Latest / Left of the Projector / Box Office Drop! Marty Supreme (2025) with HungryRye

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Box Office Drop! Marty Supreme (2025) with HungryRye · Left of the Projector

0:18
Track 1: Hello and welcome to Left of the Projector. I'm your host, Evan,
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Track 1: back again with another film discussion from the left.
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Track 1: you've got the best taste around.
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Track 1: Wherever you're listening, give us a rating and subscribe so you'll be notified
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Track 1: of our weekly episodes that drop every Tuesday. And now on to the show.
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Track 1: This week on Left of the Projector, we are coming at you with a box office drop,
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Track 1: fresh and in the theaters now.
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Track 1: We'll be discussing the Josh Safdie film, Marty Supreme. It stars,
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Track 1: of course, young Timothee Chalamet, Gwyneth Paltrow, Odessa Zion,
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Track 1: Kevin O'Leary, Abel Ferrara, Fran Drescher, and others.
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Track 1: With me to discuss i don't have the other hosts of left of the director but
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Track 1: i do have friend of the show i don't know why i why i stopped i was like you can call.
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Track 2: Me mariah is.
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Track 1: I know that that's that's what that's where i was like uh that's like.
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Track 2: Am i doxing you.
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Track 1: No i.
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Track 2: I'm mariah i am a non-fiction uh like left-wing book talker i guess and then
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Track 2: i also am the co-host of literary liberation podcast,
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Track 2: where me and my other co-host, Kristen, we do Marxist literary criticism of
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Track 2: different popular books that you see online, all fiction done through a Marxist lens.
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Track 2: And it all started here. So it's always fun coming back to my roots.
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Track 1: Yes, you can go back and listen to our many episodes together,
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Track 1: probably most well-known, or I
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Track 1: guess originally from our Lord of the Rings series going back a while now.
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Track 1: But this is the complete opposite of those films.
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Track 1: And I think, I don't even remember, I think you had gone to see it,
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Track 1: and I knew I wanted to see this while I was still in the theater.
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Track 1: And I have lots of thoughts, but I'm curious, this will be spoilers for the
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Track 1: film, as these episodes are.
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Track 1: But I'm curious when you, like, what were your expectations of this?
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Track 1: Mine were just like, it's fast paced, crazy, like, you know,
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Track 1: uncut gems, but the guy plays table tennis instead. And that was like the only thing I knew.
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Track 2: I didn't know what to expect going, right? It's a ping pong movie.
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Track 2: It's a ping pong movie. I was like, okay, like, I thought it was gonna be like
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Track 2: an interesting, like, biopic or something on like an individual and it's like
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Track 2: action and it's comedic and it's very tense.
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Track 2: And you're following like one of the most unlikable, terrible main characters
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Track 2: that you can watch. And then as soon as I finished it, I was like,
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Track 2: oh, my God, this is another this is a boy movie.
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Track 2: This is a movie that men are going to misunderstand.
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Track 2: Sorry, men like American Psycho and Fight Club.
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Track 2: I do think there's like a robust analysis you can have. I just haven't seen anyone give it yet.
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Track 2: And I did see somebody on TikTok saying, like, you guys are too woke to be enjoying Marty Supreme.
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Track 2: It's like, oh, that's not how like critical thinking and analysis works. I'm sorry.
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Track 1: And spoiler you can listen to us discuss both of
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Track 1: the movies you just mentioned american psycho and fight club if
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Track 1: you so chose to ironically little
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Track 1: plug yeah well and then we also did joker it's
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Track 1: like we're just here to do the the the films that are
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Track 1: viewed as cool dude bro movies and as like an aside when i went to see this
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Track 1: the first two rows of the theater were all like 20 to 25 year old men and then
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Track 1: like that it was mixed beyond that but it was yeah it was all these young dudes
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Track 1: and going in there to see and so the first thing that i was actually thinking about,
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Track 1: so timothy chalamet plays the main character in
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Track 1: this and i was thinking about the
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Track 1: idea of like the the alpha male sort
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Track 1: of you know uh kind of character and
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Track 1: he sort of like subverts that by being sort of
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Track 1: this sort of lanky you know kind of thin white
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Track 1: dude i mean granted it's a ping pong player or table tennis as he likes to say
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Track 1: so i don't know if that maybe they like who else could you get to play but like
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Track 1: do you think there's anything to having him be the like the the face of this
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Track 1: movie as you know scrawny guy.
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Track 2: I feel like with Dune that really launched his career trajectory and people
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Track 2: are I guess men are probably going to start realizing that he bagged like Kylie Jenner.
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Track 2: Like he you don't have to be like this idea that men have concocted like super juiced up,
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Track 2: you know, like big buff man who's doing like a blue collar job to get like the
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Track 2: dream girl, which is interesting because in this, though, like his whole character.
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Track 2: Is he has almost like the incel mentality he's very individualistic um he says
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Track 2: incredibly like hurtful and problematic things he doesn't give a fuck about
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Track 2: anybody around him he is like the character without like necessarily looking
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Track 2: like he dresses sharp he dresses sharp um but it's all kind of like.
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Track 1: A disguise yeah the it's
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Track 1: interesting one of the things that josh safty so for people who
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Track 1: know like his previous films are mostly with his brother but the
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Track 1: he kind of branched out doing them solo now he said
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Track 1: that the film is about rugged individualism in
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Track 1: sort of the post-war era and it's
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Track 1: sort of interesting how we can talk about the war aspect but
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Track 1: it's interesting because we see like the cost of being this rugged individual
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Track 1: and how lonely he was despite like his his bravado he's just a lonely person
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Track 1: and i i think in my mind that safty was making this film,
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Track 1: as a critique of these things which again people will miss and be like oh he promotes these things.
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Track 2: Yeah this was a really interesting point in history right like we're having
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Track 2: like the end of like the Truman presidency leading into the Eisenhower presidency.
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Track 2: Like this happens all after like World War II.
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Track 2: And President like Dwight D. Eisenhower is like what kicked off like the Red Scare and McCarthyism.
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Track 2: And I mean, he changed the Pledge of Allegiance under his administration to
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Track 2: like combat like the state atheist that is the USSR.
