?
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 1: It might be because of a red green color blind marker. Yeah,
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 1: everybody a lot more than we know. But oftentimes some hair.
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 1: You know, white hair is a bad thing in general.
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 1: Brown darker brown hair is good. Gray hair in between somewhere,
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 1: But sometimes there's hair. Sometimes there's immediate blood, which I like.
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 1: That means you went through something quickly that's spurred it out.
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 1: If that immediate blood turns into immediate and constant blood,
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 1: that's probably a real good thing. You probably hit an
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 1: artery that's under pressure, and you're gonna find that deer
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 1: very quickly. If, however, there's no blood may or may
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 1: not mean anything. How high was the hit? Was there
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 1: an exit? Is there blood coming out both sides? It's
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 1: one thing I always want to know because I don't
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 1: shoot a lot of poundage because I'm always dealing with
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 1: that that sore left shoulders. So I'm still shooting in
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 1: the in the low fifties. So often if you watch
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 1: my shots on TV, they'll go through the on side,
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 1: lodge on the off side and not poke out the
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 1: other side. But I'm shooting a two point three right,
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 1: so I'm just driving it through and uh, I often
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 1: don't get an exit. I'm oftentimes stuck in the off
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 1: shoulder frankly, and it just it's not going to exit
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 1: through there. But the deer runs seventy eight yards is
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 1: dead down for the count because I went through the
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 1: good stuff. Uh So just because you don't have immediate
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 1: blood doesn't mean that the deer isn't dead. Uh you know,
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 1: did you shoot through the shoulder and then the shoulder,
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 1: Actually the meat in that front shoulder can seal off
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 1: the hole that then entered into the front body cavity.
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 1: And I think that's something important that we haven't talked about.
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 1: You can learn a lot about tracking deer and where
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 1: to shoot deer if you'll just do an almost autopsy
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 1: on everyone that you shoot, and just even when you butcher,
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 1: I'm like, look at the bone structure, look at the
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 1: meat structure, and go, holy calf, I hit a deer
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 1: right here. Look what I've got to go through to
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 1: get in the cavity. Whereas if I'm two inches behind
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 1: that on a quartering away, I got nothing to get
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 1: through to get into that cavity. You know, there's a
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 1: big difference in that that shoulder and the meat within
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 1: that shoulder. So look at all those different things when
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 1: you're getting a deer or are butchering a deer, and
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 1: it helps make better decisions going forward the next time
• 1:05:36
  Speaker 1: you're out there a field. But back to your question,
• 1:05:39
  Speaker 1: you know, I'm I'm looking at everything I can get,
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 1: But often that first fifty sixty yards there's not a
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 1: ton of evidence there for you, because you know that
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 1: blood has to start filling up inside the cavity before
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 1: it starts spilling out that hole. So if you've got
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 1: a mid chest to above mid chest, a lot of
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 1: times those blood trails are kind of tough because you
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 1: know all the bloods inside. Yeah, all right, So you're
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 1: forty yards down the trail then and you finally get
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 1: some really good blood. Uh color. I know there's a
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 1: lot of you know, basic stuff out there, but is
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 1: there any nuance to coloring that you're looking for to
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 1: help indicate anything about the shop? Oh? Absolutely, yeah, man,
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 1: I like pink. I like that bright red, pinkish air.
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 1: You find air in blood. You're talking about something that's arterial,
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 1: which is great. Uh, I was That's my first thing
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 1: I look for. Is there bubbles present or is there not?
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 1: And then I look at color. Uh, pink, bright red,
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 1: very good artery. Okay, so that's that's coming out of
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 1: the heart feed the rest of the body. If, however,
• 1:06:37
  Speaker 1: it's dark and with no air, chances are that maybe
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 1: vein or meat. Then you look at how dark is it.
• 1:06:43
  Speaker 1: If it's quite quite dark, almost maroon to brown, chances
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 1: are that maybe just a meat hit. Then you look
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 1: at the presence. Is there grit? Is there any any
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 1: substance within it? All right? Did you hit that um
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 1: that stomach when you were actually oh I smoked him.
• 1:06:59
  Speaker 1: I'm along, Wait are you liver stomach? Are you just
• 1:07:03
  Speaker 1: clean liver? Those types of things. Are those Those hits
• 1:07:08
  Speaker 1: will become evident as you learn to interpret blood and
• 1:07:11
  Speaker 1: what the different blood signs mean. So I'm constantly looking
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 1: at at color and and most importantly content of the blood.
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 1: Is it air? Is it not air? Is it grit? Yeah?
• 1:07:22
  Speaker 1: Are there any other pieces of evidence that we haven't
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 1: touched on then that get you to the decision time?
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 1: As far as when did go? I feel like we've
• 1:07:31
  Speaker 1: covered like walking versus running? Blood is another one that
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 1: I look at is that is it a distance between
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 1: blood spots? And are the blood spots spatters to where
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 1: they hit and then fan out or are they droplets?
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 1: Is the deer standing there? Is it puddling? The moment
• 1:07:50
  Speaker 1: a deer on a blood trail stops and puddles and
• 1:07:55
  Speaker 1: is standing there thinking, Then I start to go back
• 1:07:58
  Speaker 1: in time and go, Okay, did I interpret this correctly?
• 1:08:01
  Speaker 1: Did I hit where I thought I hit? Maybe I
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 1: didn't hit what I thought I did. And I'm always
• 1:08:06
  Speaker 1: the moment they stop and start walking or standing, I'm like, oh,
• 1:08:10
  Speaker 1: not dead. He's thinking, he's thinking what's going on here?
