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He Managed $8 Million in Ads—Here's What Most Businesses Get Wrong · Plan Like A Boss | Planning, Productivity, and Strategy for Entrepreneurs

• 0:25
  SPEAKER_01: If your business just relies on ads, you don't really have a strong business.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome back to Plan Like a Boss.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_01: I'm your host, Tanya Lawson, and today I'm here with Jeremy Yang.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_01: He's an online ad specialist and the founder of Digital Goliath, a Google and meta-ads agency based in Sydney, Australia, that helps established businesses scale without the chaos.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_01: As Jeremy transitioned into business, he found organic marketing to be frustratingly slow.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_01: This inspired his pivot to paid advertising.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_01: And today, with over 16,000 hours of experience in the online ads niche, he has successfully managed over 8 million in ad spend and specializes in helping small business owners turn online advertising into a profitable, reliable pillar of their business.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome, Jeremy.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_01: I'm so happy to have you here.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_00: It's great to be here.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_00: That was nice chatting.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_01: Why don't you start by telling us your story?
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_01: How did you get into paid ads?
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_00: I got into paid ads, like you say, was uh uh born out of impatience, you know.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_00: So I was a um uh trades for about 12 years, trades in Australia is like you work hands-on.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_00: I was on roofs doing uh satellites and antennas for a long time.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_00: And um when I moved out of that, I went back to university because I know you you've had a huge academic academic career as well.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_00: So I went back to university because I never never finished high school, so I wanted to do it.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um so the thing that resonated, uh, well, what what I did best thing was marketing.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_00: And when I came out of uh a business degree, major majoring in marketing, um I was bounced around like internships and jobs and everything in marketing was really, really slow to take foothold um until somebody told me that you know if you want something fast, you have to go ads.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_00: I'd never even heard of it, I didn't know what it was at the time.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_00: And then I got that I got into it, I got the right mentor who helped me.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_00: Uh well, she had a business at the time that was specializing in ads.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and then um kind of yeah, fell in love with it.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_00: And then uh when I took over that business when I didn't take over where she helped me set up my own business um with the first with the first few clients, yeah, that's how I really got into it.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_00: And it's been that was 2009, so it's been about seven years.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_01: That's great.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_01: And I I love how you kind of fell into it as you transitioned through those pivots, and I think that's where a lot of us start out.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_01: 100%, yeah.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_01: So we are talking about ads today, and I know that a lot of solopreneurs rely heavily on organic marketing, frankly, because they're afraid they're going to waste money on ads.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_01: Now, I know that you originally moved into the paid ad space, as you said, because organic growth was just too slow and you were impatient with it.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_01: So, for my listeners out there who are exhausted from constantly creating social media content, how do they know when their business is actually ready to take the leap into paid ads?
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_00: But that's an easy one.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um, what they're looking for is uh all the other boxes checked off.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_00: Like, do they have a destination for the ads to go to?
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_00: How are their sales skills?
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_00: How are their offers?
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_00: I know how you feel about offers and how people like coaches will always come in and they create these, you know, long, long funnels and multi-steps.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um if something's already running pretty smoothly, then you can accelerate.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_00: You can bring the timeline forward, right?
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_00: To that's when you start using ads.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_00: But if you are not there and you're just impatient, um you you might risk a lot of money.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_00: And that's where things really go wrong, because you start listening to the wrong advice and the wrong reasons for doing ads.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_00: But if you have like if you have do you have a lot of like uh clients around membership and arts kind of thing, great niche to be trying it.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_00: Because when it comes to ads, especially for your audience, mostly it's gonna be meta ads because of the creative, because uh how well they present on camera, a lot of talking, right?
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_00: So they them they their personality is gonna really shine through and it's gonna be great for ads.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think that answers your question.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so so what you're saying is is kind of like in the construction business where you are installing things, you want to start with a really strong foundation.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_01: And without that strong foundation, you're you're kind of gambling a bit.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you're gambling a bit, and also the with how quickly ads are changing nowadays, I think the organic is is um gonna take even longer because platforms are starting to favoring ads more and more over the years.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_00: Because that's how they generate the revenue, right?
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_00: Of course they're making money.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_00: They're making a lot more money, so they they are kind of like uh optimizing for the ads a lot more now to get your reach instead of allowing you to leverage their platform for organic reach.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_01: You are not wrong, because I keep seeing the same ads over and over again.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_01: Now you mentioned meta.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_01: So tell us the difference.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_01: What's really the difference between meta ads and Google ads?
