Latest / The Chuck ToddCast / Interview Only w/ Seth Bodnar - Can An Independent Win Montana’s Senate Seat?

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Interview Only w/ Seth Bodnar - Can An Independent Win Montana’s Senate Seat? · The Chuck ToddCast

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: This episode of the Chuck Todd cast is brought to
• 0:02
  Speaker 1: you by Chapter. Now, almost everything you hear about Medicare
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: is somebody quietly trying to steer you somewhere. And you're
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: skeptical of that, as you should be. I get it.
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: I mean, there's a federal lawsuit going on right now
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: over exactly this. Companies that branded themselves as unbiased while
• 0:21
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• 0:25
  Speaker 1: as some sort of broker. So if your default is
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: to distrust everyone in this space, honestly, I get it.
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: I'm a bit distrustful these days myself. That's the whole
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: reason I want to tell you about Chapter. They're independent
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  Speaker 1: Medicare advisors whose entire model is that their advisors are
• 0:41
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• 0:47
  Speaker 1: it's across the board is what they're trying to do.
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: At the end of the day, they're advocating for you.
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: They're not the insurance companies themselves. They're an actual person
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: who actually goes through your doctors, your prescriptions, your needs,
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: and then compares them to every single plan available to
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: find the best one that will work for you and
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  Speaker 1: hopefully save you a couple dollars too. And here's the
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: part that sets chapter apart. They don't disappear once you've
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: been in They will keep advocating for you. They're kind
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: of like almost like a concierge service. You're just there.
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: I need help. You're like customer service. You know, the plan,
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: you know, help me navigate this again. So you ever
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: get hit with a wrongful medical bill, they'll help you
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: fight it. They want to stay an advocate for you
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: even after you've done this. So look, I get it.
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: I think there's all sorts of space. You see a
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: lot of people are throwing themselves in this healthcare space.
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  Speaker 1: What I like about these chapter folks, I've spent time
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  Speaker 1: with them. This is a very transparent organization. It is
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  Speaker 1: Medicare and all of its affiliated stuff can be very confusing.
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  Speaker 1: The whole point of this is to make this easier
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  Speaker 1: and less confusing. OK, so look, take the skepticism you
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: already have in all of this, point it at your
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  Speaker 1: own plan for 20 minutes. It's free. There's no pressure.
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: And then call chapter today at 980-734-4200. three, nine, eight, five. Well,
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: as many of you know, I have been very focused
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  Speaker 1: on wanting to see our duopoly shaken up. Uh, I've
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  Speaker 1: had quite a few candidates, independent candidates on this podcast,
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  Speaker 1: Todd Achilles in Idaho, Brian Banks, South Dakota. Uh, uh,
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  Speaker 1: we've had a gubernatorial candidates, independent candidates from Tennessee, and
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  Speaker 1: now probably the, um, One of the two or three
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  Speaker 1: independent candidates with the best shot here, Dan Osborne, Seth Bodnar,
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  Speaker 1: probably with the two best shots on the Senate level,
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  Speaker 1: Kevin Kiley on the House level. And Seth Bodnar joins
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  Speaker 1: me now, the independent candidate in Montana who has quite
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  Speaker 1: a few Democrats supporting his candidacy, including former Senator Tester,
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  Speaker 1: Pete Buttigieg, I know recently endorsed you. So former president
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  Speaker 1: of the University of Montana, Seth Bodnar, welcome to the podcast.
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  Speaker 2: Hey, thanks so much for having me, Chuck. I've been
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  Speaker 2: a big fan. I'm excited to be here.
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  Speaker 1: Well, I appreciate you saying that. So let's start with, look,
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  Speaker 1: I was talking with my producer before you came on
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  Speaker 1: and I said, you know, I understood, you know, I
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  Speaker 1: understand the reason and I know my desire, myself, is
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  Speaker 1: where my comfort zone is somewhere neither party really speaks
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  Speaker 1: to me. But from a pure tactical sense, if you
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  Speaker 1: were the Democratic nominee at this moment, It'd be a
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  Speaker 1: 50-50 race and you'd probably be the slight favorite right
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  Speaker 1: now in this odd two and a half way race.
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  Speaker 1: And I call it two and a half because the
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  Speaker 1: Democratic nominee isn't really putting out the campaign. You're in
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  Speaker 1: a tough spot. So any regrets about running as an independent? No,
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  Speaker 1: it's authentic to who I am.
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  Speaker 3: And it's honestly the change that this country needs. You know,
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  Speaker 3: you could speculate, oh, if I run under a party label, yeah,
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  Speaker 3: it's easier.
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  Speaker 1: Absolutely, it's easier.
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  Speaker 3: But what we are seeing is a complete failure of
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  Speaker 3: our legislative branch right now. Complete, everything's along partisan lines.
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  Speaker 3: nothing's getting done. And so, you know, it's not just
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  Speaker 3: about winning. It's actually about making an impact for the country.
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  Speaker 3: And I feel like as an independent and we got
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  Speaker 3: a real good, we got a real shot, you know,
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  Speaker 3: every day, more and more people, you mentioned, not just
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  Speaker 3: Democrats come into our side, but Republicans, you know, we
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  Speaker 3: had a former Bush cabinet official in terms of Christine
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  Speaker 3: Todd Whitman, former New Jersey governor, Republican endorsed us last week,
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  Speaker 3: the Republican county chair. And I'm more convinced today that,
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  Speaker 3: than I was in March when I launched this campaign,
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  Speaker 3: that what we need is a campaign, a political movement, frankly,
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  Speaker 3: built around our shared values, not around the partisan labels
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  Speaker 3: right now. And so, yeah, you could speculate on what
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  Speaker 3: could have been, but I'm comfortable, I'm happy with what
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  Speaker 3: we've done, and.
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  Speaker 2: I feel good about our shot, too.
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  Speaker 1: It's not lost on me that three of the four
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  Speaker 1: most prominent independent candidates, yourself, Brian Banks, Todd Achilles, military background,
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  Speaker 1: I don't think Dan Osborne has that. His background's a
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  Speaker 1: little bit different. And look, I've spent my share of
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  Speaker 1: time with retired generals and admirals. We were talking about
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  Speaker 1: Admiral McRaven. I was openly, publicly trying to recruit him
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  Speaker 1: to run for president in 2024. And I've talked with
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  Speaker 1: a few other generals off the record recently who have
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  Speaker 1: just recently left. And I've asked them about this. I said, look,
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  Speaker 1: The last institution that has majority trust in this country
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  Speaker 1: is the military. And so you at least start with
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  Speaker 1: an open mind with a voter. It doesn't mean they'll
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  Speaker 1: have the conversation. But I understand independence an easier place
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  Speaker 1: to be. And at the same time, quite a few
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  Speaker 1: retired military are still hesitant to get involved politically. Explain
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  Speaker 1: that mindset.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah.
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  Speaker 1: I mean, it's, it's hard.
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  Speaker 2: I mean, I think, and just, you know, Dan Osborne
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  Speaker 2: did use Dan served in the Navy.
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  Speaker 1: So there is that mistake. So all four of you.
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  Speaker 3: So I want to make sure that folks are aware
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  Speaker 3: of that, but, but yeah, I mean, I think what
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  Speaker 3: we see is independence and, and you know, You know
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  Speaker 3: the history, right? George Marshall very famously said he didn't
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  Speaker 3: even feel comfortable voting when he was in the military.
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  Speaker 3: One of the things you have drilled into you is
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  Speaker 3: this sense of a nonpartisan military, a military that has
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  Speaker 3: as its boss the Constitution. Yes, the commander in chief,
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  Speaker 3: but the apolitical military is essential to this Republic. That's
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  Speaker 3: one of the reasons that what we see Pete Hegseth
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  Speaker 3: doing right now has such grave and dire implications for
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  Speaker 3: the long-term health of this Republic.
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  Speaker 2: And I think you have a lot of retired military folks.
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  Speaker 3: If you've served in the military for 30 years, at
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  Speaker 3: least up until the last 18 months when Pete Hegseth
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  Speaker 3: has been on a mission to do everything he can
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  Speaker 3: to politicize our military leadership, Prior to that, at least,
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  Speaker 3: you've had the military where your sole focus is, I
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  Speaker 3: cannot be political. And so when you retire, I think
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  Speaker 3: there's a hesitance, especially among senior leaders, and a little
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  Speaker 3: bit of a reluctance among senior leaders to jump into
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  Speaker 3: the political fray for fear of creating a partisan identity
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  Speaker 3: of the U.S.
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  Speaker 1: Military. So I think that causes some of the hesitancy.
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  Speaker 1: What would you do if you were active duty right
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  Speaker 1: now with what Pete Haig said that's doing? Would you
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  Speaker 1: Would you feel if you're uncomfortable, if he's doing things
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  Speaker 1: that you just think are destructive, is the is the
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  Speaker 1: right thing to do? What is it to speak out?
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  Speaker 1: Is it to resign? I know. Look, there's a the
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  Speaker 1: head of Southcom has never spoken as to why he resigned.
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  Speaker 1: But the timing seems pretty obvious to a lot of us.
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  Speaker 1: His resignation comes after him not wanting to go through
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  Speaker 1: with an order about those those drug boats.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah.
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  Speaker 1: I talked with Admiral Stavridis about this and he said, look,
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  Speaker 1: I would resign and not say a word. Yeah. And
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  Speaker 1: I'm thinking, well, I get the resignation, but not saying
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  Speaker 1: a word seems problematic. Where do you stand on this?
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  Speaker 2: You know, I think it's and this is a dilemma, right?
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  Speaker 2: General H.R.
