Latest / Pit Talk / The stories that will define the rest of the season: Dutch GP Preview

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The stories that will define the rest of the season: Dutch GP Preview · Pit Talk

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to Pit Talk, a Fox Sports and
• 0:02
  Speaker 1: Speed Cafe Formula one podcast. On today's episode, we look
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: ahead to the second part of the Formula One season,
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: starting with the return of the championship with this weekend's
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: Dutch Grand Prix. My name is Michael Lomonado, motorsport writer
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: for Fox Sports Australia. It's great to have your company
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: and the company of my co host from Speed Cafe.
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: He's been humming the tune of super Max all week.
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: It's Matt Kosh.
• 0:27
  Speaker 2: I do know far more of the lyrics than I
• 0:29
  Speaker 2: care to admit to that one.
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: Only so many lyrics.
• 0:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah, at that end, I didn't the same group? Do
• 0:37
  Speaker 2: Lando the Lion?
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: Yes? I think that's right. Yes, I know. It's not
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: a one hit wonder You can't call.
• 0:42
  Speaker 2: Them no, that's even get them two hits as a stretch.
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: Oh you remember the name. That's more than you can
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: for most one hit wonder band.
• 0:53
  Speaker 2: But it's like that. Do you remember DJ Visage. I'm
• 0:55
  Speaker 2: winding the clock back here to the late nineties DJ
• 0:58
  Speaker 2: Visage producder a track that's title was Formula and pretty
• 1:04
  Speaker 2: much it was a Ferrari engineoiss uh as sort of
• 1:08
  Speaker 2: the beat to it though, Schumacher, Schumacher is averted my Stu.
• 1:16
  Speaker 2: That is, that's why I learned to speak German.
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: Oh, you know a couple of track.
• 1:21
  Speaker 2: I mean, it's all I can speak in German.
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's better than most, So that's okay, Michael Schumacher. Anyways,
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: that's technically German. I guess if he's a German driver,
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: then those words counters German.
• 1:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, vocabulary double my vocabulary.
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: Then well it will be a week of supermax because
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: the Dutch Grand Prix atmosphere is not really like any
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: other Grand Prix on the calendar. It is more of
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: a rave than a race.
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: Was it?
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: Last year they had andre Reer on the grid doing
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: the anthem before that was really.
• 1:53
  Speaker 2: It was because Andrew, I'm getting to that station of life.
• 1:57
  Speaker 2: He's right up my alien. In terms of musical prowess,
• 2:02
  Speaker 2: I do. I do get a bit of Spotify going
• 2:04
  Speaker 2: and crank on a bit of Andreria and you know,
• 2:07
  Speaker 2: cooking dinner and whatever. And I was gutted. I was
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: meant to be there last year my wife gave birth,
• 2:11
  Speaker 2: so I missed it.
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: What a pity, Matt, Yeah.
• 2:14
  Speaker 2: Really considerate timing, but yeah, you know, you just a
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: group of Dutch spectators just absolutely raving out to some violin.
• 2:25
  Speaker 2: I mean, it's just everything you need to know about
• 2:28
  Speaker 2: the Netherlands in one little, one little three minute piece.
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so it'll be it'll be a lot to top
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: that this year, but I'm sure the Dutch Grand Prix
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: organizers will find a way. It's of course going to
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: be Maxi Staffan's two hundred Grand Prix as well, so
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: extra reason to celebrate. But we don't know Matt whether
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: or not he's going to win this, whether he's perfect
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: record of his home race will continue. That's one of
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: many things I think to look forward to obviously in
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: the immediate future. But for the second half of the
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: season is well generally just the form guide and that's
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: what we're looking forward to in this episode of Pit Talk,
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: is what we're anticipating for the last ten races of
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: the season. They're going to come at us very quickly.
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: Two sets of double headers, two sets of triple headers
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: that it'll all be.
• 3:09
  Speaker 2: Over, and the other mid season break. Don't forget the
• 3:12
  Speaker 2: other mid season break.
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: Yes, well that's youd. Look, that's what I'm looking forward
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: to most because so much there's so much erasing being
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: packed into such a small amount of time that we're
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: going to need it just to be able to get
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: through that second part of this second part of the year.
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: The falls open to you, Matt, to kick us off.
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: What are you looking forward to anticipating in this second
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: part of the season.
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: It's interesting you mentioned Max's record at zan for three races,
• 3:38
  Speaker 2: three race wins thus far. There's only one driver in
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: form of on history it's been more successful there, and
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: that's Jim Clark. He won sixty two, sixty three, sixty four,
• 3:46
  Speaker 2: sixty six off my head.
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: That's why they wrote the song super Gym.
• 3:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, that's exactly what Jim Clark really is. Jackie
• 3:58
  Speaker 2: Stewart's got a song about him, probably Williams Supreme. We've
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: got super Max. Lando's got a song anyway, if you're
• 4:03
  Speaker 2: recording artists out there, there's a lot of cash in
• 4:07
  Speaker 2: the Formula one paddic It's just it's untapped at this point.
• 4:12
  Speaker 2: But I think this weekend, going into Zambo, it's going
• 4:15
  Speaker 2: to be a really interesting toe in the water for
• 4:17
  Speaker 2: how the second half of the season is going to go.
• 4:20
  Speaker 2: Because Zamvor historically has been you know it's a stronghold
• 4:24
  Speaker 2: of Max hast happened really, you know, it's it's his
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: home event. He gets a little bit of that Nigel
• 4:28
  Speaker 2: Mansil prowess about him. It's just something about that event
• 4:31
  Speaker 2: that lifts him. But he's never had this sort of
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: challenge really. Okay, there's been a couple of closer years
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: than what we saw last year, but you can't really
• 4:42
  Speaker 2: say that Red Bull and Max must happened going to
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: the Dutch Grand Prix as runaway favorites and you could
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: this time last year. So you've got McLaren's right there.
• 4:50
  Speaker 2: Mercedes have won three of the last four races. Ferrari
• 4:53
  Speaker 2: won two races this year as well, so although they've
• 4:54
  Speaker 2: been a little bit inconsistent, you can't rule them out
• 4:59
  Speaker 2: the The only person that you can really rule out
• 5:02
  Speaker 2: in my mind is ser Jo Perez. You know. Otherwise
• 5:05
  Speaker 2: we're going into this with seven drivers that could feasibly
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: win this Grand Prix and as a result, all I'm
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: going to get trying to predict the second half of
• 5:16
  Speaker 2: the year is splinters, but they're going to be sitting
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: on the fence. I do expect McLaren to win the
• 5:24
  Speaker 2: Constructors championship, and that's a big call sitting here. The
• 5:28
  Speaker 2: reason I say that, though, is that they do have
• 5:30
  Speaker 2: two drivers, and not just two drivers contributing points, but
• 5:34
  Speaker 2: two drivers can contributing good points. You know, they both
• 5:37
  Speaker 2: win races, they're both regularly on the podium. Perez even
• 5:41
  Speaker 2: if he gets into the points, they're usually sort of
• 5:43
  Speaker 2: the lower end of the top eight, so they're not
• 5:46
  Speaker 2: the big points. Eventually, that championship advantage that Red Bull
• 5:50
  Speaker 2: has will will be eroded, so I expect that to
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: be the big story. I'd like to see McLaren sorry
• 5:57
  Speaker 2: Mercedes challenge a little bit more. Also really like to
• 6:00
  Speaker 2: see Ferrari steady that ship because I'm now less looking
• 6:04
  Speaker 2: at the back end of this year sort of more
• 6:07
  Speaker 2: looking at the front end of next year for what
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: are we going to see in twenty twenty five, Because
• 6:13
  Speaker 2: this story is largely written as a two horse race,
• 6:15
  Speaker 2: red Bull and McLaren. Ferrari's falling away, Mercedes is coming back,
• 6:18
  Speaker 2: and that should all hopefully conspire to leave us Qatar
• 6:23
  Speaker 2: Abu Dhaby time in a really competitive melting pot, which
• 6:26
  Speaker 2: sets us up for twenty twenty five. That's what I'm
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: looking forward to through that I think there will be
• 6:33
  Speaker 2: some storylines with Oscar Piastri continuing his development. We saw
• 6:37
  Speaker 2: really good evidence of that probably the second quarter of
• 6:42
  Speaker 2: that of the season Miami onwards, even Imla onwards, where
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: his race management had clearly improved, His tire management has
• 6:53
  Speaker 2: clearly improved. All the little checkboxes that he's been looking
• 6:56
  Speaker 2: at for heading into twenty twenty four managed to tick
• 7:00
  Speaker 2: a lot of those off, and he's now a genuine
• 7:04
  Speaker 2: threat for race wins as much as in my opinion,
• 7:07
  Speaker 2: Lando Norris is, and I think he's got headroom to
• 7:09
  Speaker 2: grow into which I don't think Lando Norris has, so
• 7:12
  Speaker 2: watching that will be interesting. So my focus is on
• 7:16
  Speaker 2: McLaren and the battle with Red Bull and some of
• 7:21
  Speaker 2: the nuances within that.
