Latest / REALLY JEWISH with Oliver Joseph / REALLY JEWISH SE2:E5 - Turning the tables – Alon in the hot seat
Transcript
- Alon Ben Joseph: Hi and hello watch fans and welcome back to the real-time show. wait, sorry, wrong podcast. Hi everyone, welcome to Really Jewish. A new voice if you're listening in your ears, or a new face if you're looking on web, and a video of this amazing podcast. I have the honor to take the hot seat from Rabbi Oliver Joseph and to get in our studio today. Two of my favorite guests, Yair Eldan and Oliver Joseph. Welcome, gentlemen. Oliver Joseph: So good to be here. Thanks for doing this. Yair Eldan: Thank you, Anon. Alon Ben Joseph: Shalom Alekham Shanah tova. We're now just after all the holidays. I binged the episodes of season two. I'm a great fan, love this show. I had the honor to be here because this was meant as a season finale for season one. But Oliver is flowing with creativity. He pumped out so many episodes. Kavod to you, ha’rav Oliver. I'm really impressed. I love the show. I have to admit, I'm lagging on season one because I zigzag through episodes. Some listeners might do everything chronologically. If you're new to this podcast, I will now be less rebellious and go back to the script. Because Oliver is very professional as a podcast host, but also as a rabbi and as a friend. this podcast is amazing because it touches upon all aspects of Judaism, even if you're not Jewish. So I encourage you if you if you landed here for the first time, please stick with us today. Today, this season finale was meant to put the two hosts on the guests seat. And this is an episode is about the why. Why is this episode or this podcast even here? So going back to the script. Welcome. Really Jewish is a conversation about being Jewish, about Judaism. If you're back and you know this episode, like this podcast, welcome back. And if you're here for the first time, Bruchim Ha'Bai'im we're delighted to have you. We had a little short break over Sukkot, me as a listener, Oliver and Yair as hosts. And we're back with a bang. My name is Alon Ben-Joseph I'm standing in, as I said here, for Rabbi Oliver as the host for this week only. So don't worry. If I annoy you, I won't be back. I am born and raised in Amsterdam. I lived a year in London where I met Natalie and Oliver and their amazing three kids. Our kids were in the same school, became friends. The dear wives became friends. Oliver and I became friends, and we actually do double dates. So it's a triple layered friendship, which is actually the highlight of my living a year. Well, it was a bit less than a year. In London, we hung out in Israel, not yet in Amsterdam. I'm proud and honoured to have Rabbi Oliver as a friend. And I'm proud and honored to be here. Yair We haven't met in person, but I've had you many times in my ears cause I digest this amazing podcast as audio only. And compliments to you. I love your input, your feedback, your philosophy, and how you share openly. My favorite episode was actually the first of season two about the Neder and bli neder and how you guys jam and philosophize. I'm very much looking forward to this episode. The Really Jewish Project is one where we think about big topics that shape the Jewish world, but also is a personal examination of who we are, how we are personally affected by how we live our Jewish lives. This week is turning the tables on the two hosts, and I'm taking over. And I want to talk today about why you started this podcast, how it's been. First season, and we're already into season two. And where do you gentlemen want to take this podcast? And I very much encourage our dear listeners and viewers to send more feedback because I know, Oliver, you're getting a lot of feedback, which I'm very happy about. I am a part of your online learning group, so some of them are listeners as well. So I digest the feedback live sometimes during a shiur’im our lessons. So Please stay with us, join us for the next leg, and please give us feedback. The mic is here to you, Oliver and Yair if you wanna jump in before I do the first question. Oliver Joseph: I just want to say thank you for doing this. This is fun. It's nice to be a bit more hot and hot and not in the hot seat because I have no idea where you're going. But let's do this. Alon Ben Joseph: Yeah, he is nodding his head. So, very simple. I said we're going to digest the why. Why did you guys start this podcast? So, but before we do so, tell me how it has been. Did it surpass your expectations, match your expectations, or was it harder than you thought? Both of you Oliver first, then Yair Oliver Joseph: I think, listen, I love this project. With most of my work life, I'm like always in two places. So from one day, I'm like full power. This is amazing. I love it. And then the next day is like, I just want to put this project to one side and be done. Save me. But the Really Jewish podcast, I believe in it. And I love the opportunity of learning. Ultimately, think particularly as a rabbi and the kind of work that I do, I could live a life and I could certainly say in the first few years of being a rabbi, it's been more than 10 years now, I think I had a rabbinical career which is somewhat devoid of actual serious learning. And there's something about these opportunities of the religious broadcast and the Lechtecha series when I teach and other places where I teach, where I teach much more frequently. where I'm