Latest / Future Christian / Yolanda Solomon shares why Discipleship is a Holy Collaboration

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Yolanda Solomon shares why Discipleship is a Holy Collaboration · Future Christian

0:01
>> Loren: Hello and welcome to the Future Christian podcast,
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your source for insights and ideas on how to lead
0:07
your church in the 21st century. At the
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Future Christian podcast, we talk to pastors,
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authors, and other faith leaders for helpful advice
0:15
and practical wisdom to help you and your community of
0:18
faith walk boldly into the future.
0:21
Whether you're a pastor, church leader, or a
0:24
passionate member of your faith community, this
0:26
podcast is designed to challenge, inspire,
0:29
and equip you with the tools you need for impactful
0:32
ministry. And now for a little bit about the guest
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for this episode.
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Welcome to the Future Christian podcast. Today,
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Loren Richmond Junior welcomes Yolanda
0:44
Solomon to the show. Yolanda M. Um
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Solomon is the director of discipleship at
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Epiphany Church in Brooklyn, New York, where she teaches
0:53
and creates discipleship curriculum and
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resources. She has also worked in campus
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ministry at Columbia University in New
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York, where she was blessed to serve undergraduate
1:03
graduate students for seven years.
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Yolanda is a disciple of Christ, a
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Brooklyn native, and a, uh, lifelong
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Knicks fan, which richly fuels her prayer
1:14
life. She lives in Brooklyn with her family.
1:18
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1:47
All right, welcome to the Future Christian podcast. This is Loren Richmond
1:49
junior, and today I'm pleased to be joined by
1:52
Yolanda Solomon. So, thank you so much for being here.
1:55
>> Yolanda Solomon: Thank you, Loren. It's my pleasure.
1:57
>> Loren: What, uh, else would you like our listeners to know about you today?
2:00
>> Yolanda Solomon: Well, I am, uh, a mom
2:03
of two. I am married to my wonderful
2:06
husband of 15 years. I am a Brooklyn
2:09
native, born and raised in Brooklyn, still here in Brooklyn, New
2:12
York. Um, I am a proud Knicks fan, which, as I
2:15
say, richly fuels my prayer life. And I have
2:18
the pleasure of serving as a director of
2:20
discipleship at a local church here in Brooklyn called
2:23
Epiphany Church.
2:24
>> Loren: Okay, well, you mentioned it, so I told you we're going to talk
2:27
some Knicks basketball, so we're going to bore out our
2:30
listeners here. Um,
2:33
so I mentioned this. I'm in the Denver area, so I really,
2:36
like, have become a Nuggets fan. Really
2:38
disappointed by the way the season ended for us.
2:41
Um, so, I mean, obviously
2:44
the Knicks and Nuggets have some tension with the whole
2:47
Carmelo situation. Um,
2:50
curious. Ah, like, what's your take on Carmelo?
2:53
Because us in Denver, we're kind of burned by his whole,
2:55
like, spurning us in Denver.
2:58
>> Yolanda Solomon: Well, I honestly want to say that I don't
3:01
really feel that the beef
3:04
was with the nuggets, more so than the coach. And I can't
3:07
remember his name. Um.
3:09
>> Loren: Oh, Carl. Yeah, Carl. George Carl.
3:11
>> Yolanda Solomon: Because Carmelo Anthony, like, refers to him as a snake. He'll even put,
3:14
like, little snake emojis, because it wasn't just Carmelo
3:17
Jr. Smith, also a former nugget.
3:19
>> Loren: Yeah.
3:20
>> Yolanda Solomon: Martin. Right. And so none of those guys have anything nice
3:23
to say about mister Carl. And so I
3:26
just feel like, you know, uh, there were
3:29
two different philosophies. And, you know, George Carl
3:32
is still talking about Carmelo all these years later, and
3:35
so I have nothing but love for Carmelo. If you actually look behind
3:37
me, this is actually
3:40
a birthday, uh, present my husband got from years ago.
3:43
This was Carmelo's 62 point game,
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uh, back in 2014, uh, of
3:48
January, uh, against the Charlotte Bobcats, which
3:51
are not even the bobcats anymore. And so, you
3:54
know, how can you not love mello as a Knicks fan? For
3:57
us, we love him. He gave us some of his
4:00
best years. I'll never forget the easter Sunday game,
4:03
uh, against the bulls. Christ Rose. And the knicks
4:06
won. It's like you can't
4:09
get any better than that. But I like Denver. I like what
4:12
y'all are doing over there. And you guys are champions. Like, nobody feels
4:15
bad for you. You guys have a ring, you
4:17
know, not the greatest season this year. Shorter ending. Yeah,
4:20
I'm sure you would have hoped, but you guys are champions, so we're
4:23
still waiting on that.
4:24
>> Loren: Yeah. So, obviously, it's been a few years, and, uh,
4:29
you can probably remember as well as I can the what,
4:32
the 94 and 99. Do I have those years?
4:35
Right? Yeah. Yeah. The 99 season was especially
4:38
fun for me. The Knicks run there.
4:41
I, of course, remember the whole, um, the
4:43
LJ versus the pacers. That shot.
4:46
>> Yolanda Solomon: Yeah.
4:46
>> Loren: Going crazy. Um, there were some hard times
4:50
in the two thousands, right?
4:51
>> Yolanda Solomon: They were rough. They were lean years, Loren. Lean years.
4:55
>> Loren: And I really kind of drifted away from
4:59
fall. Um, Knicks. Theirs is so bad for so
5:02
long.
5:03
>> Yolanda Solomon: Yeah, you were right. You were right. You probably had better things to do with your
5:06
life than watch the Knicks. Um, I did not.
5:09
I was there through the, you know, barnyani
5:11
and, I mean, Eddie Curry and,
5:14
you know, Fisdale. I mean, it just was. It was
5:17
awful. But you know what? God is the God of a
5:19
turnaround. God has turned my knicks
5:22
around. And so we are in milk and honey these
5:25
days.
5:26
>> Loren: So what do you think about, I mean, Jalen. Jalen Brunson
5:29
is obviously a player. Um, from.
5:32
From an outside perspective, like, I didn't really expect them to go
5:35
as far as they did this year just because beyond Jalen, I don't think
5:37
they have a lot.
5:39
>> Yolanda Solomon: Um, yeah, that's that outside perspective, Loren.
5:42
>> Loren: Okay.
5:43
>> Yolanda Solomon: We knew they were going far, and honestly, I think we would have
5:46
been in the Eastern Conference finals had it not been for the
5:48
injuries. We literally, by the time we were
5:51
in game seven against the Pacers, we didn't have
5:54
one starter left. Mitch Robinson is gone.
5:57
Brunson is gone. Randall is gone.
6:00
OG and Obi is gone. Even Bogdanovich
6:03
are. Our pickup is gone.