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: Well, why don't we start with that then, before we
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: tap into matters like Prari Mercedes and setting up next year,
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: which is despite the fact we've got a live championship battle,
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: a big part of the second part of this season,
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: considering how much change we've got next year, and how
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: much this will be about setting down some lines and
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: some markers for twenty twenty five, because it's been three
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: years now since we've really had a genuine championship battle.
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: Every sign is that this will go all the way
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: or to some point near the end of the season,
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: and we're kind of somewhat anticlimactic if on the current
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: trajectory McLaren just takes lead in Singapore and then wins
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: it by one hundred and fifty points or something, because
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: suddenly the battle we're anticipating, You, Kevin, what you wish for,
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: I suppose, because maybe actually he's such a battle. But
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: that is the trajectory. If you look at over the
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: last eight races, it's been I think a McLaren out
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: scoring Red Bull by around nine points that would put
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: them in front around US Grand Prix in October. The
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: last four races, that's been up to thirteen points, which
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: will see them take the lead in Singapore the end
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: of September in just four races time. And you really
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: highlighted I think the pertinent point. It's something that Zach
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: Brown McLaren CEO has said as well, which is actually
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: McLaren's in this fight mostly because of Sergio Perez. You know,
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: maxwistappen while he's on his longest losing streak since twenty
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: twenty four, whole races he has still won seven of
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: the first fourteen Grand Prix, one half of them. It's
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: really only Sergio Perei is not pulling his weight compared
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: to Norris and Piastre being pretty equal performers, particularly lately.
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: So let's start from the peirs angle perhaps of this battle,
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: because that is still a question mark. Despite Red Bull
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: Racing trying to quell some of the rumors, some of
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: the talk around his future with a carefully worded not
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: even a press release. Was it a statement via the media.
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: I guess we could call it from Christian Horner not
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: committing to Paris for the rest of the season, just
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: for races at which he's done well at which we're
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: taking to me in the next four races before we
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: have that second mid season break we mentioned. Is there
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: really anyway there might be a way for Sergio Pairs
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: to save the rest of his season. I fully believe
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: that Red Bull doesn't really want to sack him and
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: if he can turn his form around, not even by
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: a lot, I don't get the sense, considering that he's
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: fairly woeful. Belgian Grand Prix performance was enough apparently to
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: earn earn him another Reprieve, doesn't need to do too much,
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: maybe to save the rest of his season, but is
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: there really any saving Sergio Peirs at Red Bull Racing
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: Because this is at a minimum and near death experience
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: for Red Bulls Championship defense, right Like it's going to
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: be close. If McLaren and Red Bulls start on even
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: footing next year, it won't be closed to your mind.
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: Is there any way for Sergio Pearis to save his
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: career at Red Bull Racing.
• 9:54
  Speaker 2: It's a really good question, and probably the thirty seven
• 9:58
  Speaker 2: million dollar question at this point, because the Constructors Championship
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: is where the money is, and that's ultimately what we're
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: talking about here. The Driver's Championship has all the prestige
• 10:09
  Speaker 2: and the bragging rights and all that sort of stuff,
• 10:11
  Speaker 2: so one we all talk about, but it's not the
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: one that earns you money. The the formula's prize money,
• 10:16
  Speaker 2: and that's worth tens of millions of dollars. The problem
• 10:21
  Speaker 2: Red Bull faces and this is sort of a it's
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: been the architecture of its own demise here in many respects,
• 10:28
  Speaker 2: in that by changing RB from an out and out
• 10:35
  Speaker 2: development team into a team in its own right, one
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: that is expected to perform and deliver and finance itself.
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: Once upon a time it was just bankrolled by Red
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: Bull GmbH and understood to be the development squad. By
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: changing that, Mantra Rebel no longer has a driver in
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: a position that it can just slot in there, with
• 10:59
  Speaker 2: the exception arguably Yuki Snoda, But for whatever reason, he's
• 11:03
  Speaker 2: not in this conversation. There's something going on there that
• 11:08
  Speaker 2: hasn't come out publicly that clearly Red Bull it doesn't
• 11:13
  Speaker 2: like what it sees. Otherwise he would be in the conversation.
• 11:16
  Speaker 2: So if we accept that Sonoda for whatever reason, isn't
• 11:19
  Speaker 2: an option, it leaves us with a pool of three drivers.
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: Unless Red Bull looks externally, you've got Sojo Perez, Daniel Ricardo,
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: Liam Lawson. Red Bull can't afford to go into next
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: year's championship with a third wheel. Effectively, it can't have
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: a passenger. It has to have a driver contributing good
• 11:42
  Speaker 2: points most if not all weekends. Sojo Perez has ticked
• 11:47
  Speaker 2: that box, and just tick that box. During his time
• 11:52
  Speaker 2: at Red bulls us I always had, in my opinion,
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: not enough wins, particularly last year when they had the
• 11:57
  Speaker 2: most dominant car. But is plunking Daniel Ricardo in that seat,
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: guaranteeing you're doing any better. No, it's still a gamble.
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: Is dropping Liam Lawson in that car a guarantee of
• 12:12
  Speaker 2: doing readit no, equally and probably more of a risk
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: because he's not been exposed to that sort of pressure
• 12:18
  Speaker 2: and demands and everything else the Formula One. So at
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: the moment, Sogio Perez is the best pat and that's
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: a concern because when you're facing teams who've got Lendon, Norisoscopiastric,
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: both scoring points, both challenging for race wins. Mercedes at
• 12:36
  Speaker 2: the moment, okay, you've got George Russell and Lewis Hamilton.
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: That will change and that threat as a team for
• 12:41
  Speaker 2: the Constructors Champion will probably lessen next year because unless
• 12:46
  Speaker 2: they go out and sign, there's no one around the
• 12:50
  Speaker 2: market that you could say plugs that gap. I mean,
• 12:52
  Speaker 2: even if you bring Vaccheri botass back, is he going
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: to be capable of mixing it, you know, putting Mercedes
• 12:59
  Speaker 2: on par say a Norris and Piastric combination. I don't
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: think him. With Russell, I don't think they could because
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: I don't rate Russell as highly as I do Norris
• 13:08
  Speaker 2: and Piastre and then Ferrari, who knows on current form
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: you wouldn't put them in that bracket. So the challenge
• 13:17
  Speaker 2: from Mercedes and Ferrari is arguably a little bit diminished,
• 13:21
  Speaker 2: But the challenge from McLaren is going to be even stronger,
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: you would think, because everything there, the stability means that
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: they've got two cars capable of scoring points and I've
• 13:31
  Speaker 2: got as much chance of doing that next year as
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: what they do this year. And so for that matter
• 13:35
  Speaker 2: of Red Bull. So Sergio needs to do something, and
• 13:42
  Speaker 2: as you say, he doesn't need to do a lot,
• 13:43
  Speaker 2: but he needs to do something. But I get the
• 13:46
  Speaker 2: feeling that the decision that was made post Belgium to
• 13:50
  Speaker 2: retain him is probably going to be the decision that's
• 13:53
  Speaker 2: made postseason unless one of two things happened. One if
• 13:58
  Speaker 2: Sergio completely capitulates and does nothing in the next few races,
• 14:03
  Speaker 2: or two Daniel Riccardo shows us the race winning form
• 14:08
  Speaker 2: from Monaco twenty eighteen all over again. You know, if
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: one of those two things happen, I can see a
• 14:13
  Speaker 2: change coming, but I think the change will happen before
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: the end of the year. If we get to the
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: end of the season, Sergo Perez is still in that car.
