Latest / Booked On Rock with Eric Senich / Lord Of Keys: Deep Purple's Jon Lord [Episode 350]

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Lord Of Keys: Deep Purple's Jon Lord [Episode 350] · Booked On Rock with Eric Senich

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: A look inside the musical world of the man who
• 0:02
  Speaker 1: could flawlessly blend mind melting rock with soul, blues, pop,
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: R and B, and classical. It's the story of legendary
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: Deep Purple keyboardist John Lord, with author Oves Knacvie.
• 0:14
  Speaker 2: Next, we're totally rock and roll. I mean, I'll leave
• 0:19
  Speaker 2: you you're.
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: Reading Little Hands, since it's time to rock and roll,
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: roll up.
• 0:24
  Speaker 2: I totally booked. See are you a Purple fan?
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: Well, yeah, I'm a fan of classic rock so many bands,
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: so you could certainly put Deep Purple in there. I mean, I,
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: by no means the level of a fan that you are.
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: For me, I would My mine is Van Halen. I
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: could tell you pretty much anything and everything about Van Halen.
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: So but my god, yeah, I mean I have grown
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: up on classic rock, was a classic rock disc jockey,
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: and this music is just a part of my life forever.
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: But but with Deep Purple, I know all the hits,
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: and I know some of the deep tracks, and you know,
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: I remember in high school my brother had the Comeback
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: album in the eighties, Yeah, and just hearing the songs
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: on the radio, and then recently just you know, reading
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: through the chapters setting up questions. I went to Spotify
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: and just hit play on, you know, just like a
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: random this is Deep Purple Spotify playlist. You know, the
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: Burn album is fascinating because you would think, you know,
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: after losing their very well known lead singer, that an
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: album wouldn't do well. But Burn did so well, and
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: it's it's such a great album, but lazy. I love
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: Stormbringer mistreated a lot of those songs off of Burn.
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: I'm really digging. And I was in radio in ninety
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: six and I did play Ted the Mechanic. I remember
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: playing that when that was a single. Yeah.
• 1:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah, So no, Well that's interesting Eric in itself, because
• 2:04
  Speaker 2: you know, I was having this chat the other day
• 2:07
  Speaker 2: with Paul Man, who conducted and supported John a lot
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: in the classical phase of his career, often about ninety
• 2:16
  Speaker 2: eight when he did the Concerto concert again at the
• 2:19
  Speaker 2: Royal Albert Hall in nineteen ninety nine, thirty years later,
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: and we were talking about, you know, the perception of Zeppelin,
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: the perception of Purple, and in fact, because Paul's a
• 2:32
  Speaker 2: great film buff as well, we were talking about films
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: and how sometimes you get prejudiced as a director because
• 2:40
  Speaker 2: you're too eclectic. In other words, if you just stick
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: in your lane and you just do a certain kind
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: of film, you'll generally get way more recognition in a
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: system like Hollywood than you will if every film is
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: so unpredictable the producers don't know what you're going to
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: do next, or not what you do. And in a sense,
• 3:03
  Speaker 2: you know, if you're a Michael Bay you know, or
• 3:08
  Speaker 2: that type of director, you'll get more recognition than you
• 3:13
  Speaker 2: will if you're an Able Ferrara, you know, et cetera.
• 3:17
  Speaker 2: So in a sense, Deep Purple, in my opinion, suffer
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: from that a bit as well, because no disrespect to Zeppelin,
• 3:25
  Speaker 2: but it was a very powerful template within which there
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: was a lot of range. I'm not saying they stayed
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: in a single link, because they could do folk music
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: and they could do heavy rock, and they could do
• 3:35
  Speaker 2: more bluesy stuff. But it was within a broad framework
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: of a certain Zeppelin style. And then you look at
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: Purple and you go into Stormbringer and come taste the band,
• 3:46
  Speaker 2: and you get into hold On or this time around,
• 3:51
  Speaker 2: or you know, some of the funkiest stuff on storm
• 3:53
  Speaker 2: ring On, Come taste the band, Hyde will shoot or
• 3:57
  Speaker 2: you keep on moving and it's miles away from you know,
• 4:01
  Speaker 2: the mark to machine Head, Highway Star, Pictures of Home,
• 4:09
  Speaker 2: Lazy to a degree, maybe I'm a Leo Smoke on
• 4:14
  Speaker 2: the water, you know, very rift based stuff. So in
• 4:17
  Speaker 2: a funny way, without starting on a downer, I mean,
• 4:21
  Speaker 2: I think in a sense the band always suffered a
• 4:23
  Speaker 2: bit from a change of lineup fairly regularly in various periods,
• 4:30
  Speaker 2: and then an enormous musical skill, which meant they could
• 4:33
  Speaker 2: play anything. And the trouble with playing anything is, as
• 4:37
  Speaker 2: I described it, it's a bit like being able to
• 4:38
  Speaker 2: direct anything. You know, you don't get as recognized for
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  Speaker 2: it by studios and by producers as you would by
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: doing one thing. So it's interesting what you say, because
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: when you take Burn, there's stuff in there that kind
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: of harks back to a degree to Mark two. But
• 4:55
  Speaker 2: it's a radical departure, and then Storm Bringers a departure
• 4:58
  Speaker 2: from that, and then Come Days the band Tommy Bodin
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: comes in is a departure from that, and guys like
• 5:04
  Speaker 2: John Lord and Ian Pace could completely keep up. One
• 5:08
  Speaker 2: of the things that Tommy Boden remarked on when he
• 5:09
  Speaker 2: joined in seventy five to do Come taste the band
• 5:14
  Speaker 2: was he marveled at, you know, thinking they were a
• 5:16
  Speaker 2: smoke on the Water band, because he didn't really know
• 5:18
  Speaker 2: their repertoire, being in a recording, you know, rehearsal room
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  Speaker 2: with them at Warners in La and then at another
• 5:28
  Speaker 2: studio in La, and he said, I just couldn't believe.
• 5:31
  Speaker 2: I mean, John Lord, he knew every song in the book.
• 5:34
  Speaker 2: In Tommy's own words, I could play anything and he
• 5:36
  Speaker 2: could just play it back because he just knew the
• 5:38
  Speaker 2: whole musical repertoire of the twentieth century to a large extent,
• 5:42
  Speaker 2: certainly on the popular side from the twenties and thirties onwards,
• 5:45
  Speaker 2: you know, Gershwin and god knows what else. So you know,
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: when you've got that big a musical repertoire, it means
• 5:51
  Speaker 2: that you get bored of just doing one thing and
• 5:54
  Speaker 2: then you become incredibly eclectic. And therein lies you're challenge,
• 6:00
  Speaker 2: which is telling record labels we're just going to do
• 6:04
  Speaker 2: it whatever we choose to on the next album. And
• 6:07
  Speaker 2: if you want to smoke on the water, you know
• 6:09
  Speaker 2: we're probably not going to be able to do that.
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: I should introduce you. We are having a great discussion.
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: Right off the bat here we were talking with Oves Natvi,
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: who's the author of John Lord before we forget a
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: work in eight movements. So we want to welcome everybody
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: back to Books on Rock the podcast for those about
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: to read and rock and what to read. This book
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  Speaker 1: is Oves. You put a lot of work into this. Now,
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: John Lord was a deeply private man and this book
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: does respect that privacy. This is more of an exploration
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: of his music. Tell the listeners and the viewers what
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: this book is about.
• 6:41
  Speaker 2: That was really great, Eric, and I really appreciate being
• 6:44
  Speaker 2: on the show and you've instantly captured exactly what I
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: tried to achieve, which is appreciated as well. You know,
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: it's interesting because like many like you, I mean, you know,
• 6:55
  Speaker 2: grew up as a rock fan in the eighties as well,
• 7:00
  Speaker 2: predominantly actually, and went to see bands like White Snake
• 7:05
  Speaker 2: at a venue called Hammersmith Odian in London which is
• 7:07
  Speaker 2: now called the Hammersmith Apolow I think, and you know,
• 7:10
  Speaker 2: these the Purple off Shoot bands were big in Britain
• 7:14
  Speaker 2: late seventies early mid eighties. You had two kind of
• 7:17
  Speaker 2: heavy rock strains. You had the Purple off Shoots and
• 7:21
  Speaker 2: the seventies bands who stayed quite big, the Purple off
• 7:26
  Speaker 2: shoots being White Snake, Gillan Rainbow primarily, and you had
• 7:31
  Speaker 2: bands like Black Sabbath that stayed big, and Zeppelin obviously
• 7:35
  Speaker 2: broke up after John Bonham died, but you know when
• 7:37
  Speaker 2: I was at school there were still a big band
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: and then you had obviously a lot of prog bands
• 7:41
  Speaker 2: who became much poppier but stayed really big and popular
• 7:44
  Speaker 2: at Genesis and yes obviously with nine oh one two five,
• 7:48
  Speaker 2: and then you had the new wave of British heavy metal,
• 7:50
  Speaker 2: and you had the emerging bands like Iron Maiden and
• 7:54
  Speaker 2: those kinds of guys, Tigers of Pantang and a lot
• 7:58
  Speaker 2: of great players emerged from that era. John's like some
• 8:00
  Speaker 2: people like that, So you know, I was a big
• 8:03
  Speaker 2: heavy rock fan, and obviously that one of the dominant
• 8:06
  Speaker 2: names in that period was ac DC as well, and
• 8:08
  Speaker 2: then obviously later on the bands like Van Halen, so
• 8:12
  Speaker 2: it was a pretty British kind of eclectic mix, but
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  Speaker 2: quite British oriented, and I still do remember it being
• 8:19
  Speaker 2: primarily British bands apart from ac DC. And then what
• 8:24
  Speaker 2: happened was, you know, I became a kind of a
• 8:26
  Speaker 2: Lord fan alongside being you know, a White Snake fan.
• 8:31
  Speaker 2: And I think what happens with a lot of people,
• 8:34
  Speaker 2: which is one of the great legacies of these kinds
• 8:36
  Speaker 2: of guys, is you listen to their music, and you
• 8:40
  Speaker 2: read about them, and you see interviews. Obviously at that
• 8:43
  Speaker 2: time there was no Internet. You just read magazine interviews
• 8:46
  Speaker 2: and kerrang and sounds and magazines and newspapers like that,
• 8:50
  Speaker 2: and you you read John Lord talking about his influences,
• 8:53
  Speaker 2: and you ended up, in my case, exploring classical more
• 8:57
  Speaker 2: than I would have done just by hearing him talk
• 9:00
  Speaker 2: about classical. And he did his solo album called Before
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: I Forget An eighty two, and there are loads of illusions,
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  Speaker 2: and he drew a lot of influences from classical music,
• 9:08
  Speaker 2: even in his chord structures and his harmonies and his melodies.
• 9:11
  Speaker 2: So got interested in classical retrospectively again after school because
• 9:15
  Speaker 2: of that, and then got interested in people like Keith
• 9:18
  Speaker 2: Emerson as well, because you know, these guys always respected
• 9:23
  Speaker 2: each other, Between Emerson and Weightman and John Lord, I mean,
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  Speaker 2: there was a huge amount of mutual regard. So got
• 9:30
  Speaker 2: into a bit of progue as a result of that,
• 9:31
  Speaker 2: but stayed interested in John Lord as a solo musician,
• 9:35
  Speaker 2: and then in the nineties he did a solo album
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  Speaker 2: called Pictured Within in nineteen ninety eight, and then embarked
• 9:42
  Speaker 2: on his proper solo career in two thousand and two. So,
• 9:46
  Speaker 2: in addition to all these bands and getting deeper into
• 9:48
  Speaker 2: Purple as a result of being into White Snake and Rainbow,
• 9:52
  Speaker 2: I kind of started to really dig into John Lord.