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_00: It's a huge difference.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_00: So that's a great question.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_00: Meta ads, you want something that is uh a little bit more novel.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, if your audience has something that's a little bit more novel, if they're good on video, you're gonna want them to be tackling meta ads for their product or service, right?
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_00: So there's certain niches like coaches, like music, uh memberships that they're really well on meta ads and doesn't exist on Google ads.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_00: Because Google is really high intentional.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_00: So the person has to literally go and try and find what it is that they're looking for.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_00: So if they have keywords that are a bit like off piece, like a little bit on the side, then it's good because it's not gonna be uh ambiguous.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_00: So these are a lot better on Google when people are searching for you.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_00: Whereas meta ads, it's more like they they're happy to be distracted, they're happy to be entertained, they want the like the novelty factor to kick in.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_00: Gotcha.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_01: So what I'm hearing are the meta ads are gonna be a little more entertaining and catch your attention that way.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_01: And then the Google ads are maybe a little more SEO-driven, focused on those main keywords.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, SEO driven and also uh cost a lot more.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_00: Gotcha.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_01: So you've done any Google ads.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_01: I've only done meta.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_00: Very scary.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_00: So if you were gonna do Google ads, what would you what do you think people will search for to find you?
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_01: That's a good question.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_00: Like you would just say it was for your coaching business side of things.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_00: It'd be very hard.
• 7:10
  unknown: Right.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_00: So you go.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, because those those main keywords would be something like how to make money online or how to create a digital course.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_01: And those are pretty broad.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_00: Very broad and very ambiguous, right?
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_00: So the two examples you gave.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so the first one they'd be looking at a sea of 30, 40 different, you know, people that that could be suitable for them, right?
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_00: And and the second one is like the you'd be probably paying$40 a click.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_00: So how do you survive, right?
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_00: Like commercial cleaners in Sydney's, for example, that word, commercial cleaners, office cleaners, that's like$40 to$80 a click.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_00: So whereas, you know, in Meta, someone like you who's in front of the camera, right, who has a different personality to the other 39 people someone can resonate with, if you can showcase that, you can get a click for$1.50 because of the auction system, right?
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_00: Now, the other audience probably more serious because they, you know, went out of their way to search for it.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_00: So that you could argue that$40 a click was more of a lot more valuable, right?
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_00: But you know, you want to be more uh you you want to be like showing up more.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_00: So it's that much more benefit being on meta for you.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_01: Gotcha.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_01: That makes total sense.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_01: That takes m makes total sense.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, the Facebook, not the Facebook, the Google ads, they could be more targeted that way, but depending on the cost of your offer,$40 a click could be really eating into your profits.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_00: So I have calculators on my website actually, could because of these conversations that we're always having with prospects, with people who are thinking about doing it.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_00: So instead of just waving my hands in the air and trying to articulate the numbers and try to explain to them.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_00: So I ended up creating calculators.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_00: They're free.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_00: They're free for anyone, right?
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_00: They're free.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_00: I I use it where doing my cause with them.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_00: And I go, if you only have a thousand dollars a month, right?
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_00: And you say, I want, you know, uh, X number of leads, like, what do you need to do?
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_00: And these calculators kind of work it out for them.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, that's brilliant.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_00: And with the AOV as well.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_01: Everybody needs to go check that out.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_01: I will make sure to link that in the show notes.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, they'll love it.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_01: You've worked with a wide variety of individuals in your agency.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_01: What are some of the biggest mistakes you see smaller businesses like coaches or course creators make when it comes to ads?
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_00: I think they um they're not figuring out the math behind it before they start doing ads.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's that's one of them.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that there are um few, there are people and business coaches and et cetera, who are on the fence about ads.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_00: Like they don't like them, they don't like seeing them, right?
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_00: But they kind of use it, they think, oh, maybe we should try using as a tool to make money or whatever, right?
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_00: Which is fine, which is okay.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_00: But like their heart's not in it.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_00: So, do you know what I mean?
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_00: Like they're they got this underlying feeling that doesn't align with their business, right?
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_00: And um when it comes to ads, uh they have to be a little bit more performative when they're making the videos.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_00: So they have to turn it up a bit, and not everyone likes that.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_00: And I'll tell you something that someone really smart told me after they they've done video shooting for a long time.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_00: They said that on the camera, you know how they say on the camera adds like 10 pounds or whatever to you to you?
