Latest / Houselights: A Film Director Podcast / Arsenic and Old Lace (1944) - Frank Capra | Houselights #294

Transcript

Arsenic and Old Lace (1944) - Frank Capra | Houselights #294 · Houselights: A Film Director Podcast

• 0:03
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the Nerd Party.
• 0:20
  Speaker 2: Welcome back to House Lights, the program on the Nerd
• 0:23
  Speaker 2: Party Network that looks at the work of directors by segment,
• 0:26
  Speaker 2: by career, by decade, by however we want to look
• 0:30
  Speaker 2: at them. And in this specific house, this is the
• 0:33
  Speaker 2: house of Capra, Frank Capra. It's a small house for
• 0:36
  Speaker 2: us this time. And we're at our third film, our
• 0:39
  Speaker 2: final that we're looking at in this series, 1944's Arsenic
• 0:44
  Speaker 2: and Old Lace, starring Cary Grant. an all-time classic adaptation
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: of an old stage play that is still put on
• 0:51
  Speaker 2: revival today as we speak. So this classic of cinema
• 0:55
  Speaker 2: is crafted from a classic of American comedy theater. And
• 0:59
  Speaker 2: I am John Mills, the proud critic who is visiting
• 1:03
  Speaker 2: his two relatives, my crazy Uncle Darren, who's convinced that
• 1:08
  Speaker 2: he's building a Death Star in the basement, and, of course,
• 1:11
  Speaker 2: the very virtuous Reverend Tristan. who doesn't quite know what
• 1:15
  Speaker 2: his future son-in-law, the type of stock he comes from.
• 1:18
  Speaker 3: So here we go, guys.
• 1:20
  Speaker 2: We're looking at Arsenic and Old Lace and we are
• 1:23
  Speaker 2: faced with a very, very classic conundrum of how to
• 1:27
  Speaker 2: approach old comedy because you always go into an older
• 1:31
  Speaker 2: film with comedy and you sort of go in with
• 1:33
  Speaker 2: an expectation of saying, okay, did this all age the
• 1:37
  Speaker 2: way that we would want it to age? And I
• 1:39
  Speaker 2: know that all three of us have seen this before.
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: And I think that we're actually going to be very
• 1:43
  Speaker 2: happy with our answers here. So Tristan, I'll kick it
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: off to you. Arsenic and old lace, anything objectionable about
• 1:50
  Speaker 2: arsenic and old lace that you see?
• 1:51
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Okay. Well, okay. So like at the very beginning,
• 1:57
  Speaker 3: you know, like when they're in the, in the courthouse
• 1:59
  Speaker 3: trying to get a marriage license, um, we see the
• 2:02
  Speaker 3: only Asian person in the film and then stereotypical Asian
• 2:06
  Speaker 3: music is playing. That is true. That rings some 2026
• 2:13
  Speaker 3: alarm bells. And then the very first shot of the
• 2:18
  Speaker 3: aunt's house, they have a caricature of a black person
• 2:23
  Speaker 3: as like a jockey. Jockey, thank you. A caricature of
• 2:28
  Speaker 3: a black person jockey on their lawn. And it's just
• 2:31
  Speaker 3: like one right after the other. And I just started
• 2:34
  Speaker 3: laughing to my wife, like, here we go. But then
• 2:38
  Speaker 3: thankfully after that, it was done.
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: Those two things are definitely products of their time. Darren,
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: do we at least want to give the film a
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: little bit of credit for being released in America in
• 2:50
  Speaker 2: 1944 and at least there wasn't some sort of pro-war
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: rallying cry when we saw the Asian character. Are we
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: going to give them any grace in terms of that?
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: I mean, a little grace.
• 3:00
  Speaker 4: It's definitely not even on my radar watching this movie.
• 3:05
  Speaker 4: Every shot that's outside of that house is just extra
• 3:09
  Speaker 4: because I don't know if you guys noticed, this was
• 3:12
  Speaker 4: a play. This was a play within a play inside
• 3:16
  Speaker 4: this house. It is so staged like a play and
• 3:19
  Speaker 4: that's not bad. It's just so blatantly obvious that So no,
• 3:24
  Speaker 4: every time we're outside of the house, I'm just like,
• 3:27
  Speaker 4: when are we going back in? Because that's where all
• 3:29
  Speaker 4: the interesting stuff is going to happen.
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: That's how I took it.
• 3:32
  Speaker 3: It is based on a play.
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: And I can proudly say that decades ago in a
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: community theater production, I actually played Mortimer. So I have
• 3:40
  Speaker 2: a very, very deep fondness for this play. But yeah,
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: we only had a set. for this play. And it
• 3:47
  Speaker 2: was the interior of the house and the stairs that
• 3:50
  Speaker 2: went nowhere. And then the basement that didn't exist, a
• 3:53
  Speaker 2: door to it and everything like that. And so for me,
• 3:57
  Speaker 2: I never watched this movie before I was in the
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: play because I was one of those people that was like,
• 4:02
  Speaker 2: I don't want my performance to be informed by anybody else. No,
• 4:06
  Speaker 2: I was actually doing it for like, not because I
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: was like being a pretentious jerk, but but because I
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: was like, I didn't want to accidentally mimic anybody.
• 4:14
  Speaker 3: I wanted to get there on my own. That's a
• 4:15
  Speaker 3: great reason. That's a great reason not to.
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: But given that it's from a play and given that
• 4:21
  Speaker 2: we have this opportunity to move outside of the environment
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: and also pad it with some extra material, Tristan, how
• 4:27
  Speaker 2: do you judge the choices that Capra made in terms
• 4:30
  Speaker 2: of where he took the camera from?
• 4:32
  Speaker 3: When it wasn't inside the house. Oh, it was terrible.
• 4:35
  Speaker 3: It was absolutely terrible. Uh, the, the intro was so
• 4:40
  Speaker 3: odd and unnecessary, even by standards of the time, because why,
• 4:47
  Speaker 3: why in blue, perfect hell are we at a baseball
• 4:50
  Speaker 3: game that turns into a fight and then it just,
• 4:54
  Speaker 3: it just keeps going. And then like we have those
• 4:56
  Speaker 3: completely unnecessary, uh, titles on the screen that add absolutely
• 5:02
  Speaker 3: nothing to the movie. It was so completely strange and needless.
• 5:07
  Speaker 3: And it was, the movie didn't really start until the
• 5:10
  Speaker 3: two cops were walking down the street.
• 5:12
  Speaker 4: Yes.
• 5:12
  Speaker 3: And I even turned to my wife and I said,
• 5:14
  Speaker 3: it was like, why didn't we start here? Why didn't
• 5:16
  Speaker 3: the movie start here? And I'm assuming that's where the
• 5:19
  Speaker 3: play started.
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Frank Capra. Why?
• 5:21
  Speaker 2: No, but I mean, Darren, do you want to venture
• 5:24
  Speaker 2: a guess as to why? Like did the prologue add anything?
• 5:27
  Speaker 2: I mean, I, To Tristan's point, I'm like, I guess
• 5:30
  Speaker 2: people were just taking a long time to get to
• 5:32
  Speaker 2: their seats back then, and they wanted a couple of
• 5:34
  Speaker 2: jokes at the expense of New York. But they were
• 5:37
  Speaker 2: getting their popcorn and smoking their last cigarette, and maybe
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: that's why this intro happens.
• 5:41
  Speaker 3: I mean, does it add anything for you, Darren? Do
• 5:43
  Speaker 3: you think it's served a purpose?
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: The only thing I will say positive about it is now.
• 5:50
  Speaker 4: Having that record, as it were, is kind of a
• 5:53
  Speaker 4: time capsule of this more kind of everyday life shots
• 5:57
  Speaker 4: from the 40s.
• 5:58
  Speaker 3: And that is kind of nice.
• 6:00
  Speaker 4: But in the context of when it was present day, no,
• 6:03
  Speaker 4: it doesn't add anything to the story. Maybe they're trying
• 6:08
  Speaker 4: to pad runtime. I don't even know.
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: Well, there are two things on that. One, Tristan, do
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: you think that Darren is maybe onto something wherein... giving
• 6:18
  Speaker 2: that sense of normalcy about life, this is being released
• 6:22
  Speaker 2: as the nation's been at war for many years. Do
• 6:24
  Speaker 2: you think it maybe served that purpose to remind people
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: of the normal life that they wanted to have and
• 6:29
  Speaker 2: they were trying to have without thinking about the war
• 6:32
  Speaker 2: and stuff like that? No.