• 1:08:14
  Speaker 1: One thing I've noticed about fatally hit dear they will
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 1: often run to their death or they will run and
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 1: then walk to their death. Dear that stop and start
• 1:08:22
  Speaker 1: to think and start to look for a bed. That's
• 1:08:24
  Speaker 1: the other thing is meandering looking for a bed. That's
• 1:08:27
  Speaker 1: a deer that's not quite ready to die yet. And
• 1:08:29
  Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, did I already bump him? You know
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 1: that's that's a bad sign when you get to that.
• 1:08:33
  Speaker 1: So if you've tracked immediately and you start to see that,
• 1:08:36
  Speaker 1: and you're on wet blood and you start to see
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 1: a dear meander, you're like, oh, did I already run
• 1:08:40
  Speaker 1: him out of here? And did you know? And I
• 1:08:41
  Speaker 1: didn't know that I did it, So you know, you
• 1:08:43
  Speaker 1: gotta you gotta always be ready to give up, you know,
• 1:08:47
  Speaker 1: always be ready to go. Oh, things aren't exactly what
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 1: I thought here. Yeah, that's an interesting point because I
• 1:08:52
  Speaker 1: feel like a lot of times when I've been out
• 1:08:54
  Speaker 1: with friends and I probably have jumped to this assumption too.
• 1:08:57
  Speaker 1: When you see the puddle of blood, sometimes jumped to
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 1: the opposite conclusion, like a bunch of blood. He's gonna
• 1:09:02
  Speaker 1: be here any minute, like he's he's he's right around here.
• 1:09:04
  Speaker 1: There's a huge pool right here. That's so often what
• 1:09:07
  Speaker 1: you hear um. But you make an interesting point, it
• 1:09:10
  Speaker 1: might be the exact opposite situation, and then because you
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 1: get so excited and you think he's close, you actually
• 1:09:16
  Speaker 1: do the worst possible thing, push him out of where
• 1:09:18
  Speaker 1: he would have been. Yeah, in reality it just went
• 1:09:20
  Speaker 1: from running to walking too stopped and therefore the blood increased,
• 1:09:24
  Speaker 1: when in reality his speed his speed decreased. These chances
• 1:09:28
  Speaker 1: are he's not dead yet. Yeah, Okay, so we've looked
• 1:09:32
  Speaker 1: at all this evidence. We have analyzed the totality of evidence,
• 1:09:35
  Speaker 1: as you guys are calling it now. I know in
• 1:09:37
  Speaker 1: the tracking app there's gonna be a whole lot of
• 1:09:40
  Speaker 1: different types of scenarios covered in a lot of detail.
• 1:09:43
  Speaker 1: But can you give us just like a couple of
• 1:09:44
  Speaker 1: the most likely, most common scenarios and then how that
• 1:09:49
  Speaker 1: impacts your decision as far as when to start tracking?
• 1:09:51
  Speaker 1: So double long? How long do you wait? Gut shot?
• 1:09:54
  Speaker 1: How long do you wait a few things like that. Absolutely,
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 1: If if in any hit I see blood under pressure
• 1:10:04
  Speaker 1: coming out or forming under the skin, whether it be
• 1:10:07
  Speaker 1: on video with my own eyes, once you see blood
• 1:10:11
  Speaker 1: and lots of blood, then that's always a great sign
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 1: you've hit an artery that's under pressure coming out of
• 1:10:17
  Speaker 1: the heart, and chances are that deer is dead before
• 1:10:20
  Speaker 1: you before you get out of your stand. You know,
• 1:10:22
  Speaker 1: that's always a good thing. If you don't see the
• 1:10:25
  Speaker 1: presence of blood, then that's a different scenario and you
• 1:10:28
  Speaker 1: have to start backing up. And even if you double lungum,
• 1:10:31
  Speaker 1: sometimes you get a lot of blood on double lung shots.
• 1:10:33
  Speaker 1: Sometimes you don't. There are arteries. It's the aortic that
• 1:10:37
  Speaker 1: goes right through the middle of the lungs up to
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 1: the top of the back and then backwards towards the
• 1:10:41
  Speaker 1: back formoral artery that the arctic turns into the formoral
• 1:10:44
  Speaker 1: back in the top of the ham right and it's
• 1:10:47
  Speaker 1: really big up through there. It's quite big through the lungs.
• 1:10:49
  Speaker 1: If you clip it going through that deer is dead
• 1:10:52
  Speaker 1: in seconds, and if you don't, might be a little
• 1:10:55
  Speaker 1: bit longer. You know, I have a tendency to give
• 1:10:57
  Speaker 1: double long hit deer that don't bleed heavily at the
• 1:11:01
  Speaker 1: impact an hour to two at least um. If I
• 1:11:05
  Speaker 1: do have a lot of blood right away, I go,
• 1:11:08
  Speaker 1: I go very quickly. Uh. The tricky one to me,
• 1:11:11
  Speaker 1: and the one that I see people probably make the
• 1:11:15
  Speaker 1: most mistakes on, is that heart, liver, stomach area along
• 1:11:19
  Speaker 1: the bottom right there. I mean literally through six inches.