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_00: The camera scales your performative self down back to normal.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_00: So if you just act normal and then do you get on camera, you look really dull and boring and slow.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_00: So when you hype yourself up a little bit, act a little bit more like a clown, that when you watch back on camera, it looks normal, looks like a normal ad.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_00: Look, looks like a normal person, it doesn't make you look crazy.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_01: Gotcha.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I didn't know that.
• 11:07
  unknown: Yeah.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, from a theater aspect, that's you're performing to the people in the back row and not the people in the front row.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, so that's crazy.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't that I never thought about it that way.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_00: What do you think?
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_00: Do you think it's relevant?
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's relevant because I have a YouTube channel and I know that when I am delivering to camera on YouTube or on this podcast, I'm definitely a lot more dynamic than I am just having a conversation with an individual.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, for sure.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_00: So I think that's one of the things that people gotta be be prepared for.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_00: They gotta turn it up a bit.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um, yeah, I think I think that I think there's um a lot of things that you are coaching them as well, which is a lack of an offer sometimes.
• 11:46
  unknown: Yes.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_00: Which, yeah, with lack of an offer.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_00: And I think um the idea that once you hire ads manager, they like delegate the whole task, they're not involved anymore, which is also not true.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_00: The best clients are actually meeting me once a month, they have input, they're talking about stuff.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's gonna be a huge thing.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_01: I love that you bring that up because I think that is a misconception.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I'm gonna hire somebody else to do it.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_01: That way I don't have to worry about it anymore.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_01: But when you stop worrying about your business, that's when your business is gonna start having issues.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, big time.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_00: I think they have to be on top of it somewhat, yeah.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_01: Now, I know a lot of small businesses, so I'm thinking solopreneurs or people with a team of only two or three, they don't have huge budgets.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_01: So how can they be successful with ads?
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_01: And what is a reasonable amount of ad spend?
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_01: So I know in in the US, I know you're in Australia, yeah, the dollar is just a little bit different.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_01: And I you see people online saying you can make money with five dollars a day in ads.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_01: And then the ad specialist that I worked with, she's like, you need to be spending a minimum of$500 a week if you want to see any sort of of turnover.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_01: So and and then I see people saying$1,000 a week.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_01: So with such a wide array of amounts, what should people really expect?
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_01: And how do they win with less money?
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so that's a great question.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I think about this a lot.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_00: I think that there's a certain amount of money that you have to be spending before you hire an ads manager.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_00: And that figure is going to be about$1,000 a week.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so ads manager like myself, who charges about$770 to$9.90 a month, USD, to manage your ads, right?
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of conversations, a lot of you know, back and forth, meetings, like in-person meetings, not automation, right?
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_00: In-person meetings, talking about stuff, going over stuff.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_00: Because if you spend less than the thousand dollars a week, right, which is about three, four thousand dollars a month, and then you add my fee on top of it, there's no way you can win.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_00: Because dollar averaging goes down.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_00: Just say imagine you spend a thousand dollars a month, right?
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_00: And you pay me a thousand dollars a month to help manage it, your lead cost just doubled.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_00: Right, which is like that's that's gone.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_00: Like your math doesn't make sense anymore.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_00: But if you make if you spend ten thousand dollars a month on ads, right, and I still manage it for a thousand, the management costs one-tenth of your ad spend.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_00: And you have experts watching your ads all the time and advising you and using the latest tactics, making sure everything's on track.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_00: So that's so to me, you can spend$1,000 a month, but then you have to DIY.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_00: You must, you must DIY.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_00: You must learn how to do it through one of those memberships.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_00: I can give you people that I work with.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_00: You have to DRY, learn it yourself, calm down, slow down, and then when you scale up to$3,000,$4,000 a month, then you go hire a manager.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_01: That makes total sense.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_01: And from my experience, to anybody out there listening, thinking$1,000 a week, we're talking$30,000 a month plus your fee.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_00: You have to remember$4,000 a month,$1,000 uh a week.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_01: I thought you meant a thousand a day.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_00: And that's a thousand a week, thousand a week.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_00: No, it's doable.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_00: It's doable.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_00: You can do it, it can be done, can be done.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_01: So even that$4,000 a week or$4,000 a month plus your fee, um, you have to remember you're making a lot of that money back in ad spend.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_01: Because if you're not, yeah, then something's wrong with your offer and and something's wrong with whatever agency you're working with.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_00: For sure.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_00: You you'll know in four to six weeks.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_00: So it's not forever.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_00: So in four to six weeks, you should be able to recoup the money.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_00: You should be making some mistakes, and then by the time you do your four to six weeks, you should be able to at least break it even.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_00: With a lot of learnings about your own business, about your own account, about your own sales process.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_00: Because you would have had calls coming in about that.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_00: Then you will go, oh, okay, that person, we lost them when I said this, right?
