Latest / Trumponomics / Never Mind the Chewing Gum, Singapore is Global Trade Colossus

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Never Mind the Chewing Gum, Singapore is Global Trade Colossus · Trumponomics

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: So Dan, before we get started today, we just wanted
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  Speaker 1: Learn more at Bloomberg dot com. Backslash lends. All right, well,
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• 0:46
  Speaker 1: it for a few minutes. Globalization under threat peak free trade.
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: Today's headlines seem full of declarations that the once seemingly
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: unstoppable march toward the free flow of goods, services, labor,
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: and capital has stopped or has it? Never mind? And
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: after the end of TPP and bregsit and forget the
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: idea that globalization is a post n or post Cold
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: War phenomenon. For a real barometer of globalization, it's past
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: and critically it's present. Look no further than a small
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: island sandwich between Malaysia and Indonesia. Singapore both a country
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: and a city, and there's way more going on here
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: than just a ban on chewing gum. I'm Daniel Moss.
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg Benchmark, a podcast about the global economy.
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: I'm joined by my colleague Scott Landman in Washington. Good
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: to be with you, Dan. So smaller than Rhode Island,
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: Singapore is nothing less than a trading superpower, and it's thriving,
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: according to a new book by John Curtis Perry, Professor
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: Perry from the Fletcher School of Law and Diplomacy at
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: Tufts University in Massachusetts. Welcome to our program. Thank you
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: very much, gentlemen. It's a great pleasure to be with you,
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: and congratulations on the book. First, let's get something out
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: of the way. It continues to amaze me as a
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: former resident of Southeast Asia. Why the only thing many
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: Americans know about Singapore is that you're not supposed to
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: chew gum? How did this get to obscure the incredible rise,
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: fall and rise again of this trading superpower. Well, there's
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: chewing gum business. Of course, that's the one thing that
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: people seem to know about Singapore. It's animals towards the
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: chewing gum. Actually it's available, but you're not supposed to
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: to it and discarded on sidewalks, which I think is
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: quite an admirable thing. Singapore is remarkable because it's so
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: small and so vital, although it has problems which we'll
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: get to. I think their reasons for optimism and reasons
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: for why Americans should be especially interested in Singapore, particularly
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: business community. I think uh Singapore has uh such vitality
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: and such attractiveness is a place to do business that
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: it's drawn an amazing amount of interest from American American
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: business community. We have more money invested in Singapore than
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: we have in Australia. We have more money invested in
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: Singapore than we have in Japan. We have more money
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: twice as much money invested in Singapore than in all
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: of China, which I think is a remark corble statistic.
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: I would add, on top of what Dan said about
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: chewing gum being the only fact that a lot of
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: people know is that I remember quite clearly when I
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: was younger, They're the big story was about the kid
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: in Singapore who was sentenced to keening, which you duly
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: recount in your book. But you know, let's go back
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: even further. You know, we have these remarkable facts about
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: Singapore today, but tell us a little bit about the
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: early origins of Singapore and the forces which led to
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: its rise were really present long before the founder Stamford
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: Raffles appeared on the scene. Was was Singapore the way
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: to trade with China? Before you know there was the
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: kind of China trade that we think about today. Well,
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: you have to go back before the Europeans arrived UM
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: and to the earlier um Malay presence in Singapore. Uh.
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: Singapore was one of a number of maritime city states
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: about seven hundred years ago. UM and Thomasik or singaporea
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: uh two names for one place. UH. Tomasik, by the way,
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: is a name that's been resurrected for a large investment fund.
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: But the history of this Malay passage very shadowy because
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: all we have to work with is legend, a few documents,
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: early travelers accounts and so forth, and pieces of pottery
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: and bits of jewelry and so forth that have been
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: dug up almost inadvertently. But now in the twentieth century,
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: marine archaeology has entered the picture and we've learned quite
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: a bit more. So we can establish the fact that
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: Singapore is about seven hundred years old, and it was
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: a prosperous trading state of malaise, drawing people from all
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: over the archipelago and can ducting a lively trade with China,
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: and the Chinese begin to recognize the value of Southeast Asia. Uh.
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: They're drawn by the lure of tropical products, things like
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: rare woods, towrtoise shell, this sort of thing. China is huge,
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: but it's not self sufficient. It doesn't have a tropical area.
