Latest / Through the Sh#t with Jen McDowell / Shira | The Darkness is No Longer My Existence

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Shira | The Darkness is No Longer My Existence · Through the Sh#t with Jen McDowell

• speaker-0: But the biggest thing is what do I need? And for me, if it's I need them to not speak to me like this, and I've asked them to do this, and they're still doing it, I'm standing here choosing to interact with somebody who is wounding me. At what point will I choose myself? speaker-1: Welcome, I'm Jenn McDowell and you're listening to Through the Shit, a podcast for anyone going through the shit and the people who love them. In every episode, we'll hear a new story of loss, hope and resilience and how going through the shit led to something greater. So if you're in the shit now and feeling lost or alone, disconnected from your bad-ass self or in need of an ember of hope to keep putting one foot in front of the other, you're in the right place. So settle in, prepare to be moved and inspired, and welcome to The Shit. Welcome, everybody. You're listening to Through the Shit. I'm your host, Jen McDowell, and with me today is my good friend, Shira, who is an all-around badass. Shira, welcome. I'm so excited to have you here today. speaker-0: Thank you for having me. I'm very excited to be here. speaker-1: Yeah, so do you want to tell everybody how we met or should I tell them? speaker-0: you to go ahead and tell speaker-1: Okay. So, ⁓ Shira and I met through a mutual connection, ⁓ probably about a year ago at this point. And it was sort of through this, you know, when you're getting together with a group of friends and you say, ⁓ I met so-and-so for brunch and they were so amazing and you've got to meet them. And so it kind of came out of this, convergence of all of these amazing, you know, friend groups, you know, kind of cross-populating. And then at some point in time after that gathering, you and I started to connect one-on-one just because I was like, okay, you are an amazing badass and you have all kinds of lessons that I can learn from. So. speaker-0: and I felt the same way about you. speaker-1: So yeah, so over the course of the last year, we've gotten to know each other. You've shared a little bit of your story and your journey with me. And then when it kind of came time to find people who would go on this wild experiment with me, known as the podcast hosting, you immediately came to mind. And you are also a podcast per yourself. So I knew I would be in good hands having you as a guest. So super excited to have you here. speaker-0: appreciate that and I'm really, really excited for your new adventure. speaker-1: Thank you. Okay. So, Shira is going to tell us about the time that she spent being in the deep dark hole and how it taught her how to use her voice. And now Shira is using her voice in fun new ways because she is now a Swifty influencer, woman after my own heart. ⁓ And in Shira's work, she is known for her theories, deep connection with her audience, and her unapologetic authenticity. Before stepping into the creator space, she built a successful career in sales and marketing within behavioral health and senior living. Until 2024, that is, when she realized the corporate life was the shit, I hear that, and that she needed to go through but not stay in it. Now she connects with her Swifty community through joy, connection, and kindness. And you'd never know it by looking at her now, but Shira has been through some shit, and she's here to tell you all about it and how her life went from fucked up to fun. So Shira, welcome. speaker-0: Thank you so much. Yes, that is spot on. speaker-1: Yeah, absolutely. Well, before we get started, why don't we talk a little bit about this idea of through the shit? You know, it means different things to different people. Sometimes it's work shit. Sometimes it's life shit. Sometimes it's all the shit. Sometimes it's big shit. So as we're as we're teeing up your story, tell me what this idea of going through the shit means to you. speaker-0: Yeah, for me, ⁓ it started when I got sober at 19. I'm going to be celebrating 23 years of sobriety on the 9th of February, which is insane. And ⁓ I saw a post of this adorable girl, because they're all girls now that I'm in my 40s. who just got her first Broadway role as Glinda in Wicked, which is wild, but she said, I can pinpoint the day my life changed. And she went on to this like beautiful story of this person, she yada yada. And I was like, you know what I can too. And it was the day I got sober because the shit did not end that day, but it gave me the tools to walk through it. And After I got sober, I, a few years later, went to an eating disorder treatment. A few years after that, I left Los Angeles, where I got sober and I loved so much. I eventually broke my toxic romantic relationship cycle, and that gave me the strength and ability to break my toxic family cycle, which was probably one of the deepest ones. Most recently, I had to go through all these hormonal issues that brought up this intense depression completely out of nowhere. And now that my hormones have been balanced for about six months, I feel like I am through the shit. speaker-1: Oh my God. Well, hallelujah