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  Speaker 2: And I think the important thing to recognize was, you know,
• 9:59
  Speaker 2: he he had an on stage charisma. He had a
• 10:02
  Speaker 2: very kind of people describe it as aristocratic, which is fine,
• 10:08
  Speaker 2: but I think he had a very measured, gentlemanly, collegiate,
• 10:14
  Speaker 2: team oriented, musically eclectic view of the world. His philosophy
• 10:19
  Speaker 2: was always, there's only good music and the other stuff.
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  Speaker 2: There's no such thing as being stuck in a particular genre.
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: So he reinforced me and many other people, and he
• 10:28
  Speaker 2: did it regularly in interviews and talked about how between
• 10:32
  Speaker 2: classical music and early rock and roll Jerry Lee Lewis
• 10:35
  Speaker 2: and Little Richard and people like that, and how R
• 10:38
  Speaker 2: and B and blues in the sixties influenced his musical outlook.
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: And so he kind of talked very intelligently I felt
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: at the time about music, about the need to be
• 10:51
  Speaker 2: open minded, the need to really be a theoretical player
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: and an educated player as well as a instinctive players.
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: So you know, I think he was very much of
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: the school that musical theory, composition, being able to play properly, practicing,
• 11:08
  Speaker 2: these were all virtues of a good player and a
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: good musician, as well as the improvisational skill in addition
• 11:14
  Speaker 2: to the study. So what differentiated him, I think in
• 11:16
  Speaker 2: many ways, very early on for me from many of
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: the other prog players was if you listen to a
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: purple record, a live record, you know, made in Japan,
• 11:27
  Speaker 2: made in Europe, live in London, what have you? Every
• 11:31
  Speaker 2: solo is completely different. Richie never plays the same thing twice.
• 11:34
  Speaker 2: John Lord never played the same thing twice ever in
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: a highway style solo which I might have heard twenty
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: different versions of live number one, it's never the same
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: thing as on machine Head and number two. Every solo
• 11:47
  Speaker 2: is always completely different. So he had that jazz musician's
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: oriented approach, which was don't play it twice when you
• 11:56
  Speaker 2: can improvise and go anywhere. The band gave him the freedom.
• 11:59
  Speaker 2: Black Or certainly subscribe to the same approach from a
• 12:03
  Speaker 2: slightly different perspective. I think John did it because he
• 12:06
  Speaker 2: was more of a jazz oriented player. Richie did it
• 12:08
  Speaker 2: because he got bored easily and just didn't want to
• 12:11
  Speaker 2: do the same thing twice. But between the two of them,
• 12:14
  Speaker 2: they ended up forming this incredibly powerful duo which I
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: think when you look at heavy rock and you look
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: at Progue, there's nothing like it because you've got Steve
• 12:23
  Speaker 2: Howe and Rick Weightman that they very deliberately didn't build
• 12:27
  Speaker 2: their relationship on improvisational skill. They built it on, if
• 12:31
  Speaker 2: I'm be unfair, perhaps playing what's on the record and
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: being quite individual players. And Zeppelin didn't have that dynamic,
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: nor did sabbath An e LP didn't really either because
• 12:41
  Speaker 2: it was a very keyboard oriented band.
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: No, you can hear them playing off of each other.
• 12:47
  Speaker 2: For each other, and you know in a band, of course,
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: you'll get Eddie playing off Alex for sure, which Alex
• 12:52
  Speaker 2: talks about all the time that you know, if Eddie
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: had a preference of where to turn on the stage,
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: he'd be riffing off Alex as oppose the ripping off
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: necessarily anyone else.
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and in studio. The interplay between the two, especially
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: during Eddie solo, is what you hear Alex doing, and
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: that's what I'm hearing with.
• 13:10
  Speaker 2: The purple absolutely, And you know, Eddie and Alex had
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: that biological chemistry of being related. And if you know
• 13:17
  Speaker 2: the history better than me, I'm sure, but you know,
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: Alex starts off as a piano player, Eddie starts off
• 13:21
  Speaker 2: as a right, I'm sorry, Eddie started with as a
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: piano player.
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: And Alex on guitar, on.
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: Guitar, so they like switch accidentally through a competition where Alex,
• 13:32
  Speaker 2: I think, ends up playing the drums and Eddie ends
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: up playing the guitar. I find that remarkable because imagine
• 13:39
  Speaker 2: your second instrument, you become a genius at it. It
• 13:42
  Speaker 2: shows you how musical you are. And Alex is a
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: remarkable drummer, So you're completely correct. You know that interplay
• 13:48
  Speaker 2: between John and Ritchie is almost like a sibling rivalry
• 13:51
  Speaker 2: thing that's kind of similar, but a little bit edgier,
• 13:55
  Speaker 2: because Richie would deliberately try and throw you know, John
• 13:59
  Speaker 2: off in terms of playing Demi semi quavers so fast
• 14:03
  Speaker 2: in Highway Star just to irritate John because he knew
• 14:07
  Speaker 2: I can do it faster on a guitar than a
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: keyboard player can do it, and he would deliberately do
• 14:11
  Speaker 2: things like that. But it created this collaboration and tension
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: that became a really powerful creative tension because they were
• 14:19
  Speaker 2: both trying to almost throw each other off a bit.
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: But it resulted in solo you know, solo pieces in
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: strange kind of women or in Speed King or in
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: Highway Star that become really powerful features for audiences.
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: How was he with the transition then to Steve morson guitar?
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: What was that chemistry like that because they worked together
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: a long time.
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean he loved Steve. I mean from what
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: I get, and I say that with the authority of
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: you know, talking to Paul Man and people like that
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: who knew John and spoke to him freely. And obviously
• 14:55
  Speaker 2: don't forget when Paul did the concerto in ninety nine
• 14:58
  Speaker 2: conducted it. It was Steve how I'm sorry, Steve Moose
• 15:01
  Speaker 2: who did the guitar parts at the Royal Albert and
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: Steve Moos plays on the concerto recording in twenty twelve.
• 15:09
  Speaker 2: Among the three guitarists, Joe Bonamassa, Daryl visselev and Steve
• 15:14
  Speaker 2: Moore plays plays the third movement, So he loves Steve.
• 15:18
  Speaker 2: I mean, he always spoke glowingly of Steve and said
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: that because you know, obviously Steve's technical facility is incredible.
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: His ability to create melody, I feel is really really powerful,
• 15:30
  Speaker 2: and even today. I mean, if you listen to a
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: Steve Moore's interview from a couple of weeks ago with
• 15:36
  Speaker 2: regards to his new album, you know, he talks about
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: John Lord more than anyone else in the band because
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: he found a musical chemistry with John and John Lord
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: found a really great musical partner as well, who had,
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: don't forget, a really strong academic theoretical background in music
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: as well, having been to the University of Southern Florida
• 15:56
  Speaker 2: and being at college with Jaco Pistorius and and and
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: Patmasini and people like that, you know, incredible incredible schooling.
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: What is behind the book title Before We Forget a
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: work in eight movements.
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he did a solo album in eighty two called
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: Before I Forget, and the idea behind his title was,
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: let me put this down on record, before I forget
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: these musical ideas, And my perspective was let's write down
• 16:30
  Speaker 2: things about John Lord before we forget about John Lord,
• 16:33
  Speaker 2: because you know, guys like us will remember for as
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: long as we can. But you know, new musical audiences,
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: people now in their teenage years or in their twenties,
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: you know, they might be into purple. They hear John Airy,
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: they hear John Lord on record. So his biggest legacy
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: is the recordings. What I do or other people do
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: is marginal relative to listening to made in Japan. But
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: I wanted to really capture as many musical observations about
• 17:04
  Speaker 2: him as I could before we all move on musically
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: and he gets forgotten. I mean, the reality is if
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: you take musicians born in the nineteen forties, most of
• 17:15
  Speaker 2: them now entering their late seventies, early to mid eighties,
• 17:21
  Speaker 2: and they are disappearing sadly. You know, guys are hitting
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: eighty two, eighty three, is remarkable that they are still around,
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: many of them still touring, which is equally remarkable, but
• 17:31
  Speaker 2: there's going to be a point, you know, which is
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: a sad day where they're going to disappear because not
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: everyone's going to hit eighty five and ninety. So I
• 17:39
  Speaker 2: figured it's an ideal time for fans in their forties
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: and fifties and so forth, to kind of have a
• 17:45
  Speaker 2: documented record of his music, his sound and his instrumentation.
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: So that was really the idea to take the title
• 17:53
  Speaker 2: before I forget and create the relevance for today, which is,
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: let's do something before we forget.
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: And is there a work in eight more moments?
• 18:00
  Speaker 2: Is that?
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: Because he was part of the eight different mark eras
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: of Deeperess.
• 18:06
  Speaker 2: Interesting, that's an interesting because there's nine.
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: There's nine altogether now right, there's a new ninety.
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: But what happened was I wrote the chapters, which you know,
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: began to unfold by themselves. I probably started out started off,
• 18:21
  Speaker 2: I think, with about five or six kind of chapter areas,
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: and then as you write stuff, you know, it evolves
• 18:29
  Speaker 2: into new areas and into an exploration of his legacy
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: and so on, and so I landed up with eight chapters,
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: and I figured, you know, this a bit of symmetry there,
• 18:41
  Speaker 2: and why don't call the eight chapters eight movements? And
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: so the idea was to make it a bit more
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: musical than just a book about it, which George happened
• 18:51
  Speaker 2: to have eight chapters, and don't forget, sorry, the other
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: key point was he passed away at seventy one, which
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: is his eighth decade, so between being an eight decade
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: when he passed away in between a book landing up
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: at eight chapters. I thought the resonance of eight movements
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: would be quite powerful musically.
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: That picture, for those who were watching this interview, a
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: great photo of him behind you there, black and white
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: shot at John exactly. Yeah, where is this from?
• 19:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah? He did a photo shoot with a photographer, Martin Goddard,
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: who was hired by EMI to do the pictures from
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: the Before I Forget album in eighty two, so he
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: was on AMI and Martin went to his house which
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: is called Burntwood in Goring on Thames in Oxfordshire, and
• 19:34
  Speaker 2: Martin spent some time with him and did the portrait
• 19:36
  Speaker 2: photography on the cover of the book, and also did
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: a whole bunch of stuff of him in the garden
• 19:42
  Speaker 2: and in the house and the piano he's playing there
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: which features in the book was a piano he acquired
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: in the early seventies from Shirley Bassi, the singer. So
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: Shirley Bassie had a Chalon piano which he'd had painted
• 19:56
  Speaker 2: with light colors and flowers, apparently to match the daycore
• 20:01
  Speaker 2: of the room the piano was in. So John acquired
• 20:03
  Speaker 2: this from Shirley Bassi, and he always said it was
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: a nice ornament. He used it for practice because he
• 20:09
  Speaker 2: said it was quite hard to play and was probably
• 20:11
  Speaker 2: not the perfect piano because he later had piano is
• 20:14
  Speaker 2: like an arid piano as well as a Grotrian Steinweg,
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: which is a German piano in Steinbeg, as you know,
• 20:21
  Speaker 2: is the original name of Steinway. When he moved to America,
• 20:25
  Speaker 2: the American americanized his name to Steinway, but his birth
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: name was Steinberg, so Grotrian Steinweg is the German company
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: created it by Steinway, and he went to Americans created
• 20:36
  Speaker 2: the Steinway Piano company. So you know, Lord had these
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: great pianos. But the challenge that is photographed is the
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: one that Martin bought our photographed in age two, and
• 20:45
  Speaker 2: Martin's still around and we managed to secure rights to
• 20:48
  Speaker 2: use the picture on the cover of the book directly
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: from Martin.