• 1:11:23
  Speaker 1: You go from immediacy to nine to twelve hours to
• 1:11:28
  Speaker 1: twenty four to thirty hours within six inches. And and
• 1:11:33
  Speaker 1: I always say an inch a cost you a mile, right,
• 1:11:36
  Speaker 1: A second might cost you a mile if you don't
• 1:11:38
  Speaker 1: if you don't think an extra second before you shoot,
• 1:11:40
  Speaker 1: it might cost you a mile if you're if you're
• 1:11:42
  Speaker 1: back an inch from the heart and you didn't hit it,
• 1:11:45
  Speaker 1: you go, well, I'm in the ribs. I got I
• 1:11:46
  Speaker 1: got it, man. I smoked him. Um Taylor had a
• 1:11:49
  Speaker 1: hit like that, oh three years ago, fork the pig
• 1:11:53
  Speaker 1: Missouri buck ray ss straight through I mean just behind
• 1:11:58
  Speaker 1: the heart. Um, miss the heart and missed the lungs,
• 1:12:01
  Speaker 1: square through the liver. He was alive at the fourteen
• 1:12:04
  Speaker 1: hour mark the next day, and we found him at fifteen.
• 1:12:07
  Speaker 1: He was he was on his last last leg, all right.
• 1:12:10
  Speaker 1: We put that hit out on social media and said,
• 1:12:13
  Speaker 1: what would you do in this situation? Everybody was smoked him,
• 1:12:16
  Speaker 1: go get him, smoked him, Go get him, smoked him,
• 1:12:18
  Speaker 1: go get him. And that wasn't the case. And we
• 1:12:20
  Speaker 1: interpreted it correctly that night. And we did that because
• 1:12:22
  Speaker 1: of the blood sign. She made the hit. They waited
• 1:12:26
  Speaker 1: till dark backed out. I wasn't with her in this case,
• 1:12:28
  Speaker 1: Scott Rupert was. We looked at the hit and I said, man,
• 1:12:31
  Speaker 1: you're right on that verge. You're you're right behind the heart.
• 1:12:33
  Speaker 1: You might be just liver. And then we looked at
• 1:12:35
  Speaker 1: the blood sign. It was dark, it had grid in it,
• 1:12:37
  Speaker 1: and we were like, we're out of here, you know.
• 1:12:39
  Speaker 1: We backed out, waited till fourteen hours. We didn't jump
• 1:12:43
  Speaker 1: the deer. We found him in his first bed. He
• 1:12:46
  Speaker 1: did get up and moved us a little bit, but
• 1:12:48
  Speaker 1: he was dead at the fifteen hour mark. So those
• 1:12:51
  Speaker 1: that hit right there, right behind the heart, you get
• 1:12:54
  Speaker 1: through the liver and everybody, everybody, I mean, the people
• 1:12:58
  Speaker 1: that participated in that, and I'm talking we had two
• 1:13:00
  Speaker 1: or three hundred opinions were like, smoked him, go get him.
• 1:13:04
  Speaker 1: So that's one of the reasons we did. Dear Cash
• 1:13:06
  Speaker 1: track that right there so that you can interpret the
• 1:13:08
  Speaker 1: difference between that shot and that shot. There's also a
• 1:13:11
  Speaker 1: difference in gut shot. Dear did you hit stomach, did
• 1:13:14
  Speaker 1: you hit large intestines, front, did you hit mid or
• 1:13:17
  Speaker 1: did you hit back? We examine all of those different hits,
• 1:13:20
  Speaker 1: and the fact that arteries within a deer taper out
• 1:13:25
  Speaker 1: and deplete as they run backwards within the deer, with
• 1:13:28
  Speaker 1: the exception of the aortic, which goes into the femoral
• 1:13:31
  Speaker 1: But if you get into those guts, you run out
• 1:13:33
  Speaker 1: of those things and you're you're you are much better
• 1:13:35
  Speaker 1: off if you're going to hit one in the guts
• 1:13:37
  Speaker 1: to be a little bit forward, closer to the blood system,
• 1:13:40
  Speaker 1: to the heart which is pumping in than you are
• 1:13:42
  Speaker 1: to be at the back, you know, front of guts
• 1:13:45
  Speaker 1: might be able to go in twenty hours, backup guts
• 1:13:48
  Speaker 1: probably looking at thirty you know, thirty two something like that,
• 1:13:51
  Speaker 1: big difference because there's not as much blood. Wow, what
• 1:13:54
  Speaker 1: about what we're talking lungs there? A second ago? What
• 1:13:57
  Speaker 1: about the dreaded single lung shot? All right, Well, for
• 1:14:00
  Speaker 1: a while it wasn't dreaded, but I feel like recently
• 1:14:02
  Speaker 1: it's been something that's talked about quite a bit. Is
• 1:14:04
  Speaker 1: that something you've had trouble with? We actually examine it
• 1:14:08
  Speaker 1: in depth in the in the app and it was interesting. Myself, Terry,
• 1:14:12
  Speaker 1: Bobby John all gave our opinions independently of the other
• 1:14:17
  Speaker 1: and we all had the exact same opinion on one
• 1:14:20
  Speaker 1: lungs and that is, more often than not they don't die. Um,
• 1:14:25
  Speaker 1: we all said the same thing. One long hits are
• 1:14:27
  Speaker 1: the trickiest we've ever tracked. More often than not you
• 1:14:30
  Speaker 1: don't get them. Um. The deer can go on one long,
• 1:14:33
  Speaker 1: plain and simple. So it it, it, more than anything else,
• 1:14:38
  Speaker 1: should keep you from shooting straight down onto a deer,
• 1:14:41
  Speaker 1: or should make you discipline in terms of the angle
• 1:14:44
  Speaker 1: in which you shoot the deer. If they are out there,
• 1:14:47