like pushed to prepare, I'm pushed to learn, I'm pushed to really think about what I think. I think in a weekly podcast that doesn't always come off. And if I did any repentance over the chaggim, it's when I haven't prepared enough on a topic, that's always a struggle when you're driving things forward on a weekly basis. But in the main, when I'm stretched by a project, I feel good. because I'm moving forward in my life in my career as a rabbi, spiritually, personally, and that's the real drive of this podcast, I get to learn with really cool people that I wouldn't otherwise have deepening conversations with. And in my with Yair they say I think we might mention this podcast. Barzel had Barzel, like the iron sharpens iron the image of Havruta is somebody in your life who really sharpens you. And Yair has always been that person for, I think, 15 years or more. But we used to do it sporadically, like a beer on Rehov Aza in Jerusalem, occasionally lots of voice, WhatsApp messages backwards and forwards, voice notes. But it was sporadic. And now in the last six months, it's been much more regular. And that sharpening is... sharpened me and it's I have to have to say it's October 7th today when we're recording the week before we launch this episode and some of that sharpening is is through the turmoil and the tumult the struggle of these quite dark years in the UK Jewish community and in the world Jewish community more generally and I rely on my Havrutot I rely on my colleagues, my friends, you, Alon, you, Yair, in particular, in the studio for some of that emotional, spiritual, religious processing. in that sense, me'al zeh it's been a good experience when I look back. We always idealise when we look back. But it's been good six months of learning and of this project. Yair Eldan: Yeah, I agree. Alon you doubted my secularity. I have to I have to react. I mean but in a way that will surprise you I think. I mean For me, when when Oliver approached me and now I understand it was you, it was you that actually driven him to actually materialize his wish, will and fantasy and we just talked about Oliver, we talked about our new year resolutions and I think when I think back, how you initiated it and for me there is something about it that is I don't know how to call it. It's synchronized. of the world. I mean it's something that is out of this world because it came to me as a thing that I needed and I'm very much was surprised how much it was it became meaningful for me just to sit down once a week And if I can actually open brackets here to say that it was too much for me, and I agree, every week to sit and to actually think about Judaism, meaning i.e. to take a step backwards and look at it from the outside in a way for me, is is not an easy task. and you have to actually know, adjust yourself to the medium. and the medium is not an easy one. I want to say something about it, but but for me there is something religious about this request from Oliver in my participation in it. And having said that Alon, I'm just saying secularity is not for me a I mean against spirituality. Spirituality and secularity are together and I see that you understand what I mean. Yeah there is that there are a lot of spiritual moments in my life and actually last week I went with my in Sukkot I went with my kids 15 minutes from here we went to the old city and we went to the Knesyata Kevil. what's what's the English version for Kenisyiat ha’Kever no to the Alon Ben Joseph: To the graveyard you mean? To the Yair Eldan: Jesus Jesus' place of burial the church of where according to tradition jesus was buried and we Oliver Joseph: The Church of the Holy Sepulcher. Yair Eldan: exactly. Thank you. and it was a spiritual moment for me, not because it was religious, because I saw people from so many different backgrounds trying to deal with you know the uncertainty of life in a way that is not violent. And it's a very gentle way, a very beautiful way. And actually as I think you know, this church is actually is a reflection of a lot of conflicts that are actually being surprisingly held together and not being deteriorating most of the time to violence. And then we went to the Kotel, to the Western Wall. And I mean I'm secular, but but there is something about this podcast that is part of my spirituality. just to say another thing that is connected to your professionality Alon, for me going into the world of podcast, it's still not an easy natural thing. but it's it's there is something about it that is very very interesting and it makes me think differently. It I am I have to commit myself to a different kind of thinking and it challenges me. So I'm thankful for that as well. Alon Ben Joseph: I want a shotgun answer from you two gentlemen. Just yes or no. Is it therapeutic for you, Oliver? Yes or no? Oliver Joseph: Yeah, it's definitely therapeutic. Yair Eldan: Sure, Alon Ben Joseph: Yeah. Yair Eldan: no doubt about it. Alon Ben Joseph: Disclaimer on my end, I was egging on Yair, pushing his buttons. When Oliver and I were brainstorming by podcasts, I said, I want you to do a podcast, I want to hear you and what theme he should have done or should do. And I said, Don't be one that does shiur’im and just reiterates and re-gurgitates old Drashot on a podcast. Don't do shiur’im online. you are philosophical, you're intellectual, and you think outside the box. I would love to hear that as a consumer on a