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The Murder of Audrey Trudeau · Wicked and Grim: A True Crime Podcast

• 0:07
  Speaker 1: In February of 1999, a 44-year-old woman was preparing to
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: leave Calgary behind and begin a new chapter of her
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: life back home in Ontario. But just weeks before she
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: was supposed to leave, she suddenly vanished, leaving behind her car,
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: her belongings, and a family who knew immediately that something
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: wasn't right. As police began digging into her disappearance, they
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: soon uncovered forged cheques Traces of blood inside her home.
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: And eventually, three sealed cardboard boxes hidden inside a Calgary
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: garage that contained human remains. This is the story of
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: the murder of Audrey Trudeau. My name's Ben.
• 0:55
  Speaker 2: I'm Nicole. And you're listening to Wicked and Grim.
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: A true crime podcast. listener discretion is advised.
• 1:28
  Speaker 2: We're doing a Canadian case.
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: It is a Canadian story for sure.
• 1:33
  Speaker 2: That's frigging awesome. I feel like it's actually been a while.
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: It has been a while since we've come to Canada
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: to tell a true crime story. And I like to
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: come back every once in a while. I mean, I
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: like to go all over the globe, to be honest.
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: But I have found that I've been going to the
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: UK a lot recently in these stories.
• 1:49
  Speaker 2: Okay. Okay, this is actually, this just reminded me, this
• 1:52
  Speaker 2: is when people find out that we have a true
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: crime podcast. I feel like the question I get right
• 1:57
  Speaker 2: away Is, oh, okay. Like, do you just do like
• 2:00
  Speaker 2: Canadian stories?
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: I get that all the time too.
• 2:03
  Speaker 2: That's almost like the first question. Yeah. And I'm like, no,
• 2:06
  Speaker 2: we do like all over the world.
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 2:08
  Speaker 2: But I, I do know there's like quite a few
• 2:11
  Speaker 2: podcasts and stuff out there that do strictly like just
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: do their own country and stuff. So it makes sense,
• 2:16
  Speaker 2: I guess.
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: It does, but it's odd that it's the first question,
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: like not what kind of stories or how many episodes
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: or anything like that. It's, oh, just Canadian stories. It's
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: interesting that that's the first choice. Yeah.
• 2:29
  Speaker 2: And then comes the disbelief that a person can do
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: a podcast and they will have a million questions and
• 2:36
  Speaker 2: that's your job. It's quite interesting, actually. It is.
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: It really is. Speaking of podcasts actually being our job
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: and everything, I do want to give you guys a
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: heads up today. I've had a bit of a sore
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: throat the past few days. So if I sound a
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: bit raspy by the end of this episode, just you
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: know why. I feel fine now. I feel a little
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: bit of a tickle there. but it might wear in
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: by the time we get to the end of this story.
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: So your voice is just going to progressively get more
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: sexy as the case goes on.
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: Sexy or sickly, one of the two. We'll roll the
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: dice and figure out which one it's going to be.
• 3:08
  Speaker 2: Okay. That sounds like a fun game.
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: Sounds like a fun game. Sexy or sickly, what is
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: it tonight? I don't know if I want to roll
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: those dice.
• 3:16
  Speaker 2: Oh my God.
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: I think I'm good. Wow. Anyways, if you're ready, I
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: think we should just dive into the story today.
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm ready to get into this one for sure.
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: Okay, well, let's do it. So in early 1999, Audrey
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: Trudeau was preparing to make a very big change in
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: her life. At 44 years old, she had spent much
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: of her adult life moving around Canada. But after years
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: living in Alberta, she decided it was time to return
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: to Ontario to be closer to her family. Now, Audrey
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: was born on June 8th, 1954. in Peterborough, Ontario, into
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: a rather large family. She had 11 brothers and sisters,
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: and although adulthood eventually scattered some of them across the country,
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: family remained a very big part of her life. Audrey
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: attended the University of Toronto, graduating in 1976 with a
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: degree in physiotherapy. It was a career that suited the
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: woman whose friends remembered someone who was almost instinctively willing
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: to help other people. It just fit her. Now, her
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: career eventually took her out west, and from there, Audrey
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: spent time in Moose Jaw, Saskatchewan, and later lived in Fernie,
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: British Columbia as well, before settling permanently into Calgary, Alberta. There,
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: she purchased a two-story townhouse in the southwest neighborhood of Glenbrook,
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: and built a very comfortable life for herself. Soon, she
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: got married, but the marriage ultimately ended in divorce. Nevertheless,
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: she remained on friendly terms with her former husband. who
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: was reportedly dealing with some serious illness around the time.
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: So in 1999, Audrey lived in her townhouse with her
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: 10-year-old black and white cat, who she named Missy. Friends
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: described Audrey as financially responsible, social, and well-liked. She didn't drink,
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: but enjoyed going out with friends and having meals with
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: friends and co-workers instead that way. They could drink, sure,
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: but it's not something she partook in. One of her
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: longtime friends, Karen Hartnick, had known Audrey for roughly 20
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: years and remembered a camping trip in Montana that they
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: went to when Audrey noticed an elderly woman at the
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: neighboring campsite who was struggling with a broken walker. Now, Audrey,
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: being the person that she was, went over and immediately
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: helped her repair it. Then, not only that, she continued
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: checking on the woman over the course of the following
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: days while they were there at the campsite to make
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: sure that the repair was holding up.
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: Wow.
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 5:40
  Speaker 2: That is like a gem of a human, hey?
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah. For sure. And it was something that like her
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: friends considered very typical of her. In fact, they even
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: said that Audrey could even sometimes be generous almost to
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: a fault. Oh, okay. Now, professionally, as I mentioned, Audrey
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: worked as a physiotherapist and she worked at the Connell
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: Bench Hospital in Calgary. When the hospital closed in 1997,
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: she transferred to Rockview General Hospital. And during her years
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: working in Calgary's hospital system, Audrey became friends with a
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: hospital porter named Deborah Point, a Calgary native who Audrey
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: had known for more than a decade by 1999. Now,
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: Deborah had graduated from Central Memorial High School in 1978
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: before attending school in Montana on a volleyball scholarship where
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: she studied to become a teacher. She was athletic, popular,
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: and known to many people by the nickname Chris. By
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: the late 1990s, however, Deborah was struggling financially. She developed
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: a serious gambling problem involving electronic lottery machines like digital
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: slot machines, for example. But apparently her gambling debts had
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: become severe enough that in 1997, her parents even took
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: out a second mortgage on their home to help her
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: out of her situation. Then two years later, after a
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: breakup with her partner, the then 38-year-old Debra was again
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: in debt, this time reportedly owing approximately $ 8, 000. Now, at
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: the same time, Audrey was beginning to reconsider where she
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: wanted to spend the next part of her own life.