6:06
I mean, so, literally, none of the starters that
6:09
we started this season with were healthy by the
6:11
time we got to the Pacers. And as the Pacers saw, you know,
6:14
with a Halliburton with a torn hammy.
6:16
>> Loren: Right.
6:17
>> Yolanda Solomon: Not so easy to beat teams when your best players are injured.
6:19
So, you know, there you have it. Uh,
6:23
I'm excited. I am proud. I am already
6:26
ready for next season because I think a healthy Knicks team
6:29
is a scary Knicks team.
6:30
>> Loren: So. Julian Randall. Julius.
6:33
Right. Julius Randall. Uh,
6:36
we're getting real inside, inside baseball, or as they
6:39
say, inside basketball here. So I apologize for our listeners
6:42
here. I heard some commentary thinking Nick should let
6:45
him go because he's a. He's a ball stopper.
6:47
And you want to keep him.
6:49
>> Yolanda Solomon: No, I don't know any nick fans that want to get rid of random.
6:52
>> Loren: Okay.
6:52
>> Yolanda Solomon: We're all very, very upset. Number one. Cause
6:55
he's having one of his best seasons this season when he got hurt
6:58
by a certain Miami, uh, heat rookie
7:01
who will remain nameless. Um, yeah,
7:04
Julius Randle is a hardworking guy. He's. You know, I think a lot of
7:07
people forget that these guys are young men.
7:09
>> Loren: Yeah.
7:10
>> Yolanda Solomon: You know, and my husband even reminded me, like, how would
7:13
you play. How would you feel playing
7:15
basketball, having your second child
7:18
during a pandemic? Like, I remember, like, even the season before last,
7:21
like, I think his wife had just given birth, and it's like, the middle
7:24
of COVID and there's all these, like, rules and regulations
7:27
and, like, life is tough for new dads
7:30
when you're not a professional basketball
7:32
player. But, like, add on top of that, like, being a
7:35
professional basketball player, your teammates are getting sick
7:38
left and right, and you're going home to an. A newborn
7:41
baby. And I was like, oh, my gosh. And I think that's made me
7:44
give Julius Randall a bit more grace, like, reminding
7:46
myself that he. He is a man in his mid
7:49
twenties, trying to figure it out. New dad.
7:52
But I read an article about, like, the power of
7:55
meditation. Like, I don't know if you noticed, he'd been, like,
7:57
meditating on the sidelines with one of the
8:00
interesting assistant coaches. And that's what calmed him
8:02
down. Cause he was crazy. He was losing his mind a
8:05
couple seasons ago, but he was like Jalen Brunson. Just kind
8:08
of like, whispers in my ear. He's like the Randall whisperer
8:11
and meditation, uh, before
8:14
games. And, um, I'm here for it.
8:16
I'm hoping that Julius Randall retires
8:19
in Nick.
8:20
>> Loren: Yeah, yeah. Well, okay. So
8:23
what do you think about next? So, obviously,
8:26
forgive us listeners here, I will promise to get to some
8:29
actual religious content here, but
8:32
got a toxin, basketball. So what do you think? Obviously, here
8:34
in Denver, we're kind of worried about KCP
8:37
leaving, uh, contavious Caldwell Pope, because he's just a
8:40
great three and d guy. Um, like,
8:43
what's the. What's the perspective for
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next year? Like, do you all have any key free agents leaving?
8:49
M potentially.
8:50
>> Yolanda Solomon: I mean, I think at the end of the day, the Knicks are focused
8:53
on keeping, uh, OGN and Obi and
8:56
Isaiah Hartenstein. Really, that's the only two guys
8:59
that, you know, really had breakout seasons.
9:02
Um, I mean, everyone on the Knicks had their best year
9:05
ever. Like, Dante Devincenzo had his best season.
9:08
Josh Hart, best season ever. Um, but
9:11
Isaiah Hartenstein, which I don't think
9:14
anyone expected.
9:15
>> Loren: Yeah, he was no good in Denver.
9:17
>> Yolanda Solomon: Well, yeah, no, but he was on the Clippers, and he showed
9:20
promise, and we got him, and he just was supposed to be a
9:23
serviceable backup. And surprise, surprise, he ended up
9:26
taking Mitchell Robinson's starting spot, and we're
9:28
not letting him go. So I think that's if we can just keep
9:31
lockdown OGN and Obi, who? I mean, I think
9:34
we were, like, undefeated in January when we got him. I was
9:37
very sad to lose quickly in RJDev.
9:40
Sadness turned to Joy Loren,
9:43
after those first three or four games, and I was like,
9:46
huh? We don't ever seem to lose while this guy is playing.
9:49
Yeah, he seems to be able to defend three players at
9:51
once. Um, so if we can just keep an and Obi
9:54
and Hartenstein and bring back
9:57
the. Bring the team back, just run it back, I think.
10:00
Fine. Yeah.
10:01
>> Loren: Yeah, he's got to figure out Boston. I mean, they're not going
10:04
anywhere, right?
10:04
>> Yolanda Solomon: Yeah, they're not going anywhere, but I think. I think we can beat them.
10:07
Okay. I think we can. I think we can beat
10:10
just about anybody, because, as you've seen, not, uh.
10:12
>> Loren: Denver, but that's okay.
10:16
>> Yolanda Solomon: Jamal Murray. You know, I've used Jamal Murray as an object
10:19
lesson to my oldest son. Don't be a Jamal. Be a Jalen.
10:22
Like, oh, okay, heat
10:25
packs on the floor.
10:26
>> Loren: Yeah, that's true.
10:28
>> Yolanda Solomon: Take responsibility for your mistakes.
10:31
Um, um, the point guard, I mean, and
10:34
this is the last thing I'll say about the Knicks. It's been so long since
10:37
we've had a true point guard. Jalen
10:39
Brunson is a consummate
10:42
just human being, and he makes
10:45
everyone better, and that goes
10:47
a long way in the playoffs. That
10:50
goes a lot like, also, he's playing with his best friends from
10:53
college, which you just couldn't. I'm sure Disney is going to write a movie
10:56
about this. As you know, Loren, working with your
10:59
friends makes a difference.
11:00
>> Loren: It does. It does.
11:02
>> Yolanda Solomon: And that kind of chemistry coupled with
11:04
healthy all stars like Randall and I think
11:07
OGN and Ombi's a budding all star, I think will be just fine.
11:10
>> Loren: All right, we'll leave it there for the basketball talk, since
11:13
this is not a basketball pod. Um, but good,
11:16
good stuff here. Uh, anything else you
11:19
want to say about yourself, your journey of faith?
11:22
>> Yolanda Solomon: Well, yeah, I mean, I grew up. I mean, I talk about this in the
11:25
book, so this sort of leans into the book, but I grew up,
11:28
um, in, uh, Brooklyn, New York,
11:31
and I grew up in a predominantly african american church. And,
11:34
I mean, I know this isn't everyone's testimony, but I really liked church.
