Latest / The People Run Podcast / #15: Run Injury Free with Dr. Hunter Physical Therapist & Running Coach

Transcript

#15: Run Injury Free with Dr. Hunter Physical Therapist & Running Coach · The People Run Podcast

0:00
SPEAKER_01: When it comes to running form, what are some of the key things you see often that people aren't working on or should be working on?
0:07
SPEAKER_00: The common running form deficiencies that I see, uh and I'll start from the ground up.
0:11
SPEAKER_00: One is your foot placement, right?
0:12
SPEAKER_00: So you can heel strike, you can midfoot strike or four foot strike.
0:16
SPEAKER_00: Now, one isn't necessarily better than another.
0:18
SPEAKER_00: It just loads your body up in a certain way.
0:20
SPEAKER_00: So say if you're somebody who's a four foot striker, meaning you're landing on your toes and you keep having continuous Achilles injuries over time, well, that would make sense because when you land on your toes, you're loading up your Achilles more.
0:31
SPEAKER_00: Another thing that I see often is something called crossing over.
0:39
SPEAKER_01: Hello and uh welcome to the People Run Podcast.
0:42
SPEAKER_01: Uh, thank you for tuning in.
0:44
SPEAKER_01: If you've been listening, um, for those of you that are new, this is the People Run Podcast where we talk about everyday runners and the stories behind runs and how people get it done uh day in and day out.
0:54
SPEAKER_01: Today's one is a little different.
0:55
SPEAKER_01: We're gonna talk about uh physical therapy.
0:57
SPEAKER_01: I have today Dr.
0:58
SPEAKER_01: Hunter, who I have the pleasure of having on on the other side of running.
1:02
SPEAKER_01: Everyone's ready to run until the injury comes, is when they see Dr.
1:04
SPEAKER_01: Hunter.
1:05
SPEAKER_01: We want to get a little bit ahead of that or learn some tips on this one as to why we we need to be on top of our physical therapy.
1:11
SPEAKER_01: I'm guilty of this myself, so no pressure for anyone listening.
1:14
SPEAKER_01: Uh, Dr.
1:15
SPEAKER_01: Hunter, welcome.
1:16
SPEAKER_01: How are you doing today?
1:18
SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
1:18
SPEAKER_00: Doing well, doing well.
1:19
SPEAKER_00: It's a pleasure to have me.
1:21
SPEAKER_00: Um, but yeah, I just saw some of your stuff online.
1:23
SPEAKER_00: It looks like you're you're doing some good stuff for the running community.
1:25
SPEAKER_00: So I'm excited to be here and uh yeah, looking forward to this.
1:28
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, man, thank you.
1:29
SPEAKER_01: I appreciate it.
1:30
SPEAKER_01: Uh uh staying back at you.
1:32
SPEAKER_01: Uh for those listening, he not only is a doctor and doing his thing as a physical therapist therapist, uh, he's also a coach.
1:38
SPEAKER_01: So he understands he's a running coach, and uh his content as well is a lot of uh the stuff we should be doing or listening to and uh getting into it.
1:47
SPEAKER_01: How did you become a physical therapist?
1:49
SPEAKER_01: Walk me through that journey.
1:50
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so growing up my whole life, I played sports, played football, basketball, and baseball.
1:55
SPEAKER_00: Um with that came plenty of injuries.
1:57
SPEAKER_00: Uh so I was kind of in and out of PT um when with playing sports.
2:01
SPEAKER_00: So uh I actually played football in college.
2:03
SPEAKER_00: Um, and so I've always been involved with the sports side of things.
2:06
SPEAKER_00: I've always been interested in how the human body works um in terms of you know exercise and what happens to your body and uh just you know anatomy, things like that.
2:14
SPEAKER_00: And uh I did an internship when I was in college working with a PT and then just loved it from there.
2:22
SPEAKER_00: And I actually switched my major.
2:23
SPEAKER_00: I was a sports and rec management major.
2:25
SPEAKER_00: Um, did that for a year.
2:27
SPEAKER_00: Kind of like I was already involved with sports, so I was like, I feel like I could be doing more, and that's when I kind of switched to more of that exercise science.
2:34
SPEAKER_00: Um, and then like I said, I did an internship with a PT.
2:37
SPEAKER_00: And ever since then I've been all about PT.
2:39
SPEAKER_01: So man, that's pretty cool, man.
2:42
SPEAKER_01: Uh to be able to practice sports, you know, work in sports.
2:45
SPEAKER_01: Uh you you see it on both ends.
2:47
SPEAKER_01: You know, you're you're doing your own thing, but you're also helping out.
2:50
SPEAKER_00: That's right.
2:51
SPEAKER_00: Yep.
2:51
SPEAKER_01: Uh, you know, you also coach, how did you transition from like, hey man, I'm gonna do physical therapy, but I'm also gonna focus on runners?
2:58
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so personally I'm a runner.
3:00
SPEAKER_00: Um, whenever I stopped playing football, I started running um and got more and more into it and made plenty of mistakes with running, um, which either led to injury or led to some other bad things happening of just me not knowing what I was doing.
3:15
SPEAKER_00: Um, so I was always interested in treating runners.
3:18
SPEAKER_00: Um, and I have been treating runners over the past handful of years.
3:21
SPEAKER_00: Um, and you know, obviously I I was honed in on my skills of how to treat running injuries and how to get to returning a runner to it to returning a runner from injury back to running.
3:32
SPEAKER_00: Um, but I felt like I wanted to do more.
3:33
SPEAKER_00: I felt like I wanted to kind of go ahead and take that next step and start coaching and start saying, okay, yep, we're good to go now in terms of your injury and you can run.
3:42
SPEAKER_00: But how about let's let's go further?
3:44
SPEAKER_00: Let's let's make you the best optimized runner where you can really get really good at running and and and uh improve your performance and use my PT side of things and background and my sports background as well.
3:55
SPEAKER_00: Okay, how can we train?
3:56
SPEAKER_00: How can we proper period period periodized periodize your running program uh to get you back into running?
4:04
SPEAKER_00: So um that's kind of when I wanted to take the next step and start start doing more coaching.
4:07
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's pretty cool, man, because for for you, it's like almost a one-stop shop.
4:11
SPEAKER_01: You know, you're gonna have someone that can coach you through the miles and hey, you need to do these workouts, these kind of runs, but it's also like okay, you need to be firing these muscles versus these muscles.
4:20
SPEAKER_01: Oh, like, oh, this one's dormant.
4:22
SPEAKER_01: Um that that just sounds like something really cool to have.
4:26
SPEAKER_00: And plus, too, I got really good at doing like a movement analysis or a running analysis.
4:29
SPEAKER_00: So basically, where I would take a video of a runner and say, okay, uh, this is what's going well, this is what we can improve upon.
4:36
SPEAKER_00: Okay, this is where I could see where you are becoming injured in this area because of your form.
4:41
SPEAKER_00: Okay, now how can we fix that?
4:42
SPEAKER_00: What are cues and things that I can give you that you can work on that showing up in your run form uh that can make you a better runner?
4:49
SPEAKER_00: One, to be more efficient, and two, to not become injury prone.
4:53
SPEAKER_00: Um, so that's something that I like doing as well.
4:56
SPEAKER_01: You that's a good point and topic that I have that I want to ask you.
5:00
SPEAKER_01: When it comes to running form, like what are some of the key things you see often that people aren't working on or should be working on?
5:08
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, um, a couple of I would say the common running form deficiencies that I see, um, and I'll kind of start from the ground up.
5:16
SPEAKER_00: So one is your foot placement, right?
5:18
SPEAKER_00: So there's a couple of different ways that you can strike with your foot.
5:20
SPEAKER_00: You can heel strike, you can midfoot strike, or four foot strike.
5:24
SPEAKER_00: Now, one isn't necessarily better than another, it just loads your body up in a certain way.
5:28
SPEAKER_00: So, say if you're somebody who's a four-foot striker, meaning you're landing on your toes and you keep having continuous Achilles injuries over time, well, that would make sense because when you land on your toes, you're loading up your Achilles more.
5:40
SPEAKER_00: Um, so that would be something that I would like want to look at first from the side point of view.
5:46
SPEAKER_00: Um, another thing that I see often is something called crossing over.
5:49
SPEAKER_00: So if you just draw a straight line down the middle, kind of treadmill or track wherever you're going, where one foot's crossing over, that puts a lot of valgus force at the knees and the hips.
5:58
SPEAKER_00: Um, so I would say those are kind of the two main things that you can see with foot striking.
6:03
SPEAKER_00: Um, at the knee, what can also occur is something called an over stride, basically when you land with your knee fully extended.