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: And in late 1998, she visited a niece who had
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: recently had a baby. And since most of Audrey's siblings
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: and their families were still in Ontario, that's when she
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: kind of convinced herself that she wanted to move closer
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: to them. So she began looking for work and secured
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: a physiotherapy position in St. Mary's Hospital in Kitchener, Ontario,
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: which she was expected to begin in the middle of
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: March of 1999. Now, when she made this decision, Audrey
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: began preparing for the move rather quickly. She contacted a realtor,
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: put up her Glenbrook townhouse for sale. And with the
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: little time before the move, she and a realtor even
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: decided against completing every possible repair instead of, you know,
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: planning to upsell your house kind of thing. Just get
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: it on the market and adjust the price accordingly. So
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: she didn't even really bother like doing a bunch of
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: massive painting or anything to maximize the profit. Her priority
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: was simply just moving. She intended to drive from Calgary
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: to Ontario, and Missy, her cat, was supposed to make
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: the trip with her. But knowing that that long drive
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: could be very difficult for a cat, especially one that's
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: senior like Missy was, Audrey even took Missy to a
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: vet and obtained some standard tranquilizers to make the journey
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: much easier. So in late January 1999, while Audrey was
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: preparing for all of this and the move, Debra's relationship
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: with her partner, meanwhile, had come to an end, and
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: she needed somewhere to stay. So... Audrey offered her a
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: spare room in her townhouse while Debra tried to get
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: back on her feet. Audrey told her sister Fran Trudeau
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: about the arrangement over the telephone, but Fran was a
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: bit uneasy. She knew of Debra a little bit, and
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: she warned Audrey that she didn't trust her. But Audrey
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: went ahead and offered the offer anyways, telling her she
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: can stay there.
• 8:59
  Speaker 2: Well, yeah, because someone needed help, and she just seems
• 9:03
  Speaker 2: like that kind of person, right? That no matter what,
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: she'll help them. Yeah.
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: Now by Thursday, February 25th, 1999, Audrey was approaching the
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: end of her time in Calgary. Her townhouse was officially
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: listed for sale, most of the arrangements for her move
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: had been made, and the following day was supposed to
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: be her final shift as a physiotherapist at Rockview General Hospital.
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: Her co-workers were even planning a farewell party for the
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: upcoming Friday, while Audrey was expected to begin the drive
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: to Ontario not long after that. Now Thursday evenings also
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: had a familiar routine for Audrey. See, she belonged to
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: a bowling lake, and she regularly spent the evenings bowling
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: with her friends. So on February 25th, Audrey attended her
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: regular bowling night. Afterwards, she was still in contact with
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: people all through evening as it was winding down. At
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: approximately 9pm, she even spoke with a friend over the telephone.
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: Now that call became particularly important, because it was the
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: last confirmed moment Audrey had with anyone outside her townhouse home.
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: So whatever Audrey did after that call was not immediately known.
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: Now the first indication that something was wrong came in
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: the morning, only hours later, even though no one knew
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: at the time that it was in fact an indication.
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: As we know, Friday, February 26th, was supposed to be
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: Audrey's last day at Rockview, with her co-workers throwing the
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: going-away party for her, expecting to have that one final
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: day together before she left for Calgary. Instead, however, a
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: message was received at the hospital saying that Audrey wasn't
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: going to be coming in because she was dealing with
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: some kind of family emergency over in the neighboring province
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: of British Columbia. It was disappointing that she wasn't going
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: to arrive for work that day, missing the farewell party
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: intended for her, but emergencies happen, and her co-workers understood.
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: As Friday passed into the weekend, Audrey remained out of contact.
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: Her family began trying to reach her, and her sister,
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: Fran Trudeau, called the townhouse, more than once in fact,
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: and tried to speak with Audrey, but only got Debra.
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: At first, Debra simply told Fran that Audrey wasn't there.
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: Fran asked that, You know, Audrey could give her a
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: call when she got back in, but no call ever came.
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: Fran called again, but still wasn't able to speak with
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: her sister for whatever reason. And eventually, Fran was giving
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: an explanation, though. She said that Audrey had gone to
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: British Columbia before making her move over east. One version
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: was that she wanted to take a short vacation. Another
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: explanation that Audrey's family was receiving was that she wanted
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: to say goodbye to the mountains before leaving Alberta. And
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: Fran didn't really understand this. Audrey was in the middle
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: of moving across the country. She had a home to sell,
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: belongings to deal with, and a new job waiting for
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: her in Ontario. And more strangely, even though she was
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: said to have gone on a trip to British Columbia, well,
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: her car was still in her driveway in Calgary.
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: Well, and honestly, she probably would have told her sister, right?
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: Exactly.
• 12:08
  Speaker 2: That she was going on this little holiday.
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: 100%. Now, Fran couldn't think of anyone Audrey was suddenly
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: traveling to British Columbia to visit either because that was
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: another reason. It's like, hey, she's going over there to
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: visit someone or whatever. There was a few explanations that
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: were circulating. And Audrey's friends and co-workers began speaking with
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: one another and they discovered that different people had heard
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: different stories about where she'd gone. Some had been told
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: about a family emergency. Others heard Audrey had gone to
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: meet someone. And another version was her going to the mountains,
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: say goodbye to the mountains or vacation and and some
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: were even told that Audrey had become depressed. Now, one
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: account even claimed Audrey had planned to meet a man.
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: She'd become nervous about doing so, but had insisted that
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: it was something that she needed to handle alone. Now, ultimately,
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: none of them had spoken directly with her since February 25th,
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: not even her family. As the days passed, the silence
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: became harder to explain. Audrey was known as dependable, and
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: simply disappearing without telling anyone and can And going off
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: like this, it was completely out of character for her.
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: Just as you said, she probably would have at the
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: very least told like her sister. Her family expected to
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: hear from her before she even began the drive east
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: heading to Ontario. Audrey planned to call them at different
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: stops along the journey, telling them how the trip's progressing.
• 13:30
  Speaker 2: Well, yeah, it's a long journey.
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: So why would she just suddenly go west and not
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: communicate when she's planning on going east and communicating?
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: Doesn't make sense.
• 13:39
  Speaker 2: Even someone like I... I've, what, learned about her for
• 13:42
  Speaker 2: 10 minutes here? It's like, this ain't right.