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  Speaker 3: McMaster, who was the national security advisor in the first
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  Speaker 3: Trump administration. I mean, his he wrote a book, Dereliction
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  Speaker 3: of Duty, about the struggles that generals had with this very,
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  Speaker 3: very question during the Vietnam era. And I think what
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  Speaker 3: you're what you're taught in professional military education as officers
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  Speaker 3: is that you carry out lawful orders. Right. Even in
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  Speaker 3: our oath, I will obey the lawful orders of those
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  Speaker 3: appointed over me. And when there's unlawful orders, you have
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  Speaker 3: two options, right? I guess one option is you obey them.
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  Speaker 3: The other is you resign. And I think you're seeing
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  Speaker 3: senior military leaders, yeah, resigning. And I think that's why
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  Speaker 3: you saw Mark Kelly, Alyssa Slotkin, and others just remind that, look,
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  Speaker 3: you are not obligated.
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  Speaker 2: In fact, you're obliged to not obey unlawful orders.
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  Speaker 3: And so I think what you see some of the
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  Speaker 3: senior leaders doing is, yeah, they're choosing between a really
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  Speaker 3: hard choice. And it's, I think, the dilemma, right? Moral
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  Speaker 3: dilemmas are never right versus wrong. Moral dilemmas are right
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  Speaker 3: versus right. And why it's tough for a military leader
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  Speaker 3: is do you stay.
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  Speaker 1: In to prevent....
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  Speaker 2: To minimize the harm that's done.
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  Speaker 3: And I know that many military leaders are struggling with
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  Speaker 3: that right now, saying, I see what this disaster is happening.
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  Speaker 1: I have integrity.
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  Speaker 3: If all the people with integrity leave, then we're really
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  Speaker 3: in trouble. So can I stick around and try to
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  Speaker 3: minimize the damage, try to hold this country together? Or
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  Speaker 3: do I resign and protest, That is a moral dilemma
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  Speaker 3: because there is a right case to be made for
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  Speaker 3: both of those options. And that's why military officers have
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  Speaker 3: to study ethics. That's why military officers should study philosophy.
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  Speaker 3: That's why Pete Hegseth is so completely off base when
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  Speaker 3: he talks about eliminating the subjects at military academies and
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  Speaker 3: at other places, or preventing military officers from going to
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  Speaker 3: Harvard for fear that they could actually be thinking people.
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  Speaker 2: We need thoughtful people leading our military.
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  Speaker 1: A retired, a recently retired general is not going to
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  Speaker 1: ignore a congressional subpoena. I have been waiting and waiting
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  Speaker 1: and waiting for some of these folks to be subpoenaed.
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  Speaker 1: Tell your story. Where is it now? You know, I
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  Speaker 1: have a lot of respect for Roger Wicker. I think
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  Speaker 1: he does. And he and Jack Reed, I think. I.
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  Speaker 1: I feel like we're close that they will do it
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  Speaker 1: together at some point here, but it hasn't happened soon enough.
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  Speaker 1: I mean, that seems to me that this is how
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  Speaker 1: our system is supposed to deal with us. Yeah. Oh, absolutely.
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  Speaker 2: And those things should happen, right?
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  Speaker 1: We should.
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  Speaker 3: This is the oversight responsibility of Congress. I mean, this is,
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  Speaker 3: you know, the other the other. reason I'm running as
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  Speaker 3: independent is because this republic is supposed to have three
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  Speaker 3: co-equal branches, right? Article 1 talks about the legislature first.
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  Speaker 1: I don't know if I even agree if it's co-equal.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah.
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  Speaker 1: It says Article 1. Yeah, the legislature. It is. This
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  Speaker 1: was never meant to be. This was meant to be
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  Speaker 1: the supreme branch. I think one of the greatest... BS
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  Speaker 1: is that we've put on people is this co-equal branch. Yes.
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  Speaker 1: They are all designed to check each other. Yeah. When
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  Speaker 1: you write a list of one, when you, when you
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  Speaker 1: put a list of one, two, three, do you put
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  Speaker 1: the most important third? Yeah. I look, I agree with you.
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  Speaker 1: I agree with you.
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  Speaker 3: I would settle for co-equal at this point though. Like
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  Speaker 3: if we could get back to co-equal, we'd be in
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  Speaker 3: a better spot than we are.
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  Speaker 2: And I think this is what Congress should be doing.
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  Speaker 3: And, you know, if I have the honor of representing
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  Speaker 3: Montana in the United States Senate, you're going to be
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  Speaker 3: damn sure I'm going to I'm going to work for accountability.
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  Speaker 3: We're going to get to the bottom of this because
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  Speaker 3: this the politicization of our military and the purging. of
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  Speaker 3: the senior ranks of our military right now is one
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  Speaker 3: of the gravest threats to this Republic that we're not
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  Speaker 3: talking enough about.
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  Speaker 1: We're all horrified, rightfully so.
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  Speaker 3: You see Pete Hegseth calling for the public execution of
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  Speaker 3: someone and live streaming somebody. I don't know how to
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  Speaker 3: explain that to my kids. Dad, how could somebody think
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  Speaker 3: this is okay, right? We're rightfully horrified by that. But
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  Speaker 3: the steady erosion, right? The Secretary of Defense taking one-star
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  Speaker 3: promotion lists They're supposed to be at the approved by
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  Speaker 3: four stars and then just checked off by the service secretaries.
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  Speaker 3: Him going line by line, person by person, purging primarily
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  Speaker 3: women and people of color.
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  Speaker 1: I was just going to say, does not it seems
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  Speaker 1: to be a demographic purge. Yeah, it is that.
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  Speaker 2: But you know what? That sends a chill throughout the
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  Speaker 2: entire military.
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  Speaker 3: And you better believe that not only influences the advice
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  Speaker 3: that senior leaders are giving because they don't want to
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  Speaker 3: be shot as the messenger, and it also influences how
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  Speaker 3: people behave and what they'll tolerate, what they accept. And
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  Speaker 3: that is an incredible, incredible long-term risk to our republic.
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  Speaker 3: And that damage needs to be stemmed immediately.
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  Speaker 1: What, you know, let's be honest, though. How many voters
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  Speaker 1: are you running into that say that that's the number
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  Speaker 1: one priority?
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  Speaker 2: Not very many.
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  Speaker 3: That's why people aren't talking about it, right? And understandably, right,
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  Speaker 3: Maslow hierarchy of needs, right? You've got families in Montana,
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  Speaker 3: and they're paying $ 6 a gallon for diesel. They're paying
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  Speaker 3: through the roof for groceries. I mean, housing, we live
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  Speaker 3: in the least affordable state in the country. I talked
• 14:02
  Speaker 3: to a farmer the other day from Belgrade, Montana. He said,
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  Speaker 3: I just did the math between skyrocketing fertilizer prices, diesel prices.
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  Speaker 3: It cost me $ 8. 60 to produce a bushel of wheat
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  Speaker 3: this year. I sold it for $ 6. 30. So it's that
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  Speaker 3: near-term problem right in front of your face that people
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  Speaker 3: are focused on.
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  Speaker 2: That's why I say people aren't talking about it.
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  Speaker 3: It's not a primary message in my stump speech, so
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  Speaker 3: to speak, but it is a vitally important topic.
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  Speaker 1: What do you think can actually be done on affordability
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  Speaker 1: if you get elected to the Senate?
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  Speaker 3: What is it that– could be reversed quickly in your mind?
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  Speaker 3: I think there's four things I'd focus on immediately. First
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  Speaker 3: and foremost is you stop the wars. Stop the war
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  Speaker 3: in Iran, and you stop the trade war with Canada.
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  Speaker 3: For a place like Montana, I mean, Iran war is
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  Speaker 3: affecting everybody and everything. The price of everything is higher, right?
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  Speaker 3: We talk about cost of diesel and gasoline. Everything we
• 15:00
  Speaker 3: buy is moved on a truck or a train at
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  Speaker 3: some point. So that's first and foremost. Then you look
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  Speaker 3: at Canada. I mean, the thing about a place like Montana,
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  Speaker 3: I was talking to a farmer outside Conrad, and he said,
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  Speaker 3: the thing that people in D.C. don't realize about a
• 15:12
  Speaker 3: guy like me is the closest Costco for me is
• 15:15
  Speaker 3: in Canada. Right. When I need a spare part, I
• 15:19
  Speaker 3: buy it from Canada. You look at small businesses here.
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  Speaker 3: I talked to a woman who owns a bed and
• 15:24
  Speaker 3: breakfast in Helena. I said, how's business going?
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  Speaker 1: She said, it's OK.
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  Speaker 3: But but boy, my my Canadian business is down to zero.
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  Speaker 3: We're getting no tourists. So so those are everywhere. It's
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  Speaker 3: a shame. Ask the chambers in Vegas and Orlando. How
• 15:37
  Speaker 3: much they miss Canadians. And so that's number one. Two
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  Speaker 3: and three are you tackle head-on housing and healthcare. I mean, housing,
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  Speaker 3: and we could talk for 10 minutes, but expanding supply
• 15:50
  Speaker 3: of housing, looking at funding mechanisms.
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  Speaker 1: Is that a federal issue or is that a state issue? Oh,
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: it's both, right?
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  Speaker 3: The federal government can incentivize zoning and code reform in
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  Speaker 3: communities to unlock more supply. You look at, and you
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  Speaker 3: could see the stats. I mean, the Montana Builders Association
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  Speaker 3: would tell you 30% of the cost of a house
• 16:09
  Speaker 3: is red tape. We could debate what that actually is,
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  Speaker 3: but simplifying those processes to unlock more supply is targeted
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  Speaker 3: investment as well in infrastructure. When you go, I was
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  Speaker 3: with the Cascade County Commissioner up in Great Falls, Montana,
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  Speaker 3: and there's development ready to go in, mile and a
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  Speaker 3: half of water, sewage, and road, right?