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Track 2: And I thought what was interesting in here is you do get like this almost throwaway
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Track 2: line from Timothee Chalamet's character,
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Track 2: Marty, where he's talking about world war ii and he's like well didn't the soviets
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Track 2: win world war ii when he's talking to what would i would consider like the rockefeller
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Track 2: like the guy from i can't remember what his character's name but it was an interesting
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Track 2: line because i was not expecting that and it was at that moment specifically
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Track 2: when i was like evan needs to review this yeah.
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Track 1: Yeah i heard that line too and like i that was one of the few things i got into
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Track 1: my phone as i'm leaving the theater i I think, yeah, the guy,
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Track 1: Kevin O'Leary, he plays Milton Rockwell, who's sort of the head of Rockwell pens.
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Track 1: Like that's his sort of, and I think it's kind of funny that he got that guy
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Track 1: to play him too. It was like this rich Zionist douchebag, you know.
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Track 1: But yeah yeah perfect.
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Track 2: Character perfect character to be an awful like they're all awful they're all
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Track 2: awful in their own little special ways but it's so like delectably awful that
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Track 2: i can't look away it's like a train wreck and it's beautifully executed.
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Track 1: Yeah and what the other thing about that he's so there's a there is an interview
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Track 1: with uh safty where he was talking about you know the using the war aspect and
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Track 1: he said um i think the victory of the second world war set aflame the idea of
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Track 1: the American dream, that an individual can change the world.
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Track 1: You can be anyone from anywhere, find glory, and there's a reason to your existence.
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Track 1: And then in the 80s, he goes on to say how Reagan tried to resurrect this idea
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Track 1: of the American dream, but at that point, it didn't exist anymore.
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Track 1: And so it seems like Marty is sort of fighting against the clock of,
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Track 1: or the concept that you could actually,
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Track 1: achieve the american dream and then you have this guy this rich ballpoint pen
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Track 1: you know conglomerate guy who has achieved that you know and it's he wants to
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Track 1: be him but he wants to do it himself like i don't know i don't know what i'm getting at.
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Track 2: No you're like perfectly like encapsulating like
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Track 2: the myth of the meritocracy like that's what this is showcasing because
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Track 2: through this yeah like yeah technically marty succeeds but it's
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Track 2: like at what cost like there is a cost here
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Track 2: there is like a human cost right we have lives that are
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Track 2: being lost um like his hustling
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Track 2: and bustling and just like his relationships with the people around him and
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Track 2: how he treats other people like he's willing to do anything to achieve like
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Track 2: the american exceptionalist idea of like i can make it in the world but he's
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Track 2: also not like money driven it's purely ego because he needs to be the best.
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Track 1: Completely ego and so as to give like a very like sketching of the plot if you
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Track 1: haven't seen it i It takes place in 1952 initially.
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Track 1: He works as a shoe salesman in his uncle's shop.
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Track 1: And he's doing this simply just to make enough money to go to London for one
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Track 1: of the big championships for ping pong or table tennis, whatever.
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Track 1: I'll say whichever one. And it kind of everything he does is sort of like very scam.
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Track 1: It reminds me in some ways, again, of like his previous film,
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Track 1: Uncut Gems, where he's frantically doing anything he can do,
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Track 1: you know, hustling people in ping pong, you know, stealing from people,
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Track 1: you know, lying to people.
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Track 1: Uh you know he holds his you know his uh
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Track 1: the other employee at the shoe depart the shoe store like at
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Track 1: gunpoint for the money that he's owed and then later gets you know
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Track 1: a cop paid to you know harass him and
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Track 1: threaten him about it and it's he's just he is insane and i don't know i thought
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Track 1: just i mean i'm not a big timothy chalamet fan in full disclosure this movie
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Track 1: might have slightly changed my mind because he's just so good in it not that
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Track 1: he's not good in other movies He really did.
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Track 2: No, like he, I don't know much about him outside of like what I see in like,
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Track 2: like social media like i know what is it um e
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Track 2: what was this the song do you
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Track 2: know what i'm talking about like they thought that he was a rapper it's
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Track 2: like ed boy i think is like who they thought it was
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Track 2: timothy chalamet and then timothy chalamet used it as a means of
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Track 2: like promoting marty supreme and he's
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Track 2: also done like the timothy chalamet lookalike content like he's
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Track 2: always he's very online i think he's really good at marketing the things that
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Track 2: he's doing and that's like why he's so like locked in i guess with the youth
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Track 2: is he's just he's a term he has to be there's no other way around it like this
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Track 2: man when he's not like filming is probably just sitting there scrolling and
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Track 2: it's working it's working so well it's.
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Track 1: Almost like he i want to say like he's hustling in real life like in this film
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Track 1: but in a way he sort of is i mean he pretty like jetted to being a superstar in not a very long time.
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Track 1: Like, I mean, you know, I guess that's how any of these actors get to where
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Track 1: they are, but it's... Oh, and I think the song you're thinking of is Easy to
11:30
Track 1: Kid or Easy something. Is that the one? Okay.
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Track 1: It just came to me. I was like, Easy.
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Track 2: Kid.
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Track 1: But yeah, I mean, the... What was the other... The other thing I...
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Track 1: The other question I was thinking about in this is...
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Track 1: The opening of the film is he is sort of sleeping with his childhood friend
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Track 1: who lives in the same building and is also married to an abusive man and gets her pregnant.
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Track 1: And then sort of the film spoiler ends where she gives birth and he sort of
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Track 1: takes ownership of some sense of his life.
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Track 1: What do you make of his, this is maybe too early to say this,
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Track 1: his trajectory in the film where he starts off as just trying to be the best,
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Track 1: thinks he's going to make it big.
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Track 1: He doesn't really take the opportunity he has several times throughout the film.
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Track 1: And ends up the only thing he ends up with is
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Track 1: a meaningless in real life victory against the japanese ping pong player like
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Track 1: the greatest ping pong player in the world at the moment and sort of gives that
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Track 1: up to sort of maybe have a family like is it a redemption or is it you know
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Track 1: actually we're not meant to view him as like being redeemed i guess.