6:11
SPEAKER_00: When that happens, if you can imagine like your your car has like uh like shock absorption whenever you're you're kind of bouncing on like a bumpy road, if you don't have good shock absorption, then it's gonna be pretty stiff and it's gonna cause a lot of force up the chain.
6:23
SPEAKER_00: Um so that's something I can see often at the knee uh with landing with a more kind of straight knee, like uh which can occur with an overstride.
6:30
SPEAKER_00: And then the hips, a couple of different things.
6:32
SPEAKER_00: I guess one from the from the side point of view that you can see is somebody what's called sitting back, where it's almost like they're kind of running with like their butt sticking back when they're sitting in the chair.
6:40
SPEAKER_00: Um this is more like a quad dominant running form, uh, where basically they're not utilizing or turning on their glutes as much as they should.
6:47
SPEAKER_00: What you can also see from the rear point of view is kind of a hip drop or hip sway, where kind of laterally they don't have good hip stability, which can cause the other hip issues as well.
6:58
SPEAKER_00: Um, so I'd say that's kind of like the main couple of things.
7:01
SPEAKER_00: Now, obviously, there's a lot more things that can go on with running form, but those I would say are the main couple of things that you can look at from the foot position to the knee to the hip, and then up the chain you can see a couple of other things as well.
7:13
SPEAKER_01: I can only imagine even thinking myself, for you it's probably 20fold.
7:16
SPEAKER_01: There's there's hundreds of things you can pinpoint.
7:18
SPEAKER_01: Um but like when you ski when you get with a new runner, is that kind of what how your approach is?
7:23
SPEAKER_01: I you start from the bottom up, like, all right, let me see where the foot plate miss and just kind of go up the chain.
7:27
SPEAKER_00: Yep, yep.
7:28
SPEAKER_00: And I was like, okay, let's look at your foot strike, let's see if how if that works well for you or how that relates to your injuries.
7:33
SPEAKER_00: You know, let's look at your knee position and how much bend and how much it's straightened whenever you're you're running, and yes, kind of going joint by joint.
7:40
SPEAKER_00: Even too, I'll look at the spine and see if they're kind of swinging or kind of leaning one way or the other, head position too, if they're kind of looking up or looking down.
7:47
SPEAKER_00: Arm swing, uh, same thing as well.
7:49
SPEAKER_00: You know, you want your arms to swing with you and use that as momentum to drive you forward rather than you just having either T-Rex arms or showing up the shoulder or shrunking up the shoulder.
7:59
SPEAKER_00: So, I mean, it's it's a whole the the the main kind of takeaway is it's it's a it's a big picture.
8:04
SPEAKER_00: It's usually not just one thing that is kind of affecting your your injuries or whatever it may be.
8:11
SPEAKER_00: It all plays a key role.
8:12
SPEAKER_00: So if it would be, I guess, poor of me to just say, Oh, yeah, you have a foot injury, let me just look at your feet, right?
8:18
SPEAKER_00: Uh, you got to look at the whole chain because it can affect up and down.
8:22
SPEAKER_01: So gotcha.
8:23
SPEAKER_01: Um now I'm sure you see a lot of this.
8:25
SPEAKER_01: Uh one one thing I want to ask you after having said that is you got a lot of runners that I'm sure understand foot strike and and that they want to work on, you know, say the hips or or glutes and stuff.
8:35
SPEAKER_01: Um, but you also got some fast people out there who you see fast runners also have these problems.
8:40
SPEAKER_01: What do you think is one of the biggest like misses as to where they like, okay, I got fast, I'm working, they push through it, but they might be quad dumb and or or they might be crossing over their legs and yeah, look, I'm doing 250 a marathon or um 5k in 20 minutes.
8:56
SPEAKER_01: But the forum is, you know, what what's the miss that we don't often get?
9:00
SPEAKER_01: I feel like there's very little on this online as opposed to everything else.
9:04
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, now obviously it's it's unique to each individual, but if you're gonna look at that kind of grand scheme of things, the kind of trends that you would see, I would say it's glute strength.
9:13
SPEAKER_00: So technically, yes, you have the speed, you have the strength, you have the stability, but if you can't hold your smaller glute muscles and really contract those and squeeze those, then it can lead to other things down the line in terms of injury.
9:28
SPEAKER_00: So um I guess a saying would be the PT's favorite muscle to treat for a runner is the gluten mead because it is a lazy muscle, right?
9:38
SPEAKER_00: You have so many small muscles around your hips that a lot of times the glute max or other muscles are taking over, and your body itself, it's kind of funny to say this, but the body is very lazy.
9:49
SPEAKER_00: Your body finds a way to move that's comfortable for it that doesn't want to work, right?
9:54
SPEAKER_00: So if if you're doing more of these larger muscles to to move and to stabilize at a joint rather than those really small important ones, um, then your body's gonna find the easy way out.
10:06
SPEAKER_00: Uh so I would say uh generally overall, your your smaller glute muscles are um ones that that uh that runners kind of miss.
10:16
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
10:17
SPEAKER_01: That kind of explains why every time I've been at PT Glute is kind of one of the things we work on.
10:23
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
10:25
SPEAKER_01: It it's funny you say that I've been working on myself personally um on running form, which is why I was inclined to ask this.
10:31
SPEAKER_01: And I feel like it's one of those things, as you mentioned, uh people kind of overlook, maybe you know, it's just not thought of, but they know they need it and it comes later.
10:38
SPEAKER_01: How does someone like improve say running form like on a basic level?
10:43
SPEAKER_01: So they're working on glutes, you know, they know they need to work on better foot strike and maybe work on the hips, it sounds like too, because uh you do have some people that step over on on the other thinking of the straight line again.
10:53
SPEAKER_01: Um is it strength training?
10:55
SPEAKER_01: Is the answer?
10:56
SPEAKER_01: What's like some three small wins they can do?
11:00
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, um, I would say number one is gonna be strength training and not just strength training, but strength training in a single leg, um in a single leg way.
11:09
SPEAKER_00: So doing step-ups, doing like split lunges, doing like single leg RDLs.
11:13
SPEAKER_00: Running is a single leg activity, so that needs to be mimicked with your strength training and your and your uh cross-training.
11:21
SPEAKER_00: Um, so I would say that would be the biggest one just because it is such a single leg activity.
11:26
SPEAKER_00: The other one is okay, so you a lot of people kind of think of cues and and different uh thoughts that go through your head whenever you do run.
11:36
SPEAKER_00: Um, and I would say to not think too much about your running for, right?
11:41
SPEAKER_00: I know it's like easier said than done, but if you can just give yourself one thing to focus on, if it's just standing up tall, or if it's just trying to prevent kind of your hip slaying, or if it's picking out that dot on the road and saying, don't cross your feet over, just picking out one thing can do more, like I said, up or down the chain.
11:59
SPEAKER_00: Because if you're thinking, like, oh, I need to bring my shoulders up, bring my hips forward, you know, bend my knees a little bit more, land this way, then you're just gonna be throwing everything off.
12:08
SPEAKER_00: Right?
12:08
SPEAKER_00: So really just focusing on one thing, and it doesn't need to be all the time.
12:12
SPEAKER_00: It can be okay, whenever you're get to it, or when you cross another runner or you see a dog, you know, just think about that one thing to do it for a couple seconds, especially when your form starts to break down on those longer runs, you're getting fatigued, just go to that one cue.
12:25
SPEAKER_00: Um, because that one cue can help out many different areas.
12:29
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I love that.
12:30
SPEAKER_01: That's been one of the biggest things that's helped me recently is really the cue more than anything.
12:34
SPEAKER_01: And to your point, at first I was like picking three, four, and it's like, okay, I can't do this while running, and also think about my pace.
12:42
SPEAKER_01: You know, it's like too much.
12:43
SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
12:43
SPEAKER_00: Your route and where you're going, yeah, and looking up at what's hard my pace.
12:48
unknown: Yeah.
12:50
SPEAKER_01: It gets crazy.
12:51
SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, I I've kind of just blended it into one funny you say that, and this is gonna be a funny one for anyone listening.
12:56
SPEAKER_01: Uh, hey, it just worked.
12:58
SPEAKER_01: Uh, you know, maybe Hunter, you can share some.
13:00
SPEAKER_01: But for mine was uh thinking of Sonic the Hedgehog, right?
13:05
SPEAKER_01: You see how he has that slight forward lean when he's running, but his like legs are turning under him in a circle.
13:10
SPEAKER_01: That's my cue.
13:12
SPEAKER_00: I like that.
13:13
SPEAKER_00: I like that.
13:17
SPEAKER_01: I don't know how I got that.
13:18
SPEAKER_01: I was thinking of it at one point, and I was like, it just hit me when I was looking some stuff up.
13:22
SPEAKER_01: I was like, because my issue was uh you mentioned one of them was quad dominant, and um I wasn't cycling enough.