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: You set out to answer the question how could a
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: kid growing up in austin your nineteen fifties Britain become
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: so adept at so many forms of music. He could
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: play jazz, blues, R and B, soul, pop and rock.
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: He could compose orchestral music as well. Take us back
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: to the beginning, Where and when was John born and
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: what were his early years like?
• 21:12
  Speaker 2: So he was born in a city in England called Leicester,
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: close ish to the Midlands and thereabouts, but not too
• 21:22
  Speaker 2: far from London. England's a pretty small country, so you know,
• 21:24
  Speaker 2: one hundred hundred and fifty miles is a big journey,
• 21:27
  Speaker 2: but in America, of course that's nothing. But that gets
• 21:29
  Speaker 2: you literally from London to places like Lester and Birmingham
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: and so on. So he grew up in this town, Leicester.
• 21:36
  Speaker 2: His family originated from around the area, from Buckinghamshire and
• 21:39
  Speaker 2: from Leicester. He was born in nineteen forty one in June,
• 21:43
  Speaker 2: and his parents were both I think quite music he oriented.
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: His father played saxophone. He was an alto sax player
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: in the local fire brigade band during the Second World War,
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: becuse obviously you had troops who went and fought in
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: different places in Europe and so forth, and you had
• 22:06
  Speaker 2: other people who stayed behind but were intrinsic to the
• 22:09
  Speaker 2: war effort. In terms of ambulance services and fire brigades
• 22:14
  Speaker 2: and so on. So John's dad, Reginald, was part of that,
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: and there were very various other people. Frederic Auld was
• 22:22
  Speaker 2: a piano teacher in Leicester, and preceding him there was
• 22:27
  Speaker 2: another piano teacher called Philip Lank, who John was with
• 22:30
  Speaker 2: for a very brief period when he was about six
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: or seven years old. So his parents, you know, at
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: the age of five, they figured, you know, this kid's
• 22:37
  Speaker 2: actually he's quite musical, so they figured let's put him
• 22:41
  Speaker 2: into formal tuition, initially with Philip Lank and then with
• 22:46
  Speaker 2: a guy called Frederic Auld. And you know, they were
• 22:49
  Speaker 2: both very schooled, I mean Royal College of Music type
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: kind of piano tutors. In Frederic Wall's case, I did
• 22:57
  Speaker 2: a lot of original research and dug out a bunch
• 23:00
  Speaker 2: of his history. He lived in Leicester, in a place
• 23:03
  Speaker 2: called Montague Road in Leicester, went to the Royal College
• 23:06
  Speaker 2: of Music at a very early age. Was a multiple
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: prize winner at the RCM, both on organ and on piano,
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: got awarded his degree by the University of Durham. His
• 23:17
  Speaker 2: mother had been unwell, so in nineteen forty one he
• 23:19
  Speaker 2: came back and he set up as a piano tutor,
• 23:23
  Speaker 2: and I actually found amazingly students who'd studied with Aught,
• 23:27
  Speaker 2: including up till the nineteen sixties and seventies. Right there
• 23:33
  Speaker 2: was a musician I discovered, Paul Morley, who now is
• 23:36
  Speaker 2: director of Music at the Leicester Church Music Consort. And
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: Paul studied with Frederick Cold, so he gave me amazing
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: color on all because John had never really talked about
• 23:49
  Speaker 2: him in enormous detail, but he did talk very glowingly
• 23:52
  Speaker 2: about what he learned from Frederick Gold in terms of
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: theory and music and that very skillful way he taught
• 23:59
  Speaker 2: and other students. But I got enormous color from Paul
• 24:03
  Speaker 2: because Paul knew him and knew him a bit more socially,
• 24:08
  Speaker 2: and had a lot of photography and kept a kind
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: of a scrapbook of pictures of Fredricord and so on.
• 24:14
  Speaker 2: So I befriended Paul, who's in Leicester, and he was
• 24:17
  Speaker 2: kind enough to share an enormous amount of detail with
• 24:19
  Speaker 2: me about Fredrick Hall, which gave me a perspective on
• 24:22
  Speaker 2: John's musical tuition and the kind of influences. I mean,
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: this is a guy who you know, knew Tchaikowsky knew Greek.
• 24:30
  Speaker 2: You know, knew Mendelsohn and many other classical composers, but
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: was equally adept at Gershwin and people like that. So
• 24:40
  Speaker 2: initially I got a clue. Immediately I got a clue that. Wow.
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: So if a guy is teaching a bit of Gershwin
• 24:45
  Speaker 2: and he's also teaching you know, Romantic classical nineteenth century
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: as well as Bach and Beethoven and Mozart, you know,
• 24:53
  Speaker 2: he's pretty eclectic. So I think John's musical eclecticism was
• 24:58
  Speaker 2: partly shaped by that. The other person I encountered early
• 25:03
  Speaker 2: or more later on in the project was John's brother Steve. Okay,
• 25:07
  Speaker 2: so John had has a younger brother called Stephen Lord.
• 25:11
  Speaker 2: He was born in nineteen forty five. It was his
• 25:13
  Speaker 2: eightieth birthday in the nineteenth of December last year, and
• 25:17
  Speaker 2: Steve was extremely supportive, introduced by poor Man and helped
• 25:23
  Speaker 2: me an enormous amount by painting a picture of what
• 25:27
  Speaker 2: family life was like in the nineteen forties at Avroll
• 25:30
  Speaker 2: Road in Leicester, where John grew up with.
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: That's a huge get for the book.
• 25:36
  Speaker 2: Right, So you got one hundred and twenty year road.
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: John's parents, Miriam and Reg moved there you know, probably
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: in the late thirties, early forties. And then John is
• 25:44
  Speaker 2: born in a nursing home nearby, and then Steve and
• 25:48
  Speaker 2: John grew up in that house, and Steve painted a
• 25:52
  Speaker 2: fabulous picture for me of life in the house. You
• 25:54
  Speaker 2: know what kind of records were playing, the kind of
• 25:57
  Speaker 2: popular classical nineteen forties that reg and Miriam would play
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: at the weekend, and aunt and uncle who would play
• 26:05
  Speaker 2: classical music at the weekend and invite John and his
• 26:08
  Speaker 2: parents over, So after dinner what you call tea, I
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: guess in that generation, they'd sit and play stuff, to
• 26:15
  Speaker 2: play some Mozart together, and John would be playing on
• 26:19
  Speaker 2: the piano as a kid, and Steve would be on
• 26:21
  Speaker 2: the recorder, I should say that way. So basically, you know,
• 26:25
  Speaker 2: you'd start getting this amazing picture. And John then leaves
• 26:29
  Speaker 2: school or when he's still at school, gets a part
• 26:31
  Speaker 2: time job in a menswear store in the center of Leicester,
• 26:36
  Speaker 2: and even buys pop records obviously Joey Lee Lewis and
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: Little Richard and people like that, but even buys Diana
• 26:43
  Speaker 2: by porl Anchor. So one of the earliest records Steve
• 26:46
  Speaker 2: recollects is John buying Diana and obviously porl Anchor is
• 26:50
  Speaker 2: still around amazingly. But you know, he was about seventeen
• 26:53
  Speaker 2: at the time. I think he was born in ninety
• 26:54
  Speaker 2: or forty one, so he was exactly the same age
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: as John, but he was a big pop star. So
• 26:59
  Speaker 2: you know, Steve remember as John buying Diana by Paul Anka.
• 27:02
  Speaker 2: And then obviously there's a teacher at school I think
• 27:06
  Speaker 2: called John Palmer, if I recollect you also is quite
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: a jazz fan. He knows Miles Davis, he knows Dave
• 27:12
  Speaker 2: brew Beck, and he knows loel Ferguson. So suddenly John
• 27:17
  Speaker 2: gets immersed in the music of American jazz and gets
• 27:24
  Speaker 2: you know, Porgy and Best by Miles Davis or a
• 27:29
  Speaker 2: Dave brew Beck album, and then suddenly, you know, you've
• 27:33
  Speaker 2: got this amazing musical eclecticism that by the time he
• 27:35
  Speaker 2: gets to London to study at Drama School, interestingly in
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: nineteen sixty one, he's musically adept and has an ear
• 27:45
  Speaker 2: for everything from pop to jazz, to modern classical to
• 27:50
  Speaker 2: traditional classical, to organ music to church music. And he's
• 27:53
  Speaker 2: also playing organ in church, don't forget, So you can
• 27:56
  Speaker 2: imagine the musical stimulus that he has no disrespect compared
• 28:01
  Speaker 2: to a regular rock player. It's quite ridiculous.
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: Sure, man, he sponged all that up. And then it
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: comes the Beatles. You see a fan I'm sure of
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: the Beatles, and.
• 28:14
  Speaker 2: I mean he gets to London, gets into R and
• 28:16
  Speaker 2: B and blues, and obviously, as you know, all these
• 28:18
  Speaker 2: bands like the Stones, you know, the Stones come from
• 28:21
  Speaker 2: a kind of a blues type of vein, as did
• 28:24
  Speaker 2: The Who initially, and then they morphed quickly into something else.
• 28:27
  Speaker 2: But I think the Stones stayed more bluesy and the
• 28:30
  Speaker 2: Who turned into something else. And the Beatles, funnily enough,
• 28:33
  Speaker 2: didn't even have that bluesy influence. They were much more
• 28:36
  Speaker 2: of an American pop influence band. You know, Bruce Channel
• 28:40
  Speaker 2: and people like that, and a lot of the art
• 28:41
  Speaker 2: you know, the Motown records and female American singers. They
• 28:46
  Speaker 2: were quite influenced by.
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: That, skiffle artists the Beatles as.
• 28:49
  Speaker 2: Well, Lonnie Donegan and stuff. So you know, you get
• 28:51
  Speaker 2: that eclectic American and British influence. And obviously, as you
• 28:55
  Speaker 2: know the history with the Beatles, you know they buy
• 28:58
  Speaker 2: records in Liverpool. The apocryphal story is, you know, sailors
• 29:02
  Speaker 2: and Seamen and people like that from America would get requests,
• 29:06
  Speaker 2: you know when you come back by you known X
• 29:09
  Speaker 2: y Z record and alongside the Lonnie Donnegan influence that
• 29:13
  Speaker 2: that's kind of where you get the slightly blue azier approach.