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: Exactly. So they're just left in the dark and they
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: don't know why. Audrey's co-workers began comparing their stories that
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: they heard. And the more they talked, the less any
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: of them seemed to see that these made sense. And
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: several of them even encouraged Audrey's family to contact police
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: so that her disappearance could be formally investigated. Meanwhile, the
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: date Audrey had spent weeks preparing for was getting closer.
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: She was supposed to leave Calgary. drive east with her belongings,
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: and begin the next stage of her life in Kitchener, Ontario.
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: But Audrey never began that trip. She never called from
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: the road. And she never arrived in Ontario. By March 11, 1999,
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: two weeks had passed since anyone could confirm seeing or
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: speaking with Audrey. And that day, one of Audrey's brothers
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: contacted the Calgary Police Service on behalf of the family
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: and officially reported her missing. From there, Police quickly began
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: retracing Audrey's final known movements. They confirmed that she had
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: been bowling with her friends on February 25th and had
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: spoken with a friend on the telephone at approximately 9pm
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: that evening. After that call, there was nothing. Investigators also
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: began speaking with Audrey's friends and co-workers and almost immediately
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: encountered the same problem her family had. There was no
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: consistent explanation for where Audrey had supposedly gone. Police also
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: went to Audrey's townhouse. Her car was still there, which
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: seemed particularly strange if Audrey had left Calgary. And now Deborah,
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: who was still living at the home, answered the door.
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: And she told investigators that she was also worried about Audrey.
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: But according to Deborah, Audrey had wanted to see the
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: mountains one last time before leaving Alberta. From there, Deborah
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: voluntarily went to the police station for an interview. There
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: she told investigators that she and Audrey had been living
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: together since around the end of January, and she said
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: there had been no disagreements between them or anything like that.
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: Debra repeated the story that Audrey had gone to the mountains,
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: simply planning to travel to Kelowna, BC, before moving to Ontario.
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: According to her account, Audrey had left on Thursday, on
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: the evening of February 25th. Debra also said that Audrey
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: had told her that if she wasn't back by Friday,
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: Deborah could go to Rockview and collect Audrey's final paycheck
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: for her. She also said Audrey had left her vehicle
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: in her care and had given her a valuable sapphire
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: diamond ring to look after while she was away.
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: Holy, this is just, oh man. I just feel like
• 16:20
  Speaker 2: if I was a police officer listening to this, I
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: think it would just be so far-fetched that I wouldn't
• 16:26
  Speaker 2: believe a word she's saying.
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: It is far-fetched, especially considering... I know these roads well.
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: So do you. We've traveled them many times. So going
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: from Calgary to Kelowna, that's about an eight hour drive.
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: So she was last known to be at her, well,
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: last contact, I guess, last known contact was that Thursday
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: at 9 PM.
• 16:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: But now Deborah's saying she left that Thursday in the evening. Yeah.
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: So sometime after 9 PM to midnight in that three
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: hour span, because that's The remainder of the evening.
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: She's going to drive to Kelowna.
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: Not drive because she left her vehicle.
• 17:03
  Speaker 2: Oh, okay.
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: But if she is driving a rental car or someone
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: else's car, it's an eight-hour drive. So she has to
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: go to the airport, book a ticket, and make that flight.
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: I don't think there was a flight there at all.
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: I couldn't find. I tried to research it, but I
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: could not find if there was or was not. But
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: police would easily be able to find it, and I'm
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: sure they did not find that there was that. So
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: I digress.
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: So either she traveled by car, which is an eight-hour drive,
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: which she clearly didn't because her car was there, or
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: she flew. That's about it. There was no flight. Now,
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: also the fact of, well, if she's not home by Friday,
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: that doesn't make sense.
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: No.
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: Because Friday is the very next day.
• 17:45
  Speaker 2: Okay. See, I wondered if that was just something I misheard.
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: But yeah, because that makes zero sense.
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: Unless I'm misinterpreting the information because there was no specific
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: date I could find unless it was the following Friday
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: that she met.
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: So that is the cog in that information.
• 18:00
  Speaker 2: See, still, I was kind of alarmed to hear that
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: she didn't get reported missing for two weeks, but I
• 18:06
  Speaker 2: guess she was kind of in a time of her
• 18:09
  Speaker 2: life where it was a little bit up in the
• 18:10
  Speaker 2: air and she's moving and has a lot on the go.
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: So I think that kind of almost contributed to it
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: being that long.
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: I think so. Okay. Yes, definitely. So whatever the case
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: with this odd story, That's what it was. It was
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: just an odd story, but nothing more. The condition of
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: Audrey's townhouse also needed some explaining, though. You see, inside
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: the home, police noticed that some of the carpeting had
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: been pulled up and removed. Debra told investigators that the
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: two of them had discussed removing the carpet on Wednesday,
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: which was the 24th, and that they had taken it
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: out the following morning, before Audrey went to work. She
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: even described Audrey as already selecting possible parquet flooring to
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: replace it. However, the police weren't prepared to accept that
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: explanation without looking into it themselves. So Deborah gave investigators
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: permission to search the townhouse. However, they were lucky enough
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: to have something useful to compare the home's current condition against.
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: And that was the photographs Audrey's realtor had taken roughly
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: a month earlier while preparing for the property sale. Now
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: those photos showed the townhouse and what it looked like
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: before Audrey went missing. The missing carpet, of course, immediately
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: stood out. It was obvious. But investigators also noticed something
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: else in those photos. There was a comforter that was
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: previously visible in the realtor's photos that was no longer
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: on one of the beds. Forensic officers began examining the
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: townhouse room by room. They used luminol, which is a
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: chemical commonly used to reveal possible traces of blood that
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: may no longer be visible to the naked eye after
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: it's cleansed.
• 19:50
  Speaker 2: Up.
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: And the testing? Well, it produced some troubling results. Investigators
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: found traces of blood inside the townhouse, and they also
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: identified what appeared to be drag marks leading from the
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: main floor towards the basement. Now, police did not disclose
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: what they had discovered. But internally, the investigation had completely changed.
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: Audrey was still officially missing, yet investigators now had reason
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: to believe that something serious had happened inside her home.
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: Outside the investigation, Audrey's friends were reaching similar conclusions for
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: very different reasons. In fact, her co-workers began searching for
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: Audrey themselves. Therapists from Rockview went through parks, while others
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: found themselves scanning roadsides and ditches as they drove. looking
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: for anything that might explain where Audrey had gone. But
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: Debra's behavior was also attracting attention. Coworkers knew that Audrey
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: had disappeared, but Debra had been driving Audrey's car, and
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: she also had possession of her ring. They were also
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: aware that Debra had borrowed money from people at the
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: hospital before and had a gambling problem, so there was
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: some suspicion. And combined with the changing explanation about Audrey's whereabouts, well...
