Latest / Worldview Matters With David Fiorazo / Dr. Erwin Lutzer: 'The Eclipse Of God,’ Search For A More Tolerant, Inclusive Deity

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Dr. Erwin Lutzer: 'The Eclipse Of God,’ Search For A More Tolerant, Inclusive Deity · Worldview Matters With David Fiorazo

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  Welcome to World View Matters, discussing controversial issues, discerning current events,
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  defending biblical Christianity.
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  No topic, off limits.
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  And now, here's your host, David Fierazzo.
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  Hello, friends.
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  Thank you so much for tuning in for sharing the podcast.
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  God bless you, brothers and sisters in Christ.
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  I've got a special treat for you today.
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  We've got Dr. Urban Lootser on the program.
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  And there's a phenomenal new book out called The Eclipse of God.
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  You guys are going to love this.
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  We're going to dive into it in a minute.
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  But I just want to quote some of the information that was sent to me on the book.
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  Now he encourages Christians to be faithful in the midst of the irrational and absurd.
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  And that's what we're seeing worldwide, particularly in our culture.
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  And we're going to have him respond to that.
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  He encourages believers.
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  And he says America is experiencing a near total eclipse.
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  We see the increase in violence, treachery, the abuse of the law, depravity, and more.
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  He says darkness is being protected and normalized while light is being vilified and criminalized.
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  And the eclipse of God, the book, is not just a warning to the church, by the way,
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  and to be faithful stewards.
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  It's a call to recognize the danger we face when we tinker with transcendent morality
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  given to us by our creator.
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  And finally, Urban Lootser says when the rule of law is replaced by the quest for power,
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  freedom ends.
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  And then he asks, are we ready?
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  Well, I want to bring him in now.
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  Dr. Urban Lootser is pastor emeritus of the Moody Church where he served as the senior
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  pastor for 36 years.
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  He is featured speaker and and and podcasters authored some amazing books, including one
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  of them.
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  I talked to him about a few years ago.
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  We will not be silenced.
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  And a couple of years ago, he wrote no reason to hide and many others.
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  But he has a radio program called running to win.
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  It's a daily Bible teaching broadcast.
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  And that's on over a thousand outlets in the US and across more than 50 countries in
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  seven languages.
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  Richard Lootser also is a prolific author.
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  He's written 70 books more than 70 now.
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  And the one we're going to talk about today is called the Eclipse of God.
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  Urban Lootser, thank you so much for taking the time to be in world view matters.
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  Good to see you.
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  Thank you so much, David.
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  And the book that you referenced, the Eclipse of God, just came out recently.
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  So it certainly is my most recent book.
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  And let's talk about the idea of an eclipse.
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  Sure.
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  When there is an eclipse of the sun, the moon comes between the sun and the earth.
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  It doesn't affect the sun.
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  It shines as brightly as ever.
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  But I'm saying in the book that the moon of secularism has brought us into darkness.
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  And we have to understand the darkness and your intro was right on when you said we
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  are fighting in an irrational world.
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  And the reason for that is because we have turned our back on God, the creator.
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  And of course, because we've done that, we are rebelling against the created order.
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  But David, if I might just take a moment to explain to people, what I do in the book
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  is I show that the shadows of Europe have come to the United States.
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  That's kind of the opening.
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  Hitchie, who died in the year 1900, proclaimed the death of God.
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  And he said, do we not hear the noise of the gravediggers who have buried God?
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  And so I asked myself the question, who might he be referring to?
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  Karl Marx, who attacked God as ruler, Darwin, who attacked God as creator, Freud, who attacked
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  God as lawgiver.
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  I want to pause just a moment and comment on Darwin and then tell you about how important
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  this is, not only for the church in Europe, it was important, but also for us.
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  But Darwin, in the book, I quote him as saying that the baboon is our grandfather.
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  David, if the baboon is our grandfather, we have no argument against abortion, against
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  infanticide, euthanasia.
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  We do that with animals.
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  And I point out how the animal rights movement wants to elevate animals to the level of humans,
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  but they actually bring humans down to the level of animals.
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  And then you have Freud with his pleasure, principle of sexuality, believe that there
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  should be no restrictions, and this opens the door also to pedophilia.
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  Now Nietzsche proclaimed the death of God, and then very quickly, he proclaimed that
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  the cathedrals of Europe have become the tombs of God.