podcast. So he digested, he says, I I want to do it with Yair. He didn't give me too much info. He says, I want my topic is what is the definition of being Jewish? I love that. And he says, My co-host is secular, I'm a rabbi, and it's gonna be heads budding, but. As a consumer, I started digesting the podcast and there was no head butting. So initially I was disappointed. Yeah, in air quotes. And that's where my joke comes from, yeah, that you are not secular. I hoped you were an atheist that was anti-religious, and you guys would have such fierce discussion, but you're always in concurrence and it's very lovey, dovey. Oliver Joseph: Ask him what he does and he Yom Kippur Alon Ben Joseph: you eat pork. Yair Eldan: I think yeah, not not this Yom Kippur parti in particular, but I think you exaggerate. I mean I agree that Oliver and I are both you know I mean not in a bad way, nice people. so we don't disagree in a very harsh way, but we do live different lives Alon Ben Joseph: but it's lovely. I I love the fact that you two are long time friends. You have a deep relationship and and it's very philosophical, so I'm very happy about that. I am not a professional podcaster because that's not my career. I started as a passion project about watches with a friend of mine, and that radiates in the ears when people listen or on camera when you watch a podcast. And that's what I love about the podcast you two gentlemen do. A question for the listeners and viewers. Please send them to Oliver or whatever means you interact with this podcast or in the comments is let them know if you want, like me, to have more fierce debates. Do you want these two gentlemen to pose a hypothesis and clash or agree on that hypothesis? So, so this is an assignment to you, dear listener and viewers. Gentlemen, you both gave me a very long answer to two questions that I blurred. So I want a short answer. Oliver, why did you start this podcast? Because you wanted more of an intellectual challenge and or did you just want to have a weekly catch up with your dear friend Yair? Or is there another reason? Give me a short answer about the why. Oliver Joseph: The why is very simple. I'm a digester of podcasts. There's like three or four that I regularly listen to. I'm broadly like very fussy in the same way when I go into the kitchen and I want to eat a nice meal, I'm very particular about what I want to eat. And in the consuming of podcasts, I'm very, very particular. I listen to lots of podcasts. A lot of them are politically oriented. I wanted something about Judaism that was not political trying to understand like where the Jewish people are going in the politics of the day. Cause there's There's hundreds of podcasts out there, particularly at the moment, talking about that. I wanted to ask, I wanted a podcast that was more internally reflective, asking about what is Judaism that then can guide us forward. And that was really important. If I saw a mirror effect of another podcast, another voice out there that was saying what I wanted to talk about and what I wanted to hear, then I wouldn't have started this. there seems to be kind of a gaping hole in the kind of conversation I wanted to have about what Judaism is. And that's why. Alon Ben Joseph: Yeah yeah? Yair Eldan: I yeah, I needed for sure I needed last year after two years after October seventh, I really needed to speak to someone outside outside Israel. I still feel that our discussion here about everything, not only about Judaism is has has an echo of what happened and people are so immersed in our being that I needed some kind of a perspective from the outside and also I needed a personal sensitive counterpart and when oliver came with his suggestion it was perfect for me. Just perfect. Alon Ben Joseph: Second part of my question, and which is actually question two, is how now that you've hit the road and you've had some miles, how are the results, the feedbacks, the downloads, the listeners, response from friends, family, people you've never met? Now that you've started, well give me some feedback and your own experience as well. Are you happy with doing it? Does it cost you a lot of energy? Does it give you energy? Oliver. Oliver Joseph: I get loads of lovely feedback and often in surprising places. So the most common is I saw you online and I saw a clip and it was cool. And then like, you got to listen to the, you got to listen to the podcast then. And then often online, I get like really disgusting things, which is why I'm always encouraging people to offer feedback and send feedback in. Because if you look at most of the comments on TikTok, Facebook, Instagram, YouTube, they're really like, you know, from the kind of neutral negative to the really like hardcore not necessarily violent but verging on violent feedback. Alon Ben Joseph: Give me a few, give me a few. Don't don't talk abstract. Give me a very positive, a very hard one. Give give us raw. Oliver Joseph: That's a hard part of the job. Listen, I get loads of comments, but 97 % of them are negative, the ones that come in online. I'll give a couple of examples. I was talking to Michel Dardashti, Rabbi Michel Dardashti, the other week, and she's talking about global Judaism, which is a really beautiful image of coming from Iran, where her family comes from. Her dad, her grandfather was one of the primary singers in Iran, and the comment says, She's talking about global Judaism. She's talking