13:28
SPEAKER_01: And for some reason, Sonic at the time I was doing some research popped into my head.
13:31
SPEAKER_01: I was like, that's a good way to think about it.
13:33
SPEAKER_01: Just just turn as opposed to like trying to pull forward.
13:36
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I like that.
13:37
SPEAKER_00: One thing I do too, uh that I kind of recommend for runners, especially if it's a cadence issue, so it could have been with you, or um, if you're kind of targeting a certain case, so you do need to start cycling through a little bit faster.
13:47
SPEAKER_00: Okay, figure out what your cadence is, say if it's 165, okay, let's go to Spotify or wherever you listen to your music and let's pick a playlist that has 170 beats per minute.
13:56
SPEAKER_00: So that way you really don't even think about it, just you're just going on the beat.
14:00
SPEAKER_00: So that's an easy way that you can work on your cadence without having to think about okay, I just need to cycle through faster.
14:07
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's a good point.
14:08
SPEAKER_01: You know, you could just listen to your favorite songs while you you're running at the BPM you need to run.
14:13
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, exactly.
14:15
SPEAKER_01: On the subject of cadence, you know, for those listening, how important, especially from a physical therap therapist standpoint, is cadence uh to the whole running chain?
14:24
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, um, I would say it's variable on the runner, right?
14:29
SPEAKER_00: So cadence is how many steps you take per minute.
14:32
SPEAKER_00: Um, and there's two things that affect cadence.
14:35
SPEAKER_00: You're one, your speed, and two, your leg length or your height.
14:38
SPEAKER_00: So if you have somebody that's six foot running beside somebody that's five foot at the same speed, the person that's five foot is gonna have a faster cadence compared to the person that is six foot, uh, just to keep up with that same speed.
14:49
SPEAKER_00: So obviously we can't control our height, but we can control our cadence, right?
14:53
SPEAKER_00: So um cadence is important when it relates to foot strike pattern.
14:59
SPEAKER_00: So um if you are somebody who is over striding and landing with that knee extending, kind of like what I already talked about, that typically happens with somebody who has a very low cadence.
15:10
SPEAKER_00: Um and recommended there's plenty of different research articles that that are out there on the internet of what cadence should be.
15:19
SPEAKER_00: I usually tell people it needs to be between 160 and 180.
15:21
SPEAKER_00: And so when I'm working with runners, I'll look at their height and their speed.
15:25
SPEAKER_00: So if they're a taller runner who is faster, then I probably okay, yeah, I expect them to be closer to that 180.
15:30
SPEAKER_00: But if they're slower and taller, then they're gonna have a kind of slower cadence.
15:35
SPEAKER_00: So it's gonna be closer to that 160 side of things.
15:37
SPEAKER_00: So I pair it with their run form.
15:40
SPEAKER_00: So I don't say, okay, you need to be this, right?
15:42
SPEAKER_00: Because it all depends again on your speed and how fast you're going.
15:46
SPEAKER_00: If you're not over striding and if you're not having other ways of form breakdown in your running, then okay, we're gonna keep cadence, whatever it is.
15:53
SPEAKER_00: But if I do see a situation where I think they could benefit from either speeding up or slowing down, then I'll recommend it pairing it with the running form.
16:00
SPEAKER_00: So it is important because it can relate to injury.
16:03
SPEAKER_00: Um, but again, it's specific to each individual runner.
16:07
SPEAKER_01: No, I uh that's why I asked, and I love that you broke it down that way because uh often you know the assumption is 180, 180, 180, you know, whether it be Coach Daniels old school stuff or just the elites and whatnot.
16:18
SPEAKER_01: And um depends, like you said, on running form shorter, tall taller.
16:22
SPEAKER_01: So you know, you're hearing it here from the doctor.
16:26
SPEAKER_01: Uh-huh.
16:27
SPEAKER_01: That's it.
16:28
SPEAKER_01: Higher is good, but depends on, you know.
16:31
SPEAKER_00: Yes, and that 180 where that number came from was from uh a study, famous study done on Olympic marathon runners, which is okay, great.
16:39
SPEAKER_00: If you want to be an Olympic marathon runner, then yeah, running at 180 is probably gonna be the best for you if you are an Olympic marathon runner.
16:47
SPEAKER_00: But who's an Olympic marathon runner?
16:49
SPEAKER_00: Not me.
16:50
SPEAKER_00: Not 99% of runners out there, right?
16:53
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
16:53
SPEAKER_00: So that's that's where that number gets kind of confusing.
16:57
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I I often see that um people try to strive for it, and the forum is just going out of whack, and it's like, yeah, man, you're losing power, or or maybe you're overdoing it, um, or you're wondering why your ankle sore Achilles tip.
17:09
SPEAKER_01: Um touching on that, I what are like the main muscles you would say are let me backtrack.
17:16
SPEAKER_01: What are like some of the most important muscles in running um that are like not people I think often think quad, maybe glute now is is kind of common, I suppose people to know.
17:26
SPEAKER_01: But uh what are some out there that that are not thought of that like are very important to work on?
17:31
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so I kind of already mentioned it, but uh gluten mead, that's one of those muscles that helps prevent that hip collapse.
17:37
SPEAKER_00: Um, and it's very important to stabilize when you're on a single leg, like running.
17:41
SPEAKER_00: Um, it helps prevent that kind of hip sway.
17:44
SPEAKER_00: Lower down the chain, your soleus is your most explosive muscle, so that's where you get all your power.
17:48
SPEAKER_00: So that's the muscle that produces the most force when you run.
17:51
SPEAKER_00: Um so that's another hidden one where a lot of people, not a lot of people, I mean, some people do calf phrases, but they don't specifically target their soleus, right?
17:58
SPEAKER_00: Um, another one that I think is important that is often overlooked is your posterior tip.
18:03
SPEAKER_00: So your posterior tip is on the medial side of your tibia and attaches on the bottom of your foot and helps prevent foot collapse.
18:10
SPEAKER_00: So anybody with any type of like foot pain or ankle pain, it's usually um not a strong muscle for those runners because it have a lot of collapse at the ankle.
18:21
SPEAKER_00: So I would say that would be kind of like a sneaky one that I think is very important.
18:25
SPEAKER_00: Um I feel like the soyus and the glute meat are very well, obviously that it's well known that the soyus produces the most force, but um gluten meat is a is a kind of sneaky one.
18:34
SPEAKER_00: I would say posterior tip is even uh less less known than that.
18:38
SPEAKER_01: That is um, you know, I wish I had known you a couple months ago because my injury is supposed to be.
18:45
SPEAKER_01: Um you know, now I know, you know, after almost recovered of how big of a pain it is to work on and you know the importance of it.
18:53
SPEAKER_01: Um and I asked the question exactly for the soleus.
18:56
SPEAKER_01: I um I find people think calve raises it is the soleus, but there's a distinction between, correct me if I'm wrong, Doctor, the gastronomous part of the calf, the big big area of the calf versus right under the calf where the soleus and the power is, and how to train it.
19:10
SPEAKER_01: Uh is that a correct way to put this?
19:12
SPEAKER_00: Yes, that is correct.
19:13
SPEAKER_00: So the difference between the two is that the gastroc crosses the knee joint.
19:17
SPEAKER_00: So it does two things.
19:18
SPEAKER_00: It helps flex the knee, or no, excuse me, I have that backwards.
19:22
SPEAKER_00: The soleus crossing the knee joint, which helps flex it, which helps flex the knee.
19:26
SPEAKER_00: So that's why training the soleus in a flex position uh is beneficial.
19:30
SPEAKER_00: Um so when you see people do calf raises, they're usually staying up straight um with their knees extended, which is more training their gastrocks.
19:37
SPEAKER_00: But if you want to train more of the soleus, you have your knee flexed.
19:40
SPEAKER_00: So people either do that seated, uh, where you can see those kind of seated calf raise machines.
19:45
SPEAKER_00: Um, I do, I just put kind of heavy dumbbells on my knees and then kind of do it that way.
19:49
SPEAKER_00: Um, or even just kind of in a bent position.
19:51
SPEAKER_00: So almost like you're in like a lunged position with one foot on a stair or platform, and then you can do calf raises that way.
19:59
SPEAKER_01: I love that you shared that.
20:00
SPEAKER_01: That's why I asked.
20:02
SPEAKER_01: Um for those listening, you know, there are some good tips on how to train the soleists uh and not having to learn it the hard way, like say me.
20:12
SPEAKER_01: Um Hunter, I want when it comes to lifting, right?
20:15
SPEAKER_01: I think it's now well known the importance of lifting and injury prevention, um, you know, just feeling stronger as a runner, helping everything we just mentioned about form.