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: Some of those around her began taking notes on what
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: Deborah was telling them. Now, on March 15th, Deborah herself
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: called Calgary police to ask whether there had been any progress.
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: But police told her Audrey was still missing. They hadn't
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: located her. They did not tell her specifically about things
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: like the blood found in the home or anything. But
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: they said they kept looking, and they did. And as
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: investigators continued digging into Audrey's life, they found another area
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: that demanded investigation. attention, and that was her finances. You see,
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: there had been activity in Audrey's bank account after her
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: disappearance had occurred. On February 26th, the morning Audrey was
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: supposed to be at her final shift at Rockview, a
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: check bearing her name had been cashed. Investigators expanded on
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: their examination of the account and discovered that this wasn't
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: an isolated transaction either. Between February 6th and February 26th,
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: there had been 12 checks in total slightly more than $ 5, 100
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: in total, that were drawn from Audrey's account. And police
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: determined that Audrey's signatures on those checks had been forged. Now,
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: if you're keeping track of the dates, those checks were
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: coming out before Audrey even went missing. She went missing
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: on February 25th. They began on February 6th.
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: Wow. Okay, this is just freaking brutal.
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: Investigators confronted Debra about the checks during an interview. One
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: investigator even told Debra that there were too many unexplained
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: circumstances surrounding Audrey's disappearance and that they all seemed to
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: point towards her. But still, suspicion wasn't enough and Debra
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: was allowed to leave. Now, near the end of March,
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: Audrey's sister Fran traveled to the townhouse. Debra and her
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: mother were packing up boxes and Fran was advised by
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: the police to remain civil while she was there And
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: she tried to do exactly that. But when she saw
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: Audrey's ring, it changed. It was sitting on the kitchen
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: table and Fran immediately challenged Debra on it. If Audrey
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: had simply gone away, Fran knew her sister would not
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: willingly have left behind the expensive sapphire and diamond ring
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: that she regularly wore. Fran took it and, despite Debra's objection,
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: she contacted police. Officers came to the townhouse that day
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: and Fran turned the ring over to them, But by
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: the end of March, 1999, Audrey Trudeau had been missing
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: for more than a month. And another interview followed on
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: March 31st with Deborah. This time detective Dave Olson put
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: the investigator's suspicions directly on her even more. He suggested
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: that Audrey's decision to move to Ontario without her had
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: caused an argument and that Deborah had become angry enough
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: to seriously injure her inside the townhouse. Of course, Debra
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: denied it. She insisted she would never hurt Audrey and
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: said that she had done nothing wrong. Police subsequently asked
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: Debra to take a polygraph examination, and she agreed. However,
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: several days later, she withdrew that and declined, saying that
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: her lawyer had advised against it. And after that, Debra
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: stopped speaking with investigators and refused further questions or requests
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: for interviews. The problem for police was that Suspicion and
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: evidence of unrelated financial crimes did not tell them where
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: Audrey was. They still had no body, no murder weapon,
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: no confession, no eyewitness, or anything. Investigators continued examining the townhouse, though,
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: looking for different things that they could find, and the
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: circumstances surrounding the missing carpet. They talked more with Audrey's realtor.
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: She received a call from Debra on March 6th, during
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: which Debra had said that she and Audrey had spilled
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: something on the carpet on and that it needed to
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: be removed. Now that explanation differed from the renovation account
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: that Debra had given police already, in which she said
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: that Audrey and her had decided on removing the carpet,
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: and on February 24th it was removed, and it was
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: going to be replaced with a parquet flooring. So again,
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: stories don't line up. Investigators also located two garbage collectors,
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: who remembered carpeting being in the garbage bin on February 26th,
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: It stood out to them because it had fallen out
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: of the dumpster while they were loading it, but by
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: the time police found the collectors, however, the carpet itself
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: had been dumped off and it was gone and couldn't
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: be recovered for examination. Soon the weeks became months, and
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: Audrey's family was left trying to live with not knowing
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: where she was. Fran even sought crisis therapy to cope
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: with the stress. The family wanted Audrey to be found,
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: even as their hopes were fading about her being found alive.
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: Investigators were in much the same position. They believed foul
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: play had occurred and had a clear primary suspect, but
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: they needed something more. They needed something capable of breaking
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: the investigation wide open. Then in June of 1999, another
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: woman contacted police. Her name was Paula Moore, a friend
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: of Debra's. See, Paula had discovered unauthorized activity involving her
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: finances and suspected Debra was responsible. Apparently, there were unauthorized
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: credit card charges and two forged checks with a total
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: approaching $ 4, 000 that she found. Paula ended the friendship and
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: contacted police immediately. Now, police viewed this complaint as potentially
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: very significant because it appeared to fit the pattern they
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: had already uncovered in Audrey's finances. Then nearly five months
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: had passed since the night of February 25th. And on
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: July 21st, 1999, Calgary police reported received a call. Several
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: young men arrived at a detached garage on 33rd Avenue
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: Southwest in Calgary to collect some belongings. The garbage belonged
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: to Paula Moore, the same woman who had recently contacted
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: police about Debra and the credit card fraud and the
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: checks and everything that she ended the friendship over. It
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: was used largely for storage, this garage. It was crowded
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: with boxes and other belongings. But as the garage door opened...
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: the men were immediately hit by an overwhelming smell. They
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: began looking for the source of it and traced it
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: towards several cardboard boxes stored near the back. There were
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: three boxes that had markings on it from Allegiance Health,
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: a company that supplied medical products. And at least one
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: of them had the name Chris written in black marker
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: on them. Chris, as I mentioned, was a nickname Deborah
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: was known to use. The boxes had been heavily secured
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: with duct tape, and the smell appeared to be permeating
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: through the entire garage coming from inside them. One of
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: the young men, identified as Todd, decided to open a
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: box and take a look. Inside, he immediately found mothballs
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: thrown on top and multiple layers of garbage bags. But
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: as Todd pulled the packaging apart, he saw what appeared
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: to be a human leg. Todd immediately called over another friend, Ryan,
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: to take a look at what he just found. Ryan
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: also looked inside, and he confirmed that he believed these
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: were human remains. So Todd quickly contacted Paula, who was
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: the one who had all her stuff in this garage,
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: and he told her what he had discovered. And when
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: she asked whose name was written on the box, he said, Chris.
• 28:48
  Speaker 2: What a brave soul to look in there, though. I'm unsure. Yeah.
• 28:53
  Speaker 2: I would be able to.
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: I'm not sure if I would either.