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  Go throughout Europe.
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  You find that many of the cathedrals are libraries and mosques and go to where Bunyan was in
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  England, Bedford, that cathedral is a nightclub.
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  His prediction came to pass.
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  The question is what we learn from it, and I discuss those things in the book and then
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  one other thing, and then I'm going to get to all of your questions.
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  There was an article in the economist some time ago that says God is becoming as liberal
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  as we are.
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  As a matter of fact, the online version was nearer my God to me.
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  So I have a chapter by that title, emphasizing the fact that we have manufactured in America
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  and in the West generally our own ideas of God.
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  We have domesticated him.
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  We now have a God that we can control.
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  And so I go into that.
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  And then the article also says, nobody believes in the mighty almighty of the Old Testament.
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  The God who smote the Egyptians, the God who smoked Sodom and Gomorrah.
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  So I have a chapter on the Old Testament.
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  The stoning of people, the killing of the Canaanites, the flood.
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  And then one of the longest chapters is God more tolerant than he used to be.
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  How do we manage the fact that the New Testament is entirely different?
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  Is it safer to sin under grace than it was under law?
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  And of course I show that God has not changed.
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  And then after that the rest of the book is as you properly described showing that God
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  is necessary for truth for law.
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  And the last chapter which should raise some eyebrows is returning to the God of wrath
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  and grace, not the God of unconditional love.
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  So there you have the 30 mile high, 30 foot high summary of the book, the Eclipse of God.
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  Oh phenomenal.
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  I was going to ask you specifically about a few of those chapters, but I want to quote you
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  from the book and I want to emphasize when you shared the importance of the sun still
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  shining even though there's an eclipse.
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  That's a very important point.
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  You say the sun still shines behind the eclipse and not even a determined secular world
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  can blot out the witness of God's servants who are dedicated to share the light.
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  Dr. Luther, that's an important point because a lot of believers are well intentioned.
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  They want to make an impact.
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  They want to be salt and light, but they get discouraged and overwhelmed because of
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  the darkness.
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  Could you speak to them and just encourage them in the midst of what we're seeing today?
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  I'd be glad to, as a matter of fact, as you well know, we're living in a country that
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  is very polarized politically, racially and in other ways.
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  So let me speak to the moment that we find ourselves in.
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  And this is my encouragement and I point this out in the book.
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  When Isaiah went into the temple, it says, in the year that King Uzziah died, I saw the
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  Lord, high and lifted up and his train filled the temple.
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  What God was saying to Isaiah is this, Uzziah is dead.
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  He was a relatively good King.
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  He rained for 52 years.
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  So the throne of Israel is empty.
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  But Isaiah, I want you to know that the throne in heaven is well occupied.
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  Thank you very much.
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  And when we read the news and we hear the accusations back and forth politically and
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  in every other way, I want to urge believers to look behind the headlines and know that
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  God still does rule.
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  God still does rule.
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  He is King.
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  He is Lord.
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  He sets up leaders.
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  He takes others down.
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  Sometimes he gives us leaders that are better than we deserve.
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  Sometimes he gives us leaders that are worse than we deserve.
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  And sometimes he gives us exactly what we deserve.
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  But God is still God.
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  He's not abandon his people.
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  And the question I tried to deal within the book is, what does it look like to be
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  faithful to God in the midst of our eclipse?
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  The subtitle of the book, by the way, friends, and I didn't give the website, forgive me,
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  moodymedia.org.
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  You can go to moodymedia.org or the book is obviously available on Amazon and it just
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  is days out.
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  So brand new.
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  I can literally say hot off the presses for this book.
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  But the subtitle, our nation's disastrous search for a more inclusive deity and what
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  we must do about it.
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  So Dr. Luther, with that, I want to just talk about inclusivity and talk about what you
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  mentioned, one of the chapters in on page 127, chapter six is called, is God more tolerant
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  than he used to be?
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  Because it seems that we, not we Bible-believing Christians, but our nation's secular society
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  has redefined tolerance and inclusivity.
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  Would you care to speak to that, please?
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  I'd be glad to speak to it.
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  First of all, you mentioned how the book can be purchased.
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  And also, if people go to eclips of God, without the word the, just eclips of God, there's
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  a special website and that goes to our media ministry.
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  So I want to highlight that.