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: I will put money on Sojo Perez being in that
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: car at the start of next year. I wouldn't put
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: money on Daniel Ricardo still being in the RB.
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: Though, Well that's another element of it. Maybe we'll talk
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: about driver market a little bit later, but it's sort
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: of it is interesting that there surely is, although the
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: team's reluctance to deal with pairs maybe makes me question it.
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: But surely the red line is the Championship League. If
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: Red Bull leaves Singapore with the championship lost or is
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: close enough, you know, down to ten points or whatever,
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: then surely it's not ten Sure you have to change
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: something at that point. I can kind of understand the conservatism,
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: and I think we talked about this a couple of
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: weeks ago off you, you know, Christian Horner having to
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: make a decision saying well, we could sub Sergo Perez
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: out and sort of as you said, Matt, but maybe
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: Daniel Ricardo won't do any better, or maybe whoever else,
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: Liam Molson, if you think about putting him in there
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: won't actually save the title, and it's lose lose with
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: forty odd points still in hand. And with new efforts
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: to try and make pairs comfortable after the break, you
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: could at least say, well, we can try, we know
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: peirs can do it. At the start of the year
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: is more competitive. But if that gap reduces to practically zero,
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: or is that continues on that trajectory, well then it
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: isn't you may as well make the change because you'd
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: be destined to lose it anyway, particularly given we've highlighted
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: or the teams highlighted that these next races are Peirrs's
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: restaurants and we can't do the job there, then where
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: is he going to do the job? The other side
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: of this, though, map, and this is something certainly I'm
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: looking forward to seeing unfold is the McLaren angle to
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: all of this. There is the driver angle, which is
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: very interesting. We saw our first sort of flash point
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: in Hungary. It was more of a Blando Norris mental
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: flash point. I suppose him trying to decide how exactly
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: he fits into that team dynamic that is increasingly even,
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: rather than having him as the lead driver. But nonetheless
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: it was a flashpoint between them. But something I thought
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: that was really interesting that Andrea Stella said in Belgium
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: or just before the break, which was that he was
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: a surprised that Red Bull Racing's bringing upgrades to the
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: car that haven't really made it take significant steps forward.
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: We've seen Red Bull through quite a lot at this
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: car and not take steps forward, And b that McLaren
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: hasn't actually brought that much but has over delivered on
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: its own expectations. He has said that a couple of times,
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: and the second component of that being that means that
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: there are more upgrades to come in the second half
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: of the season. Now they're not teasing any major Miami
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: style upgrades that could completely revolutionize the game, but they
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: are talking about the fact that, well there are there
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: is a fairly hefty pipeline of development still coming in
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: the second half of the season that could yet swing
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: this not just in McLaren's favor, but almost out of
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: Red Bull Racing's hand entirely, because it does feel like
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: the cars at the moment are very evenly matched, and
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: that does change the complexion of what we were talking about.
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: Kind of, as I said, we've sort of hyped up
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: for what could be a battle to the finish. Maybe
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: this battle doesn't actually have that much longer left to run.
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: Speaking to Oscar piastri I interviewed him not too long back,
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: and he was very explicit in saying, yeah, the constructor's
• 17:15
  Speaker 2: championship's realistic. He's not targeting the driver's championship. He realizes
• 17:18
  Speaker 2: that one hundred and ten points back with call it
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: three hundred to go is probably a little bit too far.
• 17:25
  Speaker 2: But McLaren's forty two points back. It's got two drivers
• 17:29
  Speaker 2: who are scoring well, a car that I don't think
• 17:32
  Speaker 2: the upgrades is so much about delivering performance or out
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: and out performance. I don't see that changing much at
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: the moment. But what they're doing. Teams are doing is
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: opening the performance envelope, so making their cars work on
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: a wider range of tracks. And that's certainly the case
• 17:49
  Speaker 2: of for McLaren. Last year. We were sitting here and
• 17:53
  Speaker 2: we were impressed at how they performed. Was still a
• 17:55
  Speaker 2: little bit inconsistent where there was a high speed circuit
• 17:58
  Speaker 2: that do well with. They're worried about low speed performance.
• 18:01
  Speaker 2: They're less worried about that now. The high speed performance
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: hasn't been diminished significantly either, So it's all about expanding
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: the operating window. The McLaren looks really good Lando Norris
• 18:20
  Speaker 2: seems to have grown into his team leader role. The
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: win in Miami has done something to him, and often
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: does this with drivers. It flicks as an internal switch.
• 18:32
  Speaker 2: You saw it. It's the second time I've mentioned Nigel Manswell,
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: but Nigel Mansill back in South Africa and what was
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: it nineteen eighty five, Off the top of my head,
• 18:42
  Speaker 2: he won that race and from there on he was
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: a race winner and he didn't stop winning. Basically, he
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: did it reasonably consistently through his career. Something changed in
• 18:52
  Speaker 2: his mind. It was also a little bit with some
• 18:55
  Speaker 2: other drivers. It takes them a long time. MIKEA. Hackett
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: is another good one. Takes a long time to get
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: that first win. But when they get it, suddenly they
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: believe they can keep delivering. Lando seems to have that Oscar.
• 19:08
  Speaker 2: I don't think Oscar ever thought he couldn't win. You know,
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: there's that great line in Cars two or Cars three
• 19:15
  Speaker 2: where Lightning McQueen says it gets asked, you know how
• 19:18
  Speaker 2: he thought he you know, didn't he think it ever losing.
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: I just didn't think I'd ever not win. I'm paraphrasing
• 19:25
  Speaker 2: there and butchered that. But Oscar's got a little bit
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: of that to him. He's just so quietly confident. So
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: there's just this assuredness around McLaren, this confidence, this growing swagger,
• 19:40
  Speaker 2: and the lessons that they've learned in the first half
• 19:43
  Speaker 2: of the year, some of the strategic blunders I've made.
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: They're doing a lot of this in public. And I
• 19:47
  Speaker 2: think I've said this before because as you mentioned, this
• 19:50
  Speaker 2: is happening much quicker than they expected it to. They're
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: in that spotlight earlier than they planned, which is not
• 19:56
  Speaker 2: a bad thing. It's great for us because we do
• 19:58
  Speaker 2: have this this champion battle which could well could very
• 20:03
  Speaker 2: easily swing McLaren's favor, and the pendulum is certainly swing
• 20:07
  Speaker 2: in that direction at the moment. You need only look
• 20:09
  Speaker 2: at the difference in the Constructor Championship forty two points
• 20:12
  Speaker 2: versus one hundred and fifteen. I think it was at
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: one point after Miami. That's a huge swing in not
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: many races. We've got ten races left, that's more than
• 20:20
  Speaker 2: enough time. So yeah, the development development race will be
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: key to this, but I don't think the deciding fact.