• 28:57
  Speaker 2: And then he finds something that's very bad and here,
• 29:02
  Speaker 2: come look at this, like pulls his friend into it too.
• 29:05
  Speaker 2: Oh my gosh. But it's just probably because it was
• 29:07
  Speaker 2: like unbelievable. You kind of needed a second set of
• 29:11
  Speaker 2: eyes on it, I guess.
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: Oh, for sure. For sure. I mean, comedically, my brain
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: goes to like a courtesy sniff. Like you have like
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: a container in the fridge of like moldy food you
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: smell it's like oh it's so gross dude smell this
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: and yeah you know it's gonna be gross and he
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: smells it too that's kind of where my mind goes
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: but i know that's not the situation here it's more
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: of like you're saying am i seeing what i'm really.
• 29:33
  Speaker 2: Seeing yeah like my mind is playing tricks on me
• 29:36
  Speaker 2: this isn't what it.
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: Is yeah dude can you help me here? Confirm this.
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: Is this what I think it is? I'm pretty sure
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: that's how that played out. Now, Paula returned to the
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: property after being called, and she looked inside too, and
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: they immediately called police after that. Calgary officers soon arrived
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: and began examining the three packages. One officer used a
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: knife to cut through the tape sealing the remaining boxes. Inside,
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: they found human remains that had been deliberately divided and
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: packaged for this storage. The remains had been placed inside
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: garbage bags, and the bags put into the cardboard boxes
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: and mothballs had been added, apparently in an effort to
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: control the smell of decomposition, but that clearly did not work.
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: One box contained a head and a torso. A second
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: contained severed arms and legs. And a third contained a
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: blood-soaked comforter. Given the circumstances, investigators immediately considered the possibility
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: that the remains belonged to the woman that they had
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: been searching for since March. And sure enough, the remains
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: were identified as that of Audrey Trudeau.
• 30:47
  Speaker 2: No. No. This is not okay.
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: Well, of course it's not okay.
• 30:54
  Speaker 2: I don't know. This is like breaking my heart. Kate.
• 30:56
  Speaker 2: Because this Debra bitch, like she was, they were friends, right?
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 31:01
  Speaker 2: Oh, okay. This is difficult to listen to. Jeez.
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: Police began working backwards from that garage. Paula had previously
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: allowed Debra access to the detached garage, giving her a
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: key in early March. That access had ended after Paula
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: discovered the financial activity that she believed Debra was responsible for.
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: So took back the key and she no longer had access,
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: leaving the remains to sit there until they were discovered.
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: Investigators also learned that Debra had not necessarily moved the
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: boxes there alone, in fact. One woman came forward after
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: the news of the discovery became public, and she told
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: police that Debra had asked her for help to move
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: boxes into Paula's garage in early March. Now, the boxes
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: themselves offered another lead. That was the Allegiance Health markings.
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: This gave investigators somewhere they could trace the boxes, and
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: that trail pointed back towards the hospital system where both
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: Audrey and Debra had worked. Police soon heard from another
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: witness too. That woman was Nicole Botter. Nicole had told
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: investigators she remembered seeing Debra at the hospital between approximately
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: 8 and 8.30 a.m. on February 27th, the morning after
• 32:12
  Speaker 1: Audrey had failed to appear for her final shift. And
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: Nicole was unusually confident about the date because she had
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: actually been keeping track of physical symptoms in a journal
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: before receiving a positive pregnancy test on March 5th. So
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: her dates and everything on how things played out were
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: documented and documented well. Nicole asked Debra whether she was
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: working that morning, but Debra said that she wasn't. She
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: was there to get boxes for moving. Investigators were able
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: to examine information associated with the hospital boxes, including markings
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: and a waybill showing that the boxes of that type
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: had been delivered to the hospital on February 26th. Now,
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: the friend who helped Debra move those boxes into Paula's garage, well...
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: They were told that the boxes contained computer equipment, and
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: the friend even used their own pickup truck to help
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: transport them. Investigators placed Debra under covert surveillance at this point.
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: They didn't move in for an arrest. A Calgary newspaper
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: published an article reporting that a body had been discovered
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: in the garage at that address, although Audrey had not
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: been publicly named. Officers watched Debra as she encountered that report.
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: They continued following her. making no immediate arrest or anything,
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: they just watched. At one point, Deborah was driving a
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: station wagon, belonging to a relative, and surveillance officers noticed
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: something inside the rear of the vehicle. More cardboard boxes,
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: bearing the words, Allegiance Health. At one point, Deborah stopped
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: and got out carrying something, and officers lost sight of
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: her for roughly 30 to 40 seconds before she returned
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: to the station wagon. Investigators, after she left, went to
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: the area where she had briefly disappeared from view. found
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: a dumpster and inside was a garbage bag when they
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: opened it they found a piece of a cardboard box
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: cut or torn from it and written on it in
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: black felt marker was the name chris according to investigators
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: recounting the discovery the name appeared in the same location
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: and handwriting style as chris on the boxes containing audrey's
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: remains from here it was on july 22nd 1999 one
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: day after Audrey's remains were discovered, when police took Debra
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: into custody. During the recorded police interview that followed, investigators
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: told Debra what had happened, that people were cleaning the
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: garage on 33rd Avenue and had discovered suspicious boxes containing
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: human remains, and that an autopsy had now positively identified
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: those remains as Audrey. But, of course, Debra denied knowing
• 34:47
  Speaker 1: anything about it. Police were prepared for that, though. So next...
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: they began layering out other pieces of their investigation. They
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: told her they had the bank surveillance showing her access
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: to Audrey's money and confronted her about her financial problems.
• 35:02
  Speaker 1: Most importantly, they told Debra that Paula said that she
• 35:06
  Speaker 1: was the person who had put the boxes in that garage,
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: but Debra still denied it. Now, that didn't matter, though.
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: Investigators informed her that she was being arrested and charged
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: with a second-degree murder. Finding Audrey also allowed investigators to
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: return to the evidence they had first encountered months earlier,
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: which was the crime scene. So now that they're in,
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: they're actually doing examination, while the results that they found
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: were much stronger this time. They found blood for usable samples,
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: and testing established that the blood recovered from the basement,
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: dining room, and bathroom all belonged to Audrey. Now the
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: photographs from Audrey's realtor also showed that the comforter had been,
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: you know, missing from the townhouse. And when police searched,
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: it was gone. They couldn't find it. But that same
• 35:53
  Speaker 1: comforter was now recovered from one of the boxes containing
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: Audrey's remains. And of course had her blood on it
• 35:58
  Speaker 1: as well. The evidence was becoming connected all across the board.
