Latest / A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast / Talks to Frazer Gregory about his choice of The Happiness Patrol (3/3)

Transcript

Talks to Frazer Gregory about his choice of The Happiness Patrol (3/3) · A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast

0:13
The the.
2:09
I did a good job and then they put me on this.
2:14
It's not fair. I know this podcast.
2:18
I have opinions. I am what I am.
2:24
Welcome back to a hamster with a blunt pen knife, The Doctor Who
2:29
Commentary podcast where I am today, gloriously sharing with
2:36
one of my bestest friends his favorite Doctor Who story, the
2:40
Happiness Patrol. Fraser, Hello.
2:44
Hello. Hello, are you feeling happy?
2:46
I should have read that lane. Which one?
2:51
They put me on this podcast because I have got opinions.
2:55
Also, I was thinking, how do I start this one?
2:56
And there's so many different ways you could do it.
2:58
Can you? I could have just said, look,
3:00
this podcast could only be the work of a schizophrenic,
3:03
obsessive, etcetera, etcetera. See I I make opinions so evil
3:15
but. My opinions are so right.
3:18
That people do not have the emotional capacity to understand
3:23
them. The Happiness Patrol.
3:28
So we've covered it. The set design, we've covered
3:32
the main villain, we've covered some of the actors involved.
3:36
We've covered the Doctor, the Ace, we've covered the script
3:39
editor, the producer. We've what is there left to talk
3:43
about? I think we'll probably go for
3:45
another four or five episodes than me.
3:47
We've gone for the 1st. You or me probably could,
3:50
actually. We haven't covered the pipe,
3:53
people. The pipe people said I was going
3:56
to look that open there, Rick didn't there?
3:58
No, I didn't. There's this great podcast and
4:01
I'll meet you. I could always do Happiness
4:07
Patrol music. You got it.
4:10
No, not yet. 2 minutes. That was supposed to be a
4:30
harmonica. Do do do do do do do do do do
4:40
do. Do.
4:42
You have. It I have it now, yes.
4:43
So when I did my advent calendar of Doctor Who shit as monsters,
4:48
yes, which is in 2022. Day seven was the pipe people.
4:53
OK, what I wrote so it says day seven it's the pipe people of
4:57
Terra Alpha. Now the Happiness Patrol is my
5:00
favorite Doctor Who story of all time.
5:02
So does it really have a shit element in it?
5:05
Of course not. The natives of Terra Alpha may
5:07
not be as well realized as other monsters, but they're still
5:11
visually distinctive. But let's face it, if you're
5:13
going to spend your time crawling through pipes off your
5:15
weird alien tits on Sugar, you're going to look a little
5:18
odd. Now aren't you Pivotal in
5:20
bringing down Helleny, I say. The pipe people are just one of
5:25
many, many things that make the Happiness Patrol so marvellous.
5:30
But what do you say? Are they really shit?
5:32
Ran a poll and 56% of people said no, so there you go.
5:36
I mean, I don't think, I don't think they're shit design.
5:39
I think they're sort of scabby white wrinkly faces and
5:42
terrifying black eyes. It's a good mask.
5:45
I can't. It was quite rude about the
5:47
masks on the special features. This.
5:50
They've got a feel of a mole rat about them, which kind of ties
5:54
into the fact that living underground, there's no sun.
5:57
You know, the, you know, the doctor says they're starving
5:59
because all of all the sugars dried up.
6:01
Even if you were living off sugar, you'd be.
6:04
If you had nothing eat but sugar, you'd be.
6:06
That is how I live my life. I.
6:08
Was trying to try. To I don't drink or smoke, so I
6:11
I'll just eat cake. Yes, I was.
6:13
I was trying to, you know, pick my words carefully there on that
6:15
basis. What are you suggesting?
6:18
I've got the complexion of the pipe people.
6:20
That you are in no means or more of that.
6:25
But off my tits. Yeah, we had alien tits on
6:28
trigger. I feel like what what's lets
6:31
them down is there just isn't the time to give that society
6:37
any sort of It's like those grubs in the web planet that are
6:42
beneath the surface. It's exactly the same thing.
6:44
There's so much going on above the surface, there's no time to
6:46
look beneath the surface. I mean, this is it.
6:48
There's only three episodes in that sort of have to set up the
6:53
the colony of Terror Alpha and what's going on up there?
6:55
I mean, one of the things were what were asked was what would
6:58
you do if it was four parts? And I think have a bit more
7:01
depth about Terror Alpha. I mean, there's there's it's all
7:04
like sugar factories, isn't it's the sugar factories that are
7:07
fallen, you know, which you know, is, is that the main
7:11
economy? Is this like a planet of sugar?
7:13
Is that? Often they export the sweeties,
7:15
yeah. Yeah, you know, and if you do,
7:18
if you have a bit more of that, then that lends a bit more depth
7:21
and a bit more understanding. The candy man, why she's got
7:24
this man made of sweets running around, you know, doing.
7:28
We had shit and in the basement in the kitchen, you know, if
7:32
that was the case, you know, this is a very, you know, the
7:34
sugar based economy and you know, you can, you can do a bit
7:38
with that as well, but. I think there's there's a
7:40
deliberate choice for them to do what they do in Paradise Towers
7:43
and that's give them sort of skewered language, you know, and
7:46
they talk in very brief sort of a few syllables.
7:51
But where that worked brilliantly in Paradise Towers,
7:53
I feel as if it's a little wasted here, especially when
7:57
it's all they're all being played by kids and all the
7:59
voices are dubbed, so you're not really getting a performance.
8:03
Yeah, I think the language works well, though.
8:05
It's it adds a nice little sort of thumb, thumb, no eyes, golden
8:12
golden little bits of comedy, but it's also comedy.
8:20
You call it. Oh come on, it's you laugh.
8:23
You. I'm laughing now.
8:25
Exactly. But it also has.
8:28
I was going to say it's, it's, it's a bit realistic, isn't it?
8:33
Because, you know, if you think, you know, these, this plant has
8:36
been colonized, the natives have been forced underground.
8:39
And if they are learning the language, you know, it's, they
8:43
are just mimicking what they've heard, you know, So that's how
8:46
it's going to evolve. That's how the the people are
8:49
going to evolve and actually speak in speaking our language.
8:53
But, you know, at least we acknowledge that in, you know,
8:58
the upper echelons of alien civilizations created by Doctor
9:04
Who that perhaps don't rank. No, no.
9:09
You know, they're not the Draconians or many things which
9:11
are, you know, absolutely. This is not the type, is that
9:16
there's not the type to actually give them.
9:18
Sort of thing, though. I'd like to see in, you know
9:20
what one of those bars that Steven Moffett stories go to.
9:23
Just a pipe person sitting in the back, you know, Or sitting
9:26
in that cafe in Dragon Fire. Yeah, absolutely.
9:29
You know, the Little can't make little, you know, get four of
9:32
them together in a band. Little Cantina Band.
9:34
They're just sitting there with a, with their, what they're
9:37
called Spears. When we talk about like the
9:44
candy ban coming back and I said, you know, probably the I
9:47
think the candy ban story is probably done.
9:48
There's not much more I want to know about see, but certainly
9:52
the pipe people, you can think, well, yeah, that's if we're
9:56
going to do a sequel, the Happiness Patrol.
9:58
Let's let's have a let's see what happens with the pipe
10:00
people. Let's you know, if someone's
10:02
going to write a novel or a big finish or whatever, Let's,
10:05
let's, let's do a bit more with the the pipe people.
10:09
What would you call that story? Pipes icing.
10:17
As as all the pipe people come down from their sugar addiction,
10:22
We're, we're, we're going on that journey with them.
10:24
You could call it the iced paper.
10:27
Oh well, on that witty note. Yeah.
10:31
Sure, we're going to episode 3. Yeah.
10:33
And then I can see which Big Finish rate as I listen at this
10:35
podcast in about six months time. 5, 4321 off we go.
10:46
Oh, look at it, Fraser. Turgid music, terrible
10:52
deportment. I'm joking.
10:56
It's fabulous. It is.
11:00
I mean, it has one thing we've we've realized in the last 2 1/2
11:04
hours where my voice is going because I've talked so much.
