Latest / Mythmakers / Sidecast - LOTR: An Author's Journey, Book 2 Chapter 4

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Sidecast - LOTR: An Author's Journey, Book 2 Chapter 4 · Mythmakers

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Hello and welcome to Midmakers.
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Midmakers is the podcast for fantasy fans and fantasy creatives brought to you by the Oxford
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Centre for Fantasy.
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My name is Julia Golding, and today we have one of our site casts where we take an
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office look through Lord of the Rings.
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We have reached chapter 4 in book 2, which is called a journey in the dark.
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So we left our heroes at the last episode having been defeated by the mountain Karadras,
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and now they have a contrasting story through the dark, going through the minds of Moria.
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Now this is the first point I want to make right at the beginning is how, from an author's
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point of view, I noticed that talking is doing big contrast in his journey from the
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blinding white snow to the dark, dark depths of Moria.
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I'd also want to mention it's one of the long chapters again, not as long as the Council
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of Elrond, but when you look at how long it takes to read it out, it clocks in at one
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and a half hours, so it puts it amongst the longer chapters.
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And you'll see why when you realise how much it covers.
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I made it out to be in at least five parts, so you've started off with the discussion
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which they call a mini-counselor, Council of what to do next.
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Then you reach the section with the encounter with the wolves, which didn't make it into
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the Lord of the Rings films by the way, so if you're coming at this from the perspective
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of the films, there's some new material here for you to enjoy.
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And there's a third section where they're looking for the gates of Moria, and then there's
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a passage underground in the sort of more of the mining part of Moria, as opposed to the
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living areas, and then the final section is in the area where the door is used to live
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in the Great Hall and by the tube of Barlin.
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Anyway, so that's a lot to cover, so let's get going.
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First of all, this mini-counsel, I think it's interesting to think about what Tolkien
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regards as a way of making decisions.
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He isn't really an autocrat, or even that interested in kings in some ways.
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He describes himself as an anarchist in his own letters, by which he means not lobbing
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bombs that people in the old anarchist sense, but he believes in small communities where
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the decisions are taken amongst those who have a stake in the outcome.
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So this is what you see here.
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So rather than sort of many layers of separation between the power brokers and the people who
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are affected by the decisions it happens in a council at a local level.
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So it's not the oldest who gets the final word, it's not the most senior, so it's not
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Gandalf, it's not Aragorn, but it's Frodo, the most involved, the one who's carrying
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the ring who gets the final say on their direction.
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Another sort of side note from author's point of view is such council is an excellent
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opportunity to have a recap naturally as to what the stakes are where they're going and
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where they've been.
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And also the character dynamics, you can do a lot of things in this one scene.
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You'll notice that Boramir is pulling away more and more as this section goes along because
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he's the most reluctant of the fellowship at this point.
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It's also a way of ratcheting up tension.
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You thought the mountain was bad, this is going to be worse.
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And to add to that feeling of a terror about going under the mountain to Moria, there's
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a line here saying that even to the hobbits it was a legend of vague fear.
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I wonder how they got that legend, did they hear stories in Rivendale or maybe Bilbo because
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obviously Bilbo is very well connected to the dwarves, but they have heard that it's
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a bad place to go.
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And then not only the vague level of fear about this place, they're heading Aragorn has
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a separate warning for Gandalf, which is foreshadowing what's about to happen.
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We can feel, on the first reading, if we're innocent of knowledge, how to imagine that
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when you've read it so many times, but you're beginning to think, hang on a minute, Gandalf
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is the most exposed because Aragorn is warning us.
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Aragorn says, the road may lead to Moria, but how can we hope that it will lead us through?
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And then he goes on to say, if you pass the doors of Moria, beware.
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So Gandalf is most at risk according to Aragorn, who has the almost the same amount of
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knowledge about the threats as Gandalf.
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So Gandalf also here is telling us why we can't take the other routes.
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So if you're looking at the maps, you might be thinking, oh, there's all this land over
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here.
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Why don't they just go round the problem rather than through it?
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So it cuts off the kind of author, but the author is here cutting off the reader's questions.
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That's what I meant to say.
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And Boromir is useful here as a way of exposing those questions, but also exposing his separate
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agenda.
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There's also a pun here.
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Thanks to Boromir, he says the name of Moria is black.
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The root of the word is to do with the dark, pit or the black pit.
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So it's a pun, not that people are laughing at this point.
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We also get a connection made here in this overview of what's going on in the world from Gandalf
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back to the Hobbit and the Battle of the Five Armies.
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Another of the points in the story where a Tolkien has decided to connect the stories.
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Gandalf was already a connection, as was Bilbo, but as the Hobbit was written as a story
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that was sort of separate from this to begin with and was then folded into the Middle
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Earth story, this is one of the points where Tolkien is kind of making those connections,
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despite fusing them together.