• 36:05
  Speaker 1: Separate parts of the investigation were coming together. Things that
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: for months police were unable to identify were now all
• 36:12
  Speaker 1: part of one single puzzle. Audrey's blood was inside her townhouse.
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: Carpet had been removed shortly before she was last known alive.
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: Bedding photographed inside the home had been packaged with her remains.
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: Medical supply boxes were found at the scene that were
• 36:26
  Speaker 1: also linked back to the hospital. The friend helping Deborah
• 36:30
  Speaker 1: move them into Paula's garage and where Audrey's dismembered remains
• 36:33
  Speaker 1: were found were marked with the name Deborah commonly used,
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: the nickname Chris. Plus, there's the additional box flap that
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: was marked Chris discarded along the route during police surveillance.
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: Police had spent nearly five months trying to determine what
• 36:47
  Speaker 1: had happened to Audrey. And now, unfortunately, that all meant
• 36:52
  Speaker 1: prosecutors were preparing for a case that was almost entirely circumstantial.
• 36:58
  Speaker 1: If you look at the evidence, there was no eyewitness
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: to Audrey's murder. There was no confession. Police had never
• 37:04
  Speaker 1: recovered a weapon used to kill her. Even Deborah's lawyer
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: would later acknowledge that while there was no single piece
• 37:12
  Speaker 1: of evidence that solved the case on its own, though,
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: the circumstantial case against her, it was extremely strong. Honestly,
• 37:20
  Speaker 1: I kind of feel like this is just a slam dunk, really. Well,
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: it kind of is, but that's the thing. It's all
• 37:27
  Speaker 1: on circumstantial evidence. It's just that clerical circumstantial versus actual
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: evidence on hand. So it's nothing that– there's no murder weapon.
• 37:35
  Speaker 1: There's no surveillance footage of her It's all secondhand.
• 37:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: People saying, people seeing, people thinking.
• 37:42
  Speaker 2: But there's too much.
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: That's the case. That's the key.
• 37:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 37:46
  Speaker 1: That's the key that's making it strong. That's what's taking
• 37:48
  Speaker 1: them to court. That's what they're relying on. We might
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: have circumstantial evidence, but as you're saying, it's so much
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: circumstantial evidence that it paints quite a vivid picture.
• 37:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah. There's no question almost who the hell did this, really.
• 38:03
  Speaker 1: No, I'm not arguing over the fact of how strong
• 38:05
  Speaker 1: the evidence is. I'm just saying- It's all circumstantial. No, yeah,
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: you're right. Now Debra's trial began in October of 2000.
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: The Crown's case was that Audrey had given Debra somewhere
• 38:19
  Speaker 1: to live when she had nowhere else to go, only
• 38:22
  Speaker 1: for Debra to take advantage of that kindness while struggling
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: with money and gambling addictions. Then during the weeks Debra
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: lived with Audrey in her townhouse, she had forged checks
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: belonging to Audrey. Prosecutors argued that Audrey discovered approximately $ 5, 000
• 38:35
  Speaker 1: was missing And that confrontation followed on the evening of
• 38:40
  Speaker 1: February 25th, 1999. The Crown alleged that Audrey was murdered
• 38:45
  Speaker 1: during that confrontation and that Debra subsequently dismembered her body.
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: It was a theory of motive, however, not something anyone
• 38:54
  Speaker 1: had witnessed. Debra disputed that $ 5, 000 would have given her
• 38:59
  Speaker 1: a reason to kill Audrey. And she testified that her
• 39:03
  Speaker 1: parents had previously paid more than $ 20, 000 in gambling debts
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: for her and they would have helped her out again.
• 39:10
  Speaker 1: The physical evidence, on the other hand, was much harder
• 39:13
  Speaker 1: to explain away. The jury heard that Audrey's blood had
• 39:16
  Speaker 1: been identified in the dining room, bathroom, and basement of
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: her townhouse. How photographs taken by Audrey's realtor before her
• 39:23
  Speaker 1: disappearance show the carpeting was now gone, and that there
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: was this bloody, missing comforter from the bed. That comforter,
• 39:32
  Speaker 1: of course, would be recovered with Audrey's remains. Then there
• 39:36
  Speaker 1: were the boxes. A friend testified that on February 28th,
• 39:40
  Speaker 1: Debra asked for help moving those boxes that she claimed
• 39:43
  Speaker 1: contained computer equipment into the garage where Audrey's remains were
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: eventually discovered. The boxes were traced to the Rockview Hospital,
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: and a co-worker placed Debra at the hospital collecting very
• 39:53
  Speaker 1: similar boxes on February 27th. Then the name Chris. It
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: was written on the boxes containing Audrey. But not only that,
• 40:01
  Speaker 1: the medical evidence also showed just how violent Audrey's death
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: had actually been. The medical examiner identified 15 separate injuries
• 40:11
  Speaker 1: to the back of Audrey's head. They were described as stabbing, bashing,
• 40:17
  Speaker 1: and crushing type injuries. Consistent with an axe-like weapon. And
• 40:23
  Speaker 1: all 15 were concentrated to the back of her head
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: and were severe enough to cause her death. The autopsy
• 40:31
  Speaker 1: also described one particular devastating blow that was more to
• 40:35
  Speaker 1: the side of Audrey's head, still kind of on the
• 40:37
  Speaker 1: back though, and it shattered her skull, along with the
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: other injuries, and some were reportedly approximately two to three
• 40:46
  Speaker 1: inches long. Now, because Audrey's remains had spent months inside
• 40:51
  Speaker 1: an unheated garage through the end of winter, spring, and
• 40:55
  Speaker 1: into summer, decomposition prevented the chief medical examiner from establishing
• 41:00
  Speaker 1: an exact time of death. But the condition of her remains, however,
• 41:05
  Speaker 1: was considered consistent with Audrey having died around the time
• 41:07
  Speaker 1: that she disappeared. Now, the trial also brought a more
• 41:11
  Speaker 1: personal dispute to the courtroom. What kind of relationship Audrey
• 41:16
  Speaker 1: and Deborah had? actually had. Debra testified that she and
• 41:23
  Speaker 1: Audrey had been romantically involved and that she intended to
• 41:27
  Speaker 1: actually move to Ontario with Audrey. And some testimony reportedly
• 41:32
  Speaker 1: supported parts of that account, including a hospital co-worker who
• 41:35
  Speaker 1: said Audrey had spoken about a relationship with Debra and
• 41:39
  Speaker 1: Debra potentially following her east. But other people close to
• 41:43
  Speaker 1: Audrey strongly disagreed with it. Audrey's longtime friend and co-worker,
• 41:48
  Speaker 1: Karen Hartnick said Audrey was excited about returning to Ontario
• 41:52
  Speaker 1: and was not taking Debra with her. While Audrey's family
• 41:55
  Speaker 1: maintained that the women were friends and roommates and not
• 42:00
  Speaker 1: romantic partners. Now, whether it's true or not, ultimately the
• 42:04
  Speaker 1: Crown did not need to prove the exact nature of
• 42:07
  Speaker 1: the relationship or establish one definitive motive. It needed to
• 42:11
  Speaker 1: prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Debra had murdered Audrey,
• 42:15
  Speaker 1: and that's what was important. Deborah herself took the stand
• 42:20
  Speaker 1: and maintained that she did not kill Audrey. She said
• 42:24
  Speaker 1: she did not dismember her and she was innocent of
• 42:27
  Speaker 1: this crime. The defense emphasized what the prosecution did not have.