• 6:35
  Speaker 3: No? Okay, that's fair. Just a straight no. I honestly
• 6:39
  Speaker 3: can't wrap my head around it. I mean, if there
• 6:42
  Speaker 3: was something idyllic about it, if there was something about, like,
• 6:47
  Speaker 3: you know, New York being the greatest city on earth or,
• 6:51
  Speaker 3: you know, something about where, you know, like across from
• 6:55
  Speaker 3: a thriving metropolis is Brooklyn, like just across the bridge.
• 7:01
  Speaker 3: You can get to a little hamlet in Brooklyn. You know,
• 7:04
  Speaker 3: if it was something that was like that, where it was, yeah,
• 7:07
  Speaker 3: the world is a mess right now. Everybody's freaking terrified
• 7:11
  Speaker 3: of fascism. Yeah, I would get it. But that's not
• 7:14
  Speaker 3: what we were getting at the beginning. We're not getting
• 7:16
  Speaker 3: that idealist, We're not getting that escapism from the war.
• 7:20
  Speaker 3: And they're showing strife without showing the strife of the war,
• 7:25
  Speaker 3: which feels meaningless. So I honestly, I cannot tell you.
• 7:30
  Speaker 3: I can't even venture a guess. Well, we'll stay with you.
• 7:33
  Speaker 2: I am firmly in the camp of comedy should keep
• 7:37
  Speaker 2: it fast, as fast as possible. I'll turn to the
• 7:42
  Speaker 2: absolute gem of comedy that Darren and I love.
• 7:44
  Speaker 3: Planes, Trains, and Automobiles. That movie is in and out.
• 7:48
  Speaker 3: Hour and a half. Done.
• 7:49
  Speaker 2: We're not going to linger on anything for too long.
• 7:51
  Speaker 2: This has a substantially longer runtime. Are you in the
• 7:55
  Speaker 2: camp of give me more? They just chose to give
• 7:59
  Speaker 2: the wrong type of more? Or do you agree with
• 8:03
  Speaker 2: me where it's like this movie had no business being
• 8:05
  Speaker 2: longer than 87 minutes?
• 8:06
  Speaker 3: It should have been in and out. Done. Because it's comedy.
• 8:09
  Speaker 3: It should be fast. I don't think it was an
• 8:10
  Speaker 3: issue of length. I really don't. I don't think like, oh,
• 8:14
  Speaker 3: we need to cut that beginning because it's too long.
• 8:18
  Speaker 3: We just need to cut that beginning because it's pointless.
• 8:21
  Speaker 3: There's just no reason. I don't have any deeper meaning
• 8:24
  Speaker 3: behind it. It's just like, it was so meaningless. Because
• 8:28
  Speaker 3: it becomes redundant. Once we get to the ants talking
• 8:31
  Speaker 3: to the preacher, they give all that exposition at the beginning.
• 8:36
  Speaker 3: And so it completely wipes away the need to introduce
• 8:40
  Speaker 3: the characters getting the marriage license because we find out
• 8:43
  Speaker 3: who Cary Grant is, why he shouldn't be getting married
• 8:48
  Speaker 3: in the public eye, why he's trying to hide and
• 8:50
  Speaker 3: everything like that. But like I said, it becomes redundant
• 8:54
  Speaker 3: once we get to that one aunt talking to the
• 8:58
  Speaker 3: preacher about it. And then so our introduction should have
• 9:02
  Speaker 3: been them crazy in love, hopping around the tree and
• 9:05
  Speaker 3: everything like that. Because what we get instead at the
• 9:08
  Speaker 3: beginning is we get this really weird interaction where he's like,
• 9:13
  Speaker 3: I'm not going to marry you. And he's mean to her.
• 9:16
  Speaker 3: It's weird. It's off-putting. And of course, it's just an
• 9:18
  Speaker 3: excuse to give the soft focus lens and the doe
• 9:23
  Speaker 3: eyes from the female lead and everything like that. And
• 9:27
  Speaker 3: she's crazy gorgeous. And of course, he wants to marry her.
• 9:30
  Speaker 3: But yeah, I don't really have any more to say
• 9:33
  Speaker 3: about it other than it's redundant. It's not needed. it
• 9:37
  Speaker 3: makes your lead feel like a jerk and.
• 9:40
  Speaker 2: Racism, you know, all these things, you know, do you,
• 9:43
  Speaker 2: do you, I mean, Darren, do you, do you agree
• 9:44
  Speaker 2: that it's, do you feel that Mortimer comes off as
• 9:47
  Speaker 2: unsympathetic because of that beginning? Is it harder for you
• 9:51
  Speaker 2: to find reason to cheer for Mortimer later because that
• 9:56
  Speaker 2: open sets you off on the wrong foot?
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: To it, maybe a little bit. It's interesting.
• 10:00
  Speaker 4: It almost makes me think of It Happened One Night,
• 10:03
  Speaker 4: like a very similar start where someone who's highly recognizable
• 10:07
  Speaker 4: in the public eye is trying to disappear. But then
• 10:10
  Speaker 4: that story doesn't go anywhere. The news people aren't trying
• 10:14
  Speaker 4: to bust down the house door anymore. Like there's there's
• 10:17
  Speaker 4: none of that after that opening scene.
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: But not that.
• 10:21
  Speaker 4: You shouldn't maybe have a little bit of establishing who
• 10:24
  Speaker 4: this couple is and who Mortimer is. But that wasn't it.
• 10:28
  Speaker 4: So I think, well, to keep the podcast from being
• 10:32
  Speaker 4: all about the intro 10 minutes.
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 10:36
  Speaker 2: But I mean, the thing is, you know, once we
• 10:37
  Speaker 2: get past that intro, it does get much more like
• 10:41
  Speaker 2: the actual stage play. Once we're inside the house, it
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: starts operating much more like a true adaptation of the play.
• 10:48
  Speaker 2: And we do wind up pinned inside that living room mainly.
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: And so my question would be that with the camera
• 10:56
  Speaker 2: work and with the cutting and with the performances, Tristan,
• 10:59
  Speaker 2: do you ever feel claustrophobic in that living space? Do
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: you want to escape it? Or do you think that
• 11:05
  Speaker 2: Capra does a good enough job moving things around within
• 11:08
  Speaker 2: the limited space to make it feel functional and fun?
• 11:12
  Speaker 3: And never cramped and uncomfortable. I never really felt cramped
• 11:17
  Speaker 3: and uncomfortable because it's such a big old house. It's
• 11:21
  Speaker 3: one of the reasons why it's like the friend's apartment.
• 11:24
  Speaker 3: You know, like they jump through hoops to try to
• 11:26
  Speaker 3: figure out ways for them to afford that kind of apartment.
• 11:29
  Speaker 3: But the real reason is so that they can have
• 11:31
  Speaker 3: the space to make camera angles interesting. And it's the
• 11:34
  Speaker 3: same reason why all these old plays and all these
• 11:37
  Speaker 3: old movies take place in old mansions. And gigantic farmhouses
• 11:41
  Speaker 3: because you need places to put the camera. Like if
• 11:43
  Speaker 3: you had a one bedroom apartment, it's going to freaking suck.
• 11:46
  Speaker 3: It's going to be it limits your options. I shouldn't
• 11:48
  Speaker 3: say it's going to suck because there are plays that
• 11:50
  Speaker 3: do it really well. But with this movie, no, I
• 11:53
  Speaker 3: never really felt claustrophobic or anything like that. I'm a
• 11:57
  Speaker 3: big fan of movies that are based on plays because
• 12:00
  Speaker 3: I feel like it's especially today. Because it kind of
• 12:03
  Speaker 3: harkens back to this age where even though even if
• 12:06
  Speaker 3: this movie wasn't based on a play, if it was
• 12:08
  Speaker 3: just an original movie, it's there's so many times like
• 12:13
  Speaker 3: if you looked at it, it happened one night and
• 12:15
  Speaker 3: took away the road aspect of it. There's so many
• 12:19
  Speaker 3: long scenes in that where they're just they know their lines.
• 12:23
  Speaker 3: They're going through the entire scene together. And that's very
• 12:26
  Speaker 3: old Hollywood. And that's really cool. And that's a lot
• 12:28
  Speaker 3: of fun. And you don't really get that anymore. And
• 12:31
  Speaker 3: so seeing movies like this make me think of old Hollywood,
• 12:35
  Speaker 3: not just because it is old Hollywood, but because it
• 12:38
  Speaker 3: feels more like a play than not. And Frank Capra's
• 12:43
  Speaker 3: editing is almost always terrible. And it's one of those
• 12:48
  Speaker 3: things where it's very much a product of its time.