about a sense of like really unifying all the different aspects of Jewish life in her own rabbinate in the way that she teaches and the way that she is a rabbi and somebody wrote global meaning Everywhere they go are exclusive. A lot of them are written in like pretty bad English people are just Like firing them out racist and treating locals like they're inferior obsessed with racial purity and subjugating others it goes it goes on the interesting thing is like I'm talking it's not that it's not the headline of the podcast there, but we're talking about a family that ultimately were chucked out of Iran and made a life in this context in the States and the kind of the warped kind of version of that in relation to how Jews perceive themselves. I'm imagining somebody who's not Jewish who's writing it is just totally upside down. Other example is when Vadim Avshalumov of my close friend in Detroit came on. He's talking about his own life also as somebody who left two countries, they were in Azerbaijan and then they left Israel also to come to the States. He says, it's always only about them. The comment says it's always only about them. What other demographic does this? it's a really Jewish podcast. We're talking about our own experience of the world. I don't know. I don't know what to say to people. The other one is Alex Stein Most of the comments are free Palestine or like stop killing people or have you thought about the genocide? Something like brief and like that. That's most of the comments that we get. Alex Stein, we're actually a friend of Jerusalem also, we're actually talking about Israel. One of the only podcasts I've done in season one, we're actually talking about Israel. We're trying to talk about if the people are indigenous, we're talking about, what's the word? When you dig stuff up, archeology. Somebody writes on Alex stein clips on one of the channels. There is no such thing as Israel. It's made up and built on the blood of the innocent. And then somebody else wrote, we're talking about whether the people as indigenous or not indigenous stock as apparently it's a terrible Italian word, meaning this shit. So listen, online, if I only read my online comments, this is not new to people. It's a cesspool. There's loads of really tough things to hear. The one-on-one messages, the most, the place where I get positive feedback is, heard you, listened, I really enjoyed, I enjoyed this podcast, I was really interested by this. It's a tough world out there, but I need a podcast which proudly states who we are and attempts to get into some of the complexity of the day in an honest and a real way. That's the attempt. seemingly for lots of people. online, but mostly by way of the clips. know, my response to these clip, my response to these comments is always to respond now in recent times, until we say, go and listen to the podcast, because that's kind of the point like getting to the complexity of the conversation, rather than just bashing the clip, because you don't like the initial words, and maybe one in 100 person does that and maybe learn something about what Judaism is actually about. Alon Ben Joseph: I know that you gentlemen started this without an agenda. There is no commercial motive. There is no marketing motive. Yeah, Oliver, you as a rabbi need to be the light in the dark. And what I loved about this podcast is that it's inclusive and it's not just for Jewish people, whatever the definition is of being Jewish, hence the title, if your first time listening to this podcast. I love the fact that's the case. Do you have an example of a non-Jewish person or a Jewish person or somebody who felt Jewish? that you were the light in the dark for them or you added something to their lives because of this podcast. Oliver Joseph: Listen, people aren't so gushy, I've had a lot of, you know, I've listened to every single episode or like I really, I love listening to Rabbi Joel or I love what Yair said about his own identity in Jerusalem. Like people who are clearly stating just an identification with the journey and the process and are able to say that loudly and clearly. Those are the highlights of people who are listening and intrigued. you know, really want, know, which one should I listen to next? I got a message the other day from a colleague. She works in, she does classes for babies. And she was like, where should I start? Like, which are the three or four episodes that I should start with? I sent them the one with Yair and I did about the new year and the Darim about vows. as an example, like, you know, where can I start? I'm interested to hear the voice that's present. Alon Ben Joseph: Yeah here, I know you start this whole podcast as a favor to your buddy Oliver. You hate social media. You left Facebook a decade ago. Yair Eldan: He's trying to he's trying to get us the angry one another, right? Alon is Alon Ben Joseph: No, that's for a future episode. Today we're for this episode Oliver Joseph: Fired Fired up. Alon Ben Joseph: we're l keeping it lovey dovey. That is for future. Yair Eldan: Alon alone I'm not I'm not threatening your friendship with Oliver. Don't worry about it. Threatened Alon Ben Joseph: I'm definitely not afraid and I'm humbled to be in this commune of friends. Yair all kidding aside, you wanted to hang out with your buddy, have philosophical discussions which you guys used to do physically over a beer or over WhatsApp. You being anti-social