20:24
SPEAKER_01: But I want to ask your take on the age-old question of low rep heavy weight or high rep, medium to lower weight, which is better?
20:34
SPEAKER_01: Is it case by case?
20:36
SPEAKER_01: Um why do people shift back and forth between these?
20:38
SPEAKER_01: And what's your take?
20:40
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so I would say it depends on what your goals are, right?
20:42
SPEAKER_00: So um, if you're training for endurance, then you would need to do higher rep exercises.
20:48
SPEAKER_00: So I would say 12 plus reps.
20:50
SPEAKER_00: Um, that helps the muscles adapt to help uh endurance and build up those type one muscle fibers.
20:56
SPEAKER_00: Um, now if you're going for more explosiveness and power, you want to get faster, or you're training for like a shorter distance race, then that's when I would go a little bit less reps.
21:05
SPEAKER_00: So I would say anywhere between that six to twelve.
21:10
SPEAKER_00: If you're one of building some strength or six to ten, if you're looking for more explosiveness and power, then that's going to be from like one to five.
21:17
SPEAKER_00: Um, so I would say it all depends on what your goals are.
21:22
SPEAKER_01: How does uh follow up to that?
21:24
SPEAKER_01: How does someone balance that?
21:25
SPEAKER_01: Let's like, for example, I'm just running to run.
21:28
SPEAKER_01: I could easily see me doing any of them.
21:30
SPEAKER_01: You know, if I want power, I'll go heavy.
21:31
SPEAKER_01: If I don't, if I just want endurance, I'll go heavy.
21:33
SPEAKER_01: But like, let's say we're in the middle of a training block for a race, 5k, 10k, half, full.
21:38
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you know, it might be a little taxing on the body.
21:40
SPEAKER_01: How does one in your opinion uh best balance that?
21:44
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
21:45
SPEAKER_00: So if you're gonna do it with a training block, then I would focus more on your uh increased reps, uh lighter weight at first to help build that muscular endurance right around the time where you're gonna be going easy pace, same.
21:58
SPEAKER_00: It's gonna be paired directly with your.
22:00
SPEAKER_00: Running right, so early on that training block, you know, you're you're just getting those miles in, you're building that muscular endurance.
22:06
SPEAKER_00: In the strength training aspect, you need to be doing the same.
22:08
SPEAKER_00: So uh lighter web, lighter rep, heavier weight exercises.
22:13
SPEAKER_00: Now, when you start to get closer towards uh race day, when you're starting to do more intervals, more hills, more sprint work, then you can start pairing that with your strength training as well.
22:23
SPEAKER_00: So doing more explosive movements, um, lesser reps, higher weight.
22:29
SPEAKER_01: Got it.
22:30
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
22:30
SPEAKER_00: Yep, yep.
22:32
SPEAKER_01: Where does upper body play into this?
22:35
SPEAKER_01: Um, wherever you want to.
22:39
SPEAKER_01: I feel you know, some ones want it for aesthetics, some say, you know, I hear often like, no, maybe you do want to work on like back and stuff because you know you're gonna be your arms.
22:48
SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, and there's that age of like no, you don't need it because you're just running, so skip it.
22:54
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
22:55
SPEAKER_00: I like working it in because it I feel like it makes you a more well-rounded athlete, right?
23:00
SPEAKER_00: So if you're gonna be doing those for going back to your previous question, those uh more explosive movements, then I would pair that with your upper body as well.
23:08
SPEAKER_00: Um, but just because you are using your leg doesn't mean your upper body isn't getting the work.
23:12
SPEAKER_00: I have runners that come in often, they're like, oh, my shoulders are so tight and my neck is because they tense and they uh those muscles help with their posture when you run.
23:20
SPEAKER_00: Um so yes, they're not directly doing the work of the actual running, but you are swinging your arms, you're moving your upper body, you're stabilizing through your core and using your shoulders and your arms to swing yourself.
23:30
SPEAKER_00: Um, so it is still important.
23:32
SPEAKER_00: I would say yes, it's not as important as working your legs um because again, you're running with your legs, but you do use your arms and your shoulders and your core and your neck to run.
23:41
SPEAKER_00: So I would definitely, you know, obviously it's not going to be your focus point of doing upper body lists at the gym, um, but it is still very important.
23:50
SPEAKER_01: No, agreed myself.
23:51
SPEAKER_01: I just kind of want to also get your take.
23:53
SPEAKER_01: I often hear like runners, I've coached, and it's like, oh yeah, I just finished the race and my shoulders are tense, and it's like you've been carrying a bottle for two hours.
24:01
SPEAKER_00: That's too that's a good point.
24:02
SPEAKER_00: Let me even think about that.
24:03
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and if a lot of people wear the backpacks as well.
24:06
SPEAKER_00: So um, but yes, it is it is a lot of good work.
24:08
SPEAKER_00: Yep.
24:09
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you know, if you're doing a trail race and you got poles or ultra or something, you know, it it it can get tough out there where like you do want a little bit of that arm strength to kind of alleviate that that incline invert and whatnot.
24:20
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, that's a good point.
24:21
SPEAKER_01: You uh mentioned you lift a lot, so three days a week, you run three days a week.
24:24
SPEAKER_01: Uh, you know, we didn't touch on this, but now now I'm curious.
24:27
SPEAKER_01: You know, tell me a little bit about uh your running, uh like races you've done, like your your fitness and your day-to-day.
24:32
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so Monday, Wednesday, Friday is when I lift, and then I run Tuesday, Thursday, Saturday.
24:36
SPEAKER_00: Um Saturday is more of the uh the longer run, sort of say, but I'm only doing about 15 miles per week right now.
24:43
SPEAKER_00: Um I did, let's see, your marathon.
24:46
SPEAKER_00: What was that?
24:46
SPEAKER_00: End of February, uh, beginning of March was my last my last race.
24:50
SPEAKER_00: I guess technically I did a 10 miler.
24:51
SPEAKER_00: Um what was that in April?
24:53
SPEAKER_00: Um so right now, you know, it's summer, it's hot.
24:56
SPEAKER_00: I'm not gonna be drinking for any race because I hate running in this heat.
25:00
SPEAKER_00: And uh I would say everybody would agree with me.
25:02
SPEAKER_00: But um I'm doing a half marathon coming up this fall.
25:05
SPEAKER_00: Um, I want to say it's late October, early November.
25:08
SPEAKER_00: Uh I can't remember the exact day.
25:10
SPEAKER_00: I need to look into it, but City of Oaks and Raleigh, um, half marathon.
25:14
SPEAKER_00: And then I'm gonna do another marathon this coming spring.
25:17
SPEAKER_00: Um, haven't decided yet, but I do uh have a couple in mind that I'm um that I've kind of researched in the past.
25:25
SPEAKER_00: But so that's kind of like where I'm at right now in my training schedule and block.
25:29
SPEAKER_00: When I can, uh I have a I have a toddler at home on a year and a half old.
25:33
SPEAKER_00: So um it's whenever it can it can get done.
25:36
SPEAKER_00: And that's kind of been uh been the the fun thing about it too, where it's okay, every day is different, right?
25:42
SPEAKER_00: Not just me and my professional life, but my personal life as well.
25:45
SPEAKER_00: He's been sleeping good here recently, so I've been getting up early in the morning, but there have been plenty of times where I'm gonna okay, I'm saying I'm gonna get up early and go for a run, and the night doesn't go well, so okay, then I'll just move it to that evening after I put him down to bed.
26:00
SPEAKER_00: So it's wherever I can get get the time, and my wife has been great with helping me out with that, especially this last training block with my marathon, where um either it would be first thing in the morning where uh he'd still be asleep, or I like I said, late at night when after I put him down, just have him on the on the monitor and run the treadmill, or it was great where I'd time it up with uh with him taking a nap in the middle of the day.
26:22
SPEAKER_00: And you know, during the winter, I love to run in the winter when it's cold.
26:25
SPEAKER_00: Um I can run around lunchtime when it's not that hot, where now that's impossible.
26:32
SPEAKER_00: So uh but she's been great with helping me out with that.
26:34
SPEAKER_01: That's awesome, man.
26:35
SPEAKER_01: I had the the support from the missus, and uh, you know, I'm sure you're a little bit happy of getting a little bit more sleep than when uh he was maybe six, eight months younger.
26:42
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's and it's fun too.
26:43
SPEAKER_00: So on those like long runs on the on the weekends, you know, I have a little running stroller, which I've uh post videos of doing with him all the time.
26:49
SPEAKER_00: So uh so I take him with me and it's it's a lot of fun.
26:53
SPEAKER_00: He uh he either loves it or he falls asleep.
26:56
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I'm always amazed uh when I see the the parents running on a stroller and and and just flying by and you're just like, man, that's that's some one dedication, but two, like some strength training right there.