to that. Yeah. your story is really interesting, right? Because if I'm understanding you correctly, your shit kind of was the catalyst for more shit. so how long has this kind of period of shit been going on for you? So it started, well, I guess 20 years ago that you've been sober, kind of fill in some deep. speaker-0: Before then, I mean, I probably started drinking regularly at 14. And then I got sober five years later and I was drinking to medicate trauma. So forever, would say, you know, and it's been very interesting because what happens for me is if something comes up and it's painful, I immediately want to take it out, look at it and heal it. And it took me a very long time to understand that not everyone does that. Sometimes people will shove it under the rug. Sometimes people will drink it away or work it away or whatever. And I've done that, but at some point it becomes too painful. It's more painful to not take it out, look at it and heal it. And so I choose to do that. And because at this point I've done that so many times, it's a lot easier for me to do it now. speaker-1: Sure. Yeah. Okay. So was, has that always been your MO to take it out, look at it, heal it, or was this part of the going through the shit lesson that you've been learning? speaker-0: Yeah, you know, I think it's always been a thing. I'm a five planet Sagittarius. So the truth and being honest and being totally fucking real is my lifeblood. ⁓ My family, not so much. So when I was younger, I would bring the shit up. Be like, hey, this is not okay. This is happening. And I would get gaslit or manipulated or I got told I was being mean a lot for just telling the truth. ⁓ So I spent a lot of time trying to adjust and understand that the world actually isn't comfortable with the truth, so I shouldn't speak it. And I think it really took well into my 30s, because in my 20s, it was the early 2000s, which in my opinion was still like women should be seen and not heard. ⁓ And so it was like well into my 30s that I was like, actually like I don't care if I make you uncomfortable. I need to be comfortable. And if I keep my mouth shut, I'm uncomfortable and you're uncomfortable, but I have to live in this body. speaker-1: Mm-hmm. Okay. Okay. There is so much here to unpack. ⁓ All right. So, for purposes of today, Through the Shit is, one, a catalyst to More Shit, but, two, it's also this process of uncontorting, if that's a word, uncontorting yourself from a pretzel, right? You found yourself in a situation that you were kind of twisting yourself to be something else. speaker-0: Ha ha. speaker-1: Yes. ⁓ And so this process of going through the shit has allowed you to sort of, don't know, be a pretzel rod, not a pretzel. Yeah. Part of the analogy is, that's one I've got at this point. Yeah. Okay. And so ultimately, it's about really stepping into yourself, using your voice, being comfortable in your own skin, because there's a lot to unpack there. ⁓ Anything else that's important to know as we're framing up this idea of through the shit? speaker-0: I I think I really, I don't think so. Cause I think when I got sober, I got sober through a 12 step program that I'm still a part of. And there was a lot of messaging that I still hear 23 fucking years later of like, I got sober and then it was rainbows and puppies and now everything's wonderful. And that didn't happen for me. And I know that didn't happen for that person. So when other people come in and they're new and their life doesn't turn into rainbows and puppies, then they think they're doing it wrong. just because you're healing doesn't mean it's going to be rainbows and puppies. And also, it doesn't mean it's going to be awful all the time. I mean, think that everything is temporary. And I think when we're in the deepest, darkest pain, we're like, it's temporary, it's temporary, it's temporary. But when we're thriving, unfortunately, that's temporary too. speaker-1: because speaker-0: It's just life. And what I often do is when I'm in the darkest part, I try to remember the last time I was happy because that reminds me that that happened and went away, but it will come back. speaker-1: Mm. Mm-hmm. Okay. All right. So let's rewind the clock a little bit, if we will. Um, spend a little bit of time in this shit. So you're 19 when you decide to get sober. Yep. Tell me a little bit about, that moment or what was happening in your life in that moment where you're like, fuck. I got to... speaker-0: Yeah. So I was drinking like a college kid in high school and I didn't realize that. That was just normal to me. ⁓ That changed drastically when I went to college because that meant now I can drink like a college kid. ⁓ I think like maybe I had blacked out once or twice in high school or maybe it was like kind of hazy. ⁓ In college, it became every day very quickly. And to give you some context, like February, it was the first month back to school after my first semester in college. I got treatment. ⁓ So it was fast. ⁓ would look at my, remember like getting ready to go out at night, going to a party, whatever, and like looking myself in the mirror and being like, please don't black out. And ⁓ I remember trying, maybe if I drink this, maybe if I stopped drinking this, maybe if I drink beer