11:08
It's There's lots to say about this story.
11:10
There is like I said, there's so many layers to it that it's just
11:13
that, you know, even even now I'm still picking up stuff, you
11:18
know, watching it again with you that I'm picking up stuff like
11:21
the newspaper ish wallpaper and and that sort of stuff.
11:25
Now you said you really like the cliffhanger for what to ask
11:29
think it's wrong. I think it's in the wrong place.
11:32
What do you mean? Well, if you'd look so we'll
11:34
have the scene where the IT gets painted over.
11:40
The next scene should be the cliffhanger where is.
11:44
Oh, it's Showtime. Yeah, it's Showtime, you know,
11:47
and there's, you know, there's the sort of like the zoom in the
11:50
doctor's face. But I think, you know, when it
11:53
should be ace that gets the cliffhanger.
11:54
It should get the no. I like the subtlety of it,
11:57
though, in a story that isn't very subtle.
12:02
Yeah, I see, I see. We were saying that would be.
12:04
Was that supposed to be then? There was a Showtime and it
12:06
zooms in on on aces face. Yeah, I think that I think it
12:09
was I think it's it's part of the the timing issues.
12:11
You know the lots was cut for to make it fit and obviously they
12:15
haven't had enough, haven't been able to cut enough to have that
12:17
as the cliffhanger still gets bumped to the.
12:23
The way she's stroking that puppet, look at the Fifi and
12:30
then she after she says all of that, she goes happiness will
12:33
prevail. You bloody will be happy.
12:37
Prefer to affect a large scale disappearance because it's not
12:40
emerging, because that's unhappy, so it's happy.
12:44
You know what though, there's a cut there after she sends off
12:47
the squad to deal with the drones and she starts, you know,
12:51
kneading Fifi's hair again and going, oh, I feel so much better
12:56
now she is camper than some. Oh, she is, isn't she?
13:02
But what? What else can you deal with that
13:03
hair? Oh, man, there's a wonderful
13:07
story about Sheila Hancock. The JNT tells about her going.
13:11
There's no way. I've seen the call.
13:13
She's you reckon we're going to do this in a couple of days?
13:16
There's no way we can do this many shots in a couple of days.
13:19
And at the end she went up to him and she goes, I'm really
13:22
impressed. Like they were making this on
13:25
the fly. Oh.
13:27
Absolutely it was. And not to be studied like we
13:30
are. So the fact that it holds up to
13:32
that scrutiny is something of a miracle really.
13:35
I. Just want to go about the sets
13:37
in because you know, this is this is all studio bound, but
13:40
there's an expanse to it as well.
13:43
You know, it doesn't feel like you're just in the corner of one
13:45
studio like you might have done in, in in the 60s when you sort
13:49
of like shooting Scar, for example, in the first Daleks and
13:52
it's all just cramped in tears. There's there's recent expanse.
13:55
I mean, again, that shot there with Macario on the steps and,
13:59
you know, the camera kind of starts off high and then moves
14:02
in, you know, towards them. It really shows you that this is
14:06
actually quite a quite a big set.
14:08
And if it's not a big set, then pops to Chris Clough for
14:12
shooting it in a way that makes it look that way.
14:15
Well, it's big enough because he has to do the long shot of the
14:17
list of the disappeared going all the way down the set.
14:20
It's a visual marker of just how many people she's murdered in
14:24
order to bring them to heel. She had a line, just said.
14:27
I can just imagine Margaret Thatcher saying, you know, as
14:30
she sort of stroking her sausage dog like Helena was with Fifi.
14:33
She goes, what is it? After all, it's for their own
14:37
good. She went and then she goes time
14:40
for a little harmless revenge. I could just imagine Thatcher
14:44
saying that's where a little dog.
14:47
Absolutely. Over there, Fraser a Killjoy,
14:51
dark coat, drooping shoulders. Dear glistening on the
14:56
cheekbone. Summary execution.
15:01
You know what? I feel as if John like doing a
15:03
bit of quoting in this episode. I'd like Susan Q&A's who are
15:08
happy to see me. Oh, Mccoy's going to sing.
15:12
I say something to you, right? I was talking to my other half
15:15
about this story and he really don't like this, and that's
15:18
because unfortunately he's living off borrowed
15:20
embarrassment of this as well. I've been watching it in front
15:22
of his parents, but that bit in the square, he went, oh, it's
15:26
the worst scene in doctor room. You know when Mccoy's laughing
15:29
his head off. Well, all I can say to that is
15:32
go and get your own podcast and talk about it.
15:35
They're nearly there as well. They're getting there, Yeah.
15:38
But I mean, the scene with him singing is, is really
15:41
interesting, I think because this is what I noticed the last
15:45
time after this before. Yeah, it was, you know, McCoy
15:50
isn't a very confident singer, so he kind of he sings it and he
15:55
he kind of he kind of holds back his voice a little bit from like
15:58
trying to like wail on the notes or hit them, anything.
16:01
There's a bit of like a stiltness towards the end.
16:03
And he does pull the kind of face.
16:05
So he kind of acknowledges that on screen is like, yeah, I can't
16:08
really sing so. No, he hits.
16:11
So Rico a case of do or die and he hits it perfect.
16:18
Oh, here we go. Yeah, I really like this
16:21
because. I have a nice death.
16:28
Did you see Helena a second ago when she put Fifi down the hole?
16:32
And then the camera lingers on her while she sort of just
16:34
stares, looking very satisfied. I mean, that is camp, isn't it?
16:39
What, what I thought about this with McCoy laughing.
16:42
And you know, you know, the can't kill us because I'm having
16:44
fun. So it's baby forced, you know.
16:47
What other doctor Can you imagine doing this?
16:49
Especially the ones before. Colin could do this.
16:51
Do you think? Yeah, that sort of massive,
16:54
rambunctious laughter. I think, I think Colin would be
16:58
a bit too. I don't want to say beneath,
17:04
beneath him, as it were. I think, I think you would
17:06
struggle to kind of. He was in time, last remember.
17:10
Yeah, but I think, you know, both the bakers I think would
17:14
struggle with this because they were both be sort of like my
17:17
this is beneath my doctor be. I see.
17:20
I get what you're saying and I get that is deliberately false
17:23
laughter and very over the top. And he's trying to basically say
17:27
this is how fucking pony your whole civilization is.
17:31
I get all of that. It's also deeply humiliating to
17:34
watch, and I can get the the agonized embarrassment of Doctor
17:40
Who fans watching this scene with anybody that is, it's not a
17:43
doctor. Not a Doctor Who fan, I mean.
17:45
Can you imagine you know a normal person watching this?
17:50
Well, it's it's funny because this is one of my my eldest
17:53
spirits as well. Well, I'm not going to cast any
17:57
aspersions on your eldest. You know it's.
17:59
You are his father. Actually, I suppose that goes
18:03
back to being a yeah. He was probably 9-8 or nine when
18:07
we first watched this as well. So, you know, it lands with the
18:10
kids. It really does land with the
18:12
kids. I've got two generations of my
18:15
family now to support that. But yeah, I could.
18:18
I understand. I understand the embarrassment.
18:21
I really do. And it's, it's just such a shame
18:24
that that was the reaction at the time.
18:26
You know, that the, the way Doctor Who was looked at at the
18:29
time was as an embarrassment and not, you know, it's, it kind of
18:35
makes you really appreciate RTD and what he did in those first
18:39
couple of series of bringing the show back and not just making it
18:43
great television. You know, you know it makes it
18:46
camp. Yeah, he, but he makes it
18:49
popular. And I think that's that's, you
18:52
know, because anyone can make great television, you know, you
18:55
can make. I don't think anyone can, you
18:57
know, skilled job. It's, you know, you I.
19:00
Couldn't make great television praiser.
19:02
You probably what I mean is, you know, you can make television
19:05
that's, you know, really good drama, really competent.
19:09
Yeah, you know, you can both To make it popular is is a
19:12
different thing. You know, how many how many
19:14
shows of you know, especially in the sort of fast, fast fashion
19:20
times of Netflix where it's like you get one or two series and
19:23
then we're bored with you and we're moving on.
