Latest / Health with Hashimoto’s - Thyroid or Immune Education for Autoimmune Thyroid Disease / 147 // Creating a customized diet for your Hashimoto’s needs: Interview with Dietitian Shannon Davis

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147 // Creating a customized diet for your Hashimoto’s needs: Interview with Dietitian Shannon Davis · Health with Hashimoto’s - Thyroid or Immune Education for Autoimmune Thyroid Disease

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Welcome back to another episode of Health with Hashimoto's, and I am so excited
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to have a guest for you today.
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You are just going to love this interview. I have Shannon Davis with us, and she is a dietitian.
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She's a registered dietitian with 18 years of experience.
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She helps people reverse chronic condition by addressing root causes,
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especially insulin resistant, rather than relying on outdated calorie counting models.
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Her background spans everything from organ transplant to sports nutrition to
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bariatrics and pharmaceutical sales.
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And today she has her own virtual practice as she integrates tools like low-carb
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and ketogenic diets, intermittent fasting and nutraceuticals,
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all to help people support their own healing.
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She's also a coach. She serves on a founding board of the American Diabetes
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Society and works with an endocrinologist.
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And I am so excited to have you here today, Shannon. you are going to be a blessing
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for every single listener who is struggling with like, what do I do? How do I eat?
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Like balancing it all and figuring out what is good for them.
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So before we dive in, can you tell us a little bit about yourself and your story?
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Sure. Thank you. Thank you so much, Esther, for having me. I love when I get
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an opportunity to just try to teach people and help, you know,
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clear up some of the confusion because there's so much information out there.
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I think a lot of times people want to do right. They just are in like analysis
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paralysis because they don't know what to do.
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And so I appreciate the opportunity.
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My story, I mean, you gave me such an amazing introduction. Thank you.
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It's different. I became a dietitian because I truly care about people and want
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to help people and I loved health and fitness.
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And unfortunately, the things that I was taught in school are still being taught today, but they are.
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It's information that's keeping people stuck.
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And it's not intentional, just like doctors aren't intentionally keeping people on medication.
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But if we don't look at, hey, what we're doing isn't working,
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people are still sick and getting sicker,
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shouldn't we consider how we're
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talking and what we're talking about and maybe do things differently?
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And so I did a small stent and organ transplant We did liver,
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kidney, pancreas I did a little bit in bariatrics Most of my career has been
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in nephrology Where the average pill count is 19 These people on dialysis,
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19 pills And the two main causes of dialysis are hypertension and diabetes And,
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you know, we have a problem Talking to them about eating every two to three
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hours lots of fruits and vegetables, whole grains,
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lean proteins, fat-free dairy.
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It's keeping people on medication, continuing to fill dialysis chairs.
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And so in 2018, it literally, I was awoken, like, wow.
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I am continually to have conversations with people.
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And I think they feel better and we generally like each other,
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but they're not leaving me any better than they came to me.
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And so I knew that I had to do differently.
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And so my own health, you know, I am an avid CrossFitter. I exercise a ton.
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I follow the same information that I was teaching you.
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Let's eat every two to three hours. Let's focus on, you know,
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whole grains, lots of fruits and vegetables, no fat, right?
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It was still the low-fat, fat-free, very, very lean way of eating.
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And it sent my triglycerides through the roof.
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And, you know, the first thing that happened was my doctor wanted to put me on a statin.
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Well, that should have been, you know, the first red light because statins don't
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lower triglycerides. So why are we even talking about that?
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And eating fat does not equal fat in the blood.
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Right. I just read a study today about that.
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And so telling somebody to eat fat free, stop eating fried foods because your
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triglycerides are high.
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That's not the problem. Triglycerides come from sugar and carbohydrates.
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So it was all that intake of those whole grains and those fat-free pretzels
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and all that fruit that was causing my triglycerides to be through the roof.
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So I had to do something about it for my own health.
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And I went down the rabbit hole and I started studying intermittent fasting,
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low-carb, ketogenic diets, carnivore, reading books by Dr.
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Ben Bickman called Why We Get Sick. I highly recommend that book to your listeners.
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It is a very easy reader. and your jaw will be on the floor when you're done
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reading that about like, oh my God, now it makes sense.
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Dr. Robert Lustig, he wrote a book called Metabolical. Dr. Jason Fung,
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The Diabetes and Obesity Code.
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There's so, Dr. Ken Berry. There's so many of these amazing doctors and professors
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with this information out there that just kind of gets hidden and not talked about.