and I don't drink, you know, tequila, like I was trying to do everything and never once did it occur to me that maybe alcohol in general was the problem. ⁓ So it was a course of, there were weekends. It was, ⁓ had my roommate sit me down, who I loved. We got paired up with this. It was just a beautiful match made in heaven. And she sat me down and said, I cannot live with you next year because this can't do this. ⁓ And then there was ⁓ like two parties and the final one ended with me. ⁓ I was completely blacked out and I was vomiting blood. Wow. my friends, thankfully, thankfully throughout everything my whole life, I've had incredible friends who were there to grab me from the edge. And I had probably like five people get in the car, take me to the ER and stay with me all night. And I, when I came out of it, I was told I had a bleeding ulcer at 19 from my alcoholism and I played it down, you know, and I didn't think, I did everything that we do as alcoholics. And finally, ⁓ I called one of my parents and I told them what happened and I was hoping they would minimize because they like to minimize with me. And so I called hoping it would be like, that's okay, that's what happens in college. And instead it was, I'm actually concerned something's wrong. Do you need help? And in my head, it was absolutely not, but what came out of my mouth was yes. And then I went to treatment like a week later. speaker-1: Mm-hmm. Something in your subconscious must have, you know, wow. Whoo. Yeah. Holy moly goosebumps. Okay. ⁓ So you went to rehab and from there you said the next sort of thing was unraveling toxic relationships. So from the time that you went to rehab... speaker-0: you Yep. speaker-1: to when you started to have this awareness of, there's this other thing in my life I need to change. How long was that span of time between those two things happening? speaker-0: So before that was actually my eating disorder. So I was about four years sober and back in treatment. that was very bizarre. A lot of the women in treatment with me were getting sober. It was kind of like a dual thing for them. So it was very bizarre to be four years sober. speaker-1: ⁓ that's right, the eating disorder. speaker-0: surrounded by a bunch of women who are working on sobriety and their eating disorder. this, again, this was something that I was told, you know, chronic relapse is a thing. Like, this is not something that people heal from. And I'd already been sober for four years, and I got sober as a child. And I left that treatment center and didn't, again, like did I did not have an easy, I had a doctor put me on a medication that was also intentionally to help me gain weight and then never took me off. So I gained a bunch of weight after treatment. ⁓ and then I thought, well, this is just what my body's supposed to look like. And I spent all this time, like grappling with that before I got off the medication and balanced back out to actually what my body's supposed to look like. ⁓ but I didn't. relapse. that's, I feel like literally the cycle breaking is with me. Like everything that my family and ancestors have gone through, like it ends here. Because most people don't get to get sober the first time. Most people don't recover from an eating disorder the first time. So to survive these things, already made it extremely unique on my end. And then from there, I think it was like 2007 that I went to treatment for my eating disorder. then toxic relationships, man. So that was my norm. I was raised in a toxic relationship. So being told that that's what love is, how would I have any idea that somebody being unkind to me or minimizing or gaslighting me is not love. ⁓ So that took a very long time. ⁓ I don't think I broke that cycle until maybe 2013. speaker-1: And what about the family? When did that start? speaker-0: So that happened when I met my husband. I met my husband in 2015 ⁓ after doing a lot, lot, a lot, a lot of work ⁓ on my toxic relationship dynamics and what I was accepting and what was OK and what was not OK. ⁓ And I met him, and he started showing me examples of what love looks like. And so for a while it was like, ⁓ this is what I should have been experiencing in romantic partnerships and all of that. And then it slowly became like, this is how everyone should treat me who says they love me. Why have I never experienced this before until 2015? Like, what's that about? And then I met his family. And his family is incredibly kind and loving and honest and straightforward. And like, I again was like, what is this whole thing going on over here? And that really showed me that there are families who genuinely love each other and treat each other with kindness and respect. And the bar started getting raised. And that ⁓ meant that I had to ⁓ go no contact with a sibling and one of my parents. Wow. And that was in 2018. speaker-1: My goodness. OK. Thank you, first off, for kind of telling all of that. Yeah. What was coming up for me was this idea of inward outward type of thing. So you had all of this work that you had to do on yourself first. And the stronger you got, more it felt like a compulsion almost. to do some of that external work as well. ⁓ And you said, you know, that you, when you met your husband, like, it was