• 12:51
  Speaker 3: But Capra himself was very terrible. I do not think
• 12:55
  Speaker 3: he cared about editing at all. I think it was
• 12:59
  Speaker 3: more of an issue, not so much like having a
• 13:01
  Speaker 3: terrible editor, but not giving that editor coverage. Like, I
• 13:07
  Speaker 3: have this headcanon image where, you know, Capra is sitting
• 13:13
  Speaker 3: with the editor and the editor says, like, you want
• 13:16
  Speaker 3: me to do what? You want me to bridge these
• 13:18
  Speaker 3: two cuts together? That doesn't make sense. Like, why didn't
• 13:21
  Speaker 3: you shoot X, Y, and Z? I didn't have time.
• 13:23
  Speaker 3: Just listen to me. I'm Frank Capra. God dang it.
• 13:26
  Speaker 3: and you know and then that's how we get it's
• 13:28
  Speaker 3: a wonderful life which was one of the worst edited
• 13:30
  Speaker 3: films of all time but nobody cares about it being
• 13:33
  Speaker 3: the one of the worst edited films of all time
• 13:35
  Speaker 3: because they love the movie so it just it kind
• 13:38
  Speaker 3: of goes like capra makes such heartwarming and fun and
• 13:42
  Speaker 3: interesting performances and movies that you can tell that editing
• 13:46
  Speaker 3: was just secondary to him.
• 13:47
  Speaker 2: Moving on from uh tristan's uh cold cold heart where
• 13:50
  Speaker 2: he throws uh It's a Wonderful Life, which came out
• 13:53
  Speaker 2: between the two movies we've talked about here, Mr. Smith
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: Goes to Washington and Arsenic and Old Lace.
• 13:58
  Speaker 3: And since we're talking about It's a Wonderful Life, I
• 14:00
  Speaker 3: have some opinions.
• 14:02
  Speaker 2: And we'll get to that at some other point when
• 14:05
  Speaker 2: Darren and I are not available. Darren, given those terrible
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: feelings that Tristan has about the editing, there is, of course,
• 14:13
  Speaker 2: the cinematography issue.
• 14:16
  Speaker 3: Saul Polito, who's.
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: Worked with a lot of legendary directors of the time
• 14:20
  Speaker 2: and everything like that, he's behind the camera. He's the
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: cinematographer here. Is there anything about the camera work that
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: is impressive to you?
• 14:30
  Speaker 3: Is there anything? Do you feel that any of the
• 14:32
  Speaker 3: use of lighting.
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: Is particularly effective, like when Laurie shows up or when
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: Boris Karloff is there? Or do you think that this
• 14:41
  Speaker 2: is a movie where it just looks like anybody could
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: have shot this?
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: No. This.
• 14:45
  Speaker 4: movie has some amazing lighting in it from you know
• 14:51
  Speaker 4: foreground background silhouette work you know there's and it's not
• 14:56
  Speaker 4: a hundred percent it's not like every single shot is
• 14:58
  Speaker 4: this crafted gem there's a lot of wide shots were
• 15:02
  Speaker 4: in the room the lights are all on and it's
• 15:04
  Speaker 4: very flat but then when it wants to give you
• 15:08
  Speaker 4: a moment of someone approaching or entering or sneaking or
• 15:12
  Speaker 4: stumbling you've That's enhanced not just by the music, but
• 15:18
  Speaker 4: also by the cinematography, which is great because I think
• 15:22
  Speaker 4: that is one of those benefits of it is a play,
• 15:25
  Speaker 4: but we could do that.
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: In a movie.
• 15:27
  Speaker 4: We can construct the exact frame our audience is going
• 15:32
  Speaker 4: to see so that the silhouette works, which you can't
• 15:35
  Speaker 4: really do in a movie as much because the audience
• 15:38
  Speaker 4: could look anywhere and you have to kind of guide
• 15:39
  Speaker 4: their eye in a different way.
• 15:41
  Speaker 3: So no, I enjoyed the cinematography.
• 15:44
  Speaker 4: Even it's always interesting reviewing the cinematography for a black
• 15:49
  Speaker 4: and white movie because it makes you appreciate it in
• 15:54
  Speaker 4: a very different way than a color film.
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: In a color film, it's like this.
• 15:57
  Speaker 4: Whole other layer of color, of how it looks in
• 16:02
  Speaker 4: the visual, whereas this, I'd say it's almost harder to
• 16:06
  Speaker 4: have good cinematography in a black and white film because.
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: It is so either apparent or not apparent that it's working.
• 16:12
  Speaker 4: It has to... Because you can't just splash some, oh
• 16:16
  Speaker 4: my gosh, it was so red and amazing. It's like, nope,
• 16:19
  Speaker 4: it's white and black. And then no red all over.
• 16:24
  Speaker 4: But I did enjoy that aspect of this. It did
• 16:27
  Speaker 4: not feel flat. It drew my eye when it needed to.
• 16:31
  Speaker 2: Tristan, how did you feel about the way it was shot?
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: Do you agree with Darren that it worked? Or were
• 16:38
  Speaker 2: there opportunities you think that were missed?
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: No, that was fine.
• 16:42
  Speaker 3: I don't really have any strong feelings either way. I
• 16:46
  Speaker 3: think what they did worked. I think it was good.
• 16:50
  Speaker 3: I think that it showed the space. You knew exactly
• 16:53
  Speaker 3: where you were. I mean, there wasn't really any way
• 16:56
  Speaker 3: to get lost in that place. Because you're mainly dealing
• 17:02
  Speaker 3: with the living room. I thought it was interesting that
• 17:04
  Speaker 3: we didn't go downstairs. I'm kind of torn on it where...
• 17:09
  Speaker 3: Part of me wanted to see downstairs, but at the
• 17:12
  Speaker 3: same time, I think that's the difference between a movie
• 17:16
  Speaker 3: and a play. Like if it's the play, you know
• 17:18
  Speaker 3: why you're not going downstairs because it's a play. But
• 17:21
  Speaker 3: with a movie, I feel like we should have gotten
• 17:25
  Speaker 3: just a little peek, just a little sneak peek.
• 17:29
  Speaker 2: I think that the little peak that they gave us
• 17:32
  Speaker 2: of being on the stairs, look, look, he's down there.
• 17:36
  Speaker 3: That's enough, I think.
• 17:38
  Speaker 2: I think that I understand what you're saying, but I
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: think it borders on the lurid at that point. Because
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: if you see actual graves and an actual corpse downstairs,
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: suddenly the comedy is gone for me.
• 17:52
  Speaker 3: Where I'm suddenly like, oh, right, these are... They straight
• 17:55
  Speaker 3: up murdered people. They are murderers. Oh, this isn't cute. Actually,
• 18:00
  Speaker 3: that makes me think of, okay, so the first time
• 18:03
  Speaker 3: I saw this movie was when my wife and I
• 18:06
  Speaker 3: were dating. And we were at my parents' house spending
• 18:09
  Speaker 3: the weekend. And I can't remember how we had access
• 18:13
  Speaker 3: to it. I think it was on some service or
• 18:14
  Speaker 3: it was on TV. Maybe it was on TCM or
• 18:16
  Speaker 3: something like that. And my wife was like, oh, this
• 18:20
  Speaker 3: is one of my favorite movies. We should watch this.
• 18:22
  Speaker 3: And so all four of us were like, okay, let's
• 18:24
  Speaker 3: do it. Let's watch it. And the movie was over,
• 18:27
  Speaker 3: and me and my parents just crapped all over it.
• 18:32
  Speaker 3: Pretty on brand. Just eviscerated it.
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: I can't believe you did that, Tristan. I totally cannot
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: see that happening.
• 18:38
  Speaker 3: This is shocking to me.
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: I do not see how that could have happened. How
• 18:41
  Speaker 2: in the world could you do that?
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: And she still married you?
• 18:44
  Speaker 3: Oh, my goodness. How strange. But it wasn't just me. Like,
• 18:49
  Speaker 3: it was my parents, too.
• 18:50
  Speaker 4: No, no.
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: Don't try to push it off on your parents. We
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: know where it came from.
• 18:55
  Speaker 2: I would also say that we are a product of
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: our parents. So, again, this tracks.
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: It was not a Riddell family favorite.