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And so after I started learning it, I said, you know what? I can't hold this in.
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I'm going to talk about it to people who want to listen. And if people want
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to listen, and that's really how I got started, I got introduced to some natural supplements.
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I don't even call them supplements. They're food products that help people bridge
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the gap from where they are and where they need to be.
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They help people make fasting easier.
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It helps people break up with carbohydrates because, by the way,
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they are very addictive.
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They were creative that way to stimulate the dopamine in our brain for us to
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eat more of the snacky foods. It's no coincidence. We're not weak.
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We don't lack discipline or willpower.
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They've specifically been made.
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Big Tobacco took all of their money and their scientists and put it into making food addicted.
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Yes, yeah, which is so crazy.
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Yeah, and that's kind of where I ended up today is after leaving dialysis,
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I went into pharmaceutical sales and started my own side business while I was
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doing pharmaceutical sales, teaching people about metabolic health,
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leveraging this food product to help people make the changes that they need
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to make, to lower their glucose, to lower their cholesterol naturally.
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And people started, I started seeing healing unlike I've ever seen before in my life.
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And it just got me hungrier and hungrier and more passionate about it.
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And June of last year, I left corporate to do my own virtual practice where
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all I do is teach people every day, every day about how to heal their body through food and nutrition.
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That is so good. Good job of learning so much.
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I mean, because like you said, you didn't learn it in college.
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You had to do all of this learning on your own.
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And now you're taking everything that you were passionate about learning and
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you're simplifying it for others and educating them.
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That's that's fantastic so good job
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thank you thank you so was there ever like
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one specific turning point where you realized that
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a one-size-fits-all nutrition approach isn't working for you or for your clients
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like I mean I wouldn't say that there's like like I can't remember like one
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specific but I've I kind of look at a little bit from from the organ transplant
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from the from the dialysis,
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from the bariatrics, because most of our organ transplant were fatty liver disease.
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We did liver, kidney, and pancreas. So kidneys were from hypertension or diabetes,
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okay? So let's keep that in mind.
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Liver, we're from fatty liver disease. Pancreas was either, was type 1 diabetes, right?
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And then if we move into bariatrics, people, I can promise you if somebody's
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coming to have bariatric surgery and they're 400 plus pounds,
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you can bet your bottom dollar they've done counting calories before.
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Right. Right? This isn't their first, this is the last resort.
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Yeah. And then, so if we look at these things, and then dialysis,
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the two main causes of dialysis are, like I said, type 2 diabetes and hypertension.
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They all stem from food. These are all food diseases.
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Society has done nothing but get larger and sicker since we started counting calories.
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That paradigm, eat less and move more, has been preached since Jane Fonda,
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Richard Simmons, back in the 80s, right? Yeah.
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And then Snack Walls came out. Snack Walls is probably, everybody can relate
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to that, the fat-free craze.
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Well, fat has double the calories than carbs and protein.
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So if we cut back on fat, that means we can eat more carbs and protein if we're
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counting calories. calories, and yet we came.
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This is what happened to obesity, heart disease, and diabetes.
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Our bodies do not have calorie receptors. We're not a closed loop system.
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It's about what we eat. And here's why calories don't matter.
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You can take someone who has type 1 diabetes and feed them 20,000 to 30,000
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calories, and they'll die of starvation.
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Oh, my goodness. Unless you give them insulin.
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Right. It's a hormone problem, not a calorie problem.
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So if we look at the foods that we eat versus how many calories they contain.
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Your body's going to change, your health is going to improve,
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and you're not going to feel controlled by hunger.
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Hunger always wins. That's what happened to The Biggest Loser.
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They cut calories until they couldn't anymore.
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You know, they exercised until they couldn't anymore. And they tanked their metabolism.
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And what happened? They all gained it back.
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Yeah. Yep, they worked so hard. So hard.
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They're told to do and then they have
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a temporary success and then it all
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comes back and they feel like a failure they feel like they
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wasted their time their effort they wasted their hope and now they're back where
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they started or worse and that's what we see today right that's where most people
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are today is you walk into a gym and and i mean i did it's every day i walk
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in and i'm like There's the same people on the treadmill.
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They're there before I got there. They're sweating their butt off.
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They're still there when I'm done.
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And they look the same year after year after year. So it's not working.
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Hours of cardio are not the answer. Eating less food is not the answer.
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We need to look at what we're eating.
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Right. So like going off of that, how would you recommend somebody to look at
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what they're eating? I mean, in the Hashimoto's world, we hear so many dogmas,
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like you have to do this and you have to do this and you have to restrict this.