media, if I may say so, this was a big step for you to put your face to the camera and your voice to the mic and do this on a regular basis, which you call a religious a ceremony almost a dogma. How has it been and are you enjoying it and what has it given you? Yair Eldan: Listen, y you're totally right. I mean, I I want to just justify my stance. I mean, I'm a writer and as a writer I feel that being In the margins of the social arena, whether it's the actual social arena or the social media arena, is crucial for my writing. I need to be in a place where I can watch from a side, be inside, but also from the outside. Not such as an anthropological approach, but as a as an approach of a of a person who wants to have a reflection. all the time and I do believe then when I write a poem or I write a short story or a an essay or a novel I say something about my life that could be of value for people outside out there and social media for me is is actually can actually hurt or damage this point of view so I refrain and you're right, it was very hard for me to go into it. thank you for actually noticing it. Yeah, it's not an easy task for me. And actually for Oliver, when I think about it, I didn't I did apologize, but I do it from the bottom of my heart. He was in charge of everything that was connected to the social media because I just couldn't and I'm not proud of it. It's just what I am. And so for me alone if you push me to the corner, I would say for me this postcast is the podcast is like writing in a way. I try to erase everything else and just be with you, with Oliver and talk about the things that I'm I find interesting and and hopefully people will find an interest with it and within it and there is something morally problematic with it. I agree because I am part of something that I don't distaste. I just can't be part of it. Just to hear, Oliver, just to hear the reactions that you got makes me makes me I'm troubled and I could be even shocked if I would be exposed to it in my own eyes and I actually I don't think I can handle it when you think about it all the bad wind that is part of social media. so I also I'm grateful for that as well. I feel that I get responses only from my family because I don't talk about the podcast and obviously they're not objective. So I'm in my world and I just you know I hope that my message will get through. But but even if not, I'm just happy with what I have here. Here now here and now. Oliver Joseph: When Yair gets stopped on the streets of Jerusalem, I'll know that the Really Jewish podcast has really made it. We're making inroads in India and China and Japan and the States, certainly in Israel, certainly, and Holland and Sweden, all of the places that we have in some places, an odd number of listeners, but people seem to be listening. So, but when somebody knocks on Yair's shoulder in the shook, then we know that we're, we know whether we're there. Yair Eldan: Exactly. Right. Alon Ben Joseph: I loved this episode because I always want to know the backgrounds of hosts. So that's why I wanted to flip the table on you guys. So Yair, what do you do besides an hour podcast a week? Well how does your daily life look like? You just mentioned you're a writer. We've heard on the podcast that you are a professor of law in Yerushalaim, I believe. So what else do you do besides podcasting? Yair Eldan: Listen, first of all and foremost I mean I'm trying not to sound banal but Oliver and I has you know, we have an agreement I think about it. Parenthood is a very big part of my life and when I was twenty five I wouldn't say that I would be say I mean I would be in this, you know, position of an artist who says, No, family, kids it's you know, that's What ordinary people do. No, parenthood is a big part of my life. I have six kids, three kids from my first marriage, and three little ones from my second, and it occupies a lot of my day. I teach law at the Ono Academic College, which has a campus in Ono Kiriat Ono and Jerusalem, and I'm just finishing a very intensive semester, summer semester, where I taught Jewish law as secular alone it's actually very interesting. I mean there are not a lot of law lecturers who are secular and teach Jewish law. So I do that from my point of view to law students in Israel and I teach also jurisprudence and and I have this course about religion and conflict management where I examine text from the Jewish canon who actually embedded embeds conflicts in them and I try to examine the conflicts and how the canon and the commentary over the years see them so I deal with a lot of conflicts from the Bible and conflicts from the Tanaik period and conflicts from the even medieval ages and also from the also about Shabattite Tzvi which is 17th century so I I have this intellectual part of my life, and I also write. I just finished an essay about recognition, about the fact that we have this excessive inflation of recognition in our society where people need recognition and it's not enough because there is an inflation, so the value of recognition is going down and down. Alon Ben Joseph: That's the real reason we're doing this podcast for the recognition that we want. We want to be recognized, we want to be heard. Yair Eldan: Exactly, exactly. It's part of it. It's part of it. I can't I mean I acknowledge it in myself. We need it as human beings. but there is a connection between this inflation in Israel in