• 42:33
  Speaker 1: And that was no eyewitness, no confession, no single smoking
• 42:37
  Speaker 1: gun to prove otherwise. But the jury did have the
• 42:42
  Speaker 1: whole accumulated chain of circumstantial evidence that we've discussed. The
• 42:46
  Speaker 1: jury consisted of eight women and four men, and after
• 42:50
  Speaker 1: hearing weeks of evidence, they deliberated for a total of
• 42:54
  Speaker 1: two days. And in November of the year 2000, they
• 42:58
  Speaker 1: returned with their verdict. Deborah Point was found guilty of
• 43:03
  Speaker 1: second-degree murder. Now, a conviction for second-degree murder carried an
• 43:08
  Speaker 1: automatic life sentence, but the court still had to decide
• 43:11
  Speaker 1: how long Deborah would have to wait before she could
• 43:14
  Speaker 1: apply for parole. And soon that period was set for
• 43:18
  Speaker 1: 20 years. Justice Susan Bensler described Audrey Trudeau's murder as
• 43:26
  Speaker 1: an extraordinarily brutal surprise attack. She emphasized that Audrey had
• 43:31
  Speaker 1: been helping Deborah when she needed somewhere to live, only
• 43:34
  Speaker 1: to be killed in her own home. Now, despite everything
• 43:39
  Speaker 1: heard during the trial, however, the court could not establish
• 43:42
  Speaker 1: with certainty exactly why Deborah had killed her. The Crown
• 43:47
  Speaker 1: had presented the missing money and forged checks as a
• 43:50
  Speaker 1: likely source of confrontation, but the precise motive just remained unresolved. Deborah,
• 43:56
  Speaker 1: of course, continued to maintain her innocence. She appealed her conviction,
• 44:01
  Speaker 1: but it remained in place, leaving Deborah to serve her
• 44:03
  Speaker 1: life sentence primarily at the Edmonton Institution for Women. And
• 44:08
  Speaker 1: as the years passed, Deborah developed a strong institutional record.
• 44:13
  Speaker 1: In fact, by the time she sought an early opportunity
• 44:15
  Speaker 1: for parole, even her lawyer described her record as exemplary.
• 44:20
  Speaker 1: But what had not changed was Deborah's position on Audrey's murder.
• 44:24
  Speaker 1: She still denied killing her and refused to accept the
• 44:27
  Speaker 1: responsibility for that crime. In 2014, after approximately 15 years
• 44:33
  Speaker 1: in custody, Deborah applied for a reduction of her parole
• 44:36
  Speaker 1: ineligibility period through Canada's former Faint Hope Clause. The provision
• 44:42
  Speaker 1: had allowed certain prisoners serving life sentences with lengthy parole
• 44:45
  Speaker 1: ineligibility periods to ask a court for an earlier opportunity
• 44:50
  Speaker 1: to seek parole after serving at least 15 years. Although
• 44:54
  Speaker 1: the law was abolished in the year 2011, offenders whose
• 44:58
  Speaker 1: crimes predated the change could still qualify and apply. The
• 45:03
  Speaker 1: application eventually came before Alberta Chief Justice Neil Whitman. Audrey's
• 45:08
  Speaker 1: family submitted victim impact statements, opposing Deborah's attempts to reduce
• 45:12
  Speaker 1: the 20 year period. And ultimately her application was dismissed.
• 45:18
  Speaker 2: Thank goodness.
• 45:20
  Speaker 1: Deborah remained in custody and was eventually transferred to Buffalo
• 45:24
  Speaker 1: sage wellness house, where she participated in the facilities, indigenous
• 45:28
  Speaker 1: focused programs, despite not identifying as indigenous herself over time.
• 45:35
  Speaker 1: She progressed through the correctional system and towards release. And
• 45:39
  Speaker 1: in the year 2021, Deborah was granted day parole. Then
• 45:44
  Speaker 1: in 2024, more than two decades after she was convicted
• 45:49
  Speaker 1: and only two years before the recording of this episode,
• 45:52
  Speaker 1: she was granted full parole. By that point, she was
• 45:57
  Speaker 1: living and working in Edmonton, Alberta. And Deborah was also
• 46:00
  Speaker 1: in a relationship with another offender who was herself on
• 46:04
  Speaker 1: full parole too. Deborah remained subject to conditions of her parole, however,
• 46:10
  Speaker 1: including a probation against gambling and requirements to regularly provide
• 46:14
  Speaker 1: documentation concerning her finances. One thing, though, remained unchanged. Deborah
• 46:22
  Speaker 1: still denied killing Audrey. More than 20 years after a
• 46:27
  Speaker 1: jury found her guilty, there was still no admission explaining
• 46:30
  Speaker 1: what had happened inside Audrey's townhouse and on the night
• 46:33
  Speaker 1: of February 25th, 1999. For Audrey's family, Deborah's eventual release
• 46:38
  Speaker 1: reopened a wound that would never really close. Audrey's sister
• 46:43
  Speaker 1: described the loss as something she did not believe she
• 46:46
  Speaker 1: would ever get over. And more than 25 years after
• 46:49
  Speaker 1: the murder, Audrey's relatives are still living with the absence
• 46:52
  Speaker 1: of a woman they remembered as exceptionally giving and deeply
• 46:56
  Speaker 1: devoted to the people around her. Her co-workers remembered her too.
• 47:01
  Speaker 1: And over the years, several memorials were created for Audrey
• 47:04
  Speaker 1: at Rockview, the hospital where she had spent her final
• 47:07
  Speaker 1: years of her career. It was a career Audrey had
• 47:11
  Speaker 1: been preparing to leave behind in February of 1999, but
• 47:15
  Speaker 1: only because something new was waiting for her on the horizon.