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Track 2: I feel it almost feels satirical mainly because like the film starts with the
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Track 2: kind of um look who's talking style,
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Track 2: with this like the sperm traveling to the egg and then at the very end he's
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Track 2: like okay he's done all these things he's like cured his ego he's gonna be the
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Track 2: family man now and it ends with just like,
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Track 2: perpetual baby crying and i i cannot
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Track 2: let that be i that has
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Track 2: to be intentional that has to be like there's no way that it
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Track 2: ends there for them like he's just magically transformed after this
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Track 2: trip and he's had some actualization and ego death after his ping pong journey
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Track 2: um but i i think it's satirical i don't think he actually has changed i think
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Track 2: it's meant to like poke fun because that's like what people would have wanted
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Track 2: is that he had this transformation and he's just he's not he's still a piece
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Track 2: of shit through and through to the very end yeah.
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Track 1: Yeah i mean and i I think that the actor, or not the actor, the guy who plays the...
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Track 1: The rock well kevin o'leary i think he actually said
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Track 1: in some interviews that he wished that it he thought
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Track 1: it ended too quote-unquote happy he thought
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Track 1: it like he deserved to just sort of not be even
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Track 1: even the sniffing of like redemption like if you were to read it and like it's
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Track 1: kind of a happy ending like he comes home when he's with the you know the woman
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Track 1: he maybe loves or like he said he's loved you know who knows he kind of seems
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Track 1: to only love himself so i mean i I feel like it could have been even more pointed if it was that way.
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Track 1: Like he, you know, is stuck in Japan or something.
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Track 1: I don't know. Like has to work in a kitchen and like, he, I don't know. Less Hollywood.
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Track 2: It did kind of like give that like where I, I went on 4chan.
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Track 2: That was like the place I was looking for stuff for Marty Supreme.
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Track 2: It was like, what are, what are the people of 4chan saying?
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Track 2: And they were talking about that interview and they're like,
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Track 2: man, he is a piece of shit, a piece of shit, just like in the movie for suggesting
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Track 2: that, um, that Rachel should have died. I think it was what he wanted.
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Track 2: He was like, you should, you should just kill her off.
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Track 2: Which is kind of crazy that he was like, no, this would be better.
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Track 1: Yeah. I, yeah. And that's, I don't know. I'm fine with the way it ended.
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Track 1: And like in sandwich, like in between all that, I mentioned,
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Track 1: like we sort of talked about the Japanese thing.
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Track 1: But what I think is interesting about the Jap Japan plot, where sort of the,
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Track 1: it's based on like, again, like it's loosely based on, you know, real, real people.
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Track 1: But he loses to the Japanese player with this sort of new fancy paddle.
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Track 1: And it had a crazy name.
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Track 1: It was called the... Oh, fuck.
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Track 1: Man, it has a crazy name. Damn it.
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Track 1: The paddle that they invented oh it's called the atomic paddle which is pretty insane and especially.
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Track 2: Like when it came out like to call it the atomic pad like i know i was watching
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Track 2: like a history of table like i was very invested after this like learning about
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Track 2: table tennis and the history but like that paddle did completely change the game.
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Track 1: Yeah and it is it's interesting so well i guess what i was getting to is so
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Track 1: the the the japanese have sort of lost world war ii i think 1952 is the same year that the U.S.
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Track 1: Leaves Japan completely or mostly post-World War II and their punishment for
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Track 1: all their crimes they committed,
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Track 1: which sort of leaves and ignores the crimes that America committed by dropping two bombs on them.
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Track 1: Um but it it's it felt like japan needed
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Track 1: some sort of person or victory
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Track 1: to point to because they were still sort of
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Track 1: hanging their heads in shame from the loss of world war
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Track 1: ii and they're sort of like pinning it on this poor like ping pong player you
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Track 1: know uh out of as they're coming out of like isolation from like the thing so
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Track 1: it's an interesting storytelling device that fits well with sort of the historical moment.
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Track 2: Yeah because like what
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Track 2: we have like he's just like this hometown hero um
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Track 2: like is his name's koto sato
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Track 2: yes i'm trying to remember how to
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Track 2: say his name um throughout and like he everybody loves him they love him and
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Track 2: it's just like this american that comes in and just like fucks everything up
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Track 2: he's like like he's so driven by ego and it's like wow that's literally what
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Track 2: America did too though like they went and and then after World War II they like
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Track 2: made Japan become the way it is.
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Track 2: Which is so interesting because the Japanese prime minister now is a woman who's a fascist.
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Track 2: Am I remembering that correctly? You can cut that out if I'm incorrect.
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Track 2: But I'm pretty sure it was like a big thing that the girl bosses were like,
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Track 2: oh, she's a girl president, prime minister.
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Track 2: And she's actually about as bad as Trump with how she views like immigrants,
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Track 2: like Chinese immigrants and whatnot. I cannot remember her name.
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Track 1: Yeah, I know you're talking. I can't think of her name either. uh
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Track 1: and like what's also interesting about japan that at that
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Track 1: time too is it was this was before you know
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Track 1: japan became this like global leader in like
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Track 1: technology and all this but companies weren't really able to american companies
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Track 1: weren't able to really invest so much in japan at the time from my understanding
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Track 1: and this was the sort of uh you know the real post-world ritual like globalism
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Track 1: I hate kind of I kind of hate that word,
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Track 1: but like the idea that this global thing and sort of they instead of using corporations
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Track 1: and everything, they used a pen company and like ping pong to show like the
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Track 1: spread of things across the world. I don't know.
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Track 2: Yeah, there was a massive like power vacuum after World War II and it kind of
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Track 2: became consolidated between like the rise of communism,
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Track 2: which was a very fair competitor to what we were having with like the American
18:41
Track 2: like Western capitalism, which would include like England and stuff.
18:45
Track 2: Um this movie does a really good job of like making this very abundantly clear
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Track 2: and i'm just curious because i haven't been seeing it in any of the reviews
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Track 2: if anybody else has made these connections maybe you're not like as locked in
18:56
Track 2: but there is something here worthwhile to discuss and i don't know if it was their intention.
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Track 1: Um yeah but well there
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Track 1: was an interview with staff where he did go into
19:07
Track 1: some of like it was uh they they actually focus a
19:10
Track 1: lot about you know what would the film been like or could
19:13
Track 1: you have the same film if like the marty wasn't sort
19:16
Track 1: of this eccentric frantic jewish character
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Track 1: which i don't necessarily want to go down that kind
19:22
Track 1: of that path but one of the things he does ask him about is later in the film
19:27
Track 1: uh the the like the pen owner uh rockwell calls himself a vampire which i thought
19:34
Track 1: was like a very significant term I'm immediately thinking of Marx and capitalists,
19:40
Track 1: and they asked Afty about it, and apparently he ad-libbed that line.