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And some of those are in direct contradiction with other experts,
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like telling the same people exactly the opposite.
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So how do you approach that as a dietician? How does somebody know what's right for them? Right.
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And I'm glad you brought that up because there is no one size fits all.
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There is no perfect diet.
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You know, there is no magic.
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Everybody's individualized. In general terms, if I'm just going to generalize
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how someone should eat, I'm going to say we should all practice some type of
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time-restricted eating.
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Now, the extent of that is going to be individual, but everybody can go 12 hours
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with gut rest. That is healthy.
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So guess what? When I teach somebody about time-restricted eating, I say 12 to 16 hours.
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And then based on you is where we'll gauge, do we do longer? Do we do shorter?
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Every person can, I think, can agree on whether you're vegan,
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paleo, vegetarian, or carnivore,
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that the most important thing about what we eat is to get rid of ultra-processed foods.
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Like even with Hashimoto's, right? We should cut out ultra-processed food. It's not even food.
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Y'all, food is information to our body.
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And our body was made to process information from carbohydrates,
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from proteins, from fats, from real foods.
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When we ultra process them and we add chemicals and we add food dyes,
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our body really doesn't know what to do.
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Like with that information, the proper hormones that control our hunger,
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that control our satiety, aren't released.
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And so we can keep eating and yet we should be full.
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If we look at calories, I just ate 2,000 calories. How in the world can I still be hungry?
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Well, your body didn't get the proper information it needed,
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right? Your leptin wasn't turned on.
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Your ghrelin wasn't turned off, right?
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The GLP-1 wasn't created in our gut.
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So some time-restricted eating, eliminating ultra-processed foods.
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We have been encouraged since the 80s in the invention of the food pyramid to
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eat lots of grains and lots of fruits and vegetables.
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Now, we don't need that many grains Grains are carbohydrates Grains convert
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to sugar Fruit converts to sugar Now,
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I will have people argue with me all day But honey's natural Fruit's natural
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Grains are natural They are So is sugarcane But so are rocks Do we eat rocks, right?
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It's what it does in our body, right?
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And if you have an intolerance because you have insulin resistance or you have
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type 2 diabetes. You don't need so much of these things.
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So I think like cutting back on the amount of carbohydrates that we eat and
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I think focusing on animal proteins.
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Not because I am saying that, you know,
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I understand people do things for ethical reasons, but if we're looking at a
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physiological answer, animal proteins are healthier than plant-based proteins.
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That has nothing to do with ethics, with anything. It's just pure science. The bioavailability.
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Plants have things called anti-nutrients. They have lectins.
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They have oxalates, phytic acids, things that.
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Block the absorption of proper nutrients.
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Y'all, plants can't bite or kick or climb a tree or run. So they release chemical warfare.
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And it is real. It's real.
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And so, you know, while I used to be a big fan on eat a ton of spinach,
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eat a ton of these things, beets and raspberries, y'all, they have chemicals
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in them that attack the inside of our body.
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And you wonder why sometimes you're achy, but I'm doing that fruit smoothie.
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It's got green juice in it. Why do I hurt all the time?
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Why does my stomach look like nine months pregnant? Because I'm eating all the things I'm supposed to.
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Well, are you really supposed to? So time-restricted eating,
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focusing on animal proteins, eliminating seed oils, right?
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Seed oils are highly inflammatory. What do I mean by seed oils.
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Sunflower oil, peanut oil, safflower oil, canola oil, vegetable oil,
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cottonseed oil, probably forgetting one.
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Focusing on avocado oil, olive oil, coconut oil, believe it or not,
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butter, real butter, ghee, lard, tallow.
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These are your best sources of good quality fats.
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And then high fiber What you can tolerate in that category of fiber is going
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to be individual But things such as avocados, asparagus, broccoli,
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brussel sprouts, cauliflower.
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Zucchini, yellow squash, cabbage, cucumbers Now again,
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it's going to be individual on what of those vegetables are okay for you to
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eat It's all individual But that's what I'm a big fan of.
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And if you eat those foods, there's no need to calorie count.
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Like, really, your body will release the proper hormones. You will feel satisfied.
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And you won't feel the need to snack all of the time.
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Right. Right. I love that. And so one question that comes to mind as you're
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counting all of those out, which I love all of those.
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And I've had Sally Norton on the podcast to talk about oxalates.
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And I tell you, I got more feedback after that interview than probably any other
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interview because people are like, what do I eat now?