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  But also, of course, as you mentioned, Amazon, Christianbook.com and other places.
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  And I believe so deeply that this message is needed.
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  All right.
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  Let's pick that up.
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  Is God more tolerant than he used to be?
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  The Old Testament you have the killing of the Canaanites, which I deal with in the previous
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  chapter, you have stoning.
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  How do we manage the fact that in the New Testament, things are very different?
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  Well, in the New Testament, we don't have a theocracy.
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  And the church, instead of being a nation localized within certain borders, the church
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  exists throughout the world.
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  It is a transnational community.
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  So we do not have the same responsibilities as they had in the Old Testament.
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  And God administers things differently today.
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  And what the church should be doing is disciplining people for the infractions that were considered
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  important in the Old Testament.
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  And one thing I want to say, there were civil laws in the Old Testament that have absolutely
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  no application today.
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  All of the ceremonial laws were fulfilled in Christ.
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  But here's what I want everyone to hear with clarity.
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  The Bible says in the Book of Hebrews, if people were found guilty under Moses and were
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  worthy of being stoned with two or three witnesses of how much greater punishment do you
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  think will be found worthy, those who have trampled underfoot the blood of Christ.
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  What the New Testament teaches is this, that the greater the grace, the greater the responsibility,
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  this is chilling.
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  When you read the book of revelations and the judgment that is to come, when you read
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  that book of revelation, what you discover is the judgments that are coming upon this
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  earth are far worse than anything in the Old Testament.
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  God has not become more tolerant.
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  He's dealing with things differently today.
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  There's a different way to administer what he is doing through the church, but he is the
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  Lord and he changes not.
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  And as I emphasize in the book what we have done is we have paired God down to reasonable
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  proportions.
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  We have domesticated him.
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  We've created our own vision of God.
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  You know, David, people today don't mind saying they believe in God just as long as they
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  are God.
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  That's right.
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  They're perfectly comfortable with saying that.
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  And that's why in the previous chapter where I discuss nearer my God to me, I talk about
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  the idea of, oh, I'm spiritual, but I'm not religious.
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  I don't believe in anything specific, but I'm spiritual.
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  This utterly is nonsense.
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  You know, there's a book.
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  There's a verse in Isaiah that just comes to mind now.
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  I quoted in the book in which Isaiah said that false religions are like somebody who's
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  hungry.
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  He goes to sleep, dreams he is eating, but wakes up hungry still is like somebody who is
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  thirsty.
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  He goes to bed dreaming that he is drinking and then he wakes up and he is thirsty still.
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  All of this nonsense that we have today about spirituality becomes the idea that your
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  consciousness is really God.
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  And God becomes whatever you want him to be, you can ignore him, you can use him, but
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  he is at your disposal and essentially at your control.
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  And you don't have to deal with sin, you just need help.
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  You don't need redemption.
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  So that's the God of popular culture.
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  And I'll tell you this, read the New Testament, read the book of Revelation, and it gives
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  you chills.
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  Our God is a consuming fire and terrifying.
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  Amen.
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  And we unfortunately, especially in America, we are creating God's inner own image because
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  we want to pursue pleasure and happiness rather than holiness.
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  And we've got to take a brief pause with Dr. Irwin Luther in the book is called the Eclipse
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  of God.
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  We will be right back on World View Matters.
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  Today's show is brought to you by Harbinger's Daily, the world news biblically understood.
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• 15:24
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• 15:28
  and email worldviewmattersatfpeusa.org, the website worldviewmatters.tv.
• 15:37
  Before we go back into the Eclipse of God, I want to mention one of Dr. Luther's previous
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  books.
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  I have this is phenomenal.
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  We will not be silenced.
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  I had the pleasure of speaking with him a few years ago on this book.
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  This is where we're at today, friends.
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  We cannot afford as believers in Christ to be silent and to be quiet in this culture
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  where people need to hear the truth and they need to hear the whole gospel.
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  So I'm off my soapbox now back to our guest, Dr. Irwin Luther.
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  We talked a little bit about how we are in a very interesting culture and time today
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  where there's irrationality where evil is being called good, good is called evil.
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  You can be whatever gender you want to be and it's just irrational.
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  And you say in the book, this is a battle that reason, science and biology cannot win.
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  Explain further, please.