11:37
Growing up, church was like. It felt like home. It felt
11:40
like family, like, friends of mine from school went to my church. It was a very
11:43
community church. Um,
11:45
but as I grew older,
11:48
um, and met different kinds of christians, I realized
11:51
that my experience was not everyone's
11:53
experience. Um, it was a super black church. And
11:56
I'll just say, like, al Sharpton preached our
11:59
Palm Sunday sermon every year. So that's the
12:02
kind of church it was definitely steeped in the civil rights
12:05
tradition. Um, you know, we had, like, you
12:08
know, our sister churches in the neighborhood where,
12:10
you know, Doctor King would. Had preached in years
12:13
past. And so I was, you know, on the
12:16
usherboard and the youth choir and the Girl Scouts and
12:19
all the youth activities, and I really, really
12:21
did love church. But as I talk about in the book,
12:24
when I went to college, I kind of sort of strayed
12:27
away, stopped going to church. They really, my friends
12:30
in college didn't do church, so I stopped
12:33
going. Um, I did still sing in the gospel choir,
12:36
though, so christian activities, I always like to
12:39
sing, but, um, there was a
12:42
turning point my junior year of college, I talk about this in
12:45
the book, where I was going to make some
12:48
big decisions with regard to my life. And I was in Los
12:50
Angeles for a semester because I was either going to
12:53
live there or here. And, um, God
12:56
sent someone into my life, uh, who I say in
12:59
the book, she discipled me without even me knowing I was being
13:02
discipled. I didn't really have that language back then,
13:05
but what I say is, she really embodied the
13:08
love and compassion of Christ at a really formative
13:11
time in my life. And she was real. She wasn't a weirdo.
13:14
She was just a normal person.
13:17
And I knew her from back home. You know, we grew up in the
13:20
same church in Brooklyn. She was a bit older than me, but, you
13:22
know, we knew each other. And she kind of took me
13:25
under her wing and that
13:28
was life changing for me. And so
13:31
after, uh, my junior year of college, I came
13:33
back to New York a changed woman, um, I
13:36
believe because I
13:39
encountered Jesus through this person who loved
13:42
me in really practical ways. You know, I talk about in
13:44
the book how she just would. I didn't have. I'm not going to give the whole book
13:47
away, but she would, like, pick me up, uh, from
13:50
my apartment where I was staying. And I didn't have a car. I'm from
13:53
Brooklyn. You don't need a car in Brooklyn. Uh, you need one in
13:56
LA. And she would, like, drive me to get groceries, which,
13:59
if you've ever sat in LA traffic, that's a very Christ like
14:02
thing to do, like voluntarily to
14:05
cart a belligerent 20 year old college student
14:08
around. Um, and she just loved
14:10
me and she never changed. She was the same person,
14:13
whether we were just in the car getting groceries or whether
14:16
we were at a fancy industry party. She's an actress, by
14:19
the way, pretty successful working actress.
14:22
Um, and yeah, she never
14:25
changed, no matter where we were, which also
14:28
impressed me.
14:29
>> Loren: Yeah.
14:29
>> Yolanda Solomon: So something I think in the book is that discipleship is caught and not
14:32
taught. And I was watching, I was watching her
14:34
sneakily model a very christ like life in front
14:37
of me.
14:39
>> Loren: Share with you what any spiritual practices that are meaningful for
14:42
you.
14:43
>> Yolanda Solomon: Spiritual practices that are meaningful for me. Um,
14:46
I take a lot of walks, you know. Um, I live in New York
14:49
City, which is a walkable town. I have two
14:52
kids, which doesn't make for
14:54
much time to just pour over scripture
14:57
for hours and hours. Um, but I do
15:00
enjoy waking, uh, up before them and
15:03
just going for walks, listening to,
15:06
um, sermons or sometimes listening
15:08
to just music and walking and praying. I'm a big fan
15:11
of prayer walk. Um, I need the exercise.
15:14
Uh, but also it's just calming for
15:17
my soul. And so, um, that's something
15:20
that I find really life giving.
15:22
>> Loren: Yeah. Thanks for sharing that. So I'm looking
15:25
forward to chatting here about your book.
15:29
Yolanda is the author of the book discipleship
15:32
as holy collaboration, helping
15:35
others follow Jesus in real life.
15:38
And I was going to start off this conversation just by
15:41
the generic question, what inspired the book? But then I
15:44
thought I wanted to start it this way.
15:47
I'm kind of of the opinion of late that we live in
15:50
a culture that tells us we need
15:53
to be empowered and
15:56
authenticated, whereas
15:59
the christian message, at least as I understand it, tells us we
16:02
need to be saved and discipled.
16:05
And I'm just curious, you work in
16:07
discipleship. Obviously, you've written here about
16:10
discipleship.
16:11
>> Yolanda Solomon: Yeah.
16:12
>> Loren: What do you make of. I'm curious, do you see a
16:15
similar dynamic and what do you make of it and
16:18
the dichotomy that church
16:20
faces in culture?
16:24
>> Yolanda Solomon: When you say powered and authenticated, you mean
16:27
like. Like, uh, a self act, like.
16:29
>> Loren: Right.
16:30
>> Yolanda Solomon: To, like, self actualization.
16:31
>> Loren: Right.
16:31
>> Yolanda Solomon: Like, could you give me an example? Like, just off top, and then
16:34
I've got something to say.
16:35
>> Loren: Yeah. Because, um, I'm thinking about it, like,
16:39
in another. In a recent
16:42
conversation I had withdezenhe Dwight shyly, he
16:44
said something to the effect that
16:48
the modern age is that we think we
16:50
can save ourselves.
16:52
>> Yolanda Solomon: Okay. Okay. Yeah, no,
16:55
um. Well, when you say discipled, and the thing about
16:58
discipleship, and I mentioned this earlier, is
17:00
that even though I grew up in the church, I never
17:03
really heard that word. M I heard
17:06
disciple. Like, be a disciple. We're called to
17:09
be disciples. We're called to be followers.
17:12
And, um, when I think about
17:15
that, to me, and maybe I'm naive, lauren,
17:17
it just seems so simple that at the
17:20
end of the day, a disciple is a follower,
17:23
and our call is to follow
17:26
Jesus. Jesus. You know, uh, in the
17:29
christian tradition, it's God coming to
17:32
earth, stepping into this very broken world
17:35
to answer the question that God
17:38
asks in Genesis, chapter three, verse nine. Right.
17:40
Where are you? Right? Why aren't you with
17:43
me? Why are you hiding for me? Why
17:46
is my presence a problem? And that question, I would
17:49
say, if you really want to think about the metanarrative of scripture,
17:52
is asked all throughout the Old Testament. The
17:55
prophets, um, you know, judges,
17:58
uh, the psalms, like God beckoning his
18:00
creation back to fellowship
18:03
with him.
18:03
>> Loren: Ah.