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Gimli, of course, is one of Gimli's best chapters from the point of view.
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He's having the time of his life in a sense because he wants to go there and he offers
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timely support.
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So it ends this section with Boromir intervening by, when he has failed to persuade Gandalf
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of his own wisdom, he kind of appeals to everybody else.
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He goes to Legolas, he goes to the Hobbits, who all, you know, they don't want to rush
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into danger either, so he doesn't, he gets some support from them for his reluctance.
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But Frodo is the one who realizes, well, we can't go back at this point.
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He has to go on is this, I suppose, the steal in the soul of Frodo is one of his defining
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characteristics.
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It's why he chooses to go on alone later at the end of this particular volume.
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But he also isn't, what's the word, he isn't a foolish reckless hero.
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He is a very considered one and he actually wants delay because he knows that it's difficult
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to take the decision.
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It's similar to the delay that you see in the breaking of the fellowship.
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He knows he has to make the decision, but he just wants a bit more time.
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The outcome of this is different from when Boramir intervenes at the end of the book and
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forces him to go off alone.
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Here we've got something quite different that forces them to take action.
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And that change of pace is, of course, the walls.
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Another thing from an author's point of view I wanted to mention is the number of line
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breaks in this chapter that aren't scene changes.
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They're almost used for, like, rests in music.
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There's either a pause for thought or a change in pace and obviously the music of creation
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is, Tolkien's thought about how the world became, so perhaps it's not unusual to find him
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using a similar technique, pacing, pause in his own writing.
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And we get a definite change of pace here.
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And that is reflected in not only the speed of activity that takes over when they're preparing
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to defend against the walls, but it's also in the language.
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Have a look at it.
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One particular point is Boramir and Aragorn topping each other in rhyming sayings.
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And Aragorn is the one who tops Boramir's saying.
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So it's like a battle in a sense of old sayings that happens and that adds to the rhythm
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and the change in pace.
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I think here that Pippin might be the person we most sympathise with because he's just
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plain terrified.
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And then we get Sam giving his Hobbit sense, which will carry him all the way through
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the novel.
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And also a dip into his more colloquial language.
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Perhaps the more colloquial language comes out when he is least guarded because he says
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we aren't etten yet.
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Whatever may be in store for old Gandalf, our wager, it isn't a wolf's belly.
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And that little conversation is the first of a bookend.
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Watch out for when it comes back again.
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So we then get some echoes here and some interesting developments of how the fellowship works.
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The first echo, I think, for those of you who have read the Hobbit, is that this feels
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a bit like the attack of the wolves or the wolves after they escape from under the mountains.
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This is before going under the mountains, but we know if we have Hobbit readers that
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wolves and orcs and mountains are all come in a bundle, you know, free for two, you
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get them all together.
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And it starts here with a sort of like a prelim, an initial threat where legulus and Gandalf
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team up to drive off the first of the watching wolves.
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It's like the first salvo, a probe of how their defenses are.
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And then we get the main attack and we get a beautiful paragraph of the fellowship in
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action in the middle of, let me just turn to the page, middle of page 312 in my volume.
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And it's a great way of to summing up a battle scene.
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Now skirmishes battles are incredibly difficult to to write because they're really, they
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are confusing and a lot is happening.
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So Gandalf, so keep on him, Gandalf, that's a Freudian slip, isn't it?
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Tolkien shows us how to do this by first of all, he chooses his point of view on this
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scene, so he's chosen Frodo.
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So Frodo saw many grey shapes spring over the ring of stones, more and more followed.
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And you can sort of understand that it's still Frodo watching what's happening.
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And we get a sort of lineup of who fights and how, through the throat of one huge leader
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Aragorn past his sword with a thrust, with a great sweep Boromir hewed the head off
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another, beside them Gimli stood with his stout legs apart wielding his warfax, the
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bow of Legolas was singing.
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So it's a sort of roll call through the weapons and the different fighting stances of the
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main action figures in the fellowship.
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And then of course, capping it all, beginning of the next paragraph, in the wavering
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fire night Gandalf seems suddenly to grow, he rose up a great menacing shape like the
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monument to some ancient king of stone set upon a hill.
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And he does one of the rare times when he does a spell, we're blast of light that sort
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of finishes off the attack.
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And Legolas releases one last arrow, it's almost like a sort of fighting ballet.
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And of course, fight scenes do have to be choreographed.
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So perhaps that's not such a foolish thing to say.
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And there's an echo here of maybe we're seeing close to what was only seen from a distance
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when we saw when the arrogant and photos saw the flickering fire on the top of weather
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top, when we know that Gandalf fought the Black Riders.
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Now we see the kind of spell he might have done then.
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And then we get the other bookend, which finishes this section of the wolves.