19:25
You know how how difficult is it now to make something that is
19:29
popular and lasts going forward? I think it really, you know,
19:33
highlights how good a job Rusty did in that first series to say,
19:37
well, I'm not just bringing back something.
19:40
I'm bringing back something that everyone thinks is shit and
19:42
embarrassing. And I'm not just bringing it
19:44
back, you know, I'm going to make it the most popular thing
19:48
of the time to the point where now it's it is one of the crown
19:51
jewels in the BBC's schedule. And it's up there with things
19:55
like Match of the Day and, but I think strictly, strictly.
19:58
What we're acknowledging now is Come Dancing.
20:02
Dancing. Yeah, not hamster.
20:03
And. What we're acknowledging now is
20:06
that this probably should have been as popular as Series one
20:09
was because it has a wet imagination and, you know,
20:12
visual excitement and all of that.
20:15
But it's it's really interesting as well that, you know, when a
20:17
sort of week where the reviews of Space Babies and Devil's
20:21
Court have started coming out in the press, you know, and it's
20:25
it's the. General it's a romp you.
20:28
Know, but what the, you know, the press are doing what the
20:30
press always do, which is knocking down the previous year
20:33
at the promote the current one. So we're getting sort of, you
20:37
know, the and it's laziness because I say it's laziness
20:41
because it's happened all the time.
20:44
You know, when you know, we're getting reviews of, you know,
20:47
Series A, which are, you know, shitting on chip.
20:49
And we had reviews of series 11, which was shitting on Capaldi.
20:54
You know, you had reviews of Moffett, which knocked RTD all
20:57
the way back to here. And I remember I can, you know,
20:59
in the wilderness years, you know, you picked up the Radio
21:01
Times, any article on Doctor Who, any mention of Sylvester
21:06
McCoy as the doctor. I didn't want him involved.
21:08
The BBC did not want him involved in the TV movie.
21:11
They considered him the reason why it came up.
21:13
Why are you involved in this person that killed Doctor Who in
21:17
our expensive new movie? But he, you know, it's, it's,
21:23
it's always happened. It's always been the case that,
21:25
you know, the, the the previous, I don't know if it started here
21:28
because, you know, I don't know whether you know, the, the
21:33
pushed, you know, Sylvester by not in Colin and not in Colin by
21:36
not in Peter. And but certainly, you know,
21:39
when I was growing up, if you had an article in, like I say,
21:42
Radio Times that mentioned Sylvester McCoy, it was he is
21:46
the worst. He is terrible.
21:47
He is, you know, his that's. Coming after the one who was
21:50
sacks, you know. Yeah.
21:53
But, you know, it's kind of like you move forward a few years and
21:56
now we appreciate it. Now we look back and we see
21:58
actually what was happening in 24 and 25 and 26.
22:04
You know, you see that progression.
22:05
You see that, you know, Cartmel comes in 24, takes 24 to find
22:10
his feet. But he hits 25 and you start to
22:12
pull, pull levers. And by your time you get to 26,
22:15
he has got a fully formed vision of his show, of what he wants to
22:19
do. Interestingly, my preference is
22:23
24, but I can see why everybody else's preference is 26.
22:27
Well, not my mine's time, I know.
22:28
Well, I know, I know. Yeah, there was.
22:31
A moment not just because of the nostalgia, it is because I think
22:33
25 gets that balance rate between the two, I think.
22:37
Does have Silver Nemesis as well.
22:39
That just proves my point. There was a moment about four
22:44
scenes back where Sheila Hancock's performance is so
22:48
vital. She starts off by, well, I'm
22:51
going to say it to you now, you know, oh, Fraser, it's a the
22:55
sort of podcast that makes you feel happy to be alive.
22:58
I said, it's a sort of podcast that makes you feel happy to be
23:01
alive. Oh, yes, yes, yes.
23:02
And then she's like, oh, we'll be happy.
23:06
And then she gets bad news. And she's like, no matter what I
23:08
do, no matter what I try, people will always be unhappy.
23:12
And then she suddenly catches herself and goes, But you know,
23:16
we will be happy one day. And you just see how much of A
23:19
facade her bollocks exterior is and how angry she is under the
23:24
surface. It's a great, great bit of
23:27
accent. So what you're saying is every
23:29
time a reader caps lock tweets from Ian Levine, I should read
23:32
it in Sheila Hancock's voice? That's right.
23:36
Oh, look, this is a bit where he picks up the phone.
23:38
Can, man, I don't believe you've met my friend Ace, an expert in
23:45
calification, incineration, carbonization and inflammation.
23:50
I beg your pardon? She's comfort.
23:52
Look at your oven. So that's what him Colin Baker
23:58
does that as well. He he, you gave him word salad
24:01
and even the McCoy and it's just rolls off his tongue.
24:06
Columbia can really deliver as well.
24:07
Chris Clough tries to do this a couple of times in Silver
24:12
Nemesis and it bombs because he doesn't have the space on
24:15
location to have McCoy and Aldridge going around the
24:19
Cybermen like they should be able to.
24:20
But it works brilliantly here where she's got the poker and
24:24
he's got the poker and they're bamboozling him.
24:27
Do you know they they cut out the one of the most chilling
24:31
moments in the story where he cuts off his thumb?
24:36
It's so disturbing because the illusion is that someone cutting
24:40
off their thumb. OK, open the oven door.
24:50
I mean, that flame. I don't know if that's
24:52
acceptable safety standards there, you know with that often.
24:55
Watch this. You know where he goes.
25:04
That's colour. It's hilarious, but you're not
25:06
trying to squish your Candyman costume down that tube.
25:09
Ah, see those guns as well. I think it's things like that as
25:12
well. That's part of the problem with
25:15
some people, those, those outrageous guns.
25:18
But that's the point, right? Yeah, it's just like the GLUT I
25:20
go. No, isn't it?
25:21
It's. I know, but they're they're
25:22
massive and colourful and also murder you.
25:25
Exactly. That's exactly what you would
25:28
have on this society. It's the equivalent of the
25:30
Daleks in 2150 AD. They're massive, colourful, but
25:34
also that steam that they eject is going to kill you.
25:37
Yeah. Oh, the pipe people now are
25:40
playing with pipes, if you'll pardon the expression.
25:44
Oh, they're going to flush the candy man out, aren't they?
25:46
Oh, the music here was like, it's great.
25:52
Oh no. And then he's he's just like a
25:55
weird skeleton when it comes down the sly, isn't he?
25:57
He. Can just imagine him trudging
26:00
along. They're going stupid.
26:02
He was born in the candy kitchen freezer.
26:07
To make no one with his marshmallow slippers, bless him.
26:10
There's so many brilliant reaction shots of Sheila
26:12
Hancock. There's one now where the camera
26:14
pans round onto her and she goes.
26:16
I wonder where he could be. That's it.
26:22
I think she'd be brilliant in a soap.
26:23
You know, where they have to hold the reactions for the
26:25
cliffhangers? Yeah.
26:28
Oh no, the fond of the breeze. He's missing his mouth now.
26:36
Yeah. Why is that?
26:38
Because the film did out of order to the film the scene with
26:40
him in the pipes 1st and then. Decided to put it on.
26:44
Yeah, because I think what's what's the case in the end that
26:47
plays him. David John Pope.
26:50
Yes, his vote, his mouth was too visible.
26:53
So it was a bit sort of like, you know, you know, when they do
26:58
like, you know, mighty Bush, when it's the face of the room,
27:00
it's just like it was just wasn't working.
27:02
Still, I do like the mouth peep because because it's like a gag.
27:06
It feels like he's just escaped from the asylum, you know, it's.
27:09
Metal Tash. It's.
27:11
There's some boys and it's also a smile as well that extends all
27:15
the way around his face. The disease wiped out nearly
27:19
half the population, I. Think this could be the
27:21
beginning of a beautiful friendship?
27:22
Joe Hardly your fault, old chap. It's so Kemp.
27:28
I love it. They must have loved getting
27:32
these scripts. You know, they'd not be playing
27:35
boring old civil servants and suddenly they could play in
27:37
these wacky characters. Oh, look, See, Helena is on the
27:41
move now. She's like I'm.