27:06
SPEAKER_00: And the kids are so I call it a sled push as uh one of my striva, I'd say, you know, not morning run, morning sled push.
27:15
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean I I love it, man.
27:17
SPEAKER_01: You're prioritizing both, you know, the family, but also taking care of yourself, man.
27:21
SPEAKER_01: And so kudos to you for doing that while also physical therapy work, running coaches, clients, I'm sure.
27:27
SPEAKER_00: Yep, yep, yep.
27:28
SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
27:30
SPEAKER_01: Awesome.
27:30
SPEAKER_01: Let's talk stretching.
27:32
SPEAKER_01: Uh I have a question for you before we start stretching, though.
27:34
SPEAKER_01: Uh one I want to bounce off of you.
27:37
SPEAKER_01: Right?
27:37
SPEAKER_01: We all know we need to stretch, and I think it's very known out there that dynamic versus static and when to do each, you know, maybe we can touch on that a little bit.
27:46
SPEAKER_01: But what I really want to ask you is are we stretching too much?
27:50
SPEAKER_01: And the reason why I asked that is because are we losing energy stored energy from stretching too much?
27:55
SPEAKER_01: Not most people, but for those that do stretch.
27:58
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
27:59
SPEAKER_00: Um, I would say no.
28:01
SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, on the general population wise, I would say majority of people need to stretch more.
28:07
SPEAKER_00: Um, because I I mean that's just kind of what I see from patients coming in.
28:10
SPEAKER_00: Okay, yes, we have these areas of our body that are pretty tight.
28:13
SPEAKER_00: Um, so I would say no, I don't think we're at the point where a lot of people are stretching too much.
28:18
SPEAKER_00: Just by the nature of, I mean, let's think about what we do for a living, right?
28:22
SPEAKER_00: Me, it's great because I move around all day.
28:23
SPEAKER_00: I'm treating patients, but I would say the majority of the population, they're they're sitting at a desk, they're working on their computer, you know, they're looking at their phone.
28:30
SPEAKER_00: So you're in this kind of static position for a very long time where stretching is going to be very beneficial.
28:36
SPEAKER_00: Um, so I wouldn't say we're at the point yet where uh stretching too much.
28:40
SPEAKER_00: Now, there are some people that have come out and be like, okay, let's let's kind of take a step back a little bit and maybe try some other things that can help with mobility.
28:47
SPEAKER_00: Um, but no, I I I think uh, you know, and then back to your question about kind of the static and dynamic.
28:53
SPEAKER_00: Um if we think about running, it's a very fluid movement, right?
28:57
SPEAKER_00: So that's where those dynamic stretches beforehand are going to be very beneficial to mimic what running is.
29:03
SPEAKER_00: Um so I would say before you run, dynamic warm-up.
29:06
SPEAKER_00: So those kind of quick movements um get your heart rate up and get some blood flow to those areas of your body, uh, that will help prepare you to run.
29:14
SPEAKER_00: Um, and then afterwards is when I say, okay, let's do more of the static stretching stuff.
29:18
SPEAKER_00: So that's when, okay, your calves are tight, hamstrings are tight, whatever it may be.
29:22
SPEAKER_00: Let's do some static stretching right after you run.
29:25
SPEAKER_00: Um, and then static stretching kind of as needed throughout the day, especially those that I say that I see that are you know working on their computer throughout the day.
29:33
SPEAKER_00: It doesn't have to be you take breaks and stretch.
29:36
SPEAKER_00: Uh, a lot of the conversations that I have with patients, I'll say, okay, just set an alarm on your phone or your computer, whatever it may be, just move off once an hour and just stand up.
29:45
SPEAKER_00: Just go grab a drink of water and go to the bathroom.
29:48
SPEAKER_00: It doesn't have to be a whole stretching routine.
29:50
SPEAKER_00: It's just breaking the position that you've been in all day.
29:53
SPEAKER_00: Um, that's usually the advice that I that I give to my patients.
29:57
SPEAKER_01: I like that about breaking the the you know pattern you're in, you know, what especially most people sitting down nowadays.
30:03
SPEAKER_01: Most jobs are kind of Zoom call or whatever, uh and symmetry for most of the day.
30:08
SPEAKER_01: And I often see runners who are like, oh yeah, I'm running all the time and I got 10, 15 miles in today, and it's like they're stretching pre and after, but you're sitting down the rest of the day.
30:18
SPEAKER_01: You know, the body like is done for the rest of the the majority of hours.
30:22
SPEAKER_01: You're then you go home, you go sit down and relax because you're resting and you're not getting out there walking or whatever the case is.
30:28
SPEAKER_00: Um but yeah, so it's those minor adjustments, like you said, walking.
30:32
SPEAKER_00: It's it doesn't have to be a lot, just just moving your body in a way that's gonna help with blood flow and help prevent some of that tightness and soreness that you experience.
30:39
SPEAKER_00: And even if when you're sitting, it's just kind of making little minor adjustments, you know, adjusting your chair.
30:44
SPEAKER_00: Uh it doesn't have to be a lot, just kind of straightening your legs, keeping them out straight.
30:47
SPEAKER_00: Like it just little minor things are gonna do wonders.
30:51
SPEAKER_01: On that note, uh, I've seen you post this a few times, and I kind of want to talk about this as well.
30:57
SPEAKER_01: Knowing when to push through or when to stop, how do you help people make that distinction?
31:01
SPEAKER_01: And is there any tips you can share for someone to go, hey, you know, you're good, keep pushing, you know, it's just DOMs or hey, stop.
31:08
SPEAKER_01: That might be a little bit more serious.
31:10
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so if it's something that I guess if you like we can talk about the pain scale here first because it varies for everybody, but the general recommendation I give, okay, if it's like a three or higher, so it's there, it's really kind of uncomfortable, it's it's not really going away.
31:28
SPEAKER_00: Okay, that's what I would say I'd stop.
31:29
SPEAKER_00: If it's something that's a little bit less than that, one to two to three, um, then I would say that's okay, especially if it's something that that improves and changes pretty quickly.
31:39
SPEAKER_00: Um, if it goes away within about 24 hours or so, that would be something I would say, okay, keep pushing through that.
31:44
SPEAKER_00: A lot of times when I am working with injured runners, when they do return to running and when we are gonna go into exercises and things like that, you know, I tell them, hey, we're doing new things that your body's not used to.
31:54
SPEAKER_00: So you might have a little bit of discomfort, and that's okay.
31:57
SPEAKER_00: That's your body's natural response of saying, This is new, what is going on, what is this?
32:01
SPEAKER_00: If it's normal and natural, then it will go away shortly and it will improve the more you do.
32:06
SPEAKER_00: But if it's something that lingers and it sticks around and it gets worse the more you run, um, then that's when I would say, okay, let's let's stop, let's tone it down.
32:14
SPEAKER_00: And it doesn't even have to be a full stop.
32:16
SPEAKER_00: Uh what I tell people, okay, you you run, say if it you run to two miles, okay, and that's when you start to notice your pain and it kind of lingers for the rest of your run.
32:24
SPEAKER_00: Okay, so once you get to two miles, we'll start doing intervals, right?
32:26
SPEAKER_00: So just take a minute walk and or a minute or two, just kind of let your body reset, start running again.
32:32
SPEAKER_00: You know, even just that kind of minor reset of just your body giving it a break can be helpful.
32:37
SPEAKER_00: And that way you have time to check in once you start running, or excuse me, once you start walking.
32:44
SPEAKER_00: Um, because then you have that kind of more heightened sense of awareness.
32:47
SPEAKER_00: Okay, how do I feel?
32:48
SPEAKER_00: What's going on?
32:50
SPEAKER_00: Um, is walking better than running right now?
32:52
SPEAKER_00: And then once you do that another transition again back to running, then you can see that difference.
32:57
SPEAKER_00: So um that would be kind of a recommendation, especially for runners coming back from injury.
33:04
SPEAKER_01: I I like that about the check-in.
33:05
SPEAKER_01: Uh, it's kind of hard to do when you're just moving and going, especially if you're going at faster paces.
33:10
SPEAKER_01: You know, you're not, you know, you're thinking about the faster pace, the muscles are firing, your heart rate's up, you know, your mentals in the game, and you you don't have that pause break to go, oh, wait a minute, I'm feeling something, or have been feeling something for the past like 10 minutes or so.
33:24
SPEAKER_00: That's the whole other side of it too, where you have that mental aspect of um, you know, me personally, I grew up playing sports, so I was always taught, okay, just push through, you keep going, you know, you you never quit, you never stop, you know, no matter how you're feeling, you've got to keep going, right?
33:38
SPEAKER_00: So I feel like that's a great mindset to have, but it can also be detrimental to some runners where they're just gonna push through pain, they're gonna push through injury, and they're just gonna keep telling themselves, I'll be all right, I'll be all right, I'll keep going, I'll keep going.