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  Well, the reason that we can't win the war that way is because at root it's rebellion
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  against God.
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  You know, Al Mola wrote the intro to my book and he said it was a direct hit because
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  at the end of the day, all of our problems are theological.
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  But you know, David, you raised something else that I want to get to and that is the
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  chapter that I have on truth, truth or truthiness speaking the truth in an age of lies.
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  What parents need to do is to understand this.
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  You send your child to university or to college.
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  Oftentimes they come back and they think differently than you do.
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  Boy, they sure do.
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  What has happened?
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  It used to be before men could have babies.
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  It used to be that people believe that truth was objective.
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  It existed outside of the mind.
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  It was something to be sought today because of the exaltation of man and the fact that
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  we believe that we are gods because of that that has now moved inside of us.
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  So truth exists within us.
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  And when you read history, for example, what you're looking for is not truth per se.
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  You're looking for higher art keys.
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  You are reading these texts as Karl Marx said we should looking for opportunities to maintain
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  power.
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  So the words of the text no longer have ultimate authority because they have no stable
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  meaning.
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  It is within you.
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  As a matter of fact, I quote a teacher's manual in which it says no student should ever
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  be told that he is wrong because it might damage his self esteem.
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  So it gives all of these options and says what you must do is if he says something wrong,
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  say, why, I never thought of that before or that's an idea.
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  Let's hang on to that.
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  And then about 12 other possibilities because after all history has become therapy.
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  So your child comes back from college and sees everything through his viewpoint.
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  And that that becomes the truth he has his truth and you have your truth.
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  And that's the way we are one other thing I have to throw out.
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  And that is this that in the book, I quote a university that has speech codes.
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  They say don't use the word field.
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  Don't use the word America.
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  Don't use the word illegal because after all these are a pejorative.
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  Now everyone listening David has to take a deep breath.
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  What is going on there?
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  What's going on is this it is not intended to elevate the debate.
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  It's intended to silence the debate.
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  You have no idea what's appropriate.
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  When you go into a restaurant and still ask for a menu.
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  Or is that a concession to masculine toxicity?
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  So people have no idea.
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  And so most college students end up self censoring themselves.
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  And if they hear something that they don't agree with, they have to retreat to a safe place
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  to lick the wounds that they're unappreciated.
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  They're unappreciated, what shall we say, oppression.
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  So that's the reason that they think differently.
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  Truth is not exclusive and I point out in the book obviously it is.
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  When Jesus said I am the way the truth and the life, he was shutting out all other options.
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  Two plus two is equal to four.
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  And there's only one right answer to that.
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  And not an almost an infinite number of wrong answers.
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  So this idea that we have inclusive truth ends up being irrational and nonsense.
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  That's why I emphasize in the book the need for us to seek God.
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  This is a spiritual battle that can't just be won by rationality because we are irrational.
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  And every chapter in my book has a paragraph it ends with a paragraph of dependence upon
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  God and then an action step.
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  So in the book that we're talking about the eclipse of God, my desire is to help people
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  to see what's happening to a culture during this very serious eclipse of God.
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  I was going to thank you for putting those action steps in there at the end of each chapter
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  very helpful.
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  Before we run out of time I've got to get back to something you talk about called the
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  great evangelical compromise regarding creation.
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  Obviously if we the church don't get Genesis right and creation right and God's word
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  is not inerrant and inspired, we're in a lot of trouble then go ahead and share more.
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  David I can't believe this but you would be surprised that the number of professors even
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  in so-called evangelical schools that deny the existence of Adam and Eve as they are
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  described in the Bible and I name one or two of those scholars and I very hesitant to
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  name people because they are believers they love God.
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  But the idea is that we came up through the animal world through evolution and then there
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  were homo sapiens and God somehow created within them in his own image.
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  But they want to be able to unite the evolutionary theory with humanity.
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  But I point out in the book this is so heartbreaking.
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  Once you give up Adam and Eve you give up the contrast that Paul makes in Romans chapter
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  five between Adam and Christ all that begins to fall apart.
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  The whole idea of us being an Adam and here's the most concerning thing.
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  There is no fall into sin.
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  Everything just evolved.
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  There is no fall.
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  So what does that do to sin?
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  What does that do to redemption?
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  And yet I urge you parents who have children in evangelical schools, even Christian schools
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  check to see whether they have professors who deny the existence of Adam and Eve as
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  they are in the Bible.