27:42
Finished. I'm not packing.
27:44
I'm not packing. It's it's it's again, it's that
27:47
sort of propaganda, isn't it? It's what was the guy called
27:50
comical alley where he was like stood in the Iraq war where he
27:53
stood on the on the bottom, the the roof of the palace go no,
27:58
no, there's no one invading. There's no invaders.
28:00
He had like in the background there's the American tanks
28:02
literally behind them. But the fact that she keeps up
28:05
the pretense and makes her she was.
28:07
There's something wrong, is there?
28:08
Daisy K. No, Mum.
28:10
She goes just as the news comes in that 112 factories have
28:13
fallen now and she goes, see, I'm perfectly happy.
28:17
She goes. She walks off.
28:21
Yeah, I mean it. The pace now it is furious.
28:24
It's. Accelerating isn't it?
28:25
And it's, well, it's, it's working because it's kind of
28:28
like we're rattling towards the end now everything's
28:30
unravelling. We've had some good build up and
28:32
it's just it doesn't feel like rushed.
28:34
It doesn't feel like something like like the Dominators where
28:38
it's all of a sudden, oh, there's the plan and this is how
28:40
we stop it and we'll take a hold in two, two minutes and oh,
28:42
we're done. I think I'll be less forgiving
28:45
if you didn't have that extended confrontation.
28:48
Yeah. So there's still a moment for
28:50
the for the villain to be toppled, but by her own wreath,
28:54
which is such a brilliant payoff for that character.
28:57
Absolutely. And I just can't believe how
28:59
moving it was when she's weeping over that puppy.
29:04
Like Sheila. I could give her an Oscar.
29:08
What's yeah, because we had Fifi in the tunnel didn't were again
29:14
the animatronic they've just like obviously just on wheels
29:16
are being pulled as the legs go. But that's a fantastic shot of
29:19
the Fifi just bowling down. And then there's some really
29:22
nice science in there as well where the doctor gets gets I'll
29:27
Sigma to play a note on his harmonica, which brings the
29:31
dance is like he's like, oh, it's a loud noise.
29:33
He said, no, it's the right noise.
29:34
It's resonance. You need to get the resonance
29:36
frequency that's going to vibrate the right frequency with
29:39
the crystal to bring it all down.
29:40
It's not just about making loud noises.
29:41
It's about the right tone, right?
29:43
Interesting kids. It's a note that also that
29:47
sounds like dramatic incidental music, which helps.
29:51
I believe Chris Clough did the voice of Fifi in this.
29:55
The voice, Does he talk? Oh, here she goes.
30:01
Look now through the streets. There's some serious acting in
30:06
this scene coming up. I think it's sublime.
30:10
Yeah, both of them. And it's like, you know, it's
30:13
JNT. The show's on its last legs.
30:15
The BBC hates the show right now.
30:19
And he just still brings in the most brilliant actors to play
30:23
these parts. So you still get moments like
30:26
this. I mean, this is Britt.
30:28
I think Nicholas Parsons is he's best choice.
30:34
Nicholas Parsons coming into. I think Sheila Hancock might
30:37
wing it for me. You expect this from Sheila
30:40
Hancock, who you don't expect Nicholas Parsons to come into
30:42
Fenrick and and do what he does in there.
30:46
The line in a minute where she goes, I know you said it at the
30:48
beginning, when she goes for the good of the majority, for the
30:51
ones that wanted to take the opportunities that I gave them,
30:55
you know, all of that. Oh, it's so Thatcher, isn't it?
30:58
Oh, it's 100% Thatcher. And it's again, it's, it's, it's
31:04
the Doctor doing what the Doctor should do.
31:05
He's he's using words to take it down.
31:07
He's not, it's not guns, it's not bombs.
31:09
It's not a Sonic screwdriver. It's not, you know, a tiny wimey
31:14
what device? It's just words.
31:17
Dialogue. Oh man, I gave them every
31:20
chance, but they still cried. They still wept.
31:24
Don't you? If I feel like weeping, me.
31:27
Oh, my God, we're doing the opposite roles now are those who
31:29
persisted had to be punished, you know, for the good of the
31:34
majority. Fraser.
31:35
Oh, it's great. It's saying something.
31:41
It means something. This dialogue means something.
31:44
Yeah. Thanks Make.
31:46
You happy? And you can literally take happy
31:51
and give it whatever alternative reading you want to give that to
31:54
anything that's oppressed. You could say trans now.
31:58
Yeah, yes, absolutely. You know, you could say gay
32:02
then. Yeah, and it's.
32:04
You could go back to the 60s and you could say women.
32:07
Yeah, you go with the 70s, it could be, you know, race.
32:11
Yeah. Yeah.
32:12
Well, I think you still probably could say race, sadly.
32:16
A place where people pull themselves together.
32:19
That's so Maggie Thatcher, isn't it?
32:21
I always thought love was overrated.
32:26
Oh, beefy. No, I mean, I love dogs.
32:32
He is an ugly one, but oh, bless him.
32:37
And I think Dominic Glynn as the music, the harmonica swells as
32:41
the camera pulls out. It's one of it's so oddly
32:46
emotional, it should be ridiculous.
32:51
There's there's the Doctor. Like an iceberg, but.
32:57
Because he knows she needs to experience this.
33:00
She needs to feel it. And it's like the job done,
33:05
yeah. He should have kept the TARDIS
33:08
pink for a bit, do you? Reckon yeah.
33:12
Oh no, it looks gorgeous on location in Sylvan.
33:14
Emphasis. Blue.
33:17
I love how the the wall take the makeup off now and the wall
33:19
taking the wigs off. Those two camp out women are
33:24
like what they say to each other.
33:27
This is all your fault. Fault.
33:30
I'm glad you're happy there. Aren't any other colours without
33:35
the Blues? Happiness will prevail.
33:41
Actually I like the moonlight the the lighting of this scene.
33:45
I think the lighting is absolutely spot on throughout
33:47
this. You know, like I said, if it was
33:50
neon, if it was over that you really would see, you know more
33:54
of the deficiencies of of filming all studio bound I
33:59
think. Do you think that's an issue in
34:01
Hellenise set? I think it's it's a nice sort of
34:05
contrast. It's it's Don Babbage that does
34:07
the lighting on this. He did the lighting for Red
34:09
Dwarf as well. Really.
34:11
Recognize his name. I'm pretty sure I did a lot of
34:14
the writing lighting for a dwarf.
34:15
So you know he's he's really got got a handle on this he knows
34:18
right so those streets need to be dark.
34:21
You know, we can't have neon, we can't have plastic.
34:24
It's got to be, you know, dark and crumbling and, you know,
34:30
sort of add a bit of a sinister to it inside, you know, candy
34:33
kitchen. It's all, you know, shadows, you
34:36
know, light and shadows inside Heleny's office area.
34:39
That's going to be a lot brighter because, you know,
34:42
that's the control. If we take that sort of like
34:43
Communist Russia analogy again, you know, the that's, you know,
34:48
Putin's house, Heleny's office. So that is going to be well lit
34:52
in the streets are going to not be because, you know, we can't
34:55
afford St. lightning or or whatever.
34:57
So, yeah, the lightning this one really works.
35:00
But I think that end bit where you know the saying, you know,
35:04
you know, happiness can't exist without sadness, You know, you
35:08
can't have joy without soul. And is there a lesson for us
35:13
fans in that, in that because. Yes, you can't just praise
35:19
everything all the time. Sometimes you've got to rip the
35:21
shit out of it as well. Exactly, exactly what I was
35:23
getting that joke because obviously no one's heard our
35:25
strictly come hamster yet where it just got a little a little
35:30
Ted talk about, you know. Ted Talk is the word.
35:35
About, you know, enjoying stories and is it kind of goes
35:41
about what we're talking about with the Timeless Children is,
35:43
is there a place to not enjoy, you know, Doctor Who as well as
35:49
enjoying it? You know, do we always.
35:51
What I'm kind of getting at is, is am I Helen?
35:54
Am I the guy who's coming along and said you must love Doctor
35:58
Who and, you know, always look at the positives?