• 19:02
  Speaker 3: It was not. From the record. It was not a
• 19:04
  Speaker 3: Riddell family favorite. And at the time. um my wife
• 19:09
  Speaker 3: was kind of like well you know you know she
• 19:11
  Speaker 3: was kind of sheepish she's like i like it i
• 19:13
  Speaker 3: really like it and you know it's just so innocent
• 19:15
  Speaker 3: to me and i'm like innocent what are you talking
• 19:18
  Speaker 3: about innocent and i think that if they show the
• 19:22
  Speaker 3: basement like i talked about like i think john i
• 19:25
  Speaker 3: think you're right i think you're 100 right about that
• 19:27
  Speaker 3: where like it takes away that innocence where i get
• 19:30
  Speaker 3: what she's saying i get what she's i don't agree
• 19:32
  Speaker 3: with her but i get what she's saying And then,
• 19:36
  Speaker 3: so years later, we're married. She actually says yes. And
• 19:42
  Speaker 3: I tell her, I was just like, hey, I think
• 19:44
  Speaker 3: I want to give Arsenic an old lace another shot.
• 19:47
  Speaker 3: I'm kind of in the mood to watch it. And
• 19:48
  Speaker 3: she goes, you hate that? movie. And it wasn't even
• 19:51
  Speaker 3: like a, what? No, I thought you didn't like that movie.
• 19:53
  Speaker 3: It was, no, it was deadpanned. You hate that movie.
• 19:57
  Speaker 3: There was so much feeling behind the eyes.
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I wonder why. I can't even imagine.
• 20:04
  Speaker 3: And so we didn't watch it, and she was harboring
• 20:08
  Speaker 3: this resentment for like 20 years.
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: It tracks.
• 20:13
  Speaker 3: And then I finally say like, hey, we're doing House of.
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: We're not on your side, Tristan.
• 20:16
  Speaker 3: We are totally on your wife's side right now. Hopefully
• 20:20
  Speaker 3: some of the listeners are, but I tell her we're
• 20:22
  Speaker 3: doing House of Capra. And we're going to do Arsenic
• 20:24
  Speaker 3: and Old Lakes. And she goes, you hate that movie.
• 20:27
  Speaker 3: She said like the same exact way that she did
• 20:30
  Speaker 3: like 10 years prior.
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: I'm totally in your wife's fan club right now. Like,
• 20:34
  Speaker 2: I feel like I've been in her shoes. I'm sure
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: you do, too. She has to live in the same
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: house as you, Tristan. Watch the movies on the same TV.
• 20:43
  Speaker 3: Absolutely. Absolutely. Darren and I can relate to your. But yeah,
• 20:48
  Speaker 3: that's my history with this movie. It is a point
• 20:52
  Speaker 3: of contention in my relationship.
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: With my beloved. I'm really interested to see.
• 20:57
  Speaker 3: What your score is later.
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: That's going to be interesting.
• 21:00
  Speaker 3: I'll go ahead.
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: I'll share an anecdote from when I was in the
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: play so long ago. The guy they got to play
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: the Karloff role, he was just a naturally... I love
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: that you're just calling him Karloff. You're not even trying
• 21:12
  Speaker 2: to call him.
• 21:13
  Speaker 3: Jonathan. I think it's your name, isn't it? His name's
• 21:15
  Speaker 3: just John. My name is not Jonathan. I said John.
• 21:19
  Speaker 3: I said John. But his name is Jonathan. Anyway. Either way.
• 21:23
  Speaker 3: Beside the point.
• 21:24
  Speaker 2: The guy was tall, lanky, a little odd to begin with,
• 21:28
  Speaker 2: and he decided to have fun. My cousin brought her son,
• 21:33
  Speaker 2: who's like the kid that convinced me that I wanted
• 21:35
  Speaker 2: to become a dad, right?
• 21:37
  Speaker 3: Brings him along, and he was terrified.
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: Like the scene where I got tied up, they had
• 21:43
  Speaker 2: to take my little, you know, he called me uncle,
• 21:47
  Speaker 2: even though I wasn't like actually an uncle, you know,
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: but they had to take him out of the auditorium
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: because he started wailing because he thought I was in
• 21:55
  Speaker 2: danger because the way this guy played it wasn't for comedy.
• 21:58
  Speaker 3: He was playing it for like horror and the director
• 22:02
  Speaker 3: was fine with that. So, okay.
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: So I like, I would ham it up and try
• 22:04
  Speaker 2: to like, you know, go really, really over the top
• 22:06
  Speaker 2: with like the comedy part of it really freaked out
• 22:10
  Speaker 2: the kid. And I was like, hey, hey, I'm going
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: to take you backstage so you can meet him. And
• 22:14
  Speaker 2: I prepared, this guy's name was Sean. I said, hey, Sean,
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: you know, like, be cool. I'm bringing this little kid
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: with me. You know, just let him know that you're
• 22:21
  Speaker 2: an okay guy. And I brought the little kid up
• 22:24
  Speaker 2: and he was menacing to the kid. And he's like, hello,
• 22:27
  Speaker 2: it's nice to see. And the kid starts crying again.
• 22:28
  Speaker 2: I almost socked him so bad. And just watching this
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: movie and watching the Karloff, I was like, I still
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: got mad at him for it. But speaking of that, Tristan,
• 22:39
  Speaker 2: did you get the sense that Karloff was having a
• 22:41
  Speaker 2: lot of fun with this, leaning into the role? Or
• 22:45
  Speaker 2: do you feel that Karloff was just sort of like
• 22:48
  Speaker 2: along for the ride and just doing it because who
• 22:50
  Speaker 2: else are you going to get to play it?
• 22:52
  Speaker 3: Half and half. You know, I'm not trying to be evasive,
• 22:56
  Speaker 3: but I think there are genuine moments when he was
• 22:59
  Speaker 3: having fun. I think all of them were having fun.
• 23:01
  Speaker 3: It's hard not to have fun with a movie like this.
• 23:03
  Speaker 3: But I don't think Jonathan was a standout. I think
• 23:07
  Speaker 3: it was... It was a makeup presence more than a
• 23:11
  Speaker 3: fun character. I think Laurie was probably a much more
• 23:16
  Speaker 3: fun character to deal with. Cary Grant as Mortimer was
• 23:19
  Speaker 3: a much more fun character. The aunts were a fun character.
• 23:21
  Speaker 3: The fiancé, now wife I guess I should say, goes
• 23:27
  Speaker 3: a little bit to the wayside. But one thing I
• 23:29
  Speaker 3: do want to talk about with Jonathan, when he talks about,
• 23:31
  Speaker 3: he's like, you remember Mortimer? when I tied you to
• 23:35
  Speaker 3: the bedpost and put needles under your fingernails. That's insane. Like,
• 23:41
  Speaker 3: I know these people are insane, but that's not like,
• 23:45
  Speaker 3: normally you'd say like, oh, I gave you an Indian burn.
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: It's like, no, no.
• 23:48
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I gave you a noogie or I locked you
• 23:50
  Speaker 3: in the closet or something like that. Like, no, no, no.
• 23:52
  Speaker 3: I remember when I did Chinese torture and pulled out
• 23:54
  Speaker 3: your fingernails, you know, like Clarice, you know, it was
• 23:56
  Speaker 3: just like crap like that. You're like, good Lord, that's
• 23:59
  Speaker 3: a step too far.
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, well, The thing is, though, like, Jonathan
• 24:06
  Speaker 2: is supposed to bring a sense of menace, but maybe
• 24:08
  Speaker 2: you're getting at something like, Darren, does he bring too
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: much menace? Is he, like, you know, is that too
• 24:15
  Speaker 2: far for the character? Is that a part that does
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: not age particularly well, or does it serve the character
• 24:21
  Speaker 2: of Mortimer to sort of underlie why he is the
• 24:25
  Speaker 2: way he is?
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: It's interesting because, obviously, he's a villain, but I see.
• 24:31
  Speaker 4: Mortimer and, and Dr. Einstein, you know, Peter Lohr, they're
• 24:35
  Speaker 4: more like seasoning into the plot. Like, you know, like
• 24:39
  Speaker 4: a salt shaker here and a salt shaker here. The
• 24:42
  Speaker 4: real antagonist is the secret. Like that is what everybody's
• 24:48
  Speaker 4: running around. The, the, the body's in the basement and
• 24:51
  Speaker 4: that's what drives all the conflict. Like, yes, he, him
• 24:54
  Speaker 4: being there is bad, but him being there and there's.
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: This secret is the whole plot. So it's, it's so interesting.
• 25:03
  Speaker 3: Cause it's, Yeah.
• 25:04
  Speaker 4: Again, I don't think he is not the the greatest
• 25:08
  Speaker 4: driving force in this movie. And I don't think he
• 25:10
  Speaker 4: should be. It's how he is weaving around and causing
• 25:15
  Speaker 4: problems on top of the fact that we're trying to
• 25:18
  Speaker 4: get Teddy into Happy Dale. We're trying to get, you know,
• 25:22
  Speaker 4: the cops out of here.