particular, to the fact that we can't acknowledge the fact that we are we were defeated. We were defeated in October 7th. We actually did a lot from then, we went to victories. Partial victory, we're still there, but we were defeated and people in Israel are they're it's hard for them to actually embrace that and I think it's a very very important notion because from this notion you can actually move forward and and correct things. So I wrote about that as well. So I have this part, parenthood, obviously I am also I have a partner, Hadasa and that's also a big part of my life. It's family, my intellectual stuff and my literary stuff and one last thing, my journey in life, if you will ask me one of the narratives of my journey is to make connections between these all parts of my life to make it more in harmony in myself but also in my creation in my world that everything will come together. Alon Ben Joseph: I love it. Thank you for sharing that. You spoke about article you published. Where can we, the listeners of this podcast, find that? Yair Eldan: It's still in review, but a lot of my writings are I have a website, yaireldan.com, and I have my you know, my page in academia. so everybody is invited to see what I wrote. I wrote a lot in Hebrew, not a lot in English, but one of my books is going to go out in English. a book I wrote with a psychologist in Amazon soon. Since I saw you la since I last saw you. It's about a relationship between therapist and a patient, in the boundaries, the cross boundaries between them. Alon Ben Joseph: If you are listening and you're on the go, it's Y A I R E-L-D-A-N.com. There's a Hebrew section. Click on English for the English section. Thank you because I couldn't find you on LinkedIn. So I'm happy you shared that. Thank you, Yair. Oliver. People have a notion or belief they know what a rabbi does. But when we start hanging out. I asked what kind of rabbi are you? Where did you get your smikha? And I said, What the hell do you actually do all day? Are you linked to a synagogue? So for our listeners, what does your week look like? And what do you actually do for a career besides honor? You don't even like to be called a rabbi, but you are. So tell our dear listeners that don't know you what do you do actually besides podcasting? Oliver Joseph: I'm very happy to be called Rabbi, but I also exist in lots of worlds where the title Rabbi isn't necessarily the first thing that I talk to. So I was talking to my mother-in-law last week and she says, what you do when you go to Canary Wharf? And I said, I just drink lots and lots of cups of coffee, which is kind of for me a good summation of what a Rabbi is. Not necessarily coffee, but it could also be tea. But I spend a lot of time talking to people. So in part, the conversation I described with Yair is one of maybe tens of conversations in a week and certainly hundreds of conversations in a year. one of that, part of that work has taken me to a place called Canary Wharf, which is a large business estate in the centre of London. I'm the Canary Wharf, part of the Canary Wharf Multifaith Chaplaincy team, and I'm the Rabbi and the Jewish Chaplain there. And that partly involves lots of one-on-one conversations with people. And, you know, those were some of the seeds that were sown for this podcast because I'd have loads and loads of conversations, many of which overlapped in part about the Jewish experience of working in the business world, of being in the UK, of being in Europe. also, my second job is I work for the European Masulty B'Tin. I'm the operating director for the B'Tin. So I organise everything that the B'Tin does from year to year, everywhere from the Ukraine to the UK, mostly in the area of conversion. So people converting to Judaism, but in part, it's communal support. So I have lots of conversations with people also from across Europe. And, you know, the, lot of the experience maps on, there's lots of commonality between the Jewish experience in the UK and Europe and what Jewish people are living through and working through at this time. Those are two of the primary jobs that I do. I'm also just as this podcast is launched, launching a new project, which is called Global Workforce Chaplaincy, which is going to take. the model of chaplaincy, the model of multi-faith chaplaincy out into the UK and God willing to the rest of Europe, where we will be like mobile and hybrid online teams of chaplains, Jewish, Christian, Muslim, Hindu chaplains going out to offer support in the workplace for all of the faiths who, particularly at this time, people of faith in the broad sense are struggling. There's lots of things in the world outside that don't map on to our experience and understanding of our own faith that we see either as representations of our own faiths or of others in the outside world. And that's emotionally and spiritually jarring, difficult to interact with when the sense of our internal sense of spirit is so much at odds with the image of our own community that we see on the outside or the image of other religious and faith communities that we see on the outside. So that's really part of my work and part of my passion is to kind of support those people and also have voices out there of of moderation and complexity and a desire to really investigate some of what it is to be people of faith. Alon Ben Joseph: You also have a website oliverspike joseph.com O L I V E R S P I K E J O S E