18:04
>> Yolanda Solomon: And so I believe in Jesus God comes
18:07
down, condescends to be with us,
18:10
to say, I'm super serious about answering this
18:12
question, where are you? Like, you need to be
18:15
with me. And so, you know what? I'm going to come be with you.
18:18
Right? And what does jesus do? He goes
18:21
around and, you know, pardon, this might sound
18:24
crass. His shtick is, follow me, follow, uh, me. He
18:26
goes around telling people, follow me, follow me,
18:29
follow me. But what does that mean? I take it to mean follow
18:32
in my footsteps. He's constantly
18:35
showing us how to live, showing us how to be human,
18:38
showing us how to love, showing us how to be
18:41
obedient children. Right? Like, he's the messiah, he's
18:44
the son of God, he's the messianic king. And so
18:47
he's showing us how to lead, but he's also.
18:49
And giving us a new paradigm for leadership, which is service.
18:53
But he's also showing us how to be
18:55
obedient children of God. Uh, like, he's our older
18:58
brother. I love that Hebrews chapter two refers to
19:01
Jesus as our older brother because I think that's a metaphor we can grab hold
19:04
of if you have an older sibling who, like, learns
19:07
how to ride a bike before you or go to college before you,
19:09
or learn how to do something. But Jesus
19:12
is that older brother who kind of for the
19:15
path. He's our pioneer in life. He's our
19:18
pioneer in humanity, and, like, this is how you
19:21
guys were created to live. Follow in my
19:23
footsteps as you're empowered by the Holy Spirit.
19:26
And so what I see, you know, then and now, the call for the
19:29
modern day disciple, I don't think it's changed,
19:32
Loren. I think it's follow in the footsteps
19:35
of Jesus as you are empowered by the
19:38
Holy Spirit. That's how I would, uh, you know, describe
19:41
discipleship. And I think
19:44
getting off course is why
19:47
we're in the trouble we are today as the american
19:49
church.
19:51
>> Loren: Yeah, thanks for sharing that. Thanks for engaging that with me.
19:54
So that leads me to another question I was going to ask
19:56
later, but
19:59
you mentioned the challenge in
20:02
the early church, or, excuse me, the challenge we face
20:05
here in our current context.
20:08
And I was thinking about,
20:12
you're probably familiar, as I am, with the
20:15
church growth movement, so to speak, from, like, the nineties to the
20:18
thousand to the two thousands.
20:20
And as I understand, a lot of that was built
20:23
off transfer, growth, membership,
20:26
people leaving one congregation for another.
20:29
>> Yolanda Solomon: Sure.
20:29
>> Loren: So there's this really, this kind of expectation of just quick, like,
20:32
well, we can just start something, and boom, you
20:35
know, a new church and we can start with 150. We're
20:38
200, 301,000 before we end know it.
20:40
Um, this influence of startup
20:44
and tech of ten x growth
20:47
is so, uh, baked into
20:50
our thinking oftentimes.
20:53
Yet as we think about the change in
20:56
our at least american context, and I think
20:59
probably north american, where the kind of cultural
21:02
Christianity is going away. And this is just
21:04
what struck me when I was reading your book and you even
21:07
telling that story again of
21:12
your discipleship person in college, how
21:15
much this is a long term
21:17
effort. There's not going to be
21:20
immediate, dynamic growth.
21:23
>> Yolanda Solomon: Sure, sure. Yeah. Um, and again,
21:26
I just go back to the Bible in the book. I spent a lot of time in the
21:29
gospels because I think we need to
21:32
encounter Jesus in order to know how to follow. We
21:35
need to know who we're following. And I think a big problem
21:38
in America is we don't, we don't agree
21:40
on who Jesus is. First of all.
21:42
>> Loren: Yeah, not wrong.
21:43
>> Yolanda Solomon: Some Jesus is this warrior, Caesar,
21:46
king, who's here to crush my enemies and all,
21:49
everybody that I hate, God hates.
21:52
And to worship means to
21:55
invoke the wrath of God on my enemies.
21:59
So I spent a lot of time in the gospels because I
22:02
believe, like, don't believe me, don't take my word for it. Let's look
22:05
in the Bible. And so when I look at
22:07
Jesus, he engages people over a period of
22:10
time. Now, obviously, Jesus, you know, earthly ministry is three
22:13
years. Um, with his disciples, you know, he had,
22:16
he had, obviously, he was younger, he had time. But as we know it, his
22:19
earthly ministry is three years. But in those three years,
22:22
Jesus is playing the long game. Jesus actually
22:25
is spending quite a bit of time telling them, I'm leaving you
22:28
guys over and over and over again
22:30
from mark. If you look in the gospel of Mark, from chapter
22:33
one until you get to about,
22:36
uh, chapter 13, he's constantly
22:39
saying specifically around chapter eight,
22:42
from between chapter eight to chapter 13, I'm going to be
22:45
crucified, I'm going to be arrested, I'm going to be
22:47
beaten, I'm leaving you guys. So here are some
22:50
instructions. And he is committed
22:53
to walking these ragtag
22:55
followers through what it
22:58
means to have an alternative consciousness, as
23:01
Walter Brueggemann calls it. Right? What it
23:03
means to imagine that another world is possible.
23:06
What it means to imagine that, like,
23:09
first century Galilee is not all there is,
23:12
right? Like being colonized by the Romans and just the
23:15
way of life that they see it. Like, there's another way of living. Jesus
23:18
calls it the kingdom of God, right? Where the last are first
23:21
and where. It doesn't matter who's gonna be at my right or
23:24
they're arguing who's gonna be vice president, who's gonna be
23:26
secretary, coming to your kingdom. And
23:29
Jesus is like, it's not about power. It's actually
23:32
about you laying down your life for others
23:35
the way I'm about to go lay down my life for you. And
23:38
Jesus tells them this because he knows he's
23:40
leaving, which presupposes that Jesus knows that this is a
23:43
lifelong journey. Right? It's not this, like,
23:46
quick, all right. Jesus is checking off
23:49
numbers as people are, you know, following him and keeping
23:52
a tally of metrics. Right? No,
23:55
jesus is like, I'm leaving. And actually, I need you guys
23:58
to take care of each other.
23:59
>> Loren: Right, right.
24:00
>> Yolanda Solomon: I love that discourse. Uh, mother, behold thy son. Son, behold thy
24:03
mother. Like, y'all take care of each other because I'm out of. I'm about to
24:06
be out. So I need you guys to love one another
24:09
as I have loved you, but I'm gonna send you power.
24:11
>> Loren: Send the spirit, right?
24:12
>> Yolanda Solomon: Acts, chapter, acts, chapter one.
24:15
They're like, are you good? Is it. Is this the time you're gonna restore
24:18
Israel? And he's like, what are you guys talking? No, forget
24:21
that. Now's not the time, but forget about
24:24
time. I'm gonna give you power from on high
24:27
so that you can go and you
24:30
can share my good news with
24:32
everyone. And the Peter and the
24:35
john that we see in acts chapter three are so
24:38
different than the Peter that we see in Luke
24:41
22 when he's denying Jesus. And he's, you know, he's a.