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: And we're trying, you know, all.
• 25:24
  Speaker 4: These things that are stacked up against Mortimer. it's man
• 25:30
  Speaker 4: versus secret, which is really fun. I mean, that's what
• 25:33
  Speaker 4: leads to all the comedy as they trip over each other.
• 25:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I definitely, I give that to you.
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: You're absolutely right. I think in my perfect world, the
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: type of energy I'm looking for from the Jonathan character,
• 25:44
  Speaker 2: now obviously this is decades before this specific star has
• 25:49
  Speaker 2: his career, but I'm looking for more of a Peter
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: Sellers energy. There's a villainy, like, Sellers can play a villain.
• 25:57
  Speaker 2: He can play Dr. Strangelove, who is a horrific person
• 26:01
  Speaker 2: when you really break it down, but do it in
• 26:03
  Speaker 2: such a way that you're like, tee-hee. I think that
• 26:08
  Speaker 2: somebody with that type of energy can give the line of,
• 26:11
  Speaker 2: remember when we were kids and I put the needles
• 26:13
  Speaker 2: on you?
• 26:14
  Speaker 3: It could be a little more playful. You almost don't
• 26:15
  Speaker 3: believe him.
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: You're like, this doesn't make sense.
• 26:18
  Speaker 2: It sounds like, oh, I put needles, I jabbed you,
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: whereas the way Karloff delivers it, it sounds like he
• 26:23
  Speaker 2: literally went down to the root of the... And it's like,
• 26:27
  Speaker 2: how is Mortimer functional enough to get married to anybody?
• 26:31
  Speaker 3: Yeah, like how is Mortimer normal? How is the cops
• 26:33
  Speaker 3: not called? Yeah, yeah. How is he not thrown in
• 26:35
  Speaker 3: a paddy wagon?
• 26:36
  Speaker 2: And so that's sort of what I'm going for is like,
• 26:38
  Speaker 2: I think Peter Lorre, he's playing it perfectly. perfect type
• 26:44
  Speaker 2: of menace where it's like he's cartoon menace. Whereas I
• 26:47
  Speaker 2: think Karloff is too much real menace.
• 26:49
  Speaker 3: And I think that, that drags. You keep calling him Karloff.
• 26:52
  Speaker 3: Cause he is. Okay.
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: Raymond Massey is the name of the actor.
• 26:56
  Speaker 3: Whatever.
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: Jonathan Brewster.
• 26:58
  Speaker 2: We get it. I, yes, I know, but that's just,
• 27:02
  Speaker 2: it's always going to be stuck in my brain that way.
• 27:04
  Speaker 3: I can't help it.
• 27:05
  Speaker 4: No, Laura, Laura is so good in this. And you're
• 27:08
  Speaker 4: absolutely right. Is it Laura or Laurie?
• 27:10
  Speaker 3: Laurie. Oh, sorry, Laurie. Okay, okay. I thought I was wrong.
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: Sorry, Darren. No, no.
• 27:15
  Speaker 4: But he's... I mean, he's one of those character actors. Like,
• 27:18
  Speaker 4: you see Peter Laurie. Like, he does not disappear into
• 27:22
  Speaker 4: the role.
• 27:22
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 27:23
  Speaker 3: He, like, never does.
• 27:25
  Speaker 4: He is who he is, but he adapts to the
• 27:29
  Speaker 4: moment in a really cool way. So, yeah, I think
• 27:33
  Speaker 4: just the fact that he's just stuck in the middle.
• 27:35
  Speaker 4: He's so in the middle of everything. Just like, you know,
• 27:39
  Speaker 4: Mortimer is... But I think my favorite part is towards
• 27:43
  Speaker 4: the very end when the, the police officer is talking
• 27:46
  Speaker 4: on the phone, not talking about him per se, but
• 27:50
  Speaker 4: he thinks he is.
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: And he's just like, well, I'm done.
• 27:54
  Speaker 3: It's, it's all over.
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: It's just, he's like slumping down into, into himself.
• 28:00
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Great.
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: That was perfect casting for that role.
• 28:04
  Speaker 4: Like I think the best casting of the entire, not that, oh,
• 28:08
  Speaker 4: you know, Cary Grant couldn't have done this or it
• 28:10
  Speaker 4: should have been someone else.
• 28:11
  Speaker 3: But for that role of Dr.
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: Einstein, which is still a weird name to use in 44,
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: I guess, but, you know.
• 28:18
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that was strange in 44. I mean, that would
• 28:21
  Speaker 3: have been strange in 44.
• 28:22
  Speaker 2: You know, though, you know, just talking about these different aspects,
• 28:27
  Speaker 2: I mean, Cary Grant, the three films we've watched, Capra
• 28:30
  Speaker 2: has had as his leads, he's had Clark Gable, Jimmy Stewart,
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: And Cary Grant.
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: Boom, boom, boom.
• 28:37
  Speaker 3: Tristan, do you feel.
• 28:40
  Speaker 2: Any sort of special connection with Cary Grant that's different
• 28:45
  Speaker 2: than the way Capra works with Stewart and with Gable?
• 28:50
  Speaker 3: Do you feel it's all the same? No, I think Grant...
• 28:54
  Speaker 3: Cary Grant is Cary Grant. I mean, you cannot... I mean,
• 28:58
  Speaker 3: I freaking... It's one of the most narcissistic quotes, but
• 29:02
  Speaker 3: I love it because he's earned it. It's... he's like,
• 29:05
  Speaker 3: Cary Grant, like everybody loves Cary Grant. Everybody wants to
• 29:08
  Speaker 3: be Cary Grant. I want to be Cary Grant. And
• 29:10
  Speaker 3: he said it himself. Yeah. Yeah. It's phenomenal. It's such,
• 29:15
  Speaker 3: because I think people do not understand how gigantic of
• 29:19
  Speaker 3: a star he was. People have no idea how much
• 29:23
  Speaker 3: he represented old Hollywood. And I just, do I think
• 29:28
  Speaker 3: he was bad in this role? No, I don't. Do
• 29:31
  Speaker 3: I think somebody could have done it better? Yes, I do. Yes,
• 29:34
  Speaker 3: I do. I think, I think Clark Gable could like
• 29:38
  Speaker 3: talking about Stuart and Gable and everything like that. I
• 29:40
  Speaker 3: think Gable probably could have been a better choice. I think, um, I'm,
• 29:44
  Speaker 3: I'm kind of blanking on some other stars at the
• 29:46
  Speaker 3: time right now, but, um, hell even, um, Spencer Tracy. Oh,
• 29:51
  Speaker 3: like that would have been delightful. I agree.
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah.
• 29:54
  Speaker 3: I think, I think that, that kind of presence, like
• 29:58
  Speaker 3: that kind of, like, Cary Grant is flirting with comedy.
• 30:01
  Speaker 3: I think Grant does really great, subtle, fish-out-of-water comedy later
• 30:09
  Speaker 3: in his career. I feel like if we got Cary
• 30:11
  Speaker 3: Grant five years from now, we would have had a
• 30:14
  Speaker 3: very different performance in Arsenic and Old Lace. Now, who
• 30:17
  Speaker 3: the hell am I? This is a Criterion movie. People
• 30:20
  Speaker 3: love this movie. My wife clearly loves this movie.
• 30:23
  Speaker 4: And.
• 30:25
  Speaker 3: So I'm sure that a lot of people disagree with me,
• 30:28
  Speaker 3: but there were certain times when he was just too
• 30:31
  Speaker 3: over the top. It was Cary Grant trying to be funny,
• 30:34
  Speaker 3: not Cary Grant being funny.
• 30:36
  Speaker 2: Well, there was a specific decision as well on Capra's
• 30:40
  Speaker 2: part where the fourth wall was broken a few times. Darren,
• 30:42
  Speaker 2: did that work for you or did that take you
• 30:45
  Speaker 2: out of the film?
• 30:45
  Speaker 4: One last thing I wanted to say on Cary Grant
• 30:47
  Speaker 4: is to the context of this movie, which I didn't
• 30:50
  Speaker 4: even realize until I saw the stat, was that this
• 30:53
  Speaker 4: movie was filmed in 41. So this was even earlier
• 30:57
  Speaker 4: in his career, uh, for everybody, for Capra, for, for everybody.
• 31:01
  Speaker 4: So not just that 44 charm. Uh, but yeah, breaking
• 31:05
  Speaker 4: the fourth wall, it's a play like it, it's a comedy,
• 31:11
  Speaker 4: dark comedy. It did not take me out of it. It's,
• 31:14
  Speaker 4: it's done so much nowadays, uh, that it didn't feel
• 31:18
  Speaker 4: out of place.