• 29:15
  Speaker 2: So John definitely gets into the Beatles, and later on
• 29:18
  Speaker 2: in twenty ten or two thousand and nine, he gets
• 29:22
  Speaker 2: interviewed by a radio station in Eastern Europe and his
• 29:26
  Speaker 2: three favorite records that he tells them are Revolver by
• 29:29
  Speaker 2: the Beatles, Led Zeppelin two and the first, and the
• 29:35
  Speaker 2: Doors album The Doors. So yeah, he becomes quite a
• 29:41
  Speaker 2: big Beatles fan, and I've seen it in interviews as well.
• 29:43
  Speaker 2: There's an interview from I think Melody Makron seventy or
• 29:47
  Speaker 2: seventy one way he gets asked, you know, who's your
• 29:49
  Speaker 2: favorite singer and he says, Paul McCartney. You know, So
• 29:54
  Speaker 2: he's into certainly, And of course, as you know, he
• 29:58
  Speaker 2: then gets very close and friendly with with George Harrison.
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: Well, the other one is Ronnie Wood, a future Rolling Stone.
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: I had no idea he knew Ronnie and his brother
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: very well, right, they met their teen years amazing.
• 30:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, So John joins a band called the Artwoods. There
• 30:14
  Speaker 2: are a number of seminal figures in British blues in
• 30:17
  Speaker 2: the early and mid sixties, people like Alexis Corner and
• 30:20
  Speaker 2: obviously John Mayle, Graham Bond Artwood is definitely in there
• 30:25
  Speaker 2: as well. Graham Bond forms a Grand Bond Organization, which
• 30:28
  Speaker 2: even John McLachlin is in the Grand Bond Organization.
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: Wow, this new orchestra one hundred percent.
• 30:35
  Speaker 2: He had a whole kind of emergence of all these
• 30:37
  Speaker 2: young guys who pre their psychedelic or jazz rock areas
• 30:43
  Speaker 2: are in these bands. So you know he's with Graham Bond,
• 30:47
  Speaker 2: art Woods has a number of associations Alexis Corner, John Mayle,
• 30:52
  Speaker 2: John Male obviously has Clapton, you know, so you get
• 30:56
  Speaker 2: landmark figures of six eight years later in from this
• 31:00
  Speaker 2: scene and John is obviously quite close to Otward. He
• 31:05
  Speaker 2: ends up staying in their mother's house if I recollect
• 31:09
  Speaker 2: in Middlesex, and he knows Ronnie when Ronnie's probably thirteen, fourteen,
• 31:14
  Speaker 2: fifteen years old. So he's in the band with the
• 31:16
  Speaker 2: elder brother and the little kid brother's hanging around and
• 31:20
  Speaker 2: he's getting into music and as you know, lands up
• 31:25
  Speaker 2: eventually with Jeff Beck and obviously later on with the Stones,
• 31:31
  Speaker 2: but he's on the Jeff Beck Truth Album, etc. So
• 31:35
  Speaker 2: the answer is yes, John ends up knowing Ronnie when
• 31:38
  Speaker 2: Ronnie is a teenager.
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: The book Down Rock podcast is part of the Boneless
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: podcasting Network. If you're a fan of classic rock and
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: classic film like I am, go to Boneless dot Lovable
• 31:50
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• 31:54
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• 31:57
  Speaker 1: dot com. Click on the logo. It'll take your right
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: too the Boneless podcasting Network. It is what you want
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: to be Listen with confidence and John also played alongside
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: Jimmy Page and Ray Davis of The Kinks.
• 32:12
  Speaker 2: Interesting story, I mean, you know, I think the truth
• 32:16
  Speaker 2: of the story is John did a few sessions here
• 32:19
  Speaker 2: and there in the sixties and definitely did a version
• 32:23
  Speaker 2: of You Really Got Me by the Kinks. Now what
• 32:28
  Speaker 2: then happens is as far as one can research, the
• 32:33
  Speaker 2: bands like the Kings would do lots of different versions,
• 32:36
  Speaker 2: even with different people. Later on, Steely Dan are famous
• 32:40
  Speaker 2: for that. I mean every Steely DWN album has you know,
• 32:42
  Speaker 2: six different versions of every chat with completely different players
• 32:46
  Speaker 2: on it to the ones who had land up on
• 32:47
  Speaker 2: the record, because they just literally bring twenty to twenty
• 32:53
  Speaker 2: five guys in on different instruments and just choose who
• 32:56
  Speaker 2: eventually gets exactly what they want to achieve. But you know,
• 33:00
  Speaker 2: the Kings did that a little bit. So there are
• 33:03
  Speaker 2: two players, once called Arthur Greenslade, who was on You
• 33:07
  Speaker 2: Really Got Me, and then John Lord insisted he was
• 33:09
  Speaker 2: on it. He either was or he was on a
• 33:13
  Speaker 2: version that didn't get recorded. But to be honest with you,
• 33:17
  Speaker 2: because the piano part is so simple, it's kind of
• 33:19
  Speaker 2: like a single note piano part, it could be either,
• 33:23
  Speaker 2: but it's probably more likely to be Greenslade. But the
• 33:26
  Speaker 2: Kings later said they did the guitar. But John also
• 33:31
  Speaker 2: swore it was Jimmy because I was there. So we
• 33:35
  Speaker 2: don't know if the final recorded one is Jimmy as
• 33:38
  Speaker 2: far as I know, or whether it was the King's
• 33:40
  Speaker 2: or whether they use Jimmy, but don't say it, and
• 33:43
  Speaker 2: there's no reason for them to say John Lord wasn't
• 33:45
  Speaker 2: on it, But it's more likely he was on a version,
• 33:48
  Speaker 2: and the version that God released may well have been
• 33:50
  Speaker 2: with him or with somebody else, But he was certainly
• 33:53
  Speaker 2: there on one of the versions that the Kings did.
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: And he appeared on Ready Steady Go, which was the
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: famous UK music show.
• 34:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean the first live show of that. The
• 34:04
  Speaker 2: art was with the opening band on it. So what
• 34:07
  Speaker 2: you also get is a sense of, you know, this
• 34:11
  Speaker 2: musical community in London at the time, Ready Steady Go
• 34:15
  Speaker 2: was a broadcast I think it was a Manchester broadcast program.
• 34:21
  Speaker 2: Obviously all these musicians knew each other. So John ends
• 34:25
  Speaker 2: up encountering a musician called Chris Curtis who's in a
• 34:31
  Speaker 2: Liverpool band called the Searchers, who the Beatles know really
• 34:35
  Speaker 2: well because the Search has even toured with them, and
• 34:39
  Speaker 2: Paul McCartney knows the Search as well because they did
• 34:41
  Speaker 2: their farewell concert I think last year and there's a
• 34:43
  Speaker 2: photograph of the remaining members of the Searchers with McCartney
• 34:46
  Speaker 2: at Glastonbury or somewhere, so you know, the Searchers were
• 34:50
  Speaker 2: a Liverpool band, and through the Ready Steady Go in
• 34:55
  Speaker 2: a party that was done by their producer, John meets
• 35:00
  Speaker 2: Curtis and they happen to know a roadie from Propol Harum.
• 35:05
  Speaker 2: They both know that person, so they get kind of
• 35:08
  Speaker 2: get thrown together, and Chris Curtis has got an idea
• 35:11
  Speaker 2: for a band, which he thinks is a band of
• 35:13
  Speaker 2: revolving kind of personnel. Chris Curtis's idea is people come
• 35:20
  Speaker 2: and go from the band. It's got to line up
• 35:22
  Speaker 2: for an album or a record, and then the bass
• 35:24
  Speaker 2: player jumps off and someone else comes on. Relatively difficult
• 35:30
  Speaker 2: to implement concept, but that's his idea. He encounters a manager,
• 35:35
  Speaker 2: an aspiring manager called Tony Edwards. Tony Edwards is from
• 35:40
  Speaker 2: an entrepreneurial family in London who have a fashion manufacturing
• 35:48
  Speaker 2: business fashion and textile business called Alice Edwards Holdings Limited,
• 35:53
  Speaker 2: and Tony works there because he's part of the family,
• 35:56
  Speaker 2: so they're quite well to do. But Tony aspires to
• 35:58
  Speaker 2: be a manager, and Chris Kurtis manages the flatter Tony
• 36:02
  Speaker 2: and tells him, you know, you could be the next
• 36:04
  Speaker 2: Brian Epstein. You know, I know Brian, you could be Brian.
• 36:08
  Speaker 2: And by then or thereabouts, obviously Brian passes away because
• 36:11
  Speaker 2: he dies in nineteen sixty seven, I think, so Tony
• 36:14
  Speaker 2: gets quite flattered by that and his business oriented by nature,
• 36:20
  Speaker 2: and then starts working with Tony with Chris curtis a
• 36:23
  Speaker 2: bit but no disrespect. Chris is, you know, is a
• 36:26
  Speaker 2: bit flaky. There's a bit of drug use. He lands
• 36:29
  Speaker 2: up sharing an apartner with John Lord. According to John
• 36:31
  Speaker 2: literally shows up in his flat in gun To Grove
• 36:34
  Speaker 2: in Chelsea and decides, you know, I'm sharing a flat
• 36:36
  Speaker 2: with you. Okay, you decide in, come on in. So
• 36:41
  Speaker 2: you know, John's a very nice guys in christ all right,
• 36:44
  Speaker 2: and obviously he does some crazy stuff like, you know,
• 36:46
  Speaker 2: puts up aluminum foil in the apartment because he thinks
• 36:51
  Speaker 2: radio signals are trying to get him. Say, he definitely
• 36:53
  Speaker 2: has some mental health issues. So you know, Tony Edwards
• 36:57
  Speaker 2: realizes quite quickly, and then Chris disappears up to liverpoolally
• 37:00
  Speaker 2: ends up working in the public secret in Liverpool. But
• 37:03
  Speaker 2: Tony realizes that John Lord guy is a lot more solid.
• 37:06
  Speaker 2: He's not flaky. You know, he doesn't take drugs. He's
• 37:09
  Speaker 2: kind of a stable guy. I want to keep my
• 37:11
  Speaker 2: aspiration going. But this guy, John Lord, sounds like the
• 37:14
  Speaker 2: musical anchor who can help me get into music management.
• 37:17
  Speaker 2: So he says to John, you know, if you've got
• 37:19
  Speaker 2: a musical vision, which at the time is a kind
• 37:22
  Speaker 2: of combination of classical and rock. Why don't you put
• 37:25
  Speaker 2: the band together? So he encounters a guy who is
• 37:29
  Speaker 2: introduced to him interestingly by Chris Curtis, originally called Richie
• 37:32
  Speaker 2: Blackmore and Blackmore. They see Blackmore play live Oh sorry
• 37:37
  Speaker 2: that Tony gets Blackmore to come over to see John
• 37:40
  Speaker 2: Lord live without Lord realizing it. And then in December
• 37:43
  Speaker 2: sixty seven, Richie Blackmore comes back to London from Germany
• 37:49
  Speaker 2: from Hamburg, where he's living, and they put together a
• 37:52
  Speaker 2: band which includes a basis called Nick Simper, who John
• 37:56
  Speaker 2: knows from his previous musical history. Richie has an interest
• 38:02
  Speaker 2: in a drummer whose name he can't fully remember, but
• 38:04
  Speaker 2: he says, there's a bad called the Maze, which also
• 38:06
  Speaker 2: goes by the name of mi I five, which is
• 38:08
  Speaker 2: the British Inteligence Agency, and there's a drummer in there,
• 38:11
  Speaker 2: young curly head. Look, he's really good. He's a young lad,
• 38:14
  Speaker 2: but he's brilliant. And that also is Ian Pace. And
• 38:18
  Speaker 2: then they know a single called Rod Evans, so they
• 38:22
  Speaker 2: tell Rod, you know, bring the drummer along, and so
• 38:25
  Speaker 2: they land up initially with a drummer called Bobby Woodman.