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_00: Or, you know, that that I kind of rushed that, or I kind of overexplained myself there, and you kind of look disinterested and he left.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_00: So these things don't happen when you are only working with referrals because they come out with their wallets out.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_00: Like they're they're ready to buy from you.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_00: You can say anything you want.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_00: But what they don't realize is that the skeptic skepticism of when someone comes in from ads.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_00: That's a mixed biggest misconception.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_00: And going by your previous point about um like things going wrong, I think that people, when they start ads, they looked at they look at it not as a pillar, but as the whole thing.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_00: Like we're doing ads now, this is our intake.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_00: No, no, no.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_00: Ads, when you start off, it's in the background.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_00: You don't let it become the small part, let it let it always be a pillar in your business, but never be the business.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_00: Because ads accounts shut down, you know, things stop working, algorithms change, and you if your business just relies on ads, you don't really have a strong business.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_00: Because it's all rented.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_00: It's all rented, it's all rented space.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_00: There's nothing foundational.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_01: I totally agree.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_01: One of one of the foundational things that I teach my clients is you don't need to keep your eggs in one basket.
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_01: You need to have multiple different income streams coming into your business.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_01: That way, if something happens and an algorithm changes and you lose one of them, then you have others to keep the boat you know from sinking.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_00: 100%.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_00: While you're fixing this one, while you're figuring out this new offer, or there's a competitor that comes like AOI came.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_00: Do you know what I mean?
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_00: How much things that would have changed?
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_00: So you had you yeah, definitely 100% agree with you.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_00: Definitely got something else floating around while that's happening.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_01: Well, what do you recommend for a solo entrepreneur or a business with a small team to do to start using ads?
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_00: Get really good at face-to-camera videos.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_00: Because bigger businesses or other businesses, they can't emulate that.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_00: Because that's you.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_00: Because you're gonna be the head of the situation, right?
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_00: So if you're you're shying away from that, that means you're resorting back to image ads, which can be easily duped, duplicated, copied with a bit of uh, you know, overlay text.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_00: But face-to-camera videos, when you're good at that, it's like you are um, it's like it's it's uh it's a skill that you're never gonna lose.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_00: So anytime you have something interesting to say, so the so the easiest uh way to get someone into your uh ecosystem is using ads like uh what they call teach and pitch.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_00: So you teach for about 30 seconds and use 15 seconds to pitch.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_00: So hey, if you want to learn more, you know, come in, come on the website.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_00: We've got a webinar, we have something on the website for you that like the lead magnet game.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_00: So to get people there, you need face-to-camera videos.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_01: So I I love that, and and that was one of the things that I always went back and forth with.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_01: Do I do a video ad?
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_01: Do I do just a graphic ad?
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_01: What do I do?
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um now you mentioned teach to pitch and to send them to a webinar.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_01: Do you recommend what works better with ads?
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_01: Sending your audience to a free product or sending them to a paid offer?
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_00: Paid offer.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_01: Paid offer.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_00: So the first question for you when I look at you and the way you speak and your energy, it's definitely gonna be video for you.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_00: Because what what people want, like in the ads game, in the coaching space, there's a lot of uh like bro science and macho energy and alpha kind of thing.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_00: It's like how much money you're making and all of that, right?
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_00: So you are a lot more karma than that, right?