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  Speaker 2: That the county doesn't have the money for. Developer can't
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  Speaker 2: put it on its books.
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  Speaker 3: The federal government, rather than spending tens of billions of
• 16:36
  Speaker 3: dollars in Iran, or frankly, for a gilded ballroom or
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  Speaker 3: a grand arch, what if we were focused on smart,
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  Speaker 3: targeted infrastructure investment to unlock housing supply?
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  Speaker 1: That's the second.
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  Speaker 3: And third is healthcare. And four is antitrust. That's something
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  Speaker 3: that people aren't talking enough about in this country. When
• 16:53
  Speaker 3: we think about the affordability crisis, we need to enforce
• 16:57
  Speaker 3: the antitrust laws on the books in this country. You
• 16:59
  Speaker 3: look at the big meat packers, four firms control 85%
• 17:02
  Speaker 3: of the capacity. Four firms control 100% of the production
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  Speaker 3: capacity for the three main fertilizer nutrients. Big healthcare, big tech.
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  Speaker 3: Google was found guilty of antitrust violations last year. The
• 17:14
  Speaker 3: penalty was so small that the day after, their stock
• 17:17
  Speaker 3: price went up. Their market cap increased by $ 230 billion.
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  Speaker 3: Those are the nuanced things that, again, people aren't talking about,
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  Speaker 3: but that is absolutely a component of the affordability crisis
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  Speaker 3: that working families are seeing.
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  Speaker 1: I want to pick at the housing issue for a
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  Speaker 1: second because it feels like Montana is sending cross current messages.
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  Speaker 1: You know, a good friend of mine lives there and
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: says basically the state's divided between those who've been there
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: multiple generations and all these outsiders that want to move here.
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: And so there's this allergy to new development. And how
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: much does that impact the ability to get affordable housing?
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: You talked about, you know, there are probably, you know,
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: it's the same In some ways, there's a Venn diagram
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: with the data center outrage, right? Because I know this,
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: Montana is a very desirable place to build data centers
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: because of access to water. I have no doubt that's
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: an unpopular thing in so many parts of the state.
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: But affordable housing, I mean, look, this is an issue,
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: whether you're in suburban D.C. here where I am, where
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: every mini community is fighting for loosening zoning rules because
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: they don't want more development. I feel like that's a
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: bigger problem in this housing debate than this back and
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: forth between the feds and the states.
• 18:39
  Speaker 3: You know, look, I think what I'd tell you is
• 18:41
  Speaker 3: there's a big difference between a billionaire buying up a
• 18:46
  Speaker 3: ranch along Yellowstone River And what we're trying to think
• 18:50
  Speaker 3: about in terms of lower income or middle income housing
• 18:54
  Speaker 3: in Helena, Montana.
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: I would tell you about it. And it's OK if
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: it's a billionaire that does the development for that lower
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: income housing? You know what?
• 19:03
  Speaker 3: What we need to think about are funding sources and
• 19:07
  Speaker 3: some of the mechanisms. These are the boring things that
• 19:09
  Speaker 3: people don't want to talk about. But the 502 loans
• 19:12
  Speaker 3: that the USDA subsidizes for rural America.
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: For lower or middle-income housing.
• 19:18
  Speaker 3: You look at a project out, actually Habitat for Humanity,
• 19:21
  Speaker 3: I believe it's the largest project that Habitat's ever done
• 19:24
  Speaker 3: in the US. It's out in East Island of Montana,
• 19:27
  Speaker 3: the Rose Hill Project. It's bringing together a series of
• 19:31
  Speaker 3: different types of financing and it's building a neighborhood with
• 19:33
  Speaker 3: lower income entry homes, more middle-class homes. together using financing.
• 19:40
  Speaker 3: They're working with the city and the county to look
• 19:42
  Speaker 3: at zoning reform. Those are the types of projects that
• 19:45
  Speaker 3: I want to go down and I want to study.
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: I want to say, all right, what are the levers?
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: What are the federal sources of.
• 19:50
  Speaker 3: Funds that can unlock development like this? I mean, the
• 19:52
  Speaker 3: fact is we've got a decade at least of housing
• 19:56
  Speaker 3: stock that we're behind in this country. And so we
• 19:59
  Speaker 3: need to build more homes. And part of that is
• 20:02
  Speaker 3: loosening some zoning and having code reform and unlocking those supplies.
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: And it's also making sure that what.
• 20:10
  Speaker 3: We're doing is supporting the type of home building that
• 20:14
  Speaker 3: allows young families to have a start here. And I
• 20:16
  Speaker 3: was in Gardner, Montana, a couple of months ago. And
• 20:19
  Speaker 3: our recent graduate from the University of Montana, 2022 grad,
• 20:22
  Speaker 3: he's a music teacher down there.
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: His wife is with him.
• 20:25
  Speaker 3: And they had this beautiful baby daughter and they came
• 20:28
  Speaker 3: to a little event we just had in the middle
• 20:30
  Speaker 3: of the town square.
• 20:30
  Speaker 2: They're sitting at picnic tables and they said, we love
• 20:33
  Speaker 2: our jobs.
• 20:33
  Speaker 3: We feel so lucky and we're grateful. There's a nonprofit
• 20:37
  Speaker 3: that supports and subsidizes our housing. And they said, but
• 20:41
  Speaker 3: we're scared because if that ever goes away, we're out
• 20:43
  Speaker 3: in the cold and we have zero hope of ever
• 20:46
  Speaker 3: owning a home. So this is not a question of,
• 20:49
  Speaker 3: do we welcome more billionaires into Montana to gobble up
• 20:51
  Speaker 3: big ranches? This is a question of, How do we
• 20:54
  Speaker 3: unlock more housing supply and density for people like that,
• 20:58
  Speaker 3: for school teachers to be able to live in communities?
• 21:01
  Speaker 3: That's the main challenge that I think the federal government
• 21:04
  Speaker 3: can play a role in tackling.
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: This episode of the Chuck Todd cast is brought to
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  Speaker 1: was the Chuck Todd cast. It's the best way to
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  Speaker 1: support the show and the best way to make sure
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: you're getting every discount. Look, I've done a bunch of
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: research about, you know, there's always been this talk that
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: if you're you get elected as an independent, you don't
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: pick a party, which is what you've pledged to do.
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: that it could hurt you when it comes to committee assignments.
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: This is a bigger problem on the House side than
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: it is on the Senate side. Everybody, you know, ultimately
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: your committee assignment depends on what kind of relationship you
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: have with the committee chair and the ranking member. And,
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: you know, a lot of this is literally personal, sort
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: of personal politics more than it is partisan politics. But
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: it's not an unreasonable scenario that I could paint right now,
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: which is 49-49 and you and Dan Osborne are are
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: the deciders. And you both have pledged that you are
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: not going to caucus with either party. But if 49-49
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: would mean that J.D. Vance would be the tiebreaker if
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: you chose not to do that. How in ink is
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: that pledge to not be with either party? Could either
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: party talk you into a year or something like that. Well,
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: where are you on this?
• 24:50
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm not going to caucus, but this is an
• 24:52
  Speaker 3: important nuance, right? You don't have to go to the
• 24:54
  Speaker 3: lunch meeting. Everybody votes on the organizing resolution that determines
• 24:59
  Speaker 3: how the Senate forms.
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: So you plan to vote on the organizing resolution?
• 25:04
  Speaker 3: Every senator votes on the organizing resolution, whether they caucus
• 25:07
  Speaker 3: or not.
• 25:09
  Speaker 2: And that's an important distinction. Caucusing, I'm not going to caucus.
• 25:12
  Speaker 3: I'm not going to go put on a jersey, a
• 25:14
  Speaker 3: red jersey or a blue jersey.
• 25:16
  Speaker 2: But I'm going to vote.
• 25:17
  Speaker 3: I'm going to vote on every bill, including the organizing
• 25:20
  Speaker 3: resolution that decides how the Senate's organized. And that's an
• 25:25
  Speaker 3: important distinction. And when people say, oh, you can't get
• 25:27
  Speaker 3: committee assignments if you don't caucus.
• 25:29
  Speaker 2: Sure you can.
• 25:30
  Speaker 3: You get them the same way every other senator does,
• 25:32
  Speaker 3: through negotiation. And the other thing that people don't realize
• 25:36
  Speaker 3: about the Senate, I've talked to folks, I've had some indirect,
• 25:40
  Speaker 3: I haven't called the parliamentarian directly, but have talked to
• 25:44
  Speaker 3: some folks that almost half the votes you take in
• 25:47
  Speaker 3: the Senate are procedural vote, right?
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: Move to discuss, move.
• 25:52
  Speaker 3: And as an independent, you can make sure bills are
• 25:55
  Speaker 3: debated on the floor. So much just happens through the
• 25:58
  Speaker 3: leadership offices right now. Even these committee chairs that used
• 26:01
  Speaker 3: to have so much power, And I'm not in there,
• 26:04
  Speaker 3: but the folks I've talked to that said, you know,
• 26:06
  Speaker 3: used to be these committee chairs.
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: Were super big, powerful people. Max Baucus, man. Max Baucus
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: and Chuck Grassley. They didn't listen to their party leadership.
• 26:16
  Speaker 3: And now the committee staffs, they worry more about the
• 26:19
  Speaker 3: leader and whether that's a minority or majority leader than
• 26:23
  Speaker 3: they do the committee chairs. And so those are places
• 26:26
  Speaker 3: that any independent can go into any committee.
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: Is it safe to say, since we know Kurt Almey
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: is going to vote, you know, is running as a
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: Republican and will vote to organize with the Republicans, is
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: it pretty clear that you will organize with the Democrats
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: if you win?
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: I'm not going to organize with anybody. Again, I'm going.
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: To vote on which party you think should organize. And
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: if your vote is a vote that the Democrats need.