P H dot com Oliver as a rabbi can listeners of the podcast contact you directly, either to learn with you, book a time to talk with you, talk. chuppah weddings or any other rabbi services because on your website you offer spiritual co counseling. Talk a little bit about that as well please. Oliver Joseph: Yeah, listen, people can be in contact with us for whatever with me specifically, as the primary host of the podcast. In the main part, I'm happy to hear from people. People can be in contact. I offer spiritual counseling. I certainly do weddings, at least more than a dozen in a year or 10 or so in the year. And people are welcome to be in contact. In particular, I'm interested in people's spiritual journey. And anybody who wants to financially support the Religious Podcast so we can carry on doing what we're doing. But anything else and specifically feedback on the podcast and how we might work together my part of my career and the for the last five years, I'm an entrepreneurial rabbi, I'm kind of running projects at the same time as hopefully providing some spiritual welfare and spiritual support for people. So you're welcome to contact about whatever Alon Ben Joseph: That that might be very clear cut for people that have a very, very active Jewish life. But imagine our listeners are less active in the Jewish world. What does that mean? And to physicality, you're in London now, but I know you jet around the world for Jewish wedding Chuppot Talk a little bit about that. you you are international, you speak multiple languages, you can do online. Chuppah can't be done online yet, I think. but go deeper. Tell us what it literally means because you fly a lot around the world. Oliver Joseph: so I'm going to be in Stockholm and a couple of weeks in November for the Limwood, conference, is, broadly a model that's been exported to most of the Jewish communities around the world, if not all. So I'm a teacher in lots of places, often in the States, often in Israel, and often in many of our European communities. Listen, I, like telling the story of my own rabbinets. I like telling, I like speaking to communities and giving, you know, A part the experience of any singular Jewish community is that the global experience of that community tends to be somewhat singular because they depend on a rabbi and they depend on the people in the community. And a part of the mode or the model of really Jewish and some of the work that I do is like zooming out and looking at the picture of Jewish community in a more global sense. if I'm working, for example, with couples that are largely secular or if I'm do spiritual counseling with somebody or just a coffee with somebody outside the community or in the periphery of the of the Jewish community. I am do the work that I do because I'm a chameleon. I live a pretty from life, pretty religious life. But I feel like because I came from a very, not very, but largely secular background. And because my family and community is so diverse from the people that don't really do anything in terms of Jewish practice to some very, very from people who we're friends with, very religious, Jewish religious people that we're friends with and people from outside the Jewish community. I just, feel like, you know, if you're, if you're asking, cause you are the rabbi that I've been given is to try and connect. with all those different corners of the world and somehow bring them together. There's know, the Me’or Eynaiim talks about Yichud the connection and the oneness that comes at the end of Sukkot. Shmini Atzeret and Simchat Torah The last festivals of the season. That somehow we're supposed to feel a oneness. I can't tell you what that oneness is, but I do believe that we're stronger when we try to hold together. When the person comes and says to me, you're a terrible person because you're Jewish. Okay, fine. That's to be decided. don't have, don't hold that information whether I'm a good or a terrible person. But I can tell you, I want you to come in. I want you to understand what my Judaism is. Because I definitely don't think it's what you think my Judaism is. I want you to come in and have the conversation. And that's what spiritual counseling is. That's what the journey is. If you're talking about working with me. as a rabbi towards getting married. That's what community life is. It's like trying to draw people in and have a conversation which is more complex and diverse than maybe what you hear in your own community. Maybe we hear in your own family. Maybe what you hear in your corner of the world. That's the problem of today. If we're solution to problems is that we live in these echo chamber boxes of our own existence, similar to what Yair was describing about living in Israel at this moment or his corner of Israel. And the opportunity and the opportunity of the podcast, the opportunities of my work is to try and bring the different voices together and hear other people in honest ways talk about their own experience. Alon Ben Joseph: You offer online group learning sessions, shiur’im, lilmod If a listener has the need, like I had in different phases of my life, to do shiur’im I did group physically in Amsterdam. I did one-on-one sessions with rabbis. Could people that have that need contact you to have private shoe room physically or online with you? Do you offer that paid service? Oliver Joseph: Yeah, sure, happy to discuss. I definitely have done that in