36:00
You know, should I be taking a lesson from this and saying,
36:02
well, actually let's have a look at the negatives as well and
36:05
say, you know, OK, yeah, Sophie Alden, it's not the best, but we
36:09
still, you know, and taking that as balance or rather than just
36:14
over promoting an over positive utility and everything.
36:21
I don't think you're that person because you're, you know, not a
36:23
tyrant that's forcing everybody at gunpoint to love all of
36:27
Doctor Who. I think that's a personal choice
36:32
that you can make absolutely to be that person that accentuates
36:36
the positive, just without condemning the rest of us.
36:41
You know who who occasionally do like to take a dump from a grey
36:45
hub, but there's so much Doctor Who.
36:47
I don't think anyone can love all of it.
36:50
We can love all of it, but I don't think anyone can
36:52
critically think all of it is the best thing ever and
36:56
wonderful because it's just they would have any sense of
37:00
criticism at all if that was the case.
37:04
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I agree. I mean, I I am that person.
37:08
I am the one that wants to come on podcasts and talk positive.
37:11
I don't want to come on and, and, you know, talk about the
37:14
negatives because it's, it's, it is a bit of an easy option at
37:17
times that, you know, if we came on and talked about something
37:19
like, you know, time flight or market on you, but I feel there
37:23
and just be like, you know, you know, negative, actually
37:26
negative. Author Brownie is an absolute
37:28
classic. What is wrong with you?
37:30
You could, Scott, turn them sound off.
37:35
So, you know, I can be that person.
37:36
I can't be the one that says, you know, and was a certain sort
37:40
of like social media discourse as well.
37:42
You know, someone comes and tell them and says something
37:45
positive. Someone says the opposite.
37:47
And then there's like a back and forth and it's very partisan and
37:51
very negative. So I think I think there is a
37:54
bit of a lesson to say, you know, actually, yes, you might
37:56
love something, you know, other people don't, but there's room
37:59
for both. And in fact, you need to have
38:00
both. You can't just have the one, the
38:03
one output of, you know, everything's wonderful and
38:06
Doctor Who's great. And we should love each and
38:09
every bit of it any more than we would object to someone saying
38:14
the opposite and saying it's all shit and you must hit it.
38:16
And, you know, there's, there's people, there's discourse now
38:19
around new series that's not even shown.
38:21
And then how terrible it's going to be because it's, you know,
38:24
it's got a black queer Dr. in it and that's the worst thing ever.
38:27
And you know, people haven't even seen this and they're
38:29
slagging it off, you know, and oh, it's also work and
38:32
everything. And it's like, you know, don't
38:35
be, you don't want to be that person, but you don't want to be
38:37
the other person that says, you know, everything's fantastic,
38:40
everything's wonderful, everything is awesome.
38:42
And, you know, trying to hide away the the floors.
38:46
I think my, my personal opinion is to be more like the doctor,
38:50
that the balance is what's important.
38:52
Because I think there's absolutely a place in podcasting
38:55
for positive appraisals. And you know, like you and me
38:58
and Sai are coming together and talking about the five doctors
39:01
and absolutely stroking it off. And then people getting a
39:04
nostalgic buzz from us quoting all the lines and saying lovely
39:08
things. But I do think there's a
39:10
absolutely a place for a balanced discussion of good and
39:15
bad and and a bit of a challenge to each other's opinions and all
39:19
of that. Because I think that's the only
39:22
way you really learn. Otherwise it's all confirmation
39:25
bias, and that's the Happiness Patrol itself.
39:32
Good message. Well, look, I'm going to finish
39:36
the questions now. Then we need to get on to the
39:38
three fabulous things, or the nine hundreds, whatever you
39:41
might have, Beeble Brox Co says explain the true beauty of camp
39:48
to the most corduroy of straight people.
39:53
Why are you handing it to me? I would know anything about
39:56
camp. Because I'm the most corduroy of
39:58
straight people. You're not you know, I mean
40:02
you're straight. I wouldn't say you're corduroy.
40:04
You love a bit of camp. What are you talking about?
40:09
The the beauty of camp is actually letting go.
40:12
I think letting go of the embarrassment.
40:15
It's how do I explain it? It's being willing to get up on
40:21
the dance floor when you can't dance and just let go and
40:26
embrace yourself and it and and and in various different ways
40:32
camp, you know, through acting, through singing, through design,
40:36
through your, your clothes choices, whatever.
40:40
It's just freeing yourself of those bloody chains and just
40:44
letting yourself be. And I think everyone's got it in
40:47
them, and I think some people just let it go and other people
40:52
keep it in. And the ones that keep it in are
40:55
the ones that have some problems in life.
40:59
Hallelujah. That was a bit over the top, but
41:01
you do get what I'm saying. Jack Coyer asks.
41:05
What's this? Was this Fraser's favorite story
41:09
on 1st viewing? One of your first stories?
41:13
That's a tough. One, yeah.
41:15
If not, how long did it take to come to that conclusion?
41:21
I mean, it was a favorite, but like I said, it was the second
41:24
one I ever watched. So you know, it's got it hasn't
41:30
got much competition in that respect.
41:32
So, you know, as I've gotten over the years and you know,
41:35
had, you know, watch season 25, watch season 26 go out live and
41:38
then sort of filled in the back catalogue, you know, through the
41:42
through the wilderness years, it's it's kind of kind of stayed
41:47
there. And I've had other favorites,
41:48
you know, things like Genesis, which was a favorite for a long
41:52
time. When did it become the actual
41:55
favorite? It's, it's hard to pinpoint, but
41:58
it's probably, you know, around the time that I got to see it
42:01
again and again and think, well, actually, you know, in, I don't
42:07
think I've had sort of like a light bulb moment of all this is
42:10
my favorite now. It's just been a kind of
42:13
realization over the time that actually every time I watch
42:16
this, I get something new from it and it just adds another
42:19
layer and another layer and another layer.
42:21
And I can't really pinpoint exactly when, but let's just the
42:24
3rd of June 20, 2006. Joe interestingly, a three-part
42:31
all in the studio Sylvester McCoy story with a prestige cast
42:36
is also my favorite Doctor Who story.
42:40
It's just Ghost Live from season 26.
42:42
And how interesting that the corduroy story is my favorite
42:45
and the camp one is yours. Funny how the world goes, isn't
42:49
it? Isn't it, Matt Foy asked.
42:51
Would the Candy Man have been better realized if he had?
42:53
No, excuse me, we've covered that question.
42:55
I'm sorry, Matt, it's asking about the Candy Man being the
43:00
the original. Version the Richard Wilson.
43:03
Just go back to episode 2, Matt, and it's the first half an hour
43:06
of that episode. Oh, another one about the
43:10
Candyman. OK.
43:11
Oh, Peter Auld. Auld asks one word.
43:18
Why? Because.
43:22
There is that everything? Hang on.
43:26
I think we've had a few more come in actually since What's
43:31
your favorite shade of pink? Bubble gum, Pepto Bismol or the
43:34
TARDIS from the Doctor Who and the Daleks normalization.
43:39
That's a great question. Let's go with Pepto Bismol.
43:43
Oh, it tastes ghastly though, doesn't it?
43:45
I'll go with bubble gum. I'm sure I saw one from Brendan.
43:48
OH. Is there?
43:50
Where is it, Brendan? A phrase?
43:59
Rod, Rod, Sorry, asks how can you be so right about the
44:01
Happiness Patrol when you're usually so wrong?
44:05
When I stop being wrong, Rod, I'll answer that question.
44:11
I think you're both wrong all the time.
44:12
So Darren lit roundels. Do you think this is one of
44:15
Sylvester Maccoy's best performances?
44:17
Oh yes, absolutely. Like I say, just you know, the
44:20
scenes that we've talked about, you know that he's got two
44:23
confrontation scenes with with Helen a obviously the latter one
44:26
being the better, but I think the first one's really good.
44:28
The scene with the sniper is is spot on.
44:30
I think you know, even when he is having that moment by
44:33
himself, he's, you know, singing and realising that you Can't
44:35
Sing. I just think it's, but then he
44:38
kind of like pulls the face to kind of, you know, let you know
44:42
he's not kidding anyone. And there's so much into a join.