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: It sounds like that's what you're going to do.
• 26:55
  Speaker 3: Well, I'm going to I'm going to do what I
• 26:56
  Speaker 3: believe is best for Montana and what's best for the
• 26:58
  Speaker 3: United States of America. And I'm not going to make
• 27:01
  Speaker 3: any hypothetical guesses.
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: Are you are you negotiable?
• 27:04
  Speaker 3: I mean, yeah, I'm going to do what I think
• 27:06
  Speaker 3: is right for America.
• 27:07
  Speaker 2: And I'll tell you, I'm running against Kurt Almey.
• 27:10
  Speaker 3: And I jumped into this to challenge Steve Daines because
• 27:13
  Speaker 3: Steve Daines was nothing more than a rubber stamp for
• 27:15
  Speaker 3: whatever the Republican Party told him to do. And he's
• 27:19
  Speaker 3: working for them. And effectively, you saw Kurt Almey and
• 27:24
  Speaker 3: Steve Daines rig their own primary to put Kurt Almey
• 27:27
  Speaker 3: in place, perpetuating the exact problem that I was running against, saying,
• 27:32
  Speaker 3: all right, here you got a guy who is, it
• 27:34
  Speaker 3: was nothing more than a puppet for whatever the party
• 27:37
  Speaker 3: insiders tell him to do.
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: And I won't be that. Right.
• 27:40
  Speaker 3: And I can shape either party, frankly, to to to
• 27:44
  Speaker 3: to be more focused on places like Montana.
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: And and that's what I intend to do. Have you
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: talked with Lisa Murkowski or Angus King?
• 27:51
  Speaker 2: I haven't talked with, I haven't talked with either of them.
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: They're both, just for viewers, they're both independents who organize,
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: you know, voted to, one is with the, organizing with
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: the Democrats. Well, Angus King's an independent.
• 28:05
  Speaker 2: I think Lisa Murkowski is officially an independent, right?
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: She's still. They're both independents. Well, I didn't think Murkowski was.
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: I thought she was. I don't think she's a registered
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: Republican per se, or maybe she's an independent Republican. I don't,
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: you know, it's kind of like Manchin. I don't know
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: what it was. Yeah. Or Sinema. It was sort of,
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: Their party ID versus which side they organize with. I mean,
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: she's obviously, I think, a committee chair. So, yeah. Yeah.
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: On that front. But you haven't had any conversations about. No,
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: you have five or six of you and you can
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: have a lot of leverage.
• 28:37
  Speaker 2: And that's the interesting thing, right?
• 28:39
  Speaker 3: That a small block of independent-minded senators, even if they
• 28:44
  Speaker 3: don't officially leave their caucus, right? If I have the
• 28:47
  Speaker 3: honor of serving Montana in the Senate, I'm going to
• 28:51
  Speaker 3: absolutely work with people like Angus King, with people like
• 28:53
  Speaker 3: Lisa Murkowski, with other senators from the West, people like
• 28:57
  Speaker 3: Martin Heinrich, where there's common interest. I mean, you think
• 29:00
  Speaker 3: about Martin Heinrich or Lisa Murkowski, they're large tribal communities
• 29:05
  Speaker 3: in our states, public lands in our states, like a
• 29:08
  Speaker 3: lot of issues.
• 29:10
  Speaker 2: That frankly, I don't think are getting enough attention.
• 29:12
  Speaker 3: I mean, from either party, to be honest with you,
• 29:14
  Speaker 3: I don't think the national democratic party has paid enough
• 29:17
  Speaker 3: attention to rural America. And, and I don't think the national,
• 29:20
  Speaker 3: I think the national Republican party has taken rural America
• 29:23
  Speaker 3: completely for granted. And so what I plan to do is,
• 29:27
  Speaker 3: is work with other independent minded senators around issues for
• 29:31
  Speaker 3: which there's alignment and And you get a group of
• 29:34
  Speaker 3: four or five, and you can dictate a lot of
• 29:37
  Speaker 3: the direction of the United States Senate in a really
• 29:39
  Speaker 3: positive way for money.
• 29:40
  Speaker 2: And frankly for the country.
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: Did you directly make an appeal to Eleni Bankhead to
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: drop out? No, I never did. And she has plenty
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: of people from your right. Plenty of people from your
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: team have asked her, right?
• 29:55
  Speaker 2: Nobody from my team. My campaign never did that.
• 29:58
  Speaker 3: My campaign never, never asked.
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: It's just supporters. I think the other people did.
• 30:02
  Speaker 2: I mean, that's the mess of this, right?
• 30:04
  Speaker 3: As you've got all these independent entities and all the
• 30:08
  Speaker 3: independent spending. And it's a mess. This is why our
• 30:11
  Speaker 3: politics is so broken. There's so much outside money. Of
• 30:14
  Speaker 3: which you have zero control, right? So we have a
• 30:17
  Speaker 3: scenario in Montana right now where, again, I'm running as
• 30:20
  Speaker 3: an independent. You have the leadership of the National Republican
• 30:24
  Speaker 3: Party who rigged their own party primary to put in
• 30:27
  Speaker 3: place their puppet. And then you have that same person,
• 30:32
  Speaker 3: Steve Daines, his super PAC is the largest supporter of
• 30:34
  Speaker 3: the Democratic, the person on the Democratic ticket. And because
• 30:39
  Speaker 3: his PAC, more jobs, less government, supporting the person on
• 30:42
  Speaker 3: the Democratic ticket, attacking me.
• 30:44
  Speaker 2: I mean, it's nonsense. Now, what we've done is we've said, look,
• 30:48
  Speaker 2: we started this.
• 30:49
  Speaker 3: We get on as an independent and we collected nearly
• 30:51
  Speaker 3: 30,000 signatures from 52 different counties.
• 30:55
  Speaker 2: We've gone out the vast majority.
• 30:57
  Speaker 3: I can't remember the exact percent, but close to 90%
• 31:00
  Speaker 3: of our donations are from individuals.
• 31:01
  Speaker 2: We're not taking any corporate PAC money. We're going around
• 31:04
  Speaker 2: the state.
• 31:05
  Speaker 3: We are talking to people and we have more individual
• 31:08
  Speaker 3: donations than all the other campaigns combined.
• 31:12
  Speaker 2: Outraised all the other campaigns combined.
• 31:14
  Speaker 3: But then you have this flood of outside money that
• 31:16
  Speaker 3: comes in attacking me, boosting the Republican, boosting the person
• 31:21
  Speaker 3: on the Democratic ticket.
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: And it's it's it's a mess. Do you you think
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: she should drop out? Would it be easier if she
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: dropped out? Of course.
• 31:31
  Speaker 3: Be easier if the Republican dropped out, too. I'd like
• 31:34
  Speaker 3: to see them both drop out. But but that's not
• 31:38
  Speaker 3: the race that we plan to run. You know, we
• 31:40
  Speaker 3: always we planned always to run a four way race.
• 31:42
  Speaker 3: There's a libertarian on the ticket. And I think what
• 31:45
  Speaker 3: we're what we're finding, especially in the last month, we've
• 31:48
  Speaker 3: seen our poll numbers increasing. You know, two months ago,
• 31:52
  Speaker 3: we were about 15 points back. Um, we saw a
• 31:55
  Speaker 3: poll about a month ago that had us eight points back.
• 31:57
  Speaker 3: And then we saw a poll that was about a
• 31:59
  Speaker 3: month and a half ago. We saw a poll about
• 32:00
  Speaker 3: three or four weeks ago that said among people that
• 32:03
  Speaker 3: have heard our messaging, we were actually up five points. Uh,
• 32:06
  Speaker 3: and then we saw a poll last week that showed
• 32:08
  Speaker 3: us up two points and there's polls that show us down,
• 32:11
  Speaker 3: but there's polls that show us up and, but the
• 32:13
  Speaker 3: trend is clear. Uh, and we're building a coalition, you know, of, of, unions,
• 32:18
  Speaker 3: of conservation groups, of reproductive freedom groups, of veterans groups,
• 32:23
  Speaker 3: of anti-corruption groups, of Republicans and Democrats who are looking
• 32:27
  Speaker 3: for a better way.
• 32:28
  Speaker 2: I mean, the largest voting bloc here is independent.
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: It's not Republican. It's not Democrat. Do you think you'd
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: have more credibility, actually, if you ran... if you won
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: with an active Democratic nominee and an active Republican nominee? Absolutely.
• 32:41
  Speaker 2: I mean, I think that's why this race is interesting, right?
• 32:44
  Speaker 3: Because this race is interesting, not in spite of the
• 32:49
  Speaker 3: Democrats staying in, but I think it's interesting because You know,
• 32:54
  Speaker 3: there's a person on the Democratic ticket and a person
• 32:56
  Speaker 3: on the Republican ticket, because we hear again and again
• 32:59
  Speaker 3: that I mean, the last Gallup survey, I think, said
• 33:02
  Speaker 3: 47 percent of Americans when asked their political affiliation say independent.
• 33:08
  Speaker 3: And yet we don't have any true independents that don't
• 33:13
  Speaker 3: cause me. We have again, we have some that vote independently,
• 33:15
  Speaker 3: which I appreciate. But but I think that's what this
• 33:18
  Speaker 3: race provides, an opportunity to say, look, An independent can win.
• 33:22
  Speaker 3: The common sense majority. I mean, it's football season. You're
• 33:25
  Speaker 3: a sports fan. I mean, what I've heard again and
• 33:27
  Speaker 3: again going around this state is that politically, most Montanans
• 33:31
  Speaker 3: live between the 25-yard lines. You know, you've got somebody
• 33:35
  Speaker 3: that's the 40-yard line on the left or the 40-yard
• 33:37
  Speaker 3: line on the right. but they're stuck with the loudest
• 33:41
  Speaker 3: voices and their parties being at the one yard line.
