Latest / Authentic Living / Looking at the Shift in Diversity & Inclusion Today with Tina Varughese

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Looking at the Shift in Diversity & Inclusion Today with Tina Varughese · Authentic Living

• 0:01
  Welcome to authentic living with Roxanne, a place where we have conscious conversation
• 0:08
  things
• 0:14
  Derhodge matter.
• 0:36
  Hi, everyone.
• 0:37
  It's, Roxander Hoch.
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  Thanks again.
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  For 2 day.
• 0:40
  I have a colleague from Calgary Calgary Tina Bear Geeze.
• 0:44
  Is am I saying that property?
• 0:46
  I know you have it explicitly written here.
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  You were very close.
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  Varegies.
• 0:52
  Varegies.
• 0:53
  Okay.
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  I missed I missed I missed us, a there.
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  So, Tina is one of my colleagues, and we're both, members of the Canadian Association of
• 1:03
  Professional Speakers and, she's delighting us today to talk a bit about diversity.
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  So I'll tell you a little bit about her background and we'll gen just jump right into
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  it.
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  Tina, is named at 1 of the top 10 notable speakers by Ignite Magazine.
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  She's the president of T Works, a professional speaker and trainer specializing in diversity
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  and inclusion, inclusive leadership, and work life balance.
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  She's previously worked with the Alberta employment and immigration where she
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  spearheaded international recruitment missions as well as, running a successful relocation and
• 1:39
  settlement firm.
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  And she writes for various, publications, a human resources institute of Alberta, and she's
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  presently the president of the chapped the cap the Calgary chapter of the Canadian Association
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  of Professional Speakers.
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  I didn't realize that, Tina.
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  Yeah.
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  Past president now.
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  I, yeah, was tested for 2 years for the Calgary chapter and now passed.
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  Well, what I love is here that you were the face for diversity for the jobs campaign.
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  So when was this?
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  This was a little while ago.
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  Do you remember when they used real women in their campaign?
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  Oh, you know, and now you
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  when I read it earlier
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  I was think I was trying to go through in my mind to remember the pictures because there
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  wasn't you and a couple of other women.
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  Right?
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  Well, they had a number of different ads.
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  And, yes, I'd I was part of the, one of the ad campaigns, but in tingly enough for dove hair
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  products.
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  So a lot of it was the skin products.
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  So you did not see me in my skivies on a billboard, which is not about
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  I was thinking, well, I'm gonna go back to YouTube and try to find this.
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  But Well,
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  if you yeah.
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  You know, actually, interestingly enough, you go if you do go visit my web site.
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  There's a they had done a documentary, and they did interview a couple of the women from
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  Calgary, myself, and another that was that were in the ads, and it was all about the ad and
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  diversity and beauty.
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  And, you it's a quite neat because they have one of their more famous ads start And I have
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  it on my website.
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  It's it's sort of the transformation of a model.
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  And you might remember it, you know, without makeup and then how she's ultimately
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  airbrushed, and then then they did a documentary, and I'm in that documentary.
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  So, yeah, so if you're just really bored and wanting to watch that's on my website, you can
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  see that 2 minute blur
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  Well, I'm gonna I'm I I don't think it's just on a board.
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  I might love to see it.
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  So
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  Yeah.
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  My little claim to fame.
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  Well, that's awesome.
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  That's awesome.
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  So Tia also has 2 kids.
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  She has 5 fish.
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  1.
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  We lost 1.
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  Okay.
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  One one one husband to be clear, and she has recently started hip hop classes.
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  That that sounds fun.
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  Yeah.
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  It is fun.
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  I love to dance and, you know, it's dancing.
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  Actually, they say dancing helps with keeping memory, etcetera.
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  So so definitely I like doing things like that for my physical fitness well-being.
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  Well, as long as it's fun, right, to stain shape and then obviously have some fun while
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  you're doing it.
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  Absolutely.
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  So, Tina, so, obviously, you started off working for employment and immigration, and
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  then you've kind of, you know, done such amazing things.
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  Spreading the word on inclusion inclusion and diversity.
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  So tell me kind of how you made that evolution, what kind of things you were seeing out there.
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  And when you started and kind of, you know, kind of get us up to speed about what you're
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  doing today.
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  So I worked for Alberta immigration and had the delight of working with people that chose
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  Canada to be their home.