44:46
I think it is that real balance between the sort of clowny
44:51
Sylvester that we're getting 24 in the really dark manipulator
44:55
that we're getting in 26. You know this is where the
44:59
balance is and it's perfect. He gets to be so Trixie with the
45:02
candy man as well, doesn't he? He does settles.
45:05
The heat from that open oven behind you.
45:08
I think it helps. He's not, you know, the material
45:11
that he's given, you know, is in his wheelhouse.
45:14
There's nothing sort of like Battlefield here outside of it
45:17
where he's having a, you know, full faces or anything like
45:20
that. So yeah, really works.
45:27
All right. I found Brendan's question.
45:29
Oh good. Go on.
45:32
This was the season's all studio story.
45:35
However, what if it had been the all location story?
45:39
What traditional Doctor Who or Blake's seven locations would
45:42
made a good all location terror alpha?
45:46
I don't think you could do it. I'm not sure you could do it on
45:50
location like where. I think you could do it on the
45:57
occasion. I don't think it would be
45:58
necessarily be a sort of like a break 70 sort of, you know,
46:01
quarry or abandoned, you know, factory sort of thing.
46:05
But for me, it would be a big shopping mall or something like
46:10
the Metro Center will appear, you know, you'd, you know, like
46:13
shop fronts rather. Than glitzy affair.
46:15
Yeah. You know, and if you're doing on
46:17
location, you could have, because, you know, they've got
46:19
the glass roofs and everything, so you could have a bit of, you
46:22
know, sudden moonlight coming, coming, coming down from there.
46:25
So I think that would work. I think that you would lose the
46:28
intimacy of the performances on location.
46:32
It would be all long shots and I don't know it would be as much
46:35
about the location as about the performance, but you really
46:39
focus on the performance in those small sets 1.
46:44
Yeah, I've got some more questions underneath Brendan's
46:46
as well. I don't know, I think you might
46:47
have missed these. So Johnny Morris says I first
46:52
saw it in black and white whilst in hospital having my wisdom
46:55
teeth out. Oh, Johnny, I'm sorry about
46:57
that. If you could lose any part of
46:59
your anatomy whilst watching it, what should?
47:05
It be cheeky, can't any. Oh well, my gallbladder
47:10
probably, if I was, could give me a bit of chip.
47:16
Oh no, I'll be having one of those fat extractions because
47:19
I've had too much sugar. I'm watching it.
47:22
There you go that. 'D be my my candy finger that I
47:24
just attached. Yes.
47:28
James H At the time of production and publicity, there
47:32
was the rumor that one or more episodes of this story would be
47:35
done as an animation. What style of animation would
47:38
have been best suited it? And name one other existing
47:42
story that would make a good animation.
47:45
Oh, wow. I think because it is sort of
47:49
comic strip, you know, those Batman animations from the 90s
47:55
where Mark Hamill was doing it, that sort of stuff.
47:58
Style. Yeah, they're mad angles, you
48:00
know, very dramatic and quite pacey.
48:02
I think that would work quite well for The Happiness.
48:04
Yeah, I think sort of like Wallace and Gromit style, sort
48:07
of like stop motion. No, no, I've got it.
48:11
Adrian Salmon from DWN. You know of all the sharp lines
48:16
because he drew a fabulous picture of the Candy Man and the
48:19
Candy Kitchen for the Time Team One, and he's doing the comic
48:24
for the Happiness Patrol sequel. Cookaway.
48:27
Yes, and it's going to be amazing.
48:29
So there you go. That would be my answer.
48:31
And name one of the good existing story that would make a
48:34
good animation. Oh.
48:37
Probably anything from the 7th boxer's era if I'm honest.
48:40
They're made to be comic strips, I think.
48:42
Or animations. Big, bold, wacky ideas.
48:45
Dragon fire. For me, and just because it
48:50
would purely fuck him off, it would be the massacre.
48:55
Yes, yes, actually that's also my answer and the answer for all
49:00
of Doctor Who found them, especially those people that
49:02
handed over 100 lbs. Yes, Gavin Lucan, do you feel it
49:08
would have been better received if the production team had ended
49:11
the serial as Helen A crying over 50?
49:14
Yes, I'm not sure. I'm not sure that last scene
49:18
adds too much, and I think it would have a stronger emotional
49:22
impact if it ended there. Yes, I think that is a very good
49:26
end. And you know, when the camera
49:27
pans out, you can kind of imagine the EastEnders theme
49:31
coming in or whatever. It worked for Paradise Towers,
49:35
didn't it, when it pulled out of Pex lives.
49:39
So, you know, I think I might make a better ending, but would
49:42
it be better received? I don't necessarily think so
49:44
because I think as we've discussed the issues that made
49:47
this, who are they received or more the candy man and you know,
49:54
that sort of embarrassment over that rather than anything else.
49:58
I don't think, you know, just chain, you know, taking one
50:01
scene away from the end is going to change anything that that
50:05
made this unpopular at the time. I've got one here from No Not
50:11
the Mind Pro. What do you think the deadly
50:14
candy glute tastes like after it's been used for execution?
50:20
Rim, Rim, yeah, Probably like sweets that have been on the
50:24
floor. Yeah.
50:27
We've got Lucy McCall. I'm glad you stopped me there.
50:30
I was going to say something really gross.
50:33
Stop it. Lucy McCall has come in with
50:36
snog Marry drowning Strawberry gloop.
50:39
Candyman, Helena Fifi. Oh well, I mean, I'd snog the
50:45
candy bag because that would just be a treat.
50:48
I think. All that sugar.
50:49
Marry Harry Fifi because I think I could live out my life with a
50:54
little doggy. And yeah, I would avoid hella
50:57
day because I don't think she'd be happy with my sexual choices.
51:04
I think, I mean, we'll probably marry Candyman because I feel
51:07
that you're married already, so you might as well snog Heleny
51:10
and drown Fifi in the strawberry group.
51:13
Oh, Fraser, Mavra would be appalled to where you say that.
51:18
Well, like I said, he. But he hates his story, so
51:21
you're appalled by that. And let's see if we've got any
51:25
more. Oh yeah, Daniel Rosley, is there
51:27
a Doctor Who story that you consider to be a spiritual
51:31
sequel or mirror image of the Happiness Patrol?
51:36
Mirror image. I'm going to say the sun makers
51:44
because you've got. Mark said that actually.
51:47
You've got an, you know, outer world Earth colony.
51:51
You've got a story that delves into the politics of the time.
51:56
You've got grotesque villains, two of them, and.
52:00
It's an angry satire that's very cheap.
52:02
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's kind of hamstrung a bit
52:05
by the production values at times.
52:07
So yeah, I would say. Huge over the top performances
52:12
that are glorious. Yeah.
52:14
And in terms of spiritual success, I think there's two
52:19
that stand out. One is midnight.
52:23
Really. Because again, it's this.
52:26
I can see midnight on stage. Oh, OK.
52:30
In that respect, yes. In that respect, all you would
52:33
need for you, you need one set and you can get six actors and
52:37
you can do midnight on a stage, you know, and I think you can
52:40
do, you could stage the Happiness Patrol in the theatre
52:44
as well. I think Creature from the Pit is
52:47
another one that strikes me as always being, you know, that's
52:50
pantomime basically, isn't it? So you could just put that on.
52:53
Honestly, you need very few sets and away you go.
52:56
So in that respect, Midnight, I think the other one is the Pixar
52:59
film Inside Out. OK.
53:03
Where, you know, it's, I don't know if you've seen it, but it's
53:06
all about sort of teen preteen girl who moves home and it's a
53:11
internal monologue, the emotions in a, you know, in a brain
53:16
basically, you know, playing off against each other.
53:18
We should deals with moving from somewhere.
53:21
She was very happy to making a new start.
53:23
And, you know, so you've got this central count of Joy who's
53:26
running around trying to keep everyone happy and trying to
53:28
keep everything, you know, going and, and and save the day.
53:32
And it's not until Joy realizes that she can't exist without
53:36
sadness that you know, the days, you know, the the story comes to
53:42
its conclusion. So from that respect, you know,
53:45
the idea of, you know, there is no happiness without sadness.