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And Sam says to pip in again, so it's almost like that conversation has now come to this
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point, saying that obviously Gandalf wasn't destined to be my wolves and he says that
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was an eye-opener, a no mistake.
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Now this line was moved in the Peter Jackson films because they didn't do this scene.
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So I'm going to put it back in its right context and Sam is still keeping us with our feet
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on the ground.
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So that frantic pace has a wonderful contrast to the coming of dawn.
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It's like an uncanny waking moment where there's no sign of the enemy except one damaged
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arrow.
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So we've had Gandalf doing magic, but there seems to be some sort of magic or certainly
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skilled operators on the other side who are hiding what they're doing.
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And there's a discussion here about some power is working against them.
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They talk about it as the change in the weather.
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I don't know if it's ever cleared up, if this power is a sort of sonic power, a sort of
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native power of the misty mountains like Kailadras was or if it's sour on reaching out
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from Mordor or Dol Guldur, which is a bit closer, or if it's sour a man, again the Jackson
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film suggests it's sour a man.
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So as we read through this, I'll see if it's actually cleared up, but I don't think it
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is.
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We'll see.
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Anyway, so we then go into the section about trying to find the gates.
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I think what's interesting here is making sure that your heroes are all powerful.
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One of the problems of Superman as a superhero is unless as kryptonite around his two powerful.
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So Gandalf is no Superman.
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He doesn't remember or he's not clear and Argon doesn't know this land because he's
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not been there very often, if at all.
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And this period of sort of foggy doubt as they try and find the trace through what they
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know used to be there and they know the signs should be there, but they can't find them.
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Where is the River Cironon?
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Where's it gone?
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Reminded me very strongly of the section at a different tone, of course, at the beginning
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of Prince Caspian when the children are go back for them it's a year later and they
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go back and land at Care Paravelle.
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But for the people at Care Paravelle over a thousand years have passed and the landmasses
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change the castle has fallen down and they don't recognise it.
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The course of the river has changed making Care Paravelle into a sort of island.
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And this is one of those places where perhaps this was in the back of Lewis's mind because
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he obviously heard these, but it might also just be a shared interest in what happens
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to places as time passes, the sense of history in a fantasy land to give it more reality.
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So I think the fact that it's not like a carbon copy of how it used to be under the days
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of Keller Brimble just makes us really believe in it more.
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And it's Gimli who finds the sign of the river to which Gandalf, of course, says indeed
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things have changed when they see that the falls by step falls are no longer running but
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are just a trickle.
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And that becomes more ominous in a moment's time because they next see the reason for
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it which is a big dam that's been put across and the spread of what is introduced right
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off from the start as ominous water.
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This is where we will discover that the watch of the deep is living, but we already know
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it is somehow repellent and dangerous.
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Now we get the poor old Bill.
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So Gandalf has put off telling Sam that the upshot of their decision is that they can't
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take Bill with them.
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And I guess when you actually think about, he isn't being cruel because if you think
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about it, there hasn't really been time.
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They only just decided to take this path.
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They were going to go over the mountain and Bill could have come.
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So it's not like he already knew, but he did foresee that it might be a necessity.
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And I'll see that gives Sam this big dilemma that he is his faithful companion.
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So I suppose Bill is to him as he is to Frodo in a way that each and service to each other.
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Anyway, so the moment of saying goodbye to Bill is held off, but is hovering.
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And as the approach where the gates are going to be, I think there's a wonderful touch here.
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I say cross one of the inlets to the ominous water.
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Frodo shuddered with disgust at the touch of the dark, unclean water on his feet.
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So you get the sense of a, it doesn't really explain in what way unclean,
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maybe in an outfall of working from the mines or something like that.
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It's definitely not something you would choose to drink.
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But there's a reminder here of whose head we're inside experiencing this, which is Frodo's.
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And also get a reminder that the hobbits are doing this in bare feet.
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And that gives the reminder of their vulnerability to the landscape.
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Feeta mentioned a lot in this chapter, as you see.
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So this is one of the first of the little mentions of feet.
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So going back to the musical analogy I made earlier, there is a wonderful paragraph
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on the talk of page 316 if you've got the same pagination in yours,
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which just reminds you of how Tolkien controls his prose.
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I can do no better than just read it to you.
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As Sam, the last of the company, led Bill up to the dry ground on the far side,
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there came a soft sound, a swish, followed by a plot,
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as if a fish had disturbed the still service of the water.
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Turning quickly they saw ripples black edged with shadow in the waning light.
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Great rings were winding in, outwards were point far off in the lake.
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There was a bubbling noise, and then silence.
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The dusk deepened, and the last gleams of the sunset were failed in cloud.
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It's not the most famous passage in order, the ring is obviously,
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but I love the way it is crafted.
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That's what I'm pointing out really.