33:51
SPEAKER_00: But that actually can make things a little bit worse.
33:52
SPEAKER_00: So that's something personally that I've dealt with where it's like, wow, it's it actually is kind of hard to kind of tone it back a little bit when you grow up with this mindset of just push through no matter what.
34:01
SPEAKER_00: So, but again, that's that that mental aspect is a whole nother um and a whole nother side of it.
34:07
SPEAKER_01: Oh yeah, for sure.
34:08
SPEAKER_01: Like uh definitely guilty like you, just like you mentioned, you know, just pushing through, and next thing you know, you just done more damage than you could have if you had just stopped.
34:16
SPEAKER_01: Just go, we'll get through it.
34:18
SPEAKER_01: Uh, you know, no days off, uh no easy, you know, that that kind of mindset.
34:23
SPEAKER_00: Yep, yeah.
34:24
SPEAKER_00: Oftentimes I have patients come in like, oh, I should have came in two or three weeks ago, or whatever it may be, like, oh, it was all right.
34:30
SPEAKER_00: Like, I feel like if I just worked on it right here and then then would have gone away, but no, I kept pushing and then it's but it's worse now.
34:37
SPEAKER_00: It's something it's something that patients often say when they when they come in.
34:42
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, every everyone wants to see the doctor once it's like really bad and stopping you, but never uh beforehand or preventatively.
34:50
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, exactly.
34:53
SPEAKER_01: Uh talking about that, what what are some ways you you uh suggest to like you know recurring patients or or just even from your running running coaching side on people uh to you like prehab work?
35:05
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, like kind of what things can you do to help prehab, is that what you mean?
35:09
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
35:11
SPEAKER_00: Kind of one thing that we already talked about is uh kind of the stretching and warm-up situation.
35:15
SPEAKER_00: So you would be surprised how many people were asked, oh, like what do you do for your running warm-up?
35:19
SPEAKER_00: Well, I'll just kind of go out there, shake my legs around a little bit, you know, do kind of little head head twist and then start running, um, which doesn't prep your body well enough to begin running, where those first that first mile doesn't feel great, right?
35:32
SPEAKER_00: It's it sucks.
35:33
SPEAKER_00: Well honestly, it's so simple, but just make sure you're doing a proper warm-up of making sure your body is ready to go, doing some dynamic stretches, doing some quick movements to prep your body to run.
35:43
SPEAKER_00: Same thing afterwards.
35:44
SPEAKER_00: Uh stretching, I mean, it doesn't have to be a lot, it can be just a five-minute routine of just doing a static stretch, doing some foam rolling.
35:52
SPEAKER_00: I tell people if they don't have a massage gun, get one because if you're a runner, your muscles are going to be sore.
35:58
SPEAKER_00: Lily, you're sitting around during this conversation, I can have my massage gun right here on my quad, right?
36:03
SPEAKER_00: That can be pretty, I mean, it could it's so simple, but it can go a long way, right?
36:08
SPEAKER_00: So just doing little things to help take care of your body.
36:11
SPEAKER_00: Um, and then kind of I'm a big you know, we kind of talked about this, but I'm a big proponent of strength training.
36:17
SPEAKER_00: I think to be a good runner, you need to be stable, you need to be strong, um, you need to be able to have that stability and strength to push through, especially on those longer runs.
36:27
SPEAKER_00: Um, so making sure you're in the gym.
36:29
SPEAKER_00: And it doesn't have to be you lifting heavy, heavy weight free weights.
36:33
SPEAKER_00: It could be just doing a couple of simple machine, simple exercises where you could be getting getting that strength benefit.
36:40
SPEAKER_00: That would be kind of my my recommendation.
36:41
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's interesting for anyone listening, you know.
36:44
SPEAKER_01: Um, and it's important.
36:45
SPEAKER_01: I mean, uh, sounds like we both have learned it the hard way, and now you're actually teaching it in a doctor.
36:50
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
36:53
SPEAKER_01: But uh, you know, something and and a few things is is better than nothing, and even more so, continue, just keep doing it, and you'll get less injured.
37:01
SPEAKER_01: Uh, I've seen a lot of PTs, which is a bad thing to be happy about.
37:05
SPEAKER_01: But um talking about massage guns, um, you know, what other tools?
37:11
SPEAKER_01: Well, massage gun is one.
37:13
SPEAKER_01: Got that because you're using it.
37:14
SPEAKER_01: What type of recovery tools do you favor uh versus some you don't favor?
37:19
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, um massage guns are great, foam mowers are great.
37:22
SPEAKER_00: Um that's something where I see a lot of runners and patients missing out on is foam mowing um and the benefits of foam rolling.
37:30
SPEAKER_00: Um with that, I kind of pair that in with any type of like lacrosse ball or like massage type tool um where you get the foam rolling like effects with using a lacrosse ball if it'd be the bottom of your feet, or kind of just more of a uh kind of a pinpoint um pressure in your muscles with using a lacrosse ball.
37:49
SPEAKER_00: For example, massage gun.
37:50
SPEAKER_00: We talked about those uh other recovery tools.
37:53
SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, there's a lot uh out there with heat and ice and cold tubs and cold plunges and all that and that good stuff.
38:01
SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, I would say from the research that I've read is kind of mixed, um, where some people say, okay, let's there been more benefit of people doing cold plunges versus not.
38:13
SPEAKER_00: Um but really the key takeaway of what I tell a lot of patients is whatever feels good to you, right?
38:18
SPEAKER_00: So if if you get good benefits of doing cold plunges and you feel a lot better and you feel a lot more recovered, then that's gonna be beneficial for you, right?
38:28
SPEAKER_00: So versus not somebody hates the cold tub, ah, it just makes me feel stiff, and it really doesn't do it for me, then I'll say you're not you're not missing anything if you're not doing it.
38:36
SPEAKER_00: So it's not that it's a it's a negative of doing kind of cold or hot tubs, it's all about how it makes you feel, right?
38:41
SPEAKER_00: So if your mind is telling your body I feel good, that itself is a therapeutic tool that you should tune into.
38:49
SPEAKER_00: Even if probably scientifically it's not really doing much for you.
38:53
SPEAKER_00: If your mind is telling your body that it is doing a lot for you, then it will, then it will be beneficial for you.
38:58
SPEAKER_00: Um so I'd say just do what makes you feel good.
39:02
SPEAKER_01: That's a great takeaway.
39:03
SPEAKER_01: And part of what I want to ask you, I I've read some, again, not a doctor here for anyone listening, but I've read some of the studies and I was like, man, it's you know, because I I'm sure we'll all get to this.
39:12
SPEAKER_01: We go down this rabbit hole, you see it online, you're like, man, I want that.
39:15
SPEAKER_01: Oh, if they're recovering like that, I want that too.
39:17
SPEAKER_01: And then I want, and then you go in your house and you're like, man, I have more recovery tools than Dr.
39:21
SPEAKER_01: Hunter.
39:25
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
39:26
SPEAKER_01: You know, and it's like what's working, what's not, and it's also hard to uh pinpoint.
39:29
SPEAKER_01: I'm sure you get this with patients where it's so hard to pinpoint something because you they're trying eight things at once.
39:35
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, and and two, yeah, because if you are using all these different recovery tools, okay, yes, what is working, what's not.
39:41
SPEAKER_00: And two, I kind of this circles back to something we already talked about, but your run form, right?
39:45
SPEAKER_00: So if you're dealing with injury and you recover from it, then you're using all these recovery tools, but you continuously are running in a way that is detrimental to your body and causing injury, then you're gonna continuously, this is gonna be something that's gonna continuously happen.
39:59
SPEAKER_00: So no matter what kind of recovery tool that you have, um, if you don't change those little things like your run form um and start to do whatever may be strength training-wise, I can help you with your run form and help you with your stability when you run, then the recovery tools are just gonna be kind of a band-aid, not necessarily something that's gonna actually heal you long term.
40:18
SPEAKER_01: On a similar note, but I want to pivot to this.
40:20
SPEAKER_01: Can we talk shoes?
40:21
SPEAKER_01: And just for anyone listening, I just want to be clear.
40:24
SPEAKER_01: No expert on shoe here.
40:25
SPEAKER_01: And Dr.
40:26
SPEAKER_01: Hunter, you could have telling his closure, but he's a physical therapist, not a shoe expert.
40:31
SPEAKER_01: But I'm sure you see some stuff.
40:32
SPEAKER_01: What have you seen?
40:33
SPEAKER_01: What has the research that you've read tell you on the kind of shoes we're using now and its impact on, say, muscle imbalances or or muscle strength, you know, and what I'm getting at to be more specific.