the past. Alon Ben Joseph: Yeah, but I cause I've never asked it, so it listening to that question popped into my head. switching to you, dear Yair, you proudly call yourself a secular Jew, but listening to you season one and going into season two, you constantly state you're both very traditional spiritual. You see, I'm coughing we I'm for the listeners of this podcast, if they would want to connect more to a Jewish life, what would you advise them? Yair Eldan: Listen, I I remember Rabbi David Hartman came into into our class, eleventh grade. He passed away a few years. he was very dear to me. I think this story tells a lot about him. we were talking about the conflict that could arise w between religion and morality. Like imagine A Kohen is in love with a divorced woman and according to Halacha, as you know, he can't marry her. what should he do? I should he I and David Hartman said to us, and I can't forget it, he said, I can't give you an advice. It depends. I mean So the same I think goes here because Judaism is such a vast world because it's not only a religion, it's also, you know, a nation. And we have this duplicity. And so we have everything. And for me as an example, I'm not a person of rituals. I like to watch them. And we are now in October 7th and there are a lot of rituals going on and the ceremonies and rituals and you understand that for me to be in a in in such a ceremony or a ritual is a very difficult thing because I'm very much to myself. But I love them. I love to watch them and to see how people connect it within them. And so for me, Judaism means a Huge portion of it is means going back to the text, learning the text. I think for you as well, no Alon. I mean you know, going back to the text, the text are so powerful for me and after the you know the second temple was destructed, obviously it was a main road for you know you know worshipping God and being Jewish. That's why I don't like the fact that women are exempt from Talmut tora because it's a huge auto-strad. I mean it's a huge road for being Jewish being part of Jewish community and so for me that's was going on but everyone could find something because it's a civilization as said it's everything Judaism is everything there is something for everyone so just if I mean for me One of the things that is, you know, crucial for being Jewish, for conversion, is the fact that the person wants to connect. I mean and I think Oliver won't agree with me. I mean you will talk about the process of conversion and but the essence is the willingness to be part of Jewish, you know Judaism, which means could mean being part of the Jewish people, could mean being part of worshiping the Israelite God, could be part of, doing mitzvot. you can take it everywhere, but the willingness, if a person is really, really want to be part of Judaism, for me, that's the main crucial thing. And that's why for me, the fact that Russian soldiers, which are not Jewish according to Halachah and they get k*lled in the battle in Israel, they are not buried in a in a Jewish cemetery. I mean they're buried. For me it's kind of crazy. I mean Alon Ben Joseph: I think we have a lot of episodes here and a lot of hypotheses to dissect here and cross swords on. I have a zillion more questions, but talking about mitzvot and rabbinical duties and shiur’im Oliver needs to scoot off to give a shore, which he's running late for, so we are making him late for his own shore. So I apologize. I thank you both, you gentlemen, for sitting down with me. If you dear listeners want to have a part two of this. QA where me or somebody else is a host and puts these two hosts on the guest seat at the end of season two. Please send a message to Oliver. Gentlemen, thank you so much for sitting down and being good guests and listening to me. whereas normally I'm listening to you. Thank you, dear listener, for listening to the Really Jewish podcast. We hope you got something out of being here. And thanks for your support. Thanks to Sophia Kogan for editing, producing these clips on TikTok, YouTube, Instagram, and Facebook. Thank you to Oi va voy for the new musical edition to this podcast. You can find their single Back to My Roots on all streaming platforms, which I'm going to do by the way. Interesting. Thanks for being here with us today. Make sure to listen to all the other Episodes that are live on your favorite podcast platform where you digest all these podcasts. Please do help this podcast. Very important. Subscribe to the channel, comment, and do a mitzvah. Just one today. Share this podcast with at least one family member or friend. You'll help out Yaia and Oliver tremendously. And obviously feel free. To get some bashing, daily bashing, share it on your socials. Why not? You'll call it genocide, an apartheid, whatever leader. It's always good. Why do you always need positivity and compliments? All kidding aside. Oliver and Yair are building this ride from the wheels up. So if you want to help them, you can produce, edit, and/or join their team. Any help is welcome. And Financial help is also welcome. There is an account on Patreon, P-A-T-R-E-O-N. There's an account. You can help them with a monthly donation, a one-time donation, any currency, shekel, pound, euro, dollar is welcome. Please join Oliver and Yair next week for another episode of Really Jewish. Thank you. Oliver Joseph: Thank you, Alon. Yair Eldan: Thank you, Alone. Thank you so much.