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_00: So when people are scrolling past those and they see you, they go, they can see the difference.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_00: They say, oh, okay.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_00: You know, she's she's a little bit different, she's purpose-driven, blah, blah.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_00: And then they might go, oh, cool, let me just have a look at what else she's got to say.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_00: Because all the job of the ad isn't to convince them there, it's to get them to the next stage.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_01: That is so interesting that you say that.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_01: Because I get out there and I look and I've done a lot of research with my YouTube channel, and I'm one of the few women online talking about this stuff.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you're right.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_01: There are a lot of bros out there doing it.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm not just a woman, I'm a middle-aged woman.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_01: I am 48 years old and proud to admit admit that.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_01: I've been in the biz for a long time.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_00: So you were being around before, ads was a thing with pixels and all that before it was a thing.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_00: So you saw the whole spectrum of people coming in, the Wawa West of Adsworld.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_01: I watched the whole business change.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_01: I I remember being so excited when I was a young entrepreneur.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_01: I was teaching music lessons for a living, which I I still do.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_01: I love teaching music lessons, but I had a palm pilot with a little stylist, and I had a spreadsheet on it that I could track all of my income.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_01: And I was a big early adopter back then, and I just laugh now at that technology that I was using.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, amazing.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I couldn't believe it.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_00: Because I I came in early like about 10 years ago when I started doing it.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um, that was, I'll tell you something though, um, I don't know how relevant this is to your audience.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_00: Back then, when I was learning it, people were complaining about how costly ads were.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_00: And they had no idea how cheap it was.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_00: It's 10 times now, and the same businesses are still running ads.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_00: Like, said, bro, if you can run ads now and still survive, you should have just multiplied like everything back then.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_00: You know, they were like, oh my gosh, look at this cost, you know, 25 cents a click.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_00: They're paying$2.50 a click now and they're still surviving.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_00: Same business.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, so I I don't know where I'm going with this.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_00: I think what I'm saying is that if the Gating's good, like the iron's hot, they should keep attacking it.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_01: Well, yeah, and and even two dollars and fifty cents a click is not that bad because that's what for ten clicks, yeah, twenty two fifty.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_01: And and say you have an offer that is a thousand dollars, yes, and you get one sale for every ten clicks.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, heck, I'd pay a hundred dollars to make a thousand.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_01: For sure.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, for sure.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_00: That's exact math we're talking about.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_00: Like people are not looking into people, are kind of putting that in the background.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_00: And I think if anyone's listening, that's the that's the number.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_00: And they have to face reality because sometimes their offer is like$49.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_00: And it takes 10 clicks to buy one, and they're not seeing that.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_00: They're saying, oh, it should be okay.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_00: No, it's never gonna be okay.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_00: Doesn't matter who you hire to manage it, doesn't matter how much money you spend a month or how much algorithm favors you or the machine learning or whatever, your offer is never gonna work for ads.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_01: And and the ad strategy that I was using when I was running it, I was running ads to a$7 product.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, nice.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_01: But I also had an order bump and an upsell.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_01: And then that put them into a funnel for a$1,000 program.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, yeah, that works.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I I'm familiar with that.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_00: But to answer your question, like, should they go run ads into free or paid?
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_00: Nowadays, I will say in the last two years, as ChatGPT and AI got more popular, uh, the reciprocity about, you know, giving a freebie and maybe they'll do something with it or whatever, that's gone less and less now.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_00: So if people are not pulling out the credit card or even just a dollar thing, or even just like signing up something, it's harder to get them back on email lists and getting them to engage now.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_00: So I would say go straight to paid.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_01: So perfect.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_01: Perfect.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_01: Now let's talk analytics, tracking attribution, you know, the understanding of the numbers.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_01: I know for a lot of a lot of my listeners who are particularly artsy and in the art space, yeah.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_01: The numbers are something that just overwhelms them.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_01: So what is an what is like the number one thing they need to be tracking?
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_00: There's one number that makes ads well go around, that's cost per conversion.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_00: So cost per conversion is like you have to first, you don't have to start ads here.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_00: You can just theoretically do some spreadsheeting and work out what is the max cost per conversion you can afford.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_00: Like, say, just say, for example, can we use your$7 offer as example?
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_00: And then just let's just say we play that out and say there's a certain amount of people that did sign up to the$1,000 offer, and then certain amount of people did go into your email list and eventually sign up to the$1,000 offer.
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_00: Then you can reverse engineer you can reverse engineer that and work out how much you can pay for that$7 lead, which I think is probably about$13 or$14, if I'm doing my quick math inside my head.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_00: So you you lose about$7 on a sale, right?
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_00: On a lead capture.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_00: But then certain amount of people will compensate for that.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_00: So that's that's a number that your audience has to pay attention to.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_00: What is the first cost per conversion they can afford?
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_00: And and if if they have to give me a code to work out together, that's no problem.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_00: I can help them.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_00: It's very, very quick for me.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_01: Gotcha.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and and I'll say when I was when I was doing the ad experiment with the$7 offer, I can count on one hand how many people only spent$7.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_01: Most of them ended up spending either$29 or$49 before they even got entered into the funnel because the upselling themselves.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_00: Because you've probably done a good job there on the on on you know what I mean?