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Because I was eating all of this spinach and the almonds and doing all of these healthy superfoods.
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And I know for me, every morning, I had organic cacao because it's a superfood
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and it's super high in oxalates.
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And every morning, I had chia seeds for the fiber and the healthy fat,
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and it's super high in oxalates. Probably in almond milk or oat milk. Yep.
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So all of a sudden, I'm like, what do I eat? But I really, really appreciate
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that you just listed off a bunch of stuff that we can eat, not just the can'ts.
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So thank you. Thank you very much for that.
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Well, we focus on what we can't have and we want that much more.
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But there's so many things that we can have.
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And look, I mean, no disrespect when I say this, but to be the smartest species
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in the world, we're the dumbest.
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You know, an animal will eat something and it makes them
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sick and they do not eat it again they like
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you know they're done right not us eat
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it and it's like we're bloated we're constipated we have acid reflux and we
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keep eating it because somebody said it's healthy right right so then what what
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would be the biggest things that you look for to figure out,
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you know, is this particular food good for me or not?
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Especially if it's on the things that you just said, like an animal protein
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or high and good quality fat, you know, not ultra processed.
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How do you whittle down from there to figure out what is personally good or not? Right.
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So some of the things I like to look at with, well, number one,
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I'm going to say, what is your goal?
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Like not everybody's goal is to lose weight. That's not my goal.
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My goal is to be metabolically healthy, to have, to be very insulin sensitized,
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sensitive, to be, you know, to be lean, but not too thin.
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Like, I want to put on muscle. So, number one, it's going to be,
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what is your goal? That's the most important.
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98% of people I work with want to lose weight. That is their goal.
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So then we look at, okay, have you had labs done? I love to look at labs.
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That just gives us an idea of what's going on on the inside, right?
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Because the outside, I went on for years thinking I was pristine health and
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the whole time my triglycerides were terrible, right? I had no idea. You don't feel that.
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So which labs do you like? Is it like fasting insulin? Like I love a fasting
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insulin, which nobody has.
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And guys, I would encourage you, please ask for a fasting insulin.
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And your goal is six or less. That's optimal.
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Now your lab work may have a range on there that's like up to 20. That is not accurate.
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That is not optimal, okay? I like to look in an HDL, the good cholesterol.
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Most people don't talk about that. Why? Because you're not really a medication
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to bump that up. So we don't hear a lot about that, but you want your HDL above 55.
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LDL, I don't really look at. I don't really look so much at LDL,
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and I don't look so much at total cholesterol, because if you have high HDL,
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low triglycerides, that ratio 1.5 or less, you're pretty metabolically healthy.
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And so LDL really doesn't become
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an issue unless it's small and oxidized Well, how does it get that way?
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It gets that way from high levels of inflammation and from being very insulin resistant, right?
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So those are some of the labs We look at thyroid, right?
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You're the thyroid expert We're going to look at thyroid Because that is huge
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That's huge And I think a lot of times people are thrown on Synthroid.
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And it's way too fast when we need to look at the other things that are going
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on, right? What else do I like to look at?
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CRP, which is the level of inflammation. It's your C-reactive protein.
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If you're highly inflamed, it's gonna likely mean that you have a lot of cortisol
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going on in your body, which means you're gonna have a lot of visceral fat.
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You're gonna have a harder time losing weight.
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We look at A1C. Now, A1C isn't as important to me as a fasting insulin because
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you can have a normal A1C and be very insulin resistant.
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So those are just some easy labs that everybody will have access to.
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So then, like I said, I like to look at your labs. I want to see your goal.
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And then literally what I will tell people is, okay, let's look at your lifestyle.
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Do you work nine to five? Great. Let's talk about some intermittent fasting.
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That is the easiest thing to incorporate into a working person's schedule because
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a lot of times people stress out and they get anxious because they're trying
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to figure out what do I eat?
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What do I bring with me? How do I fit in? I'm going to eat in the car. Let's just not eat.
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We're okay. It's okay to not eat. I promise you're not going to starve.
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You're not going to wreck your metabolism.
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You're actually going to improve it because you're going to allow your insulin to come down.
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My goal is to get insulin low and keep it low. So that means stress, sleep.
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That means cutting out the ultra-processed foods, incorporating the time-restricted eating.
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And then I'm a big fan on protein. I think as a nation, especially as women,
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as we age, we don't get enough protein.
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I don't know if we're afraid of bulking up. I don't know if we're afraid of
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gaining weight, but we don't eat enough protein.