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: What will be more important is having a compliant car,
• 20:31
  Speaker 2: one with a good operating window that you can just
• 20:34
  Speaker 2: get to work. You know, you don't need to bring
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: half a tenth worth of performance, because if you can
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: get the car into your operating window and make it
• 20:41
  Speaker 2: deliver ninety nine percent, it's probably going to be good enough.
• 20:44
  Speaker 2: Given the competition that you're going to be racing and
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: the fact that Mercedes is there, ferraris there, teams are
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: going to be stealing points off each other. So you
• 20:51
  Speaker 2: just need to get the car into that happy little
• 20:53
  Speaker 2: window and I think you'll you'll do some good things
• 20:57
  Speaker 2: in the back half of this year.
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: Well, Nigel men reference and a car's two reference in
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: a single a single response, it's very impressive.
• 21:05
  Speaker 2: Hit. I have to get a pit Talk podcast bingo
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: card going, Yeah, there's a drinking game or something I
• 21:14
  Speaker 2: can feel coming.
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: Yes, you'd be running very well. I think in this
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: episode so far it will be interesting. I think to
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: see we already know that McClaren is a consistent performer,
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: I suppose because if we've visited so many different sorts
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: of tracks since Miami and the car has been consistently there.
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: But you know we will be visiting some tracks that
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: last year despite the team being in at least sprint
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: winning contention. And a couple of double podiums and so on.
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: That team didn't perform very well at Italy, being one
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: of them being very high speed focused. Obviously, also weren't
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: that good at the Dutch Grand Prix because last year
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: is struggling much more with slower corners, and even Abu
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: Dhabi at the end of the season they didn't do
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: very well at and that might end up being quite
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: an important race depending on how this championship battle goes.
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: So there's quite a lot on the line there. I
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: guess to move to a slightly different angle on this
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: before maybe we think about the driver market and then
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: of course move on to some predictions, and the alternative
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: championship is McLaren, Mercedes and Ferrari rather because they are
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: in the Mercedes at least certainly he is in the mix,
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: despite being well off the constructors' championship and probably a
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: long shot at best to claim it. Have won three
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: of the last four races that Mercedes is the informed
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: team in Formula One at the moment, which is remarkable
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: to say. Two of those wins Lewis Hamilton, although I
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: guess you could say he shares that Peltim win with
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: George Russel, so maybe they're nice and even in that sense,
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: and Ferrari, while being off the boil pretty much since
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: winning the Monaco Grand Prix, does continue to promise and look,
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: you can take that as you like. I suppose that
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: there are only one sort of tweak away from understanding
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: this car from returning to where they were at the
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: start of the year, and this was because that Spanish
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: Grand Prix upgrade didn't really fire for them. It took
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: them a while to figure that out. It's always risky
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: bringing upgrades to Spain because then the next race was
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: Austria with the sprint format and then suddenly you're losing time.
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: We had some wet sessions, all that kind of thing.
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: Bringing a new floor after the mid season break, bringing
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: some tweaks to subsequent races that might be enough to
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: see them resume there. And that changes the picture again
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: because even if neither a team is in contention with
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: the constructor's title, that does mean points are not going
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: directly to Red Bull Racing and McLaren on their respective
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: strong races, and that does change the momentum. I want
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: to talk about Mercedes in particular though, because I think
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: for our sort of its own case. The Mercedes Lewis
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: Hamilton final chapter for me is very interesting because, as
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: I think we've seen over the past couple of years
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: and really over his entire career, when the car is
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: not performing, Lewis Hamilton sometimes puts his head down a
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: little bit, and I think we even saw that at
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: the start of this year, and I attribute a lot
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: of the dynamic between him and George Russell stemming from that.
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: George Russell's been able to get more out of the
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: car and it's not been at its best, but more
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: recently in particular, when the car has clearly been more competitive,
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: so too is Lewis Hamilton's form improved. Like I said,
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: two technically, at least officially, I should say, of the
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: last four races have been Lewis Hamilton victories, most iconic
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: of which, of course the British Grand Prix. But this
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: dynamic between him and the team is going to be
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: fascinating to watch because they've been really their own biggest
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: advocates for that entire obviously title winning run, but even
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: the last couple of years when things have not been
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: going so well. But now that relationship is dissolving and
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: it's dissolving. We shouldn't forget because Lewis Hamilton felt like
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: the team maybe wasn't showing him enough faith with the
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: short term contract, and that in turn is that the
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: team believing that maybe Lewis Hamilton's best days is numbered
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: because they had their eye on Kimie Antonelli replacing him
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: in the medium turn, perhaps as soon as next year,
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: had things worked out, and that probably is what is
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: going to happen, just not in the way the team
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: probably expected it. Toto Wolf doesn't feel like the biggest
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: Lewis Hamilton booster in the way has been the last
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: few years. I'm not suggesting there's any tension between them
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: and anything like that, but there's just this cooling of
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: the relationship. And the longer the season goes on, the
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: closer we get to twenty twenty five, the closer Lewis
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: Hamilton gets becoming Ferrari driver, the more that's going to
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: be the case. But I suspect there are more wins
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: for Lewis Hamilton this second half for the season. I'm
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: going to be really fascinated to see how that dynamic
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: plays out.
• 25:03
  Speaker 2: I think you've hit the nail and had there there's
• 25:07
  Speaker 2: something that's not the same there in that relationship, and
• 25:10
  Speaker 2: it's it's sort of been not broken, but it's been
• 25:13
  Speaker 2: different since the start of the year, and that announcement
• 25:15
  Speaker 2: came out the end of January or whenever it was.
• 25:19
  Speaker 2: But Lewis Hamilton has refound his mojo at the same time.
• 25:24
  Speaker 2: That's helped by Mercedes refining its mojo. It's been knocking
• 25:29
  Speaker 2: on the door for a little while. But whatever it
• 25:32
  Speaker 2: is that found it found around the Monaco Grand Prix.
• 25:35
  Speaker 2: Everyone put it down to the front wing. I don't
• 25:39
  Speaker 2: buy that that's too simplistic. The front winning around Monaco
• 25:43
  Speaker 2: brings near on nothing because you basically always want to
• 25:47
  Speaker 2: run a vertical service there to you know, just push
• 25:52
  Speaker 2: the thing into it around. You're not after efficiencies at all.
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: I argue that it's probably the flaw and changes. I
• 26:00
  Speaker 2: refer to this all the time in balance. If you
• 26:03
  Speaker 2: can give your driver's confidence in the car balance and
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: they're comfortable with it, they can push. If the car's
• 26:10
  Speaker 2: not comfortable, they can't. And that's we need only look
• 26:13
  Speaker 2: at Ferrari for evidence of that the car isn't comfortable.
• 26:15
  Speaker 2: We know the car was quick early in the year.
• 26:18
  Speaker 2: The car now isn't comfortable because of bounces and they
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: can't push, so they're not as quick. Conversely, McLaren have
• 26:25
  Speaker 2: opened the performance window. The car is more comfortable and
• 26:28
  Speaker 2: they can push. So it's all about balance and it's
• 26:30
  Speaker 2: all about car comfort. And we're now seeing the overlap
• 26:32
  Speaker 2: between where the car is happy and where Lewis Hamilton
• 26:35
  Speaker 2: is happy. And when we see that overlap, we saw
• 26:38
  Speaker 2: from twenty fourteen until twenty twenty what that combination can do.