• 38:28
  Speaker 2: They send him off to the corner shop to buy
• 38:30
  Speaker 2: some cigarettes, sneakin Ean Pace Pacey does his stuff. In
• 38:33
  Speaker 2: sixty eight, they realize he's the guy. Amazingly. Of course,
• 38:37
  Speaker 2: as we know, between ninety and sixty eight and twenty
• 38:40
  Speaker 2: twenty six, Ian pace is still there. He's still still
• 38:43
  Speaker 2: on every album and there is a single Deep Purple
• 38:47
  Speaker 2: gig that doesn't have the in Pace in it.
• 38:49
  Speaker 1: That is amazing, that's unbelievable.
• 38:51
  Speaker 2: Wow, every live Deep Purple gig from ninety sixty eight.
• 38:54
  Speaker 2: They haven't done a gig without him, and he's on
• 38:56
  Speaker 2: every single album. But they find him because he comes
• 38:59
  Speaker 2: in with Rod Von. He's about twenty years old at
• 39:01
  Speaker 2: the time, very young, and they realized between Nick Simper,
• 39:05
  Speaker 2: Ian Page, Rod Evans, John Lord and Richie, that's the
• 39:08
  Speaker 2: original Deep Purple lineup.
• 39:10
  Speaker 1: Wow, that is how we get Deep Purple. Now, Deep
• 39:12
  Speaker 1: Purple was the name of a song.
• 39:15
  Speaker 2: It was. It was a kind of fifties pop song,
• 39:19
  Speaker 2: which I think may have had a history before that
• 39:20
  Speaker 2: as well, but it was apparently Richie Batmore's grandmother's favorites
• 39:24
  Speaker 2: right or she liked it so. Among the various names
• 39:28
  Speaker 2: that came up, like Orpheus and some worthy sounding Proggy names.
• 39:33
  Speaker 2: You know, they were struggling a bit because none of
• 39:35
  Speaker 2: the names quite fitted what they wanted to achieve. One
• 39:38
  Speaker 2: was called I think Concrete God. One is called Orpheus,
• 39:42
  Speaker 2: and then Richie says, well, why don't we just call
• 39:44
  Speaker 2: it Deep Purple, because you know that sounds like an
• 39:47
  Speaker 2: interesting enough name, and they adopted the name Deep Purple.
• 39:51
  Speaker 1: Hey guys, we'll get back to the show, but first
• 39:53
  Speaker 1: I want to tell you about an exclusive deal for
• 39:55
  Speaker 1: Booked on Rock. Listeners get fifteen percent off any purchase
• 39:58
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• 40:02
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• 40:07
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• 40:11
  Speaker 1: Pink Floyd, led Zeppelin, and many many more. Go to
• 40:14
  Speaker 1: old Glory dot Com. Make sure to use the promo code.
• 40:16
  Speaker 1: Booked on Rock also find a link in this episode
• 40:19
  Speaker 1: show notes, or just go to Booked on Rock dot
• 40:21
  Speaker 1: com and click on my deals. Weren't they on a
• 40:25
  Speaker 1: label that was run by Bill Cosby?
• 40:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah, they landed up.
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: What a bizarre story. Yeah, you know when you think about.
• 40:32
  Speaker 2: It, Yeah, they eventually land up When Emi in the UK,
• 40:36
  Speaker 2: but obviously international rights. At the time, I guess THEMI
• 40:40
  Speaker 2: was probably less active in the US and much more
• 40:42
  Speaker 2: of a European label. I don't see. They owned Abby
• 40:46
  Speaker 2: Roads studios and all that kind of stuff, So they
• 40:49
  Speaker 2: needed a label in the US, and this single Hush,
• 40:53
  Speaker 2: you know, get put together as part of the first album,
• 40:56
  Speaker 2: and a label called Tetragrammaton, which includes Bill Bill Cosby
• 41:01
  Speaker 2: as an investor and shareholder, gets set up. So the
• 41:05
  Speaker 2: good thing is obviously at the time he has a
• 41:06
  Speaker 2: lot of heavyweight Hollywood connections and so on. So Hush
• 41:11
  Speaker 2: gets released by Tetragrammaton in the US becomes very successful
• 41:14
  Speaker 2: in like a number four chart single from zero in
• 41:17
  Speaker 2: terms of the band not having any name. So they
• 41:19
  Speaker 2: end up landing up in the US in late sixty eight,
• 41:23
  Speaker 2: if I recollect, they do a tour of the US.
• 41:27
  Speaker 2: They do a tour also supporting Cream, and they land
• 41:31
  Speaker 2: up in Hollywood, and they land up on you know,
• 41:33
  Speaker 2: Hugh Hefner's Evening Playboy program and they do a rendition
• 41:38
  Speaker 2: of Hush. So the reality is Tetragrammaton, and the Cosby
• 41:42
  Speaker 2: connection is actually really useful to them initially because it
• 41:46
  Speaker 2: gives them an entree into Hollywood and into gigging and
• 41:50
  Speaker 2: into their first tour which probably wouldn't have happened without that.
• 41:53
  Speaker 1: Hush is still played on the radio. It's still a
• 41:56
  Speaker 1: great song. It's held up so well. But rod Evans
• 41:58
  Speaker 1: was only there briefly, and then he on to join
• 42:00
  Speaker 1: a band that I love, Captain Beyond, which is a
• 42:04
  Speaker 1: great band. But they didn't like the direction they were
• 42:06
  Speaker 1: going with rod Evans. I guess right, it was something.
• 42:09
  Speaker 1: What was the reason that he was out?
• 42:11
  Speaker 2: What happened I feel was, you know, they reached a
• 42:14
  Speaker 2: certain point in sixty eight early sixty nine perhaps where
• 42:19
  Speaker 2: they figured, this is the end of the line. We've
• 42:22
  Speaker 2: we've gone as far as we can with this lineup.
• 42:25
  Speaker 2: They rightly or wrongly felt Nick Simple wasn't the right guy.
• 42:28
  Speaker 2: Nick's still alive, and rightly or wrongly, they felt that
• 42:33
  Speaker 2: rod Evans wasn't the right guy. A bit more ballad oriented,
• 42:36
  Speaker 2: a bit of more of that deeper baritone voice, a
• 42:40
  Speaker 2: bit elvisly actually, in many ways, if you listen to Harsh,
• 42:43
  Speaker 2: there's definitely a feel of Elvis in there. But they
• 42:46
  Speaker 2: figured with Zeppelin and Mountain and you know, Vanilla Fudge
• 42:55
  Speaker 2: you know, and Hendrix obviously is a major influence on Blackmore.
• 42:58
  Speaker 2: So you know, it's getting heavy, Claptain's getting heavier, it's
• 43:01
  Speaker 2: getting amplified. Pete Townsend the key figure in this amplification story.
• 43:06
  Speaker 2: Jim Marshall is the instrumental figure in the emergence of
• 43:10
  Speaker 2: amplification in rock music because it's with the combination of
• 43:16
  Speaker 2: the Fender stratocaster and the Gibson less Paul, but particularly
• 43:19
  Speaker 2: the Marshal amplification that takes us into the world we
• 43:22
  Speaker 2: know today literally today to this day. You know, Marshall
• 43:26
  Speaker 2: is a huge name in the guitar world. So they
• 43:29
  Speaker 2: can see all this happening because they've got their musical
• 43:31
  Speaker 2: ears on and they go, well, you know, Townsend doing
• 43:34
  Speaker 2: all this feedback and loud stuff, and Hendrix and Clapton
• 43:37
  Speaker 2: and Jimmy Page, who Richie Blackmore knows and John Lord
• 43:40
  Speaker 2: knows him as well, and we're not going to get
• 43:43
  Speaker 2: there with Nick and Rod, which is not going to
• 43:45
  Speaker 2: get there now. Nick disputes that and has his own
• 43:47
  Speaker 2: perspective which is absolutely valid, which is that Number one,
• 43:50
  Speaker 2: I didn't do anything wrong. Number two hours and much
• 43:52
  Speaker 2: of a supporter of going that way as they were.
• 43:54
  Speaker 2: So they did a little bit of the dirty or
• 43:56
  Speaker 2: Nick to be frank, it's not a great great episode
• 43:58
  Speaker 2: and on the interpersonal side, but they edged Nick out
• 44:01
  Speaker 2: and they edge Rod out, and they knew from a
• 44:04
  Speaker 2: preceding kind of from kind of preceding audition process. There's
• 44:13
  Speaker 2: this guy called Ian Gillan in a band called Episode six,
• 44:17
  Speaker 2: and he's got the right look. I mean, Ian, as
• 44:19
  Speaker 2: you know, is super tall, very good looking, even now
• 44:23
  Speaker 2: highly charismatic. I saw them in Dubai in November and
• 44:26
  Speaker 2: Ian still got it. I mean he's still just got
• 44:28
  Speaker 2: a ton of presents. So they figured, you know, that's
• 44:31
  Speaker 2: the way we want to go, like a Jim you know,
• 44:33
  Speaker 2: Jim Morrison looking guy who can compete a bit with
• 44:36
  Speaker 2: Robert plant and who's got that more edge scream to
• 44:41
  Speaker 2: his voice and a big, big range. So they get
• 44:44
  Speaker 2: Ian in and then Ian goes, well, you know, I've
• 44:47
  Speaker 2: got a mate who was with me in episode six
• 44:49
  Speaker 2: called six, called Roger Glover. Can I bring Roger along
• 44:54
  Speaker 2: with me? And they say fine, So Roger comes with
• 44:56
  Speaker 2: with Ian because they write songs together, and I I
• 45:00
  Speaker 2: suspect Ian wants Roger there because he knows as part
• 45:02
  Speaker 2: of a songwriting duo. You know, Roger's my partner, He's
• 45:05
  Speaker 2: got to be with me. So Ian joins fairly soon.
• 45:09
  Speaker 2: Roger has a lot more of a crisis of conscience,
• 45:12
  Speaker 2: I think, and kind of sleeps over overnight, doesn't commit,
• 45:17
  Speaker 2: doesn't want to let his friends down in episode six,
• 45:20
  Speaker 2: but eventually joins as well. So to answer your question,
• 45:24
  Speaker 2: you know, they come as a duo Ian and Roger,
• 45:26
  Speaker 2: and of course, amazingly nineteen sixty nine, twenty twenty six,
• 45:29
  Speaker 2: this still in the band. You know, I'm seeing them
• 45:32
  Speaker 2: on stage in November and Roger's still there, Ian Pace
• 45:36
  Speaker 2: is still there, and Ian Gillan's still there, so which
• 45:39
  Speaker 2: is amazing to see. So that to answer your question,
• 45:42
  Speaker 2: you know, music s Edge Year, Cream Hendrix, led Zeppelin,
• 45:47
  Speaker 2: Vanilla Fudge, Mountain, and then obviously Richie goes We're going
• 45:51
  Speaker 2: to have to go that way.