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  Lot of skilled workers, a lot of immigrants coming as investors, etcetera.
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  And I was born here, born and raised in in Canada.
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  So it was really an enlightening experience to meet with people that ultimately chose Canada
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  to be their home for whatever the reason might might be.
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  Some simply just wanted more space.
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  Some were leaving for political strife.
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  Some were wanting better education for their children.
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  So I I love that experience.
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  And I and when I work with immigrants from all over the world.
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  I realized as much as we are, like, we are different.
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  And we I being based in Calgary, large, oil, and gas, community, lots of expats, etcetera,
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  and we were bringing at that time a ton of skilled workers to work in oil sands, etcetera.
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  I noticed a bit of a gap that I might be able to help fulfill in terms of understanding
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  cultural differences.
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  There were some misunderstandings, miscommunication, and obviously opportunity.
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  And so I just felt maybe I could fill that gap.
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  So I first started off with a relocation settlement company when I left left the
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  government.
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  So I was working with expatriates that worked with multinationals from all over the world
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  that had a a a a subsidiary here in Calgary.
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  So they were international firms that had a subsidiary.
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  So I would work with Norwegian firms.
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  I would work with Thai Firms, and it was just such a fun experience for me because it was
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  really just bringing the world to you.
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  And, and then from there, I started speaking.
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  So I started speaking on cultural diversity and and, diversity and inclusion and and those
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  cultural differences and and really from a workplace perspective with over 25% of our
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  population in Canada being foreign.
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  I just recognized that there were some misunderstandings that I probably could help
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  alleviate and and hopefully build bridges versus build walls.
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  So I was speaking on this topic over a Derhodge, probably when it wasn't as popular as
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  it is now, it's definitely one of those topics that's at the forefront and much more in
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  demand.
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  And so, even doing more of a deep dive, speaking on what is, you know, unconscious
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  biases, etcetera.
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  So it's been a it's been a really interesting journey, and it's certainly one I'm passionate
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  about both professionally and personally.
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  I know I've had my own experiences being a person of color, being a female.
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  So definitely have had some experiences I mean, both positive and negative.
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  It's all part of our story.
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  So it I use a lot of that in my own speaking and and, use the stories of others as well just
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  to help people understand you know, what others potentially are going through.
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  I use a lot of humor.
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  I find it is a bit of a, a serious topic.
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  And so I find if you can use humor to to lighten, but also to to inspire and and to
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  ensure that people understand the messaging when when they can laugh and learn really goes
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  far.
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  So that's sort of what I like to do when I speak.
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  So, you know, you started, obviously, when you were working with governments?
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  What when was that time period that you worked with the government?
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  So I worked both minis municipally and provincially and both on the international
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  development side and economic side.
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  So I started, I started this is a while ago, dating myself a little bit, I started 1996, and
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  I left in 2007.
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  So I was almost a decade with with the government and, left at a time when I think
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  with government, sometimes, you know, you have to make that You hit a fork.
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  Can you decide, am I gonna stay, or am I gonna depart, leave on, and do my own thing?
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  So I without really having a clue became an entrepreneur.
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  And, like any entrepreneur, you don't necessarily know what the road is gonna be, and
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  it was definitely rocky.
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  That first I'd say 12 to 18 months, but I've been, I don't look back.
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  It's been a fantastic experience.
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  I still keep in touch with some of my colleagues.
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  And, I, I very graciously keep in touch with a lot of the new immigrants that I actually,
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  helped relocate and settle when they moved here.
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  So that's been a wonderful experience to see them thrive here in Canada.
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  Now when when you kind of think of that time and you think of today.
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  How had things shifted?
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  Like, you know, obviously, there's a lot more diversity.
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  You know, obviously, I'm from.
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  I, you know, I'm close to Toronto, you know, back when I came to Canada and I came to Canada
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  in 1983, diversity, you know, there was a bit of diversity, but there was not as much.
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  Now you Right.
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  When when you go to Mississauga Toronto, it's it's very diverse.
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  So when you're out there speaking to companies about, some of the mishaps or misnomas, what
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  are the main things that are happening out there?
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  Say today compared to, say, back into the nineties?
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  Well, as you mentioned, the shift in demographic has been quite prevalent.
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  And it's only continuing to shift.
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  It's only increasing in terms of, foreign born immigrants making their home here in Canada.