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Track 1: It wasn't in the script, which is super interesting, the kind of call yourself a vampire.
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Track 1: And i think it's like the perfect term to he says it's a cold corporate capitalist,
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Track 1: colonialist and that they'll be around forever i don't see
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Track 1: them going anywhere and that's what and that there is an art to what they do
20:03
Track 1: obviously a lot of destruction but also sometimes beauty that's what safi said
20:07
Track 1: about that line and i don't know like that seems very poignant in relation to
20:14
Track 1: the Japan angle and the corporate structure and everything.
20:18
Track 1: Like, I feel like no one is really asking or talking about this either.
20:23
Track 2: This is why we need more podcasts like this popping up. When we're talking about
20:26
Track 2: we need more the Hassan Pikers, we need more of this, more discussion surrounding this.
20:32
Track 2: Because we need it. We need it so bad because people are consuming this uncritically,
20:37
Track 2: And they're not extracting this. They're very focused on whether or not like
20:40
Track 2: Marty as a individual is a good or bad person.
20:43
Track 2: I've seen a lot of people kind of like moralizing it. yes i was
20:47
Track 2: watching i was like yeah like that is a big theme obviously um
20:50
Track 2: but there's so much other stuff happening in the
20:53
Track 2: background that is like motivating the plot and it's not just him being like
20:56
Track 2: morally good or morally bad it's the social conditions that have driven him
21:00
Track 2: because it makes you think like okay table tennis was on the rise and i was
21:05
Track 2: thinking and i've been thinking about this for a long time is like the idea
21:07
Track 2: of like the olympics right uh i can't it was like 10 years ago where they were saying on average,
21:12
Track 2: it costs like $250,000 for somebody to become like an Olympian with the amount
21:17
Track 2: of training, the amount of time.
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Track 2: And I was like, the average like working class individual is not going to have
21:22
Track 2: that type of capital to invest in there.
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Track 2: So I was thinking like, God, there's so much lost talent in the working class
21:28
Track 2: because of our inability to like free ourselves from our change.
21:32
Track 2: Like we'll never actually know who is the fastest person on the planet because
21:36
Track 2: they weren't even ever given the chance.
21:38
Track 2: And I feel like Marty does a really good job because table tennis was kind of
21:41
Track 2: like the game of the working class that was coming up i think one of the videos
21:47
Track 2: i was watching on a breakdown was saying that um table tennis is like the second
21:50
Track 2: most played game in the world next to soccer.
21:53
Track 1: That doesn't surprise me i mean like they show like
21:56
Track 1: the the scenes where marty is at that ping pong club like
21:59
Track 1: in in new york city like was actually based on
22:02
Track 1: that that place really existed and they rebuilt it
22:05
Track 1: based on the blueprints of the building because
22:08
Track 1: it had been destroyed so it didn't exist anymore and they recreated it
22:11
Track 1: and so there were a lot of ping pong halls all across new york and i suspect
22:15
Track 1: in other countries and other places too because again you don't need very much
22:20
Track 1: you need a table and two paddles and a ball like it doesn't you could play outside
22:24
Track 1: you can play anywhere it's sort of it seems like a very working class yeah
22:29
Track 1: That like bowling, I think of like bowling and ping pong is like the working class sports.
22:34
Track 2: Yeah, I think the new and up and coming one is like pickleball.
22:37
Track 2: I don't know if that's how it is on the East Coast, on the West Coast.
22:41
Track 2: Pickleball is huge, but it's a really nice way of revitalizing like these tennis
22:46
Track 2: courts that have been absolutely obsolete.
22:48
Track 2: So now we're having pickleball, which is a much easier way of playing.
22:51
Track 2: And there's so many people out in the community talking to each other.
22:55
Track 2: They're making clubs. It's wonderful.
22:57
Track 2: So I feel like pickleball is the new table tennis.
23:00
Track 1: Yeah. But I don't know.
23:02
Track 2: That's a hot take.
23:03
Track 1: You're just standing on the court, right?
23:06
Track 2: You don't have to go. Like, yes, you have to move fast, but it's not nearly
23:09
Track 2: to like this skill and practice you need for tennis.
23:12
Track 1: You see them like running around. Like if you actually watch professional table
23:16
Track 1: tennis, you know, videos from now, they're like dripping in sweat. Sometimes.
23:20
Track 1: So it's funny. All of a sudden, I've been getting a lot of them on my Instagram
23:22
Track 1: algorithm because I've been looking at things about this movie.
23:25
Track 1: I'm like, okay, I guess I'm going to be in the ping pong, uh, sphere from now on.
23:30
Track 1: But like, so going back to the things that like people are talking about,
23:34
Track 1: I found an article, it's in the independent.
23:36
Track 1: It says how Timothy Chalamet and Marty Supreme is clapping back at the toxic men of the internet.
23:44
Track 1: And it goes into like some of the question I was saying before is like,
23:47
Track 1: you know, his body type sort of different than what we have.
23:50
Track 1: And in the article it, uh, I wouldn't find it cause it's, I just thought it was ridiculous. was.
23:56
Track 1: Where is it oh yeah so they they interview or like have
23:59
Track 1: some quotes from some professor at nyu who wrote
24:02
Track 1: a book on notes on being a man and he
24:05
Track 1: says that uh young men are inherently social creatures motivated
24:08
Track 1: by success money and sexual attraction all instincts he believes have been unfairly
24:13
Track 1: demonized and he's basically saying like men have you know um they saying that
24:21
Track 1: encouraging boys he could not
24:23
Track 1: even men to venture into the real world take risks have fun protect others,
24:26
Track 1: especially the less powerful and be proud of who they really are and that he
24:30
Track 1: says there's no such thing as toxic masculinity it's the emperor of all oxymorons
24:34
Track 1: and he goes on all this thing like if you say that you're actually just anti-men.