• 33:43
  Speaker 3: I mean, the number of Republicans that have said to
• 33:45
  Speaker 3: me this cycle, something to the effect, one guy said it,
• 33:48
  Speaker 3: one guy from Great Falls said this exact sentence. He said,
• 33:51
  Speaker 3: I've been a lifelong Republican. I hate my party right now.
• 33:55
  Speaker 3: My challenge is I hate the other party a little
• 33:57
  Speaker 3: bit more. So I'm glad you're giving me an alternative.
• 34:00
  Speaker 3: And what a sad state of politics.
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: Oh, we're definitely negative. Polarization is sort of the trap
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: that I think this is the paralysis. I mean, The voters,
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: I always say the voters only have two ways they
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: can communicate frustration. One is voting and one is which
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: party they choose to register. And they've done two things consistently.
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: They vote out of the incumbents, whoever they are, every
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: two years. I mean, we're going to have 100 new
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: members of Congress again. We keep, you know, 12, 11
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: of the last 13 national elections we've thrown out. Either,
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: you know, the party controlling the House, the Senate or
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: the White House. Or they decide they don't, you know,
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: want to register with either major party. We're up to,
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: we're getting closer and closer. to half the country refusing
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: to register with either major party. So let me ask this.
• 34:43
  Speaker 2: Founders foresaw this though, right?
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: That's the thing. They did. I mean, George Washington. Well,
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: Washington foresaw it. Others. So did Adams. Sure.
• 34:53
  Speaker 2: Adams said the thing.
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: So did Madison. Madison was fine with factions. He just
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: didn't want two. I think he wanted 200. Exactly.
• 35:00
  Speaker 3: Maybe not 200, but that's the issue is that when
• 35:04
  Speaker 3: you get to this duopoly, right? This is the natural state, right?
• 35:09
  Speaker 3: This is what Washington warned us about when he talked
• 35:11
  Speaker 3: about the baneful effects.
• 35:12
  Speaker 1: Of the spirit of party. Look, you've in our conversation,
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: I think, made it easy for me to see someone
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: in the center left feeling comfortable with you. Why should
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: someone in the center right feel comfortable with you representing them?
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: That gentleman you talked about saying he doesn't like his party,
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: doesn't like the other party more. He appreciates that you're
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: giving him a choice here. Well, What do you think
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: is an issue where you probably will side with a
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: majority of Senate Republicans on a handful of things? Give
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: me a couple of those issues.
• 35:44
  Speaker 3: Well, look, I believe that we should have strong borders
• 35:46
  Speaker 3: and that we should enforce our immigration laws.
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: And I believe that we can do that.
• 35:50
  Speaker 3: I believe we must do that without infringing on the
• 35:53
  Speaker 3: individual liberties of American citizens or trampling due process rights
• 35:56
  Speaker 3: and that we need comprehensive immigration reform. And you talk
• 36:00
  Speaker 3: to farmers in Montana, the H-2A visa program is vitally important.
• 36:03
  Speaker 2: I mean, that's how they run their operation.
• 36:06
  Speaker 3: And they're just as sick as you and I are
• 36:09
  Speaker 3: of immigration reform being used as a political, you know,
• 36:14
  Speaker 3: bludgeon as rather than as a problem they need to solve.
• 36:18
  Speaker 3: Another one's the national debt. I mean, our national debt
• 36:20
  Speaker 3: just sort of a 40 trillion dollars. And nobody's doing
• 36:26
  Speaker 3: anything about it. I mean, it's gone up $ 4 trillion
• 36:29
  Speaker 3: just since Donald Trump took office. Who's talking about that?
• 36:33
  Speaker 3: Who's actually leaning into a very real crisis? I mean,
• 36:36
  Speaker 3: Admiral Mullen called that 15 years ago, the largest national
• 36:39
  Speaker 3: security challenge that we face.
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: The other one is national security.
• 36:43
  Speaker 2: You know, I recorded a video the other day.
• 36:46
  Speaker 3: I said, look, Ronald Reagan and Dwight Eisenhower, two Republican
• 36:49
  Speaker 3: presidents that are rolling over in their grave right now
• 36:51
  Speaker 3: as they watch our current president.
• 36:53
  Speaker 1: Aid and abet a dictator in Russia.
• 36:56
  Speaker 3: You know, Republicans that I know, I thought they were
• 36:59
  Speaker 3: for standing up to the Soviet Union. Vladimir Putin wants
• 37:01
  Speaker 3: nothing more than to restore the glory of the Soviet Union.
• 37:05
  Speaker 2: And he's attacking his neighbors.
• 37:06
  Speaker 3: And our current president, who calls himself a Republican, is
• 37:10
  Speaker 3: aiding and abetting.
• 37:11
  Speaker 1: That all the way. Anything Trump getting right in your mind?
• 37:16
  Speaker 3: Look, I think some of the focus that he talked about, right?
• 37:20
  Speaker 3: He said, hey, let's talk about affordability, getting out of
• 37:24
  Speaker 3: forever wars. These are things that he talked about that
• 37:27
  Speaker 3: was right. He hadn't delivered, right? The Republican Congress hasn't delivered.
• 37:33
  Speaker 3: I think you have seen some movement around, I mean, look,
• 37:36
  Speaker 3: I think having strong borders Makes sense, right?
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: We need that.
• 37:41
  Speaker 3: We needed to recalibrate there. But the way that they've
• 37:44
  Speaker 3: let ICE run rampant is inexcusable.
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: I mean, we see ICE treating.
• 37:48
  Speaker 3: I mean, I would never have let a soldier in
• 37:51
  Speaker 3: my platoon in Iraq treat an Iraqi civilian the way
• 37:54
  Speaker 3: I see ICE agents treating people in this country.
• 37:57
  Speaker 1: That's not....
• 37:59
  Speaker 2: You know, I think we've seen.
• 38:02
  Speaker 3: Some movement on prescription drug prices, which I appreciate the
• 38:05
  Speaker 3: focus on letting the federal government negotiate more aggressively on
• 38:09
  Speaker 3: prescription drug prices.
• 38:11
  Speaker 2: Those are some of the types of things that.
• 38:14
  Speaker 2: I think, have made sense. I think this administration's lost focus.
• 38:18
  Speaker 3: And I think this administration has been enabled by a
• 38:21
  Speaker 3: completely pliant Republican Party that's not doing their constitutional duty.
• 38:27
  Speaker 3: I mean, checks and balances are good for everybody, but
• 38:29
  Speaker 3: unchecked power and one party rule doesn't work.
• 38:42
  Speaker 1: I want to drill down a second on healthcare. One
• 38:44
  Speaker 1: of the ways I've described the public's frustration with healthcare
• 38:47
  Speaker 1: this time and compared it with 2008, you know, Obamacare
• 38:51
  Speaker 1: solved the access issue. Now, he promised it was also
• 38:55
  Speaker 1: going to solve affordability. It did not solve affordability. But
• 38:58
  Speaker 1: the good news is we've got access. Pre-existing conditions are
• 39:02
  Speaker 1: not an issue anymore. So the access issue is no longer,
• 39:06
  Speaker 1: you know, in theory, healthcare is there for anybody that
• 39:09
  Speaker 1: can afford to get it, right? The real issue is affordability,
• 39:15
  Speaker 1: which is why I think I've seen a growing number
• 39:18
  Speaker 1: of Americans kind of default to Medicare for all. And
• 39:23
  Speaker 1: I think it's simply, you know, my interpretation when you
• 39:26
  Speaker 1: look at it, I've drilled into this issue quite a bit,
• 39:28
  Speaker 1: it's not necessarily they're saying they want socialized medicine. What
• 39:32
  Speaker 1: they're basically saying is they want more affordable healthcare and
• 39:34
  Speaker 1: this Medicare business feels like it's more affordable. And at
• 39:39
  Speaker 1: least it's somebody attempting the answer. Where are you in
• 39:42
  Speaker 1: for Medicare for all? And if you're not for that,
• 39:45
  Speaker 1: what is your answer to the affordability issue?
• 39:48
  Speaker 3: Yeah, look, I believe that we need a universal coverage
• 39:51
  Speaker 3: option for every American.
• 39:52
  Speaker 1: We have to.
• 39:53
  Speaker 3: And, you know, you're right about the Affordable Care Act
• 39:56
  Speaker 3: that did expand coverage that that bill has been chipped
• 39:59
  Speaker 3: away at. You know, we saw the subsidies eliminated this
• 40:02
  Speaker 3: last year, and that's caused, I think, a 26 percent
• 40:06
  Speaker 3: spike in insurance premiums. You're seeing Medicaid under constant attack.
• 40:10
  Speaker 3: You know, this big, beautiful bill that gave a trillion
• 40:12
  Speaker 3: dollars of tax cuts to the wealthy in this country.
• 40:14
  Speaker 3: created these paperwork traps in terms of Medicaid eligibility verification
• 40:18
  Speaker 3: processes that are estimated Medicaid.
• 40:21
  Speaker 1: I have said Medicaid is basically universal catastrophic health care
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: for Americans. Is that how we should frame it now?
• 40:30
  Speaker 1: I don't know that it's catastrophic.
• 40:31
  Speaker 3: I mean, Medicaid funds 40% of the births in the
• 40:35
  Speaker 3: state of Montana.
• 40:37
  Speaker 2: Medicaid is in rural communities.
• 40:41
  Speaker 3: And when we see these changes, it's effective cuts to Medicaid.
• 40:46
  Speaker 3: About 30,000 Montanans are estimated to lose their health care
• 40:48
  Speaker 3: over the next 12 months.