• 26:45
  Speaker 2: Lewis Hamilton I don't believe he's as good as he
• 26:48
  Speaker 2: was during his absolute peak, but he's clearly still good
• 26:51
  Speaker 2: enough to be a raised winner. I mean, he's the
• 26:53
  Speaker 2: greatest of all time statistically, isn't he? So you know
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: he's still got plenty more to go. I don't disagree
• 26:59
  Speaker 2: with you. We know there are circuits coming up where
• 27:04
  Speaker 2: Mercedes has historically been comparatively strong. The I was going
• 27:11
  Speaker 2: to call it the Brazilian Grand Privis, the South Paolo
• 27:13
  Speaker 2: Grand Prix. These days, they've traditionally been pretty strong up
• 27:18
  Speaker 2: And there was that drive from Lewis Hamilton. It was
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: in the sprint, wasn't it about twenty one where it
• 27:24
  Speaker 2: came from the back to the front when that was phenomenal,
• 27:26
  Speaker 2: arguably the greatest drive of Louis Hamilton's career. Singapore, they
• 27:31
  Speaker 2: always seem to go well as well, and there was
• 27:33
  Speaker 2: a third place there with fastest lap last year in
• 27:36
  Speaker 2: Mexico second place. So there's a couple of events coming
• 27:38
  Speaker 2: up where you're right, they're going to be very strong.
• 27:41
  Speaker 2: What will be interesting is, you know events like Singapore
• 27:46
  Speaker 2: and where some of these stronger races are for the
• 27:50
  Speaker 2: likes of Mercedes and there was Hamilton. How that overlaps
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: with the strengths of McLaren, how that overlaps with the
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: strengths of the Red Bull, and most importantly, how that
• 28:01
  Speaker 2: overlaps with the weaknesses of Sergio Perez. I think that's
• 28:05
  Speaker 2: going to curious to think that the success of Lewis
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: Hamilton could expedite the failure of Sjo Perez. But it's
• 28:13
  Speaker 2: so intrinsically linked at the moment. You've got all these
• 28:17
  Speaker 2: interwoven storylines that you can't look at any of them
• 28:21
  Speaker 2: in isolation because it is so inherently competitive at the moment.
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: I can't think of Formula one where it's been this competitive. Okay,
• 28:30
  Speaker 2: there are big gaps in the Constructors Championship. Let's park
• 28:33
  Speaker 2: that to the side and let's just look at the
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: competition from sort of Spain or maybe even Austria onwards.
• 28:41
  Speaker 2: And we've got three teams, arguably four at times. It's
• 28:45
  Speaker 2: not just your own individual prowess, it's that of your rivals.
• 28:49
  Speaker 2: Every story it's like one of those you know when
• 28:52
  Speaker 2: the police on the police shows where they're hunting someone.
• 28:55
  Speaker 2: I've got those red string lines everywhere. It's like that
• 28:58
  Speaker 2: at the moment. You've got you know, Mercedes to the
• 29:01
  Speaker 2: red string, to Lewis Hamilton with a red string, to
• 29:04
  Speaker 2: Ferrari with a red string, to Carla Science. It's all
• 29:09
  Speaker 2: linked and it's all fascinating because everyone is having influence
• 29:12
  Speaker 2: on everyone else.
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: Let's move on now to the driver market map, because
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: this is the essential last piece of the second part
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: of the season, and middally a lot of it has been,
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: if not formally decided, A lot of penciling in has
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: been going on up and down the paddock. There are
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: a couple of big question marks left we're waiting for confirmation,
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: but there are four seats that start off with that.
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: There are four seats still available officially in Formula one
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: for twenty twenty five, Mercedes is the most competitive among them.
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: All expectations are that Andrea Kimi Antonelli will be put
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: in that seat the Formula two Mercedes Juniors one a
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: couple of times in Formula two hasn't had perhaps the
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: standout season that he and the team and maybe some
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: observers were expecting. But certainly you can see the upswing
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: inform there and combined with the impressive private testing he's
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: been doing with Mercedes, that seems to be enough to
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: convince the team that he is worth a shot, and
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: certainly it's become a bit of a totemic issue for
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: Toto Wolf as well. Moving further down the grid, RB
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: has already been well ventilated. We know that's a Ricardo lawson.
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: Paeris in the not in the mix, but he's connected there.
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: That's sort of a self contained situation there. At least
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: our expectations are that will be further down the grid.
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: Is Alpine pursued Carlos Science quite aggressively, didn't get him
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: in the end. He went to Williams, of course, just
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: after the end of the first part of the season.
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: Now expecting Australian Jack Do and to be front of
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: the queue there, although predicting Alpine is sometimes difficult, but
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: certainly he is at least in the mix the reserve
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: driver and that could mean as many as three Australians
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: on the grid next year, can you imagine. But the
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: one that remains a genuine large question mark and very
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: much in play is the Sauba or Audi seat currently
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: occupied by either Veltri Botasa, Jogo nuw whichever you want
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: to look at it. There was a belief only a
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: month or two ago, certainly when Andrea Seidel was the
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: souber ceo since moved on that Audi in preparation of
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: becoming Audi. I suppose in tweeny twenty six wanted a
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: clean break from these later years of Sowurn. You can
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: kind of understand why doesn't look that impressive at the moment.
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: You kind of want to clean slate. Plus Audi coming
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: in works manufactured kind of makes sense since Materi Binoto's
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: arrived in Seitle's place fundamentally, and we've had more announcements
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: on recruitment since then. Valdrie Botas kind of suggested that, well,
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: maybe there's a chance for him to stay there. No
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: one's really talking too much about Joe Go I knew
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: as it happens, But this is a team that was
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: connected to Liam Lawson not that long ago. If Lawson
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: weren't to get the not at one of the Red
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: Bull teams, then if we talk about one of the
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: more dramatic scenarios of Ricardo and or Perez maybe being
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: dropped from the Red Bull program, or they are both
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: experienced race winners, and while Niko Holcknberg certainly in great form,
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: not a race winner, not even a podium getter, suddenly
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: they look a little bit more attractive. Is it a
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: dundeal for Botass do you think? Or is there more
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: to play in war on paper? Being the future how
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: he works, team should be an extremely attractive option.
• 32:05
  Speaker 2: The problem is that team has been going through the
• 32:08
  Speaker 2: ringer for two years. Really there's been a lack of investment.
• 32:14
  Speaker 2: The business model that they went into where the ownership
• 32:17
  Speaker 2: was split between Audi and Finn routing with Arrowhead or
• 32:22
  Speaker 2: whatever they called Longbow, wasn't it own as a team
• 32:24
  Speaker 2: previously Longbow that was the one.
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: That's what a terrible name for a business. By the way,
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: I've always thought this, it's like, well, good luck business,
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: give it your best shot company.
• 32:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we'll shoot our shot.
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: What's the worst that could happen? Racing?
• 32:41
  Speaker 2: Finn Rousing? What are the richest men in the world.
• 32:44
  Speaker 2: He's got a net worth of well over seven billion dollars.
• 32:49
  Speaker 2: Quite an interesting story as to how he came to
• 32:51
  Speaker 2: own that team, but that's a story for another day.
• 32:53
  Speaker 2: That ownership structure a disincentivized investment, because why would Finn
• 32:58
  Speaker 2: Rousing invest in a team knows he's going to sell
• 33:01
  Speaker 2: to Audi or divest a good portion to Audi? Why
• 33:05
  Speaker 2: would Audi invest into a business that it doesn't own
• 33:10
  Speaker 2: and could ultimately drive up the transaction price of that
• 33:14
  Speaker 2: So it got left in this weird state for a
• 33:17
  Speaker 2: little while. There was some power struggles I understand behind
• 33:20
  Speaker 2: the scenes as well, and as a result, it's kind
• 33:23
  Speaker 2: of not It's not that it's gone backwards. It's just
• 33:25
  Speaker 2: not gone forwards and everyone else has going forward. Though,
• 33:31
  Speaker 2: looking towards the end of the year, do you need
• 33:34
  Speaker 2: to be in a rush to sign a second drive?