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: At least to me.
• 31:20
  Speaker 4: Um, Cause I think, you know, the one that comes
• 31:23
  Speaker 4: to mind is like when he's all tied up and
• 31:26
  Speaker 4: he's getting like, like manically upset. And then maybe that's
• 31:31
  Speaker 4: not even meant to be a look at the camera,
• 31:33
  Speaker 4: but he's just like, and he just looks like straight
• 31:36
  Speaker 4: out at you.
• 31:37
  Speaker 3: But like, okay. So the, that moment really bothered me
• 31:39
  Speaker 3: because I feel like there were certain times when, when
• 31:42
  Speaker 3: you need to translate from a play to a movie.
• 31:45
  Speaker 3: And that was one of those times when he's tied
• 31:47
  Speaker 3: up and he's in the chair and the cop comes in.
• 31:50
  Speaker 3: I don't care how stupid of a cop you are. Like,
• 31:53
  Speaker 3: that didn't... Tied up and gagged. Tied up and gagged,
• 31:58
  Speaker 3: and he's screaming through the gag. And he's just like, oh,
• 32:02
  Speaker 3: this is a totally normal situation. I'll just tell you
• 32:05
  Speaker 3: my play right now. If you were seeing that on stage,
• 32:08
  Speaker 3: you would be around other people. You'd be feeling it.
• 32:11
  Speaker 3: You'd be like, okay. It's like when you see something
• 32:15
  Speaker 3: ridiculous on stage, your brain knows... It's fake. It's a
• 32:20
  Speaker 3: stage show. We're here to play make-believe. We all know
• 32:23
  Speaker 3: we're here playing make-believe. But in a movie kind of setting,
• 32:27
  Speaker 3: it breaks that. What's the term I'm looking for? Like
• 32:31
  Speaker 3: the suspension of disbelief. Like it breaks the suspension of disbelief.
• 32:34
  Speaker 2: It's too intimate in a film. You're too close to it.
• 32:37
  Speaker 2: Where you have natural distance with a stage play.
• 32:41
  Speaker 3: Perfect.
• 32:41
  Speaker 2: Additionally, though, if you tweak the dialogue, I think you
• 32:46
  Speaker 2: could have still made it work better for you if
• 32:49
  Speaker 2: you had had something where it's like, you.
• 32:51
  Speaker 3: Know, Raymond Massey as Jonathan and Peter Lorre.
• 32:53
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 32:59
  Speaker 2: You know, they start laughing like, oh, we're just playing
• 33:01
  Speaker 2: an old childhood game that we had one time, you know, like,
• 33:03
  Speaker 2: and they played up comedy around it to lean into
• 33:07
  Speaker 2: the idea that the cop is so dumb that he
• 33:09
  Speaker 2: buys the idea that they're just playing an old childhood
• 33:12
  Speaker 2: game because they haven't seen each other.
• 33:13
  Speaker 3: And I used to tie him up all the time.
• 33:15
  Speaker 3: And this is a fun thing.
• 33:16
  Speaker 2: And he has to get me to guess, you know,
• 33:18
  Speaker 2: how to untie the knot or so, you know, something
• 33:20
  Speaker 2: silly like that. Do you think that would have made
• 33:21
  Speaker 2: it work for you if they tweaked it that way?
• 33:23
  Speaker 4: I mean, I think It does come back to, like
• 33:26
  Speaker 4: you said, the intimacy where if you're watching a play,
• 33:29
  Speaker 4: you're 50 feet away and they're much smaller in your
• 33:33
  Speaker 4: visual frame. And so, yes, he's tied up, but you're
• 33:36
  Speaker 4: also seeing someone else running up and down the stairs
• 33:40
  Speaker 4: and the windows way over here and the characters are
• 33:42
  Speaker 4: spread out and doing other things. They're drawing your attention.
• 33:46
  Speaker 4: And so whereas this as a as a movie is
• 33:50
  Speaker 4: immediately controlling what you're looking at. And you assume, naturally,
• 33:55
  Speaker 4: as movies do, oh, I'm doing a slow pan of
• 33:59
  Speaker 4: him tied up in a chair from two feet away.
• 34:02
  Speaker 4: That must be what the cop is looking at in
• 34:05
  Speaker 4: that view. And that doesn't make sense that you would
• 34:08
  Speaker 4: have that reaction from that much scrutiny. So, yeah, it
• 34:13
  Speaker 4: needed to be more play-ish.
• 34:15
  Speaker 3: I guess.
• 34:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think they could have made it work better.
• 34:20
  Speaker 2: I think that the audience is... more forgiving back then
• 34:25
  Speaker 2: because people know the play. Like, this is a movie
• 34:28
  Speaker 2: where I think people know the play and they're going
• 34:32
  Speaker 2: to come into it with an expectation of the scene
• 34:35
  Speaker 2: playing a certain way. Like, those extra scenes in the
• 34:40
  Speaker 2: beginning are, I think, made with the presumption, well, I mean,
• 34:43
  Speaker 2: y'all know the show, so why would you pay a
• 34:46
  Speaker 2: nickel to see something you've seen before so we're going
• 34:48
  Speaker 2: to give you something extra? But then when you get
• 34:50
  Speaker 2: to the big beats... And Jonathan tied up in the,
• 34:53
  Speaker 2: or not Jonathan, Mortimer tied up in the chair is
• 34:56
  Speaker 2: a big thing around which a ton of stuff revolves
• 34:59
  Speaker 2: in the play. There's an expectation when you come in,
• 35:01
  Speaker 2: it's like, oh, I'm going to see that. I've got
• 35:04
  Speaker 2: to see that because that's one of the big things
• 35:07
  Speaker 2: that happens. And if you subtract or alter that too much,
• 35:11
  Speaker 2: the expectation of the audience is working against you in
• 35:14
  Speaker 2: that moment.
• 35:15
  Speaker 3: Because it's like, oh, no, wait a minute. That's not
• 35:17
  Speaker 3: how it happened.
• 35:18
  Speaker 2: I think it's one of those things where To your point, Tristan,
• 35:23
  Speaker 2: a film adaptation of a play treads a very, very
• 35:26
  Speaker 2: fine line as to how much it's going to change,
• 35:29
  Speaker 2: you know, without getting, you know, without the audience turning
• 35:33
  Speaker 2: on them. You know, it's sort of like something I
• 35:35
  Speaker 2: give actual credit to like Joel Schumacher is when he
• 35:38
  Speaker 2: adapted the stage play of Phantom of the Opera, he
• 35:41
  Speaker 2: actually did a pretty decent job of threading that needle
• 35:45
  Speaker 2: and giving things in a movie type of fashion, but
• 35:48
  Speaker 2: they were still the things I, having seen the show,
• 35:51
  Speaker 2: I'm like, this better be in there or I'm going
• 35:53
  Speaker 2: to be mad because it's got to be in there.
• 35:55
  Speaker 2: So maybe this is just a product of that. But Darren,
• 36:00
  Speaker 2: you mentioned before that the cinematography, just like the editing,
• 36:03
  Speaker 2: the music is a part of it. Now, with a
• 36:06
  Speaker 2: stage play, you can't lean on the music the way
• 36:08
  Speaker 2: you can in a movie. Is there anything about the
• 36:11
  Speaker 2: music here that you were like, yeah, that's a great score, Mr.
• 36:15
  Speaker 3: Max Steiner?
• 36:15
  Speaker 2: Or was this something where you're like, They had to
• 36:17
  Speaker 2: have music because that's just an expectation.
• 36:19
  Speaker 3: Yeah, a little more on the latter.
• 36:22
  Speaker 4: Just like the cinematography is accenting moments, the music is too.
• 36:29
  Speaker 4: It's a lot of dun-dun-dun, like, oh, something's happening. I
• 36:33
  Speaker 4: couldn't name a single cue off of memory from this, which, again,
• 36:37
  Speaker 4: isn't bad. It's a play, and there's nothing to put
• 36:41
  Speaker 4: into it. It's not a musical play. It's not a
• 36:43
  Speaker 4: play of singing and dancing. So I forgive it for that.
• 36:47
  Speaker 4: I'm not saying I'm not impressed with the music. I'm
• 36:50
  Speaker 4: just saying it's a talkie. We got to have some
• 36:54
  Speaker 4: music in the background or we're going to get bored.
• 36:58
  Speaker 3: It does its job. Yeah, it does its job. Yeah,
• 37:00
  Speaker 3: that's fair. That's very fair.