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That you get a hint, the rings, bubbles, and then it dies away.
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So just as in the battle earlier, you got the first shot, the first probe.
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This is like in the oncoming watcher of the deeps, a similar thing.
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You get the hint and the sort of probing rings coming out.
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We all know something's going to happen.
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We've been shown in the Chekhovian terms.
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We've been shown the gun in the first act.
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We know it's going to go off in the last.
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So I'll be now reach the doors.
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So in our section we're coming to the end of this one.
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And there's a number of things to mention about this.
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Before we talk about the actual illustration in the book,
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one of the rare times we actually have something graving in the book.
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There are two in this chapter, by the way.
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I can't think of another, which has as many.
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But we also get Holly mentioned.
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So we know the place is called Hollin.
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And Holly trees are what is guarding its border.
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That all seems very appropriate.
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But Holly is a prickly evergreen.
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So it's a tough kind of very fitting kind of shrub,
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an old old shrub.
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But also it stands out as being the only natural thing
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that's mentioned.
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So it's stark.
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It's like when you see a lone tree on a rocky hillside,
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it really stands out as a survivor.
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So the Holly trees sticking our mind from that point of view.
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And after the council at the beginning,
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we get a sort of unreluctant council here.
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The Pearl Gandalf has to defend himself.
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And he gives a plea here, which I think is quite poignant.
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He says, because they're trying to work out who's fault it is
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that the gates were closed and the relationships
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between the elves and the walls broke down.
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Gandalf says, look, we haven't got time for that.
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But I beg you to, legless and gimme, at least to be friends
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and to help me, I need you both.
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And of course, the wonderful thing is,
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this admonition here, possibly because he does go
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on to seemingly die, is what happens
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that legless and gimme Lee, after this point,
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and they get through Morio, do become friends.
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And I wonder if it stems from that sort of appeal
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from Gandalf to pull together.
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Then we get another Sam moment and portal bill.
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And I love the way Sam kind of is still refusing.
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He just doesn't want to, he's not having this.
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Sam says, I won't have it and that's flat.
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That's colloquial.
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But I couldn't really think where that was from.
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I should have cut the origin of the phrase.
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I think it normally has, you know,
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this sense of slapping your hand on the table.
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You know, that's it.
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End of end of end of argument.
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And he has to choose between Bill and his master.
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So before we report Gandalf to, you know,
23:48
the RSPCA or something, he gives Bill a blessing.
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Well, it feels like a blessing.
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Gandalf has this spiritual quality to him, of course.
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And he tells Sam, the, not sure if this is comforting,
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but it's true, he will have quite as much a chance
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of escaping wars and getting home as we have.
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So kind of comforting, isn't it?
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It's very Gandalf because you could read that either way.
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And we have Sam in tears.
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Sam is quite close to tears often.
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He has this ability to access some more straightforward,
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honest sense of emotion, which I think is wonderful about him.
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Then we get the wonderful image,
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which of course everybody's copy has got
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of the doors of Moria.
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And you get in there, an explanation that,
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or Gandalf reads it out,
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I, Navi, made them Celebrimba of Holland
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drew these signs.
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If you are trying to connect this section
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to the rings of power, Navi appears as a character,
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not a major character, but he appears as a character
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in the second season of rings of power.
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And of course, Celebrimba is one of the main characters.
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So this is the fruit of their labor.
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I think actually it was in the background
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at some points during the program.
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They didn't really lean into this very much.
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It would have been more interesting to see this section.
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Anyway, they didn't.
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And then Gandalf makes an error.
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Told you he's not superman.
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He says after reading that out,
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but they do not say anything of importance to us.
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Yes, they do Gandalf, the answer's written there,
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but hang on, he's got to go about it the hard way.
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And I, if you remember, I said that this was the section
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where Boromir is pulling away.
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And the tension really comes to a head here because Boromir
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is doing that.
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I told you so thing, which nothing more annoying
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for anyone trying to lead an expedition than that.
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And Gandalf snaps back at him.
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You may ask what is the use of my deeds
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when they are proved useless?
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You know, because Gandalf isn't there when Boromir
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actually breaks from the fellowship.
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So he's already fracturing from Gandalf at this point.
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And if Boromir wasn't enough to annoy Gandalf,
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he's also got Pippin, who will not be quelled,
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which is another wonderful quality of Pippin.
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Pippin says, what are you going to do then?
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And you get the inimitable Gandalf answer.
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Knock on the doors of your head, Peregrine, Tuk.
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Said Gandalf.
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But if that does not shatter them and I'm allowed
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a little piece from foolish questions,
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I will seek for the opening words.
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So Boromir Gandalf.
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But it's a way of showing the different tensions within a group.
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So if you're going to have a council structure
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where nobody is an absolute lead,
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you do get more chance for all the individual members
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to have their own little moments of pulling
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in opposite directions.