• 45:52
  Speaker 1: Never before has anybody taken such an account of the
• 45:55
  Speaker 1: gear setups that John Lord used over the years. This
• 45:59
  Speaker 1: book's are as an important reference of the equipment and
• 46:02
  Speaker 1: the instrumentation that he used throughout his career. His story career,
• 46:05
  Speaker 1: he's famously known for pioneering the use of the hamond Oregan.
• 46:09
  Speaker 1: His interest in the instrument came thanks to the soundtrack
• 46:13
  Speaker 1: to a Stanley Kubrick film, A Clockwork Orange.
• 46:17
  Speaker 2: Interestingly, so there, I think two strains to focus on
• 46:21
  Speaker 2: him in the focus of the book, coming back to
• 46:23
  Speaker 2: you one of your original points about him being a
• 46:25
  Speaker 2: very private guy. I didn't want to do John Law
• 46:27
  Speaker 2: as a person because the trouble is number one. I
• 46:31
  Speaker 2: wasn't so interested in that because I wanted to focus
• 46:34
  Speaker 2: on the music and the sound and the instrumentation. What
• 46:36
  Speaker 2: really excited me when I was thinking about it was,
• 46:41
  Speaker 2: if you take the Lone Donoghan era, the Skiffer era,
• 46:46
  Speaker 2: and the little Richard Elvis Joey Lee Lewis era, you've
• 46:50
  Speaker 2: got a guy whose musical career spans everything from there
• 46:55
  Speaker 2: through the early sixties R and B blues, the Beatles, psychedelia, progue,
• 47:05
  Speaker 2: heavy rock, FM rock, heavy rock again, in between classical
• 47:12
  Speaker 2: and rock, hybrid across piano organ into monophonic synthesizers preceding
• 47:24
  Speaker 2: that modular systems, and then into quoalphonic sampling, MIDI workstation, etc.
• 47:34
  Speaker 2: So I'm thinking, wow, I mean number one is career
• 47:37
  Speaker 2: spans all these generations, And I was always interested in
• 47:41
  Speaker 2: a fictional idea of a session musician he spans all
• 47:43
  Speaker 2: these eras. But I thought, forget the fiction thing for
• 47:46
  Speaker 2: a second. There's a guy who spans all these eras,
• 47:49
  Speaker 2: and the instrumentation he uses spans all these eras as well,
• 47:52
  Speaker 2: because we go from piano, which is when he becomes
• 47:56
  Speaker 2: adept at playing all the way to corgam one and
• 48:00
  Speaker 2: caught Emy Proteus and Module expander, module expanded type era.
• 48:06
  Speaker 2: So I'm thinking, what would be great would be to
• 48:09
  Speaker 2: interview Winter Eve's musical story with the unique sound that
• 48:14
  Speaker 2: comes out of some of these bands like Deep Purple,
• 48:18
  Speaker 2: with the story of his instruments, but underneath it the
• 48:23
  Speaker 2: layering of the history of some of these names, because
• 48:26
  Speaker 2: I could talk about the Mini Mogue and the Polymogue,
• 48:30
  Speaker 2: but I'd love also to talk a little bit about
• 48:32
  Speaker 2: Robert Mogue, and I'd love to talk about John's use
• 48:35
  Speaker 2: of the Art Odyssey and the Art String Ensemble and
• 48:39
  Speaker 2: so pro soloist. But I'd also love to talk about
• 48:42
  Speaker 2: Alan Perlman, who created Art. Those were his initials, Alan R. Perlman.
• 48:49
  Speaker 2: So I thought, what's really interesting. It's a different book,
• 48:53
  Speaker 2: But I thought, what's really interesting is to bring a
• 48:55
  Speaker 2: little bit about the history of the emergency of these instruments.
• 48:57
  Speaker 2: Don Buckler, an early America can pioneer Tom Oberheim, who
• 49:02
  Speaker 2: I'll talk about in a second, and then all these
• 49:04
  Speaker 2: other guys as well as by the seventies, the Japanese guys,
• 49:08
  Speaker 2: because when you start getting into the mid seventies, it's
• 49:12
  Speaker 2: really becomes the story of Cork and Roland and especially Yamaha,
• 49:19
  Speaker 2: and the American name sadly start disappearing, even fair Light
• 49:22
  Speaker 2: and Cinclavia, and you know some of these are Australian
• 49:25
  Speaker 2: as well, but you know, the Japanese really take over.
• 49:28
  Speaker 2: So I thought, that's a really interesting background landscaping thing.
• 49:33
  Speaker 2: So do you answer your point? I figured, let's leave
• 49:36
  Speaker 2: aside John the person, John the family man, John the colleague,
• 49:40
  Speaker 2: because that's been covered and is okay, but is not
• 49:43
  Speaker 2: going to unnecessarily unearth anything particularly unique. The most unique
• 49:48
  Speaker 2: angle I can find is the pianist, John the instrumentalist,
• 49:53
  Speaker 2: John the organist, John the composer, John the arranger, John
• 49:59
  Speaker 2: the classical music, John the rock musician, and then interweave
• 50:02
  Speaker 2: into that the story of the emergence of some of
• 50:05
  Speaker 2: these instruments. So it's like almost like multi layered, if
• 50:08
  Speaker 2: I may be musical, slightly contrapuntal, but I wanted to
• 50:11
  Speaker 2: create these lines of different things which allow you to
• 50:15
  Speaker 2: do a biographical work which isn't just John. You know,
• 50:20
  Speaker 2: he was born here, he lived here. Here are his friends.
• 50:23
  Speaker 2: You know I've touched on that, and I've spoken to
• 50:25
  Speaker 2: a number of his friends. But I wanted to create
• 50:27
  Speaker 2: this almost contrapuntial musical story of all these different layers
• 50:31
  Speaker 2: of musical stimulus, because if you think about it, you know,
• 50:36
  Speaker 2: he starts off playing piano. He gets into the organ
• 50:39
  Speaker 2: actually having heard Muddy Waters and having been tutored by
• 50:45
  Speaker 2: Graham Bond of the Grand Bond Organization. So here's Jimmy Smith.
• 50:50
  Speaker 2: That's the major influence Walk on the wild Side. He's
• 50:54
  Speaker 2: a Muddy Waters record with Hammond on it and goes, wow,
• 50:56
  Speaker 2: what's that instrument compared to the church organ I play
• 51:00
  Speaker 2: or have played? And then he gets into obviously hearing
• 51:05
  Speaker 2: about it and learning about it from Graham Bond. He
• 51:07
  Speaker 2: then understands what a Hammond organ is. Starts off with
• 51:10
  Speaker 2: a Lowry organ but ends up acquiring an a Hammond
• 51:14
  Speaker 2: L one hundred organ, and then the famous c three,
• 51:16
  Speaker 2: for which he's famous, and then so the Hammond story
• 51:20
  Speaker 2: is that, but by the late sixties the band start
• 51:24
  Speaker 2: becoming successful. He acquires a melotron, which is a key
• 51:27
  Speaker 2: instrument in that era, okay, and you hear a melotron
• 51:30
  Speaker 2: on Genesis records and Yes Records and stuff like that.
• 51:35
  Speaker 2: And then by the early seventies, by nineteen seventy itself,
• 51:37
  Speaker 2: he acquires an rm I piano and an rm I
• 51:40
  Speaker 2: three hundred B. And the RMI piano is really famous
• 51:43
  Speaker 2: because then you hear that on Selling England by the Pound,
• 51:47
  Speaker 2: and you know Lammard Liws down on Broadway and stuff
• 51:49
  Speaker 2: like that. That's the rm I three six s avee
• 51:51
  Speaker 2: which Tony Banks us this, so you know, you get
• 51:53
  Speaker 2: the RMI piano. He plays a mini mode for the
• 51:56
  Speaker 2: first time in America in nineteen seventy because he's there
• 51:58
  Speaker 2: for a tour, and then by seventy three he really
• 52:02
  Speaker 2: starts getting quite into it with the art Podissey and
• 52:06
  Speaker 2: then with the later with arp instruments, and then by
• 52:08
  Speaker 2: the early eighties, late seventies with the Polymog minimog and
• 52:13
  Speaker 2: then the Micromog and the Mog sauce and the mog
• 52:16
  Speaker 2: Opus three and so without getting two geeky on this
• 52:19
  Speaker 2: particular podcast, you know, you get these phases. You know,
• 52:22
  Speaker 2: you get the organ phase, and then you get the
• 52:24
  Speaker 2: r Andi piano phase and the mellotron phase, and then
• 52:27
  Speaker 2: you get the art Podissey phase kind of early monophonic,
• 52:31
  Speaker 2: and then you get the polyphonic with the polymog and
• 52:33
  Speaker 2: the memory mogue, and then he goes full scale Yamaha
• 52:36
  Speaker 2: by the early mid eges I'm sorry, by by about
• 52:39
  Speaker 2: eighty six the Yamaha DX one d X seven and
• 52:42
  Speaker 2: by the Yamaha CP seventeen cpaight electric piano grand Mini
• 52:46
  Speaker 2: Grand piano or eighty eight key grand piano, and then
• 52:49
  Speaker 2: he starts getting into sampling with the Emi Lator one
• 52:52
  Speaker 2: m Lator two. So you know, it starts getting really
• 52:54
  Speaker 2: interesting because you hear all these things on Deep burbl
• 52:56
  Speaker 2: and Whitesnake records. And what I've tried to do is
• 52:59
  Speaker 2: for the fans go, you know, here's the sound.
• 53:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and you see the pictures of him on stage,
• 53:04
  Speaker 1: it's like this scene out of a sci fi movie,
• 53:06
  Speaker 1: all the around him and yeah. So that was Wendy
• 53:09
  Speaker 1: Carlos was the composer for Clockwork Orange that was utilizing the.
• 53:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, initially they switched on Bark album, which is a
• 53:17
  Speaker 2: multiple Grammy winning platinum album, and then Kubrick got her
• 53:20
  Speaker 2: to do the soundtrack for Clockwork.
• 53:22
  Speaker 1: Orange, and then John heard that.
• 53:25
  Speaker 2: Well there's a funny story there which is sorry to digress,
• 53:28
  Speaker 2: but it was originally Anyo Morricone that he wanted and
• 53:31
  Speaker 2: Sergio Dooni unfortunately told him a lie and told him
• 53:35
  Speaker 2: and he was not available because he didn't want Anyo
• 53:37
  Speaker 2: to work with Kubrick, which is amazing. He didn't want
• 53:42
  Speaker 2: any of morconey to work with Kubrick, so he said, Oh,
• 53:44
  Speaker 2: I checked with any He's not available, He's really busy.
• 53:48
  Speaker 2: Kubrick went all right, and then got Wendy Carlos to
• 53:50
  Speaker 2: do and ironically, of course with a Landmark soundtrack. So
• 53:54
  Speaker 2: that soundtrack was the one I think. John said in
• 53:57
  Speaker 2: a later interview in eighty two what really got me
• 53:59
  Speaker 2: to think about since it was less what Keith and
• 54:02
  Speaker 2: Rick were doing, because I really admired that, but that
• 54:03
  Speaker 2: was different. It was Clockwork Orange that made me think, Wow, actually,
• 54:07
  Speaker 2: let me start thinking about integrating this into my music.