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: So the Chinese were drawn to Southeast Asia for what
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: was available there, these exotic products, and they dealt with
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: the malaise, and some of their traders stayed. And that's
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: really the beginning of the great Chinese diaspora. It's also
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: the beginning of great food and Malacca. Is it not
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: exactly food? Uh. Food represents a wonderful cultural fusion, and
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: the Singapore is particularly rich and diverse in its its
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: culinary world. Growing up in Australia. We're very familiar with
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: the traumatic tale of the fall of Singapore, the sinking
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: of the Prince of Wales, the seating of the repulse,
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: and the geostrategic shift within my native land. But let's
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: just rush through that for a second to get to
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: the post n era, the British return. Briefly, it doesn't
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: go so well. Independent sweeps through the region. But unlike
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: Indonesia and Malaysia, Singapore embraces its colonial heritage. Tell us
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: why that's right, Well, the Singaporean government and people have
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: been so pragmatic, recognizing the need for jobs to seed
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: their people and the recognition that Singapore has no natural
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: resources except it's splendid harbor, the harbor which developed as
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: a major world port even in the nineteenth century colonial era,
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: and as Li Kwan Yu, the Prime Minister founding Prime Minister,
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: would say, ultimately, well without the harbor, we are not
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: half ourselves. So the maritime maritime role of Singapore was
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: served as a catapult which kept it open to the
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: rest of the world. Even though it was a colony,
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: it was part of the British Empire, which gave it
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: a global embrace, and that was very important. So where
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: are we now, Let's turn to the go back to
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: what we're talking about our intro about globalization. How you know,
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: Singapore is a very it seems like a barometer of
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: globalization or natural example of that. When I think about Singapore,
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: having lived in China for a few years and worked
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: with a number of people, become somewhat familiar with Singapore. Um.
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: You know, you think about how English is the standard
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: language there. Uh, it's very pro business. Government service is
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: highly valued, and its public servants are probably the highest
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: paid in the world. You also have compulsory military service there.
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: How which of these things would you say is most
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: key to Singapore's place in the world as a major
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: center of trade and business? Right now? Did you need
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: all these things together or is one of them more
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: important than the others? Well, it's it's it's a it's
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: a tapestry. But I think the maritime is prime. Um.
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: I think that Singapore's role as a port generated uh
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: it's initially importance. It went on from from there. I
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: think that Singapore benefited, of course from its strategic location
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: and as an independent state after nineteen sixty. Uh, it
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: was fortunate in the timing it took of that of
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: the last years since since independence. UM, so it's it's
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: a matter of luck. Luck in history is always a factor.
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: After there was a huge leap in world wealth and
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: increasing global economic integration and the breakdown of old oceanic empires,
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: releasing new energies and technical technological advantages to the particularly
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: in the maritime sphere. The bulk carrier, the super ship,
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: the standard sized container offering a seam, the flow of goods,
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: all integrated by the Internet. All of these factors contributed
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: to UH Singapore's success and overall it was this attitude
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: of pragmatism. UM. Instead of blaming the British for the
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: harshness of colonial rule, it was not particularly onerous, but
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: nonetheless colonial rules never pleasant. UH. The Singaporeans did not
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: blame the British, but instead embraced the British tradition as
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: a way of creating the image that they wanted. Similarly,
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: their pragmatism could be exhibited in the attitudes towards the
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: Japanese after the war. As you know that Japanese came
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: in and occupied Singapore, and the occupation was cruel and demeaning,
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: and there was nothing good about it, But instead of
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: nurturing a sense of grievance, the Singaporeans embraced the Japanese
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: for what they could offer in the way of technology
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: and capital. So while Malaysia and Indonesia zigged, Singapore zagged.
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: That's basically what you're saying. They the Singaporeans did not
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: chase that rhetorical we are leaders of the third World.
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: They did not. No, highly pragmatic, always concerned about the
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: livelihood of the citizenry and the vulnerability of this small
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: island with a relatively large population to support, and recognizing
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: that the maritime important though it was was not significant,
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: was not adequate to provide for was needed. So they
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: had to move into manufacturing, and they had no capital.
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: They had to get capital from abroad. They had to
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: persuade foreigners that Singapore was a good investment, and this
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: meant creating a attractive environment. I think this was very important.
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: The greening of Singapore, the planting of trees and flowers,
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: and the cleanliness of the streets and so forth, conveying
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: an atmosphere of stability and control, the sort of thing
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: that businessmen look for when they're investing their money. So
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: all this I think was very important. And if you
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: add to that this combination of the Chinese entrepreneurial urge
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: and skill where the tradition of British law order, stability,
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: openness to the outside world and free trade to free
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: trade was established when when the British first arrived in
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: Singapore and was a big reason why it became an
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: instant success because other ports did not practice free trade
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: in a world that's becoming increasingly inward looking. Now. Uh,
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  Speaker 1: you know, with populism rising in much of the developed world. Uh,
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: what what happens to Singapore now? You know, do they
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: have to maintain their globalization to survive and maintain the
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: friendly relations and trade with countries across the world and
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: ensure that free trade continues and that they benefit from
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: both the best of the United States and China and
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: other major economy. Sure, but globalization is not going to disappear.
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  Speaker 1: Maybe under fire right now, but but there's every reason
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: for globalism too continue in the world, I think, and
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: Singapore is placed in an ideal position culturally I think too,
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: and economically to take advantage of whatever opportunities there are.
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: You know, you have a corruption free business environment, you
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: have this constant attention to logistics. They're doing things better.
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: Singapore is constantly rebuilding itself with a world class infrastructure
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: and uh connectivity with the rest of the world by
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: air and by sea. Um. They have a skilled and
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: hard working labor force, industrial peace, and most important I
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: think is that they have a strong interest in I T.