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There's an escape room feel about this.
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I know it didn't exist at times, I'm talking.
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But you know, finding the right answer from the clues
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might be of my experiences of being in escape rooms.
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And then of course,
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whilst someone's trying to solve the clue,
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everyone else is sort of looking around.
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And that's what Boromir doing.
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He casts the stone and this really freaks Frodo out.
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Because Frodo has,
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and you can tell this from the ominous water comment,
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he has this feel of doom and danger from the pool.
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And he says, frankly, I am afraid of the pool.
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In the film version,
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Paul Pippin gets a blame for this.
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Pippin and Mary, it's Boromir.
27:46
So let's see, let's put this right.
27:48
Then we get the relief
27:50
when, for all this tension,
27:53
when Gandalf really enjoys his solve the puzzle.
27:57
And the answer of course is Melon,
28:00
not felt like the fruit, double L.
28:03
And you can see he's really enjoying finally cracking it.
28:07
I think he enjoys the cleverness of the,
28:10
well, he enjoys seeing how much he doesn't know.
28:13
And that's one of his wonderful humble qualities.
28:16
He was being too clever.
28:18
So it's like, it's his children.
28:20
You solve these things not
28:22
or childish minds or younger minds like the Hobbits,
28:26
not as age-old mayors.
28:29
And he's able to, of course, open the doors.
28:33
There's a sudden,
28:35
it's interesting here that Tolkien chooses,
28:37
because that's the kind of high point,
28:39
you could have just gone straight walking to the minds,
28:41
like, am I going to put a game?
28:43
You go from one to another.
28:45
But no, Tolkien chooses here
28:47
to give us lots of things happening all at once,
28:49
to speed it along, push us on.
28:52
And he says,
28:53
lots of things happen at once.
28:55
He warns us,
28:56
because he knows how difficult this is to write.
28:58
We've got Frodo being seized,
29:01
Bill running off,
29:03
Sam half-going after Bill,
29:06
and the monster throwing out more tentacles.
29:12
And Sam is the one who frees Frodo.
29:15
It isn't a Boramit Aragon double act like in the film.
29:19
Sam, who's always aware of both Bill and Frodo,
29:25
sees the danger to them both and chooses Frodo.
29:28
He always will choose Frodo.
29:30
And he cuts Frodo free.
29:33
It's less elaborate than it's portrayed in the film,
29:36
this section.
29:37
They get out of it quite quickly.
29:40
And we get another of these line breaks.
29:43
Remember the idea that they built that musical notation?
29:46
It's a pause to absorb the change of fortunes quite rapidly.
29:50
So they've gone from
29:52
it's just about solving a puzzle
29:54
to actually there's a big monster here to fight,
29:58
who's now blocking the way back.
30:00
He destroys the lovely trees,
30:02
which we had just been appreciating,
30:04
and stops the way back.
30:06
And Gandalf has one of his beautiful phrases here
30:09
when they're talking about
30:11
who and what it was.
30:13
There are older and fowler things than orcs
30:16
in the deep places of the world.
30:19
And there's a dip into Gandalf's point of view here
30:23
where he worries that it was Frodo
30:25
who was first targeted by the creature.
30:30
I think the sense of ominousness
30:33
might be emanating from the ring in a way,
30:35
because it draws the watcher
30:38
and of course draws danger to Frodo.
30:41
So now we're in the section
30:43
where we go through the mining part of Moria.
30:46
And I'm afraid Boramiri is still being
30:49
the old moaning mini-complaining
30:52
and that they have to go this way.
30:55
And Gandalf tries to sort of
30:58
bust to everyone's spirit
31:00
with a sip of Mirafor
31:02
and have a short break.
31:04
This cordial reminds me of the stories
31:07
of Berners dogs taking brandy up the mountains.
31:11
We know we know talking went to Switzerland
31:14
on a walking holiday
31:16
or to the Alps when he was a young man
31:18
might have seen these dogs.
31:20
Or perhaps when the inklings
31:21
went on walking holidays,
31:22
which they used to do that they had this,
31:24
then it all flasks
31:25
and it might be a little gesture
31:27
to the idea of having quick nip
31:30
to keep you going.
31:31
Or more seriously in the trenches,
31:34
perhaps.
31:35
Anyway, he's aware of the bolstering factor
31:39
of having a sort of spirit.
31:41
In this case it's the Elven spirit
31:43
to keep you going for what will turn out to be 40 miles.
31:47
Think about how far 40 miles is
31:49
in your context from me.
31:50
It's from where I'm sitting to pretty much London.
31:52
That is a long way.
31:54
It always fascinates me the geography of Moria.
32:00
Just vast, vast, vast.
32:03
So we now have another recap
32:06
of the fellowship in procession.