  Speaker 1: you know you want to make sure that you at
• 1:14:48
  Speaker 1: least take long liver or both lungs out, because if
• 1:14:52
  Speaker 1: you get one lung, because these two far quartering away,
• 1:14:55
  Speaker 1: then you're asking for trouble and you're probably not gonna
• 1:14:58
  Speaker 1: find the deer. One long deer probably the worst you
• 1:15:00
  Speaker 1: can have as a bow hunter, in my opinion, one
• 1:15:02
  Speaker 1: of the worst. And how long would you wait in
• 1:15:04
  Speaker 1: that kind of scenario. I'll wait eight to ten hours
• 1:15:07
  Speaker 1: probably then go look either that or if I've got
• 1:15:09
  Speaker 1: a lot of room to go, one long hit deer,
• 1:15:11
  Speaker 1: probably the appropriate thing is get on him, and get
• 1:15:13
  Speaker 1: on them quick and try and keep them bleeding, to
• 1:15:15
  Speaker 1: try and bleed them out because once they coagulate, they're
• 1:15:17
  Speaker 1: gonna start to heal up and they're gonna go on
• 1:15:19
  Speaker 1: that off along. So kind of along those lines, then
• 1:15:23
  Speaker 1: what about this scenario where it's raining or snowing really
• 1:15:28
  Speaker 1: heavily and you're worried that you know you're gonna you'renna
• 1:15:31
  Speaker 1: lose blood, do you? I've always said, I've always struggled
• 1:15:35
  Speaker 1: this internally. I've always imagined there's two situations you could
• 1:15:38
  Speaker 1: go for. You could say, Okay, it's raining and snowing,
• 1:15:41
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna lose my blood soon. That means I need
• 1:15:43
  Speaker 1: to start tracking sooner than later, because I want to
• 1:15:45
  Speaker 1: take advantage of what blood I do still have. That's
• 1:15:48
  Speaker 1: option A. Option B is the opposite, which is, Okay,
• 1:15:51
  Speaker 1: I'm probably not gonna have a good blood trail no
• 1:15:53
  Speaker 1: matter what, So I want to make sure that I
• 1:15:55
  Speaker 1: don't push him and make it impossible to find him.
• 1:15:58
  Speaker 1: If I don't push him too soon, he'll that down
• 1:16:00
  Speaker 1: relatively quickly, and I can hopefully with where I saw
• 1:16:03
  Speaker 1: him last, and then some smart grid searching from there,
• 1:16:06
  Speaker 1: I'll find him close. Those have always been the two
• 1:16:08
  Speaker 1: scenarrows I've contemplated in my head, what which do you
• 1:16:12
  Speaker 1: think is the better option or is there something between?
• 1:16:14
  Speaker 1: Are different entirely. I agree with both of those, and
• 1:16:17
  Speaker 1: I think it probably goes some some more thinking on
• 1:16:20
  Speaker 1: top of that is what shot am I willing to
• 1:16:23
  Speaker 1: take today? Given the forecast that I just looked at
• 1:16:26
  Speaker 1: for I climbed in the tree or climbing in the blind,
• 1:16:28
  Speaker 1: versus if there is no rain in the forecast for
• 1:16:31
  Speaker 1: the next seven days, right, you know, like if it's
• 1:16:34
  Speaker 1: those days, like there's certain days because tailor shoots an
• 1:16:37
  Speaker 1: inch and a half, we just look at each other
• 1:16:39
  Speaker 1: and go, you know what, probably not a good idea
• 1:16:41
  Speaker 1: to hunt tonight. You know, if the blood trails wiped out,
• 1:16:44
  Speaker 1: just we're not gonna find the animal. It's not fair.
• 1:16:46
  Speaker 1: Let's let's just hold off, you know. And I'm the
• 1:16:49
  Speaker 1: same way. There's nights where I are wait and I
• 1:16:50
  Speaker 1: go and we're not hunting tonight. You know, you you
• 1:16:54
  Speaker 1: go through enough tough blood trails on great hits, and
• 1:16:57
  Speaker 1: you go, we don't need anything working in aginst us
• 1:17:00
  Speaker 1: with snow or with rain. So if there's a fresh
• 1:17:03
  Speaker 1: snowfall coming, probably not gonna hunt. If I do, my
• 1:17:07
  Speaker 1: shot is going to be within fifteen yards and I
• 1:17:09
  Speaker 1: know it's a freaking slam dunk double long watch him
• 1:17:12
  Speaker 1: fall down in the field. That type of thinking. Same
• 1:17:15
  Speaker 1: with rain rains a I I oftentimes just don't go
• 1:17:19
  Speaker 1: or if I do, um it's a slam dunk shot,
• 1:17:22
  Speaker 1: or I'm not gonna take it. I know I'm gonna
• 1:17:24
  Speaker 1: double along the deer. So I think you you add
• 1:17:27
  Speaker 1: into your decision making or your thought process with you
• 1:17:30
  Speaker 1: know I'm gonna I'm gonna hold off on certain shots
• 1:17:34
  Speaker 1: or not go at all. Yeah, that's an interesting point
• 1:17:37
  Speaker 1: and a and a and a good thing to be
• 1:17:39
  Speaker 1: thinking about. Like you said, um, the ultimate most important
• 1:17:43
  Speaker 1: thing of all this is is making sure that you
• 1:17:45
  Speaker 1: do everything you can to to recover a deer. And
• 1:17:48
  Speaker 1: if you are shooting a deer that you don't even
• 1:17:50
  Speaker 1: think it's possible to recover because of those uh factors,
• 1:17:53
  Speaker 1: then what the heck are you doing out there? So
• 1:17:55
  Speaker 1: exactly now, now you know, storms pop up that weren't predicted.