• 33:36
  Speaker 2: I mean, ultimately RB and Rebel are going to take
• 33:40
  Speaker 2: care of that seat independently. That's probably not going to
• 33:43
  Speaker 2: impact the driver back. In fact, you can probably wait
• 33:45
  Speaker 2: for that to happen, so you've got a clear indication
• 33:48
  Speaker 2: as to what your options are. We know Liam Lawson's
• 33:52
  Speaker 2: got an option that expires sometime in September. We don't
• 33:54
  Speaker 2: know if it's the end or the start of September,
• 33:56
  Speaker 2: but at some point in September that that options might
• 34:00
  Speaker 2: be October, but either way it's in the next couple
• 34:02
  Speaker 2: of weeks. And at that point you know, is Lim
• 34:06
  Speaker 2: Lawson on the market. Is Daniel Ricardo? I mean, hell,
• 34:09
  Speaker 2: what designing that would be. Even if he's not the
• 34:11
  Speaker 2: Daniel Riccardo who's in his absolute best, but you get
• 34:15
  Speaker 2: the feeling that what Audi wants is to degree of stability,
• 34:18
  Speaker 2: some experience, and someone who can drive the team not
• 34:22
  Speaker 2: necessarily on track, but from a technical and morale point
• 34:25
  Speaker 2: of view, that's what they need. Niko Holkenberg, I've got
• 34:27
  Speaker 2: that to an extent in that seat. And then you
• 34:32
  Speaker 2: look at who could realistically partner him, Yes, Botas, Lawson
• 34:36
  Speaker 2: and Riccardo, and they're really your three options. There's no
• 34:40
  Speaker 2: one else really out there that's that's worth grabbing. I
• 34:44
  Speaker 2: mean no disrespect to to Logan Sergeant or Kevin Magnuson
• 34:48
  Speaker 2: or those guys. They're just not someone that you see
• 34:52
  Speaker 2: as a natural fit into an Audi factory drive, because's
• 34:56
  Speaker 2: efectively what it is. But at the same time, maybe
• 35:00
  Speaker 2: you do go for a youngster because this is a project.
• 35:02
  Speaker 2: This isn't going to be a two year deal. This
• 35:05
  Speaker 2: is a three or four year program to bring it
• 35:07
  Speaker 2: back to some degree of competitive So let's not forget
• 35:10
  Speaker 2: that this is the same organization that once upon a
• 35:13
  Speaker 2: time was the BMW Factory.
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: Team long time ago, now a.
• 35:16
  Speaker 2: Long time ago now, yes, but it won races with
• 35:19
  Speaker 2: Robert cuz Or a race with Robert Kubitzer. Some interesting
• 35:23
  Speaker 2: parallels behind the scenes there, but again a story for
• 35:25
  Speaker 2: another day. But then conversely, you've got a similar sort
• 35:31
  Speaker 2: of situation at an alpine. I'm led to believe that
• 35:35
  Speaker 2: Jack doing his signed a contract there hasn't been announced.
• 35:37
  Speaker 2: There were suggestions that was going to be announced this
• 35:39
  Speaker 2: this week. I've checked with the team and they tell
• 35:41
  Speaker 2: me that it's not you know, do they promote from within,
• 35:47
  Speaker 2: do they bring an experienced driver in alongside such as Botas,
• 35:53
  Speaker 2: alongside Pierre Casley. It's interesting because Mercedes is more or
• 35:58
  Speaker 2: less wrapped up the other I'm going to throw at you.
• 36:00
  Speaker 2: You mentioned Lawson and Riccardo in conjunction with the RB seat.
• 36:05
  Speaker 2: The other one I'm going to throw in there is
• 36:07
  Speaker 2: Isaac Kadja. I think he's a realistic option for RB
• 36:13
  Speaker 2: next year as well, and that will depend on what
• 36:15
  Speaker 2: happens with Sergio Perez and movement of other pieces. But yeah,
• 36:20
  Speaker 2: it's going to be fascinating. We've only got four seats left,
• 36:23
  Speaker 2: but they're four sort of meaningful seats. Even if they're
• 36:25
  Speaker 2: not at the very cutting edge of where the sport
• 36:28
  Speaker 2: is at the moment, there's seats that will have a
• 36:32
  Speaker 2: long term impact on the landscape of the spot, particularly
• 36:37
  Speaker 2: when you look at teams that are in a building
• 36:39
  Speaker 2: phase like Alpine and Audi.
• 36:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's right. And the intrigue here is that it's
• 36:46
  Speaker 1: just four seats and something like eight or nine contenders,
• 36:48
  Speaker 1: so there's still quite a lot to settle, even if
• 36:51
  Speaker 1: it seems like it all boils down to maybe one
• 36:53
  Speaker 1: or two seats that are genuinely uncertain in their destination.
• 36:59
  Speaker 1: Let's look now very briefly before we go to the
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: alternative Championship. I don't know if you are you willing
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: and able to make some predictions. I know you already
• 37:05
  Speaker 1: said MacLaren's going to win the Constructors Championship. Would you
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: like to make a secondary bold prediction before we look
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: at the alternative Championship.
• 37:12
  Speaker 2: I'm going to go absolutely off the wall here and
• 37:16
  Speaker 2: say maxis happened to win a fourth drivers Championship. Wow,
• 37:21
  Speaker 2: it's a big He's a long way that that one's
• 37:24
  Speaker 2: basically guaranteed. Mathematically, it's still up for grabs. Butt he's
• 37:28
  Speaker 2: so far ahead, be almost cataclysmic for him to lose it. Now,
• 37:34
  Speaker 2: I do know, there's nothing else that really sort of
• 37:37
  Speaker 2: sticks out the bold prediction. I think we're watching the
• 37:44
  Speaker 2: last ten races of Daniel Ricardo's career.
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: Oh there you go. That's quite a bold one. Won't
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: be very popular, but it's a bold one.
• 37:49
  Speaker 2: No. Look, it saddens me to say that, because you know,
• 37:54
  Speaker 2: I love Daniel. He's very good. You know, we're Australians.
• 37:57
  Speaker 2: He's very good for us, he's very good to us.
• 38:00
  Speaker 2: But yeah, I just think we're watching the end of
• 38:05
  Speaker 2: an illustrious Australian Formula One career and it's somewhat disappointing
• 38:10
  Speaker 2: that that is the case. But I think, you know,
• 38:12
  Speaker 2: along with Max winning the championship and McLaren winning the
• 38:14
  Speaker 2: Constructors Championship. I think we're going to see Daniel bower
• 38:17
  Speaker 2: out at the end of the year.
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: See, I was poised to make almost the opposite prediction,
• 38:22
  Speaker 1: which is that for all the huffing and puffing and
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: speculation about Red Bull, they're going to take a precisely
• 38:26
  Speaker 1: unchanged lineup into next year and just tell people to
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: stop asking about it, which I could fully see happening
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: despite all because realistically, pending what we've all talked about
• 38:37
  Speaker 1: sauerber Audi situation, Sowerby would be quite a good man
• 38:41
  Speaker 1: of short ones. Lawson doesn't really have any options other
• 38:45
  Speaker 1: than that maybe to be on the grid next year.
• 38:48
  Speaker 1: So this talk of him becoming wow, it could be
• 38:49
  Speaker 1: a free agent by September's almost a little bit moot.
• 38:52
  Speaker 1: And that point if you're a Red Bull and you,
• 38:54
  Speaker 1: as clearly as the case, are not really willing to
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: make the big decisions at the moment, well I could
• 38:59
  Speaker 1: ease they see them saying, well, how about another year
• 39:02
  Speaker 1: on the sidelines and we go through all this exactly
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: the same again next year. Because talk from Okay, Helmut
• 39:08
  Speaker 1: Marco's talk has always been very oll. You know something's
• 39:10
  Speaker 1: going to happen very soon, and then sometimes it does,
• 39:12
  Speaker 1: but sometimes it doesn't. Christian Horner has been large and noncommittal,
• 39:15
  Speaker 1: but he's focus being on Serge Perez. But then if
• 39:17
  Speaker 1: you listen to what Laura Mecky is the team principle
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: at OURB says, and even Peter Bayer at the CEO,
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: they very much are leaving the door open to any possibilities,
• 39:25
  Speaker 1: including I think it was Peter Bayer was saying recently
• 39:28
  Speaker 1: that what maybe you could could go to Red Bull Racing.