• 37:02
  Speaker 2: I mean, it's interesting to me because this is a comedy.
• 37:05
  Speaker 2: And so- I think the thing we haven't addressed directly,
• 37:09
  Speaker 2: and Tristan, I'll toss it to you first. Here you
• 37:12
  Speaker 2: are on your rewatch of a movie that you broke
• 37:16
  Speaker 2: that poor woman's heart about.
• 37:17
  Speaker 3: But this time around, did you laugh? I did. Oh, good.
• 37:22
  Speaker 2: I'm thrilled to hear it because that's the mark of
• 37:24
  Speaker 2: a comedy. It needs to make you laugh. Did you
• 37:26
  Speaker 2: laugh a lot or were they chuckles? Was it like
• 37:28
  Speaker 2: laughter or was it like.
• 37:30
  Speaker 3: It was, I think, one laughter and a few chuckles
• 37:35
  Speaker 3: and that was it, though. Like this was not a
• 37:37
  Speaker 3: knee slapper. Like this was not, I mean, the ants
• 37:40
  Speaker 3: were my favorite. The ants were absolutely my favorite. Even
• 37:44
  Speaker 3: how like the, um, the one, the, the first ant
• 37:46
  Speaker 3: that we see, like just the way that she kind
• 37:48
  Speaker 3: of jaunts through the house. I'm such a sucker for
• 37:51
  Speaker 3: that kind of characterization of affectation when she just kind
• 37:55
  Speaker 3: of trots to the kitchen. And I, I love the,
• 37:58
  Speaker 3: not what's what I'm looking for. It was not the,
• 38:02
  Speaker 3: not the blindness, but like the, um, The naivety of
• 38:07
  Speaker 3: what they're doing.
• 38:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 38:09
  Speaker 3: Like that is charming because they're insane. They're literally insane. And,
• 38:14
  Speaker 3: but they're nice people, but then they're just like, Oh,
• 38:16
  Speaker 3: you're all alone. You don't have any family. Let's send
• 38:19
  Speaker 3: you to the Lord. It's right. It's, it's terrifying in reality,
• 38:24
  Speaker 3: but in this, in this, through this lens, it's comedic.
• 38:29
  Speaker 3: It's kind of like how sitcoms work where think about
• 38:31
  Speaker 3: any sitcom, literally any sitcom multicam, of course, Where if
• 38:36
  Speaker 3: you were around those people for more than 24 hours,
• 38:39
  Speaker 3: you would murder them. Everyone in a sitcom is a
• 38:42
  Speaker 3: terrible person. But yet it's funny because you're watching it.
• 38:47
  Speaker 3: You're observing it like you're not living through it. And
• 38:50
  Speaker 3: I think that's Arsenic and Old Lace's bread and butter.
• 38:54
  Speaker 3: Don't look at it too closely. Don't think about it
• 38:57
  Speaker 3: too hard and you'll find it funny.
• 38:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, we should take a pause because we've
• 39:02
  Speaker 2: talked about a lot about this movie, but Gina Dare
• 39:04
  Speaker 2: and Josephine Hall as the two aunts, you know, they
• 39:08
  Speaker 2: are the backbone of the entire thing. And I do
• 39:13
  Speaker 2: think it's worth, I'm glad you called out that affectation, Tristan,
• 39:18
  Speaker 2: but Darren, was there anything about their performances that leapt
• 39:22
  Speaker 2: out to you? Did you believe these aunts? Did you
• 39:24
  Speaker 2: love them despite their murderous ways?
• 39:26
  Speaker 4: Just, I mean, I never saw murder like per, per se, maybe. No, I, yeah,
• 39:33
  Speaker 4: I liked them. I, they're, they're very much scenery. Like
• 39:37
  Speaker 4: they're kind of always there, but maybe not in frame,
• 39:40
  Speaker 4: you know, that kind of a character.
• 39:43
  Speaker 1: But yeah, I think it's so funny. They're very stable.
• 39:47
  Speaker 4: Like, They know what they know. They, they have their
• 39:50
  Speaker 4: opinions and their views of what they're going to do.
• 39:53
  Speaker 4: They have plans. They well executed plans and everything kind
• 39:57
  Speaker 4: of swirls around them, but they're insane. You know, their,
• 40:00
  Speaker 4: their choices are not good choices, but no, it comes
• 40:04
  Speaker 4: across really well. I, I, I wouldn't even approach like
• 40:08
  Speaker 4: who else I would cast because I would have to
• 40:10
  Speaker 4: really think about that era, you know, who could fill
• 40:13
  Speaker 4: those shoes. But I think they, They did great. They
• 40:16
  Speaker 4: were also distinct enough. They weren't like the Una ant
• 40:20
  Speaker 4: that were interchangeable. They acted a little bit differently in
• 40:25
  Speaker 4: how they talked to Mortimer and all of that. So
• 40:28
  Speaker 4: I think they were a great performance.
• 40:30
  Speaker 3: Well cast.
• 40:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that they really are the saving grace
• 40:35
  Speaker 2: of the film for any other faults that it has.
• 40:37
  Speaker 2: And I think it's really easy, as we did through
• 40:40
  Speaker 2: the majority of this conversation, to sort of fixate on
• 40:42
  Speaker 2: Cary Grant. He's Cary Grant. He's the big star. You've
• 40:45
  Speaker 2: got to pay attention to him.
• 40:46
  Speaker 3: He's the lead.
• 40:47
  Speaker 2: But I think this entire thing falls apart without casting
• 40:52
  Speaker 2: the aunts well. And I think that in that case,
• 40:54
  Speaker 2: they absolutely knocked it out of the park with this one.
• 40:58
  Speaker 2: Because these women inhabit these aunts so much that even
• 41:04
  Speaker 2: though I have seen them in other work, I forget
• 41:07
  Speaker 2: who they were outside of this context. And that's the
• 41:10
  Speaker 2: mark of truly gifted. I never lose Cary Grant. I
• 41:15
  Speaker 2: lose them. They're there. They are these characters. And I
• 41:19
  Speaker 2: think that is the saving grace of the film through
• 41:22
  Speaker 2: and through because I never doubt them. I never doubt
• 41:25
  Speaker 2: their conviction. I never doubt that they don't under, like,
• 41:29
  Speaker 2: I don't want to say they don't understand, but like their,
• 41:33
  Speaker 2: their logic tree of, self-justification for what they're doing, the
• 41:39
  Speaker 2: way they play it falls completely in line with a
• 41:42
  Speaker 2: sweet old lady. Like, they just really think they're doing
• 41:45
  Speaker 2: something nice for people. And it's like, I buy it
• 41:49
  Speaker 2: because of the performances here, even though, again, had I
• 41:52
  Speaker 2: seen corpses in.
• 41:54
  Speaker 3: The basement, I'd have been like, oh my God, get
• 41:57
  Speaker 3: out of the house. You've got serial killers in there.
• 42:01
  Speaker 1: They got to hire, they got to hire body count
• 42:03
  Speaker 1: the Ted Bundy for God's sake.
• 42:05
  Speaker 3: Like, come on, get out of there. You know, that
• 42:07
  Speaker 3: sort of thing.
• 42:07
  Speaker 2: And you know, it's, which, you know, again, that that's
• 42:10
  Speaker 2: another allowance that you make for comedy because I don't
• 42:14
  Speaker 2: care how much I love the family member I'm visiting.
• 42:16
  Speaker 2: If I go in the basement and there's tons of
• 42:18
  Speaker 2: dead bodies, I'm not hanging around and be like, yeah,
• 42:20
  Speaker 2: I got to get him committed. I got, I got
• 42:21
  Speaker 2: to cover this up. I'm like, I don't care what
• 42:23
  Speaker 2: this does to the family name.
• 42:24
  Speaker 3: I am gone.
• 42:26
  Speaker 2: I'm like out the door faster than a flash. So,
• 42:29
  Speaker 2: you know, that's a bit of fun, I guess. But yeah,
• 42:33
  Speaker 2: I mean, I think that though it's a two hour
• 42:36
  Speaker 2: film and I would argue it is a comedy that
• 42:39
  Speaker 2: overstays its welcome. There are a lot of things that
• 42:43
  Speaker 2: could move a lot faster. That entire prologue can be cut.
• 42:46
  Speaker 2: That's going to save you 10 minutes right there. There
• 42:48
  Speaker 2: are certain moments to your point about Tristan where the editing,
• 42:53
  Speaker 2: if it's tightened up, the jokes land better. There are
• 42:56
  Speaker 2: even certain camera choices where you could have played the
• 42:59
  Speaker 2: cartoonish menace of the approach to the doorway of Jonathan
• 43:03
  Speaker 2: and Dr. Einstein like a horror movie. like had a
• 43:06
  Speaker 2: lot of fun with it in terms of like casting
• 43:08
  Speaker 2: the shadow, like Frankenstein on the porch and stuff like that.