40:43
SPEAKER_01: Uh, and it's okay if there's not much, but uh high stat shoe, low stat shoe, uh, people who strengthen, you know, that kind of stuff.
40:49
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so I'm not no I'm no expert in shoes either, but I can tell you what I've seen and trends that I've seen.
40:55
SPEAKER_00: Um shoes nowadays are getting a lot thicker.
40:58
SPEAKER_00: So the soles themselves are are increasing.
41:02
SPEAKER_00: The reason for that is people are getting me shoes and they're like, oh, it makes it feel like I'm walking on clouds, it's super soft, it feels just very cushiony, it feels good on my joints, right?
41:11
SPEAKER_00: So that's why the the shoes are trending in that direction from a brand standpoint.
41:16
SPEAKER_00: Um, now what that looks like in terms of injury, where okay, if you are having a shoe that has a kind of bigger sole, and that is softer in is more cushioning, um, cushioning, then it feels like you are kind of on an unstable surface almost.
41:33
SPEAKER_00: Like you're standing on a pillow, or if you've been to PT, standing on one of those swim pads, that a lot of PTs make you stand on a bosu.
41:40
SPEAKER_00: That's what it can do to your body.
41:41
SPEAKER_00: If you think about it, that kind of big, big, big uh, big uh big picture standpoint of kind of standing on a bosu where you are having to stabilize a little bit more and utilize the muscles that surround your feet and your ankle to move.
41:55
SPEAKER_00: Um, those are trends that I've seen.
41:57
SPEAKER_00: That's personally with my running shoes.
42:00
SPEAKER_00: I like a shoe that isn't like that because I like feeling the ground.
42:03
SPEAKER_00: I like to feel the impact because when I do run with a shoe that is super thick and has that giant sole, I do feel kind of wobbly on my ankles.
42:10
SPEAKER_00: Um, so again, that's kind of what I've seen trend-wise over the last couple of years in my my experience with it too.
42:17
SPEAKER_01: I I had an injury last year and you know, it's all heel now.
42:20
SPEAKER_01: It was more like knee stuff, but I remember specifically we were doing a lot of balance on one foot.
42:24
SPEAKER_01: So as you mentioned, you know, for strength training, it's important to work on one foot at a time since it's literally one foot at a time running.
42:31
SPEAKER_01: And I had I had all the best high stack shoes at the market at the time, you know, and it's like I can't balance anything from one foot at the time I started shifting my shoes a little bit more.
42:43
SPEAKER_01: And don't get me wrong, I love high-stack just as much as anyone, but like I rotate it more.
42:47
SPEAKER_01: And and they all often we hear rotate shoes, but what most people assume is just rotate shoes and not different kinds of shoes.
42:53
SPEAKER_01: So I wanted to ask you from a PT standpoint of you know, what are you seeing?
42:57
SPEAKER_01: And and you know, you're seeing injuries, you're seeing people working on balances and whatnot.
43:01
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so um a lot of shoes are getting more personalized, right?
43:05
SPEAKER_00: They have the stability shoes and then the mobility shoes and all and all those.
43:09
SPEAKER_00: So it is more personalized to the individual.
43:11
SPEAKER_00: Um, but I think that's a good thing, though.
43:13
SPEAKER_00: So um, you know, and then obviously there's this kind of uh uh increase in people wearing orthotics too, which can be beneficial to some people.
43:23
SPEAKER_00: But if you're somebody that hasn't worn an orthotic before and you haven't had any foot or ankle issues, then I would say that then you don't need you don't necessarily need one.
43:31
SPEAKER_00: Um I'd rather you work on the stability of your ankle and feet from the muscles themselves rather than having an artificial device that's in there that's doing more of the work for you.
43:40
SPEAKER_00: Because then if you change your shoe or you take that away, then it's gonna be a shock to your to your ankle, and all of a sudden your posterior tip is gonna be one of those muscles that are gonna be saying, Whoa, what is all this work that I'm having to do?
43:51
SPEAKER_00: I'm not used to this.
43:52
SPEAKER_00: Um, where people become reliant on those orthotics and specific types of shoes.
43:56
SPEAKER_00: So it's it's it's good, and there's also some negatives to it.
44:00
SPEAKER_00: As well.
44:00
SPEAKER_00: Um, but uh again, just finding that that right mixture for you.
44:03
SPEAKER_00: Again, if you haven't worn orthotics and you haven't had any foot or ankle issues, I'll say you probably don't need any.
44:09
SPEAKER_01: I'm glad you brought that up.
44:10
SPEAKER_01: Funny enough, that was my follow-up to this is uh your take on insults.
44:14
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
44:14
SPEAKER_01: Um you know, strength versus using the insult.
44:17
SPEAKER_01: Um Yeah.
44:18
SPEAKER_00: So now anatomically wise, your body and your bony alignment of where your feet and your ankle kind of line up.
44:25
SPEAKER_00: Uh some people are they set you up, um, basically your anatomy sets you up for for failure, so to say, um, where you're having to do more work with your ankle just because of the structure of your foot.
44:35
SPEAKER_00: Now, if that's the case, then that's somebody who would benefit from an orthotic from my standpoint, where without it, the there's there's they're injured, you know, it's called in pain, it's not comfortable.
44:46
SPEAKER_00: Um, but so they can be beneficial.
44:49
SPEAKER_00: It depends on, like I said, your foot shape, your injury history, and all that.
44:52
SPEAKER_01: So anything from your experience um talking about shoes, but like on super shoes, like plates and stuff like that?
45:00
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, um, I think they're great to use for races, not for everyday training.
45:04
SPEAKER_00: I'd rather you use your muscles themselves to propel yourself forward rather than getting a little bit of boost from a shoe.
45:10
SPEAKER_00: Um, but if you're going for a certain time for a race and there's this technology out there that's gonna help you, definitely use it.
45:17
SPEAKER_00: That's gonna be helpful for you, right?
45:19
SPEAKER_00: Um, but everyday training, I would say those kind of carbon fiber uh plates within their shoes, uh those yeah, super shoes, those racing shoes, I would say let's keep those for race day.
45:30
SPEAKER_00: But training wise, it should be in just a kind of normal shoe without it.
45:33
SPEAKER_01: Gotcha.
45:34
SPEAKER_01: Can we talk dorsey flexion and the importance of dorsiflexion in in running?
45:38
SPEAKER_00: So dorsiflexion is not only important when you run, it's I mean just any type of movement, right?
45:42
SPEAKER_00: So um if you see somebody that limps, the reason why they're limping is either one, they can't tolerate the amount of pressure that's going through their foot, or two, they don't have enough dorsiflexion range of motion to bring their knee forward uh almost past your toe, right?
45:59
SPEAKER_00: So that's a whole other discussion, too, about knees over toes, but um going up and down stairs, standing from a chair, your knee has to translate forward, which is that dorsiflexion range of motion, kind of that bending backward of your ankle, right?
46:12
SPEAKER_00: So if you have adequate dorsiflexion each time when you run, when your foot and ankle is bending back, it's almost correcting this tensile force through your plane reflexors where it's gonna kind of smack forward.
46:24
SPEAKER_00: So if you kind of pull your finger back and it kind of smacks, having adequate dorsiflexion the further you go back, the more force is gonna propel you forward.
46:33
SPEAKER_00: Now, if you're lacking some of that dorsiflexion, then you're not gonna have as great of a push-off because of that spring-like mechanism isn't gonna be there.
46:40
SPEAKER_00: So that's why it's important um to propel you forward, but also just with your gait and your mechanics, where uh if you don't have it, then it can lead to other type of injuries, uh like stress fractures or um just joint stability and things like that.
46:56
SPEAKER_01: What's a quick way?
46:57
SPEAKER_01: I know there's a lot, just you can say one or two to work on that.
47:01
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
47:01
SPEAKER_00: Um just a simple cast stretch.
47:03
SPEAKER_00: So standing on a stair, uh just letting your heels kind of sink uh lower than your toes, um, or kind of like a wall stretch where you're leaning up against the wall, um, keeping your foot flat um and trying to drive that knee as far forward as you can.
47:15
SPEAKER_00: So that's gonna be more of a stretch.
47:17
SPEAKER_00: What's called a joint mobilization is where you can use a resistance band that's gonna loop around the front of your ankle, um, which I think that the post uh that you're referring to, I that was the that was the video that I was doing where basically you have a tight band around the the front of your ankle joint and it's attached kind of behind you, and then you just kind of lean forward with your knee.
47:39
SPEAKER_00: When you lean forward with your knee, that band is gonna be pushing down and back, which is gonna be mobilizing the joint of your foot.
47:45
SPEAKER_01: Got it.
47:46
SPEAKER_01: I'll link that here in the description for everyone.