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  So and the and a lot of people think visible minority, but that's not necessarily the case.
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  You know, we have a lot of Europeans.
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  We have a lot of people from from the UK, etcetera.
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  So it is a very diverse population, and that multi culturalism is is it can really be a
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  positive.
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  But, of course, the world is a very diverse place, and we communicate differently.
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  We have you know, when it comes to religion culture, you know, even small talk can differ
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  in the office.
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  And sometimes they can cause.
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  I am noticing You know, it's because our demographic is shifting, but people don't
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  necessarily recognize their leadership capacity needs to shift, then it can cause some issue
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  with companies.
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  So a lot of companies, you know, the demographic, depending on the city, is, very
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  high.
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  In in Vancouver, you're looking at 45% foreign born.
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  Some a place like Calgary, you're looking at about 25%.
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  But even some of our rural centers, some a lot of immigrants like to make rural communities,
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  their home.
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  So they're increasing too.
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  And I do notice that, you know, the diversity of of different centers is is increasing across
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  the board.
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  So it's it's definitely something that I don't think any company really can ignore.
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  Your best off to under, you know, the awareness, the understanding, and embracing is
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  is key and ultimately adapting as well.
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  I'm a big believer of you know, keeping you you need to keep your your culture and and retain
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  that.
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  So important, but at the same time, you'd need to adapt accordingly because you know, you at
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  the end of the day, it does come down to to leadership and and recognizing, you know,
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  everybody that you work with are individuals and needing to understand a little bit about
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  their lens where they're coming from.
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  Absolutely.
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  And I think, you know, I came from Trinidad and Tobago when I was you know, seventeen years old
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  to go to school.
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  And I remember, you know, what what how hard it was for me, you know, coming and and going, to
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  grade 13.
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  Just and I, you know, obviously I spoke English and lots of different things, but it was such
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  that process of accultreating to the difference.
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  There was it it it was like a bit of a tsunami on a teenager with lots of other things.
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  Right?
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  Absolutely.
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  No.
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  And so that process of feeling comfortable, obviously, like you're saying, that takes a bit
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  of time.
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  And then sometimes just the cultural norms of the majority culture and, you know, kinda
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  maintain maintain your identity as part of, you know, whatever your primary group is, but
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  integrating into the majority culture becomes very, very key.
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  Absolutely.
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  Hear from a lot of, you know, immigrants now in this day and age.
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  Do you find that they're finding it a lot easier integrating into big companies are a lot
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  of big companies doing things well now to kind of think of diversity and inclusion from that
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  lens.
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  I'm not sure if they're necessarily integrating easier, and it's somewhat dependent on the
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  country that they're coming from.
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  We're a very individualistic culture in Canada and in North America.
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  And and what that means is sort of we look at our own achievements, our own accomplishments,
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  and collectivists, you know, so our top source countries are mostly coming from collectivist
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  countries, India, China, the Philippines are more collectivists in nature.
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  And so they don't necessarily look at their own achievements accomplishments, but they look at
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  that from a team perspective or from a group perspective, community perspective.
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  That can be a positive and a negative.
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  But without that awareness and understanding, that actually can affect the workplace, in so
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  many ways.
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  It can affect how you lead a meeting.
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  It can affect performance feedback.
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  It can affect productivity if you don't understand how a mix team might work.
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  So I think in some ways, it's not easy per se because people don't necessarily have that
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  capacity and understanding cultural difference.
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  However, what I will say has changed and what I find very, enlightening and and encourage.
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  I'm encouraged by is there are some companies now that do have they're not only embracing
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  diversity and inclusion niche initiatives.
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  A lot of companies in the 3 years have started embracing diversity and inclusion initiatives
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  within their companies, definitely more medium and large ones.
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  And some are even, you know, including a manager or director of diversity and including
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  So that was a bit of a term more in the US.
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  That was definitely more prevalent in in the last decade having flow managers of diversity
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  and inclusion, and I'm I'm very, encouraged to see Canadian firms are starting to have those
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  positions identified as well.
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  So I think that change and shift is happening because it's being seen, you know, usually, you
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  know, any kind of cultural shift in any any type of organization occurs because of weed,
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  but it is good to see that it's starting to happen.
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  And and I would say it's all it's very, new.
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  It's only in the 3 years that I've seen those initiatives occur?
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  Well, that's amazing.