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: So there's a lot of just a lot of non
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: committal behavior there at the moment. So I could fully
• 39:36
  Speaker 1: see actually nothing happening at all and it all being
• 39:40
  Speaker 1: a little bit underwhelming. But that's part of the intrigue
• 39:43
  Speaker 1: of this second part of the season. There's just so
• 39:45
  Speaker 1: much uncertainty, and it's not soon a while since I've
• 39:47
  Speaker 1: been able to see that in former to one. But
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: the championship, Okay, there are some outcomes we're talking about
• 39:52
  Speaker 1: the constructors title, driver's titles. One great uncertainty around the
• 39:56
  Speaker 1: alternative championship match, because this is very much a live situation.
• 40:00
  Speaker 2: I mean, even going into the last race, you could
• 40:02
  Speaker 2: be five thousand points ahead, and you still don't guarantee
• 40:05
  Speaker 2: teaching because for those that aren't aware, this is a
• 40:09
  Speaker 2: completely arbitrary look at the world of Formula One, and
• 40:12
  Speaker 2: we award points however we see fit that might mean
• 40:15
  Speaker 2: we take them away and that counts towards our leaderboards.
• 40:20
  Speaker 2: As we revealed last time, Yuki snod are currently leading
• 40:22
  Speaker 2: with one nine hundred and sixty eight points. Slender margin
• 40:26
  Speaker 2: over Ralf Schumacher in second with three hundred and twenty
• 40:28
  Speaker 2: nine goes to show just how off the wall this is.
• 40:31
  Speaker 2: But we're coming out of the mid season break. There
• 40:34
  Speaker 2: hasn't been a lot going on, so we are I'm
• 40:36
  Speaker 2: Gontas be honest with WETO Alternative Championship. We're scraping the
• 40:39
  Speaker 2: bottom of the barrel anyway, but this time I feel
• 40:42
  Speaker 2: like we're scraping the bottom of the barrel and we'll
• 40:43
  Speaker 2: warn our fingernails out doing it. So I'm going to
• 40:48
  Speaker 2: kick it off. I'm going to give Stefano Domenicalis minus
• 40:55
  Speaker 2: three points. Oh okay, modest minus three points, because that's
• 40:59
  Speaker 2: that's sort of how long we've been off. I don't
• 41:01
  Speaker 2: like the mid season break because it breaks up the
• 41:03
  Speaker 2: flow of the year and I maybe there's some FAA
• 41:07
  Speaker 2: points that I need to be sharing, but you know,
• 41:10
  Speaker 2: let's schedule it so that we don't have the break
• 41:13
  Speaker 2: and mostly so we've got some news coming through because
• 41:16
  Speaker 2: built up this real head of steam up to Belgium
• 41:19
  Speaker 2: and then it all just stopped.
• 41:21
  Speaker 1: Didn't you enjoy watching the Olympics? Am I allowed to
• 41:23
  Speaker 1: say the word Olympics. I'm not even sure.
• 41:25
  Speaker 2: I didn't see a minute of it. I haven't seen
• 41:27
  Speaker 2: a bit of the Olympics since Sydney. Mate, Ah, right now,
• 41:33
  Speaker 2: right now, I'm a massive cycling fan. I'm midway through
• 41:36
  Speaker 2: day eleven of the Tour de France.
• 41:38
  Speaker 1: Maybe we should schedule the breaks to coincide with the
• 41:41
  Speaker 1: Tour de France then.
• 41:42
  Speaker 2: And then that's I could get on board with that one. Yeah,
• 41:45
  Speaker 2: we're towards the end now of August and I'm a
• 41:48
  Speaker 2: month behind the Tour de France and getting awning further.
• 41:51
  Speaker 2: But yeah, minus three points for Stefano Domenicali for the
• 41:54
  Speaker 2: mid the fact that the mid season break exists. I
• 41:56
  Speaker 2: know it's not his fault, but someone's going to carry
• 41:58
  Speaker 2: the can and Stefano, You've got it controversial.
• 42:01
  Speaker 1: Contact's probably the most controversial pick. We've had all years so.
• 42:05
  Speaker 2: Far more than son Hayes.
• 42:07
  Speaker 1: No no more. Sometimes I think we're living with it.
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: In a not unrelated pick, though, I'm giving ten points
• 42:15
  Speaker 1: to Lewis Hamilton for trying to save the F one
• 42:20
  Speaker 1: film titled F one, and I point you to the
• 42:23
  Speaker 1: Esquire magazine interview with Lewis Hamilton asked him about what
• 42:26
  Speaker 1: his role is as a producer on this film, and
• 42:29
  Speaker 1: I'll paraphrase slightly, but then give you the line that
• 42:31
  Speaker 1: really caught my eye, and that's essentially he's like the
• 42:33
  Speaker 1: authenticity monitor as an actual Formula one driver, sort of
• 42:37
  Speaker 1: his job to look at the script written by Aaron
• 42:39
  Speaker 1: Krueger and, in his words, say, call bullshit. When things
• 42:42
  Speaker 1: don't seem like they're going to be legitimate, it's not
• 42:44
  Speaker 1: gonna fly. But I point to you, despite apparently that
• 42:47
  Speaker 1: one line that earned Sonny Hayes's demerits, I point you
• 42:52
  Speaker 1: to a way bigger thing that's now been omitted from
• 42:54
  Speaker 1: the script. And I quote Blewis Hamilton here. There may
• 42:56
  Speaker 1: have been a crash that was like the car hits
• 42:59
  Speaker 1: the wall and flips and lands on the wheels and
• 43:01
  Speaker 1: keeps going, and that doesn't happen in Formula one, he says.
• 43:05
  Speaker 1: So I'm giving him ten points for ensuring that that
• 43:07
  Speaker 1: scene does not make it into the F one film
• 43:09
  Speaker 1: entitled F one. I think that's important, and maybe by
• 43:12
  Speaker 1: the time we actually get to the release. Next to you,
• 43:14
  Speaker 1: even that Sunny Hayes line might be expunged from the script.
• 43:18
  Speaker 2: Was it damned with safety or something like that?
• 43:20
  Speaker 1: Wasn't it need a calf A combat match?
• 43:22
  Speaker 2: It need a calf A combat What does that mean?
• 43:28
  Speaker 1: That should have been the reply from the technical But Sunny,
• 43:32
  Speaker 1: what does that mean?
• 43:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I've got a feeling that this movie is going
• 43:40
  Speaker 2: to be some good fodder for us. Yeah, I'm looking
• 43:43
  Speaker 2: forward to it. So you've put far more effort into
• 43:49
  Speaker 2: this than I have, in fairness, because my next one
• 43:53
  Speaker 2: is pretty poor. I'm giving three points to Leo Leclair
• 43:57
  Speaker 2: because that's how many of Charles Leclair's Instagram or Twitter
• 44:02
  Speaker 2: post he's been in over the summer break.
• 44:05
  Speaker 1: That's good. I like that dog content is fine. I
• 44:07
  Speaker 1: enjoyed when he met Roscoe Lewis Hamilton's dog. I think
• 44:11
  Speaker 1: that was good. The crossover content. The sports world really
• 44:14
  Speaker 1: needed more of that.
• 44:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a story we didn't know we wanted now
• 44:18
  Speaker 2: can't live without. But it should be a spinoff. Dogs
• 44:21
  Speaker 2: have afore, we've got some drive to survive. Maybe it's
• 44:25
  Speaker 2: wolf to win.