• 1:17:59
  Speaker 1: You know what if you're shooting and you hit a
• 1:18:02
  Speaker 1: deer and say in the liver, and all of a sudden,
• 1:18:05
  Speaker 1: unexpected snow squall blows through and dumps two inches. Oh my, goodness,
• 1:18:10
  Speaker 1: Now what do we do? I have to wait. I
• 1:18:11
  Speaker 1: know he's alive right right now. I know he's not
• 1:18:14
  Speaker 1: dead yet. So I'm in your option be there where
• 1:18:16
  Speaker 1: I'm I'm waiting longer than then I you make sure
• 1:18:20
  Speaker 1: you don't bump him out of that bed, absolutely make
• 1:18:23
  Speaker 1: sure and and go out there and find him in
• 1:18:25
  Speaker 1: that first bed. Yeah, that that's always what I've aired towards.
• 1:18:29
  Speaker 1: I would rather just make sure it's not a mile
• 1:18:32
  Speaker 1: and a half two mile track shop. Um, that hundred
• 1:18:35
  Speaker 1: yards away hopeful bed is is a much better best
• 1:18:37
  Speaker 1: case scenario worst Um. Okay, So now we've made a
• 1:18:44
  Speaker 1: decision as far as how long we're gonna wait, we
• 1:18:47
  Speaker 1: get back out there to do our tracking after the
• 1:18:50
  Speaker 1: appropriate amount of time without we're kind of running that
• 1:18:53
  Speaker 1: time here. But I guess as much as you can
• 1:18:55
  Speaker 1: share here about what you're tracking process, looks like I
• 1:18:58
  Speaker 1: would be interested. Um Like, how many people do you
• 1:19:01
  Speaker 1: like to have? How many? Too many? Um? What things
• 1:19:04
  Speaker 1: are you thinking about as you go? Um? I know
• 1:19:07
  Speaker 1: there's sometimes people like to do this. Someone always waits
• 1:19:09
  Speaker 1: at last blood and then one other person goes ahead
• 1:19:10
  Speaker 1: and you do like a leap frog approach. Anything you
• 1:19:13
  Speaker 1: want to share. As far as the actual tracking process, absolutely,
• 1:19:16
  Speaker 1: I think it's vitally important. I like to track with
• 1:19:19
  Speaker 1: three people, and I like someone at last blood and
• 1:19:22
  Speaker 1: to other people that can see quite well out in
• 1:19:26
  Speaker 1: front looking if you're at night, I think the guy
• 1:19:28
  Speaker 1: at last blood also needs to be looking forward in
• 1:19:31
  Speaker 1: front of them to see if a deer gets up,
• 1:19:34
  Speaker 1: you know, with his light. Make sure you're not seeing
• 1:19:36
  Speaker 1: eyes that type of stuff, because they're focused on the
• 1:19:38
  Speaker 1: ground look over blood. You need somebody focused on on
• 1:19:41
  Speaker 1: inside the woods or are inside the field or whatever
• 1:19:43
  Speaker 1: you're looking for. Make sure you're not seeing eyes get
• 1:19:45
  Speaker 1: up to make sure you didn't didn't jump them. And
• 1:19:48
  Speaker 1: I also think that when you have people tracking, it's
• 1:19:51
  Speaker 1: not a bad thing at night if you at all
• 1:19:54
  Speaker 1: think that the animal could still be aliable. First of all,
• 1:19:56
  Speaker 1: you shouldn't be tracking. But if by chance you're like, oh,
• 1:20:00
  Speaker 1: this thing could be alive, be very quiet, and that's
• 1:20:03
  Speaker 1: day or night. I always track like they're alive regardless.
• 1:20:06
  Speaker 1: I mean, I just always make that assumption they're alive
• 1:20:08
  Speaker 1: until you find them, because if by chance they're alive
• 1:20:11
  Speaker 1: and you've tracked as if they're dead, you bump that
• 1:20:14
  Speaker 1: sucker two hundred yards ago, right, and you you've just
• 1:20:18
  Speaker 1: literally almost eliminated your chance as a fighting the deer.
• 1:20:20
  Speaker 1: So I'm kind of I'm not the most pleasant guy
• 1:20:24
  Speaker 1: to track with because I'm really strict about shut up,
• 1:20:28
  Speaker 1: don't make a nobody says a word when we track nothing.
• 1:20:31
  Speaker 1: We don't even utter a word unless it's whispering or
• 1:20:34
  Speaker 1: hand signs that type of stuff, because you know, what
• 1:20:37
  Speaker 1: if they are alive. You know what if we cause
• 1:20:39
  Speaker 1: that deer to get up when we're four hundred yards
• 1:20:40
  Speaker 1: from him, I mean, you're ruining your chance as a
• 1:20:43
  Speaker 1: finding name, right, Like, what if the blood trails four
• 1:20:46
  Speaker 1: hundred yards long and you struggle through the first two hundred,
• 1:20:49
  Speaker 1: and you've talked through that two hundred and you get
• 1:20:51
  Speaker 1: to the two hundred yard mark and you go, you
• 1:20:53
  Speaker 1: know what, I didn't hit where I thought we need
• 1:20:55
  Speaker 1: to back out. Well, what if in that two hundred
• 1:20:57
  Speaker 1: the deer that was four hundred yards away just put
• 1:20:59
  Speaker 1: an additional five between you and him and you didn't
• 1:21:02
  Speaker 1: even know it. You caused that, and you didn't realize
• 1:21:05
  Speaker 1: until you got there two hundred yard mark. I need
• 1:21:07
  Speaker 1: to back out anyway, Well, take the precaution in that
• 1:21:10
  Speaker 1: first two hundred yards to not spook that deer. I'm
• 1:21:13
  Speaker 1: also very cognizant of like, if I'm on the edge
• 1:21:17
  Speaker 1: of I need to wait ten hours versus twelve hours. Well,
• 1:21:20
  Speaker 1: if there's a wind switch that puts me in a
• 1:21:22
  Speaker 1: disadvantage coming at the ten hour mark, I'm gonna go
• 1:21:25
  Speaker 1: a little sooner than I am later, if that makes sense.