• 40:50
  Speaker 2: You know who's going to suffer most from that? Our
• 40:52
  Speaker 2: rural communities.
• 40:53
  Speaker 3: Rural hospitals are in absolute crisis. And so what we
• 40:57
  Speaker 3: need to do is immediately restore the ACA tax subsidies.
• 41:02
  Speaker 3: We need to protect Medicaid expansion, and we need to
• 41:04
  Speaker 3: reverse these paperwork traps and prevent 30,000 Montanans from losing
• 41:10
  Speaker 3: access to their healthcare.
• 41:10
  Speaker 2: Those are the immediate fixes.
• 41:12
  Speaker 3: Longer term, I would wanna work toward a comprehensive healthcare reform,
• 41:17
  Speaker 3: which we desperately need.
• 41:19
  Speaker 2: We desperately need.
• 41:20
  Speaker 3: I believe strongly that in the richest country in the world,
• 41:24
  Speaker 3: No one should go bankrupt just because they get sick.
• 41:27
  Speaker 3: That's inexcusable. And we can get to a scenario where
• 41:30
  Speaker 3: that doesn't happen. I think getting to universal access. But
• 41:33
  Speaker 3: you made the right point. We got to address the costs.
• 41:37
  Speaker 3: And that's going to take a couple of things. One,
• 41:38
  Speaker 3: changing the incentives. Right now, our health insurance system, and
• 41:42
  Speaker 3: I'm married to a pediatrician, so I see this all
• 41:45
  Speaker 3: the time. Our health care system doesn't value prevention and
• 41:49
  Speaker 3: people staying healthy. People only get paid when they make
• 41:52
  Speaker 3: treatments for people that are sick. So you need to
• 41:54
  Speaker 3: change the incentives. And then you need much, much, much
• 41:57
  Speaker 3: tighter regulation of the big insurance and big pharma. The
• 42:02
  Speaker 3: profiteering and the waste and the middlemen in this system,
• 42:06
  Speaker 3: we need to tackle that hard.
• 42:08
  Speaker 2: And I'm not naive to think that that's a simple challenge.
• 42:11
  Speaker 3: But I was with the CFO and CEO of Bozeman
• 42:14
  Speaker 3: Healthcare a couple of months ago. And we were just
• 42:16
  Speaker 3: talking about the hospital and the challenges they face. And,
• 42:19
  Speaker 3: you know, the CFO walked me through a dispute they'd
• 42:22
  Speaker 3: been in with an insurance company where a guy who
• 42:24
  Speaker 3: came in on his deathbed, they saved his life. He
• 42:27
  Speaker 3: had a two day hospital stay. He had insurance. They
• 42:30
  Speaker 3: build the insurance company. They got back denied, not medically necessary.
• 42:35
  Speaker 3: So what did that hospital do? They had to spend
• 42:37
  Speaker 3: money to fight that. 180 days later, they finally get paid.
• 42:40
  Speaker 3: But think about even the cost of money, let alone
• 42:42
  Speaker 3: the additional staffing. The insurance company didn't pay a penalty, right?
• 42:47
  Speaker 3: They shouldn't be able to do that scot-free. So those
• 42:50
  Speaker 3: are the types of things that I think we could
• 42:52
  Speaker 3: do to get to a universal care option for every American.
• 42:54
  Speaker 3: And that's what I would work toward. I want to
• 42:58
  Speaker 3: talk a little bit about your time as a university president.
• 43:01
  Speaker 3: You were sort of, you had to deal with COVID.
• 43:04
  Speaker 1: Deal with sort of the politicizing of all things academia.
• 43:12
  Speaker 1: There is this movement on the right that is anti-college
• 43:18
  Speaker 1: education at the moment. How do we reverse that? You know.
• 43:25
  Speaker 2: An educated citizenry is the bulwark of the republic. And
• 43:28
  Speaker 2: our founders said that.
• 43:30
  Speaker 3: You know, who was the biggest and loudest and one
• 43:32
  Speaker 3: of the early proponents for free public education, he was
• 43:36
  Speaker 3: talking about K-12, was Ulysses S.
• 43:38
  Speaker 1: Grant.
• 43:40
  Speaker 3: You look at a speech that Grant gave as president
• 43:43
  Speaker 3: in 1875 in Iowa.
• 43:45
  Speaker 2: He was talking about 200 Civil War veterans.
• 43:48
  Speaker 3: And he talked about education as the thing that was
• 43:51
  Speaker 3: needed to protect the prize that they had battled so
• 43:56
  Speaker 3: hard for. And the idea of free public education is
• 44:04
  Speaker 3: foundational to the American dream itself. And I think what
• 44:07
  Speaker 3: we've seen, sadly, is many people, often Ivy League educated politicians,
• 44:13
  Speaker 3: mind you, saying don't get educated. And that is, you know,
• 44:19
  Speaker 3: It's antithetical to the American dream. And it's about as
• 44:25
  Speaker 3: strategically stupid as you possibly could be. Because I'll tell
• 44:27
  Speaker 3: you one thing that the Chinese are absolutely not telling
• 44:30
  Speaker 3: their kids, don't get educated, right? And when I look
• 44:34
  Speaker 3: back to past generations, when we faced a challenge, I
• 44:38
  Speaker 3: talk often at campaign events about October of 1957. I
• 44:43
  Speaker 3: do a little quiz of, you know, what was the
• 44:44
  Speaker 3: big global event that happened in October of 1957? Usually
• 44:47
  Speaker 3: there's one person that can tell me. And it was Sputnik.
• 44:51
  Speaker 3: Sputnik launched. The Soviets were ahead. In the technology of
• 44:55
  Speaker 3: our day, America was behind. And what did our leaders
• 44:58
  Speaker 3: do at that moment? Did they use that fear that
• 45:01
  Speaker 3: Americans had for political gain? No.
• 45:04
  Speaker 2: You had a democratically controlled Congress.
• 45:06
  Speaker 3: Actually, the majority whip in that Democratic Senate, a guy
• 45:10
  Speaker 3: by the name of Mike Mansfield from the great state
• 45:12
  Speaker 3: of Montana, the Democrats pulled together to pass a bill
• 45:16
  Speaker 3: for Republican President Dwight Eisenhower to sign and get a
• 45:19
  Speaker 3: victory as a good West Point grad. That bill was
• 45:23
  Speaker 3: the National Defense Education Act. That was a generation that said, look,
• 45:27
  Speaker 3: we're behind. We face challenges. And what we need to
• 45:30
  Speaker 3: do is invest in education and bet.
• 45:34
  Speaker 1: On our youth.
• 45:34
  Speaker 3: And we've seen the opposite of that. And it's to
• 45:37
  Speaker 3: the great detriment of not just opportunity in this country,
• 45:41
  Speaker 3: but the long-term health and security of this country.
• 45:44
  Speaker 1: If you were currently president of University of Montana, how
• 45:47
  Speaker 1: would you be dealing with AI and how would you
• 45:50
  Speaker 1: be changing? Would you, I don't want to assume you do.
• 45:54
  Speaker 1: Would you be changing a focus of curriculum? I say
• 45:58
  Speaker 1: this is, look, my kids, I have one out of college,
• 46:01
  Speaker 1: one still in college, but when they were in grade school,
• 46:04
  Speaker 1: you know, all of the peer pressure was, boy, your
• 46:06
  Speaker 1: kids better learn to code. Right. And then AI happened. And,
• 46:09
  Speaker 1: you know, we got sort of, Every university went down
• 46:12
  Speaker 1: this STEM road and now every university went, oh, no. Where,
• 46:19
  Speaker 1: you know, did you, where are you, where were you
• 46:22
  Speaker 1: on this? Where are, where would you be?
• 46:24
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 46:25
  Speaker 1: Because you may provide a unique insight if you are
• 46:27
  Speaker 1: elected to the Senate about sort of how we, how
• 46:33
  Speaker 1: AI is used in our education system. Yeah.
• 46:36
  Speaker 3: I mean, look, and this is this is a long
• 46:40
  Speaker 3: arc of how education in this country has had to adapt.
• 46:44
  Speaker 2: And, you know, it's really interesting.
• 46:46
  Speaker 3: I went to West Point and the president of Harvard
• 46:50
  Speaker 3: made a speech at West Point 12 years ago, Drew Faust.
• 46:53
  Speaker 3: It's called West Point, the last true example of a
• 46:55
  Speaker 3: liberal arts college that combines study in the sciences. Everybody
• 47:00
  Speaker 3: has to have at least when I was there, a
• 47:02
  Speaker 3: a track close to a minor in engineering. You have
• 47:06
  Speaker 3: professional training in the summers where you go learn how
• 47:09
  Speaker 3: to jump out of airplanes and shoot rifles. But yet
• 47:13
  Speaker 3: you're learning philosophy and history. And you're reading poetry. And
• 47:20
  Speaker 3: that was actually, when I was at the University of Montana,
• 47:22
  Speaker 3: that was some of the change that we were trying
• 47:24
  Speaker 3: to make. Because Joseph Aoun, the president of Northeastern University,
• 47:28
  Speaker 3: wrote a good book, about at least 10 years old now,
• 47:30
  Speaker 3: called Robot Proof. And his argument, which I think is
• 47:33
  Speaker 3: a sound one, it says, in a world in which
• 47:35
  Speaker 3: anything can be automated, will be automated, right?
• 47:38
  Speaker 1: That's the world we live in.
• 47:40
  Speaker 3: The task of education is to develop in students those
• 47:44
  Speaker 3: uniquely human capacities of problem solving, of critical thinking, of
• 47:50
  Speaker 3: working in teams, of communicating effectively. And so I think
• 47:54
  Speaker 3: what higher education needs to do is to focus on
• 47:58
  Speaker 3: building those uniquely human capacities. Yes, giving the data fluency,
• 48:02
  Speaker 3: technical fluency, that's important. But what we were doing at
• 48:05
  Speaker 3: the University of Montana is we said, look, Students spend 15%
• 48:08
  Speaker 3: of their time in the classroom, 85% of their time outside.