24:45
Track 2: I think this is evan's debut as a misandrist this
24:48
Track 2: is incoming hot off the press um that's
24:51
Track 2: fucking stupid i'm gonna be honest that is really stupid yeah like
24:54
Track 2: okay yeah no shit we know but it's like the
24:57
Track 2: chauvinism of like why you're doing these things it's not just doing them for
25:01
Track 2: the sake of doing them it's doing them because you're told to or like behave
25:04
Track 2: and only you have a certain scope of emotions obviously that's what it means
25:08
Track 2: whoever that was is being intentionally obtuse and i'll go meet them outside
25:13
Track 2: if they really want to talk i'll speak your language and.
25:16
Track 1: To be like oh like they they are motivated by success money
25:19
Track 1: and sexual attraction like that is literally because of the patriarchy and the
25:23
Track 1: fact that like you are you are encouraged by articles and books by this guy
25:30
Track 1: saying that you should do this and that's what we need to do so you should just
25:33
Track 1: do it he's essentially encouraging toxic masculinity rather than.
25:38
Track 2: Yeah because it's like what does success mean
25:41
Track 2: like well how what is that measured in what is
25:44
Track 2: the metric is it climbing the corporate ladder to
25:47
Track 2: become part of the oppressing class does that make you successful
25:50
Track 2: or is it being like a father and being
25:53
Track 2: sure that you're there like there's a lot of different ways you could measure
25:56
Track 2: success however i feel like he's playing into the more traditional round of
26:00
Track 2: just like you need to make a lot of money so that you can pay for everything
26:03
Track 2: and then you can have a stay-at-home wife who's going to be like your like servant
26:08
Track 2: that's like what it sounds like to me but.
26:11
Track 1: I don't really i don't understand is is the point of this article trying to
26:14
Track 1: say that that timothy chalamet is,
26:18
Track 1: clapping back at this i mean is it just simply because of
26:21
Track 1: like sort of what he looks like and he's like going for it i
26:24
Track 1: mean to me this is just saying sort of the
26:27
Track 1: the thing that we were both saying before we even recorded this
26:30
Track 1: was the film is going to be interpreted as like you have this is this is like
26:35
Track 1: what men should do and it's not toxic and it's just normal like maybe don't
26:38
Track 1: be as big of a piece of shit as him but you should still do it anyway and the
26:43
Track 1: message that people should get is actually this is very bad you should not be like marty in any way.
26:49
Track 2: I feel like people are gonna have a lot of takeaways that he um
26:52
Track 2: like marty's driven by a lot of conviction like
26:55
Track 2: he is dedicated to something and he's determined
26:58
Track 2: to he knows he's the best and i
27:01
Track 2: don't think there's anything inherently wrong with that like if you know you
27:04
Track 2: have a skill and you're honing in on that skill absolutely um
27:08
Track 2: like pursue it but like there
27:11
Track 2: there is cost like if it's sacrificing your relationship
27:14
Track 2: um with like your parents or the people in
27:17
Track 2: your community that are actually like helping you uplifting you
27:20
Track 2: like the way he's scamming his friend uh like
27:23
Track 2: the new ping pong balls and you can kind of see like how
27:26
Track 2: he talks to people like one of the opening scenes where
27:29
Track 2: he's like i you need to not wear a white shirt because i can't see
27:32
Track 2: it and it's like it sounds like a skill issue my friend
27:36
Track 2: and i feel like you could sub in like this because of
27:39
Track 2: the way that they talk about it um you could if marty
27:42
Track 2: supreme was set today it would be like some sort of like video gaming
27:45
Track 2: competition like stuff that like the general public doesn't really understand
27:49
Track 2: i think in the early 2000s it would have been like a wow thing like you could
27:52
Track 2: have definitely like substitute his character and his decisions and like had
27:56
Track 2: him do something that wasn't like part of the status quo but it was considered
27:59
Track 2: like competitive and i think it would fit and then it Like,
28:03
Track 2: all you have to do is recontextualize it, and then it just makes more sense.
28:06
Track 1: Do you know the movie The Wiz? Have you ever seen that?
28:09
Track 2: I don't think so.
28:10
Track 1: It's from the early...
28:13
Track 1: Maybe it's not the wizard maybe it's the wizard it's a video game movie from
28:17
Track 1: the early 90s with um god what is his name a fred savage and uh it's actually
28:24
Track 1: also um jenny uh fuck um jenny lewis is actually in it back when she was acting
28:30
Track 1: and it's like he goes on a like a,
28:33
Track 1: trek across the country to go to a video game nintendo competition and like
28:38
Track 1: that was sort of like it was basically an advertisement for nintendo if we're
28:41
Track 1: if we're being honest but Like, imagine if that were now, or like you were saying,
28:45
Track 1: a video game thing. Like, I think that would be pretty interesting.
28:48
Track 1: And, you know, a world that no one understands. Whereas, like,
28:52
Track 1: this too, no one understands the world of ping pong.
28:54
Track 1: You know, and, like, this kind of drew, I don't know, like, will ping pong be
28:59
Track 1: more popular now all of a sudden? I don't know.
29:02
Track 2: I do. I think it was a ploy. I think it's a ploy to get people to play ping
29:07
Track 2: pong, which I don't see anything wrong with. Like I have been itching to have
29:11
Track 2: a table tennis thing in like my garage. I think that'd be great.
29:14
Track 2: Or like to go to like the different community centers, if they start having
29:17
Track 2: table tennis again, I think that would be so fun.
29:20
Track 2: Cause I was too young when it was starting to get phased out.
29:23
Track 2: Like I remember my parents, friends having them in their garage,
29:25
Track 2: but like not understanding how to play it when you're like five years old.
29:30
Track 1: Yeah.
29:30
Track 2: It's hard. It's hard to pick up and understand. Um, so I think it would be fun and cool.
29:35
Track 2: I can imagine like supreme and these
29:38
Track 2: different like big brands like hopping on it because i think uh supreme did
29:42
Track 2: drop like ping pong balls or something of course yeah so there's gonna be like
29:45
Track 2: more name brand things yeah i'm sure that's the boo boo boo that's marty supreme
29:52
Track 2: x la boo boo um i think i don't know either the aesthetics of it are going to pick up or maybe,
29:58
Track 2: We might have some opening. I don't know. I would love to see what's going to
30:02
Track 2: happen in the immediate future, because that was another thing.