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_00: Like on stacking the offer.
• 26:27
  unknown: Yeah.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_00: Show them, like, hey, you know, if you can get get a get a bit more, get a bit extra help if you spend this much.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_01: Wonderful.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_01: Wonderful.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_01: What are some of the biggest rabbit holes or technical distractions that you see ball small business owners make?
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_01: And what should they avoid when they're creating their first campaigns?
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I think that you have really good questions, by the way.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_00: It feels, yeah.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_00: So I've been on many shows, and this is this is the first one that's asked a lot of the super relevant questions for their audience.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I'm happy to that uh I'm I'm glad that I have answers for all of them.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_00: Uh because I've been the game for so long.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um the one that people should uh get themselves away from is the the audience targeting.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_00: They have to stop thinking about like, oh, I'm gonna target people who's into violins.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_00: 2020, 20 uh 17, 2018, you could do that pretty accurately because Facebook was really uh like you know uh allowing that to happen.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_00: They were collecting certain type of data and then on selling it, right?
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_00: Like they still do, as in terms of ads, but that they're not allowed to do that anymore.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_00: So when you're talking about um targeting, it's gonna be really broad.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_00: It's gonna be age, gender, location.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_00: They are the ones that are geo, like still pretty accurate because they have to put in their real IDs when they create a meta account.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_00: So age is too good, gender's too good, and geolocation, like say Tennessee or California, that's the ones that and then your creative is the targeting, meaning at the very beginning of your video or ad copy, you call the people out.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_00: He goes, hey, like violins?
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_00: I have something for you.
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_00: And that's your because Facebook knows the people who likes violins because they're watching violin videos, right?
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_00: And they are talking about violin because Facebook is on your phone and listens to you.
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_00: And then what happens is that they'll put all those people, they'll put a tag on these people, but you're you can't you can't target them.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_00: You can only talk about them and then Facebook goes, oh, like this ad, they will listen to your ad and they'll read your interface of the ad.
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_00: They say, let's match these guys together.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_00: And then that's how you get targeting.
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_00: But don't focus too much on manual targeting.
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_00: That's a trap.
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_01: That makes total sense, especially even from my SEO background in that SEO perspective, you know, popping, making sure those keywords are in your your copy that you're you're scripted out.
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_00: For sure.
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_01: Love that.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_01: That's that's a new take that I hadn't thought about before.
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_00: Because there's because of the bro science, right?
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_00: Like people are selling courses, they have to come up with a nuance to get people to, you know, buy it.
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_00: And the easiest nuance to come up with is like, oh, I've got to have some secret targeting for you.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_00: Well, that's not true.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_00: That hasn't been true for a long time.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_00: But if they don't say if they tell them, go it's it's really easy, and you just have to be there an hour a day to monitor the ads, right?
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_00: Well, that they they're already giving up the secret.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_00: So why do I have to buy the course anymore?
• 29:47
  unknown: Right?
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_00: But if you go, oh, I'll show you how to do the secret targeting and you have to put four ads per ad there and do that.
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_00: And now people are overly focused on that, which has nothing to do with performance.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely nothing to do with performance since 2018.
• 30:02
  unknown: Yeah.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, because I I was led to believe the same thing.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_01: You've got to nail down your targeting, you've got to Yeah.
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I mean, people people still live and die by it.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_00: But from my experience, from 8 million, 10 million biggest businesses, no, it doesn't.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_00: I think you they have to understand it at avatar and speak to the actual problems that they're having.
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_00: 100%.
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_00: Like you don't just spray and pray.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_00: You don't do that, right?
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_00: You don't just go, hey, I have a course, you know, it's gonna be great.
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_00: Jump like, no, you have to speak to pain point.
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_00: You go, have you tried this and it hasn't worked?
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_00: They said, oh, wait, hold on, that's me.
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_00: And then continue listening, continue listening.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_00: Then they go, then the landing page matches everything that you were saying on the ad, and they kind of look the same.
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_00: Like they said, oh, this person looks and feels like me.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_00: And another one that your audience should get is testimonials because that's hard to replicate.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_00: So the proof comes in at the end of the landing page, they go, Oh, I'm in.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_00: So all of these things matter so much more than whether you're putting four ads per ad set or six ads per ad set.