kind of eye-opening because you didn't really know that there was another way of being in a relationship. ⁓ And so all of this work kind of just like raised the bar. It's kind like building up your foundation almost. So it's like, birth with yourself, your internal work, your relationship with. alcohol, your relationship with food, ⁓ and then it's your relationships with intimate partners, and then it's your relationships with other people, right? So it's kind of like this iterative building process that needs to be really applying for you. now, do you... Okay, so that lands with you. How do you see that now resonating or applying with the hormonal stuff? Because it's just like one hit after another, and is it that... When you find yourself in the shit of the situation, you say, okay, I've done that, I can do this now. Like, what goes through your mind? speaker-0: Yeah, so with the hormonal stuff, so in addition to that, I also have an autoimmune disorder that was not diagnosed until 2022 that I have had my whole life. So there is a dynamic between me and doctors that is similar to with me and my family where either ⁓ I am parentified and because I know more about my stuff, they will just write me a script of whatever I need or whatever. They just bow down and let me, or I'm crazy and anxious and they know better and I just need to stop asking for tests or treatment or things like that. ⁓ When I look back, I definitely get very frustrated with the medical system and the way they treat women. I had asked to have my hormones tested at least three times. And I was told every single time, that's not a thing, which I absolutely, absolutely know is a thing, right? But here's the deal. When you are struggling with depression, you don't have fight, right? Like I have this, like me, at like normal range is just this like raging fire and not anger, just like power, just like just like passion. Yes, like just this huge fire. But when I am depressed or fighting for my life in some capacity, I am just a tiny little pilot light. And if nobody is going to... help me or give me what I ask, I just stay this tiny flickering thing that's just barely trying to stay on and stay lit. ⁓ And so I didn't have the fight. If I went to a doctor today and said, I want you to test my hormones, I would raise hell if they said that's not a thing. But I didn't have the energy to do that. And I didn't have the fight to do that. And I think that's so important for women because A, you don't develop a mental illness in your late 30s. probably one percent, I'm not going to say never, but it's probably like a one percent thing. As someone who worked in mental health, mental health appears between late teens and twenties. If you are in your late thirties and you just magically have depression, it's probably your hormones. And the problem is the medical system will deflect. And the weirdest thing about this is there's test after test and study after study saying young women are going through puberty much faster because of all the hormones in our food. But the idea that women in their late 30s are jumping into early menopause because of all the hormones in our food is just completely baffling. I mean, it makes absolute sense to me, but the medical community completely writes that off. So that, it's very hard for me when I'm in my place of just being this wall of fire to look back and feel like. why didn't they help me and wanting to just go in and kick the door down and go off right now, you know? ⁓ But I have to stand in the place of, I'm okay today, and I survived it. Because if I hold on to the resentment towards my family, towards the medical system, like, then I, I, I wither back down into that pilot light. speaker-1: Yeah. I want to come back to the pilot light in just a second. But I think I want to go back to something else that you said a moment ago around ⁓ you didn't have the fight in you. And I don't know if I necessarily agree with that ⁓ because of the fact that you have gotten to where you are. Right. So there must have been something. speaker-0: Yes, that. speaker-1: motivated you to keep fighting, to say when you see, I have this choice. I need to pick up the mantle and do this next fight. So what kept you fighting every day? speaker-0: So I've had, ⁓ as I look back now, I am very confident. I was never diagnosed with PMDD. So I would have these moments of depression and things like that. I have ⁓ PTSD and anxiety and both of those diagnoses are mine. Like I feel that in my body, that lands, that resonates. Thankfully, depression is not mine. That is not a diagnosis that fits me. That is not a diagnosis that I try on and I'm like, yep, nailed it. So when I get depressed, it feels like there's someone else living in my mind and trying to take over. and I have to sit with that thing and ride it out until it leaves. And it's very hard to do that. ⁓ But knowing this isn't mine and something will happen to get it out of here was a big motivator. this isn't, you know, one thing about going through so much shit is I can honestly say this is not what I fucking fought for. Like I didn't crawl to this place in my life to be miserable and let fucking hormones take me out. speaker-1: Yeah. Yeah, it's almost like ⁓ this. Like, no, this