53:49
I think inside out. Series one of Desperate
53:52
Housewives did that as well, presenting this perfect,
53:55
beautiful suburbia and then showing you all the stuff that
54:00
was going on beneath the surface, and it was very dark
54:03
indeed. Well, the last one I've got here
54:06
is James Amfrons, who asked. McCoy originally thought it was
54:09
going to be broadcast in black and white.
54:11
Does Fraser think that would have added anything?
54:17
I'm not sure I think if that kind of stuck with the sort of
54:25
noir field with the angles. And you know, if they've if
54:31
they'd leaned into that a bit more, you could have done a lot
54:32
more with sort of L Sigma who was a, you know, like a Private
54:36
Eye rather than a Blues player. Or if you'd lend into that sort
54:41
of angle of it, you know, stuck a fem fatale in there.
54:44
It might have worked better in black and white, but I think it
54:47
probably works just as well in colour as it does in black and
54:52
white. That's the last one I've got.
54:54
You got anymore? Let's see, let me just check
54:58
that one and that one. I'm sure there was another one.
55:17
Oh, David Gillespie Pratt, that's a good one.
55:20
To finish on is David John Pope as the Candy Man delivering not
55:25
only the campus performance in Doctor Who, but all of
55:28
television. It's certainly not the campus
55:30
performance in Doctor Who. I think it's way more sensitive
55:35
than that. Omara and Tom and the raw.
55:37
There is probably the campus performance you're ever going to
55:40
see in Doctor Who, but it's up there.
55:43
Yeah, it's up there. And he says this is where you
55:46
need to do your best candy man impressions.
55:48
Oh. OK, go on.
55:50
What time do you call this? You'll be high, I think.
55:54
What time do you call this? Wow.
56:00
Right. I think that's the questions and
56:02
I think we are on to our nine favorite things.
56:06
Nine, you say? OK, well, off you go.
56:08
Well, we'll see how we go, right.
56:11
Oh, I'll start where I started episode one and talk about the
56:14
sets. I think the set design is
56:15
fantastic in this. I think, you know, for studio
56:19
bound story, the sets really convey that sort of, you know,
56:25
the conveyor sense of scale. You know, you can talk about
56:28
like Terra Alpha itself. The streets of Terra Alpha have
56:30
a good sense of scale about them.
56:32
There's bits and bobs of of really interesting design in
56:35
there where you've got sort of the the pillars of the forum
56:38
square. You've got the little arch
56:41
windows. That's true.
56:41
There's a basement under there. You've got those sort of, you
56:45
know, Communist Russia type mules at the end of alleyways.
56:49
You've got you've got so much that just gives you a sense of
56:53
scale and a sense of, you know, what type of, of colony this is.
56:59
You know, very much, you know, what you're getting told by the
57:01
authority doesn't match what you're getting.
57:04
What's on the streets. The candy kitchen is probably a
57:07
really probably the best set. And I say all those shadows of
57:12
cogs and wheels really add to this, this sense of a very sort
57:18
of Tim Burtony, you know, surreal environment.
57:23
It's it's very sort of like Edward Scissorhands, the candy
57:26
kitchen. You know, when Edward
57:27
Scissorhands is, you know, the, the place where he's built, you
57:31
know, has that same sort of aesthetic to it.
57:33
So set design is my first thing. My first thing.
57:38
It's an obvious choice, but it's Sheila Hancock.
57:41
Beautifully chosen lips, authoritative camp, terrifying.
57:48
I mean, you could throw a million superlatives at her.
57:51
Not an easy role to convey. So you needed someone with a lot
57:56
of gravity and big personality. And I just can't take my eyes
58:02
off her throughout the story. I think it's one of the best
58:04
terms ever. In a in a era where there are so
58:09
many brilliant female villains, Helen A stands out above the
58:14
others I think, and it's because of Sheila Hancock.
58:17
Absolutely agree with that. Second thing I'm going to pick
58:20
then is the lighting to discuss. You know, I think it's it's easy
58:25
for us to forget that, you know, when they were making
58:27
television, when they were making Doctor Who back in the
58:29
day, you know, it's everyone's got a department.
58:32
So, you know, it's it's you know, Chris Clough to the
58:34
director, but he's not doing the lighting.
58:35
He's not doing the costume, he's not doing the property.
58:37
He's not doing the sets Other people are doing.
58:38
You see, you have got your own lighting director, Don Babbage
58:41
in this, who, like I say, is lighting everything very, you
58:46
know, expertly. You know, the streets are
58:49
obviously at night so that the lightning's way down.
58:51
There's not too much, you know, St. lights or harsh neon or
58:54
anything kind of, you know, highlight that it is, you know,
59:01
on the cheaper side, shall we say.
59:03
And the lighting of the candy kitchen, again, as I've talked
59:06
about with those, you know, shadows of wheels.
59:10
So you get this idea that there's stuff going up on up in
59:13
the up in the gantry and cogs turn and all the rest of it.
59:18
And I think you know, the, the, the, the bright lighting and
59:22
Helen is house office, studio, whatever you want to call it.
59:27
Again, the lighting is is a really effective part of this
59:30
story. My second choice is the score by
59:36
Dominic Glynn, which I have talked about quite a bit
59:39
throughout this, but it's in a era of standout scores because I
59:47
think I don't think there is a score in the McCaw area that
59:49
doesn't land. And I will not brook any
59:52
criticism of Kath McCulloch. I've had a musician on now to
59:55
talk about Kath Mcculloch's music who knows his stuff and I
1:00:00
absolutely buy it because I think he delivers great work.
1:00:02
But Glynn is a cut above him and is.
1:00:05
I think this is a really playful, menacing.
1:00:11
It's a thoughtful score that is truly trying to drive the
1:00:15
emotions of the story, and especially at that climax with
1:00:19
the pullback and the harmonica, I think he he delivers the
1:00:24
biggest gut punch of the McCoy era, So bravo Dominic can.
1:00:29
Awesome. I'm going to be a bit broader
1:00:33
than what I've just said and pick just the stage and the
1:00:36
whole thing. I think, you know, as we've
1:00:39
discussed the, the, the option was to kind of go with this and
1:00:42
be as realistic as you can. But you know, Chris Clough and
1:00:46
the rest of the production team have decided to take a step back
1:00:50
from that and stage a very stagey way that is adds a
1:00:54
surreal element to it. And that makes it, you know,
1:00:57
that little bit sort of Tim Burtony aspect to it, which
1:01:02
really works in terms of helping to enhance the, the central idea
1:01:09
of, you know, this, this, this colony where sadness is
1:01:13
forbidden. You know, you can't that's it's,
1:01:16
it's too high concept to fall off realistically.
1:01:20
So there's just take a step back.
1:01:21
So we're not going to do that. We'll do it a bit stagey, not
1:01:24
massively. We're not going to be like, you
1:01:26
know, overboard. And I think maybe as if they had
1:01:29
too many, you know, angles that might lead a bit too surreal.
1:01:35
But I think they've got it just right in terms of the way
1:01:37
they've staged this story to to sell it.
1:01:41
Well, it's quite astonishing that I am going to go for this
1:01:44
and that you haven't already, but I'm going to go for
1:01:47
Sylvester McCoy as the 7th Doctor Who.
1:01:50
I have come to truly appreciate doing this podcast by having so
1:01:55
many people lecture me about how incredible he is.
1:01:58
And I do think there are problems and I do think he has
1:02:01
weaknesses as an actor. But I now I've come to the
1:02:05
conclusion that when he's on it, it's the most Doctor Y Doctor
1:02:09
we've ever had. And he is a delight to watch.
1:02:14
But here in this outrageously theatrical camp, Doctor Who
1:02:21
story, he's so menacing. He's so brooding in this.
1:02:27
Like I say about a lot of Season 24, he's scariest thing in it.
1:02:31
No, he's brilliant. And in particular the scene with
1:02:36
the snipers and the confrontation with Helen A he's
1:02:40
doing some serious fucking acting in those scenes.
1:02:43
He can do it regardless of what I've said in the past.
1:02:48
And yeah, just incredibly good in this story, apart from the
1:02:53
after scene. I think my next thing's going to
1:02:57
be sort of the subtexts that are in this.