24:44
He's a coward, which, honestly, all of us would be. I'd be a little
24:46
scared, you know, Jesus just being crucified, and they want to do
24:49
that to me. No, thanks. I don't know him. Right.
24:52
But this is a journey. This is a
24:55
journey, right? And so, even after Jesus
24:58
has ascended to heaven and has poured his spirit
25:01
out, the disciples are finally figuring
25:04
out a bit or so later.
25:07
Wow. This is what it means to proclaim
25:10
the good works of Jesus without fear. This is what
25:13
it means to, uh. I mean,
25:16
one of my favorite passages of scripture, and I'll just stick with
25:19
Peter here, is in acts chapter four. After
25:22
Peter has been arrested, he's been threatened, don't preach
25:25
anymore. Um, he goes to a small
25:28
group of I believe, and I believe they're new christians because
25:31
acts chapter two says, you know, thousands
25:33
were added. So these are newly saved believers.
25:36
And he says. And he asked for prayer. He
25:39
asked for them to pray, and they pray this powerful prayer.
25:43
Um, and I love that. The
25:45
same Peter that couldn't be
25:48
that kind of got caught by himself
25:51
trying to follow Jesus by himself. He got caught out there slipping, you
25:54
would say, in Brooklyn. And he denies Jesus. Now he knows, uh,
25:57
uh, uh, uh, uh. When I'm in trouble, when I'm scared, you're not gonna
26:00
catch me by myself again. I'm going back to my community,
26:03
and I'm gonna pray with them for the courage to.
26:06
What does he say? Proclaim the word boldly.
26:08
Right. That's a different man. That's a spirit
26:11
filled man. That's a man who knows the value of
26:14
community. There's not this hierarchical top
26:17
down. Oh, you know, Peter's just gonna grit it
26:20
and just be a super Christian. And I know, I don't even
26:22
know if I'm still answering your question, but he's like, no,
26:25
the power that I'm going to need to follow
26:28
Jesus is going to come from the Holy Ghost, but it's
26:31
also going to come from this body of believers that I am
26:34
now connected to.
26:35
>> Loren: Yeah, yeah, let's stay on that, because you write in your book about,
26:38
at least as I interpret it, the recip. Can't say
26:41
the word reciprocal. Nature of discipleship.
26:44
You mentioned there, Peter going to what we
26:47
would interpret as new believers saying, hey,
26:50
I need prayer. And discipleship in church
26:53
context can often be, like you mentioned, a top
26:56
down relationship.
26:59
Continue to talk about the importance in
27:02
discipleship of that reciprocal nature.
27:05
>> Yolanda Solomon: Right. And so my,
27:08
uh, years ago, we, uh, were doing a Bible study at church
27:11
in Philippians. And I think that's what kind of
27:13
sparked this for me, because I've worked
27:16
in a local church now in Brooklyn here for about three
27:19
years. But before then, I worked in campus ministry. I worked in
27:22
campus ministry, um, at Columbia University for about
27:25
eight years, um, serving undergraduate students.
27:27
Phenomenal. But the age gap was a
27:30
bit more. And so for years,
27:33
I only thought that the
27:36
mentoring, um, and the discipleship was
27:39
only supposed to kind of be one directional, not
27:41
reciprocal. Right? Like, I do the teaching, I do the
27:44
exhortation, I do the encouraging.
27:47
And it really made me feel like I couldn't share any of
27:50
my doubts, any of my weariness, any of my fears with
27:53
somebody that I was discipling, because I'm like, wow, if they see me
27:56
struggling, they're gonna think, oh, well, if Yolanda's a leader
27:59
and she's struggling or she has doubts, what hope is there
28:02
for me? And, you know, mentors helped me to see, number
28:05
one, that. That was super prideful. Um, but
28:07
also what I say in the book is that
28:10
when we don't, uh, pour. When we pour out in
28:13
ministry and don't allow people to pour in, I don't care if
28:16
they've been a Christian for a week, we're saying to them, I
28:19
don't need you.
28:19
>> Loren: That's good.
28:20
>> Yolanda Solomon: We're saying what Paul says in one corinthians twelve
28:22
of the foot says to the elbow, I don't need
28:26
you. Right? And this is the metaphor of the body of
28:28
Christ. And we don't say it out loud, I don't need
28:31
you. But what we also do is we
28:33
rob them of. We rob ourselves of a
28:36
vital means of grace, and we rob our
28:39
mentee or our disciple, an example
28:42
to embody the good news that we're trying to teach them about.
28:45
And so one of the things that I do
28:47
now is regularly ask people that I'm
28:50
mentoring to pray for me.
28:51
>> Loren: That's good.
28:52
>> Yolanda Solomon: And sometimes pray for you. And I'm like, yeah, pray for me. I
28:55
need it.
28:55
>> Loren: Yeah.
28:56
>> Yolanda Solomon: Right? I'm stressed out. Right. Life is tough. You know,
28:59
I got this going on and that going on. And number
29:01
one, they are happy to do it, but number
29:04
two, they are, so, I believe,
29:07
grateful for an opportunity
29:10
to embody the very things
29:13
that I kind of talk to them about. About prayer being
29:15
communion, prayer being communication, prayer being
29:18
conversation, but prayer also being us co laboring with
29:21
goddess hearts. They're like, wow,
29:24
I'm working with God
29:27
to do whatever God is trying to do
29:30
in you. And I think that's extremely empowering
29:32
for people, because I want people to see discipleship
29:36
as us participating in what God is already
29:38
doing. And so what it does is it takes away the,
29:41
like, hierarchical nature where, uh, some Christian is up
29:44
here, you know, the pastor, the preacher, minister, and then the rest of us
29:47
are just down here. Um, because
29:50
that's not biblical, right? Jesus said, there's
29:53
only one teacher, right? I'm it. The rest of you
29:56
guys are students in my school, in the school of
29:59
Jesus. One more example, and I won't,
30:01
uh, talk too deep in this, because this is in the book. But if you think
30:04
about even Paul's relationship with the philippian
30:07
church, I love, uh, what he
30:10
says. He says in Philippians, chapter two,
30:13
verse 28, he says, um,
30:17
uh, I know that through your prayers and God's
30:20
provision of the spirit of Jesus, that what happened
30:22
to me will turn out for my deliverance. I eagerly
30:25
expect and I hope that I will have sufficient
30:28
courage so that Christ will be exalted in my body.
30:31
And I love that. That there's this vulnerability where he's
30:34
sharing. He's inviting them into his anxiety.