is not happening. speaker-0: ⁓ Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And honestly, like, feel like I've said this a few times, like, it feels like spite is what has gotten me, right? To be like, I've been through all this. This is the bullshit that's gonna take me. No. speaker-1: Mmm. No fucking not. Right? No fucking way. All right. So ⁓ going back to this idea, like, the depression, that's someone else. That's someone else trying to take over. So how do you resource yourself when you are in those moments or when you were in those moments? What resources were helpful to you? speaker-0: I, so I'm still in 12 step program. have a sponsor in 12 step program. She's been my sponsor for God, like over 10 years now. ⁓ So she is very helpful. I am very open and honest with her. ⁓ My husband is very supportive and helpful. ⁓ There were times that he would literally like come home from work just to like be with me when I was having like a hard day. Like, I mean, it was literally like we were going through this. ⁓ and friends, you know? And then I started following paths of resources that people, you people are like, why don't you try this thing or why don't you try this? And I, and again, I'm the person that's like, okay, maybe this will help. ⁓ this didn't help. Okay, well, maybe this will help. I don't stop fighting. And you're right, like even if it's just that tiny little pilot light, like the fire is still there, you know? And so it was, and... even getting on hormone, like again, which infuriates me, is I went to my doctor for a physical pain that I was going through. And he was like, maybe this will be a temporary fix. And then I started the hormones and I literally woke up the next day and I turned to my husband and I said, I don't think anything bad's gonna happen today. And he's like, who are you? speaker-1: No, no, no, no. speaker-0: So it was like, I got myself back in like less than 12 hours. speaker-1: If only hormones were a magic pill for everybody in that way. Yes. The world would wish they were. ⁓ So I think that leads to another question in terms of a lot of people that I talk to talk about coming out of the shit as this subtle glimmer. And then it goes away. And then it comes back. And then it goes away. And then comes back for a little longer. So like. Was that the moment for you when you woke up and you said to your husband, I don't think anything bad's gonna happen? Like when did you start to feel like you were coming out of this shit? speaker-0: So I think it was June that I started my hormones. So it's only been like six-ish months. ⁓ So it's been a very small chunk of time. ⁓ I'm in therapy. I was in therapy. I've been in therapy ⁓ on and off since I was five. ⁓ And my therapist now is fantastic. And he talks to me a lot about, I always worry about the other shoe is going to drop. and how things have been really good for a while, so I really have to lean into it. And I literally was like, bro, if my body starts metabolizing this differently, the shoe will drop. Like, let's be real, I am who I am right now because the cocktail is perfect. The cocktail will shift. The bottom will fall out. And that's what's really hard is, is I have to be so grateful for today because I don't know when the bottom's gonna fall out and it very likely will and I very likely will need a med adjustment because I'm metabolizing it differently or something like that. so trying to find the gratitude for the good days, there are still some bad days. Like I will still have like some, think PMDD stuff come up, but those are a lot easier now. And I, again, am able to see them as temporary, ⁓ because it generally is just a day instead of months. ⁓ But it's scary. with my whole life story, right, it's very hard to believe that things will stay good. And it's hard for me to relax in the good. ⁓ So that has been a huge challenge for me to be like, ⁓ my gosh, everything is not just okay, but it's actually really awesome right now and I'm so scared I'm gonna lose it, but I can be scared and grateful at the same time. speaker-1: Yep. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I definitely get that. ⁓ I remember wanting to sort of like cling on to it, know, till my fingernails were bloody, right? Like, learning this lesson of impermanence. ⁓ Because you've been through so much funkiness, you just don't think you can handle one more thing. Yeah. ⁓ And then you find yourself back in the midst of it again, and you're in the shit. So like... How did you sort of go from this awareness of impermanence to having it ingrained in you? Because it feels like it's really central and like central to who you are now. like, tell me about that process of like having it as an initial awareness to embodying it. speaker-0: think it became, I think that happened with the family stuff. Because if I'm going to... you know, if anyone has ever gone no contact, it's not the first decision. And people are so manipulative about like, well, that's your parent. Like, well, I'm their kid. Like, they should respect me. Like, what are you talking about? They're the ones who are responsible for their, like, I mean, come on now. It's wild. So I think when I started even considering no contact, I had to... drastically accept who