• 48:12
  Speaker 3: So what are we doing in terms of residence life?
• 48:15
  Speaker 3: What are we doing in terms of our student activities
• 48:18
  Speaker 3: even to develop those social emotional capacities that for a
• 48:22
  Speaker 3: generation that has been so locked in on their phones
• 48:26
  Speaker 3: and for especially those who had COVID as part of
• 48:29
  Speaker 3: their young experience? developing those social emotional skills is an
• 48:34
  Speaker 3: important part of the maturation process that comes from an
• 48:36
  Speaker 3: in-person college experience.
• 48:39
  Speaker 1: So it's interesting you brought up the West Point aspect
• 48:41
  Speaker 1: because we were talking earlier about I'm friendly with the
• 48:46
  Speaker 1: president of SMU who came from a public university and
• 48:50
  Speaker 1: he was asked this AI question at the Texas Trip
• 48:52
  Speaker 1: Festival last year. And he basically said he wanted to
• 48:55
  Speaker 1: slowly shift. He thought that that universities that offered a
• 49:02
  Speaker 1: more classical sense, right? Your literature, your English, that that
• 49:07
  Speaker 1: would probably be what higher education was in the 1950s,
• 49:12
  Speaker 1: maybe what it is in the 2050s. Yeah.
• 49:14
  Speaker 3: And I think that's right. Now, what I also say
• 49:17
  Speaker 3: is that you have to be AI literate.
• 49:19
  Speaker 1: You have to.
• 49:20
  Speaker 3: Understand the basics of data analysis. You have to understand
• 49:24
  Speaker 3: at least how to use AI. I liken it to
• 49:28
  Speaker 3: being able to ride a bike. You have to have
• 49:31
  Speaker 3: literacy there. But if you don't have the ability to
• 49:35
  Speaker 3: think If you don't have the ability to ask the
• 49:38
  Speaker 3: right questions, you're not going to succeed in an AI-focused
• 49:43
  Speaker 3: world any more than you could in a pre-AI world.
• 49:47
  Speaker 3: So I would tend to agree that getting back to
• 49:49
  Speaker 3: that foundational education– and I have two kids that are–
• 49:53
  Speaker 3: juniors in.
• 49:53
  Speaker 1: High school now.
• 49:54
  Speaker 3: And and I'm thinking about that with them. You know,
• 49:57
  Speaker 3: what what do you think about? What do you optimize for?
• 50:01
  Speaker 3: And it's not it's it's not the same optimization equation.
• 50:05
  Speaker 1: That it was a decade ago. And I president Hartzell,
• 50:09
  Speaker 1: I'm going to get you out of here on football.
• 50:11
  Speaker 1: And I'm going to do it through the prism of
• 50:13
  Speaker 1: the University of Montana. It's a proud football tradition. There's
• 50:16
  Speaker 1: nothing like the Montana, Montana state. Yeah. Rivalry. That's a
• 50:20
  Speaker 1: great rivalry. One that, that if you're a college football fan,
• 50:23
  Speaker 1: you learn about over time. Um, but look, uh, there's
• 50:28
  Speaker 1: been lots of speculation that the university of Montana might
• 50:31
  Speaker 1: move up from FCS to FBS, get into the mountain
• 50:34
  Speaker 1: West was a rumor a couple of years ago. Um,
• 50:36
  Speaker 1: it comes with a huge cost issue and the cost
• 50:39
  Speaker 1: of participating in, in, in division one, uh, college sports
• 50:44
  Speaker 1: is only growing. Um, There's probably a party view that
• 50:48
  Speaker 1: is the quote fan or sort of the cheerleader for
• 50:52
  Speaker 1: Montana football thinking one way. Is it financially feasible for
• 50:56
  Speaker 1: the University of Montana to do this?
• 50:58
  Speaker 3: I mean, look, what we, I think, are going to
• 51:01
  Speaker 3: see over the next few years is a realignment. You know,
• 51:04
  Speaker 3: I think you've got When you look at athletic programs
• 51:09
  Speaker 3: around this country, I mean, it's probably not much more
• 51:12
  Speaker 3: than 10. And I haven't looked at the financial filings
• 51:15
  Speaker 3: that actually net money each year, right? Most athletics departments,
• 51:21
  Speaker 3: you know, this old adage, oh, they're making money for
• 51:23
  Speaker 3: these colleges.
• 51:24
  Speaker 1: No, they're not.
• 51:25
  Speaker 2: These are what when the army used to call self-licking
• 51:27
  Speaker 2: ice cream cones.
• 51:28
  Speaker 3: Every dollar they bring in, you know, goes to further.
• 51:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, there's an interesting parallel. I've noticed the most- And
• 51:35
  Speaker 1: I say this, my beloved University of Miami is benefiting
• 51:38
  Speaker 1: from this. UT Austin is benefiting from this. If you
• 51:41
  Speaker 1: have a university health system, which is a nonprofit, which
• 51:46
  Speaker 1: gets it to the whole, it is the craziest thing.
• 51:48
  Speaker 1: Nonprofit hospital and health systems are more cash rich than
• 51:52
  Speaker 1: for-profit health systems. Discuss. If you want to know why
• 51:56
  Speaker 1: people think there's a problem with capitalism, I hand you
• 51:59
  Speaker 1: that riddle. But- Yeah, if it wasn't for healthcare, I
• 52:06
  Speaker 1: don't know if Ohio State, Miami, or Texas would have
• 52:09
  Speaker 1: the payrolls that they have.
• 52:11
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and I think what we need to eventually see,
• 52:14
  Speaker 3: you know, Kent Syverudin, Kent was the chancellor at Syracuse,
• 52:18
  Speaker 3: and he was part of the, I think what they
• 52:20
  Speaker 3: call the college football, college student football league. You know,
• 52:25
  Speaker 3: they were talking about this, and his point was, look,
• 52:27
  Speaker 3: there's only one professional sports league that doesn't have um,
• 52:32
  Speaker 3: antitrust exemption and collective bargaining. The only professional sports league
• 52:36
  Speaker 3: that doesn't have that as college sports. And, uh, and,
• 52:39
  Speaker 3: and you look at, you know, there's probably 30 to
• 52:42
  Speaker 3: 40 schools that year, each year are going to have
• 52:45
  Speaker 3: a chance at the CFP, right.
• 52:47
  Speaker 2: And then have the resources to compete at that level.
• 52:49
  Speaker 3: And I think we'd be better served as a country, uh,
• 52:52
  Speaker 3: If if we just leaned into the reality of that
• 52:55
  Speaker 3: and you saw this.
• 52:56
  Speaker 1: You would almost split that off and let it be
• 52:58
  Speaker 1: like that professional league, professional college league, bargaining, all of
• 53:04
  Speaker 1: that toward that.
• 53:05
  Speaker 2: And then you have the University of Montana as the.
• 53:08
  Speaker 3: The frankly, the University of Wyoming's, the New Mexico, Utah State's,
• 53:14
  Speaker 3: you know, North Dakota State.
• 53:15
  Speaker 1: You have those those schools that.
• 53:18
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 53:18
  Speaker 2: I mean, I think players should should benefit.
• 53:20
  Speaker 3: Right. I don't think coaches should reap all of it. Like,
• 53:22
  Speaker 3: but you could have a more reasonable. But right now
• 53:26
  Speaker 3: we have an NC. I think you can create a
• 53:28
  Speaker 3: two tier system. I think that's where it's headed. And
• 53:32
  Speaker 3: I'm speaking out of school because I haven't watched this recently.
• 53:34
  Speaker 1: No, but have you paid attention to this Protect College
• 53:37
  Speaker 1: Sports Act? Yeah.
• 53:39
  Speaker 3: I don't think that gets us ultimately where we need
• 53:42
  Speaker 3: to be. I mean, I think what.
• 53:44
  Speaker 1: You're... In my opinion, it's the Protect Big Ten and
• 53:47
  Speaker 1: SEC Act.
• 53:48
  Speaker 2: That's exactly right. What you need to do is protect.
• 53:52
  Speaker 3: the great tradition of the university of Montana and Montana state.
• 53:55
  Speaker 3: And to say that, like, I mean, I don't know
• 53:58
  Speaker 3: how much the quarterback for Michigan makes this year, but
• 54:00
  Speaker 3: it's gotta be 3.
• 54:02
  Speaker 2: Million, $ 4 million.
• 54:03
  Speaker 3: I mean, it's, it's, it's, and to have the same
• 54:07
  Speaker 3: governance structure for the university of Montana is, and the
• 54:10
  Speaker 3: university of michigan um it doesn't make sense and i
• 54:14
  Speaker 3: mean and then we have the same governance structure for
• 54:16
  Speaker 3: a soccer player at the university of montana as we
• 54:18
  Speaker 3: do for the quarterback of the university of michigan i
• 54:20
  Speaker 3: mean i think we just have to be honest about
• 54:22
  Speaker 3: where we are and and actually create roles so you
• 54:25
  Speaker 3: have i mean you can have a really interesting uh
• 54:29
  Speaker 3: uh exciting national championship with big flagship schools and places
• 54:35
  Speaker 3: like Montana and and Wyoming and New Mexico and Utah
• 54:40
  Speaker 3: and some of these smaller flagships.
• 54:41
  Speaker 1: Great football.
• 54:43
  Speaker 3: And then we could still enjoy, you know, the college
• 54:45
  Speaker 3: football playoff and those schools. But I think we just
• 54:48
  Speaker 3: have to be honest about a realignment.