30:37
He's inviting them to share in his sufferings, uh, all
30:40
through the letter to the Philippians. And he's
30:43
also. He's saying, I'm confident in the Holy Spirit, but
30:46
I'm also confident in your
30:48
prayers. Right? Like, I know that through
30:51
your prayers and the provision of the Holy Ghost, that what
30:54
has happened to me will work out for my deliverance. And so I love
30:57
that Paul doesn't minimize his suffering to protect
31:00
the Philippians. He invites them into his suffering, and then
31:03
they send help. They send this man named Epaphroditus
31:06
with real, tangible help, uh, to help Paul.
31:09
But then Paul doesn't have, like, this, like, uh.
31:12
I call, like, a toxic kind of relationship
31:15
where he's banking on his apostolic
31:17
pedigree to sanctify them. He
31:20
says, no, no, no. The work that God began in you,
31:23
I'm confident that God will bring it to completion
31:26
until the day of Christ Jesus. Not
31:29
my confidence is in the work that Paul has begun, even though
31:32
he kind of technically did begin the work. Like, Paul
31:35
recognizes that he's part of something much bigger than himself.
31:38
Paul recognizes that there's a mutuality
31:40
between him and the philippian church, and
31:44
Paul is happy to partner with
31:47
them. Right. There's this beautiful word, koinonia in the Greek,
31:50
that is used so much in Philippians, that literally
31:52
means gospel partnership. And I think that if we viewed
31:55
our discipleship relationships as partnerships, you'd
31:58
have a lot less burnt out pastors, you'd have a lot less burnt
32:01
out christians, and you'd have a lot more
32:04
new christians actually walking
32:07
out their faith in a way that is enriching
32:10
and life giving.
32:11
>> Loren: Yeah. So much good. So much good stuff you're saying there,
32:14
because I can just think about it through multiple elements, like
32:17
a. The pastor or church leader getting
32:20
burned out and worn out from trying to be everything to
32:23
everybody. Um, the kind
32:26
of the mentality that
32:29
can so often be in churches where it's like the person or person
32:31
comes in is like, feed me, feed me, feed m me. It's like, hey,
32:34
that's part of your job, too, right? Uh,
32:37
such. Appreciate your insights there.
32:40
Let me ask this question, too, because it's coming to mind,
32:44
I think, when I think of
32:47
discipleship, and I think this is a fair
32:51
characterization, what was commonly understood as
32:54
discipleship, it's either as memorization, like you write
32:57
about in the book, or I
33:00
think, conversely, in different
33:02
contexts, it can be this kind of like
33:05
fear, shame and hatred. And maybe hatred is
33:08
too strong, but it can be this kind of like fear and
33:11
shame about, you know, we're gonna, we're gonna, we're gonna.
33:15
We're gonna force. I shouldn't say force, but we're gonna
33:18
drive behavioral change one
33:21
way through, either getting you to memorize a
33:24
bunch of stuff or kind of fearing and
33:26
shaming you into. And I
33:29
think this happens on both
33:32
sides of Christianity, whether it's a
33:35
conservative side or a more progressive liberal side.
33:38
Talk about those two
33:41
paths. And why do you think those are not
33:43
conducive to real strength
33:46
discipleship?
33:48
>> Yolanda Solomon: Yeah. Um, in the book, I talk about
33:52
the trio of fear,
33:54
shame and hatred. And I say that
33:57
if you use fear, shame and hatred
34:00
to disciple people or to bring them to
34:02
God, you have to keep them afraid,
34:05
ashamed and angry.
34:06
>> Loren: Ah.
34:07
>> Yolanda Solomon: And I, um, think we see all three of
34:10
those in the american church today where,
34:13
whether it's people saying, you know, come to Jesus,
34:16
come to my church, because they are
34:18
afraid of being replaced. I mean, we literally saw march
34:21
in, in Virginia in
34:24
various parts of America where the chant was, you will not
34:27
replace us. And it's like the church is dwindling.
34:30
Our children and our grandchildren aren't coming to church. What are
34:33
we gonna do? We're gonna be replaced. Right. And I say
34:36
that fear is such a weak
34:38
motivation, uh, for discipleship
34:40
because you have to keep people
34:43
afraid. Right. And so, you know,
34:45
then. And also
34:48
biblically, the Bible says that love casts out
34:51
fear. And so, you know, if
34:54
your motivation is fear, once people stop being
34:57
afraid, then they're going to stop following. Right.
34:59
And then also shame. Right. If you're just
35:02
constantly having people question their salvation. And
35:05
every Sunday there's an altar call, and every Sunday, you know,
35:08
oh, you know, if you've sinned this week, come on and get it right.
35:12
There's just this never ending cycle of shame
35:15
wherever discipleship just is
35:17
manufactured sorrow, mhm, and
35:19
condemnation. And you never actually get around to
35:22
following Jesus because you're so busy,
35:25
you know, beating yourself up over sins that Jesus
35:28
already died for.
35:28
>> Loren: Hm.
35:29
>> Yolanda Solomon: Right. And then with the hatred, I mean, we don't have to go
35:32
further than January 6, you know,
35:35
where it's like, America is a christian nation. We've got to
35:38
keep it pure. We've got to keep a christian, whatever that means.
35:41
And, uh, that means
35:44
getting rid of these others, making sure
35:47
these others don't cross our borders because they're going
35:49
to pollute our christian witness. Whereas
35:52
Jesus says, in Matthew 25,
35:55
when I was a stranger, you invited me in, and his disciples say,
35:58
wait a minute. When were you ever a stranger? And now for
36:01
us, we hear stranger and we think,
36:04
well, what does that mean? But the greek root word for
36:07
stranger is xenos, which is where we get our root, our
36:10
word for xenophobia, right? Which, you
36:13
know, we know xenophobia has to do with, uh,
36:15
intense hatred or fear of
36:18
people from another nation. And so Jesus is
36:21
saying, listen, in the kingdom, there are no
36:23
strangers in the kingdom. Everyone is your neighbor,
36:26
and I identify with the stranger. So whatever you
36:29
do for the least of those, you do for me. Right?
36:32
And so back to why fear,
36:34
shame and hatred are a horrible means of
36:37
discipleship. They just don't laugh, number one.
36:40
But number two, they're not the way of Jesus. Jesus
36:43
didn't gather people by making them
36:46
ashamed, afraid, or hating their neighbor.
36:49
Jesus built his kingdom through self
36:52
sacrificial love. He said, you know, the kingdom of God is
36:54
near. And then he just gets to the work
36:57
of serving and loving and
37:00
calls us to follow him. Right? And
37:03
so I think discipleship
37:06
bad. Um, discipleship usually is. And
37:09
I've fallen into this trap, you know, where someone says,
37:12
hey, landa, I want to grow. You know, I really don't enjoy
37:14
reading scripture or I don't enjoy praying, you know, help me
37:17
to grow in my discipline. And there's always that word
37:20
discipline they use. And, you know, I could give them a list of things
37:23
to memorize. I could give them index cards of scripture,
37:26
you know, because I think the goal is you want people to get their
37:29
word in their heart, right? But see, what this does is.