• 44:29
  Speaker 1: I'm a big fan of that. Someone writes to Netflix,
• 44:32
  Speaker 1: I've taken ten points off twenty twenty one NASCAR champion
• 44:37
  Speaker 1: Kyle Larsen yes for claiming that he knows he's a
• 44:41
  Speaker 1: better driver than Max for Staffen, because I quote or paraphrase,
• 44:45
  Speaker 1: there's no way for Staffen can get in a sprint
• 44:47
  Speaker 1: car and win the Knoxville Nationals, the Chili Bowl, or
• 44:50
  Speaker 1: a cup race at Bristol. I'm not sure what the
• 44:53
  Speaker 1: Chili Bowl is sprint car race, but now I figured that,
• 44:56
  Speaker 1: But I don't know why it's named such that sorely
• 45:00
  Speaker 1: is not large enough set of criteria to say that
• 45:04
  Speaker 1: you're a better driver than Max Verstaffen. Max for Staffan's
• 45:07
  Speaker 1: also one more titled in his discipline at a minimum,
• 45:10
  Speaker 1: so I don't know if that counts or not, but
• 45:12
  Speaker 1: ten points off. I'm not a NASCAR expert, so I
• 45:15
  Speaker 1: don't know how good or not Kyle Larson is. I'm
• 45:17
  Speaker 1: led to believe he is quite a good NASCAR driver,
• 45:19
  Speaker 1: but that just seems like a very big claim.
• 45:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, that's that's up there with building a car
• 45:27
  Speaker 2: for combat. Yeah, it seems like that's what he wants, really,
• 45:32
  Speaker 2: isn't it. Yeah, yea, Karl Larson. To be honest, I
• 45:38
  Speaker 2: would love to see so. Back in the nineteen fifties
• 45:43
  Speaker 2: at Monza, there was this race I can't remember the act,
• 45:47
  Speaker 2: like the Race of Two Worlds, where they bought Formula
• 45:49
  Speaker 2: One and it wasn't NASCAR was in the car, but
• 45:51
  Speaker 2: they bought those two competitions together. They ran the oval
• 45:55
  Speaker 2: reverse direction at at Monza. Obviously, the Indian guys just
• 46:00
  Speaker 2: absolutely creamed it from memory because the Formula One cars
• 46:04
  Speaker 2: were less powerful and everything else, so they weren't set
• 46:06
  Speaker 2: up for for oval rating. But it's happened in the past.
• 46:09
  Speaker 2: I'd love to see something like that. I guess it's
• 46:12
  Speaker 2: a little bit like what the Race of Champions Champions
• 46:15
  Speaker 2: is or was, but that that just felt a little
• 46:18
  Speaker 2: bit manufactured, intended to favor the rally guys. I'd love
• 46:23
  Speaker 2: to see them jump in a couple of different disciplines
• 46:25
  Speaker 2: and it won't happen for commercial reasons, but a hell
• 46:29
  Speaker 2: of a thing, wouldn't it, Because we able to tell
• 46:31
  Speaker 2: Kyle Larson, yes, you are the best driver in the world,
• 46:34
  Speaker 2: or mate, even logan side. All right, my next one
• 46:42
  Speaker 2: it's like yours. It's for a single line of dialogue
• 46:48
  Speaker 2: and it's don't be such a bogan vouchery you're embarrassed.
• 46:55
  Speaker 2: One hundred and eight points of vouchery botas because that's
• 47:00
  Speaker 2: the distance of this gravel race that he's setting up
• 47:03
  Speaker 2: in Adelaide in the early part of next season. The
• 47:06
  Speaker 2: promo video for it was magnificent in its awkwardness, right,
• 47:12
  Speaker 2: and I love Tiffany Cromwell calling him a bogan and
• 47:15
  Speaker 2: that he was embarrassing because as an Australian, I have
• 47:19
  Speaker 2: never had a mullet. I can't show away from the
• 47:22
  Speaker 2: fact that I've got the mustache, but the mulet I've
• 47:26
  Speaker 2: never had also, nor would i be seen drinking VB.
• 47:30
  Speaker 1: Absolutely fair and I'm from Victoria at that time, but
• 47:34
  Speaker 1: I do like the look. It's great that VB happens
• 47:36
  Speaker 1: to be's initials, so that's great content. I'm going to
• 47:40
  Speaker 1: wrap it up twenty five points off. Tom Coronell, the
• 47:44
  Speaker 1: Dutch former, might actually still be current racing driver. I'm
• 47:47
  Speaker 1: not sure. Not in Formula one anyway for perpetuating the
• 47:50
  Speaker 1: myth that Daniel Ricardo left Red Bull Racing just for
• 47:52
  Speaker 1: the money and hasn't been any good since. I think
• 47:54
  Speaker 1: we fully rebutted this when Jacques Villnerve said the same
• 47:57
  Speaker 1: in Canada. It's just not true. Don't get me wrong.
• 48:00
  Speaker 1: All the money was influential in his decision, but it
• 48:02
  Speaker 1: was for half from the only reason he left Red
• 48:04
  Speaker 1: Bull Racing, and his seasons at Renaut were actually very good,
• 48:07
  Speaker 1: underratedly so. Actually, if you search for Tom Coronell on
• 48:11
  Speaker 1: the internet, obviously on Google or your search engine of
• 48:14
  Speaker 1: choice and select news, you'll find he only ever seems
• 48:17
  Speaker 1: to say disparaging things about people. I'd love you to
• 48:20
  Speaker 1: have a more positive opinion on something at some point, Tom,
• 48:24
  Speaker 1: But I do appreciate if you're on social media. About
• 48:26
  Speaker 1: eight years ago, he definitely followed you, regardless of who
• 48:28
  Speaker 1: you work. Yes, so twenty five points off. I'll limit
• 48:32
  Speaker 1: it to that because I think you're still in my
• 48:33
  Speaker 1: followers list, even I don't really tweet very often at
• 48:35
  Speaker 1: all anymore. But please, let's move on from this silly
• 48:38
  Speaker 1: narrative that Daniel Occado hasn't been good since he left
• 48:41
  Speaker 1: Red Bull racing.
• 48:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he's a World Touring Car Championship driver. Yes, yes,
• 48:46
  Speaker 2: for the time there.
• 48:46
  Speaker 1: As well, wasn't he So he won Formula nip on Yeah,
• 48:49
  Speaker 1: I mean he's.
• 48:49
  Speaker 2: Got some skill, so he's more credentialed behind him than
• 48:53
  Speaker 2: I am.
• 48:54
  Speaker 1: I mean, no doubt, I'm not I disparage him. Not
• 48:56
  Speaker 1: only that. I'm just I think he might still be.
• 48:59
  Speaker 1: He's still racing last year, I think so, you know,
• 49:00
  Speaker 1: I'm not saying I just think he needs to strain in.
• 49:03
  Speaker 1: I feel like we need some more positive talking heads
• 49:05
  Speaker 1: in Formula one instead of all this argie bargie.
• 49:08
  Speaker 2: Enough of the combat.
• 49:09
  Speaker 1: Yes, we don't build a cast combat inform On that note,
• 49:14
  Speaker 1: it's all the time we have for Pit Talk. In fact,
• 49:16
  Speaker 1: we've gone dramatically over time. We'll be back next week
• 49:19
  Speaker 1: to wrap up all the action from the Dutch Grand Free.
• 49:21
  Speaker 1: You can subscribe to pit Talk wherever you get your
• 49:22
  Speaker 1: favorite podcasts, and you can leave us a rating and
• 49:25
  Speaker 1: review as well. Keep up to date with all the
• 49:27
  Speaker 1: lates steff on news throughout the round at foxsports dot
• 49:29
  Speaker 1: com dot Au and Speedcafe dot Com. From Matt Cash
• 49:32
  Speaker 1: and me, Michael Lomonado, thanks very much, for your company,
• 49:35
  Speaker 1: and we'll catch you next week.