47:48
SPEAKER_01: So if you're listening to this party, you're going, I can't visualize this, it'll be linked in the notes, or you can just click on uh Hunter's page um and see that video.
47:56
SPEAKER_01: So um when we ask you some quick, rapid questions here, real quick.
48:00
SPEAKER_01: Um be ready for it.
48:03
SPEAKER_01: Ready.
48:04
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
48:05
SPEAKER_01: What's one thing you wish all runners stopped doing from a PT standpoint?
48:10
SPEAKER_00: Um I would say in general, this isn't necessarily from a PT standpoint, but just comparing themselves to other runners of just running your pace, your goals, your race, whatever it is.
48:21
SPEAKER_00: Uh, you know, a lot of people get caught up on they're slow or you know, how do you run that far, how do you do this or that.
48:27
SPEAKER_00: Just getting out there and running is a accomplishment and a goal in itself.
48:31
SPEAKER_00: So um, I would say quit focusing on what other people are doing because they don't live the life that you live and they don't have your body and your experience and everything.
48:39
SPEAKER_00: So quit comparing yourself to other people.
48:42
SPEAKER_01: Agreed.
48:43
SPEAKER_01: I I say it myself in doing this podcast in uh running coaching.
48:47
SPEAKER_01: Uh I've done it myself in the past.
48:49
SPEAKER_01: I'm sure everyone listening has.
48:51
SPEAKER_01: Um just getting out there.
48:53
SPEAKER_01: What is it they say?
48:54
SPEAKER_01: The cliche quote, but technically it shouldn't be a cliche because we're doing great things.
48:58
SPEAKER_01: Only 1% of the population of the world runs.
49:00
SPEAKER_01: That's a that's a great feat.
49:02
SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
49:03
SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
49:04
SPEAKER_00: Yep.
49:04
SPEAKER_00: And that's I mean, too, get in the gym, whatever it may be.
49:07
SPEAKER_00: You know, I see videos of people posting all the time and people making fun of others of the way they run or the way they look or the lift that they're doing.
49:14
SPEAKER_00: I'm just thinking in my head, how many people didn't even make it into the gym?
49:18
SPEAKER_00: How many people didn't even lace up their shoes and go for a run?
49:21
SPEAKER_00: And just doing just getting there and doing it is an accomplishment itself.
49:26
SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
49:26
SPEAKER_01: This next one I'm gonna steal from you because you gave me an idea as you said earlier, and I'll make it quick.
49:30
SPEAKER_01: Knees over toes, yes or bad.
49:33
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
49:34
SPEAKER_00: Yes, it is okay.
49:36
SPEAKER_00: Um functionally, you do it a lot more than you think.
49:39
SPEAKER_00: Going up and downstairs, getting up from a chair, standing up from the couch.
49:43
SPEAKER_00: Um, it happens all the time, and it's something that your body has to do to accomplish those those goals.
49:49
SPEAKER_00: So um now, I would say doing it um excessively with the heavy squat and your heels are lifting up, and that that's kind of more form and technique where knees, yes, the the the picture is your knees are going over your toes, but other things are happening that is causing that.
50:07
SPEAKER_00: So um, but overall, yes, knees are fine going over the toes.
50:11
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
50:13
SPEAKER_01: What's uh one strength movement or running pattern people should master?
50:20
SPEAKER_00: Ooh, strength movement or running pattern people should master.
50:25
SPEAKER_00: Um, I guess the easy answer would be squats.
50:28
SPEAKER_00: Um just because you're getting every muscle in your in your lower extremity.
50:32
SPEAKER_00: But to top that, I would say uh I I love sweat squats.
50:36
SPEAKER_00: A lot of people hate them because they suck.
50:39
SPEAKER_00: That's why people hate them.
50:40
SPEAKER_00: But they're really good for your uh single leg stability.
50:44
SPEAKER_00: Um the whole kind of chain, it really works it well.
50:47
SPEAKER_00: So um that and I would say a single leg RDL to get more posterior chain work and stability and balance at the same time.
50:56
SPEAKER_00: Um, so I would say those would be my top four.
50:58
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
50:59
SPEAKER_01: You you heard it there first guy.
51:01
SPEAKER_01: Split squats, uh, ladies and gentlemen.
51:04
SPEAKER_01: Some posterior work, some single leg RDLs.
51:07
SPEAKER_00: Uh yeah, it doesn't have to be complex.
51:09
SPEAKER_00: I see videos of people all the time doing some pretty wild stuff, which is hard to do, which a lot of people probably can't, but it can be as simple as, like I said, a lunge what squat, a single leg RDL, that's all you need.
51:20
SPEAKER_01: What's a a quote philosophy or a book that you take in pretty much every day to like everything you do, like your practice, uh physical therapy, um running coach, family?
51:33
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
51:33
SPEAKER_00: Um, let's see here.
51:35
SPEAKER_00: Quote or philosophy I take in every day.
51:38
SPEAKER_00: Um I can't remember the name of it, but uh, and I'm gonna kind of paraphrase it um because I can't remember the whole thing.
51:48
SPEAKER_00: But it's basically today is the beginning of a new day.
51:52
SPEAKER_00: God is giving you to this day to do as it as you wish.
51:55
SPEAKER_00: Uh, it could be for good, for bad, for better, for worse, whatever it may be, but it's up for you to decide.
52:01
SPEAKER_00: And what you do with this day is uh it's what basically what you what you wish of it.
52:07
SPEAKER_00: And uh and that's kind of what how I I think about my day and how about I go about my business, where you have a choice every single day of of what you want to do and and how you want to do it and who you're gonna be as a person.
52:18
SPEAKER_00: Um, your attitude, your effort, those are things that you can control.
52:22
SPEAKER_00: There's many things in life that you can't.
52:23
SPEAKER_00: So if you can just control those things that you can control well and have a good attitude about it, then you're gonna do do well in life.
52:30
SPEAKER_00: Whether it be your work, whether it be running, um, doesn't matter.
52:35
SPEAKER_00: Uh just having that kind of positive mindset is how I how I live my life.
52:39
SPEAKER_00: That's awesome.
52:40
SPEAKER_00: Yep.
52:41
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
52:41
SPEAKER_01: Agreed.
52:42
SPEAKER_01: Uh uh that's that's uh I know we're both paraphrasing, but that's one of my favorites too.
52:48
SPEAKER_01: I think of um I can't remember the quote now, funny enough, since we joked about paraphrasing, but from I got it from like one of the stoic uh readings and stuff, uh, Greek philosophy.
52:57
SPEAKER_01: Uh I forget the exact term, but it's basically similar, like controlling the controllables and your attitude, right?
53:02
SPEAKER_01: Um so I mean not to say I wholeheartedly agree with what what uh Doc here Hunter just said.
53:08
SPEAKER_01: So um double down, if you will.
53:11
SPEAKER_00: Oh yeah, there you go.
53:13
SPEAKER_01: Uh Doc, if people want to work with you and get in touch with you, where's the best way to uh reach you?
53:19
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, um you can just follow me on Instagram.
53:21
SPEAKER_00: It's uh Hethridge DPT.
53:24
SPEAKER_00: Um there you can shoot me a DM.
53:26
SPEAKER_00: I have a link to a uh link tree where you can shoot me an email.
53:28
SPEAKER_00: Um but yeah, just connecting with me on social media.
53:31
SPEAKER_00: I'm active every day.
53:32
SPEAKER_00: I post something every day.
53:33
SPEAKER_00: Um so I'll I definitely respond to DMs and uh and uh people who reach out to me.
53:38
SPEAKER_00: Um but yeah, I'll say Instagram would be the easiest.
53:41
SPEAKER_00: Um my personal email is just my first and last name, hunteretheridge at gmail.com.
53:46
SPEAKER_00: That's another way that you can reach out to me as well.
53:48
SPEAKER_00: Um yeah, just follow me on Instagram.
53:52
SPEAKER_01: Awesome.
53:53
SPEAKER_01: And and I'll link those here uh for everyone listening as well in the description, show notes and whatnot.
53:58
SPEAKER_01: Um, Dr.
53:59
SPEAKER_01: Hunter, I appreciate you.
54:00
SPEAKER_01: Thank you for a lot of the insights shared on here.
54:03
SPEAKER_01: For everyone listening, this has been the People Run podcast.
54:05
SPEAKER_01: Hope you got some takeaways on you know, certain movements to work on, certain strength ways to turn on, maybe some insights on mistakes we've made.
54:11
SPEAKER_01: If you like it, if you know someone benefits, share it.
54:13
SPEAKER_01: This has been the People Run podcast.
54:15
SPEAKER_01: You can reach us on any of the social media platforms or listen on Spotify Apple.
54:19
SPEAKER_01: Until next time, guys, this has been the People Run.
54:21
SPEAKER_02: Thank you.