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We need protein. And the older we get, the less we absorb properly.
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And so we need more. And I tell people I'm a big fan of one gram per pound of your goal weight.
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And in a perfect world, we're going to get that from animal foods.
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Not a lean chicken breast But a chicken thigh Maybe some with the skin on it, right?
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Maybe some 80-20 ground beef And don't be afraid of the fat Some eggs with the yolk, right?
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There's so much nutrition In the parts of this food that we discard Because
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of the fear of fat And then I'm going to encourage healthy fats, right?
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Using butter Using the bacon Like leave the grease in the pan From cooking the
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bacon to cook your eggs in on.
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But I even go so far as to say, what kind of pan are you cooking your eggs in, right?
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We don't talk about that, but that is important, right?
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Are you using the nonstick that have the terrible chemicals in it?
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They call them the forever chemicals.
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And they've been shown to cause, they call them obesogens. They affect hormones.
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They affect thyroid. They affect all of that. And
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then if you don't I leave vegetables As a personal preference Not everybody
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wants to do vegetables I will say this If you have autoimmune disease I'm a
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big advocate for carnivore And I know a lot of people are going to be like Oh my god,
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that's extreme Well, autoimmune is extreme And if you're highly inflamed And
25:08
your autoimmune disease is uncontrolled Then carnivore is a.
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Ultra-elimination diet. But animal proteins are very healing.
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They're very anti-inflammatory. And if you struggle with an autoimmune condition,
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it's going to be very beneficial for you. Does that mean you have to do it forever? No.
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But that's going to be where we start.
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You know, and then, so for people that are in that position,
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we're not going to eat a lot of vegetables, right we're going
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to focus on our fat and our protein but if if
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you don't then then i still recommend that
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you get the bulk of your vegetables from non-starchy
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and your vet your fruit yes i know fruits natural but fruit is is genetically
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modified even if it's organic a grape shouldn't be that big okay an apple shouldn't
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be that big fruit is different than it was hundreds of years ago.
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So when we eat fruit, we are eating a sugar bomb.
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So I'm not saying that you can't have it, but we don't need to snack on it all day.
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And I always encourage people to eat it at the end of their meal. Save it for the end.
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After you've had a good source of fiber and protein, it will lessen that glucose spike, right?
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So that's really it. And I let people kind of pick out, I don't ever say,
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Esther, you have to eat beef and green beans You know,
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I let people kind of pick the foods that they want Or you're not going to follow
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it But I will give people structure I don't count calories If we count anything,
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it's going to be carbohydrates.
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And we do that if you are type 2 diabetic We do that if you have fatty liver
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We do that if you're morbidly obese Okay,
26:59
One of my nurse practitioners a while
27:01
back, that was the first thing she recommended is that I go carnivore.
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So I'd love your perspective because I eat meat, but I don't enjoy eating meat.
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And the thought of going carnivore, my initial thought was, I'm going to starve
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because I don't like that. So what would be some tips for somebody thinking about going carnivore?
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Obviously, before they dive in, they're going to do a ton of research and figure out menu plans.
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But what would be some basic tips for somebody considering that? Yeah.
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So I'm going to tell you from personal preference, because when I went in carnivore
27:37
last year to do it so that I could speak of it, to have a lot of clients that go carnivore.
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And I feel like it's only fair for me to live it so that I can speak it.
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And it was a fantastic learning experience for me because I failed carnivore.
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Carnivore did not fail me. So I'm glad you're asking these questions.
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So take it from somebody who did not do it right.
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And guys, this is what I do for 19 years. This is all I've done is food and nutrition.
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So if I fail it, you know, then there's going to be a likelihood that a lot
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of people fail it. And here's why.
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Women in particular fail it and they tank their thyroid because they do not eat enough fat.
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So if you're cutting out, okay, so let me just give you a brief overview.
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You have your three macronutrients. You have carbs, you have protein, and you have fat.
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Two of those are sources of energy.
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Carbs and fat. Those are energy nutrients.
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Protein is not an energy macronutrient. It can be converted into energy,
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but primarily it's for growth and repair and enzymes and tendons and muscles and that, right?
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You get your energy from fat or carbs. If we're going carnivore,
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We're eliminating carbs as a source of energy.
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So what we're left with is protein and fat.
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So fat is already feared. We are, as a nation, we fear fat.
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As a sex, females fear fat even more than men.
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Okay, so now we're faced with this issue.
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The third reason, we fear fat, okay? Women don't eat enough fat,
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but fat is very satiating.