• 54:13
  Speaker 1: Hey guys, thanks so much for checking out the Booked
• 54:15
  Speaker 1: on Rock podcast. If you've just found the podcast, welcome.
• 54:19
  Speaker 1: If you've been listening, thank you so much for your support,
• 54:22
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• 54:24
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• 54:27
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• 54:30
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• 54:33
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  Speaker 1: tune in, and on YouTube music. You can check out
• 54:41
  Speaker 1: the full episodes on video, along with video highlights from
• 54:44
  Speaker 1: episodes on the Booked on Rock YouTube channel. Find it
• 54:47
  Speaker 1: at Booked on Rock. Thanks again for listening. Now back
• 54:50
  Speaker 1: to the show. Elvis Knackvie is the author of John
• 54:54
  Speaker 1: Lord Before We Forget, a work in eight movements. He
• 54:57
  Speaker 1: was also a fan of the Odyssey you talked about
• 55:00
  Speaker 1: that the ARP Odyssey. You hear it featured heavily on
• 55:05
  Speaker 1: the solo to the song space Truck In, which is
• 55:08
  Speaker 1: absolutely phenomenal. You hear the synthesizers across the eight tracks
• 55:12
  Speaker 1: on the seventy four album Burn, which is a phenomenal album.
• 55:16
  Speaker 1: What d you juand to this particular instrument.
• 55:18
  Speaker 2: It's interesting, I mean, how do you know exactly, because
• 55:22
  Speaker 2: you know, the mog was around at the time. Mo
• 55:24
  Speaker 2: probably had the Mini mogu and that was initially about it.
• 55:29
  Speaker 2: They did the Polymog, I think at seventy five, and
• 55:32
  Speaker 2: Keith Emerson was a big, big mog you know, almost
• 55:36
  Speaker 2: like a kind of a sounding board for Bob mo going.
• 55:40
  Speaker 2: Bob MoG's a go to guy on how would this
• 55:44
  Speaker 2: sound on a record or live? Or how would this
• 55:46
  Speaker 2: perform live? Was Keith Emerson. So Keith was really his
• 55:50
  Speaker 2: kind of muse, if you like Bob MoG's muse. And
• 55:54
  Speaker 2: so he even created a combination of instruments in seventy
• 55:57
  Speaker 2: three seventy four, seventy three for Keith called the mog Installation,
• 56:01
  Speaker 2: which was Moge's idea to create the biggest ever, most
• 56:04
  Speaker 2: multifaceted synthesizer, and it was what landed up becoming the
• 56:10
  Speaker 2: Polymog was pulled out of that, the more Tauris pedals
• 56:14
  Speaker 2: bass pedals were kind of pulled out of that because
• 56:15
  Speaker 2: the constellation didn't quite work. But the component parts of
• 56:19
  Speaker 2: it became what became the Polymog, the polyphonic instrument, and
• 56:23
  Speaker 2: the Moe Taurus. So I don't know exactly but I
• 56:26
  Speaker 2: feel maybe you know, our approach, John or he Felt,
• 56:31
  Speaker 2: mog is Keith Territory and Alan Perlman, you know, started
• 56:36
  Speaker 2: from a NASA scientist background set up ARP. In parallel,
• 56:41
  Speaker 2: there were three guys who were key figures in the
• 56:43
  Speaker 2: emergence of monophonic sense modular, and then monophonic and polyphonic.
• 56:48
  Speaker 2: You know. One was Don Buckler, one was Robert mog
• 56:52
  Speaker 2: and one was Alan Perlman. And this is on the
• 56:55
  Speaker 2: North American side. I'm not talking about the Japanese guys.
• 56:58
  Speaker 2: No disrespect to them so obviously. And some of this,
• 57:02
  Speaker 2: as you know, is you know, reps approaching you you
• 57:04
  Speaker 2: find the right person. You know. Tom Oberheim interestingly was
• 57:10
  Speaker 2: for a period the mog Rep in California. And there's
• 57:14
  Speaker 2: a funny story there, which is Tom Oberheim is a
• 57:17
  Speaker 2: UCLA student. He's less interested in academic study of engineering
• 57:22
  Speaker 2: and more interested in music. He gets commissioned by some
• 57:25
  Speaker 2: fellow students in a band called the United United States
• 57:27
  Speaker 2: of America to create a ring modulator. He got a clue,
• 57:32
  Speaker 2: but he finds a magazine called Electronics Magazine. He finds
• 57:35
  Speaker 2: the wireframes or the diagrams around them from a guy
• 57:39
  Speaker 2: called Harold Bode, who the German scientist who moves to America,
• 57:42
  Speaker 2: and he creates a ring modulator off his own bat
• 57:46
  Speaker 2: using what the schematic that's reproduced in the magazine by
• 57:50
  Speaker 2: Harold Bode. Bode ends up working with Robert mogu and
• 57:56
  Speaker 2: Oberheim realizes that there's a product and create here. He
• 58:01
  Speaker 2: gets commissioned by a couple of Hollywood soundtrack composers, one
• 58:04
  Speaker 2: particular one to do some ring modulator effects on the
• 58:10
  Speaker 2: Planet of the Ape soundtrack in nineteen seventies, so he
• 58:14
  Speaker 2: kind of goes, oh, there's a product here. So he
• 58:17
  Speaker 2: doesn't have the money to manufacture. He goes to Gibson
• 58:20
  Speaker 2: Maestro in Chicago, who owned the Gibson brand, and goes, look,
• 58:25
  Speaker 2: I've got this thing. I've clearly got a market for it.
• 58:28
  Speaker 2: So he does two things. Once, he licenses the ring
• 58:31
  Speaker 2: modulator to Gibson Maestro and therefore creates the Gibson Maestro
• 58:34
  Speaker 2: ring modulator, which becomes the famous thing that John uses
• 58:37
  Speaker 2: both people like chi Carea use as well. And parallel
• 58:40
  Speaker 2: to that, he approaches Alan Perlman and becomes the mog
• 58:44
  Speaker 2: rep for California, where he encounters an interest from Joe
• 58:49
  Speaker 2: z owenell funny aside, but Zowonal calls up up and goes,
• 58:54
  Speaker 2: I want to try out this arp to eight hundred
• 58:57
  Speaker 2: or two six hundred, and Oberheim shows up and Zoonol
• 59:02
  Speaker 2: plays it, and by all accounts he's really apathetic, not interested,
• 59:10
  Speaker 2: and oberheind thinks I've messed this up. Joe Zarwonld's not
• 59:13
  Speaker 2: gonna buy this. He said, all right, leave it with me,
• 59:16
  Speaker 2: leave it in my house. I'll call you in a
• 59:18
  Speaker 2: few days. Oberheim thinks Zaronl's just going to go. I'm
• 59:22
  Speaker 2: not interested. He says, Zamonal keeps it. And next time
• 59:27
  Speaker 2: I hear it, I hear it on whether reports Birdland
• 59:31
  Speaker 2: used in a way that I couldn't even believe. He
• 59:36
  Speaker 2: got sounds out of it that I couldn't even imagine.
• 59:39
  Speaker 2: So it just shows you the skill of these guys.
• 59:41
  Speaker 2: And he got Zowenil, who's a Vienna Conservatory classical musician,
• 59:46
  Speaker 2: lands up in America, Cannonball Adlie, you know, lands up
• 59:51
  Speaker 2: with Miles Davis obviously, and you know, you can just
• 59:55
  Speaker 2: see the musical facility of some of these guys. He
• 59:57
  Speaker 2: leaves the instrument with Zoonol. He thinks thinks it's a
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 2: pile of you know what that creates birdland out of it.
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah. That's what's so great about this whole period of
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 1: rock and roll, in particular from say mid sixties right
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 1: up through maybe like early nineties. The these musicians and
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 1: what they could do with instruments and do things that
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 1: you'd never thought and also producers and engineers and the
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 1: things that they were experimenting with during that period and
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 1: how they just push things forward. Paul Mayn you mentioned
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 1: and he said John once talked about in Passing how
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 1: proud he was at the time of the final track
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 1: on Burn, which is I think a two hundred.
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 2: Is that two? Yeah?
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 1: What would you say are John Lord's top three finest
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 1: moments with deep purple in the studio?
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 2: I would say in the studio probably Flight of the
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 2: rat from in Rock. There are two great sodos on
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 2: that album. There are many great keyboard pots on that album,
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 2: the intro to Childhood Time Heard Loving Man and and
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 2: Flight of the Brabulous. Thank you very much, Eric, and
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 2: pleasure to be on your show. And I noticed your
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 2: accuracy and everything you said, so congratulations on that as well.
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 2: Omen So I'd say that would be one second. One,
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 2: I might go, probably Burn from the Burn album, just
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 2: an explosive solo with a slightly different sound, because one
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 2: of the things I explore in the book is the
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 2: amplification and the way he uses Leslie's and Marshall's initially
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 2: and then cuts out the Leslie and goes Hammond straight
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 2: to Marshall. And then in seventy three when they do Burn,
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 2: he brings the Leslie back, so you hear a slightly
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 2: softer Leslie Hammond's sound because the Leslies are in there,
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 2: and it's a bit more airy than this very industrial
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 2: machine head sound, which is, you know, Hammond straight to Leslie.
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 2: So I'd say flight the rat, I'd say Burn, and
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 2: then I might go. There's a Lord's solo album before
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 2: I Forget, which I mentioned earlier, and there's a track
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 2: called Bach onto This which is the tagata fugu and
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 2: D minor where he takes the fugue and does a
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 2: fabulous extemporization on the fugue, which is Simon Phillips on drums,
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 2: Neil Murray on bass, and I think Bernie Marsden on guitar.
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 2: It's an instrumental track and it's probably John's arguably greatest
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 2: moment of Hammond playing on a solo album. Really yeah.
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 2: I mean there's gig on Sarah Band, which is beautiful,
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 2: and there's and Dante on the studio recording of the
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 2: concert Jo in twenty twelve. But if you listen to
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 2: bach Onto this from the Before I Forget album in
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 2: nineteen eighty two, there's a just absolutely explosive Lord solo,
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 2: which to me is amazing because that's him in a
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 2: solo environment where he can play what he wants. If
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 2: he wants to do fifty six bars, he can, If
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 2: he wants to do eight bars, he can. He just
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 2: totally unloads, and it's a brilliant combination of a blues
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 2: based organ sound on that track with a classical churchy
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 2: organ stand. He combines his blues and classical influences in
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 2: a single track by almost going here's a scale in
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 2: the blue scale, here's a blues here's a scale in
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 2: a classical scale. And he plays them both in parallel
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 2: later on, not in parallel adjacent to each other, so sequentially.
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 2: So you know, those three I think Flight, the rat
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 2: Burn and baff Onto this would be my three great
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 2: you know, instinctively the three great Lord moments.
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 1: He passed away in twenty in studio. Yeah, I had
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 1: to clarify that because.
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 2: You know, Eric the Highway Style solo and Made in Japan.
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 2: I mean, I mean, if you spoke to anybody like
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 2: Jordan Rudas or Derek Chernian or those guys, they'd go
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 2: on our chrotten. Lord on Highway Star and Made in
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 2: Japan is like he's a monster player on that track alone.