• 1:21:28
  Speaker 1: In other words, if the deer ran away in an
• 1:21:30
  Speaker 1: up wind position and I'm getting ready to go tracking,
• 1:21:33
  Speaker 1: I'm looking at the wind direction for the hour that
• 1:21:35
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna go tracking to go, you know what, We're
• 1:21:37
  Speaker 1: gonna have the wind in their favor and go old.
• 1:21:39
  Speaker 1: No winds that are back, I'm gonna I'm I'm gonna
• 1:21:41
  Speaker 1: go before it turns if I can, or if it
• 1:21:44
  Speaker 1: switches right away, I'm waiting longer before I go. If
• 1:21:47
  Speaker 1: that makes sense. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense,
• 1:21:49
  Speaker 1: and something that that I haven't thought about enough. Yeah,
• 1:21:52
  Speaker 1: don't put your wind across the animal, you know. So
• 1:21:54
  Speaker 1: it's like, well, you know, it's you know, it's like,
• 1:21:58
  Speaker 1: what if we put our wind across somewhere He's gone on, buddy,
• 1:22:00
  Speaker 1: I mean, you're not fine that dear, you better, wait,
• 1:22:02
  Speaker 1: you better, mcdar aren't sure he's dead for you get
• 1:22:05
  Speaker 1: on that track job, because he's gonna smell you before
• 1:22:07
  Speaker 1: you even get there. So think of every single thing
• 1:22:10
  Speaker 1: that goes into a track job before you ever go
• 1:22:12
  Speaker 1: out there. The weather ahead, the weather behind, what's coming?
• 1:22:15
  Speaker 1: Is it heating up? Is it cooling down? Are you
• 1:22:17
  Speaker 1: gonna be dealing with frost? And the first thing in
• 1:22:19
  Speaker 1: the morning, Well, let's wait till it burns off, because
• 1:22:20
  Speaker 1: you're not gonna see the blood. It's a you know,
• 1:22:22
  Speaker 1: it's a white carpet out there. Those types of things, UM,
• 1:22:25
  Speaker 1: will help you. What about the situation where you get
• 1:22:28
  Speaker 1: out there after the appropriate amount of time and you
• 1:22:31
  Speaker 1: lose blood? Uh? Do you have a system in place
• 1:22:34
  Speaker 1: for how you try to like expand out from there
• 1:22:37
  Speaker 1: with a grid or circle? Or in that situation do
• 1:22:40
  Speaker 1: you always back out and wait a little longer? What
• 1:22:43
  Speaker 1: about that if we're convinced that they're dead, if we've
• 1:22:46
  Speaker 1: convinced we've waited the appropriate amount of time, which more
• 1:22:48
  Speaker 1: often than not, when we track, we are fairly convinced
• 1:22:50
  Speaker 1: that animal is dead. I always are on the side
• 1:22:53
  Speaker 1: of caution. Um, Then when I run out of blood.
• 1:22:57
  Speaker 1: We look exhaustively and I'm talking hours to three, four
• 1:23:01
  Speaker 1: or five hours trying to trying to work that track out,
• 1:23:04
  Speaker 1: because your best chance of finding an animal, in my opinion,
• 1:23:08
  Speaker 1: is to get on blood, stay on blood until it
• 1:23:10
  Speaker 1: leads you to a dead deer. Once you once you
• 1:23:13
  Speaker 1: lose blood and you start the grid thing. More often
• 1:23:16
  Speaker 1: than not, it's very difficult to find the dear. You
• 1:23:19
  Speaker 1: can do it. You got a chance. But oftentimes those
• 1:23:23
  Speaker 1: deer that I end up gritting on, I get on
• 1:23:25
  Speaker 1: camera in a week later, ten days later, two weeks later,
• 1:23:28
  Speaker 1: or whatever. Once we start gritting, more often than not,
• 1:23:30
  Speaker 1: we don't find him. And oftentimes it wasn't the hit
• 1:23:32
  Speaker 1: we thought it was. It wasn't fatal. If you know
• 1:23:34
  Speaker 1: it's fatal, you know, if you know it's a it's
• 1:23:37
  Speaker 1: a gut shot deer, and guts are protruding out both
• 1:23:40
  Speaker 1: sides of the whole. There was zero blood along the
• 1:23:43
  Speaker 1: entire track job that I'm waiting the appropriate thirty to
• 1:23:47
  Speaker 1: thirty two hours or thirty six depending on temperatures, and
• 1:23:50
  Speaker 1: then i'm my butt is going and I'm I've got
• 1:23:52
  Speaker 1: a bunch of buddies. Were still quiet, and we spread
• 1:23:55
  Speaker 1: out and we start gritting it very thoroughly, any any
• 1:24:00
  Speaker 1: anything beyond the obvious. When it comes to a grid
• 1:24:02
  Speaker 1: search strategy, there is a just spread out walk you know.