30:04
Track 2: Like, right after I got out, I was like, oh, my God, this is going to be a trend.
30:07
Track 1: Yeah the one well unrelated to that this is
30:10
Track 1: like the other thing that maybe we didn't talk about that i haven't seen talked about
30:12
Track 1: literally anywhere but we i can't not bring
30:15
Track 1: it up is sort of like the entire class dynamic
30:19
Track 1: of marty and his family living in
30:22
Track 1: like the lower east side and you know a fairly small apartment like
30:25
Track 1: you know they share one phone i mean granted it's the 1950s and
30:29
Track 1: then you have rockwell and then you also have rockwell's wife
30:32
Track 1: played by gwyneth paltrow who he has an affair with and is
30:35
Track 1: like obsessed with and like uses his you know checks
30:39
Track 1: into the you know the ritz carlton when he's in london to
30:42
Track 1: you know woo her and everything and then you know my joke
30:45
Track 1: in my letterbox review was like you shouldn't have sex in
30:48
Track 1: central park um that's just not a good thing to do and they do that and then
30:52
Track 1: you know you almost get arrested and like she has all this jewelry and it's
30:55
Track 1: very much i i get the sense too is part of his motivation is not just his interest
31:00
Track 1: in being the best because he believes in himself I think he also wants a better life,
31:07
Track 1: even though he treats his family like complete shit I think he does actually
31:11
Track 1: want them to have a better life and he wants to be the one that can provide it for them mm-hmm.
31:20
Track 2: There's a lot of crossovers between Gwyneth Paltrow's character and his,
31:23
Track 2: I noticed, because she was, like, this up-and-coming, like, super big star,
31:26
Track 2: and then she kind of got pregnant, fell off, and that's, like,
31:30
Track 2: a whole other commentary in itself, like, on, like, the, like,
31:32
Track 2: woman's condition, but hers is very,
31:35
Track 2: like, very, like, white feminist, like, sort of surface-level commentary on,
31:39
Track 2: like, her up-and-coming, like, in her fall, right?
31:43
Track 1: Yeah.
31:43
Track 2: That she can only land a role in
31:46
Track 2: a play that's funded by her husband and packed with seats
31:49
Track 2: that are paid for by her husband like all these
31:51
Track 2: random things and i think timothy chalamet like at first is like
31:54
Track 2: into it but then he's also like it's part of ego where he's
31:57
Track 2: like i think i can bag this lady like she's got
32:00
Track 2: that like i think i can do and he does um
32:03
Track 2: i will say though the worst thing every time
32:06
Track 2: i see gwyneth paltrow all i can think of is goop and like her my my candle that
32:11
Track 2: my vagina of smells like that's all i can think of when i see gwyneth paltrow
32:14
Track 2: um yeah and i don't necessarily think gwyneth paltrow was like she did a good
32:19
Track 2: i guess she did she played herself she's the same person like every role i've ever seen i'm not a fan.
32:24
Track 1: Of gwyneth paltrow so you're not offending me in any way and.
32:29
Track 2: I think my listeners would also.
32:30
Track 1: Agree probably yeah.
32:32
Track 2: I was going to apologize, but she, she's just weird.
32:36
Track 2: She's a weird person. I don't know. And her company is like a big old scam.
32:40
Track 2: So I was like, there's, that's the thing.
32:42
Track 2: It was like, there's, there's two for two of like shitty people you got in this movie.
32:45
Track 2: Tyler, the creator, he did a really good job.
32:49
Track 1: Yes. Yes. I mean, I will say that even like the Kevin O'Leary for not being
32:56
Track 1: an actor, really like he played his like cruel capitalist role pretty well.
33:01
Track 1: Uh everyone he's like this is just.
33:04
Track 2: Another tuesday yeah.
33:05
Track 1: Right exactly yeah he was just playing himself right just
33:08
Track 1: like a shitty you know shitty rich person i mean that's
33:11
Track 1: not really it's probably wasn't much uh he didn't have much range in his uh
33:16
Track 1: his acting what was i going to say about gwyneth paltrow and that too is yeah
33:20
Track 1: like it the yeah i think what's also the funniest aspect is that she the play
33:26
Track 1: that is a complete like they see her show her crying because the
33:29
Track 1: york times review assuming was just destroyed this you know then you wonder
33:34
Track 1: like was she actually ever a good actor you know when she was younger or is
33:38
Track 1: it simply just like she was a pretty face and then you could i don't know have
33:42
Track 1: a critique on you know the early hollywood you know the,
33:45
Track 1: the like 1940s hollywood and the people around them which you know you could we don't need to go i.
33:53
Track 2: Feel like they picked a lot of people that could be like self-insert because
33:55
Track 2: gwyneth paltrow she in like the early 2000s i remember seeing her in a bunch
33:59
Track 2: of like rom-com she was in like shallow howl um which is like a huge which that
34:04
Track 2: movie is it has not withstood the test of time because if you look at it it's it's not good.
34:11
Track 1: No at all plus jack black in there and what was the one that she was really
34:15
Track 1: that she like the night late 90s she was in that one uh was it sliding doors was that her,
34:22
Track 1: am i thinking of a.
34:23
Track 2: Different might have been i just remember shallow how like that was like every
34:27
Track 2: time i see her that's the movie that pops into my head for me i always think.
34:30
Track 1: Of talented mr ripley for some
34:32
Track 1: reason i love that movie too i think they came out around the same time.
34:38
Track 2: Who was the other oh the the japanese uh
34:41
Track 2: table tennis player um the actual guy
34:44
Track 2: is an actual tennis tape like table tennis player koto
34:48
Track 2: kawaguchi kawaguchi yeah he's
34:50
Track 2: actually deaf and he's actually a table tennis player which i
34:53
Track 2: think is so interesting he was inspired by obviously his
34:56
Track 2: character was inspired by um iroji sito i
35:00
Track 2: think that's how you say the original guy i didn't know that the actual
35:03
Track 2: guy that like played ping pong and i
35:05
Track 2: thought that was such an interesting little there's a lot of cameos robert
35:09
Track 2: pattinson has a cameo in here yeah there's a lot of really random cameos in
35:14
Track 2: this movie that i was there's just so much happening this whole movie was like
35:18
Track 2: bonkers bananas crazy the whole time and it's all about ping pong like i just
35:24
Track 2: can't get over this is a ping pong movie and timothy jala is exploding sorry.