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  So they they actually creating those positions that says that that's that's on their radar.
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  To recognize and how to integrate.
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  And, like you said, you know, if you think about, individualistic versus, you know,
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  collective, you know, that perspective of culture.
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  So I come I come from a a Caribbean culture, which is very, very, collectivist.
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  We are.
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  Absolutely.
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  We think about, you know, it's kinda like, you know, when you, you know, when you would be out
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  and, you know, you did something wrong.
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  In the island, it was like, how was that, you know, impact your family?
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  That was the first thing that I grew up learning.
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  So then I would think, you know, even when I was in North America, I would think my
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  goodness.
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  You know, I had to I had to get along because if I didn't, I was representing what my family,
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  how my family would be perceived.
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  And then you come to North America where, you know, it's like, wow.
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  This is different, especially as a teenager.
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  You're like, you're, you mean you're not gonna get in trouble with your parents, and they're
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  like, oh, no.
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  It it was something that was quite quite different for me.
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  Now I understand it, but at that time, it it was a a just a a different shift.
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  You know?
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  Mhmm.
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  Mhmm.
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  So let's talk a little bit about, unconscious bias because I think that's something that, you
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  know, we all do.
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  Even though, you know, we believe most of us are heightened and believe I'm not, you know, I
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  don't judge.
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  But let's talk a little bit about that because I know that's that's your expertise around
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  unconscious bias and kind of how that plays out in in in the workplace.
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  Yeah.
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  Well, like you said, I mean, definitely having unconscious biases doesn't mean that you're
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  racist or scriminatory.
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  It truly just means that you're human.
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  We all have unconscious biases.
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  It comes down to the neuroscience of the brain and how our brains work and how we get
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  inundated with so much information on a daily basis that our brains have developed shortcuts
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  on how to, kind of figure out and compartmentalize that information.
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  So, in some ways, it's a it's a positive, but unfortunately, we're not born with bias we
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  compartmentalize and and make those judgments because of our it might be cultural upbringing.
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  It might be the history we're told.
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  It might be the friends we keep.
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  It might be social media.
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  So we get biased along the way.
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  We get influenced along the way, and we start to make decisions that ultimately we try to
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  make decisions, but we have to decide, are these the right decisions?
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  And those are because we're making unconscious decisions.
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  We're not making conscious decisions because we're biased by judgment.
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  We tend to have, judgment when it comes to gender, race, religion, sexual orientation,
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  age, disability, both emotional, physical, and weight.
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  Those would be sort of the key areas where we do have, unconscious biases against others.
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  Statistically, there's over a 170 biases that people potentially could have.
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  The the ones that probably are most prevalent in the workplace tend to be around gender bias,
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  maternal bias as a subset of of gender bias, but I feel maternal bias actually affects both
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  men and women neatly as well as, affinity bias, which a lot of people aren't necessarily aware
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  of.
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  So, you know, we do talk a lot about, you know, in women and leadership positions.
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  And, of course, there's enough stats to back up that they're they're not necessarily
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  representative of the workforce, in those leadership positions, but, you know, more
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  importantly, the why behind it.
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  And a lot of the why comes down to to those unconscious biases that we have, against
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  against gender, and it's not just men that have potential biases against women without even
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  recognizing it.
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  It's women.
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  Women have biases against against other women against ourselves as women.
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  And so it's just even recognizing that in in and of itself, recognizing how to, you know,
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  small, small things.
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  So for example, you know, in a in a meeting room situation, if you're facilitating a
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  meeting, and a female is is saying something, an idea, and someone cuts them off.
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  Male or female as a facilitator, just saying, you know, something like, I really wanna hear
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  the rest of your idea, blah blah blah.
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  And and that is just one way of just making sure that people, everybody at in this world
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  wants to be seen heard and acknowledged.
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  So just making sure that they're able to to have that idea.
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  Statistically, you know, sadly, women are cut off in boardroom settings more than men.
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  So it's a small thing as facilitator of a meeting just to be cognizant of it.
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  And I've I've, you know, I was an executive with a health and wellness firm, quite early in
• 19:36
  my career.
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  And and, you know, you would see it.
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  You would see it, those workroom tables in different companies, right, where you could
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  see, you know, kind of the lay of the lands, you know, and females would say speak up, their
• 19:51
  ideas would be listened to, but then sometimes would kinda, you know, be parked aside and then
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  say a male executive would see the same thing, and that would be listened to.