• 1:24:07
  Speaker 1: It's it's that, it's that grid strategy. And I used
• 1:24:10
  Speaker 1: the on X app. I put my tracker on to
• 1:24:12
  Speaker 1: make sure that I'm hitting everything thoroughly and I'm not
• 1:24:15
  Speaker 1: leaving any holes, and that that app will help you
• 1:24:18
  Speaker 1: grid and grid appropriately. You know, for years you go, okay,
• 1:24:21
  Speaker 1: well let's take this, take this, take that. Well, you
• 1:24:23
  Speaker 1: didn't know whether you hit that area or not with
• 1:24:25
  Speaker 1: that tracker on you, and it shows you where all
• 1:24:27
  Speaker 1: you've been and all your buddies have been, you know,
• 1:24:29
  Speaker 1: whether you've appropriately gridded it or not. Yeah, very very
• 1:24:33
  Speaker 1: helpful to all. I do the same thing now when
• 1:24:36
  Speaker 1: you're out there looking by the way. Yeah, agreed. Another
• 1:24:40
  Speaker 1: thing A lot of times people are thinking about when
• 1:24:42
  Speaker 1: they get to that body search period, right, it's it's
• 1:24:45
  Speaker 1: a bad scenario to being. But if you end up
• 1:24:47
  Speaker 1: in that scenario and you're trying to grid search or
• 1:24:49
  Speaker 1: just looking for it with nothing to guide you, um,
• 1:24:52
  Speaker 1: oftentimes people will kind of run out these tropes like
• 1:24:54
  Speaker 1: well a buck will never run up hill, or a
• 1:24:56
  Speaker 1: buck's likely to go to such and such place. Are
• 1:24:59
  Speaker 1: there any of those types of things that you either
• 1:25:03
  Speaker 1: believe are are very true and we should think about
• 1:25:05
  Speaker 1: or our myths. The buck up the hill and I
• 1:25:08
  Speaker 1: just dismissed because I've seen fatally hit deer goes straight
• 1:25:11
  Speaker 1: up the hill and die at the top of it,
• 1:25:13
  Speaker 1: one of the steepest hills you could possibly imagine. I've
• 1:25:15
  Speaker 1: seen gutshot deal go through hill and hollow and die
• 1:25:18
  Speaker 1: in the fifth one. I mean, it's back to the
• 1:25:20
  Speaker 1: anything as possible scenario when it comes to that type
• 1:25:23
  Speaker 1: of stuff. Um, you know, there there are some things
• 1:25:29
  Speaker 1: that I look for um when it comes to that,
• 1:25:33
  Speaker 1: but it's it's probably generally the further back you get
• 1:25:38
  Speaker 1: in the in the in the animal, and the longer
• 1:25:40
  Speaker 1: it takes them to die, the more likely they become.
• 1:25:44
  Speaker 1: In my opinion, the more the two things, they'll go
• 1:25:47
  Speaker 1: seek out really intense cover because they feel fairly vulnerable,
• 1:25:52
  Speaker 1: our water because they're thirsty, So I have a tendency
• 1:25:56
  Speaker 1: to hit that really really thick cover and those watering
• 1:25:59
  Speaker 1: watering holes. It's amazing how many deer you find by
• 1:26:02
  Speaker 1: a watering hole or a water source when they're fatally hit,
• 1:26:05
  Speaker 1: especially when the hit is back. Yeah, yeah, that's that
• 1:26:09
  Speaker 1: seems to be a consistent thing I've I've seen and
• 1:26:11
  Speaker 1: heard and look in the sky man, look for buzzers,
• 1:26:16
  Speaker 1: look for crows, look for birds, listen for birds. We
• 1:26:19
  Speaker 1: found a pile through the years, just you know, mother nature,
• 1:26:22
  Speaker 1: help help you find him. Uh, coyotes. You know, Terry
• 1:26:25
  Speaker 1: killed Dangerous Calling last year and he had a hit
• 1:26:28
  Speaker 1: that was back and low, and um, you know, we
• 1:26:31
  Speaker 1: we couldn't find the deer. We had rain hit washed
• 1:26:34
  Speaker 1: the blood trail away. We knew roughly where he went,
• 1:26:37
  Speaker 1: and um couldn't find him. And one of my you know,
• 1:26:40
  Speaker 1: my big grass patches on my warm season grasses. Those
• 1:26:42
  Speaker 1: things are miserable attracted by the way. And you know,
• 1:26:46
  Speaker 1: Wade and I were hunting, uh, not long after that,
• 1:26:50
  Speaker 1: when within a day or two or three whatever it was,
• 1:26:53
  Speaker 1: we hear coyotes open up over and then in the farm.
• 1:26:55
  Speaker 1: And I'm like, listen, that that's not far off from
• 1:26:57
  Speaker 1: where we were tracking Dangerous Calling. And now I'm telling
• 1:26:59
  Speaker 1: you we had gritted and stomped it out and looked,
• 1:27:02
  Speaker 1: and we could not find this deer. We gave it.
• 1:27:04
  Speaker 1: We gave it day's worth of efforts, all right effort,
• 1:27:07
  Speaker 1: and then we heard those coyouts in a little bit
• 1:27:09
  Speaker 1: different spot went there and there he laid. So sometimes,
• 1:27:12
  Speaker 1: as Terry said that night, mother nature giving back. Yeah,
• 1:27:15
  Speaker 1: it's it's nice when they lend a hand in that way. Yeah, unfortunately,
• 1:27:19
  Speaker 1: you know, we lost the meat of the deer. But
• 1:27:21
  Speaker 1: I mean we've never looked for a dear harder or
• 1:27:24
  Speaker 1: more thoroughly than we did for that dear it was.