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 2: I mean, it's extraordinaries. And Stephen Wilson, obviously, as you know,
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 2: he has just done the remix of that. Various people
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 2: have done preceding remix versions. They're all great. Roger Glover
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 2: did one, and I think possibly Kevin Shirley may have
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 2: done one. And it's a great recording in itself. Even
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 2: if you listened to the nineteen seventy two recording, it
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 2: is fine, it's brilliant. But Stephen Wilson does a version
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 2: of a remix of it about seven months ago, which
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 2: is absolutely fabulous. And the Lord's solo and Maide in
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 2: Japan on the Maidi in Japan album on a Highway
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 2: Star is quite mind blowing.
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 1: He passed away in twenty twelve at the age of
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 1: seventy one. Quote from his longtime bandmate and drummer for
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 1: Deep Purple in Pace said quote his humor, his ability
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 1: to make people feel comfortable, his kindness. He was a
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 1: wonderful guy. When he left us, we didn't just lose
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 1: a really great rock and roll blues musician, We lost
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 1: a really good composer as well. His love of orchestral
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 1: music continued right to his last days. He found something
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 1: in later life that he really loved. Any found he
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 1: was very good at it. What was John Lord working
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 1: on those later years that Ian's referring to.
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean Ian obviously played on the original concerto
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 2: in sixty nine and then on the Contrito thirtieth anniversary
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 2: concert performance two concerts in ninety nine, including a live recording.
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 2: I think you know they were as you probably know,
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 2: and most listeners might might know. Purple fans know they
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 2: were related in so far as John was married to
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 2: one sister and Ian was married to the other sister.
• 1:05:36
  Speaker 2: Two twin sisters, Vicki and Jackie. Ian's marriage to Jackie
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 2: and John was married to Vicky, who sadly passed away
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 2: last year, so there was a close relationship there. They
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 2: lived always quite close to each other from the seventies onwards,
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 2: and I would say Ian knew him very well, obviously
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 2: on a family level because the kids were cousins. So
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 2: you know, you can imagine he knew John's solo material.
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 2: He probably heard it. I'm sure John gave me the CD.
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 2: He knew the concerto inside out, and he probably knew
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 2: a lot of the classical recordings from John recording them
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 2: over the course of the two thousands and pictured within
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 2: in nineteen ninety eight, et cetera. So I would say
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 2: he was probably relatively speaking for a band member, You're
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 2: probably quite intimately familiar with John's classical repertoire.
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 1: Find the bookdown Rock website at bookdown rock dot com.
• 1:06:28
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• 1:06:31
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• 1:06:33
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• 1:06:36
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• 1:06:44
  Speaker 1: Find your local independent bookstore, find out all the latest
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 1: hot rock book releases, and before you go, check out
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  Speaker 1: the book don Rock online store. Pick up some bookd
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 1: on rock merch it's all at booked on rock dot com.
• 1:06:58
  Speaker 1: The book John Lord, Before We Forget or Work and
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 1: eight Movements, So it's available for pre order now limited editions.
• 1:07:04
  Speaker 1: Where can people go to pre order this book of
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 1: this thank you?
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a website we've created called Before We Forget
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 2: dot Store. Stre The idea was to go to a
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 2: trade version during twenty twenty six and to start with
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 2: a version signed by myself and Paul Mann. So what
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 2: we've done is we've done an edition which is signed,
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 2: which is available globally from that website Before We Forget
• 1:07:31
  Speaker 2: Dot Store. The idea was to do really a version
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 2: that would become a nice collector's piece for fans, but
• 1:07:39
  Speaker 2: most importantly to not do something that was hyper expensive.
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 2: The reason for that is I've been in the limited
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 2: edition space. One of my past careers was as a
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 2: limited edition photographic book publishers. I was fortunate enough to
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 2: work with Muhammad Ali on The Goat Book, which is
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 2: as limited edition on Ali's life in two thousand and three.
• 1:07:58
  Speaker 2: I did a book in two thousand and six signed
• 1:08:01
  Speaker 2: by Pla, the soccer player, and then I did a
• 1:08:03
  Speaker 2: big book with a brilliant team called New York, which
• 1:08:09
  Speaker 2: we presented to Mayor Bloomberg at the time, which we
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 2: did in two thousand and seven or eight, which was
• 1:08:13
  Speaker 2: a big book photographic of assimilation on the history of New York.
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 2: And then just after that did actually one called Scoff
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 2: on the Wall with Gerald Scoff and Roger Waters signing it,
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 2: which was for a lithographic piece, a Prince of the Wall,
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 2: which is you know, owned in copyright by Roger and
• 1:08:30
  Speaker 2: by in the case of the illustration. So I didn't
• 1:08:33
  Speaker 2: want to go down that road of you know, here's
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 2: a thing for two grand I mean, one can do
• 1:08:37
  Speaker 2: that with the right audience. I wanted to do like
• 1:08:39
  Speaker 2: a forty five dollars thing that is a collectible but
• 1:08:43
  Speaker 2: is available to everybody. So the broadly speaking, you know,
• 1:08:49
  Speaker 2: a fan will go that's a really good collector's piece
• 1:08:51
  Speaker 2: at a perfectly reasonable price. That was that was my logic,
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 2: to be honest with You could have gone, you know,
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 2: two hundred dollars, but I just really didn't want to
• 1:08:57
  Speaker 2: do that.
• 1:08:58
  Speaker 1: Well, people can go and pre order a Hama any
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 1: units are available to two hundred and fifty.
• 1:09:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we're going to do just over two fifty. We've
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 2: hit two fifty and we're going to slightly expand, which
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 2: I think we've probably got a license to do, so
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 2: we'll do probably two seventy five in total. But we've
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 2: currently as we go on air today, well as we
• 1:09:16
  Speaker 2: broadcast today, we've probably got fifteen to eighteen units le
• 1:09:19
  Speaker 2: so people will need to move relatively quickly. But you know,
• 1:09:21
  Speaker 2: Paul and I have done the signing. I was with
• 1:09:23
  Speaker 2: him actually in Manchester in the UK this week and
• 1:09:26
  Speaker 2: we got all that done. So it's it's going to
• 1:09:28
  Speaker 2: look really, really fabulous. And you know, if I've done
• 1:09:31
  Speaker 2: one thing hopefully usefully, is give people a flavor of
• 1:09:33
  Speaker 2: the amounted depth and research we've done. I mean, really
• 1:09:36
  Speaker 2: dug in every musical corner and really done something which
• 1:09:40
  Speaker 2: is a testament to his musicality.
• 1:09:42
  Speaker 1: Absolutely a fantastic job. You gave me sample chapters of
• 1:09:45
  Speaker 1: it and just reading the promo material for it and
• 1:09:48
  Speaker 1: looking at the photos and it is an absolutely fantastic job.
• 1:09:52
  Speaker 1: How long did it take to put all of this together?
• 1:09:54
  Speaker 2: I would have said about two years. Beginning in I
• 1:09:59
  Speaker 2: would have said probably early early twenty four, so it
• 1:10:03
  Speaker 2: would be it'd been just dating in one's mind. I
• 1:10:05
  Speaker 2: mean funnily enough to think with any creative project, if
• 1:10:08
  Speaker 2: anyone's interested in doing a book number one, do it.
• 1:10:10
  Speaker 2: Just just do it, you know, don't worry about thinking
• 1:10:12
  Speaker 2: about it. But if you cogitate it in your head
• 1:10:15
  Speaker 2: a bit and form a structure in your head, it
• 1:10:18
  Speaker 2: actually means when you start, you can actually get there
• 1:10:20
  Speaker 2: fast because you don't need to worry about it or
• 1:10:22
  Speaker 2: think about it. So I had a lot of the
• 1:10:23
  Speaker 2: thinking in my head around the phases of his life,
• 1:10:27
  Speaker 2: and even years ago I remember doing a schematic of
• 1:10:30
  Speaker 2: what a Lord book might look like, which I subsequently
• 1:10:32
  Speaker 2: lost as usual, as often happens. But I had the
• 1:10:35
  Speaker 2: schematic in my head of these different phases and who
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 2: I would speak to to understand these phases. And obviously,
• 1:10:41
  Speaker 2: if you want to talk about jobs, childhood, you got
• 1:10:43
  Speaker 2: to talk to his brother Steve, et cetera. If you
• 1:10:45
  Speaker 2: want to talk about the classical stuff, you can't really
• 1:10:47
  Speaker 2: do it without talking to poor Man. So I kind
• 1:10:49
  Speaker 2: of bookended that, and then I would say two years.
• 1:10:53
  Speaker 2: But I would urge everybody, you know, if you want
• 1:10:55
  Speaker 2: to do a book, just do it. But the bulk
• 1:10:58
  Speaker 2: of the work goes in the proof reading and the
• 1:11:00
  Speaker 2: checking what you write is dwarf by the amount of
• 1:11:03
  Speaker 2: time you have to spend checking it. So you know,
• 1:11:06
  Speaker 2: get that process as methodical as you can, because books
• 1:11:10
  Speaker 2: with typos, you know, I come from that generation where
• 1:11:14
  Speaker 2: you know you might as well shoot yourself if you're
• 1:11:15
  Speaker 2: going to do a typo in a book. So you know,
• 1:11:17
  Speaker 2: I've tried to be as accurate as possible. I can't
• 1:11:18
  Speaker 2: say I've caught every single thing, but I think you know,
• 1:11:21
  Speaker 2: the big challenge with books like this is you know
• 1:11:23
  Speaker 2: R and I piano, you know three hundred B, small B,
• 1:11:27
  Speaker 2: big B. You know Gibson Maestro Ring Modulator r M
• 1:11:31
  Speaker 2: one A. Where does the hyphen go? Even the manuals
• 1:11:35
  Speaker 2: have inconsistencies. If you go through a polymode manual or
• 1:11:39
  Speaker 2: an R piano manual, you'll find even different acronyms and
• 1:11:44
  Speaker 2: different distinctions in different manuals. It's a minefield of risk.
• 1:11:48
  Speaker 2: So just and you've always got people quite rightly who
• 1:11:51
  Speaker 2: go you've made a mistake there. But what we've tried
• 1:11:54
  Speaker 2: to do is to weed out all of that stuff.
• 1:11:56
  Speaker 2: So I don't want to get into the micro but
• 1:11:58
  Speaker 2: you know, allow yourself enough type to check everything, because
• 1:12:00
  Speaker 2: fact checking is an important art not to be ignored.
• 1:12:03
  Speaker 1: Absolutely yes, and the time put in was well worth
• 1:12:07
  Speaker 1: it that it's a great a great read in there
• 1:12:10
  Speaker 1: and it's much deserved. The great John Lord Ovis Knakfi
• 1:12:14
  Speaker 1: thank you so much for being on the podcast to
• 1:12:16
  Speaker 1: talk about the book, to talk about John Lord. He is,
• 1:12:20
  Speaker 1: he was, He's a legend and his work needs to
• 1:12:22
  Speaker 1: be explored and appreciated as as it has been in
• 1:12:26
  Speaker 1: this book.
• 1:12:26
  Speaker 2: Thank you, Thank you very much, Eric, and pleasure to
• 1:12:29
  Speaker 2: be on your show. And I noticed your accuracy and
• 1:12:32
  Speaker 2: everything you said, so congratulations on that as well. That's it.
• 1:12:44
  Speaker 2: It's in the books.