35:28
Track 1: Timothy jala may apparently had been preparing for this role i think for like
35:32
Track 1: five years and he's been like he would take his ping pong table to like whenever
35:37
Track 1: he was doing other roles and other things and he had been like playing and practicing
35:41
Track 1: ping pong for years where i think the majority of the scenes is actually him playing i don't know.
35:48
Track 2: If it's all 100 him.
35:49
Track 1: I don't think it's 100 but i think a lot of the scenes where he's just you know
35:54
Track 1: rallying back and forth i think is is legit him i mean.
35:59
Track 2: That's pretty incredible he took it seriously which i think i can appreciate i don't know,
36:05
Track 2: That's really interesting. I think because this is like the only other ping
36:08
Track 2: pong movie I can remember like being memorable since like Forrest Gump.
36:15
Track 1: Yeah. Yeah, that one, not as good a movie.
36:22
Track 1: What was the other? Yeah, and he also performed the stunt where he gets his
36:26
Track 1: ass slapped by the ping pong paddle.
36:28
Track 1: That was actually Timothy Chalamet's butt. And they took like 45 takes apparently
36:33
Track 1: or something like that to do it.
36:35
Track 1: He's just getting whipped with a paddle over and over. I mean,
36:38
Track 1: I'm assuming not nearly as hard, and it was probably a fake paddle.
36:41
Track 1: But still, that was his butt.
36:44
Track 2: That's how it feels every day I have to go to work and sell my labor.
36:49
Track 2: That's such a good symbolic representation of what it's like to be exploited
36:54
Track 2: and just be so close to somebody.
36:56
Track 2: And it's like, what if all of the table tennis people just surrounded them?
37:01
Track 2: We're like, you're going to make this happen.
37:03
Track 2: I don't know. That's a very bad allegory.
37:05
Track 1: Well, no, but it actually makes it even better allegory because he thinks that
37:09
Track 1: by doing that, by sinking to it and getting his ass slapped,
37:13
Track 1: that he's going to be able to go do the promo, get paid, be in the tournament.
37:16
Track 1: But he knows full well, not Marty, the, what's his name?
37:24
Track 1: Rockwell knows he's not going to be in the tournament. He's just exploiting him again.
37:28
Track 1: So he's exploiting him to get what he wants, but also like double exploiting him.
37:34
Track 1: He's like buying him up giving a pizza party so that he'll come with him on
37:37
Track 1: his trip you know and then of course embarrasses him by then you know forcing
37:42
Track 1: that then i mean were you watching that last scene being like i really hope
37:46
Track 1: he wins i mean it's hard it was hard not to being like i hope he can he beats a japanese player.
37:51
Track 2: I don't know because there's like
37:53
Track 2: something with like because you are like forced to follow this unlikable like
37:58
Track 2: unreliable individual but then you just have like this deaf japanese character
38:03
Track 2: who just like the crowd loves him i know the crowd loves him so much they're
38:07
Track 2: so happy he has cheerleaders and it's so sweet and kind the crowd.
38:11
Track 1: Is so mad when he loses like they're devastated.
38:14
Track 2: Yeah like we just lost world war ii again you like
38:18
Track 2: hate to see it happen but like you're like kind of forced and i thought that
38:21
Track 2: was a really interesting like that's what i measure art by like it's success
38:25
Track 2: is like why am i feeling something for somebody that I hate where I like you
38:30
Track 2: want to see their success but I also want to see your downfall and I thought
38:33
Track 2: that was a very um it was written very well it was filmed very well in a way that like,
38:38
Track 2: it's hard to write a bad character like this where,
38:42
Track 2: they're so engaging i think do i sound like a film bro.
38:45
Track 1: No no no but it's.
38:47
Track 2: 24 like the new like i love tarantino is that like what a toilet like i just
38:51
Track 2: love a 24 because of all the philosophical themes and i'm thinking critically
38:56
Track 2: so i feel what i'm talking i was like no you guys just don't get it.
38:59
Track 1: Um but.
39:00
Track 2: You know like it's pretty it's nuanced it's it's such a nice breath of fresh
39:04
Track 2: air from like some movies that i see that come out and i don't like going to
39:08
Track 2: the movies because some of them are just shit they're just shit movies and they're
39:11
Track 2: just i can tell they just want to make money.
39:13
Track 1: Yeah this movie
39:16
Track 1: i mean i know that he wanted to make this movie for a long time
39:19
Track 1: and the other crazy thing that maybe this maybe i don't have that
39:21
Track 1: many more things but one thing that's interesting is that safty apparently when
39:24
Track 1: he was making uncut gems it like took him
39:27
Track 1: many years to get it made and produce it and he
39:30
Track 1: was like saying how he sort of was like missing moments of
39:33
Track 1: his life spending and all that and he sort of saw the
39:36
Track 1: marty supreme character as like that encapsulation of
39:39
Track 1: someone who like doesn't stop to actually do anything for
39:42
Track 1: themselves and other people around them and apparently after uncut gems he then
39:46
Track 1: got married really quick at like a courthouse had a bunch of like you know kids
39:49
Track 1: soon after and like wanted to actually feel what life was like and i feel like
39:54
Track 1: in very small way it seemed like the character was very mildly like this,
40:02
Track 1: autobiographical piece of Josh Safdie.
40:04
Track 1: He didn't say it exactly in that way, but that's just my opinion based on what he was saying.
40:09
Track 2: He must have. He must have been looking into like Martin Reisman and his history
40:14
Track 2: as a table tennis player and seeing some overlap between himself.
40:17
Track 2: And he's like, no, this is, he's just like me for real and decided that,
40:23
Track 2: that he was going to make it like there's no other way if you're listening can
40:27
Track 2: you please email at left of the projector um please let us know all of the details thank you well.
40:34
Track 1: He his wife gave him a the
40:37
Track 1: the um the marty riseman autobiography in 2018 just like hey i think you might
40:43
Track 1: like this book and then like he talked to timothy chalamet soon after and they
40:47
Track 1: became friends and he's like i think you'd be perfect for this movie and then
40:50
Track 1: seven years later you know here we are so i feel like it's one of those stories like give.