• 1:27:27
  Speaker 1: It was days. Yeah, better to better to find it
• 1:27:30
  Speaker 1: in that situation than never at all. I guess absolutely,
• 1:27:34
  Speaker 1: you know, absolutely you owe it to the deer to
• 1:27:36
  Speaker 1: give it all you got. And if you do and
• 1:27:37
  Speaker 1: you fail, then sometimes you just you chalk it up
• 1:27:40
  Speaker 1: to experience and you you try to make a better
• 1:27:42
  Speaker 1: shot the following time. Yeah, let and learn live and
• 1:27:45
  Speaker 1: learn what life's about about the time you know it
• 1:27:48
  Speaker 1: always you know you're gonna pass away. Yeah that's the truth.
• 1:27:52
  Speaker 1: And what well of age or so wise man, they've
• 1:27:55
  Speaker 1: done it, see it? And I guess speaking of wisdom, Um,
• 1:28:00
  Speaker 1: this has been another one of those conversations you never
• 1:28:03
  Speaker 1: failed to uh to be very very helpful. Mark this
• 1:28:06
  Speaker 1: is Uh, we're gonna have to wrap it up because
• 1:28:07
  Speaker 1: because both of us are over time here a little bit.
• 1:28:09
  Speaker 1: But man, really interesting, really helpful. So so thank you,
• 1:28:14
  Speaker 1: oh man, thank you. I appreciate it, Mark and hope
• 1:28:17
  Speaker 1: everybody has a great fall this year. Check out deer Cast.
• 1:28:20
  Speaker 1: Check out deercast Track, and we also added in there
• 1:28:23
  Speaker 1: this year in the elite version, UH, deer cast custom
• 1:28:26
  Speaker 1: and allows you to take our algorithm customize it to
• 1:28:28
  Speaker 1: your farm. You know, if you feel like we're a
• 1:28:30
  Speaker 1: little too optimistic, you can town it back. If you
• 1:28:32
  Speaker 1: feel like we're not optimistic enough, you can crank it
• 1:28:35
  Speaker 1: up a little bit, you know, so we can you
• 1:28:36
  Speaker 1: can customize our algorithm. And this year, for the first year,
• 1:28:40
  Speaker 1: we're going into a pay model. Last year it was
• 1:28:42
  Speaker 1: free throughout the whole year. We had over five hundred
• 1:28:45
  Speaker 1: fifty thousand people download the app, and uh, this year
• 1:28:48
  Speaker 1: we've got it. We've still got a free version, we
• 1:28:49
  Speaker 1: got a pro model at annual fee, one time fee,
• 1:28:54
  Speaker 1: or we've got the Elite version which has track and
• 1:28:56
  Speaker 1: custom in the in the ten day forecast and that's
• 1:28:58
  Speaker 1: uh nineteen nine a nine, So everybody check it out.
• 1:29:01
  Speaker 1: The other thing that often goes unset about deer Cast.
• 1:29:05
  Speaker 1: We do an article a day and there there's over
• 1:29:07
  Speaker 1: four hundred articles in Deercast right now, and you know,
• 1:29:10
  Speaker 1: by this time next year we'll be over seven hundred.
• 1:29:13
  Speaker 1: So it's like a little app magazine and it's it's
• 1:29:16
  Speaker 1: literally loaded with content inside those articles. We've got a
• 1:29:19
  Speaker 1: staff of of like thirteen or fourteen writers that do
• 1:29:22
  Speaker 1: a phenomenal job. So everybody check it out and hopefully
• 1:29:25
  Speaker 1: they enjoy the stuff we're putting in Deercast. Yeah, it's
• 1:29:28
  Speaker 1: some some really high quality stuff. I can attest to that.
• 1:29:31
  Speaker 1: And and what what general timeframe or when should people
• 1:29:34
  Speaker 1: expect to be able to access this new stuff. You know,
• 1:29:37
  Speaker 1: we're soft launching here in early August, so by mid
• 1:29:41
  Speaker 1: August hard launch it'll be out and you know, certainly
• 1:29:44
  Speaker 1: in time for when the first season's open up out
• 1:29:46
  Speaker 1: West and it's uh, she's gonna be rolling heavy by
• 1:29:49
  Speaker 1: by late August. But but here anytime, you know, mid August,
• 1:29:52
  Speaker 1: it's ready. Awesome. Well, I for one, I'm excited to
• 1:29:56
  Speaker 1: put it to work. So thanks for this chat, and
• 1:29:58
  Speaker 1: thanks for putting all this helpful content out there for everybody.
• 1:30:02
  Speaker 1: Oh Man, appreciate you Mark, thank you so much for
• 1:30:04
  Speaker 1: having me on. I always enjoy visiting with you me too,
• 1:30:07
  Speaker 1: and that is a rap. I hope you enjoyed this
• 1:30:10
  Speaker 1: one as much as I did. Like I said at
• 1:30:12
  Speaker 1: the top, I knew this one was gonna be fascinating.
• 1:30:15
  Speaker 1: I definitely found it to be. So I'm glad we
• 1:30:17
  Speaker 1: got to share this with all of you, and hopefully
• 1:30:19
  Speaker 1: all of us will be able to put this advice
• 1:30:21
  Speaker 1: to get use in the coming weeks and months as
• 1:30:23
  Speaker 1: they're hunting seasons kick off. I certainly hope I've got
• 1:30:26
  Speaker 1: a couple opportunities to work on perfecting my my moment
• 1:30:31
  Speaker 1: of truth process and my recoveries. So until then, thank
• 1:30:36
  Speaker 1: you for listening, and stay wired to hunt.