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  So, you know, I could see that that does still exist, but I think things have changed are
• 20:06
  shifting.
• 20:07
  Shifting.
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  Yeah.
• 20:08
  They're shifting.
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  I don't know.
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  I wouldn't say changing, but they're shifting.
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  You know, it's kinda like, you know, when you go out and you have meetings, I would have
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  meetings, and it was a predominantly nail environments, and you would I would go and
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  report on training analysis with health and wellness.
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  And, you know, kind of when the when men started to talk, I I would take care of a
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  hockey league, for instance, not knowing a thing about hockey back then, Gina.
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  And, you know, the the the insurance broker and the my, contact both played hockey so that they
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  would just literally you know, quite an and then I didn't take it personally, but really,
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  if you looked at it, they would just kind of, communicate about something that really I
• 20:51
  didn't have much input into, you know, so sometimes it'd be and I would say, hey, guys,
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  you know what?
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  I don't know much about hockey, but I know a lot psychology and all our books.
• 20:59
  Those types of things that I would jump in and joke around, right, to be able to to be
• 21:03
  included in the conversation So, you know, it's it's interesting, but I think, like, to your
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  point, it is getting better, and we all have to work better, at at recognizing, you know, I
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  just had a thought about that person or, that person's capacity and how is it that I could
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  maybe think a little bit differently in the future when something doesn't kind of fit the
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  subset of what I understand.
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  Exactly.
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  And I have to say I'm guilty of it, of my of it myself, actually.
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  Like, I had an experience.
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  I was, well, I when I was president, actually, of the Canadian Association of Professional
• 21:40
  Speakers for Calgary.
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  We were having a fundraising event.
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  And, you know, a couple of my female board members had offered to decorate the room for,
• 21:51
  the fundraising event.
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  I didn't think anything of it.
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  And then, you know, when I got there, 2 of the female members in one of the males was
• 21:58
  assisting.
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  And I realized that I, you know, it's it's called office housework where we we assign, you
• 22:06
  know, or rather we assume rather than assign duty.
• 22:09
  And it can happen very unconsciously that we just sort of assume that someone will take on a
• 22:14
  duty, you know, even something is as simple as note taking at a meeting.
• 22:20
  And you just assume the female may have better penmanship.
• 22:23
  And, you know, I I really try when I'm facilitating meetings.
• 22:27
  If I'm the facilitator, if I'm a paid facilitator, I actually don't ask people to,
• 22:33
  decide within the groups, but I actually, as the facilitator, will will assign, just to
• 22:39
  ensure that we're not sort of, going into those gender roles very unconsciously.
• 22:47
  And then once I do it, well, then people see, oh, okay.
• 22:50
  So they kinda learn by example but it's really just being aware of it because we can naturally
• 22:55
  do this.
• 22:55
  It's it comes down even in our personal lives.
• 22:57
  You know, I have a son and a daughter, and I realized for a very long time, we were having
• 23:02
  our son mow the lawn.
• 23:04
  And our daughter wasn't being asked to do the same.
• 23:06
  She can probably bench more than my son.
• 23:08
  So, you know, like, why why why are we asking him to mow the line when, you know, at the end
• 23:14
  of the day or or shovel the snow.
• 23:16
  She's she's stronger.
• 23:18
  She works out, you know, just as hard.
• 23:20
  If not harder, she's a strong girl.
• 23:21
  So it was it's just some of those biases that we just don't even realize that we're
• 23:26
  implementing and just need to be a little bit just aware of of them, to both at the workplace
• 23:33
  pro professionally and personally, just so that you know, we recognize the potential of
• 23:37
  everybody that's that's in the room.
• 23:40
  Now, Tina, I know we could probably talk a whole lot more because this talk because so
• 23:44
  important and the, you know, there's such breadth and depth to it, but I know we're on a
• 23:48
  certain timeline.
• 23:49
  So, What I wanna know is just any last words of wisdom that you would share with companies or
• 23:56
  leaders out there that are really recognizing that they have to either implement or to make
• 24:01
  better, inclusion and diversity in the in the workplace.
• 24:05
  And then also to tell everyone where they can reach you, should they want to work with you
• 24:10
  either speaking or training?
• 24:12
  I think the best word of advice.
• 24:14
  I'm a big speaker and individual.