• 47:19
  Speaker 1: She had sold the idea of Calgary to herself years earlier,
• 47:22
  Speaker 1: built a career there, bought a home, created a large
• 47:25
  Speaker 1: circle of friends, and then by the age of 44,
• 47:29
  Speaker 1: she decided it was time to go back to Ontario.
• 47:33
  Speaker 1: There was a job waiting for her in Kitchener and
• 47:35
  Speaker 1: a family she wanted to be closer with, including a
• 47:38
  Speaker 1: new generation she was excited to see watch grow up.
• 47:43
  Speaker 1: Audrey was only days away from beginning that new part
• 47:46
  Speaker 1: of her life when she disappeared. For nearly five months,
• 47:50
  Speaker 1: her family was left wondering whether she might somehow still
• 47:53
  Speaker 1: walk through that front door or make a phone call
• 47:55
  Speaker 1: that they were waiting for. But when she was finally found,
• 47:58
  Speaker 1: they learned... She never left Calgary at all. The criminal
• 48:03
  Speaker 1: case ultimately established who was responsible for Audrey's death. It
• 48:07
  Speaker 1: produced a conviction, a life sentence, and decades of incarceration.
• 48:11
  Speaker 1: But what it never produced was an explanation. And more
• 48:15
  Speaker 1: than a quarter of a century later, Deborah Point continues
• 48:19
  Speaker 1: to deny responsibility while Audrey Trudeau's family and friends continue
• 48:23
  Speaker 1: to remember a woman whose life was supposed to be
• 48:27
  Speaker 1: starting over. And that's the story of Audrey Trudeau.
• 48:34
  Speaker 2: Damn, this is a freaking sad one.
• 48:38
  Speaker 1: It's a heartbreaking story for sure.
• 48:40
  Speaker 2: This one just like devastates me, honestly. And freaking Debra.
• 48:45
  Speaker 2: So if she didn't do this, who the hell did then?
• 48:49
  Speaker 1: That's the thing. She did do it.
• 48:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 48:52
  Speaker 1: She's trying to say she didn't, but yeah. Okay, prove otherwise.
• 48:55
  Speaker 1: Where's any evidence that you didn't do it?
• 48:57
  Speaker 2: There is no one else that could have done this.
• 49:00
  Speaker 1: All the evidence is showing she did do it. So yeah.
• 49:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Imagine being that person to that help move those boxes.
• 49:08
  Speaker 1: Oh, I can't imagine.
• 49:09
  Speaker 2: That would just, I don't know. I don't know how
• 49:12
  Speaker 2: I would live with that. I mean, you were just
• 49:14
  Speaker 2: helping a friend and you had no idea, but then
• 49:17
  Speaker 2: to later find that out, just that would just... that
• 49:20
  Speaker 2: would kind of sting actually.
• 49:22
  Speaker 1: Well, it's not only a matter of you finding out
• 49:24
  Speaker 1: that you helped move a body, you, you transported someone's
• 49:30
  Speaker 1: butchered remains unknowingly, but it's not just that it's a
• 49:33
  Speaker 1: matter of, I helped the murderer.
• 49:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 49:37
  Speaker 1: The murderer was sitting next to me. I was helping
• 49:39
  Speaker 1: the murderer move these remains unknowing. Like, holy fuck. Don't
• 49:44
  Speaker 1: get me wrong. Like you said, you don't know. It's
• 49:46
  Speaker 1: not that person's fault whatsoever. But that would, that's a
• 49:49
  Speaker 1: gut punch.
• 49:50
  Speaker 2: Well, the audacity to have Debra even like implicate someone
• 49:54
  Speaker 2: like that.
• 49:54
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 49:56
  Speaker 2: Like if you're going to do something like this, figure
• 49:58
  Speaker 2: it out, I guess, on your own. And don't, you know,
• 50:01
  Speaker 2: put that on your friends or whatever. Like, holy shit.
• 50:04
  Speaker 1: Well, and then it was storing it in someone else's garage. Yeah.
• 50:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Oh, like it's just so sad. And it, I mean,
• 50:11
  Speaker 2: so often it's always just like beautiful people, right? That
• 50:16
  Speaker 2: this happens to.
• 50:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 50:17
  Speaker 2: She was literally helping somebody who was down on their
• 50:21
  Speaker 2: luck and that's her repayment.
• 50:25
  Speaker 1: Well, and that's the thing. Monsters prey on kindness. Yeah.
• 50:28
  Speaker 1: They do. And Audrey was kind. She was showing kindness.
• 50:32
  Speaker 1: She was showing empathy. She was reaching out a hand
• 50:34
  Speaker 1: to help. And she took advantage. Not only did she
• 50:38
  Speaker 1: take advantage, she was taking, literally trying to like take
• 50:41
  Speaker 1: her life. She was living in her town. What if
• 50:43
  Speaker 1: that didn't sell?
• 50:44
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 50:44
  Speaker 1: She was probably just going to live there. She was
• 50:46
  Speaker 1: driving her car. She was wearing her fucking ring.
• 50:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. Oh my gosh.
• 50:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 50:55
  Speaker 2: This one is just like, it's not okay. And I
• 50:58
  Speaker 2: feel like it's shit like this that makes people make,
• 51:03
  Speaker 2: Like less kind.
• 51:04
  Speaker 1: It is.
• 51:04
  Speaker 2: Because like look what can happen, you know?
• 51:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, it's too dangerous to let someone live with me.
• 51:09
  Speaker 1: I can't do that. I got to worry about my
• 51:11
  Speaker 1: own safety or my kids or my animals or my family.
• 51:13
  Speaker 1: I can't help. I'm sorry. Because people take advantage. Because
• 51:18
  Speaker 1: of people like Debra.
• 51:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 51:20
  Speaker 1: Who's a fucking bitch. I'm sorry. You know what? No.
• 51:23
  Speaker 1: She's a fucking cunt. Yeah. I'm sorry. She is.
• 51:25
  Speaker 2: And she's just out and about now. Yeah. Living her life.
• 51:28
  Speaker 1: Which I hate.
• 51:29
  Speaker 2: I freaking hate.
• 51:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 51:31
  Speaker 2: Oh my gosh. Oh my gosh. Okay.
• 51:34
  Speaker 1: Anyways, that one sucked.
• 51:36
  Speaker 2: That one sucked.
• 51:38
  Speaker 1: Thanks for being here. I'm going to just end it there.
• 51:41
  Speaker 1: Until next time.
• 51:42
  Speaker 2: Stay wicked.
• 52:14
  Speaker 1: Thank you. Thank you.