37:32
I think what it does is it help makes us forget that
37:36
salvation is a miracle.
37:41
I think we've actually forgotten that what we
37:44
are involved in is miraculous.
37:47
>> Loren: Mhm.
37:47
>> Yolanda Solomon: Discipleship is about heart transformation,
37:50
right? It's about a new heart and a
37:53
new spirit and new affections. When Jesus says, you must
37:56
be born again, that's a metaphor, right?
37:59
Nicodemus, uh, is like, how can I go back in my mother's womb? And
38:02
Jesus is like, no, that's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about, I
38:05
want to change the way you love. I want to change
38:08
who, what and how you love. Jesus is talking about,
38:11
I want to change the way you love. I want to change
38:14
who, what and how you love. By the power
38:16
of my spirit and lauren, that takes time.
38:20
That's a, uh, that's sanctification. That's progressive. That's
38:23
lifelong, right. And as you encounter
38:26
me, who, what, and how you love
38:28
slowly, slowly starts to match
38:31
who, what and how I love. Right. And that has
38:34
nothing to do with fear or shame or hatred.
38:37
Right. That has to do with us being
38:39
slowly changed and slowly being sanctified
38:42
as we encounter Jesus, as the Holy Spirit does the
38:45
heavy lifting of heart transformation, and as
38:48
we are loving flesh and blood
38:51
people. This all can't just be about mental
38:54
assent to doctrine, right? It has to actually, like, have
38:57
flesh and blood, you know, tangibility at
38:59
some point, or else it's too theoretical. It's not real.
39:02
I say in the book that discipleship has to. To introduce people
39:05
to the body of Christ, or else it's just too
39:08
theoretical. Right. I need to love actual people and be
39:11
patient with actual people and serve actual people
39:14
and bear the burdens of actual people in
39:17
order for this to actually do what I believe
39:20
Jesus kind of rigged this to do all along,
39:23
which has changed our hearts.
39:24
>> Loren: Boy, I really appreciate, really appreciate your
39:27
words there. And so much is fitting
39:30
into, I think, the theme of what your book,
39:33
obviously, in our conversation. Uh,
39:36
let me ask you one more question here before we take a break. Um.
39:42
Oh, uh, trying to remember the question.
39:44
So we kind of talked about this earlier,
39:47
but how would you
39:50
advise churches, pastors and church leaders to kind of
39:53
create a culture of discipleship like we talked
39:56
about earlier? Church can often be this kind of like, feed me
39:59
mentality where the folks
40:02
come in expecting to be fed. The pastor has
40:05
this expectation, external or
40:07
internal, to kind of
40:10
do all the feeding and the teaching.
40:14
How do we create a more
40:16
mutual, uh, discipleship
40:18
culture?
40:20
>> Yolanda Solomon: Yeah, I think, first of all, it does have to start with the
40:22
head, I think. Um, for better or for
40:25
worse, people look to pastors to model
40:28
and lead. So I don't think that's necessarily a bad
40:31
thing, but I think, honestly, pastors for whom that is
40:34
true, where there's the pastor and maybe two or three
40:37
other people who do all the work, the pastor
40:40
has to call themselves out.
40:43
They have to say, this is kind of gonna end,
40:46
and they have to realize that it's not gonna end
40:48
overnight. They have to take the risk to
40:51
begin to disciple people. Maybe. I
40:54
would say just start. If a pastor were to start meeting with
40:57
maybe five to six people on a weekly basis
41:00
and just begin to train them. And I talk about this in my book,
41:03
you know, how to do this, um, and
41:06
then empower those people. And that's usually where
41:09
it stops, because
41:12
that's risky. You now have to say I'm
41:15
going to trust people who may not preach like me, who may
41:18
not teach like me, who may not pray like me, who
41:21
may not articulate, uh, you know, uh,
41:23
doctrinal truth the way I do, to say, you know what?
41:26
Instead of this counseling session that I'm gonna have with sister
41:29
Sheila or brother Craig, you know, what? Can you
41:32
do that? Can you meet with them? Right?
41:35
And this is the, these are the people that now the pastor's been meeting
41:37
with. And maybe going through a book with, you know, you could get
41:40
my book, uh, or many books. There are many books to
41:43
get, um, empowered. The trellis and the vine is
41:46
a great book. Actually. My pastor brought us through that
41:49
and then say, you know what? Can you actually,
41:52
uh, meet and have coffee with this new believer
41:55
who just came and then let me know how that
41:57
goes, right? And do that with, like, ten
42:00
people. And now, all of a sudden, instead of one
42:03
person doing all the counseling, all the discipling, you've got
42:06
ten people meeting with ten people, right? And
42:09
then just over a period of time, what ends up happening
42:12
is that you have the body of Christ being the body of
42:15
Christ. And what's beautiful about
42:18
that is that we're all different. And I think
42:21
that scares some pastors. Uh, the difference in, like,
42:24
they're not going to do it how I do it. But first, Peter, chapter four,
42:27
verse ten, says, no matter what gift you have,
42:30
use your gift to serve. Right? And we
42:33
all have different giftings. Like, some of us have great administrative
42:35
gifts, some of us have great preaching and exhortation
42:38
gifts. Some of us have amazing prayer gifts, some of us
42:41
have gifts of hospitality. And the beauty is,
42:44
it's the same Holy Ghost, it's the same Holy Spirit
42:47
hitting the body of Christ. And it's almost like a prism,
42:50
right? Howard A. Snyder, in his book, Community of the
42:52
King, talks about the body of Christ as this prism. And as the
42:55
Holy Spirit hits you and hits me and hits him
42:58
and hits her, what comes out is this
43:01
beautiful light of
43:03
grace and of power, the power of
43:06
God. That's going to look different, the same way light
43:09
looks different when it hits a prison and it goes that way and it
43:12
refracts that way and it refracts that way as the Holy Ghost
43:15
hits me and hits you and hits this one and that one. It's going to
43:18
shine out different towards someone, but it's the
43:21
same holy spirit. It's the same holy spirit. And then
43:24
I think that begets more disciples,
43:26
because now from that coffee, now that
43:29
person knows that person, right? And they don't just
43:32
only know the pastor. Right. I think what happens is when you have the
43:35
pastor doing all the work, or just two or three people, that's a
43:38
great way to get people to quit.
43:39
>> Loren: Right.
43:40
>> Yolanda Solomon: And retire early or start. Or start drinking, uh,
43:42
which, like, we don't. We don't want that.
43:45
So. Yeah, that's my advice.
43:47
>> Loren: So much good points there. Uh, we need to take a break,
43:50
but so many good points there. I want to highlight, like, a. I'm just thinking
43:53
about, like, you know, the.
43:56
The church secession model is, like, so many churches,
43:59
like, falter when they change pastors because it's so
44:02
built up on, like, the singular
44:05
figure. Uh, two, I'm thinking about, like,
44:07
early, early church. Like, how did the gospel spread?