• 24:17
  And I think, you know, just look around your company.
• 24:21
  Recognize that people are noticing things.
• 24:23
  So for example, you know, one of the companies I've noted, I was working with years ago, and
• 24:28
  they were a a a full on leadership team of all males.
• 24:32
  And then they had, an opportunity for for a town hall and was anonymous, but, you know,
• 24:39
  they could put in q and a and and someone wrote, well, is it is it only, males that can
• 24:45
  apply for leadership positions?
• 24:47
  Like, it was a very, you know, it was just sort of notice that there was a bit of a a ceiling
• 24:53
  there.
• 24:53
  And I guess I would I would ask companies to look around and look at their staff and and see
• 25:00
  if if they're potentially of I don't wanna use the word guilty, but think of affinity bias.
• 25:06
  So affinity bias is is ultimately when you're hiring in your own image, you're hiring people
• 25:10
  to remind you of yourselves.
• 25:11
  You're using the the guise of culture fit and saying, well, there'll be a great culture fit.
• 25:16
  Because that you feel that they're gonna be good, you know, melds into the company without
• 25:20
  realizing, you know, the more diverse and the the more diverse your your staff is actually
• 25:26
  potentially statistically, the more innovative, creative, and engaging the workplace can be if
• 25:31
  led properly.
• 25:32
  So just look around and see, you know, and not just from a diversity perspective in terms of,
• 25:37
  you know, gender or even visible minorities, but, you know, look at at how how many people
• 25:44
  do you have that that might be, you know, disabled or may even have mental illness that,
• 25:49
  you know, sometimes it has a an empathy that they might bring, to the table and and with an
• 25:55
  innovative idea of product, whatever it might be.
• 25:57
  Like, your staff is reflective of who you're serving.
• 26:02
  So, you know, to have that innovation and diversity within your staff, we'll we'll assist
• 26:08
  you.
• 26:08
  So just kinda just take a look around and be observant as to, you know, the people that
• 26:13
  you're working with.
• 26:14
  And and if if it is a very diverse culture, make sure diversity doesn't work on its own.
• 26:19
  You have diversity and inclusion go together.
• 26:21
  So I always say diversity is who's on the team, and inclusion is who gets to play.
• 26:26
  So we really have to make sure that, you know, everybody is playing hard for 2020.
• 26:32
  Awesome.
• 26:33
  So where can everybody or anybody listening that wants to learn more, that might be
• 26:38
  interested in working with you, where can they reach you?
• 26:41
  Best place would be to visit my website, which is t works for you.ca.
• 26:47
  T.
• 26:47
  Bing Tina works for you being the goal.
• 26:50
  So day works for you dotca is my website.
• 26:53
  From there, you can see all of my key notes and workshops that I provide as well as speaker
• 26:58
  demos.
• 26:59
  You can see myself in action as well as a lot of, the wonderful clients that I've worked with
• 27:03
  along the way.
• 27:04
  It's been a wonderful journey for me.
• 27:06
  Awesome.
• 27:07
  Well, what's my takeaway?
• 27:08
  My takeaway is that we need to continue to challenge yourself with our unconscious biases
• 27:16
  on an ongoing basis.
• 27:18
  We all judge, and I I don't say that that in a critical way, but we all do just based that to
• 27:23
  that affinity bias, lens that, Tina's talking about.
• 27:28
  So my challenge to you is to think about, you know, How is it that you're making decisions
• 27:33
  that's making someone be in line with you and maybe to, challenge yourself to be
• 27:39
  diametrically opposed to what you're like?
• 27:41
  To see if you can start making that change today.
• 27:44
  So if you're, needing anything from me, I'm Roxanne Derhodge.
• 27:46
  I'm a mental health and wellness specialist, and you can reach me Roxanne.
• 27:51
  Again, Tina, thanks so much for your time.
• 27:54
  Thank you.
• 27:55
  It's been a pleasure.
• 27:56
  Okay.
• 27:56
  Take care.
• 27:57
  Thank you.
• 27:58
  Putting in to authentic living with Roxanne, creating the space for positive healthy change.
• 28:04
  Roxanne is a keynote speaker psychotherapist, and coach to work with Roxanne, visit
• 28:10
  roxannedurhaj.com/blueprint.
• 28:14
  We'll see you next time on authentic living with Roxanne.