my parents are. I had to drastically accept who everyone in my family was. And I had to stop expecting they would change or show up differently. If I say it differently, if I put it in an email instead of say it on the phone, like they are who they are. And if I can get to a place of completely wholeheartedly accepting them for who they are. then I decide, do they get access to me? And that is a different layer of heart. ⁓ And then if I tell them that they cannot have access to me if they do this, this, and this, and they do those things, then I have to act on it. I mean, it's this whole long process. so for me, I think the radical acceptance and the impermanence kind of come together because it's just this thing of speaker-1: Mm. speaker-0: this is how it is. ⁓ And I don't get to change the fact that my hormones are a little off and I feel a little bit depressed today. There's nothing I can do about that. I can't change how my parent chooses to treat me on a daily basis. But I can change if I just flip out the day I'm depressed and melt down completely, or if I choose to remind myself that it's impermanent. Right? And I do get to change. how my parent talks to me in removing myself from the equation. speaker-1: Yeah. Wow. Yeah, so mean, for you, it sounds like it's been an iterative process, right? Yeah, definitely. First, you have to come to accept what is. And I imagine that your journey with sobriety was a big part of that, because I think that we didn't talk much about your 12-step program, but I know some programs have that sort of acceptance for what is. Letting go of expectations. as part of that acceptance. Moving on to, ⁓ OK, so what ground rules do I want to set for myself? Yeah. And holding firm to those, right? That access piece that we were talking about. And then acting and holding firm on those boundaries is essentially what we're talking about, irrespective of how everything else is going in a given day, irrespective of if it's a good hormone day or a bad hormone day or whatever. And so. What would you tell someone who's maybe in that situation now trying to figure out how to navigate those boundaries with anyone? Friend. I was talking with a client earlier about friendships, relationships, family. Like, what do you tell someone who's in this place of like, I'm not getting what I need from this relationship? ⁓ my efforts up to this point have been unsuccessful. speaker-0: Yeah. The first, the very, very, very first step I always tell people is to start just observing. Try to emotionally step back because we get so sucked into like, I can't believe they said that. Why would they say that? And what are they doing and blah, blah, blah. And just like back up of like, they just called me a name. How does that feel for me? ⁓ that doesn't feel good. Have I asked them to not do this before? speaker-1: You realize, sorry to interrupt, this is the take it out, look at it, heal it. This is your classic pattern showing up. speaker-0: Exactly. So I identify. And then what do I need in this situation? So none of this is going to happen. So my trauma responses freeze. So I will never in real time be like, hey, that's not OK. And that was a huge thing I had to accept. I have to come back after I've realized it's not OK, and I'm ready to talk about it. And I have to give myself that permission. I go, so yeah, it's like, how do I feel? What would I have done differently? But the biggest thing is what do I need? And for me, if it's, need them to not speak to me like this, and I've asked them to do this, and they're still doing it, I'm standing here choosing to interact with somebody who is wounding me. At what point will I choose myself? speaker-1: Yeah. Yeah. So at what point was there a straw that broke the camel's back? Was there a point in which you said, OK, I'm choosing myself now? speaker-0: Yeah, over and over. Oh, okay. speaker-1: Repeatedly. took a couple of goes before you were like, I'm gonna... speaker-0: I mean, I that happened with sobriety. ⁓ With my eating disorder, it was another medical intervention. It was a doctor who brought me in and was like, am worried you're going to have heart failure. It's time. Off to treatment you go. ⁓ With my romantic stuff, I just kept getting in these toxic, toxic, toxic relationships. it was like, again, it was like, OK, I got sober. I got through an eating disorder. why this isn't how I want to spend my life. I don't want to be fighting with people every day and have my energy just sucked out of me, you know? And so I, I, that was the straw that broke that. And then I meet my husband and I'm in this like loving, caring relationship. And I meet his family who are these loving, caring humans. And I'm like, wait, I was actually like raised by people who are toxic and sucking the energy out of me. Like this is also not okay. You know, some of them were big events, but a lot of them were like the big event happened and it took me a couple of months to digest it and then be like, you know what? Done. When I cut off my parent, it had been a year of horrible, horrible stuff. And it was simply an email that they sent me with a couple of pictures of me as a kid saying, you were happy. You had a wonderful chat. Look at your smiling in every single one of these