32:09
So we've got Gandalf and Gimli at the front.
32:12
And we've got Grim and Silent at the back, Boromir.
32:17
And no, an arrogant Boromir.
32:19
Boromir is with the young Hobbits
32:21
and Frodo and Sam walking towards the front.
32:26
And we're seeing Moria
32:28
through Frodo's point of view again.
32:31
Note these change of head spaces.
32:34
It's a very talkinian style.
32:37
Having one person perceive it means
32:39
you don't have to say it.
32:40
So Frodo says,
32:43
always thinking and say,
32:45
it was bewildering beyond hope of remembering.
32:48
So it's a wonderful evocation
32:50
of a huge maze of mine charts.
32:53
I don't know if you've ever been down a mine.
32:56
I went down a coal mine in Poland once upon a time
32:59
in Vrotswaff.
33:01
And it was bewildering
33:02
because of course you've got the layers
33:05
and you don't know how many layers there are
33:08
on what layer you're on.
33:10
You could baps,
33:11
and they don't have a map.
33:13
And here it's interesting that
33:15
I've said Boromir is the moaning mini
33:17
of the group.
33:18
Aragorn is the encourager.
33:22
So when people are worrying,
33:24
or hobbits,
33:25
are worrying about where they're going,
33:27
he says,
33:28
do not be afraid.
33:29
That's quite biblical.
33:30
It's like,
33:32
Gabriel saying to Mary,
33:33
it's got that feel.
33:34
Do not be afraid.
33:36
He is sure of finding the way home
33:39
in a blind night
33:40
than the Katzer Queen Borussia.
33:43
I think Tolkien said
33:45
that this Katzer Queen Borussia
33:47
when he wrote it was one of the times
33:49
when he didn't actually know
33:50
what the backstory was
33:51
and had to think about it later.
33:53
So that's the way
33:55
that sometimes Tolkien finds
33:58
his world almost
34:02
not in his own will,
34:03
but emerges from him.
34:05
It's an experience you get as a writer,
34:07
once you've set everything up,
34:09
things can spontaneously arise,
34:11
and you then have to
34:13
work out what it really means.
34:15
He does this with characters,
34:17
famously,
34:19
Aragorn,
34:21
originally called Trotter,
34:23
glad they changed the name.
34:25
He didn't plan to have that character,
34:27
he just arrived in the in Brie,
34:29
and same with Faramir,
34:31
who just walks out of the forest at one point.
34:33
You see from the letters,
34:35
that he's surprised by his own inventiveness,
34:37
and this is the little blints
34:39
of that experience of writing.
34:41
So if you are a writer listening to this,
34:43
have you reached that point
34:45
on your craft is when things happen
34:47
almost despite you?
34:51
So one of the first,
34:53
there's a number of obstacles that they reach.
34:55
Obviously choosing passages is one of them,
34:57
but one that always worried me the most
34:59
was the seven foot jump,
35:01
which Pippin is worried about.
35:03
Now I'm a terrible,
35:05
and I'm just not very athletic.
35:07
That's what it comes down to.
35:09
And I actually remember measuring out something,
35:11
thinking I couldn't jump that,
35:13
because I was a child,
35:15
and Pippin felt, feels the same way.
35:17
So I'm with you, Pippin.
35:19
I don't want to jump a seven foot.
35:21
Casamita.
35:23
So two things here,
35:25
it kind of indicates not taking Bill,
35:27
because he couldn't have managed that.
35:29
And also Sam has this recurrence
35:31
of the thought that he hasn't got wrote with him,
35:33
which will become important in Lorient,
35:37
La Florian.
35:39
There's an interesting section here,
35:41
which I didn't notice to reading it this time.
35:43
A Frodo reflects on the change in him.
35:45
The fact that you can still
35:47
find new things in order of the rings,
35:49
no matter how many times you read it,
35:51
is one of the brillences of this book.
35:53
Anyway, he reflects how he can see in the dark,
35:57
as well as anyone, perhaps,
35:59
save, perhaps Gandalf.
36:01
A, I didn't know Gandalf could see one in the dark.
36:03
And I would have thought maybe the elves saw better,
36:07
but they don't.
36:09
But there is an association here
36:11
with how the ring is changing him.
36:15
Never forget this is about the ring.
36:17
Don't leave the ring out of the picture for too long.
36:19
That's what Tolkien's doing here.
36:21
I'm not sure it's mentioned again.
36:23
Let's keep an eye out for that,
36:25
as we go through.
36:27
Casamita doesn't seem particularly
36:29
when they're in the next set of caves,
36:33
which is the ones of Shilob.
36:35
Can't remember him particularly see more than Sam.
36:39
Anyway, let's keep an eye out for that.
36:41
Maybe in just one of those things that was dropped as a theme.