• 43:12
  Speaker 2: But I, you know, I, I feel like we've, we've
• 43:15
  Speaker 2: really taken the discussion as far as it can go
• 43:18
  Speaker 2: with this. So I think we should have our final
• 43:20
  Speaker 2: thoughts and, and ratings. And so I think the audience
• 43:24
  Speaker 2: wants to save Tristan for the end because they know
• 43:26
  Speaker 2: he's coming from a place of hate originally. And we
• 43:29
  Speaker 2: want to see, we will, we want to see a
• 43:31
  Speaker 2: redemption arc from, for Arsenic and Old Lace with the
• 43:35
  Speaker 2: Riddell family here. So, Darren, we'll start with you. Arsenic
• 43:40
  Speaker 2: and Old Lace, final thoughts and rating.
• 43:41
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, I definitely wanted to mention John Alexander
• 43:46
  Speaker 4: as Teddy Brewster. A fun, you know, role. We can't
• 43:51
  Speaker 4: do a review without talking about him. And it's just enough. Like,
• 43:55
  Speaker 4: we get just enough Teddy scenes that it's not annoying,
• 43:59
  Speaker 4: you know, because it's a very one-note aha on the trumpet.
• 44:02
  Speaker 1: You know, type of character.
• 44:04
  Speaker 3: But it works.
• 44:05
  Speaker 4: And it's also, you know, it, it is, it is probably,
• 44:08
  Speaker 4: I mean, getting Teddy committed is one of the driving
• 44:13
  Speaker 4: forces of the plot, like beyond the secret, it's like
• 44:16
  Speaker 4: the number two and getting the paper signed and all
• 44:19
  Speaker 4: the eyes dotted and the T's crossed.
• 44:21
  Speaker 3: So it works really well.
• 44:23
  Speaker 4: But I think you really nailed it, John, when you
• 44:26
  Speaker 4: said it, there are certain aspects of this movie that,
• 44:29
  Speaker 4: because of the play that it's like, that's a beloved
• 44:33
  Speaker 4: part of the play. Like you can't make this movie
• 44:35
  Speaker 4: and not have Teddy not have a staircase for him
• 44:38
  Speaker 4: to run up. Like that's the first thing you better
• 44:40
  Speaker 4: build on this set or it's not going to work.
• 44:43
  Speaker 1: So yeah.
• 44:44
  Speaker 4: So again, a fun movie, you know, it's funny in
• 44:50
  Speaker 4: a spastic way, like the accumulation of everything that's going
• 44:54
  Speaker 4: wrong is what tips it.
• 44:56
  Speaker 1: But I wouldn't necessarily say it's like joke funny.
• 44:59
  Speaker 4: Or or one line or zinger funny it's just the
• 45:03
  Speaker 4: absurdity of the situation uh so i'm just i'm saying
• 45:07
  Speaker 4: that in the caveat with my my rating um i'm
• 45:10
  Speaker 4: gonna give it a three it's like right in the
• 45:12
  Speaker 4: middle for me you know it's enjoyable when it comes
• 45:15
  Speaker 4: on or we put it on you know i enjoy
• 45:17
  Speaker 4: watching it um but it's not a favorite. But I
• 45:22
  Speaker 4: think it does make me interested in eventually finding a
• 45:25
  Speaker 4: performance on stage and getting to view it in that realm.
• 45:29
  Speaker 4: I think that would be really interesting because it works
• 45:32
  Speaker 4: as this film, but I think it works best as
• 45:35
  Speaker 4: the play it is.
• 45:36
  Speaker 2: If I can lay a hand on the recording from
• 45:39
  Speaker 2: decades ago for me, I'll pass it along to you.
• 45:42
  Speaker 2: I know it exists because it was videotaped and it
• 45:46
  Speaker 2: exists somewhere.
• 45:48
  Speaker 3: You need to find it, John. Send it to us.
• 45:50
  Speaker 3: We do. I need to send it to you.
• 45:53
  Speaker 2: I hear everything you're saying, and I have a deep
• 45:58
  Speaker 2: affection for the material for obvious reasons. I even remember
• 46:02
  Speaker 2: on the last night as a way of defiance for
• 46:04
  Speaker 2: the director, the play ends with one last guy showing
• 46:08
  Speaker 2: up at the house, and they're setting the scene where
• 46:10
  Speaker 2: they sit down to pour him the wine, and it
• 46:12
  Speaker 2: was a one tiny moment thing that my friend Kevin.
• 46:16
  Speaker 3: Got to play.
• 46:18
  Speaker 2: And so as the curtain was coming down on the
• 46:20
  Speaker 2: last night, he added falling out of the chair dead.
• 46:26
  Speaker 2: Just as the final punctuation joke. And it landed so badly.
• 46:31
  Speaker 2: Like you felt bad for him. You were like, oh,
• 46:33
  Speaker 2: you went for it. And boy, that didn't work for you.
• 46:37
  Speaker 2: It gets back to the whole dead body thing. It's
• 46:39
  Speaker 2: like if I see them actually kill somebody, it's.
• 46:41
  Speaker 3: Not funny anymore.
• 46:42
  Speaker 4: But.
• 46:44
  Speaker 2: I will go ahead and wind up giving this a
• 46:47
  Speaker 2: three and a half. My brain says three. I give
• 46:50
  Speaker 2: it a three and a half because my heart gets
• 46:51
  Speaker 2: in the way and the battle between the two.
• 46:54
  Speaker 3: So I'm giving this a three and.
• 46:55
  Speaker 2: A half, fully embracing the fact that I have a
• 47:00
  Speaker 2: deep emotional connection to the source material. And that's where
• 47:04
  Speaker 2: I'm going to land. So Tristan, I'm looking forward to
• 47:09
  Speaker 2: to finding out this rating, I'm bracing myself. I know
• 47:13
  Speaker 2: that the missus is bracing herself. Where are we coming
• 47:16
  Speaker 2: in with our arsenic and old lace this time?
• 47:19
  Speaker 3: When I saw it the first time, I would have
• 47:20
  Speaker 3: given it a two as just straight bad where I
• 47:24
  Speaker 3: was just like, this is garbage. This is not funny.
• 47:26
  Speaker 3: This is weird. After watching it as I'm a great
• 47:30
  Speaker 3: deal older now, seen way more older films, seen way
• 47:34
  Speaker 3: more comedy films and things by Grant and Capra, Uh,
• 47:39
  Speaker 3: I'm honestly, this one, this watch, even though it was better,
• 47:43
  Speaker 3: I'm only bumping it up a half star. So I'm
• 47:45
  Speaker 3: giving this a 2.5. This is a straight down the
• 47:48
  Speaker 3: middle for me. Like, uh, because I do give half stars, Darren,
• 47:52
  Speaker 3: this is straight down the middle. This is what I did.
• 47:55
  Speaker 3: Like 2.5 for me is mediocre. It's a, eh, you know,
• 47:58
  Speaker 3: like there's some good, there's some bad, you know, like
• 48:01
  Speaker 3: three to me is liked it, but has its issues.
• 48:04
  Speaker 3: I can't really get it to that. where I'm just
• 48:07
  Speaker 3: kind of like, there's just a lot wrong with it
• 48:09
  Speaker 3: to me, where there's not enough chuckles, there's not enough
• 48:12
  Speaker 3: laugh per minute in order to bump it up. So
• 48:15
  Speaker 3: to me, this is not Capra's best work. Well, there
• 48:18
  Speaker 3: you have it, folks.
• 48:19
  Speaker 2: We've come in with a Halloween classic, and we've laid
• 48:23
  Speaker 2: our ratings out there on the table. Go ahead and
• 48:25
  Speaker 2: give it a watch if you haven't recently, and tell
• 48:28
  Speaker 2: us if we got it right or if we got
• 48:29
  Speaker 2: it wrong. And in the meantime... We're preparing for a
• 48:33
  Speaker 2: whole different journey here on House Lights starting next week. So, Darren,
• 48:39
  Speaker 2: what are we looking at coming up here?
• 48:40
  Speaker 4: Oh, it's been great here in the House of Capra. Next,
• 48:43
  Speaker 4: we're covering John Carpenter of the 1980s with Escape from
• 48:48
  Speaker 4: New York.
• 48:48
  Speaker 1: Next on House Lights. Join the revolution. Join the nerd party.