pictures. And I'm like, speaker-1: Yeah. speaker-0: because you're told to smile, and I'm sure when you're a little kid, and I just responded, you know what, I'm Like I'm done. And that was all it took. for me, again, I won't react in the moment. So the bottom would come and go, and I would have to process it before I would completely walk away. speaker-1: Yeah. I think that it will resonate with a lot of people, myself included. so what I'm hearing you say, though, is that just because you can't react in the moment or don't for some reason because that trauma response is triggered and you're like, that doesn't mean you can't take action going forward, right? You can change things. It doesn't always have to be in the moment. There's always a way to course correct. speaker-0: Yes. And I think a lot of toxic people use that to their advantage, right? Well, why didn't you bring it up when I said it? Why are you bringing this up three weeks later? Like, because I fucking am. Are we talking about this or not? I mean, it's just, it's, it became so hard for me to give myself permission. I can bring something up a year and a half later. I don't care. If I'm upset about it now and I've sat with it and I've looked at it and it's time to talk, it's time to talk. speaker-1: Yeah. speaker-0: And I have to take up that space and give that to myself because it's not for the other person. Nine times out of 10, the other person's not gonna change. But I have to say it for myself. speaker-1: Yeah, although having been on the receiving end of that sometimes, sometimes I do think like, why didn't you say something sooner, right? Because you've been carrying this around for a while. That's one of the things that I've had to learn is like, because I couldn't, because I didn't. Like it's here now, we can address it now. And I think what I'm hearing you say is that how the person responds when you bring it up is an important part of like. Yeah. how you move forward through it or what speaker-0: Absolutely, because if someone says to you, ⁓ my gosh, I had no idea. Let's talk about it. You know, I wish you'd said something sooner and I'm happy to change. Like, hell yeah. That's somebody who gets to stay in my orbit. If it's, well, why didn't you bring this up a week ago? Why are you bringing this up now? Come on, I was just kidding. Like, no. Like, access denied. ⁓ speaker-1: Yeah. Yeah. OK, so we've been kind of in the shit for a while here, kind of bouncing back and forth, lessons learned, things like that. So ⁓ let's move forward a little bit more. So you are sort of freshly out of the latest shit, I think, if you will. And so from the seat that you're sitting in now, looking back, how do you see all of these experiences really propelling you forward? speaker-0: I love that. Well, you know, again, I think I think I was I'm here to break cycles ⁓ and I'm here to really just like it ends with me, you know, in every sense of the word. so there were lots of cycles that needed to be broken. ⁓ And right now I feel like I'm in a place that I have broken them and there may be more. mean, again, bottom falling out. ⁓ speaker-1: But I'm proud, always. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. speaker-0: Yes, exactly. I will never believe I'm done healing at any point. But I do get to enjoy the good periods. And right now is a very good period. And it has been since I started the hormones. And I've moved into this Swifty content creation bubble, which has just been so fun. And it's honestly like the darker the world gets, like the brighter I make my bubble. And it's just been this great and I don't want to get too into all of it, but I do feel like joy is the biggest resistance, right? Like just getting in the anger and getting in the muck is like just matching someone's energy and you don't want to match their energy. Like just fucking fly above that shit, you know? And that's where I feel like I'm at. right now and this all started for me ⁓ when I was in the depression. I had a different therapist I was working with and they asked me, well, what do you do for fun? Like, where do you find joy? And I literally was like, joy is not for me. I don't get to have that. Baseline is my dream. I don't want to be depressed or so anxious I can't leave my hat. Like joy is what other people get to have who didn't live the life I lived. And I was convinced of that. ⁓ And it was around that same time that ⁓ the Arras tour was happening. And I'd been listening to Taylor Swift, I'd gotten really sucked into her Midnight's album because it was like the most honest truth telling I'd ever heard and I was blown away. And then she wrote the Tortured Poets Department and if you know, you know, that's basically like her diary in the album, which is very honest. ⁓ But I was very intrigued by the music and then because I'm listening to her music much more and getting very sucked into her discography, my algorithm starts to change. And it's like the world is ending, the world is ending, little girls in glitter. The world is ending. know, Taylor's popping out of a stage in this glittery bodysuit and everyone's so happy. like, I mean, was just these little like, it was like the opposite. It was like doom scrolling, but getting these tiny little