1:03:00
You know, we've talked about the sort of sort of the queer
1:03:04
subtext around, you know, having to hide your real personality.
1:03:10
I think that's a really effective one.
1:03:11
And, you know, the consequences of that, of what was going on at
1:03:14
the time. I think the subtext around, you
1:03:18
know, the totalitarian regimes where we're kind of comparing
1:03:22
the current government to overseas governments, which are
1:03:25
very, you know, fascist and, you know, making that sort of sort
1:03:34
of book direct link is a really excellent subtext as well.
1:03:38
And you know, just, you know, the general message as well
1:03:41
that, you know, like I say, happiness and sadness must go
1:03:44
sight to say you can't really appreciate one without the you
1:03:47
can't really appreciate good Doctor Who if you're not
1:03:50
allowed, not prepared to consider bad Doctor Who as well.
1:03:52
So that's a good message. Good lesson for me as well.
1:03:57
Oh, my God, I hasn't fought ahead.
1:03:59
Now, I'm certainly not going to say Sophie Aldred.
1:04:02
Oh, yes, I know. I would like to Lord Georgina
1:04:08
Hale and Rachel Bell as the two. Oh, sorry.
1:04:15
And Leslie Dunlop. So the three actresses playing
1:04:18
the Happiness Patrol, because they're all doing different
1:04:21
things. Dunlop's very naturalistic and
1:04:24
has a wonderful chemistry with Sophie Aldridge, and you can see
1:04:27
that because in the special features, there's scenes of them
1:04:31
between the scenes, sorry, footage of them just having the
1:04:35
best time laughing, the red soft.
1:04:37
And apparently they're friends to this day.
1:04:39
So Dunlop, Dunlop's playing it for real.
1:04:41
Georgina Hale is just somewhere in another universe delivering,
1:04:48
you know, he is obviously a spy, but it's it's the most
1:04:54
imminently quotable lines in this story because who wouldn't
1:04:59
want to try and deliver a line like Georgina Hale?
1:05:03
And I think she's very fun to watch.
1:05:05
And Rachel Bell, just because she's got the difficult job of
1:05:09
being like, the villain of the Happiness Patrol, you know, the
1:05:12
assassin dressed up in all that bloody slap.
1:05:17
And actually, she is quite menacing when she's talking
1:05:20
about, you know, I was good. I was on the street so I could
1:05:23
sniff them out. She is quite scary.
1:05:27
So I think all three are doing different things, but they're
1:05:30
all watchable in different ways. Absolutely.
1:05:33
I'm going to pick the story itself, which I think you know,
1:05:37
I said is the kernel. It's the the grit that gives you
1:05:40
the oyster. It gives you the Pearl grit in
1:05:42
the oyster. It gives you the Pearl is is
1:05:44
just the the story itself. And you know, we start with this
1:05:48
high concept idea of what imagine a world where sadness is
1:05:52
forbidden. We build around that, you know,
1:05:55
we then expand that and we look at, you know, what that would
1:05:59
look like. Who would be the person running
1:06:01
that? You know, your crafty story
1:06:03
around that and the story itself.
1:06:05
You know, this idea of the Doctor coming in as being person
1:06:09
on a mission rather than just stumbling in.
1:06:11
We've got this very new series idea of the Doctor Who's
1:06:14
actually coming with a purpose, with a mission.
1:06:17
He is coming in to to take this down and and that's what he
1:06:20
does. The script of, as we mentioned,
1:06:24
has got some fantastic zingers in it.
1:06:25
And you know, it's got these wonderful scenes, some of them
1:06:30
which unfortunately will have lost.
1:06:31
But I'm pretty confident we'll get back on this special edition
1:06:34
in in the collection. But all the character moments in
1:06:37
there in just that, you know, all the subtext that goes with
1:06:41
it and all the, you know, the message at the end.
1:06:45
This is a fantastic story. You can see why you know what
1:06:49
Andrew Cartmel was wanting and what he's he's wanting to do
1:06:54
with Doctor Who. He's wanting Doctor Who.
1:06:56
That's entertaining. What is, you know, packs a punch
1:07:01
as well, And that's that's what Russell does.
1:07:05
Now, you know, Russell makes Doctor Who for kids and adults
1:07:08
alike. And this is a very much a sort
1:07:10
of, you know, the kids have got plenty of visuals to enjoy.
1:07:13
The adults have got a message. They've got, you know,
1:07:16
characters that can relate to it.
1:07:17
Again, it's Pixar as well, you know, Pixar, you know, make sure
1:07:21
the kids are looking after, but always Chuck some stuff in for
1:07:23
the adults to enjoy that they know the kids weren't.
1:07:25
So I think this story does exactly.
1:07:27
That's a it's just, you know, fantastic from starting to end.
1:07:32
Well, I'm not going to like to this point because we've talked
1:07:34
about it a lot in the commentary, but the Candy Man is
1:07:39
a fucking awesome bastard. Yeah, that's my next point.
1:07:46
Yeah, that was going to be my next point as well.
1:07:48
And the Candy Man is just, it's a triumph of design.
1:07:53
It's a triumph of execution. In terms of performance, it's
1:07:59
probably one of the most memorable.
1:08:01
That's a triumph of scripting as well.
1:08:03
Yeah, yeah. All those sweet lines he gets.
1:08:06
Yeah, and, you know, so the candy man was going to be my my
1:08:09
final thing if you weren't going to pick it.
1:08:11
It's all in there somewhere, Fraser.
1:08:13
Caramel, Jellic nights. It's all in motion, yes.
1:08:18
And I really am. It really does, you know, make
1:08:23
us a little bit sad that, you know, the candy man had such a
1:08:27
reaction with so many people that this story went on love for
1:08:30
so long. You know, like we've said,
1:08:34
sadness can't exist. You know, happiness can't exist
1:08:37
without sadness. So I am happy.
1:08:39
I know that that balance does seem to be getting redressed.
1:08:42
And hopefully the nigh on 4 hours we've spent talking about
1:08:45
this three or three, four hours that we've spent talking about
1:08:50
the story's gone a little way to redressing that balance and
1:08:53
hopefully bring a bit more, a bit more joy into people's
1:08:58
people's lives. You know, that sort of hypno
1:09:01
suggestion that they do, you know, during wartime.
1:09:05
You know, this is what this commentary is.
1:09:07
You know, we talked long enough about the Happiness Patrol.
1:09:10
Everyone will love it. Yeah, about to work with the
1:09:13
dominators, so. Well, what I am going to ask you
1:09:16
is where are we going next? And after our season 20, that
1:09:24
strictly come hamster you. And I've already talked about a
1:09:27
story that we're going to cover. And I feel as if we should go
1:09:31
there because you said about the King's demons that you think
1:09:37
everyone's having a great laugh making that story.
1:09:39
Yeah. Well, I can tell you now
1:09:41
everyone is having a great laugh making happiness patrol because
1:09:45
I can see the footage of the the the laughter between the actors
1:09:48
between takes. I want as much detail about this
1:09:53
jolly time in the King's Stephens as we have with a I'm
1:09:59
willing to be persuaded. At the moment I think it's a
1:10:02
turd. But are you, are you prepared to
1:10:05
take on that challenge? Oh yes, Oh yes.
1:10:10
Are you sure your will is strong enough?
1:10:12
Yeah. What is it going we come to
1:10:16
praise of Total Fun? Yeah.
1:10:24
Bye will be fools and medieval misfits and all of those other
1:10:29
dreadful lines that Anthony only gets to say, and we will cover
1:10:32
the King's demons. But before that, let me please
1:10:36
say thank you for taking on this challenge because I know you
1:10:41
sometimes are a bit apprehensive about talking about stories that
1:10:44
you, you know, that are close to your heart.
1:10:47
And now you're sort of ticking them all off Genesis and the
1:10:50
Daleks Happiness Patrol. You know, I'm sure there's,
1:10:53
there's plenty more to come, but that was such a gloriously
1:10:57
thorough and engaging reading on the Happiness Patrol.
1:11:02
I thank you very much. As if.
1:11:04
And thank you for making me do it.
1:11:08
I'm not saying the word.