• 54:53
  Speaker 1: I think it's going to be great if North Dakota
• 54:55
  Speaker 1: State's the 12th team in the college football playoff, though,
• 54:57
  Speaker 1: don't you think? Oh, I think it'd be great, too.
• 54:59
  Speaker 1: I mean, the idea, you know, I don't want to
• 55:01
  Speaker 1: see it at 40, right? I like the idea, you know,
• 55:05
  Speaker 1: maybe it's 80, you know, maybe we can get that big. But,
• 55:10
  Speaker 1: you know, I always say the beauty of sports, you know,
• 55:16
  Speaker 1: people don't watch sports for the for the most probable
• 55:21
  Speaker 1: thing to happen. You watch it because of... And your
• 55:24
  Speaker 1: greatest memories are always the improbable. Yeah. No, and that's
• 55:27
  Speaker 1: the great thing.
• 55:28
  Speaker 2: I mean, but that's where you see... I mean, North
• 55:30
  Speaker 2: Dakota State, that's what's interesting.
• 55:32
  Speaker 1: You've seen this.
• 55:34
  Speaker 3: both compression and extension. And I'm gonna, cause this is
• 55:37
  Speaker 3: really interesting. You take a Mountain West team, used to
• 55:40
  Speaker 3: be the Mountain West would play a big 10 team
• 55:42
  Speaker 3: and it'd be competitive, right?
• 55:44
  Speaker 2: Now they're just getting crushed, right? But you take a
• 55:47
  Speaker 2: team in the big.
• 55:47
  Speaker 3: Sky and mostly teams in the big sky are beating
• 55:51
  Speaker 3: the Mountain West this year. If you put Montana and
• 55:53
  Speaker 3: Montana State in the Mountain West, they'd be right there
• 55:55
  Speaker 3: with NDSU. I mean, last time we played NDSU, we
• 55:58
  Speaker 3: beat them, right? We beat South Dakota State. Like the
• 56:01
  Speaker 3: NDSU didn't make it to the national championship last year.
• 56:05
  Speaker 3: And here they are really competing. They could be in
• 56:07
  Speaker 3: the national championship. So you have this opportunity, I think,
• 56:10
  Speaker 3: for really exciting and competitive middle tier teams. And so
• 56:14
  Speaker 3: you don't have to have NDSU just hoping on a
• 56:17
  Speaker 3: wish and a prayer to maybe make it into the CFP.
• 56:20
  Speaker 2: And I'll tell you, you know, I've been to a
• 56:22
  Speaker 2: lot of sporting events.
• 56:23
  Speaker 3: When University of Montana played North Dakota State here in
• 56:26
  Speaker 3: Washington Grizzly Stadium in, I guess that was 2023, national
• 56:31
  Speaker 3: semifinal to go to the– I've never been in a
• 56:33
  Speaker 3: more electric environment in any.
• 56:35
  Speaker 1: I've been to Big Ten and SEC games.
• 56:37
  Speaker 3: And so there's great college football, great college competition that
• 56:42
  Speaker 3: still exists. And I think we need to honor that
• 56:45
  Speaker 3: and celebrate that and protect that.
• 56:47
  Speaker 1: No, I mean, it's– look. We can, you know, Whizzer
• 56:51
  Speaker 1: White warned us that this was going to happen when
• 56:53
  Speaker 1: they made that terrible Supreme Court decision back in the 80s,
• 56:56
  Speaker 1: which led us to this point. It's a bummer. What
• 57:00
  Speaker 1: I think makes college football different from pro football is
• 57:03
  Speaker 1: that you can sell out. in Montana. You can sell out.
• 57:09
  Speaker 1: It's not just 32 big cities that get football. It's
• 57:12
  Speaker 1: another hundred great college towns that get it. And oh,
• 57:17
  Speaker 1: by the way, it's a pretty good business too if
• 57:19
  Speaker 1: you let them be a real business as well, if
• 57:23
  Speaker 1: you're going to go down that road. And protect again.
• 57:25
  Speaker 3: I think you're spot on. We can't just say we
• 57:27
  Speaker 3: need to serve the Big Ten and SEC. We need
• 57:31
  Speaker 3: to protect exciting and competitive football in places like Montana.
• 57:35
  Speaker 3: And we can't let the smaller states, the smaller schools,
• 57:38
  Speaker 3: the smaller markets get left behind.
• 57:41
  Speaker 1: Do you have any regrets about not going into the
• 57:43
  Speaker 1: Mountain West?
• 57:44
  Speaker 3: Or do you think I mean, I think I think
• 57:46
  Speaker 3: what we're seeing and it's we got a great playoff system.
• 57:50
  Speaker 2: I think we're going to see real.
• 57:51
  Speaker 3: And when that when that realignment happens, I think University
• 57:55
  Speaker 3: of Montana, Montana State, I think getting back in South
• 57:58
  Speaker 3: Dakota State, North Dakota State, the Dakota schools.
• 58:01
  Speaker 1: You'd love to see Montana and Wyoming and some of
• 58:04
  Speaker 1: these schools kind of be in the same way.
• 58:06
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 58:07
  Speaker 2: Great brands.
• 58:07
  Speaker 3: I mean, that's, and again, I'm way out of my
• 58:09
  Speaker 3: lane here, but, but look at the mountain West. I mean,
• 58:12
  Speaker 3: the mountain West is bringing in schools from Illinois. Like
• 58:15
  Speaker 3: what are we doing? Like, You know, you should get
• 58:18
  Speaker 3: back to those geographical realignments and those rivalries. I mean,
• 58:21
  Speaker 3: think about a conference like that where you had Wyoming, Montana,
• 58:25
  Speaker 3: Montana State, New Mexico, New Mexico State.
• 58:30
  Speaker 1: Those are North Dakota State, South Dakota.
• 58:32
  Speaker 3: Those are great football teams, great state brands, great state identities,
• 58:37
  Speaker 3: like really good games.
• 58:39
  Speaker 1: And those, that's what I'd love to see happen. Seth Bodnar,
• 58:44
  Speaker 1: if you come up short, What are you going to
• 58:48
  Speaker 1: take away from this experience that will make you want
• 58:50
  Speaker 1: to stick into politics?
• 58:52
  Speaker 3: You know, look, I'm not thinking about anything on past
• 58:55
  Speaker 3: November 3rd. But what I would say is, you know,
• 58:59
  Speaker 3: it has been such a blessing. You know, people ask me, like,
• 59:02
  Speaker 3: are you tired of going around this day?
• 59:03
  Speaker 1: I'm like, hell no.
• 59:04
  Speaker 3: I'm as energized as I've been about anything in my life,
• 59:07
  Speaker 3: because when you talk to people and you see just the,
• 59:11
  Speaker 3: the goodness, the decency of the people in this state
• 59:14
  Speaker 3: and how hard they're working. And how difficult our government
• 59:19
  Speaker 3: is making it on people. You realize just what fundamental
• 59:24
  Speaker 3: change we need in our system. And I don't know
• 59:27
  Speaker 3: what happens for me if I don't win on November 3rd.
• 59:30
  Speaker 3: But I'll tell you, I am so grateful for the
• 59:32
  Speaker 3: privilege of going around the state and meeting so many
• 59:35
  Speaker 3: great Montanans, learning so much. And I believe more strongly
• 59:39
  Speaker 3: today than I did in March that this is the
• 59:41
  Speaker 3: type of change we need.
• 59:42
  Speaker 1: In this country. And are you a permanent independent?
• 59:47
  Speaker 3: Well, I'm a permanent Montanan working for Montana.
• 59:52
  Speaker 2: I think we're in an age of political realignment.
• 59:54
  Speaker 3: And the reason I say that, I think you saw
• 59:57
  Speaker 3: in the 1850s, the Republican Party emerge out of the wigs.
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 3: You saw, you know, Teddy Roosevelt, you know, even though
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 3: he wasn't successful with the third party, Teddy Roosevelt, what
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 3: he talked about. in terms of breaking up the what
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 3: he called the unholy alliance between corrupt business and corrupt politics.
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 3: You saw things emerge out of that. So I don't
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 3: know what that looks like. Maybe we have maybe we
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 3: renew the Bull Moose Party. Maybe, you know, maybe some
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 3: things happen. But I think what I know is that
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 3: we had reached an equilibrium. in this country and in
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 3: this state that was an unhealthy equilibrium, where you have
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 3: Republican dominance in places like Montana. And you're seeing that
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 3: partisan label breaking up strong coalitions around issues, whether that's
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 3: reproductive freedom, whether that's environmental stewardship, whether that's corporate regulation,
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 3: that cut across current party lines. And that is something
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 3: that I believe needs to change. That's part of what
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 3: this campaign has been about. I believe those are things
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 3: that are going to change. So I think it's going
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 3: to be an interesting next.
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 1: Five, six.
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 3: Do you want to be in the middle of this?
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 3: Is that what it sounds like? No, I want to
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 3: be in the middle of this. My wife and I
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 3: did this, you know, I quit my job and jumped
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 3: into this world for three reasons. And two of them
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 3: are 16 and one of them just turned 13. And
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 3: I'm hell bent on making sure that I do everything
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 3: that I possibly can and my wife and I can
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 3: to shape a better future for our kids and people
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 3: that are gonna come after us. Nobody wants to leave
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 3: a farm, a business, a ranch, in worse condition for
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 3: the people taking it over. And that's what we're on
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 3: track to do for this country. I can't abide by that.
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 3: So I don't know what my future holds. I believe
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 3: it's going to hold a seat in the United States Senate.
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 3: I think we're going to surprise some people on November 3rd.
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 3: But I believe too much in this country to not
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 3: care and just to watch as these things happen.
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 1: Seth Bodnar, it was good to get to know you. Thanks, Chuck.
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 2: I really appreciate it. Thanks for the conversation.