like fun, joy, like it exists. And then it was months after that that we magically got tickets to go see her. And at some point, So we saw her ⁓ in New Orleans in October of 2024, and there were points that it was literally like, I am holding on just so I can see Taylor. It was like she was my beacon, you know, and like this little light. And her Tortured Poets Department album came out, and it's all about darkness and depression and deep, deep stuff. And I felt so seen in that album. And it's so funny to me because so people either like love it or hate it they don't hate it. And but they hate it like, ⁓ I can't listen to that. You know, and for me, it's like a warm, it's like, she gets me, you know, it's very like, it was very healing for me to have that album. And then she moved on to this poppy fun glitzy showgirl album. And I also feel like I'm now in that period of the joy and the glitter and the boas and the pop music. And it's just been this very healing thing to feel like I'm kind of going alongside with what she's been through in a way. mean, music has always been very healing for me in big ways, but her stuff just like really resonates with me. And so I started... When she announced her new album, started posting regularly and I started having, you know, more and more people. I realized, you know, and even now, like people are like, everyone has to speak up about how you feel and everything's going on in the world and all the politics and all the things. And you guys, people need joy so badly. And I'm just trying to carve out like a tiny little corner on the internet where it's safe to be excited about glitter and like, what does this album color mean? And speaker-1: like. speaker-0: all this fun stuff. Like my whole point at this time is to hold on to that joy that I found and share it with as many people as possible because we desperately need it right now. speaker-1: Yeah. Yeah, I mean, think that's a great summation of some of the lessons that you've learned along the way. I mean, I was hearing this idea of, you know, tending to that pilot light. Don't let your pilot light go out. Be grateful for it today. Joy is the biggest resistance. Hold on to it. Share it. And perhaps most importantly, give yourself permission to have it and experience it. Curate the world you want to see. That came up in a different episode around like, ⁓ creating spaces, going from like a consumer to creating spaces, a having the opportunity. ⁓ Any other lessons that you feel like are worth sharing at this point? speaker-0: You know, I feel like... When I got sober, I felt like it was important to kind of get through the trenches and then turn back around and help other people through the trenches. And that is very important. But I let it take up more of my life than it should have because I stayed in the trenches and I never walked out of them and into the light. And now I feel like I can stand in the light and enjoy the light, I can come back to the trenches and maybe come help out a couple people and then I can run back to the light where I live. I no longer live in the either in the trenches or in the darkness or on the edge of either one. I live in this light and this joy and I can I can go back to what feels safe enough to try and help people but it isn't my whole existence anymore. The joy and the sparkle and the glitter is my whole existence now. And that's what I fought like hell for, and that's what I deserve, and that's what everybody deserves these days. speaker-1: Darkness is no longer my existence, no longer calling me, right? Okay, anything you do differently. speaker-0: Yes, yes. My, you know, my biggest regrets are always that I didn't fight for myself harder. ⁓ like I said, like with the doctors and you know, all the things, but it, also happened how it was supposed to, like, I'm a big believer in I'm where I'm supposed to be. And I went through what I went through to be where I am. And I, you know, it, when you look at like the really dark stuff, it's hard to look at that and be like, well, it was supposed to happen. You know, like that doesn't feel good, but. Again, if I'm here to break the cycles, I have a lot of shit I have to go through. Like that's a heavy burden. And that's not an easy thing to do. So yes, I mean, there's definitely regrets, but if I had done things differently, I don't know that I would be where I am today. speaker-1: Yeah, fair point. So final question. Someone out there may be going through the shit. What do you tell them? speaker-0: It's temporary. speaker-1: Hang on. Yeah. Okay. Well, Shira, I really enjoyed being here with you today. Thank you so much for telling me your shit and all of the lessons you learned from it. Listeners, thanks for listening and we'll see you all on the flip side. That's it for this episode of Through the Shit. Thanks for listening. If you liked this podcast, like, share, and subscribe, and maybe send it to someone who needs a boost because they're going through the shit. While you're at it, tell them how important they are to you. If you have a story of shit to share or you're in the shit now, I'd love to hear from you. Email me at throughtheshittpodcasts.gmail.com or go to our website at throughtheshitt.com. I'll see you on the flip side.