36:45
And he says about the ring,
36:47
he felt the certainty of evil ahead
36:49
and of evil following.
36:51
But he said nothing.
36:53
He gripped tighter on the hill to his sword
36:55
and went on doggedly.
36:57
So that is kind of Frodo, isn't it?
36:59
He knows through the perception
37:03
that he's got evil behind him,
37:05
evil ahead of him.
37:07
But what he can do is grip on the hill to his sword
37:09
and carry on.
37:11
Now, there's a toeful,
37:13
another eye fuller.
37:15
I love this chapter, as you can probably tell.
37:17
But there's a wonderful passage
37:19
at the bottom of page 325
37:21
about footsteps.
37:23
I've said I mentioned feet already.
37:25
And this is how you do
37:27
another kind of sense than sight.
37:31
It's a true sound.
37:33
But also it shows you how acute
37:35
everybody's senses are being deprived of sight.
37:39
There was no sound but the sound
37:41
of their own feet.
37:43
The dull stump of Gimli's dwarf boots.
37:45
The heavy tread of Boromir.
37:47
The light step of Legolas.
37:49
The soft, scarce,
37:51
heard pattern of Hobbit feet.
37:53
And in the rear,
37:55
the slow firm,
37:57
footfalls of Aragorn with his long stride.
37:59
And it doesn't mention Gandalf there,
38:01
but I think Gandalf wears boots.
38:03
It sums up the characters,
38:05
but also makes this point
38:07
to listening.
38:09
Because the next thing is
38:11
that he can hear
38:13
something else.
38:15
Frodo began to hear,
38:17
or to imagine that he heard
38:19
something else like the faint fall
38:21
of soft bare feet.
38:23
Golem folks. Golem is coming.
38:25
And it brings it closer and closer.
38:27
So I love that passage,
38:29
brilliant piece of writing,
38:31
but also reminding us of
38:33
the characters,
38:35
you know, the dull thud of Gimli,
38:37
the heavy tread of Boromir and so on.
38:39
But also
38:41
gives you a way of planting the sea
38:43
that Golem is with them in a very subtle way.
38:47
Then the next little
38:49
interlude in the
38:51
the obstacles of Boromir
38:53
is of course the three passageways
38:55
which Gandalf used to choose from.
38:57
In the Jackson film,
38:59
they did this in an open area
39:01
because I suppose that's easier to film.
39:03
But in the book,
39:05
they go into a
39:07
a guard room.
39:09
And this is where Pippin makes his
39:11
error of dropping the stone.
39:13
In the film version,
39:15
he pushes some sort of
39:17
rather
39:19
Monty Python-esque skeleton
39:21
down a well.
39:23
It's more subtle. He's just curious
39:25
and curiously killed the cat, as we know.
39:27
He just wants to know
39:29
how deep the well is. So he drops the stone
39:31
and this is where you get another
39:33
Gandalf,
39:35
Pippin double act. They are so good together, aren't they?
39:37
Full of a tooke.
39:39
This is a serious journey
39:41
not a hobbit walking party.
39:43
Throw yourself in next time
39:45
and then you will be no further nuisance.
39:49
So Pippin is in the doghouse
39:51
and made to go and watch first.
39:53
But it just shows you that
39:55
how
39:57
the quality is in a lot of the rings
39:59
which I think bring us back.
40:01
And why I prefer this to a game of Thrones world, for example,
40:03
is the compassion and the mercy of the characters.
40:07
They're just gorgeous.
40:09
And we've got Gandalf coming along
40:11
and saying,
40:13
get into a corner and have a sleep, my lad.
40:15
You want to sleep, I expect,
40:17
and I cannot sleep.
40:19
And when he's sleeping off,
40:21
he doesn't make him suffer.
40:23
And there's this beautiful tablo
40:25
and this is from Pippin's point of view.
40:27
So remember the Lord of the Rings is like a
40:29
collection of everybody's
40:31
all the hobbit's memories. This is Pippin.
40:33
The last thing that Pippin saw
40:35
as sleep took him was a dark glimpse
40:37
of the old wizard
40:39
huddled on the floor,
40:41
shielding a glowing chip in his niled hands
40:43
between his knees.
40:45
The flicker for a moment showed his sharp nose
40:47
and the puff of smoke.
40:49
Beautiful.
40:51
And last quiet image, really, of Gandalf
40:53
that we get before,
40:55
well, the Balrog in the second,
40:57
in a few hours' time.
40:59
So when they wake up the next morning,
41:01
there is a feeling of,
41:03
what is the problem?
41:05
You know, it's the next section.
41:07
It's the lived in areas.
41:09
They make the right decision.
41:11
They get to the
41:13
habitable areas, the bigger halls,
41:15
the more darkening.
41:17
And Gandalf makes some light
41:19
and we get it.