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  Now they will say, well I believe in Adam and Eve but not the Adam and Eve of the Bible.
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  And you have to check that out because we're living it at a time when I hear here's the
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  point that I make.
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  Isn't it interesting that people like that take archaeology and paleology literally the
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  Bible literally.
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  So where does that lead us?
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  And so parents, please check that out.
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  You might be surprised.
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  I saw a list of 60 supposed evangelicals who now deny the existence of Adam and Eve
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  as found in the scriptures.
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  Wow.
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  Wow.
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  Sad.
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  And we know over the decades our even our seminaries have changed and these are some of
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  the young pastors coming out of those seminaries.
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  And we can't say they have a true biblical worldview but we've got to move on.
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  This may be the last question, Dr. Luther in your book page 265.
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  You say until we see hell as it is, we cannot appreciate grace as it is.
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  And that is in the chapter you mentioned returning to the God of wrath and grace, not unconditional
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  love.
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  And unfortunately we hear a lot of the one side on God is love of course but God is also
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  truth and I'd love for you to speak to that before we let you go.
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  So God loves the world, John 316 and you can tell people God loves you but think of all
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  of the judgments against the wicked.
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  It is not an unconditional love.
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  Now for those who are saved, it is an unconditional love based on John 17.
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  But this whole idea that God loves me unconditionally, which means that I'm sleeping with my
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  girlfriend but it doesn't matter because he accepts what I do unconditionally.
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  That one person said well accepting me unconditionally is his job.
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  So in evangelicalism today you have an over emphasis on the love of God, not that you
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  can overemphasize it except that it is preached and it is not balanced with the awesome judgment
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  of God.
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  And I have to say this from my heart, that is one of the most powerful chapters I have
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  ever written to bring people to repentance.
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  And grace is not sweet until sin is bitter.
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  And until we see what sin is leading to and the eventual judgment of hell which people
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  don't talk about, that's why I urge people to cleave to Christ and believe on him because
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  he saves us from the wrath to come.
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  When was the last time you heard a sermon on the wrath of God?
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  It's time that we hear some of those sermons.
• 26:00
  It's been a while.
• 26:01
  It's sad.
• 26:02
  And I think maybe Dr. Luther, some people have good intentions and I mean church leaders
• 26:06
  thinking we're going to attract the world by softening it and kind of watering it down
• 26:11
  and softening the wrath of God.
• 26:13
  But you cannot do that.
• 26:15
  That's just part of who he is and part of what the word of God teaches.
• 26:18
  And they get away from the whole council of God, but I know I'm preaching to the choir
• 26:21
  on that one.
• 26:22
  So friends, you can go to moodymedia.org.
• 26:26
  You can go to Amazon and so many other places.
• 26:29
  This will be likely another bestseller.
• 26:31
  Dr. Litzer, I just thank you so much for your ministry of all these years.
• 26:35
  Your clear voice speaking to this generation at this time.
• 26:39
  I know it's another very needed and relevant book with an important message for people,
• 26:45
  believers and non-believers need to read this.
• 26:47
  So thank you so much.
• 26:48
  Anything else you'd like to share before we let you go, sir?
• 26:52
  Simply this, remember there are two doctrines that destroy the church.
• 26:57
  One is the essential goodness of humanity and the other is the endless tolerance of a
• 27:03
  non-judgmental God.
• 27:06
  Make sure that we have a right view of God so that we might have a right view of grace.
• 27:12
  Excellent point.
• 27:13
  Wow.
• 27:14
  That's something to think about.
• 27:15
  Thank you for leaving us with that.
• 27:16
  Dr. Irwin Litzer, God bless you, sir.
• 27:18
  We appreciate your time.
• 27:20
  Thank you so much, David.
• 27:21
  You're most welcome.
• 27:22
  All right, guys, and these books, I encourage you to get them and share them.
• 27:28
  These messages need to get out, friends.
• 27:30
  The church needs to be restrained and sometimes in some cases we need some repentance in the
• 27:35
  church.
• 27:37
  Let's come back together.
• 27:38
  Let's be strong and let's speak to this generation that is hungry for truth and the gospel.
• 27:43
  And thank you for watching and for sharing the podcast.
• 27:45
  God bless you and as always, keep speaking the truth about things that matter.