40:54
Track 2: Me five years to prepare let me learn how to play table tennis first.
40:57
Track 1: Yeah he's like i'm literally going to become the greatest player in the
41:00
Track 1: country in the world and then i'll be in the movie as you
41:03
Track 1: know uh aside i'll quit acting and be just a ping pong
41:06
Track 1: player i don't know i i i gave this movie four and a half out of five stars
41:10
Track 1: i think it's regardless of sort of maybe the problematic nature of the character
41:15
Track 1: and all that i mean it's just a great movie the soundtrack is amazing which
41:18
Track 1: i think you said at the beginning it's just good yeah.
41:23
Track 2: We gave it the same rating which is i didn't know i thought it was going to
41:27
Track 2: be an overhype but i think it's an amply hyped movie and i think it's going
41:32
Track 2: to be like one of those like titles i can't wait until there's like a criterion
41:34
Track 2: collection for this whenever it comes out.
41:37
Track 1: There i'm sure there will be i mean it's one of those things where i'm usually
41:41
Track 1: like an overrater i usually rate things higher than other people would be like
41:45
Track 1: yeah it was pretty good i'm like i don't know i walked out of the movie and
41:47
Track 1: i really liked it And I would see it again, you know, in a few months.
41:51
Track 1: And to me, that usually means I liked it and it was a good movie. So I don't care.
41:55
Track 1: Four and a half stars, you know, would recommend to anyone.
42:00
Track 1: And I would recommend people stop, if there are any toxic men listening to the
42:05
Track 1: podcast, you know, stop doing that.
42:07
Track 1: And read Women Race in Class by...
42:12
Track 1: Um jesus christ angela davis angela davis it's literally sitting across from me by bell.
42:18
Track 2: Hooks you there's a lot of books you can read that you can think you should
42:23
Track 2: think about like why you do the things you do and why you look up to things
42:26
Track 2: because i'm not saying masculinity is bad masculinity is not bad but there is
42:32
Track 2: a toxic way when you're forcing people to behave a certain way right you know.
42:36
Track 1: Yeah i.
42:37
Track 2: Like you i like fight club i like berserk i like gundams.
42:41
Track 1: I'm just you don't have to be you don't have to be hold.
42:46
Track 2: On what else do i know uh no that's it that's off the top of my head.
42:50
Track 1: Yeah like you just don't have to be a dick about it yeah
42:54
Track 1: or dick to other people i guess i don't know yeah i mean again i think uh i
43:00
Track 1: don't know now i know we did this this is like 40 minutes i mean i i usually
43:03
Track 1: could feel like at some point in the future doing a further like i feel like
43:08
Track 1: we covered a lot of things but i feel like i could have gone deeper on some
43:11
Track 1: of these i don't know how you thought but this.
43:13
Track 2: Is very like this is like a first impressions type first reactions because i
43:18
Track 2: haven't had really anyone to talk about this with either aside from like my
43:22
Track 2: partner when we went and saw it he also very much enjoyed it so.
43:25
Track 1: I need to watch it again too like at home where i could actually sort of take
43:28
Track 1: i could pause it and like you know re-watch scenes it's harder it's harder when
43:32
Track 1: you just like see in the theater and you're just in that experience but um i
43:37
Track 1: got nothing left you got anything left uh.
43:40
Track 2: That's about it i feel like we touched on i mean this film does a really good job of exemplifying,
43:45
Track 2: individualism uh patriarchy capitalism and it's
43:48
Track 2: kind of all encapsulated in a very interesting historical point
43:52
Track 2: um that has had a lot of troubling
43:55
Track 2: effects to this day um and
43:58
Track 2: i think it's interesting that this was all in a ping
44:01
Track 2: pong movie and i know i mean how do
44:04
Track 2: i sell anyone on this it's like when i tell people to read
44:07
Track 2: the hot dog book i'm like how do i sell somebody on this this
44:10
Track 2: book called raw dog like how do you how do you convince somebody
44:13
Track 2: to watch this and then like have a conversation about it i
44:16
Track 2: think this film goes to show that people want more from cinema the way that
44:20
Track 2: they are like reviewing it and engaging with it i think it's showing i hope
44:24
Track 2: more movies start coming out that are like this because i just think this was
44:27
Track 2: very well thought out and well-intentioned and i would much rather have less
44:31
Track 2: movies come out every year if they were more intentional in this way yeah.
44:35
Track 1: And i mean i mean there are a lot of a24 movies that are sort of like,
44:38
Track 1: you know, prestige-y, but I don't think all of them are all that good or as good as this.
44:43
Track 1: Sometimes I think they're, you know, trying to be too much.
44:48
Track 2: A little pretentious.
44:48
Track 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, you know, and I don't think this is coming from that perspective at all.
44:54
Track 1: And actually, I want to go read The Money Player Memoir by Marty Rison because...
44:59
Track 1: You know why not maybe i'll add that to my.
45:01
Track 2: If there's um there is a fictional book that i do think that if you like this
45:05
Track 2: movie you might like and it's called actually i have a nice copy of it it's
45:10
Track 2: called either the royal game or chess by steven spegg and it's a it's a chess
45:14
Track 2: book it's very short um i think you would like it if you like this movie oh
45:19
Track 2: you i think you said in your review.
45:21
Track 1: Like this is like the uh incel version of queen's gambit.
45:24
Track 2: Yeah literally like queen's gambit if like it was like like a boy yeah i love
45:32
Track 2: queen's gambit though so but i haven't read the book i think it's a book i haven't read it no.
45:36
Track 1: Well yeah i'll uh put the the book down there but mariah thank you uh for uh
45:42
Track 1: coming on and uh doing the marty supreme.
45:46
Track 2: Yes thanks for having me on i I love talking about boy movies. This is great.
45:55
Track 2: It's like a fun little flex that we can do. This is like our thing,
45:58
Track 2: Evan, we have going for us. And it's a good thing.
46:01
Track 1: Yeah, are there any more toxic masculine movie? We never did Joker Part 2,
46:04
Track 1: which I don't know. I saw it and I hated it, so I don't know.
46:08
Track 2: I still haven't seen it. I know it's a musical. Yes, when they come around, you know, I'll be here.
46:14
Track 1: All right. Well, you've been listening to Left Up Ejector, and we'll catch you next time.