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_00: Like, if no one wants your stuff, is it gonna really gonna matter how many ads you have per ad set?
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_00: Do you know what I mean?
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_00: Like, is that gonna is that gonna change anything now?
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_00: Like you added two more ads.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_00: They never want anything before that.
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_00: How's it gonna change now?
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_01: You're you're not wrong.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_01: You're not wrong.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_00: I have a theory behind why why that is as well, because it's um it distracts them from the real problem.
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_00: I think.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_00: I think as soon as as long as they are flicking things on and off and they are reading about the stuff and debating with each other, they're not real doing the real work, which is uh improving your offer, you know, investing money on the website and the landing page and the web copy and avatars, and maybe facing with the fact that their competitors uh outdone them with a better offer.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_00: They need to restructure the whole thing.
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_00: So it's better, easier to just play around in the area, you know, of not doing real work.
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_00: That's what I think.
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_01: And it's all it's always better if it's somebody else's fault.
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_01: So if you can blame the ads, then it's the ads' fault.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_01: It's not me.
• 32:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, exactly.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_00: So I'll cut you off before, but I wanted to say that last bit to cap off the point.
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_01: Oh no, I love it.
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_01: I love it.
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_01: Now, what would you say to the entrepreneur out there who knows they need ads, but they're terrified because their budget is limited and they want to make the most of their investment.
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, ads is um, ads are not something that you can dabble in and out.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_00: Because I feel like this is my personal take, okay?
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_00: And I and I I'm okay with, you know, um other people against it.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_00: I think ads you have to run it for a while and just like treat it as if it's um, even though you're solopreneur, you probably have to treat it like it's a big business where they have a quarterly budget.
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_00: You say we're doing this now, right?
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_00: We're gonna put the$10,000 in the next, say, four months, and we're doing ads.
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_00: And on the other side of that, we're gonna learn a lot of lessons.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_00: We're gonna learn a lot of things that we did right and we did wrong, and then we're gonna attack.
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_00: Like then we're gonna decide whether we're gonna attack again or not after the four months is finished, right?
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_00: And and from there, I I I guarantee you, they're gonna, if they they approach it this way, they're not gonna look at the end of the four months and go, oh man, 10,000 down the drain.
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_00: That's that's not that's not I think they will learn a lot about their business, about themselves.
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_00: I think they even might even, if they're doing videos, they even might even find their voice.
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I used to think that I can do good scripted.
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_00: I I bought a teleprompter at everything.
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_00: You're right, until I started doing it, I said, man, it doesn't even sound like me.
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_00: And then, yeah, so like that's a valuable lesson to learn.
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_00: Like, that's not my style, you know?
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_00: And they're gonna learn a lot a lot of things about themselves as well.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_00: So to the answer is um, I don't think they should be afraid.
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_00: I think they should spend uh just a little bit of time learning the numbers behind it.
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_00: They don't have to buy a course if they don't want to buy a course, and just like talk to someone like a coach or or um even someone who's uh in the industry who's doing it.
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_00: Just like uh familiarize themselves with a bit more.
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know what what's that term when you kind of like get in the environment and you kind of like acquaint yourself with the it's not as scary anymore.
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_01: The experience makes things less frightening.
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, like even like go onto the battleground, you know, just hang around there for a while and see what happens, click some buttons, and it's not as bad because they make it really easy for you.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I love that.
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_01: So if if any of my listeners want to work with you or want to learn more about it, where can they find you?
• 34:47
  SPEAKER_00: They can just go to my website and try out my calculators if they like it.
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_00: There's videos there, there are blogs, things I'm writing about.
• 34:53
  SPEAKER_00: Uh so diglies.com.au.
• 34:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um I'm also on LinkedIn, uh, quite active on LinkedIn.
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_00: So um I'm posting stuff on podcasts, podcasts I'm doing, guesting, and things like that.
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and there's this way to get familiarized themselves with my offerings, I guess.
• 35:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 35:11
  SPEAKER_01: Gotcha.
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_01: Great.
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_01: Well, thank you so much for coming on the show.
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_01: This has been so unbelievably helpful and informative.
• 35:19
  SPEAKER_01: So if you're out there and you've been thinking about ads, it's time to commit.
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_01: It's a great way to bring in consistent earnings, but remember to only make it a pillar of your marketing plan.
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_01: And until next time, keep planning like a boss.