44:10
It was by people telling their neighbors, like, it
44:13
wasn't sure, like, Paul, and there were many
44:17
leaders there who were sharing, but it was people telling
44:20
people. Um, so you necessarily
44:23
didn't recommend your book or. But I will recommend
44:26
your book here, discipleship, uh, as holy
44:28
collaboration, helping others follow Jesus in
44:31
real life. Definitely want to recommend it. Definitely worth
44:34
checking out. Uh, should be available, I assume, wherever books are
44:37
sold.
44:37
>> Yolanda Solomon: Yes, it's available everywhere,
44:40
Loren. And I've been saying this on interviews. Uh, it's
44:43
also, some people don't like reading books. I found out if you
44:46
don't like turning pages, it's available as an audiobook on
44:49
audiobooks.com. you know, you can wash your dishes,
44:51
vacuum, pick your kids up from school, and listen
44:54
to me talk about discipleship.
44:56
>> Loren: Well, I would be glad to listen to you talk
44:59
about discipleship, too. So I'm sure our listeners would, as well.
45:02
Uh, let's take a quick break and come back with some closing
45:04
questions.
45:09
All right, we're back with Yolanda Solomon. So thanks
45:12
for the conversation. Really appreciate your perspectives
45:14
here for these closing questions. I always tell folks, you can take
45:17
these as seriously or not as you'd like to. Uh, but if
45:20
you're pope for a day, what might that day look
45:23
like for you?
45:25
>> Yolanda Solomon: Pope for the day? I don't know. A lot of
45:28
traveling. I like to travel. The pope goes a lot
45:30
away, a lot. I love Italy. I've always telling my husband I'd love to go to
45:33
Sicily and eat, uh, some seafood by the sea.
45:36
So if I were pope for the day, I would definitely
45:39
take the advantage to travel, meet people, pray with
45:42
people, eat some good food, which is what I imagine the pope
45:45
does.
45:45
>> Loren: Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Some really good italian
45:48
food. Kind of making me hungry here. A, uh,
45:50
theologian or historical christian figure you'd want to meet
45:53
or bring back.
45:54
>> Yolanda Solomon: To life Dietrich Bonhoeff.
45:57
>> Loren: Okay.
45:57
>> Yolanda Solomon: But honorable mention to Jerina
46:00
Lee, who was one of the first women who
46:03
preached, uh, in the ame church in
46:05
Philadelphia. I believe she was part of Richard Allen's church.
46:08
>> Loren: Okay. Yeah. Deep pulls there.
46:11
>> Yolanda Solomon: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I'm reading an m
46:13
autobiography about her, uh, called
46:16
sisters in the spirit.
46:17
>> Loren: Okay.
46:18
>> Yolanda Solomon: Um, uh, three black women's autobiographies of the
46:20
19th century. And so I'm learning about Jarina Lee,
46:23
zilfa elaw, and Julia Foote. Um, and so,
46:26
Dietrich Bonhoeffer, first, um, I would want
46:29
to bring him back to life for obvious reasons, because
46:32
America has gone crazy. But Jareena Lee, I'd love
46:35
to just, like, have coffee with.
46:36
>> Loren: Yeah, yeah. Just reading a book about the,
46:40
uh, reading a church history book about the founding of the
46:42
ame church. So fresh in
46:45
my mind. All right, um, what do you think history will remember from our
46:48
current time and place?
46:52
>> Yolanda Solomon: I don't know. It's wild. I live
46:55
in Brooklyn, New York, and our former president was
46:58
just convicts.
47:00
>> Loren: That is true. As we're recording this charges.
47:02
>> Yolanda Solomon: Yeah. Like, literally. So this is a crazy time
47:05
in history, I will tell you. I don't know what history will remember.
47:08
I know what I will remember, that I would like to live in some
47:11
precedent times. I'm really sick of living in
47:14
unprecedented times. I just want some regular
47:17
old, you know, Bill Clinton on the Arsenio hall
47:20
show, playing the saxophone. Um, I think that. No, no, no. But to
47:23
be serious, I think that history will remember this
47:26
as a turning point. Where we turn
47:29
is up to us.
47:29
>> Loren: That's good.
47:30
>> Yolanda Solomon: But I think history will remember this current time,
47:33
2024, as a turning point
47:36
in history.
47:36
>> Loren: Yeah. Right. Where we turn is
47:39
up to us. Uh, what do you hope
47:42
for the future of Christianity?
47:45
>> Yolanda Solomon: Uh, I'm gonna keep this one simple. I
47:48
hope for the future of Christianity, that we
47:51
would look to the past,
47:53
ironically, in order to go forward. I
47:56
think how we go forward is
47:59
largely based on how we look at the past. And
48:02
I think as we look to the way of Jesus,
48:05
look to the simple, humble way of
48:08
Jesus, where the
48:11
gospel was super simple. Lay down your lives for
48:13
others, pick up your cross, love your neighbor
48:16
as I have loved you. That's my hope for the future,
48:19
that christians really just kind of make the main thing. The main thing
48:22
again.
48:23
>> Loren: Yeah, yeah. Thanks so much. Um, where can
48:25
people connect with you and find out more about your
48:28
stuff?
48:30
>> Yolanda Solomon: Yeah. I am, um, Yolanda Solomon with all
48:33
o's. S o l. O m m o n. Uh,
48:35
Yolanda Solomon, BK on Instagram,
48:38
Facebook. Um, I'm on Twitter, if you can find me
48:41
there. I'm a little spicy on Twitter, though, so, you know, govern
48:44
yourselves accordingly. Um, and my website is
48:47
yolandasolomon site. Uh, and so
48:50
you can find me on the interwebs. And my
48:53
book is available for sale everywhere.
48:56
Bookshop, uh, Amazon, Barnes and Noble,
48:58
audiobooks.com, comma, Target, Walmart. If you
49:01
just Google Yolanda Solomon, you will find me.
49:04
And a lot of people don't know this. My book is put out by inter
49:07
varsity Press. And if you go to the intervarsity press website,
49:10
you can download a sample chapter. So you can try before you
49:13
buy, you can actually, uh, read a sample
49:15
chapter of my book, uh, on the inner varsity
49:18
press website.
49:20
>> Loren: I'll have to see if I can get that in the show notes. That'd be
49:23
good. Okay, well, um,
49:26
I want to go back to talking Nick's basketball here, but
49:29
I'll
49:31
relent. Thanks, um, so much for your time.
49:34
Really appreciate the conversation. Again, appreciate the book, and,
49:37
uh, appreciate your ministry. Always leave folks with a word of peace.
49:40
So may God's peace be with you. You.
49:42
>> Yolanda Solomon: Thank you.
49:43
>> Loren: Thanks for joining us on the Future Christian podcast.
49:46
The Future Christian podcast is produced by resonate
49:49
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49:52
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