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So if you eat more fat, you're going to get fuller faster.
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And so you have a very good chance of being energy deficient or malnourished, right?
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So that's what happened to me.
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I went into it, and you almost need a one-to-one ratio of fat to protein.
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So if I'm going to try to eat 130 grams of protein a day, that means I need
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to aim for a minimum of 100 grams of fat. Okay.
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That is very hard to do. I ate a lot of chicken.
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That means you see people on there eating sticks of butter, and that's a good reason.
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You can't eat enough. You're trying to eat enough fat. It's hard to eat enough
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fat and enough protein to supply your body with the proper nutrients.
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So if you're not meeting those energy needs with fat, you're going to feel like poop.
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Your energy level is going to tank. You're going to lose weight very rapidly, right?
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And you don't want to lose, you don't want to have to convert the protein that
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you're eating into energy.
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So if someone's going to think about going carnivore You've got to focus on
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those extremely fat Fatty cuts of meat, right?
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There's a reason that carnivores eat ribeyes There's a reason that they cook
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in fat And then top their meat with fat It's to supply themselves with the proper
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amount of energy That's hard to eat I mean,
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think about it One egg has about five grams of fat, about seven grams of protein.
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Well, if you eat, let's say you eat six eggs, that's still only 30 grams of fat.
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That's still only, what, six times seven, 42 grams of protein.
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Sometimes six eggs is very satiating. Protein and fat are very satiating.
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And they take a long time to digest. So if you've eaten that and you're satisfied,
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well, then you might not be so hungry when it's time to eat again.
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So you eat one or two meals.
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And then you see how it's like it's an amazing way to eat, but you have to do it properly.
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Okay. So definitely not something that somebody is just going to jump into. too.
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I'm just going to have burgers today. That's not a healthy way to do it.
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Right, right, right. And you've got to make sure you get a proper electrolytes.
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Most people don't add in electrolytes. When you cut out carbs,
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you're going to lose a lot of water.
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Your insulin level is going to come down. Insulin tells the kidney to hold salt.
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So when insulin comes down, the kidney releases salt.
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With that goes water, sodium, potassium, all those minerals.
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And you have to replace those. So making sure you're focusing on getting enough
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fluids, that you're getting a ton of electrolytes.
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I'm talking about like adding in salt, pouring salt on your tongue,
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putting salt in your water, liberally seasoning your food, which again,
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we feared salt as well fat for so long.
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It's an amazing way to eat. It truly is. And it does a lot of things to help
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people, especially with autoimmune.
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And as long as it's done properly, you can do it and you can maintain it and you can be healthy.
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I personally think it's something that's incorporated, number one,
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if you have autoimmune, yes, give it 60, 90 days and then readdress.
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But for others, it's a great way to reset if you want to do it once a quarter.
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Or seasonally. I'm a big fan of eating seasonally when things are in season
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naturally, not because we've hauled
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it around the world, but because it's naturally available at this time.
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I think it's a great sort of concept to bring in.
33:35
Yes. Oh, my goodness. You have been so helpful. Thank you.
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So if somebody wants to learn more or work with you so they can do like,
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you know, a trial or a run of carnivore, what is the best way for them to connect
33:47
with you? How can they find you? Awesome.
33:50
So I have a link tree. I think that's the best I'll supply if you want to put it in the show notes.
33:54
That way it has, I'm on Facebook where we connected just under Shannon Davis.
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I am on LinkedIn under Shannon Davis.
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I'm on, don't judge, but I'm on TikTok.
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Okay. I'm not an actress y'all. So don't be harsh, but I'm on TikTok under SL Davis 6580.
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And that's also where I'm at on Instagram and X. So I'm on all of them, some more than others.
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But I mean, I'm old school. I'll give y'all my phone number.
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I'm just super easy, my email and phone number. But I just put everything inside
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a link tree and it just gives you can pick and choose however you want to connect with me.
34:36
Nice. I'll definitely put that in the show notes. Thank you very much. Thank you.
34:39
Thank Thank you. Thank you. This has been so very helpful for me,
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and I'm sure it's been helpful for everybody who's listening.
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So everybody who's listening, thank you for joining.
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Come back next week for another episode of Health with Hashimoto's,
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and I'll see you then. This podcast is for informational and educational purposes only.
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Please discuss any concerns and plans with your trusted healthcare professional.
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If you found this episode helpful, will you please share it with a friend?
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I'll see you next week on the Health with Hashimoto's podcast.
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Music.