41:21
Quick glimpse of black pillars.
41:23
I wonder if there is something like
41:25
obsidian or basalt,
41:27
the idea of that sort of
41:29
volcanic glass
41:31
that will reflect light back.
41:33
That's why I imagine it in my head.
41:35
Anyway.
41:37
And Gandalf says
41:39
he totally jinxes everything.
41:41
Talking puts this on purpose
41:43
Do you remember we've had all these warnings?
41:45
Gandalf, Gandalf's in danger.
41:47
And Gandalf says
41:49
things have gone well so far.
41:51
And the greater part of the dark road is over.
41:53
Oh no, as soon as someone says that,
41:55
you know that actually
41:57
no, it's not.
41:59
But before we get the
42:01
the conflict in the next chapter,
42:03
we've got some more dwarven moments.
42:07
Gimli has a very fine moment here,
42:09
chanting his poem.
42:11
Which is connected
42:13
in its sort of meter
42:15
to the dwarven poems
42:17
in the Hobbit.
42:19
But I love this.
42:21
Because it goes through
42:23
recalling the lights
42:25
and the
42:27
Moria Casadum at its height.
42:29
And then it ends
42:31
with this sort of sad
42:33
coda really.
42:35
The world is grey.
42:37
The mountains old.
42:39
No harp is wrong.
42:41
No hammer falls.
42:43
The darkness dwells in Durin's hall.
42:45
The shadow lies upon his tomb
42:47
in Moria in Casadum.
42:51
And that sets us up
42:53
for the tomb we're about to visit.
42:55
It's not Durin's tomb of course.
42:57
But that,
42:59
we've been imaginatively transported
43:01
to see Casadum at its height.
43:03
And now we're back to how it is now.
43:05
Which is a place of darkness.
43:07
And it's nice that
43:33
it's the
43:37
night of Bathville.
43:39
It's a second time in this chapter
43:41
because it was mentioned as being part of the
43:43
ingredient that made the glowing doorway.
43:45
And they come to discuss
43:47
the mithril coat, the cooslet.
43:49
This is a way of planting back
43:51
in our minds,
43:53
but Frodo is wearing it because he's
43:55
not referred to it for a while.
43:57
And we're privy
43:59
The others are talking about it, and Gandalf sort of says, I don't know if Bilbo ever
44:05
realised how much it was worth, and Frodo is not at all interested in its value.
44:11
He says in his own mind he thinks Bilbo was, you quite well what he was doing, but neither
44:18
of them valued it for what it was worth, they valued it for what it could do, and that
44:25
is protect the life of someone they love.
44:29
And that surely is the importance of treasure.
44:33
It's not to sit on a hold, it's to use and to use for good.
44:39
And that's why the ring doesn't have a hold over him, because he doesn't want it for
44:43
its value of getting him power at all.
44:47
So he's less temptable than many another character.
44:51
But the thought of the missile coat pointedly sends him back to Bilbo and Rivendell and
44:56
then back home.
44:58
This whole section, in fact the whole Moria section, is absolutely brilliantly done in
45:04
the BBC audio version of this, if you haven't listened to that episode, go back.
45:09
The footsteps, Frodo's thoughts, Kim and his poem, excellent, it's the best version
45:15
of Moria.
45:16
And of course, because being radio, you don't have the visuals, jumping over rocking stairways
45:23
and all the rest of it, so you can just concentrate on the atmosphere as Tolkien evokes it.
45:30
We also get, we've had footsteps, we also get a little hint of two points of light that
45:38
Frodo glimpses by one doorway.
45:41
Gollum is getting closer by inches, Tolkien's really saving up his entry.
45:50
Now the next section, Boramir is saying, let's go over there, that's the obvious way out.
45:54
And it's by chance they don't walk into the trap, which that choice would have led them.
46:00
They instead go on Gandalf's hesitancy, they go to Barlin's tomb.
46:07
And that gives us the second inscription in the chapter in the Dwarf Runes, which before
46:19
we hear how Barlin came to die, we know that he is dead, the hope to meet the dwarves
46:29
in Moria is not going to come to the past, which they probably were guessing anyway.
46:35
But also the fact that he's dead suggests that there are enemies there, so all these
46:39
things are planting seeds in our heads that this is a place occupied by the enemy.
46:45
But we have a moment, and where Tolkien chooses to end his long chapter is to lament one
46:52
of his favourite dwarves, obviously a main character amongst the dwarves in the Hobbit,
46:59
if you're thinking about which one was, he is the one with the white beard.
47:03
And Frodo says, speaking almost for Bilbo, he is dead then, so Frodo, I feared it was so,
47:09
and Gimli casts his hood over his face.
47:13
So in terms of our musical analogy, this ends with energy, this chapter, rather than action.
47:23
And action comes in the next chapter.
47:32
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