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: Literacy and they're aiming to become a smart nation. Other words,
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: they have a culture of accepting change and embracing the
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: new and adaptability, looking outside, questioning the established wisdom. And
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: I think this is going to enable Singapore to ride
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: any adverse currents um successfully. Now, the Singaporeans would be
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: the first to tell you the situation is not perfect.
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: That's one recipe of their success. This constant striving John,
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: I feel we do need to talk a little bit
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: about politics. The place sometimes gets a bad rap in
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: terms of political freedom, but the picture appears much more nuanced.
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: For example, biotech research is a big thing in Singapore,
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: and no one's looking over the shoulder of scientists saying
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: you can't do this with stem cells or you can't
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: do that, unlike political constraints on research in the United States.
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: Talk a little bit about how politics has evolved as
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: Singapore recognizes it has to keep it well. Singapore is
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: a republic. It's not a democracy, I guess you'd say,
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: because it's a one party state. One party has dominated
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: the politics since since politics began there, even before independence.
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: The government, however, has elections at regular intervals and they
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: subject themselves to the will of the people, and the
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: people have supported the government consistently because they're satisfied with
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: their living standards. But of course some chase under the
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: restrictive atmosphere of government, and the phrase nanny state, for example,
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: has been applied to UM the government which is overly
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: solicitous of its people. And so there is a question
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: of this, particularly when it affects the arts. And I
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: talk about that a bit in my book. To what
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: extent does control uh stifle freedom of expression? What would
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: happen to Singapore if the ruling party were to lose power? Well, um,
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: there are very capable people who could take office, and
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: this is a possibility. The Internet has brought big changes
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: to political expression because people can use that in a
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: way that they could not use the older media to
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: express their opinions. And there are many people who sound
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: off against the government and UM as the opposition perhaps
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: begins to coalesce a bit more, there's a possibility that
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: the ruling party will be voted out of office. But
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: thus far it's very strong, and the opposition has not
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: coalesced and presented an alternative that most people think is viable.
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: Let's close with a cosmic question, John, what does Singapore's
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: history and Singapore now say about the expansion of Chinese
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: economic and financial power? The question, you know, what would
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: the world be alike if there were ten Singaporees along
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: the coast of China, if each of the old Treaty
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: ports scattered along that China coast, they so called s
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: e z s especial economic zones which dun Suping established,
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: if each of them had sufficient independence to become a
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: Singapore type state, UH, this would mean a major shift
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: to Asia, which is of course already occurring as Asia
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: revives renews after UH some four or five centuries of
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: of lesser power. UM. So, the prospect of a numbers
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: of Singapoes is interesting. UM And the fact that Singapore
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: is essentially a Chinese state, the largest Chinese city outside
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: China outside China is um an indication of the power
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: of that culture. The commercial genius of the Chinese people.
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: So John inclose, what does Singapore tell us now, not
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: about Singapore itself, but about world trade and the rising
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: power of China. Well, I would say Singapore is not
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: a model, which that is used quite often. You appear,
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: appears in the press and the President of Rwanda says
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: he wants Ruanda to be the Singapore of of Central Africa. Um,
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: Singapore is not a model for anybody, but it does
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: offer lessons uh and I think the first lesson is
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: adaptability and pragmatism. The fact that Singapore has always climbed
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: the economic ladder, beginning with shipping and now in brain services.
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: And Singapore is achieved remarkable success in health care and education.
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: Um and I t um. I think Singapore offers a
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: lesson in UH forgiving the sins of the past. As
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: I mentioned earlier, UM and Singapore also illustrates the value
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: of using history to advantage and Uh I mentioned greening
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: to the lesson in creating an attractive environment that will
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: draw businessmen and others. And you mentioned government pay to
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: Singapore's remarkably corruption free and one reason is that, as
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: you mentioned, cabinet ministers get very high salaries, million dollar salaries.
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: They're competitive with the private sector, and government service offers
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: a prestigious as well as lucrative career, and that's very much,
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: of course, part of the Chinese imperial tradition. I can't
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: imagine anyone in Singapore making a speech saying government is
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: the problem, not the solution. Yes, Sehn, this has been
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: a real treat to have you with us, and again,
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: congratulations on the book. It's an incredible historical and economic
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: narrative that really sort of takes us right the way
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: back to, you know, the China trade before there was
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: a China trade. Well, thank you. I really enjoyed talking
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: and I do hope people will read the book and
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: I love talking about it. So thanks. Well, I'll let
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: you know what they say next week when I'm there. Okay, great.
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: Benchmark will be back next week and until then. You
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: can find us on the Bloomberg terminal, Bloomberg dot com,
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: and our Bloomberg app, as well as on Apple Podcasts,
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: pocket casts, and Stitcher. While you're there, please take a
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: minute to rate and review the show so more listeners
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: can find us and let us know what you thought
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: of the show. You can follow me on Twitter, at
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: at scott Landman Dan, You're at Moss Underscore. Echo Benchmark
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: is produced by Sarah Pattison. Our head of podcasts is
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: Alec McCay. Full disclosure. Alec claims to have brought chewing
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: gum into Singapore, chewed it and nobody cared. See you
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: next week.